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The AIH Transcript For July 23, 2021

[hosts]Susan Bonner, Chris Howden[/hosts]

SUSAN BONNER: Hi, I'm Susan Bonner, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[music: theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

SB: A lot more than a drop in the bucket. Amid the California drought, officials are seeing seeing record numbers of water thefts -- and our guest explains what's involved in tracking down those responsible for the crime spray.

CH: Let the games be grim. Our guest isn't surprised that a major video game company has been accused of a pervasive "frat boy" culture — but hopes a new lawsuit will change the culture.

SB: The lack of truth hurts. The top doctor for an Ontario health unit says people need to stop lying to contact tracers in the region — or he may subject them to some pretty steep fines.

CH: Spears of influence. Britney Spears's conservatorship case has inspired new legislation in Washington DC — and one of the co-sponsors explains how the law would protect Americans from exploitation.

SB: It's absolutely gorgeous, but pretty tacky... to the touch, I mean. Because otherwise, the Canadian winner of this year's prize for the best prom tuxedo made of duct tape really stuck to his vision.

CH: And... putting a fly on the horse to keep flies off the horse. When insects wouldn't leave his horse’s wound alone, his owner took the matter of protecting his legs into her own hands — and made him a very fetching pair of jeans.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Friday edition. Radio that suggests when it comes to horse jeans, on the steed is the best policy.

[music: theme]

Part 1: California Water Thefts, Grey Bruce Contact Tracing Lying, Horse In Jeans

California Water Thefts

Guest: John Nores

CH: California's drought has launched a crime wave. As if the lost crops and wildfires weren't enough, officials now say they're seeing record numbers of water thefts. Water is being taken from anywhere thieves can find it -- from nature preserves to firefighting supplies. It's hard to know who all the culprits are. But John Nores says he's apprehended a few. Lieutenant Nores is the former head of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife marijuana enforcement team. We reached him in Gilroy, California.

SB: Lieutenant Norris, who are the water thieves you and your team are targeting?

JOHN NORES: Yes, Susan, what... what our marijuana enforcement team in California deals with, and especially the guys that are operational now, because I retired from that team a few years ago and still get the opportunity to train with them and see them doing more of the same good missions we did, you know, up until I retired in 2018. But essentially, this team deals with trespass, marijuana, illegal grow sites all around the state of California, both on private and public land. Ninety per cent of those criminals that we're running across are cartel members, actually foreign nationals here illegally that are part of cartel cells and organized crime groups out of Mexico. And they are primarily the biggest culprit for stealing California's pristine water sources and other states as well. Because this problem is not isolated to California, it's spread out throughout the entire U.S.

SB: How much water are we talking about, and what kind of lengths are they going to... to get at this water?

JN: Well, I can... a good stat that's kind of a mind-blowing stat is when we started the team in 2013, up until I retired at the very end of 2018, roughly a five, five-and-a-half, six-year period. We calculated that of the just the grows we handled and the operations and illegal cultivation farms that we eradicated and did some arrest missions and environmental reclamation on, 12 billion, that's a "B", not an "M", but 12 billion gallons of water conservative estimate were stolen by those growers in those illegal grow operations before we got to the dams before we got to the water diversions and we're able to restore that water flow and stop that water from being stolen. Susan, to put that in perspective, had we not eradicated those grows, had they never been detected by law enforcement or, you know, wildlife enforcement, that amount would have been doubled of 24-plus billion gallons of water. At that time, those were the heydays of the last California drought we were in. It was the worst drought California had had in over a century. And now in 2021, and here in California now dealing and working with my team-mates, and looking at the water impacts they're dealing with as we go into another drought here and are in another drought here in California, it's very alarming to see the same criminals stealing very much needed water that's in very, very low supply.

SB: So what accounts for the... the increase in theft this year?

JN: There's just so much money in the black market, and there's so much money if you, you know, do it illegally, and you stay off the government oversight radar. But you need a lot of water to do that. On average, an outdoor cannabis plant through a California summer can take anywhere between eight to nine, all the way up to 12, 13, 14 gallons of water per day of all the days that plant is out there before it's harvested. We're talking a 45 to 90-day window on the average, depending on the strain of cannabis, of how much water each of those plants are stealing. So when you start to add up 4,000 to 5,000 to 6,000 on average, illegal marijuana plants in a cartel trespass grow operation. And we know that every one of those plants is stealing approximately 10 gallons of water per day for a 90-day-plus cycle. We're talking about millions of water… millions of gallons of water being stolen just on one grow site. But we know we have thousands of them across the state of California and thousands more peppered in the 25 to 27 other states in the U.S. that have it to a less severe degree than we do here in... in the Golden State.

SB: And all of this is happening while the state is facing a severe drought.

JN: It absolutely is. And Susan, it's kind of deja vu, I'm, you know, seeing my team-mates and talking about how crazy the missions have been this summer so far. And it's just... it's almost like looking in a mirror and going back in time to 2015, 2016, when we were seeing... seeing the peak drought impacts last time in California. And that wasn't that many years ago. It's... unfortunately, we're revising it far too early. That was a rough time. We actually had Northern California communities and drinking water sources so close to not having running water for drinking, for bathing, because there was so much water being stolen by illegal cannabis farmers. And specifically, they were the drug trafficking organizations, the cartel element out of Mexico operating all within California.

SB: One of the arguments in the decades' long debate about legalizing marijuana was that it would cut down on this organized crime. Is enough being done to educate people about what is still happening on that front?

JN: Well, that's a really good question. And this is a problem that persists. And, you know, we... a lot of voters thought that when we regulated recreational cannabis under Proposition 64 here in California not too many years ago, that this problem would go away. And unfortunately, it hasn't. It's actually increased the black market because there have not been enough incentives to come down hard on the type of trespass growth criminal that we fight on the marijuana enforcement front primarily. So much enforcement and regulation is put on private land growers, appropriately so, to make sure it's done correctly. And the legitimate cannabis market is doing things by the book. But the other issue is there's less pressure on the cartels now out in the wild lands because cannabis enforcement has gotten so much more necessary on private land as well. And also, because states are regulating cannabis in different ways, and with taxation and permit fees and inspection fees and permits needed, some of the fees for these... these cannabis grows... and this doesn't justify the action by any means. But some of these fees are just pushing more and more growers back into the black market even deeper. So they continue to have a cash business, not pay taxes, be off of government's radar, not inspected. And that's just opening up the door for a large black market that is not limited to the West Coast. It's nationwide.

SB: Lieutenant, thank you very much.

JN: Thanks so much for having me. And thanks for... thanks for helping spread the message, Susan. I really appreciate it.

CH: Lieutenant John Nores is the former head of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife marijuana enforcement team. We reached him in Gilroy, California.

[music: Ambient]

Grey Bruce Contact Tracing Lying

Guest: Dr. Ian Arra

CH: Ontario's Grey-Bruce Health Unit -- northwest of Toronto on Georgian Bay -- has a problem. It's a COVID problem. But it's also an honesty problem. Public health officials there recently declared the region a Delta variant hotspot. And now, its medical officer of health says too many of its residents are lying to contact tracers. He says that has contributed to an active infection rate that's more than three times the provincial average. We reached Dr. Ian Arra in Owen Sound, Ontario.

SB: Dr. Arra, what kind of stories have contact tracers in the Grey Bruce Health Unit been told?

IAN ARRA: Grey Bruce's case and contact tracing management system has performed in a robust way for the past 16 months. However, in the recent times with Delta variant, coupled with fatigue, we've seen that there is increased percentage of our clients that have been intentional about withholding information that's essential for the investigation. And that should explain the protocols that we use in case and contact management allow us to cross-examine and match information from different sources. And universally, almost universally, we go back and find if a person withheld information, it will be evident. And it is disheartening to see it happening. It is inappropriate to not participate in a formal investigation any day of the year, let alone in the pandemic. And maybe making a deterrent for other people and laying charges to certain individuals has been warranted.

SB: You're using very polite language, non-compliance and withholding information. But can you tell us what are some of the things that people are lying about?

IA: For example, a person attending a party spending time with a number of people that they know, and... and they discount part of that information, whether they said, you know, I didn't go to the party or I spent some time with two people. And down the road, when you identify cases, who would circle back and say, well, I spent time with that person. That's a clear example where that information had it been made available. A person being forthright with that information would have prevented the transmission to their family or to their loved ones. It specifically becomes a sad story if... if the chain of transmission leads to a person who's an older individual or a vulnerable for... for having severe complications with COVID.

SB: You mentioned penalties for people who are not forthcoming, not telling you the truth about what they've experienced, where they've been. What kinds of consequences could people face for lying to contact tracers?

IA: The Health Protection and Promotion Act in Ontario is as a… a beautiful document. And it allows public health and the medical officer of health office to have authority and power that is needed in a certain situation. For any person not following an order from the medical officer of health, the penalty upon conviction could be up to 5,000 dollars per day retroactively from the day the order was applied. So a person who might withhold information for five days. You do the math, and it could be up to 25,000 dollars upon conviction.

SB: And you're prepared to go that route?

IA: I do believe, and I practiCe according to the principle of least intrusive, any time education does the job, there's no need for warning or order. But in this case, it is warranted to throw the book at a very few people who willingly contest the process and potentially risk the life of others. And hopefully that will be a deterrent for certain individuals down the road to protect the public.

SB: When you explain to people why you need this information, and they still don't tell the truth about it, why do you think they don't want to tell your staff the truth?

IA: Well, in some cases, there are reasons for not knowing the information. Somebody had a few too many, and they couldn't remember who they spent time with, or there are no people in the party. But there are certain incidents where the person knew the other people very well but didn't provide that information. Regardless, at the end of the day, information that's part of a formal investigation can save lives. And all of us need to put this information forward. At the end of the day, they are our patients. We support them as patients. And there is no penalty for a person to have acquired the disease. It becomes problematic when intentionally some people hold this information back.

SB: Grey-Bruce is contending with an uptick in cases. And it's... it actually means that the infection rate in your region is about three times the provincial average. Is this a fourth wave?

IA: Well, to describe it as a wave, it needs to meet certain criteria provincially. And I don't know if this meets that because we usually have a baseline less than five per day. And we've maintained that throughout the whole 16 months between the waves. We... in the recent days, we've seen this baseline increase from less than five per day to around 20. So it is, yes, increase of threefold or fourfold. However, for the last four days, I'm cautiously optimistic that this number went down to around an average of 10. And nevertheless, any case that's preventable, any deaths that's preventable, is our duty to actually all of us to bring it down to zero and prevent it. Because the Delta variant herd immunity is... is different. This is a different pathogen from the other variants. And the application, the practical experience with using the same resources for case management that can tame the previous strains, is barely keeping the lid on this one. It will keep coming back unless we have enough vaccines. And as we go into the fall season, it would be very problematic if our vaccine coverage is not close to the target set by the province, which is around 90 per cent. An ambitious target, but it is a necessary one.

SB: Dr. Arra, thank you very much.

IA: Thank you for having me.

CH: Dr. Ian Arra is the medical officer of health for Ontario's Grey-Bruce Public Health Unit. We reached him in Owen Sound.

[music: bright jazz]

Horse In Jeans

Guests: Juliana Santiago, Ben Voytas

CH: The problem was gross. But the solution was in-jean-ious. Because it involved putting a horse in jeans. Winston the horse had a wound on one of his front legs that was bothering him. And that bothered his owner Juliana. So she fashioned a uniquely fashionable solution, which her husband, Ben, very wisely posted online. Because we didn't know how much we needed to see a horse wearing jeans until we saw one. We reached Juliana Santiago and Ben Voytas in Denver, Colorado.

SB: Juliana, if I can start with you, how is Winston the horse doing today?

JULIANA SANTIAGO: He's doing all right. Still trying to get that wound to heal, but he's happy as ever.

[chuckle]

SB: What happened to his... his leg?

JS: He is just a very playful horse and gets hurt in the pasture often. Who knows how. And it was just a wound on his leg that we're just trying to get to heal, so.

SB: And where did the idea to put Winston in jeans come from?

JS: So we were wrapping the wound using very different medicines and stuff just to try to keep the flies away from it. Nothing was really helping. So the barn manager and I kind of came up with that idea to see if it would help. And he loved it, and it kept the flies off. So it worked really well!

SB: And now, Ben, you are the... are the one who... who quite rightly realized that the world really needed to see a horse in jeans. Can you describe the look?

BEN VOYTAS: Well, he... so she fashioned the... the… cut the jeans, so it's only the leg. And then attached basically a bungee cord strap which is wrapped around, so it doesn't hurt his back. And put clips on the ends of the straps [JS chuckles] and... and clips them to the belt loops of the jean pant legs. And she bends down, and he listens to her and flips on the jeans and straps it over the back of them and puts on the other one.

SB: [laughing] He's got a protocol for putting on his jeans?

JS: He does! [JS and BV chuckle]

BV: When she sent me the picture of him, I'm like, oh, I need to tweet this out immediately. And I honestly, I totally forgot about the already existing meme of how a horse wears his jeans, were they on the back or the front? And we kind of... there were all kinds of replies in the tweet of this, you know, this is how it was solved. And other people were not convinced that this was actually the front of the horse or the back of a horse. Or new, it's a different thing. It's a third option of him in suspenders, which I don't agree with any one way or another. I just think it looks awesome.

SB: What was it like the first time you put the jeans on Winston?

JS: He definitely was a little confused, but I think is just happy to not be stomping around because of the flies, so he just took to him very quickly.

SB: Are they kind of like a pair of chaps then?

JS: They're similar, yes. [laughing]

BV: That's another thing we got a lot of in the replies of the tweet were, you know, a horse wearing jean chaps. And we need Juliana to get some jean riding pants now, and all this stuff.

JS: To match him. [laughing]

BV: To match him, which I can probably agree with a little bit.

SB: Have you considered going with a variety of jeans, skinny, bootleg, wide-cut?

BV: Well, I think they'd actually be hoof-cut, [JS laughs] but we've thought about it. But we're just kind of focussed on some other things right now. And we just think we need... the world needed to see a cute horse in some jeans.

SB: Has he been wearing these jeans non-stop for a week now?

JS: He wears them during the day when he's in a stall, and then we take them off at night, so he doesn't get all tangled up in them when we're not there.

SB: So when you approach him every morning to help him get dressed, what… [SB and BV chuckling] how does he greet you? [JS chuckles] What's his reaction?

JS: He's so happy to see me. He gets mint, and then he just stands there while I put them on, and he's good to go. [chuckling]

SB: Ben, tell me more about the reactions that you've been getting to your... your posted image of Winston in his jeans.

BV: Yeah, it's... it's been crazy. I posted it on Sunday evening, Sunday afternoon. And the first couple replies were just some friends. I don't have a big social media following at all, but they were just some friends commenting, saying, why has this not gone viral and all this stuff? And I had no intention of it going viral. But by Monday morning, we had a few retweets that... from people that have a lot of followers. And by midday Monday, there were thousands of retweets and thousands of likes on it. And it just keeps growing. It's still growing now today.

SB: So what have you got in mind next?

BV: [BV and JS laughing] I'm not sure. We've got something in the works. We do have a video of him walking around because I think some folks in the replies thought it was, you know, he didn't like it, and he couldn't move around in them. But we're about to blow people's minds when I post a video of him walking around in the jeans. [laughing]

SB: OK, you got to blow our minds now and describe what that walk looks like?

BV: [JS laughs] Well, it's more of a strut. [laughing] He's a retired racehorse, so he's... he's got to show off. And especially when he's wearing something as nice as Jeans. He definitely shows them off in the video.

SB: So you're convinced that he... he's putting on a show with his outfit?

BV: It sure looks like it. [laughing] We can let people be the judge.

SB: Do the jeans have any stretch in them?

JS: A little bit, yeah. But they're... it's surprising how skinny horses' legs are when you put human genes on them. They fit very well. [laughing]

SB: [chuckling] What about holes in the knees? Any rips?

JS: [chuckling] Not so far.

BV: He's a little older, so he's... he's out of that fad. [JS chuckles] I did get some replies in the tweet that people need to see him in a hat. [JS laughs] So if we come across a hat that we can put on him, and he likes it, which I'm assuming he will, then we could probably make that happen, too.

SB: So how... let's get back to the... what started all of this, the wound on his leg, is it... is it healing to the point where Winston's about to lose his jeans?

JS: Unfortunately, well, fortunately, and unfortunately, I think it is hopefully healing up, so we don't have to have him wear them anymore, but we'll still keep them and put them on every once in a while. [chuckling] Like I said, he's really playful, and I'm sure it will happen again sometime, so. [laughing]

SB: Well, I'm sure the world is holding its breath waiting for this video of Winston. [JS and BV laugh] It's been good to talk to you both. Thank you very much.

JS: Of course!

BV: Absolutely!

SB: Bye-bye.

BV: See ya!

CH: Juliana Santiago, Ben Voytas, and their horse Winston are from Nashville, Tennessee. We reached the humans today in Denver, Colorado. To see photos of Winston in his jeans, and if you haven't, please see them, visit our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: Instrumental]

Britain Map Nicknames

CH: The national mapping agency for Great Britain is about to get a little more familiar with the U.K.'s coastal areas. I mean, they already knew there were coastal areas, what with England being an island. But familiar in the sense of a closer, more casual kind of relationship. Official maps will now refer to the bays, points, inlets, rocks, et cetera as the locals do -- by their nicknames. Like Stinky Bay, Crazy Mary's Hole or Nuncle Dicks. Well, the change is an obvious win for lovers of evocative place names. But it's also a big win for coastal rescuers. Because -- until now -- you wouldn't find Stinky Bay, Crazy Mary's Hole, or Nuncle Dicks on any map. And that meant that emergency responders had a harder time finding people who were calling for help, but didn't know the formal "map name" or coordinates of their location. Which left all concerned all quite concerned. Because whether you're in trouble in Stinky Bay or one of the other 7,500 coastal places with new official nicknames -- when you have to call the coast guard you want them to be able to find you. And fast. Now, you just have to know what the locals call the place where you're stuck. And if you know that, well, that's your ace in Crazy Mary's Hole.

[music: instrumental]

Part 2: Activision Allegations, Britney Spears Bill

Activision Allegations

Guest: Ashley Parrish

CH: Activision Blizzard is the company behind some of the most popular video games of all time. "World of Warcraft", "Call of Duty", and "Candy Crush" among them. But the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing says the company isn't all fantasy and multi-coloured gumdrops. Far from it. In a lawsuit filed this week, the department says there is a "pervasive 'frat boy' culture" in the company" -- where female employees are sexually harassed and often passed over for work. The allegations stem from a two-year investigation. Ashley Parrish is a staff writer at the gaming publication Kotaku. We reached her in Akron, Ohio.

SB: Ms. Parrish, were you at all surprised by these allegations against Activision Blizzard?

ASHLEY PARRISH: You know, I really wish I could say I was. But there... recently, there's been a lot of reports coming out of some of the biggest triple-A studios in the gaming industry with these kinds of similar accusations. We saw the same thing happen to Riot, which is the developer of "League of Legends". You saw the same thing out of Ubisoft, which makes the popular "Assassin's Creed" series. So seeing something like this come out of Activision Blizzard, which is probably one of the biggest video game studios on the planet, is not surprising at all with these kinds of big developers that encompass, like, multiple studios across the world. It's usually a matter of when not if.

SB: And this lawsuit spells out a pervasive frat-boy culture in the company. What allegations stood out for you?

AP: So most of the allegations that are in the complaint are your typical stuff that you would expect in any kind of, like, sexual assault lawsuit. There are complaints of men who are engaged in evaluating women's bodies, or men who are held to a lesser standard than their female counterparts. Like they can get away with playing, you know, video games while women are working. There was an allegation about a cube crawl, where they, you know, men would drink, and they would go from, you know, cubicle to cubicle within the office and, you know, [laughing] engage in whatever behaviour that happens when a bunch of people get together drinking alcohol. Some of the allegations that stood out to me was there was an account of an African-American woman who was working for Blizzard who had to give an account of what she would do with her time off. And she had to write, like, a one-page paper saying what... you know, what this time off was for. At the same time, like, her men or her white co-workers were not required to do something like this. And another one of the allegations that seems to be, like, one of the more egregious ones is there was a person named who was the creative director of the "World of Warcraft" franchise, whose name is Alex Afrasiab. He was so notorious with his behaviour that his office was nicknamed "The Cosby Suite" after Bill Cosby, who was unfortunately recently let go after he was accused and convicted of rape. So, you know, it's just... it's pervasive. It's bad. It's really disturbing things that are coming out of this lawsuit.

SB: Does it surprise you that the lawsuit stipulates that women of colour were particularly vulnerable targets?

AP: Not really. I mean, gaming has a problem with women of colour overall. Blizzard has shown that it, too, has problems with women, especially Black women. I am a Black woman myself, and I've been playing Blizzard games for a very long time. And I could probably count on my hand the number of Black women characters that exist across all of Blizzard's franchises. So the fact that they treat

African-American women in this way is, like, not surprising at all, honestly, which is just sad to say.

SB: In a statement, a spokesperson for Activision Blizzard says there's no place in the company for sexual misconduct or harassment of any kind. And it says the company investigates all claims. They also say the lawsuit, quote, includes distorted and, in many cases, false descriptions of Blizzard's past. What do you make of that?

AP: It's really interesting to hear them say this because it's like you got to... you can't have it both ways. Like, is this... is this false or distorted? Is this the Blizzard... or is this the Blizzard of the past? Like, if this is the Blizzard of the past, then that kind of lends a kernel of truth to some of the allegations that are coming out, right? So, you know, of course, any company is going to say, well, that's not who we are, or we've made steps to change, so I kind of take it with a grain of salt. But I'm seeing a lot of former employees at Blizzard coming out on social media and saying, yeah, this is... this is my experience.

SB: And a lot of them are women.

AP: A lot of... yeah, a lot of them are women. Yeah. Yeah.

SB: Many people listening to this discussion might be, as... as you describe yourself to be, not at all that surprised by these revelations. Film and TV, music, they've all seen stories like this as well about a culture that was problematic. Is it fair to say the video game industry has a bigger problem than other entertainment industries?

AP: I... I don't want to say yes. I also don't want to say no because video game, you know, it's for... compared to like movie or the music industry is a lot younger. So… and the video game culture kind of allows this kind of behaviour to be... to pervade it. Like, I'm... I'm a woman of colour. I'm a Black woman. When I play, you know, Blizzard games, I don't get on the voice chat because I don't want people to make fun of me for being a woman. Like that... this kind of behaviour that pervades how people play --

SB: That would happen to you if you were --

AP: Oh yeah! [chuckling] Like if you talk to any Black person who plays video games, like, in a in a group setting like, you know, team-based games, there are... you will find a lot of stories of people who will say, like, I won't turn on my mic because I don't want people to hurl slurs at me because I'm Black. Or they don't want to hurl, like, misogynistic swirl... slurs, like get in the kitchen, you know, that kind of stuff. That's just like standard. That's a standard story. So because this is, like, the culture that has been allowed to, you know, permeate through the video game industry in a way that maybe not the movie industry or the music industry has, it kind of lends itself to seeing this kind of behaviour, you know, crop up at the places where these games are made.

SB: If the #MeToo movement changed things or began to change things in the movie industry, could these kinds of discussions and lawsuits change things in the gaming industry?

AP: Absolutely. We're seeing it happen right now in real-time. I mean, there are gaming outlets that are saying we're not going to cover Activision Blizzard games anymore until real change is made. And Activision Blizzard games, as I've discussed earlier, are some of the biggest games on the planet when they're released. That's... that's "Call of Duty". That's "World of Warcraft". These are the biggest releases of the year. And that... that movement, that... that drive to, like, deny these people the money that keeps them going could absolutely have an impact on their bottom line, which could enforce real change.

SB: Ms. Parrish, thank you very much.

AP: Thank you for having me so much.

SB: Goodbye.

AP: Bye.

CH: Ashley Parrish is a staff writer at Kotaku. She was in Akron, Ohio.

[music: that Corner Gas song]

NL Sexual Assault Stopping

CH: When Gabrielle Fudge comes off her late shift at the bar and walks home, she sees all sorts of things. But what she saw on Saturday will stay with her for a long time. It was 4:00 a.m. in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador when Ms. Fudge and her partner James spotted what appeared to be a couple in a tight embrace. But when Ms. Fudge got closer, it was clear something wasn't right. And her intervention that morning may have prevented a sexual assault. Here's Gabrielle Fudge telling her story to CBC today.

SOUNDCLIP

GABRIELLE FUDGE: Well, thankfully, on New Gower Street, it was quiet. There was just the odd couple or group walking home as we were. And it was there near the Mile One Centre that we happened to meet that young lady who really just looked around my age. But the man, he was tall. He definitely had a foot on me. He was about six, maybe just below six-five feet. And he was cuddling her. But as we got closer, it was apparent he was holding her very tightly to him by her waist. She was staring at me, evidently, so very, very intently, staring me in the eyes. And I... and she said so, so sternly, get this man away from me. And we just stopped in our tracks. I jogged up to her, and I just pretended I knew her. I grabbed her by the arm, and I just said, oh my God, it's you! And just went with that. And she hugged into to me. I created distance with that moment. We took a step away from him, and we just played on with it. She was like, oh, I'm so glad to see you. What a coincidence. And I mean, she was great. She... she's really the brave one here.

RAMAAJH SHARVENDIRAN: How did you know to do that in that moment?

GF: I can't say that I knew this, you know, like it's not written in the book anywhere to do this.

RS: Yeah.

GF: But it's... it is everywhere, at least for women. It's on... it's on the back of our minds. It's on the forefront of our minds when we're walking home at night. What should I do? What would I want someone else to do for me? And I knew that I did not want violence at any cost. So I thought if I appeared friendly, as if I had known her and I was a friend of hers, maybe he would back off.

RS: If you, I guess, hadn't stopped and hadn't clued in to what was going on, because, you know, at 4:00 in the morning, it's... it's easy to just kind of walk by it and not think anything of it. Especially you mentioned you were just finishing work. What I guess could have happened based on what you learned from her?

GF: I don't know what danger she could have been in, but from what she told us that night, he had been harassing her all night, refusing to leave her alone and then forcefully following her outside. From that information, I would assume, at the very least, it would have become another sexual assault case.

CH: That was Gabrielle Fudge, speaking to host Ramaajh Sharvendiran on the "St. John's Morning Show" today.

[music: folk]

Britney Spears Bill

Guest: Charlie Crist

CH: It has been a month since Britney Spears gave shocking testimony to a California court about her life under conservatorship. She's called it "abusive" and asked for a court to end it after thirteen years. And now, her case -- and the "Free Britney" movement -- have inspired legislation in Washington. This week, two lawmakers introduced the FREE Act, which looks to reform the guardianship process. Charlie Crist is a Democratic member of Congress from Florida. We reached him in St. Petersburg.

SB: Congressman Crist, how did Britney Spears' story lead you and your Republican colleague to sponsor this bill?

CHARLIE CRIST: Well, it was so, I think, devastating to hear the treatment that she was exposed to. It's just shocking. And I think that's the most disturbing part of it was the fact that she was not able to make her own health decisions, in particular about the removal of an IUD so that she would be able to bear more children. I think that was the most outrageous of all. But, you know, there was financial problems, all kind of problems.

SB: Can you just remind our listeners what is legal guardianship or conservatorship?

CC: That's where you have a situation where somebody is somehow deemed by a court to need oversight, if you will, of their life from financial decisions, you know, life decisions about where they might live, you know, across the board. So it can be called a conservatorship where an individual is appointed to make those decisions for the person the court thinks needs that help or a guardianship either. Either title. It's really the same thing.

SB: Well, Britney Spears' story has certainly put the issue in the spotlight. But just how widespread is the use of this?

CC: Sadly, I think it's very widespread. There's about, you know, one-point-three-million people that have such a legal situation, a guardianship or a conservatorship. And so it's a lot of people. And I can tell you, in Florida in particular, we are blessed to have an abundance of wonderful senior citizens that we care deeply for. But a lot of times, people that are subjected to these type of legal instruments, conservatorship or guardianship, are senior citizens.

SB: So how would your bill, if it became law, affect someone living under a conservatorship?

CC: Well, in a couple of ways, it empowers them, basically, is the short answer. And how does that do that? It does it by giving the individual who is under the guardianship or conservatorship the authority to petition a court to change it and to remove whoever the conservator or guardian is, if the court deems that that is appropriate and replace it with another public guardian.

SB: How do you, though, continue to protect the people who... who this system helps?

CC: Well, when you... when you make that petition to the court, the court has the authority to make the decision about whether or not the conservative... conservatorship or guardianship is good and in a good situation to protect the individual or not. So if... if it's born out factually that it's a good conservatorship or guardianship, then it'll remain in place, and those people will be protected.

SB: What other measures are you looking at putting in place with this bill?

CC: It also has a portion of it that addresses caseworkers. And the importance of that is assigning a caseworker to be able to review a guardianship and verify independently as it's going on whether or not it's in the best interest of the individual that the guardianship is provided for.

SB: The co-chair of the Disability and Civil Rights Clinic at Brooklyn Law School told The New York Times it would be extraordinarily helpful, that's a quote, to have legislation that says guardianship should be a last measure and that the courts should really consider other less restrictive ways of providing decision making support. How do you respond to that?

CC: It sounds very good. But you know, it has sadly been proven out. And I've seen it here in St. Petersburg, Florida, in my district, constituents of mine that are involved in a guardianship situation. One, in particular, her 93-year-old father was under a guardianship that was abusive and functioning improperly and needed to get it changed. And so what we have in the States is, you know, 50 different ways that each state looks at this with 50 different laws on the books. Our legislation would make it uniform, a standard, if you will, for the entire nation so that you have more of a balance of power, if you will, between the guardianship of the individual that is under the guardianship.

SB: So you're talking about having independent caseworkers and monitoring conflicts of interest. What sort of financial support would there be for states to put these sorts of systems in place and to continue to monitor them?

CC: Well, the bill we're sponsoring contemplates that. And it's a very good question, providing over 200 million dollars in order to help, you know, states be able to absorb this and have the resources necessary to get it done.

SB: So what hope is there that this will get the bipartisan support required in Washington and actually become law?

CC: Well, because it already has. You know, we just unveiled this on Tuesday. This being Friday, already, about 15 co-sponsors are on the bill, of course, you know, my counterpart, the Republican of South Carolina, Nancy Mace, and I'm a Democrat, you know, of Florida. And you know, what we both continue to say is that this isn't really, you know, a political issue. It's not right versus left. This truly is a right versus wrong. And we're trying to right a wrong if one exists so that people like Britney Spears aren't subjected to this kind of thing anymore.

SB: You think it would happen without a celebrity at the centre of it?

CC: I wonder about that. And, you know, you have to think, at least this is how I view it, celebrities have a certain platform by which they have an opportunity to communicate with millions of people. So it can... it can certainly be a blessing. And I think in this case it is. And I want to credit Britney Spears for her courage to share her story with the world, essentially. And so, yeah, without the celebrity, I don't think it would have the attention that it does. Without her coming forth, you know, you and I probably wouldn't be talking. You being a Canadian radio station, and myself, a lawmaker from Tampa Bay, Florida. That's how powerful it can be, and that's how positive it can be. And I think it is very positive in this case.

SB: Have you reached out to Spears at all?

CC: I have tried to, you know? And it's fine that that doesn't happen. But just to thank her candidly. And maybe she'll hear your radio interview and get the message. But I think what she's done is very courageous and very good.

SB: Congressman, thank you for your time. We appreciate it.

CC: It's my pleasure. Thank you. Have a good weekend.

SB: You too. Bye-bye.

CC: Bye now.

CH: Charlie Crist is a Democratic member of the U.S. House of Representatives. He's also the former governor of Florida and is running again in 2022. We reached him in St. Petersburg, Florida.

[music: sombre]

Duct Tape Prom Winner

CH: Ryan Bekic of LaSalle, Ontario, is one of many high school grads who didn't get to attend his prom this year. But that didn't stop him from designing his own tuxedo. And it's really something. It's black and red and white -- with removable black angel wings. It's festooned with gold roses, and comes with a top hat, and white mask. So clearly, he didn't just throw it together. In fact, he stuck it together. Mr. Bekic used 27 rolls of duct tape. The tuxedo was his entry in the Stuck at Prom scholarship contest. And his creation just won Ryan Bekic 10,000 dollars.

SOUNDCLIP

RYAN BEKIC: I've seen various runways, different fashion shows, and they've always had something a little different. And I wanted to incorporate something a little bit different, whether it was those broad shoulders I put on it or the wings. I've always loved the arts. I'm going to school for interdisciplinary arts and sciences. And I've always kind of loved costumes. Like me and my dad always worked on costumes growing up for Halloween. And I wanted to take that and elevate it a little bit and create something more modern. For the contest, it had to be a majority of duct tape. However, you could have small additions of other objects. For me, it was cardboard, string, you know, good, good building materials.

CHRIS ENSING: Basic things. How do you balance what's possible versus what's your ideal, your dream?

RB: [laughing] With the unconventional materials, you're never going to get that, you know, ideal, polished, finished. But I just put everything I had into it. I tried to make it the most, most structured thing I possibly could and most finished look I could. And that's what I went with. I think you can make anything, honestly. You know, it's... it's the limit of what you are willing to work for, I think. Like, you just have to keep pushing, keep doing trial and error and see what works.

CE: What you've done has really has been noted. Like we've seen the comments online, like we've seen people who are amazed by this. But it also has allowed you now to start planning your future in a different way. What was it like when you found out you won that scholarship?

RB: It was amazing because, you know, it's definitely gonna add me in my future towards forwarding my education. And it's just like a great step in pushing me forward into a pathway that I want to discover.

CH: That was Ryan Bekic from LaSalle, Ontario, near Windsor, speaking with CBC reporter Chris Ensing.

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July 23, 2021 Episode Transcript

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