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The AIH Transcript for July 07, 2021

Hosts: Duncan McCue and Chris Howden

Prologue

DUNCAN MCCUE: Hello, I'm Duncan McCue, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[music: theme]

CH: Tonight:

CH: Flame War. After a statue of Captain James Cook is toppled in Victoria, a nearby totem pole is set on fire -- sparking concern that there will be more damage and retaliation to come.

DMC: Hard to believe. A Toronto priest says it's disingenuous and unacceptable for the Catholic Church to say it can't raise compensation for residential school survivors, while spending millions on new buildings.

CH: Some like it not. A giant statue of Marilyn Monroe with skirt aloft returns to Palm Springs, California. Some say it shows more than anyone needs to see, but our guest hopes tourists will come see for themselves.

DMC: An obstacles course. It was never a given that the Ever Given would be released. But after 106 days, it's finally anchors away from the ship that blocked the Suez Canal.

CH: And needle in a sand stack. In Denmark, the maker of what is likely the world's tallest sand castle says he was inspired by the pandemic -- which is why it's topped with a sand child carrying an enormous sand syringe.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Wednesday edition. Radio that concludes Denmark has an impressive vac-sand-nation rate.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Haiti Assassination, Catholic Church Response, Palm Springs

DMC: Mr. Chevry, can you describe what you saw and heard last night?

RALPH CHEVRY: Well, it was more when I heard. About 1:00, I heard heavy fire. I'd never heard this before in Haiti -- even heard explosions, which we had never heard. It was sporadic. There was parts about three to five minutes, and it stopped, and it happened again. It went on for about… I would say about six, seven times. Then after that, we heard sporadic shots in certain areas. But the main shooting had stopped by then.

DMC: Was it clear to you that this was the president's home that was being attacked?

RC: Initially, it was not. Initially, I got out of bed and was kind of still hazy when we heard the shooting. It wasn't... it was not obvious. But after a while, we spoke with several people. I ended up calling some neighbours, and we got some confirmation that it was the president's house. And it was clear to us as we focussed and got our sights fixed, I guess, calibrated. We knew that it was his house.

DMC: What was your reaction when you learned that the president had been killed?

RC: Wow! Shocked! You know, this is something that we don't want to live through. It's a very difficult thing to deal with. Really kind of upset that our country has gotten to this point. It's also very frustrating that we had talked about this. I had already mentioned in certain interviews that we felt that this was the making of a Somalia. And this incident kind of corroborated or made it true, Sadly enough. I feel like we are living in Somalia now. There's no doubt it.

DMC: What you just described was an all-out gunfight. I mean, this wasn't a quiet undercover operation.

RC: No, no, no, no. No, [chuckling] it was that.

DMC: So, what does that tell you about... about these attackers and how powerful they were?

RC: Well, obviously, they were powerful. The machine guns I heard were things I'd heard in movies, almost like helicopters with those grease guns that they use. It was really, really strange to hear. I'm still kind of... I haven't slept yet. I'm kind of still getting myself… I'm gathering myself. But, yeah, it was pretty scary when we heard it. And we're also worried about what's going to happen? Because usually after these things, it's already happening. People are taking to the streets. They have looted the Port Authority, the gas stations that are getting burnt, and it's really getting out of hand now.

DMC: Let's talk a little bit about Jovenel Moise. I mean, he's been under pretty intense pressure from the opposition to resign because they argue his term is over. Do you think it was a political crisis that motivated this?

RC: Certainly, the crisis we're going through, It's…. it's really... it's more intense than just political. It's really the kind of crimes we've been having; it's really social. To me, it's an explosion. The country just exploded, every institution. The police are fractured into four different sections. Nothing works. The constitution is... is on hold. The judicial system doesn't work. So, yeah, it's a combination of all of these things. I guess something... a straw broke the camel's back. It was a political crisis. Yes, it's a general move for Jovenel to leave. It's not just the opposition. It's really a majority of people, the Church, the bar association, members of the bar association, they all feel that he should leave because the situation is getting bad. Gangs were roaming out in the streets with guns, weapons, a lot of kidnappings, killings. Just the other day, 15 people got shot in one day in an area. This is a combination of a total irresponsibility and a non-functioning system.

DMC: You mentioned the gang violence. Are there... are there other groups that would be motivated to have assassinated President Moise?

RC: Oh, yeah. Well, President Moise is not liked. Certainly, there are many groups that didn't like him. I wouldn't venture to say who because this is... it would be disingenuous for me to assume that I knew. But what I would say is that there's a lot of hatred.

DMC: What about the leadership now? I mean, the Haitian government, as you describe, was already in crisis. Prime Minister Claude Joseph said today that the security situation is under control. Do you believe him?

RC: No way! No way! That's... that's… [chuckling] that's an exaggeration, for lack of a better word. No, it's not under control. The police right now is fractured into four different parts. This is just some hot air. It's not true. That I can guarantee.

DMC: You mentioned Haiti becoming Somalia.

RC: Yes.

DMC: I mean, what... what do you mean by that?

RC: Well, no law, none of the institutions function. The country is bankrupt. The government's gone really rogue. There's no government. Gangs were showing, walking around, manifesting with their guns in the streets. The southern part of Haiti has been cut off, parts of Port-Au-Prince have been cut off. People have not been able to go to work for the past two weeks because there's a gang war. The police can't stop them. These guys come out with heavy machine guns, 20 people. It's Somalia. To me, that's what it looks like.

DMC: So what does that mean for the people of Haiti who are just trying to get by right now?

RC: What it means for us is that we feel that Haiti needs a reset. What we're going through right now has been excesses by politicians. And the whole point of view is that we all feel that there should be some sort of transition and that transition should be led by members of the civil society, people that are not that are not... that don't have their hands in, you know, in politics, people that are not too antagonistic. So we're looking for a neutral group. So this is what it is we want to promote. We need that. We need to take Haiti back to democracy because Haiti's certainly not on the road.

DMC: You say that's what Haiti needs. Are you worried this is going to get worse before it gets better?

RC: Yes, it definitely is going to get worse because the word is out. What happens is… is total chaos now. It is going to get worse. It's going to get worse. I expect it to be... it's already gotten worse. They have already started burning up gas stations. They've attacked an opposition leader. So it's going to get worse. It's going to get worse before it gets better. But I think that it's... that it's time that the international community really took a good look at Haiti and tried to assist us in trying to help us out of this situation. It really is a very difficult situation to be in.

DMC: Mr. Chevry, we'll leave it there. Thank you.

RC: Thank you very much. Thank you.

CH: Ralph Chevry is a board member of the Haiti Center for Socio-Economic Policy. He's in Port-au-Prince. And you can find more on that story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: Spanish guitar]

Catholic Church Response

Guest: Father Darren Dias

CH: The Catholic Church says it tried to raise 25 million dollars to compensate residential school survivors. It also says it couldn't meet that goal. But CBC Saskatoon reports that, since the Church made that pledge in 2005, it has spent nearly 300 million dollars on new church buildings across the country. We told you about one of those buildings last week -- a Saskatoon cathedral that cost 28 million dollars. Frank Badger talked to us about it -- he's a residential school survivor who lives close to the new building.

SOUNDCLIP

FRANK BADGER: It's so ridiculous, you know? Catholic religion is the biggest business, one of the biggest businesses in the world. It's worth about six billion dollars. And they have land... all of these that are bigger than Saskatchewan. Now, why in the world can't they come up with 25 million dollars? You know, that's so frustrating. And not only did they cause a lot of damage to the Native people, but now they're refusing to help these people like myself to get back on track.

CH: That was Frank Badger on "As It Happens". Father Darren Dias is a theology professor at the University of Toronto, and a Dominican priest. The Dominicans are a Catholic religious order. And, unlike some Catholic orders, they did not operate residential schools.

DMC: Father Dias, how does it feel to hear what Frank Badger had to say in that clip?

DARREN DIAS: It's a powerful witness, Frank's statements there. I think he's right that it is ridiculous that the situation is what it is even today. And I detect a righteous anger for what was done to him and to many others. And that there is indeed a lack of action. There's maybe a lack of words in terms of apologies, but there's certainly a lack of action on the part of those who should be taking responsibility.

DMC: Since 2005, the Catholic Church has raised four million dollars for residential school survivors. Thanks to some work by... adjacent work by CBC Saskatchewan, we've learned that in the same time span, they spent nearly 300 million dollars on new buildings and repairs. How do you square those two

figures?

DD: Yeah, it's quite jarring, isn't it? I should say that the 25 million dollars that the Catholic Church agreed to pay is actually 48 Catholic entities, so dioceses and religious communities. So it's not necessarily all the dioceses or entities across the country. And in 2015, they were released from the obligation because apparently best efforts had been made to raise those funds. Now, when you see the numbers of the amount of money that's been raised for other things like buildings, you wonder if, really, those best efforts were really made. If money can be raised for things like buildings, certainly money can be raised for people. And I think here people were ignored -- certainly those who suffered. And the responsibility to which these 48 entities agreed to take for their actions was lost.

DMC: How could they have fallen so short of their goal by only coming up with four million?

DD: The first question is, were best efforts really made? Secondly, if there is will enough to raise money for other things, I think there's probably not enough will to raise money for this. That is, to meet the responsibility, the agreed-upon amount of 25 million dollars. Some of the bishops realize that now. So in Saskatchewan, the bishops are going to restart the fundraising effort to meet this obligation. But clearly, they failed. I think that though the whole Church of Canada could, if there's enough will, have a fundraising effort -- that is from sea to sea. So even those dioceses that might not be named in the... as the Roman Catholic entities, they could collaborate and have a joint fundraising effort to raise this money. Because, as you said, money has been raised in dioceses throughout the... throughout Canada for other things. And here, there might not be a legal responsibility for some of the dioceses, but certainly, I think there's a moral responsibility.

DMC: Let me ask you that. I mean, the Dominicans, which are the Catholic religious order you're part of, never ran residential schools. But... but what responsibility do you feel as a Catholic leader to do right by residential school survivors?

DD: Yeah, I think that all Canadians and all Catholics have a responsibility to do right by residential school survivors. So it's not just the bishop's responsibility. It's also every Catholics responsibility, just like it's not just the Church's responsibility. It's also the government's responsibility. So even though I belong to an order that did not have residential schools, I don't think that means that as a Catholic community, we're not responsible for the mistakes that we have made collectively.

DMC: It's been over 15 years since that initial commitment by the Catholic Church in the Indian Residential Schools Settlement. Why are Church leaders only now starting to... to think about that responsibility?

DD: Probably the numbers that we are seeing in these graves that have been uncovered. And I say uncovered because they're not discovered. They are in the TRC's calls to action, 71 to 76. It's clear that there were these cemeteries and unmarked graves. And the calls to action asked the federal government, with the cooperation of the Church, to v investigate this. And this was, as you said, completely ignored. So I think now that they're being uncovered, and the numbers of unmarked graves, I think the numbers are so jarring that people are asking questions, and I hope they continue to ask questions. I hope when the next election comes, this should be a major issue or the single issue of the next election. I also think that the Church has lost a great deal of credibility in the wake of the sexual abuse scandal. And now this. I think the bishops can see that there is a great deal of anger, you know, in the burning of churches, which, you know, a violent act that I won't support. But... but it really shows the anger. So I think that for the Catholic Church in Canada, it's a moment to really think about whether there is any credibility left?

DMC: Last month, Ottawa's archbishop told a CBC interviewer, the Catholic Church is, quote, hurting over the news of unmarked graves. And claimed not to have known very much about residential schools until recently. So what does that kind of comment tell you about the work that the Catholic Church itself needs to do in terms of reconciliation?

DD: It's got a lot of work, especially because a good number of Indigenous people are Catholics. And I think the place to start is by listening to Indigenous communities and to Indigenous Catholics. Again, these are in the calls to action. These should be programs that have already... that are already flourishing in the country. We don't have many of them except in those places maybe where there's been an intentional effort with the Church leaders or local leadership and Indigenous communities to educate people.

DMC: In terms of the commitment to raise more money. What about a time frame? What about a target amount? Has that been set? What are your thoughts?

DD: Yep. So, for me, I don't know. But certainly, that... the 25 million that was agreed upon should be honoured, even though they were released from the obligation in 2015. There is no reason not to honour that agreement because it is an agreement. So, the starting point, I think, is to go back to the

TRC, to its calls to actions and recommendations and honour those agreements.

DMC: If you could sit down with the bishops conference, what would your message be?

DD: To read and appropriate the Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action. And to act responsibly and with integrity in what they... what they are requesting.

DMC: Father Dias, thank you very much for your time.

DD: Thank you,

CH: Father Darren Dias is a Dominican priest and professor of theology at the University of Toronto.

[music: acoustic guitar]

Palm Springs

Guest: Aftab Dada

CH: Marilyn Monroe has returned to Palm Springs. On Sunday, a controversial statue of the Hollywood icon went back up along the California city's tourist strip. It depicts the famous scene from the film "The Seven Year Itch" -- where air from a subway grate forces the smiling star to push down her rising skirt. But not everyone's a fan. The statue is eight metres tall, and it's possible to walk right under those billowing clothes. And look up. Which is why a group sued to stop the installation. But Aftab Dada sees no problem. Mr. Dada is the Chairman of PS Resorts and he led the push to put the statue up. We reached Aftab Dada in Palm Springs.

DMC: Mr. Dada, what kind of reception is this huge, huge Marilyn Monroe getting in town?

AFTAB DADA: Well, definitely, we are very pleased, but not surprised. When she was here in 2012, she absolutely generated millions and millions of dollars for publicity. And that was during the time that our economy was depressed due to the financial crisis of 2008. And the board of directors of PS Resorts felt that with the 15 months of pandemic, and 500 downtown merchants taking a huge hit economically, and knowing that we had right around the corner a brutal hot summer, it was ideal to bring her back and help our downtown merchants.

DMC: You put her, the statue, in front of Palm Springs Art Museum. Why?

AD: Well, we did not put in front of the Palm Springs Art Museum. And that's what the perception everybody has is not true. She is exactly 437.4 linear feet from the museum. And that 437 foot equates to the length of one-and-a-half football fields. And from the top of the museum, absolutely with naked eye, you cannot see any of her undergarments that some of the folks that are claiming.

DMC: So… so that was the question that I wanted to ask you. I mean, it's... it's a little hard to tell from the pictures, but people are very aware of that iconic photo with her skirt or dress up. Just how revealing is the statue?

AD: Well, absolutely not true. And once we are done with this interview, I took a shot four days ago from the top of the museum and I'll be happy to share with you.

DMC: From the top of the museum. But I'm wondering, it's very large. What if you walk under it?

AD: Well, under it, like I said, she's got her underwear. And, you know, this day and age, when you see what goes on in the Hollywood and entertainment industry, that is so common.

DMC: Which is what?

AD: I mean to say you can see the... the undergarments and stuff like that of all the people that display it. And that becomes kind of called a little sexy.

DMC: So what would you say to Liz Armstrong, for example? She's a former director of the Palm Springs Art Museum. And she said this, I'll quote, “this placement of her gigantic panty-clad rear end being the first thing you see when you come out of the museum is so disrespectful. It's such a slap in the face.” End quote. What would you say to Liz Armstrong?

AD: Absolutely untrue. They need to get their act together and... and make the right statements. They are absolutely not telling the truth. They're trying to brainwash the general public. And to add something to that, we did an independent survey by a national reputable firm. And majority of the citizens, and residents of Palm Springs, absolutely, 100 per cent support her. It’s just a small minority.

DMC: So you can't see her panty-clad rear end.

AD: Absolutely not. And like I said, as soon as we conclude this interview, I will send you a shot of that, and you can determine yourself what I sent to you.

DMC Mr. Dada. It is the #Metoo era. Marilyn Monroe is... is one of Hollywood's really tragic figures. I mean, she was a global sex object to who died simply far too young, in a haze of drugs. How do you address the concerns of residents who want to turn the page on… on treating women's bodies this way?

AD: Like I said that we did, a national firm, did an independent survey and study. And I said majority of the residents of Palm Springs support her and wants her back. And that was one of the reasons we brought her back.

DMC: Do you have a response for those who have been critical?

AD: Absolutely. You can... they can read today's Valley Voice in the Desert Sun, very beautifully and elegantly written by our lady mayor, Christy Holstege, and our councilman Kors. And... and, you know, Marilyn was a deprived orphan individual, and what she did for herself. Personally, she put herself on the map and absolutely that she did a great job. And that's why people love her. People... she brings smile to the people. And... and that's the reason PS Resorts decided to purchase her in perpetuity and bring her back to our destination.

DMC: Thank you very much for joining us.

AD: And I will go ahead and send you the shots that I took from the top of the museum few days ago.

DMC: OK, thank you for joining us.

AD: Take care. You're welcome, bye.

CH: Aftab Dada is the Chairman of PS Resorts, in Palm Springs, California. We've got more -- including that picture Mr. Dada promised to send us more than once -- on our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: horns!]

Ever Given Unmoored

CH: The vast majority of ships travel successfully from Point A to Point B. But we only remember the names of the ones that only made it to about A-and-a-half. The famous ships are the ones that experienced catastrophes. No one cares about the SS Whatever's thousands of uneventful voyages. But the third-highest-grossing movie of all time is about a boat full of rich people and Irish stereotypes crashing into an iceberg. That's why we're all so excited about the accident-prone ship the Ever Given. First, it got jammed in the Suez Canal for six days, disrupting global trade at an estimated cost of 5 billion dollars in lost revenue a day. And then it was impounded for three months -- in an aptly-named body of water called "Great Bitter Lake". While Egyptian authorities demanded compensation for the blockage of the canal. Well, I guess someone shaped up, because after 106 days, it has shipped out at last. The Ever Given is finally free. Free to continue its journey to the U.K., to unload the 18,000-plus containers stuck on it while it was stuck. And free to finally allow its brave, bored crew to disembark. But it has already sailed into the public consciousness. So, Ever Given, near, far, wherever it is -- we believe that its heart will go on.

[music: hip-hop beat]
DMC: Steve, last night you went down to your uncle's totem pole to see the damage. What went through your mind when you saw it with your own eyes?

STEVE SXWITHUL'TXW: Well, it was upsetting at first. You know, when you see something that is so sacred to our family, and knowing that it was a gift to the people of the area at the time in the 60s, you know, it was really upsetting. I admit I got a little emotional seeing the bottom half of the pole, you know, quite damaged. It is a carving at the bottom of the pole of a mask that comes from our family. And it… it moves me. And it moved me to the point where I had to sit down, and my kids were with me, and they were... they were examining it, you know, asking, you know, why would somebody do this? And I had to explain to them about, you know, what was happening in the world today, and why we have to deal with these types of... of... of issues at this time. So it was... it was pretty emotional for me.

DMC: Were you and your kids the only ones there?

SS: Well, no. Ironically, when I got there, there was a truck that was parked there. I didn't pay much attention to them, but there was two non-Indigenous people that were sitting there, two males. And when I approached, they were quiet. They didn't say much to me, but I looked over the pole. And... and then he asked if I was from the Modeste family? And I said, well, yes, I am. I said my late mum was a Modeste, and he relayed his... his sympathies and how appalled he was that somebody would be doing this to this pole. And... and… and, of course, the reflection of what's happening in and around Canada today.

DMC: And can you... can you describe the damage? I mean, what does it look like now?

SS: Well, the damage was, you know, in my opinion, severe. You know, I talked to the carver... my carver friend, Tom LaFortune, this morning. He's going to be looking at it later today. You know, I advised him that it was, you know, looking pretty bad. He's seen some pictures, but until you see it with your own eyes, you can see that it's charcoaled in some areas. I could see that there's definitely areas that won't be repairable. But according to Tom, there are parts that can be replaced. So, you know, I think if they're going to shave the pole down a little bit in diameter to reshape it, I think that's going to have to happen.

DMC: This arson happened 24 hours after the statue of Captain James Cook was thrown into Victoria Harbour. What do you make of those two events back-to-back?

SS: I was saddened to see that it's kind of tit for tat. I don't believe that really helps anybody. I don't think it's helpful when one is taken down, and another is vandalized or burned. I understand in terms of what... what... what happened with Captain Cook and this metal fragment that got thrown into the harbour. But I don't think a metal statue and the meaning behind a gift that First Nations offered to communities is... is the right way to... to... to fight back. I think there's other ways, and certainly dialogue and open communication about how we can move forward, I think is needed here.

DMC: Chief Don Tom of the Tsartlip First Nation and the Union of BC Indian Chiefs has weighed in and says that Captain Cook set the stage for the decimation of Indigenous people. And that the totem pole fire is, I'll quote him, "reminiscent of the way settlers have worked to steal and destroy our history and culture time and time again." End quote. How does that parallel that the chief is drawing sit with you?

SS: Well, I think it's fairly accurate. You know, whenever Cook came into the area, it wasn't gracefully taken over. With the doctrine of discovery, it really made a challenge for... for our Indigenous people who didn't really understand what that was when colonizers came to our lands. They felt it was their right to take land even though it was occupied by Indigenous people. This is something that we are still fighting today. I think Don has nailed it. And with the arrival of Europeans and contact, it has made a particularly hard time for our people.

DMC: Of course, in the news over the past few weeks, there have been about... about a dozen fires that have been set at churches on reserve. Including a recent fire on Vancouver Island in Tofino. What do you make of those fires?

SS: You know, as a residential school survivor, as a First Nations person who's active, an advocate for our history and being known across Canada, I don't support... support the burnings of churches. And, you know, I understand it to a certain extent, but not to the point where action is taken to actually physically burn down and possibly destroy not only the church but surrounding buildings and possibly take lives. That... I don't think that really solves anything. If everybody is truly thinking about this term that's been used so roundly the last 10 years, reconciliation, then, you know, those types of actions are just totally unnecessary.

DMC: At the totem pole, it was spray-painted, "one totem, one statue". What went through your head when you saw that?

SS: Well, it scared me, to be honest. Because we have a number of totem poles here on Vancouver Island. And I know we're not the only place, but I know Duncan is the "City of Totems" -- my hometown. And, of course, we have several totems that are down in the Victoria region. I think it only will bring more heartache and hurt and more pain. I think if... if there's anybody that's thinking about doing these types of actions, I'd ask them to please, you know, think twice and refrain and... and know that it's not making it any better. It's only making it worse.

DMC: And when your children asked you last night, why would someone do this? What did you say?

SS: Oh, well, you know, like, my boy is eight, and my girl is 12, and it's hard to explain hate, racism. And these are the things that, as a young man that I grew up with, was exposed to on a daily basis. And this is something that I was very... I'm using certain words with people don't understand or culture. They don't understand our traditions. And some people just don't like us for the fact that we're First Nations. And it's... it's hard to say that to a little eight-year-old boy who knows nothing but love and... and wants to be friends with everybody and wants to learn. And when I have to share this dark chapter with my eight-year-old boy, I mean, it's the hardest thing you have to do. I didn't think as a parent I would have to be dealing with this stuff at this stage of the game. So it was really, really difficult.

DMC: Steve, huy ch q'u. Thank you.

SS: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you, Duncan.

CH: Steve Sxwithul'txw is the nephew of the late Stan Modeste -- the artist whose totem pole was deliberately damaged. The fire seems to have been in retaliation for the toppling of a statue of Captain James Cook in Victoria, BC. And that wasn't the only statue to come down on Canada Day. At the Manitoba legislature in Winnipeg, protesters pulled down statues of Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria. Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister commented today.

SOUNDCLIP

BRIAN PALLISTER: I would say to those who are choosing to tear down right now rather than to build up that that is the wrong choice. And I would say to them, let us build together. That is the right choice. Throughout our country's history, well before we were acknowledged as a country, we were a home of hope to people from around the world who came from long distances away to pursue a better life. The people who came here to this country didn't come here to destroy anything. They came here to build. And they came to build better. To build, they did. And they built farms, and they built businesses, and they built communities, and churches, too. And they built these things for themselves and for one another, and they built them with dedication and with pride. And so, we must dedicate ourselves to building as well. And yet again. Because what these people have done, our ancestors, is they've given us a heritage. There are good and bad aspects to Canada's heritage, as there are to any country's heritage. We've had good times, and we've had bad moments. And Canada Day was one of those bad moments. But we need to respect our heritage, just as we need to respect one another. And so, our failures should not be celebrated, but they should not be repeated either.

CH: Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister today.

[music: sombre guitar]

NL Orcas Vacation

CH: It was supposed to be low-key. A day on the water. Some fishing. After all, Hayley Mills is on vacation. And how long has it been since anyone could say that? There's almost a responsibility to chillax to the max. The Nova Scotia native is visiting Newfoundland and Labrador. And she had achieved a high state of chillaxation while out on a small boat with her brother and a friend. Until this happened.

SOUNDCLIP

Jay MILLS: Right there. Look, right underneath of us.

HAYLEY MILLS: No, [beep], No, we got to go now! [Man laughs]

JM: We got to go!

HM: Look!

[both shout and swear]

HM: I literally [beep] my pants.

MAN: Look at him [beep. Look, Hale. Right underneath of us. Holy [beep]

HM: Holy crap! [beep] My heart is racing!

JM: That just... just scared the living [beep] out of me!

HM: Me too! Me too!

CH: [laughing] An unfiltered moment during a video taken by Hayley Mills while that small boat was surrounded by a pod of very large orcas -- which, you know, we had to filter a bit. And just one clarification. Ms. Mills was not using "literally" literally. Hayley Mills explained what prompted the probably-definitely-figurative "literal" pants-soiling.

SOUNDCLIP

HM: When we were about... about an hour-and-a-half or so, and we were just kind of sitting on the tip of Bell Island. And my brother's friend looked over and said, hey, I think that's a fin over there. So then we kind of motored over. It took us like maybe two minutes to get over to them. And then as soon as we got over, we... we thought we had only seen one. But when we got over there, we noticed there was like I think there was between five and seven. We're not quite sure. They just started kind of following our boat. So we turned the motor off. And then next thing you know, they were just right beside our boat. So we stood for a minute. You can hear me in the video going, let's go! [both laughing]

RAMRAAJH SHARVENDIRAN: Yeah.

HM: But then I started panicking.

RS: So you started panicking, but what did... what did your crewmates do?

HM: Oh, well, my brother's friend that was with us was calm as could be the whole time. I'm looking at him thinking like, how are you saying as

calm? Whereas you can hear me and my brother losing our minds.

RS: [laughing] OK.

HM: Losing our minds! And then you can see them go underneath the boat. That's when I got nervous. I was like, Jesus, if they come up right now, they're going to tip us.

RS: Did you guys --

HM: And then we just headed back into shore because we were just shooken up.

RS: So you couldn't... you couldn't stay on the water, eh?

HM: No, no. We were like, let's go back in. That was enough for the day.

[RS chuckles] And 20 minutes before we saw the orcas, we had seen two humpback whales.

RS: So this is a full day for you, eh?

HM: Oh, full day. Like we were out on the water for two hours. I caught my first cod, saw humpback whales and pretty much swam with killer whales. Like, we kind of weren't living in the moment because we were just in shock. And then we got back and kind of debriefed and were like, that was the craziest thing that's ever happened to us. Yeah, mind-blowing.

CH: Haligonian Hayley Mills speaking with the CBC's Ramraajh Sharvendiran from dry land in Newfoundland and Labrador.

[music: jazz]

California Beavers

Guest: Lynnette Batt

CH Seven years ago, ecologists in Placer County, California, were desperately trying to restore a dangerously dried-out floodplain at Doty Ravine Preserve. The place was so dry that fires were a constant risk. That left the authorities with two options: spend up to a million dollars in restoration efforts, or call in the beavers. They chose the beavers. And it has paid off extremely well. Lynnette Batt is the conservation director at Placer Land Trust. We reached her in Grass Valley, California.

DMC: Lynnette, a lot of people listening to this will... will know what beavers can do to... to water levels with their dams. Why did you turn to them?

LYNNETTE BATT: Well, it's a great question. And a lot of people think of flooding in terms of it's a bad thing. You want to prevent flooding, and you want to keep the stream and its channel. And you want to get rid of beavers because they're a nuisance and can cause flooding. In the case of ecological restoration, you think of floodplains as ecosystems. And so, flooding is a natural process. You want the stream to spill out onto its banks and to move across the floodplain because there's a ton of natural benefits that come with that. Wildlife habitat, groundwater infiltration, you know, all kinds of benefits to having a reactivated floodplain. And what... what better tool to use than the natural tool, which is beavers? And beavers are known as ecosystem engineers. So they're one of the few animals that actually modifies their habitats by creating dams that... that flood streams.

DMC: The reason you were trying to get the flooding back is you had a bit of a fire problem. Explain?

LB: Well, lots of reasons to getting the floodplains back. So fire is one part of the story. But just overall, ecosystem... the habitat that's created in the floodplains is tremendous. So it supports all kinds of birds, wildlife, again, water quality because you're slowing the water down and allowing it to filter back into the ground. So water storage plays a part. And then fire also, you know, plays a part of that picture as well.

DMC: Essentially, you invited the beavers back. Describe what it looked like when they started to restore the floodplain?

LB: It was incredible. The difference was drastic within just, well, one season. And then, within a few short years, the restoration was really completed. So before the... when we did the initial restoration, and there was still a large section of dried floodplain, it's dried grass, it's... picture a straight-stream channel shooting through the property from the top of the bank to the stream as a couple of feet. So it's a big drop. And the banks are eroded, and the banks are falling into the stream, and it's dry. And then the beaver came back... we allowed the beaver to come back, and we supported them by reinforcing their dams in some cases. And all of a sudden, the next year, if you were standing in the same place, you would not recognize... you literally couldn't recognize where you were standing because it was green everywhere, water everywhere, feet deep of water in the middle of the summer, feet of water out on the floodplain across, you know, 60 acres. That was really something. And the plants came back very quickly, you know, not... again, it wasn't designed. So we didn't have only native plants that we wanted to see. We had a mix of natives and non-natives and some invasive species, but we let that develop and kind of evolve naturally.

DMC: What was it like for you to see that incredible comeback, all this greenery return?

LB: Well, I've worked in-stream wetland and floodplain restoration for over 10 years, and I've never seen anything like it. So it's a big project on a small stream. So in terms of overall size, it's still a moderate to small project. But... but for... for this stream, it's really a big project and a good example. I've never seen anything come back so quickly. I've never seen so much water on the floodplain within one year. The beaver did what, in a few months of work, what it would take humans years to do. And again, you know, 10 times or more the cost wholesale.

DMC: Amazing! So, of course, we know wildfires are just such a huge problem in California, all along western North America. How much of an impact do you think the beavers could have in terms of mitigating fire risk in Placer County and other places?

LB: Well, you nailed it with the word mitigating. So this is a fire-prone landscape. And that's, you know, fire is a natural process in the West and all over, but particularly here in California. And so the ecosystems are adapted to fire, but they're, of course, adapted to a lower level of fire intensity than what we're seeing now, more frequent fires and less hot fires. And so anything you can do to break up that pattern of fire and to reduce the intensity is a good thing. So this floodplain area covers, you know, a half-mile of stream, and it's a width of 200 feet to 900 feet. So that's a pretty big firebreak. There actually was a fire on this property years back. And if there was this restored floodplain with the green and with the water, you know, it could have served as a firebreak potentially.

DMC: How much traction has your method gained in other jurisdictions?

LB: You know, it's not our method, but it's certainly a method that we were lucky to... to come across in partnership with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. I would say it's gaining a lot of traction, particularly in the West, particularly in the northwest. A lot of it has to do with salmon streams as well and restoring habitat for salmon. So that's another benefit of floodplains is it literally serves as habitat for juvenile salmon. They live in and, you know, grow up in the floodplain stream channels. So it's gained a lot of traction both in scientific and academic circles. Restoration practitioners are turning to it more and more because of the cost-effectiveness. And it just is more effective. In a lot of cases, you have a higher success rate with this approach than a more engineered approach. You know, we've been really fortunate, again, this partnership with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. So it served as a model and as an example site for some federal trainings.

DMC: Thanks for telling us about the beavers.

LB: Yeah, happy to do so. Thanks for having me.

DMC: Bye.

LB: OK, bye.

CH: Lynnette Batt is the conservation director at Placer Land Trust. We reached her in Grass Valley, California.

[music: island rock]

Denmark Sand Castle

CH: When tough times come around, you've got a choice. You can bury your head in the sand -- or you can design and build a skyscraping sand castle to show those tough times what's what.

SOUNDCLIP

WILFRED STIJGER: We started with the Corona on top. And then we give it a crown because Corona means crown. It’s like nice double. But we give it also crown because it’s ruling... it’s ruling our lives everywhere. It tells you what to do. It tells you to wear a mouth protection. It tells you to, you know, to stay away from your family and not go to the nice places.

CH: Sand sculptor Wilfred Stijger. Who was inspired by the pandemic to design and construct an enormous sand castle in a parking lot in the Danish village of Blokhus. He says that, at 21 metres tall, it's the largest sand castle ever built. Well over three metres taller than the world record holder. Thirty other artists joined in to create intricate designs on all sides of the behemoth -- working in perfect harmony because a house divided against itself cannot sand. The sculptors crafted the crown at the top and a kind of creepy-looking sand child holding a sand syringe as large as himself. Which, in 2021, is not a symbol of horror, but a symbol of hope. Now, sand castles are by their nature fun, whimsical, and ephemeral -- always one wave away from total annihilation. But that wasn't the vibe Mr. Stijger was going for. The final step in the no-day-at-the-beach construction process was to apply a layer of glue over the creation, in the hopes that this sand will stand the test of time. Or at least help their castle in the sky stick around a little longer -- before it's lost to the sands of time.

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July 07, 2021 Episode Transcript

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