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The AIH Transcript for June 9, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[music: theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Intolerable intolerance. After Sunday's deadly attack on a Muslim family, a former political candidate speaks out against the racism he heard while campaigning in London, Ontario -- and he shares his remorse at not speaking out earlier.

CH: Actions would speak louder than their words. Political leaders are condemning Islamophobia -- but the organizer of last night's vigil in London says her community deserves more than lip-service.

CO: Sorry excuse. Her government has settled a class-action lawsuit with survivors who attended residential schools as day students -- but the Minister of Crown Indigenous Relations says the prime minister still isn't ready to apologize for what they endured.

CH: Additional charges may apply. Criminals around the world entrusted their secrets to a messaging app that was billed as “Ultra Secure” -- but the app was run by the FBI, who've now made hundreds of arrests.

CO: Hats off to her. Moments after a high school grad in Massachusetts learns she's earned a huge scholarship, she makes an impromptu return to the graduation stage to give it away.

CH: And... nose in the air. Researchers in Spain develop a drone that can empirically determine whether a smell is bad, which seems kind of superfluous given that most humans can already tell.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Wednesday edition. Radio that doesn't blame the drone. It's just following odours.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: London Folo: PC Candidate, London Muslim Leader, Scholarship Giveaway

London Folo: PC Candidate

Guest: Jeff Bennett

CH: After Sunday's attack, a lot of residents of London, Ontario said it wasn't the London they knew. They were shocked that someone would intentionally drive their truck into a Muslim family, killing four people. But many people in the city's Muslim community are saying that, unfortunately, that is the London they know. And Jeff Bennett is saying it, too. The former Ontario Progressive Conservative candidate saw Islamophobia and racism first hand, when he was door-knocking on the campaign trail in 2014 in the district of London West. Instead of calling it out, Mr. Bennett says he thanked voters for their support -- a decision he says he deeply regrets. We reached Jeff Bennett in London, Ontario.

CO: Jeff, what motivated you to write that Facebook post yesterday

JEFF BENNETT: driving past the site of this horrific tragedy, terrorist attack, really. I… I... it's right down right down the road from my house. And I was just overcome with emotion over seeing the people gathered there. And then you start saying to people who are picking this out as an isolated event and saying this is unimaginable. And I thought it's not really unimaginable.

CO: You wanted to tell people what? What was it you wanted to tell about the London, Ontario and this neighbourhood that you know?

JB: That this isn't an isolated incident. That systemic racism exists here and people like to pretend like it doesn't, and London's a wonderful city. And it is, it’s not a London problem. This existed in cities right across the country and right across North America. But I think we need to be honest in looking in the mirror and realizing that it's not always those people over there that... that are the source of these issues and these problems. It's... it's in our own homes and it's in our own neighbourhoods. And that was the experience that I had, even knocking on doors.

CO: Let's talk about what you experienced. This is a 2014 provincial campaign. You were running as a Progressive Conservative. What did you encounter at the door?

JB: Well, the 2014 campaign was 10 months after a 2013 byelection here in London. And the candidate in the byelection was was a friend of mine, part of the London Muslim community, and a wonderful candidate and a wonderful person. And when I started knocking on doors, people were expecting he would be the candidate again because the elections were only 10 months apart. But he had decided not to... not to do this again. And so I was brought in last second as the candidate. And so when I was arriving at doors, people were surprised. And it became evident that a good number of those houses, people were pleasantly surprised. And they would say things like, oh, boy, we're excited to have you here. And say things like, Bennett, that's a... that's a good English name. And... and oh, and happy about the fact that I was their candidate. And it became evident very quickly that it was... it was because my name was English and my skin was white. That was pleasing to a good number of folks. And... and the more that this happened, and the more conversations I had, and the more I realized that Ali's experience 10 months prior to mine was a very, very different one.

CO: Ali Chahbar is the man who ran before, right?

JB: He ran in the election prior to me.

CO: You heard the reaction he was getting. You listened to... you mentioned this in your Facebook post about what you heard, how people reacted to him even on talk radio shows in London, Ontario, right?

JB: I felt like he should have won that election in 2013. And then suddenly, the conversation turned to Ali's family and his Muslim faith. And the fact that his wife, who’s a prominent lawyer in town, was a... was a supporter of of Palestinian rights, which as if that's a bad thing. And these were the conversations being held on... on talk radio. And all of a sudden, he lost in the election. But the focal point of the election became something very different than it would ever be with... with me as the candidate.

CO: You were getting volunteers who said they were happy you were there because the campaign office didn't look like the Middle East anymore, right?

JB: [sigh] Yeah, and that's... that's, you know, that's not from everybody, but those are the kind of comments I would receive.

CO: You’re not just calling out Londoners. You're calling yourself, right?

JB: Yeah, yeah, because when I… even when I ran in that election, when... when... when people would say things like this at my door, like, oh, Bennett, that's good English name. And, boy, we're happy to have you as our candidate. I would say thank you for your support and carry on. I think that happens too much. It’s in basements that I grew up in and really Ontario where... where there's no diversity and you're watching a hockey game and somebody screams something racist and everyone just ignores it. Or, you know, Uncle... Uncle Joe says something racist and the family says, oh, just leave him be. He'll never change. That's how things were when he was growing up. It's a very privileged position to be in to say it's not a big deal because I walk up to houses feeling 100 per cent confident that nobody at the door is going to give me any pushback because of the way I look. I walk through that neighbourhood all the time, and I would never, ever have to think that somebody is going to run me down because of the way I look

CO: Numbers of people who are responding to your Facebook post, they're asking about you being a Conservative, and reminding us that... well, you ran in 2014, in 2015, the federal Conservatives ran a campaign bashing Muslims, didn't they? I mean, it was an anti-niqab campaign. They... they called for a snitch line for barbaric cultural practices. How do you feel about being a Conservative?

JB: [sigh] Those things are heartbreaking. And I told people even when I was running. I decided many years ago I wanted to get involved in politics. You line up the top 20 issues of the day, and I realized that I agreed with the Conservatives on 10, the Liberals on six and the NDP on four. Like, who do you... who do you run for? And there's there's elements of each party that I don't necessarily agree with. But the more I was involved, the more I came to realize that the Conservative Party, all the parties, need to take a hard look in the mirror and how they're approaching things. But the Conservative Party as well, it's... I don't think they're being completely honest with themselves. And they spin these things. Like, even even the the Islamophobia bill that that whatever 70 some odd --

CO: Motion 103.

JB: Yeah, that they... they refused to sign. I feel it's outrageous. And I'm all... I'm all for free speech, obviously. But they make excuses and they're spinning it to say, oh, well we... it's not about that. Of course we're against racism. It's a lack of recognition What other people's experience might be.

CO: Are you still a Conservative?

JB: I'm not involved with any political party. It gets very frustrating. You know, a good friend of mine is running for the Liberal Party here in... here in London, and she asked me recently if I would consider getting involved again. And I said, look, politics needs another straight, white, middle aged guy like me like... like it needs a hole in the head. There's such a diversity of voices out there. That's what's really needed and that's what's important. And there's a whole segment of Canadian society that... that doesn't doesn't come in contact enough with the leaders of the Muslim faith or leaders from BIPOC communities. There's a lack of empathy towards Indigenous communities because we don't... we don't really put a face to it. And so we need leaders from all of those different communities so that people watching at home on their televisions or people going to events can come to know these different lived experiences. Because right now, we have too many people in Ottawa and Queen's Park whose lived experience is a very narrow one and it's not representative of society as a whole.

CO: Have you had a chance to speak with your friend Ali since you wrote this Facebook post?

JB: No, I have not. I reached out to him when it started to take off. And I... just to say, look, I'm sorry. He must be going through a horrendous week. And, you know, I didn't mean to be roping him into this, but his wife did write me and thanked me for the post. So I feel good about that.

CO: Jeff, I want to thank you, though, for holding up a mirror to your society, to the community and holding up a mirror to yourself. Thank you for that.

JB: Thank you.

CO: Take care.

JB: Bye-bye.

CH: Jeff Bennett is a former Ontario Progressive Conservative candidate in London, Ontario. Yesterday, he wrote a Facebook post calling out the racism he witnessed on the campaign trail in 2014. You can read more -- and see his post on our website -- www.cbc.ca/aih.

[hard in to next transcript]

London Muslim Leader

Guest: Nusaiba Al-Azem

CH: Mr. Bennett was with 10,000 other people last night, at a vigil in London. Nusaiba Al-Azem led that event. She's the second vice-chair at the London Muslim Mosque and a lawyer. We reached her in London.

CO: Nusaiba, what did it say to you when more than 10,000 people showed up last night to attend the vigil in London, Ontario?

NUSAIBA AL-AZEM: I think it was certainly 10,000 individual decisions of solidarity and love, so that goes a long way. And, obviously, members of all of the Muslim community and the London community wanted to grieve.

CO: Did it give you much comfort?

NAA: Certainly, certainly seeing that many people, it does provide some comfort.

CO: We just spoke to a former Conservative candidate in London, Ontario, who’s wrote a Facebook post that has been making the rounds. And in this Facebook post, what he remarked upon is that the family that was killed by this man, this man didn't operate alone because he was, quote, raised in a racist city that pretends it isn't. Do you think that's the case, that London is a racist city that pretends it isn't?

NAA: I do think there is pervasive racism in London. Whether I want to kind of go ahead and call it racist fully, it's kind of moot anyway. It doesn't matter. You want to call it a racist city, or you don't. There are a lot of people still suffering from racism in this city.

CO: What are your own experiences?

NAA: I've experienced racism in various nefarious ways since as long as I can remember. Whether it was overt or covert racism, it's really the smaller stuff that actually has more of an impact on you emotionally. But certainly, I’ve also experienced the death threats. I once had a manifesto sent to me about how to exterminate the Muslim problem, etc. This is, unfortunately, not new.

CO: And did you ever go to the police with these things?

NAA: I did not go to the police for the death threat. At the time, I was very young, and it honestly just didn't even occur to me really to do it, which is kind of crazy. You would think that Islamophobia isn't so normalized that people casually calling for your death should be something that you would feel like you should go to police for. But, unfortunately, and especially at that time, in the height of the Harper administration era, it was something that was almost a daily occurrence. Like, not... not a daily occurrence of a death threat, but Islamophobia was a daily occurrence.

CO: We talked about that with Jeff Bennett, the man who wrote the Facebook post, about the Conservatives, and the Harper conservatives running on the platform in 2015 that was full of button-pushing, like having a ban on niqab, and... and calling for a snitch line against barbaric cultural practices. What effect has it had that these things were said, that these things were called for during a very, very public federal campaign?

NAA: Well, it doesn't even just stop there. I mean, I wish it did. Maybe it was heightened during the periods that you reference. But, unfortunately, Islamophobia has been something that's been used for political expediency. And it's sickening that Islamophobia could be used for political gain, that we live in a society where that is something that could be used in a way that the voters would look at it favourably.

CO: Last night at the vigil, Erin O'Toole, the leader of the Conservative Party, was there. He spoke. He said that the nine-year-old boy who survived the attack on Sunday will be, as he says, looking to the nation to act. What would you like to see him do?

NAA: Well, the Muslim community ask was very clear yesterday. We would like for a national summit on Islamophobia to happen immediately. It should be non-partisan. And I'll be frank in saying that there were a number of political leaders who came and spoke. They held space where maybe other community members could have spoken, and that's not for free. The price of that is the way we expect some change.

CO: You want to hold them to that?

NAA: Huzuh! Exactly. So, I mean, politics can change, just the same way that stances on gay marriage have changed over the years. Maybe it was once politically expedient to not stand for Muslim rights. In any event, we're trying to look at what can we do now and moving forward?

CO: Just this week, Prime Minister Trudeau was asked about Bill 21 in Quebec, which is this secularism law, as they call it. And he said that Quebec has the right to do that. You're a lawyer. What does that mean to you?

NAA: There is a major legal jurisdiction in Canada wherein if I was, let's say, working as a Crown prosecutor and I moved to Quebec, I would have to be forced to choose to either practice my faith or practice my profession. That's awful. There's many examples of structural Islamophobia that's embedded in our nation, and that is tolerated if not promoted at the government level. So that's why a summit is necessary, because we need to unpack all of this. Because all of that is directly related to the vitriol that ends up teaching a 20-year-old how to hate enough to kill.

CO: Why does it take the death of a... three generations of a family -- people run over and killed because they're Muslim. Why does it take that before this conversation can be had?

NAA: That is an excellent question. And the real question is, why did it take a death last year and the six deaths in Quebec? Who knows if it even will take this. And hopefully, this is where it ends. No more vigils, no more platitudes, no more any of it. Because we want to see actual change.

CO: Nusaiba, I really appreciate speaking with you and... and having this conversation. We really need it. Thank you.

NAA: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

NAA: Bye.

CH: Nusaiba Al-Azem is the second vice-chair at the London Muslim Mosque and a lawyer in London, Ontario.

[music: glassy guitar]

Scholarship Giveaway

Guest: Verda Tetteh

CH: The first 45 minutes of Verda Tetteh's high school graduation in Fitchburg, Massachusetts, were a whirlwind. The ceremony began with her giving a speech to her classmates -- who had chosen her to speak. Then, she received a 40,000 dollar "general excellence" award from her school. Then, she made an impromptu return to the stage -- and said this.

SOUNDCLIP

VERDA TETTEH: Sorry again for interrupting, but I was just sitting down, and I'm hearing Mr. D talk about being selfless, and being bold, and doing what you know is right, which I know I said in my speech. And I am so very grateful for this, but I also know that I am not the one who needs this the most. And knowing my mom went to community college, and how much that was helpful, I would be so very grateful if administration would be consider... would consider giving the general excellence scholarship to someone who is going into community college. Because I know it is such a great honour, but I also know that I am not the most in need of it.

[sound: applause and cheering]

CH: That was Fitchburg High School's Verda Tetteh at her graduation ceremony last week. We reached the graduate -- who's headed to Harvard -- in Fitchburg, Massachusetts.

CO: Verda, just tell us what made you decide that you had to get back up on the stage?

VT: I was just sitting down and, you know, thinking about my classmates around me and my community, Fitchburg. And I just... I knew that someone around me needed it more. I'd gotten a very generous scholarship and financial aid from Harvard and a few other outside scholarships. So I felt, you know, decent and secure about finances in college. And I knew that you know, this 40,000 dollars was amazing, and I was so honoured. But someone else in that crowd needed it more. That's just... that's what I thought. [bright chuckle]

CO: Forty-thousand dollars! And, I mean, you just decided on the spur of the moment that you were going to give that away?

VT: Yeah, yeah, I had no idea I was going to get the scholarship. I had applied for it initially, but I had no idea that I was going to be the recipient. And it was very spontaneous. But I just... I think I knew deep down it was the right thing. And I couldn't... I just would have so much regret in me, and if... if I hadn't done that.

CO: Who was in your mind, or what did you think of the person who might get that 40,000 dollars?

VT: Right. Well, initially, when I was sitting down and thinking about, you know, doing this, I was thinking about my mom. She went to the local community college, Mount Wachusett Community College, and she worked really hard during her two years there. She would work 80-plus hours to kind of be able to pay the bills at home, but also the tuition, and also learning, and taking care of her kids. It was a lot on her plate. And I was just thinking, if, you know, someone else, you know, is going through this, just taking, you know, that financial burden off would be such a blessing to them. And I am so excited to, you know, see the process of us giving that money out, and... and seeing it change a life, or two or three. [bright and cheery laughter]

CO: See, you're thinking about your mom, and your mom was there, right?

VT: She was there. She was in the stands, and she was so excited when I did it. She had no idea what was going on until, you know, I announced it. But she was so proud of me. She told me later on she was very happy with my decision.

CO: OK, so you had given a speech, and big cheers went up for you on that. And then, how did they react when you came back to the stage? Do they know what you were coming back to do?

VT: They had no idea. Even the girl on the stage, Samari, she was kind of looking at me like, umm, what are you doing? [laughing] But I'm very glad that everyone kind of gave me that trust to, you know, go back up and speak what was on my heart. And no one even tried to stop me. And that was with them not even knowing what was going on. So I was... I was very grateful for that.

CO: What would have meant for your… your mom was an immigrant from Ghana, right, works two jobs still -- tough working woman. What would it have meant for her to have received the money that you are passing on to others?

VT: I mean, for all of us, our whole family, we immigrated here to America. And it was a tough journey. And I think that it would have meant so much for my mom to have received, you know, if something like that had happened, it would have meant so much. It would have meant, you know, maybe her working less hours so she could spend time for her family because, you know, that financial aid was covered. You know her, you know, taking care of herself because she didn't have to work so much.

CO: What was it like for her to try and get an education as an immigrant to the United States?

VT: We talked about this a lot. It was really challenging for a number of reasons. One being, you know, the language barrier when she first came. And even as she overcame that, other barriers, like, you know, being able to use technology fluently. For students who are going to college, you know, and have been born American, lived in America all their life, it's very likely they've kind of gotten a lot of exposure to phones and computers. And, you know, they probably type well. But, you know, at the age of 39, going into a community college, she was like a very slow typer. And, you know, still working out how to use a computer, all that stuff. So apart from just the challenges of school in general, she had, you know, technical challenges. And I'm glad that our whole family kind of rallied around her and was supportive in any and every way we could.

CO: She was going to school at the same time as you were?

VT: Yes, yes, she was. She was in college. And she is actually now getting her bachelor's degree in psychology at Liberty University. And she will graduate next year, I believe. And I will be at Harvard University.

CO: What does that say to you, the next generation, the first one is an immigrant from Ghana, and you're going to Harvard on a scholarship?

VT: Yeah, I think that... I just... to every immigrant, and every dreamer out there, right? Like, I spoke a little bit about in my speech, you really can do it. Don't sell yourself short. Work hard. And it really does pay off. Do good things and work hard, and it really will come back to you. God will bless you.

CO: Do you have siblings that you have inspired by this?

VT: [laughing] Yes, I have an older sister, Nadia, and a younger sister, Chelsea, and my little brother. And I think it's fair to say that they're inspired. Because afterwards, my little sister and I were kind of going through Ivys, and she was like, oh, like, which one should I apply for? [CO chuckles] And kind of shopping around for colleges. So I think that, you know, I inspired them to kind of work hard in their education, but also just to be a good person. I think my mom inspires us all to do that. So just more reinforcement for them, I guess I could say.

CO: And what is the school going to do with this 40,000 dollars? How will they administer that?

VT: Yeah, so the school's response was actually to contact me, and my principal made it very clear to me that they're listening to my voice on what they want me to do with the money. So we will meet up very soon and kind of sit down and, you know, plan the details and the process of how we want to administer that money. So they're fully, you know, respecting my decision and my voice in this process.

CO: Well, just finally, what... what are your plans? What are your dreams about what you're going to be studying? Where are you going to... what profession you want to go into?

VT: Yeah, I am going to Harvard in the fall. And I want to go to... into the medical field. So I think I'll go in and study chemistry or biochemistry with a premed track. And I always say I want to keep an open mind because there's a lot of opportunity at that, you know, university. And I never know what will happen. So I'm definitely keeping an open mind and open heart about my future. But those are my plans as of now.

CO: Verda, you're an inspiration.

VT: [laughing] Thank you. Thank you so much.

CO: Thank you.

VT: Uh, thank you!

CO: Bye-bye.

VT: Bye.

CH: That was Harvard-bound Massachusetts high school grad Verda Tetteh in Fitchburg.

[music: Hip-hop beat]

SNIFFDRONE

CH: It is a mystery that has eluded scientists since the dawn of science: how do we know when something smells bad? Physicists, mathematicians, chemists: all have tried to solve this vexing problem. All have failed. It seemed humanity would never find any reliable way of knowing when something smelled objectionable. But now: a deux ex machina. In the form of an actual machina called "SNIFFDRONE". SNIFFDRONE was developed by a Spanish company, and the Institute for Bioengineering of Catalonia. This phenomenal device contains dozens of special chemical, temperature and humidity sensors. It takes air samples, and sends them to a base station, where they're analyzed in real time to determine a) if there's a smell, and b) if the smell is bad. The researchers say the results "represent a significant advance in the field of odor management in the Waste Water Treatment Plants". Apparently, sometimes, people who live near such plants often complain about the smell. Which they think they're perceiving using a hopelessly outdated, primitive technology: the human nose. Fortunately, SNIFFDRONE will quickly and totally supplant that anachronism -- and tell these people, empirically, whether the smell they believe is bad is bad. And if it seems like an unnecessary and vaguely suspect invention to you, ask yourself: without the help of SNIFFDRONE, can you really trust that you're smelling a rat?

[music: elevator music]

Part 2: Minister Carolyn Bennett, FBI Burner Phones

Minister Carolyn Bennett

Guest: Carolyn Bennett

CH: They were known as "day scholars". Kids forced to go to Indigenous residential schools during the day -- but allowed to go home at night. When Ottawa and survivors reached the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement in 2006, "day scholars" were excluded. But now, 15 years later, the Trudeau government has agreed to settle a class-action suit brought by those survivors and their families. Diena Jules spoke at today's announcement. The Tk'emlúps te Secwepemc elder attended the residential school in Kamloops, BC -- where preliminary findings have confirmed the existence of undocumented deaths.

SOUNDCLIP

DIENA JULES: When I first went to the Kamloops Residential School at seven years of age, I was the third generation of my family. I endured five years as a scholar and one year as a resident. These years were the dark ages of my life. Before I went to the residential school, my paternal grandparents, who had not attended residential school, helped our family stay strong and our cultural and linguistic heritage. And taught me Secwepemctsin as a child. The residential school took all of that teaching and knowledge away from me. The other children and I were physically and verbally abused for speaking our native languages. The staff told me that speaking Secwepemctsin was a heathen activity. They called me a pagan and dumb Indian. And told me that I needed to become more wite. They called Secwepemc spirituality devil worshipping.

CH: Carolyn Bennett, the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Services, was also at today's settlement announcement. We reached Minister Bennett in Toronto.

CO: Minister Bennett, as you know, this lawsuit has been going on for 14 years. Why are you only settling it now?

CAROLYN BENNETT: The day scholars' case, they were very disappointed that they had been left out of the Indian residential school settlement agreement. And so it was very important that, really, even in opposition, even in my… I met with the scholars very shortly after I became minister. And we are... we are very pleased that today, they have agreed to a settlement that is viewed as fair. And particularly as you heard from Diena there, the importance of the revitalization society that will help them reclaim their language and culture and healing and commemoration. Because, you know, so many of the survivors and descendants said today that the monetary compensation is one thing, but they need to get back what they'd lost by attending that... that school where they were made to feel ashamed of who they were.

CO: And I want to come back to that in a moment. But let's just to stay on the question I just asked you. Because we heard Diena Jules, who attended the residential school in Kamloops, where we know that they've identified 215 graves. Why were Ms. Juels and her fellow survivors forced to wait so long that many have now passed away?

CB: Well, I think that we are all working to stay out of court. And that's been the work that we've been doing at the table. The survivors and plaintiffs have... have the right to go to court. And we have been working as hard as we can at the tables to find a settlement that… that would feel just and... and for... for the survivors. Many survivors have passed, particularly Violet Gottfredson and… and Fred Johnson. And, you know, the words of those that had passed were very much part of today, with you stole our language, you stole our culture, you stole our spirit. That feeling never goes away. And so it's really important today that the survivors and descendants are able to unlock the healing and to be able to make sure that everybody who would be eligible for this knows about it and is able to comment on it before it would be approved in the court this September.

CO: But the federal government has put in court filings that denies any legal responsibility for the loss of language and culture. Why is that?

CB: I... I would say, Carol, that... that... that... that is inaccurate. We have direct responsibility. Canada has responsibility for the loss of culture and the loss of language, and what happened with these colonial and harmful policies. So I... I do think that we... we want to be able to settle all of this... this litigation fairly. But it needs to be with the voices of the... the survivors. And as we go forward, to make sure that... that they feel heard and listened to and that it... and in whatever way we can to not be re-traumatized.

CO: OK, I'll just quote this from the federal document, federal lawyers. "While the federal government may have contributed to these losses of culture and language in various ways, such losses were not as a result of any unlawful acts or omissions of Canada or its employees or agents with respect to the operation of residential schools." How... how are people like Diena Jules to... to take that?

CB: Well, I think that we know that all the parties to the Indian residential school settlement agreement came to the realization that these were terrible policies where people ended up ashamed of who they were and... and punished for speaking their language or practising their culture. I think that we are also wanting to make sure as... as you... as we heard this morning from the survivors and the descendants that the role of the Catholic Church is also very important. And they... they are also wanting to hear an apology from the pope on traditional territories. And we will work very hard on that as well.

CO: But you said today that the prime minister, Prime Minister Trudeau, isn't ready himself to apologise to the day scholars. So why are you asking the Catholic Church to do what our own prime minister isn't willing to do?

CB: Oh, I don't think that's true, Carol. I think that in the apologies that we've been able to deliver, it is extraordinarily important to work with the survivors and the descendants to make sure that apology is exactly what the survivors and the descendants need to hear.

CO: So you just... you just haven't found the wording, is that what you're saying? But he is going to apologize to the day scholars?

CB: I think that what is going forward now is the work with the survivors and the descendants to actually work together on what they would need to hear.

CO: Just when is Canada actually going to really fess up to the damage that we did to First Nations, their culture, their languages, their communities?

CB: I think, Carol, that's what I do every day. Every day, we are working to... to undo these colonial policies that... that had tremendous harm inflicted on First Nations, Innuit and Metis. Every day, we are working to decolonize and to be able to... to get jurisdiction back for the children. And that's what Bill C92 did. And the reason why disentangling from the provincial and territorial governments and agencies to make sure that the community has absolute jurisdiction over their children, the youth then are able to bring their youth home based on their laws and customs and the ways they took decisions like we signed with the Anishinaabek Agreement here in Ontario last Friday.

CO: Minister Bennett, we will leave it there. And I appreciate you being on the program. Thank you.

CB: Thank you.

CH: Carolyn Bennett is Canada's Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations.

[music: jazz]

MB Priest Apology

CH: Since the preliminary finding of remains in Kamloops, B.C., there have been mixed reactions from the Catholic Church. On Sunday, Pope Francis tweeted, "I join the Canadian bishops and the whole Catholic Church in Canada in expressing my closeness to the Canadian people, who have been traumatized by [the] shocking discovery of the remains of 215 children at the Kamloops Indian Residential School." Which is an expression of sympathy, of course, but does not qualify as an apology. That same day, a church minister in Manitoba had a different message for his congregation. Father Paul Bringleson did apologize for residential schools. And he called out the failures of the leaders of the Catholic Church.

SOUNDCLIP

PAUL BRINGLESON: Whatever your feelings might be as a Roman Catholic today, as a Christian today, I invite you to take the challenge to help put Christ back into Christian in your own way amongst our Indigenous people. You don't need to be educated or brilliant or break or have all kinds of words. All that's required really right now for us as Christians, as Catholics, is to just be willing to acknowledge our wrong and to be willing to acknowledge that we have the heart of Christ, and we need to rely on that heart more. If there's a gathering in your community somewhere, be present. Don't be judgemental. Don't be sighing, and heaving, and crying, and wailing and whining about the gatherings and about what's being said or what isn't being said. Be silently present. Show your commitment to healing the hurt that we as a Church have inflicted on so many innocent people. I hope and pray that our apology this morning, my apology this morning, might be received in the spirit in which it's offered. I don't need anything in return. It's just something I needed to say. And if you're a Catholic listening this morning, perhaps there's something you need to say, your own way, and at your own pace. Let today be a beginning of our shared atonement for the sins of our past. In order that the true spirit of renewal that our Holy Father, Pope Francis, is desperately trying to come about in our Church, that that renewal might truly take place rooted in the humility of who we truly are.

CH: That was Father Paul Bringleson speaking last Sunday in Flin Flon, Manitoba.

[music: industrial]

FBI Burner Phones

Guest: Joseph Cox

CH: Criminals are known for using burner phones. But in the case of Operation Trojan Shield, those very phones burned the people who used them. This week, the FBI, along with the Australian police, revealed that they've been running a secret phone network for criminals. Of course, the criminals didn't know that they were signing up for the FBI's encrypted app, called Anom. And when they finally found out, it was too late. So far, the honeypot has led to hundreds of arrests in dozens of countries. Joseph Cox has been covering this story. He is a senior writer with Motherboard, VICE's tech news site.

CO: Joseph, just how big was Operation Trojan Shield?

JOSEPH COX: I mean, this is unprecedented, really. We've had law enforcement agencies shut down encrypted phone companies before. We've had other agencies hack the actual phones that criminals have been using. But this is the first time that a law enforcement agency, in this case, predominantly the FBI, have actually run one of these companies at this scale to intercept the text messages of the criminals or suspected criminals using this service.

CO: Wow! And so this is an app they called -- the FBI called -- Anom. How does it actually work?

JC: So usually, with these encrypted phone companies, they will have the microphone taken out, the camera removed, sometimes the GPS functionality as well, and they'll be configured in such a way to only send encrypted text messages. And that's basically what Anom claims to offer. But, of course, what the FBI actually did was secretly and silently attached another encryption key to all of the messages so they could listen in while the users carried on about their business, totally unaware.

CO: And how… [chuckle] who was using these phones that were provided by the FBI?

JC: So, for years, serious organized criminals have gravitated towards these sorts of companies. That includes money launderers, drug dealers, drug smugglers, hitmen for hire, essentially. Any sort of serious organized crime you can imagine has somehow touched this industry. And when it specifically comes to Anom, the court records do mention large-scale cocaine smuggling, money laundering, and in the various law enforcement press conferences over the past few days, the officials especially... especially emphasized that public corruption was going on in these devices. So that's potentially law enforcement officials leaking information to criminals as well.

CO: So this was an amazing sting. How did... how wide and how many people, how much drugs and everything else, did they actually see in this various sting?

JC: So hundreds of people have been arrested already. And it appears that law enforcement agencies have been using some of the information that they gleaned to, you know, intercept drug shipments, that sort of thing. But really, this is only the start of the story when it comes to the actual prosecution. You know, the FBI or the DOJ has now charged people who actually worked for this company, even though it was run by the FBI, rather ironically. And now that this operation is public, authorities can go and use this information that they gleaned from the phones and actually use that, you know, to charge, to convict and ultimately sentence people as well. So now is where the work really starts when it comes to the authorities, really.

CO: And how is the FBI able to convince criminals from around the world to actually use an app that they had developed?

JC: So this entire ecosystem is based on trust. And with previous phone companies, they would typically only sell to people who they knew. So for the FBI, they actually started, you know, taking over this company very early on in its infancy, if not at the start. And this person already sold phones from other companies to associates who worked with criminals. So they gained the trust right at the start. They didn't, you know, build this company, then try to side hustle their way in. This was built on trust from the very beginning.

CO: So how extensively was this being used then by the criminal networks?

JC: So initially, in Australia, it was only around 50 phones, but then once word of mouth sort of spread, it went up to around 3,000 phones. But the biggest leap... the biggest leap in the number of users happened when the FBI and other law enforcement agencies closed down. And EncroChat and Sky, which were two already established firms. After Sky shut down, Anom's user base tripled to 9,000 devices. And I think overall. They've had nearly 11,800 devices in total. Again, that's across 100 countries, 27 million text messages and 300 apparently distinct criminal groups were in on this... on this honeypot, essentially.

CO: How did it never get leaked? How... how could they operate this so extensively through so many people? How come they never caught on?

JC: I am genuinely surprised that this did not leak. It was... it was going on for years and years and years. I cover this industry quite a lot. And, you know, I did not see this coming. I did not see this escalation from the FBI of actually running an encrypted phone company. And also, when I mentioned, you know, apparently law enforcement officials have been leaking details of other investigations to criminals. There was, of course, the fear that the very investigation designed to entrap all of those people... or sorry, I should say, capture all those people, not entrap them, that that didn't leak either. I think it's a genuine surprise that information about this did not trickle out.

CO: [chuckling] And it's a surprise to you. How do you think the crime bosses felt about it?

JC: Yeah, I think they would have been totally surprised as well. What usually happens with these is that one company will shut down, and then all of the users will move to another or another couple companies. But clearly, what the FBI wanted to do here was that not only were they going to shut down the companies, but when you move, and you think you're safe, we're then going to reveal that we were in control of that organization as well. I mean, I think the effect, at least potentially, is that the FBI and its other law enforcement partners have shattered the trust that was in this... in this ecosystem.

CO: Wow! And... and if they're being so effective, why do you think they just didn't keep it going? Why... what… do you know why they decided to call it in and see what was in their net?

JC: I think at some point, a law enforcement agency has to transition any sort of data they collect. They need to switch that from an intelligence operation into a much more straightforward law enforcement operation. You can't use, generally speaking, evidence in court if you don't say where that evidence came from. Of course, there are exceptions to that. But, generally, that's going to be the case. So I imagine they wanted to start prosecuting people. And there's only so long you could probably run this sort of operation for legal reasons as well. But now they've done that. They've collected information. And now they can actually use it in the courtroom, potentially.

CO: OK, it's quite a story, Joseph. Thank you.

JC: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

CH: Joseph Cox is a senior writer with the website Motherboard.

[music: smooth jazz]

FOA: ‘Wow’ Music Kid

CH: Sitting at home with a bowl of Cheetos watching your favourite band livestream over Zoom was the closest most of us got to a concert in 2020. But thankfully, that's about to change. As venues start to reopen, it finally seems like that magic feeling of attending a live concert is within reach. To remind you of that magic, we thought we'd revisit our interview about Ronan Mattin. In 2019, the nine-year-old was with his grandfather at the Boston Symphony Hall, listening to Mozart. And at the end of the performance, Ronan couldn't contain his excitement.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: orchestral number ended by a wow and then clapping]

CH: That "Wow" delighted people all over the world. And from 2019, here's Carol speaking with Ronan's grandmother, Claire Mattin, about her grandson's awe-inspiring awe.

SOUNDCLIP

CM: It was just a funny story -- it was another Ronan story. He's quite a guy. But when I heard the recording -- oh my.

CO Just take us back to Sunday. Was Ronan pretty excited about going to the concert?

CM: Oh yes Ronan was very excited. He loves music. And Stephan especially makes it a point to take him to anything that's musical. So he was very excited. He had gone to a concert in Boston a few weeks before and that was all he talked about. So when my husband told him that he was going to a concert on Sunday he was, "Yes! Concert." He wanted to go and he knows the way to Boston. He said, yes 95 to 46 -- and we go to Boston.

CO: And this wasn't like 1812 overture or something. It's not something with a lot of bangs and bells and whistles and stuff. What do you think it was about that touched him so much?

CM: Well I think that he picks up on the emotional tone of the music, you know. And he gets into it -- he is involved. When he's listening to music at home, he's dancing around and pretending to conduct -- it just moves him, it gets to him more than a lot of other things that we do with him to try to bring him out.

CO: When you say try to bring him out, what are you referring to?

CM: Well he is on the autism spectrum. He's mostly non-verbal. So for him to emotionally express his feelings with the word was amazing.

CO: That's all the more touching and wonderful about the story that that's the case. So how often does he express himself in this way?

CM: We've maybe heard it four or five times.

CO: Wow!

CM: Yes exactly. Exactly.

CO: And it's such a clear recording, isn't it? And just in that dead silence that it's a convention -- unwritten rule -- when you go to hear a symphony orchestra that you stop in classical music -- you don't say nothing at all, you give it this moment of silence, and then there's the applause. But just to fill that moment -- everybody else obviously was thinking it -- was so extraordinary, wasn't it?

CM: Yeah. And you know again at the time as it was happening my husband his immediate reaction was oh no -- you know they're going to kick us out. But then right away everyone started laughing and applauding. And that was emotional. You know the whole week has been a rollercoaster ride.

CH: From 2019, that was Carol speaking with Claire Mattin about her grandson Ronan, and his moment of wonder heard around the world.

[music: indie rock]

Part 3: Squamish Gondola Opens, Norway Whale Tests

Squamish Gondola Opens

Guest: Kirby Brown

CH: Squamish, British Columbia's Sea to Sky Gondola is set for its grand-reopening on Friday. But the saboteur who's shut the operation down twice has yet to be caught. The gondola sweeps passengers from the rainforest to a perch atop a ridge to the south of the world-famous Stawamus Chief Mountain. But in August 2019, someone cut the cable -- forcing the whole thing to be rebuilt. Then, last September, someone cut the cable again, sending gondola cars tumbling down the mountain and nearly taking a security guard's life. Police have never charged anyone for either act of sabotage. But Kirby Brown says that all systems are "go" for the gondolas to return to operation on Friday. Mr. Brown is Sea to Sky's general manager. We reached him in Squamish.

CO: Kirby, what makes you so certain that the Sea to Sky saboteur won't return for another try?

KIRBY BROWN: hmm, I’m not at all certain that they won't try. What I'm really confident in is the measures we put in place over the past eight months and linking into the efforts that we put in from the first attack. Now, of course, nothing's foolproof, and it’s definitely not meant to be a taunt. It's just to say that we've, you know, become a security organization using the expertise that was sourced for us and some of the best folks on the planet. So weird and sometimes dark world, but we've embraced it wholeheartedly. It's something that we have to do. So, you know, the... the experience itself is incredibly safe. That this person might want to come back and do further damage is an assumption that we're just going to make and carry forward with us.

CO: But it's after-hours that's your issue, right? That… and this is when it's happened before. And so, what can you actually do? I mean, it's… [chuckle] at some point, there's nobody around except security. How can you prevent it from happening again?

KB: Well, you know, certainly securing a two-kilometre lift line that goes up the side of a mountain through provincial park is no easy feat. And we've just used a very multilayered approach, largely centred on technology, but certainly supported by a professional team of security experts that are using that equipment to observe and be wary of anybody who's coming within reach of any of our infrastructure, not just the lift, but everything that we have from both the base to the summit. And that's a 24-hour operation staffed in a way that is reliable. And the technology and the methodology that goes along with it are ever-evolving and changing. So it's... it's not a static system. It's meant to be something that we constantly are learning and... and adapting to the environment as the days and weeks and months go by.

CO: What are your theories as to who has been doing this?

KB: Well, I’ve probably spent too much time speculating, even though I've warned others against it, you know? And I mean, my... my sense is that one, I just don't know. It's all based on the assumption, you know, we're in the business of inviting people into this beautiful backyard, and that's it, you know? But it has to be a message. I don't think it's just vandalism. Twice in a row would seem absolutely, absolutely extraordinary and extreme. So it's somebody that doesn't want either the gondola here, or what the gondola means. And... and we mean a new perspective for Squamish and for tourism in this town. And I accept that, and accept that that's not what everybody wants for this town. But, you know, communities can't stand still and nor can they go back in time. We just represent a way to diversify the economy and to offer people something fun to do in their own backyard.

CO: When you say that this is someone who perhaps doesn't want the gondola and doesn't want what the gondola does, what does the gondola do?

KB: Hmmm, you know, we're such a simple business. We... we are about inviting people who might not otherwise be able to access the full beauty of BC up to our lodge. And, you know, we kind of step back from that. You know, we're in the Squamish Nation's traditional territory and a truly sacred space in Shannon Basin. And we just honour that by offering people a way to connect with the big backyard that is this beautiful province. And that's kind of it, you know? People use it for hiking and for backcountry skiing in the wintertime. And some people just use it for a glass of wine on the deck to take in the views. But... and that's all we aspire to be. You know, Squamish is one of the most beautiful places on Earth. And we like to share that with people, most especially our local folks. And... and that's kind of it. So there's a simplicity in what we do, and we really enjoy that.

CO: But for those who enjoy it as a place, you can go hiking, backcountry, skiing, climbing, these are quiet activities. Someone having a simple glass of wine is also a gondola making noise and big mechanical motions across that space, right? They’re... they're not the same things, are they?

KB: Well, you know, the gondola itself is a relatively unobtrusive instrument. It's run on electricity. The way it was built to the top of Habrich Ridge was using lidar technology at the time that allowed us to pinpoint only the trees that needed to be removed. So it was a minimum impact, but it is, you know, a piece of industrial equipment. It's a pretty piece, I would say. But, you know, there are places in this world that we need to open up and offer to people who either have accessibility issues or for the average pedestrian human being that wants to go and experience outdoors in a way that is safe and responsible.

CO: But Squamish is really changing quickly, isn't it? I mean, to say this is a different kind of tourism than the... in this beautiful backyard than has been in the past. But it's also a place of... it's attracting big real estate developments, a lot of expensive price tags on that housing. It's... it's... I guess it's possible people are having a hard time with that.

KB: Well, I think so. I mean, you know, housing costs across this country have skyrocketed. You know, I live in that reality myself. And in Squamish, you know, halfway between the most liveable city on earth, Vancouver, and the best ski resort on the continent, you know, Whistler, it was sort of destined to grow. It's on the ocean, in the mountains with lakes and rivers. It's absolutely spectacular. And as the urban environment of Vancouver grows, you know, it's more than just spill-over. It's a choice people are making because of the quality of life that’s here. In terms of plays a role in sort of advertising what a beautiful place it is. But, you know, there's nine million vehicles travelling through Squamish every year to Whistler. It's not like it was a hidden... hidden secret. I think what the gondola may have shared with people was a different perspective on just how stunning and vastly beautiful the place is. And... and certainly, that might contribute in a small way. But we don't take credit for the growth of the town. The town itself has been a resilient, ever-changing community that's overcome great hardship over the years and is proud to stand up and... and claim its role in history and in this place. And we've got a lot of learning and growing to do. But as a community, it's the most wonderful place to be, Carol. It was just a couple of weekends ago, a couple in the trucking industry here passed away in short order of one another due to COVID. And there was a truck processional of some 90 vehicles rolling up and down the highway into the community, and hundreds of people lining the streets to hear their horns honk. It's that kind of town, you know, where it's gritty and beautiful and caring, and it's just filled with kind people.

CO: We'll leave it there. Kirby, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

KB: Thank you, Carol.

CH: Kirby Brown is the general manager of Sea to Sky Gondola. We reached him in Squamish, British Columbia.

[music: folk]

The Halo Trust Attack

CH: Authorities in Afghanistan say that last night, Taliban militants attacked members of the British mine-clearing NGO, The Halo Trust. Masked gunmen stormed their compound -- and slaughtered 10 aid workers. The Taliban has denied any involvement, saying they would "never carry out such brutal attacks." Here's The Halo Trust's CEO James Cowan talking about the attack.

SOUNDCLIP

JAMES COWAN: At 10 to 10:00 local time, a group of armed men entered a Halo camp in Baghlan province and went to bed murdering members of the Halo Trust. In total, 10 of our staff were killed, and a further 16 were wounded. This is the most serious incident that The Halo Trust has endured in its existence since it came into being in Afghanistan in 1988. I know that the thoughts of all 10,000 members of staff of The Halo Trust worldwide will be with the families of those who died last night, and indeed, of those of the wounded. Each one of those unnamed young men was a member of a family, was a father or a brother or a son. And the hope they have left in The Halo Trust is huge. What took place last night was genuinely horrific. The Halo of Trust is a humanitarian organization. We've worked in Afghanistan since 1988. We have two and a half thousand staff. Every day, those two and a half thousand people, men and women, go out to help Afghans. They are Afghans. Every single one of them is a local member of staff. They risked their lives clearing landmines, and now they've given their lives to murder. We could take note of this incident and leave. We could be fearful of what is happening in Afghanistan. But we were there before 9/11 -- a full decade before. We've been through all the ups and downs of life and death in Afghanistan. And now, as the international community prepares to leave, we're going to stay. We are there for the people of Afghanistan, and we still have a job to be done. Many of the young men who died last night were Hazara. The whole purpose of The Halo Trust is to employ people of all communities, of all ethnicities, we are there not just for one group, but for everyone, and we will continue to do our work.

CH: That's James Cowan, CEO of the British mine-clearing NGO The Halo Trust, speaking about last night's attack on members of the group. The UN has called for an investigation.

[music: indie rock]

Norway Whale Tests

Guest: Siri Martinsen

CH: Researchers with the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment are defending themselves against accusations that they're harming whales. The controversy stems from a series of experiments designed to determine how various sounds affect minke whales. But Siri Martinsen doesn't like the sound of those studies. And the Norwegian veterinarian isn't alone. So far, more than 60,000 have signed a petition urging Norway's government to revoke its approval of the whale research. And Ms. Martinsen hopes that might help sink the project. She's the head of Norway's largest animal rights NGO, Noah -- which is based in Oslo.

CO: Siri, what exactly is the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment planning to do with these minke whales?

SIRI MARTINSEN: They are planning to catch wild minke whales in a kind of fish farming pen, and then they're going to restrain it and equip it with the experimental equipment. And this will, of course, cause great stress and possibly panic for the whales.

CO: OK, so they're going to hold them into, like, kind of fish farm style pens. How are they going to get them into these pens?

SM: I assume they will try to lead them into the pens or hunt them into the pens. But this was also… would also be a stressful experience for the whales. But the worst thing is that they're going to restrain them and hold them still in these pens for several hours.

CO: And what are they going to equip them with?

SM: Well, they're going to equip them with some sound experiment equipment. And they are saying that this is equipment used on human babies. So they're sort of trying to depict it as... as a very harmless experiment. But it's not the equipment in itself we are worried about. If you use this equipment on a dog or another animal that would be accustomed to humans, that would probably be OK. But it's not OK to catch and restraint a wild minke whale. It's stressful, and it... it can actually also, well, cause death of the whales. Because if the whales are panicking, they are also trying to sedate it, which is a very rare thing to do with whales. And when it has been done before, it has also been causing death to whales.

CO: What do they... what do they say they're trying to find out with this experiment?

SM: They say they're trying to find out the lower threshold of sounds to which the whales react. But there has been a lot of other experiments on wild minke whales that are free to move away from sounds. And we already know that defence and also oil industry, they are causing detrimental sounds to the whales. And we already know this. We do not really need to restrain wild... wild whales and cause them possibly a very harmful experience.

CO: But they say they're only planning to expose the whales to... to the lowest noise that they can actually hear. That's a quote. And that, basically, they just want to see the effect that possibly the oil and gas industry is having on the whales and what they can hear. So is there no advantage to that?

SM: Um, well, there is all this advantage to knowledge. But also, we do have knowledge. And it's a much better experiment to... to build on that knowledge with free whales that can move away from towns than to have invasive experiments where the whales cannot move away for several hours without restraint and possibly panicking. So... so, yes, knowledge is good. But we do have it already, and we can do measures. And also, experiments should be done in a way that do not risk animals in the way that this experiment actually does.

CO: if they already have the data, why do you think they're doing these experiments?

SM: Well, they can only answer that themselves. But both the oil industry and the military are causing trouble for whales. And we do know from other industries that cause trouble for nature and animals that funding more research is sort of a way to delay doing measures. I can't say for sure that this is the case, of course, but we can say that measures have not been done on the research that is already in place. And we think that this is an unnecessary experiment.

CO: So you think that this is just optics? They just want to give the appearance that they're doing something?

SM: That is a possibility. Of course, you can always call for more research before you do measures to actually help animals and nature.

CO: So what should they be doing instead of doing more... more studies and more tests? What do they need to do for the minke whales?

SM: Well, the activity that is detrimental to whales would, of course, need to be stopped or... or done in a way that is not detrimental to the whales. And when it comes to the oil industry, of course, we have also a lot of other problems for climate reasons and other reasons.

CO: And what is the status now of the minke whales? What... how endangered are they?

SM: Well, they're not endangered on the Norwegian red list. But still, there are animal welfare concerns. And also, we know that whites are very important to the ecological system in the seas. And... and also, the climate change is also a pressure on the... the life in the seas, including whales. So we do not really know when the sort of breaking point is for different species. And we should be careful and try to avoid any disturbance for whales, even though they are not threatened under Norwegian red list for the moment.

CO: I know you have been in touch with government officials in Norway about this project. There's a petition with more than 60,000 signatures. Do you think, is it your sense that they've already started or are they going ahead with the research anyways?

SM: We have filed a complaint, and it was sort of just... well, [chuckle] it was not taken into account. And as far as we know, the experiment is now sort of setting up. There has not been a confirmation that the whales are already caught or restrained. So we do not know that, but the area is closed off. So it's really quite difficult to get knowledge, accurate knowledge, about how hopeful they are in the experiment. But we hope that this international attention and the signature campaign and also the support of different marine mammal experts will now make the Norwegian agency which issues permission to animal experiment, rethink the whole experiment, and at least inspect the experiments and... and be alert to any detrimental effects and stop the experiments if that happens.

CO: All right. We'll be watching. Siri, thanks for speaking with us.

SM: Thank you.

CH: Siri Martinsen is a veterinarian and runs Norway's largest animal rights NGO, Noah, which is based in Oslo.

[music: ambient]

Gradin LRT Station mural

CH: Edmonton's Grandin LRT station has lost one of its murals. And soon, it will lose its name as well. On Monday, the city unanimously passed a motion to remove a mural of Bishop Vital-Justin Grandin. By Tuesday, that motion was quickly honoured. And now, the mural is six panels of orange -- with no picture at all. The removal comes amid a growing chorus of calls by activists and Indigenous groups to remove monuments and symbols that glorify the architects of residential schools. Jaimy Miller is the director of Indigenous Relations for the City of Edmonton. She spoke to the CBC about this week's developments.

SOUNDCLIP

JAIMY MILLER: in Light of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls for action, I think there's been a requirement for a deeper conversation about Canada's history and some of these figures that played a role in the colonization of Indigenous peoples. And, of course, the perpetuation of residential schools, the Indian Act and other things like that, that unfortunately resulted in the destruction of Indigenous families, culture, languages, and has resulted in historic trauma, that... and real trauma that people still feel today. When it comes to these type of conversations, I think we try to approach this work from that spirit of truth and reconciliation and consensus-building and coalition building. And I think dialogue takes time. Understanding takes time. Relationship building takes time. And I feel like, again, in the years that have gone by, more and more Canadians have learned the horrific truth of what went on in these schools. And I, again, think that the public discourse has shifted to the point where it's again become more about we need to take action to stop the trauma and stop hurting people. And so that really, I think, has given us this push that we needed at a political level and at a societal level to now take action and do the work we need to do going forward.

MARK CONNOLLY: Do you think the discovery of this massive gravesite in Kamloops is an inflexion point that really has changed a lot of things?

JM: It's been a very hard... what, it's been maybe 10 days or almost two weeks since... since the announcement. And I've spoken with people in many different communities. I've spoken with Indigenous residential school survivors, with elders, with intergenerational survivors, and everyone is grieving. And so I really do think that the... the conversation has shifted, and there's a greater understanding of just the devastation and the sorrow that something like this brings to Indigenous people and that Indigenous peoples have been grappling with for hundreds of years.

CH: That was Jaimy Miller, the director of Indigenous Relations for the City of Edmonton, speaking to Mark Connolly, host of "Edmonton AM".

[music: jazz]

Cicada Collision

CH: When I'm on the road, I stay chill. Wave in anyone who's trying to turn in front of me. Signal every lane change a comfortable five minutes before I make it. Keep my cool when someone honks at me and flips me off for going 20 kilometres under the speed limit. I just have an unflappable demeanour. But even the most unflappable drivers can become very flappable in very flappy situations. Because -- well, a back-seat driver is bad. But what's worse is an in-your-face driver. Especially when their face has big, red, compound eyes. And it's buzzing loudly. Anyone would find it pretty hard to keep their own eyes on the road. Or...their car. That was the struggle of one man earlier this week in Cincinnati, where the air is currently thick with Brood X cicadas. One of the billions of amorous, shrieking insects saw a window of opportunity and took it. Unfortunately, that window was in the man's moving vehicle. The cicada struck the driver in the face -- causing him to shriek. And lose control of the car. And drive into a utility pole. The car was seriously damaged, but the man was not. Beyond his pride. Because, the thing is, cicadas can't hurt you unless you let them. By driving your car into a pole. Which really isn't the pest-case scenario. With a song that was in the air last time the Brood X cicadas were here's Shania Twain with "In My Car (I'll Be The Driver)".

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June 9, 2021 Episode Transcript

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