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The Current Transcript for June 9, 2021

Host: Matt Galloway

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

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We have lost almost twice as many people to the toxic drug supply as we have to cope. It's tragic, absolutely tragic.

MATT GALLOWAY: In the shadow of this pandemic, another crisis has been unfolding across the country. Deaths from opioid related overdoses continue to rise and disproportionately in British Columbia. It is indigenous communities that are being hit hardest in 30 minutes. Why understanding the role of trauma and racism is key to addressing an emergency that's killing hundreds of people every year. Also this morning, your letters on how the pandemic has changed your relationship with the natural world, mostly for the better. And later.

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Today, things are different. Like if you see a sexy woman on the street when we were 20 years old, you whistle. Times have changed.

MG: Not as much, perhaps, as Danny the Plumber might think after a female contractor called out the podcast. Those comments were made on. We'll look at how far the construction industry needs to go to address sexism on the work site. That's in an hour. But we begin again in London, Ontario, and a fear of being visibly Muslim on the streets of that city and beyond. Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway. And this is The Current.

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These Muslim women say they face 'constant,' 'relentless' harassment because of their faith

Guests: Areej Ansari, Azeezah Kanji, Wati Rahmat

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My sister would not have wanted us to live in fear with wearing hijabs, she would she would have wanted us to be proud of our identities. She would have wanted us to unite together, to stand for what is right. She would have wanted us to be kind to one another. That's all I ask. Take pride in your hijab and your religion. Be humble and be kind.

MG: As family friend Yasmeen Khan speaking at a vigil last night in London, Ontario, for the Afzaal family. Madiha Salman, her husband Salman Afzaal, his mother Talat and the couple's 15 year old daughter Yumna, were killed in what police have called a targeted crime motivated by hate. Political leaders yesterday called it a terrorist attack. All four run down by the driver of a pickup truck while out for an evening walk. Their nine year old son was also hit and is in hospital in serious condition. All of this loss because they were Muslim, according to London police. Areej Ansari is a fourth year student at Western University in London and lives near where the attack happened. She was at the vigil last night and joins me now. Good morning.

AREEJ ANSARI: Good morning.

MG: How are you doing today?

AREEJ ANSARI: I will definitely say it's difficult. I think this entire week will be difficult. I think a lot of things are going to change, hopefully after what took place. But yeah, I don't think anything about this is supposed to be easy for I don't think anybody at this point.

MG: Yeah, I can imagine. What was the vigil last night like for you? I mean, it was the crowds were huge and there was we heard a little bit of what Yasmeen Khan was saying. What was it like for you?

AREEJ ANSARI: Honestly, I was right next to you. I mean, the entire time because I was on standby to go up representing the Western Muslim Students Association. We ended up having to cut that out just because of all the politicians that showed up. So we wanted to give them enough time to speak. So I was watching, I guess, from, I guess, the point of view of the speakers. And I noticed so many people showed up and it really was heartwarming because we had a Sikh community come out and they were distributing water bottles to everybody. So it was just really nice to see everyone come together, I think in a moment of like where everyone's worried and feels unsafe.

MG: Police have called this a targeted crime motivated by hate. When you think about this family being targeted simply because they were Muslim, I mean, what goes through your mind? How do you how do you try to understand that?

AREEJ ANSARI: Well, I guess it's really difficult to understand in the sense that, like, when I go outside, I wear my hijab, right? So I am like I, while I understand, this is a target on my back. You don't feel the gravity or understand the gravity of that until you find out somebody that you knew passed away because of that, you know, that they were- that their lives were taken solely based on the fact that they were Muslim. So it's definitely uneasy in the sense where I don't know why people are staring at me. I don't know if it's because, for example, they might like what I'm wearing or whether they're planning on doing something to me. So not being able to differentiate them, it makes me very uneasy, especially now thinking about going to public. I think just touching on this briefly, the area where this happened, I go there often. It's just like a little bit farther from where this happened is where I do my grocery and walk in clinic. I go there like twice a week. So and I've been there to do like photography for sunsets and things like that. So to think that that could have been me just because, like, I walk in that area and it's absolutely terrifying if you think about it.

MG: Is that how it feels as a woman who wears a job, that you have a target on your back?

AREEJ ANSARI: Yeah, I mean, definitely, like there are times where things happen and then I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I'm not sure why they happened. I'm not sure if it's because I'm a woman, because I'm a Muslim woman. Right. Like, I don't want to like I try to see the best in people. But definitely I will say that, like, I do know that there are people who are very Islamophobic and, you know, there are people who would want to see me leave this country. Right? So it's not entirely surprising to me either at this point. I remember on the same street, on Hyde park in Sarnia, just one intersection after, I had gone, I think two months ago to do some photography by the railroad because it's a beautiful sunset that happens there every evening. On the way back on Hyde Park, I had someone threw a beer bottle at me out of their car window again. It was one of those things where it's like, I'm not sure whether it's because I am Muslim or because I'm a female just walking on the side of the road. I wasn't sure what it is, but definitely like there are people who just look at what I'm wearing a fabric, the piece of fabric on my head and what I believe. And they think that's enough to remove my existence from this world.

MG: That's awful. And I'm sorry for that. And I know that this is a familiar sentiment as well within the community. I want to bring a couple more women into our conversation. Wati Rahmat is a community activist in Edmonton. Azeezah Kanji is a legal academic who studies systemic Islamophobia in Toronto. Good morning to you both.

WATI RAHMAT: Hi, Matt.

AZEEZAH KANJI: Good morning, Matt.

MG: Wati, as a woman who wears hijab and I know you've lived in a couple of different cities in this country, in Montreal and in Edmonton. What's your experience been like?

WATI RAHMAT: Yes, thank you, for having me today. You know, I lived for nine years in Montreal, [unintelligible] and Edmonton. I can say that experience is different, but I definitely feel like I was targeted for, you know, just people look at you differently and being harassed on the street. And I was, while in Montreal during the last provincial election, you know, I was harrassed, jsut walking around the streets. You know, people telling me to go back to where I'm from or take off my hijab or even just lining up and [unintelligible]. So, I mean, why are you wearing hijab? It was constant. It was relentless. And that's why I moved out of Montreal at that time thinking that, you know, maybe out west it will be better. In Edmonton, so far my personal experience, it's been more, kind of [unintelligible]. But again, at the last election, someone again, tells me on the street, while walking, to take off my hijab. It happened. And for a lot of us, just like what Areej said was, [unintelligible] is those little things that you don't really know when it's because, you know, Muslim or you look different, but definitely you feel that you're treated differently and especially in Alberta. The effect of it is real. I mean, it's dangerous. Like in the past couple of months, we've had Muslims being attacked in Edmonton, in Calgary. So the fear and the threat is real it's not just an imagined thing.

MG: What about for you, Azeezah? I mean, have you felt singled out, experienced racism because you are a Muslim woman?

AZEEZAH KANJI: Certainly the Times and I have experienced the most overt hatred out on the streets in Toronto, for example, being spat out in the face have been times when I've been wearing hijab. But honestly, Matt, as a Muslim woman, I am so tired of being asked over and over and over again for us to recount our experiences of personal violence and trauma, to be forced to perform our grief and our devastation over and over again for the public when nothing fundamentally changes. Because this requirement that we threw our humanity over and over again by talking about our grief and our pain and our violence continues to exist, while the conditions giving rise to the fact that Muslims humanity became something that was put into question and needed to be proven in the first place remain unchanged. And so even now, when we're supposedly having this conversation about Islamophobia, we're still primarily focussing on hate crimes and interpersonal instances of violence. We're not talking about the fact that we have a war on terror that has killed as many as two million Muslims in three countries alone in the first decade of the war on terror alone. So that's the devaluation of Muslim life has been the entire premise of this war on terror. We're still not talking about the fact that we have Canadian government officials who have been complicit in the torture of Muslims. And not only have they not been punished, many of them were actually promoted or received awards. While the Canadian government continues to spend two million dollars per year fighting the claims for compensation for the survivors. We're not talking about the fact that the liberal and conservative parties alike, voted for a law called the Zero Tolerance Barbaric Cultural Practises Act, a law effectively labelling Muslims as barbaric. And so when we think about the conditions that give rise to hatred against Muslims, it's not just the extremist discourse of white supremacist parties. And it's not just individual acts of hate occurring against against Muslims on the street. It's the systemic, structural, state sponsored devaluation of Muslim life that ensures that the killing and torture of Muslims persists and that there is no justice for it in this country.

MG: What is the effect of that, that larger constant devaluation, as you describe it, on you individually? I mean, it sounds exhausting in some ways. And I do really. Again, I appreciate all three of you coming on to talk about your own personal experiences. But to your point, there's a weight that comes with that, right?

AZEEZAH KANJI: There's certainly a weight that comes with that, and it's not only the weight of this perpetual violence against Muslims, but it's the weight of the perpetual denialism about violence against Muslims. So that even in the wake of the Quebec mosque shooting, when six Muslim men were gunned down in cold blood after being in prayer at a mosque, even in the wake of this overt act of hatred against Muslims, it still took the federal government four years to even make a tokenistic declaration of January 29th, the anniversary of that attack, as a day of remembrance and action on Islamophobia. And so the devaluation of Muslim life is is manifest not only in these policies that continue to kill and torture and surveil and harass Muslims. And I've just mentioned some of the things that have been happening in Canada. But we also cannot forget the Yemeni women, men and children who are being slaughtered, enabled by Canadian arms [unintelligible] to the Palestinian women, children and men who were slaughtered in the eyes of the whole, in front of the eyes of the whole world, while the Canadian government continues to officially oppose an International Criminal Court investigation into war crimes and crimes against humanity against Palestinians. It's this perpetual silencing and invisible ization of this global structure of violence against Muslims that continues to ensure that not only violence against Muslims persists, but that we can't even talk about it, that there has been so much opposition to even just using the term Islamophobia in public.

MG: Areej, in your life on campus, do you feel supported in your community? Do you feel supported in your city? I know that you're one of the very, very few female Muslim students within your engineering and business program at Western. So do you feel supported there?

AREEJ ANSARI: Honestly, I would say in all reality, no. And I can break it down as to why I think a lot of people, and especially at Western, I made it very clear that Muslims need to pray five times a day, right. So due to this, I've gone to like, higher ups and been like we only have one prayer space in UCC, which is our community centre, and it's always over, like it's always over capacity because of the amount of people who need to use it. It's not accessible. There is no that door for anyone in a wheelchair to automatically open up and everything. And we have gone multiple times over the past. I'm going into my fourth year now, so it's been four years in me advocating for another space and under the guise of a multifaith, even a quiet space. And we haven't gotten anything because we want to take our concerns seriously. If the community wants us to feel safe, especially within London. And especially at Western, they need to take our concerns seriously and provide us the opportunity for us to practise their religion freely without imposing on us and making us feel bad about it. And then as well as not to just brush us off every time we do ask for the space, because if we can give- and this goes for workplaces, too, if you can give your employees smoke breaks, then you should be able to give them time to pray as well as and as well as the location. It doesn't really take much, but the amount of pushback I've gotten in terms of getting a prayer space, it's actually like it's I, I don't know whether out of the situation things are going to change, but I really do hope the university takes our concerns seriously because it's not a matter of something being optional. This is about who we are, our identity. We should be able to practise their religion freely.

MG: Wati, I know that you helped create a support system. You mentioned what was happening to Muslim women in Edmonton and the attacks on women there. Tell me just briefly about sisters dialogue and what that did for women like yourself.

WATI RAHMAT: Yeah, so Sisters Dialogue was initially just a pop up initiative, we we saw the conversation around when the attacks happened to our sisters here in Edmonton, how the conversation was just about safety and self-defence. But there was no conversation about mental health and victim support. And we as women, Muslim women, thought that, you know, we want to reframe that narrative and we organise a panel discussion and it's gone on to become an initiative that is so women centred and what we call anti-oppressive and with an intersectional lens that support women from diverse backgrounds, whether Muslim or from other communities. And at this time, where, you know, whatever it is that's happening, it's happening to a lot of our communities. And this is dialogue, we have this framework where we do a lot of intercommunity dialogue, whether it's with the indigenous community, the black or Asian community, because we're all hurting and we just need to come together and not work in silos because we have a common enemy, which is hate. And and to Azeezah's comment, you know, yes, there's been in the wider sense, you know, like we all have our personal grief and the collective grief as Muslims. But it's also that sense of like our humanity is less is always there, you know, whether in the world stage and that when when the Muslim life is lost, that it's less of humanity is not as. As important as someone else and a lot of it has to do with policies and what our leaders do, you know.

MG: To that point Azeezah, I mean, what would you like to see? What specific actions do you want to see taken to address this? Because we've seen I mean, in the wake of this attack, politicians of all stripes have come out and they say we support the Muslim community. We stand with the Muslim community. What do you want to see in terms of action behind those words?

AZEEZAH KANJI: Many of the same politicians who have been deeply implicated in perpetuating the very same policies that are the well, from which individuals private Islamophobia springs from. I think it is so vital that we begin our conversation by understanding the connections between the type of hate that we saw manifest in its most violent form on the streets of London with this whole broader constellation of laws and policies and practises that are not only premised upon, but actually profit from the devaluation and demonisation of Muslim life. Because unless we start with that conversation, we end up thinking that the very same counterterrorism apparatus, the very same policing apparatus, that is the very source of systemic racism, we end up thinking that this is the solution to systemic racism and to systemic Islamophobia, and that is extremely dangerous.

MG: Are you confident that those politicians will address this? I mean, there were speeches in the House of Commons yesterday, but none of the politicians, for example, would directly address Bill 21 in Quebec, which has been the source of great debate, consternation within Muslim communities and beyond for what it limits people their ability to do. Are you confident that politicians will take the steps that you're calling for?

AZEEZAH KANJI: I think if there is any trend that we see in Canada and we know this from the experiences of our Indigenous sisters and brothers and from our black sisters and brothers as well, if there is any trend in Canada, there is there is no more visible trend than the fact that Canadian politicians are very fond of proclaiming their multiculturalism, of performing their anti-racism in ways that are the most superficial ways possible. So when we look at previous efforts supposedly to address Islamophobia, for example, the M 103 report on systemic racism and Islamophobia that was convened in the wake of the Quebec mosque shooting, there is nothing in that entire report about any of these laws and policies underlying systemic Islamophobia that we've talked about. Instead, they decided to spend more time debating whether Islamophobia was even the appropriate term to be using. And so even in these forums, when we're supposedly dedicated to addressing Islamophobia, even in the wake of a massacre of Muslims in a mosque, we are still not permitted to talk about what the real source of the problem is here. And so I'm not confident unless we maintain Canadian pressure in the days and weeks and months and years to come to actually address the source of the problem.

MG: Areej, I apologize. We just have a few seconds left. But are you confident in the wake of what's happened in your city that you'll see change?

AREEJ ANSARI: I'm confident the Muslim community, I'm not confident the politicians doing much. I am confident and I guess my peers and the people around me, especially those who aren't Muslim at Western, hopefully help and stand with the Muslim community in getting the change that we deserve. But again, everything's up in the air because a lot of things are done performatively. So at this point, I'm hopeful, but I don't know for sure.

MG: This is a difficult moment and I know it's difficult to talk about, but it's really important as well. And I really appreciate all three of you joining us this morning. Thank you very much.

AZEEZAH KANJI: Thank you.

AREEJ ANSARI: Thank you.

MG: Areej Ansari, a fourth year student at Western University in London, Ontario. Wati Rahmat is a community activist in Edmonton. Azeezah Kanji is a legal academic who studies systemic Islamophobia. She was in Toronto. This is The Current on CBC Radio One. My name is Matt Galloway. We're back in six minutes. Stay with us.

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Report shows huge spike in toxic drug deaths among First Nations people in B.C.

Guests: Shannon McDonald, Karin Marley

MG: Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway, and you're listening to The Current.

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MG: Still to come, calling it cat calling in the construction industry, the podcast has sparked a conversation about sexism and sexual harassment on the job site. We'll speak with women who say it's time for change. But first, the medical crisis that has gone from bad to worse during this pandemic and it has nothing to do with a virus.

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MG: It has been five years since British Columbia declared the opioid crisis a public health emergency and the number of lives lost has only continued to rise since then. Now the First Nations Health Authority has released a report showing the dramatic impact toxic drugs are having on the communities they serve. Dr. Shannon McDonald is acting chief medical officer for the First Nations Health Authority. We have reached her this morning on the state first nation. Doctor, good morning.

DR. SHANNON MCDONALD: Good morning, Matt.

MG: Tell me more about what your report found when it came to the impact of toxic drugs like opioids over the past year on First Nations people in British Columbia.

DR.SHANNON MCDONALD: It was a very difficult report to release because we were telling people that 254 First Nations individuals had lost their lives in B.C. to a toxic drug supply. That was a significant increase over last year, where we only had 100 only. It's still large numbers, but had 116. So we've seen a significant increase. And considering that First Nations people are only a little over three percent of the population. We had 14.7 percent of all the opioid related deaths in B.C. last year were First Nations people.

MG: I want to talk about why that might be the case, but we know that public health harm reduction measures have been in place to try to reduce the numbers of deaths, particularly around indigenous people, since this opioid crisis was declared a health emergency. How effective have those measures being, do you think?

DR.SHANNON MCDONALD: Not effective enough, apparently. We have been very active in this space for the five years since the emergency was declared. But since that time, the covid emergency has layered over top of this. And one of the things that it did was restrict the importation of opioids, street level opioids, from other nations, and that resulted in a lot of people cooking their own. So the drug supply right now is particularly toxic, highly contaminated with fentanyl, carfentanyl. And now we're starting to see high level benzodiazepines in the drug supply. And it's very, very difficult to bring somebody back with naloxone or whatever other means you might have, because those recovery drugs are not effective against those benzodiazepines.

MG: We have seen this change over the course of the pandemic in that toxic drug supply and how it's affecting people across the country. How specifically is that affecting people? I mean, what's different in terms of how it would be impacting First Nations communities compared to other communities in this country?

DR.SHANNON MCDONALD: I think there's a few things that that have really been shown in that people are dying alone. Covid has forced people into isolation. The message that I as a public health physician, have been giving to people is stay away. Don't hang out with your friends. And in the circumstance of using toxic drugs like there is right now in the community, it means that if people do overdose, they overdose alone, that many people leave their community to have better access to street drugs, but that at the beginning of the covid emergency, a lot of health support shut down. Supervised consumption sites, for example, weren't providing the same number of hours or we're limiting the number of people that were coming into the centre at a particular time and people were actually overdosing in line, waiting outside to use the overdose prevention site. So we've seen a lot of circumstances over the year that have added to the problem. And many First Nations people who have suffered significant trauma, this is their doorway to some comfort. However inappropriate some of us may feel it is, it's still a really challenging situation for people who have opioid use disorders or other substance use disorders.

MG: I want to ask you about that trauma. This report was released in the same week that the preliminary information came out around the remains of some two hundred and fifteen children on the site of the former residential school in Kamloops. How is your organisation, the First Nations health authorities, supporting that community and First Nations communities in B.C. in this has been a really difficult week? And so what is the work that you're doing to address and address that in this moment?

DR.SHANNON MCDONALD: On a two sides of the coin, on one working with the community to prepare for the absolute onslaught of support of humanity, of survivors who want to be there to participate in ceremony and in the context, again, of covid, how do we do that as safely as possible? The community had only had one dose of covid so far. They were due to have their second clinics very soon. There was active covid detected in the community and in surrounding communities. So we're really concerned about people gathering, but at the same time saying, well, your mental health, your spiritual health and your need for cultural support is absolutely significant in this period of time and far be it for me to tell you what is the higher risk for you. So working with the community to provide masks, to have lots of hand sanitiser around that kind of thing on the Cauvin side. On the other side is that mental and spiritual health, peace. So we have had support funded by First Nations health authority, but provided by the Indian residential school Survivor Society, the Kwassa Crisis Line, an organisation called Sultan Whalum who provide trauma supports. So we're trying as much as possible to make those supports easily accessible. The other thing that we definitely know is that this is only the beginning. This has. Encouraged other nations to be more proactive about making sure that their children are identified and the residential schools is one hundred and thirty nine of them across the country, that all of those residential schools will have a similar ability to identify children that are buried on the grounds. So this is the beginning of a lot of work going forward and absolutely listening to communities about what it is they need and doing our best to provide them.

MG: I want to play you something from the grand chief, Doug Kelly. This is from 2017. He was speaking at a press conference after new data was released about the impact the opioid crisis was having on indigenous communities in your province. Take a listen to this.

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Alcoholism was here long before the current issue of opioid use. And adult suicide, here long before the current crisis. All of those issues have similar causes. It's unresolved trauma, unresolved grief in our way. What my respected elders and my teachers have taught me is that sometimes physical pain is actually a spiritual pain.

MG: Dr. McDonald, what do you make of what Grand Chief Kelly is saying there about trauma and spiritual pain? In many ways, it goes back to to what you were saying earlier.

DR.SHANNON MCDONALD: Absolutely. And Greg Kelly and I spent a lot of time together over the last few years, and I have great respect for his voice and his experience and his knowledge. I think we have to listen. We are in a country that left residential schools and the consequences of them in the shadows for a very, very long time, and it's time to bring that into the light and really listen to the people who are saying to us, we knew, we knew all along and nobody listened. So now we are in the time of, OK, are people ready to listen? Let's move forward.

MG: And in the context of the opioid crisis, I mean, why is it important to talk about about spiritual or emotional pain, about intergenerational trauma, if you're speaking about an overdose crisis that's unfolding right now in communities across this country?

DR.SHANNON MCDONALD: Well, there is work that we can do to to prevent people who overdose from dying, who keep people safe while they're using, but what we don't do as well and what we need really need to work on is is supporting people on their healing journeys, helping people to understand the trauma that has happened in their lives and the lives of their family, their parents, their grandparents, and understanding how that has impacted on them. And without that support to do that work, it's going to be very, very difficult for people to move forward. So it's absolutely essential that as individuals and as communities, there's work done Towards Healing.

MG: What are some of the specific things in the report in terms of recommendations about where to go from here, things that could be implemented to help stop these deaths?

DR.SHANNON MCDONALD: Well, I think we there there are a few things we know that the work that we're doing around cultural safety and humility in health care service delivery, in mental health support is absolutely essential. It's not just the people who have experienced these traumas, but everybody else that really needs to understand the power of that trauma and the people they're treating. We need to talk about racism in the health care system. I hear all the time about people who have no trust, no faith in the system that they will not be taking care of when they go in a way that's respectful and that honours their experience. The conversations about that intergenerational trauma and understanding all of the elements of people's lives, education, employment, poverty, all of those things are related to that intergenerational trauma. And we need to understand that as a system. And I think we need to look at this in the broader picture about how do we support people on their healing journey? How do we admit there's a lot we don't know and just listen.

MG: Is that what you mean when you talk about not just cultural safety, but also humility? I mean, the issue of trust goes back to where we saw that play out last week in Quebec with the story of tourist attraction. And when speaking with members of her family and her community who felt as though they couldn't go, they wouldn't go, to the hospital where Joyce Echequan died because they don't trust the system. What's the role of humility in helping to rebuild that trust?

DR.SHANNON MCDONALD: As a society, as physicians, as health care providers, we need to admit there's things we don't know, we don't even know what we don't know. And the the assumptions we make about what's the right thing for people who come into our care could be absolutely incorrect. And we need to be able to say to people, no matter what the circumstance is, when they enter into a health care system or they seek mental health services, asking what happened to you, not what's wrong with you, because there's all kinds of laden assumptions in that, but what happened to you. And then really being open to understanding that it may not be my experience that they're coming to me with, but that we can openly and honestly say, I didn't know that. I didn't understand that to be the case and what can I do to help?

MG: I recently spoke with Dr. Esther Tailfeathers. She's a family physician on the Blood Tribe reserve in Alberta and somebody who's doing amazing work, as you would well know, in her community around harm reduction. Take a listen to to what she said about how they have tried to create culturally specific approach to harm reduction.

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Initially trying to save lives with our number one priority. And so once we got going with harm reduction and recognise that actually harm reduction is part of our traditional belief system or value system where we [Indiginous speech] means helping others who are in crisis. Our community, as well as every indigenous community across the country, has been hit by trauma, poverty and racism. And it's all in historical national policy. So we need to change this narrative and paradigm that we hear from others and that we see in ourselves. We need to change this to a strength based approach. And what I say is, if we stand alone, we perish. If we stand together, we will get through this.

MG: What do you take from what she's doing and that that idea of working together to create something for a collective group of people?

DR. SHANNON MCDONALD: We're very lucky as the First Nations health authority in that that's our mandate. This is our work we work for and with the communities, not for a government system or another system. Even though we partner with all of those systems, we have a very different view of the world doing for people not so good is doing with or supporting people to do for themselves. It's a very different way of working and it's an absolute pleasure as a health care provider to see people step forward, to hear Chief Kelly, to hear Esther and the work that she's doing in partnership, full partnership with communities on how we move forward and what really listening to what they need to be able to do, the work that needs to get done.

MG: Let me just and sort of where I started, which is in saying that it's been five years since BC declared the opioid crisis a public health emergency. I'm not sure what was expected when that declaration was made, but as I say, the numbers of lives lost have gone up. You're right there on the front lines. What is it like for you to watch that? How do you how do you cope with what's happened in the last five years?

DR. SHANNON MCDONALD: Last year, we saw a decrease. We really were confident that the the four pillars of response that we had put in 2016 were working. And then the unexpected happened with covid. And we have lost almost twice as many people to the toxic drug supply as we have to covid. It's tragic, absolutely tragic. And I hear all the time that communities feel helpless in the context of the drug supply. There are lots of solutions that that they've tried. They've tried to kick out drug dealers only to find that nature abhors a vacuum. And where there isn't a drug supplier in the community, one day there will be the next day that we're seeing, in some places, communities come together to heal and in other communities, they're still struggling in the trauma. And everything else we've gone through in the last 16, 17 months has just added to it, so we need to, again acknowledge the trauma and ask what it is they need to to move forward and how do we work with them on that.

MG: Are you optimistic about that? Are you optimistic that there is a brighter path forward?

DR. SHANNON MCDONALD: I certainly hope so. You know, coming to closer to the end of my career, I this is not where I thought we'd be. I had been naive and hopeful that this would be an easy journey and it's not. And just as our common cases were coming down and second doses were out in the community and we thought we'd be able to breathe, the story from Kamloops broke. So the work doesn't end, but the number of people that are healing and getting engaged in the process has steadily increased. And I'm hopeful that that's where the real change will be made.

MG: Dr. McDonald, it's a great pleasure to talk to you. Thank you very much.

DR. SHANNON MCDONALD: Thank you.

MG: Dr. Shannon McDonald is acting chief medical officer for the First Nations Health Authority.

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MG: You're listening to The Current on CBC Radio One. My name is Matt Galloway. Earlier this week, I spoke with Amanda Bates. She is Canada Research Chair and Marine Physiological Ecology, and she painted a picture for us of a natural world that has been affected by covid, but will still be even more affected by the choices we make now as a species, how we decide to value and protect our environment going forward. Many of you have re-evaluated your own relationship with nature during this pandemic, and you wrote in to tell us all about it. Here to help me go through the currents inbox is the program's senior producer, Karin Marley. Karen, good morning.

KARIN MARLEY: Good morning. Yeah, a lot more people out in nature during the pandemic from what we're hearing anyway, me included. This first letter is from John Hastings in Ontario. He writes: We move to Grey Highlands from downtown Toronto at the advent of the pandemic. Coincidental, not a reaction to the circumstances. In Toronto, our connexion to wildlife was defending our garbage and sockets from raccoons and squirrels. Here, it's a goal to create space that supports and attracts wildlife. It's come to feel like a duty or an investment, maybe a privilege. It's made us feel differently connected and changed our perspective. Proof is watching birds at the feeder from my home office window with complete fascination. It has been an amazing distraction and a point of small talk conversation with clients and colleagues. That isn't Case Counts or

MG: Marie Eve Trigg in Squamish BC has also noticed a lot more people on the trails these days, she writes: For as long as I can remember, I've always felt good in the outdoors from my childhood backyard and a Quebec suburb to camping with friends or out daily on our local trails here in Squamish. One of the many reasons why I felt so good in nature was the alone feeling, the beauty, the quiet and the peace. Our town is growing fast, and when so many people walked out of their gyms and looked up to the forest as a healthy alternative, I thought for a moment that it was about time they see the value that lies in what surrounds us. But I do have to admit that I have struggled with the increase in trail users in the last year. That extra traffic started stressing me out and what used to be a haven for me became a source of anxiety. And some might think this is selfish or maybe they'll relate to it. Nature is for all humans to enjoy, love and respect and steward, but with a fast growing population in times like these, I grieve what it used to be and how it used to make me feel.

KARIN MARLEY: This next one is from Sylvia Dakin in Comox Valley, B.C. She says: My happy place is in nature, either walking in the woods, swimming in our rivers, an ocean kayaking or cross-country skiing in the mountains. But for many years now, it is almost impossible to get away from human activity, especially noise. TV commercials are really pushing getting into nature to sell big trucks and motorised vehicles. It's a noise pandemic that stresses me out completely. So I cannot imagine how all of this affects animals, birds, fish and vegetation.

MG: Kelly in Alberta is trying to welcome the newcomers to the trails. She says: I spend a lot of time in the Rocky Mountains in Alberta. I'm a guide and an outdoor educator. And I started my company because I noticed a few older women out on the hiking trails. Essentially, they were missing the benefits of distressing in nature that others were getting during the pandemic. To help get women outdoors, I teach courses for nature newbies to learn about packs, equipment, bear safety and leave no trace. I've noticed during the pandemic that there are more people in parks, which is meant more wildlife encounters and city people in wilderness areas where they don't know how to be there in a responsible way that protects the environment. I try to educate when I'm on the trail.

KARIN MARLEY: Hiking in the trails in Alberta sounds amazing, right about now.

MG: It is to dream soon enough, perhaps, we can get out there.

KARIN MARLEY: Indeed.

MG: Karin, thank you very much.

KARIN MARLEY: You're welcome.

MG: Karin Marley, senior producer of The Current. And thank you all for taking time to write to us. We read every single thing that you send us and some of your letters ends up on the radio. So please get in touch. You can reach us thecurrent@cbc.ca If you want to weigh in on anything you hear on this programme. Well, coming up after your regional update.

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There's a stereotype about people who work in construction that somehow they're more apt to do this kind of harassment, which isn't true. What are they saying? That is just a part of your jobs? You're supposed to do that kind of behaviour? I don't think so.

MG: Catcalls might be a cliche when it comes to the construction industry, but remarks made on a Toronto podcast have some saying enough is enough. More on that in 90 seconds. I'm Matt Galloway and you're listening to The Current.

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Sexism in the construction industry

Guests: Shawna Henderson, Kendall Ansell, Leonard Menon

MG: Hi, I'm Matt Galloway, you're listening to The Current.

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VOICE 1: If you see a sexy woman on the street when we were 20 years old, you whistle today, you even look at them. You've got the cops behind you. They're charging you.

VOICE 2: That's the worst.

VOICE 1: I'd try to put my hand a little bit. Try to reach.

VOICE 2: [Laughs].

MG: When carpenter Natasha Fritz heard those words on the Construction Life podcast, she reached out to the hosts. She wanted to talk directly with them about sexual harassment in the industry and why it is no laughing matter. She took to social media saying: These are the types of conversations that are keeping our industry stuck in the past. For a time, she faced a 15 million dollar defamation lawsuit for those posts. That lawsuit has now been dropped, but the issues remain. Just a few months ago, some construction workers in Ontario were fired after video emerged of an onsite retirement party with a stripper. Women who work in construction say the sexism in their industry needs to change. Shawna Henderson is founder and CEO of Bfreehomes Design and Blue House Energy in Nova Scotia. Kendall Ansell is the owner of Belle Construction in Vancouver. Good morning to you both.

GUESTS: Good morning.

MG: Shawna, let me just ask you about Natasha's comments there. Do you think that your industry is stuck in the past?

SHAWNA HENDERSON: Oh, yeah.

MG: That's pretty blunt. Tell me more about that. I mean, and why you would say that.

SHAWNA HENDERSON: Well, we've got, well, I've been in the industry for 30 years, I've been on construction sites in the residential world, probably, you know, maybe between three and five thousand over the years. I was a and a guide for houses evaluator and have 2000 site inspectors for many years. And the same thing that I was complaining about and noticing 30 years ago, I'm hearing from young women who are starting out in the construction trades. You know, we have a higher preponderance, a higher proportion of young women who are going into trades colleges, which is great, but the attrition rate for them is really high. So two to five years, once they're out of school, two to five years out in the workforce, they tend to disappear because of the harassment and and toxic work cultures. And so what happens is that we are stuck at this place where we have four to 10 percent representation of women in the trades workforce actually on job sites. We've been stuck there for over a decade.

MG: What were some of the comments in your time on the construction sites? What were some of the comments that you heard?

SHAWNA HENDERSON: There's a whole raft of them that I can't say on the radio.

MG: And the ones that you can say on the radio?

SHAWNA HENDERSON: Well, you know, questions about what are you doing here? My skill sets were constantly challenged. I worked for a man who was very, you know, did some great things for me, including, you know, when someone was asking him about my work, about the results of my work, he would say, I don't know, ask Shawna. But through school and through working on the site, I really had to show that I had 120 percent grasp of the concept where my male colleagues coasted along at 70-is percent.

MG: Kendall, does that sound familiar?

KENDALL ANSELL: I've heard these stories before. Yes, yes, it does.

MG: Have you faced or your crew faced those sorts of comments on site?

KENDALL ANSELL: Yeah, I wouldn't say that hours have been as extreme as some stories that we have heard. I mean, our day to day always involves some sort of mansplaining, the questioning, the credentials of my workers, making sure that they know what they're doing while they're doing things. Those are those are kind of the day to day for us, but definitely anything to do with catcalling. And, you know, some of the incredibly inappropriate things that we have heard stories of have not happened to our crew.

MG: Shawna, you mentioned the attrition rate. I mean, is that why you think women are leaving the industry and leaving the trades trades, which, I mean, are great to have a range of people in, which is a great work, lucrative work as well. But you feel as though they're being forced out because of the environment that they're working in.

SHAWNA HENDERSON: That's part of it, part of mainstream construction isn't set up for somebody who needs to also deal with child care, you know, a family emergency if you need to be on site. And that's a disservice to men who are parents as well. It's not just women, but. Yeah, I mean, like the fact that you go to work and every day in a lot of shops, your trash talked, you, you know, it's really just not good for your mental health. It's a workplace. You should be OK to be there without having to fend off shitty comments or, you know, people considering your body and whatever you're wearing open for comments like that doesn't happen is not- that class of sexual harassment, you know, all sorts of other workplaces, why not in the construction industry? You know, we don't need to fit in and be one of the boys. The boys need to maybe do a little bit of change.

MG: Kendall, you mentioned catcalling. Why is it that you don't think you hear as much of that on your job? Perhaps it becomes a bit of a stereotype or a cliche, but why is that not happening?

KENDALL ANSELL: Yeah, our sites are residential renovations. So our sites, our neighbourhoods, they're not large construction sites like that is often found around Vancouver. And I think that's just the environment that we've chosen, the avenue we've chosen to work in. Whereas I hear I do hear the stories of the cat calling on on more on larger sites, not necessarily on more intimate groups.

MG: Shawna mentions the restrictions around. I mean, your construction starts early. You need to be on site pretty tight clock. Tell me about what you did in creating your company to offer women who work for you an environment that would work for them.

KENDALL ANSELL: That's right. So the goal when we started Belle was to create a more flexible working environment so that we could attract amazing women employees. And one of those things being that we are flexible with start time so that children are able to be dropped off at school. And what we even find is that, you know, that only happens part time. It's not an everyday thing. And then also, you know, creating a safe work environment where there is zero tolerance for any sort of harassment or or anything like that within our team and also creating an experience where the client feels comfortable having that trait in their home. I've worked in the industry for over 17, 18 years, and what I have found is that some some trades are not comfortable, the family is not comfortable to have some trades work in their home. And what we wanted was that every member of our team was welcomed and, you know, made the family feel comfortable to do their day to day activities while they work in their home.

MG: Why don't more companies, do you think, have those policies? I mean, one is the zero tolerance for any sort of harassment that seems the easiest thing in some ways, but it's not clearly implemented, but also that idea of being more flexible. Why do you think more companies have that approach?

KENDALL ANSELL: I'm not sure. I mean, obviously, we know that this all starts from the leadership from the top. I think the mentality of the construction industry is behind in the past. You know, it needs to catch up to where we are in 2021. And I do see the change happening slowly here in Vancouver. But but it definitely takes companies like us to be talking about it and and in educating people that there is no tolerance for harassment it's a zero.

MG: What sort of change have you seen, Shawna, in the time that you've been in the industry?

SHAWNA HENDERSON: What kind of change?

MG: So, yeah, what kind of change has there been?

SHAWNA HENDERSON: Well, I think I'm seeing and I just was on Kendall's site and I'm really excited to cyber-meet you, and I think that we should talk about this a lot more off air. But there's I think that for me, I see that what we need is women owners, women carpenters, et cetera, who are in charge and who can make the decisions to change culture. And so I do see some of that happening. I mean, I'm involved in many different working committees across the country at a national level on energy efficiency and sustainability and retrofits, etc. And there's a lot more women who are showing up, which is really nice because for many, many years I was the only woman in the room. And so being able to see that there are more women who are at the table and then more women, you know, like Kendall, who are bringing their own table and chairs and saying this is where we want to sit. And I think that's really what has to happen is we have to to create major shifts in who's running the show and how we perceive the construction industry, because it does a great disservice to young men and women in general, but especially young men, because how it's working now is that basically you get chewed up and spit out at the age of 35 with a broken body because you've been told that you must be strong enough to do all these things.

MG: What do you say to young women who want to enter the trade? Given what we've been talking about, Shawna, they might have concerns. They might hear stories like this and say, well, no, this is not for me. So what do you say to them about why this is something they should consider? Well.

SHAWNA HENDERSON: When I was in school in the 1970s, I wasn't allowed to take carpentry and shop. So there's a big change there. And what I think is that when you there and there's some really interesting and supportive organisations out there that are working with young women and for young women who want to be in the trades, I think that getting involved with those groups and having a support group behind you as you go through school and into the trade will be helpful in terms of being able to make a network to be able to help, to go change. And also there are on social media, Facebook, there are some very excellent and supportive forums for women in trades, and that's a really great way to get your questions answered about what trades are like.

MG: Kendall, what do you think the big construction companies could learn from you given what you're doing and the change you're trying to make in your work?

KENDALL ANSELL: I think, you know, obviously putting women at the top and and and having working with women to create new policies for larger companies, I think is really important. And I think, you know, my goal with Bell is always to I'm trying to change the dialogue of construction. So, you know, it is and that men are coming to do work on a job site. It should be a person is coming to do work on a job site. So I think, again, changing the policy and how you're speaking about your business is a really great way to start again from the top down to to educate yourself and the people around you that this this can be a gender neutral environment.

MG: And just briefly, I mean, is your sense that the industry wants to see real change and inclusion, that it wants to be an industry that works for everyone?

SHAWNA HENDERSON: I find that's kind of a mixed bag. There are people who want to see the change and people who do not. But I don't think they have a choice now in 2021. I think, you know, it's knocking at the door. So either get on or get off the train.

MG: You're the one who are knocking at the door. Both of you. It's great to talk to you both. Thank you very much.

KENDALL ANSELL: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

MG: Kendall Ansell is the owner of Belle Construction in Vancouver. Shawna Henderson, the founder and CEO of Bfreehomes Design and Blue House Energy in Nova Scotia. You're listening to The Current on CBC Radio One. My name is Matt Galloway convocations have been cancelled or scaled back for another year. And so with that in mind, tomorrow we are going to pay tribute to graduating students with our own ceremony. You will hear from students across this country about their achievements and their plans for the future. And one of those students, one of this year's grads is Leonard Menon from the University of Lethbridge, graduating with a Bachelor of music majoring in digital audio arts, starting his master's in sound recording at McGill in the fall. Leonard, good morning.

LEONARD MENON: Hey, how are you doing?

MG: Congratulations.

LEONARD MENON: Thank you very much. I really appreciate that.

MG: Tell me about your path. Often people will take different paths to get to that finish line. You didn't have a typical path after high school. Tell me what happened.

LEONARD MENON: I didn't really have any intentions of taking up any post-secondary education. I actually just went straight into the workforce because I had this idea in my head that I wanted to be a performer. You know, like I was involved in several bands when I was growing up in high school. And, you know, after that, we kind of kept those things going, performing probably at least once a month. Yeah. Eventually, we started recording. In some cases that would be we would be recording in someone's basement. There was one instance where we actually went to a recording studio in Vancouver, but I just kind of got interested in what was going on behind the scenes in the recording process, spending so much time around, people who had that ability to record a band live off the floor and make them sound, you know, relatively accurate, I just found quite fascinating.

MG: That's an incredibly important part of music. I mean, we'll often focus on the people who are out on stage. But if you like music and you listen to music, it's the folks behind the scenes who are making that music possible in many ways.

LEONARD MENON: Exactly. Yeah. There's a there's a quote my prof said once and she said that producers are more consistent than the artist. And I've thought about that quite a bit.

MG: As part of all of the work that you've been doing. Tell me about these these headphones that you created.

LEONARD MENON: Yeah. So imagine if you put on headphones and you could still hear your entire environment very accurately. It was accurate enough that you could localise things for those that don't know what localised means. Imagine yourself in a dog park. You can hear dog barking. We know where that dog is with pretty good precision, without any visuals. And how these traditional headphones work that musicians normally use in the studio is that the musician would get a copy of all of the instruments on the song that are being recorded with a click track. Musicians use this to assure that they're aiming for the exact beats every single time and nothing moves. Everything is completely static. Like as a musician who's currently recording the song, it is kind of like you're listening to someone else's song. Now, with the headphones that I built while the musicians are playing, you can, you know, walk in circles around your musician friends. You can do backflips, you can even tire shoe and everything will sound like you're not wearing the headphones. You will still be able to localise everything in that room, just as you can localise a dog barking in a dog park. You know, the only thing is you have these headphones on. So now let's just say that your musician friends would like to play a song, but they need a quick trick to keep a consistent tempo.

MG: So they're not speeding up and slowing down.

LEONARD MENON: Exactly. And they're all in the pocket all the time for the same kind of beep. So with the headphones that I made, I can add the click track, but the click track will remain in the exact same place in the headphones regardless of how much you move. And I found that this allows the musician to have a more immersive, realistic and sometimes even a more intimate performance with both their instruments and whoever they're performing with. It's just become more of a visceral experience for them, you know, not feeling like they're listening to someone else's music.

MG: You created these as part of a class project. What are they going to be commercially available?

LEONARD MENON: I'm working on some further research with them. There's a workshop that's taking place in Victoria that I've been invited to further this research at with some of the students from the University of Lethbridge, as well as the students from music. And at this workshop, I'll be actually testing these headphones with orchestra conductors. And it's just kind of a unique scenario because, you know, in previous studies, they found that orchestral conductors oftentimes will have to, you know, remove an ear cup, which I'm sure both of us have done in the past to try and hear what's going on and monitor the real situation. They mentioned that, you know, headphones are really uncomfortable, not giving them the complete full picture, which is, again, super important for conductors. So we're going to test these headphones in that scenario to see if it's a better option for conductors in the future.

MG: Do you grow up in a musical household? I mean, where did your love of music come from?

LEONARD MENON: Yeah, yeah, I grew up in a relatively musical household, you know, music was always kind of playing. I think one of my some of my oldest memories are just kind of listening to cassettes on one of those little like a cassette boom box type deal where you can sing into the- out of the speaker while you listen to your favourite tracks. Yeah, yeah. Just growing up listening to, like, Friday night blues on like [unintelligible] and stuff with my with my with my parents, yeah.

MG: And in addition to all of the things that you're doing, I mean whether it's creating these headphones is part of this class project or getting into engineering. You're also teaching guitar.

LEONARD MENON: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I teach guitar and ukulele and music theory and currently have 20 students right now.

MG: How do you balance school with 20 students

LEONARD MENON: When you say it like that, it sounds... It's a little bit tricky. Obviously, the lesson planning is the one that takes up quite a bit of my time. But like I still learn when I am doing this lesson, planning what I'm teaching them, it's a very rewarding challenge. It's easy to spend time doing it.

MG: In addition to all of that, as somebody who was not initially going to go into post-secondary education, you're getting set to to move to McGill and start your masters. What are you looking forward to when it comes to that?

LEONARD MENON: Oh, I'm just looking forward to all of the invaluable guidance I'll be able to receive from some of the pros at McGill. You know, they're known worldwide, especially this programme in particular, and just kind of the Montreal life. Like I was on tour in Montreal once. You know, you go see a show in like a small pub and you have a poutine. But I'm excited to actually live there. It'll be a fun and interesting cultural exchange there.

MG: In 10 years time. Where do you want to be?

LEONARD MENON: Hmm... Either working in a studio or working in audio tech, in development, like R&D, maybe.

MG: Like inventing the next thing?

LEONARD MENON: Exactly. Yeah. Working for like a tech company or like a mid-sized studio.

MG: You're going to play a song for the class of 2021. What are you going to play?

LEONARD MENON: Yeah, I wanted to pick a piece that kind of harmonically at least reflects my own experience and possibly many of the other grads I chose to transcribe as Clair de Lune for the guitar. I did it for the electric guitar. So the song kind of begins so with some, you know, cautious optimism, which I think is where we were all kind of at. You know, when we found out a possible pandemic might be happening, the chords become a bit richer. You know, there's a new weight in this isolated life and something that that was something that I was definitely unprepared for. And then after that, there's a frantic race to the finish and the piece runs off with just kind of crossing the finish line. And it almost feels like I just kind of feel like I'm floating when I when I listen to that section of the song.

MG: And is how you feel like now hitting that finish line that you're floating?

LEONARD MENON: Yeah. Yeah. Floating still, still kind of working a little bit. I'm trying to get my relaxation game where it should be, but yeah, I feel like I'm floating every now and then.

MG: Congratulations. I look forward to the records that you are going to produce that we will listen to in years to come and the technology that you might invent as well. In the meantime, you have a bright future ahead of you. Leonard, thank you so much.

LEONARD MENON: And thank you so much. Leonard Meenan graduating with a Bachelor of music from the University of Lethbridge. He will start a Masters in sound recording at McGill in the fall. Here he is. His rendition of Claire de Lune performed on the electric guitar.

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[Music]

MG: It's lovely. New grad Leonard Menin and his version of Clair de Lune. Join us tomorrow to meet other college and university grads and some special guests as well, celebrating the class of 2021. That's tomorrow on The Current. That's the programme for this Wednesday. Coming up next on CBC Radio One, it's Q. Tom Power speaking with comedian and actor Ali Hassan about the attack in London, Ontario, and his own experiences with Islamophobia. I want to go back to the first story in our programme, the murder of three generations of one family in London, Ontario. There was a vigil held in that city last night. The prime minister and other political leaders, the premier of Ontario, community leaders, regular Londoners, all there to grieve together and remember that family. We'll leave you this morning with a message from Aarij Anwer, who is the imam of the London mosque. I'm Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening to The Current. And we'll talk to you tomorrow.

SOUNDCLIP

Upon receiving the horrific news, the London Muslim community was violently shaken. We felt pain, sorrow, fear and anger. We were in a dark place. But after the darkness of the night comes the light of daybreak. After hardship comes is we are a resilient community. We are a strong community. We belong here. This is our home. We will not cower out of fear. We will be resilient by being normal, by being ourselves. We will heal. As imam, I want to acknowledge the outpouring of support from our London non-Muslim community, our friends, our neighbours, your love will help us heal. I want to call for an immediate action international action summit on Islamophobia, where leaders come together to take immediate action on dismantling both violent forms of Islamophobia and systemic Islamophobia. Lastly, but certainly not least, I want to mention our dear of the family gone now but forever in our hearts. They were loved when they were alive. Their memory will be cherished. Now that they're gone, we will honour their memory. We will take care of the surviving orphan fires. He is our son. We will take care of him. I'll leave you with the words of my student from last year. She said, I want to leave a legacy. She proceeded to paint a mural in the mosque that reads Shoot for the moon, even if you miss your land amongst the stars.

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