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The AIH Transcript for June 8, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: The hate motivated killing of a family in London, Ontario, is a deeply personal loss to the city's Muslim community, and to our guest -- a family friend who wonders if Muslims will ever feel safe in their city again.

CH: “They had one job”. A Hamilton, Ontario. Judge has ruled that two paramedics should have done much more to help a teenager who was dying of a gunshot wound.

CO: Cautiously pessimistic. The U.S. greenlights the first new Alzheimer's drug in nearly two decades, but our guest recommended it be red lit -- because the clinical evidence to date isn't particularly promising.

CH: Gathering dust. A California farmer warns that Canadians could see higher prices for produce from the state -- as he, and other growers, deal with water shortages amid a massive drought.

CO: Keep on trunkin’. A parade of elephants has been on a year-long trek across southwest China -- and scientists are still trying to figure out why they left, and where they're going.

CH: And easy, peasy melons squeezy. A bodybuilder crushes a world record by crushing watermelons between her thighs -- and hopes to motivate women everywhere to shatter gender norms, and more watermelons.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Tuesday edition. Radio that hopes that's not just squishful thinking.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: London Attack Family Friend, CA Drought, China Elephants Trek

London Attack Family Friend

Guest: Ahmed Hegazy

CH: The lives of four family members in London, Ontario were extinguished in an instant. And that act will change the city's Muslim community forever. On Sunday, a family was out for an evening walk when a truck drove into them. Salman Afzaal, his mother Talat Afzaal, his wife Madiha Salman, and their 15-year-old daughter Yumna were killed. Their nine-year-old son, Fayez, survived. He's still in hospital. Police say a 20-year-old man planned the attack, targeting the family because they were Muslim. He's been charged with murder. Here's what Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said today.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: What happened on Sunday in London, this act of terrorism and Islamophobia, is sickening. It is heartbreaking. It's hard to find words that are enough. So all I can say is this, to everyone who is grieving, who is angry, who is afraid, your neighbours stand with you, your community stands with you. And Canadians are wondering what they can do to help? How they can prevent our country from going further down this dark path? Well, the next time you see a woman in a hijab, or a family out for a stroll, give them a smile. Show them that they are respected. Show them that they are loved. And that they have friends and allies across this country who will stand with them and fight for them.

CH: Prime Minister Trudeau will be in London tonight for a vigil at the London Muslim Mosque. So will Ahmed Hegazy. He's a doctor who was a family friend of the victims. He's in London.

CO: Ahmed, first of all, I want to say I'm so sorry for your loss, and for the loss of your... your community.

AHMED HEGAZY: Thank you.

CO: What do you make of what the prime minister had to say in London today?

AH: I appreciate what our prime minister said. And we are all very, very shaken, as a community, as a family, as I'm sure a lot of Canadians are. What I would say, though, is we appreciate the condolences, and we appreciate the support. It makes us really feel at home, but still, we want action.

CO: We heard the news Sunday night, Monday, that there had been this horrible hit and run. At what point did you realize that these were your neighbours and your friends?

AH: I didn't know until late in the afternoon yesterday. And it was only through friends texting each other and sending around pictures that I started to realize that they were talking about Salman, my friend. It took a while, but it really, at the end, hit me that his entire family had been murdered. And my wife and his wife were close friends, and families knew each other. We visited quite a bit. And so it felt unreal. It didn't feel like this was actually happening. And after a while, it just hit me that somebody just drove their car into them and murdered them for just the way they looked. They basically looked Muslim. This person decided that they don't deserve to live and took his car and decided to take away their lives.

CO: Can you tell us about Salman? He was the first member of the family you met, you became friends with. How did you come to meet him?

AH: So I met him about 14 years ago at the London Muslim Mosque. And everybody at the mosque knows Salman. Just a beautiful person, always smiling, always willing to help, very kind-hearted. Somebody who would really hold no grudges for anybody, just a genuinely beautiful person. And as time went by, our families got to know each other. And then he moved into the neighbourhood. And so we weren't next-door neighbours, but we lived close by that we would visit. Sometimes families would get together. And every Ramadan, families would have their... break their fast together. This past Ramadan, however, was different. And obviously, we weren't able to meet this past Ramadan. And people develop their own habits of trying to deal with this lockdown. And... and one of the habits, I believe, that Salman's family developed was to try to go out for a walk right before sunset. And Salman's mother was very fond of these walks. Little, obviously, did they know that this would be their last walk.

CO: And it was Sunday. It was a hot, humid day. It would have been so nice just as the sun was setting to be walking and getting the cool night air, I guess?

AH: Umm-hmm. And his mother, Salman, his wife and his daughter are all not with us anymore.

CO: Can you tell us a bit about his wife, Madiha? She was a good friend of your wife. And she was just finishing her PhD, I understand?

AH: Yeah, she was finishing her PhD in civil engineering at Western. She was very hard working. And I didn't know her too much. My wife was very close, but when they... when we would visit, it was very clear that they were really working hard to get her to finish her PhD and see if she can do something beyond that.

CO: And then there's the kids. There's Fayez, who survived the attack -- the nine-year-old boy. His sister, Yumna, didn't survive. There's a story about Yumna, about how she painted an entire mural last summer at the elementary school she was attending before moving to high school. And she designed it. She drew it. She painted this wall. Do you know anything about that?

AH: Yeah. She was part of a very enthusiastic group of students who actually bought this project to life. You see the kids grow and their identity develop through projects like this.

CO: I want to understand a bit more about what this means for London's Muslim community, just what effect it's having on people?

AH: There's a shaken sense of security for a lot of Muslims. I think there are difficult conversations to be had with kids. I still haven't told my kids about this. And the last thing you want is for the kids to not feel safe in their country. Because my kids are Canadian. They've never lived anywhere other than Canada. And you want them to be able to express their identity and their culture freely. And I know that our prime minister said a beautiful word, and I really appreciate all that he said. But Muslims are looking for something more beyond condolences. If we don't put this to action and stop the vilification of Muslims in the media and everywhere, this may happen again. I think action needs to be taken.

CO: What kind of action?

AH: From a leadership standpoint, I think it's important that legislators and community leaders and obviously our Canadian leaders at large need to look at how to define hate speech and how to actually look at hate speech proactively and hold whoever brings that forward accountable. I think freedom of speech is absolutely important. But when it comes to a point that you're adding fuel to the fire, it no longer should be allowed.

CO: There were a number of tweets, messages people were putting out, saying that they are telling their mothers and their aunties not to go out for their walks wearing their traditional clothing, not to wear shalwar kameez or hijab outside because it's now dangerous. Are you hearing the same thing in among Muslims in your community?

AH: Absolutely, I am. Everybody's talking about this. Should we really be out in the streets and feeling safe and secure in our traditional dress? Is that something that we should avoid from here on? When ladies are walking out in the street, and they're given a certain look, you know, a lot of ladies have learned to ignore that. But from here on, I'm sure a lot of ladies will not. A lot of ladies will feel that this look may be a prelude to something more aggressive.

CO: Have you seen someone, have you seen that look? Have you... you mentioned your wife has that look. Have you…. have you had that come your way?

AH: I've certainly seen it, yes. And I brought it up to my wife more than once. And she would say, oh, get used to it. That's my life.

CO: I'm so sorry to hear that. Ahmed, can I just... before we let you go, is there... is there a memory, is there a thought of Salman that you're holding dear today?

AH: I'm going to miss Salman. You know, his presence at the mosque and his demeanour, his smile. I'm going to miss how he would... we would talk about, you know, how to help this new settler settle in. How to help him get his credentials approved. How to help him find a job. How to help him find a way in Canada. Really just the kind-hearted person who would go out of his way to help anybody and everybody who needed help. I will certainly miss him and his family.

CO: What a profound loss. Ahmed, I really appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

AH: Thanks so much.

CH: Ahmed Hegazy is a neighbour and family friend of the victims of the attack in London. Now, Carol mentioned a mural that 15-year-old Yumna Afzaal painted at her school last year. It's of outer space, and it says, "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." Last night, the school's leadership held a Zoom call to remember Yumna and her mural.

SOUNDCLIP

ASAD CHOUDHARY: She did something really special. So during the pandemic, she shared with us some of her deepest talents, and she came to the school building and made something incredible. And upon thanking her and her mother, she came up to me privately, and she said, Mr. Asad, I need to thank you. And I need to thank you because you're giving me the opportunity to leave a legacy for a place [beginning to cry] I love so much.

HASSAN MOSTAFA: So, for those who don't know, the students designed, painted and drew a beautiful mural that's in the basement of our school. And you all know the mural, but what you don't know is who drew it and who... who designed it and who did it almost by herself. When she said that she wanted that to be her legacy, that will be just one small part of a tremendous legacy that she will be leaving with us here at LIS. I've looked at that mural several times already today. And every time I look at that mural in the future, I will think of that special young lady, and that will just be a small part of her legacy moving forward.

CH: That was the principal of the London, Islamic School, Asad Choudhary, and school board member Hassan Mostafa, remembering their former student Yumna Afzaal. You can find more on this story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: Folk]

CA Drought

Guest: Joe Del Bosque

CH: Joe Del Bosque's job is always hard work. He runs a 2,000-acre farm in central California that produces crops like melons, almonds, sweet corn, and asparagus. But things have become much harder lately: water shortages are pushing him and other farmers to their limits. Right now, nearly a third of his farm isn't planted. And about 75 per cent of California is classified as being in an "extreme drought." We reached Joe Del Bosque near Los Banos, California.

CO: Joe, what are the hard choices that you've had to make this season?

JOE DEL BOSQUE: We had some organic asparagus, and about three weeks ago, we decided to pull that out. We had finished harvesting for this year, and we decided to plough it under. Now, asparagus is something that will grow for nine or 10 years. And this asparagus was about five years old. So we decided to plough that under because we were afraid we were not going to have enough water for our melons. And so, we also reduced our melon acreage by a significant amount. And... and we always have some land that is never planted because we never have enough water. So all of that combined adds up to almost a third of our farm.

CO: How does this drought compare with droughts you've had before in California?

JDB: We have had droughts since 1990. We have had water reductions since 1990. And it's gotten worse in the last 11 or 12 years. And this one is probably the worst. And the reason being that in the past, when we were short of water, we started making partnerships with other farmers in another part of the state to buy their water. And the agencies that operate the big projects like the Central Valley Project and the California Department of Water Resources, they're the ones that move the water to us. And this year, they are not able to move that water for us. We moved some of it, but there's still some they're holding in the reservoirs in the north of the state. And we may not be able to get that water to us in time for the crops that are growing right now.

CO: Why can't you get the water this year? What's going on?

JDB: They want to hold that water for environmental purposes. Specifically, from what I hear, is they want to use this water, which was just sitting in a reservoir in Northern California. They want to use it to control temperature in the river for the benefit of salmon.

CO: What are your other... what are the other farmers doing? Are they doing things like ploughing down their asparagus and... and making those kinds of choices as well?

JDB: Some of them are. In my part of the state, there's a few that are pulling out their almond orchards. And those who have row crops like myself, they're fallowing land -- that means not planting it. It could get uglier as the summer goes on because a lot of us were anticipating some of this water to be delivered to us in time for... for the summer when crops use most of their water. And it's very possible that if it doesn't get transferred here, that some of these crops are probably going to... are probably going to die on the vine, so to speak.

CO: California provides so much of the food for the whole United States, doesn't it? It’s about a third of the vegetables, two-thirds of the fruits and nuts. So this is something that is going to affect all of the United States, is it not?

JDB: Definitely will. In the summertime, you know, most of the fruits are coming out of California. And, of course, the nuts, you know, we produce so many nuts, almonds, pistachios and walnuts for not only the U.S. but for the world. But we do produce a lot of fruit and a lot of vegetables also. They’re undoubtedly going to be affected. And... and that may reach the consumer in higher, possibly higher prices.

CO: And we should point out for this audience that Canada imports vast amounts, the majority of our... those vegetables and fruits and nuts from California. So it's that we are a huge market. So it's going to have quite an impact in this country as well, isn't it?

JDB: It will. We export organic melons to Canada. And I'm sure that a lot of my fellow farmers export a lot of things, probably table grapes and tree fruit and vegetables and so forth. So, yeah, this is going to reach out to Canada for sure.

CO: What does this mean for the people who work on your farm, many of them migrant workers? What are the repercussions for them?

JDB: Well, it's very serious for them. We have, you might say, two classifications of workers, those that work all year for us. They're the ones that plant, irrigate, cultivate the crops. And then we have seasonal pools of people who come in and harvest. In about three weeks, we will hire hundreds of people. That's when we get into peak season. We'll have hundreds of people working in melons. And... and that season is probably going to be cut short because we don't have enough water to plant our normal acreage. So those people are... I expect they'll be employed maybe three weeks less than... than normal than we expected to. And that's pretty significant for a farmworker family that’s got, you know, children, some of them in school and college. It's a difficult hit for them.

CO: And you understand that well because I understand your own parents were migrant farmworkers originally from Mexico, right?

JDB: That's correct. Both my father's family and mother's family came from Mexico over 100 years ago. And they... they work in the fields in the 20s and 30s and 40s as farmworkers. My dad became a farm manager in the 1950s. He was not a farm owner, but he managed a farm. And that's where I grew up. We grew up on a farm in labour camp. So, yeah, it's very dear to me. And when I see our... our farm workers working, it's like I'm seeing my ancestors.

CO: How difficult is all this for you then?

JDB: It's very difficult. Many of these workers have been with us for a long time, and even some of their children come work for us in the summer, you know, when they're on vacation from school or college. So we've gotten to know them. And they're very experienced workers. They’re very valuable to us because they know how to do some of these very skilled jobs that they do. So, you know, we're very concerned. We're very concerned that... of losing them.

CO: Joe, I'm really sorry all this is happening, and I hope you are able to save some of your season.

JDB: Well, I hope so, too. I thank you very much. We're trying to keep it together, not just to hold our farm together and our people, but also to keep the relationship with our customers. We provide melons to some of the best chain stores in the country. One of those being Loblaws in your country. We don't want to lose those customers. Our program has to be sustained yearly to keep everything together. The whole farm as a system, which includes, you know, the land, the people, the crops, the markets, the water. So we're trying to do everything we can to keep it going.

CO: So people in Canada will understand better when they see those prices that we're going to probably see that this is something that you're struggling with more than we are. So I appreciate speaking with you, Joe.

JDB: Well, thank you. Have a great day.

CH: Joe Del Bosque runs Del Bosque Farms in central California. We reached him near the city of Los Banos. And we've posted some pictures to go with this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: acoustic guitar]

China Elephants Trek

Guest: Joshua Plotnik

CH: The wandering elephants are wandering again. More than a year ago, a parade of wild Asian elephants left their home at a nature reserve in southwest China. Since then, they've travelled 500 kilometres through fields and urban streets -- becoming international stars during their journey. New photos show the giant animals sleeping in a forest in the province of Yunnan. But they're already on the move again. Joshua Plotnik is an expert on Asian elephant cognition and behavior at Hunter College in New York, and he's been in touch with the Chinese scientists tracking the elephants.

CO: Joshua, do you have any idea where these elephants might be headed?

JOSHUA PLOTNIK: The short answer is no. In terms of understanding where they're heading is not as important as understanding why they're headed there because I think that the biggest issue that these elephants are facing is lack of resources and pressure from human habitation. So, at the very least, these elephants are likely trying to find resources that were limited in the location where they came from, in the nature reserve in Xishuangbanna, in southern China. Or they were potentially pushed out by increasing human encroachment on their habitat. But we don't know that yet.

CO: All right. Let's look at the possibilities. They were on this… they left this nature reserve about a year ago. Why suddenly would they do that? They were... they... this... this has been a habitat for these Chinese elephants for some time. Why would they suddenly leave?

JP: Yeah. And again, I wish I had a better answer to this besides, I don't know? But I have been involved in some conversations, and I'm on some listservs with... with other Asian elephant experts that are working on the ground in China. And the hypotheses are that, you know, due to, again, the fact that there is an increase in human population, there's habitat fragmentation, there is a loss of access to high-quality food and water, that at some point you reach a threshold where the elephants make a judgement call. I hate to be too anthropomorphic there, but they are weighing costs and benefits, and they're making risky decisions to decide that now is the time that we need to go out and find other resources. But again, that's, you know, that's conjecture at this point. I think that we... that this is a relatively new change in their environment and that scientists really need to look into why they may have left this location in the first place and try to come up with ways to, once they figure out why they left, come up with ways to satisfy those needs so that either the elephants want to return there, which would be ideal, or they find other suitable habitat in which the elephants can live safely.

CO: How rare is it to have elephants in China outside of that nature reserve?

JP: To my knowledge, it's pretty rare. So there are roughly 300 elephants left in all of China, and they are exclusively living in Yunnan Province. To my knowledge, this is unprecedented in the sense that this small group, relatively small group of 15 elephants, just left a nature reserve where they had lived for quite a long period of time and have, you know, made a movement several hundred kilometres north. Certainly, in terms of the public reaction, that would tell you that this is a unique and novel experience for people.

CO: How are people in Yunnan responding to the elephants wandering around?

JP: both local community members, government officials and scientists are working together, which is exceptional, to try to come up with ways to mediate the potential conflict here, right? So if you have elephants that are potentially raiding farmers' crops and causing damage to agriculture, you have to come up with a way of mitigating that as quickly as possible before the interactions between the elephants and the local people become even more negative. So from at least from what I've seen in press reports and what I've heard from other people on the ground, it does seem like people are really, at this point, very curious about what's happening. But at some point, it will become more desperate if the elephants become more aggressive or if they... if they end up causing more damage, then you might see an increase in the intensity of the conflict. And that's when it again becomes more of an immediate problem that needs fixing.

CO: But there are these... they are wandering down city streets. The capital of... of Yunnan being Kunming. They've been seeing there wandering around there in fields, as you say, eating crops and whatnot. I mean, are they being watched by the authorities, followed?

JP: Yeah, well, at the very least, I have seen drone images of, you know, the... the... the authorities using drones to track the elephants. Elephants are very good at hearing and very good at smelling, right? So it's this... this buzzing noise above their head that's moving quickly. And, you know, quite simply, it scares the elephants, and they don't like it. But it seems that through, I guess, habituation using the drones regularly, these elephants have become accustomed to them and are not afraid of them and don't seem to, you know, move quickly away from them. I saw images today of the elephants, and again, this is conjecture. I just saw them online, of the elephant sleeping with the drones above them. So that... that suggests that they've gotten used to it, which is a good thing in the sense that it allows people to track them and to be aware of where they are.

CO: Is it possible that they're looking for love?

JP No. [both chuckle]

CO: I mean, in the sense that they're looking to mate outside of the herd that's in the nature reserve?

JP: Again, I couldn't really conjecture on that, except... except to say that generally, it is males that seek out females, not the other way around. And again, I think that the... the the general issue that these elephants are facing not only in China, but around the world is a shrinking of their own natural habitat, which in turn results in a limited amount of resources and water that are available to them. Elephants eat upwards of 250 kilos of food a day. And once they get a taste of a high-quality food that's planted in a crop field, for instance, it could be very difficult to deter them away from that. So I think it is more likely that what you're seeing is a lack of resources or an increase in, you known, human behaviour that's... that's causing these elephants to do what they... what they did. And so, again, we need... we need more science. We need more research to kind of understand what happened, even though right now I recognize that short-term solutions are necessary to ensure the conflict does not grow more intense.

CO: All right, Joshua, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

JP: Thank you.

CH: Joshua Plotnik is an associate professor in the Animal Behaviour and Conservation Program at Hunter College in New York. He was in Dutchess County, New York.

[music: folk]

Part 2: Hamilton Paramedic Decision, Alzheimer’s Drug Approved

Hamilton Paramedic Decision

Guests: Ahmed Al-Hasnawi, Majed Al-Hasnawi

CH: Their job was to save lives. But a court has said that two Hamilton, Ontario paramedics fell well short of their duty. In 2017, the two were called to help 19-year old Yosif Al-Hasnawi -- who had been shot. Witnesses testified that the paramedics did not take the teenager's injury seriously. Yosif was pronounced dead in hospital. Today, Steven Snively and Christopher Marchant were found guilty on the charge of "failing to provide the necessaries of life". Majed Al-Hasnawi is Yosif Al-Hasnawi's father. We reached him in Hamilton.

CO: Majed, this must be in many ways, a hard day for you, and my condolences for the loss of your son.

MAJED AL-HASNAWI: Thank you. I really appreciate it.

CO: How did you feel when you heard the judge's decision today?

MAH: I feel happy because I feel we got some justice, finally.

CO: I want to go back. I know you have thought this through and you've testified and you've talked about this a lot. But just so people can be reminded of what happened that night, you were there when your son was shot. What state was he in when the paramedics arrived?

MAH: He was lying on his back, moveless -- hardly moving his legs and his hands on his head. He was powerless. Seriously, he wasn't able to move. And he told me, I cannot breathe. The paramedics heard him. Before I arrived to my son, the paramedics asking me, hey, ask him, tell your son no need to act and no need to lie.

CO: These paramedics have been found guilty of failing to provide the necessaries of life. So how did they respond to your son when they arrived?

MAH: They were careless. They didn't bring their first aid kit box. They didn't check him well accusing him of being lying. They wasted lots of time, lots of time investigating. I know probably paramedics need to know what happened by asking others, but they exaggerated in doing this and they acted like they are the detectives.

CO: They said that they thought your son had been shot by a BB gun and not a real gun. Is that right?

MAH: Yes, this is what they think.

CO: But in fact, he had been shot by a 22 calibre handgun, and there was a hollow point bullet in... that pierced an artery and a vein in his... in his abdomen, right?

MAH: And they know that because the paramedics was wiping the blood around that hole. xo they know there is a penetrating wound.

CO: What did they say to you about your son's state?

MAH: They said... they said he has no problem, and he was acting. And he deserved the Oscar for acting.

CO: There was actually a situation where they did not help him to get on the stretcher, right? They wanted him to walk into the ambulance. Is that right?

MAH: True, they did that. They carry him and he fell down. On the video being shown in the court. He's trying to stand him up by pulling his arm from the palm, lift his arm all the way, then let it go hard to hit the ground. It was very humiliating and painful.

CO: And meanwhile, he was bleeding internally, right?

MAH: He was. And I mentioned that to them. And even I talked to the… told police officer, too. Because I told this guy that told to the paramedic, hey, there is probably internal bleeding. He just ignored me. I went to the other police officer. I called the police officer, too. I told him, hey, there is... there is internal bleeding. So I mentioned that and I still being ignored.

CO: Was your son able to speak at this point?

MAH: No, he hardly is saying I cannot breathe.

CO: And what were you... you were able to speak to him, though. What did you say to him?

MAH: I told him that he will be OK because I have... I have faith in, you know, the health service. I thought they took him to hospital and you will get the right treatment. I never thought it would be that bad, you know? Because in the end, hey, we are in Canada. We are not in Iraq. Even in Iraq, that's easy thing to do.

CO: And so what was the last time, what was your last moment with Yosif? Can you tell us about that?

MAH: Yeah, I was close to him, and I told him it will be OK. He didn't... he didn't reply to me because he was very tired. And he said, I cannot breathe. I'm telling you will be fine. You'll be OK.

CO: They took him in the ambulance to the wrong hospital, right? They took him to the hospital, they thought he was having some psychiatric episode and that he should get treated at a different hospital. Is that right?

MAH: True. The furthest one. It's almost double the distance of the one that they supposed to take him to, which is General Hospital. It’s a couple of blocks from the... the tragedy location. Unfortunately, they decided to go to St. Joseph's.

CO: And why did they decide to go to that hospital?

MAH: Because according to their statement, the paramedic’s statement, they were saying he has a psychiatric issue or drugs or alcohol. This is what they claim.

CO: Instead, he had a bullet in his gut?

MAH: Yeah.

CO You had the encounter with the paramedics. What did they say about his death? How did they respond when they learned that their patient had died?

MAH: After declaring my son dead, I saw the paramedics. And I told him, do you believe him now? Just answer this question. He didn't reply. I went back to my spot. There is a chair outside, and I looked at him again. I came back right away, tell him, just answer, do you believe him now? I need to know this, please. Do believe him? You killed my son. Do you believe him now? That's what... he said, all he said, I can speak to you. He asked me to... whether I can speak to him privately? I told him no. I'm not talking to you. You’re not a human.

CO: There are witnesses who also testified that they heard laughter. They heard them joking that it was just a mosquito bite, that he wasn't really hurt, that he's pretending. When do you think back to that night, being there and watching all that, what effect does that have on you? What... what stays with you the most about that horrible night?

MAH: Extreme pain, extreme pain, seriously? You know, I cannot even describe it. I sometimes... I do crazy things, you know, and I wish I can take my son to a hospital by myself. This is what I do. When it have some incidents to my son, I just stick them in my car to the closest hospital. So, yeah, it's extreme pain. Extreme pain.

CO: How are you remembering your son? Just tell us a bit about him before we go?

MAH: He’s a big pride. He's a good humoured sense of humour. He’s smart boy. He's cooperative. He's the one to help me out in growing up his two brothers because I'm a single father for a long time. So I remember him pride and regret. I wish he was with me.

CO: And his brother, who was with him that night, how does he feel about this conviction of the two paramedics?

MAH: He will talk to you if you like? He can express himself.

CO: Yeah, sure.

AHMED AL-HASNAWI: Hey, how are you?

CO: Hi, you’re Ahmed.

AAH Yes, I’m Ahmed.

CO: Hello, Ahmed. I just wanted to ask you because I know you were with your brother that night. How does it feel for you to see this conviction of these paramedics?

AAH: Obviously, I feel good, you know? it's... it's good to have a little bit of justice, you know? I kind of lost faith in the justice system for a while. But, hey, now... now there's a little bit of justice going to happen, so.

CO: Well, I'm glad that that has… at least that has... has happened for you and for your father. And can you thank him for us? And I'll thank you and thanks for speaking with us.

AAH: Thank you so much. All right.

CO: Bye-bye.

AAH: Bye.

CH: That was Ahmed Al-Hasnawi, the brother of Yosif Al-Hasnawi and Majed Al-Hasnawi, Yosif's father. We reached them both in Hamilton, Ontario. Today, two paramedics were found guilty of the charge of failing to provide the necessaries of life, after they were called to help Yosif Al-Hasnawi when he was shot in 2017.

[music: folk]

Baby Gallagher

CH: Baby Gallagher was mere minutes old when he was draped in a Montreal Canadiens' jersey. And it wasn't just any jersey -- it was that of his namesake, Montreal Canadiens player Brendan Gallagher. Kyle and Alicia McKenna, baby Gallagher's parents, obviously really love the Habs. And as they told CBC Montreal, the idea to name their son after the winger was a no-brainer.

SOUNDCLIP

ALICIA MCKENNA: We are so in love. We're tired, but it's so worth it. We were at the hospital for three days, and we're just getting home today and bringing him home is the best day of my life.

SABRINA MARANDOLA: And tell us more about this journey to find his name?

KYLE MCKENNA: Well, it started kind of as a joke when we... you know, a few years ago we were talking about having kids and what we'd like to name them. And I said, oh, I'd like to name them Gallagher. And it was just an ongoing joke. And then when we found out we were pregnant, that name had kind of stuck around for a little bit, kind of pesky!

SM: And this is Gallagher, as in number 11 of the Habs Gallagher?

KM: The great number 11, Brendan Gallagher.

SM: Brendan Gallagher. And so, Alicia, what did you think? You just thought, oh, it's a joke. He's not serious?

AM: Well, Kyle had mentioned wanting to name him after Brendan Gallagher. And I honestly was like, I love the name Gallagher as soon as he said it. And, like, people were like, so you're naming him after a hockey player. And we're like, yes, kind of. Like, it just kind of stuck. And honestly, we never talked about another name after that. He was Gallagher long before we even ever decided to have kids. I didn't know that Kyle had brought the jersey to the hospital with him because that was not something that was on the forefront of my mind. [SM laughs] And as soon as he was born, and they put them on my chest, and Kyle brought the jersey out, the whole room, like, exploded because I just didn't know that he had done it. And I was like, oh, my God, you actually brought it! The staff all thought it was amazing. And I was just so happy that you remembered to bring it because I just never would have thought to bring a jersey. And I'm so glad that he did. I said to Kyle, I said, this is what we've talked about since I found that I was pregnant, was the night that we would come home and, you know, sit on the couch together and watch the games with our new son. So this is like, you know, a dream come true for me right now.

CH: That was Kyle and Alicia McKenna, who live in Newfoundland, speaking with Sabrina Marandola, host of "Let's Go", about naming their son after Montreal Canadiens player Brendan Gallagher. The Canadiens beat the Winnipeg Jets last night, and will now move on to the semi-finals.

[music: hip-hop beat]

Alzheimer’s Drug Approved

Guest: Dr. Caleb Alexander

CH: For the first time in nearly twenty years, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has approved a new drug for Alzheimer's. That's being celebrated by some patients and their advocates. But the medical milestone is also marred by controversy. The drug called aducanumab is made by Biogen, along with the Japanese company Eisai. Last fall, an FDA advisory committee did not endorse the drug. Nevertheless, yesterday, the FDA granted it "accelerated approval" -- with a director saying, quote: "there is an expectation of clinical benefit, despite some residual uncertainty regarding that benefit." Unquote. The FDA is requiring the drugmaker to do further study. Dr. Caleb Alexander was one of the members of the advisory committee. He's a professor of epidemiology and medicine at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. And we reached him in Baltimore.

CO: Dr. Alexander, the president of the Alzheimer's Association, has called this approval a victory for people living with this disease and their families. How would you describe it?

DR. CALEB ALEXANDER: Well, I think it's a bit of a surprise, frankly. I know that there's an enormous amount of unmet need and a real hunger for new treatments. But we also have regulatory standards for a reason. And I think that the prevailing view among scientists is that the FDA moved too quickly to approve this product in the setting of quite uncertain safety and effectiveness.

CO: You were on the committee that didn't want this to be approved. Can you tell us why you decided against recommending it last fall?

CA: We were asked a fairly simple and straightforward question by the FDA, which was, did we feel that the evidence was persuasive regarding the safety and effectiveness of this product? And so we looked at the evidence to date, which included one trial that failed and one trial that was partially successful. And what the prevailing view of the committee was, was that that simply did not constitute persuasive evidence of safety and effectiveness.

CO: Why do you think that then the... the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration, approved this aducanumab drug?

CA: Well, it's important to note that they didn't ultimately, to the surprise of many, approve it based on the clinical evidence that was provided by the manufacturer. Rather, they relied upon evidence that aducanumab lowers the level of a protein called beta-amyloid in the brain. And I think there's a great deal of uncertainty as to whether or not beta-amyloid, this protein that the FDA relied upon to approve the drug, whether beta-amyloid really is what we call a valid surrogate? In other words, is it really a good proxy for disease progression and Alzheimer's disease? There's an enormous unmet need for new treatments for this devastating and all too common disease. And I think that ultimately it was this demand for new treatments that propelled this product across the finish line.

CO: But the claim is.. is that this would be the first drug that would actually attack the disease and not just the symptoms of the disease, right?

CA: Well, that has been claimed. And I think it's important to note that even in the clinical trial, where there was some evidence of potential effectiveness of aducanumab, its effect was really quite modest. Now, this doesn't mean that it's unimportant. And, of course, for patients and their loved ones who are experiencing this often devastating disease, even a small effect may be one that patients and their... their caregivers are willing to... to go for. But it is important to note that the overall effect of aducanumab, as it was studied in these trials, represents really a best-case scenario. Where unlikely because of differences in how products are used in the real world versus in the sort of much more sterile setting of a clinical trial. We're unlikely to see even those modest gains reflected in real-world use.

CO: So if the... the effect is small, on the other side, what are the side effects that come with this drug?

CA: Well, that's an outstanding question because, in the field of pharmacoepidemiology or study of the... the use and safety and effectiveness of drugs, we always talk not only about the potential benefits of drugs, but there are risks. And ultimately, these risks and benefits have to be balanced. In the setting of aducanumab, a significant proportion of individuals receiving the FDA approved dose of the drug experienced brain swelling. Now, fortunately, in most cases, most, but not all, this brain swelling was asymptomatic. But in a significant proportion of cases, individuals had symptoms such as headaches, fatigue, confusion, memory loss, trouble walking. And what makes these potential side effects so vexing is that these are exactly the side effects that we often see with progressive Alzheimer's disease.

CO: It also comes with a hefty price tag, doesn't it? Because this is a monthly intravenous infusion that you'd get. What would it actually cost for someone to be treated by it?

CA: Well, the price tag is through the roof. The price tag for an annual supply of the medicine may exceed 50,000 dollars. At least that's the... that's the initial what we call list price. But it's important to note that that is manyfold greater than what has been suggested as a value-based price. And even that is a lot of money for millions in the United States that struggle with their prescription costs, and that may have to share a portion of the cost that insurers are not willing to cover.

CO: And so will this be covered by Medicare? You're... the one that the one plan that's for, I guess, for many people, if not most, how will this be paid for? Who will pay for this?

CA: Well, we have yet to see. And I think this is the next chapter in this saga is how insurers, how these health care payers, both the federal government that, as you point out, covers care for millions of elderly Americans as well as commercial payers, commercial plans, how they determine their coverage and reimbursement conditions for this product. It will simply break the bank to think that individuals would be paying tens of thousands of dollars, whether through their insurance, indirectly or in some cases, out of pocket. So I think there are a lot of important and unanswered questions regarding what the coverage and reimbursement for this product will look like?

CO: Dr. Alexander, we'll leave it there. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

CA: Thank you for having me.

CO: Bye-bye.

CH: Dr. Caleb Alexander is a professor of epidemiology and medicine at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. He spoke to us from Baltimore. In an interview with Bloomberg, Biogen's CEO applauded his team for following decades of science -- and said the FDA had thoroughly evaluated the safety and efficacy profile of its drug.

[music: jazz]

Melons Crushed In Thighs Lady

CH: If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And by the same token, if you can crush watermelons, then everything looks like a watermelon to be crushed. Especially watermelons. Last Friday, Kortney Olson shattered a world record by crushing three watermelons between her thighs in 7.5 seconds. Two world records, actually: she beat the women's watermelon-crushing record by over seven seconds -- and the men's record by almost three-and-a-half seconds. Ms. Olson performed this feat at the opening of the Las Vegas location of her women's activewear store, GRRRL Clothing. Here's what it sounded like. And listen closely to hear the watermelons exploding.

SOUNDCLIP

WOMAN: three… two… one… stop!

[sound: a comically large sloop sound and lots of cheering and clapping]

CH: Kortney Olson's beliefs are as strong as her legs. She told the Eureka Times-Standard, "I just decided in correlation with our store opening, because it's a community space and we really want to start utilizing the space to teach things, to share this watermelon-crushing story with younger girls." She also revealed that she teaches a course in watermelon-crushing -- and shared her fondest dream. "My vision," she said, "is just seeing a ton of women on Aug. 3, on National Watermelon Day, crushing the crap out of some watermelons."As visionaries go, she's pretty melon-centric. But her dream might come true -- if everyone crunches the numbers.

[music: indie pop]

Part 3: Ban Myanmar Olympics, Edmonton Folk Festival

QC/HFX Proms

CH: François Legault is cutting Quebec's high school grads loose... footloose. Premier Legault announced this afternoon that prom nights can go ahead despite the pandemic. Grads will be free to ditch their masks and dance so long as they're outside or in tents and so long as they wait until July 8th. That's when Dr. Horacio Arruda, Quebec's Director of Public Health, says most teenagers should be partially protected from their first vaccine dose. But today in Quebec City, reporters asked Dr Arruda and Premier Legault why they aren't making a similar exception for events, including weddings.

SOUNDCLIP

FRANCOIS LEGAULT: It's clear any time we take a decision with one group, there is another group who is asking why them and not me? I'm sure that actually people about their marriage are perhaps telling why should I not? If there is a prom 250, why could I not have the same thing? That's... that's the risk we take. We take into account, I will say, the fact that you just can prom once. Actually, I'm --

HORACIO ARRUDA: [chuckling] What about marriage? [laughter in the room] What about marriage?

FL: It seems it… it seems that it could be more than once. And it seems that you can report it to, too. So... so... but... but we are... we are always having those discussions and those tensions. It's clear. It's clear. And there is always when we take a decision for some, an impression of inequities. So that's it.

HA: In my case, I only marry once. [laughing in the room] I hope that's going to be the case.

CH: That was Quebec's Director of Public Health Dr. Horacio Arruda and before him, the province's premier François Legault. But in Nova Scotia, Sophia Lane isn't laughing. The Halifax West grad is protesting restrictions that have turned her grad night into a no-dancing, limited-attendance event that won't bring her whole class together at the same time.

SOUNDCLIP

SOPHIA LANE: Honestly, I feel like it doesn't really mean anything to us because it doesn't feel like we're graduating unless we're all with each other. Like, how it's going to play out now is there's going to be four or five of us in the Bella Rose theatre. And it's going to be people that I may not even know, that even went to school with those three years at The West. And it's just not going to be the same without, like, some of my best friends around me.

ALEX GUYE: How does this make you feel towards the province?

SL: Honestly, I'm frustrated. But at the same time, like I do understand, we're in a very serious like, situation, and we do need to take precautions and be safe. But at the same time, it's just frustrating because this is what we've waited for our whole life. And just for something to just pop up like COVID-19 two years ago, it just gets swept right out from under us with like us not being able to have a say at all.

AG: What would you say would be the best outcome that you'd want from this situation?

SL: I'm sure we obviously aren't going to be able to have our big graduation like we want to right now. But I would like to have more people to watch me graduate. Because right now, I can only have two people, which would be just my mom and dad. And I have to, like, look at my Nan and say, sorry, you can't come to watch your granddaughter graduate. And I feel like that's really going to break her heart because she's like a second mother to me and she's been there for me, for everything.

AG: What is one thing that you would like people who are going to be reading or listening to this to know?

SL: Just how frustrated all of us really are. And we do expect everything, and we know people will disagree with us. But it's just our opinion because people that aren't in our situation right now won't understand fully what we're going through. And that we do respect everything, but it's just so frustrating to us because we can't... like some of my best friends are moving away, and I might never see them again like you never know. After high school, everybody goes their separate ways. So to be able to have our big day and graduate with each other and say our goodbyes and shed a few tears and be a lot for us with after this very stressful year.

CH: That was Halifax West 2021 grad Sophia Lane speaking with CBC Nova Scotia's Alex Guye.

[music: hip-hop beat]

Ban Myanmar Olympics

Guest: Win Htet Oo

CH: Win Htet Oo's lifelong dream has been to compete at the Olympics. And after years of competitive swimming, he finally qualified to represent Myanmar in next month's Tokyo Games. But after the military takeover in the country, he has had a change of heart. Win Htet Oo is now boycotting the games. And he's calling on the International Olympic Committee to ban Myanmar from participating. We reached Win Htet Oo in Melbourne, Australia.

CO: Win, I know you have been training and swimming for a very long time. So what does it take for you to turn down the opportunity to go to the Olympics?

WIN HTET OO: I've always dreamt about going to the Olympics ever since I was six when I learned about what the Olympics was and what it means to a country, and what it would mean for a Myanmar athlete, in particular, to go to the Olympics on… based on his own merits. And I've had to, unfortunately, turn down the chance of going to the Olympics because of the military coup in Myanmar and the association of the Myanmar Olympic Committee to the military regime in Myanmar.

CO: You did qualify for the Olympics, though, right?

WHO: Yes, I did. In 2019, the Southeast Asian Games, I qualified in the 50-metre freestyle.

CO: And so you were about to represent your country, Myanmar, in these Olympics. How difficult was it to come to this decision?

WHO: I like to describe it as the easiest difficult decision I've ever had in my life. I knew since February 1st that I wouldn't be able to participate in the Olympic Games under the Myanmar flag as long as the Myanmar Olympic Committee was controlled by the military regime in Myanmar.

CO: Your decision came when... just after the military coup in Myanmar, right?

WHO: Yes, the initial decision came around February 1st, but it took me a few weeks to draft the letter that I published on social media, deciding that I, you know, in public that I wouldn't participate.

CO: And what have you told the International Olympic Committee as to why you believe that you can't compete and why you should also that they should actually ban Myanmar from the Olympics?

WHO: Well, I think it stems from also my desire to protect the Olympic movement. The Myanmar Olympic Committee is controlled by the Myanmar Ministry of Health and Sport, which is now controlled by apologists to a military regime being accused of crimes against humanity. So the Myanmar Olympic Committee are active participants in the military regime in Myanmar. And I couldn't tolerate that being accepted in the Olympics. And I didn't see myself or other Myanmar athletes participating under their... under their offices.

CO: You've been training in Australia for these months, right?

WHO: Yes.

CO: What's it been like for you to watch what's been going on in your country from afar?

WHO: It's been very difficult since the events that have happened since February 1st. Since, pretty much every day, we wake up to more news of people being shot, people being killed, people being arrested. The violence is escalating. So it's been difficult to be so far away and digesting all the information, all the terrible news that's coming out of Myanmar.

CO: In fact, the Ministry of Health and Sport has the Olympic rings in its... within its logo of that ministry. What disturbs you about that?

WHO: You know, this is a ministry that tacitly supports the shooting of paramedics, the arrest of nurses, doctors and other medical associates. And all the while, they, you know, they continue to use the Olympic rings in their logo. It's almost as if the IOC is just accepting it with the Olympic rings being used in that way. You know, that's one of the points I raised. This is a breach of, you know, the Olympic charter.

CO: We've covered this over the months of the protests. And, as you say, that medical professionals were among the first to actually join the civil disobedience movement, and they met with a great deal of brutality. So that's what you've been watching. But you've also mentioned in your... in your petition, your letter, that this is a regime that is responsible for genocide. Are you referring to the Rohingya?

WHO: Yes, I am explicitly referring to the 2017 genocide of the Rohingya Muslims from western Myanmar and other acts of genocide against other ethnic minorities in Myanmar, particularly the Kachin, the Kokang people. This is a military regime that's been committing clearance operations, that's what they call it, which is really just ethnic cleansing operations and other crimes against humanity.

CO: So you've had to make this decision that you cannot represent, you cannot be in the Olympics under the flag of your country, right?

WHO: Yes.

CO: What are you asking the Olympic Committee to do?

WHO: I'm asking them to expel the Myanmar Olympic Committee from the Olympic movement, completely expel them. And I hope that that can lead to an international sports boycott of Myanmar.

CO: Are there any other athletes within the Myanmar team that are joining you in this?

WHO: There was a lot of Myanmar Olympic hopefuls that were a part of the civil disobedience movement. And they demonstrated their support against the military regime. And there have been other athletes that have been explicit... that have been targeted by the military regime, they've been subject to bomb blasts and shootings and arrests.

CO: What do you hearing back from the Olympic Committee as to your demand that they should exclude Myanmar from the Games?

WHO: So I haven't heard back anything from them in personal correspondence, but I'm trying to get the IOC to publicly come out with a statement about why they will either keep tolerating the Myanmar Olympic Committee or justify their reasons for tolerating them.

CO: So this statement, this petition, you have hundreds of people have signed on accusing the Myanmar of crimes against humanity and genocide. Is there... is there any... is there any precedent for the International Olympic Committee excluding a country because of such charges?

WHO: There are movements similar to mine to expel the Iranian Olympic Federation, for example, for the execution of an Iranian wrestler-athlete and other crimes that the Iranian regime has been committing. So I guess this is similar to those movements, those issues. But again, my case is that the Myanmar Olympic Committee is complicit with a genocide accused regime. And the IOC needs to listen to that case based on its own context.

CO: And so the... but the International Olympic Committee is saying that it's committed to the principles of political neutrality and that this isn't something it would do. Is that the response you're getting?

WHO: Yes, so they mentioned that they would continue recognizing the Myanmar Olympic Committee because of the principle of neutrality. My argument is that no organization at the same level as the International Olympic Committee, with the same clout as the International Olympic Committee, can use that argument to tolerate a genocide accused regime to be accepted in an event such as the Olympics.

CO: What is this going to do to your own career, your own future as an athlete, do you think?

WHO: I think, I'm being quite honest, I think it's... it's over to represent my country internationally in that way as an athlete. But, you know, I do sport because I love what sport makes me feel when I swim. So I'll keep swimming. But, you know, as a... as a high-performance athlete, I'm accepting that my career is over.

CO: Win, thanks for speaking with us.

WHO: Thank you so much.

CO: Take care.

WHO: Bye.

CH: Win Htet Oo is one of Myanmar's top swimmers. We reached him in Melbourne, Australia.

[music: world music]

Snowshoe On Sand Record

CH: You can take the Canadian out of Canada, but you can't take Canada out of the Canadian. As an Edmontonian, Nick Akers loves snowshoeing. Which is an activity that generally requires...snow. But Mr. Akers doesn't believe in playing by the rules. Last month, he pursued his beloved hobby on a tropical beach in Australia. And he pursued it very quickly. Quickly enough that he set a new Guinness World Record for the fastest 1-kilometre snowshoe on sand. Here's Nick Akers speaking to CBC Edmonton.

SOUNDCLIP

NICK AKERS: I used to snowshoe back in the 90s, and I set a Guinness World Record back then. And when I was in Darwin, I decided what better thing to do than to bring my snowshoes to Australia? So my wife arranged to send them out to me, and I went out there and tried to set a new world record. This happened in Mindil beach up in Darwin, and that's where I made my attempt. So the first try was at one mile. And then I decided that as I'm now 65, I would go down to the shortest distance of a kilometre.

MARK CONNOLLY: Snowshoeing isn't a common activity in tropical Australia, I understand. So what did the locals think?

NA: They're a great bunch. If you know Darwin, you'll have to appreciate that for 32 years, they were the undefeated ice hockey team.

MC: Oh!

NA: but they didn't have an ice hockey rink.

MC: Problem.

NA: So they won by default. They really embraced the fact that you've got a Canadian trying to break a world record in snowshoeing. And so, really, we just called it yellow snow. My nephew down in Sydney said, send me the snowshoes because I want to take a crack at that, too. And a couple of the local runners said, I can beat that time. So the biggest challenge for them is getting snowshoes into Australia.

MC: So Mindil Beach, what's that like? Was it... was it a good spot for the snowshoeing?

NA: Yeah, great stretch of beach. But you have to make sure that you're aware of when low tide and high tide is and always got to watch out for the crocodiles. My son said, Dad, you really need to get your world record back in the Guinness Book because it stood for 10 years in 1991 and was unbeaten and unchallenged. But that was the record I set down in Mill Creek when it was minus 28. And I took two minutes off the world record then. And this time around, it took two minutes, 11 seconds off the world record. People say, what are snowshoes? So you have to tell them, oh, it's like running tennis rackets on your feet. And then they begin to understand what it's all about. But we had a good turnout, so it was a lot of fun, and it was great to leave Australia and leave my mark with a Guinness World Record.

CH: That's Nick Akers speaking to Mark Connolly, the host of "Edmonton AM". Mr. Akers travelled one kilometre in snowshoes on sand in a world record time of 5 minutes and 41 seconds.

[music: acoustic guitar]

Edmonton Folk Festival

Guest: Terry Wickham

CH: Edmonton neighbourhoods are about to be the hottest live music venues around. Last summer, the Edmonton Folk Music Festival was cancelled, for obvious reasons. And when Terry Wickham realized the festival wouldn't be able to go ahead as usual once again, he got creative. The solution is called "Taking It to the Streets". Terry Wickham is the producer of the Edmonton Folk Music Festival. He is, as you'd guess, in Edmonton.

CO: Terry, if I want to hear some Folk Festival music in Edmonton this summer, where will I go?

TERRY WICKHAM: Well, you would apply to the Folk Festival for a street concert where, you know, we'll bring out the music and all the production and it's all free. And local hosts from the street will, you know, go around and check and make sure, you know, everybody's OK with it and that they'll move their cars and we'll... it'll be like a block party, but a block concert instead. And the idea would be that no matter what happens with AHS guidelines, which is our health care system here, you know, you know, people could sit on their lawns, whether that's five people or 10 people, you know, or maybe... maybe it breaks open a bit more and people can gather in, you know, 250 people. And then we can set up a stage and then people can put chairs in front of it.

CO: What!! I’ll have 250 people on my lawn?!

TW: No, no. If... if the guidelines are that you can have 250 people gathering. Right now, it's 10 people can gather on a lawn. And say, if you have... if you have 20 houses on your street, then 200 people could potentially go to it. And, of course, we'll have a really good sound system there and we'll have delay speakers so that no matter where you are on the street, you'll get good sound.

CO: So this is... could be on anyone's street in Edmonton and you'll actually show up... you'll do everything yourself. It’s not like you have to have to do anything, set up microphone stands yourself. Everything gets done for you. And then you have a street concert, you have a street show?

TW: Yeah, we're going to have two artists for each of these concerts with maybe a 15, 20-minute break where the artists can maybe sell some of their merch. The... all the artists will be in solo, duo or trio format. So it'll be pretty folky. And, yeah, everything... we're paying for everything. We’ll bring out the production, we’ll bring the artists, will bring the mics and chords and delay speakers and we'll provide insurance. Really, you just have to get your... see that your neighbours are on board or on side and that, you know, they'll move maybe their cars off the street so it makes it look a little bit better.

CO: How many of these concerts -- these street concerts -- do you plan to have?

TW: Well, 40 at this point. I... you know, based on this morning, I think the demand will far outstrip that. We did get funding for 50,000 dollars from EPCOR, a local... our local utility here, and we matched it. So, you know, it's a 100,000 dollar program at this point. You know, hopefully... well, we may expand it if we get, you know, a lot of interest, which seems to be the case. But we have guaranteed that at least 80,000 dollars of that $100,000 will make it into the hands of the Edmonton musicians that are playing.

CO: Wow! What does that mean for them, given how this past 15 months have gone?

TW: Well, I think, you know, governments have been very good, you know, with the CERB and all that, I have to say. Canada has been great, and they've been good on funding with... with festivals like ours. So I feel like we have to give something back. So, you know, I think it'll... you know, I think it'll feel pretty good to have a show delivered to your, you know, basically to your backyard. We're just going to have to be flexible on our feet, depending on what the numbers are in Alberta, you know, post-Stampede, et cetera, et cetera.

CO: Why post-Stampede? What is that? How does that affect you?

TW: Well, I think it has the potential to be, you know, a super-spreader event. So we don't know what a full opening in Alberta will do to the numbers. And we'll have to be sensitive to that. But no matter what, even if it's only five people gathering on your lawn or 10, you know, this is not... this won't be cancelled. The only thing that can cancel these shows are the weather. And we'll have back up days for that.

CO: Wow! So you're covering all your bases. So basically, if no matter what kind of lockdown or opening exists in Edmonton, you figure you can... you can be flexible? You can find either an audience of five or an audience of 250?

TW: Absolutely. You know, last year it was 250 people could meet and it may be that again. But if it's five people, well then people can be on the front lines and the speakers will be set up along the street, you know, a range of them. And you'll... you know... you'll get a free concert for two hours. And yeah, the idea is I didn't want to put any more pressure on AHS. People are looking for exemptions all over the place, and I just figured, you know, whatever... whatever the guidelines are, we can live with them. And of course, if people are on their own lawns, then they can take care of their own safety in their own toilet needs, their own hand sanitizer needs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

CO: And I guess if it's a folk festival, you're not expecting the acts to show up with big drum kits or electric guitars?

TW: Well, you know, folk, the definition of folk music has kind of changed. So, you know, there will be allowances for some guitars and drum kits, but we're hoping more percussion than... than a full drum kit. But we do have some blues artists that have confirmed, you know, we also have, you know, Celeigh Cardinal, who is a Juno Award winner for Indigenous music last year, not this year. So we'll have a good representation of... of Edmonton out there for sure.

CO: And so how much do you miss putting on that big folk festival?

TW: More than I can say. You know, we're really happy with it. You know, people like John Prine that was going to close the 2020 show, but, of course, you know, we lost him to the virus. And, you know, probably the nicest phone call I ever got at the office was when a journalist phoned me and said, John Prine says your festival is the best in the world. And people like Brandi Carlile feel that. Now, we don't compare ourselves to classical festivals, only other folk festivals. But Edmonton is a very special community that way, and Canada's very special, too, in terms of hospitality and all of that. So, yeah, we miss it and… but we'll get back there. And I'm sure we'll come back strongly.

CO: All right, Terry, well it sounds like it's going to be fun nonetheless. So thanks for speaking with us and telling us about the Edmonton Folk Festival for this year.

TW: Thank you very much, Carol.

CO: Bye-bye.

TW: Bye now.

CH: Terry Wickham is the producer of the Edmonton Folk Music Festival

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June 8, 2021 Episode Transcript

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