Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2021

The AIH Transcript for June 1, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Proceeding with caution. Amid calls to examine residential school sites across the country, a Métis archaeologist stresses the immense care these sorts of investigations require.

CH B.B. gunning. Two Israeli political opponents have united in an effort to oust Benjamin Netanyahu after 12 years in power -- but our guest says you can't count the long time PM out until the deal is done.

CO: Failure to raunch. The linguist behind the new Cambridge Greek Lexicon says he included the definitions for words that the ancient Greeks intended -- not the cleaned up, euphemistic versions we relied on to date.

CH: Drama queen. Governor General's Literary Award winner Kim Senklip Harvey reflects on her winning play -- “Kamloopa: An Indigenous Matriarch’s Story” -- and the timing of today's recognition.

CO: Heart and Soles. Whether he was playing a misfit elf, a teenaged superhero or the co-host of “As It Happens”, the late Paul Soles brought warmth and personality to every one of his performances over a 70-year career.

CH: And... flying in the face of convention, and the face of everything else. We hear from a clarinettist who doesn't just admire cicadas, he collaborates with them. So we'll reach him in a field surrounded by Brood 10 for a very live performance.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Tuesday edition. Radio that figures they're already bigger than the Beatles.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Burial Radar, GG Drama Winner, Ancient Greek Dictionary

Burial Radar

Guest: Kisha Supernant

CH: A warning to our listeners, that our first story tonight is about the search for remains at residential schools. As you've been hearing, Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation says it has discovered the remains of hundreds of children at a former residential school in Kamloops, BC. The preliminary findings were made by a specialist in ground-penetrating radar. That is work that Kisha Supernant is very familiar with. A few years back, the Metis archaeologist and her team worked to find the remains of students at a residential school in Saskatchewan. She's the director of the Institute of Prairie and Indigenous Archaeology at the University of Alberta. We reached her in Edmonton.

CO: Professor Supernant, when we spoke with you in 2019, you described similar work you were involved with in Saskatchewan. So what went through your mind when you heard what had been found in Kamloops?

KISHA SUPERNANT: Like many of us, I think I was very heartbroken and devastated to hear of the scope and scale of the finds at the Kamloops Indian Residential School. But I cannot say I was shocked or surprised at the news, having done this work in other contexts.

CO: We've heard this from many Indigenous people that this doesn't come as a surprise to any of them. All the people who have known, who have heard the stories anecdotally. Everything that came out during Truth and Reconciliation about the neglect, the disease, the illnesses, the torture these children were subjected to, experiments, all of it's documented. So it doesn't come as a surprise. But does it help at all knowing that this is now confirmed that these things happened?

KS: I think it helps in part because it is bringing the reality of this to the attention of non-Indigenous Canadians. And I think there is value in demonstrating how widespread that the neglect and the abuse was. So I think there's a certain power to this type of work to actually show where these gravesites are because it reminds non-Indigenous Canadians of these stories. I would hope for a day where we wouldn't need to rely exclusively on scientific evidence to confirm the stories that the survivors already have. But there's also elements of this work that can support the calls for justice and accountability as well.

CO: But at the same time, what are the emotions that this brings up in the community members?

KS: I mean, I can speak for myself both from a personal perspective as a Métis woman and also my experiences working with communities. It is really difficult to hear this news. So many of my Indigenous relatives and friends are really struggling right now, and the emotional response has been really strong. A lot of it brings up the trauma for survivors and their families as well, and many of us carry that intergenerational trauma. So it is a very sensitive subject. It is something that does have the potential to bring up these... these traumas and to reopen some of these old wounds as well.

CO: This technology that was used -- this ground-penetrating radar -- that has made this preliminary discovery of these remains in Kamloops, is that the same technology that you have used?

KS: Yes, the projects I've done both at the Muscowequan Indian Residential School and for other nations at unmarked burials has used ground-penetrating radar. It is the most common technology used, at least in the Canadian context, to help locate unmarked graves.

CO: And so is this something that you expect to see happen at all the residential schools? Many are calling for that. This has to be examined in the same way as it was in Kamloops.

KS: I think it is really important that Indigenous communities who wish this work to be done around the schools that the relatives attended have the resources, the support and the expertise to do these surveys. But I think it must come from communities. I think we have to be careful to say it must happen around all schools. Yes, if communities want it to because this is such a sensitive topic. And many communities have done work around their own residential schools in a variety of ways. So I think we need to respect the fact that for some communities, this may not be how they wish to proceed. But if they do wish to proceed this way, they absolutely should have access to funds, resources, the technology itself and experts to support them in doing this difficult work.

CO: Is there a desire to see that the remains are not disturbed anymore, that they... that this should be the final resting place for these... these children? Or is there in anywhere a desire to see them exhumed, moved to a different location or anything like that?

KS: I think there'll be different ways in that communities will want to proceed with this. I think in some cases, it's likely that this will be enough to sort of say this is where the children are. There can be commemoration that will happen. There can be healing ceremonies and other things that can happen. I do think other communities will want to pursue other options, whether it be taking these children to a more appropriate burial place and doing the ceremonies, potentially identifying some information about those children, including trying to track down living relatives, or there's also the possibility of looking at questions around cause of death in some cases. And, you know, some communities are really calling for this in order to pursue justice, right? To... to hold accountable those who harmed the children.

CO: And this is key, isn't it? Because in order to do that, there is a forensic process, isn't there, to determine these as crimes, as what happened to these children, as we've heard from all the other testimonies, that there was criminal elements that led to these deaths. And that those who were culpable, those who are guilty of this, even if it's not possible to bring those convictions, is that something is possible through this kind of technology?

KS: So with the... the radar, it is not. But the radar gives us a place to pursue those other options, those more forensic options where, you know, the children could be exhumed and examined based on forensic methods, potential for things like DNA analysis. Again, these are very, very difficult things to work on. And communities have to really decide that this is what they want to pursue. And then survivors and families have to be given the supports that's needed. Because this... if you think hearing a story of 215 children in... in Kamloops is painful, imagine when it becomes thousands of children whose remains are being exhumed and who are undergoing these types of investigations. The scope and scale of it really is... is quite significant. And I, again, I just really have to emphasize that communities have to be ready, and they have to want to do this and that we shouldn't assume that all communities will want to go down this particular path. But when they do, we need to ensure that they're supported to do so.

CO: Professor Supernant, I appreciate speaking with you. I appreciate your work as well. Thank you.

KS: Thank you for having me.

CH: That was University of Alberta anthropology professor, Kisha Supernant, in Edmonton.

[music: Spanish guitar]

GG Drama Winner

Guest: Kim Senklip Harvey

CH: "Kamloopa" is a play. And it's also a journey -- one that invites the audience to tag along with cast and crew -- or "Fire Igniters" and "Fire Tenders", as Kim Senklip Harvey calls them. She's the playwright. Although she prefers the moniker "Fire Creator". And if "Kamloopa" is any indication, that's a fitting title. The play is powerfully profound and profoundly funny. It's also incredibly timely. And today, it won the Governor General's Literary Award for Drama. Kim Senklip Harvey is a member of the Syilx and Tsilhqot'in Nations. We reached her in Vancouver.

CO: Kim, first of all, [punched] BIG congratulations.

KIM SENKLIP HARVEY: [chuckling] Thank you.

CO: How did you feel when you learned?

KSH: It was a mortifyingly embarrassing moment between me and like a granting officer at the Canada Council. [chuckling] I didn't expect for this to happen, but I burst into tears... burst into tears, and then she had to go through a bit of administrative stuff while I was weeping. [both laugh]

CO: Why were you weeping?

KSH: I think for me, as an Indigenous woman who is working in a sector that's not built for me, writing and working and creating is difficult. And any success of an Indigenous person or racialized person is a big... is a big deal. And the work is much, and it felt like a moment of respite, a moment of nourishment, a moment when the system finally said, we appreciate, respect and would like to celebrate what you're doing. And in a career that's been much of a battle, it kind of felt like a relief, like I could take a seat for a minute and get my bearings.

CO: It's also... this announcement has come in a very difficult week, hasn't it?

KSH: Absolutely. I think now more than ever, Indigenous people's stories need to be illuminated and articulated by us for our people. And that's really what “Kamloopa” is to me. I wrote it for my people. I come from the Syilx Nation, which is 30 minutes from that residential school. I had family members attend there and other residential schools. And the emotionality of it is that I'm the first generation in my family to not attend residential schools. And in one generation, this is what’s possible. And I think it is complicated this week in terms of honouring those children who weren't given the opportunities to have a full life. And that I am in service and live a full life out of respect to them and their families.

CO: This play is “Kamloopa” -- the story of two sisters and the friend they meet. Can you tell us a bit about the story?

KSH: I wrote “Kamloopa” For anyone who's struggling to have the courage to be who they are. As... you know, 70 per cent of Indigenous people live off the reservation now. And I wasn't seeing any narrative that represented the displacement and the diaspora of who we are. A lot of us are struggling to reclaim culture, to find out where we come from, to return home. And I wanted to write a story that showed the power and perseverance, and tenacity of us. Kilawna and Mikaya are two sisters who are really two voices that I believe exist in all of us. One voice who desperately needs to be who they are because it's literally killing them from the inside out. And the other voice inside of us all who says, don't do it, you'll fail. People will make fun of you. It's not right. And this battle that exists between them to finally have the courage to be who they are. And they meet “Indian Friend Number One”, who we find out is named Edith, which is actually after my great grandmother, who is a Tsilhqot'in warrior. And this triad of Indigenous love and matriarchy and relationship was also something I wanted to write about to celebrate the unity and love that exists within the Indigenous community that is not often seen. You know, our plight and pain is often what the narratives are structured around, but that's not my life, that's not what I have. I have sisters and cousins and aunties and grandmothers who give love, who support one another. And yes, our lives are challenging. Yes, they are turbulent. Yes, we have experienced trauma, but they do not define us. And I wrote “Kamloopa” to refuse that narrative that we are just our pain and an oppressed peoples. We are joyous, we are loving, we are funny. [chuckling] And I'm glad that they're celebrating “Kamloopa” for the comedy.

CO: And that is [chuckling] exactly what has been so striking about this play, is that it's funny and it's joyous. [KSH laughs] It's... it's all of those things. And how important was that for you that there should be laughter among all the pain that people are trying to deal with right now?

KSH: I’ve spent the large part of my career acting in plays and seeing TV shows and films that just have us dying and crying. And I think that's really dangerous to represent an entire population that way. It's a misrepresentation. It was everything for me to show these women, to show Indigenous peoples who were laughing and creating jokes in the muck of life. Because that's what my life is! My mom is cracking jokes at funerals. Some of the best jokes I ever heard have been at an Indian funeral. But also as a producer and a director and a writer, I also believe that comedy is the way into people's hearts and spirits. I think people change the channel when they're being shamed, and I understand it. It's hard to open your heart when you're being pointed at and yelled at. Shaming people into transforming is not going to work. And I firmly believe the only reason “Kamloopa” really worked in this forum is because we spent the first 80 minutes cracking jokes and laughing together and the last 10 minutes finally getting to people's hearts to say we must do better by one another.

CO: You actually held the first-ever reading of “Kamloopa” at the... at the Pow Wow Arbour in Kamloops. And I'm just wondering when you think back on that reading now, since this week, since the discovery of the remains of those children, the 215 children at the residential school, what connects for you now about that moment?

KSH: That continues to be one of the most profound theatrical experiences of my career, not because it was my play, but because the ancestors arrived and were there. You can ask anyone in the Fire Company. After we finished that reading, it was so emotional. We smudged the whole Arbour. We smudged ourselves. And we knew that because we felt the ancestors came to bear witness. And now, in hindsight, we could feel those young kids because the school looks right over it, running down that hill, coming into the Arbour and telling them a story. And I feel very grateful and sad and honoured that we got to tell “Kamloopa” for the first time for those little ancestors.

CO: When you heard the news this week, did all that come back for you?

KSH: Indigenous people have known about the gravity and impact, and severity of genocide at these residential schools. So it wasn't news to us. in terms of where they were found and how many was news. And I honoured the Tk'emlúps Indian Band for doing that diligence and figuring that out. What's most disappointing is that this is news to the general public and the details of it and the severity of how violated and harmed Indigenous people were. And I think the healing and the transformation is something that has to happen for non-Indigenous people because we've been working on it since it's happened to us.

CO: The award that you have received -- the Governor General's Award -- for this play, for your theatre, for your work is... is, I guess, a really great honour. But at the same time, we need to see this play. [both laughing] We need to for the very reasons you're just describing. And... and when will it be produced again? When... how can people actually be able to watch this show?

KSH: Well, you know, the pandemic has all but collapsed the theatre industry. Film has been able to get back to work. You know, radio has been. But theatre, live audiences sharing air and space has really not been afforded to us. There were talks of a remount. Even this morning, I had some producers asking for a national tour. So we will get it to you as soon as we can and as soon as it's safe. I've also adapted it into a pilot and hoping for that to get picked up to turn into a six-part miniseries because the story does need to get out to people. But you can also buy it from your local bookstore or go to Town Books. But “Kamloopa” is but one part of it. I'm more interested in the conversations we have afterwards, and I'm so honoured to be able to have this one with you.

CO: Well, reading it is one thing. Being able to see the staging of this would be remarkable. And I look forward to that opportunity, Kim. Again, big congratulations and thank you.

KSH: [ speaking an Indigenous message of thanks] From my ancestors to yours, thank you so much.

CO: Bye-bye.

KSH: Bye.

CH: Kim Senklip Harvey is the playwright and "Fire Creator behind "Kamloopa: An Indigenous Matriarch Story". It won the Governor General's Literary Award for Drama today -- and is published by Talonbooks. We reached Ms. Senklip Harvey in Vancouver.

[music: ambient]

Ancient Greek Dictionary

Guest: James Diggle

CH: At first, they thought it would be a five-year project. A team at the University of Cambridge set out to revise an Ancient Greek-to-English dictionary from the nineteenth century -- that was still being used by students. Well, that was in 1997. And now -- 24 years later -- the new Cambridge Greek Lexicon has been published. And unlike the previous dictionary, it contains some definitions that don't pander to delicate Victorian sensibilities. They're much more accurate. And much more vulgar. James Diggle is an emeritus professor of Greek and Latin at Cambridge, and the editor-in-chief of the Cambridge Greek Lexicon. We reached him in Cambridge, England.

CO: James, what was that moment like when you finally finished this and gave the publishers an OK to start printing?

JAMES DIGGLE: Well, it was a moment of enormous relief and delight because for at least 15 years, the project had taken over my life, and I'd had time for nothing else.

CO: You told The Guardian that you wept with joy at that moment.

JD: Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's not an overstatement.

CO: Why was this so important to you? Why did you dedicate so much of your life this past 15 years, at least to this project?

JD: Well, I was involved with it from the very start, but at the start, it was a fairly modest project. I was simply chairman of a management committee, but we quickly discovered that the original conception that we had, which was to revise an existing dictionary, was a non-starter. It couldn't be revised. If we were to do anything worth doing, we would have to start again from scratch. And that entailed going back to the original sources, that is, reading, in effect, the whole of Greek literature again -- something that had never been done before. And once we embarked on this, we realized the magnitude of the task, and I became more and more involved myself.

CO: This is a dictionary that is from 1889, "The Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon". What's wrong with it? Why did it need... I mean, words are words, right? So why did it need to be updated?

JD: Because it was never very satisfactory, that late 19th-century lexicon. It was simply an abbreviated version of the parent lexicon, which had been published about 50 years before. Now the parent lexicon has been continuously revised. That intermediate lexicon was based on the edition that was in print of the larger one at that time -- that is, late 19th century. And it's antiquated in concept and in content. It's an uncritical abridgement of its parent lexicon. Much of the language that it uses is old-fashioned. It's the kind of language that was used by Victorian school teachers, perhaps. And it simply doesn't cover enough of the literature for the needs of modern students.

CO: I understand that a lot of the words they put through the filter of a very uptight Victorian sensibilities, right? Some... so the translations of… a lot was lost in the translation. So can you give us some examples of some of the words that you call antiquated, but that were sort of, I guess, the naughty words that they weren't comfortable with?

JD: Well, to take a reasonably innocent one, there's a verb, χέζω, which is translated by the lexicon that we are superseding as to do one's business, to ease oneself. Well, we simply translated as to [censored]. Or you might take a rather more vulgar word, a verb, βινέω, which the lexicon we are superseding is very coy about. It starts off by giving two translations of it in Latin, inire, and coire, and then adds of illicit intercourse, which is actually strictly right. We simply translated by the "F-word" because that's what it means. It's a very crude word.

CO: OK, so this was what the Greeks intended, right? So it all got cleaned up by the Victorians.

JD: Oh yes! Yeah. I mean, we aim to get the flavour of the original words. And to do that we have to use modern English, even if that English is a bit... a bit vulgar. [chuckling]

CO: There's another one --

JD: That's what the Greek were.

CO: Right, there's another interesting one that it's been translated "to wench", which is actually --

JD: Oh yes. Yeah!

CO: [chuckling] Can you tell us that one?

JD: To wench, yes! Well, actually, the Victorians didn't know what the verb meant. And so to wench was... well, it sort of doesn't even get anywhere near what it really means, which is in our definition of it, is to perform fellatio. But we do give a very much more crude and modern version of what that actually means.

CO: Mmm-hmm, I think you actually say that it means to suck on a certain body part?

JD: That's right. That's right. Yes. Yes. Well, that's the first time that would have appeared in our dictionary.

CO: [giggling] OK, so, I mean, "The Odyssey" of Homer, for instance, I mean, has it been sanitized? I don't remember all of these kinds of naughty words being there.

JD: Oh, no, no, no, no. You don't get them in Homer. The naughty words largely appear in the comic poet Aristophanes.

CO: OK, and so does this mean that now you... that readers, I mean, students are going to have a different understanding of the classics?

JD: Well, I think that they're going to find it easier to get the senses and the flavours of words from our lexicon.

CO: And so will they find that there's…. now, if they can read it in the ancient Greek with the right translations, that works of the "Lysistrata" will be even more erotic?

JD: Oh, yes, it should give them very, very much easier comprehension of what they read on the text of Aristophanes. And Aristophanes' "Lysistrata".

CO: OK, I have to say, at least some of these past 15 years of this work must have been fun for you?

JD: [chuckling] Well, I learned a lot of Greek because I had to read authors and texts that I never got round to reading before. Some, it was fun. But for the most part, it was a unremitting hard labour. You remember what Dr. Johnson defined the lexicographer as? He defined the lexicographer as a harmless drudge. Well, it certainly entails drudgery.

CO: Well, you must have learned a few more dirty words, though?

JD: [laughing] I think I was already familiar with them. [both laughing]

CO: I think so, too.

JD: But wasn't used to translating them in this way. [chuckling]

CO: James is fun to talk to you, and congratulations on being finished. Thank you.

JD: Oh, thank you.

CO: Bye-bye.

JD: Goodbye.

CH: James Diggle is the editor-in-chief of the Cambridge Greek Lexicon. We reached him in Cambridge, England. You can find more on that story -- which you definitely want to see -- on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: jazz]

Part 2: Israel Power Sharing, Cicada Clarinetist

Israel Power Sharing

Guest: Dahlia Schiendlin

CH: It looks like it may finally be the end of the road for Benjamin Netanyahu -- again. Israel's prime minister has proven a great political survivor. He's remained in power for 12 years in the face of war, corruption charges, and many, many elections. Now, two other political leaders have united to try to oust him. And they have until tomorrow to finalize the deal. Dahlia Schiendlin is a political commentator and consultant. We reached her in Tel Aviv.

CO: Dahlia, should anyone count Benjamin Netanyahu out yet?

DAHLIA SCHIENDLIN: Every moment, it looks a little more likely that the opposition parties led by Yair Lapid will be able to form a government. We're all asking ourselves, I think, that same question. Because up until now, he has managed to find, you know, by hook or by crook some way to stay in power. Despite not having won a majority after four election cycles. He is considered sort of a magician in his ability to retain power. But time may be running out.

CO: What then becomes of Mr. Netanyahu? I mean, he does face these corruption charges, right?

DS: Yes, he faces corruption charges. Not only does he face them, but he's currently standing trial. What happens to him is not clear. He has different options. He can resign from politics if he wants and stand trial, which is what I think, you know, many people would have expected would happen in another country or maybe a different kind of leader. But it's definitely not his style to back out of anything. So it's a bit of a mystery.

CO: Can you tell us a bit about what this coalition might do? First of all, tell us these two men, Yair Lapid, Naftali Bennett, who are they and what do they represent?

DS: Well, this is a good question. Yair Lapid is considered a centrist in the Israeli ideological spectrum. What that means is that he has not made the issue of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict terribly central to his platform. He broadly is seen to represent a big mainstream camp of Israelis who are mostly secular but not gone to leftists who are committed to improving the situation of the middle-class. And they're not heavy ideologues on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And therefore, yet, Yair Lapid hasn't taken particularly strong positions on that issue other than basically supporting a two-state solution but not indicating that he would do anything active by way of pursuing it. Now, that stands in contrast to Naftali Bennett, who is one of the unlikely partners. Naftali Bennett represents a far-right-wing nationalist ideology. He began as the leader of a party called the Jewish Home, which essentially represented what we call religious Zionists in Israel. So people who are firmly, ideologically and religiously opposed to any sort of reconciliation with the Palestinians based on a two-state solution. He was advancing Israeli annexation of large parts of the West Bank as far back as 2013. And he takes an uncompromising, rather militarist line towards the issue of the Palestinians. He was, of course, a supporter of Netanyahu. He's also a Netanyahu Protege. This is the party that broke with him on Netanyahu’s loyalist block of parties in order to basically make this change coalition possible. They would not have had a sufficient number of seats without Naftali Bennett’s party.

CO: As far as the coalition, as far as being able to hold together, they'll look for common ground for a whole series of domestic issues that Israel, like any other country, would be dealing with. From an international point of view, the question is, where do they stand on the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts, especially since we've just witnessed a really disturbing, troubling 11 days of war in between Gaza and Israel. And so would any of this... would this coalition in any way improve the... the lives of Palestinians?

DS: It's very unlikely, to be honest. Partly because there are such great ideological differences, again, when I talk about left, right, and centre, the primary defining line between those is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And we haven't even mentioned the fact that this government would rely on the support from an Arab-Muslim party representing the Islamic movement in Israel and representing Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, which will make this issue even more thorny. And as you pointed out, while they may be able to come to some maybe fraught agreements on some domestic issues, the two left-wing parties are openly supportive of a two-state solution. But that solution looks extremely remote right now. And again, on the right-wing flank, we have at least one party which is openly annexationist. Those two ideas cannot live together. And, you know, with so many parties in a coalition, if one of them took a very strong stance, any small parties who bolts the coalition could bring the government down.

CO: And so basically, also settlements, this would not be the coalition government that would slow down the establishment or the extension of settlements in the occupied territories?

DS: I mean, this is where it gets complicated. In the past, we used to talk about slowing down or even evacuating settlements. Right now, we're talking about several right-wing parties… or at least two, whose vision is at least to expand them and at best might consider slowing them down. We haven't even had the concept of a settlement freeze in Israeli discourse in years. And so, if you take the average of the positions of the parties that support two states and the parties that want to move full-steam ahead and build more settlements and annex, at best, you might see a slowing down. And only that, I imagine, under particular circumstances, such as American pressure or, you know, other forms of external pressure, which I don't think can cause a seat change in Israeli politics, but maybe could cause the government to slow down. Or if there is some sort of negotiation with any of the Palestinian leaders, for example, we've been seeing over the last few days that there is a possibility that one Hamas figure is talking about a negotiation for returning the bodies of captured soldiers or living…. a small number of Israelis who are being held by Hamas in Gaza. If those negotiations were to continue, even under this kind of government, maybe you could see a slowing down of settlements if it becomes part of such a negotiation. But I would say it's far-fetched right now even to imagine that. There may be small changes. The question is, will that be leading to any overall longer-term political resolution in a comprehensive way? And from this government, I doubt it.

CO: Just finally, and I guess just briefly, what… [chuckling] do you want to put any money on how this is going to end in the next day or two?

DS: Yeah, I mean, it does look increasingly likely from all the little titbits we're getting from these meetings that are being held at a feverish pace throughout the day. It does look increasingly likely that by tomorrow that Yair Lapid will announce to the president that he is confident that he is able to form a government. He’s got sufficient agreement to form this fraught, uncomfortable coalition, calling itself the change coalition. And in that case, that will set off a process of moving through the up to a week-long process of Knesset swearing in the new government. So it does look more likely right now. If just two weeks ago or three weeks ago, we thought it was almost a dead option. It looks like it has managed to revive itself, and Israel might be facing for the first time the government not led by Netanyahu or the Likud.

CO: All right. We will be watching. Dahlia, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

DS: Thank you so much.

CH: Dahlia Schiendlin is a political commentator and consultant. She was in Tel Aviv.

[music: horns!!!]

Edmonton Elkssssssssssssssssssss-es

CH: Football fans in Edmonton finally have a team name that's not racist, outdated, or out-of-touch. After years of debate, the team has changed its name from an outmoded -- and offensive -- term for northern Indigenous people. On the table for the new name were six possibilities: the Elements, the Elks, the Evergreens, the Evergolds, the Elkhounds, and the Eclipse. I'll let this high-octane promotional video released by the team today deliver the news.

SOUNDCLIP

[music: is this from “Mission Impossible”?]

ANNOUNCER: You can feel it in the air. A chill. [hello, it’s Edmonton calling] A stir. You can see it in their eyes. A drive. A hunger. There's an energy in the distance, a rumble, a roar. It’s closer. When our heads are down, you know it's on!

[music swells]

ANNOUNCER: We're on. Nothing can stop us. Nothing will. We are 14 Grey Cup strong, with a hunger for more. The team you know and love.

PLAYER: The city of champions, right?

ANNOUNCER: New name. The same game. Proud as ever. Bolder than ever. As fierce as they come. And we're calling all challengers, we are… [very dramatic pause] The Edmonton Elks.

CH: [imitating the announcer voice] There you have it. The Edmonton football team announcing their new name -- [chuckling] after a long pause -- the Edmonton Elks. Which may sound weird, but according to the Canadian Dictionary, is an acceptable pluralization of "elk".

[music: bluegrass]

Cicada Clarinetist

Guest: David Rothenberg

CH: It's been years since clarinetist David Rothenberg jammed with his buddies. This weekend, the band was finally back together. With several million amateurs sitting in. Here's what that concert sounded like from Princeton New Jersey.

SOUNDCLIP

[sound: a clarinet plays a song that you would likely hear in an “Indiana Jones” movie… only there’s shakers in the background. Oh… and the buzz of several cicadas]

CH: That's David Rothenberg on clarinet, John Wieczorak on percussion, and backing vocals by a choir of millions of Brood 10 cicadas. They're now emerging after spending 17 years underground -- and Mr. Rothenberg couldn't be more excited. He's a professor of philosophy and music at the New Jersey Institute of Technology. And he is completely obsessed with cicadas, and making music with them. So much so, that he's back in the field for an encore. We reached him, clarinet in hand, surrounded by cicadas, in Princeton, New Jersey.

CO: David, we just heard a bit of you and your backup band, "The Cicadas", and it sounds very spooky. Is that your intent?

DAVID ROTHENBERG: Well, is it spooky, or is it just like playing along with the rhythm of the universe, the rhythm of nature? That's what's going on out there. There's literally millions of cicadas out right here in this park in Princeton, New Jersey. And it's just a wash of noise and drone. And it's familiar musical elements from human music, but it's tiny little insects that are making it, [CO chuckles] as they have been for millions of years.

CO: All right. You are there right now with Brood 10. Can we have a listen?

DR: Yeah, OK, here we go. Direct.

[sound: a number of differing cicada chirps and buzzes]

CO: OK, wow. You know, it's interesting. You can't capture the whole big sound, can you? Just that... that's... that's just little individuals.

DR: What happens is, as you know, these phones block out background noise by default. So they tend to make the background quiet. But any other kind of recording device captures this whole wash of noise.

CO: These guys, you've been waiting for these guys to come out and play with you for 17 years, right?

DR: That's true. But of course, every year, they come out somewhere. It's different broods. This is Brood X, Brood 10. And Brood Two came out [cicada buzzes] just a few years ago in 2013. So… and 2016. And then here we have more of individual different species. And so every year you can find them somewhere, you know? So if you become a cicada groupie, then it's like following the Grateful Dead around. You know, every year you go somewhere else, they're going to be there. A different brood comes up. Basically, the same three species, but there's some difference to it, different places. And there's not so many people who play music with them. But I think there are a lot of people who play music that builds on drones and noise like this all over the world in many different cultures. It's not an unmusical sound we're talking about.

CO: When you're out there playing with them, how do they respond? [laughing] Are they aware of you?

DR: Hard to tell. You know, in general, I have to say no. They're responding to their massive sound altogether. But it's had not to notice certain sounds they make, particularly electronic sounds. They really seem to directly respond to that. But does that matter? Can you actually tell, or is it just like joining in?

CO: Do they get up your nose or up your clarinet?

DR: They climb on top of the clarinet. They sort of like it because it's like the branch of a tree. They climb onto your head. They sit next to your ears and sing. They like to climb onto phones and join the conversation like they are right now. [a buzz] That's not static on the call, but actually a cicada. So... so this kind of stuff.

CO: You're not just a cicada groupie. You're a cicada baby, right? Born in the year of the cicadas?

DR: How do you know that?!

CO: We know everything here.

DR: [chuckling] I was born in a year of the cicadas. I was born in 1962. So 62 and 79 and 96 and 2013 are Brood Two cicada babies like myself.

CO: When did you start playing music with them?

DR: I think 2011 when I decided I was going to write a book called "Bug Music", and I decided I was going to come out in 2013 in my cicada year. And so I went to the Midwest where I believe Brood 13, I believe were coming out. And those were 13-year cicadas. Go figure, why 13, why 17. And that was pretty extraordinary. And then I went in to 2012 to Virginia, we made a film called "Song of the Cicadas". It just goes on. How can you stop? Once you get bitten by the cicada bug, there's no escape.

CO: [chuckling] What is it that fascinates you so much about them?

DR: Nobody can explain this. Crazy! Why would insect come out once every 17 years in such large numbers? How could this possibly be going on? What is this... why did nature evolve such a thing? It's just a mystery. We don't really know why. We're trying to figure it out, but we don't know why. It's so unusual and strange. And really tunes you into a very strange but beautiful kind of sound.

CO: Do you think the cicadas might think that it's a mystery as to why this man comes out and plays the... plays the clarinet with them?

DR: I think they're very confident about themselves. Like, yes! Seventeen years! I counted. [CO chuckles] I came out the right time. I'm with it. Who cares what this crazy person is doing? I got more important things to do, like sing, fly, mate, die.

CO: Yeah, have sex, have babies and then leave.

DR: And die! And the babies live?

CO: [laughing] All right, David. It's time for you to play with this clarinet with your backup band. Can you do that for us?

DR: Let's see what happens!

[Sound: call and response between a clarinet and cicadas]

CO: Well, I think you calmed them right down. [laughing]

DR: I'd nearly fell on top of them. They were a little worried about that! [CO chuckles] We're just getting all our other equipment out. And, of course, we could easily send you recordings with this whole wash of sound around if you feel the phone is grasping it.

CO: the sound is coming through loud and clear. David, it's fun to talk to you. Thank you so much. I'll let you get back to your performance. [chuckling]

DR: Thank you so much for calling. Great!

CO: Bye.

DR: Bye.

CH: David Rothenberg is a clarinetist and professor of philosophy and music at the New Jersey Institute of Technology. Who is outstanding in his field. We reached him in Princeton, New Jersey. And to hear Mr. Rothenberg and his cicada backing band again, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: light rock]

Obit: Paul Soles

CH: If you were a kid in the 'sixties, you probably knew him from this show.

SOUNDCLIP

KID: You're Spider-Man, ain’t cha?

PAUL SOLES: That's right.

KID: You think I could become a real crime fighter like you?

PS Sure you could! It's easy!

CH: And if you were an adult in the 'sixties, you probably knew him from this show.

[music: a beeping future computer]

ANNA CAMERON: Paul, I have the feeling we're being taken over by a giant computer.

PS: Nonsense. No machine will ever replace a live TV performer.

WOMAN: Now, just wait. We are having a live machine of a guest today on “Take 30”!

PS: Great galloping electronics!

CH: And if you've been a kid or an adult at some point over the past several decades, and you watch Christmas specials, you probably know him from this.

SOUNDCLIP

MAN: Do you mind telling me what you do want to do?

PS: Well, Sir. Someday, I'd like to be a dentist.

MAN: A dentist!

PS: Well, we need one up here. I've been studying. It's fascinating. You have no idea, molars, bicuspids and incisors.

MAN: Now, listen you! You’re and elf. And elves make toys!

CH: Paul Soles -- TV host, actor, and constant, reassuring presence on Canadian tv and radio for over half a century -- died last week. He was 90. Those clips we played barely scratch the surface of Mr. Soles' career. When it came to performance, he could do it all. On stage, TV, and radio, he was as fluent in drama as he was in comedy. As a co-host of the CBC's "Take 30" for 16 years -- part of that time with our former host Mary Lou Finlay -- he was as comfortable discussing politics as he was talking recipes with celebrity chef Madame Benoit. And then there were the two roles he animated sonically, even after they were animated visually: Spider-Man, in the original '60s cartoon; and Hermey, the misfit elf, in the stop-motion Christmas classic "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer". As I mentioned, he talked to everyone on Take 30, including the legendary Susan Lucci, during a 1976 deep dive into the world of soap operas.

SOUNDCLIP

PS: Susan, how do you respond to some of the criticisms that are levelled at daytime actors or daytime serials, for example, that they tend to perpetuate conventional stereotypes of weak men and strong women and so forth?

SUSAN LUCCI: I think most of the criticisms that have been levelled at daytime television, at least the ones that I've heard, have been levelled by people who I believe haven't watched daytime television in perhaps 20 years. I find that most of the characters that I have come in contact with or seen on daytime television are much more multidimensional than, let's say, the cops on the night-time shows. Let's say the lead on a cop show is always going to come back the next week and talk about perpetuating a myth that the good guy cop is strong and always going to get in there. I don't see why daytime television should have to take the... the brunt of that kind of criticism.

CH: And Mr. Soles also co-hosted this program many times. Here he is -- complete with appropriate accent -- in 1985.

SOUNDCLIP

PS: Dateline: Newent to England.

[the old Dateline theme]

PS 85-year-old Fred Cooper knew just what to do when his letter fell, and he found himself stuck up in the tree was pruning. He pulled out a cordless phone from his pocket and called the fire brigade. Problem was, they didn't believe him. He waited half an hour or so, and nobody came. Finally, he called the police, and they sent over a couple of men to get him down. When they asked him how he happened to have a cordless phone with them at the top of a tree, Cooper replied, “simple. I used to be a Boy Scout.” And as we all know, Scouts motto is be prepared.

[music: extremely dated instrumental]

CH: Paul Soles on "As It Happens" in 1985. Mr. Soles -- who had a 70-year career -- died last week. He was 90.

[music: instrumental]

Part 3: Texas Politics, Toronto Blindness Show

Catholic Schools Pride Flags

CH: It got a little more colourful outside Catholic schools in Toronto today -- where Pride flags are flying for the first time. For a parent at one of those schools, the raising of the rainbow flag is also helping to lift a deep shame she has carried since she was a student there. Eloise Morrison was 12 when a bishop addressed the congregation at her confirmation ceremony, saying that homosexuality was an "abomination" in the eyes of God. She found that characterization shocking and devastating because her father and a beloved uncle were gay. Ms. Morrison spoke to the CBC outside St. John Catholic School.

SOUNDCLIP

ELOISE MORRISON: I just felt so judged, and I felt like my family was literally going to hell. And I didn't even know if my family had heard that before because I hadn't. [chuckling] So I was scared for them, scared for my whole family, and especially my father, who was in the audience. And from that day forward, I vowed never to tell anybody about my family again. I just... I just thought that I would be judged, and the shame came over me. And then I felt the hatred from the Church, who I actually grew to love and respect and trust because I was going to a Catholic school, and these people were supposed to love me unconditionally. So I lived my whole life -- and I'm 46. I lived my whole life closeting my family, and I'm not even gay. I felt like I was wrong because of that message. I felt I internalized that message so much that I never... I never had that voice to stand up. And that's what I regret all these years because in my mind, in my heart, I know there's nothing wrong with being gay.

ISMAILA ALFA: And now, not only are you going to stand up and make a point of that, you're going to be raising the Pride flag at this very school. What... what's that going to mean to you?

EM: Well, for me, it means so much to me because [breaking down] my father recently passed away.

IA: I'm sorry.

EM: And... five months ago. And... but, however, if he was still alive, I don't think I would speak up because I really didn't want him to know the hurt that I've gone through all these years, hiding... hiding our life. So when this flag is raised, it will mean so much not only to me but to so many people because I don't know who else was in that church that night. There could have been children wondering about their sexuality, and hearing that message, who knows, they could have lived this whole life the same way I did. They might have even committed suicide. They might even... there might have been parents there who... who heard this message and felt the same. Who knows? But from June 1st on, I just hope that everyone will see this flag and know that they are accepted and loved unconditionally. And there's nothing wrong with who you are.

CH: Eloise Morrison is a parent and former student at St. John Catholic School in Toronto. She was speaking with the CBC's Ismaila Alfa about the school's first-ever Pride flag -- which was hoisted today.

[music: bright piano]

Texas Politics

Guest: Rafael Anchia

CH: If the defeat of Donald Trump seemed a harbinger of a less adversarial time in U.S. politics -- that time has not yet begun. Late Sunday night, Democrats left the floor of the Texas state legislature en masse, to stop new voting rules from being passed, ahead of a midnight deadline. Like other U.S. states, the Republican-led legislature in Texas has made it a top priority to pass new voting restrictions -- following Mr. Trump's baseless fraud claims, after the presidential election last year. Rafael Anchia is a Democratic member of the Texas House of Representatives. He chairs the Mexican-American Legislative Caucus. We reached him at the Capitol in Austin.

CO: Representative Anchia, can you just paint the scene for us on Sunday night? How did so many Democrats coordinate a walkout of this nature?

RAFAEL ANCHIA: Well, there was unanimity among the Democrats that we wanted to kill this voter suppression bill. So we had been planning really all session to try to defeat it through either procedure, debate or otherwise. And as we were attacking the bill procedurally and using the rules of the House, it became clear that Republicans were going to cut off debate and not let us give our speeches against the bill that we thought would hopefully drive the bill off the end of the calendar during the midnight deadline. So there was this sort of dramatic scene where we received a text from the Democratic caucus leader that said the time is now. Please grab your key -- because we have little keys in our desks -- that lock or unlock our voting machines. So he was telling us to lock your voting machine, take your key and get off the Capitol grounds. This is only the fourth time in Texas history that there's been a quorum break, as it's called, but it was successful in killing the bill before stroke of midnight.

CO: Now, the Republican majority knew that you, the Democrats, would do anything to stop this bill. You made that pretty clear, but it still seems that they were caught off guard, surprised by this move.

RA: Why is that? I don't know. I mean, they literally control every lever of power in state government. I mean, all statewide elected officials, majorities in both houses. And so, you know, they, I think, made a mistake in bringing such an extreme bill to the floor so that we would be incented to kill it. You know, we'll come back for a special session in short order. But the nice thing is, is that we got the attention of the federal government now. Joe Biden decried the bill as being un-American. The... the Department of Justice is focussed on this bill. They know how bad it is and what it does. And Texas has a long history of voter suppression. And not just going back to the Jim Crow era, but contemporaneously, there have been multiple findings of intentional discrimination in the last decade alone against the state of Texas. So people are watching this closely. All eyes of the country are on us.

CO: Right, who doesn't... who would be prevented, or it would be difficult for them to vote with this legislation?

RA: So they set up a bunch of bureaucratic measures that would make it harder to vote because instead of having to put just a little bit of information on your card, if you're going to be either assisting someone to vote, if you're going to be voting by mail, you have to put down all of this information. And then suddenly, you know that you're prone to mistakes there. If your driver's licence number is off, if your social is off by a digit, your ballots get thrown out. But more egregiously, they put in new provisions that would allow a judge to overturn elections despite not having to prove fraud. That was very concerning. And then finally, they snuck a new provision in there that would frustrate the ability to... to execute a “Souls to the Polls” program. It is not uncommon, especially in Black churches and Hispanic churches, for people to go to church in the morning and then right afterwards to go to the polls. Well, they moved the time to the afternoon. They said in no case could you open up polls on Sundays in the morning. It would have to be only at 1:00 p.m. So the goal there was, A, to... to... to defeat “Souls to the Polls” efforts which have been highly successful. And then secondly, to create long lines at the voting booth once people left church and we're going to go to... to vote. Finally, and this was really scary for me and my family. They allowed partisan what they call poll watchers. They gave them new and broad authority to move about the polling location. In the past, the independent election judge was the one who was supposed to have complete domain over the... the polling location. Now, in the final bill that they unveiled late in the process, it said that the partisan poll watchers would actually have more power than the independent election judge. And that was a big problem because we knew that the intent there was just to harass voters, look over their shoulders, try to intimidate them. And I didn't want that happening to my mom, my sister, my family members. I just think that's wrong and sort of violates the secrecy of the ballot. I would add one last thing, and that is that the Republican secretary of state has found no material voter fraud in the state and said that the election was safe, secure and successful. And despite that, they brought this very restricted bill through the process in furtherance of what we've seen in other states, which was, you know, Republicans giving credence to the big lie, which is that Black and Brown voters stole the election from Donald Trump.

CO: But these ways of voting that they will… they will eliminate or curtail are things that were quite popular in Texas, right, during this last election, especially during the pandemic. So does it have no effect at all on Republican voters?

RA: Oh, absolutely. And I said all the time... I said during my... my speech against the... the bill when it first came to the House, I said, hey, help me preserve Republican votes, help me preserve Democratic votes, help me preserve Texan votes because that's really what's happening here. I guess, you know, Republicans feel that lower voter turnout helps them, and they're making it clear by this bill. But there's no question during the pandemic, and throughout the state, we had counties that set up drive-through voting, that... that would send mail-in ballot applications to their citizenry so that they wouldn't have to come into the... into the polling location. During a deadly pandemic. They had 24-hour voting for essential workers. All of that was... was prohibited by SB7. And it just speaks to the desire of the Republican majority to have less people vote in the state. we’re already one of the most restrictive states in terms of... of voting. They wanted to make it more restrictive.

CO: So what message do you have for Joe Biden as the U.S. watches what's going on in Texas?

RA: Really, to Joe Biden and then the members of the Senate, you know, my message is that Republicans are very comfortable changing the rules in the state House and the state Senate to get laws passed, even laws that seek to erode our democracy and hurt voting rights. We, as Democrats who are in... in positions of power, controlling all three branches of government in Washington, need to pass laws and do what it takes to protect voting rights at the federal level.

CO: Representative Anchia, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

RA: Thanks for your time and thanks for inviting me.

CH: That was Democratic member of the Texas House of Representatives, Rafael Anchia, at the Capitol in Austin.

[music: world music]

Charlottetown John A. Statue

CH: Charlottetown PEI City Council has been debating the future of a statue of John A. Macdonald for more than a year. But last night, councillors acted fast. They held a vote -- and by this morning it was gone. The statue depicts Canada's first prime minister sitting on a bench. Over the past year, it's been splattered with paint, and knocked over once. The discovery of children's remains at a former residential school in Kamloops seems to have spurred Charlottetown to take action. Here is part of what PEI Chief Junior Gould said about the decision to remove the statue.

SOUNDCLIP

JUNIOR GOULD: So I think it was a good decision in light of what happened with that finding of 215 Native children. I think it was just an inevitability. And I'm very happy with the decision that they came to tonight. The story that we've been telling quietly. It's slowly being unsilenced. The ceremony I had today was breaking the silence, it's called. So I think now that it's out there and it's not just a story passed on by somebody's grandparents, or they once heard this about this, it's a fact. I think that the problem is that it was never recorded properly or reported in the history books or in Canadian history. It's a fact is what it is. And I think now that the facts are coming to light and put on... on mainstream TV, it's going to be problematic moving forward. So when they engaged us in agreeing that the five recommendations we put forward would, they would talk with us. I know for a fact they wouldn't like the recommendations that I was going to make because it was going to bring light to the story of what the residential school actually did and the correlation between his legislative policies back in the day. I don't blame him as an individual. And I know things happened in a time when things were different, but I think the truth should be told in every capacity. And that's one of the recommendations I would have put forward. Like, a statue at the end of the bench, if they wanted to keep, it should reflect the story that we're seeing in the news today. I'm OK with history. I'm not about cancel culture. I'm not about... I understand the woke culture. I think it belongs in a museum. It is history. And I think the glorification of the individual, because it did affect a certain segment of our Canadian society that it should have been those that segment society should have been respected. I think it should belongs in a museum. I hear the discussions they will decide down the road where they put it. And if they relitigate this again, I think that the... the Assembly of Councils would still like to be involved when they get to that stage because we still think that it shouldn't just move to another street corner. Chief Bernard and I both believe in education, and we believe in community, and we believe in the people of Prince Edward Island. And I think this just echoes that. I said when... when the facts come out, and it's not debatable, the right decisions will be made by the right people. And I think the city of Charlottetown had finally come to a conclusion that the evidence in front of them gave them the option to come to that conclusion. So I appreciate that they're coming to that conclusion today. And... and I'd like to reiterate that I think the city of Charlottetown is great. And I think I appreciate the council's decision tonight.

CH: That was PEI Chief Junior Gould taking to CBC about the decision to remove a statue of John A. Macdonald from Charlottetown today.

[music: folk]

“Ideas” Promo: Rats Doc

CH: On “Ideas” tonight, fair warning: the first in a two-part documentary series about rats. Having followed in humanity's footsteps, rats are now found on every continent except Antarctica. And as urban rodentologist Bobby Corrigan says, part of their success is due to their ability to exploit the environments that humans create.

SOUNDCLIP

BOBBY CORRIGAN: The term that you'll see in the classic research literature is this species hugger muggers into tiny spaces. So you can have a full rat family that will do quite well in the size of a basketball, inside a basketball. And if you walk around with a basketball, and you figure out how many places can I fit this basketball where it will not easily be seen? You'd be surprised.

HOST: And within this home, the size of a basketball, a perfect storm is brewing. A female rat goes into heat every four to five days. It can have a litter in as little as three weeks. Our rat has a nest containing eight to 12 pups. And in only three months' time, they will be mature and ready to have families of their own.

BC: And the cycle starts over. And the typical rat under average conditions, again, we'll say an alleyway in any city around the world. Life's not simple for rats. Actually, it's pretty difficult. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of stress. There's infighting and so forth. So most rats under average city conditions can live seven months to a year. A year is actually pretty darn good. In a laboratory -- those same animals put into a laboratory cage with no stress, food every single day, water every single day, comfortable bedding. You can get two years, even upwards to two and a half years of that same species.

HOST: Even in her short lifespan, our alley rat could have six more litters, all likely to stay within the same city block. And this is happening in the nooks and crannies all around us.

BC: The reason rats are so good, they're so adaptable to meeting those environments is, you know, among all the different mammals on planet Earth, it's important for everyone to really realize that rodents, just the rodent group, they comprise 43 per cent of all mammals on planet Earth. Forty-three per cent. Another seven per cent and that means one out of two mammals that occupy our planet, is a rodent. There's no other mammal group that even comes close to that success.

CH: Whether we like it or not, rats, as some of the planet's most tenacious survivors, are part of the human story. More on that story, tonight on "Ideas", with Nahlah Ayed, after "As It Happens".

[music: indie rock]

Toronto Blindness Show

Guest: John Karastamatis

CH: Theatre is returning to Toronto... kind of. Today, Mirvish Productions announced that an adaptation of Jose Saramago's “Blindness” will open in the city on August 4th. But the massive stage at the Princess of Wales Theatre will be occupied by audience members -- and an actor will be speaking into their ears. John Karastamatis is the director of marketing and communications for Mirvish Productions. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: John, can you give us an idea of what an audience member will experience when they walk into this production of "Blindness"?

JOHN KARASTAMATIS: It will be something they haven't experienced before. For one, they will not be sitting in seats in the auditorium. They will be sitting in special seats on stage. For another, what they will experience will not involve any live actors. It's... it's more of a sound and art installation than a conventional theatre piece.

CO: Now, is this... is it being done this way because of COVID measures? Is it part of the pandemic, or is this just the way the producers wanted to make it?

JK: The producers -- the Donmar Warehouse -- had been trying for years to make a stage adaptation of "Blindness", the novel. And they went through various incarnations, including one where they had a cast of over 100. But none of them worked. And they finally decided that the story should be told maybe by one person, and they thought it will be a one-person show. When COVID started, they had put this on the backburner, and they thought, goodness gracious, this is... this is a show about a pandemic. We can do it. And to do it safely, we won't use an actor. In fact, it will be an audio narration, but it will have... it will be set in the theatre. And you will... you will have what the theatre does best, which is a communal experience.

CO: Just a bit more about the safety of it. How are you... people are on the stage, but what are the other ways in which they are being protected against infection?

JK: They will come in one at a time, so they won't have to interact with anybody else. Everyone will be masked. They will be shown to their seats one at a time. So they're not going to pass anybody else on their way to their seats. And the seats are distanced two metres all around. So not just in front and back, but all around. The stage of the Princess of Wales is massive. It's 40 feet wide, 80 feet deep and over 100 feet tall. Best of all, it has a very, very powerful air circulation, because when you have a show playing there, a traditional show, there are... there are several hundred lighting instruments that are on. So you need to cool them and have the air circulating like there is a windstorm happening, and that will be in place. So you cannot be in a safer location, even if you were outdoors, then on the stage of the Princess of Wales.

CO: And so, at least 50 people will be on stage. They're in pods with headphones, is that right?

JK: That's right.

CO: OK, and so this... [chuckle] the story is about the story of blindness, but it's about a pandemic as well. There's a clip we've got of the play. And you can just tell us what's going on here. Here it is.

SOUNDCLIP

SPEAKER: An influential member of the government came up with the idea that it was up to individual families to keep their blind indoors, never allowing them to go out on the street. Whole families became families of blind people. They couldn't take care of each other. So the government started using abandoned factories, disused churches, sports pavilion and empty warehouses. The traffic fell into a state of chaos. A bus driver went blind as he was driving his vehicle. It's hell out there.

CO: Yikes! OK.

JK: It's very chilling. Just listening to that clip, you know, I got chills. But the narrator, who happens to be the wife of the doctor who first discovers this virus, is telling you what is going on in that world, in that city. And in many ways, it mirrors what... what's happened to us. We, you know, we had certain protocols. You know, we had tents that were ICU wards. We made all those kinds of provisions that they have made in this story.

CO: This is being narrated into their headphones on stage. They're hearing this frightening story of this virus that is turning everyone blind. And but... I'm just, John, [chuckling] Do you think after a year and a half of not being able to go to the theatre that people will want to go and see a production about another kind of pandemic?

JK: We hope so. We don't know. They did in London. And they... they produced this in New York, where it's still playing, in Mexico City and Amsterdam and Auckland. So it has resonated everywhere it's played. Now, we are producing this a bit later. We were supposed to produce this last fall, but of course, the second wave happened, and we couldn't do it. But, you know, we hope we're not too late that people still would want to explore this idea. And... and really would want to experience something outside of their home, finally, after all these months.

CO: We've spoken with people in New York and about the theatre scene there opening up. And just people who work on stage and performance or music or whatever, just how... how debilitating and sad it's been to see their venues, see the stages dark. So what is it like for you? What will it be like to see… even for this production, see those lights get thrown on and see that stage come to life?

JK: Oh, my God! I... you know, it's hard to imagine. I know some people will be in tears because it has been devastating for... for everyone in every sector of our... of our world, but especially in the theatre. Because the theatre only functions with an audience. It doesn't function otherwise. So you need people to congregate, even better, strangers to congregate, which is what we've been avoiding now for 16 months.

CO: But you need lots of people, though, right? [chuckling] The theatre is expensive. You need bums in seats. You need packed houses. So --

JK: We do. We do. And to be honest, this... this show is not about making money. There's no money to be made. In fact, money is to be lost. But it's an important first step. A baby step to begin the reopening. Whenever the moment comes that our public health officials deem it safe, we want to be ready. So this is the first step to make that happen.

CO: All right, we'll be watching. John, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

JK: Thank you.

CH: John Karastamatis is the director of marketing and communications for Mirvish Productions. We reached him in Toronto.

[music: SPanish guitar]

Edmonton Bathhouse Raid

CH: May 30th, 1981 was a dark day for Edmonton's LGBTQ community. Four decades ago, dozens of police officers raided the Pisces Spa bathhouse in downtown Edmonton -- arresting dozens of gay men, and in the process, outing them to the community. The men were arrested under bawdy house laws, and the ensuing trials -- and the men's names -- were plastered all over the media. Michael Phair was there that night and went on to fight the criminal charges against him, have his record scrubbed, and be elected to city council. Today, he spoke about the anniversary.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL PHAIR: I think it was about 1:00 in the morning that I was there. I was actually watching TV at the time with a couple other folks. And all of a sudden, the lights came on and there was a stream of people running down the hallway yelling. And it took me a minute or so to realize what was going on. And then one of the people running in was a police officer -- they were all police officers -- stopped and said, this is a raid. Don't go anywhere. Just stay right where you are, kind of thing. And they... they took a picture, a photo, of everyone with their... with their name. And then probably about 3:30 or 4:00 in the morning they herded everyone into paddy wagons and took us to downtown, to the old courthouse.

TARA MCCARTHY: What was the criminal charge that you were facing at the time?

MP: Under the criminal code, what the police were indicating and what the courts indicated is that the place was a bawdy house, which essentially was put in place a long time ago, and they were considered places of prostitution. And, of course, as it turned out, the charges were that. There was no... there was no prostitution found, there was no drugs, but there were 53, 56 people that were charged with being found in because we were in the place that it was a bawdy house. And those of us who were part of the raid, I think it was a very scary time. And certainly, many people... some people who... who were actually there and charged left Edmonton never to be seen again. There were also rumours of people who committed suicide, certainly the fact that people's jobs in many cases. So it was really... it was a horrible period of time for people, including myself, very difficult. For the larger community, over time, I think there was a sense of... of the whole... this whole thing of a raid was entirely out of hand. And that... that the community needed to not let this happen again, and needed to be more visible and... and push for changes in legislation, et cetera so that we would be treated as decent citizens, like everybody else. That took some years to happen. But I think it helped to galvanize and get people moving.

CH: That was former Edmonton city councillor Michael Phair speaking with "Edmonton AM"' guest host Tara McCarthy today.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

June 1, 2021 Episode Transcript

More Stories Like This