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The AIH Transcript for May 31, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

Helen Mann: Hello, I’m Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

HM: Need to know. Following a BC First Nation's report that radar technology has detected the remains of more than 200 children, an Indigenous leader explains why he supports calls to investigate former residential schools across the country.

CH: They're not sure what the point is. Winkler, Manitoba's mayor tells us COVID conspiracy theories have taken hold, even as COVID hospitalizations go up, and now the city's struggling to improve a low vaccination rate.

HM: Bidding adieu to the French Open. Naomi Osaka has withdrawn from the tournament, after she was fined for missing a press conference. Our guest says the tennis champ deserved more leeway.

CH: And … Big Game-changer. Conservationists in South Africa are using new technology to allow people around the world to stop poachers in their tracks, by watching a live cam from home.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Monday edition. Radio that's there when poach comes to shove.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Kamloops Remains, South Africa Anti-Poaching, Naomi Osaka Withdraws

Kamloops Remains

Guest: Terry Teegee

CH: For years, community members heard stories about unmarked burial sites in the area. And now, radar technology is revealing those horrific stories to be true. Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation Chief Rosanne Casimir says preliminary findings from a ground-penetrating radar specialist have uncovered the remains of 215 children at the former Kamloops Indian Residential School. The news has led to memorials across the country in recent days. And as people grieve, Indigenous leaders are also calling for action. Ontario MPP Sol Mawakwa spoke about the shared grief in the Ontario Legislature today -- and he had a message about what needs to happen next. A warning that the following may be difficult to hear.

SOUNDCLIP

SOL MAWAKWA: Indigenous people across the country are hurting. We are in pain. The death of our children is a crime against humanity. But Canada has never treated as such. [sniffle] That country must hold up to its past, as must all its governments and institutions, for its role and the horror it created in residential schools. [sniffle] People often call Indian residential schools a dark chapter in Canada's history. But for many of us who are affected by this directly, we know that chapter never ended with our grandparents. And for those other members of our families who were sent to residential schools, we continue to collectively feel that hurt that was experienced by our relatives in those schools. All Indigenous peoples living today in Canada are survivors of Canada's tools of genocide. We are survivors of residential schools. We are survivors of Indian Act, that we are survivors of the Sixties Scoop and survivors of the ongoing systemic racism which attempts to erase us. But we are still here. Today, I'm calling on Ontario and the Canadian government to work with all First Nations at the sites of the schools and look for our lost children. It is a great open secret that our children lie on these properties of former schools, an open secret that Canadians can no longer look away from.

CH: Sol Mamakwa is the MPP for Kiiwetinoong, Ontario. Terry Teegee is supporting Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation in BC right now, and has been speaking with Chief Rosanne Casimir. He's the regional chief of the BC Assembly of First Nations. We reached him in Prince George.

HM: Chief Teegee, what are you hearing in your conversations about how people are coping with this awful news?

TERRY TEEGEE: Well, right now, everybody’s just trying to comprehend, you know, the news of 215 found graves. I want to be clear, it's not one mass grave. It's individual graves that were found in and around the Kamloops Indian Residential School. And I suppose it wasn't surprising that there were this finding. But I think what is surprising is the sheer number of 215, and many people from all walks in life are just heartbroken. And then behind that are also angered as well.

HM: You say it was not really surprising. I understand there have been stories for many years. Was there any doubt that… that people would find these remains at some point?

TT: Well, I think here and other residential schools, we've always heard of residential school survivors accounts of children gone missing or children that were assumed ran away. And really, that's the finding. It confirms the oral history of residential school survivors who always had that question, that burning question, of whatever happened to the student or that student? And I think it's really part of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which stated, you know, there's approximately over 4,000 unaccounted for. And that's really what needs to be done now is to continue to search for those children.

HM: How has this news impacted you personally?

TT: It's really heartbreaking. And my older brother and sister went to Lejac Residential School. I heard many horror stories from Lejac, but also my wife's community here in Prince George Lheidli T'enneh. They have relatives that attended Kamloops Indian Residential School. And some of my membership in Takla Nation also attended Kamloops Indian Residential School. So, you know, it hits close to home, and it's really heartbreaking. At the same time, a bit of anger. But, at the same time, I think this is a real opportunity for Canada to reconcile its past and... and also to start to really begin healing.

HM: I mean, having such proximity to this, seeing family members who are affected by this news, what sort of help do you think the community might need to support those who had loved ones at that school and just other residential school survivors in their families who are dealing with this news?

TT: Well, I think mental health is really important at this moment in time. I certainly know our First Nations health authority, First Nations Health Council, are doing their best to support survivors. Obviously, this is re-traumatizing in terms of reflecting back on the horrors of residential school. So I think, you know, right now doing the best we can, but also knowing full well that quite possibly there would be more resources needed, not only here in British Columbia, but across Canada.

HM: There are calls today for an examination of all former residential schools in Canada. Do you support that?

TT: Yes, I do. I think, you know, that's part of the recommendations from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, is to look for those, you know, unaccounted for missing children. I know in the East Coast, in Mi'kmaq territory, that they have been actively doing ground radar search. The Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations, FSIN in Saskatchewan, are planning to do ground radar searches in their residential school in Saskatchewan. So whether you know it's important or not, First Nations are actively doing it or going to do it in the near future. And I certainly support that. And I think we should do the same here in British Columbia.

HM: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has promised there will be concrete action following this discovery. What would concrete action look like to you?

TT: Well, concrete action... I know one of the barriers, because some of these residential schools and there is approximately 130... 140 in the country, you know, from the 1800s right up to the last one in 1996 was that either they change hands were sold off by the church or, you know, there some other designation to... to those sites. And I know there was some bureaucratic red tape barriers in searching for, you know, some of these sites or some of these old residential schools. Concrete action would be eliminating and cutting through the red tape and resourcing the First Nation, the communities in that area to do some ground searching. That's... that's concrete action.

HM: If you could speak directly to the prime minister today, what do you want to say to him?

TT: Well, I think, you know, to.. to Prime Minister Trudeau is that appreciate, you know, all the support from around the country and the notes of acknowledgement of the 215 and saying sorry, but that only goes so far. So we need that concrete action in terms of resourcing and also cutting through the red tape to find these children, but also, too, to fully implement all the recommendations from the TRC that provided support for Indigenous people that are still grappling and dealing with the residential school system. This is going to be a multi-generational issue that needs to be dealt with.

HM: I see people talking today about being re-wounded, about healing, being interrupted by this discovery. Is full healing possible, do you think, given all that's happened?

TT: Well, yeah, I think so. I mean, you know... you know, acknowledgement that there has been a wrongdoing is a part of healing. Acknowledgement of our children going missing is really part of the healing process. I mean, feeling angered about this and feeling, you know, heartbroken about it. This is just part of the healing process. So the concrete actions would really allow us to carry on with that healing journey. And when we talk about healing it, you know, it's not only for our residential school survivors in our community. It's for this country. This country was born out of genocidal policies that were poisoning people Indgenous people. So... so I think moving forward, that's definitely, you know, something that needs to be dealt with.

HM: Chief Teegee, thank you so much for speaking with us at a difficult time. We appreciate it.

TT: Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you.

HM: Bye-bye.

TT: Bye.

CH: Terry Teegee is the regional chief of the B.C. Assembly of First Nations. He's in Prince George. You can find more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih. A 24-hour national crisis line is available for residential school survivors, and their families. The number is: 1-866-925-4419.

[music: sombre ambient]

South Africa Anti-Poaching

Guest: Leitah Mkhabela

CH: In South Africa's Balule Nature Preserve, rangers can only do so much to stop poachers. But a new tool is like a second set of eyes. Times several thousand. A new project has put smartphones in the park. And the people monitoring aren't anti-poacher rangers, or wildlife experts. They're not even necessarily in South Africa. They're people all around the world watching the live webcams, and alerting THE park rangers to poachers in real time. Leitah Mkhabela works with the Black Mambas, an all-female anti-poaching unit that monitors the Balule Nature Preserve. We reached her in Hoedspruit, South Africa.

HM: Ms. Mkhabela, how much of a game-changer is it for you to have all of these extra eyes around the world looking out for poachers in your park?

LEITAH MKHABELA: [chuckling] It is changing a lot since the Black Mambas put their boots in the ground. But then, with the technology changing, we are gaining more eyes and ears in the reserve.

HM: What kind of difference is it making?

LM: The camera system, it is making more difference into the young generation because they are able to... to... to stream live, to see Balule Nature Reserve even when they are home. So it is changing in so many people's lives inside and outside South Africa because they are able to take the reserve into their dining room in the evening. And they can also spot so many things. And they can alert the Black Mambas about everything that they have... they have seen on the livescreen.

HM: Before these phones were installed, what tools did you and the other members of the Black Mambas have to track these poachers?

LM: We were only having a notebook where we can write everything that we find that we suspect. And we were having a single phone after the notebook that we would gather all the information. But those were old phones that when you take pictures, they were not clear. And our self and our eyes and the memories of everything that we have seen. So this has made a lot of change in our life and the life of so many people.

HM: Mmm-hmm. And the animals, of course.

LM: Yes, and because we are not able to see well at night. So the cameras are helping a lot.

HM: So if I am someone at home and I want to try this out, I want to be part of the solution. What do I look for if I'm looking on one of these webcams? What kind of suspicious activity should I look for?

LM: Animals moving around because you can spot an animal that is limping, or you can spot an animal that has a snare on its neck and then you can spot poachers. You can also learn about different behaviours of animals. You can learn about the bush itself. You can see rivers. And be able to spot the hippos and crocodiles into the river at night or in the afternoon. And then, you guys can also see the Black Mambas on their patrol.

HM: And are there sounds that I should listen for?

LM: This also sounds that we can... that we can hear on the live stream, sound of gunshots, sound of cars, sound of people talking. Because that's where we know that we need to act. There must be something that is happening.

HM: And how quickly could you respond? I mean, if I saw someone that I thought might be poaching, how quickly do you get there?

LM: We respond very much faster because we are staying inside the reserve, and we are working 24/7. So we very... we are very much people that are ready to go out and work wherever... where we get the information that we need.

HM: Can you tell me about any particular incident that comes to mind where the phones were used and worked to save some animal?

LM: Yeah, we have had a gunshot reported in and injured lion. Also, the sound of voices of people at night. We could follow up and verify and prevent any crime.

HM: Give us a sense of how big a problem poaching has been in your park in recent years?

LM: I think we have suffered poaching in... in the park that are nearby... that are nearby Balule in 2012, 2013 and 2014. But since the Black Mambas have came and put our boots in the ground, poaching has decreased, but it is still going.

HM: Tell me a bit more about the Black Mambas? This is an all-female, anti-poaching group. Where did the idea come from to have this group of women monitor the park?

LM: So the idea came from when [chuckling] Craig Spencer, the founder of the Black Mambas, have seen that we've got so many male people in the industry for the ranger, and there were no women. And women that are around the game reserve were not able to raise their voice or were not allowed to do work that people thought only men can do it. The theme was to give it back to the community, Women that... that are not able to further their studies can do something different, and they can do it better than men or better than using weapons. And it has been so successful because we have decreased rhino poaching by 17 per cent and bushmeat poaching by 99 per cent.

HM: Well, it benefits the animals, obviously. What about for you? What has it done for you to be a member of the Black Mambas?

LM: I am a role model in my... in my community, so many young kids are looking up to us, and they want to gain more knowledge from us. And I have seen that so many ladies in my age, they have seen the success of the Black Mambas. So they want to join the project, and they want to grab every opportunity that they get.

HM: How many women are part of the group?

LM: We are 22 women that are based on the food. And then we've got the “Bush Baby” project, which are the ladies that are based in the communities where we go to schools and teach them about how to protect the environment, how to send the knowledge back home to the old people, to our fathers, our uncle, that we don't have to kill the animals because it's the future of the next generation.

HM: It sounds like the Black Mambas is a positive force in so many ways. What about the people around the world who are using these smartphone cameras? What do they say to you about what it does for them?

LM: So far, we have seen so many people all over the world watching the livestream. There are so many people that are supporting the Black Mambas. There are so many people that have become rangers that are helping us to stop rhino poaching. And people from outside South Africa can also watch with their kids. I think this is going to change the life of so many people and so many kids.

HM: Ms. Mkhabela, thank you very much. Good luck with your work.

LM: It's a pleasure. Thank you very much.

HM: OK. Bye-bye.

LM: Bye.

CH: Leitah Mkhabela is with the Black Mambas, an all-female, anti-poaching unit that monitors the Balule Nature Reserve in South Africa. For more on this story go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: orchestral]

Naomi Osaka Withdraws

Guest: Jon Wertheim

CH: Naomi Osaka has left the court. The four-time Grand Slam champion withdrew from the French Open today -- after the tournament gave her scolding, and a hefty fine for refusing to attend press conferences. Ms. Osaka said on Twitter: "I think the best thing for the tournament, the other players and my well-being is that I withdraw so that everyone can get back to focusing on the tennis." She explained that speaking to the media was making her anxious. Jon Wertheim is at the French Open in Paris. He's a senior writer and executive editor of Sports Illustrated.

HM: Jon Wertheim, what were your first thoughts when you heard this news that Naomi Osaka was withdrawing from the tournament?

JOHN WERTHEIM: My first thoughts were varied. First was a level of empathy for Naomi Osaka. Those of us who have covered the sport and gotten to know her a bit know this... this was not an act of defiance so much as it was really an act of self-help and self-care. It also was a feeling of disappointment because it didn't have to come to this. I mean, this really escalated quickly. And this is the kind of situation that, especially a sports league and an athlete, should be able to negotiate and accommodate without having a player remove herself from competition. It really was unfortunate it was handled the way it was on all sides.

HM: How could the tour organizer have handled it better, do you think?

JW: I think there's a dialogue to be had and a discourse to be had, and maybe not in the middle of a tournament. But I think there had to be some recognition that this was an athlete who right now is sort of broken and sort of damaged. And this wasn't an arrogant, entitled athlete making a statement, which is how the response was. I mean, the flipside is, I don't think Naomi Osaka’s timing or the way she released that message or the content of the message was ideal either. But again, reasonable people who know each other in a sport that travels the globe with one of the brightest star... I mean, people should have been able to get in a room and figure out a way to make accommodations and hash this out. There's no reason why an athlete's no longer in a tournament by her own volition.

HM: You know, a lot of the stories have used the term snub to describe her refusal to... to meet the press after the event. Does the... the sports media, did the tennis journalists have a role in this perhaps in how they deal with her and other athletes?

JW: One of the great ironies of this story is that Naomi Osaka is an absolute media darling who has a very collegial and congenial relationship with the media. Her press conferences are always so fun and well-attended, and whimsical. It was strange of all players to make this... this kind of a statement. But again, I really... I don't think this was about… I don't think she attempted to attack a system. I don't think this was about any sort of a defiance. People said, oh, she makes all this money. Now she can afford to take the fine. I don't think that's what this was about. I think it's someone who was in a very precarious state mentally right now. She has not played particularly well, performed particularly well. I think she was afraid of the confrontation in a press conference format. Again, I think this is really about Naomi Osaka and her mental health right now. And not about anything nearly as systemic.

HM: In her statement today, she said the people who know her well know she's been struggling with depression, that she's dealing with social anxiety. How well known has that been?

JW: I think that that's been fairly well known, especially to the people that cover the sport. They know this about Naomi. I mean, she... she said, quote, you know, let's face it, I'm a little weird. And we all knew he referenced her headphones. That was common knowledge that a lot of times, she puts headphones on with no music just so she doesn't have to have social interactions. It's been known. It's been respected. She's alluded to it before. are every question asked in a press conference ideal or sensitively-worded? No, but Naomi Osaka is absolutely adored by the media. And I would say of all the players, with a few exceptions, she might have the best relationship. It's not confrontational or filled with friction at all. Quite the opposite.

HM: So if you and other journalists knew she was struggling, you would think that the French Open folks would know she was struggling as well. And yet, they go ahead, and they fine her for refusing to meet with the press. Why is it so important to them that she sits down and talks to reporters when she's made clear that it's difficult at this point?

JW: That is a great question. If many of us knew, what Naomi Osaka was all about, why wouldn't this tournament that promoted her, which she's played before? She's one of the great shining stars of the sport. I think there was a real misread. And I think people thought this was, oh, here comes another well-paid, entitled athlete who's, you know, she's trying to set a new precedent, and we, you know, essentially have to keep these athletes in line. We can't have every athlete who can afford it breaching convention.

HM: What do you think happens next?

JW: I think Naomi Osaka ought to take time off and not come back until she's ready. And as we speak, Serena Williams, age 39, is playing on the court. So, you know, there's plenty of time. This is not a short window. Wimbledon... optimistically, Wimbledon is coming up in a few weeks. One of the nice things about tennis there are a lot of tournaments, a lot of chances for... for re-entry. I hope she takes the time she needs to address it. Because clearly, she's... she's not in a healthy state right now. And maybe it's a disguised blessing that she's not playing this tournament anymore.

HM: John, thank you for taking time to talk to us.

JW: You got it.

HM: Night. Bye-bye.

CH: Jon Wertheim is Sports Illustrated's executive editor. He’s in Paris.

[music: horns!]

Part 2: Winkler MB Vaccine Rates

Winkler MB Vaccine Rates

Guest: Martin Harder

CH: Manitoba is struggling with a crisis in hospitals -- and a crisis around vaccine hesitancy. This weekend, the province had the highest number of COVID-19 patients taken to ICUs in a single 24-hour period. And while the provincial vaccination rate is 65 per cent, residents in the city of Winkler, Manitoba are at just 25 per cent. The surrounding area of Stanley, Manitoba is at just 13 per cent. Dr. Ganesan Abbu works near the town -- and this morning, he told the CBC about his patients.

SOUNDCLIP

GANESAN ABBU: I think nurses have found it difficult to handle, you know, a community, a certain segment of the community, who believe that this is a hoax, that the virus doesn't exist. And other untruths like, you know, the vaccine is going to put a chip into each one of us who's been vaccinated, and people will be able to track us. Almost every day, we hear this -- almost every day. I've had two patients who have died, and even right until the time that they died, they didn't believe that they had COVID, and they would never believe. One... one of them went home. And, yeah, his family and him never believed that they had COVID. Another patient had died from COVID. And the family, you know, really didn't want to believe that. And they were wondering if they could do an autopsy to confirm it? And, you know, I don't know. We hear this all the time.

CH: That was Dr. Ganesan Abbu speaking to CBC Winnipeg today. Martin Harder is the Mayor of Winkler. He's struggling to convince his residents to get vaccines. We reached him in Winkler.

HM: Mayor Harder, when you hear Dr. Abbu speak about his patients who, even as they die of the virus, believe that it's a hoax. How does that make you feel?

MARTIN HARDER: Well, obviously very saddened us as a community leader. I've about every article available sent to me either by text or by Messenger or suggestions on Facebook in regard to a similar situation. And it's a tough place to be as a community leader to say, you know, it's time we listen to our local doctors trying to convince people that it's not a hoax. It's something that the doctors deal with on a daily basis. And the message that we're sending out to our community is we have trusted our local doctors from the time we were born to whatever age we are now. They have delivered our babies. And quit spreading the theories out there that you get off of the Internet from somebody that you never dealt with before, and you never will again.

HM: Well, those false stories, as you say, are out there everywhere. Communities all across the country, across the world, are dealing with these strange hoax stories. But your city has a particularly low level of vaccination. Why do you think it is so stubbornly low at this point?

MH: Winkler is a community that believes in fighting for themselves. They have an entrepreneurial spirit. They refuse just to go and accept something from the government just because the government has something available. Just because the government says you shall, doesn't necessarily that... mean that it's true. And when I look back over the last 20 years, a large percentage of our population base comes from Europe and their parents actually have gone through the Second World War, gone through the Holocaust, gone through the Hitler regime. They understand how subtly things changed. So they have a huge degree of suspicion because of the stories that they've heard, and maybe some of them lived through. So they come here. And what they are promoting is saying, well, hey, this is the same thing we went through when we were there. We thought we came to a free country. And now we have a government that is forcing this on us and thinking absolutely everything that is possible, and they're afraid of it.

HM: How do you counter those suspicions? What kind of conversations do you have with people about the concerns that they're raising?

MH: Well, it's... I mean, obviously, I don't know what the future holds for those are vaccinated. I am vaccinated. I trust my local doctor giving me advice. And that's really the conversation that I have with anybody that I talk to. We are entrusting our lives of ourselves to our local doctors, who make decisions for us every single day. And when we are sick, guess who we go to see? When we're sick, we go to the emergency. Guess who takes care of us? That is the message I'm trying to give to them. You know, quit spending five, 10 hours a day on the Internet researching and listening to every quack story that's out there, but rather just deal with the legitimate questions that you have and just get them answered from your local doctor.

HM: Some people have suggested that religion may play a role, that people want to put their... their faith in God and trust that they will be safe because of that. What about the religious leadership in your area? Are they doing enough, do you think, to try to encourage people to follow the recommended health measures?

MH: The majority of them do. But you hear from the ones that don't, right? The exposure that they're getting is just some of it is... is... is crowd-gathering. And it's unfortunate that whether it's demonstrations or just saying, hey, we have a religious right. Honestly, our religious freedoms aren't at stake, from what I can see.

HM: Last week, Premier Brian Pallister said that there is an element of personal responsibility that shouldn't escape us, but that seems to be escaping some. People criticized that. I'm wondering how people in Winckler took that comment?

MH: Very poorly. I think if the rhetoric or if the information from the province would have been more positive in the first place, I think we would have less naysayers. Honestly, we are very offended at being called idiots. We're very offended when he uses a statement like that. We're offended when the hammer comes down and say, you know, I'm going to fine the living daylights out of you, and then stand up and say, well, you won't even drive when I get through with you, because if you're not paying your ticket, you won't drive. Like, it's... it's creating a bigger and bigger issue for us all the time. I wish he would quit doing that.

HM: Do you think his frustration, though, is justified? They keep telling people they should do this, but they're not doing it, and he sees those numbers going up?

MH: I don't think the frustration is justified. I think the frustration has been created by Mr. Palliser.

HM: What about the idea of incentives? I ask this because we're seeing in some jurisdictions in the states that they are… they're doing things to lure people. I mean, something as simple as a free beer on the one hand. In Ohio, a million-dollar lottery. Would incentives perhaps help?

MH: We want to get through this pandemic and get to the other side and get back to normal. You know, whether we can go shopping, whether we can go travelling, whether we can get together with family, whether we can go to church. You can list all of those as being... it should be enough incentive in order to do this. But whether there's a monetary incentive or some other incentive, we are looking at it as a city together with some business people. We haven't figured out the program yet, but we got all the reasons why.

HM: So it might happen?

MH: It could. Not sure.

HM: You know, we are focussing on the low rate of vaccination in Winckler, but it is better than it was. I mean, it was about 13 per cent a few weeks ago. It's more than doubled. Is that at least an encouraging sign to you?

MH: It is. You know, the biggest... the biggest thing, when people see it happening in your own community, and you have loved ones that have died. I experienced that last November. I had two... or a cousin and his wife. Both died within two weeks of each other from COVID in the Steinbach area. So I know what that's like, you know, and you can't even have closure. You can't even go to a funeral. Like, it's just sad. Very sad.

HM: Well, Mayor Harder, I'm sorry for your loss. And I wish you the best with getting your community to support your efforts.

MH: Thank you very much.

HM: Bye-bye.

MH: Bye.

CH: Martin Harder is the Mayor of Winkler, Manitoba. That's where we reached him.

[music: ambient]

FOA: Dr. Kieran Moore

CH: You'd be hard pressed to find many Ontarians who'd give David Williams an A+ for his communication skills during this pandemic. And now the province's chief medical officer of health is on his way out. He will retire next month. And the province has identified his successor: Dr. Kieran Moore. For years, Dr. Moore has served as the medical officer of health for the Kingston area -- east of Toronto. And his pandemic report card would no doubt show higher marks. He's been praised for his leadership -- there've been no major outbreaks in long-term care homes in Kingston -- and there have been only three COVID-19 deaths in the region. Back in March, a year into the pandemic, Dr. Moore spoke with Carol about why he thought Kingston had had success.

SOUNDCLIP

KM: Well, I do think it's the community. We've embraced prevention right from the start: social and physical distancing, mask-wearing, good hand hygiene. We had a couple of scares early on in the pandemic that I think just reinforced how important prevention of the spread of COVID was. We had a early outbreak after the reopening in a nail salon that spread fairly quickly to multiple members of our community. And the research shows if the community embraces prevention early on and maintains it, that you can limit the spread. And the other piece is that public health is in the perfect position to coordinate with the healthcare system, as well as municipal partners and community partners. And that coordination, communication, collaboration has just paid off in dividends because everyone's been on the same page. We've all worked so well together as a community. And now, moving forward to the immunization strategy, I'm very confident that we're going to have a very robust immunization strategy going forward.

CO: Okay. So I guess you're saying that you have obedient citizens. But it seems that there was a lot more involved with your success in Kingston, one of them being that, well, we know that one of the biggest areas that were hit with COVID infections in Ontario and elsewhere were long-term care homes killed thousands of people. But you started working quite early on to secure those long-term care facilities in February, is that right?

KM: That's correct. We had been watching what was going on internationally with COVID-19 and saw the major outbreaks that occurred in the West Coast and in Washington state. And February 3rd, we held our first conference with the nurse leads, the administrators, physician leads of our long-term care and said, what do you need? How can we support you? How can we prevent this virus getting into your vulnerable populations? And we came up with a game plan where our inspectors would help support them in infection prevention and control. We helped them with a robust testing strategy. We audited their best practises to ensure they felt supported, that they could don and doff the equipment appropriately. And that certainly paid off for us.

CO: Why do you think that others didn't have the success? They had access to the same data that you had. They had access to the knowledge you had seeing what was happening in other countries. We could see what was coming, what could happen. All of that you've cited as the motivations for the things you put in place, other communities had that too, and yet we saw, especially in the long-term care homes, just thousands of people who died in them in other parts of your province. Is that a failure of leadership, do you think?

KM: At times. But I also have to say that we're a smaller health unit. The complexity increases dramatically when you get to large urban settings. I'm in a setting where I have 211,000 individuals I care for. I know most of the family docs. I know the emergency docs. We are well coordinated. I can call the resources or the medical director of the long-term care facility and know them by name. When you get into a large urban setting, it's much more difficult.

CH: From our archives, that was Ontario’s next Chief Medical Officer of Health Dr. Kieran Moore speaking with Carol in March.

[music: ambient]

FOA: TRC Work

CH: The news that a preliminary report has found the remains of children on the grounds of the former Kamloops Indian Residential School is horrifying. But as we heard from B.C. Assembly of First Nations regional chief Terry Teegee it is not surprising. It's a story that has circulated within the Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation for years. "unknowing" -- as Chief Rosanne Casimir put it. It's also the kind of terrible reality that was unearthed some six years ago in the final report of Canada's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. In 2015, when it was released, Justice Murray Sinclair was the chair of the commission. And he spoke with Carol about whether he felt the Commission's work was complete.

SOUNDCLIP

MURRAY SINCLAIR: I would say that the work is actually just beginning, but not for us so much as it is for the rest of the country.

CO: Some of the... what you were able to learn, including that there were 3,200 deaths in the residential schools. You say this does not represent the true number. Why don't we know how many kids actually died in those schools?

MS: Part of it is because the records are missing. There's large numbers of records that are not there in the archives that should have been there and should be there. We've been told some of them were accidentally destroyed. We're told that some of them were damaged by water, so --

CO: Were any deliberately destroyed?

MS: It's quite conceivable that some of these were inadvertently included in the destruction orders at certain points in the history of Canadian archives.

CO: Well, there have been some suggestions that there were cover-ups of some of these deaths. Do you subscribe to that?

MS: See, we don't know that because we didn't have the time, the resources to be able to go into the archives and actually begin to look seriously at the files related to the children who died. We do know that 3,201 names that we have identified died over a period of time. And we know that the records are incomplete. And we know that there was poor reporting and then deliberate underreporting by schools. Sometimes they would transfer children over to hospitals before they died, and they wouldn't track them as deaths in the schools. Sometimes they simply declared one part of the school as a hospital. And if they died in that... that portion of the school, they didn't record them as school deaths. They then recorded them as hospital deaths. And so we think it's probably at least twice that. It might be even higher than that. But the point that we made in our call to action is that we need to ensure that there is a commitment to look into all of those records and to research the issue of the children who died in the schools more completely.

CO: well, there were crimes committed. Clearly, in the course of this, we can see crimes were committed. And we know the RCMP has investigated. There have been charges in the past. But don't... do you think, do you see a place for more charges to be laid?

MS: I doubt it. I don't think that there are a lot more perpetrators who are still alive. You mentioned that the last school closed in 96, and that's true. But the last person who was old enough to work in the schools at that point in time would probably by now be in their late 70s, 80s and 90s if they were still alive. Most of the perpetrators who have been identified by the survivors and their statements to the courts, to the police, are probably no longer alive. And whether criminal proceedings will begin is really a question that they need to think through themselves.

CO: Just one last question. When you started this six years ago, did you realize the journey you were on?

MS I had a pretty good idea, which is why I initially declined to do it. Because I knew it was going to be emotional. I know there's going to be charged. I knew it was going to be physically and psychologically, and spiritually demanding. I didn't know where it was going to take us geographically in the country. But at the same time, once we committed to it, we never looked back. We never stopped in our determination to make sure that we did what we could do. And that we went where we had to go.

CH: Justice Murray Sinclair. The report prompted calls for new investigations, and for justice. And those calls have been renewed by the discovery of remains on the grounds of the former Kamloops Indian Residential School. The finding has also renewed calls to name the victims of residential schools and tell their stories. Some of those stories have been shared, to powerful effect. For instance, Chanie Wenjack's. The12-year-old boy ran away from a residential school near Kenora, Ontario in 1966 -- and froze to death trying to make the 600-kilometre journey home. In 2016, his story was told in "Secret Path," an album by the late Gord Downie, as well as a film and graphic novel. Pearl Wenjack is Chanie's sister. She calls him Charlie. And she spoke to Carol in October, 2016.

SOUNDCLIP

PEARL WENJACK: We've always walked in the rain when we've had joy. Charlie didn't walk in the rain when he had joy. Charlie was only walking because he had to. I felt... I felt the fear that he had when I saw those pictures. I felt the aloneness that he must have had when I saw those pictures. You know, being 12 years old, you don't really understand the whole world. And that's how I felt. I was back there with him.

CO: What does the story tell? What is the part of the... what happened to Charlie that's in this... in this film and in this book?

PW: The story of Charlie should have never happened. The death that he went through. And the pictures that was done was very graphic, but it was the stark truth. And I don't believe that any child should suffer just to go to school, just to make something of himself.

CO: Charlie had gone to a residential school. Do you want to tell us about that? What do you remember as yourself as a girl when your brother went away to school?

PW: When he left, I didn't go to school when he left because my... my name was not on the list. And... and he had said that he didn't want to leave. And the day that he left, we were…. we were standing on the pontoons of the aeroplane that he was leaving in. And he kept on saying that he didn't want to leave. You know, why you're not going? You know, because I don't want to go if you're... if you're not going. And I told him, you know, my name is not on the list, you know? And I told him, you have to go. And he kept on insisting, you know, that he didn't want to go. And then when I told him that he has to go, then he said, OK.

CO: And this was when he left to go to Cecilia Jeffrey Residential School?

PW: Yes, mm-hmm. What do you know about his life there when he got to that school? My life was probably the same as his. When I left at six years old, I... I had to fend for myself. And being a boy, the only boy, he didn't have anybody else. I had two older sisters that was there with me. But even then, we were separated. And if... if my sister was comforting me in any way, shape or form and I was crying, they would be punished. [breaking down] And I'm pretty sure Charlie had to do everything on his own because he had nobody else. We never, hardly ever saw him when he was, you know, when he was in the same school.

CO: What decision did he make about going home? What do you know about that decision?

PW: I think he just wanted to go home. And that was it. It didn't matter to him how he was going to get there, didn't matter to him how scary it was, you know? All I think he could have... he must have thought of was the safety of the home, the happiness that he had experienced there with Dad and Mom.

CO: When you see Charlie drawn like that as... as an animation, and to see his... the story and what happened to him, what he went through, as someone's imagining it because no one was there with him. Your brother was completely alone. It had to be imagined in these pictures. It had quite an effect on you to see that, didn't it?

PW: Yes, it did. He... he really captured what was going on as he was walking. And even the figure that he had there, yeah, Charlie was scrawny, you know? And even the face, he always had that almost like a sad face, you know? That was driven too.

CO: Has this project, has working on this and telling the story this way, has it given you any peace?

PW: It has a great deal. Because I'm very much concerned about the children going to high schools and losing their lives. And every time a child loses his life, or her life, I walk through the same path as they have. And I remember Charlie again.

CH: Charlie Wenjack's sister, Pearl, speaking with Carol in 2016.

[music: Spanish guitar]

Part 3: Refugee Covid Backlog, Obit: Elisapee Ootoova

Refugee Covid Backlog

Guests: Alaa Salih, Sandra Nixon

CH: COVID-19 has put a lot of things on hold. And for Alaa Salih it has put practically everything on hold. The Iraqi refugee had already been living in limbo in Jordan for five years when the pandemic struck. And before it did, he was tantalizingly close to leaving Amman for Canada -- where he could live openly as a gay man. Specifically, for Vancouver -- where members of Trinity Grace United Church had co-sponsored his refugee application. Now, more than a year later, he is one of thousands of privately sponsored refugees whose applications remain on hold, thanks to travel restrictions,and a backlog advocates say is only growing. We reached Alaa Salih in Amman, Jordan. And Trinity Grace minister Sandra Nixon is in Vancouver.

HM: Alaa, can I start with you? And tell me how close you were to getting onto a plane to Canada before the pandemic happened?

ALAA SALIH: I think one month. Because I complete everything, I completed everything. It was a very difficult time for me because, you know, I was so excited to get to Canada. It's my new country. So... and I was very excited to meet my friends in United Church. And when the pandemic comes, I feel disappointed. Sometimes I felt fed up. It was very difficult time for me to wait for a long time. And still, there is no news from the Canadian officials.

HM: How did you find out that COVID-19 was going to disrupt that plan to come to Canada?

AS: I never was thinking I will be waiting for a long time because of pandemic. It was a surprise for me.

SANDRA NIXON: Helen, if I... if I might just jump in? There was no communication. The way we found out it was going to be a complete stall for the past year is that we have not heard anything for the past year, despite our attempts to... to contact IRCC and... and get some information on the status of Alaa’s application.

HM: So all that time you were waiting, it was not knowing when he was going to come or if he was going to come?

SN: Absolutely. Alaa had, as he said, had completed all the paperwork. He'd been to his interview in Amman. And he’d passed his medical exam. And so everything was ready except waiting to... to have the visa issued and a plane ticket. Unfortunately, you can't make an official enquiry into the status of... of a... of a refugee application. At that time, it was until 12 months have passed without you having any communication. They then extended that to, I think, 16 months. So we waited patiently for the 16-month time limit, and then contacted the MP in our church's area, Jenny Kwan. And where we were then able to make an official inquiry, which is when the... the only other information we've really been given is that resources had been diverted, people have been working from home, and that the government's been prioritizing other immigration applications and family reunification. And so it doesn't seem like they have a lot of staff working on... on refugee files at this time.

HM: Alaa, can you tell us what life was like for you back before you went to Jordan when you were a gay man living in Iraq? What happened? What was your life like?

AS: It's very difficult to be gay in the Middle East. And, you know, Iraq, it's very dangerous country, especially for the gays. And there is no gay life in Iraq. And when I arrived to Jordan, I cannot work in Jordan. And there is no chance to get help from any organization because of pandemic. So the United Church, they decided to send some money for me to pay for my room rent and to buy some food. So it's... it's very difficult, you know?

HM: What about the situation in Jordan? You say it's very difficult to be a gay man in the Middle East generally. Have things been better for you the past six years, at least in terms of... of your feelings of safety?

AS: It's not safety. Nobody knows I'm gay. So now I'm living in my room. If the owner knows that I am gay, he will ask me to leave. And if anybody knows that, it's very dangerous. So maybe they will back me into Iraq if they know that I'm gay.

HM: And yet, despite these risks, you have decided to talk with us about this and you spoke with the Globe and Mail newspaper last week as well. Why? Why have you come forward?

AS: Yes, this is... this is my decision. And I have nothing to lose because I just want to make the minister of immigration of Canada, maybe he can listen to me now. I am now fully-vaccinated. And I can do my coronavirus test before leaving to Canada. So I just have a question why I can not get to Canada now? And how long I have to wait in Jordan?

HM: And Sandra, you have the same questions on this end. Do you have any reason to be optimistic now that you have spoken with the... your MP and... and you're trying to pursue this further?

SN: Well, we do. We are feeling optimistic at this point. It's been hard to to stay hopeful with... with absolutely no word and no communication for over a year. Now, with at least a letter to sponsors and with an indication that perhaps with offices reopening, that staff will be back at their desks working on these files and possibly with Alaa others being able to... to... to come forward and tell their stories. As difficult as that is, it is very courageous. And we're... we're just here to... to support him the best we can. What we want and what we're looking forward to and hanging on to is the day that we can... we can welcome him here to Canada, to Vancouver, to see him surrounded by a supportive network and community and able to to live an authentic life and find some healing finally.

HM: And meantime, how often do you speak? How often do you email or communicate?

AS: Well, fortunately, we are able to communicate. One of the silver linings with the pandemic is that the church adopted and took its activities online. And we've been having weekly Zoom coffee hour on Sundays. And Alaa has been joining us every... every Sunday. And so the benefit of that is that we've been able to get to know each other, established much more of a relationship than if he just, you know, arrived and we were getting to know him at that point. So that's been... that's been a big silver lining. And we've been able to offer some emotional support and, hopefully, help Alaa feel like he's not alone and not... not as isolated as well as the financial support.

HM: Does it help, Alaa?

AS: Yeah, of course. I still feel now my friends in the United Church, they are my family. So without the United Church helps, I am homeless now. I was very happy when I met them because they were very nice with me. And they... they helped me in this hard time to waiting to get to Canada.

HM: I wish you, Alaa, the best of luck in getting through to Canada as soon as you can to your new home. And I thank you both very much for speaking with us.

AS: Thank you very much.

SN: Thank you very much, Helen.

HM: All right. Goodbye.

SN: Take care.

AS: Goodbye.

CH: Alaa Salih is an Iraqi refugee -- living in Amman, Jordan. Sandra Nixon is the Minister at Trinity Grace United Church in Vancouver. Mr. Salih's story was first covered by the Globe and Mail, which also reported that as many 50,000 privately sponsored refugees are stuck in limbo due to Canada's COVID-19 backlog.

[music: folk]

Ideas Promo: "The Overstory and the Understory: Reconciling Canadian Law with Indigenous Peoples"

CH: Tonight on IDEAS: justice, as the saying goes, is blind. For centuries, the iconic symbol of justice is an elegantly robed woman, holding out her scales, with a blindfold covering her eyes. The discovery of the remains of dozens of Indigenous children at a former residential school in Kamloops, BC cuts into a nerve in this country: the state of justice for First Nations people in Canada. Indigenous women make up 41 per cent of the female population in federal prisons. Most of those women are mothers. And Indigenous men make up nearly a third of the male population in federal prisons. So Métis lawyer Jean Teillet says that, in Canada's legal system, justice is not blind. Tonight on "Ideas", Ms. Teillet argues that the Canadian system of law bends its full force against Indigenous people in this country.

SOUNDCLIP

JEAN TEILLET: So in Canadian justice, we don't actually talk about justice. We talk about process. We talk about due process. We talk about the impartial implementation of the law. We talk about the consistent application of the law. This is all mechanism, right? It's all about process. We think if the process is fair, that equates to justice, right? We think that issues can be dissected into very discrete ideas, and that will get you justice. We think that the Canadian law is neutral. I have people, actually judges, we have the best justice system in the whole world and nothing needs to change. I would like to point out to you that Canada is the only common law jurisdiction in the world that does not have a law reform commission. The Canadian law protects every Canadian citizen. That's another myth or big over story ldea. Now, look what just Aboriginal people say. They say due process has nothing to do with justice. They say that the implementation of the rule of law is not impartial. And I think I've just showed you that they've got a pretty good argument to say that. They see that consistent application of the law. Well, it's being consistently applied to them. But is that justice? I think they think it's... and…. and report after report after report says it's systemic racism at play, that Canadian law is not neutral and that it doesn't protect Indigenous peoples as peoples or as individuals.

CH: Indigenous rights lawyer Jean Teillet. Her lecture, "The Overstory and the Understory: Reconciling Canadian Law with Indigenous Peoples", airs tonight on "Ideas" -- after "As It Happens".

[music: uke]

Obit: Elisapee Ootoova

Guest: Martha Kyak

CH: She left a legacy of language and stories. Elisapee Ootoova created materials for the Inuktitut language, including a dictionary of a traditional language of north Baffin. By sharing the language of her elders, she spread knowledge to the younger generation. Elisapee Ootoova received the Order of Canada for her work. The elder from Pond Inlet, Nunavut died last week at the age of 90. Martha Kyak was a close friend of Ms. Ootoova. We reached her in Ottawa.

HM: Martha, first of all, I'm very sorry for your loss.

MARTHA KYAK: Yeah, thank you.

HM: You grew up in Pond Inlet, which is the same community as Elisapee. What are your earliest memories of her?

MK: I would see her at the church because she was a layperson, so she… you would often see her at the church. And when I started working at the school, we would often invite her to our school. Then I started working with her once I started working for Teaching and Learning Centre, Department of Education.

HM: She had led a very traditional life as a child and for some years afterwards as well. What did you know of that?

MK: A lot, like most of Inuit elders, they grew up very traditionally out on the camps and sod house. And then they were moved to settlements. And that's how I remember, and my parents as well, that's how they grew up.

HM: Did she speak a lot about that?

MK: Yeah, she would. And she had many stories, and some of them were very interesting to listen to.

HM: Can you think of anything that stands out for you in particular?

MK: The name change was interesting. She had to get used to her new name, Elisapee. She would often forget that someone is calling her. Then she would remember, oh, Elisapee is my new name. So she would turn around and say, what?

HM: Why did she have a new name? Who gave her the new name?

MK: That was a Christian name. When they were baptized, they changed the... their names to Biblical names. When they gave her a new name, it was Elisapee. From the Bible, it's Elizabeth.

HM: Mm-hmm. Did she feel bad about losing her Inuktitut name?

MK: She never had a negative feeling about it. That was just a change that happened. And she found it funny that she had to learn her new name.

HM: Tell me a bit about this work you did together at the Teaching and Learning Centre. Why did you decide to bring her in to work with you?

MK: We would often interview elders, but I decided why not hire an elder to work with us? So we hired Elisapee. And I taught her how to use the Mac computer all in Inuktitut. And she learned pretty fast. And I also taught her InDesign to create books. So that's how we started.

HM: What were her relationships like with the people that she was interviewing, with the other elders? I mean, did she bring something special to it because of her own experience?

MK: She knew exactly what they were talking about. And she was able to add on to what they were saying. So she was very valuable in that area. Yeah, she was amazing,

Speaker 1: The Inuit dictionary and encyclopaedia she helped create, how important are they in helping preserve Inuit culture and heritage?

MK: It's very important. She... she was very passionate about our language and our culture and to keep it strong. And that's one of the things that they started and was able to finish when she started working for Teaching and Learning Centre. It's always helping us with a look to get words going back to it and seeing the definition.

HM: Do you think much of that would have been lost without her?

MK: Yes, it would have been. Like, a lot of words are not used anymore, and we go back to the dictionary and see what it means.

HM: I understand that she like to sing. Do you have any recordings of that?

MK: Yes, she was very good in singing traditional songs. She said that she learned a lot from her late father-in-law. When she came here to Ottawa, I invited her to our school, and I recorded her singing. And that I plan to keep.

HM: Yeah, it'll be a lovely memento to have.

MK: Yes.

HM: Um, when was the last time you spoke with her?

MK: When I was in Pond Inlet, I visited her, and that was the last time I saw her and spoke with her.

HM: Can you tell me about that visit a little bit?

MK: It was emotional. We haven't seen each other for a long time. And she lost a few of her family members, and her sight wasn't good. So she didn't recognize me until I started speaking. She recognized me, and she started crying. And we both got emotional, and we hugged as well. And we just spoke. And, yeah, we had a very good bond because we worked together for so long.

HM: Mm-hmm.

MK: Yeah.

HM: So she's had this incredibly important role in preserving Inuit culture and the Inuktitut language. Personally, though. Is there some characteristic of her, some memory that you will carry forward with you?

MK: She was full of wisdom. And if I needed advice, or anyone needed advice, they would go to her, and she would give really good advice. Like, I had an argument with one of the people. In a small community, you can't just brush it away. So I went to her asking how do I deal with it? And she gave me a really good advice, never to argue with someone. That is foolish, don't go to their level. So I learned a lot from that talk from her. So, these wise words from her, I will carry forever.

HM: Mm-hmm. She sounds like she was very special. Um, thank you again for sharing your memories with us. I appreciate it.

MK: Thank you.

HM: OK, bye.

MK: Bye.

CH: Martha Kyak was a close friend of Ms. Ootoova, an Inuit elder who has died at the age of 90. Ms. Kyak was in Ottawa.

[music: sad piano]

Cat In Lake

CH:A Regina woman sensed her cat wanted to test the waters of the great outdoors. But she didn't intend to literally test the waters. On Saturday, Hilary Pradinuk put her cat Felix inside a cat backpack, as one does, and embarked on what she thought would be a lovely little hike. But in the blink of an eye, Felix ended up in a lake -- and a local Manitoba MLA came to the rescue. Here's part of what Hilary Pradinuk told CBC today.

SOUNDCLIP

HILARY PRADINUK: He's an Asian leopard cat. You can harness-train them, leash-train them, and you can go on little adventures with them. And I was like, OK, like, let's... I just want him to get outside. Like, I just want him to like, see everything. He sniffs the plants when I bring them in at night. He just wants to get out there. He's also like 17 pounds, by the way. So, like, I have to like lift this intense cat and shove him in a backpack. But I was like, OK, you know, we're going to get in the backpack. Like, we're getting in the backpack. [cat in background being a cat] He just woke up.

STEFANI LANGENEGGER: [chuckling] Morning, Felix.

HP: So, yes, I did get him in the backpack. And then we were on our way. And it was like smooth sailing. He was loving it. We got a picture, like a stranger down the street, took our picture.

SL: You guys look so cute. When did things go wrong?

HP: It went really wrong really quick. The moment I was like, OK, I want to get a picture of him, like, I'm going to prop him up against this tree. It's a nice, big, sturdy tree. And it looked to me like we were near a hill where he can move. And so I was like, OK, I'll get down, like, to his level. I'm pulling my phone out of my back pocket, and he just moves, like he just shuffles in the back to, like, turn around. And I just I, like, I honestly, like, when people are just like what happened? I'm like, I think I just blacked out. But I do remember, but, like, just trauma instantly. [chuckling] I saw him rolling down the hill like a freaking hamster in wheel. And I screamed it. And I just... I... I guess I threw my phone. I threw my keys, which I did not even, like, I don't know how I remember to get those away from me before I jumped in the lake. [SL laughs] But he rolled down the hill, land in the water. I remember looking up, and nobody was there. And he was fully submerged at this point. So I was like, I have to feel around for him. So I grabbed him out, prop him up on the hill, but I can't let go of him because it's too steep. So if I let go for even a second, he's back down there. So I'm holding and holding him up. And that is when Mr. Trent, Superman, is across the lake. He's screaming at me. I'm like, yes, please come help me! He was on a nice little Saturday jog. And he busted his butt to come save us.

SL: And it turned out to be Trent Wotherspoon, MLA. Who, as you say, ran like a frickin cheetah.

HP: He ran like a freaking cheetah! [both laughing] He booked it. And so he grabbed me. That's all I cared about was getting Felix out. I didn't care if I had to stay there for hours. He grabbed him. I don't…. I think, puts him back up on the path, [chuckling] away from a hill, away from anything. And then he comes back, and he just, like, lifts me out of the water, this swamp creature. Like, drenched head to toe, disgusting. And he just... like, we all say thank you. Like, there's a few people around.

SL: Yeah.

HP: Yeah. He was great.

CH: That was Hilary Pradinuk speaking to "Morning Edition" in Regina, with host Stefani Langenegger today.

[music: instrumental]

CNN Cicadas

CH: Listen, I'm not pointing any fingers but: you know when you're at work, trying to focus on, oh I don't know, the live broadcast you're about to do, and someone is just really really bugging you. You try to ignore it, because you're a professional. Just focus on your work, you tell yourself. Maybe they'll go away. Or maybe they'll crawl purposefully up the front of your suit jacket and then attempt to burrow down the back of your crisp white shirt collar where your actual neck is. At which point you might be forgiven for completely losing it. Which is exactly what CNN's Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju did late last week -- moments before a live stand-up on Capitol Hill.

SOUNDCLIP

[a man screams in disgust and swears]

[laughing]

MANU RAJU: Where are the cicadas coming from?

CH: Everywhere! Inadvertently buzz-worthy CNN reporter Manu Raju, making memories with a cicada while preparing to go live in Washington, D.C.

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May 31, 2021 Episode Transcript

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