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The AIH Transcript for March 5, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Forcing the issue of force. After the US Congress passes a police reform bill championed by George Floyd's family, one of his uncles tells us it means his nephew did not die in vain.

CH: Don't abandon ship. The captain of a seized migrant rescue vessel says criminal charges against him and 20 others mustn't stop NGOs from patrolling the Mediterranean because too many lives are at stake.

CO: It's as complicated as the nose on her face. Award winning restaurant critic Tejal Rao lost her sense of smell when she got covid. But now she's using everything from burnt oranges to dogs breath in an effort to get it back.

CH: Overkill. Wisconsin abruptly cut short a week-long hunt for grey wolves after more than 200 animals are killed in just three days, far more than the quota for the season.

CO: Bird's eye views. After it was erroneously suggested that the key ingredient in a nanaimo bar is bird's eye custard powder. You got a little heated about the no bake squares.

CH: And getting his ducks faces in a row. A Halifax man cries fowl after he opens a mysterious delivery to find a fluffy stuffed duckling with three heads. As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that knows nothing in this life is certain except death and taxidermy.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Police Reform Bill

Police Reform Bill

Guest: Selwyn Jones

CH: After George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis police last May, millions of people took to the streets demanding authorities act against racial injustice and for police reform. On Wednesday, the US House of Representatives took a first step toward doing that. They passed the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. Mr. Floyd's uncle, Selwyn Jones has been pushing for the motion. We reached him in Gettysburg, South Dakota.

CO: Selwyn, what does it mean for your family that there is now the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act, that's passed its first hurdle?

SELWYN JONES: It is like Christmas, my dear, because what that means is my nephew's life was not in vain. What that means is there's Going to be less casualties in this world because qualified immunity has kept them able to harm people and not to be accountable for harming people. Now, if they harm a suspect, they're just as liable as a suspect.

CO: And when you say they, you mean police and just so people understand this. This is, in the bill that was known as qualified immunity, which helps shield police officers from civil lawsuits for doing things that were not criminal, but they're sueable. So how much of a roadblock has that been for the Floyd family and it's efforts in the courts?

SJ: You know, the criminal case, that's [inaudible] complicated. Civil case, I don't really think there is a particular roadblock because everybody in the world is seeing what happened to my nephew and contrary on how the courts play this, you know, seeing is, believing. So I think we'll have good standing there, hopefully. But the criminal case is the case that gets a little bit complicated because a simple fact, they do have qualified immunity. And I, you know, eventually I would like to see qualified immunity advanced to the point if you harm him, you go to jail for assault. But, hey, you got to crawl before you walk, you know, so anything's better than people being able to shoot people in the back or choke them about and just murder them because they have got authority and they have qualified immunity because of their power and control.

CO: You mentioned some of the other things that are in this legislation, a ban on chokeholds, there'll be a database of police misconduct so that will be used, there will be a limit to no knock warrants. Another big issue in your country.

CO: Are there things that are not in this bill, that you said you have to crawl before you walk. Are the things that you regret they didn't include?

SJ: The biggest one to me is not being able to charge them criminally because reality is, yeah, it's going to make them slow down, especially if they know that they got to come out of their pocket. But reality is, how many people can literally take people to federal court because of the expense of it? Not many. And if you haven't noticed, it's people that are booked that are in poverty or above poverty. In essence, poor people, that always get put in these bad situations. And there's also another point in there of having a policing authority that doesn't come from your same precinct, because if me and you worked together and you did something, I had to be the judge, jury, I'm going to look out for you a little bit better.

CO: To be investigated by an outside police force, but...

SJ: Having them drug tested immediately after, instead of waiting 48 hours for them to diffuse. Drug test em. Take the statement right then, because we want everybody to go home. I want to go home. I want them to go home. But, you know, my nephew wanted to go home really bad, Miss Carol, and he don't get an opportunity anymore because of power and control.

CO: Is there anything in this bill that would have prevented your nephew, George Floyd, from dying?

SJ: Absolutely not, Miss Carol, if you were to examine the 992 videos that they have out, my nephew started pretty much beging, pleading from the first contact with the police officer and through him getting out of the car. Mr. police officer, okay I'm going to do what you say, I'm gonna do what you say, I don't want to be, you know, I don't want to be killed. I don't want to be killed. I've been shot before. The whole video, my nephew, pretty much pleading for his life they get him out of the car [inaudible] building. Sir, I'm going to do what you tell me to do,I just don't want no problems.You know, I don't want to be killed. He narrated his own death.

CO: The trial for Derek Javin begins on Monday and for the murder of your nephew, we're not clear yet what exactly the charges will be. Will you be able to attend? I know it's very limited as to who can be there?

SJ: There's one person allowed in the courtroom, one person! Now, keep in mind, I'm the baby of 17 people and we got one person that's allowed in the courtroom. So what I'm going to do is, I got my nephews back. I have always had his back and I will always have his back. I'm going to probably appear on Monday, Tuesday.

CO: So you'll have some time that you'll be able to be in that courtroom at some point, I guess.

SJ: Well, I sure hope, dear, because right now we've got a lot of different parts moving on this machine. And the part that I'm driving is equality and justice. I'm the one that is advocating for equality and justice in my family and basically for all the families of slain victims, we can't bring George back. David Chauvin, like I tell everybody, I'm not mad at him. I'm mad at this horrific system that was created for black people 400 years ago. The police was created to catch runaway slaves, to save the masters from the runaway slaves. And pretty much what it's done there hasn't changed a lot in 400 years.

CO: Selwyn, we will be following the court case beginning next week, we will definitely be following what happens to this bill as it moves to the Senate. I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SJ: Yes, ma'am.

CO: Take care.

CH: Selwyn Jones is George Floyd's uncle. On Wednesday, the US House of Representatives passed the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act. It's unlikely the bill will be passed by the Senate. We reached Mr. Jones in Gettysburg, South Dakota.

[Music: Piano instrumental]

Tejal Rao-Loss of Smell

Guest: Tejal Rao

CH: Tejal Rao is very in tune with her nose. As a two time James Beard Foundation award winning restaurant critic. She relies on her refined sense of smell and taste to do her job. So when Ms. Rao Got covid, there was one lingering long term symptom she feared more than any other. Like millions of other people, Mesereau lost her sense of smell. Shortly after she got sick. And since then, she's been on a mission to recondition her brain and slowly restore her sense of smell using an experimental training routine. We reached Tejal Rao in Los Angeles.

CO: Tejal, a lot of people describe a moment when they suddenly realise they've lost their sense of smell? What was that moment for you?

TEJAL RAO: It was a moment that I can pinpoint. It happened, I was at home in Los Angeles. I was stepping into the shower and I thought that I was smelling a new smell at first something I couldn't really identify. And within a couple of minutes, it became clear that that wasn't a new smell. It was a blank. It was a total loss of smell.

CO: And so that was your first recollection and then how did it proceed? I mean, as you move through the day, there's so many things that we smell and we depend on. So what was that experience like?

TR: Yeah, my first thought, because I work in food and, you know, develop recipes and go to restaurants. My first thought was actually, you know, how am I going to do my job? But the truth is, that's sort of the least of your worries. If you've lost your sense of smell, it can be quite dangerous. You know, you might be unaware of smoke from a fire. You might not notice a gas leak. Your nose is constantly giving you all of the crucial information about your surroundings. It's really quite important beyond pleasure and food and deliciousness.

CO: And not just good tasting food, but bad tasting food. Right. I mean, you’ve got to know when something has spoilt or gone off.

TR: Exactly. Exactly. And without your nose, it's very hard to know. It's very hard to tell if fruit is ripe or rotten or if milk is spoilt or OK to use. I think we're constantly relying on our nose and our brain really just without realising it.

CO: How did you hear about this technique of smell training?

TR: I spoke to a woman named Chrissi Kelly, who lives in the UK, and she founded Abscent, which is an organisation, a non-profit organisation for people with anosmia. And when she got sick in 2012 and lost her sense of smell, no one really recommended smell training. It's become very popular now, in part because she looks into a lot of the scientific research that'd been done and taught herself smell training and then shared that with this whole online community, with people with anosmia. She's the one who sort of taught me about it and also walked me through a smell training session on how it should work.

CO: OK, can you walk us through a small training session?

TR: Yeah, I'll try. I can try my best. What you want to do is open up a little vial or jar or something. An essential oil, let's say, rose flavoured essential oil and bring it up to your nose. Instead of taking a deep breath, you take these tiny little sniffs and Chrissi calls them Bunnie sniffs which is a very helpful way to think about it for me. You take in these tiny snips and that brings more of the aroma to your olfactory clasp and then you just take time. It's almost like being in therapy of some kind. You think, you visualise. You take note, Chrissi, used the term listening because it's very hard to talk about smelling without using metaphors. And it is kind of like that. You're waiting and waiting to get some information.

CO: What were the smells that started to come back? Just describe which ones when you had a moment when you thought maybe I got that one.

TR: Yeah. Well, I was using, I sort of turned to my kitchen and I turned to ingredients, fish sauce bottles, fresh herbs, whole spices. Actually, the first smell that came back was awful for me. It was spoiled milk. I opened a bottle of milk to put into my, to pour into my tea and it made me gag. But I was really happy about it because I was happy to have any smell sensation back. So thrilling. Actually, I feel very lucky.

CO: I understand you spoke with the Canadian who went viral and Tik Tok after demonstrating how to use burnt Seville oranges to revive scents. What did you learn from him?

TR: That's right. I talked to Kemar Lalor, whose mother, Trudy-anne, is from Jamaica, and they have a restaurant called Big G's 241 Jerk Chicken in Ontario. And the family runs it together and they have this remedy for any time someone in their family is feeling sick, have a cold or have the flu. They take a whole raw orange, put it over a gas flame and completely char the peel so that it's totally black all over and then cut it off with a knife and take the hot orange, mix it with a little sugar and eat with a spoon. And when Kemar put a video for that process up on TikTok, it went viral and millions of people were trying the technique. Calling it the orange remedy or the Jamaican orange remedy.

CO: What were the smells you missed the most?

TR: Yeah, that's such a personal question, you know, I missed... I did miss food immediately, but I also missed the smell that sort of makes me feel close and connected to the people I love. I miss the smell of my husband, his hair, his T-shirt. At the end of the day, I miss even sort of yucky smells. You know, I miss the smell of my dog breath, which is not pleasant, but I found myself missing it all the same.

CO: And how much of it is back now?

TR: It's hard to put a number on it. You know, I want to say... I want to say it's completely back. But the truth is, because the process is non-linear, there's still moments or days when I can't access something and it's very frustrating. So it feels like it's all the way back. But I have to kind of remind myself it's not and keep smell training.

CO: And what about work? Are you back at work?

TR: I am. Yeah, I am. I'm able to eat normally and taste everything. So I am back at work going, you know, going to restaurants and also developing recipes.

CO: Well, hopefully we're all going back to the restaurant soon because everyone misses that life and I'm sure you do as well.

TR: I do. I do. I'm just waiting for, you know, restaurant workers to be vaccinated and for it to be safe. And hopefully that'll happen soon.

CO: It will. We'll be back to normal. Tejal, it's good to talk to you.

TR: You too. Thank you so much for having me.

CO: Bye.

TR: Bye.

CH: Tejal Rao is an award winning restaurant critic and columnist for the New York Times Magazine. We reached her in Los Angeles.

[Music: Percussion instrumental]

Duckling Taxidermy

Guest: Brent Braaten

CH: It's two o'clock in the morning, you've binged your way through Love Island on Netflix and reached the bottom of the Cool Ranch Doritos bag, and that's generally, when it happens. Consumed by self-loathing, you start browsing the Internet and end up buying some useless item that you promptly forget about until it ends up on your doorstep, weeks later. Last week, a random package landed on Brent Braaten's doorstep. It turned out not to be the result of some impulsive online purchase, and it has left him with a strange mystery that he's not sure he wants to solve. We reached Brent Braaten in Halifax.

CO: Brent, this is a really weird story, you have to admit.

BRENT BRAATEN: Yeah, it is pretty weird.

CO: What did you think when you got the package? Did you know you have any idea what was in it?

BB: Well, it's funny because I was expecting a package that week. I was expecting two lacrosse balls. But when I picked up the package, it was a lot lighter than what a lacrosse ball would be. So I wasn't sure what it was. It was just a small, nondescript cardboard package.

CO: OK, eventually. And it was addressed to you, right?

BB: It was addressed to me, yep. And it came from China somewhere.

CO: OK, and then you opened it. What was the first impression you had as you opened this package?

BB: It was, um. Well, OK, let me let me take you through it. So I had this package. I open up the cardboard box inside the cardboard box was a second cardboard box. I opened up a second cardboard box and it was filled with all sorts of plastic packaging. And I started digging through the packaging. And that's when a single duckling head emerged.

CO: Like the head of a baby duck?

BB: It was the head of a baby duck. And it really took me off guard. I kind of leapt back and sort of looked at it for a while, wasn't sure what to do with it. But once my curiosity got the better of me, I returned to the package and started digging more. And I found, the more I dug, the more baby duck heads I found. In the end, the package contained a taxidermied three headed mutant baby duckling.

CO: OK, so had you ever... Did you order this? I mean, is there a late night session that you've forgotten that this may have been something you thought you just had to have and you and you ordered it on eBay?

BB: Well, Carol, I'm going to be honest with you. I have had a few too many to drink, and I accidentally ordered something off of eBay that I maybe hadn't intended to. But once I got this package, I checked my bank statements and it turned out that I hadn't. I hadn't made this purchase. So someone else purchased it for me.

CO: Well, OK. What does it look like?

BB: Well, it's cute. It's anything you'd expect a duckling to look like. The only difference is there are two too many heads.

CO: There are three heads. And it's OK. It's weird to get a taxidermy baby duck in the mail and you didn't order. But what's with the three headed baby duckling? I mean, did you Google that to find out anything about this little trophy you got?

BB: [Chuckle] Well, I guess it is weird. It's a pretty weird thing to find. Like no one ever expects there to be a dead animal in their mailbox when they wake up in the morning. But I did some research and there weren't a lot of clues in the package itself. I have an idea that it probably comes from a taxidermy company in China somewhere.

CO: OK, well, that's a good clue, given it's from China and it's a taxidermied baby duck. But who sent it to you?

BB: I don't know. I'm not sure. When I looked at the name on the package, I did a little bit of Internet sleuthing. I came upon a Chinese zoologist turned taxidermist who has a similar name as the name on my package. But they mostly centre on larger animals like elephants or zebras or like big cats.

CO: OK, good thing. Good thing that didn't come in the mail.

BB: That would never fit in my mail slot.

CO: So I mean, but it says Brent Braaten on it, right. It has your name on it. It's for you. Somebody ordered this for you. Unless you did it yourself. you said you didn't. So somebody ordered this for you.

BB: Somebody did. Yes. My theory is that it's either a really good friend who wanted to mail me a special mystery or it's perhaps an enemy that wanted to send me a cursed object.

CO: OK, there's also I mean, I guess it's not the sort of thing that the Mafia would send. I mean, this is not the fiction here, right? You don't send a three headed baby duckling unless you're trying to send a message of some kind. Right.

Well, I don't know too much about the Mafia, but what I do know is usually they only send the head.

CO: It came with instructions. Right? Can you tell us what they said?

BB: The first instruction was once it was taken out of the plastic wrapping to set it out in the sun or an open area. I suppose we need to off gas the way you would off gas a new mattress from IKEA.

CO: Right, It needs to breathe, OK.

BB: It needed to breathe, right? Yeah, the duckling needed to breathe. The second instruction was to use a normal electric hair dryer to fluffy up the ducks' feathers.

CO: Fluffy up.

BB: Yeah, that's right. And I'm really good at following instructions. So that's exactly what I did.

CO: And have you named your pet?

BB: Well, I did. I put it up online and asked my friends what they thought that I should call it. And a lot of people have called for it to be called Huey, Dewey and Louie. That makes sense. Mm hmm. Somebody suggested I should call it cerberus as an ode to the three headed dog that guards the gates to hades in Greek mythology. I thought that's a pretty good idea.

CO: You know, this is the second story of multi headed birds we've had from Nova Scotia in as many weeks.

BB: Really?

CO: Yes, but the other one was living. So mere coincidence. I probably. Yeah.

BB: I'll tell you what, I'll say it's a coincidence until the third incident, in which case I'll say that maybe there's something going on.

CO: All right. We will check back with you, Brent, and nice to talk to you. Thanks.

BB: Nice talking to you, too. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

CH: Brent Braaten is trying to figure out who sent him a three headed taxidermy duckling in the mail. We reached him in Halifax.

[Music: electric guitar instrumental]

Nanaimo Bars - Talkback

CH: Yesterday on the show, we covered a very divisive topic and based on our voicemail this morning, your problem with our coverage was threefold. The subject was nanaimo bars, specifically the ratio of the three layers that make up the Canadian delicacy. Nanaimo bar aficionados take that ratio very seriously. So when The New York Times cooking section posted a photo of a nanaimo bar with a very thin layer of custard, Canadians were outraged and rightly so. So we called up a cookbook author who's credited with helping popularise the bars to get her take. Susan Mendelson told us the key to that golden ratio is bird's eye custard powder. But it seems like that one layer is still the sticking point. Here's what you told Talkback.

[Sound clip: voicemail tone]

VOICE 1: This is Audrey Boyce Ottawa, I think Ms. Mendleson has not made any Nanaimo recently, it’s Bird's custard powder, not Bird's eye custard powder, bye.

CH: It's true, it is Bird's custard powder, not bird's eye, which apparently people really cling to. We also received this tweet from Beth Dunlop, who wrote, I've had this kind of bird's custard since at least 1978, which is when I moved to B.C. I guess it goes a long way, or at least it went a long way at one point. If you have any half or third baked opinions to share with us, you can always call TALKBACK at 416-205-5687 or email us at aih@cbc.ca.

[Music: Upbeat piano instrumental]

Part 2: Captain charged after saving migrants in Mediterranean says people are still drowning

Migrant Rescuers Charged

Guest: Dariush Beigui

CH: Nearly four years ago, authorities seized Dariush Beigui ship the Iuventa. Now Italian prosecutors have charged the captain of the rescue vessel, along with nearly two dozen other volunteers from three organisations. They're accused of abetting illegal immigration, implicated for their work, saving thousands of migrants from drowning in the Mediterranean. And the charges against them carry sentences of up to 20 years. It's not the first time rescue workers operating in the region have faced prosecution, but it is the first time so many have been charged at once. We reached Dariush Beigui in Hamburg, Germany.

CO: Dariush, how are you reacting to these charges?

DARIUSH BEIGUI: To be honest, in the beginning, I was really relaxed because I only within the message that the investigations are closed and I am one of the guys who was charged and we expected that all the time that it would happen. So I was not so shocked. But in the evening when I had time to read the whole PDF from the prosecutor, I was really a little bit shocked because it's not anymore about some people from the Iuventa. But it's now a trial against 22 persons in total and two organisations, Doctors Without Borders and Save the Children. And so from this small trial against us is coming a big trial against a big part of the NGO scene.

CO: You face and the others face a maximum penalty of possibly 20 years in prison. So what goes through your head when you consider that possibility?

DB: I, I cannot really imagine. I'm 42 years now. If I would go now for 20 years it's half of my life, I cannot imagine this. But on the other hand, I'm not afraid. I don't want to be the brave guy or something like this. But I know how other people are treated. And I know when I know when I go to prison, even if it's the highest charge, 20 years, maybe it could also be only five years or 10 years. It's also possible. But I know how long I would go. I would go in a European prison and I guess there will be lots of support. And I will be not I will feel all the time that I'm not alone. And European prison like a luxury hotel. When you compared with the Libyan camps where people flee from, which we rescue at sea and when it's criminal to save people, that's when we are at this moment in history. And it's OK to get criminal.

CO: We have done a number of stories about this, as many other news agencies have, and that as the Mediterranean became, many said, the largest graveyard in the world. What do you say in your defence, the charges of collaborating with smugglers, if that's a big accusation. What's your defence if you can give it to us in a nutshell?

DB: The people from the event are not accused to working together with smugglers. We are only accused abetting and helping illegal immigration. Our main defence anyway, would be, of course, that we didn't do anything wrong, that we always follow international laws and maritime laws. And I hope we have the chance to blame the real crimes, like illegal pushbacks or non-assistance or breaking international laws and international maritime laws and conventions. That is what the states do. And we want to use this process to highlight this a lot more.

CO: You know, that the Italian prosecutors say they have evidence of collaboration with the illegal smugglers and that they have photos, they say, of three small boats being returned to smugglers after the people were rescued from them. What do you say in your defence about those photos?

DB: I saw some pictures they had as evidence as for the seizure of the ship. And you see only one boat towing two other boats at sea. This picture could be taken at a North Sea, in the Pacific in the Indian Ocean everywhere because you cannot see where it is and where they go in which direction. And we had to luck. That group called Forensic Architecture found that this picture was cut out of a film of a clip. And in this clip, you can see how the waves behave and how the wind is on this day. And from that on the weather charts from the same day, they proved that the boat is not driving in the Southbound, but they go in that direction north, so away from Libya.

CO: So basically so basically you're saying that the photos are not what they claim them to be.

DB: Yes. And I'm sure they will not find any proof because we never did it. Nobody would work together with Libyan smugglers or traffickers because we know the people who were on the boats and how they talked about the smugglers and the traffickers. And I cannot imagine for myself to work together with a guy who I heard from that he tortured the people. And we heard so often that when the people don't dare to go on the boat at night, then they would get shot immediately at the beach. And that's not an option to work together with people like this.

CO: OK, but on that subject, I mean, these Libyan smugglers you refer to, these people, are they prey upon these desperate refugees. These refugees pay large amounts of money to get onto these unseaworthy rubber boats in these rafts. And do you think that, I know this isn't your purpose, but do you think that those smugglers rely on the fact that people like yourself, NGOs, will rescue these people they put out in these rafts and then they can take the rafts back and put more desperate people on them?

DB: No, [inaudible] I think the smugglers just don't care what happens to the people and they are fine with when they get rescued, but they are also finding other people as well. They just really completely don't care. I put the people on the boats and send them at sea, and from that moment on, they don't care if those people survive or not.

CO: Well, if you had not been there, you and the other NGOs who had these boats out, what do you think would be the consequences if you hadn't rescued people?

DB: It's a difficult question, and I know that the Iuventa was 40 missions in one year and different crews saved, this year about 14,000 people.

CO: And those people would have died had you not done that.

DB: It's always, of course, possible that there is another NGO, but often enough not so we're often in my missions, we had often situations where we were somewhere where no other NGO is and the weather was bad and there was a rubber boat. And in that moment, it's clear if we would have not find them, they would have been dead two hours later maximum. Now, there are nearly no NGO ship. It's essentially met and we hear often from boats which are seen by planes which were capsized and the people drowned.

CO: Dariush, we will be following this trial and the developments in your case. I appreciate you speaking with us tonight.

DB: Yeah, always. Again, if you have a follow up questions, contact me again.

CO: We will do that. Thank you so much.

DB: Bye.

CO: Bye.

CH: Dariush Beigui is the former captain of the impounded migrant rescue ship, the Iuventa, and one of more than 20 people charged by Italian prosecutors this week. He spoke to us from Hamburg, Germany. You can find more on this story on our Web page at CBC.ca/aih.

[Music: Calm Instrumental]

Canada Reads

CH: Given its irresistible emphasis on food, you can practically taste while you're reading, it's no wonder celebrity chef Roger Mooking chose to champion, Butter Honey Pig Bread, in next week's Canada Reads Debates. The novel is Francesca Ekwuyasi's debut. I mean, it's not just a culinary adventure. It's one that spans time, continents and cultures following a pair of twin sisters through Halifax, Montreal, London and Lagos. All this week we've been bringing you readings from the 2021 Canada Reads Contenders in anticipation of the battle of the books. And tonight, Ms. Ekwuyasi has our final instalment in this excerpt from Butter Honey Pig Bread. We learn why the twins' mother Kambirinachi has such mixed feelings about being alive.

FRANCESCA EKWUYASI: If you ask Kambirinachi, this is how she'll tell it. There was a spirit, a child whose reluctance to be born and subsequent boredom of life caused her to come and go between realms as she pleased succumbing to the messy ordeal of being birth, she will traverse to flesh realm only to carelessly, suddenly let go of living like it was an inconvenient load. Death is only a doorway, and her dying was always a simple event. She would merely stop breathing. It was her nature. The dark tales of malevolent spirit children Ogbanjes are twisted and untrue. It was never her intention to cause her mother misery. She was just restless. It was just the way. The time before her final birth in an attempt to make her stay. Her mother marked her with a red hot razorblade, just as the babalawo instructed three deep lines at the top of her neck below the hairline, smeared with a pungent brown paste that burned and burned all this so the Ogbanje would stay bound to its body. And if not, at the very least, she would recognise it should the child choose to be born again. The child died, of course, she returned again, and maybe she took pity on the woman. Or perhaps she was bored with a forcible rhythm of her existence. But this time she chose to stay, and the three horizontal welts on the back of her neck signify to the woman, her mother, that this was the same child. It might have been a coincidence. Perhaps the woman's mother in law, she had never liked the woman, found her haughty. Perhaps she marked the child in secret to torment her. Nevertheless, for Kambirinachi living was a tumultuous cascade between the unbearable misery of being in this alive body indefinitely and an utter intoxication with a substance, the very matter of life.

CH: Francesca Ekwuyasi, reading from her debut novel, Butter, Honey Pig Bread, restaurateur and recording artist Roger Mooking will champion the book on next week's Canada Reads. The battle of the book starts on Monday.

[Music: upbeat percussion and guitar]

Wisconsin Gray Wolves Cull

Guest: Kitty Block

CH: For years, the very existence of grey wolves in Wisconsin has been a source of conflict. Farmers who've lost animals to wolf attacks hate them. Wildlife officials worry about the wolves survival and want them protected. So when the state opened a week long hunt of the animals last month, advocates for the wolves were worried. And now they believe they had reason to be. Hunters killed more than 200 wolves in just three days, nearly double the limit. The state then abruptly halted the hunt. Kitty Block says the hunt never should have been allowed. She heads the Humane Society of the United States. We reached Ms. Block in Washington, D.C.

CO: Ms. Block, how is it possible that all these wolves were killed in just three days?

KITTY BLOCK: It really was a race to kill as many animals, many wolves as possible in the most horrible ways. And they accomplished it.

CO: Who were the people who killed them?

KB: These are people who applied for permits to hunt them for trophies. We're not talking about food. We're not talking about subsistence. We're talking about killing them for trophies.

CO: You say kill them in this horrible way. How were they killed?

KB: They were killed. The majority of them were killed with packs of dogs. So chased down with packs of dogs and then shot. And they were also killed with steel jaw leg hold traps, which are left out for animals to step into. And they get trapped in and they can suffer there for hours and sometimes days knowing their own limbs off. And the other method has been by neck snares, ones that are also laid out as a trap for animals to step into.

CO: These are the ways of killing animals is often done in order to make them good for taxidermy, right?

KB: Sometimes, yes. And sometimes just to get them as quickly and as many as you can.

CO: Was it legal?

KB: It is legal and it is barbaric. And that's why we have been focussed on trying to stop this. And that's why where this is happening in Wisconsin, the people don't want it. And the tribe that is there do not want this.

CO: These grey wolves were to be... They were until recently on the list of animals protected under your Endangered Species Act. So what happened?

KB: There was a rollback of protections, a number of them for wildlife during the last administration. And so the previous administration was quite favourable, showed lots of favour towards trophy hunters and their ilk. And so they came off the endangered species list and then leaving it up to the states to go ahead and do these hunts, which originally the Division of Natural Resources didn't want to go through with it. But there was an outside hunting group that put pressure, sued and won, and the hunt went through and they killed the animals and they actually took double what they were supposed to.

CO: OK, how many were they allowed to kill of these wolves?

KB: They were given a quota of 119 wolves. That was supposed to happen over a week. What happened was in under 60 hours, they more than doubled. They took something like two hundred and sixteen animals. And so they exceeded their quota, which is really bad. And secondly, they hunted during breeding season. And we do know that they killed a number of females. We don't know how many were pregnant at this point. So there could be more impacted actually than the two hundred and sixteen that were killed.

CO: Right, it was supposed to go on for a week. But after the 60 hours, they just shut it down, right?

KB: That's right. They shut it down because of the alarming rate. And keep in mind that they were not reporting out the numbers that were killed for 24 hours. So this was not real time, you know, so they did not know how many were actually being killed and how fast until 24 hours later.

CO: This hunt was allowed because of changes that the Trump administration made. When was the last time that a Greywolf hunt was allowed?

KB: And there is a long history of Greywolf hunting and then protections. But the last three times that hunting, where the animals came off the endangered species list and they were hunted in Wisconsin, they exceeded their quota every single time.

CO: What is the science saying about how endangered the grey wolf is?

KB: The decisions were made without sound science, and so we've been challenging it on those grounds. And the Department of Natural Resources in Wisconsin realised that they didn't want to have this hunt in February. They wanted to delay it and could consider a hunt in November when they had more science based information. But they lost that lawsuit. And so we don't believe this was done on sound science. This was really done by, as we know, outside pressure from a hunting group. Who wanted to kill the animals and wanted to kill them now and again, we don't know how many they actually have potentially killed or prevented ones from being born. And we also don't know if they were pups that were already born. And when the female was killed, they obviously died, too.

CO: Why the rush? Why did they want to do this hunt in February and not November? Is it because possibly that they suspect that the Biden administration will put the grey wolves back on the list?

KB: All we can understand is that they push forward with a hunt. When Wisconsin citizens didn't want it, the majority didn't want it, and neither did the tribe on it. It's hard to understand why they've rushed this forward. It's anyone's guess why they did this.

CO: When you say people in Wisconsin didn't want it. What about the farmers who, the ranchers who are often the ones who are cited as a reason why wolves should be culled?

KB: Yes, you're right. There are those who keep livestock and other animals have made an argument that that's why they need to be killed. But if you look down, you break down the numbers. That's not what's killing them. A large... The largest part of it is due to illness or other things or weather, it's not these wolves.

CO: So how precarious is the grey wolf population in Wisconsin? I guess, and overall in the U.S. What signs are you relying on for believing it should be put back on the endangered species list?

KB: For right now, the estimate is around a thousand grey wolves in Wisconsin, you know, give or take, and the other grey wolves that are in the areas, the numbers are varying. But the bottom line is the decision to take them off during the past administration was not based on science. We are working with the new administration to put them back on because what happened in Wisconsin can now roll out in the other states and that would be a disaster for these animals.

CO: Ms. Block, we will leave it there. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

KB: Thank you so much.

CH: Kitty Block is the president of the Humane Society of the United States. She's hoping the grey wolf will be put back on the endangered species list. We reached her in Washington, D.C.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

Reading jail art

[Sound Clip - Oscar Wilde quote]

CH: That was Oscar Wilde or his words anyway, as read by actor Rupert Everett.

VOICE: I don't feel the need to go to a gallery to make my art feel legitimate, the worth of your work is not about the money and I don't paint for anybody else. I don't paint for critics.

CH: That was Banksy or someone pretending to be Banksy anyway for a 1995 interview.

BOB ROSS: Now then let's decide. Maybe there's a happy tree. Evergreen tree. He lives right there. Start with just touching the canvas.

CH: And that was Bob Ross, famously known for painting Happy Little Trees, being very much himself. Until this week those three names didn't come up in the same conversation ever. But on Monday, a mural suddenly showed up on the side of Reading jail, a painting of a prisoner escaping over the wall of the jail, which closed in 2014. Immediately, people wondered if it was the work of the secretive street artist known as Banksy. Also, immediately, people wondered if it was a subtle tribute to Oscar Wilde, who wrote The Ballad of Reading Jail while imprisoned there for being gay in the late 19th century. Those wanderers didn't have to wonder long. Yesterday, Banksy posted a video to Instagram, which is where Bob Ross comes in. The video features shots from his soothing program, The Joy of Painting, intercut with footage of Banksy stencilling and spray painting on the wall of the old Reading jail.

BOB ROSS: [Sound Clip: The Joy of Painting]

CH: It seems like maybe Banksy supports a plan to preserve the jail and turn it into an arts complex, and now that we know the mural, which he calls Create Escape, is his work, it'll certainly be harder to tear it down. So there you go. Banksy, Bob Ross and Oscar Wilde teaming up for the first time, forming, to paraphrase Mr. Ross, a happy little trio.

[Music: Soft guitar instrumental]

Walter Gretzky Tribute

CH: Those of us who felt the joy of watching the young Wayne Gretzky play owe a debt to his father, Walter. Walter Gretzky didn't just build the backyard rink outside their Brampton, Ontario, home that sent number 99 on his way. He was, as the Great One, put it in a statement today, quote, "The reason I fell in love with the game of hockey". Those words followed the announcement that Walter Gretzky had died. He was 82 and had lived with Parkinson's for some time. In 1984, CBC Radio's Peter Gzowski interviewed Walter Gretzky about raising the greatest player anyone had ever seen and how he dealt with other parents who didn't like watching Wayne get so much of the glory and the ice time.

WALTER GRETZKY: Well, at first I was always bitter about it. I was very bitter because, you know, Wayne was their first child and I hadn't been involved in any of this before as a family man like family of my own. But later on, I really felt sorry for these people because I knew what it was like to just see my boy out there and just to be near him and, you know, enjoy that I have a family on my own. I always felt that the people that were bitter against Wayne or anyone like Wayne, they really missed out on life because we tend to take so much for granted in life. If we're healthy, we're breathing. We don't think anything of it. We don't realise that, you know, five minutes from now we may not be. And there are less fortunate people than us.

PETER GZOWSKI: Are you still friends with the parents or are you friends again with the parents who would complain about his extra ice time?

WG: Well, I'm a little different than Phyllis. I can forgive, but I don't forget. Phyllis, she doesn't do either.

PG: She's still mad at those people.

WG: She won't even talk to them.

PG: What about Walter Gretzky? How's it? I mean, are there times when you want to point out that you're a very good telephone machine repairman and that you have another life other than siring the world's greatest hockey player?

WG: Well, actually, for me to go to work, it's a relief at times because I get away from the mail and phone calls and various requests. We have people come to our place at dinnertime and any time in the afternoon and in the evenings, either want souvenirs, pictures or books to be signed. It's nice to get away from that.

PG: What does Wayne say about the fact that you smoke?

WG: Well, he sure doesn't like it. He'll butt the first cigarette he sees sitting there.

PG: So he doesn't run your life yet, does he?

WG: I always tell them, don't do as I do. Do as I say.

PG: They're going to win the Stanley Cup?

WG: This year?

PG: Yeah.

WG: Oh, for sure. For sure.

PG: You're going to be there?

WG: I'll be there again.

PG: Yeah. Walter, it's good to see you.

WG: My pleasure.

CH: That was Walter Gretzky speaking with Peter Gzowski on CBC Radio's Morning Side in 1984. Wayne Gretzky announced his father's death today. Walter Gretzky was 82.

[Music: Electronic music]

Part 3: Great apes at the San Diego Zoo have received their COVID-19 vaccines

Primate Vaccines

Guest: Nadine Lamberski

CH: It may look like they're wearing sweaters, but actually they have no sleeves to roll up. Great apes at the San Diego Zoo are the first non-human primates to get vaccinated for the coronavirus. The vaccine hasn't been tested on apes, but despite the unknowns, the zoo decided it was worth the risk. Nadine Lamberski is a conservation and wildlife health officer at the zoo. We reached her in San Diego.

CO: Dr. Lamberski, which of the Apes have you vaccinated at the zoo so far?

NADINE LAMBERSKI: we have vaccinated four out of five of our orangutans and five out of eight of our bonobos have been fully vaccinated with two doses of the vaccine.

CO: And do they cooperate with you giving them vaccines?

NL: Yes. Yes. All the animals have voluntarily accepted the injection in their shoulder.

CO: Well, they could teach a few things to humans about how to cooperate with this, couldn't they?

NL: Yes. Yes.

CO: And now why are they so cooperative?

NL: The animals in our care have a very close relationship with the wildlife care specialists that take care of them. And they're used to working closely with them and sitting still and allowing the care specialist to do a visual exam each day to make sure that their eyes are bright, that their gums are pink and moist, and they checked their teeth. So they're used to essentially being trained to sit still and have people do a visual examination.

CO: I hope they get a reward after these shots.

NL: Yes, they get some juice that they're very fond of.

CO: Now, why is it necessary to inoculate the apes?

NL: We decided to vaccinate our great apes in January when we were experiencing a sars-covi-2 disease in our gorilla troop at the Safari Park. So we have a troop of eight that were exposed to the virus from an employee. And those animals had a range of clinical signs from mild, to moderate, to severe in our silverback. And so in order to provide the best possible care for our apes at the San Diego Zoo, which is another facility that that we manage, we decided to go ahead and vaccinate at that time in January, there were several strains of covid-19 circulating in our community, including the UK strain the B-117... Of the B-117 lineage and also the B-1429 strain, which was a strain that originated in the Bay Area of California. And both of those strains seem to be more infectious than other strains in the community. So we were very concerned that our animals were at risk of becoming infected.

CO: Are they just at risk as humans are, or do they have the same vulnerability to this virus?

NL: We assume so. Great apes are very closely related to humans and they already share many, many diseases such as influenza, RSV virus. They're very susceptible to other viruses that cause colds and flu. They're susceptible to measles. So we know, we know from previous experience that the great apes are very susceptible to the same respiratory pathogens that humans are susceptible to.

CO: Are they getting the same vaccine as humans are?

NL: It's similar, but no, it's not the exact same vaccine. This is a vaccine that's made for animals only. It's not available for people.

CO: And we know that the ones for people have been tested. There have been trials with thousands, if not tens of thousands of people. It's been thoroughly examined. Have you had the same kinds of testing for the vaccine that you're using on the primates?

NL: The vaccine has been tested in animals prior to us contacting the company and discussing the potential for using it in gorillas. Zoo veterinarians often use vaccines that are made for one species of animals on another species of animals, because the testing is rarely, if ever done on zoo animals. You know, it's just not... It's just not practical to make a vaccine specific for zoo animals. But our animals are precious. These are endangered species. And we really wanted to do all that we could to provide them with the best possible care.

CO: But this vaccine that you're using was tested on dogs and cats.

NL: Yes, it was. As well as minks.

CO: But you're confident that it will be effective for your animals?

NL: Yes, it uses the spiked protein similar to what's in the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. And that protein was also tested on rhesus macaques, which is of course, in non-human primates, and so we felt comfortable that this vaccine would be safe for our great apes.

CO: What about the other animals in your zoo?

NL: They have not yet received any vaccinations for the sars-covi-2 virus. We received only a very small amount of vaccine, a total of twenty seven doses or enough for 13 animals. So we were you know, we have many, many more species that could be susceptible to the virus that did not receive the vaccine. There may be additional vaccines available from the company in the spring and then we would consider potentially vaccinating more animals at that time.

CO: But by the spring or the summer, perhaps the San Diego Zoo, It's a major attraction in California. Are you at all worried when the public visits that they might bring the virus into your animal population?

NL: We take a lot of precautions to make sure that our animals are safe and that our guests are safe and the public does not have close contact with any of the animals in our care. They're kept there socially distant, if you will. And the public is also asked to wear face coverings. So, no, I'm not concerned.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. Dr. Lamberski. Thank you.

NL: OK, thank you very much.

CO: Bye bye.

NL: Bye bye.

CH: Nadine Lamberski is a conservation and wildlife health officer at the San Diego Zoo. The zoo has vaccinated several of its primates for the coronavirus. We reached Ms. Lamberski in San Diego. And you can read more on the story on our webpage at CBC.ca/aih.

[Music: Electronic instrumental]

Ideas tonight’s promo

CH: Tonight on Ideas: a provocative case for the abolition of property. Growing up in a post slavery society where black people once were property, Rinaldo Walcott says he learnt early on that, quote, "property was a problem for black people." He argues that private property is tied to both inequality and police violence, and his concerns crystallised after the death of George Floyd.

RINALDO WALCOTT: Here is this man so publicly killed for all of us to see as we were sitting in our homes during a global pandemic and for allegedly, for allegedly passing a fake 20 dollar bill. It really crystallised for me this relationship between both the sense that black people and black bodies are disposable, but also this really powerful idea that to transgress someone else's property brings with it, this kind of tremendous form of violence, this tremendous form of prohibition, and that prohibition can be such that you lose your life for it. You know, property is not just material. It is also a set of ideas, a set of ideas that shape our social realities. And those who are, who are deemed to hold property also are deemed to hold a certain kind of authority over those who don't have it. And often the police is deployed as that authority. And we kind of just witnessed that in the 11 minutes that people who were able to watch that video from beginning to end, we witnessed that 11 minutes all of those ideas coming together in the death of one man.

CH: How private property shapes our world today and how it could be reimagined. That's tonight on Ideas right after As It Happens.

[Music: echoing bell sounds]

David Schindler Obit

CH: If there was a Nobel prize for ecology, he would have won it. That's what Mark Boyce said today in tribute to his fellow ecology professor friend and fishing companion, David Schindler. David Schindler died yesterday. He was 80 years old and he spent more than 50 of those years protecting Canada's freshwater systems from industrial harm. His work earned him numerous awards as well as the Order of Canada. He was born in Fargo, North Dakota. And when he came to Canada in the late 1960s, he co-founded The Experimental Lakes Area in Kenora, Ontario. It's a research station that has influenced public policy on water management around the world. In 1989, David Schindler became an ecology professor at the University of Alberta. Decades later, his research into the pollution of Alberta's oil sands helped push Stephen Harper's government to announce a joint plan between the federal and Alberta governments for an oil sands monitoring program. Carol spoke with David Schindler when the Joint Government Plan was announced in February 2012. Here's part of their conversation.

CO: Professor Schindler, you were quite responsible for getting this monitoring plan in place. Are you satisfied with what you heard today?

DAVID SCHINDLER: I'm satisfied with the science part, it’s a very good science plan. And if they're given the money and the staff capacity to execute it, we should have a pretty good idea within a couple of years of the real state of the river. I and I think I can speak for most of the people who've been involved in the panels. I'm not happy that this is currently to report to two assistant deputy ministers. And we've told the ministers today, and I think they've heard us and have a promise to do something about it, that the governance of this really needs to be independent. I think people are mistrustful because they have heard for too long that there were no contaminants going into the river and nothing could be wrong with the river and on and on. And I don't think there's a lot of trust left, particularly amongst Aboriginal people and others in the downstream part of the basin.

CO: If it's not to be an independent panel? What do you think might go wrong if you don't have that?

DS: Well, I think the suspicion would be that either the message is filtered or that the program is cut or lowballed without anybody noticing. Which is really what's gone on for almost 20 years now, there have been successive cuts to both departments. Staff has been lost, money has been lost, and the healthy program that was there in the late 70s has just sort of slowly died away to where it is no longer doing the job.

CO: Just finally, the situation. You mentioned Aboriginal people and consultation. The plan is that the Aboriginal groups will be consulted later. Is that a problem in your view?

DS: I think that's a huge problem. They've always been told that and we now see them painted into a corner where lands are being leased that we're guaranteed to them under treaty 8. I think they have to be in on the governance of this whole system. And again, we have a model in the 90s with the Northern River Basin study where we had Aboriginal representation both on the main governance board and on the science advisory panel. And it was not a hindrance. It was a help.

CH: That was Carol speaking with David Schindler in February 2012. He was a world renowned conservation scientist and an ecology professor at the University of Alberta. Dr. Shindler died yesterday. He was 80.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

8 Year old Fortnite Pro

Guests: Joseph and Gigi Deen

CH: Eight seems a little young to be parachuted on to an island to fight to the death against dozens of strangers, but Joseph Deen excels at it, and now he's the envy of a lot of Fortnite players, and not just the ones his own age. Joseph is a master of the online battle game, and at eight years old, he has just become the youngest professional Fortnite player. And like an NHL team locking up a young star, the eSports outfit Team 33 recently signed him with a 33,000 dollar U.S. bonus. We reached Joseph and his mother, Gigi, in Queensland, Australia.

CO: Joseph, how does it feel being the youngest professional Fortnite player?

JOSEPH DEEN: It feels amazing and a really, really good way.

CO: Were you surprised to learn that you had gained this success?

JD: I've been wanting to be a professional gamer since I started gaming.

CO: Which is when?

JD: I think when I was about like five or four.

CO: And you're eight years old now?

JD: Yeah.

CO: So half your life?

JD: Yeah.

CO: So you are at this point, are you the youngest player in a Fortnite?

JD: Yes.

CO: Joe, so I'll talk to your mom for a moment. Gigi, how did you feel when you got the call about Joseph's, this offer to become a pro?

GIGI DEEN: Well, I didn't realise how good he was. I thought it was more of a little faze he was going through, you know, just that he would always say, mom, mom, look what I did! I can edit. I can do this. I can do that. I didn't understand the game, of course, but, you know, I'd watch him play, but I didn't know he was that good at it. And he kept saying, mom, I won. I won a royal. I won a royal. And I'm like, I don't even know what that means. But he was winning. He kept winning all these players. So then then it all just led from that, actually.

CO: Joseph, how are you discovered? How did they find you and give you this distinction?

JD: They were playing with me on the game and they thought I was really good. So they started scouting me.

CO: Gigi, how did you feel when they started scouting him?

GD: It was good. They spoke to me on the, you know, the Discord and we had conversations and then he started playing against their players and, you know, it just led from that, basically. So we all became to know each other. And then one day they said to me, hey, look, he's so special and we need to, like, reward him for this, you know?

CO: But Joseph because you're eight, are you old enough to play in tournaments?

JD: No, I'm not old enough.

CO: So what can you actually do?

JD: I play against the other players and I like practise and train.

CO: When will you be able to play in a tournament?

JD: When I'm thirteen.

CO: What is it you love about this game, Fortnite?

JD: Pretty much just, like everything about it. The one thing I'm really good at is like free building and like 1v1's.

CO: You want to tell people what that means?

JD: So 1v1's are basically like when you go against one other player.

CO: What do you think makes you such a good player?

JD: So I first started playing piano and I think that probably helped me with keyboard and mouse.

CO: Really OK.

JD: Things in my like fingers. I used to like move around a lot on a piano.

CO: Would you encourage other young kids who want to play Fortnite or play any game that they should keep up with their piano lessons?

JD: It depends on what game it is. It depends.

CO: Gigi, do you worry about.... I mean, other parents are trying to keep their kids from playing too much. Do you worry about that?

GD: No, he doesn't actually play too much. He has a normal schedule, goes to... well Zoom at the moment. For the last 12 months it's been Zoom.

CO: And are you comfortable with this move he's made into becoming a pro?

GD: You know what? I always believe children should follow their dreams. If it's something that he is good at and he loves it, it's fine. If at any stage he doesn't love it anymore and he hates it or doesn't want to do it anymore. It's done.

CO: Joseph, I know you haven't seen much of your friends because of this covid thing, but what do your friends think of this, your success in Fortnite?

JD: They can't believe it. And they're like super proud of me and they are like amazed.

CO: So they're proud of you, but they're not, they're not in your league, I guess.

JD: No, they're not in my league.

CO: What would you say to other kids who might be listening to this, who want to play? What advice would you give them?

JD: I would say follow your dreams and follow what you love. Watch a bunch of videos, YouTube videos about how to get better.

CO: Is that what you did? Yeah, sort of.

GD: Are you going to do a YouTube where you can teach kids?

JD: Yeah. One day.

CO: Joseph, congratulations to you and Gigi and Joseph, thank you both.

GD: Thank you so much.

JD: Thanks. Bye.

GD: Bye.

CO: Bye

CH: Joseph Deen is the world's youngest pro Fortnite gamer. We reached him and his mother, Gigi Deen, in Queensland, Australia.

[Music: Upbeat guitar music]

CBC North outgoing Host

CH: Madeleine Allakariallak, is tired. 24 years after she first started working at CBC North, the host of Canada's Only Inuktitut supper hour news program is leaving the public broadcaster. Speaking with her long time colleague Salome Awa, she reflected on what has changed in that time and what hasn't. And she made it clear that working for a show with just three Inuktitut speaking staff and English speaking colleagues who blind edit their work is a job she sees as vital, but one that has taken its toll.

MADELEINE ALLAKARIALLAK: It's a tough job. It's a tough job because we're carrying so much weight. I mean, non-Inuit when they wake up in the morning, have Twitter, Facebook, everything on social media, all the News of the World already ready. Even CBC News Network, they're already on it. We have, including the commercials, maybe a 20 minute span on television, the only Inuktitut supper hour news program in all of Canada, 20 minutes. Come on. We're in Inuit country if you're going to be our allies and help support and encourage language revitalisation and the strength of our Inuit culture, language being the big aspect of it, give us more time. We provide so much programming with very little resources and very little people, like a small part of employees doing all these kinds of things, but also expect it to work in the English language. So I find that inequality offensive and exhausting. And I hope that not just at CBC in anywhere that you work, you're working in Inuit Nunangat. That means Inuit live here, the population and the majority of people living here are Inuit. It's common sense to make room and to think, who are you working for? Who are you representing? Who are you going to be an ally to? How do you want to help the growth of our communities for the better? That's the push that we've been making here at CBC North is just to encourage as many times as we can to management. And you and I have gone up to many levels to say we need help, we need resources, we need more Inuit, we need money, help. But I'm looking at new opportunities to work for an Inuit owned company who's looking for more Inuit. And I just need to revive that creativity I once held when I first started here in 1997.

CH: Madeleine Allakariallak, as the outgoing host of CBC North's Inuktitut language program Igalaaq. She first joined the CBC in 1997 and is leaving this week for a private sector job.

[Music: upbeat pop]

Cuttlefish research

CH: Fifty years ago, when Stanford researchers wanted to test children's self-control, they used marshmallows, they offered the kids a reward, but told them they would double it if they could resist eating the marshmallow in front of them for 15 minutes. Well, in new research, the marshmallows have been swapped for live grass shrimp, and the children have been swabbed for juvenile cuttlefish, who we're told somehow, that if they could resist a raw chunk of king prawn, they'd be handsomely rewarded. The ability to delay gratification is not typically associated with these marine molluscs who look a bit like an octopus has been attached to a fish where the head should be. But wait for it. Nope, that's it. They waited for it or some of them did anyway. Others just kept squirting the researcher with their siphons until they got fed. But those who were patient managed to wait up to 130 seconds, demonstrating a level of self-control comparable to that of chimpanzees, crows, parrots and other animals who don't have blue blood, three hearts and a doughnut shaped brain proving once and for all that cuttlefish may have suckers, but they aren't suckers.

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March 5, 2021 Episode Transcript

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