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The AIH Transcript for February 1, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Military mights. A former political prisoner in Myanmar, says he wasn't surprised by today's coup d'état, but he is concerned about what the army could do next.

CH: Closing ranks. Canadian Ambassador Bob Rae was already investigating claims of genocide by Myanmar's army against the Rohingya minority. Now he says the international community must come together to respond to the coup.

CO: Runway modelling. Canada's transport minister says he understands the concerns about his government's new flight restrictions, but with the risk that travellers might spread new mutant strains of covid, he had no choice.

CH: Fisheye lens. Scientists in California discovered that the eye of a freshwater Chinook is like a tiny onion with lots of layers and that each one tells a story about the salmon's life.

CO: One track mind. A four year old in Wales discovers what looks like a small dinosaur footprint, only to learn that it really is a small dinosaur footprint and a pretty big find to boot.

CH: And if you pick them, do they not bleat? A British farm has made a small fortune by charging people to select one of several talkative goats to join their video calls. And the kids say the darndest things. As It Happens. The Monday edition, radio that suggests you call now because all goat things must come to an end.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Myanmar coup

Myanmar coup

Guest: Khin Zaw Win

CH: The military in Myanmar has always had considerable influence over how the country is run, that influence is now impossible to ignore. After launching a coup d'etat the military detained Aung San Suu Kyi, Myanmar's civilian leader. Her party, the National League for Democracy, won an overwhelming victory in last November's election, a vote the military has now claimed was rife with voter fraud. Khin Zaw Win runs the Tampadipa Institute, a policy think tank in Yangon. He spent 11 years behind bars as a political prisoner in Myanmar, and he had been warning of a possible coup by the military for weeks. We reached him in Yangon.

CO: Win you have warned that a coup like this could happen in Myanmar, how did you feel when you woke up this morning and saw that it had actually taken place?

KHIN ZAW WIN: Well, of course, there's still, surprise left. You know, I got up very early this morning at 5:00 a.m. and it was already on the Facebook news. You know, I knew that was going to happen. I was giving interviews and giving briefings to diplomats. And when they asked me, I said a coup is quite likely because I've been following it regularly and persistently for four or five months.

CO: Why did you think it was inevitable that this coup would take place?

KHIN ZAW WIN: They've been having meetings late into the night. The civil government and the military. There is no outcome and they are not productive. And so, I said, that's the only inevitable result. The thing is that we have let's say, four coups in Myanmar's independent history over 70 years. But this is the first time they've really been able to thrash it out before the coup itself. You know, and the military spokesman has said he can't rule out the possibility of a coup and it had a big public reaction against it. And so for people who are concerned, know the military and the, say, the former NLG government, well, they knew that it would happen.

CO: The NLD, the National League for Democracy, this is the party of Aung San Suu Kyi. Do you have any idea where Aung San Suu Kyi and her people around her, where they are right now?

KHIN ZAW WIN: They are kept separately in different army camps. It will be an empty house. So it could be in the officer's mess.

CO: And what do you think will happen to her?

KHIN ZAW WIN: I'm afraid this is the end of the line for her, because this morning they've already constitutionally handed over power to the military chief and they declared an emergency of one year. And near the end of that time period, there will be another election. There's a possibility that Aung San Suu Kyi will doggedly try and run again. But for the moment, she is out of action for 12 months.

CO: But there was great expectation that Aung San Suu Kyi would change things in the country, that she would defend minorities and she would stand up to the military. That didn't happen. She became the military's biggest defender and she rejected accusations of the campaign against Rohingya and other minorities. So why does the military regard her as a threat?

KHIN ZAW WIN: Well, she was a big disappointment to many of the Democrats. But in the end, she won this election in November by a landslide and the military did not want to have her around anymore. Yes, she's been very useful to them. They still have to face the International Court of Justice. But I think this time they just couldn't co-exist anymore.

CO: I just want to ask you about some of the language that you're using about having her around anymore. So politically, you believe that she's finished. Is she in danger? Is she physically in danger?

KHIN ZAW WIN: No, she's not. Nobody is in physical danger. I don't think there are any demonstrators who will come out onto the streets where they might get hurt. You know, shot. It's a very complex political story, you know? Well, it just couldn't exist anymore. And the signs were there coming up last year. And she did not heed them. She wouldn't listen. In fact, the very important national defence and Security Council, 11 members, civilian and military in the five year term, Aung San Suu Kyi did not convene a single meeting of that body. We have a civil war still running and the military has decided to go it alone and will do it's darndest to get things done or started and there will be a new government.

CO: So you're saying that Aung San Suu Kyi was a disappointment to the military who wanted her to be different? She's been a disappointment to the democracy movement in Myanmar. And yet she won a landslide. And so what does that say about her popularity in the country?

KHIN ZAW WIN: It's a big expression of populism in many countries in the world who turn to populism and to the right wing. And she did that.

CO: The disappointment is also in the international community and Aung San Suu Kyi, they feel this is her failure to deal with the Rohingya crisis. Do you anticipate any support from the international community in the midst of this military coup?

KHIN ZAW WIN: Yes, two days ago, I had to give a briefing to five Anglophone countries, including Canada, and I said that there is a likelihood of a coup and people were very upset. And the next day they came out with the joint statements. So up to now, the international community is still on the side of the democracy movement. You must remember that Aung San Suu Kyi is an important figure of a big party. But there is more to the democracy movement than the NLD alone.

CO: I know it's very late and you've had a long day. I appreciate that you would find time for us. Thank you.

KHIN ZAW WIN: My pleasure. My pleasure. We will go on. Nobody likes the idea of a military coup. What people are afraid of the most is a return to military rule. We've had such bad experiences, but this time we just have to tolerate another 12 months of it.

CO: All right. We'll be watching. Thank you.

KHIN ZAW WIN: Nice talking to you.

CO: You too.

CH: Khin Zaw Win runs the Tampadipa Institute. He's also a former political prisoner in Myanmar. We reached him in Yangon.

Myanmar: Bob Rae

Guest: Bob Rae

CH: Today's military coup and the arrest of Aung San Suu Kyi is one more step down in a fall from grace for the leader. For years, she was seen as a champion of human rights in Myanmar. In 2015, her party, the National League for Democracy, won a landslide victory. But in recent years, she's faced international censure for defending the army and waging a brutal campaign against the Rohingya ethnic minority, Bob Rae, is Canada's former special envoy on the Rohingya humanitarian crisis. He's now Canada's ambassador to the UN. We reached him in New York City.

CO: Ambassador Rae, we just spoke with a former political prisoner from Myanmar, Khin Zaw Win, who told us that he's been warning diplomats for months about this possible military coup in Myanmar. Did today's events come as a surprise to you?

BOB RAE: I wouldn't say I was shocked because the constitution of the country gives so much power to the military and they see themselves so much as basically the owners and controllers of the country, that in my view, it's always a possibility, you know, dealing with the government. You dealt with the civilian government, Aung San Suu Kyi and her ministers, and then you dealt with the army who basically ran the country. They ran the ministry of the Interior, the defence, the border areas and so on. So, you know, anybody dealing with the government of Myanmar would know that if the military was really unhappy, they would try to come back.

CO: And why do you think the military got so unhappy with Aung San Suu Kyi? She was supporting them in many of their initiatives she did not oppose, in fact, supported the military in its treatment of the Rohingya. She's been behind them. So what is it, do you think that actually triggered this decision?

BR: She won an election with a bigger majority and she has an agenda. And her agenda domestically is to change the Constitution, to allow her to run for president because she's disqualified from doing that now because she has children with another passport. She clearly was not happy with being put in the public position of having to defend the army around the world in the International Court of Justice and elsewhere, and at the same time not have the ability to basically control them. And this really is the nut of the issues between her and the army.

CO: And so where do you think the Army wants to now take the country? What is now the direction the military wants Myanmar to go in?

BR: They want to make sure that the public can see how they run things because they're convinced they can run better than the government. I think as much as possible, they want to discredit the prime minister in every way they can. And I think they want to put themselves in the position where they might be able to win an election. And if they can't win it, honestly, they'll run the election in such a way that they win.

CO: Do you think, though, that these past five years of having a civilian government, of having a taste of democracy in Myanmar, do you think that they can just step back into a military dictatorship again, or do you think that the public has changed?

BR: Well, I think the public has changed. Thomas Jefferson was right when he said that, you know, democracy is infectious. I think it is infectious. Once people get a sense of that they don't want to give it up, we're not at the end of anything, we are in the middle of something. And there's a lot of things that can happen. I mean, I don't believe that the people of Myanmar are going to sit back and just accept a return to dictatorship. I don't believe that.

CO: When you say that it's just not the end of what's going on. But it seems to be from our last guest, Khin Zaw Win, that it is the end of the line politically for Aung San Suu Kyi that the military has no interest in propping her up anymore. And he says that the democracy movement in Myanmar has lost faith in her, it is very disappointing in her failure to do what she said she would do to further human rights, to protect minorities. What future do you see? Does she still have a role in Myanmar?

BR: I don't know. It's not for me to say. There's a lot of realities which the military has to face up to the extent of now putting themselves in the driver's seat. There's going to be even more scrutiny on their leadership, on their corruption. I mean, the military is not just military. It runs things, it owns things. It has its tentacles in every part of the country. The power of the democracy movement has been its determination to change this. And I think it's fair to say that in the first five years, Aung San Suu Kyi discovered that she couldn't change it because the Constitution didn't allow her to change it.

CO: Do you think that the military will allow a democracy movement to emerge from these ashes?

BR: I don't give any credibility to what they've said. They've never apologised to their people for the terrible things that have happened and the injustices that have been done. And eventually, I believe they will be held accountable by their own people and they'll be held accountable by the forces of justice. They can't stop all these wheels and all these things are going to go on.

CO: And what should Canada's role be in accelerating that? I mean, what do you think Canada should do and say at this point?

BR: Well, I think what we're saying is that a coup d'etat is, a coup d'état, it's not acceptable. Yes, Aung San Suu Kyi has been elected as the leader of their parliament. She should be allowed to govern their country properly based on any reasonable sense of what a constitutional democracy is all about. That doesn't mean we agree with her or we like the way in which she treated the Rohingya and other minorities, that none of that is good. What we're saying is that the military is much more frankly, much more dangerous. It's the military who were responsible for the war against the Rohingya driving them out of the country. There's still several hundred thousand Rohingya that are left very vulnerable to the army. There are many other minority groups that are in conflict with the army. They're extremely vulnerable. There's no check on the army. I think kind of the first thing we have to do is work with others, because alone we can only do so much. And with the Biden administration, I think we have a better chance of finding some important allies.

CO: Just finally, you have championed the cause of the Rohingya refugees. You've heard their harrowing stories. You told us about what you have encountered with those people in exile. Is this worse for them? Does this bode badly for any possibility of those Rohingya Muslims returning home or being safe within the borders of Myanmar?

BR: Well, given that the army was responsible for building up so much hatred against the Rohingya, I think one has to be very, very concerned about their prospects, the reason that I'm not completely pessimistic is I don't believe that the situation is frozen in time and that everybody's going to go back to living in total repression under the general. So I think there'll be a much stronger global reaction and I think there'll be a stronger domestic reaction that we might think.

CO: We'll leave it there. And of course, we'll be following this story. Ambassador Rae, thank you.

BR: Thank you very much. Take good care.

CO: You too. Bye.

BR: Bye.

CH: Bob Rae is Canada's ambassador to the U.N. and Canada's former special envoy on the Rohingya crisis. We reached him in New York City.

[Music: Rock music]

Dinosaur footprint discovered

Guest: Lily and Richard Wilder

CH: Lily Wilder loves the outdoors, and she's naturally curious because nature is endlessly fascinating to her and because she's four years old. And thanks to her curiosity, archaeologists are now a step further in their understanding of dinosaurs because what began with Lily and her father having a nice walk on the beach ended in the discovery of a 200 million year old fossil. We reached Lily Wilder and her dad, Richard Wilder, in Cardiff, Wales.

CO: Hello, Richard, hello, Lily, how are you?

RICHARD WILDER: She's very excited.

CO: I am to. OK, Richard, can I start with you? How did all this unfold? How did you come to make this discovery?

RW: Well, we just went for a little walk on the beach, really not thinking anything special was going to happen and then Lily sees the fossil. And says daddy, "Look at this". It was almost too good to be true. How realistic it was. It was almost like someone had etched into the rock.

CO: And what was it?

RW: Was only obviously later on we found out, well, the dinosaur footprint.

CO: Lily, are you there? Can I speak with you?

LILY WILDER: Yeah.

CO: Hi, Lily. What did you find on the beach? Can you tell us?

LW: A dinosaur footprint!

CO: Wow. And what did you think when you saw that? Is that exciting?

LW: Yeah, my favourite is a T-rex.

CO: You have your T-rex with you?

RW: She used to be a little bit scared of them?

LW: I used to be scared of them and now I don't.

RW: Now she really likes them, don't you?

LW: Yeah.

CO: Because you found one of their footprints. How big do you think that dinosaur was the one who put that footprint there? Do you think it's a great big guy?

LW: It was small.

CO: And did it scare you when you saw that? That a dinosaur footprint was right there on the beach?

LW: No, I only like when they're toys.

CO: Do you have a toy dinosaur with you right now?

LW: Yeah, [starts repeating, stomp, stomp in a sing song voice]

CO: Is that your dinosaur stomping around, leaving footprints? Richard, I'll ask you a few more questions. You mentioned that it was so lifelike. Did you actually think maybe it was a prank? Because I've seen the picture. It's astonishingly clear, isn't it?

RW: Yeah. Yeah. I thought, you know, if it was real, then someone else would have seen it. But they reckon that maybe the rock has recently been rolled on the beach or something and been exposed. So. Yeah. So it's been well preserved anyway.

CO: And so Lily says it's a small dinosaur. What have you learnt as to what was the creature that actually made this footprint?

RW: They're not hundred percent sure, but it's something called the “Great Gradualists'' or something like that. And I've never heard of it before, but obviously it was round right at the beginning of the dinosaurs. So, yeah. So they were a lot smaller in those days, apparently. So we've been told.

CO: So the archaeologists are very excited about Lily's discovery. What have they told you?

RW: Well, just that really that I guess they'll do a lot more now. Now they've taken it away to the museum. They'll analyse it and try and match it with other things they've told us and try and give us a bit more information about it. So, yeah, there's not an awful lot we know about it other than that, really. I'm, sure, we'll find out more.

CO: But how does it compare with other discoveries they've made in Wales as far as dinosaurs?

BR: Well, apparently we didn't know this, but this beach is quite popular for finding dinosaur footprints, but nothing as good as this one and as clear as it, really? So it was quite an amazing find.

CO: But they asked you to sit on the news for a while, is that right?

RW: Yeah, because they say, we put it on the Facebook page to see if anyone recognised it or thought it was real. Yeah, then the architects in the museum got in touch and said, can you take it down because you don't want people guessing where it might be and things and, you know, maybe damaging it or trying to take it themselves. So, yeah, we had to wait until they could get permission to take it from the beach. So and now as soon as it's gone, then they released it to the press then and it's all gone crazy since.

CO: I think that T-Rex is going crazy in the background. [laughter] And so where, where is the rock now?

RW: I think it's at the museum, I think I'm not sure. [Lily talking in background] Obviously with lock down here and things. Yeah. I guess things are a little bit different than normal.

CO: Lily, are you going to go see your footprint in the museum one day, do you think? .

LW: Yeah.

RW: Yeah. And she's going to get a plaque next to it saying that she found it, apparently.

CO: Wow.

RW: So, that'll be exciting. And she'll take all the school friends with her.

CO: And Lily, will you keep looking for more dinosaur footprints, do you think?

LW: Yep. Yep.

RW: Yeah, we'll definitely be going back down. Won't we, looking for more.

CO: Oh, that's so exciting. It's great to talk to both of you, Lily and Richard, and to have that little cameo of the T-Rex was quite lovely too.

RW: Yes, she takes it everywhere now. Now, she's a massive dinosaur fan.

CO: All right, thanks to you both.

RW: Thanks very much.

CO: Bye, Lily.

LW: Bye bye.

CO: Bye bye.

CH: We reached four year old Lily Wilder and her father, Richard Wilder, in Cardiff, Wales, and to see some photos of their find, make tracks to our website, CBC.ca/AIH.

[Music: Funk music]

Zoom call with a goat

CH: We're stuck at home, we can't visit anyone, and no matter how much time we spend with the characters on Bridgton, they're not actually our friends, especially Anthony. So it makes sense that a service that really allows us to connect with a non-judgemental stranger would be a success, even if that strangers responses all sound like this:

[Goat bleating]

CH: I mean, at this stage, it's kind of soothing to me, and I'm not the only one who wants to have a one on one Zoom call with a goat to the surprise of Dot McCarthy. Ms. McCarthy runs Cronkshaw Fold Farm in Lancashire, England. When the pandemic hit, she lost all the income she'd made from hosting events. So as a joke, she suggested they start charging people to book a video call with a goat. Your choices include Lulu, renowned for her treacherous screech Elizabeth, who suffers from frequent hiccups, and Sebastian, who has a genuine interest in what you have to say, and soft velvety ears. Well, that silly joke has brought in serious revenue, Ms. McCarthy told the website, farming U.K., "We've had everyone from the European management team of Facebook, to NHS staff in need of a cheer up, to virtual church services". And she says her goat Zoom calls have brought in upwards of 50,000 pounds so far. So if you're bored or lonely or looking to unburden yourself to an impartial party, well, have we goat news for you.

[Music: Dance/techno].

Part 2: Canada mulls new travel restrictions to close land border loophole: Transport minister

Travel restrictions: Minister

Guest: Omar Alghabra

CH: The Trudeau government is warning would-be travellers that it is clamping down on flights. The airlines have already closed down their sun destination routes. By Wednesday, the remaining inbound flights will all be routed to either Montreal, Toronto, Calgary or Vancouver. Shortly after that, passengers will start to face a covid test on arrival, a mandatory three day 2000 dollar quarantine at a hotel and stiffer policing of the regular quarantine that follows that. The measures have some travellers feeling targeted and others worried they won't be able to make essential trips. Omar Alghabra is Canada's new transport minister. We reached him in Mississauga, Ontario.

CO: Mr. Alghabra, if you don't want people travelling unnecessarily, why not just come right out and ban foreign travel?

OMAR ALGHABRA: Carol, it's good to be with you. Look, we actually last year advised Canadians to avoid non-essential travel. We banned all foreigners from entering Canada. We required a 14 day quarantine. And earlier this year, we've also added another measure that requires all travellers to get tested for covid before boarding the plane on the way to Canada. And what we announced on Friday were additional layers, all guided by public health advice to promote public health, to protect against the spread of covid, particularly with the rising number of variants around the world. So we considered other options and there was no one perfect answer. So what we ended up doing is customising different layers where on the whole we end up with a solid plan.

CO: Right. Now, The Globe and Mail had an editorial about this, that this is what Canada has been doing all along. It introduces important restrictions that would be quite useful, but does them long after they should be in place. So why have you taken so long to do this?

OA: As I stated earlier, we've actually implemented some of the strictest measures from last year, from last March. [interrupted]

CO: Well, we're seeing what Australia, New Zealand is doing, I think that's what they're comparing with. Where Canada's a laggard when you compare to those countries and how successful those travel restrictions have been.

OA: Yeah, look, I realise that and Australia and New Zealand have their own unique set of circumstances, including the fact that they are geographically an island. We have our own circumstances. And in fact, if you see other countries around the world are following our lead, implementing similar measures that we've implemented months ago. So I understand and it's normal and healthy to always be pushing and questioning. We are guided by public health advice. We are guided by the developments, and we're grappling to make sure that we are constantly monitoring the public and safety of Canadians.

CO: Obviously, you're trying to stop those vacations from happening before the spring breaks begin. But what do you say to people who are going to those places for other reasons that they need to get there to take care of loved ones or for emergencies? What can you say to them?

OA: Look, we've been asking Canadians for the last few months to sacrifice and Canadians have stepped up. Canadians understand that we're going through a pandemic that happens once in a century and that we are all having to make sacrifices. We've asked Canadians to avoid nonessential travel and we reached a voluntary agreement with the airlines to suspend traffic to destinations where a majority of Canadians tend to go when they are going on vacation, especially during spring break and march break. Now, having said that, I realise there are the Canadians who are having to sacrifice and make adjustments because of these measures. And I regret that. I don't take any joy in imposing such measures. But as I said, we are guided by public health advice. We are protecting the health and safety of Canadians. And I think Canadians on the whole understand the necessity for these measures.

CO: How concerned is the government with the research that we're finding now about these new variants and how deadly they are?

OA: We're obviously very concerned about these variants and public health and Dr. Teresa Tam and the health experts are monitoring the spread of this variant very closely. This is precisely why we've added these new measures to prevent against the spread of these variants, but also to send a strong message to Canadians who are thinking about travelling for vacation or nonessential travel to delay that for now, we are in a pandemic. We have these variants. So we're encouraging all Canadians to avoid any international movement that is unnecessary.

CO: I understand Bill Blair is talking to President Biden's administration about potential further measures. What else should we be prepared for? What else are you considering?

OA: So that the new Biden administration has recently implemented new measures, by the way, following some of the measures that we had already in place, and now we are in discussions with them about potentially new measures that we can reciprocate. I'm not able to prejudge the outcome of that discussion, but I could tell you that both our administration and their administration are taking the new health measures very seriously and we're examining all options. And as you mentioned, my friend, Minister Blair, is the lead on that discussion.

CO: We're hearing stories. It is all anecdotal, but stories of people, Canadians who fly to U.S. border cities, rent cars, drive into Canada seems to be the best way to beat the system. So have you flagged the land border as an issue?

OA: Look, let me be very clear again, we're calling on all Canadians to cancel all nonessential travels, whether it's through land, whether it's through air. It is necessary for the well-being of our country. It's for a short time for the just coming few months. So we are pleading with all Canadians to cancel all non-essential travel. Now, I take your point about the land borders, and that is currently being examined and discussed with our friends in the U.S. And it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of land border crossers are essential travellers like truckers and rail workers. Having said that, we are in the middle of a discussion to adding, potentially more measures there.

CO: But if people consider that a way to sort of beat the system, then clearly there are a lot of people who don't think that these restrictions are for them, so just urging them to be good citizens may not be enough. What might you do to prevent those people from taking advantage of loopholes?

OA: You're right. And that's why we are currently examining other measures that will be hopefully announced soon.

CO: All right. We'll be watching. Minister Alghabra, thank you.

OA: Thank you, Carol.

CH: Omar Alghabra is Canada's transport minister. We reached him in Mississauga, Ontario.

[Music: On Hold music]

Vancouver makeshift penthouse nightclub

Guest: Sarah Kirby-Yung

CH: On Saturday night, a downtown Vancouver penthouse was transformed into a makeshift nightclub. There were menus, tables, point of sale terminals and cash tills, and there were people, nearly 100 people packed together, none of them wearing masks. Of course, none of that is allowed under British Columbia's current public health orders. So police shut it down, issued fines and arrested the owner of the condo. But Sarah Kirby-Yung isn't so sure that's going to harsh the vibe because this was the third party at that location in two weeks. The Vancouver city councillor spoke with the CBC about how this happened.

SARAH KIRBY-YUNG: Well, I understand that when the police attended on previous occasions, they had a doorman or someone acting as a doorman at the party who refused to let the police in. And, you know, so the police did their homework and they got a search warrant and went in and fined virtually everybody all, 77 people. And hauled, you know, the party holder away to jail. So I think that VPD are trying to work within the law and do their part. The question is that it feels like when everybody's in a boat trying to row in one direction and you're bailing, try to keep the water out. If you use that analogy for what we're going through with covid that somebody is trying to torpedo you from behind. So it's like a slap in the face or giving somebody the proverbial finger when everybody's trying to do their best to stay in that boat and follow the guidelines.

STEPHEN QUINN: Let's talk about the penalties issued here, because police say they handed out more than 17000 dollars in fines. And I guess you would consider that to be a lot if the fine was issued to a single person. But with that, that number, of course, represents about 230 dollars for each person in attendance. How much of a deterrent is that?

SARAH KIRBY-YUNG: I don't think it is a deterrent. And that's why I would favour seeing a higher fine, because if people have enough cash to draw up on what's presumably not a cheap night out and a ticket, the 230 dollars is not going to deter them. And I think to you think of the damage done to the nightclubs and the bars and all those businesses that have been shuttered, they can't operate. And this must just be a huge slap in the face for them.

SQ: Well, exactly. I mean, here we have people trying to abide by covid restrictions. And, you know, some, you know, somebody taking advantage of that by offering what other places can't offer right now.

SARAH KIRBY-YUNG: Exactly. That's right. And I think that's why it hits home for people. I'm getting emails all the time, a city council that people are pretty much at the end of their rope. They're feeling it. We're going to be really looking at two years out of our lives that covid has taken. By the time everybody gets the vaccine and we get back to some degree of normal this fall, which is really what the trajectory is looking like. And, you know, I get emails from people that say I left the house today for the first time to go to a store. My grandparents haven't seen their grandkids. I have an aunt who's 99 years old. Every year is precious, at that time, she can't hear very well. It's really difficult for me to communicate with her. So when I hear this, it just makes you angry.

CH: That was Vancouver City Councillor Sarah Kirby-Yung speaking with the CBC's Stephen Quinn on The Early Edition today about maskless partiers at a makeshift nightclub over the weekend.

[Music: Hava Nagila instrumental]

Isotope salmon eyes

Guest: Miranda Bell Tilcock

CH: Lately, scientists at the University of California have been staring deeply into the eyes of fish, not for romance, but for research. A new study they published last week reveals that we can learn a lot more about the lives of fish just by looking more closely at their eyeballs, by peeling them layer by layer. Miranda Bell Tilcock is the lead researcher on a study published in the journal, Methods in Ecology and Evolution. We reached her at home in Davis, California.

CO: Miranda, what can you tell about a salmon by looking into its eyes?

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: The fish eyes are actually this amazing diet journal that is located within a fish, it actually acts as a permanent chemical archive. And you can actually peel these layers off one by one that are in the lens and look at different points in time what this fish had been eating. And potentially, if you know enough about what the fish was eating and that chemical value that you have in the eye, you can actually know what habitat it was using at different points in this lifetime.

CO: When you look at this, is it just over a short period? Or is it over the lifetime, you can tell from when it's just a little guy?

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: You can do it throughout the entire lifetime, so each layer represents a different point of time in their life. You can go back in time and look at it when it was just a little baby salmon, in the river going out to the ocean and seeing what habitat it was using at that time in it's life.

CO: Now, of course, when you're saying peeling its eyeball, of course, this is not a living salmon. Right. How do you go about doing that?

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: It's like a little onion. And although it's like the world's tiniest onion. And so you take a pair of forceps underneath a microscope and the layers come together at this little line, this point called a suture. And you can actually start prying them apart at that little junction. And then that's where you have your layers and they actually start coming off like a little flower petals.

CO: I saw, I guess, a video that you must have made looking at this process under the scope and. I mean, whose hands were those? That was one steady hand that is peeling these little layers away.

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: Those were my hands. I was actually quite nervous making that video for some reason. It was my first time being recorded.

CO: Well, your hands. And so it's such a small thing. It's just one layer after another. And does each layer tell another part of the story?

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: Absolutely. And so that was a juvenile salmon eye that you saw in the video , you know, you can look at these different layers and you can look at what it was eating while it was out in the ocean, which can help us understand shifts that might be happening in the food web out in the ocean where climate change is occurring. And then you can also go back in time and see when it entered the ocean and what it was maybe in the estuary before going all the way out.

CO: That's very detailed. It's not just so you can tell from one year to the next, but you're talking about different processes of a year of of the span of very short periods of time that you're able to see what it's eating, when it's spawning, when it's in freshwater, when it's in the estuary. That's quite detailed, isn't it?

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: Yeah, I can see them at these different life stages and see what they're actually eating. And that was one thing that we did in this paper was we were looking at... We'd also look at an adult salmon to see what habitats it had been using when it was a juvenile. And you're able to get a fairly fine tuned picture of what they were doing, because each lens represents, you know, anywhere between 30 and 50 days. The exact time is still unknown of how long it takes to grow one of these layers. But we have this rough estimate that we can actually make based on how many layers it has and how old the fishes.

CO: Are you then able to compare salmon from different habitats? Let's say just not just from one place or another, but the difference between farmed salmon and fresh water salmon? Can you see the difference between the different habitats that they have? Is it possible to actually make those comparisons?

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: Yeah, absolutely. So that was actually what my thesis, my master's thesis focussed on identifying how these habitats look differently isotopically and then we were able to use that as our template to see if we can tell the difference between a salmon farmed or hatchery salmon. Look at one that had been in the river versus one here in California. Our salmon used a lot of floodplain habitats when floodplains are available. And so we wanted to see, you know, do these fish take a floodplain pathway instead of the river pathway as juveniles? And we ultimately want to see which habitats they're using.

CO: And, you know, what habitat they've been in, because you know what food they would have had, what the environment was in those places. Is that right?

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: Yeah, exactly. And so what you have to do if you are going to do a study that's using fish eyes, is you have to know the landscape that the fish are using. And so we already had laid that foundation here in California where we already knew what these dietary values were and these different habitats. And then we were actually able to build on that by looking back in the layers of their eyes and seeing, yes, this fish that used this habitat. And so, for example, the farmed salmon, they're fed a diet that is very marine rich in marine protein, which looks very different in a fish compared to a fish that's been in the river. And so you can actually go back in time and see these differences and you might catch a fish in freshwater and though it spent time in fresh water. But because it came from a fish farm or a hatchery, it actually looks like an ocean fish, even though it had been raised in freshwater.

CO: Are you going to look at the eyeballs of other freshwater fish?

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: Yeah, absolutely. You know, there's lots of fresh water management questions that can be answered. Multiple freshwater habitats, many fish here in California and all over the world use freshwater habitats. And they're very important to our ecosystems. And so if we know what the dietary differences are that exist in these freshwater landscapes. Then we can actually relate that back to the eyes and it can really improve conservation of our freshwater fish if we actually understand what habitats they're using as juveniles.

CO: Do you think that other scientists will start using this method that you've developed?

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: So I wasn't the first to use it. Actually, there was a lab in Florida that had started using it for marine fish. I was the first to use it in freshwater. And so this method has already been applied to various marine fish, not many. And there's even a lab, I think, in China that's actually looking at squid eyes and actually applying this technique to squid. I think we're going to see a lot more people who are going to be using this because it really is an additional, a great additional tool that we can then use to kind of understand fish better.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. Miranda, thank you.

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

MIRANDA BELL TILCOCK: Bye.

CH: Miranda Bell Tilcock is the lead researcher on a new study of fish eyes. We reached her at home in Davis, California.

[Music: Classical music]

B.C. man gets a catch while on the phone with surgeon

Guest: Murray Zelt

CH: Last Wednesday, Murray Zelt headed out for some ice fishing on Horse Lake near his home in 100 Mile House, British Columbia. He picked that lake specifically because it has good cell reception. And he was expecting a call from his surgeon. About an hour into his time at the lake, he got that call and also got something else at the exact same time, a 27 pound lake trout. Here's how Murray Zelt described that moment to the CBC this morning.

MURRAY ZELT: So I had my phone out sitting beside me already. And in the back of my mind, I had this funny feeling, you know, gosh, I haven't had a bite yet. What if something bites While i'm on the phone? Sure as heck, we're on the phone for five minutes. He just starts discussing how my surgery went and how I'm feeling. And my arm gets just about yanked out of its socket. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I got a fish on. And luckily, he's actually an avid, outdoorsy guy, too. And he says, well, my goodness, I better get off the phone. I don't want you to lose it. And I'm like, I haven't even discussed half the things about my procedure yet. Like, you know, I had lots more to talk about. So we chatted for about five minutes. So I'm trying to battle this fish. And I actually at one time held the phone up to the reel so he could hear just screaming as the fish was going on a big run. And he's like, oh, no, I got to get off the phone, he says, you can't lose that fish. So I told them, well, text me after and if I'm fortunate enough to land it, I'll share some pictures. So it's just it's real.

SHELLEY JOYCE: So how big was that sucker? Did you know right away that it was huge, as big as it was?

MZ: Even more crazy and just been blessed by the fish gods. I don't know what's going on. But two days before I cut a 14 pounder, I've never cut a bigger fish than six pounds through the ice, rainbow trout fishing. And so I catch a 14 pounder two days before that. And I've been given some nice pointers from the resort owner, Bruno, from Bonanza Resort of some different lures to use. So then I went out and when we landed that one, I actually was a little careless, got my hand too close to the mouth. It got very sharp teeth, cut my fingers up pretty badly but it was worth it. And anyways, I bought a first aid kit and then the next day I'd go out there as I'm battling the big fish. Luckily with a guy fairly close by in a tent, I got to know quite well a really nice guy, Jeff MacMichael, RCMP member in [inaudible]. So he comes over to help me land this fish. And yeah, we battled it for fifteen minutes and we were both like two kids in the candy store and we got it out in the ice. We were hooting and hollering and he's like, I've never seen anything so big. It's as big as my dog. He's got a black lab and his dog was sniffing it and he's just, he's freaking out. But he helped pull it out of the water. I said, be careful. It's teeth are sharp. What does he do? He cuts his fingers and he's bleeding all over the ice now. So the first aid kit I bought, I ended up putting it to use right away. And as we both bandaged up now, it was just crazy.

SJ: And you returned it to the water, right? You took the hook out and put it back in.

MZ: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It didn't seem right to keep something that big, I guess. And it was, you know, you can still eat them. I've heard different stories. Some guys say they get pretty greasy and a lot of fat with that size. But you can cook them up different ways, can'em or smoke'em. But I had already had that fourteen pounder the other day because it was bleeding pretty bad when I caught it. So I thought I've got plenty of fish in my freezer. I don't need this big guy.

CH: There was ice fisherman Murray Zelt speaking with the CBC's Shelley Joyce on the program DAYBREAK Kamloops today. Last week, he cut a 27 pound lake trout while he was on the phone.

[Music: Circus music ]

Part 3: MAID: UN Rapporteur

MAID: UN Rapporteur

Guest: Gerard Quinn

CH: Gerard Quinn had a warning for Canadian senators today, Mr. Quinn is the United Nations special rapporteur for the rights of persons with disabilities. He was testifying before the Senate committee that's debating bill C7. The new legislation aimed at expanding access to medical aid in dying. The changes would remove the requirement that a person's natural death be foreseeable before they can qualify for an assisted death. We reached Gerard Quinn in County Galway, Ireland.

CO: Mr. Quinn, what concerns do you have about Canada's plan to extend medical aid in dying to people whose death is not yet foreseeable?

GERARD QUINN: We're concerned that it massively expands the range of people with disabilities who potentially will be given access, so to speak, of this Right. We're concerned that there might be issues there, as it were, undermining their autonomy and their capacity to make the right decisions. I don't mean the lack of legal capacity, but I mean, it's certain pressure being brought to bear by, for example, lack of services or a lack of community living options.

CO: Can you give us specifics as to who you think is at risk here, that if this law happens and there are challenges to it, what vulnerabilities do you see that it introduces?

GQ: Well, the previous UN special rapporteur and the UN treaty body on disability already met some soundings on the 2016 amendments. And I think they're magnified many times over when it comes to the C7 bill, because no one contemplated that there would be an extension of medically assisted right to die outside of reasonable foreseeable death. So people are worried that what they call the architecture of choice, the various inputs into making our decisions will be [inaudible] when it comes to people with disabilities because of lack of availability or access to basic services to enable them to to live with their condition. And one suggestion was made in the Senate hearing that the 90 day period being used to assess whether or not somebody is eligible, might better be used to actually put together an emergency task force to respond to the care needs of particular individuals.

CO: Just to advance on this, that without what people need in order to live equally within the society, without the society providing that, that people will be inclined to perhaps take advantage of medical assistance in dying, not because they have no choices, but because they were made to have no choices by the lack of resources that will allow them to live a good life.

GQ: Yes, very subtly. But in fact, yes, also, there is a concern that even if it didn't have that effect, it still sends or perhaps reinforces is a better word, ableist assumptions that are embedded out there in society.

CO: What's an ableist assumption?

GQ: A very pernicious assumption that somebody who has a disability, their life is somehow worth less than somebody else's life.

CO: This bill, C7 came about because of a ruling in Quebec, two people who did not have a foreseeable death, but they were in a great deal of pain. One of the plaintiffs was a woman named Nicole Gladu. She has post polio syndrome. And the judge said that, "She feels worn down at the end of her tether, a prisoner of her body and her illness". And so Justice Baudouin and the decision to say that she should have a right to access medical assistance in dying because of just how unbearable her life had become. That was the right she wanted to give her. What do you say to Nicole Gladu?

GQ: Well, I think that was a very humanitarian judgement. And I think, you know, the life of the long, hard experience and the judge opened up the rights of human experience and responded accordingly. However, it's probably safer in terms of establishing a public policy into the future to appeal such judgements and to get a much more definitive ruling from the Supreme Court so that the full parameters of the rights are fully tested out at that level.

CO: But what should be their rights?

GQ: I think, have autonomy, right. But I think if the tool being used to advance their autonomy. Eats into or undermines positive images of people with disabilities, then that's cause for us to pause and think before pushing that button.

CO: How do you give people the means to become more autonomous at the same time protecting their right to say, I can't bear this anymore?

GQ: I think all of the dimensions of the autonomy based argument probably weren't fully argued out relative to the equality arguments in the lower court. I think if there were a definitive ruling that agonised over the competing rights and then try to strike some sort of meaningful balance, that would be a more sure way forward on relying on the lower court ruling.

CO: When do you think there is a way to balance that? Do you think that there is a place for medical assistance in dying for people with disabilities?

GQ: Well, I think it has to be explored. And if there are ways of doing it without directly or indirectly reinforcing ableist assumptions, then let's search for that way out of the conundrum.

CO: Would you like to see it excluded as an option, medical assistance and dying for the disabled?

GQ: I would personally lean very heavily against it, partly because of the legacy of ableism and all of our cultures, not just Canada. And the thing about the ableist assumption, since nobody in the Senate on the House of Commons intends this, it's all about the impact your legislation is going to have. And I think it's reasonably foreseeable that open ended legislation could certainly reinforce very subtle ableist assumptions in society.

CO: Do you think there are unintended consequences of such a law?

GQ: Always, always.

CO: Mr. Quinn, I appreciate speaking with you, thank you.

GQ: Thanks very much indeed. Goodnight to you.

CH: Gerard Quinn is the U.N. special rapporteur for the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. He's in County Galway, Ireland.

[Music: techno]

Wombat poop

Guest: Patricia Yang

CH: A few years ago, we told you a story that checked all the boxes, specifically the small boxes deposited by wombats whose poop is cube shaped, obviously it blew our minds. So we called up the scientist who was researching it. That was Patricia Yang, a post-doctoral student in mechanical engineering at Georgia Tech. In 2018, she presented her findings on how and why the Australian marsupials waste takes that unusual shape. And it turns out she was right about a lot of it. Last week, Ms. Yang's research, along with the research of scientists in Tasmania, was published in the journal Soft Matter. But if your copy of Soft Matter has arrived, you already know that. Anyway, from 2018, here's Patricia Yang describing wombat poop.

PATRICIA YANG: So wombats, they pretty much communicate by the smell of poop, so they have to make the smell fixed at a certain location. So the shape of the species, cubicle shaped to prevent the smell rolling away.

CO: So if it was sausage shaped or round, it might disperse?

PY: Yes.

CO: What made you want to find out about wombat poo?

PY: I study feces for two or three years. Wombats are really unique. It has a cubical shape I have never heard of. And to be honest, at the very beginning I thought it was a scam.

CO: You thought it was what?

PY: I thought it was fake.

CO: You thought the wombat poo was fake because it was cubed?

PY: Yeah. I don't think there's something cubical in biology.

CO: You said you've studied feces for two years?

PY: Yes. So my study is on urination and digestion and defecation in general and I published a paper on urination. How all animals urinate and I published another paper on how animals defecate cylindrical poops. It was 2017 or 2016 on the journal called Soft Matter.

CO: It's called what? Soft matter?

PY: Yeah. The title is Hydrodynamics of Defecation.

CO: But the journal is called Soft Matter.

PY: Oh yeah.

CO: There is actually a periodical for feces.

PY: Oh yeah. That's a serious journal for people studying like ketchup or Playdough. I think that's why the editor feels like we are a very good fit of the journal.

CO: It's okay. Speaking of fit, how did you find out that their poo comes out in cubes? Like how did you find out about how they do that?

PY: So I reached out to a wombat expert in Tasmania and he told me that he has many roadkill wombats. So he actually has 10 dead wombats in his freezer and asked me how many I need, he shipped over the wombat intestine with feces in there to Georgia Tech.

CO: So what did you see in the intestines that could explain why they poo cubes?

PY: The first thing I noticed, they are really chunks at the end of the intestine, like maybe the last one a half metre. These cubes are these faecal chunks. They are not e coli cubicle Feltham have sharper corners then others.

CO: Sounds really painful.

PY: For wombat or for me?

CO: [laughter] No, I'm thinking of the wombat and how many of these little poos does the wombat squeeze out in the course of a night?

PY: In the course of a night, they can do 80 to 100 pieces.

CO: Oh, dear. [laughter]

CH: That was Patricia Yang, a post-doctoral student in mechanical engineering at Georgia Tech, explaining wombat poop to Carole in November of 2018.

[Music: guitar instrumental]

Dr. Martens IPO

Guest: Scarlett O’Malley

CH: Seems incongruous for stars like Rihanna and Pharrell to sport the same brand of footwear as British mods, hardcore punks and the grunge icons of the 90s, and it doesn't make much sense that a shoe generally known for its countercultural associations has also been standard issue for British police. But the appeal of a pair of Doc Martens has always sort of defied logic. Pete Townshend famously put some on when he grew, "sick of dressing up as a Christmas tree" in the 60s. And when Miley Cyrus came in like a wrecking ball in 2013, she did it in a pair of Docs. Now the company is banking on its unlikely mass appeal to raise an unlikely amount of money. Last week, an initial public offering valued Doc Martens at more than six billion dollars Canadian and shares will start regular trading on the London Stock Exchange on Wednesday. Scarlett O'Malley is a London based DJ and producer and a lifelong Doc Martens aficionado. We reached her in London.

CO: Scarlett, what do you make of the news of this IPO and the tremendous amount of money that the Doc Marten Company is now valued at?

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: Having known the brands pretty much my whole life, I'm really not surprised about how popular they are and how much money they think they're going to make. Apparently, they've made a ton of money, over lockdown with people buying their shoes. So it really comes as no surprise to me that by going public, they're going to be even more popular.

CO: This is the Levi's jeans of footwear, isn't it? Doc Martens. And so what comes to mind when you hear the name or when you see someone wearing them?

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: I love that you correlated to Levi jeans because it's so true. My first pair of shoes was a pair of Doc Martens, and I've worn them throughout my whole entire life where I've been really into punk music with I've really been into ska music, you know, so connected to subcultures. I don't think we'd be able to get rid of it very easily. To be honest.

CO: It's amazing the range of identities that have been part of the Doc Martens tradition. I mean, the association with skinheads at soccer games and A Clockwork Orange and the association with violence. Then it passes into Elton John and Pete Townshend. I mean, the range is extraordinary, isn't it?

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: It really is. I think a brand can't help how people decide to take on their brand. But I think what they've done really well is associated themselves with really cool artists, with really cool singers and deejays. So I suppose the way that I kind of look at it is through like British subculture history. So, kind of looking at when it was taken on for fashion rather than workwear. So in the 70s, like punks utilising Dock's and then the skinhead revival in Britain in the 80s with skinheads and suedeheads wearing them, and then in the 90s with a lot of rave culture taking on Doc Martens as well. And I'd even say today that Doc Martens are the most worn shoe of people that like to go to raves. It's definitely a brand issue that comes linked to a music culture.

CO: And what else? Because this is I mean, it's not just it's everyone from punks to police, right? I mean, this has been, are they still being worn? People still buy them just because they're simply comfortable?

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: Oh, definitely not bought because they're comfortable. I don't think anyone would ever profess to wear Docs because they're comfortable, but they really just pull together an outfit and they always give a bit of age. And I think people wear them definitely as a fashion statement. I don't know. I know you said about the police and stuff, but I don't think anyone would ever admit to wearing Doc Martens because police have worn them. [chuckles]

CO: You mentioned music and the association with some really famous moments. What are the ones that come to mind when you think of Doc Martens?

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: You know, what really sticks in my mind is the film, This is England. It was about recreating British culture in the 80s. And there's this monumental moment when this young boy is getting his boots and his mum's like, I'll just get these ones. Just get these ones. He said, I've got to have Doc Martens because they're the proper ones, because you have to have Doc's because that was part of your identity. That was the staple of your look.

CO: And what about when Pete Townshend decided he was going to wear them on stage. And said he wanted to get rid of all the flowing robes and actually wear ordinary people's clothing.

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: I don't blame him at all. But ordinary is not something I would say, because I think people that wear Docs kind of see themselves as unordinary. They see themselves as being a bit different and having a bit of individual kind of look.

CO: And sometimes they're larger than life, aren't they? I'm thinking of Elton John's boots in the pinball wizard and Tommy. I mean, what effect did that have, do you think, on the culture of Doc Martens.

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: Having such a large name wearing a boot? I don't think it's as much of the identity as, say, like the Sex Pistols or, you know, those kind of people that really saw themselves outside of mainstream life, but within counterculture, that's where Docs really see themselves. And even one of their new brands that they put out, which is the heritage distortion, is all about taking something that is built within the heritage of the boot, but bringing it into the modern day. And I think that's really what underpins the whole idea of Docs, is that it's not about the big stars wearing them, it's about the people that are part of these subcultures.

CO: And what about women wearing them? Because Docs are historically at least a very masculine world. I mean, from your point of view, what does it mean for women to wear them?

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: I when I think of Docs, I think of women wearing them. I think of all the festivals I've been to and girls will build their outfits around Docs. They'll wear bikinis, and Docs it's always part of the outfit, and I always just think of women wearing them, I've never really thought about the gender difference.

CO: And it ties an outfit together, even if it's a bikini. Yeah, honestly, I dunno about in Canada, but that is a big look at England, especially during the summer time at festivals.

CO: Any risk, though, that with this valuation's six billion dollar IPO that it might somehow undermine that authenticity of this sort of working class subculture?

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: No, not at all, because I think when we think about something going public and especially kind of in the U.K. media at the moment, we constantly get told NHS is going to be privatised and private companies aren't feeding our schoolchildren and all these kind of negative connotations with private, I think by making it a public company, your only strengthening that relationship to working class subculture because you're giving it back to the people. And I think only positive things can be seen for this rather than weakening the brand. It's almost like linking itself close to its core values and its roots.

CO: Scarlett, it's good to talk to you. Thanks.

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: Lovely to talk to you, too. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

SCARLETT O'MALLEY: Bye.

CH: Scarlett O'Malley as a producer and Doc Martens aficionado. We reached her in London, England.

[Music: horns instrumental]

New stricter rules for rotational workers in New Brunswick

Guest: Karen Boudeau

CH: New stricter rules for rotational workers in New Brunswick are turning a hard situation into an untenable one, according to many of the families affected. To date out of province, workers returning home have been able to leave isolation after five and later seven days with a negative covid test. Now, the full 14 day isolation will be required for all members of a household. Karen Boudreaux lives in Moncton. Her husband works as a civil engineer in Saskatchewan. She told CBC New Brunswick what the new rules mean for their household.

I'm pretty frustrated because we have three, three children, three young children. One of them is in school. One of them is in pre-school. So the one that's in school, he won't be able to attend school for two weeks now instead of just the seven days. And because my husband is only here six days, that means I have to quarantine alone with the kids for eight days. So that's more time isolated at home than they would spend in school. And for my middle son, he goes to pre-school that we pay privately. So we still need to keep paying that, even though he can't attend for at least half of the month. So for now, we're kind of on a standstill. He's just staying down there. I'm here with the kids. I mean we're hoping we're going to get to see him probably in a couple of months. If nothing changes and if it keeps going on any longer, we might just have to consider just moving out of the province. It's starting to affect our kids. They don't get to see their dad. My oldest son, he thrives on routine. So taking him out of school every two weeks it's not good for his mental health. He's having more behavioural issues. He's having a hard time socialising with his friends because he can't see them as much. He misses a lot of a lot of stuff at school and he doesn't thrive as well, working, doing his schoolwork home. So that's really affecting him a lot. And our youngest is, she's only one. So my husband is missing out on all of the first milestones. He's going to miss out on her, starting to walk, starting to talk. And we do face time, but it's not the same thing. It's hard when we know the amount of taxes we're paying that he is essentially barred from his home. It's extremely frustrating for him. He's very mad. And it's hard because we're not being heard. They won't give us any statistics on rotational workers infecting anyone. We don't know if anyone, if that has even happened. We just want to be heard. We want them to know that our families are hurting and that the next step for a lot of us is to just move.

CH: Karen Boudreau's husband, is a rotational worker who divides his time between Saskatchewan and New Brunswick. Mrs. Boudreau was speaking with the CBC's Alexandre Silberman from Moncton.

[Music: House of the rising sun]

Hilton Valentine Obit

CH: This, of course, is House of the Rising Sun by the animals and for generations of budding guitarists, it needs no introduction. Mastering that opening line is a rite of passage. Hilton Valentine, a founding member of the Animals and the guitarist behind that riff, died on Friday. He was 77. Before the animals ruled British and American airwaves. Mr. Valentine taught himself how to play guitar by copying the riffs he heard growing up in northeast England. Popular folk skiffle music was the wonderwall of the day. But once Mr. Valentine heard the screaming electric guitars of American rock and roll music, he never looked back. The Animals formed in 1963, and it was his guitar licks and his looks that earned the group attention. As his band mate Eric Burdon told the magazine Guitar International, "I don't think the element of rock was in the band until we found him. In those days, Helton wasn't just playing rock and roll. He looked rock and roll. Here was a guy with a greased mop of hair combed back, cheap leather jacket, winkle pickers, shoes, black jeans and a smile on his face, playing through an echoplex tape delay device, which was a secret weapon back then".

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February 1, 2021 Episode Transcript

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