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The AIH Transcript for December 03, 2020

Hosts: Helen Mann and Talia Schlanger

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello. I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol Off.

TALIA SCHLANGER: Good evening, I'm Talia Schlanger, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

TS: Tonight:

HM: Threat ceiling. A Republican elections official in Georgia says he and his staff are being targeted by increasingly violent harassment — and he's calling out Donald Trump for enabling it.

TS: Bullet points. Bullet holes left in the halls of Parliament Hill after the 2014 attack there won't be patched up. Instead, they'll be preserved. And that's not sitting well with some of the politicians who were there at the time.

TS: And … Branching out. A woman in Australia comes home to find a memorable, fuzzy intruder nestled in her Christmas tree.

HM: Mr. Sterling, I would like to start, first of all, with what you think about the address that President Trump posted on social media late yesterday?

GABRIEL STERLING: It kind of caught me off guard because literally nearly everything he said has either been debunked, been proven or disinformation or shown to not be true. So I was sort of surprised that he's kind of doubling and tripling down on the things that are causing the environment that I talked about on Tuesday with, you know, little or no regard for what the facts have been shown over the last several weeks.

HM: Well, how do his comments fit with the kinds of threats, the hateful messages that you and other election workers have been receiving?

GS: Well, I mean, it's unfortunate… [sigh] it's worse than unfortunate that I'm trying to use measured language at this point after the other day. It feeds into the idea that there was a conspiracy, something has been taken, you have been cheated. Which feeds the fear, anger and disappointment that can lead to the kinds of things that we've seen in terms of the threats and, you know, continued chatter on the Internet and underlying belief that it might be OK to do something potentially terrible.

HM: And when you say potentially terrible, can you be more specific about the kind of violence and threats that you and your family have received since the election and the counts?

GS: Well, I had my 50th birthday a couple of weeks ago, and I guess somebody went right at me and said, well, enjoy your last cake. You know, that was like the first one was kind of this more specific rather than just you’re terrible. So since that time, I’ve gotten a few others, and, you know, you're going to get hung for treason and those kinds of things, but I take a higher profile position. So I kind of expect that kind of craziness occasionally. But the thing that set me off on Tuesday was that there was this kid, a 20-something guy, who just took a job as an election technician, a simple, straightforward contract gig, you know, and he got videoed by these crazy conspiracy theorist guys who were giving commentary that he was doing a simple, normal task. And like, he is manipulating votes, he's committed treason. And within minutes, he had a very unique name. His family was being targeted for harassment. And then there was a tweet that went out, and I found out about this when I talked to the project manager from Dominion who was, you know, audibly upset about this, where they used the kid's name, said, you committed treason. May God have mercy on your soul. And it had a gif of a slowly swinging noose. And was like, I'm done. And that's basically an hour later, I went out in front of the cameras and did what I did.

HM: I just want to clarify by Dominion, you're talking about the company that's responsible for the voting technology?

GS: Dominion Voting Systems.

HM: Right. What effect is this having on your family?

GS: Stress more than anything, I mean, I'm less worried about me, and it's really funny, my parents are more worried about me than I'm worried about me, and I get that to a degree. So I'm sorry for that. And no one should have to go through this. But again, for that kid, he just took a regular job. For me, yeah, it's annoying. I mean, I have to forward dozens of emails daily to the chief of police in my city.

HM: Have you got police stationed at your house? Does anybody?

GS: I don't want to get too much into the actual details, but there's always a car at my home.

HM: Your boss --

GS: And the secretary has constant Georgia state patrol, a bodyguard, a car blocking his gate. They've had people trespass there. They have these caravans that go around his neighbourhood, honking the horn, yelling, waving trump flags. You know, the governor now is being targeted by similar kind of things. I mean, it's crazy.

HM: When you talk about the secretary, you’re talking about your boss, the secretary of state.

GS: Secretary of state, yeah.

HM: Yeah, Brad Raffensperger.

GS: Correct.

HM: He and his wife and children have also been targeted. It's actually pretty shocking. Can you tell us what's happened to both his immediate family, his children and his wife?

GS: Well, the biggest ones that really this all began, nobody threatened Brad, Brad Raffensperger. Nobody threatened me. The very first threat started coming through on his wife, Tricia’s, cell phone, and they were sexualized and violent and terrifying. You know, there's no good way to talk about, you know, in other people's reactions to this. But obviously, it's terrible. It's wrong. But that's part of the reason that I think when I did what I did on Tuesday. No one else had condemned the violent, you know, threats. Until I basically said, you all need to stand up and do something. Finally, the senators and the president had their spokespeople say, well, we condemn all violence, of course. Yeah, it took me… my job is voting system implementation manager. I'm not an elected person. I'm a functionary at best. The fact that it took me losing my temper because a kid who was a contractor got threatened to cause those people to have their say anything should tell us something as well.

HM: Anyone who saw your remarks could see the intensity of your feelings. You said someone's going to get hurt, someone is going to get shot, someone is going to get killed. We know that the president saw your press conference because he retweeted it. But do you think the president appreciates the seriousness of what you're saying?

GS: I can't get into the president's mind on that. But obviously, he saw it. And in typical Donald Trump fashion, he's doubling down. If you read his book and seeing how he reacts to things, you don't give an inch. And so that's not it's not unexpected. I mean, I might have been more shocked if it had caused something different along those fronts, but I'm hoping and praying that maybe it'll get through to some people to say maybe we should be more rational, and some other people who maybe step up and say, yeah, maybe this is a little nuts.

HM: You are a lifelong Republican. How do you feel now about that association, about calling yourself a member of the GOP, given that party leaders, including Mitch McConnell, have failed to call out the president?

GS: Well. This is going to sound flippant at this point, but I'm a big fan of “The Mandalorian”, and one of the first season things Werner Herzog said to the guy, “bounty hunting is a complicated profession”. Politics is a complicated profession. I've been a lifelong Republican, as you said. I’ve been a Republican since I was 15 years old. I'm not going to walk away from my party. I'm going to try to be part of the group that potentially, for lack of a better word, saves the party. I'm going to fight for the sanctity and the sanity of the party that more basically reflects what I want to see happen for the people of my state and my nation. It's never going to be easy. Every party goes through these kinds of things. This is unique. I'm not going to argue the point. And yes, I understand that it feels like from people on the outside looking in, how can you do this after that impassioned speech? And yes, I want to say there's some cognitive dissonance that has to occur to let it happen. But there's your heart and your head and the circumstances around it. And I just can't bring myself to walk away from a party that I've dedicated... it defines a large part of who I am.

HM: Gabriel Sterling, thank you so much for taking time to speak with us. I know you've been very busy because of all of this, and we appreciate it.

GS: Thank you, Helen.

HM: Okay. Take care.

GS: Have a great day. Bye-bye.

HM: Yep. Bye-bye.

TS: Gabriel Sterling is the voting system implementation manager in Georgia. He's in Atlanta.

HM: MS. May, what do you make of the government's decision to preserve these bullet holes in Centre Block?

ELIZABETH MAY: I'm baffled by what makes them think this is now part of our Canadian heritage. I think those bullet holes should have been repaired long ago. And the idea that now that we're spending, I don't know how many hundreds of millions of dollars on refurbishing Centre Block, someone has made a decision. I don't know what kind of consultation they did, but I think it's a mistake.

HM: You know, sometimes when you visit historic sites around the world, they will show you damage from wartime or various attacks. They’ll point out bullet holes, that sort of thing. Is this not part of the building's history now?

EM: Well, I mean, we haven't preserved other things from the building's history. And, you know, obviously, we lost all of the building except the original library to fire. We didn't keep charred bits of the Parliament from rebuilding that happened after the fire. They could have. And the episode that happened, and it was so tragic and so traumatic at the time, and yet unexamined, right? So this is another part that bothers me. I can't imagine another modern democracy that wouldn't have had a public enquiry into what happened when a very disturbed individual carrying a long gun was able to pass by many RCMP vehicles outside the building and walk into Parliament. If it hadn't been for the bravery of one of our House of Commons security members, Samearn Son, who actually confronted the gunman at the door, unarmed himself. I mean, I have a lot of questions about what really happened that day and who was really responsible. Those questions are never answered. But instead, we're going to sort of memorialize the notion of something violent that happened on Parliament Hill by keeping the bullet holes there. And it just strikes me as the wrong area of focus. We should have had a public enquiry. We should cover up the bullet holes now.

HM: While the renovations are underway, Centre Block remains inaccessible. And that's going to be true for about ten years anyway. Before the renovations, though, when you walked past those bullet holes, what came to mind for you?

EM: Well, I was angry. I was angry that a gun was fired across the Hall of Honour from someone who was an RCMP officer who tried to take a shot at the gunman and that the gun he fired went through one level of door at the railway committee room and struck an inner door. And if there had not been two doors at that point, another security guard who was holding those doors closed to protect members of the New Democratic Party caucus would have been killed. There were bullets fired all over the place. And we have never had an enquiry into who was in charge, where was the slip up in security that led to an armed man making his way into Parliament Hill. It puts me in mind of the fact that [chuckling] I'm still angry about the way in which government handled what was a tragic and preventable event, and that, to this day, there are no answers. But we want to sort of treat the bullet holes as somehow venerated. I think our priorities are wrong.

HM: Can you take us back to that day six years ago, and what your most vivid memories are of those happenings?

EM: I had been in Parliament for the early part of Wednesday morning. And thank goodness it was a Wednesday morning because it would have been much, much worse on any other weekday than a Wednesday morning because Parliament wasn't in session. There were not a lot of people, not a lot of tourists walking through the hallways because the various political caucuses were in session. What I remember about it, of course, was that I’d left Parliament Hill. I'd walked back to my office in Confederation Building and then spent the next nine hours or ten hours in lockdown with my team inside our Confederation office building, not knowing what was going on, right? We were told there were gunmen on the roof. There were maybe more people in the building. And it was stressful. I remember talking to friends right away afterwards. Michelle Rempel, who in the Conservative caucus had darted out and run for safety. Stories that made no sense, like school children who were a couple of kids left behind in the Parliamentary Library as someone else went to figure out what was going on. There were a lot of individual stories that kept coming through to us through the day.

HM: The people who conduct the tours always point out sites of interest on Parliament Hill. The decision has been taken that when people are walking through, they will not be pointing out the bullet hole. Does that help a little bit for you?

EM: For me, again, I'm baffled by the decision that's been made. Certainly, Members of Parliament weren't consulted. I think opinions are divided on whether it's a good idea to preserve the bullet holes or not. It surprised me that a decision was made without discussing it more generally with people who are affected by the attack, who were there at the time. It's an unclear position to take that this is somehow part of the heritage of Centre Block, but we won't talk about it when we take people on a tour.

HM: Do you think about your safety any more than you did before the attack? Are you feeling that that security is currently sufficient for you?

EM: There's no real security against a coordinated attack if someone were to attack Parliament Hill. I'm much more concerned, frankly, about the unseen enemy of COVID-19 and what that's done to our lives. What did disturb me, and still disturbs me, is our parliamentary security service. There were several different security services that were protecting us that day. And the people who performed well, and this is just my personal opinion because there was never an enquiry, the people who performed well are our parliamentary personal security officers. The parliamentary security service performed brilliantly. The RCMP officers who were ringing the building in their vehicles didn't notice an armed man running by them. I think it's because they had vehicular awareness, not pedestrian awareness. So they weren't watching and looking. But I remain convinced that we would do better to focus on, even at this late date, an enquiry into the security breaches on Parliament Hill, then I'd feel safer.

HM: Elizabeth May, thank you. I appreciate you talking with us.

EM: Thank you so much.

HM: OK, bye-bye. Take care.

EM: Bye-bye.

CH: Elizabeth May is a Green Party MP. We reached her in Sydney, Nova Scotia.

[Music: Ambient]

messages in a bottle

Guest: Howard Kroplick

TS: Recently, in a village on Long Island, a little bit of history repeated. Some workers were restoring an 18th-century grist mill in Roslyn, New York. And they found something left behind. It was a bottle, tucked away under the floor, by men who worked on the building a century ago. Howard Kroplick is the head of the Rosyln Landmark Society.

HM: Mr. Kroplick, what did you find inside this old milk bottle?

HOWARD KROPLICK: Well, we found an amazing discovery. Construction workers who are restoring a 1700s gristmill found messages in a bottle that was left by construction workers who were restoring it 103 years ago.

HM: One of the letters is in Italian, the other in English. The handwriting in the Italian one is particularly beautiful. Who wrote it, and what does it say?

HK: Yes, the Italian letter was written by a mason named Romolo Capparelli, and he was the person responsible for putting the concrete floor in the gristmill when it was being restored. And also, he did special concrete planking on the outside of the building to make the concrete look like wood. And we were able to translate that. I have a friend who is a professor of Italian culture at a nearby university, and he translated the letter, which basically said, I am Romolo Capparelli. I invented this new form of concrete planking. Please remember me. And we do remember him 103 years later.

HM: because of this note that he left in this does bottle. It's quite tender, actually, to think that he wanted to be remembered. And now we have this from him.

HK: Yes. Yes. And we actually knew about him because he also left his initials on the outside of the building in the concrete, the RC. So we were investigating a couple of months ago who the RC could be? And we found in our archives of note that it was Romolo Capparelli, and he was a native of the village and worked on a lot of different concrete buildings in the area, including his own home.

HM: And he was clearly a very talented craftsman, given what you’re describing.

HK: He was a very talented craftsman. And he worked on the churches that are still standing in the village today.

HM: Does he have descendants in the area?

HK: He has a descendant in South Carolina, who I was in communications with a couple of months ago when I was doing some research on the initials. And when I informed her about that we found the letter and the bottles. She was so excited because it was a family folklore that Romolo had left something in the gristmill. And she said, wow, 103 years later, it was discovered.

HM: Wow, that's pretty extraordinary. What about the English letter writer? What did he have to say?

HK: Yes, the English letter was written by Stephen Spiedling, who was 81 years old at the time, and he was a carpenter again in the village. He had a carpentry shop right across from the gristmill. And the building actually still stands today. And in his letter, he wrote a brief history of the work that he and Romolo were doing, including a listing of all the people who worked on the gristmill. And he noted that they were hired by Harold Godwin, who is the grandson of the poet and civic leader William Cullen Bryant.

HM: So there are notable figures that are attached to the mill.

HK: There are definitely notable figures who attached with it. And in addition to the two messages, they left four coins in there, in the bottle, as well. A silver war token, some Indian head pennies and an 1863 Haitian coin.

HM: I don't want to be crass, but are the coins worth anything?

HK: I wish they were because that would have helped pay for the restoration. But, unfortunately, they're not.

HM: [chuckling] And you say that Mr. Spiedling was 81 in 1917.

HK: He was 81 years old, and some of his buildings still exist in the village. And like I said, his carpentry shop is still standing right on Old Northern Boulevard, right across from the gristmill.

HM: Wow. What kind of condition was the bottle and were the letters in?

HK: You know, amazingly, they were in pretty good shape. They were encased in the concrete slab that was used for the first floor of the building. And nobody had ever noticed them before. But we were removing the concrete as part of our restoration process. And a worker suddenly came across the bottle, and there they were. And what was amazing was the day before, I happened to take a picture of that section of the gristmill and the concrete slab and never realized there was a bottle there until the next day, and sure enough, I have a picture of the bottle in the concrete slab.

HM: I read that that the gristmill even has an association with George Washington. Did he sleep there?

HK: No, he didn't sleep there, but he had breakfast with the owner of the gristmill back in 1790. And most likely, he did a visit to the gristmill as well.

HM: What are you going to do with the items then?

HK: We're going to preserve the items. And then when we turn the building into an educational centre, they're going to be on prominent display.

HM: How long do you think it'll be before the building is ready?

HK: Well, we're hoping within two years.

HM: Wow. Well, that's very exciting to hear. Thank you very much for sharing the story.

HK: Oh, it's great talking to you.

HM: You too, bye-bye.

HK: Bye-bye.

Howard Kroplick is the head of the Rosyln Landmark Society.

[Ambient]

Christmas koala

TS: As many people seem to be this year, Amanda McCormick of Adelaide, Australia, is really leaning in to Christmas. She’s already got her tree up and dressed with all the baubles and twinkly lights. Because hey, we could all use a little normalcy right now, and if a splendidly decorated tree is your version of normal, go for it. Unfortunately for the Amanda McCormick though things got decidedly abnormal, quickly — and she found herself calling up an animal rescue operation...to report a Koala in her Christmas tree. The person on the other end of the line initially thought it was a prank call. But no… it seems the curious juvenile caught sight of the sparkly spruce and just wanted to check it out — even sampling some of the leaves, which, unfortunately for the koala were not eucalyptus. And, unfortunately, were also not leaves, because the tree is made of plastic. Which is why I think it's safe to say it was a pretty abnormal experience for all involved.

Part two: Ethiopia doctor, Canada UN Indigenous

HM: Dr. Tedros, what are the conditions like for people living in that refugee camp right now?

TEFERA TEDROS: The conditions are a little bit difficult. People are sleeping in open fields with little clothes. And also, the medical facility is really overwhelmed.

HM: When you say they're sleeping in open fields, are there not tents?

TT: The tents are not enough. There are some, but it's not it's not enough, prioritized to women who just delivered in the last ten, 12 days, and also the small kids, otherwise, the rest is sleeping mostly in a field.

HM: Now, you are one of the only doctors in that camp. What are some of the things that you are treating people for?

TT: I am treating the wounds that have inflicted in the shelling in Humera. There are also infections coming from a shortage of water and food, especially in children and ladies and women. Infections of the chest and also infections of the lung and infections of the gastrointestinal tract. And also, other illnesses that have come along with the acute starvation that have followed when people were evacuated from their homes.

HM: And how far have those people walked to get to the camp?

TT: The nearest would be around 70 kilometres. And so far, we've received people who have come from 300 kilometres.

HM: So 60 to 300 kilometres, and you say they don't have much when they come with them. I guess they're trying to bring a few possessions along as well?

TT: Everything is confiscated on the way, beginning from some money and jewellery if there are any and clothings and even some food, which some people carry with them to use on the way, everything is taken by these militias and militias and para-militias on the way. So people are really starving and having difficulties.

HM: And now, you know, not only are you working so hard to help people yourself, you are a refugee. What is it like for you?

TT: I am a refugee.

HM: Yeah, what is it like for you when you stop and think about that?

TT: I don't know. When you look back at what we have lost and what we have left behind at home because there were many people who were very, very innocent civilians and wounded and some of them are left unattended at home, and so that's really more worrying and also concerning to me.

HM: Do you have kids, a family?

TT: I am married, and a father of two. I have two kids, six years and nine years old. They are in Addis.

HM: Addis, OK. And so they're safe?

TT: So far, they're safe, but I don't know what would happen to them because many people are sending to prison. And I don't know what will happen. I don't know, really. I'm extremely worried.

HM: You're worried there will be targeted because people will know they're from Tigray?

TT: That's what we're hearing right now at the moment.

HM: Can you give us an idea of how bad the fighting was back in Ethiopia when you were treating patients?

TT: The fighting was extremely bad. There was extensive shellings into the city, almost the whole city, the whole town. And immediately, we just received many, many injured kids and women and also men from the blasts, from the shellings. And we had 15 bodies that we received from the community on day one. On day two of shelling, we received another eight bodies with more injuries. Then, we thought it was not safe for our patients, injured patients, especially for us. And then we had to take our patients to a place where there is literally somewhere 70 kilometres away from where we were, and we continued our treatment with the supplies that we got from the hospital.

HM: In this moment, when you are fleeing yourselves, you're trying to get your patients out. How did you manage to do that?

TT: We did. We had these volunteers who had a tractor with a lorry on its back. And then we put all the patients, the wounded patients, on the lorry, on the tractor. And then we just took them out. Most of them were injured in different parts of the body. So we just took them out to a place where it was safe. And then we continued our treatment there. We actually took most of the injured on day one. And then the rest the next morning, including, by the way, the five government soldiers who were severely wounded, and we were treating them in hospital.

HM: Was there ever any point where any member of your team hesitated to take those government soldiers along with you?

TT: There was no hesitation, by the way. we just took them as any of our patients.

HM: After you left them in the care of others, you say you went on and escaped on your own. Can you tell us a bit about that journey and how far you went and what it was like?

TT: We escaped on our feet. We just we went into the bushes around the town, which we were in. And then stayed in the bush for two days. And then, after two days, we decided it's not safe. And then we just walked around 40 kilometres into the camp, which we are in right now.

HM: Do you foresee a day when you will feel that it is safe to go home?

TT: That's the kind of hope that I had a few days ago. But now, from the things that are going on inside our state, it would take some time. Because now, the killing is continuing, the killing of young men, especially, particularly young men. Following the sentiments of the government, which wer given in the last July or August, when the government is saying that in a war in Tigray state, women will cry and men will die. That's what the government said. So I think that they are exactly doing this order, probably. And this is really a hopeless situation to go back home safe.

HM: It is a terrible situation. I very much appreciate you sharing your experiences with us. Thank you so much.

TT: Thank you very much for being a voice for us. And I hope, hope something will go in the right way. And then, we'll have our safety and peace again.

HM: Take care of yourself.

TT: Thank you.

HM: Bye-bye.

TT: Thank you very much.

TS: We reached Tefera Tedros in a refugee camp in Hamdayet, Sudan, which is near the Ethiopian border. You can find more on this story on our website, at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

TS: It is not the kind of Christmas countdown that Quebeckers were hoping for. It was just last month that Premier Francois Legault rolled out what he called his "moral contract with Quebecers"

It promised people that, if they self-isolated for one week, they'd would be able to get together in groups of ten, four times, over four days during the Christmas break. Not even a week later, those four gatherings shrunk to two. And today, with the second wave of the virus refusing to ebb, Premier Legault announced that, for the majority of Quebeckers, those two gatherings had been reduced to none. At a news conference afterwards, the premier was asked if he expected to pay a price for raising false festive hopes.

FRANCOIS LEGAULT: What I'm trying to do is to protect as much as I can in the population. And yes, there are some physical health issues, but we have also mental health issues. And I'm trying to do my best. Like I said in French, I'm not perfect. I'm trying to do my best. And sincerely, when we propose the two days, two weeks ago, I thought, at the time, that we would be able to decrease the number of cases. But it's increasing. But it's also, I have to say, increasing a lot more in other countries, like the United States and Europe. So we're all fighting the same virus. We're doing better for the second wave than in the United States and Europe. But still, it's increasing, unfortunately.

RAQUEL FLETCHER: You know, Quebeckers had this idea that they were going to be able to have these two gatherings between December 24th and December 27th. Now, you're saying they can't, but are you not concerned that they're going to go ahead anyway, that they've already made plans and they want to celebrate Christmas anyway?

FL: But I think that people understanding the danger, understanding that they may infect people they love, they like. I don't see how these people, the ones that are responsible, will do that. But if some are doing it, we’ll try with the police representatives to fight against that. But nobody wants to infect somebody else from the same family or some of their friends. So we'll have to explain the danger. And again, when I see that the number of death in the world in the last few days, I still don't understand how some people can think that it's not dangerous.

TS: That was Quebec premier Francois Legault answering a question from Global's Raquel Fletcher today in Quebec City.

[Music: Folk guitar]

Canada UN Indigenous

Guest: David Lametti

TS: The Trudeau government is acting on its 2015 promise to adopt the UN Declaration on Indigenous rights. David Lametti, the Minister of Justice, was joined by national Indigenous leaders as he introduced legislation today. If the bill passes, it would direct Canadian governments to align with the declaration's articles relating to Indigenous language, culture, self-determination and traditional lands. But the declaration has already come under fire from premiers. They argue it creates legal uncertainty for both governments and businesses. We reached Minister of Justice David Lametti in Ottawa.

HM: Minister Lametti, what took Canada so long to make this move?

DAVID LAMETTI: Well, I can't speak for governments before us. We certainly committed to doing it. We recognized that in 2016, in Minister Bennett at the United Nations, in New York, with a number of our Indigenous leaders present. And we have we since moved. We had the private members bill that Romeo Saganash put before the House. And we had passed it in the House. But that sadly died in the Senate before the end of the last Parliament. So we committed to bringing it back, and we committed to having it tabled in the House of Commons before the end of this calendar year. And that's what we've done.

HM: What is this going to actually change for Indigenous people in Canada?

DL: Well, let me back up just a second by saying that this is a United Nations document, largely draughted for and by Indigenous people around the world, including a great many Canadian Indigenous leaders at the time. It enshrines a set of inherent human rights, such as language and culture, right to self-determination, education, things that perhaps many of us take for granted as being protected. And it protects them for Indigenous peoples. And we have brought forth legislation to enshrine that document in Canadian law. So it's hugely important in terms of moving forward. It helps to frame everything we do moving forward, whether it's with framing new laws on Indigenous languages as we've already done, and it's already inspired that or the protection of Indigenous children. Again, the declaration inspired that Law C-92 in the last Parliament, or its resource development, environmental protection. I mean, it has the ability to frame all of these things. And it also helps to frame the activities of private actors, say resource and development companies. When they would like to develop a project, they will have, I think, a greater degree of certainty because they will engage in a process of meaningful consultation. So it really it tries to undo the previous practises of colonialism by making Indigenous peoples true partners in everything we do moving forward.

HM: As you know, this is not going to be popular with some provinces. Ontario's Indigenous and Resource Development Minister said today, and I'm quoting, I am disappointed in this decision to push through legislation of this magnitude before adequate consultation has been completed. How do you respond to Greg Rickford?

DL: Oh, my goodness. I mean, the bill itself, the private member's bill from Romeo Saganash has been in existence since 2016. We had passed it in the House of Commons in the previous Parliament. And again, we used that private member's bill as the basis for this bill moving forward. The U.N. declaration has been around a lot longer. British Columbia has implemented the declaration through its own implementing legislation. There has been a lot of time to think about this, a lot of time to discuss it. We've had it as a platform commitment. I would suggest that critique is misplaced. There's been plenty of opportunities to engage on it.

HM: Yeah, it's just that, you know, Minister Rickford also points out that it has larger implications than just what happens on Parliament Hill. Are you suggesting he's being disingenuous?

DL: Look, I think he has this position, but, you know, we did we did about this at a first ministers meeting in January of 2020 in Victoria. Minister Rickford wasn’t there. His colleague, Doug Downie, was. There's been plenty of time to engage on this. We are proceeding in an area of federal jurisdiction where the federal law that will implement the declaration as far as federal law goes, it will be up to each individual province to decide how to implement it into their own spheres of jurisdiction. Again, they've got a wonderful model with British Columbia. A number of other provinces and territories are interested. My sense of it is, therefore, you know, it may increase... it may put the burden of explaining why it's not implemented in provincial law on a provincial government. But nothing that we are doing is going to have an impact on the laws of Ontario.

HM: Jason Kenney has long argued that adopting the U.N. resolution is going to create uncertainty for investors because we just don't know how courts will end up interpreting it. What do you say to businesses and to workers who don't want to see any more projects that might get hung up in court?

DL: I would say the opposite, that this is the kind of framework that allows for greater certainty. That's certainly the message that that Perry Belgard, the National Chief of the Assembly First Nations, or that David Chartrand, the national spokesperson for the Metis, were articulating today. The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers has come out in favour of this, precisely because it will generate more certainty in the process for the development of resource oil and gas projects. You'll have a better idea of what constitutes meaningful consultation in a process. And that can't be anything but good for those industries. And it's the reason why we've worked closely with them and they're very open-minded to it.

HM: Your government is, of course, in a minority position. I have to ask about the timing of this yet again. What is it that you're hoping to achieve and why now?

DL: Well, I think we're hoping to pass this legislation. We feel we have support in the House of Commons. We made a promise in our platform to deposit it in the table in the House of Commons before the end of the calendar year. We've done that. We feel it's a positive step forward. We're working on a number of different fronts. With respect to the reconciliation project, Marc Miller is working night and day on solving drinking water problems and other problems, as well as COVID with respect to indigenous communities. Carolyn Bennett is working on the formal side in terms of Crown-Indigenous relations. Dan Vandal has a particular focus on the north. So we have a multiple whole-of-government approach here with respect to reconciliation, and this is an important part of that whole project.

HM: Minister Lametti, thank you for taking time to talk to us.

DL: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you.

TS: David Lametti is Canada's Justice Minister. We reached him in Ottawa.

[Music: Horns!!!]

TS: Last month, Austin, Texas mayor Steve Adler had a sober message about rising COVID numbers in his city.

STEVE ADLER: The thrust or the most important message trying to get out to the community right now is that our numbers are increasing. And everybody has to be aware of that. And we need to, you know, stay home if you can, do everything you can to try to keep the numbers down. This is not the time to relax, OK?

TS: OK: Stay home and don't relax. An easy message for Austinites to take seriously. Except it's now come out that when Mayor Adler recorded that video he himself was not at home — and he was relaxing. He was vacationing in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, following his daughter's wedding. But Austinites can rest easy that their mayor was limiting his social interactions. He flew to Cabo on a private jet. Today, Mayor Adler released another video — safely home from Mexico — to explain himself.

SA: I want you to know that I regret that travel. I wouldn't travel now. I didn't over Thanksgiving. And I won't over Christmas. And no one should. Everyone should be avoiding nonessential travel now because we're in the orange area. Now, I fear that the travel that I did, which took place during a safer period, followed the colour-coded rules, could lead to some taking riskier behaviour now. I recognize that my travel set a bad example. I recognize that the fact that I took that trip, and at the same time, was continuing to urge people to be cautious is confusing. And I know that in my position, I need to send a clearer message. I'm sorry I took that trip.

TS: That was Austin's Mayor Steve Adler apologizing for recording a video last month urging city residents to stay home — while he was vacationing in Mexico.

Part three: Danny Williams Christmas tree, standard not HD study, leaf insect mystery

Danny Williams Christmas tree

Guest: Danny Williams

HM: Mr. Williams, I know there have been some late-breaking developments with regard to your tree, but maybe you could start by telling me why it is that the people of St. John's will not be getting their spirits lifted with that tree?

DANNY WILLIAMS: Well, I'm at a loss to understand that this is the reason because it defies the logic of common sense. But anyway, for some reason this year, they, first of all, stated there was traffic concerns with the tree in the roundabout. Of course, this is a very, very large roundabout. So that's not an issue. Then they came back, and they asked us to apply for a building development permit, which we did, and then came back and said, well, they require a couple of million dollars worth of liability insurance on this tree, which we would be, you know, normally prepared to do. But then they said, even if you do that, you can't light it.

HM: Why couldn’t you light it?

DW: Well, they wouldn't allow us to light it because they're basically saying that this year, it's a distraction for motorists, whereas last year, it wasn't and there were no accidents and there was no complaints. So we’re at a loss to understand why. So we basically offered it. You know, we said we look, we'll deliver it with 3000-plus lights included to whoever would like to have it and, you know, laid up in their community or wherever for Christmas. So we actually had a request from the neighbouring twin city of Mount Pearl, which is just across the street. And tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m., we're going to transport the tree over, lights and all, and it'll brighten up the lives of the people in the city of Mount Pearl instead of St. John.

HM: Meanwhile, the people in Galway are going to be stuck without this tree that was, as you say, was quite lovely last year. Did the city have a point maybe that if there was an accident or the tree were to fall over or something, that taxpayers shouldn't be liable, that insurance would be necessary?

DW: You know, the request for insurance, you know, look, if the tree fell over, but, you know, it did survive 120-kilometre winds last week after we erected it. So it's all engineered to be quite safe, actually, and quite lovely. You know, the irony is, is that all throughout the city of St. John’s, along parkways and major driveways are lights. Along right in front of the Confederation Building, for example, on Confederation Parkway. So the city of St John's is having this, you know, communal tree lighting ceremony tonight at 5:45 AM. Yes, they won't allow lights in Galway. It's too bad. You know, it's been a horrific year for all of us right across this country. And, you know, what we try to do is just bring a little bit of light and warmth and celebration, you know, to end, you know, a bad year. And, you know, I'm disappointed. I really am. But, you know, it has a happy ending. That big tree is is going to go tomorrow and it will go to an adjacent community. And they welcome with open arms.

HM: Am I right in understanding that you actually spent quite a bit of money getting the wiring and such set up so that tree could go there in Galway every year?

DW: Oh, absolutely. Well, even last year, I mean, this tree has to be transported with a boom truck on a flatbed. We had to get the Newfoundland Light and Power to bring, you know, service to this roundabout. So, again, that was done with the consent and the approval of the city of St John's. And, you know, we probably spent close to 20-thousand dollars equipping it and getting it all ready. And of course, now that's abandoned, you know, unless they want us to put a hot tub or something out in the middle.

HM: [both chuckle]Yeah, I think that might be a distraction, too.

DW: That might be a distraction as well.

HM: So Mount Pearl doesn't have the same concerns. Where are they going to put it?

DW: I think actually they're going to put it in a memorial park that they have, St. David’s Park, which is a memorial to a young man who lost his life a few years ago. And so it'll be wonderful. You know, it'll be an open recreational space. And, hopefully, with, you know, good social distancing, and somewhere that can be appreciated then and used throughout the Christmas period.

HM: You're not known as a shrinking violet. When you were premier, you were happy to take on the federal government more than once. Is city hall your target now?

DW: Look, I’m getting too old now to be fighting all the time, [chuckle] so I'm not out there looking for a scrap. I have to be really honest with you. But this one was just, you know, it just defied logic and common sense. There's just no need for it. And it's being put there for all the right reasons. You know, to try and find some regulatory reason to prevent it is beyond comprehension.

HM: So is city hall being kind of a Grinch?

DW: Yeah, that's the word that's been put on the city hall. You know, they called them the Grinch. There’s been bah humbug. There's been all kinds of tags that have been put on over the last couple of days in social media. But, you know, just a word to your listeners, you know, don't judge Newfoundlanders and Labradorians on the basis of one city down there that's kind of got caught up in its own regulations. We're still a warm, friendly, welcoming bunch down here. So we’d like to wish everybody a happy holidays, a very merry Christmas and a very healthy New Year.

HM: Well, as a matter of fact, I saw a tweet that said Mount Pearl saved Christmas.

DW: [laughing] I haven't seen that one yet, but I'm not surprised.

HM: All right. Well, thank you very much for telling us the story and a very happy holiday season to you.

DW: The same to you all the very best to you and your family.

HM: All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.

DW: Take Care. Bye-bye.

TS: Danny Williams is a property developer and former premier of Newfoundland and Labrador. He was in St. John's.

[Music: Instrumental]

Nova Scotia roosters on the loose

TS: A trio of roosters in Nova Scotia have taken "free-range" to a whole new level. The birds were found in the middle of a forest near Hubbards, on the south shore of Nova Scotia. Which is not an ideal environment for a farm animal — with no protection from predators. But the roosters have Justin Rutledge to thank for their survival. He spent more than 12 hours tracking them down, with the help of Hope Swinimer from Hope for Wildlife. Here's they are, telling CBC Halifax all about it, starting with Justin Rutledge.

JUSTIN RUTLEDGE: The first two, actually you could tell their tame birds. Like, they would come right up to eat right out of my hand. The first one, I just kind of reached out and picked him up. Second guy a little bit more wary, so we use the net for that one. And the third one, I think he might be a little bit spooked seeing his friends get caught and he has being very, very hard to catch.

PORTIA CLARK OK, so took off as soon as you tried to get close?

JR: Exactly, yeah.

PC: What condition did the Roosters seem to be in?

JR: When I first found them, they seemed very healthy. Like, I believe they were in the woods for about a week at the time. But before that, they seemed obviously domesticated. They were getting well fed. They were clearly taking care of big, big roosters. But I think as time goes on, they're getting smaller and smaller out there.

PC: As their food supply wasn't so to hand.

JR: Absolutely.

PC OK, how did you first find out about these roosters and that they were in the woods, Justin?

JR: Yeah, we were initially notified by a friend of ours who was hunting down a logging road. He mentioned for the past week or so that he'd been seeing some chickens in the area, which is a little bit strange. I found out the exact location and decided to go take a look for myself. And yeah, I found three very angry roosters back and who gave them free food. And the first time I saw them, I wasn't able to catch them. But I wasn't content to just leave them out there. But I needed a bit of help catching them. So that's why I reached out to Hope for Wildlife.

PC: Right. And Hope, how do you think that these roosters ended up in the woods?

HOPE SWINMER: It's always interesting. I think sometimes people go ahead and get those cute little chicks, not really realizing what they're getting themselves into. And when they realize they're going to have roosters on their hands, they don't know what to do, in all honesty. And maybe, you know, they think that these animals could survive in the wild, but they really can't. They would get preyed upon very quickly or starve to death, one or the other.

PC: And have you seen this before with these domesticated farm roosters ending up in the woods?

HS: Absolutely. It's surprising how many calls we get. And not always that they've been abandoned. But a lot of people call us asking for our help. However, when it's cases like this, it's a bit of a work. They're in the wild, they’re in the woods. We love to be able to help out. We probably had close to 100 calls. We've caught over 22 just in the last year or so.

TS: That was Hope Swinimer and before that, Justin Rutledge speaking with the CBC's Portia Clark. And an update on that story, the third rooster has now been caught.

[Music: Bluegrass]

Standard not HD study

Guest: Adrian Friday

TS: If you stream a nature documentary to watch in high definition, you might actually be doing harm to the planet you're looking at. You might even consider switching to standard definition. That's according to a new report released today on digital technology and climate change from the UK's Royal Society. Among its recommendations is a counterintuitive suggestion that we should be watching videos in lower quality. Adrian Friday is an author of the report., He's a professor of computing and sustainability at Lancaster University. We reached him in Lancaster, England.

HM: Professor Friday. If I decide to watch a favourite show in high definition tonight instead of standard definition, what impact will that decision have?

ADRIAN FRIDAY: Well, it depends a lot on where you get your energy from to run the things that you're going to use to watch it. So I think some data suggests that if you watch a 4K film over 4G on your mobile phone for a couple of hours, that's probably about the same energy as boiling a kettle for a cup of tea. Very British thing to say. Whereas if you were watching it on, say, a 50-inch TV, it would be less than half that. So choice of device, choice of which network it's using to get you your data would make a little bit of difference. But I think the real question is, you know, are you doing that instead of getting in your car and driving to the cinema to see the same show? So if you've replaced the car trip with the Internet, the Internet is much, much lower. So it's actually something not to worry too much about.

HM: But it's the phone that seems to be the issue?

AF: I don't know how much you know about how the technology works, but there's obviously energy used by the device you watch it on. Then there's energy used by let’s say you have a Wi-Fi network in your home or broadband and so on. Then it connects to the Internet, and then it goes off to some data centre somewhere, which is shipping that movie content to you. And each of those is going to be using energy as it goes. And then, depending on where you get that energy that's connected to a certain amount of carbon intensity, you know, are you burning fossil fuels to generate that? And you're not. And a colleague was telling me earlier, actually, that Canada has a lot of hydro, which is a clean energy source. So actually, in Canada, you've probably got a lower impact than if you watch that in a part of the world where there's much more coal being burnt to generate the electricity.

HM: What is it about high definition TV, though, that requires so much more energy than standard?

AF: So basically, the more resolution we demand, so the more pixels we have across our screen, the bigger the amount of data you have to ship for each frame of video. So every time we've upgraded our quality, we've upgraded the amount of data we use and the amount of storage we require and the amount we have to ship across the networks and the bigger the data centres have to be for that. So high definition was twice the resolution of standard definition. So that's sort of four times the data. And I think we also upped the number of pictures per second as well. And then 4K is double again. And then 8K, if we go there, would be double the resolution and therefore, you know, another multi multiplier on that.

HM: So what percentage of devices do you believe are running HD right now?

AF: I'm not sure I have a figure for that. But I mean, HD has almost been... I think all the televisions we're selling now are more likely for 4K already. So I think we've already gone to ultra-HD. But I think the the big thing people don't really talk about is when we change technology, we always have to build all those new TV's. We have to extend our data centres. We have to extend the Internet. So there's quite a big sort of energy cost with all the equipment we require every time we move up a step in terms of quality. And I suppose one of the things this reporter is asking is can we think about the impact technology is having when we do that and design them to be lower impact or maybe even work out, you know, have we done enough?

HM: And yet, the people manufacturing these devices seem to build in the obsolescence and encourage us that we're going to have to get something better the next time around.

AF: Absolutely. Absolutely. So it's absolutely an arms race where they're trying to tempt us to buy the next product. And, of course, the way they've traditionally done that and say, well, you know, it's even better quality than the previous generation. And I think it's a battle now, whether my eyes give out before the resolution. You know, once you get to sort of these ultra high definition levels, the picture quality is so great. You know, I think I've reached my ceiling. I expect there's other people in that situation as well.

HM: In practical terms, if I wanted to reduce the footprint I was having when I was streaming, what should I do?

AF: So I think if you're one of the people who likes to have video on the background for music and you're not watching the picture, then switch off the picture. You most of the data's in the video, not the audio. I think if you could get people together in the household to watch something together, so you're watching one stream instead of multiple streams. But I really think this is a question of what this is replacing? I mean, if you're spending the time doing this rather than travelling around the car or flying somewhere, you know, it is still a quite a low impact activity, really.

HM: Or people who just listen to the radio. [laughing]

AF: I love the radio. I'm a huge fan of the radio.

HM: So are we.

AF: Well, yeah, that makes good sense.

HM: You know, in terms of the companies themselves, the streaming giants like Netflix, what could they do to help with this?

AF: Yeah, well, they can help us quite a lot. I think a number of them are making pledges to be net-zero or even net-positive. So in the case of something like Netflix, I think they can look at the energy they're using and try and use renewable sources. I think they could be much better disclosure around the impact they're having in terms of energy and the amount of equipment they're getting through. I think as app developers, they can make the defaults not to be the highest quality. So when millions of people are watching things, you know, you get a good enough level, but not always the max quality. And then on aggregate, that would have quite a big effect on reducing demand on the overall network.

HM: Right, so it'd be, you know, like you opt-out or opt-in if you want the HD.

AF: Yeah, so the analogy I like to use is sort of organ donation. You know, if you make it opt-in, less people do. If people have to opt-out, then by default, you end up in a certain position. And I think it's the same here, really, if by default, it sort of works its way up the quality levels rather than starting with the ultra-high definition and working down, then, you know, just the sheer number of streams which would have an effect because it wouldn't require so much infrastructure.

HM: Well, Professor Friday, it's given us something to think about. Thank you so much.

AF: Wonderful. Thank you for having me on the show.

HM: All right. Bye-bye.

AF: Bye-bye now.

TS: Adrian Friday is a professor of computing and sustainability at Lancaster University. He spoke to us from Lancaster, England.

[Music: Pop]

Leaf Insect Mystery

Guest: Julia Mlynarek

TS: There are many mysteries in the insect world. Take, for instance, a strange species of stick insect that was only ever found as a male. For more than a century, its seemingly single-sex nature puzzled entomologists. Where were its female counterparts? How did it reproduce? But then, researchers at the Montreal Insectarium hatched two of these stick insects from the eggs of a female bug — that looked nothing like the male stick insect. Julia Mlynarek is an entomologist at the Insectarium. We reached her in Montreal.

HM: Julia, can you start by describing these two groups of insects and how different do they appear?

JULIA MLYNAREKL: They appear very differently. The males tend to look more like sticks or kind of rolled leaves. So they're very long and elongated, and they have wings, whereas the females look a lot more like leaves that are a bit eaten on the sides and come in different colours from green to orange and yellows. And there are a lot larger, and they're a lot flatter looking. So they actually mimic leaves a lot more.

HM: And as I understand it, the females don't fly, but the males do?

JM: Yes, absolutely right.

HM: So why haven't scientists been as puzzled by the female-only leaf insect as they were by the male-only stick insect?

JM: Well, the females in insects, especially in the stick insect, some species are parthenogenetic, so they are able to lay eggs even if they haven't mated with the male, whereas the males, they can't lay eggs. And so that was a really big mystery.

HM: So how did the team at the Insectarium determine that these two apparently different insects were actually the same species?

JM: Well, it's a story of luck, experience and really good knowledge of insects. So, Stéphane Le Tirant, the leader of the entomologist at the Insectarium. He received a batch of 13 eggs and they took really great care to hatch these eggs as low as possible. It took several months to be able to hatch these eggs. And once they hatched, they started rearing them to adulthood, giving them different leaves to eat. And once they started growing up, they noticed that some of them looked a lot more like sticks, where some of them started looking more like, you know, the thicker leaves that they were expecting because they were expecting the leaved females. And so through Stéphane knowledge of stick insects, right away, he noticed that these really resemble a completely different genus. And so they knew that these are actually the same thing and not a different species.

HM: Now, Stefan, as you say, was the head of the study, I guess the program. He didn't want to speak to us because he didn't feel comfortable speaking to us in English. But do you have a sense of what that aha moment was like for him?

JM: Oh, absolutely. I mean, as biologists, we get these aha moments once in a while, but this one must have been way more exciting than anything else because you just see these different things and it's just kind of a surprise and excitement and it must have been completely wonderful to be able to see that kind of thing and have that discovery of something that was unknown for, you know, more than 100 years.

HM: And as you said, it came after several months of nurturing these little tiny nymphs. What's involved in raising these things?

JM: Well, first of all, you have to figure out the right humidity levels and the right temperature to raise them so that these nymphs don't die. You have to make sure you don't manipulate them too much because, you know, it can add stress and so with stress they can die as well. Feeding, what leaves do they eat? What would they like to eat? Because these species are not from North America. They're, you know, from Papua New Guinea. And so can we give some of the plants that they eat, you know, that we have here? Can we feed them to these insects and will they survive and be happy on it?

HM: What did you feed them?

JM: So we fed them quite a few things, like some gouam leaves. And there's some leaves that we have in our greenhouses as well. So mostly gouam and Oak as well, because some stick insects eat oak leaves, especially the native ones.

HM: And we know gouam as guava.

JM: Some of us.

HM: OK, now even with all that care, though, only five of these 13 eggs ultimately hatched.

JM: Yes, yeah, because it happens. In nature, insects tend to lay a lot of eggs and not all of them hatch. So, actually hatching five out of 13 is not a bad ratio.

HM: You said you tried not to manipulate them too much, handling them very gently. Are other insects usually treated so tenderly there?

JM: No, no, no [chuckling]. The special ones are treated, especially the ones that we don't have experience with. They are treated very gently because we don't know what we can do and what we can’t do with them. But once we get more comfortable with the species and we learn their limits, then we can actually start doing different things with them.

HBM: Why do you think it's taken more than a century to solve this mystery? I mean, why hasn't this observation been made somewhere before?

JM: Well, leaf insects and stick insects are so cryptic in nature because the females don't fly. They tend to sort of stick around the leaf, but the males tend to fly a bit more. So they may not be found in the same areas. I mean, ecologically, this group is not very well known because as again, as I said, they're very difficult to observe in nature because they're high up in the trees in a remote place of the world.

HM: And, of course, there's that extraordinary camouflage. We have pictures we're putting on the website for the show. How difficult are they to spot?

JM: Oh, they're extremely difficult to spot. I mean, Stéphane was saying he went on a trip to Malaysia and he said that if he didn't have a guide helping him look for these insects, he would have never found one. But he found one by beating a tree and then it fell into the net. And so they can actually see what it looks like. So they’re extremely hard to find.

HM: Yeah, they look like leaves and sticks basically.

JM: Yeah.

HM: So what's the significance of this discovery in the entomology world?

JM: Well, I mean, first of all, it’s just a very cool story to be able to sort of link the males and the females together. It also helps out with species identification. So now that we know what they look like, we can go back through all the collections that we have to be able to actually identify everything. And then for the entire conservation, we can actually see what these species will look like. And there's a whole bunch of natural history questions that can be answered and ecological questions that can be answered now that we know what these species actually look like.

HM: That's very exciting. Thank you so much.

JM: Yeah, thank you.

HM: Bye.

JM: Bye.

TS: Julia Mlynarke is an entomologist at the Montreal Insectarium. That's where we reached her. To see photos of the insects, visit our website, at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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December 05, 2020 Episode Transcript

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