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The AIH Transcript for November 30, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Beg, borrow, and heal. Canada's finance minister asks Canadians to hold tight as the pandemic fight sends her government ever deeper into debt.

CH: Insult to injury. BC's former child advocate says her investigation into the province's health care system found widespread discrimination against Indigenous people with potentially deadly consequences.

CO: Crash recourse. A pro racer says she was amazed to see a driver emerge from a fiery crash that engulfed him in flames and split his car in two. And she says it's a sign of how far the sport has come.

CH: They suited him and it suited him. His voice was dubbed over in the Star Wars films, but the late Dave Prowse gave Darth Vader his towering physical presence, and his co-stars are remembering him as a force for good.

CO: Novel approach. If you want to stand out as a first time author, you might want to take a page from our guests book or from a thousand of his books, because that's where he hid a mysterious story that he hand wrote one word at a time.

CH: And poins for perseverance. Most people who pick up a potted poinsettia around now ditched post-holiday season and our guest is one of those people, but her husband is not. And now the plant is too big to get out of their house. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that suspects he saw it as a growth opportunity.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: How a controversial safety device saved Romain Grosjean's life in brutal F1 crash

Fiscal update

Guest: Don Drummond

CH: The Trudeau government is taking Canada deeper into debt. In Ottawa today, the finance minister delivered her fourth fiscal update. Chrystia Freeland described a pandemic fight that's forcing her government to borrow like none before. And Minister Freeland promised that when the pandemic is done, her government will borrow tens of billions more to get the economy back on its feet.

CHRYSTIA FREELAND: We will do whatever it takes to help Canadians stay healthy, safe, and solvent. We will invest in every necessary public health measure, and we will support Canadian families and Canadian businesses in a deliberate, prudent and effective way.

CH: That was Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland delivering the government's fiscal update in the House of Commons this afternoon. Pierre Poilievre, the Conservative finance critic, was not impressed.

PIERRE POILIEVRE: While Conservatives supported the CERB, the small business loans, the wage subsidies -- those account for less than half of that record smashing deficit. In fact, we've gone from a debt to GDP ratio of 30 percent to 56 percent. Now, within view of the default levels that we hit in the 1990s, when Liberals were forced to slash health care to deal with a massive debt crisis that existed at that time. We are not at the cliff or even on the edge of the cliff, but we can now see the cliff and this government is running towards it as quickly as humanly possible.

CH: Conservative finance critic Pierre Poilievre. Don Drummond was at the Department of Finance during the deficit slashing budgets of the 1990s. Mr. Drummond is also a former TD Bank chief economist. We reached him in Manotick, Ontario.

CO: Mr. Drummond, if anyone knows what a fiscal cliff looks like, it has to be you. Are we headed there?

DON DRUMMOND: Well, it's interesting. We're doing policy by stealth. So we had this summer, the prime minister spoke on a number of occasions about big, expensive, long-run initiatives. Many of them were listed in the speech from the throne. And then we kind of thought, well, we're not going to get them in the update, we're going to get a focus on the short term. But they're kind of creeping in and some of them are installment payments and some are to come later. So I don't know really, because the government hasn't really told us. So in this update, we're a little bit over 50 percent debt GDP ratio -- in my day 1995-1996, the peak of the so-called crises, we were at 66.8 percent. So we're not there yet. And of course, interest rates were much higher then. The government, despite all this debt is still able to borrow money. So I don't really see a cliff in the moment, but I'm not sure. I described it, we're heading into a fiscal fog. [Laughs] I just don't know if there is a cliff in that fog or not.

CO: Well, that's probably more dangerous -- to heading toward a cliff if you're in a fog. But of course, what Mr. Poilievre is referring to when he talks about the Liberals slashing in the 1990s, you were in the midst of that. So how different is this situation that we're headed to? This actually record deficit and very large debt package. How close are we to the kind of mess we were in the 1990s?

DD: Well, in one aspect and the key aspect of it is a world of difference. So at its peak in the mid-1990s, one third of every revenue dollar a Canadian sent Ottawa got allocated to pay interest on the public debt. So in terms of meeting people's needs or health care and education, that's just money put in a fireplace and burned. You know, we would always remark every time the members of parliament went for a spring break or went back home, they're saying everybody's saying they're not getting their money's worth of Ottawa. So guess what? They're not. They're getting two thirds of the dollar back on every dollar. The interest costs are less than 10 cents on the dollar right now. So most of the money, because the extraordinary low interest rates are going to interest to pay for programs. The question will always be the case. And at the moment it would appear so. We've had extraordinary low interest rates since 2008. But we do know from history they tend to go up and down. At some point they'll go up. So again, that's part of the fog -- what will happen in the interest rates. And do you get caught at some point building up that much debt and then subsequently interest rates do go up?

CO: The parliamentary budget officer said in September, late September, that the federal debt levels are sustainable through the middle of the decade. And beyond that, it does get into fog and cliffs. But what we heard today, this announcement, it's not what we heard in the summer -- there was going to be this opportunity, as Mr. Trudeau said, to reset the economy, reset our country's path. They're talking about 70 to 100 billion dollars over three years of stimulus spending that will only begin after the vaccination program is completed and people are back. Does that seem unreasonable?

DD: Well, yes and no. But it comes back to this point about it seems to be a little bit of policy by stealth because, yes, this is not unveiling the kind of big initiatives that he was talking about. But many of the programs they said were candidates for the 70 to 100 are kind of down payments on those policies. And you're not going to start a better child care program and then end it after three years. I forget the election after that one. If you introduce some of these, if you introduce, for example, something that's close to a basic income, you're not going to just end it. And so it would be very interesting just what is put in that 70 to 100 and just how temporary you could make it. It's one thing to introduce a program, but everybody starts to scream if it's working well and you take it away. Easier said than done.

CO: Does it appear, though, that Chrystia Freeland is capable of pulling back of not -- when she sees that cliff and the fog that she says, okay, let's just hold back here, we'll put it what she's called a kind of down payment on these kinds of programs and initiatives the Liberals have been talking about and all this from speeches? So, I mean, do you have confidence in her is what, I guess, I'm asking you?

DD: So I don't even like to think about that question. I'm kind of naive on this thing. I want a democratic process. The mandate that got elected was to get the debt to GDP ratio should be on the 30 percent. That's out the window. And I think we need a national debate on what kind of fiscal future do we want? What are the prospects or tax increases to finance, what kind of risk we're putting ourselves into? And each one of these initiatives needs a major debate. We have 5 to 13 percent of Canadians that have a financial [inaudible] prescriptions. You don't necessarily need a national pharma care program to deal with that. We have an income support program largely of working age adults. We kind of have a guaranteed income for seniors and families with children already. We don't necessarily need the whole basic income. And I'm saying yes, I'm not saying no. I just think Canadians should have the information and have that deabte. We don't have that debate on our future economic fiscal and we're not having that debate on these big initiatives either. It just feels odd. It feels like policy by stealth.

CO: Right. But it does feel like deferment that they're pushing this or kicking it further down the field -- if I can use another metaphor. But she does say, Chrystia Freeland, that the government's immediate priority is to do whatever it takes to help Canadians and businesses stay safe and solvent. Does that seem prudent to you?

DD: Yeah, it absolutely seems prudent. And there was a comment after her speech of two weeks ago that she rebutted an argument nobody made because she was making the argument, I categorically reject the call to swing the austerity and nobody is saying that. Everybody is saying you absolutely must support the economy and Canadians through this very difficult time. And that will last for a while obviously. What I'm really talking about is what happens afterwards. There's even a point where young people should have debated this, if we lock in the debt to GDP ratio at this 55 percent, we're effectively saying the entire cost of dealing with COVID will be wrapped up, put in a box, put a ribbon around it and pass it on to the next generation. Again, I think that's something that people should weigh in to decide if that's what they want or should we take care of that ourselves.

CO: And just quickly, you don't think it's possible that after this nightmare is over, that that 56 percent can go back down to 30 percent because people will be out spending they'll take all that money out of their mattress that they've been stashing there, they'll be back at work, that there will be an economic recovery?

DD: Well, first of all, it would take a long time to get back there. And in fact, unless you run very large budget surpluses and governments are absolutely allergic to running budget surpluses, you would not get there before the mid-2030s. But secondly, if we lock in this level of higher spending, again, I come back to the 70 to 100, a lot of that is down payment. You might not necessarily pull that back. If you ratchet up spending to that degree, no, you're not going to come back to that debt burden at all. It will more likely stay in that 50 percent range, not as high as the mid-1990s, but definitely inviting some risk.

CO: We will leave it there. Mr. Drummond, thank you.

DD: Okay. You're welcome.

CH: Don Drummond is a former TD Bank chief economist. We reached him in Manotick, Ontario.

[Music]

F1 race crash

Guest: Alice Powell

CH: What you're about to hear is part of the announcer's call at the Bahrain Grand Prix on Sunday.

ANNOUNCER: Bottas has lost four places already as they file their way through. Lance Stroll going off the track already. Is that damage? That's certainly damage and a big fire there. As they exit out of turn three. And that looks very nasty indeed. And unsurprisingly, that is a red flag that has been put out by race control already. That was horrendous as the car went into the barrier.

CH: That driver is lucky to be alive. The horrific crash happened early in the race when Roman Grosjean lost control of his car, sending him speeding into a barrier which split in two and also split his car into. That alone could have killed him. But then the car burst into flames. Mr. Grosjean was engulfed for about 20 seconds. Miraculously, he walked away from the crash with relatively minor injuries. His survival is being credited to a device called a halo. Alice Powell is a professional driver who watched the race. We reached her in Bourton-on-the-Water, England.

CO: Alice this crash on the weekend was spectacular to see. Have you ever seen anything like that?

ALICE POWELL: Out of all the years I've been watching racing and, you know, 27 years old, I've watched racing pretty much most of my life -- I've never seen anything as shocking as this incident that we saw over the weekend. You know, Roman Grosjean squaring off into the barrier, his car being engulfed in flames. And he was so lucky to get out of that car with only minor, but it was absolutely incredible. It's such a shocking incident.

CO: How fast was he going when he hit the barrier?

AP: He probably would have been going easily over a hundred, maybe 160 and 170 miles an hour, possibly. You know, it was 53 G, that's a hefty impact to make into a metal barrier. And obviously, he didn't have much time to react because the car literally burst into flames when it made contact.

CO: And what kind of injuries did he have?

AP: So Roman has suffered some minor burns to his hands and feet. They thought that he possibly had some broken ribs, but I believe that he hasn't. But obviously, those minor burns are still significant that he's not really able to drive the final two races of the season. He's actually going to be, I believe, out of hospital tomorrow, so that's fantastic. You know, after being engulfed in flames for nearly 20 seconds to be out of hospital, that quickly is great. And it just shows the safety of Formula One and how far it has come, you know, over the years.

CO: It really is extraordinary because there are three things that could have killed him, that have killed drivers in the past. One, as you mentioned, he went through the barrier, pierced it. The car split in two and it caught fire. I mean, any one of those things could have been the end of him, but he survived all them. And people say he was just very lucky. But also, there were some devices that were quite extraordinary. Can you tell us about this Halo safety device that is credited with actually saving his life?

AP: Yeah, the halo is, you could say, like a piece of metal that goes at the top of the car. So as you look at Formula One car, it's where the driver is sat -- sort of above their head. It looks like the top of a flip flop where it goes in between your big toe or kick and bones -- someone has referred to it, that wraps around and meets in the middle of the car so directly in the driver's eye line. So, for example, using Roman's crash, when he went into the barrier, the barrier pierced, but the pierced part of the barrier didn't actually go into his head, as horrific as that sound, it could have easily happened. The halo made contact. It kind of scooped the car slightly underneath that pierced part of the barrier and saved his life effectively.

CO: I understand that a number of drivers did not want to have the halo installed. They were against it, including Roman Grosjean himself. So what persuaded you and other drivers to actually take on the halo?

AP: It was just understanding that the safety side of things. So how important driver safety and the crashes like Jules Bianchi, Maria de Villota, who both had hefty incidents in a Formula One car and unfortunately that took their lives. So if they had the Halo present at that time, they probably would both still be here today. The reason why a lot of people didn't really like the Halo, and I was one of them at first 00 I just thought it was a bit ugly. You know, I just thought the single seater, the Formula One car is a single seater where your head is exposed. Shouldn't really look like that. They should not have anything like that. They have never had anything like that. So kind of why now? But once I learn about it and realize, you know, that it can save lives and it definitely saved not just Charles Leclerc, he had an incident a couple of years ago where a car came across and made contact with the halo, which would have ended up being potentially his head. And now, obviously, this incident with Roman Grosjean as well, you know, it saved their lives.

CO: And why did the car split in two?

AP: I believe the car split in two, possibly because the angle that Roman went into the barrier, it stopped with such force that the car just whipped around and it split in two. I mean, the investigations will go on for many weeks and months into why that car ended up being two and obviously bursting into flames as well.

CO: Okay, bursting into flames. So how did he escape that? He was in those flames for, you say, 20 seconds before he emerged and got out of the car and got to those who could help him. So how was that possible? What was the safety gear that he had in that regard?

AP: So every driver that races in race cars has to wear fireproof. So you have fireproof socks, you have fireproof, I guess you can say, pajamas, very tight pajamas that go underneath your suit, boots, helmet, gloves, balaclava, everything that you wear is fireproof. And the suit can usually withstand up to anything, I believe, 20 seconds of fire resistance and the gloves around about 10. So that's a long time. But obviously, Roman was in there for a good 18 to 20 seconds. So he somehow and I have no idea how he managed to feel his way out, he stepped in and out of that car many times this year so he would know. You have a test at the start of the season, you have to get out of the car within eight seconds for situations like this. And that's exactly what he did. It took him a lot longer, but I can imagine that it was very difficult for him to see because he was just engulfed in flames. So everyone across there that was at the circuit, including Roman himself, did a fantastic job. And, you know, the heroes really were the medical team and the marshals there trying to assist him.

CO: A number of people have said that this shows that F1 racing is far safer than it used to be. Would you concur with that?

AP: I would 100 percent agree. If you look back even when Formula One began in the 50s, 60s, 70s, even up to obviously in the 90s, there's still things to improve. It doesn't matter how safe the car is travelling at high speeds, it's never going to be 100 percent safe. The FIA have done a great job in making these safety improvements. For example, the Halo -- Roman being saved, he was saved by the halo.

CO: And many have said there was an element of luck. Would you agree with that?

AP: I think in any accident, if you survive, you're going to have an element of luck somewhere along the line, don't you think?

CO: There is a guardian angel somewhere.

AP: 100 percent there.

CO: Alice it is good to talk to you. Thank you.

AP: Thank you.

CH: Alice Powell is a professional race car driver. She was in Bourton-on-the-Water, England. You can find more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Monolith

CH: When we told you about it on Friday, it was there, I swear, and so did our guest. But now the monolith that mysteriously appeared in the wilds of Utah has slightly less mysteriously disappeared. According to the state's Bureau of Land Management, the shining silver structure that they noted had been illegally installed was illegally uninstalled late on Friday by an unknown party. And based on evidence found at the scene, that unknown party may have done some unknown partying while removing it. It also appears that the culprits were earthlings, although that's exactly how smart aliens would make it look, no doubt. But right now, all we know for sure is that the monolith is gona-lith.

[Music]

Perennial poinsettia

Guest: Joanne Hill

CH: Poinsettias are known for a few things. There's the perennial poinsettia-poinsettia debate. It's the second one. There's the annual panic that they're poisonous, which they're not, although they don't taste good and they might make you a little queasy, but that's true of most fruitcakes. And, of course, they're festive. The poinsettia's red on green colouring has made it the potted plant of choice for Christmas, which means that sometime early in the new year, it's also the potted plant of choice for the garbage. Unless you're Joanne Hill, whose purchase of a little poinsettia a couple of years ago has led to a really giant poinsettia. We reached Joanne Hill in Montreal.

CO: Joanne, can you describe the poinsettia you have right now?

JOANNE HILL: It is three years old, it'll be the third year. I don't really know the measurement. My husband is really into the girth, and the growth. But he is six foot one, six foot two -- and he stood up and it was on a little stand, so I would say it's almost five feet.

CO: What did it look like when you first got it three years ago?

JH: It was. And I can't say the word that I'm not supposed to say. So I'm using a new word. It looks like a Charlie Brown Christmas tree. It was very sort of sad. It needed some water and it cost me five dollars. And I brought it to my husband and we weren't even married then. And I said, we'll, put it on the table. And I figure, you know, it's a throwaway plant -- at the end of the season, it'll be thrown out. And then he put it outside in the summer and it came back in. And the year after it was like a bit bigger than a basketball and it changed colour. Then it went outside. And now that is has been inside, it has changed colour. And he's now very very excited. He's going to try and take out the patio door to put it back out in the summer.

CO: Your husband obviously has quite the green thumb then?

JH: Yes. And I don't. I don't touch it. All I know is like the cat can't go near it, the dog can't go near it. And any plants -- like we're eating tomatoes from the garden, he's got plants growing all over the place. And when he goes out of town for business, I don't touch them. In non-COVID times his mom comes down and takes care of them.

CO: You can't touch it. What has he told you about the reasons why you shouldn't touch the plant?

JH: I'd kill them.

CO: Oh. [Laughs] I thought it was because they were supposed to be a bit poisonous, but...

JH: No, I killed a cactus at work and I [inaudible] it the same day as the other girl. And then all this gel started coming out of it and it died. So I figure it's not my forte. You know, I have other things that I'm better at.

CO: So your husband thinks one of the reasons why this plant is doing so well is because you're not allowed to go near it?

JH: Exactly. [Laughs] You know, I bought it -- but the thing is, it's so natural to him. Like he doesn't do anything special -- he put it outside. I think he said to me, because I called him before to make sure, he put a little bit of Miracle-Gro, he watered it when he watered it, he brought it back in and then it turned red again and then put it back outside in the summer and changed the pot. Obviously, he re-potted it and it keeps growing. I think it's just a challenge to him. It just comes naturally. There's some people it can, you know, have that way about them. And I'm not one of those people.

CO: Well, just out of curiosity, what is the word you used to describe it but you can't now?

JH: You're going to make me say it, aren't you?

CO: Yes.

JH: Crappy.

CO: Oh, okay.

JH: I said I went to a specific store that I'm not going to say because I'm probably banned for life. I said I went to the store and I picked up a little five dollar crappy plant because it was half dead. It was outside. It was cold. And I brought it home and I put it on the table, figuring probably like a lot of people, you're going to throw this thing out after the holidays, you know, like it's done. And no, he kept it and it flourished.

CO: And so now the fact that you call it a crappy plant, was that part of the reason why he thought you shouldn't be allowed near it?

JH: Well, when I brought it over, I said here, you know, here's a plant for the table. And, you know, it did -- it looked very sad. The leaves were wilting and stuff. And, you know, I was on a budget, you know, [laughs] so I figured, five bucks is my budget. And I figured it'll look nice on the table. Now I just have no -- it's not that I don't like the plant, they're all over the place, he's got stuff growing -- I'm just not good with them.

CO: Okay, but in fairness to you, it sounds like you've got a poinsettia bush now in your room. How much of the room does it take up?

JH: Well, right now it's down in the basement because with a cat and a dog -- it's supposedly not very good for the cat. Whenever we put the Christmas tree up downstairs, it is sitting on a little table, so it is just a bit shorter than six foot. So I figure, you know, I'm going to go get some lights and I'll put some lights on it.

CO: Now, do you think there will ever come a time that you'll put your poinsettia out on the street like everybody else does?

JH: If he has his way, no. Because now that this happened, he said like I said, he wants to take the patio door out and have his nephew, who brought it in with him before it froze, to put it back out. And he says, I'm going to try to get it bigger. You know, he says, I like to see things grow. And I said, just don't touch me because, you know, COVID and gaining weight, I just don't want to go there. [Laughter]

CO: All right. Yes, a cautionary tale of who and what he should touch if he has that ability to grow things. Joanne it's great fun to speak with you. Thank you.

JH: No problem.

CH: Joanne Hill lives with her husband, Mike Doehl, and their enormous poinsettia in Montreal.

[Music]

Part 2: B.C. health care racism report

B.C. health care racism report

Guest: Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond

CH: Today, British Columbia's health minister, Adrian Dix, issued what he called an unequivocal apology. He was speaking to Indigenous people who've experienced racism while accessing health care. Mr. Dix's apology comes after the release of a report by Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond. It's called In Plain Sight -- addressing Indigenous specific racism and discrimination in B.C. Health Care. Ms. Turpel-Lafond is a former judge and provincial child advocate in B.C. She did a month’s long review prompted by allegations that some hospital staff in B.C. were playing a game where they guessed the blood alcohol level of Indigenous patients. We reached Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond in Victoria.

CO: Ms. Turpel-Lafond, you have titled your report In Plain Sight. Why did you call it that?

MARY ELLEN TURPEL-LAFOND: I called it In Plain Sight because the racism and prejudice that exists in the health care system in British Columbia was fairly obvious and apparent when I started to do the examination. And I think it was obvious and apparent to many people for years without properly identifying it or simply ignoring it and not actioning changes needed to address it.

CO: So it was apparent before you began which led you to speak to thousands of people. What did they tell? What did you learn that is the depth of that racism and discrimination in the BC health care system?

MARY ELLEN TURPEL-LAFOND: Yeah, I had the privilege of engaging with more than 9000 people and looking at about 600 specific cases from that and got a chance to look at it at all places where there's a point of care, whether it's hospitals, doctors, clinics, dentists, psychologists, what have you. And what I found was that there is rampant prejudice and stereotyping against Indigenous people and that it causes interactions that are discriminatory, which in turn leads to poor outcomes and experiences of health care, and then leads to significant issues around Indigenous people avoiding care because the care that they've received has been so culturally unsafe and frankly riddled often by discrimination and racism.

CO: It's interesting the way you take that in the report, because it's not just the experience of racism and discrimination. It's the effect of it, isn't it? It is the outcome for their health, the willingness to go into the health care system when you need it. What kinds of stories? Give us a sense of some of the things people told you.

MARY ELLEN TURPEL-LAFOND: You know, I had a 50 year old woman who was very scared. She had COVID. She went to hospital to get a COVID test. She did do survival sex work in her younger years. She had some really chronic health conditions. She went in to get a COVID test. She says, look, I'm really scared. She has some really negative interactions in the emergency room, ended up being sectioned under the Mental Health Act, taken to another hospital to the mental health unit where they said, well, actually, she's just really scared of COVID. And then they released her. So she never actually got a covert test, but she got a whole bunch of prejudicial attitudes and beliefs and behaviours along the way. So I saw that kind of story, where it's magnified by the pandemic. And I saw a lot of stories where people were just treated in an abusive and inappropriate way and the discrimination was direct and personal. And it wasn't just directed at patients. It was also discrimination against Indigenous people who work in the health care system, who are nurses and doctors and lab techs and food service workers. And they experienced at 52 percent that I engaged with, and there's a lot of them, have experienced direct personal racism, which means they don't enjoy a safe, collegial environment to work in. And that was really disturbing to me.

CO: You quoted one Indigenous doctor who said that he was asked to look after, "His drunk relatives in the ER" or asked, when they had Indigenous patients, that they were reassigned to him in the wards when he was a resident. How common were things like that among those who were actually working in the hospitals and the healthcare system?

MARY ELLEN TURPEL-LAFOND: It's incredibly common. I have another Indigenous doctor a woman, who's got a specialty that's quite rare and she's practicing. And, you know, she described how the supervising physician on her unit would frequently come by and pat her on the head and say, "You're our little Indian." And that's just their personal racism. But then also this idea, prevalent idea, that First Nations or Metis people are drunk or drug seeking alcoholics and therefore that prejudice colours the care or says, you know, you're more experienced dealing with the drunks and alcoholics because they are your family, so you should be taking care of them. I mean, the racism and prejudice -- the attitude itself is so problematic. And then behind it, the treatment of the Indigenous health professionals. And I did find that Indigenous health professionals working in the system experience, even career limiting racism, meaning in their own careers, they can't continue to work in that situation or rise professionally along a normal kind of path that we'd expect like people to do. So this really troubles me because workers need to be treated well. You know, these are people who are giving important service, they shouldn't feel this sting of this racism, but sadly, it is everywhere and it has affected them.

CO: You were tasked with doing this report after there were stories, accusations that health care professionals inside the system were playing a game that they called The Price is Right where they would guess the blood alcohol level of Indigenous people who are coming in for service. Were you able to confirm that game was being played?

MARY ELLEN TURPEL-LAFOND: I found episodes of game playing about the blood alcohol level and at different places and times, I did not find an organized game called The Price Is Right with prizes and so forth. I didn't find it to the degree of organization that the initial allegation may have presented. I found it more episodic. But along the path of the investigation, sort of where it was found, if you like, what we investigated and reviewed, there were a couple of places like hospital points of care, emergency room points of care that really kind of took that issue apart, shut it down and did some big work. So there's no question it circulated in places, but it wasn't a game. And frankly, you know, where I sit today, I almost wish I would have found something that's a game that happens away from patients, even though it's offensive. But what I found instead was direct, abusive, and offensive interactions with patients and colleagues. So, you know, the game is not there. But what is there is actually much more pernicious than some sort of game that happens away from the point of care. It's actually interactions that are like not culturally safe and reflect widespread racism and discrimination against Indigenous people in health care in BC.

CO: We will leave it there. Mr. Turpel-Lafond thank you.

MARY ELLEN TURPEL-LAFOND: Thank you very much.

CH: Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond is BC's former children and youth representative. Her independent report into anti-Indigenous racism in BC's health care system was released today. She was in Victoria.

[Music]

Dave Prowse

CH: Darth Vader is known arguably for one thing, above all.

DARTH VADER: Where are those transmissions you intercepted? What have you done with those plans?

MAN: [Struggling to speak] We intercepted the transmission, this is a consular ship. We're on a diplomatic mission.

DARTH VADER: If this is a council ship, where is the ambassador? Commander, tear this ship apart until you find those plans and bring the passengers. I want them alive!

CH: That, of course, was James Earl Jones voicing the original Star Wars archvillain. But before Mr. Jones ever stepped into a sound studio with George Lucas, Dave Prowse stepped into Darth Vader's mask and cape. And his six foot six frame gave the Jedi turned Sith Lord a physical presence unlike any other. Dave Prowse died this weekend. He was 85. And had his own voice remained in those first films, they would have sounded very different.

DAVE PROWSE: Tear these ships apart until you find those tapes, find the passengers. I want them alive.

CH: Now, Mr. Prowse was undoubtedly massively intimidating. He was also from Bristol, England. But according to the actor himself, it wasn't his accent that prompted the dubbing. It was that clunky mask. Dave Prowse spoke with the BBC's Tanya Beckett in 2013 about how things transpired and how he got the job in the first place.

DAVE PROWSE: My agent rang me up and said, there's a gentleman in town called George Lucas who would very much like to see you. And so he was actually ensconced in the 20th Century Fox offices in Soho. And I went up to see him and meet up with him. And he took me into a room and showed me all these conceptual drawings and then said, I'd like to offer you one of two parts in this movie I'm doing. And I said, well, what are the two parts? And he said, well, the first one is a character called Chewbacca. And I said, What in the hell is Chewbacca? And he said, it's like a hairy gorilla that goes through the film on the side of the good. I thought, Oh God three months in gorilla skin? No, thank you very much. And I said, what's the other one? He said, well, the other one's a character called Darth Vader, who's the big villain of the film, you see. And I said, don't say anymore George, I'll have the villain's part. And he said, well, tell me why. And I said, if you think back on all the movies that you've ever seen where there are good guys and bad guys, I said, you always remember the bad guy, you see. And he said Dave said, I think you've made a very wise decision because nobody will ever forget Darth Vader.

TANYA BECKETT: What was it like being inside that costume? It is looking pretty heavy to me. Must be pretty sweaty inside there.

DAVE PROWSE: It was quite comfortable, actually. It was quite nice. The only problem we had was, all my dialogue was coming through the mask and it was not really any good from as far as reproduction was concerned. And I kept on saying to George, you know, what are we going to do about the voice? Because obviously everything sounds a bit muffled on the creases it were or the people that we were filming with. And he said, oh, no, don't worry, so we'll go into the sound studios at the end of the shooting and we'll rerecord all your dialogue. I thought this is okay. And anyway, they got to the end of the movie, chase back to America because they couldn't get all the special effects that they wanted in the UK. And then of course, when they were in America, it was then too late for them to come to get me all the way over to America to overdub my lines. And they got James Earl Jones, who was a great choice.

CH: James Earl Jones may have been a great choice, but so was Dave Prowse. Thanks to him it's certainly true that no one has ever forgotten Darth Vader and no one will forget Mr. Prowse any time soon either. In a statement today, George Lucas said "He made Vader leap off the page and onto the big screen with an imposing performance to match the intensity and undercurrent of Vader's presence." And for his part, Luke Skywalker actor Mark Hamill is remembering him as a kind man and a man who was much more than Darth Vader. As Mr. Hamill wrote, "He was an actor who loved his fans as much as they loved him." Actor Dave Prowse has died at the age of 85.

[Music]

One word books

Guest: Will Maclean

CH: For a debut novelist Will Maclean, seeing his book in print was a long time coming. And having celebrated British bookseller, Goldsboro Book signed on to sell 1000 exclusive signed editions made it extra special. So Mr. Maclean decided to do something to make the occasion extra special for his readers too. When he signed those thousand copies of his novel, The Apparition Phase, he added something else in each one: a single numbered word. Assembled in order, those thousand words make up a short story that can only be told if Mr. Maclean's readers work together to crack it. We reached Will Maclean in London, England.

CO: Will, what on earth inspired this idea?

WILL MACLEAN: This came out of a love of books, really, more than anything else. To go to book club, pick a book of the month, when they do a special edition of a thousand. As soon as I learned they were going to be numbered, that sort of stayed with me. And I thought, what would make this as special as possible for those people is getting this edition of the book? And eventually the idea just came to walking home. The kind of thing that I -- it's one of the things that as a person who loves books, I think it's just one of those things that if I'd read about it, I'd go, that's a great idea. I do love hearing about those kind of things. You know, the sort of literary puzzles. Either I'm going to do or someone else is. Once you've thought of those things, it's only a matter of time, I think.

CO: It is difficult enough to get your first novel published, then to get into the Goldsboro editions. And so they've gone out a thousand copies of The Apparition Phase, your novel, around the world. So who will be able to assemble all the 1000 words into one story?

WC: Honestly I thought it would take years, but within, you know, three weeks of publication, there's a woman whose Twitter handle is "Loved Reading This" who took it upon herself to start this. It's down to her that it's blown up as big as it has, really. She's sort of taken the ball and run with it. So she's asking around and tweeting and she's on Instagram and Twitter and she's making sure that people are aware and it's just picked up from there.

CO: And how many of the words has she been able to get hold of?

WC: At the last count, I think, it's about 150, which is not bad going for I think less than a week. And all the editions haven't reached their owners yet. So she's done a very good job of getting the word out.

CO: Okay, 150, but not necessarily in order. This could be 6, 12, 590. So she's got all these random words.

WC: There are three words in order so far. But as it goes on, there will be more. I was saying earlier, I think it'll be the tipping point where you can start to guess some of the words and there'll be less need to find the 'ands' and the 'buts.'

CO: One of the challenges, the extra challenges that you put out to all your readers was that they can't read your writing -- your handwriting.

WC: [Laughs] Yeah, that's me not paying attention in school. You know what? Somebody said on Twitter, I don't know what this is. And I had to say that is what 'and' looks like when you've signed 938 books in three hours. So it was a question of when we did it, signing it, numbering it as well, and then writing the word in. And we had a sort of conveyor belt going of me doing that and a very big checklist of the words which I checked thoroughly the night before.

CO: Now, what if got it all messed up and no one can ever get...

WC: [Chuckles] There's a possibility that may have happened, but I think it's remote. I was up till 3 a.m. the night before checking the list and making sure that -- I understood there was a possibility that this would attract attention. And what you don't want it to be is you don't want to attract attention and being the guy who messed it up. [Laughs] So, you know, it would be another selling point, I would imagine that the, you know, worst of this thing you'd invented, but hopefully it's all in the right order.

CO: Now, who gets the punctuation? How will they know where the stops and starts are?

WC: That's an interesting question. There's a couple in that I put in there because I couldn't help myself. But mostly I think there's going to be times whoever stitches it together, just to make an extra challenge.

CO: Why do you think people might be interested in this?

WC: Because I think people like puzzles. I was delighted that people responded to this in the way that I wanted them to. Had I only been tasked with coming up with a piece of cynical PR or a publicity stunt, I don't think I'd have been able to do that. Whereas this just came naturally out of spending a lot of time in second hand bookshops and looking at first editions of things and just to seeing how beautiful they are. Because the physical edition was so special, it's so beautiful, you know, it's a lovely book. There was a real opportunity to give it a little extra shove.

CO: People really do, though, like these puzzles and things. We just did an interview recently about a decades old puzzle for a novel that you had to reassemble all the pages. And people spent just months trying to make this work -- years, many of them so changed.

WC: Is this Cain's Jawbone you're talking about?

CO: Yes.

WC: My friend John Finnemore is a comedy writer, was the one who solved it.

CO: We spoke with him.

WC: Oh, brilliant. That's great. It's delightful to see that he was the one who solved it.

CO: He did tell us that one of the reasons -- he wouldn't have done it had he not had so much time on his hands because of COVID. And so maybe that's probably one of the reasons why people like this -- they just want something interesting to do, don't they?

WC: Yeah, they do. And I really sympathize with them. And I have to say that John is very clever so he probably would have been able to solve it quickly anyway. But yeah, I think people love those. And, you know, it's a benign noise thing and we haven't had many of those yet.

CO: Your novel, The Apparition Phase is a ghost story. Is this short story a ghost story as well?

WC: It is -- obliquely, it is, yes. That is all I can sa. I did disclose earlier today that it's written by one of the main characters.

CO: Oh, this is a clue. And can you tell us even the title of the short story?

WC: No. [Laughs] The title is in the first line. It just gives away who's written it. I'm sure it will turn up fairly soon. There's a couple of extra hints and clues in there that will clear up some points in the novel. But the novel is a standalone thing, you can read it without reading the story. But a couple of things have cleared and a couple of things that made it a little more obscure as a result of this story.

CO: It sounds like a lot of fun. Will it's great to talk to you. Thanks.

WC: Thank you so much Carol.

CH: Will Maclean is the author of The Apparition Phase. We reached him in London.

[Music]

Izzy McQueen

CH: It's not just going to be a tough year for Santa. It's already a tough year for one of his elves as well. For more than 30 years, 88 year old Izzy McQueen of Kamloops, B.C., has been helping respond to all the letters Santa receives. But now Canada Post has told her that it's time for her to pass on that responsibility, which Ms. McQueen finds disappointing. Here she is sharing some of her memories.

IZZY MCQUEEN: Would you believe it? I got a phone call on my answering machine that my services were no longer required, that the heritage would be taking over. I mean, I enjoyed it. I really did. And it started out with Bob Douma 34 years ago. I went to a Lions meeting. He was the postmaster then up there. He asked his guys if they would do the letters and they all said, no, it's Christmas time, it's a busy time of year. And so he said, well, Izzy would you take it back to your Lions Club? And I took it back and the girl said, oh, Izzy -- they said, it's Christmas time, it's busy. So I thought, what the heck, I'll do it. And so that's the way it started. And I got maybe 250 letters the first year and then it just escalated. And one year I got 3000 letters. It was so interesting, the letters that you get from the children and the grandmas that send me letters, you know, saying, would you send a letter to my grandchild. And then a grandson, he wrote and he said, would you send my grandma a letter? So I did. And then I sent to the grandchildren and if they had questions, we answered them. Sometimes there was a question there that I had to stop and think like, "How can you travel all night?" And then I'd say, you have to believe in magic. And then I get them from the Japanese students that were here. And then when they go back home, they sent me letters. The biggest thrill was when the Duke and Duchess sent me a picture of them and their family. Oh, man everybody was so excited because here it was, Queen Elizabeth, the ER on the envelope. When they got married, I said to the girls, I said, you know what? If they have children, I'm going to send them a Santa letter. And I got a couple answers. So it was really neat.

SHELLEY JOYCE: Well, what is next for you Izzy? What will you do next?

IZZY MCQUEEN: Well, I'm 88 years old. [Laughs] I think I better retire.

CH: That was Izzy McQueen speaking with the CBC's Shellye Joyce in Kamloops. Canada Post sent this statement to our colleagues, "We thank Izzy McQueen for the time she volunteered to help Santa Claus respond to his letters. The power of this program is in helping to keep the magic of Santa alive for children of all ages. So we don't talk about the behind the scenes operations. And only Canada Post employees and retirees can serve as postal elves to ensure every child receives Santa's response.".

[Music]

Part 3: This Ottawa PhD student creates viruses for the forces of good

Nigeria civilian massacre

Guest: Mohammed Ndume

CH: It was a scene of almost unimaginable horror. On Saturday, dozens of farmers in northeast Nigeria were rounded up and killed. It's suspected the massacre was perpetrated by the Islamist militant group Boko Haram. It happened after locals arrested a member of that group who was trying to extort money from them. Even though they turned him over to Nigerian authorities, federal security forces were unable to protect the farmers. Mohammed Ndume is a senator from Borno State where the massacre took place. We reached him today in Abuja, Nigeria.

CO: Senator Ndume, you were meeting today with families of the farmers who were killed. Can you describe what they're going through right now?

MOHAMMED NDUME: Well, I can describe it as very horrible. But the consoling thing about it is that our poor people believe so much in destiny and God and therefore everybody says "Inna Lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un" -- that is to say it is from God that we come and to him we shall return. That is the common parlance in place. Otherwise, losing over 43 people at the same time and, you know, struggling to make their life is horrible. It's very very gruesome. The killing was gruesome. It was a very horrible firing. And people are just trying to live to through reality, the horrific. We buried 43 of them day before yesterday. That's two days ago.

CO: Can you just tell us what you understand happened, how these farmers, 43 farmers, came to be killed on Saturday?

MN: Well, it was a kind of retaliation, the normal, you know, hit and run, guerrilla warfare from the Boko Haram. The stories I'm getting was that one of them tried to attack an area and the people gathered and overwhelmed him and then handed him over to the security. And then the Boko Haram came in retaliation and then started going after each farmer in his farm, tying him to his back and cutting his head off and putting the head on the body.

CO: Good heavens. And just to remind people Boko Haram is a terrorist organization that has been -- we remember them from having abducted those schoolgirls. They have been terrorizing the northern part of the country for some time. What was behind massacring so many people on the weekend?

MN: Well, we have been battling with the insurgency, as you rightly said, from 2009 to date. It's about 11 years now. And any time we think the situation is improving, then it springs up again and it degenerates further. What has happened two days ago, it was something that we never thought would happen. Losing so many lives, at the same time, the highest number that we ever had was, I think, 30 or so. It was only in 2014 where that we had such a massacre of a large number of people. Even though before now we have been losing people in the farm lands, isolated cases, you know, about continuously and from time to time, this is what we have been living with in the north, particularly in the Borno state. And as you said, the large part of it was the abduction of the girls in Chibok in 2014. And intermittently, they kidnaped people. We still have some people in their custody. And half of the girls were yet to be recovered. So this is what we are dealing with since 2009.

CO: And people are understandably quite terrified of Boko Haram. So what led these community members, the farmers, to take action and arrest this particular Boko Haram member?

MN: Well, that is what I said. It was an incident that we assume that would lead to that. The Boko Haram member was arrested and handed over by the community to the authorities, and the Boko Haram came back in large numbers to commit these atrocities. That is what actually happened.

CO: But the Boko Haram were trying to extort money from these farmers, some kind of bribe, is that right?

MN: Yeah, that is what they have been doing now. Farmers are not allowed to go to their farm unless they pledge their loyalty to Boko Haram and pay them a certain amount of money. This is what is happening all over in the northeast and even in the northwest where the bandits are operating, it's the same thing. They charge from a certain fee if they have to go to their farm and harvest their farm produce. And farmers that do not pay, get punished. Or some of them get their farm produce bombed or destroyed.

CO: Do you think that security forces -- is it that they cannot or will not step in against Boko Haram and protect people?

MN: I think the government needs to do more. They need to stand up. They need to have a timeline. They need to give the security they need to stand up to get this insurgency, completely defeat it and destroy it.

CO: Nigeria, I'm sure it needs its farmers and farm workers to go into their fields, to harvest crops, to feed people. So how can people be expected to go and work their fields if they're living with this kind of a threat?

MN: Well, the government needs to know what is going on now and make sure that adequate security is provided to the farmers to get their farm produce harvested and back to where they live. In fact, government should come in, especially the federal government, because the state resources is so meager and they can't deal with that. Provide the necessary security, provide the necessary equipment or implements that they need to harvest their products. And then also to make sure that they take the fight to Boko Haram and not live in the community at the mercy of them being repaired. That is what we hear most of the time. It is high time. The government stands up and tries to draw a timeline to say, look, before so and so period, we must get this thing done and we can do it. Nigeria has the capacity to do it.

CO: It's just a horrible story. Senator Ndume thank you very much for speaking with us tonight.

MN: You're welcome.

CH: Mohammed Ndume is a senator from Nigeria's Borno state, where on Saturday dozens of farmers were massacred by suspected Boko Haram militants. We reached Mr. Ndume in Abuja, Nigeria.

[Music]

Indigenous innovation prize

Guest: Taylor Jamieson-Datzkiw

CH: Mid pandemic, it is easy to assume any story involving the word virus is bad news. But for Taylor Jamieson-Datzkiw, viruses are filled with potential, specifically the potential to help treat aggressive forms of cancer in humans eventually. Ms. Jamieson-Datzkiw is a Metis medical student at the University of Ottawa and the winner of a Mitacs Prize for Innovation. She took home the award last week for research that's still in its very early stages in the lab, an impressive feat for someone still in the very early stages of her career. We reached Taylor Jamieson-Datzkiw in Ottawa.

CO: Taylor, as you know, viruses don't exactly have a great reputation right now. So what made you think that you could actually use them to try to treat cancer?

TAYLOR JAMIESON-DATZKIW: You're absolutely right about that [chuckles] viruses have bit of a bad rap right now. But we've actually been working with a lot of different viruses to come up with therapy for cancers for many years now. And the really cool thing about it is that they actually leave your healthy cells unharmed and specifically home into the cancer cells because the cancer cells are not very good at fighting off viral infections.

CO: But why don't they attack the healthy cells? I mean, how is it that you could introduce virus cells into a body that will go after the cancer cells and not hurt the healthy cells of the person?

TAYLOR JAMIESON-DATZKIW: So there's a few different things you can do. There are some viruses where we're kind of using receptors or using markers that are present more so on cancer cells and healthy cells, so they'll only enter the cancer cells. But more often than not, we're actually using viruses that can actually enter healthy cells. But the cool thing is that when cancer cells kind of go through all of the genetic changes necessary to become cancer and to be able to grow very quickly and without the control that a healthy cell has, they kind of give up the ability to fight off viruses so the virus can enter a healthy cell and it can enter cancer cell. But when a healthy cell is infected, it knows what to do and it knows how to stop that infection. But those pathways are kind of eliminated in cancer cells.

CO: So what do the virus cells do once they've entered the cancer cells?

TAYLOR JAMIESON-DATZKIW: So they can do a lot of different things. Some of the cancer cells, they'll die because there's so much viral replication happening that ends up just inherently killing the cancer cells. But then there's also other things that we can deliver within the virus, so we can genetically manipulate the virus to deliver other things to the cancer cells. So we can either deliver different types of proteins and things that will make a cancer cell die. What the virus is that I actually use are manipulating the cancer cell at a genetic level to sensitize them to drug treatments. So we're kind of targeting a certain gene within the cancer cell and knocking it down to make it more sensitive to drug treatment.

CO: And so you looked at this way of using the viruses in particular to help treat aggressive breast and ovarian cancers. And so how successful have you been? What are your results so far?

TAYLOR JAMIESON-DATZKIW: So far, I mean, we're pretty early in the stages for these particular viruses. I'm only a couple of years into my Ph.D., so things are still pretty early. It's a pretty long road to reach human trials. But if I'm able to kind of show that things are working really well in mice, then at least I kind of have some hope that it can go a bit further.

CO: It's a pretty aggressive thing to do. Is this something that is a kind of front line treatment or is this something when you've exhausted all the possibilities that this might be a likely route to take?

TAYLOR JAMIESON-DATZKIW: That's a really good question. So far, viruses are not what you would call standard of care. So they're not like the first type of treatment that you would give a patient. But honestly, I think it's just because they're so new, it takes very very long time to develop a therapy, to make sure that it's working, to make sure that it's safe, all those things. So in my personal opinion, I think that viruses can have the potential to become a standard of care. It's just going to kind of take time to work out all of the kinks. But I think that there is hope that it can become standard of care.

CO: Do you think that in becoming standard of care might be one of the barrier is the attitude people might have, 'You're not going to put a virus into me, that's not going to work?' Do you think that you'll meet resistance at that level?

TAYLOR JAMIESON-DATZKIW: I think it's definitely a potential for resistance and it's not helping that we're currently in a pandemic that's caused by a virus right now. But I think that if we're able to show in these clinical studies that, you know, the virus really is safe and we're able to have conversations like this where scientists are able to kind of talk to the community and say, hey, this is why the virus is safe for your healthy cells and why it's going to harm your cancer cells and just really try to just educate people on what their treatment is and let them kind of make that decision.

CO: How much does it help your conversation and putting this idea out in the public that you have won this terrific award, the Mitacs Award for Indigenous Innovation?

TAYLOR JAMIESON-DATZKIW: I'm very thankful and very humbled to have won this award. I didn't honestly realize how important this award was until everybody started congratulating me on it and I didn't really know. But it means a lot to me as a grad student. You know, the day to day grind of grad school is not easy, but it kind of let me see the perspective of the bigger picture of all the people that hopefully these very small steps in the lab are going to be able to help eventually.

CO: Well, I know you're originally from Winnipeg and you have Metis roots. And so it's always great to win an award and to have your work recognized. But what does it mean to you to win a prize in the Indigenous innovation category? Does that have a special meaning for you?

TAYLOR JAMIESON-DATZKIW: It definitely does. I'm very thankful that Mitacs actually included that category. And they're really kind of recognizing that it's not just about the research that you do, but it's also about who you are, where you come from, and kind of where you stand in the community. So I really really appreciate that. Being involved in your community is just such an important part of Indigenous culture. So being able to say, yeah, the research that I do is very important and very relevant, but also I'm being recognized for being a mentor in the Indigenous community and I'm able to kind of stand up as a leader and hopefully inspire younger people to get into science and get interested, things like that. I'm really excited that Mitacs included this category.

CO: And you're still a student, you're not even a doctor yet, and you're already on the world stage doing extraordinary things. And I think we're going to hear a lot from you and about you. Taylor, it's great to speak with you. Thank you.

TAYLOR JAMIESON-DATZKIW: Yeah. Thank you so much.

CH: Taylor Jamieson-Datzkiw is an MD PhD student at the University of Ottawa and the winner of the 2020 Mitacs Award for Outstanding Innovation Indigenous. We reached her in Ottawa. And for more on this story, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Ideas Promo

CH: On Ideas tonight, the story behind ever increasing and unrealistic beauty standards for women. Feminine beauty isn't just something we value, it's become a stand in for moral character.

VOICE 1: Increasingly now we think that our bodies are ourselves. So when we make New Year's resolutions, they're nearly always about improving the body. So if only we were thinner, firmer, smoother, younger, then we'd be better. We'd have a better relationship, we'd have a better career, we'd be happier. And no matter what else we're good at, increasingly we have to be good at beauty or we consider ourselves to have failed. If you look at the language that is involved in beauty, you talk about letting yourself go, talk about being worth it, you deserve it. So moral language is increasingly embedded in the language we use when we talk about appearance, and increasingly we mean it morally. So it's not just a linguistic turn. It really is telling us something about what matters, that we do feel good about ourselves when we lose that weight or go to the gym and we feel bad when we don't.

CH: How beauty ideals have morphed into ethical ideals. That's tonight on Ideas with Nahlah Ayed after As It Happens.

[Music]

Flowbee

CH: It's okay if you doubted us when you first heard the story. In May, we told you that people under lockdown were so desperate for a haircut that demand for the Flowbee was surging online. Now, it's hard to imagine why anyone would think it's a good idea to cut their hair with the 90s gadget, which is basically just hair clippers attached to a vacuum cleaner. But it's even harder to imagine that George Clooney has been doing it for years.

GEORGE CLOONEY: And years ago, I bought a thing called a Flowbee which when we did when I was a kid.

VOICE 1: The infomercial, the Flowbee?

GEORGE CLOONEY: It comes with a vacuum cleaner and the clippers. I still have it.

VOICE 1: Stop it. You don't use it.

GEORGE CLOONEY: My haircuts take literally two minutes ago.

VOICE 1: Is this Flowbee?

GEORGE CLOONEY: Yes, Flowbee.

VOICE 1: That is awesome.

GEORGE CLOONEY: [Laughs] Yeah. Listen man, it works.

CH: Actor and People magazine's former sexiest man alive, George Clooney on CBS Sunday Morning yesterday, admitting or claiming that he has been cutting his own hair with a Flowbee for years now. The Flowbee might be good enough for a silver fox like Mr. Clooney, but Tom McKay still has doubts. In May, Carol spoke with the Gizmodo writer after he tracked down a Flowbee at the height of its lockdown popularity to give it a test drive.

CO: Tom, some people might remember the As-Seen-On-TV commercial of the 1990s, which featured the Flowbee. But for those who don't, can you tell us what it is?

TOM MCKAY: Sure. So the Flowbee was invented by a California man named Rick Hunts. And basically what it is, is it is a set of pretty big clippers that has a hose attached to it. And you can just plug it into any vacuum that’s modular. Basically, the operating principle of it is it's like clippers, except you also turn on the vacuum at the same time, and it sucks all the hair down the tube and prevents from creating a mess. And the suction, supposedly, you know, it allows you to get an easier mid-length cut because it pulls the hair up and there’s spacers so that you can adjust it to the length that you want.

CO: Okay.

TM: At least, that's how it's supposed to work in principle.

CO: What inspired you to check out the Flowbee?

TM: Well, you know, like a lot of people right now, we've been under social distancing orders for a while. So impossible to get a real haircut right now. And I am a huge idiot, who did not actually get a haircut for like two and a half months before that even started. So I really needed a haircut. And for some reason, the infomercial just popped into my head one day, and I was like, huh, you know what? I could try that out.

CO: How did you even get your hands on one? I mean, since the lockdown, the Flowbee has made a big comeback. And it's a very hot item to get. It’s on backorder. [chuckling] How did you get your mitts on a Flowbee?

TM: Well, we lucked out. Because, as you said, it is completely sold out on the website. There's none on Amazon. There's a bunch on eBay, but they're running for hundreds and hundreds of dollars. We really lucked out because there was a man in Virginia, Antonio, who was listing it for 80 bucks. And we were able to just, I think the same day he listed, tried to scoop it up before someone else could. [CO cuckles] And yeah.

CO: Okay. So you got a hold of your Flowbee. You had a vacuum cleaner, I presume?

TM: Yeah.

CO: Okay, how did it go? Walk us through your haircut?

TM: Okay. So the first thing that you’re going to notice about the Flowbee is that with the vacuum also on, it's extremely loud. And the clippers are very large and unwieldy. And so it's kind of terrifying because it feels like you're going to cut off your ear. So what you do basically is you stack the spacers, and you put it on top. Any you bunny hop around, trying to get the hair to a certain length. And, you know, it worked well on top. And it sort of worked okay on the sides. What I found was that the further towards the back of my head it got, the worse the job it did. There's like an angled attachment that I don't think works very well at all. It was responsible for like totally destroying the back side of my head hair. You know, it would work better if you had an assistant or somebody to help you with it.

CO: RIght.

TM: But it occurred to me that at that point, why wouldn't you just go with clippers?

CO: [chuckling] Okay, so it's sucking the hair up, right? You get it pulled into the vacuum cleaner, and then the clippers do their work. And I guess kind of feather it. It's not just a lop off of a big chunk. It's actually trying to do a bit like what a barber would do?

TM: It takes off a fair amount at a time. I mean, it sucked up an ungodly amount of hair. I didn't even know I had that much. [CO chuckles] And, you know, without complaint. It's just that it's not very... There's not a lot of finesse to using it. I guess maybe if you were a Flowbee expert there would. But I think it's mostly just if you want to get rid of your hair and you don't have many other options, it does really just like it just like ravages your head. I mean, there's a reason that, and I guess it was also the ‘80s, but if you look at all the advertising in the commercials for it, everyone kind of has like a mullet [ both laughing]. And I think that's why.

CO: Because they're using the Flowbee?

TM: Yeah.

CO: [chuckling] Okay. Now, but actually when you think of it though, people only need the front of their hair cut properly anyways, right? It's kind of the same principle that you can wear your pyjama bottoms or even your underwear now and just put your suit jacket on top and be in your Zoom meeting, right? So you don't really have to have the back of your head even cut?

TM: You know, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, if you just wanted to cut off enough to look presentable on like a webcam meeting or something, you could pass it off as having a real haircut.

CO: [softly chuckling] Okay, just before we let you go, I understand you do have your Flowbee close by, plugged-in ready to go. Do you want to just rev it up and give us a little taste? And let that sweet sound just take us out?

TM: Sure thing. One sec.

[Sound: The Flowbee sounds pretty much like what you’d expect a vacuum-powered hair trimmer to sound like. It really sucks!]

TM: [CO chuckles] As you can hear, it sounds like it's going to kill you [laughing].

CO: Thank you very much [laughing].

TM: No problem.

CO: All right. Good talking to you. Take care.

TM: All right. Thank you, Carol. Have a great one.

CO: Bye, Tom.

TM: Bye.

CH: From May, that was Carol speaking with Gizmodo writer Tom McKay about the Flowbee. Yesterday, Hollywood actor George Clooney admitted that he's been using the 90s home hair cutting gadget for years, long before the pandemic gave it a second life. We've reposted our story on the Flowbee on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Beavers

CH: Things were kind of a shambles on the Honeycut estate in England's Exmoor National Park. The whole ecosystem was out of whack. So earlier this year, the National Trust brought in some ecosystem engineers, who surveyed the situation, assessed the problems, and immediately made their plan clear: they would start eating the trees. These particular engineers only ever bring that one solution to any wilderness problem. But that is why are you hire beavers in the first place, plus which they work fast and despite being hunted to extinction in Britain 400 years ago, they don't hold a grudge. These beavers were brought in from Scotland in January and now they've built the first beaver dam in the Exmoor area since the 16th century. The instant wetland at the dam created is already attracting all kinds of wildlife that had disappeared. As the project manager with the National Trust says, as we face the effects of climate change and more frequent extreme weather events, natural interventions like this need to be part of the solution. Now, no one loves beavers more than Canadians. But plenty of Canadians will tell you that in their lives, beavers are more often part of the problem. But apparently the old continent simply has more genteel mannerily beavers. As Allan Bantick, chairman of the Scottish Beaver Trail Steering Group, told Carol in 2008.

CO: A lot of people consider, like in this country the beavers are regarded as destructive, that they rearrange the land and water, don't they? I mean, they are the people that are opposed to this in Scotland?

ALLAN BANTICK: Not particularly because the European beaver, for all that it is very similar in size and general appearance to the Canadian beaver, it is actually a different animal and its habits are different. So it fells trees on a small scale and only in winter. It also only builds dams if it absolutely has to. So basically, it lives in a burrow in the side of the river or the side of the lake, and it's pretty unobtrusive. In most cases, you wouldn't even know there were beavers around.

CO: Are you saying that our beavers are building dams just for dam sake?

ALLAN BANTICK: Well, I'm no expert on Canadian beavers, but it appears to the casual observer that their presence is much more obtrusive in the landscape than that happens in Europe.

CO: How did you end up having a kinder, gentler beaver in Europe?

ALLAN BANTICK: [Laughs] Wasn't that clever of us?

CO: Well, it just seems so European, doesn't it?

ALLAN BANTICK: It does indeed. [Laughs]

CH: From our archives, Carol speaking with Allan Bantick, chairman of the Scottish Beaver Trail Steering Group in 2008.

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November 30, 2020 Episode Transcript

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