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The AIH Transcript for November 26, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Alternate reality. The Ontario government says the auditor general got her facts wrong in a report on pandemic failures, which she says is surprising because she checked her facts with the Ontario government.

CH: Fill the pews. The U.S. Supreme Court says New York State's COVID-19 restrictions violated religious freedoms. But an Orthodox Jewish journalist says that's mostly a symbolic victory because his community isn't heeding restrictions anyway.

CO: A dose of criticism. Critics raise concerns about how Oxford and AstraZeneca rolled out early results from their COVID-19 vaccine trial, a process our guest refers to as science by press release.

CH: Off kilter. A Scottish bagpiper says wearing a kilt is too often an excuse for audience members to crack unwelcome jokes, take unwanted pictures and even grope him while he's trying to play.

CO: The buck stops here. An Ontario coin store owner winds down his long standing tradition of handing out one dollar bills as tips because an imminent ban on their use will put an end to his single mindedness.

CH: And for him, the situation really is black and white. A German restaurant owner stages a punning lockdown protest by filming his establishment with plush pandas, as in panda-mic. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that thinks surrounding your tables with toy bears feels a little like panda-ring.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Ontario auditor stands by report on COVID response as Ford government pushes back

Ontario AG

Guest: Bonnie Lysyk

CH: Ontario's health minister has picked a fight with Ontario's auditor general. Last night, Christine Elliott came on As It Happens to defend her government after the auditor general released a stinging report about Ontario's response to the coronavirus pandemic. The report described, "delays, conflicts and confusion." Carol asked the minister who was responsible and she said this.

CHRISTINE ELLIOTT: Well, while I respect the auditor general very much and I know that her report contained some recommendations respecting some systemic issues. There are also some factual inaccuracies that we tried to have resolved before the report was released. So some of the comments made by the auditor general, specifically the issues you just mentioned, we do not agree with.

CH: That was Ontario's health minister, Christine Elliot on As It Happens last night. Bonnie Lysyk is Ontario's auditor general. We reached her in Toronto.

CO: Ms. Lysyk, Christine Elliot says you got your facts wrong. How do you respond?

BONNIE LYSYK: You know, our report was vetted for factual accuracy by Ontario Health, the public health unit, Ontario Public Health, the ministry. And it was cleared for factual accuracy. In fact, the Ministry of Health and all the others provided responses to our recommendations and they accepted the recommendations. And those are included within our report. So I'm, you know, confident that the work is accurate. The recommendations were accepted. It was all done in the spirit of going forward and working together. So we're happy with the final report.

CO: Christine Elliott says in response to the report that her government reacted to the pandemic quickly, effectively, and she said that Ontario outperformed other jurisdictions in Canada and in the United States. What did you find?

BL: We found that when the pandemic hit Ontario, there were a lot of systemic issues that hadn't been addressed for many years. For instance, the public health I.T. system wasn't working as well as it should have to allow for effective case management, contact tracing. The lab system was manual input into the system and those two computer systems weren't integrated. So therefore, when people were tested and the information had to be determined at the lab, that process delays the communication with people that had COVID.

CO: What did you conclude about the problems with the command structure in Ontario?

BL: So every province has emergency management centre, emergency management operations, and there is like, you know, emergency plans and pandemic plans. And so the other provinces had updated their plans and were able to sort of, you know, with the flick of a switch go into the mode where roles and responsibilities are determined, reporting relationships, communication, all that structure, so in the case of an emergency, those systems are able to be used. Ontario's plans hadn't been updated for a number of years. And so the health command table was set up. But the secretary of cabinet had to contract with an external organization to develop a plan, you know, a structure and organizational structure for the whole of government approach. So that took you know -- the declaration of the emergency was around March 17th. The contractor was contracted with at the end of the month. And then the first meeting using that framework was around April 11th. So having to set up a process, delayed everybody kind of being in their in their roles and responsibilities right away.

CO: And what you said of how it was set up, you said it was overly cumbersome and that, in fact, the central coordination table had a large number of political people at it and not much of a health command.

BL: Well, the health response table was chaired by the deputy minister of health. And when she wasn't chairing, it was the CEO of Ontario Health. The CMO was a member of that group, along with a couple of people from Public Health Ontario. But what we heard from people is over the course of several months, the number of people that were dialing in, they were doing this through teleconference. And that occurred from the beginning of the pandemic right until the beginning of July. And, you know, there were different people on the line, different voices. There was confusion around who was talking, whether, you know, the person that was talking was the one with the expertize.

CO: If I can characterize a large part of what you're saying in the report, you can tell me if this is fair: but it seems that what you're saying is that the Ford government's response was more political than public health. Is that fair?

BL: Well, I think, you know, what happened is when they didn't have the, you know, emergency response plan, they hired somebody to put a structure in. And the structure is one more of advice versus command and control like you would see in an emergency response plan. And so it just worked out the way where you would have a health response table giving advice to this coordination table, which then would give advice to the premier and cabinet. Now, premier and cabinet, I mean, they can make decisions -- there's no problem with that, you know elected officials. I think, were some of the confusion lay is if when the public health or the health command table would make recommendations up and it wasn't followed, the participants just wanted to know why their recommendations weren't accepted.

CO: Okay, I guess my question is, was it more political than public health in the way the Ford government approached this?

BL: The final decisions were ultimately government decisions. Advice was provided up from Public Health Ontario. But, you know, we did see that there was some advice that wasn't fully implemented. I mean, I think the decision to require all visitors to long term care homes, to have a negative COVID test every two weeks. Public Health Ontario and the testing group specialists, experts advise against that. You know, the test is as good as the day you get the test and it gives you a sense of false confidence that it's actually a test that's good for two weeks. So that was one case where they provided advice and it wasn't followed.

CO: Well, the most important thing is, do you think the people of Ontario are well served during this crisis by their government?

BL: I think this is a time when everybody needs to pull together. And, you know, I think tolerance is important. But I think learning from the past is very important to take forward. I think the fair thing to say here is people tried their best and now learn from some of the past and go forward and we'll get through this, right?

CO: Are people in Ontario well served by this government during this crisis?

BL: You know, I think it's not my place to, you know, convey an opinion to everybody...

CO: No, it's not an opinion like everybody else. You've written a very, very strong report, a very damning report in many respects. So what can you actually tell people? This is what they want to know, not that you and the premier disagree on things. They want to know if they're well served in this province.

BL: And I'd say, you know, our reports are now posted on the website. We have a summary, one pager, that people can look at and they can, you know, I think form their own opinion. And, you know, if they have opinions on what they see needed to be done, I mean the government is here to listen to the people.

CO: We'll leave it there Ms. Lysyk. Thank you.

BL: Thank you.

CH: Bonnie Lysyk is Ontario's auditor general. She was in Toronto. You can find more on that story on our website, including last night's interview with Christina Elliott, the Ontario Health Minister. Just go to: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Oxford AstraZeneca issues

Guest: David Salisbury

CH: On Monday, the head of the University of Oxford's COVID-19 vaccine group said his team was really pleased with preliminary results of its trial with the pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca, which meant all of us were really pleased. But as more has come out about that trial, that pleasure has turned to displeasure, including details about a dose that was at first given in error. David Salisbury is an associate fellow with the Global Health Program at the think tank Chatham House. He's also the former director of immunization at the UK's Department of Health. We reached him near Oxford, England.

CO: Dr. Salisbury, what's the problem with the way that AstraZeneca and Oxford have rolled out these preliminary results of their vaccine this week?

DAVID SALISBURY: I think the problem for all of us is getting our head around what the numbers are about, because we've heard that the vaccine has 60 percent efficacy if you got two doses the same, and it protects 90 percent of the recipients, if you had a low dose for the first dose and a high dose for the second dose, and then people have been averaging the numbers and saying the efficacy is 70 percent. But the 70 percent doesn't really mean anything because nobody got a vaccine that had 70 percent efficacy. And we don't know what dose that might be. So it's either 60 or 90.

CO: Okay, so this is a bit confusing because of this half dose thing you mentioned. And the company is calling this a kind of an accident, it was kind of serendipity that some of the people in the test were given a lower dose regimen for one part of it. So maybe if you can explain in layman's terms what it is that has led them to have this new understanding of how effective their vaccine is, if it's a lower dose?

DS: Well, I think it's confusing to everybody because, how did it come about? And we don't really know how it came about that a manufacturer issued a vaccine to use in a clinical trial where normally everything is really tightly controlled and some people were getting the wrong amount of virus in the vaccine. So I don't think there's been an explanation of how that happened or indeed why it happened. But what we've got is the consequence of it having happened. And it leaves us with pretty difficult questions still to answer about what the product will be that will go into use and what evidence there is for it. So the evidence is obviously stronger for the high dose, high dose because there's a lot of people in that study, but that leaves you at 62 percent efficacy. And there's fewer people in the low dose, high dose study and no over 55. So we've got good efficacy at 90 percent. But still important questions to answer, like how robust are the statistics for the 90 percent? And then if you were going to use that product at low dose, high dose, have they got manufacturing data or have they got all of the normal quality data to be able to go ahead and do that?

CO: An AstraZeneca executive has said that this mistake of the dosage is irrelevant. He told The Wall Street Journal that even if you just look at the full dose that people had, in that group, that was over 60 percent. So everything's peachy. So how do you respond to that?

DS: I think that causes people problems because we know that there are already vaccines that have come in at 90 percent plus efficacy. And you've got to explain to people why you're going to give them a much lower efficacy vaccine. Now, I accept that this vaccine has some great advantages in terms of it's much cheaper, the cold chain is normal, usual way of handling a vaccine in refrigerators -- that's all hugely helpful. But you've still got to explain to your public why they're getting a 60 percent effective vaccine when there are 90 percent effective ones around and the same product if given in a different way. Might just get you up to 90 percent too.

CO: And so, of course, what does this do for public confidence? Because, you know, there's an army of anti-vaxxer out there. But in addition to that, lots of people just not trusting what is going on, how fast it's rolled out, not knowing what it is. So what effect does this have on public confidence?

DS: I'm not concerned about the how fast because I do not believe corners have been cut on safety, for example. And that's the thing that people worry about. So I think we can answer that robustly. If it can be adapted and used at 90 percent efficacy, then I think we don't have a problem to deal with. We've got an efficacious vaccine for which safety has been demonstrated sufficient that the regulators are prepared to license the product. I think that should be something that we can speak with confidence about to people who've got anxieties.

CO: This, as you know, so much pressure on those developing these vaccines and the high level of international scrutiny, media reporting every little development. I'm sure, you know, that this is very unusual for medical studies being conducted in a fishbowl that everyone is looking into. What effect does that have on the people who are in the fishbowl trying to develop the science?

DS: I think we are in a different place to where we've been in the past. In the past, the process was much more straightforward insofar as the science was developed and reported through medical publications and could be scrutinized by people with relevant expertize. The companies would submit their products for approval by regulators. But now we are in a different place where the release of material to the stock market is running ahead of release of information to the scientific community. And we are living by press release. And that is tough because there's only so much you can put in a press release. And as we have discovered this very week, it raises a lot of difficult questions. So I don't think this will go away. I suspect this will be the way in which things are going to happen for quite a while, particularly with these SARS coronavirus vaccines.

CO: And we will be watching. Dr. Salisbury thank you.

DS: It's my pleasure.

CO: Good night.

DS: Good night to you.

CH: David Salisbury is the former director of immunization at the UK's Department of Health. He also used to chair the WHO's strategic advisory group of experts on immunization. We reached him near Oxford, England. In a Bloomberg News report today, the CEO of AstraZeneca said the company will likely run an additional global trial to evaluate the lower dosage method.

[Music]

U.S. Thanksgiving: Iowa prof

Guest: Liz Pearce

CH: Ordinarily, you really would not want to get an email from your professor right before a holiday. But when Liz Pearce wrote to her students ahead of American Thanksgiving, it wasn't to assign work or remind them to get their readings done. Instead, Ms. Pearce was inviting them to dinner. Well, actually, she was checking to see if they would like dinner delivered from a safe distance by her and her kids. Knowing many of her students wouldn't make it home this Thanksgiving, the University of Iowa professor decided to take Thanksgiving to them. And this afternoon she did just that. We reached Liz Pearce in Iowa City.

CO: Liz, are you all done cooking?

LIZ PEARCE: Yes, thankfully.

CO: What did you actually produce?

LP: Well, I produced food for my four kids and me and then for nine students. And I've also got another delivery later to a nurse who has COVID and her mom reached out to me and asked if I would take her something. So I've got one more delivery left.

CO: What's on the menu?

LP: So we've got turkey dressing, cranberry sauce, green bean casserole, sweet potato casserole, and then I put peas in because I'm English and I have to have peas with every meal.

CO: [Laughs] So not just a typical American Thanksgiving, but a bit of England in there.

LP: Yeah, a little bit of England in there too.

CO: What about your dessert?

LP: We've got vegan apple pie, and pumpkin pie. My 15 year old daughter is vegan and so she was pretty adamant that we should do that action. And I had three vegan students take me up on it too.

CO: Can you describe what you offered your students?

LP: So I teach about 130 students this semester, and it struck me one day that they might not be able to go home for Thanksgiving. So I sent out an email to them just saying that if they weren't able to go home, I would be happy to make extra portions of my Thanksgiving dinner and then drop it by their house. I promised them I'd make it wearing masks so that there would be no risk of COVID.

CO: You offered this to all 130 students?

LP: Yes. I didn't know how many would take me out, but I knew if they all took me up that I'd have lots of help.

CO: And so can you just tell us a bit of why so many students would not be able to go home? Tell us about what's going on in Iowa right now.

LP: So a lot of my students, I would say probably almost a third of my students have had COVID sometime in the semester and so many more have had family members who have been sick. We are one of the few states that we have over a 50 percent positive test rate when people take tests.

CO: That's just extraordinary.

LP: It is. And I think partly we have different mask mandates for different parts of the state. We have a governor who hasn't been very proactive about mask mandates. So a lot of the mayors have had to take things into their own hands and make regulations about businesses, about groups meeting and also about wearing a mask in public.

CO: When you dropped off the food for the nine students who did want you to give them that, what was the interaction like? What did they say to you?

LP: Well, I kind of had to shout to them because I didn't get very close, so I just sort of waved. And I knew one student particularly well because I had her last semester for a face to face us. And it was so nice to see a face, even though I could only see half of her face. And I went a little closer and we bumped elbows and said we'd see each other again in better times.

CO: I understand that you might have one student who is actually in the hospital.

LP: I do. I do. I have one student who's in the hospital. And it just came up one day. She said, oh, I'm so sorry, the reception's bad, I'm in hospital. And it just broke my heart that while she's struggling in hospital, she is trying to meet her deadlines. And so I obviously I just said, you know, the only thing that matters is to get well and we can take care of your work when you're well.

CO: I know that you're also celebrating Thanksgiving without one of your own kids, a son who has tested positive for COVID-19, is that right?

LP: Yes, we are. He wasn't at the table with us today, but he's feeling much better. So he's going to drive over. And I've made a lot of food for him and we'll talk to him through the window of his car.

CO: How many families are like yours, where somebody is sick and can't be there, family members can't come because of COVID? How many homes do you think this is playing out in right now?

LP: I think it's playing out in a lot of homes. I heard today on the news that in the United States we had 2300 people who died yesterday and that has been going on for months. There's hardly anybody I know who hasn't been touched by COVID in some way or another. And thank God I haven't lost a loved one. But I do know three of my students have lost loved ones and have had a hard semester because of it.

CO: Just going back to your offer of cooking Thanksgiving dinner for 130 students. You know, this gesture, when you put out that note, I think one of your students put that out to a larger audience. And I understand you've had responses from around the world to your gesture, is that right?

LP: Yes, it's totally amazing. And my student tweeted and I'm not on Twitter, but I guess it got nearly a million likes. And my son, who's on Twitter, said that some people who'd read the message said, hey, this is a good idea, I'll do this in my community. So it's really nice because I think started a ball rolling and hopefully more people will have a nice home cooked Thanksgiving meal.

CO: Liz it's really lovely to speak with you. Thanks so much.

LP: It's lovely to speak with you. And I know it's not your Thanksgiving, but I hope you have a lovely evening.

CO: We will. Thank you very much.

CH: Liz Pearce is a professor at the University of Iowa and a busy Thanksgiving cook. We reached her in Iowa City.

[Music]

Pino

CH: The restaurant Pino in Frankfurt, Germany, always appears to be packed with customers. But they never even look at a menu, they're already stuffed. Right now, Germany is under what's called lockdown lite, which almost sounds cute but obviously is not. It's just a less extreme lockdown than the one in the spring. Under these new rules, which have been in place for weeks and are expected to stay in place for months, schools and stores are open and places of worship can hold services, but restaurants and bars aren't allowed to open. So to restaurant owners, these orders, which mean no orders are out of order. That's why Guiseppe Fichera, the owner of Pino, has packed his place with silent, cheerful, glassy eyed protesters: stuffed toy panda bears. "We wanted to put some life back in our restaurant," Mr. Fichera told Reuters. "They are panda-mic pandas." To further make his punning point against the lockdown, he places Corona beers in front of some of them to make some other point or maybe because he just likes dressing plush panda bears he's also put soccer jerseys on them. This slightly cute, slightly creepy protest gives people something to look at and something to think about. And I guess just to make the pun, he only needed one panda, but he must have figured his message bears repeating.

[Music]

Part 2: Red Hot Chili Piper: A kilt is not an invitation for groping and upskirt photos

SCOTUS: Synagogues

Guest: Jacob Kornbluh

CH: The U.S. Supreme Court says people in New York state should be able to visit their place of worship in person despite the pandemic. Late last night, the top court ruled five to four against New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo's COVID restrictions. The majority of justices, including newcomer Amy Coney Barrett, agreed that the governor had violated the First Amendment's protection of the free exercise of religion. This fall, New York State placed tough restrictions on so-called red zones, areas with high COVID-19 cases. No more than 10 people could attend religious services. And Orthodox Jewish synagogues felt unfairly singled out. Jacob Kornbluh is an Orthodox Jewish reporter at the Jewish Insider. We reached him in Brooklyn's Borough Park neighbourhood in New York City.

CO: Jacob, how are members of the Orthodox Jewish community of Brooklyn, how are they reacting to this Supreme Court decision today?

JACOB KORNBLUH: I think they are relieved that the Supreme Court gave them the backing that religious services should continue unrestricted. I think that we are in a period where these restrictions may return. And so while the ruling was on a previous matter, I think the court clearly said that if Governor Cuomo limits attendance at houses of worship, again, they could return to the Supreme Court and they would get another ruling in their favour.

CO: This wasn't just about the Jewish community, was it? Not just about Jews. It was about all religions. Because it really did hit the Orthodox Jewish community of Brooklyn very hard. And they were furious. They regarded it -- many said that Governor Cuomo's decision to restrict the synagogues was anti-Semitic. They said it was anti-Semitic. Why were people at that level of anger about the decision?

JK: I think during the recent uptick, the governor acted in a manner where it was perceived as cracking down and singling out the community without having the objective of defeating the virus as the prime goal. Your prime goal is just to play politics because there was an uptick in cases just at the same time as he was releasing his book, talking about how New York is doing so great.

CO: In September, there was a sharp uptick in infections in the Orthodox Jewish communities of Brooklyn and Queens, and that this reaction on the part of the governor to create these red zones, was it not because of alarming rates of infection that we saw in the early fall in those communities?

JK: I think it was this period between alarming the community about the uptick and implementing measures which he knew was undoable just because we were in the midst of the holidays, and to restrict the limit to 10 people across the board in every congregation, even a congregation that has thousands of seats. I think that was seen as, number one, not practical, but also the language he used, which is the word ultra-Orthodox community, those neighbourhoods there's also a diverse population there. I think the measures that he undertook was a little too fast because he didn't give the community time to adjust. Now, I'm not justifying defying and noncompliance, but what I'm saying is that when he took action, it was a little too late, but also too harsh.

CO: If I'm summing up what you're saying, it seems it was more discriminatory against Jews because in the Orthodox community these large social gatherings, the services, they're essential to that culture. And so did it hit harder the Orthodox community because of that nature?

JK: Yes, and, you know, you have to differentiate between gatherings and services, okay? And so when you limit services to 10 people per congregation, even if you have a synagogue that is has placed four thousand people, you're only allowed services for 10 people, which is I mean, absurd.

CO: But we've seen very large gatherings in those communities and reported us today, earlier, a wedding of thousands of people not wearing masks and apparently doing it in secret so that they didn't get caught and they've been fined 15,000 dollars by the city. How should the government, how should the state, how should Governor Cuomo respond to those kinds of events that could be super spreaders?

JK: He has no credibility right now, neither has Mayor de Blasio because he's also seen as somebody who was singling out the community. I think it also has to do with the top. When people see, number one, the now defeated president defied all the recommendations to hold his political rallies, they said if they can do it, why can we not do it?

CO: But at the same time, what responsibilities do Jewish leaders and rabbis have to do? I mean, is there not a religious rule that the religious rules should be suspended if life is at risk, don't they have a responsibility in that regard?

JK: If you look back at March, that was actually the argument that the rabbis made when they closed down all the synagogues, that life is at risk. At the time the community was hard hit, there were probably 20 to 30 funerals a day. I also believe that if the community leaders and rabbis would have encouraged the community early on to wear masks, to keep social distance and take this serious, I think right now we would have seen a different outcome. But that didn't happen.

CO: You were covering as a journalist a mask burning protest in October and you were attacked physically by a mob. So why do you think they went after you?

JK: There was just this populist leader who was seeking to advance his political career, who took it upon himself to be the representative of this angry and frustrated community. And he just took it to the next level, inciting against me just because people felt that based on my reporting, the government took harsher action against the community, cracking down against the community. I was the scapegoat. It was me being a traitor and a snitch who informed government about these violations. And so he saw me as being an easy target to express their anger. And once I was there and he noticed me, it was just about enraging a crowd and just making me pay the political price.

CO: But you're able to keep reporting on what's going on in Brooklyn?

JK: Yes, I'm undeterred. I have a strong character. And again, speaking of what is really happening, giving an accurate measure of the infection rate and also reporting on what some people see the government mishandling this crisis, and so it's balanced but Yes, I speak truth to power. And if I have to pay a price for that, let it be so.

CO: Jacob, thanks for speaking with us.

JK: My pleasure.

CH: Jacob Kornbluh is an Orthodox Jewish reporter at The Jewish Insider. We reached him in New York City.

[Music]

Hamilton old bills

Guest: Ed Agopian

CH: A priceless tradition is coming to an end in Hamilton, Ontario. For years Ed Agopian, owner of Imperial Coin and Stamp Company, has been giving out tips at restaurants. But unlike the rest of us, he gives a one dollar bills, the paper kind, and now his stash of bills is almost cleaned out. We reached Ed Agopian at his shop in Hamilton.

CO: Ed how many one dollar bills have you got left?

ED AGOPIAN: Oh, I've got one left that is going to be used tonight.

CO: What are you going to use it on?

EA: I going to use it on a meal with my girlfriend.

CO: You are going to go out with your girlfriend and it's only going to cost a dollar or what?

EA: Oh, no, no. I give them more than a dollar. But one of the items will be a dollar bill.

CO: Now, how long have you been using one dollar bills?

EA: I have been using the one and two dollar bill for approximately four years now.

CO: Aha. Why?

EA: And we've got about a thousand pieces out there.

CO: Why have you been doing that?

EA: I just started -- I got them in collections. I says, well I'm going to use them as tips and I started putting my nickname 'Hollywood' and it stuck. And any bills that are out there with Hollywood on it, you know it came from us.

CO: You write Hollywood on the bills?

EA: On the bills on the left hand corner.

CO: When you leave these dollar bills on the table, do you look back to see how...

EA: Yeah they are just absolutely remarkable, like they're all flustered to see, they can't figure it out, you know, what's this all about? And why am I giving this and the whole nine yards?

CO: Well, describe what it's like when you look back and see the way they look.

EA: They look shocked. They usually say, "for me?" I say, yeah, you're a great waitress, thank you for the great service.

CO: OK, what's it worth? Is it worth a dollar anymore?

EA: Yes.

CO: It is not a collector's item or anything?

EA: Yeah, no, no.

CO: And so they can just spend that someplace else.

EA: They can spend it until the end of the year.

CO: Oh okay, what happens at the end of the year?

EA: At the end of the year -- January the 1st, they're no longer legal tender. They've got to go to Ottawa to cash them for a dollar.

CO: So that's an expensive trip to get one dollar.

EA: Expensive trip. Yes. Right.

CO: Okay, so on January 1st, just one dollar bills, or two dollar bills or all the bills are...

EA: No, just the ones and twos we use.

CO: Do you have two dollar bills as well?

EA: Not anymore. They're all gone.

CO: How many did you have when you started going?

EA: I give away approximately a thousand dollars in cash.

CO: How did you have so many one and two dollar bills?

EA: Well, they came in coin collection this year. We buy all kinds of stuff and even if it wasn't used, we still buy them for a dollar because I knew I was going to use them as tips.

CO: And are any of them worth more than a dollar?

EA: Brand new one dollar bills, we're currently charging three dollars. And the two dollar bills, we're currently charging four dollars.

CO: You'll give three dollars to someone to give you a new one dollar bill.

EA: If they want a brand new one dollar bill it will cost them three dollars plus HST.

CO: Can you remind people what a one dollar bill looks like? What's on it?

EA: Oh, it's Queen Elizabeth. And I forget what is in the back. I really don't know. [Laughs] I don't pay much attention.

CO: Ed, you've been spending all these one dollar bills and you haven't looked at it?

EA: I know. I don't know, unfortunately, I don't. Here, I'll look at the picture.

CO: Do that.

EA: [Looking at the bill] One dollar bill. Let's see what it looks like here. Okay, it's got the Parliament Hill across the Ottawa River on the back.

CO: Uh huh, okay.

EA: The Queen Elizabeth on the right hand side.

CO: And do you have any two dollar bills, what is on the two dollar bill?

EA: The two dollar bill has robins.

CO: I understand you're a bit of an institution in Hamilton.

EA: We been in business since 1978 -- 43 years.

CO: But this tradition of giving out these dollar bills in restaurants, is this a bit of a tradition in Hamilton?

EA: Tradition in Hamilton -- I'm the only guy that does it, as far as I know. [Laughter].

CO: So you'll be using your last dollar bill tonight?

EA: Yes.

CO: Where are you going to go?

EA: Oh, I think we're going to go to the West End Diner in Hamilton and we're going to bring the article with us. And we'll hopefully try to take a picture with the waitress.

CO: Okay, how do you feel about the demise of one and two dollar bills?

EA: I'm very disgusted about it because it's Canada's history and they've taken everything out of the history of Canada. The penny was the first demise. And that was in 2012. Why they took the penny out is beyond me. They could have still distributed the penny and not make any new ones. It makes no sense.

CO: Do you think they'll go after nickels and quarters?

EA: Nickels will be next.

CO: Really?

EA: Yes.

CO: Oh, that's big.

EA: I would predict in the next ten years you won't see a nickel.

CO: And what about quarters and dimes?

EA: That still will be legal tender. But the penny was the leg horse of the -- what do you call it? The economy. Penny is always a penny. Always got a penny in change..

CO: What's your most treasured thing in your shop?

EA: My treasure thing, I've got a federal bank five dollar bill. I forget the year of it -- 18-something -- it is 6000 dollars. It's a very rare note.

CO: Okay. Well anyway, so you'll have a good meal tonight with your girlfriend.

EA: I will have a good meal with my girlfriend and we'll see the reaction and hopefully we can take a picture of the girl.

CO: [Laughs] All right. Whatever that means. Okay, thanks Ed.

EA: My pleasure.

CH: Ed Agopian is the owner of Imperial Coin and Stamp Company. He was in Hamilton, Ontario.

[Music]

Piper upkilting

Guest: Willie Armstrong

CH: When it comes to jokes about what a bagpiper wears under his kilt, Willie Armstrong has heard them all, over and over about what's under there. And he's over it. Mr. Armstrong is a member of the Scottish band the Red Hot Chili Pipers, and he's done pretending that any of those jokes are funny. Moreover, he says they often go beyond even cheap laughs. He says he's faced humiliation, inappropriate picture taking and even groping while he's trying to perform. We reached Willie Armstrong in Cumbernauld, Scotland.

CO: Willie, how often do you encounter people who are trying to find out what's under your kilt?

WILLIE ARMSTRONG: I would say it's not like you would say oh, I remember one time. I would say it's actually more like a weekly if I'm busy with a band being mind the environment, working with the Red Hot Chili Pipers, I would say it's a weekly basis because it's either an innuendo -- asking me if I'm wearing underwear -- or whether it will be an actual assault where they are touching me under my kilt or photographs.

CO: And people are doing this because they think it's fun, right?

WA: Yeah. So that's the thing. This is the reason why I kind of spoke out. They have got a new law in Scotland, it's called 'upskirting.' And it's a new criminal offense. If you wanted to take a picture on the little women's skirt or dress, then that's actually a criminal offense, as it should have been, and it is quite right that that should be the case. And so I always thought that -- hold on, why is it funny if that happens to a man? And it's absolutely appalling, if it happens to a woman? It's not because I'm a male chauvinist, I'm doing this. The reason I'm doing this is if I bring this to everybody's attention, then surely that should benefit both sexes because it's not acceptable if it happens to a man and it is certainly not acceptable if it happens women.

CO: So people actually try to take a picture under your kilt?

WA: Yeah, that happens. I would say that happens more often than any of the other things that happen. And now they'll get the selfie sticks. So if you're on stage, you'll get selfie sticks pushed underneath the floor level.

CO: Really?

WA: Yeah. I've even had women come on stage and crawl on their backs and the audience are hysterical. And for me, it's like if you tell somebody a funny joke and then you tell them the same joke every day for a month, it's not funny anymore. And that's exactly how I feel.

CO: How much pressure do you feel under to treat it as a joke, to laugh it off, especially since you're performing with the Red Hot Chili Pipers?

WA: You have a sense of responsibility to play your instrument and play the instrument well. So you're delivering your musical performance. However if somebody then has put their hand up inside your thigh then you're faced with a moral dilemma. The thing that I have to make clear, I've never ever been frightened or intimidated when that's happened to me. And I can see clearly why if it happened to a woman, she would be frightened and intimidated. It's a terrible thing to happen. But for me, I get weary often and I don't really know why I would have to take -- I've got a moral dilemma. What do I do here, do I stop playing my pipes and ruin the musical performance for the rest of the audience who seem to be enjoying it so I can deal with this woman who thinks it's funny, and she's got her hands up the back of my kilt or front of my kilt?

CO: So you say it's not frightening or intimidating. What is the emotion you have?

WA: Not for me.

CO: What is the emotion you have when...

WA: I would say just disappointed that somebody would think that that kind of behaviour is acceptable. And sometimes a look says it all -- oh, you know, you look down, you go, please. And they can come to their senses, but more often they are not. The environment, don't forget, the environment where I'm performing, there's alcohol involved quite a lot of the times. You can't ever use alcohol as an excuse -- [inaudible].

CO: So among the things that happened to you, so the selfie sticks, people trying to take pictures under your kilt, women on their backs on the stage, trying to get under and take a look and take pictures. But you say you've actually been physically touched, that's groping, like people have groped you?

WA: Groping is probably -- if you think about it, it's actually sexual assault. Now, if I was to do that to a woman or any man would do that to a woman, they would probably end up getting arrested.

CO: You've said elsewhere that you have experienced this kind of thing since you were a kid wearing a kilt and performing it. Did you tell your parents about that?

WA: Yeah. So I started playing the bagpipes when I was 12. So that was in the 70s, and let's not forget and I know the culture has changed since 1970s -- it has changed remarkably and I think for the better. Yeah. But even then if I was playing in a pipe band and an entertainment venue then you would have women putting their hand up your kilt. And if you think about how appalling that is, your crossing so many barriers there. There's a 12 year old boy playing his instrument and you think it's okay. If you put that the other way -- a 12 year old girl, we have a dress and a venue and a man puts his hand up inside her dress, you couldn't even imagine how bad that would be. And again, when I said to my parents, again, different cultural, different decades. My mom and dad said that's just one of these things if you wear a kilt -- suck it up. That's what happens. But looking back on it, I can see how off the scale inappropriate that would be.

CO: Do you ever get tempted to just not wear the kilt?

WA: It is getting that way. It's getting that way. I'll be very honest, I wear cycling shorts under my kilt now. And it is getting to stage where I think if I walk into a room, I can tell you right there. And then if it's going to be bad or good by the amount drink that's flowing or the amount of females in the audience and their passions that have been loosened. And I just think, oh, here we go.

CO: But maybe if you get this message out, maybe that you'll get enough people understanding about upkilting and its effect on you, that you won't have to do that.

WA: I hope so. The other side is and it's a horrible thing for me to say, but there's guys [inaudible]. I wouldn't obviously tell you who it was. But I have said, well, what are you doing? This is just, you know, all part of it. You know, you're a Scotsman wearing a kilt, of course you're going to get fondled by people. And I just think, well, why would you enjoy that? They haven't even asked you. This is against any principle of humanity that, you know, they just think they can do what they want to you. I feel like sometimes I think you can be mixed up with a [inaudible]. I'm a musician.

CO: Willie it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

WA: You too. No problem. It's a pleasure.

CH: Willie Armstrong is a member of the Red Hot Chili Pipers. We reached him in Cumbernauld, Scotland. And you can find more on the story on our webpage at: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Krista MacInnes

CH: Sometimes there just aren't two sides to a story. This week in Abbotsford, British Columbia, a woman named Krista MacInnes posted a video online expressing her outrage over an assignment that her 11 year old daughter brought home from school. Here's part of that video.

KRISTA MACINNES: "Write at least five positive stories or facts about the residential schools from at least three different websites." This is the homework that my daughter was sent home with in grade six from a school that is aware that she is Aboriginal. We are First Nations. We live in Canada. And this is what they're sending. They are whitewashing the rape of our culture, the theft of our people and the genocide of just everything in general when it comes to First Nations people. They're not teaching them the truth. Five positive things about residential schools. Can you name five positive things about Nazis and the concentration camps? Can you name five positive things about slavery? This is not okay.

CH: Abbotsford, B.C. mother Krista MacInnes talking about a school assignment given to her 11 year old to name five positive things about residential schools. This morning, Jo Chrona talked to the CBC about the assignment. MicroRNA is the curriculum manager with BC's First Nations Education Steering Committee.

JO CHRONA: There are so many resources to help teachers teach about residential schools, about truth and reconciliation, in really good, respectful, sensitive ways. There have been resources that have been put out by the BC Chiefs. There been resources that were created for elementary and secondary classrooms by the First Nations Education Student Committee, specifically focusing on this, specifically targeted at grade level, to be respectful of students, to ensure that we're doing it in a good way. These are resources that have been available free to educators across the province for many years.

STEPHEN QUINN: The school district responded saying that they're going to do a full investigation here. And the principal of the school of William A. Fraser Middle School has spoken directly to the teacher in question, we're told. What do you think of the way that this has been handled at a local level in so far as we know?

JO CHRONA: Yeah. So my knowledge is, based on what I've read in the news reports. There's a hope that whenever we make a mistake and the mistake of this great magnitude that does hurt people that we own up to our mistakes, not only learn how to do it better next time, but really own the mistake and look at that as an opportunity for learning. And I think that's pretty much what I could hope, except for one thing -- and this is I'm just taking words from a news report where a representative of the school district, talked about the fact they're working on equity and inclusion. Equity and inclusion is an important aspect of what's happening within the school system right now. But we also have to have more targeted, focused conversations on anti-racism and anti-racism towards Indigenous peoples because that includes devaluing our collective history.

CH: That was Jo Chrona of BC's First Nations Education Steering Committe Speaking with Stephen Quinn, host of the Early Edition. This week an Abbotsford, B.C., school gave 11 year olds the assignment of listing five positive things about residential schools. Abbotsford School District Superintendent Kevin Godden says the school's principal has apologized to parents for the assignment and called it unacceptable.

[Music]

Part 3: Cape Cod turtles

Cape Cod turtles

Guest: Connie Merigo

CH: For days now, people have been scouring the beaches of Cape Cod Bay in Massachusetts day and night, looking for endangered turtles that have been washing up by the dozens. The turtles need help and fast, which is where Connie Merigo and her team at the New England Aquarium's Marine Animal Rescue Department come in. Hundreds of turtles have been taken to that turtle hospital and others in the last few weeks, and they're bracing for many more. We reached Connie Merigo in Boston.

CO: Connie, how many turtles do you have in your care right now?

CONNIE MERIGO: We have 53 turtles currently in our hospital.

CO: And what condition are they in?

CM: Well, they all stranded with something we call cold stunning in sea turtles. It's essentially hypothermia. And a lot of these turtles are quite small and they're pretty critical right now.

CO: And so will they survive?

CM: We hope so. That's the goal. Turtles do pretty well coming back from hypothermia.

CO: But there have been hundreds of these sea turtles who have washed up ashore in Cape Cod. So have you been able to return some of them already?

CM: We haven't put them back in the ocean, they're too critical for that. They will take weeks or months of therapy. But we have flown them to other partners around the U.S. so that we can make more room for the incoming turtles off the beach. And when the turtles are back to full health, full weight and full strength, they will be cleared for release and released back to the wild.

CO: Does this happen often, this stranding of so many turtles?

CM: For us up here in Massachusetts, it's an annual event. This year we're way ahead of pace. So we've already had just about 300 turtles that have been rescued off the beaches. Sometimes that number is our average for the entire season. So it does happen every year. It happens in the fall as the water temperatures start to decline. Turtles that haven't gone south end up in Cape Cod Bay and they end up stranding.

CO: And so do you think is there a reason, do you think why so many more or it seems like you're getting more so early of these stranded sea turtles?

CM: We're not sure why. It's a great question. It happened once before and we were pretty out resource at that point. We're much better prepared now because of that year. But we don't exactly know why they come up here. So they would have had to go around the tip of Florida and probably in the Gulf Stream. We do think that they come up from those warmer climates in the Gulf Stream and then for some reason we aren't sure what, but they come out of the Gulf Stream and usually head closer to shore. And then as the days get shorter, it gets cooler, there's some speculation that the turtles actually use the coastline to navigate itself, and that's how they end up in Cape Cod Bay, which if you've seen it's like the shape of a horseshoe. So it's essentially a little trapped in there.

CO: Right. Can you point any fingers at the changes that are going on? We know climate change is not just changing temperatures of water and air, but also currents of water, especially in the Atlantic. So any evidence that that may have contributed to this?

CM: Probably not for this year, but we do think that as the Gulf of Maine warms, that that could attract more turtles, it could become a suitable habitat for them. It's usually been too cold, but it's warming up. As you know, it's the most rapidly warming body of water on the planet.

CO: What species of turtles are they? Are they all the same species that are getting stranded?

CM: No, we see multiple species. The majority of the turtles that strand are Kemp's ridleys. That's the most endangered sea turtle in the world. We also get loggerhead turtles and green turtles.

CO: And yeah, I understand you had one enormous loggerhead turtle that was delivered to you.

CM: We did. It was an adult male loggerhead. It's quite rare for us to get an adult male. When he came in, he was unresponsive and I wasn't actually sure he was going to make it through the night. We couldn't get a heartbeat. We had to use an ultrasound to look at cardiac activity. But after some therapies by our veterinarian, we were getting some breaths out of the turtle on his own. And we put him in a shallow pool for the night and he was still with us the next day so we continued treating him. But he really took a turn and passed away which was just unfortunate. So many of us had worked so hard. We have volunteers that have worked to help us move him, change his water. You know, the care is quite unique when you're dealing with marine animals. Here it is marine reptile. So it was a pretty sad time for everybody involved.

CO: It must be tough, especially knowing that these are endangered species when you lose one like that has probably been around for a long time.

CM: Yeah, in order for loggerheads to be mature, sexually mature, they need to be about 30 years old, some studies say 40. So we do know based on his shell size and the length of his tail, that he was probably a breeding adult. So, yes, this turtle has been swimming around out there for 30 or 40 or more years, and that's important. He's navigated all the anthropogenic threats that are out there, speedboats, some of our vertical line that we have in the ocean, trash, plastics, things like that. So if this turtle was part already of the breeding population and now he's not, that's a little bit of a blow there.

CO: That's too bad. What are you telling people who are on the beach when they encounter turtles? Are people volunteering or are they are they turning up with turtles at your facility?

CM: No, thank gosh, especially in this day of COVID. There's a very well-coordinated beach effort by the Mass Audubon at Wellfleet Bay. The director of the program is responsible of tracking the winds, the tides, and he will sort of direct those volunteers to the beaches that he's pretty sure turtles are going to get pushed in by the wind. There's probably 400 of these beach walkers. They go out at every high tide. And as you know, that shifts by about an hour a day. So sometimes they're going out late at night or in the wee hours of the morning. And then there's two ambulances that come up from Mass Audubon a day. They bring them up to us.

CO: Wow. Well, people are going to have a busy Thanksgiving weekend, it sounds like.

CM: Yes, I think so.

CO: Connie, it's good to talk to you. Thanks.

CM: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

CH: Connie Merigo manages the New England Aquarium's Turtle Hospital. She was in Boston.

[Music]

William Gagnon

CH: Beatrice Vachon was dreading the day. Yesterday, the 93 year old lost the place she's called home for more than half a century. It's one of hundreds of homes in the Beauce region of Quebec that have been demolished because of yearly spring floods. Before it was torn down vacillations family gave the house a special sendoff. Across its facade, they wrote the names of all the people who've lived there over the years, as well as the friends and neighbours who had a special connection to the home. William Gagnon is Ms. Vachon' Grandson. He spoke about the house and how it feels to see it go.

WILLIAM GAGNON: It is sad because there always are a lot of memories attached to it, you know, family gatherings, Christmas Eves. But at the same time, the installation that my father and his sisters -- it really allows us to enter this new chapter in a relatively peaceful manner I'd say.

PETER TARDIF: Hmm, you mentioned the events, the Christmas, the birthdays. What are some of your fondest memories from being in that house?

WILLIAM GAGNON: I'd say just visiting my grandmother on weekends when I was younger. We'd go quite often. I will always remember the sort of timelessness -- the timelessness of the house. You know, it would never change. It was almost like fixed in time or something.

PETER TARDIF: Could you describe the neighbourhood where your grandmother's house was, what it's looked like over the years as people have moved out because those homes are in a flood zone?

WILLIAM GAGNON: I would say if you gave the neighbourhood a visit right now, it is quite...it's desolation. It is sad. There are very few traces of the houses that have once stood. The sidewalks are still there. Lampposts are still there, but most of the houses are gone. Of course, my cousins have wanted to attend the demolition and capture short video, short glimpses of it on video. And I sort of was -- that fear, it feeling really brutal or violent. And I'd say I think the whole installation and the tribute we pay to the house makes such an episode a lot easier for us to to go through.

CH: William Gagnon speaking with Peter Tardif on CBC's Breakaway. A house that's been in Mr. Gagnon's family for more than half a century, was demolished yesterday because of recurrent flooding in the Beauce region of Quebec.

[Music]

Archives: Bug Girl award

CH: Sophia Spencer really loves bugs. Since she was a small child, the 11 year old has been fascinated by them. And for her, insects aren't just amusements, they are muses. Sophia has written a book called The Bug Girl: A True Story, which describes how her love of bugs has affected her life so far. Yesterday, the bugs and the book had another major effect, Sophia was awarded the 2020 Nature Inspiration Award by the Canadian Museum of Nature for inspiring kids to share their passions. In February, Sophia and her mom, Nicole Spencer, joined Carol in the As It Happens studio to talk about that passion. Here's that conversation from our archives.

CO: Sophia, welcome to the As It Happens studio.

SOPHIA SPENCER: Thank you.

CO: And your mom, Nicole. Welcome as well.

NICOLE SPENCER: Thank you for having us.

CO: Thank you for both coming in. Okay, Sophia, I have to start with the million-dollar question. Why do you love bugs so much?

SS: Well, I get asked that a lot. And I think it's mainly because they have their own ecosystem. Like, they've made their own world — their own mini universe.

CO: Okay, I know you love bugs. And the rule is in your house you're not allowed to kill bugs. But what about bugs that sting and bite?

SS: Um, no, we still don't kill them. We have a net, and you will catch them. And I'll grab them and I'll just let them outside.

CO: I want to ask your mom. Nicole, so having a house with a no-kill bugs rule, what's that like to try and manage [she laughs].

NS: Um, it's not too bad. There's only been a few times where I've covered the bug with the net for her to take out the next day. And the next morning, when we wake up, the bug is gone [CO laughs]. But I'm not going to discourage her from you know the rule is no killing bugs. They're important, so I manage it. But it's okay.

CO: This story of The Bug Girl — and your story, Sophia — begins with the first time you fell in love with an insect. Can you tell us that story?

SS: Well, when I was two-and-a-half, I went to a butterfly conservatory in Naga falls — which is a zoo that's just for butterflies. And then as soon as I walked in there, a blue butterfly perched on my shoulder. And I was just crying all over my face. And it didn't leave. The entire time I was there, it was just on me. And when I left, because you know you can't take home exotic butterflies, [CO laughs] the guard had to take it off of me, because again, you can't take home exotic butterflies.

CO: So Nicole, when did you realize you're your daughter had a really special connection with insects?

NS: After we left the conservatory, she asked if she could get bug net so she could try to catch some bugs. So it pretty much spiraled after that, where I was buying containers, and nets, and magnifying glasses, and my life revolved around Google for a really long time. Because if she found a bug outside, she'd want to know about the bug.

CO: Sophia, when you started going to kindergarten, at first, you had classmates that you could share your love of bugs with. How did they respond in school?

SS: Um, well, when I was in kindergarten, they loved it. Like, if they ever found a bug, they could be like, Sophia, what's this bug? And I would usually know what it was. And they responded really well. And I still know some of the kids from kindergarten. And they're like I can't believe children did that like it's cool that you like bugs. And I’m thank you!

CO: And what you're referring to is what happened when you switched schools, I think in grade one. And you had a very different experience. What happened with the kids there?

SS: Well, the kids at my newer school, they didn't like the fact that I was different. So they would tease me, they would bully me. If I would bring a bug in from home, they would like knock it off from my shoulder and kill it. So I felt just really upset, really sad and beat down.

CO: And so, at one point, you decided that you just had to give up a bit on your bug interest, right, you sort of packed things up. What happened? What did you do?

SS: Well, I started to pack up all my bug stuff, all my bug nets. I let all the bugs that were at home I let them go. I just gave up because you know I wanted friends. If I could have friends, but not do my passion, then I was ready to give that up.

CO: And did that help? Did the kids stop bullying you become friends with you?

SS: Um, no, not really. They knew I still like bugs. They just they knew that I liked bugs, but they knew I was just faking it. So they still didn't like me.

CO: Nicole, for you, for being a mom, and to see the effect this had on her in school. What effect did that have on you?

NS: When you see your child side and thinking well if I stop liking something, maybe I'll have friends. It's heartbreaking to see your kid go through something like that. And then you get really angry. And I just was upset. I didn't want to see her give up something that she had loved for so long and was so excited about.

CO: You had an idea for what to do. What did you think might work?

NS: I thought if I thought outside the box and wrote a letter to the Entomological Society of Canada, we could maybe get a pen pal for her. And it went viral, and we had an amazing outpouring of support from across the world. And it was just incredible to see so many people reach out to her.

CO: Sophia, did you think when your mom wrote the letter to the entomologist, the society, did you think that you'd get much of a response? Did you think, yeah Mom, that might work? Or where you kind of doubtful about that?

SS: Um, she didn't tell me when she was doing it. She didn't want to like get my hopes up and then nothing was responding. So yeah, she didn't tell me.

CO: And then what did you see happen?

SS: Um, well she told me that she asked them, and that you know it went viral. And that there was so, so many people that liked bugs. And that told me I should keep doing what I love.

CO: From all around the world, right?

NS: We had women that were studying bugs in the Amazon writing emails to us and telling her that you know they had had similar experiences growing up, that they had been bullied for their love of insects, and they didn't let it stop them.

CO: And what effect did that have on you? Did you tell the other kids at school? Did they know that you were becoming a kind of star?

SS: Um, well, by when this happened, I was in a different school. I changed schools again after grade one. And the kids there were a lot nicer. They encouraged me a lot. Yeah, it was a lot better. And then, yeah, we started to make the book.

CO: And that became The Bug Girl: A True Story — which is a beautiful book. What do you think of it when you saw the whole book put together like that?

SS: When I first read it, I thought I was just an amazing book. I thought it was just so cool. It really does express like the story really, really well.

CO: So I tested your book on the weekend with my granddaughters, and they love your book. But they had some questions for you. They wanted to know [she laughs]. My granddaughter Chloe, who's almost eight, she wanted to know what feelings you had when you first had that butterfly land on you?

SS: The first reaction I had was like this is really cool. Like, it's not leaving. It's on me. It's not leaving me. And I thought it was really, really cool. And I was very surprised that the fact that I was the only one in the whole conservatory that it was staying on.

CO: And then Clara, who is almost six, wants to know about one fact you have in the book. You said that there are bugs in Antarctica?

SS: Yeah.

CO: She thought that's impossible. It's so cold there.

SS: Nope.

CO: Okay. I'll tell Clara that's the case. And they both had one last question for you. What do you want to be when you grow up?

SS: Um, well, I'd like to be an entomologist. I'd like to grow up to study bugs in different environments.

CO: Sophia, congratulations on your beautiful book.

SS: Thank you.

CO: And, Nicole. Thank you so much for bringing Sophia in to talk to us.

NS: Thank you so much for having us. It was a pleasure.

CH: That was 11 year old Sophia Spencer and her mother, Nicole, speaking with Carol in February. Yesterday, Sophia received the 2020 Nature Inspiration Award from the Canadian Museum of Nature for inspiring kids to share their passions. And we've shared our web-post on that story once again on our webpage. You can find it at: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

China Lily Soya Sauce

CH: In northern British Columbia, China Lily Soya Sauce is something of a cultural institution, but lately the Canadian-made product has been hard to find and people are getting salty about it. A recent article set off alarm bells. It reported that the Toronto factory that's been making the soya sauce for more than 60 years was shutting down. And so much like the toilet paper debacle of March 20, people stocked up. The problem is that article did not tell the whole story. Carolina de Ryk, host of the CBC's Daybreak North, did some sleuthing of her own, and then she broke the news to a China Lily superfan, Annita McPhee, who's from the Tahltan First Nation and lives in Vancouver.

ANNITA MCPHEE: Well, first of all, I love China Lily, and I can't find it anywhere. You can't even buy it on Amazon. I went on to Amazon and there's nothing available. It says it doesn't know when it's going to be available. And then I looked online, there's an article saying that China Lily was produced in Toronto and it's no longer produced at that location anymore.

CAROLINA DE RYK: I have some good news for you, Anita. I thought I should second source that article that you're referring to. And so I called Lee's Foods in Toronto who produced China Lily, and they told me, don't worry, we're not closing down. The problem is, is that everybody's buying up China Lily, it's the new toilet paper.

ANNITA MCPHEE: [Laughs] Oh, no, that's what's going on. You know, where I am getting China Lily from this week?

CAROLINA DE RYK: Where?

ANNITA MCPHEE: Powell River. You know, I was wondering why, as a Tahltan person, as an Indigenous person on the coast, why we loved rice so much. And I remember when I was in high school, I was eating chili and I asked, where's the rice? Because I was living with guardians, like people who weren't my parents for high school. And they said, oh, no, we eat toast with this. And I said, well, where's the rice? And I said, our people eat rice with everything. I think that there's a deep connection between Indigenous people and, you know, Asian people who are working in the canneries. And maybe that's why our people really love eating rice for one and loved China Lily, I've heard of people buying like 16 bottles of China Lily.

CH: That was China Lily Soya sauce superfan Annita McPhee speaking with Carolina de Ryk, host of Daybreak North.

[Music]

Paul Barton

CH: We all need to be soothed right now, and nothing does that better than a beautiful piece of classical music. [Piano playing but wrong notes are played] Sorry, bit of a misfire there, let's try that again. Nothing does that better than an exquisite piece of music exquisitely performed. [Piano playing] Well, you got to hand it to British pianist Paul Barton for trying, it's not easy to concentrate when you're serenading hundreds of macaques in Thailand. He hoped the monkeys would find their souls nourished by the music. Instead, they tried to nourish themselves by eating his sheet music. Mr. Barton has lived in Thailand for years and has hauled his instrument all over the country to play for animals who've suffered in the hopes that the music would help them heal. And the macaques are suffering. The dearth of tourists has left them hungry and pretty hangry too, which means they seemed more interested in consuming food than music. Paul Barton did concede that he was surprised to find the animals tearing the stool to pieces as he played, not to mention trying to pull down his pants. Still not wanting to end thing on a sour note, he told reporters, I wasn't going to let those things distract from the project, which is to play music for these wonderful macaques. It's very generous of him and he obviously enjoys it, even with macaques crawling all over him. But under the circumstances, it must be hard to get a monkey off your Bach.

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November 26, 2020 Episode Transcript

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