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The AIH Transcript for November 12, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Opening gambit. As China increases restrictions on democracy in Hong Kong, Canada's immigration minister makes it easier for more of its youngest and brightest to make new lives here.

CH: A tough row to home. The Ontario Labour Relations Board awards damages to a Mexican farm worker who was fired after raising concerns about a COVID outbreak. But his lawyer says that may not change much for other vulnerable workers.

CO: Going a lot of the extra miles. The CEO of an Ontario hospital drops everything to drive across the U.S. border to pick up a rare drug for a patient, even though that two hour trip means a 14 day quarantine.

CH: Heart of stone. An archeologist who spent years working in and around Stonehenge, says he's heartbroken that the U.K. has green-lit a new traffic tunnel underneath the ancient site.

CO: Bear witness. Researchers at the University of Victoria are using a new technique to identify and track grizzlies in British Columbia, facial recognition software.

CH: And assistance is futile. New algorithms allow the Alexa Smart speaker to be more conversational by guessing the question you're going to ask after the question you're asking. But so far, users report her curiosity kills the chat. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that warns overzealous technology, this kind of thing could be a real turnoff.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Canada's Hong Kong immigration plan benefits asylum seekers too, minister says

Hong Kong Canada: Marco Mendicino

Guest: Marco Mendicino

CH: This week, China has continued its crackdown on democracy in Hong Kong. And today the Trudeau government responded by making it easier for Hong Kongers to make new lives here. In Ottawa, the Immigration and Refugee Minister, Marco Mendicino, announced new measures that he said were aimed at attracting young people and recent graduates. Minister Mendicino said that would be good for the Canadian economy as it recovers from COVID-19. But he also talked about Canada's commitment to asylum seekers who might be forced to flee Hong Kong for safety. We reached Marco Mendicino in Ottawa.

CO: Minister Mendicino, what message should China take from your announcement today?

MARCO MENDICINO: Well, I was very proud to make an announcement that is aimed at recruiting and retaining young Hong Kong graduates who I hope will see an opportunity, something that speaks to their aspirations in finding work, continuing their studies and building a better life in Canada.

CO: The question, though, is what message do you think China will take from your announcement?

MM: Well, our announcement is focused on strengthening the ties between Canada and the people of Hong Kong. And it builds on the immigration plan, which I announced less than two weeks ago. So that's our focus. Our focus is on creating jobs, on ensuring that we accelerate our economic recovery. And we think that young graduates and the young people of Hong Kong have something to contribute, not only in the long term, but today. And take the health care sector where our workers are, you know, tirelessly around the clock, we need reinforcements. Hong Kong is also well known as a tech and innovation hub.

CO: What we have been learning is what Beijing and the new administration has planned for these pro-democracy activists, people in the country. Your program, your arrangement is aimed to attract people with high education who would be economically useful to Canada. But it's not an offer of help to those who may need to flee because of political persecution. How is this supposed to help those people?

MM: Well, I dispute that for a number of reasons. One, Canada has a robust asylum system. And those claims, which are adjudicated by our independent tribunal, not a political process, has the capacity to accept claims for those who are fleeing persecution. In addition to that, I highlighted a number of measures which we have aligned based on our own ongoing monitoring of the situation in Hong Kong, including waiving the one year period that usually applies to failed asylum claimants. And in this particular case, failed asylum claimants from Hong Kong will not have to wait that one year, they can apply for an assessment, and that may be in practical terms that they get to stay in Canada. The other thing that I underlined today is that no foreign national, no Hong Kong foreign national, will be disqualified for applying for asylum by virtue of the sole reason that they've been charged under the Chinese national security law. And more than that, no one will be disqualified from Hong Kong or anywhere else by sole virtue of the fact that they've been charged under the national security law. So we are speaking to those points that you've raised in your question. But there's no doubt that our focus is also on expanding opportunities, strengthening the people to people ties so that we can attract those young Hong Kongers to Canada. And this is, again, in keeping with the relationship that has existed for many years.

CO: A few things about that. First of all, very few people have been charged under the national security law. Very many of those pro-democracy activists who've been out in the streets have been charged under previous laws that may be laws that are recognized under Canadian law. So it's not really helpful to them, is it? Why not expand it so that those pro-democracy activists have a better chance at making an asylum claim in Canada if that's your intention?

MM: Well, I hear you, but I want to be absolutely clear about this -- no person will be disqualified from claiming asylum, who is fleeing persecution or any other immigration route if they have not committed a crime that would be applicable under Canadian law.

CO: Okay, I just want to stop you there sir, because what I'm saying is that some of the charges that have been leveled at pro-democracy activists might be regarded under Canadian law, even though they were used against people exercising their free speech or their democratic rights. The laws themselves would be consistent with Canadian law. So it's quite possible that many people will be disqualified because they have faced charges in Hong Kong.

MM: Well, and in those circumstances, if somebody has been deemed inadmissible because they were deemed to have committed potentially an offense under Canadian law, then I think the vast majority of Canadians, if not all Canadians, would understand that. Those admissibility requirements are there to ensure that we have an asylum system that is fair, that is transparent, and that does protect those of us who are here. But at the same time, the policies that I announced today do ensure that the national security law, which is one of the developments that we are concerned about, is not a barrier to claiming asylum.

CO: We spoke with Dennis Kwok yesterday. He is one of the pro-democracy members of the Hong Kong legislature who were expelled, one of the four. And what he said, he was born in Canada, he said that he doesn't want to have to leave. He wants to see the international community do more to make it so that he doesn't have to. And that's long been Canada's response to these situations where the effort is put into doing everything possible so that people don't have to flee their homes, they don't have to leave. Is this, in fact, kind of an admission that you can't change things, that the only course for these people is to leave?

MM: Well, I can't speak for his comments, but I certainly appreciate where he's coming from. And that's why, you know, today I emphasized that this is about expanding opportunities, that it is about providing additional routes and pathways for young Hong Kongers who may be seeking opportunities elsewhere, including in Canada. And it comes at a moment in time when we could certainly use the experience, the skills and the talent that they have to offer us.

CO: But my question, though, is that, is this an admission that there's nothing more you can do -- kind of showing up your hands and say, look, come to Canada, but we can't help you stay in Hong Kong?

MM: I don't think it's an admission, but I do think that Canada continues to be a very constructive partner on the world stage. And I think that our immigration policies, including the initiative I announced today, is consistent with our tradition and our values of being an open and inclusive country that believes that we benefit from the talent and the skills and the experience and the diversity of welcoming people from all around the world. And notwithstanding the fact that we are in the midst of a pandemic, we have found ways to proceed with safe and orderly immigration, and we will continue to chart out a course that builds on those traditions.

CO: Mr. Mendicino we'll leave it there. Thank you.

MM: Thank you very much for having me.

CH: Marco Mendicino is Canada's minister of immigration and refugees. We reached him in Ottawa, and you can find more on this story on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Windsor hospital CEO

Guest: David Musyj

CH: The CEO of Windsor Regional Hospital is usually too busy running the hospital to run errands, but last Sunday, David Musyj got a call that made him drop everything. Mr. Musyj volunteered to make the trip across the Canada-U.S. border to pick up a much needed drug for one of the hospital's patients. We reached him in Windsor.

CO: Mr. Musyj, tell us about this call you got on Sunday about a patient in your hospital who needed medication?

DAVID MUSYJ: Yes, I got a call from our staff at the hospital indicating we had a patient in our intensive care unit that needed a medication that unfortunately was not available in Ontario, but was available at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor campus.

CO: Can you tell us about the kind of medication, how rare is this medication?

DM: Well, it's very rare from the point of view that when we've looked across Ontario, there was only one hospital that had one dose of the medication available and we needed multiple doses of the medication. So then our process is to call to the hospitals across the border in Detroit and none of them had the medication. And then we had to fan out further.

CO: How urgent was it that this patient get this medication?

DM: It was immediate. The sooner the better. So we were under a time constraint as well as trying to figure out how and who would get across the border easiest to get back.

CO: So how is it decided that you, as the CEO of the hospital, should be the person to go and do the pickup?

DM: Well, in talking to the pharmacist, she did not have a visa to enter the United States and she hadn't worked over there. So me being a dual citizen, I knew I could get across the border automatically. They could not refuse my entry. So all I asked the pharmacist, as I said, listen, instead of you attempting to get to the border and being turned back, why don't I go? I know I can get across. And I said to her jokingly, but actually serious, all I need you to do is call the border and find out what I need when I return so I don't get thrown into jail with drug smuggling on my way back.

CO: All right. So how long did it take you to get over to Ann Arbor and get the medication and get back?

DM: It's about a 45 minute to an hour ride to get there. Of course, because of COVID, it was eerily quiet driving across the border into the United States. I haven't done it probably for nine months. So there was nobody there. And the entry into the United States was easy and uneventful.

CO: And what about coming back with your drugs?

DM: Yeah. So once I got to Ann Arbor, I was able to pick up the medication very easily. University of Michigan was fantastic. I came immediately back, got to the primary inspection at the border. The guard at the border said, I'm going to have to go over to secondary to talk to her supervisor. I went to secondary inspection, spoke to the supervisor, and he was concerned about the medication -- being able to bring the medication into the country. And I indicated to him that's kind of non-negotiable in the sense of this medication has to get to that patient in intensive care immediately. What you do with me, you can do whatever you want with me, but that medication has to get to a patient. So he went back inside, came outside with a Canadian public health officer -- again, very professional, very nice. And he indicated to me, okay, here's what we can do, you can drive by the hospital, but keep driving and basically roll down your window, have a staff member take the medication from you, but then you keep driving and go home and you're going to have to be quarantined for 14 days. And I said, okay, that'll work with me for now. And so I left.

CO: And this is lifesaving medication that you're carrying for this patient.

DM: Yes. Yeah.

CO: Okay, so did you have to slow the car down to 15 kilometres and toss it out the window or what?

DM: [Chuckles] Maybe a little slower. So I was creeping, so I was just letting the tires roll a little bit while I was waiting. And the staff member came down immediately and I rolled down the window. I kept the windows up for the whole time so I didn't have the windows down. And once a staff member came up, I rolled the window down. I was still wearing my PPE and handed it to the staff member and the staff member brought it up and it was administered to the patient.

CO: How is the patient doing it?

DM: The patient is critical. It's going to be tough. So our prayers are to the patient and the family. And we'll see. But again, the goal was to get the medication or the patient and also at the same time, the pharmacist didn't go over and isn't in quarantine, so as a result, she can continue to provide frontline care to patients who need it.

CO: And what about you? Are you under quarantine now?

DM: I'm under quarantine and I'm working with the federal government, not so much about my quarantine -- I don't know what they can do about that -- but definitely on a go forward basis is even though this only happened once during COVID, that means it can happen again. I just want to make sure if it does have to happen again, it's very clear what our process is and that we don't have these issues to be concerned about when someone has to go across the border and come back.

CO: What was your reaction to part of your staff to their CEO of the hospital doing this delivery?

DM: Well the pharmacist was upset when I called her on the way back and I explained to her what happened about the quarantine. And I said, don't worry, that's irrelevant. Our goal for the day was getting the medication and you as the pharmacist, being able to continue to provide frontline care to the patients. You know, people always ask me, so as a CEO, what do you do? I say I try to stay out of the way. So I just try to help.

CO: We have spoken with people in the medical profession who have sourced their own PPE or made it for themselves. We spoke with the doctor last week whose son was driving around getting flu vaccines. It's a new spirit, isn't it, that everyone says, what can I do? No one has this particular lane this day in in your profession, it seems.

DM: No, not at all. It's all hands on deck. We had to make the right decision and the best decision, and that was to get the medication of the patient and at the same time save ourselves, the pharmacist, to be able to continue to work and take care of patients. So that was the most important two things to happen. And they happened. And I agree with you, it's definitely all hands on deck.

CO: Mr. Musyj, I'm glad you were there and you were able to do that. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

DM: No, thank you. Take care and stay safe.

CH: David Musyj is the CEO of Windsor Regional Hospital. We reached him in Windsor, Ontario.

[Music]

Bear facial recognition

Guest: Melanie Clapham

CH: If you ever encountered a grizzly bear in the wild, your reaction might be to slowly back away and avoid direct eye contact. And later, if you are asked to describe its face, you might say, I'm pretty sure it had the face of a bear. Well, Melanie Clapham is more observant than that, but she's had more time. For 11 years, she's paid close attention to the faces of grizzly bears, taking hundreds of photos of them in British Columbia. And now her photos are helping to train facial recognition software to tell grizzlies apart. Melanie Clapham is a conservation biologist and postdoctoral research fellow at the University of Victoria. We reached her in East Sooke, B.C..

CO: Melanie, I think for most of us, if you have seen one grizzly bear up close, you have seen them all and that's just fine. But are they actually different?

MELANIE CLAPHAM: They are, yes. So if you haven't spent a lot of time around grizzly bears or looking at photos of them, yeah a lot of them can seem to appear quite similar. But if you spend quite a lot of time watching them and getting to know different individuals, then you start to be able to recognize them in a similar way that you can recognize, you know, your dog at home.

CO: I mean, for people, though, I guess if you're seeing a bear up close and looking into his eyes, you're just thinking about getting out of there so unlike your dog, who you like to look at. So how much time have you spent looking at the faces of grizzly bears?

MC: Yes, I've been studying them on the West Coast and the traditional territory of the Da'naxda'xw/Awaetlala First Nation in an area called Knights Inlet. And that's for about 11 years now, so quite a long time. A part of my research has involved behavioural analysis of grizzly bear, social behaviour in particular. And so we wanted to see whether there was a way that we could identify every single individual that we see. And so because bears don't have unique patterns on their bodies that we could use to identify them, we looked towards facial recognition to potentially provide a solution.

CO: And what are the distinguishing characteristics of bears faces? What could be different from one bear the other?

MC: Well, that's the question, to be honest. So the technique that we use, the type of artificial intelligence, it doesn't actually tell us what's important about a bear's face to identify them. Basically, it learns by experience. So we use thousands of photos of bears to train a recognition system. And this type of artificial intelligence is called deep learning. It learns what aspects of a best face are stable between individuals and within an individual. And so over time, as you train the system, it begins to recognize what aspects of the face stay the same, basically in an individual and uses that for identification.

CO: We recently did a story about the Fat Bear contest up in Alaska. And what was so interesting about that was to see how completely different the bears look from season to season, that once they have fattened up to go into hibernation, they are dramatically different in all aspects than they are in their scrawny emerging in the spring. So so how much can the artificial intelligence pick up the differences in times of year and as they age even?

MC: Absolutely. And that is one of the questions that we're interested to look at for this technology. You know, can it recognize the same bears when they first come out of hibernation and they still have their full winter coats and then they bolt that coats by the summer time and they can look quite skinny by that time of year? And then as they begin to put on weight towards the fall, they regrow that winter coat but it can be quite dark at that time of year as well. So absolutely, at different times of year, these bears can be very different. And that's why it's so difficult for humans to be able to track the changes and recognize individual bears over time. And so it's definitely one of the questions that we're interested to ask of the system is, is can it monitor these individual bears within a season, but also over years as they grow? We're still looking into that at the moment, but we're hopeful that it can so that this technology can track individual bears over time.

CO: Why is it important to be able to identify individual bears?

MC: Yeah, so a couple of reasons. We're really hopeful about how this technology could be used in combination with remote camera traps. So those are cameras that are set out in a forest or other environments and they automatically detect wildlife and they are used for population assessments for some species that can be recognized individually. And so we're hopeful that the combination of using this bear ID software with camera traps, it can help to facilitate population estimates, which obviously have a huge effect on conservation and management decisions.

CO: Some have suggested that one advantage of knowing the individual bears is that humans will become more protective, they will care more about the animals if they have an identity, if they have a narrative, a story, and that that actually might help with conservation. Do you see that?

MC: I do, yeah. I believe that humans yeah, we engage with individuals and we engage with stories. And so if we can use this type of software to engage the general public in these life history stories about bears, then, absolutely. They are individuals, we see that when we monitor them and when we watch them and observe them, they do have individual personalities. And so it would be great if we could use this software to allow people to understand a little bit more about them as well.

CO: So obviously, helping your work and your science. But on a personal level, what does it mean to you to be able to identify these barriers this way?

MC: It kind of opens up possibilities. There's a number of different research questions that I've been wanting to answer for years about their social behaviour. And for me personally, it would allow us to even go back in time and go back to some of the data that I started to collect using camera traps in 2009 and be able to ask different questions now that we are able to recognize different bears, that it opens up the possibilities in terms of research and monitoring for the species.

CO: Melanie, I wish you success with the. Thank you.

MC: Thank you very much Carol.

CH: Melanie Clapham is a conservation biologist at the University of Victoria. We reached her in East Sooke, B.C..

[Music]

Alexa

CH: Nowadays, smart speakers are extremely advanced, but our requirements aren't really that advanced at all. A 2018 study in the U.K. found that a full 20 percent of people mostly asked their speakers for help boiling an egg. Our simple needs seem to have driven smart speakers a little bonkers in the past. Couple of years ago, Alexa speakers suddenly started laughing, unprompted, sometimes in the middle of the night.

ALEXA: [Laughing sound]

CH: And this is how Alexa conveyed its frustration when a human made this weird request.

VOICE 1: Simon says, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

ALEXA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. [Voice cracks]

VOICE 1: What that...

CH: Oh no. Creepy. Now Alexa could be even creepier. Yesterday two Amazon, engineers revealed that now when you ask Alexa a question, it will infer a follow up question. For example, they wrote, if you ask it how long it takes to make a cup of tea, Alexa might answer that question, five minutes is a good place to start. Then follow up by asking, would you like me to set a timer for five minutes? That sounds helpful. But now people are complaining that Alexa won't shut up. One user claims he asked Alexa the time while he was in the shower, simple question, and the speaker answered him, but then added, By the way, any time is a good time to gift shop, would you like some product recommendations? There's such a thing as too much help. And if Alexa keeps plugging products and plugging its own helpfulness, it may find itself unplugged.

[Music]

Part 2: Migrant worker who took on boss and won is a 'very brave, exceptional man,' says lawyer

Ontario migrant worker lawyer

Guest: John No

CH: Gabriel Flores knew he could face serious consequences, but he spoke up anyway. The Mexican farm worker was employed by Scotlynn Growers in southern Ontario. One day in June, he raised concerns after nearly 200 of his coworkers became infected with COVID-19, including his bunkmate, who died of the virus. The next day, he was fired and ordered deported. But this week, the Ontario Labour Relations Board ruled that Scotlynn was in the wrong for firing Mr. Flores. He's being awarded 20,000 dollars in lost wages and 5,000 dollars in damages. John No is Mr. Flores's lawyer. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Mr. No, how does your client, Gabriel Flores, how does he feel to know that this labour board agreed with him that he never should have been fired?

JOHN NO: Well, I think it's mostly of relief. Of course he's happy, but he's gone through a lot in the last six months. He went through the anxiety of being fired, being almost being sent back home in the middle of the night and have to rely on the charity of others for the last six months. So I think it's mostly a relief that it's done and that he's been vindicated.

CO: He did something that I would think is very difficult for a temporary foreign worker to do, he challenged his boss about the conditions. Why was he compelled to do that?

JOHN NO: I mean, he challenge the boss in two ways, in the sense that before he got fired, he challenged his boss by speaking out about the health and safety conditions at work. I mean, one of his bunkmates died and then the second time he challenged them was after he got fired. He decided that he was going to stand up for himself, despite the fact that his boss is a multinational, huge corporation. And he did it because he knew that this case was more than just about himself, it was about all the migrant farm workers who are put in this vulnerable, precarious situation.

CO: And this is, of course, vulnerable, precarious because of the pandemic, which is how his bunkmate died -- he died of COVID. Is that right?

JOHN NO: Yes. But his precarious and vulnerabilities stand long before the COVID-19.It stems from the fact that migrant farm workers come here on what we call closed work permit. That means that they can't work for any other employer and that the employer has all the power in the sense that if they don't like you, they could just repeat you back to your home country. In fact, that's what the employers tried to do in this case the very next day that he complained about safety issues.

CO: Can you remind us of the conditions that your client says were at this farm at the time of the COVID-19 outbreak?

JOHN NO: They all lived in bunkhouses. In the bunkhouse, there was roughly about 50 to 60 people per bunkhouse. They lived in an apartment with 13 other people within that bunkhouse. So there was no way to socially distance. And in fact, that's what happened. Above 199 of the farm workers on Scotlynn Farms out of about 221 contracted COVID-19 and one of his bunkmates that he shared the apartment with died because of that.

CO: Right. And so those are the conditions. But to not accept those, you could be deported pretty quickly, right?

JOHN NO: Well, that's what happened when the company announced to the workers of Mr. Juan Lopez Chaparro's death in a group meeting -- Mr. Flores, our client, he spoke out and he said, look, the company should have done more, he was sick for a week and you didn't do anything to help him, perhaps he could be alive today if you guys done more. And the company reacted by saying, who are you to say that? He's not even your family member. And the very next day, the founder of the company came to his bunkhouse, put it to a video another worker had made of complaining about the working conditions, accuse him of being the person in the video and told him that his going back to Mexico the same day.

CO: How did he avoid being deported at that point?

JOHN NO: This is where luck came in through some other contacts, he happened to be connected previously to a professor in Western University. So he contacted her, who then contacted an organization called Migrant Workers Alliance for Change, who then arranged for him to be picked up by someone who is a friend -- to take him to a safe house. And through that, we were contacted, the legal clinic.

CO: And what did the company and the people who fired him, what did they say in their defense about this before the Ontario Labour Relations Board?

JOHN NO: Well, they denied that they fired him. They say that he quit and that the founder of the company, they alleged that he couldn't have fired him because he was on an island for Father's Day. He didn't bring any witnesses to corroborate it. The board found that his testimony was evasive and that our client was telling the truth. And fortunately, we also had a co-worker who witnessed what happened, who was also sent back to Mexico, and he testified from Mexico City and he confirmed what had happened as well. So the board had no problem deciding that the company was not telling the truth.

CO: This case, what do you think that may have done for temporary foreign workers? What has Mr. Flores actually brought to light here?

JOHN NO: That's the key point he brought to light issues for the general population. But this has been an open secret for decades among the industry, among people who work with migrant farm workers, which is if you are deemed a troublemaker by your employer, you are fired or repatriated back to your home country or you're not brought back the next season. What his case has done is to confirm that this happens in Canada. But what we have to be aware of is the legal process is only reactive. The conditions that causes this exploitation and vulnerability still exist. This decision hasn't changed any of that. And if we want to act proactively to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone again, we need a fair immigration system that allows workers to choose who they work for and to be able to quit if they work for a bad employer and for them to have stable immigration status from day one.

CO: Is there any long term repercussions for Mr. Flores? Is he now a marked man, a troublemaker who may not be able to get work again, as he's been doing for years to support his family?

JOHN NO: Well, that's why Mr. Flores is very very brave and exceptional man. At the end of the day, even though he's been vindicated, this -- yeah, the vulnerability still exists for him.

CO: Does he have a job now?

JOHN NO: Luckily, he did get a temporary open work permit and he has found a factory job very recently.

CO: All right. We will leave it there, Mr. No, thank you.

JOHN NO: Thank you so much.

CH: John No is the lawyer who represented Gabriel Flores, a Mexican migrant worker who won a case against a southern Ontario farm at the Ontario Labour Relations Board this week, we reached out to Scotlynn Growers for comment, but we did not receive a response. And for more on this story, go to: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Theme and Dogs

CH: If the first few bars of the As It Happens theme make you throw your head back and howl with delight, Gillian Stockvis-Hauer wants you to know you are not alone. Ms. Stockvis-Hauer recently left the following message in our inbox. "Dear As It Happens, probably you are not interested, but for reasons unknown, my dog is very attached to the theme song for As It Happens, it's terribly funny. I'm usually in the car when your show comes on in Vancouver and one of my dogs howls. It's got something to do with the entire package, Carol Off's voice and the theme song combo." Of course, we were very interested. So Ms. Stockvis-Hauer kindly passed along this recording of her three year old flat coated retriever, Cole.

RECORDING: Hello, I'm Carol Off. Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens. [Dog howls in background]

CH: Not bad for a quadruped. Thank you Gillian Stockvis-Hauer and of course, thank you Cole. Cole's rendition of our theme actually reminded us of another canine with some serious vocal chops. In 2005, our former host, Mary Lou Finlay, spoke with Nancy LoPresti about her dog Pickles, and Pickles's love of the As It Happens theme song.

NANCY LOPRESTI: She is a toy poodle. She's about four and a half years old and she's very hairy. She needs a haircut. And she looks more like a teddy bear than a poodle actually. She's just a very sweet, friendly dog.

MARY LOU FINLAY: Blonde or Brunette?

NANCY LOPRESTI: She's blond with a little bit of apricot on her.

MARY LOU FINLAY: Oh, lovely. So she likes the theme song. Does she?

NANCY LOPRESTI: Yes, she does.

MARY LOU FINLAY: And how does she demonstrate that?

NANCY LOPRESTI: You come on at 6:30 and she just puts her head back and away she goes. And I think the tip-off is when you say Hello, I'm Mary Lou Finlay and her ears just pick right up. And then when the music starts away she goes.

MARY LOU FINLAY: Now, we could take that howling any one of two ways, I guess, couldn't we?

NANCY LOPRESTI: Oh, I think it's a happy howl. [Laughter]

MARY LOU FINLAY: Oh, good.

NANCY LOPRESTI: I think so. If she's not too excited when she sings, she actually kind of sings with the music. You know, she has a gentle howl sometimes. If there's company, then she kind of gets a bit screechy, you know, because she knows she's performing,.

MARY LOU FINLAY: She is showing off.

NANCY LOPRESTI: Yeah, we have a lot of music in our house and I think that she just reacts to it.

MARY LOU FINLAY: So shall we give it a whirl? Is she there?

NANCY LOPRESTI: She's here. And I'll put it on -- just one moment.

MARY LOU FINLAY: Are you going to play the theme for her?

NANCY LOPRESTI: I'm going to play it for her. All right. Just a second. [Dog barks] [Theme plays and dog beings to howl] How's that?

MARY LOU FINLAY: I don't think I'll ever hear the theme again without hearing Pickles's lovely soprano.

NANCY LOPRESTI: Well, she's a good little dog. I got her originally for my mum and dad, who used to live with me. They were old and they were lonely, so we got Pickles. And Grandma used to always say -- she used to chew things as a puppy and get into trouble -- and Grandma would say, oh, look at you, you're always in a Pickle. And some that we called her Pickles.

MARY LOU FINLAY: Right. Yeah. Lovely to hear her today.

NANCY LOPRESTI: Well, thank you.

MARY LOU FINLAY: Shall we do that one more time?

NANCY LOPRESTI: We'll do it again. Just one moment. [Theme plays and dog howls]

CH: From 2005, Mary Lou Finlay speaking with Nancy LoPresti about her As It Happens theme song loving dog Pickles, the toy poodle.

[Music]

Stonehenge tunnel

Guest: David Jacques

CH: For years, archeologists and druids have fought against it, but today the U.K. government gave the go ahead for a tunnel to be dug under Stonehenge. For decades, the government has been trying to find a solution to bottleneck traffic on the busy A303 near the World Heritage site. But there's been fierce opposition from experts who fear that important pieces of history will be lost. Among the people who oppose the newly approved underground tunnel is David Jacques. He's a professor of archeology at the University of Buckingham and he's been working on a site near Stonehenge called Blick Mead. We reached Professor Jacques just outside Cambridge, England.

CO: David, what do you make of the decision by the UK government to approve this tunnel under Stonehenge?

DAVID JACQUES: Oh, I am utterly ashamed. And I think I'm afraid, you know, this is not something that's exclusive to Britain -- at the moment it is another case of science playing second fiddle to politics.

CO: We spoke with you about this back in 2017. But maybe you can just remind our listeners about this tunnel, where it's going to be built and what it will look like.

DJ: Yeah, sure. Well, basically, the tunnel will go right across the UNESCO designated World Heritage site. So it's sort of crossing a two mile gash right down the middle of it. And the intention is to go underneath the area where you'd have a free site of the stones, the thinking being that it is going to increase journey times, increased traffic flow and make the place quieter. The argument, which is the one I have and which I think most experts and specialists have, is having looked at the data, you can see that the journey times will only have a fractional boost and actually has a massive cost, which is essentially losing a lot of our stories.

CO: Now, there are organizations, Historic England and the National Trust -- they argue that diverting the roads underground would actually enhance the Stonehenge site. What do you say to them?

DJ: Well, I think it's pretty clear, really, that they're wrong. So just so that your listeners can get a good sense of it. Now, of course, Stonehenge is beautiful and there it is sort of centre of the landscape. But if you go there and I'm sure a lot of people who are listening have, you'll be aware that Stonehenge isn't in isolation. It's basically responding to other monuments in the landscape, some of which are a lot older. And basically you've almost got a if you like, a liturgical arrangements. So you need to be able to move around that landscape in order to appreciate it well. And what is what is happening here is that won't be happening. I think the really bigger point, if that's okay for me to say this Carol, is that our governments instituted an inspectorate to have a look at the data sets and they reported in January but we've only just found out today what they reported. And guess what? They say the scheme shouldn't happen. And I think so English Heritage, you would imagine, would have been fitting in with what the inspectorate was saying. For goodness sake you would have expected them to be fitting in with UNESCO's position, which is, you know, the protector of all World Heritage sites. They were very clear that the scheme would damage the archeology in the landscape.

CO: I just wanted to ask you, because you mentioned that there's more than just the Stonehenge, that one site. There's a liturgical landscape, you said. And in June, we talked to an archeologist who discovered a large circle of deep shafts around Stonehenge and others have seen other things that line up for miles away. So is that threatened to be lost, that that connectivity with a larger archeological site?

DJ: Well, that's so beautifully put. That's absolutely right. It is that, indeed it is that connectivity. It will either to be lost. So, for example, with my site, which is Blick Meads, because the eight metre high flyover is going to drain the spring there and that will destroy the organics. And you mentioned Professor Vince Gaffney, who's a friend of mine, who discovered the shaft circle. On our site, we've had a very recent discovery which I'm happy to share with your listeners where we found DNA from 43 different plant species but dates to over 8000 years old. And this is wonderful because it means that you can reconstruct what the landscape looked like. So that story will be lost. So that aspects of the connectivity goes in other places -- the archeology will be either destroyed or disturbed. All in all, it is a real dog's breakfast. But bearing in mind the people in the Hunter-Gatherer periods and in the prehistoric periods generally couldn't read and write, I think this is equivalent of book burning for prehistory because we're just going to trash the evidence. And it's desperately sad for youngsters and for generations to come. I think Stonehenge, it isn't just about itself or about Britain, it's for the whole world.

CO: Right. And I hate to go from the sublime to the prosaic here, but your government has a traffic problem they're trying to fix. So if this isn't the way to do it, what is?

DJ: What I would do is I would take a tip from North America and I would make a national park around Stonehenge. It seems to me most national parks are commercially successful, they're fantastic places for ecology, for all sorts of habitats and history and archeology. And, you know, they're very good for mental health and wellness. And so that's what I would do. And I would make sure that the traffic goes around the designated, which is not particularly big sized World Heritage sites and just fit around the archeology rather than the archeology having to fit round cars.

CO: Well, we haven't spoken with you since 2017 and you've been able to put it off till now -- perhaps you will still be successful, you and the others who are threatening to lie down in front of the bulldozers if it comes to that. So we will keep in touch and it is good to talk to you.

DJ: The judicial review, and that's coming because if I can just say succinctly, the government is breaking international treaty with UNESCO, but it is mind numbingly stupid and very expensive. But I'm afraid and I'm not normally a very political person, but our government does have a bit of previous on it, like some other governments in the world. You know, we've got to keep hope alive.

CO: Well, we'll keep in touch with the story. And thanks for speaking with us David.

DJ: Okay. Best wishes. Thank you very much to everybody.

CH: David Jacques is a professor of archeology at the University of Buckingham. We reached him near Cambridge, England.

[Music]

Sound of the day: Stefano Bozzini

CH: Italy had a terrible time at the start of the pandemic, and like a lot of places, it's having a terrible time again. Along with the US and Brazil, Italy has one of the highest death tolls. Just yesterday, the Italian health ministry recorded 623 deaths in one day, the highest number since April. But Italians are remaining brave in the face of the virus and finding creative ways to cope and stay close despite the grinding restrictions. Those restrictions meant 81 year old Stefano Bozzini was not allowed to visit his wife, who was in hospital recently. Since he couldn't sit inside with her, he sat outside her window with his accordion and serenaded her with love songs. This is our Sound of the Day, Mr. Bozzini playing Spanish Eyes by Engelbert Humperdinck. [Spanish Eyes being played on an Accordion]

[Music]

Marc Curial

CH: Early on in the pandemic, Dr. Marc Curial had a close call. The Edmonton E.R. physician was hooking a patient up to a ventilator when he felt air leaking around his mask. He hadn't shaved that day and N95 respirator he was wearing was loose because of the stubble on his face. Today, Dr. Curial spoke with CBC Calgary about how that experience inspired him to develop a new device called an aerosol containment tent that provides another layer of protection for health care workers treating COVID patients.

MARC CURIAL: There's a lot of fear and a lot of anxiety in the health care field right now when you're taking care of a patient and you're not really sure, are they positive or not? So we're currently treating everybody as if they are.

DAVID GRAY: And from what we understand, the N95 mask is the gold standard, it is the one you should be wearing but you're feeling air coming in around it, so you start thinking about what you can do about it. So tell me what happened then.

MARC CURIAL: Yeah, so we actually had a medical device company already working on a completely different project. We're looking at trauma resuscitation and people who are getting in car crashes and trying to help them in the field. And this COVID close call happened for me. And my business partner and I take a look at our team and we say we should do something about this. Let's put our project on hold and let's get the team involved. And from idea to Health Canada regulated, ready for market using mostly in-Alberta fabricators, metal workers, machine shops, people who are out of work from oil and gas to produce this thing for us. We ended up going to market in under five months.

DAVID GRAY: All right. Describe this thing.

MARC CURIAL: Yeah, easiest description. It's a virus vacuum.

DAVID GRAY: A virus vacuum. From the picture I saw, it looks like a tent. So explain to me how it works.

MARC CURIAL: Exactly right. So we have a metal frame with disposable plastic containment units or a tent that goes around a patient's head and neck and it shapes to allow physicians, respiratory therapists to be able to reach in and access the patient, do intubations, perform procedures, ergonomically fit on operating room beds. But the key is it's more than just a Plexiglas shield like you see at Costco when you go and get your groceries that's protecting the cash register there. It's actually attached to a really high flow HVAC system with HEPA filter, which is over 99 percent effective at filtering out particles the size of airborne COVID droplets. And that creates negative pressure. So that sucks any potential, you know, aerosols that are created from these procedures which can spread for 10 metres and stay infectious for up to three hours, and it stops them from getting out of the patient and into the room and traps them inside our filter instead.

DAVID GRAY: It sounds like your bubble wrapping patients with a vacuum cleaner attached to it.

MARC CURIAL: That was our initial idea because we thought, how can we get this in quickly? Let's get some PVC tarp shot back and see what happens -- that is where it evolves from. So we're not pretending that we are making the world's most technologically innovative solution here. We're seeing the need and we're feeling it was something quick that could save lives.

CH: Dr. Marc Curial speaking with David Gray on The Eyeopener today. The Edmonton E.R. physician developed an aerosol containment tent to help protect health care workers from contracting COVID while treating patients.

[Music]

Part 3: SCC: Sex assault testimony

SCC: Sex assault testimony

Guest: Suzan Fraser

CH: The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that stereotypes about people with mental disabilities have no place in the courtroom. The case involves a young woman who was sexually abused by a neighbour. The Supreme Court upheld the conviction of Thomas Slatter, rejecting a lower court ruling that threw the victim's testimony into doubt because of her disability. Suzan Fraser is a lawyer who intervened in the case on behalf of groups advocating for women and people with disabilities. We reached her in Toronto.

CO: Ms. Fraser, what will this ruling mean for people with disabilities?

SUZAN FRASER: Well, I think it will tell them that they can come to court and tell their story and be judged on their actual capacities as women, as a person with a disability, that your evidence will be treated as anybody else's and subject to the same consideration by the trial judge.

CO: The court is protecting this young woman's identity with the publication ban. But if you can tell us in general terms, what happened to her.

SF: So she was a young person who was living with some community support and one of the friends of the people that she lived with, she started walking the dogs with that person and that led to her being assaulted sexually by that person who was close in relationship to the people that she lived with. So she made a report. She told people close to her, it was reported to the police. She testified at trial. The trial judge believed her evidence and the person was convicted and sentenced to time in the penitentiary. But on appeal, the Court of Appeal majority faulted the trial judge for not addressing the question of her suggestibility.

CO: So the person in question and we can name the person who was the perpetrator, Thomas Slatter, initially convicted of sexually assaulting her. And as you say, went to the appeals court and the suggestibility was presented by an expert witness is a kind of scale of suggestibility. What does it actually mean?

SF: Well, we are all suggestible. We're all suggestible. And so the expert was called for another purpose relating to the complainant's intellectual disability. But in the context of providing that expert evidence, she scored the complainant on what she called the suggestibility scale, which I understand to be a valid psychological score, but it's placed on a normative curve. So she was placed at the 75 percentile and the norm, so-called normal is that the 50 percentile. So she was thought to be more suggestible. But what the expert also said was that for things that are personal and emotive and sexual assault is both very personal and significantly emotive, she would be less suggestible. So at the end of the day, the trial judge really had to assess whether suggestions had been put to her and whether she was moved on any of her allegations. And she wasn't. So it was concerning when it got to the Court of Appeal that they focused on this issue when it took away from the testimony that she gave in court.

CO: The Supreme Court ruled unanimously in reinstating this conviction. What did they say about this whole idea of her suggestibility and how that was used in the appeals court?

SF: Well, they gave their judgment and for the reasons by the dissenting judge, Justice Pepall of the Court of Appeal for Ontario. So Justice Pepall said the trial judge gave his reasons and she looked through the trial record to see whether this complainant had been moved on any of her evidence about the core issues and found that she had not been. And so what the Supreme Court said is we agree with what Justice Pepall did, but we also give this caution. And the caution really is around ensuring that these general descriptions by an expert don't detract from the person's actual capacities as they demonstrate in the witness box. The focus should be on their ability to perceive events, recall events and recount them just as they would for any other person.

CO: And they said that overreliance on these generalities make harmful myths and stereotypes about individuals with disabilities -- and they're against the whole truth seeking process, is what the court said in its statement.

SF: Yes, a very, very powerful statement about women with disabilities, about because women with disabilities are disproportionately victims of sexual violence. So not only is it a victory for persons with disabilities, but this is a very gendered crime. And so what the court is saying quite powerfully is that we are not to be swayed by generalizations that the focus should be squarely on the person. And the court has recognized not only in this decision, but in other decisions just how these labels can affect our thinking about a person with bias, with stereotypes. And so it's a step forward.

CO: This all began for this woman in 2009, three court cases going all the way to the Supreme Court. Do you have any idea how she's feeling now that it's over and that the Supreme Court said that she should be believed?

SF: No, as interveners, we don't meet the complainant typically, but I really hope that she feels that it was the right thing to do, to come forward, to know that her testimony made a difference, to know that she was believed and that other people who might be labeled with similar disabilities will know that they can come to court and they can tell their story and they can be believed in that. You know, I hope that she knows that she contributed to that evolving quest for equality.

CO: Mr. Fraser, thank you.

SF: You're welcome.

CH: Suzan Fraser is a lawyer who intervened in a recent Supreme Court of Canada case on behalf of several rights groups. She was in Toronto.

[Music]

Fort Frances road

Guest: Douglas Judson

CH: Douglas Judson thinks it might be time for his local community to change the name of one of its local thoroughfares. Fort Frances is in northern Ontario. Mr. Judson is a town councillor there, and the thoroughfare in question is called Colonization Road. We reached Councillor Judson in Fort Frances.

CO: Councillor Judson, when did it occur to you that it might be time Fort Frances to rename Colonization Road?

DOUGLAS JUDSON: Well, this has been a topic that's been debated about in coffee shops and in the community for a few years. And I think that that discussion really finds its origins around people, particularly people of the settler community, coming to terms with what colonization means and what the context of that concept means for people who are different than them in the community. And for that, I really trace it back to the broad public understanding that flowed from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report. So it's been a longstanding issue in the community. For me, the most immediate trigger I've been thinking about at this council term, but just a week or two ago, we had a new OPP station opened and there was a ribbon cutting. And when I drove past it in the days which followed, there's a sign in front that says that it's on Colonization Road. And I just thought we need to move past, you know, associating colonization with institutional power like that.

CO: Especially that -- having the police station on or near Colonization Road, I guess is an extra irritant.

DOUGLAS JUDSON: Absolutely. I think that it just sort of perpetuates a very oppressive ideology that has had a significant impact on a lot of people that live in our district.

CO: You said elsewhere that you had an “aha” moment when you realized what the term, what the Colonization Road, how hurtful it was to others. So when you have when you're trying to describe to others, when you're trying to explain why it has to be changed, what do you say? What do you tell them about what Colonization Road, what it might mean to Indigenous people in your community?

DOUGLAS JUDSON: I try to help people who are maybe not at the same place and their understanding of the concept. I try to help them see it from the perspective of their history. And I think that a lot of the misunderstanding comes from the fact that, you know, myself and others were educated, I think, in a system that really started our historical perspective from the point of, you know, the pioneer days and people who were given free land to build Canada and this great nation and sort of the Cinderella story of what our country is. But the other side of that story is the colonization wasn't a great force for other people. And in fact, you know, our community is central to, you know, the colonizing project. We are the site of a former residential school. People have been forcibly relocated from lands. These are stories that people are not that far removed from in our midst. And yet there is a very limited understanding of the extent of that impact.

CO: So Fort Frances is not the only place that has a Colonization Road. What's the genesis of that name?

DOUGLAS JUDSON: The best I've been able to find in my own research is going back into the old timey statutes from the former province of Canada. And at the time there was provision made for colonization roads. This was in 1853 to allow settlers access to colonized lands. In 1913, after a post confederation, those roads were transferred to their local municipalities. So that would have been about the time that Fort Frances inherited its colonization road. Now the term colonization road is generic. Not all of them are named just generically for colonization. Some of them have other names. But in our region there are several Colonization roads and avenues and streets in many communities, and some of them have addressed that and renamed them. So the city of Kenora just went through that process a few years ago. There's an active movement in the city of Dryden, which isn't far from us. But elsewhere in the region, a similar discussion is unfolding.

CO: What do you hearing from Indigenous people? Fort Frances is in the middle of Treaty Three territory. So is their sense is that this is something that has to happen and maybe even is slow to happen after all these years?

DOUGLAS JUDSON: Absolutely. I think that there is a desire to see meaningful steps taken towards reconciliation. And our community has come a long way in the last two years. And I really credit my colleagues on council. We have a joint declaration of friendship with four of the surrounding First Nation communities. We open our council meetings just in this past year with territorial acknowledgments, and we have an ongoing dialog with neighbouring First Nation leadership. So we have a leader to leader communication going on. And I think that, you know, looking to specific concrete things we can do like this, like engaging in a discussion about what colonization means in our local context is important. And that's kind of the thrust of the feedback that I am hearing. And I have, you know, received a lot of support from Indigenous community leaders in the region. But the thrust of that feedback is that let's make it part of a meaningful process and dialog to make sure that people understand what that legacy means for Indigenous people in the region, because, you know, council has the power -- we could rename it, you know, Darth Vader Lane next week if we wanted to, but that wouldn't really accomplish anything from a social well-being and adjudicative perspective. And we've tried to or I've tried to fence in the parameters of the discussion by setting, you know, what sort of theme we should be looking to rename the roadway. And most of the comments I've seen have actually been along the lines of this is good and overdue, we should do this, and the questions they have a practical. And I think that that signals that there has been some crystallization of what this concept means and how out of step it is with our modern realities and the type of community we want to be.

CO: Presumably, Darth Vader Lane is not going to be in your future. So have you or others floated ideas about what Colonization Road might be named?

DOUGLAS JUDSON: You know, I've seen a few comments online, and I'm certainly, you know, I don't think it's for me to choose. And I'm seeing a lot of suggestions around, you know, reconciliation or, you know, treaty and concepts like this that reflect the nation to nation basis upon which our community is founded. And I think all those are fair game, if we get to that point. For now, I'm focused on having a productive discussion with my fellow councillors and our mayor on setting in place a process to allow people to engage in that and having a healthy community dialog on this issue.

CO: We'll leave it there. Councillor Judson, thank you.

DOUGLAS JUDSON: Thank you very much.

CH: Douglas Judson is a town councillor in Fort Frances, Ontario. That's where we reached him.

[Music]

Reading: Tickling The Scar

CH: Matthew Hollett's poem "Tickling the Scar" was inspired by the thaw after last winter in Montreal and by the early stages of the city's COVID-19 pandemic. And its publication today is timely because COVID-19 numbers are climbing again and winter is coming again. But for Mr. Hollett, at least, there's good news. His poem just won him the 2020 CBC Poetry Prize, and 6,000 dollars from the Canada Council for the Arts. It's not all bad news for us either, because while the poem is grim, it's also beautiful, filled with ominous warnings, but also herons and blackbirds and the relief of a deep breath taken beside Montreal's Lachine Canal. Here's Matthew Hollett reading Tickling the Scar

MATTHEW HOLLETT: In spring the ice on the Lachine Canal melts

into algae blooms and great blue herons. Grackles

and red-winged blackbirds warble urgent duets

with distant ambulances. Thousands of Montrealers

are drowning in their beds. I walk the canal

because I'm grateful to breathe, even through a mask,

and because it feels spacious. Less petri dish. Along the path,

freshly-dredged jumbles of crossbars and wheels

are so consumed by zebra mussels that you can barely tell

they used to be bicycles. A survivor of the virus describes

feeling as though a bag of rice was being dropped on her chest

every time she took a breath. Seagulls drop bivalve shells

on the canal's concrete walls, where they split open

into pairs of tiny desiccated lungs. Whenever I see a single one,

I imagine its partner coughed up on the opposite side of the water.

There are nursing homes where staff have deserted en masse.

A man takes a job at one because it's the only way

to be with his father. He sobs when describing to a reporter

"the stench of urine, feces and disinfectant." A rainbow

is painted over its front entrance. At CHSLD Herron,

a relief nurse finds ninety-year-olds so dehydrated

they're unable to speak, "with urine bags full to bursting."

They bring the army in, repurpose refrigerated trucks

as morgues. Songbirds build nests with discarded masks.

I think of walking the canal as tickling the scar.

Tracing a fault line between "before" and "normal."

There was a lake here, before it was torn

into an industrial corridor. A long blue lung.

It's slowly healing over. You can sit on the grass

and watch herons stitch it back together

while your phone shows you horror after horror.

They're reopening the restaurants tomorrow.

CH: That's CBC Poetry Prize winner Matthew Hollett, reading his winning submission, Tickling the Scar. Mr. Hollett's poem has been published at: cbcbooks.ca. And his prize is 6,000 dollars from the Canada Council for the Arts and a writing residency at the Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity.

[Music]

Video doorbells

CH: Now, a lesson from the school of hard knocks. Sorry, make that the school of firey ding dongs. As you may be aware, video doorbells are really hot right now because they can stream live video from your doorbell to your smartphone. But in the case of one popular model video, doorbells are way too hot right now. People are reporting that they've been burned by some models of Amazon's ring video doorbells. The ring doorbells have also been responsible for a number of fires which caused minimal damage, but maximal buyer's remorse. Turns out using the wrong screws can damage the battery, which can damage people and property. And the company has recalled the item, which is great. But the thing is, the doorbell has actually come under fire from numerous groups, from privacy advocates to the U.S. Senate, which warned that the sharing of ring gathered data posed a national security risk, not to mention like Amazon's overzealous Alexa, which I mentioned earlier, it's creepy. You may be a fan of the preservation of camera free public space, the security of your data or your nation, and burn free homes and finger scan. And when it comes to all of the above, if you like it then you shouldn't put a ring on it.

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November 12, 2020 Episode Transcript

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