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The Current Transcript for September 25, 2020

Host: Matt Galloway

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

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We kind of voted for Donald Trump on a hope and a prayer. Nobody ever dreamed he would come up with a novel idea of actually doing what he promised.

MATT GALLOWAY: Five weeks out from an unprecedented election, the United States remains anything but united when it comes to its president. In 30 minutes, we pull our RV into Iowa on our virtual road trip down the Mississippi. How are those who voted for Trump feeling four years later? Well, we'll find out. Also this morning, it was a year ago that millions of young people were out on the streets demanding action on climate change. Not this year, for obvious reasons, but the cause has not gone away. And then.

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He was enslaved in the south, but then transcended race, a big, amiable black cowboy all alone in his blackness. In southern Alberta.

MG: In an hour, the remarkable story of the black cowboy John where and his place in Alberta and Canadian history has covered cases climb in Canada, though. We begin with a look around the world or what might be coming our way. Good and bad. Good morning. Happy Friday. I'm Matt Galloway. This is The Current.

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The state of the pandemic around the world,

Guests: Noga Tarnpolsky, Michael Head, Luisella Romeo

MG: When this pandemic began, the main focus was on flattening the curve. Physical distancing and lockdowns helped. And so after months of these measures, many countries, including Canada, have seen life return somewhat to normal. But with looser restrictions, second, waves are rolling across the globe. And so this morning, we're going to cheque in on some of the places where mounting cases have prompted a return to lockdown. In Israel, the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, announced a second lockdown, saying the country is at the edge of an abyss. Noga Tarnpolsky as a journalist in Jerusalem. Noga. Good morning.

NOGA TARNPOLSKY: Good morning.

MG: At the edge of an abyss does not sound good. What is life like on the streets of Jerusalem right now?

NOGA TARNPOLSKY: Well, life is not like on a normal, bustling Friday. I can tell you that most people are staying indoors. You do see I'm outdoors and you see some kind of construction work going on, one or two cars, but it's basically empty. And the main feeling is one of great confusion, I'd say, because the government has made all sorts of announcements, but in fact hasn't managed to pass most of these new rules by the parliament. So, everyone, this is in a kind of limbo.

MG: If those rules get passed, what will that mean? I mean, what won't you be able to do under this period of lockdown?

NOGA TARNPOLSKY: If the rules pass, you won't be able to go to work. You won't be able to be more than a kilometre away from your home unless you can prove a compelling reason to be. You won't be able, in fact, to leave your house for any reason. That's not essential. You can't gather with people even outdoors. Not more than, I think 15 or 20 people. That's still unclear. The two controversial parts of what the government is trying to do is make an exception for synagogues. So Sunday night begins Yom Kippur, it's a very holy day in the Jewish calendar. And it's really a hugely important prayer for many people to be able to make communally. So the government wants to make that exception. But the health authorities of the country say that if that exception is made, it's going to even cause thousands of deaths because a synagogue atmosphere, which people pray out loud, singing in a closed space, is basically a public health catastrophe. The government is using the excuse of wanting to limit synagogues to only 20 people to try and limit protests. There's been a really swelling movement of tens of thousands of people protesting against Prime Minister Netanyahu every week, regularly. He's on trial now for three corruption charges and he's mismanaged the crisis. So he's trying. Initially, it seemed he was trying to limit the protest. The law is very, very strict here in that respect. Protesting is a constitutional right in Israel. So it's been very controversial. And there's no public health reason to do it because the protests have not been vectors of disease.

MG: How are people feeling about the fact - I mean, having gone through, you know, heavy, heavy duty lockdown in the spring - how are people feeling about the fact that so many of the things that they could enjoy could be taken away again?

NOGA TARNPOLSKY: I would have to use a kind of Middle Eastern emotion for that. And I would tell you that people here are enraged aged. Yes, people are furious because they understand that this is preventable. Both a public health disaster was preventable and the economic calamity that's coming with it was preventable. And one of the reasons they believe that is that all of the finance ministry and health ministry experts who are exasperated by the government's inability to act have come out publicly and said that in recent days. So there's a lot of public anger. There's also a kind of a question of national pride involved because Israel is in a unique position in that the initial lockdown, which started very early here. Israel started, for example, closing its borders in late January. It was very successful. And so when the lockdown was lifted in late May, there were about 250 fatalities from COVID in Israel. That's it. And Israelis felt very proud that they had been disciplined, that the lockdown had worked. Everyone was worried economically, but people basically felt good about themselves. And now, you know, three and half months later, Israel is the top country and new cold cases a day there 7300 new cases diagnosed last 24 hours. And they fee,l Israelis feel, that they've been misled and The Current failure is not due to them. And there's a lot of public anger.

MG: How does the situation in Israel compared to what's happening in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip right now?

NOGA TARNPOLSKY: Well, in the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority is the government and they have actually handled the situation much better than Israel has. It's obviously a smaller government, smaller territory. But I think if I'm not mistaken, the number of fatalities is under 200. The lockdown has been effective. I have a lot of friends, for example, in Bethlehem who complain when they see people out on the streets without masks. But the fact is that basically the population has been disciplined and that's been kept under control. Gaza is a completely different situation, a besieged enclave ruled by Hamas, this Islamist militia. And they're basically you have Gaza and local doctors working very hard and some U.N. infrastructure. There are 17 dead so far in Gaza. It's not great, but it has not exploded in the way that many feared it could.

MG: Noga, take care of yourself. And I appreciate you speaking with us this morning.

NOGA TARNPOLSKY: My pleasure. Thank you.

MG: That's freelance journalist Noga Tarnopolsky in Jerusalem. Now to the United Kingdom, where they recorded six thousand six hundred thirty four new covered cases yesterday. It's the highest reported figures since the pandemic began. The government has brought back some lockdown era restrictions in response to those high numbers. How are they being received in the U.K.? Michael Head is an epidemiologist and senior research fellow in global health at the University of South Hampton in England. Michael. Good morning to you.

MICHAEL HEAD: Good morning. Thank you for inviting me on.

MG: Thanks for being here. How would you characterise the situation in the U.K. right now compared to at the height of that first wave back in the spring?

MICHAEL HEAD: Well, I think we probably can compare the situation now to the height from the spring. We've got large numbers of confirmed cases per day. We've got restrictions in place, albeit not the full lockdown that we saw a few months back. So clearly, all grafts are going off at the wrong direction. So hopefully some of these restrictions will start to bend the curve and bring the number of new cases per day back down a bit.

MG: What are the new restrictions in the U.K.? What's different about life now?

MICHAEL HEAD: So, as I said, we've not got the full lockdown. We have to stay at home. But the are restrictions and the number of people that can gather the rule of six, as it's called. So no more than six people gathering in one place. We are encouraged to work from home if we possibly can. There's been some limitations on public vessel opening hours, a little not massively significant. And then as aspects such as reduced numbers of people gathering at weddings and funerals and other gatherings like that.

MG: The pubs have to close at 10:00 pm.

MICHAEL HEAD: They do. These close at 11:00 now. They closed at 10:00. It's a fairly inconsequential change, in my opinion. But we do know from evidence around the world that pubs and restaurants are places where outbreaks can be seeded and transmit upwards into the community. In my view, I think it would be better to shut the public restaurants entirely and properly compensate the business owners and employees for the loss of income. I think it would be a better public health approach.

MG: To that point, as an epidemiologist is what has been announced, is that enough to tackle this spike? I mean, take a look at, you know, in comparison to what's happening in Scotland, for example, where it seems like the restrictions are far more drastic.

MICHAEL HEAD: Yes, we do have slightly different guidance across England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. So I think public prefer the restrictions that are in place in Scotland to be in England as well. Essentially, if you reduce the number of people in one space, particularly in indoor spaces, then you break those chains of transmission a bit more easily. So I think aspects like shutting pubs and restaurants for at least a few weeks would be sensible.

MG: The UK Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, has been under heavy fire for how he has handled this. Have a listen to him speaking in the House of Commons earlier this week.

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After six months of restrictions, it would be tempting to hope that the threat has faded and to seek comfort in the belief that if you have avoided the virus so far, then you are somehow immune. I have to say that it is that kind of complacency that could be our undoing.

MG: Boris Johnson has said a number of things that have raised some people's eyebrows. One is that he believes the spike in cases is because, in part, Britons enjoy their freedom more than other people in Europe. What did you make of that?

MICHAEL HEAD: Well, I think, I think the government has lost a lot of trust from the look from the general public, in part due to government actions. I don't know if have the Dominic Cummings story made its way across the pond to Canada.

MICHAEL HEAD: Yes, but just just briefly explain. I mean, this was your point, unconfident. This was a huge issue.

MICHAEL HEAD: It was a huge issue and we'd all been staying at home and not going to funerals and not going to see relatives who are dying in hospital of COVID-19. Things like and then you see Dominic Cummings took it upon himself to drive across the country with a case of COVID.

MG: He's just he's a senior minister in Boris Johnson's government.

MICHAEL HEAD: He's a special adviser to Boris Johnson. He pulls a lot of the strings behind the scenes. So that angered the general public a lot. We also had Boris telling us, too, that when we opened up the country again a bit, it was our civic duty to go to the pub. He had used the exact phrase. And then a few weeks later, Matt Hancock, the health minister, told us if we go to the pub too much, we will kill granny. Pretty much those exact words. So there's been, in my view, quite poor messaging from the government. I lost the trust of the government and I think that's shown a little bit with, for example, low compliance with people who were supposed to be self isolating, which is between 10 and 20 percent. And so I think the government does need to have a little think about how it communicates better with the public in the coming months.

MG: The opposition has also hammered Boris Johnson around the government's contact tracing and testing systems. How fair is that?

MICHAEL HEAD: I think it's very fair. The countries have done well out of COVID-19, for example, South Korea or New Zealand had a rapidly implemented and high quality testing system that contacted a high proportion of contacts of cases here in the UK were doing about between 60-70 percent. It's been outsourced to a company who doesn't do that for a living, whereas we do have expert local health protection teams that have been mostly abused across the pandemic who are much better at that. So I think the failures are there and it's very reasonable to criticise them.

MG: The juggling act that countries around the world are trying to pull off is is putting these restrictions in without completely destroying the economy. And there's been real pushback to what has been implemented in Britain from a lot of people saying that this will be too economically costly. Can you reduce the spread of the virus without destroying the economy?

MICHAEL HEAD: I mean, there is to a certain extent a balance, but ultimately, this is a public health problem. And if you don't deal with the public health problem, then the economic consequences will be more severe and go on for longer. So we do need the suppression measures in place to lessen the public health impact, but also that will in turn lessen economic impact as well.

MG: Just before we let you go, one of the reasons why we're talking to you is we're going around the world is because we here in Canada are trying to get a sense as to what might be coming our way. What advice would you have for us in the coming days as we see a rise in our own cases?

MICHAEL HEAD: Well, I think adhere to guidance. I mean, as much as possible. The key thing is space and distancing. So keep distancing from people. People must meet outdoors as much as he can. I know Canadian winters are not the most fun things to do. And again, wash hands, wear masks if you're able to. And hopefully the government and local authorities can give up good public health messaging that pertains the trust of the public. That is, I think, an undervalued aspect of the pandemic, in my view.

MG: Michael Head good luck. Good to speak with you. Thank you.

MICHAEL HEAD: Thank you much. Goodbye.

MG: Dr. Michael Head is an epidemiologist and senior research fellow in Global Health at the University of South Hampton. To Italy now, where the pandemic has claimed more than 35,000 lives. Italy's nationwide shutdown was an early warning to other countries, including our own. Now Italy is stabilizing. And a hint of normalcy is starting to return. Luisella Romeo is a tour guide in Venice, and she's kept us in touch with what's been happening in her city throughout this pandemic. Luisella. Hello.

LUISELLA ROMEO: Hello. Good morning.

MG: You're doing tours again. Tell me where the tourists are coming from that you're showing around your city.

LUISELLA ROMEO: But I'm basically back to work, and I've been so since the beginning of June in terms of real tours, as you know, I run also webinars. But the real tours are pretty- I mean, for the ones that speak in German, as I do, or in English, and then it's fine for my colleagues that speak other languages. They have not been so lucky. So they have actually not worked for a long time. But for the ones like me that speak German, work is back.

MG: And when the tourists arrive, I mean, what happens? They have to self isolate when when they arrive in Italy or...?

LUISELLA ROMEO: No no no. So consider that Italy has the least of the countries that are considered potentially dangerous. And so in that sense, everybody coming from those countries must take a test, has to be controlled before actually coming in. But otherwise, there are no control. I think it depends on the person visiting. How much responsible they are before they travel. I was supposed to give a tour, actually tomorrow, to a couple from Austria. And then they had to cancel because their friends were tested positive for COVID-19. So they cancelled. But otherwise, I don't have not any worry. I mean, when you go around Vaness, we find it is in fact, turns out pretty much everywhere. Everybody's wearing masks while taking a tour and distancing is obvious. Of course, we you know, we just give our elbow to each other. We no longer hug as we used to do or give kisses, like we used to, but the feeling is that it's pretty quiet.

MG: You and I spoke a number of times in the height of this. You've been through a lot and there has been a lot of loss over the course of this pandemic. Is that for sure? Is that fear and anxiety still top of mind for people like yourself?

LUISELLA ROMEO: As I said, I think that when you think of the future, we have to be positive. We have to be optimistic, but we also have to be very flexible. So, in fact, what I noticed is that whatever requests for it to arrive and are always on a last minute and that shows that people decide to travel the very last minute. And the ones that come here are driving. So if you, as a guide, are flexible and is just fine to answer, yes, I'm free in an hour, or tomorrow, then then it's fine. But I repeat, unfortunately, there are many, many colleagues of mine that are thinking of changing a job. And they speak Russian, Chinese or they speak Japanese. I mean, only Europeans are visiting Europe.

MG: You and I spoke about your mom before, and I know that that was a concern as this pandemic was spreading. Are you seeing her often now, given that there are some bits of life that are coming back to normal?

LUISELLA ROMEO: She's an independent lady. So we meet regularly, but not too often. And I have to say that I'm pretty fine because, I mean, I'm wearing this mask. The [unintelligible] which corresponds to the NK 95. So you really know that you are not getting anything. Of course you keep everything [unintelligible]. So whenever I meet her, I feel fine because I know that I'm very likely not positive or not infectious. My brother-In-Law is working for the hospital of COVID-19. He's a doctor. Hospital for just COVID cases is on the mainland, outside Venice. And he said we are ready. We are much more ready and prepared than we were months ago. So that also is a reassuring the feeling.

MG: How does that make you feel given given everything that you've been through?

LUISELLA ROMEO: It's very reassuring. We know that it could come back. But we know that we are better prepared. And all in all, I think that, you know, everybody expected Venice, Italy, excuse me, to be a country of anarchy. You know, that we don't like rules and such. But instead, it showed, I think, in the months ago, that Italy is a country that cares for the rules when they apply and they do good. So that's something that also he assures me.

MG: And hopefully that continues as these cases begin to pop up again throughout not just Europe, but around the world.

LUISELLA ROMEO: Correct. Also consider that the moment need to leave the weather is still very pleasant. It's very warm. We spend a lot of time outdoors. And so we know that there will be a change soon. Let's see what happens.

MG: Oh, to be in Venice. I wish I could be there. And hopefully you're still doing what you're doing when we are able to travel. In the meantime, Luisella. It's great to speak with you again. Be well and take care.

LUISELLA ROMEO: It was. You bet. Thank you very much for everything.Grazie.

MG: Chao. Luisella Romeo is a tour guide with Venice Guided Tours, giving us a bit of a sense as to what's happening around the world as cases continue to rise and perhaps some things that we need to be aware of here in Canada. The CBC News is up next. And then we pull into Iowa for the next stop on our U.S. election road trip. We are in the current virtual RV rolling down the Mississippi River on our way to New Orleans in time for voting day. And as we make our way into Iowa, you will hear what a pandemic and its effects on college football has meant for Iowans. Football is a big, big deal in that state. We'll hear more about that coming up in about six minutes time. I'm Matt Galloway. This is The Current on CBC Radio one. Stay with us.

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Trump won swing state Iowa decisively in 2016. Here's how these voters feel 4 years later

Guests: Dan Smicker, Greg Morris, Lynn Morris, Karin Marley

MG: Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to The Current.

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MG: Still to come. Rewriting the history of Alberta's black cowboys. But first, crossing the river into Iowa.

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DONALD TRUMP: Together, we will make America great again.

VOICE 1: If you're going to vote by mail. Vote early.

DONALD TRUMP: But you don't hear them talking about today. I said hundreds of thousands of lives.

VOICE 2: The only thing you could tear America apart is America itself. And we not that happen.

MG: The U.S. election campaign is in full swing in 39 days. Americans will head to the polls. And so here at The Current, we have gassed up our radio RV, stocked up on snacks, and we're hitting the open road. Started in Minnesota en route to Louisiana following the mighty Mississippi River in our series Road to November. And along the way, we're speaking with Americans about what this election means to them. Last week we were in Wisconsin. We have now taken the eye ninety-four down to Highway 61, crossed over the river, and we're pulling into Dewit, Iowa. Dan Smicker is the chairman of the Clinton County Republicans. He also runs a sheep farm. He taught high school agriculture for thirty nine years. Dan, good morning.

DAN SMICKER: Good morning. And how are you?

MG: I'm well, thanks. Tell me how you're doing in the midst of this pandemic. You're in the midst of a lot of change in your parts of the country. How do you see Donald Trump helping farmers like yourself in Iowa?

DAN SMICKER: Donald Trump is very aware of the situation on the farm, which is a lot different than most people other than a Midwestern politician. Trump is an entrepreneur. He understands of production, agriculture, which is entrepreneurial. And he understands when you affect foreign trade, you take away part of our markets.

MG: What did you make of him when he entered the Republican race five years ago?

DAN SMICKER: Nobody really knew what to make of him for sure. Two things happened, I think, that drew a lot of people to Donald Trump. Number one, he's not a trained politician. Number two, he's not from Washington D.C. A lot of people in the centre part of the country do not really believe or trust a lot of the politicians from the coast because we've heard all kinds of promises and things said and we see very little, if any, results. We kind of voted for Donald Trump on a hope and a prayer. Let's give him a nice chance and say we can do. Nobody ever dreamed he would come up with a novel idea of actually doing what he promised. And he has solidified his base in the centre part of this country because he's actually doing what he said he would do.

MG: You say that he's solidified his base. If you talk to two people in Clinton County, what do they tell you about about Trump and how they're feeling about him four years in?

DAN SMICKER: OK, we're supposed to be a Democratic county and Trump won this county by 1200 votes, OK. Right now, unless something drastic, unforeseen changes, I think he's going to win this county by more.

MG: It's really interesting because last time around, I think a lot of people dismissed Donald Trump's chances of winning. And you're suggesting that that from what you're seeing, people are doing that again at their peril?

DAN SMICKER: Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know how to turn this, so I'll just term it. The opposition party has. And I'm not going to say it's a campaign, but there is a number of activities going around to try to steal our campaign signage out of our yards and fence rows. We've had a huge number of signs taken, burned, destroyed. And to me, that tells me that the opposition is worried to death, at least in this area. If you have a strong candidate, you promote your candidate. If you don't have a strong candidate, you do something to less than the other candidate.

MG: Are you put off at all by people call him divisive and that he pits people against each other, that he has people believe said some racist things, some sexist things? Or are you put off by that at all?

DAN SMICKER: Well, beauty's in the eye of the beholder. We just don't believe me he's sexist or racist or homophobic or, you know, he he's basically telling the truth and he's not trying to hurt people's feelings, but he's telling the truth as he sees it.

MG: We were talking about the pandemic and what this has meant for the economy. 200,000 Americans have died and there are no recordings of the president earlier this year understanding how serious COVID-19, was. But then he was telling people that this was just like a flu and it would go away. What do you say to people who point to his failures when it comes to containing the pandemic that we're in right now? Do you see his responses as a failure?

DAN SMICKER: Maybe it's a failure, and maybe it's a success. I mean, yeah, we've had about 200,000 people die from COVID-19 are less-- When they died. They possess the virus. Obviously, that was a a characteristic or a condition that helped their demise in most cases. They also had underlying causes. Maybe, you know, we started off saying we're going to have three million deaths with this thing or t200,000d. Now, if you start off with the premises of having three million deaths and we up to 200,000. Is the president successful?

MG: Despite the fact that 200,000 people have died.

DAN SMICKER: Two hundred thousand people have died. And every one of those lives is precious. And it's extremely regrettable. But like I said, maybe the president saved two million eight hundred thousand people, too.

MG: Dan, it's good to talk to you. I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you so much.

DAN SMICKER: Well, thank you. You have a good day.

MG: And you, Dan Smicker is the chairman of the Clinton County Republicans. He runs a sheep farm. He was in Dewitt, Iowa. We pull back onto the highway from DeWitt's and away from Dan's farm. We head to Iowa City, home of the University of Iowa, where in any other year you would hear this.

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[Crowd cheering]

I O W A

MG: I.O.W.A. The University of Iowa as part of the Big Ten Athletics League. There are lots of different sports involved. The crown jewel is football. Big Ten football season was called off at first because of COVID. But then just recently, the league changed its mind and the first games are actually set to start next month. Jim Rinnelli's, now his family has owned the Airliner restaurant and bar since 1944, sits in an old brick building right across the street from campus. Over the decades, it has been a fan favourite come game day. Jim sat us down in his booth. It's number 72. There's no problem snagging it, though. There are just a couple of customers grabbing a bite. And Jim Rinnelli says that is a big change.

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JIM RINNELLI: Typically, the Airliner any other year, there'd be college kids coming in, leaving back and forth. There might be some recruitment events for the Greek system, whether it's sororities or fraternities that were going on in this building or other university organisations. There might be one or two classes that stop and have professors. Unfortunately, the volume in the building is down due to this cohered concerns. The football season is like Christmas for us here. It makes or breaks your whole year before the pandemic Airliner run a football Friday night. We pack this for a minute and we start moving tables around and we see everybody gets squeezed in elbow to elbow, people that never met each other. You know, we've got tables and you might see a table here and a table here. And there's no Isle way half the time. We'll be elbow to elbow and then the beer band will come in and they'll stand on top of the bar. They'll stand on the tables or stand on the chairs. And they'll really get this place really going with a lot of good music. And they'll play the Iowa fight song. Back in March, April, I thought two more weeks and we're going to be up and running two more weeks, we'll figure it out. By May, we'll figure it out. And that didn't happen. And I thought, OK, we're going to have a slow summer and that's what we're gonna be up and running in August. The students all come back. And then when they started to postpone and delay, I started to get real worried. Over the last six months since the pandemic started, our revenue has been down about 90 percent. We've been closed three out of the last six months. This has been the hardest to try to figure out how to run a business sensibly. And so I'm very, extremely pleased that the football season is looking like they're going to have some games and anything. Anything's better than zero. It's the difference between losing a lot of money and potentially at this point maybe breaking even and breaking evens a big win in this environment.

[Song]

MG: Jim Rinnelli owns the Airliner, a restaurant and bar. Joining me now are Lynn and Greg Morris. Lynn works for the Visiting Nurse Association of Johnson County. Greg is the equipment manager for the University of Iowa Hawkeyes football team. Good morning to you both.

GREG AND LYNN: Good morning.

MG: Greg. How big is football in your town?

GREG MORRIS: Football. Football drive the Cadillac. There's no doubt about it. And in the thing that football does in our community. It brings people together from all over. Put smiles on their faces. And that probably is the most. I don't know. Probably may not be a fair word. But for people not to be able to gather and get together and smile. Our world needs that right now. It's terrible.

MG: I was just going to say, I mean, what does it mean then, given how important it is for the morale of the city in the midst of a pandemic to have football coming back?

GREG AND LYNN: Well, it'll help because although as of right now, the Big Ten is not going allow fans in the stands. People will still be able to gather. I mean, whether it's downtown, I was city at local restaurants and bars, I'm sure there'll be tailgate events around the stadium, not necessarily [unintelligible] property, but people get together and gather and smile. So that's not all bad.

MG: Lynn, how are you feeling about football getting back going?

LYNN MORRIS: Just like Greg said, people will be able to gather and enjoy each other again and have the same. You know, it'll feel a little bit normal, which we'll feel really good.

MG: You work in health care and you had covered yourself.

LYNN MORRIS: Yes, I did.

MG: How are you doing?

LYNN MORRIS: I am doing very well, thank you.

MG: Do you worry that I mean, Greg was talking about the idea of there'll be tailgates and stuff like that. Do you worry that having these games and having something for people to rally around is good for the spirit but that that could, you know, raise the risk of the virus spreading again?

LYNN MORRIS: Of course. Of course. I do worry about that. And I just have pure faith that people will be smart. And they you know, when we talk about rallying, we're not talking about shoulder to shoulder interactions. We're talking about being people, people being respectful to their distancing and just how they gather will change. But being together is important.

MG: Hearing some of the commentary around this, there are some people who are suggesting that this is about the money that football makes for colleges more than keeping people safe. When you hear that, Lynn, how do you react?

LYNN MORRIS: I don't know how to explain this. I have a husband who works in the programme. I have a both of our boys did play football. So I have a passion and a love for the game. And as a health care provider, I also hope people are smart and use the information that they have to maintain their safety. And by that I mean the testing of the players, the tests, enough to staff in making sure that everybody does that best that they can to prevent it from spread, spreading. I wish there was a way to say that it was going to be gone and this went and happen. But we're not there yet. So, that's a kind of struggle with that.

MG: How do you feel about the way that politicians both at the state and the national level have dealt with this pandemic, Lynn?

LYNN MORRIS: I will be very honest. Having had the virus and having been very sick, I actually just read my journal the other day. I started invited to participate in this. I do not engage in a lot of the news because I have been through it. And I think that there is so much misunderstanding of what it feels like when you go through it. And it's a personal thing and everybody has a personal reaction to politicise it. It's not quite the way viruses and diseases should be treated. What I did in my open.

MG: What did it feel like? You wrote about this in your journal, if you don't mind me asking me, what did it feel like when you were really sick?

LYNN MORRIS: I felt like I had to. How do I say this? I had to come to terms with my life and whether or not I would be alive the next morning for my children and my husband.

MG: Oh my Goodness.

LYNN MORRIS: I had to think about how I live my life making decisions. I believe I came out of it a much stronger person, understanding how important everyday is.

MG: Given what's gone on in your own life, you see this happening across the country. There are real pushbacks to people, to people's restrictions on their daily lives. And we saw this earlier in the pandemic where people push back against the lockdown's, you know, the issue of masks being this this political flashpoint. What do you make of that, Lynn?

LYNN MORRIS: I believe that masks will prevent the spread of the virus. I also believe that everybody has their own right to make a decision as to what they want to do. And if you choose not to make healthy choices, there are consequences for it. And as long as you are educated, then you're making an educated decision. That is you're right and that is your choice.

MG: Greg, we heard from Dan earlier and he was talking about what the appeal was for Donald Trump to him. You voted for Donald Trump in 2016. What was it about what Trump was saying back then that spoke to you?

GREG AND LYNN: My big deal then was I just didn't want to. I wanted something different. That was all. A nonpolitician.

MG: What was it about politicians? I mean, again, Dan talked a bit about this. What was it about politicians, traditional politicians that kept you high?

GREG MORRIS: I think at the end of the day, it's trust. It's easy to look somebody and I say, we're going to help you and do it. I think it's another thing to try and get it done. My hopes for it would be refreshing and change. It wouldn't be maybe so decisive like it is now Republican and Democrat. Good and bad. Right and wrong. I think that part of our country is really sad.

MG: How do you feel four years into it? How do you feel that it's worked out?

GREG MORRIS: I don't know that I have an opinion of that yet. You know, one day I feel good about the other day, I kind of scratch my head. I don't know. It maybe confusion might be the best, best word for me right now. It's still a pawn. We the people to make this country good to help each other. I don't know that a politician, any politician can really we if you get right down to it, can't can make all the appropriate changes. You know, stand on all their promises unless we the people want to understand the good and bad, right and wrong.

MG: Would you vote for him again or will you vote for him again, if you don't mind me asking?

GREG MORRIS: I'm undecided right now. Simply because I want to wait another month and see what both candidates have to say coming down to the end. I probably won't make my mind up till I walk into the voting booth.

MG: What about for you, Lynn? You voted for Hillary Clinton four years ago. What are you thinking now?

LYNN MORRIS: I will not vote for Donald Trump.

MG: And so that will that be Joe Biden or what were you. What are you thinking?

LYNN MORRIS: There's always the option to write in. I'm the only thing I can say for sure is I will not vote for Donald Trump.

MG: One of the neat things in this virtual trip that we're doing through parts of the United States on the way to the election is that we're hearing kind of what's at stake. And we heard a little bit of that from Dan in terms of, you know, where the country is in this moment, but also where it could go. I'll ask you both this. I mean, Lynn, what's at stake? What you think about casting a ballot on the 3rd of November, what are you hoping for?

LYNN MORRIS: I hope her good. I think Greg and I did not agree on who we voted for in 2016, but we agree the goodness of people, the country unifying, the communities not being so politically divided and the longer people doing things that are right and doing things that are good, because that's the correct thing to do. Becoming a country that I'm not going to be your friend because we're politically we don't agree. I would like to see this country become united where people do things because it is the right thing to do.

MG: Greg, same question to you. What are you hoping for when you go to cast your ballot? Given where your country is right now?

GREG MORRIS: You know, I take quick, low interest and story in our community right now where we have a pretty good fire department and we're in the process of raising about four million dollars for new firehouse. And what this process has done for our fire department is brought us a lot closer on both as members and as families. And I look at that and hope that that is a model of what our country can get back to, helping each other, caring for each other. That to me, the election is about some of that in whether it's it's somebody at the local level, the state level or the national level who you choose to vote for, I hope that that people have that in mind. We need to get back to helping each other, caring for each other, not the big dogs in the fight, filling their pockets, but maybe all of us helping each other so we all can benefit. Maybe that's kind of the goal Big tent football, where we're not going to put 70000 people in the stands at Kinnick, but maybe by having big tent football, we might put it, we might bring a few people together. Let's hope. My hope is that our election does that. When people get closer to that date in November, realise that, you know, maybe we are a little run amuck here, whether it's Republican or Democrat or independent or whatever. Let's cheque all that at the door and let's all look at each other and think about those three simple words. We, the people.

MG: It's a real pleasure to talk to you both, your optimism is quite something in this moment, and I really appreciate you taking time to talk to us. Lynn, I wish you the best of health as well.

LYNN MORRIS: Thank you.

MG: It's good to speak with you both. Thanks.

GREG MORRIS: Yes, it's good to speak with you guys. We appreciate the opportunity come diversity sometime.

MG: I would love to.

GREG MORRIS: I would love to host you.

MG: I want to be in that stand with 70000 football fans.

GREG MORRIS: Yes. You know what? It'll be the experience of a lifetime. And we all need some of those.

MG: I'll be knocking on your door. Great to talk to you both. Thank you.

GREG MORRIS: Thank you. Have a good day.

MG: And you. Bye bye. Greg Morris is equipment manager for the University of Iowa Hawkeyes football programme. Lynn Morris works for the Visiting Nurse Association of Johnson County. That is it for us in Iowa. Next week. We're hauling this old but very comfortable radio RV across the Mississippi River into Illinois. You can catch up on all our past stops at our Web site, cbc.ca/thecurrent. And that is where you will also find out how to get in touch with us. To that end, earlier this week, we talked about canning. Apparently, your vegetable gardens have produced a bumper crop which led to a bushel of email. And our senior producer, Karin Marley is here to help me harvest it. Should I keep going with the puns, Karin? No, perhaps not. Good morning.

KARIN MARLEY: Good morning. Please stop. Your puns are killing me.

MG: Very nice. Look at you.

KARIN MARLEY: Madonna Decker from Stratford, Ontario writes: So far this summer and fall, my partner and I have done 120 quarts of beets, 30 pints of black raspberry jam, 40 quarts of chilli sauce. And I don't think we are finished yet.

MG: That's a lot of jam. Joanne Mueller in Victoria writes: My large vegie garden has produced a bumper crop of green and yellow bush beans, some of which were canned in my pressure canner, 18 pints of those next to many cucumbers. So a batch of bread and butter pickles, whoops, found a dozen jars from last year. So no more.

KARIN MARLEY: Here's one from Elizabeth Pierce of Halifax: As someone who teaches canning workshops at schools and community groups, I couldn't be happier at this new old trend and hope people take its underlying message of food security and eating local to heart.

MG: From Patricia Copping of work with Ontario: I had done some canning in my 20s and started making jam. Last year, 30 years later, this year, I have crab apple jelly and was working on apple butter when I heard your programme. Got lucky. I had some jars and lids leftover from last year, hoping I have enough to put down some more before the season is done.

KARIN MARLEY: And finally, this is from Catherine Greave from Ambro, Ontario: My first venture into preserve's happened when I was 11 and discovered beautiful red currants in an abandoned garden near our home. My grandmother helped me turn those into jelly. Years of home canning have followed. At one point I reported on the day's production to my mother, who observed that it was like having money in the bank. The visual pleasure I take and the colours and textures and the shiny jars on my shelves, all underlaid with a make do attitude of someone whose parents were very much impacted by being children in the Depression. Our children will receive baskets of interesting goodies to remind them of home, if we can't gather.

MG: Lucky them and lucky you if you've put things away when the dark months of winter arrive, you'll have a little taste of summer, stashed away somewhere. Karin, thank you.

MG: You're very welcome. Karin Marliy, senior producer on The Current. You can always reach us again, the contact information on our website. Go to cbc.ca/thecurrent and click on the contact link. Your regional update is next. And then reclaiming the histories and lives of Canada's black cowboys. I Matt Galloway. This is The Current. We're back in 90 seconds.

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The story of Black cowboy John Ware

Guests: Cheryl Foggo

MG: Hi, I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

He's one of those famous people. No one has ever heard of, especially outside of Alberta. Two creeks, two buildings named for him, a hiking trail, a bridge in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains. Canada Post stamp. He pioneered irrigation in southern Alberta. He was the fastest, the strongest, the best.

MG: He was John Ware. He was a successful rancher and cowboy who settled in southern Alberta in the late 1800s. John Ware was black. An iconic figure on the prairies and the past. And in the present and in her new film, John Wqre Reclaimed, Cheryl Foggo argues we need to get beyond the mythology that has been created around this cowboy. The film is showing now as part of the Calgary and Vancouver International Film Festivals. Cheryl Foggo. Good morning.

CHERYL FOGGO: Good morning, Matt.

MG: You just, in that little clip we just heard, you say that John Ware was one of the most famous people no one has ever heard of. Who was John?

CHERYL FOGGO: Well, he was an African-American cowboy who came up to Alberta in 1882 and he never left again. He made this part of the world, his home, and he very quickly established a name as a fantastic horseman. Ultimately, he became a very successful rancher and just all around successful person in that he figured out how to navigate and work around the racism that he experienced to lead a life that was truly his dream and what he would never have been able to imagine as an enslaved person.

MG: You mentioned the mythology and I hinted at that as well, that you want to get beyond some of the mythology around him. What is that mythology?

CHERYL FOGGO: Well, some of it is mythology around his positioning as the kind of representation of all of Alberta's black history. So weird stories that take him out of the realm of being human and sort of elevating him to a kind of a Paul Bunyan-esque figure in that sort of ludicrous stories that you'd you'd have to know immediately upon hearing that can't possibly be true about his strength. You know, he was he was a big, strong, fast, powerful black man, but he was human. And the things that he did were amazing enough without having to try to take him out of his humanity. In addition, though, there is this notion that he was an anomaly, which is part of his mythology, that he was the only black presence on the prairies at that time. That simply isn't true. And those are just a couple of several mythologies that I would like to dispel.

MG: Tell me about that black presence in the prairies at that time. How did he end up in Alberta and who was with him when he arrived?

CHERYL FOGGO: He did come up with several other white cowboys and eventually they became the Bar U Ranch. He had been kicking around Montana and Idaho after bringing some cattle up there from Texas. And he'd made friends with one of the white cowboys on that drive who insisted that Tom Lynch, who was doing the hiring, also hire his friend John Ware. So he that's how he came up. He came across the border, you know, on the insistence of this friend of his. And he was then recommended to the boss at the Bar U Ranch, which is a stunning ranch that still exists here in in Alberta. You can come visit it sometime. That's how he came up. But what he found when he got here is that there were other black people here. There was a black woman who is an entrepreneur in southern Alberta. And there were several other black cowboys not on that particular drive of his, but they were in and around the area very shortly after his arrival. Many other black people started arriving as well, so that by the time his children were born, they also were situated within the black communities of Alberta and southern Alberta specifically.

MG: How did you first hear about John Ware?

CHERYL FOGGO: I was about 11 and my brother came tearing home into the house after school after a field trip to the Glen Bull Museum, where he saw a photograph of John Ware that so happened that my brother and I were cowboy obsessed. But we. Did not know that there was a black cowboy in our area. We had already started to feel a little bit embarrassed about our cowboy obsession because it just didn't seem like black people existed in that world. We watched the movies, we read the books. And so discovering that black people did indeed exist in that world and specifically in the world where we were living was an incredible revelation for us.

MG: How did you become cowboy obsessed?

CHERYL FOGGO: Well, when you grow up in Calgary in the 50s and 60s, the stampede and cowboys are pretty well every child's obsession. And that's how we first got to see horses by going down to the stampede. And we just fell so much in love with horses. They're still my favourite animal and still my brother, Richard's favourite animal. So that's how that's how that evolved.

MG: What would it have meant to you if, John Ware and the other black cowboys had figured more prominently in the history books that you were reading, but also in the stampede that you went to?

CHERYL FOGGO: Oh, I think it would have been huge. I think, first of all, that any aspects of black history are erased is an egregious erasure and has tremendous harmful impacts on young black Canadians. I think it would have helped us to incorporate the different aspects of our identities instead of compartmentalising them or instead of thinking, well, that can't be for me or I'm not welcome there. I think if you can grow up with an integrated identity that includes your African Canadian heritage, but that does not exclude any other aspect of, you know, where you're from. You know that you happen to have been born in Calgary and that there is this dominant narrative about that part of the world that seems to want to exclude you. I think that's damaging. So I think it would have been really helpful for us.

MG: The interesting - there's a lot that's interesting about this film but one of the things is, is that it mixes historical research, but also personal reflection. And you've hinted at that there and talking about your own time growing up in in Alberta and the community that perhaps you wish you knew more about. This is a little bit from your conversation with the author, Bertrand Bickerstaff. He hadn't heard of John Ware while he was growing up in Alberta.

SOUNDCLIP

CHERYL FOGGO: Because while I was growing up and I'm sure you experienced something like this, too, everyone talked about Canada as the place where there was no racism in the United States was the horrible place. And thank goodness you're living here because if you live the United States, you would encounter racism. Well, shock, surprise, of course, we encountered racism here as well. But for a young child was actually confusing to me because I absorbed that narrative that Canada's racist free. And so it was very confusing when I would have these racist encounter.

Yeah. Is it just me? Like, I guess that was the one racist incident that ever happened in Canada. But then, you know, two months later. Oh, I guess there's no second one.

BERTRAND BICKERSTAFF: That's right. Yes. Exactly. And sometimes, Cheryl, I would even rationalise to myself, well, I guess that wasn't racism, right? Maybe if they don't actually use the N word, then it's not actual racism, I guess.

MG: Cheryl Foggo, tell me more about that and about what you experienced growing up and why you wanted to incorporate that into this film.

CHERYL FOGGO: One of the reasons I wanted to incorporate it is that it still happens. I still hear from young black people who are really confused and really internalise the extensive racism they experience because we still have that narrative that Canada does not have racism, that it doesn't happen here.

MG: That it's not the United States.

CHERYL FOGGO: Yes, exactly. It's it's it's still a very commonly held narrative. So I wanted to connect the film to the present and hope that it will prompt a more honest recognition of who we are and who we have been.

MG: One of the things that I learnt in the film was about the migration of black Americans into southern Alberta. 1500 of them settled in the province.

CHERYL FOGGO: Yes. I mean, the estimates vary because it's you know, it's hard to count the numbers. Some, you know, some say there were as many as 2000 who came up between 1985 and 1912. And that migration included both sets of my maternal great grandparents.

MG: How were they received when they arrived in Alberta?

CHERYL FOGGO: That's a kind of heartbreaking story because they were expecting the promised land and they were met immediately at the border with resistance. It was- the Canadian government had been advertising in southern newspapers, but they simply weren't expecting that black farmers would be part of the numbers who would respond to those advertisements. So they were met with resistance at the border. But the attempts to turn them away based on, well, you know, are you healthy enough or do you have enough money? Those attempts failed because they were extremely well prepared. But other measures were soon taken and the migration really trickled out around about 1912, which was a disappointment to that community. They had wanted to really create a thriving, larger presence and just be allowed to live and succeed. There were numerous petitions against us. There were many, many newspaper articles. The headlines are horrific. I included a few we have in the film.

MG: And one of them is I mean, it's shocking, says we have no Negroes and we don't want any.

CHERYL FOGGO: Yes. That was not true. Really, the truth of that headline is we don't want any.

MG: Why do you think now is the time that we need to hear the story of John Ware?

CHERYL FOGGO: Well, it's so interesting that the film is coming out in this particular time that we're in. For me, my work has always felt urgent. You know, you mentioned, Matt, that you didn't know about our Western and Canadian black history. And that is a matter of urgency for me, because it is urgent that people know that there is no province or territory in this country that does not have a black history.

MG: Cheryl, it's great to speak with you about it. And I appreciate what I have learnt from your film. Thank you so much.

CHERYL FOGGO: Thank you, Matt.

MG: Cheryl foregoes film. John Where Reclaimed is part of the online Calgary and Vancouver International Film Festivals, which are both on now. The Calgary Festival can be streamed in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Vancouver Festival online films are available to viewers in British Columbia.

[Music]

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'We can't just be preaching to the choir': Why youth climate activists are taking to the streets amid pandemic

Guest: Cheryl Foggo

You're listening to The Current on CBC Radio one. My name is Matt Galloway.

SOUNDCLIP

Today, there's another global climate strike and it is very exciting to see the pictures and videos from all around the world and to hear from everyone who has been organizing strikes. The strikes have been very successful today. I'm very excited to be here. And it's going to be very much fun.

MG: It's been a year since Greta Thunberg, the young Swedish climate activist, spoke in Montreal. She had galvanised huge crowds of young people to walk out of school to save the planet. This year, things are a bit different. Governments are busy managing the COVID-19 pandemic and gathering in large numbers is not safe. But the young people who came together to form a movement have not stopped calling for action on climate change. Mitzi Jonelle Tan is one of the founders of the Fris for Future Movement in the Philippines. Mitzi, Hello.

MITZI JONELLE: Hey, thanks for having me.

MG: Thanks for joining us. I mean, so much has changed in the last year. How is this September 25th going to be different from last year's day of action against climate change?

MITZI JONELLE: Definitely. It's going to be so different because of the COVID-19 pandemic in the Philippines. We are still under lockdown. We haven't left it since March. And so we're only allowed to have 10 people per groups. So we're going to have 30 people in a large area, grouped as 10 people. And it's going to be so downsized. And it's very different from what we're used to, where we're having hundreds of people going out in the streets in the city.

MG: How does that change the fight that you're involved in? Because we saw it before. There were millions of people out on the streets and there was an energy that that that created. How does the fact that you're still under lockdown change that movement?

MITZI JONELLE: It changes it by a lot because we are forced to be really, really creative, because with everything happening online and digitally and trying to raise awareness purely online is so difficult because it's so easy to ignore posts about the climate, you can just scroll through or put yourself on mute and turn off your camera and tune out. So it has been quite an adjustment to continue campaigning for the climate this quarantine period. But we're seeing that it's so important because we're still affected by the climate crisis every day today and it is connected to how everyone is experiencing a relay life like ours. Storms are messing up our online classes. So people who aren't students are able to get their education COVID-19 testing centres are getting wiped out by typhoons. Droughts are causing water crises, which are making it harder to stay clean by washing our hands. So it's definitely an intersectional issue. And so we keep going for it.

MG: Do you worry that the movement has lost momentum because of the global pandemic?

MITZI JONELLE: In a way, yes. A lot of our power fighters for future came from physical protest and being there on the ground where people could see us and would have no choice but to hear us. But also in a different perspective, since everything is online, we have had the chance to unite and communicate more globally. So in a way, I would say that it's building the foundation for a better and stronger movement.

MG: How did you get involved in the movement in the first place?

MITZI JONELLE: So in 2017. So this is even before Friday's for Future. That's when I became an environmental activist because I was able to talk to one of the leaders of our indigenous groups here. And he was telling us about how he was being displaced, militarised and harassed and they were being killed just for protecting their land. And and he was saying all these horrible things. And then after that, he said he shrugged and said that's why we have no choice but to fight back. And then he chuckled after that. And it is the simplicity of his voice and the simplicity of his tone that really got to me. And I started crying because I realised that it shouldn't be that simple. It is our home that is being destroyed. It is our planet. We have no choice but to become climate activists. And then in 2019, with everything happening all around the world, we realise that we needed a climate specific organisation and alliance here in the Philippines, and that's how our organisation is born.

MG: 46 environmental activists were killed in the Philippines in 2019. It is one of the most dangerous countries for climate campaigners. What's going on there?

MITZI JONELLE: It's a very difficult situation and a very heavy topic to talk about. But it's also something that's so close to my heart because one of the reasons, the main reason why I became an activist is because of environmental defenders. I guess it's because. They are protecting the environment in these foreign mining companies, these mega dams, the coal fired power plants. They are destroying the environment. And so they will do whatever it takes to get their profit. And if that means having to move and kill and harass environmental defenders, then they will do that. It's gotten even worse because now we have this new law called the anti-terror law of the Philippines, where it has a very vague definition of terrorism to the point that any form of activism is threatened. It's happened in the past where even just posting on Facebook that you don't like our president could get you arrested.

MG: As you said, the Philippines is already feeling the effects of a changing climate. What would your message be on this Friday for Canadians who are listening to this?

MITZI JONELLE: I would say listen to what's happening to the countries that are already affected by this. Listen to global south countries. If you are already aware of the climate crisis is. Find out how it's already affecting us today. It's not a huge problem of the future. It's a problem of today. And it's a matter of life and death. And so we need you to pressure your government to have drastic, ambitious climate action and plans, because the ones that are being suggested by global leaders today aren't enough. It's enough for. It could be enough for a carbon major countries that are less impacted. But it's definitely not enough for us in the most affected areas.

MG: Mitzi, it's great to talk to you. Good luck in the work that you're doing and thank you.

MITZI JONELLE: Thank you so much for having me. Take care. Bye bye.

MG: Mitzy Jonelle Tan is a youth climate activist in the Philippines. There are also Fris for Future rallies planned across Canada today, either virtually or in person and socially distanced, including one that's happening in the small city of Duncan, British Columbia. Katia Bannister is one of the activists. They're part of the Couch and Valley Earth Guardians crew. She's on Thetis Island in British Columbia. Katia. Good morning.

KATIA BANNISTER: Good morning. Thank you for having me.

MG: Thanks for joining us. Mitzie was just saying that climate change is not a problem of the future. It's a problem of today. How are you seeing the impact of climate change where you live?

KATIA BANNISTER: That is a great question. So obviously we all know right now about the wildfires that are tearing up and down the west coast of the U.S. and, well, my community is not seeing the flames from those fires directly, we are clearly or unclearly seeing all the smoke that is coming up the coast. And just a week ago, I recently hiked Stony Hill, which usually has viewpoints that overlook the ocean surrounding Gulf Islands. But when I looked out to the water, what would have been the water? It looked like the world just fell away, like I was standing on the edge of the world. It was completely covered in smoke. You couldn't see anything. And in those moments, I had an appreciation for the burning cycle and how incredible that moment was. But I also had to remember that this is not the burning cycle, that we know the cycle of renewal that it should be. This is a result of anthropogenic cause, climate change and something that has altered a cycle of renewal to become a cycle of destruction.

MG: Just briefly, tell us how you got involved first in climate activism.

KATIA BANNISTER: I'm pretty new to climate activism, as I know a lot of my fellow youth activists are. I started considering myself a climate activist in March of twenty nineteen when I attended my first climate strike. It was the first big day of global climate action organised by youth. And the first day that I had ever been in a crowd so huge, marched or carried a sign. And it really felt like something came alive in me. That data energy that was present at that rally.

MG: Tell me more about that. I mean, what did you what did you experience in that moment, in that huge crowd with the sign that that activated something?

KATIA BANNISTER: I didn't feel the urgency surrounding climate change before that day, I didn't understand it wasn't presented to me and the language that climate change is talked about in schools or in society in general. I didn't know that climate change was happening here and now as much as I should've and would've wanted to. And I think that is a big problem with our education system. Also, the ways that we talk about climate change and more taught about climate change are not urgent. They present climate change like an issue of the future when it is very much an issue of the now.

MG: One of the reasons why the climate strikes the youth climate strikes have been so powerful is because, yes, it is an issue for the now. But people do talk about the future and they talk about what sort of world are we leaving to our kids into our grandkids. Next week, there's this public hearing in the case of 15 young Canadians. They're suing the federal government for violating their charter rights by perpetuating climate change. Do you see this issue as a rights issue?

KATIA BANNISTER: I do. And I know of the lawsuit. I know a few of the plaintiffs. I believe climate change is a human rights issue, but it's also so much deeper than not to it's an ecological rights issue. Asking for climate action from our governments is to preserve the most basic of our rights as living beings, not just as humans, because access to sustainable food sources, clean water and polluted air and shelter are things that are required by many multicellular organisms. And fighting for climate action is fighting for the right to live. It is fighting to stay alive in a biosphere that is close to ecological collapse. It is fighting to survive an extinction event of anthropogenic origin. The very first of its kind.

MG: How do you create that urgency then? And how do you spread that urgency? Because you will hear people say, yes, it's incredibly important, but we have to look at other matters, including I mean, we're in the midst of a pandemic, the economy. There are a lot a lot of reasons that people will say, I get the urgency, but I'm not going to act in an urgent way. So how do you how do you felt it in your own activism, in your introduction to it. How do you pass that on to other people?

KATIA BANNISTER: That's a great question and it's something that I've thought a lot about, because people do say that and then nothing really happens. There is no actions that are taken. And so when I felt a call to action, I think of that as a defining moment for me as an activist. And we can have defining moments and not consider ourselves activists. But I try my best to facilitate those moments for other people. And those moments are full of emotion. Maybe it is passion or maybe it's a little bit fearful or maybe it's a little bit of anger. And we try to bring that out in. People present climate change like a real issue and ask people, OK, it's going to affect your life. What do you want to do about it? What can you do about it?

MG: It's such a different time now. I mean, again, we saw these millions and millions of young people out on the streets a year ago. What is your rally going to look like today?

KATIA BANNISTER: It is going to be very small. Dunkin is already not the biggest city. So when we held rallies last year, which we held a few of them, there would be a couple hundred people coming to those rallies. And today it will only be a few members of my organising group, because especially being in such a small community, it is important to respect. COVID-19 regulations and people's feelings about large groups gathering in our community just in the last minute or so that we have.

MG: What do you hoping to accomplish with the rally?

KATIA BANNISTER: I think visibility is a huge part of this for me. And Mitzi mentioned it earlier. It's easy to ignore you when you're online. And last March to September, I was striking for climate action at least once a month in groups that varied in size from 20 to 20,000. And this year, I've only participated in raising virtual actions. And you don't reach the same people. You're not reaching the people who are in your community that you want to be talking to. You're reaching a global community that already believes in climate action, which is great, but we can't just be preaching to the choir.

MG: And so you want to be seen there, even if it's a small group of people, and that that will help.

KATIA BANNISTER: Yeah. I want people to know that we're still here. Climate change is still an issue. It didn't disappear because of COVID-19. These twin crises need to be acted on simultaneously.

MG: It's great to talk to you. Good luck and thank you.

KATIA BANNISTER: Thank you so much for having me.

MG: Katia Bannister is a youth climate activist on Thetis Island in British Columbia. The CBC Radio Show. What on earth is looking deeper into that court case by youth over climate change? You can hear about it Sunday at 12:30. Or download their podcast here. Our friend Laura Lynch dig into the arguments and ask what role the courts can play in ensuring climate action. That's it for The Current for today and for this week. Q is up next on CBC Radio. One is a very busy week on this programme. If you missed anything, I might suggest humbly that you download the CBC Listen app. You can get caught up in interviews with people like Bob Woodward, Yaa Gyasi, Carl Hiaasen, Hockey Night in Canada, Panjabi host Harnarayan Sing and others. In the meantime, I Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening to The Current. Have a great weekend and I'll talk to you Monday.

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CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

Friday September 25, 2020 Full Episode Transcript

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