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The AIH Transcript for August 24, 2020

Hosts: Helen Mann and Chris Howden

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello. I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

HM: Late results, early optimism. Some of the Conservative members who backed Erin O'Toole are first-time MPs. One of them explains why she thinks the new leader has a golden opportunity to attract young voters.

CH: Forcing the issue. We hear from a lawmaker in Idaho about the moment that protesters, some armed, forced their way into the statehouse today. They're angry about government imposed COVID-19 restrictions.

HM: Another police shooting in the U.S. and lots more questions. Protests broke out after police in Wisconsin shot a black man multiple times. An elected official tells us his gut dropped when he saw the video of the shooting.

CH: Michigan will pay the victims of the Flint water crisis 600-million dollars for the damage done by lead poisoned water. But one Flint mother tells us nothing can compensate her for the pain her family has suffered.

HM: Caught by surprise. A Newfoundland fisherman is still reeling after hauling in a very weird, deep sea creature that he says looks more like a platypus than a fish.

CH: And really berry hungry. David Rush adds to his 150 plus Guinness World Records by consuming 107 blueberries one by one in 60 seconds. AsIt Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that talks till it's blueberry in the face.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Erin O'Toole has support of millennial party members, says 1st-time Conservative MP

New Conservative leader

Guest: Raquel Dancho

CH: There were delays upon delays. A malfunctioning machine that unhelpfully tore up ballots. And a lot of tired Conservatives waiting anxiously for a result into the wee hours. But early this morning, Erin O'Toole emerged as the new leader of the Conservative Party of Canada. The Ontario MP and former cabinet minister began the year as an underdog candidate and managed to beat frontrunner Peter Mackay for the win. Here's some of what Mr. O'Toole told conservatives after his victory.

ERIN O'TOOLE: We could be into an election campaign as soon as this fall. But as more than 260,000 passionate conservatives have already shown in this record-breaking leadership amidst a pandemic, the Conservative Party will be ready for the next election. And we will win the next election. [Crowd applauds] To the millions of Canadians that are still up, that I'm meeting tonight for the first time, Good morning. I'm Erin O'Toole. You're going to be seeing and hearing a lot from me in the coming weeks and months. But I want you to know from the start that I am here to fight for you and your family.

CH: Raquel Dancho is a first time Conservative MP in Winnipeg. Today, we reached her in Gimli, Manitoba.

HM: Ms. Dancho, how is Erin O'Toole going to help your party win the next federal election?

RAQUEL DANCHO: Well, Helen, I think just the way that he has united our party and got the most support across the country and really in many of our jurisdictions that are very critical to winning an election. So we saw great support for him in Ontario. We saw excellent support for him in Quebec. And very strong support in the west and in B.C.. I think he's had the most uniting, consensus building, moderate message, but also brought together parts of our party that absolutely need to be represented and respected. So if he could thread that fine needle for the Conservative Party, I'm very confident he could do the same on a national level with all Canadians.

HM: What does it say that he felt he had to introduce himself this morning?

RD: You know, I think he's going to do great. I think Canadians will get to know him very quickly. His acceptance speech early this morning, was very well received across the country on multiple news outlets. So I think his speech was very inspiring, it had an exciting message. And he was also very firm in wanting to reach out and broaden the Conservative Party base, which I think is much needed and very exciting. And quite frankly, Helen, I think people are looking for a legitimate alternative to Justin Trudeau and his leadership style and what he stands for. I think they're looking for something new. And I think Erin is that new guy.

HM: You've said that Mr. O'Toole had a moderate message and that he will unite the party. But during the campaign, he promised to take back Canada, to defund the CBC, defend Canada's history and institution from attacks on the left, and defend the rule of law. That's a campaign message that would tend to play well with the conservative base. How do you think it will play well more broadly during an election campaign?

RD: I think, Helen, I'm hearing this across the country and across my own ridings, that they are frustrated with Justin Trudeau and they want to feel that they have an alternative. And I see these issues Erin is discussing, quite frankly, does not shy away from a difficult conversation, but is able to talk about it, I believe, in a very respectful way that can really open people's minds to a different policy alternatives. To the CBC, I think this is something I've talked about broadly beyond the Conservative Party, that the CBC is really operating on an outdated model and it works really well in the 30s years and decades following. But, you know, I'm sure you'd be the first to say there's a mass layoff in journalism over the last decade. It's not working. And unfortunately, the prime minister gave 600, what is it, billion dollars to the CBC and at the cost of our local news media stations that we all depend on, our local papers -- they weren't receiving the same support. They're not receiving the same support. So it's uncompetitive and it's impacting our local news.

HM: So what is 'Take Back Canada' mean, though?

RD: Well, I think what we're seeing across the country is a lot of unrest. I think you'll remember before the pandemic hit, there was a lot of unrest with blockades, people weren't able to get to work, it was very unsettling. We were seeing a threat from China, that really seems to be going un-met. I think what Erin is really saying is he's speaking as a Canadian patriot.

HM: Some pundits and observers saw that as a dog whistle to much more right-wing elements to those who oppose immigration.

RD: No, you know, I wouldn't agree. I have had those conversations with Erin about immigration. He recognizes it's incredibly important. We want to see secure borders and a strong immigration system that's well respected across the world with adequate support for newcomers and refugees. And that's really just not what we're seeing, in my opinion, from the Trudeau government.

HM: So what do you think Mr. O'Toole offers to young people that the prime minister doesn't? Because you said you think he'll reach out to millennials and broaden the base of support.

RD: What we're seeing with Erin O'Toole, that he did politics differently. He moved online and did a fantastic social media campaign with a lot of really good quality video content. And that, as we know, is the future. People are taking in the news and taking in policy on their phones. And Erin set the standard and rewrote the book on how to do that on social media as a political leader, and really, frankly, moved the Conservative Party forward on social media, which is the future.

HM: Right. But the medium is one thing. The other is the message, of course. And you know, we're dealing with a time of great precariousness for young people. Social media is one thing. But how would your party's message about eliminating spending resonate with young people who have been dealing with so many job losses during COVID-19?

RD: Well, I think the message really Helen is about fiscal responsibility over the long term. So we would have been in a better position to afford this pandemic had Justin Trudeau would not spend a hundred billion dollars worth of deficits in the first five years or four years of his mandate.

HM: But I've been hearing this message that he should've been better prepared, that he should have shown more economic responsibility prior. But the reality is you've got these challenges, these huge economic and health challenges of COVID-19. So what would your party's alternative be to keep people and businesses afloat at this time during the pandemic?

RD: Well, he's looking to unleash the potential of Canada to develop our natural resources, to create jobs and really kickstart our economy again. And that's exactly the message I believe young people want to hear with an optimism for the future. We're going to bring back jobs, we are going to create new opportunities for people. We're going to modernize, we are going to develop our natural resources. We need a strong message -- someone who believes in what Canada can create, and that is very much Erin O'Toole.

HM: You talk of natural resources development, but, you know, most polling tells us that younger voters are deeply concerned about climate change and in fact, it may be the most important issue to them. So Mr. O'Toole has said he wants to scrap the carbon tax. He briefly did say he backed ending fossil fuel subsidies. But the day after that showed up in his platform, he backed off on it. So what is the plan to address climate change?

RD: You know, I think what Erin O'Toole's very extensive platform has shown that he has open -- nothing is off the table. He is open to discussing anything that will move this country forward. And you're right, I think young people are concerned about climate change. In fact, everyone should be concerned about the environment and they should be equally concerned about the economic outlook of our country. And, you know, I'll disagree -- I think that there is actually a lot of people who worked in the resource sector, that's forestry, mining, the fossil fuel sector, I would even argue agriculture -- they no longer have those opportunities to say, go to Alberta, (inaudible) Saskatchewan, since Justin Trudeau took governments those young job opportunities have been frankly taken away. And young people are really looking for opportunity and have pride in what their country creates. That's what I believe. And I very much think that we can figure out a way to develop our natural resources, create a robust, strong, thriving economy and take care of our environment for generations to come. Certainly my priorities and I know that's what Erin believes as well.

HM: Is your party gearing up for a fall election?

RD: I think Erin is saying he is battle ready. He has a seat in the House of Commons. We're ready to go whenever the call is made. And I think we're going to be working really really hard over the next number of weeks. And we have high expectations for what's going to be in that throne speech, I know my voters also do. And Conservatives will be looking at that with a fine tooth comb. You know, we're hearing rumors that the Liberals are already breaking deals with the NDP to be supported. But ultimately, the Conservatives are ready to go to the polls to defeat Justin Trudeau really any time.

HM: Ms. Dancho I really appreciate your time today. Thank you very much.

RD: Yeah. Thank you Helen. Take care.

HM: You too. Bye.

CH: Raquel Dancho is the Conservative MP for Kildonan-St. Paul in Winnipeg. Today, we reached her in Gimli, Manitoba. And for more on what Ms. Dancho had to say, go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Wisconsin shooting

Guest: Zach Rodriguez

CH: The video is disturbing enough if you close your eyes. There are seven shots and then a car horn sounds as though someone has fallen under the steering wheel. But it's more disturbing with your eyes open because you see Jacob Blake, a Black man in Kenosha, Wisconsin, going to the driver's side of his SUV, followed by two police officers with their guns raised. As Mr. Blake opens the car door one officer grabs his shirt and shoots him in the back. Jacob Blake was taken to hospital in serious condition. Furious protests followed with buildings and vehicles set on fire or destroyed. The Wisconsin Department of Justice is investigating the shooting. Zach Rodriguez is a Kenosha County supervisor. We reached him in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

HM: Mr. Rodriguez, what was your gut reaction when you saw this video of Jacob Blake being shot?

ZACH RODRIGUEZ: I felt my gut drop. That was my initial reaction to see something like this happen in my own city.

HM: What have you been able to find out about how Mr. Blake is doing today?

ZR: I haven't gotten an update during the day here. I was last updated in the very wee hours of the morning that he was out of surgery and stable, but critical condition.

HM: So still critical as far as you know.

ZR: Correct.

HM: What more can you tell us about Mr. Blake? What was Mr. Blake doing at the time of the shooting?

ZR: To my knowledge, he was either picking up or dropping off the kids or something of the sort.

HM: There are reports that he was actually trying to break up a situation involving some other people. Do you know anything about that?

ZR: Correct. I had heard that as well, that there was a domestic call for, you know, that fight and that he may have been trying to break that up when police arrived.

HM: Now, you went to the scene of the shooting after the news broke. Once you were there speaking to people, what did you learn about what happened?

ZR: Pretty much just that. There wasn't a whole lot. It sounds like not everybody really saw what was going on and it may have happened pretty quickly.

HM: And yet there's that video. We want to point out, it's an unverified video, but it's been viewed many times over and it appears to show Mr. Blake being shot in the back by police.

ZR: Correct.

HM: What questions are still unanswered for you then?

ZR: Really, what happened? And what led to the shooting of a man in the back seven times?

HM: I understand you have spoken with Mr. Blake's neighbours. Is that right?

ZR: That is correct.

HM: And what are they telling you?

ZR: That's pretty much all they know as well as -- that he was trying to break up a fight, and next thing you know, he was getting shot in front of his three children.

HM: And the children were in the vehicle where he was shot?

ZR: That's correct. That's what I've been told.

HM: You have now also gone to the site of the protests. Tell us what you heard from people that you spoke with there.

ZR: A lot of anger, a lot of animosity towards just the current race relationships right now in the U.S.. You know, everybody kind of seems shocked and some not shocked at all that it happens right here in our own backyard.

HM: Why are they shocked? I mean, as I understand it, there have been 18 police involved deaths in southeast Wisconsin in the last 20 years.

ZR: I think it's one of those things where, you know, you see it on TV and you sympathize and you feel for those individuals, but you never think it's going to be in your own community.

HM: Do you think those past incidents over the last 20 years have been adequately investigated?

ZR: I wouldn't say yes or no to that. I think that takes on a case by case basis. There's one here in Kenosha County that happened with the city of Kenosha, some time ago that is still semi relevant. And that's an example to me -- that was the Michael Bell shooting, where that investigation we felt -- or I felt and a lot of community members feel was rushed and not as transparent as it should have been.

HM: How would you describe relationships between the police and the Black community in that neighbourhood?

ZR: Based on what I heard, it's not my own neighbourhood so I don't want to speak for the residents, but to the residents that I did speak with they said that they'd never had anything like this happen in that neighbourhood. But I think countywide, citywide here in Kenosha, there's definitely tensions and those tensions are very high.

HM: Well, we saw those tensions wrap up with these protests. There was some destruction as well. Can you describe what you know about that?

ZR: Yeah. So I actually had the opportunity to see it firsthand. Most of our downtown storefronts have been very seriously damaged. We had some very serious fires going on. I've also been told that there were attempts or possibly successful attempts to start fires in our courthouse. They broke windows. They burnt garbage trucks. And they -- when I say 'they' I don't mean the protesters -- I view those as instigators and those who are simply here to take advantage of the situation.

HM: But does their action reflect any feelings in the community -- among those protesters, feelings of frustration, of anger?

ZR: For sure. Yeah. And I've received emails this morning from residents both in Kenosha County and outside of Kenosha County that say, you know, we can rebuild property, but we can't, you know, bring back somebody who's died at the hands of police when maybe they shouldn't have.

HM: You have been pushing for changes in the county to address racism and police violence. What does the shooting say to you about what more needs to be done?

ZR: I think once we know more facts of the situation and what happened here, we can go from there. But I think at the very least, we need more civilian led groups or committees that that oversee these departments so that, you know, the community knows that they're being inspected or our police department or sheriff's department, so they know they're held accountable. And it's not just held all within each individual part.

HM: The Wisconsin Department of Justice is the one investigating this. The officers involved are on administrative leave right now. Is that the way this should be investigated? Is that who should be responsible in your mind for seeing what happened?

ZR: Yes. So if you look back at the Michael Bell shooting that really led the changen'there in Wisconsin, which led the change nationwide. Wisconsin was the first state to pass new state laws that mandates when there is a police shooting, an outside agency has to investigate. So that way, the police aren't investigating themselves -- being their own agency. I think that's the best way to do it. That's the most transparent way to do it. By using the Wisconsin Department of Justice to conduct this investigation, there isn't any perceived bias that maybe, you know, this happened with a city police department and the county sheriff's department was investigating, you know, because those two agencies are housed under the same roof, literally.

HM: How confident are you that justice will be done in this case?

ZR: Fairly confident. I certainly hope so. There's been a lot of calls that if you know that was you or I, that we'd be sitting in the county jail right now and I can't help but feel the same way.

HM: Mr. Rodriguez, thank you for speaking with us.

ZR: For sure. Thank you.

CH: Zach Rodriguez is a county supervisor in Kenosha, Wisconsin. You can find more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Fahrenheit 451

CH: Few novels illustrate the importance of unfettered access to books as vividly as the one that takes its title from the temperature at which they burn: Fahrenheit 451. The McCarthy era cautionary tale remains one of the most checked-out books at American libraries, which is one of the reasons libraries across the U.S. got together this weekend to celebrate what would have been Ray Bradbury's 100th birthday with a celebrity read-a-thon. Another reason is Mr. Bradbury's own lifelong appreciation of the institutions. "Libraries are absolutely at the centre of my life," he once said. Neil Gaiman is one of the many authors and actors who took part in the read-a-thon. Here he is with the opening passages of Fahrenheit 451.

NEIL GAIMAN: It was a pleasure to burn. It was a special pleasure to see things eaten, to see things blackened and changed. With the brass nozzle in his fists, with this great python spitting its venomous kerosene upon the world, the blood pounded in his head, and his hands were the hands of some amazing conductor playing all the symphonies of blazing and burning to bring down the tatters and charcoal ruins of history. With his symbolic helmet numbered 451 on his stolid head, and his eyes all orange flame with the thought of what came next, he flicked the igniter and the house jumped up in a gorging fire that burned the evening sky red and yellow and black. He strode in a swarm of fireflies. He wanted above all, like the old joke, to shove a marshmallow on a stick in the furnace, while the flapping pigeon-winged books died on the porch and lawn of the house. While the books went up in sparkling whirls and blew away on a wind turned dark with burning.

CH: Author Neil Gaiman reading from Fahrenheit 451. The Ray Bradbury read-a-thon took place on Saturday, which would have been Mr. Bradbury's 100th birthday.

[Music]

Newfoundland weird fish

Guest: Garry Goodyear

CH: If someone asked you to draw a fish, you'd probably draw something along the lines of a Turbot, the big round flat fish that looks like something out of a cartoon. Earlier this month, Garry Goodyear was out fishing for Turbot. But when the Newfoundland fishermen pulled up his nets, he didn't find that standard fish-shaped fish. He found something out of a sci-fi thriller instead. We reached Garry Goodyear in Bonavista Bay, Newfoundland.

HM: Garry, take us back to that day on the water in that moment when you first spotted the creature in your net. What went through your mind?

GARRY GOODYEAR: I mean, we were on the way to our turbot nets and just picking out turbot. And all of a sudden this thing, creature, bizarre-weird-looking-thing came across the roller. Oh my God. We stopped in our tracks. What in the name of God we got there?

HM: [Chuckles] My goodness. And everybody reacted the same way?

GG: Everybody. Everybody just stopped and said 'What the name of God is it?'.

HM: So what did it look like?

GG: Well, closest thing when I saw it first, I was like, well, we've got a duck-billed platypus because has a big snout on it. I picked it on the net and put it on the edge, sized it up and my God! I've never seen the like of that.

HM: You sized it up. How big is it?

GG: It was about three feet long. It had the ugliest little lip you ever want to see.

HM: [Laughs] Ugly lips?

GG: Oh, yeah. We went, "Oh man." The snout was, you know, about a foot long and it was about, I would say, about four inches across -- and it went out to a pointed a tip and that was just like rubber. And when I turned it on the side, its lips -- they were about an inch thick and right together and no teeth to be seen. [Chuckles] And I didn't know what in the name of waters we had.

HM: What about the fins?

GG: The fins on it when I spread it out -- the fins are just like wings.

HM: Wings?

GG: Like bird's wings, same thing as bird wings.

HM: Wow.

GG: Yeah. I mean, we've never seen nothing like that and we didn't know what it was. So I said, well, I'll take a picture and just put on Facebook and perhaps someone knows it -- we'll find out. Indeed, we found out what it was.

HM: What is it?

GG: A long-nosed chimaera.

HM: A long-nosed chimaera. Have you ever heard of one before?

GG: Never before in my life, sir.

HM: Right. What have you learned about this thing?

GG: Well, I've learned since that and I've seen marine biologists and people have been talking about it. It don't even have a skeleton. It's all cartilage. Got no bone in it whatsoever. And I guess that's why the snout on it was like rubber. It's got neon green eyes.

HM: Neon green?

GG: Yeah.

HM: That's creepy.

GG: Yeah. You've got that right -- it's creepy. [Chuckles] And it has a sharp spine too -- what do they say -- and it's got venom in it. And we ran on that with bare hands.

HM: Its spine is venomous.

GG: Yeah. Yeah. That's what I've been reading.

HM: Wow. But nobody was hurt.

GG: No. Well, we were lucky because I mean, we were just handling it, you know, turning it over and picking it up, looking at it with just bare hands. But I can guarantee you one thing, if we get any more strange creatures, we'll be careful because you don't know what's down there in the deep.

HM: Is this something that it usually is found in your area around Bonavista Bay?

GG: No, no, no. I've only heard a couple now that I've seen since I put this on Facebook. One in Nova Scotia and another one somewhere else in Newfoundland. They are really deep water fish, right. They are extremely extremely rare to catch.

HM: So what did you do with it?

GG: I threw it overboard.

HM: No.

GG: Yes, I did. What a dummy. [Chuckles] I mean I should have frozen and kept and mounted it. But I mean, we weren't expecting to catch something rare as that. You know, we just thought it was just another different fish because we catch a lot of different things. But this one took the cake.

HM: But at least people know what the photographs and the witnesses -- it's not like a fish story or a sea monster story.

GG: Oh no. There's not a tall tale at all. No, no. I took five pictures there and everybody saw it. And the crowd, when we came into port -- like the fishermen and plant workers and people who fished all their lives, never heard talk of it, never seen it before.

HM: What do those folks think? What do your family think?

GG: Well, they were "What in the name of God do you got there?" you know. And they all said, what a fool, you threw it overboard. [Laughter]

HM: When you threw it over was it still alive?

GG: No it was dead when we got it, because I guess the water pressure changes from, you know, down to the surface. So it wouldn't survive anyway.

HM: Have you ever found out whether they make good eating?

GG: No, I don't know that. I wouldn't try anyway because it's too ugly to eat.

HM: And with that venomous spine, you'd probably have to be really careful with it.

GG: Yeah. You wouldn't want to get that one stuck in your hands somewhere. [Chuckles]

HM: You certainly have a story to tell.

GG: Yeah. Yeah. But a sad ending because I threw the sucker away.

HM: Well, I'm sorry about that. You'll be like one of those people searching for the Loch Ness Monster and go back looking for more?

GG: Oh my God. If you had to find another one of them, I'll say, it's like winning the lotto twice because I mean, that'll never happen no more.

HM: Maybe you should go buy a lotto ticket.

GG: [Laughs] I did. And I didn't win.

HM: Oh darn. [Laughter] Mr. Goodyear, it's a great story. A really ugly critter. Thank you very much for sharing the story with us.

GG: Not a problem.

HM: Okay. Nice to talk to you. Bye.

GG: Nice talking to you too. Take care.

CH: Newfoundland fisherman Garry Goodyear caught a rare deep sea creature called a long-nosed chimaera. We reached him in Bonavista Bay, Newfoundland and Labrador.

[Music]

Part 2: Idaho legislature protests

Idaho legislature protests

Guest: Ilana Rubel

CH: Today was not a normal day in the Idaho legislature. State lawmakers weren't even supposed to be meeting, but Governor Brad Little had called a special session to deal with preparations for the general election. Preparations for that session were their own hurdle, with measures taken to protect lawmakers from the threat posed by COVID-19. And yet nothing prepared any of them for what ended up happening this morning.

CROWD: [SOUNDCLIP: (Crowd chanting -- "Let us in")]

CH: Chanting "Let us in," a large group of largely unmasked protesters stormed the Idaho statehouse, clashing with police and breaking a glass door before taking over the House gallery. Democratic House Minority Leader Ilana Rubel was there and shot that video. She's in Boise, Idaho.

HM: Ms. Rubel, what's it like at the state house right now?

ILANA RUBEL: Well, we are completely flooded with people coming in to protest -- just standing in these rooms, hundreds of people, no masks, no distancing. There had been a plan that the public, that there were supposed to be very limited occupancy in the gallery. And a large portion of it was supposed to be set aside for legislators who have health problems so that they could sit in a safer distance fashion. This morning, some angry armed protesters came to the door of the gallery, were chanting and yelling very loudly, charged a security guard, broke the door to the gallery and then got in and, you know, yanked all the signs off of the seats and took down all the ropes and basically occupied the entire gallery. And again, you know, no distancing, no masks, no nothing completely full.

HM: It sounds pretty frightening. What were you thinking and feeling while all this was going on?

IR: It was very frightening. I mean, things were clearly taking, you know, potentially a violent turn upstairs. You know, my office is on the third floor. And all of this was happening right at the top of the stairs outside my office. I was able to take a couple of quick pictures of broken glass on the ground and a little short video of all the yelling and chanting. And then it just didn't seem safe to stay there. And then, like an army of police came passing me all the way down to back up the guards because the guards were clearly, you know, outnumbered and getting press back. But then ultimately, I think they kind of gave up and they said, you know, okay, fine, you know, take over the gallery.

HM: You mentioned that some people were armed. Is that a usual thing for protests there?

IR: Well, that is fairly common here, yes. So that part of things is not unusual here. But in my -- you know, I've been in for seven sessions, and this certainly was the first time that I had seen, you know, that level of anger and, you know, actual damage. You know, the actual breaking down of a door was something certainly I'd never seen here.

HM: What do you know about what these protesters want?

IR: I think there's very high anger levels at the various precautionary measures that have been taken by government throughout this. And Idaho is actually one of the states that has taken fewer of the precautionary measures than a lot of other states do. But there are some counties and some areas that have mask requirements -- and the county I'm in is one of them. But these folks, I think were very angry at a lot of this. They were angry at mask requirements. They were angry at, you know, the fact that there had been shut down orders earlier in the pandemic. They are angry at, you know, the fear that there could be a vaccine requirement at some point, although there isn't one at all and really no sign of one. There's just kind of a whole array of things that I think are getting people worked up in terms of, you know, past and prospective future precautionary measures that could be taken to control the pandemic spread.

HM: Ammon Bundy was reportedly among the organizers of today's protest. He's well known as one of the leaders of the armed occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon back in 2016. What does his involvement tell you about this protest movement and who's involved?

IR: You know, it's part of a broader phenomenon that we have out here that's really in force in Idaho, which is this sort of anti-government anti-authority movement, a feeling that, you know, everybody should just be completely free of any regulation or any government requirements whatsoever and that even, you know, taking measures that, you know, may break the law sometimes I think they feel are okay in service of that ideology. And frankly, you know, they've always been able to get away with it. The Bundys have a long history of defying federal law. You know, some of the crew that was part of that occupation, you know, aimed guns at federal agents and occupied, you know, extensively damaged federal property. And really, there was never any accountability for any of that. So I think that movement has become very emboldened that essentially they will never really get in trouble, that everybody will basically turn a blind eye to whatever defiance of the law they engage in.

HM: I presume there are people there who support wearing masks and who are doing so. How divided are people in your state when it comes to this pandemic and the rules that are being imposed?

IR: People are very very divided on this issue. You know, there are certainly some who think it's important and who religiously wear their masks. There is a large group that are very very anti-mask. You know, a guy came to my house a few days ago, you know, declaring that he will never ever wear a mask and nobody will ever make him, and it's his God given right to not wear a mask. There were even mask burning parties out here because the city of Boise issued masks to people for free as part of their -- you know, when they said there was a mask order, they gave out free masks to help people comply with that order. And a number of these folks took a bunch of the free masks from the city and burned them and had mask burning parties out in the streets. And, you know, a lot of the folks that are here today, I did not see one mask in any of the committee rooms or in the gallery. You know, the hundreds of folks that are packing the rooms here today are not wearing masks at all.

HM: So what happens if this becomes a super spreader event? Is the legislature itself somehow complicit?

IR: Well, I think so. I mean, I have characterized this as a huge super spreader event. This might be the biggest super spreader event that we've had in the state since the pandemic hit Idaho. I mean, this is equivalent to, you know, having a rock concert or something with everybody packed into a crowded, sweaty room with no masks. It's ironic that, you know, our governor has spoken of the need to wear masks and has spoken of the need to control the pandemic spread. But then he called this special session with no requirements, in effect, for anybody to engage in any of the precautionary measures or distancing or anything. So I do feel like the government is very complicit right now in putting on a super spreader event.

HM: This special session where this protest happened was actually called to look into voting protocols for November and sort of protecting people ahead of that vote. Are you concerned about, you know, more unrest in advance of the general election?

IR: Well, I'm concerned for a number of reasons. Yeah, I mean, Idaho actually has a pretty good vote-by-mail program. And, you know, it's quite easy to vote by mail here. You don't need any special excuses. But now with, you know, the war on the U.S. Postal Service and everybody losing confidence about whether their ballot will ever actually arrive, that will likely push more people into in-person voting. And the problem that we have here is a lot of our poll workers are senior citizens, retirees, often people who have health problems. So a huge proportion of the folks who normally are the election officials who work at these places have already said they won't come in to work the polls. So that's part of our problem here is we have a shortage of poll workers from these folks who just aren't going to show up to do it anymore.

HM: We're going to have to leave it there for now. But we will be watching Ms. Rubel. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

IR: Thank you. Bye bye.

CH: Ilana Rubel is the Democratic House minority leader for the Idaho state legislature. We reached her earlier today in Boise.

[Music]

Canoe4COVID

CH: This summer, Cailan Robinson and his friends were all in the same boat -- well boats, I assume. The six teenagers from Toronto spent the last 60 days canoeing an epic 2000 kilometres across the province. They started in Wabakimi Provincial Park north of Thunder Bay and arrived in Ottawa today by way of the Ottawa River, at which point they portage up to Parliament Hill. They call themselves the Canoe 4COVID Team. Their goal was to raise money for Food Banks Canada to help communities during the pandemic. As of today, they've raised over 76,000 dollars. Cailan Robinson spoke to Ottawa Morning today via satellite phone as the Canoe4COVID team prepared for the final stretch.

CAILAN ROBINSON: They are our longest days has definitely been on Lake Nipigon, just south of Wabakimi Provincial Park. It was, I think, day eight of trip when we went 80 kilometres or more across Lake Nipigon and did a 16 kilometre crossing in the middle of the lake. So that was definitely a tiring day. You know, woke up at six, finished at eight.

HALLIE COTNAM: What's the best way to describe how your arms and back and shoulder muscles feel after a day like that?

CAILAN ROBINSON: You're definitely tired, but towards the end you get these, like, jolting pains in your muscles. And it's tough, but almost to the point, especially on a big lake like that where you can see your campsite or see where you're going to camp in terms of what's in the distance. It's really easy to keep going.

HALLIE COTNAM: Now, this trip sounds like it was a bit of a pandemic plan B. What what would you normally have been doing this summer if the pandemic hadn't come along?

CAILAN ROBINSON: Yeah, so normally, actually, we all met as staff at Camp Ahmek in Algonquin Park. Me and George sat in April in quarantine thinking to ourselves, hey, I don't know if camp is going to happen this year because of COVID, so let's just make a plan B, get some of the boys together and plan this ridiculous 60 day trip and we'll shoot for the stars and do it for a good cause and take our skill of canoe tripping and actually help people out with it. You know, raised the money for food banks that we raise.

HALLIE COTNAM: Tell me about a highlight and lowlight, because after two months in a canoe with all these buddies, there must have been plenty of both.

CAILAN ROBINSON: I think one of the most difficult parts that we can all agree was our segment from Chapleau to Espanola. There's no lakes really there. So it's basically just portaging for four days in a row. But every portage you take is a bushwhack. It's not a cut out area. You've got to cut out your own campsites at night. So it was this really difficult time in our trip. And we call that area of the "dark lands." And we pushed past that and we make our way out of the dark lands and finally get to the top of the Spanish River. And that was, I think, the highlight going down the Spanish River after just dealing with this difficult pain for the last days and then finally being rewarded with a fast flowing current and being able to shoot down some very fun rapids and move our way into Espanola, where we were greeted very nicely by the locals there. And it was just a wonderful experience, and had a great time on the trip.

CH: Cailan Robinson and five friends arrived in Ottawa today after spending the last 60 days travelling by canoe across Ontario. He spoke with Hallie Cotnam on Ottawa Morning.

[Music]

Flint water settlement

Guest: Nakiya Wakes

CH: The state of Michigan has finally reached a settlement with the victims of the Flint water crisis. But that doesn't mean residents of Flint think the water is safe. Michigan has said it will pay 600-million dollars to victims with most of the money going to children affected by lead poisoning. Back in 2015, the government admitted that the water was unsafe to drink 18 months after switching the city's water source to the Flint River to save money. Now it's compensating residents for injuries and property damage they sustained from the exposure. Nakiya Wakes has been fighting for some kind of justice since the water crisis started back in 2014. She's a Flint resident and a mother. We reached Ms. Wakes in Flint.

HM: Ms. Wakes, what kind of a difference will this settlement make to the lives of you and your son?

NAKIYA WAKES: Really, I don't know, because there's a lot of people that have signed up on this settlement. And there has been so much money coming into Flint. Who's to say when we're going to receive this money? For one after like 600-million is not enough. I was pregnant with twins, lost them both times. So there's not no money that they can give me that would bring my babies back. There's not enough money that they can give me to help the lead exposure that my kids have endured. I mean, lead exposure is irreversible.

HM: Can you take us back to 2014 and tell us when you first noticed something was wrong with the water?

NW: I kept having to go to the emergency room. I kept breaking out. They kept giving me Benadryl. But I noticed the Benadryl would take the bumps and all of that away. But then as soon as I get in the water again, same thing. My daughter had hair loss. We were breaking out. My son started having behavioural problems. I didn't notice all of that until 2015, when Governor Snyder came out with lead in the water and then Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha started telling about the side effects the kids and babies would have. Then I started noticing it in my kids.

HM: This victim compensation fund is for anyone who was injured from the water, although most of that money is earmarked for children. But you said that you had miscarriages too.

NW: Yes, I was pregnant in 2015. Miscarried twins. And then I got pregnant two years later in 2017 miscarried twins again.

HM: And you blame the water for that?

NW: Yes. And my daughter had a miscarriage when she was 18. She's 21 now. She was drinking this contaminated water also. Who's to say if she can ever have kids? So 600-million is not enough.

HM: Beyond the settlement, what would it take for you to believe justice was done?

NW: What it would take for me is Governor Snyder and everyone involved should be incarcerated, locked up. There was death under this water crisis, under [inaudible] while Governor Snyder was in office. He should be held accountable and everyone else should be held accountable for their actions.

HM: The state attorney general dropped all criminal charges last year against eight officials, she does say she plans on bringing new charges, but it hasn't happened yet. Do you think it will?

NW: They lie. But like I say, this has been going on over six years and we finally got this. But as I said, it is not good enough. But I mean, there's really nothing good enough until everyone is held accountable for their actions to me.

HM: How old was your son when this started?

NW: Five years out.

HM: And what effect has it had on him?

NW: He's currently not going to school because of the effect it had on him -- he was already ADHD, but the lead exposure caused behavioural problems. He has cognitive problems, intellectual disability now. So it's caused a lot with my son. I mean, he started going into puberty early. It was just back to back, something going on with this contamination of this water. And like I keep telling everybody, the lead exposure -- I mean, that plays a main part, but that was not the only thing that we was exposed to. We was exposed to heavy carcinogens and other stuff that was in the water. GM had been dumping pollution, and it was all stuck in our water for years before they switched to that water.

HM: Well, you said that you think, you know, there's other things in the water besides the lead -- the carcinogens that you mentioned. Now that Flint has declared the water safe to drink and so many of the lead pipes have been replaced, how comfortable are you with drinking out of the taps in your home or use water at all?

NW: Not comfortable at all. No one is. For one, everybody is like 'oh they changed the pipes' -- no, they changed the pipes from the street. We still have the same pipes that was pumping 1,500 parts per billion of lead through my house. I still got them pipes. So how is changing from the street going to make our water fresh? No.

HM: I understand that they switched the source of the water back to Lake Huron instead of the Detroit River. That's not alleviating any of your concerns?

NW: They can say what they want to. We probably still [phone beep sound] Flint water -- the river water.

HM: You really don't believe that they've done what they've said?

NW: No, no. I'm always getting bottled water.

HM: So you're still spending money for bottled water to drink?

NW: Yes. Still paying water bills for water we can't drink.

HM: Right. What would it take for you to trust public officials again?

NW: I've been asked this question a lot, and I still don't have the answer. I don't know if I will ever trust public officials again. Like I said, it's been over six years and we still cannot drink this water here in Flint, Michigan. We're still buying bottled water over six years. And I really feel like it's because the majority in Flint is low poverty and the majority of us is African-American.

HM: What has this been like for you as a parent?

NW: There have been times that I wanted to break down. I mean, I lost not two, but four babies in two years due to drinking contaminated water, then have to, for the rest of our lives, see what's going to go on in 10 years from now with my son.

HM: Ms. Wakes it's a terrible situation, and you're still living, obviously, with the aftermath of it all. Thank you very much for talking with us.

NW: Thank you so much also.

HM: All right. Take care. Bye bye.

NW: Bye.

CH: Nakiya Wakes is a Flint resident whose family was affected by lead poisoning from contaminated drinking water. We reached her in Flint, Michigan.

[Music]

David Rush

CH: David Rush is an avid record collector. The more obscure, the better. And when he finds obscure records, he shatters them. I don't mean he spends his time searching for rare Hall and Oates albums to smash into bits. I mean, he finds odd world records and smashes them. In the past five years, Mr. Rush has broken more than 150 Guinness World Records with the goal of promoting STEM education, as in science, technology, engineering and mathematics. Mr. Rush has balanced a running lawnmower on his chin longer than anyone else. He has frisbeed a tortilla farther than anyone else. He is the world's fastest juggler, as well as the world's slowest juggler. Since June alone, he's set new records by slicing 65 Kiwi fruits in one minute with a sword, keeping three balloons in the air for an hour and 13 minutes, and drinking a liter of lime juice through a straw in seventeen point two nine seconds.

[SOUNDCLIP: Slurping sounds]

CH: Oh, yeah. He did that with lemon juice too. So couple of bad acid trips there. But he survived. And last week he did it again, eating dozens of blueberries in one minute singlehandedly, which seems like no big deal, except that I mean that literally. Here's a snippet from his video of that achievement.

DAVID RUSH: The trick you to pick up each blueberry and eat them individually. Previous record was 96. Oh shoot I'm going to have to start with one on the table and one behind the back. All right.

VOICE: [Counting down] 3, 2, 1 go! [Music plays]

CH: And here is the triumphant finish.

DAVID RUSH: Come on! 107 blueberries eaten in one minute -- one at a time. Come on yum.

CH: 107 blueberries eaten one by one in 60 seconds. Another entry in Guinness for David Rush, a guy who claims broken records so often he is like a broken record.

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August 24, 2020 Episode Transcript

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