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The AIH Transcript for August 12, 2020

Hosts: Peter Armstrong and Ali Hassan

Prologue

PETER ARMSTRONG: Hello. I'm Peter Armstrong, sitting in for Carol Off.

ALI HASSAN: Good evening. I'm Ali Hassan, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

AH: Tonight:

PA: There will be flood. The Pacific island nation of Kiribati is sinking. Now the president has an ambitious plan to elevate his country. We reached the B.C. scientist who's helping figure out how to make it work.

AH: Trial by fire. After landing her first job in Red Lake, Ontario, a doctor finds herself working despite a massive forest fire as the rest of the town evacuates to safer ground.

PA: That sinking feeling. A boat tour around Nova Scotia's mysterious Oak Island turns into a dramatic real life rescue when the captain spots a man drowning and jumps into action.

AH: Exceptions that prove the rule, might not work as intended. Edmonton is handing out COVID mask exemption cards to anyone who wants one. And that has one business leader worried.

PA: All that glitters is not gold because sometimes it's a whole whack of diamonds and gold used to fulfill a client's wish for the world's most expensive COVID-19 mask.

AH: And the diver who salvaged a bottle of whiskey from a ship that sank nearly 80 years ago has put it up for sale. You can't drink it, but the owner says that's only half the story. As It Happens. The Wednesday Edition. Radio that knows budy is in the eye of the beholder.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: The tiny Pacific nation of Kiribati wants to raise its islands to save it from the rising sea

Kiribati Sinking

Guest: Paul Kench

AH: Kiribati is going under. The low lying group of islands in the Pacific Ocean is under threat from rising sea levels caused by climate change. For years, its leaders have sounded the alarm, warning that if nothing changes, the country will soon be unlivable and the 150,000 people who call it home will be displaced. Now, Kiribati's president says he has an ambitious plan to raise the islands. Paul Kench is helping with the project. The Canadian scientist is advising the government. We reached him in Burnaby, B.C..

PA: Professor Kench, just how tricky will it be to elevate a group of islands?

PAUL KENCH: Yeah, this is a challenging project, but technically feasible. One of the issues here is that we need to raise these islands by maybe a metre or more. And so we need the aggregate, which is largely sand and gravel. And that in these settings comes from the deep lagoons where sands and gravels have been flushed into. So we need to dredge that material out of the lagoons and then we need to deposit it on the islands. And of course, that sounds easy, but there's houses and infrastructure on those islands. It's probably important to note that the islands that we're talking about are small, so they're kind of manageable projects to achieve over a timeframe of a year or several years.

PA: But you would literally take all that sand and gravel, and what, put my house on stilts and fill the gravel in underneath?

PK: That's right. So we've worked on these islands for 20 years and discovered that as sea level rises, waves push up, and over the top of islands and naturally would deposit sand and gravel on the island surfaces. And so what we're trying to do here is give nature a hand at certain sites. And so this isn't something we would do on every island in the nation, but where we have sort of more urbanized settings where natural processes have been compromised here we're trying to work with nature and replicate its processes to build the island surface.

PA: I mean, you say it's a small little island. This isn't a huge landmass we're talking about. But a massive undertaking. How long would it take to actually pull this off?

PK: Well, the planning began in earnest. I would think within a decade we could be well down the path of pulling this off. It needs a lot of commitment, political will, and an enormous amount of resources, of course.

PA: And do you get the sense that I mean, the political will also involves whether they can afford it -- how much is this going to cost?

PK: It's going to cost -- have a very high price tag. But I guess the cost of not doing it is even more dramatic if we're talking about islands having to pick up and largely move to another country. And I think this is an exciting transition in the way that governments in the small island nations are thinking about their existence, rather one of peril and defeat and being victims that have to become refugees, it's now we want to remain in place. So how do we actually plan and manage our way forward?

PA: Can the government of Kiribati actually afford this? Do they have the money to do this?

PK: In their own budget, no. And that's why they really do need external assistance, both from a technical perspective, but also the financial resources to support such an ambitious project.

PA: And I mean, a lot of the offer has come from China. And there is a fear that accepting any kind of an offer from China would involve strings attached that, you know, Beijing would want to, say, build military facilities on the islands. How valid is that concern?

PK: Well, I think they must always be a concern when you're aligning yourself with a major power in that sense. And one of the things that we need to recognize is that these atoll countries are extremely isolated. But as a consequence, they become strategically important for some of the major powers. So America has aligned itself with a number of these all island nations. And China is doing the same. Military operations become first and foremost when these alliances get created. But there's also a lot of other resources that these countries are interested in. And in the Pacific, it's tuna fishing.

PA: You know, for years -- and on this program -- we've been hearing from and about people in the region who are giving up hope that they can stay, you know, the people who are looking to migrate. Just what's at stake here? To raise the island, if it doesn't go ahead, what happens?

PK: Yeah. I mean, the hazard that these countries are facing are real and they're real now. I think what we've learned in the last 10 to 15 years of actually understanding the environmental processes in these island nations is that the physical landmass is more robust than we previously thought. So the general principle was that sea levels going up and these islands largely would just simply drown. And that's not quite the case so that these islands can actually build vertically as sea level increases. But that's really limited to those islands that are less densely populated. And what we have in each atoll nation is one or two or three islands that are heavily populated with people, and where have a lot of the economic activity takes place. And it's important that we really start to develop sensible, robust adaptation plans for those urban centres. Without that, they're going to suffer immense economic damage and they're going to have to disperse their people across their land resources in each of the archipelagos.

PA: It struck me in reading just about the enormity of the engineering of a project like this that, you know, we heard from, on this show, the former president, Anote Tong, who was really pushing for the world to take, you know, immediate and radical action to combat climate change, to prevent this sort of thing from being needed. I guess the question that came to mind is, does this project sort of mean that the people of Kiribati have essentially given up hope that action will be taken on climate change and that they need to come up with something like this?

PK: Yes, it's interesting. I mean, Anote Tong did a wonderful job in raising global awareness about the plight of atoll nations. One of the interesting things, I think is a change in attitude in the countries to say, well, we don't want to flee and go somewhere else, we want to stay -- how do we do that? The threats are real. Let's work through this and let's come up with viable adaptation strategies so that we can remain in place and retain our cultural identity.

PA: Professor, good luck. And thank you for telling us about it.

PK: Thank you.

AH: Paul Kench is the dean of science at Simon Fraser University. He was in Burnaby, B.C..

[Music]

Kamala Harris

AH: This afternoon, presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden stepped up to a podium in a school gym in Delaware. And up there with him was California Senator Kamala Harris. The event marked the duo's was first public remarks together after yesterday's announcement that they'd be running mates in the 2020 presidential race. Here's some of what Senator Harris said.

KAMALA HARRIS: This is a moment of real consequence for America. Everything we care about: our economy, our health, our children, the kind of country we live in, it's all on the line. We're reeling from the worst public health crisis in a century. The president's mismanagement of the pandemic has plunged us into the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. And we're experiencing a moral reckoning with racism and systemic injustice that has brought a new coalition of conscience to the streets of our country demanding change. America is crying out for leadership. Yet we have a president who cares more about himself than the people who elected him. But here's the good news, we don't have to accept the failed government of Donald Trump and Mike Pence. In just 83 days, we have a chance to choose a better future for our country.

AH: That was Senator Kamala Harris speaking today following the news that she will be Joe Biden's running mate.

[Music]

Oak Island Rescue

Guest: Tony Sampson

AH: Tony Sampson is well versed in the laws surrounding Nova Scotia's Oak Island. The tour boat operator knows about the ancient treasures believed to be buried on the island and why some have compared the mysterious waters that surround it to the Bermuda Triangle. But on Monday, Mr. Sampson was reminded just how dangerous the waters can be when he was out with a tour group that spotted someone in the water. We reached Tony Sampson in Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia.

PA: So, Tony, take us back to Monday and give us an idea of the sorts of stories that you're spinning to your tour group when all this unfolded.

TONY SAMPSON: Well, as we were heading out around Oak Island, we had just hit a certain part of the island that I call the 'Oak Island Triangle' because we've had strange things go wrong there in the past. We've had G.P.S. fail, radios fail, we've had outboard motor problems, drones crash in the water. I like it to the Bermuda Triangle where things go wrong. And so we were there and we were talking about the Titanic and her maiden voyage and the wreck of the SS Atlantic, when all of a sudden a gust came out of the south and blew one of my client's hat off. So I said, not a problem, I'll just spin the boat around and we will get it. And he said, no, don't worry about it, it's only a hat. And as I spun the boat around, I saw something shining in the water. And so I looked closer and started to approach it and then realized that it was a guy's head that the sun was reflecting off. And then as we got closer, we realized his arm moved and he was actually still alive.

PA: So I'm trying to imagine this through two lenses, one through yours as an experienced sort of person in the area familiar with boats and not, and then a tour group. They must have thought that this was just some kind of a prank.

TS: They did think it was a prank, Peter. They actually thought it was part of the tour, like some sort of show that we were putting on. But then I reassured them that, you know, obviously this was a life and death emergency and we had to act very very quickly.

PA: What did you do then? You see the arm move in the water. You realize it's a person and it's a person who's alive. What do you do?

TS: Initially, I grabbed my boat hook and told him to grab onto it. He was very, very, very weak. So it wasn't a very strong hold. So as soon as I managed to get him close, I grabbed his arm and we had, fortunately, a marvelous firefighter on board, David, and we also had a boat builder. And so between the three of us, we picked him up by the belt in the underarm and we threw him on one of the benches.

PA: And what kind of shape was he in once he sort of gets on board?

TS: He was in bad shape, Peter. I mean, in the water, his eyes had rolled back and the waves were actually going over his face. You know, he was in that sort of penultimate throes of death. He was he was about done. And so when we got him on board, he looked like a smurf. He was blue, obviously. His lips were very cyanotic. Confused, dazed, disorientated. So what we did was we threw some blankets over him to keep him warm. And we gunned it for shore. And while doing that, we got hold of 911 to get an ambulance.

PA: Was he able to tell you what had happened to him, how he got there?

TS: Yes. Yes. As he started to come around a bit more, he was very very appreciative, obviously, for being pulled aboard. But told us he had left Mahone Bay in the morning and didn't actually know what time of day it was or how long he had been in the water. The story we've got is his boat had capsized. There was no lifejackets, obviously, and nothing else around. He ascertained that there were no other people on board with him and it was just him in the boat heading from one by.

PA: What do you think would have happened if the person on your tour, if their hat hadn't blown off, this freak thing hadn't happened -- you probably would have gone right by him?

TS: He would have been dead, yes. We wouldn't ever have seen him. He was wearing black clothes and it was literally just the glint of his head that caught my attention.

PA: And do we know how he's doing now?

TS: I believe he was doing okay. I've heard varying reports. I've heard that he was going to get released from hospital and others have told me, no, he's going to be in for another day. So I don't actually know.

PA: But he's expected to make a full recovery?

TS: At this stage, I believe so. And I went out after we recovered him and we managed to recover his boat.

PA: Oh, you did?

TS: Yep. So with the help of the TV crew from The Curse of Oak Island, where I also work and with Zach from Mahone Marine, we worked into the night. When he recovers, hopefully if he and when he recovers, I can present his boat and motor back to him in working conditions.

PA: So as you say, you're on this TV show, The Curse of Oak Island. And you talk about all of the various mysteries that surround the island. How does it feel to now have experienced firsthand something like this right there?

TS: It's weird. It is weird, Peter. I mean, my previous life, I've spent 38 years in service military, police, fire, ambulance and paramedics. So it's not my first time pulling people out of the water. But in 38 years, it's only the second person I pulled out alive.

PA: You're kidding.

TS: No. He is a very very very lucky man.

PA: Does an incident like this, given the weirdness around Oak Island, does it give you any pause about going into those waters around the island again?

TS: No, I'm a firm believer, Peter. As I said from my past life, when your time's up, it's up. And it wasn't his turn to die today.

PA: Wow. Well, we all thank our lucky stars that that hat blew off and you just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

TS: Go figure. Well apart from Steve losing his head that was a lucky hat for this guy anyway.

PA: Indeed. Tony thank you so much for speaking to us today.

TS: Not a problem. Thank you so much, Peter. Take care.

AH: Tony Sampson is a tour boat operator who rescued a drowning man on Monday in the waters off Nova Scotia's Oak Island. We reached him in Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia.

[Music]

Old Whiskey Bottle

Guest: George Currie

VOICE: Northwest of Scotland lies the lovely islands of the Outer Hebrides. But in 1943, disaster overwhelmed this little island. Not famine, nor pestilence, nor Hilter's bombs, but something far worse [Dramatic music]: There is no whiskey!

AH: That was a trailer from the 1949 movie Whiskey Galore. It's based on the real life story of the ship wrecked S.S. Politician. She ran aground off the northwest coast of Scotland during a storm in 1941. Onboard were 264,000 bottles of whiskey. And this was good timing for a number of islanders in the area. Because whiskey was in short supply at the time. Many people tried to recover the whiskey, but the British government detonated the ship and destroyed all of its cargo, well almost all of its cargo. In 1987, George Currie discovered one of the bottles and now he's auctioning it off. We reached George Currie in Orkney.

PA: Mr. Currie, you've held onto this bottle without opening it or drinking a sip for 33 years. What made you decide to auction it off now?

GEORGE CURRIE: I've had it for such a long time, and I've got four sons, five grandchildren, so there's only [inaudible] each of them so it's not worth keeping.

PA: Take me back to when you first found this thing. What made you decide to go diving for whiskey on the SS Politician in the first place?

GC: We did a lot of diving on the west coast, lay in power cables where the ship went down and we had a pilot onboard the boat when we were in the pub the night before talking about it. And he says, Oh I'll show you where it is tomorrow.

PA: Oh wow.

GC: So when we finished the job, he says, I'll take you to where it is. And it wasn't very far from the cable. So we've got in the Zodiac and we went. Less than 10 minutes down we had.

PA: You're kidding. It was that easy? It was just right there, right where he said it would be?

GC: It was low tide. And the water was crystal clear. And then we went down and yeah, isn't this fantastic?

PA: And then did you have to dig around inside or along the sides? Where did you actually find the bottles?

GC: We first came around to this big area and found the old tires, knives, telephones, just general cargo. It was all pretty broken up and smashed up. And then nothing in that area. Then I went into the next fold and I looked down and there were loads and loads of broken glass lining the surface of the sand. And Brian came behind and he's seen the necks of the bottles sticking out. We came up with five bottles then.

PA: Wow.

GC: There was some excitement, I can tell you. It was like winning the lottery -- it was like gold.

PA: So now you have these bottles in hand. You get back onto the boat. You go into town. You must have become like an absolute local celebrity at that point.

GC: Oh, yes. We are in the pub and it's a brilliant night.

PA: [Laughs] I bet.

GC: It's a great feeling, fantastic feeling. It had been on my bucket list for years. And we got the chance to do it, and had the right guy with us. Right tide. Right visibility. Just everything was just with us. Good luck.

PA: So this is 1987, you find it?

GC: Yeah.

PA: You have a big night in the pub. Explain something to me if you could, 1941 -- the politician runs aground, there is, what, 260-some-thousand bottles of whiskey on it. I've read that the British government detonated it, blew it up. Why did that happen?

GC: Well, the whiskey was going to Jamaica and New Orleans. So there was a customs chap there who took it past that they were cheating the government by not paying any duty.

PA: Because they had not paid duty because it was only going to Jamaica and New Orleans, it wasn't a local thing. And so the local duty guy was upset that he had not got his peace and he made them blow it up?

GC: Well, he created quite the farce and got the police, they raided a lot of the houses, but the police were drinking the whiskey as well. They certainly warned them that they'll come in and find one bottle. But they were finding bottles in pig barns and rabbit holes years after because people forgot they had that.

PA: These are people that have gone out to the wreck and I guess looted it. But let's call it 'salvaged' a bunch of bottles. And then they just hid them all over the place so this local customs guy wouldn't get them?

GC: Yeah. And then the customs guy made such a fuss that some of the guys got taken to court and they got fined five shillings. So then he created a bigger sting and he got the government to give him permission to come and blast the wrecks that they couldn't get the whiskey of. And so when we dived, we found all this broken glass everywhere. Everything was just smashed up and nothing was left of the wreck -- they did a good job.

PA: Yeah, I guess customs people are pretty good at shutting things down when people are getting free whiskey. Listen, this story has become legend Compton Mackenzie wrote the novel Whiskey Galore -- that was, I think, 1947. It's been made into a movie in 1949, again in 2016. What is it about this story that just seems to continue to capture people's imaginations all these, what, 80 years later?

GC: It's beating the system, isn't it? Everybody would like to beat the system and get something for nothing. And it is a game, isn't it? It is a game: can we get it for nothing and not get caught?

PA: And your part of it all began with some guy in a pub saying, oh, I know where it is, I'll show you where it is.

GC: Yeah, that was it. And this guy, his grandfather was there. And his statement as "Dynamite and whiskey, that's a bad mix." [Laughter]

PA: All right. Before I let you go, I have to ask, how much do you think this is going to fetch at auction?

GC: I'm looking for 9000. There's a good study. It's a part of history. And I don't believe anybody else have got a small collection like what I'm putting up.

PA: Well, it's just such a wonderful tale. Mr. Currie thank you so much for speaking with us today.

GC: Okay then. Thank you very much. Take care everybody. Bye.

PA: George Currie is the man who found and is now auctioning off a bottle of whiskey that sank with the SS Politician in 1941. We reached him in Orkney. The auction is set for September 4th, by the way. And for more on the story, you can visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Expensive mask

AH: If you've got it, flaunt it. Just don't floud it, at least not when it comes to mask wearing protocols. And to that end, a very very wealthy businessman has placed an order for a custom face mask. His brief was simple, it must use N99 filters and it must be the most expensive mask ever made. Once it's done, the mask will sport more than 3,000 diamonds, plus a whole whack of white gold. And it will be worth roughly two million dollars Canadian. The buyer has asked to remain anonymous, and that suggests he may not have fully thought this through because while the mask will cover a good chunk of his face, a glittery mask is not going to help him keep a low profile. The project is keeping the jeweler in business, which is keeping at least 25 employees in jobs. But just try not to think about how many masks 2-million dollars could buy for health care workers or children heading back to school. Really try not to think about that.

[Music]

Part 2: Red Lake Fire

Red Lake Fire

Guest: Akila Whiley

AH: Today, residents of Red Lake, Ontario continue to leave town as a forest fire looms just outside the township. The fire, which began Monday, has grown to 750 hectares and is currently just three kilometres south of the town. The northwestern Ontario community is under a state of emergency and an evacuation order, with hundreds of residents heading south to Dryden, Thunder Bay, and other communities. But while most are leaving, others are holding their ground despite the risks. Dr. Akila Whiley works in the E.R. at the Red Lake Margaret Cochenour Memorial Hospital, which is where we reached her.

PA: Dr. Whiley can you describe the scene in Red Lake right now?

AKILA WHILEY: I think the most of the people that are left are involved in keeping the fire at bay and to care for those that are working on the fire. So it's quite quiet now, a bit eerie, to be honest.

PA: Right. Especially after the last, what, 24-36 hours?

AW: Certainly yeah. There was kind of this mass exodus within a few hours. We had all the patients safely shipped to the hospital within about eight hours. And many many residents, upwards of a thousand people left via the Highway 105 overnight. And then gradually, people have trickled out in various directions. But it's very quiet here now.

PA: And from where you were, have you been able to see the smoke or the fire or the firefighting going on?

AW: Yeah, absolutely. Very well, actually. I'm sitting near the helipad here in the hospital. So we've had everything from being able to see the helicopters, the water bombers. And this morning, it was very smoky. We couldn't see anything at all. The smoke is no longer here in the town. So we can see a lot better. It's just a bit hazy now.

PA: Must have been scary.

AW: Yeah, it was really scary and happened quite quickly. I think, you know, this town is so special and very community oriented, lots of support of one another. And so I think that always makes a scary situation feel a lot more calm. But when you take a step back, you're kind of anticipating the update from the fire teams. It is really scary. I think we feel very safe in that we have an exit plan. The idea of the fire threatening this very special place is certainly worrisome.

PA: And as you say right now in the town, it's really just the people that are fighting this fire and those like you who are there to support them if they need your help.

AW: Yeah. The municipality is here, the firefighters are here, the OPP is here. Those of us that work in health care, we've agreed to stay at the hospital together just in case we have to move quickly. So we're actually all staying in hospital rooms in hospital beds. It's actually quite comforting, I'd said, like many of us are here alone now -- people's families and pets and friends have all gone. So it's really quite comforting to all be together.

PA: And have you had anyone come in with major injuries from the fire yet?

AW: Nothing major yet. We have injuries that could have been a lot worse, and luckily, were not. But I expect days and days on end that injuries will accumulate, unfortunately. But we're here and we're ready.

PA: Somebody told me before I came in, you've actually just recently moved to Red Lake. Is that right?

AW: Yeah, I actually was here for my training for two months and totally fell in love. So I came back in July and just started. I'm actually from the East Coast, so I'm much less familiar with forest fires, luckily. And so this is very new to me. And I very much rely on my colleagues who have a depth of knowledge in this and have been calm and kind of preface on what to expect and try to handle things. So I feel a lot more confident just having them around.

PA: When you decided to move back in July, did you have any sense that this is something that you might have to...

AW: Not at all. I think, you know, the MNR firebase is really close to where I live, actually, so always thought, you know, potentially having to take care of the firefighters who had been out in the bush and who come back to the base and might end up at the hospital. But never, ever in this proximity. [Sounds in background] I'm sure you can hear. I'm just looking at a water bomber flying very much right across. Yeah. It's overhead right now. Yes. And that goes on all day.

PA: So you're in this town. Almost everybody's gone. You're living in the hospital you're working in. There are water bombers flying overhead. Eerie was a word you used earlier -- how would you describe this? It sounds incredible.

AW: Yeah, it is incredible. It's very surreal. I have a profound appreciation for these people who do this day in and day out. It's very well organized and executed. And I'm just so taken aback by how strong and resilient this community has been and how hard all of the partners have worked.

PA: Absolutely. Now, listen, about the fire -- it does sound like things are a bit calmer today. The winds aren't as bad. You're hoping for wet weather in the next couple of days. Has the MNR or officials at the hospital, has anybody to sort of walk you guys through how quickly things could change if things do get worse?

AW: Yes. They have these phone calls intermittently throughout the day. You know, fires really don't play by any sort of rules and neither does Mother Nature. And so they constantly are talking about ways to get people out safely. So luckily, we're close to a lake. We can leave by water. We can leave by plane. So I don't think our safety is at all in jeopardy. But certainly those conversations are had like several times throughout the day, which is very reassuring.

PA: And you said you have an exit plan, if indeed that comes. Have you thought to yourself at a couple of moments it has been like, you know "I've got to get out of here?"

AW: Yeah. Actually, I myself have not felt that way. That time may come. We are so like relatively early. Sometimes these things hang on for days and weeks even. I have thought about where -- well the team actually have thought about where we might need to be practicing and helping should we need to move closer to an airport or to a different place other than our hospital. And so the team this morning actually was just packing up supplies in the event that we need to eventually take a flight and therefore end up at the arena and needing to treat people in other places within the community.

PA: Well, you're such a good ambassador for the resilience of this community, that city folks like you can learn an awful lot. But mostly just do stay safe and let us know how things develop over the next couple of days.

AW: Thank you so much. I so appreciate it.

PA: Take care.

AW: Take care.

AH: Dr. Akila Whiley is a family physician working in the E.R. at the hospital in Red Lake, Ontario. That is where we reached her.

[Music]

Andrew Scheer

AH: Today was the end of a long journey for Conservative leader Andrew Scheer. It marked what is almost certainly his last day in the House of Commons as opposition leader. And he used this time to point out that while he was there to mark the occasion, the prime minister was not. In December, Mr. Scheer announced that he would be stepping down as leader following the party's defeat in the 2019 election, and after a story broke that he used money from the party's coffers to help pay his children's private school tuition. Today was one of only two sittings in August. But the next one falls after the Conservatives will choose a replacement for Mr. Scheer. Here's the question he asked Minister Bardish Chagger.

SPEAKER: The honourable leader of the opposition.

ANDREW SCHEER: Mr. Speaker, the prime minister has had enough. He's tired of accountability and facing tough questions. He doesn't want to explain why he paid off his friends at We with taxpayers money. He won't tell us about the contract that he gave to the company that employs his top staffer's husband. And he certainly doesn't want to tell us how big of a cheque he cut to the former Liberal MP from Montreal. Now, when the prime minister cancelled parliament in April, May, and June, he replaced it with four sitting days this summer and they could have picked any day they wanted. So can the person auditioning for the role of prime minister today please tell us why the prime minister picked today if he wasn't going to show up?

SPEAKER: The honourable minster.

BARDISH CHAGGER: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would have to say that the work that our government does is very serious work, especially during a pandemic. We know that Canadians are hurting from coast to coast to coast. And right now, more than ever, Canadians need to come together. The member talks about, the interim member of the Conservative Party, talks about the prime minister not showing up. The prime minister was at committee to ensure that answers were given to committee members directly.

SPEAKER: If I can interrupt for a moment, I'm having a hard time hearing the answer. If can juust keep it down, I'd appreciate that please. The honourable minister.

BARDISH CHAGGER: The member asked the prime minister, the prime minister showed up at committee. The first opportunity I had to go to finance committee, I was there. Yesterday I was at ethics to ensure that these questions were answered. We work closely with the public service to ensure that programs and resources are available to Canadians, especially during this...

SPEAKER: The honourable leader of the opposition.

ANDREW SCHEER: Well, Mr. Speaker, it looks like my last question period as leader of the Conservative Party is just like my first: warm, sunny, and the prime minister nowhere to be found.

AH: That was Conservative leader Andrew Scheer speaking today in the House of Commons, likely his last time as leader of the opposition.

[Music]

Edmonton Mask Exemption

Guest: Cherie Klassen

AH: Like most major cities in Canada, people in Edmonton have to wear masks inside public places by law. There are, of course, some exemptions -- for example, for people who have a health condition that stops them from being able to wear one. But Edmonton has gone a step further in the shape of a small orange card. The city has been issuing official mask exemption cards since the weekend. And to get one of these cards, all you have to do is ask. At a time when anti-mask and conspiracy groups are encouraging people to flout mask laws, these cards have some residents worried. Cherie Klassen is the executive director of the Old Strathcona Business Association. We reached her in Edmonton.

PA: Ms. Klassen what concerns you the most about these mask exemption cards?

CHERIE KLASSEN: I think our biggest concern from the businesses perspective is how easily accessible they are and that there seems to be no qualifications or doctor's notes or anything that would actually provide some sort of credibility behind them. And our big concern then is because they're so easily accessible, is that the likelihood of people abusing them who don't actually need them will be accessing them.

PA: Why did the city feel it needed to introduce these things in the first place?

CK: I think that's something we're trying to get some clarity on. Some of the understanding that I've heard is that there were people who were justifiably needing exemptions that felt they weren't being treated fairly at businesses, which is fair. I think that the challenge becomes how easily accessible they make them at recreation centres. And the question we've posed to them is, you know, why didn't you work with people in the health community? Why didn't you work with disability organizations? At least someone who works directly with the communities that support the folks who actually need them to hand them out.

PA: You mentioned recreation centre. Just walk us through how one goes about getting one of these cards. I understand there at several recreation centres throughout the city.

CK: Yeah. My understanding is you simply walk up to a staff member at a city recreation centre, ask for an exemption card, and you can easily get one with no questions asked. So it's 100 percent based on an honour system. I've even heard some reports that they will hand several out to you.

PA: And as of yesterday, the city issued like 3800 of these things. What does that tell you?

CK: Correct. So, I mean, it is a small percentage of our population. But I think if we continue on that trajectory of handing that many out per week, I think that's going to be problematic. And I have already heard from some businesses that they had people be quite aggressive with using these cards and justifying that they need them, which is now creating confrontation with businesses, which is an extra hurdle they certainly don't need right now.

PA: And as you say, this started with people who had legitimate health concerns and were worried and the city was trying to, you know, make this work for them. But with 3800 people, at least so far getting these cards, can we even put a number on how many we think of them actually had valid medical reasons to get them?

CK: Yeah, I think that'll be our question to the city is, you know, what is a reasonable number? I've heard some numbers of, you know, five percent of our population, which would be 50,000 people. What we need clarity from the city on is: what's a reasonable amount? Are we going to continue to make them this easily accessible? And then our biggest concern is: what do we tell our businesses and how to respond to them? Because at the end of the day, you know, we have to also support our businesses' right, to choose and support our businesses' staff's safety and health, as well as what other patrons are. What does it do to an environment of a restaurant when the majority of people that are wearing masks and then this, you know, two or three people are not? What does that say to the other patrons and their safety and their health if we start to have abuse of this?

PA: And you say you're already hearing from businesses. What does it do to the environment in a store or a shop or a restaurant when somebody flashes one of these cards and says, nope I don't have to?

CK: Yeah. And I think every individual business is going to have to handle it differently. For many businesses, they've talked to lawyers about what they're legally allowed to do and not allowed to do from a human rights perspective. Most businesses, my understanding, who are choosing to stay with their policies internally of having a mask only policy upon entrance, are offering customers a different way. So they're happy to still serve them. You know, whether it would be take out or online ordering, they just won't allow someone to physically come into their business and serve them if they're not wearing a mask.

PA: The city itself has said that, you know, business owners are not responsible for the enforcement of the bylaw, but we're encouraging businesses to not refuse service to those who are not wearing a mask and indicate to have an exemption. That's a tough line to follow.

CK: It is. And as I said, you know, when the bylaw first came out, many businesses were relieved because it felt it took the pressure off of them. Having to mandate it in their own business, made it more publicly normal to wear a mask. We've seen huge increase in compliance, which is positive. We're just hoping that's not all for naught. And we're going to start to go back in the other direction.

PA: You also have to think about frontline retail workers that are out there putting themselves at risk every day to make sure that the stuff we need is available. What do we saying to them by saying, listen, some people with a simple request can be exempt from wearing a mask?

CK: Yeah, well, we would absolutely stand up for everyone's right to choose and support those exemptions. We also have to support our businesses' safety and the staff safety who are putting themselves at risk, who are obviously dealing with people who are, you know, a little more tense than usual. So they're already dealing with a very challenging environment. And now they have one more added challenging environment where, you know, business owners and managers have to keep their staff safe and healthy so they can survive. And that's what it comes down to. The public's safety is also in line with businesses safety and health and well-being. Those two things go very much hand in hand. And this just complicates all of that.

PA: So what would you like to see the city do now?

CK: You know, I think that's a tough question. I've put a letter into city council, talked to a few city councillors and staff. We'd like to have some direction in terms of what our businesses are supposed to do now that this has been added in. What is our guidance to support them? Ideally, it would be great if maybe they put a few more qualifications around the card in some capacity and didn't make them so easily accessible. I think it's going to be tough to go back now that they've launched this. So those are all my questions I have to the city on what is our way forward and how can you support our businesses?

PA: And have you heard from anyone from the city in official capacity yet to say, listen, we get it, we're trying to figure out -- like anything from them?

CK: You know, I've spoken to a city councillor that they're going to be discussing it at an emergency advisory committee meeting tomorrow and have assured me that we will have some sort of answer. They have acknowledged that this probably does need some tweaking. So it's hopeful that we may get some assurances. And I definitely plan to follow up to ensure that I get that clarity.

PA: Well, keep us in that loop too. We want to know where this goes. Thank you so much for sharing this with us today.

CK: Thank you.

AH: Cherie Klassen is the executive director of the Old Strathcona Business Association. We reached her in Edmonton. We asked the city of Edmonton why they aren't requiring residents to show any proof to get an exemption card -- a spokesperson for the city said the following, "We believe that asking questions about individual's health status was not appropriate and we would not have any way to evaluate that status if we required proof, such as a doctor's note. Additionally, requiring people to get proof of a health or medical condition puts an unnecessary burden on the health care system."

[Music]

Last Blockbuster

AH: The glow of blue and yellow neon lights. The smell of stale popcorn and VHS tapes. The teenage cashier with one hand on the register and one hand on a can of Mountain Dew. It's probably been years since you've stepped inside a Blockbuster unless you live in Bend, Oregon. The town is home to the last Blockbuster store in the world, and now manager Sandy Harding is asking the town to make themselves at home inside the store. For the price of a video rental, they're offering an all-nighter, all access stay on AirBnB with, quote, "a pullout couch, beanbags and pillows for you to cozy up with new releases from the 90s." In 2017, guest host Laura Lynch spoke with Ms. Harding about her store.

LL: Now for anybody who has nostalgic memories of visiting a blockbuster, is there anything different about your store?

SH: No, we still operate the same computer system we have the entire time. It's still in 1990s. It still has floppy disks. We still are blue and yellow, we still have the same Blockbuster signs out front. You know, kids still wear blue and yellow t-shirts and we have the Blockbuster nametags that are the ticket — and, you know, nothing's changed. You come in here and it still looks like a Blockbuster store of the 90s.

LL: How can you still use floppy disks and computers that old?

SH: Well, you know, at the time when Dish Network closed the stores we weren't really sure what the status of the stores was going to be, and so it became a cost issue. And so we ended up kind of maintaining those old computer systems simply because we couldn't afford at the time to change to the new ones, to a new system and we weren't sure exactly what our future was going to hold. And then after a while it became a nostalgia thing. I mean, it's a conversation piece, when people come in and see IBM on the computers, it definitely is.

LL: So you say that computers are a conversation piece, the whole store is a conversation piece. Do people come by just to take pictures?

SH: Oh, absolutely. And, you know, this was happening prior to Thursday when Alaska announced that they were closing. We would still have people lined up wanting to take pictures in front of the store and just because we're in Bend and Bend is a tourist town. And so we have people traveling in all the time and see that we're still open and they're like ‘Oh, my gosh, there’s a Blockbuster store.’ And they come in and the first question is ‘How are you still here? Why are you still here? How could you possibly be operating?’ So it is definitely a conversation piece with every customer that walks in the door.

LL: Can you tell me if you know anything about this rumour that I've heard that your owner might turn the Bend’s Blockbuster into a museum if the business doesn't work?

SH: You know, what is so funny is that we've actually had customers calling and telling us that and it's it's just funny because he knew that I had told him that customers were calling to say, ‘Hey, if you ever close the store make sure to turn into a museum.’ And so he had made a comment about that, you know, if the day ever does come that we have to close maybe we'll do that. And I think that's where the rumor started from. I don't think that that's our endgame, our endgame is to stay open as long as we possibly can, but who knows what could possibly happen.

AH: From our archives, that was guest host Laura Lynch speaking with Sandy Harding about managing the world's last Blockbuster store.

[Music]

Green Eggs and Ham

AH: As very few good things do it started with a wager. An editor at Random House bet one of his authors that he couldn't write a children's book that was smart and entertaining, using only 50 words. I mean, it's a bet that if you think about it, the editor really couldn't lose. The day resulted in a work of children's literature that still etching those 50 words deep in the minds of readers 50 years later. Words such as box, train, fox, and rain, and of course, green eggs and ham. Dr. Seuss's Green Eggs and Ham turns 50 today. Despite its uncritical delight and the questionable art of relentless badgering, the book has sold many millions of copies, making it the most popular of Dr. Seuss's many books. But before any of that, it earned Theodore Seuss Geisel 50 bucks in winnings. From our archives, here's former As It Happens, co-host Alan Maitland with his reading of Green Eggs and Ham.

ALAN MAITLAND: COULD YOU, WOULD YOU, WITH A GOAT?

I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT WITH A GOAT!

WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, ON A BOAT?

I COULD NOT, WOULD NOT, ON A BOAT.

I WILL NOT, WILL NOT, WITH A GOAT.

I WILL NOT EAT THEM IN THE RAIN.

NOT IN THE DARK! NOT IN A TREE!

NOT IN A CAR! YOU LET ME BE!

I DO NOT LIKE THEM IN A BOX.

I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A FOX.

I WILL NOT EAT THEM IN A HOUSE.

I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A MOUSE.

I DO NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.

I DO NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE!

I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM!

I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.

YOU DO NOT LIKE THEM. SO YOU SAY.

TRY THEM! TRY THEM! AND YOU MAY.

TRY THEM AND YOU MAY, I SAY.

SAM! IF YOU LET ME BE,

I WILL TRY THEM. YOU WILL SEE.

SAY! I LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM!

I DO! I LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM!

AND I WOULD EAT THEM IN A BOAT.

AND I WOULD EAT THEM WITH A GOAT...

AND I WILL EAT THEM, IN THE RAIN.

AND IN THE DARK. AND ON A TRAIN.

AND IN A CAR. AND IN A TREE.

THEY ARE SO GOOD, SO GOOD, YOU SEE!

SO I WILL EAT THEM IN A BOX.

AND I WILL EAT THEM WITH A FOX.

AND I WILL EAT THEM IN A HOUSE.

AND I WILL EAT THEM WITH A MOUSE.

AND I WILL EAT THEM HERE AND THERE.

SAY! I WILL EAT THEM ANYWHERE!

AH: From our archives, Alan Maitland reading Green Eggs and Ham. And that book was published 50 years ago today.

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August 12, 2020 Episode Transcript

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