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The AIH Transcript for July 21, 2020

Hosts: Duncan McCue and Chris Howden

Prologue

DUNCAN MCCUE: Hi, I'm Duncan McCue, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

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CH: Tonight:

DM: Missing and dearly missed. After her father disappeared in Mexico more than a year and a half ago, a Canadian woman found clues pointing to a suspect. But no arrests were made until she helped make it happen.

CH: Bursting their bubbles. The head of one Ontario school board tells us the idea of a hybrid back-to-school model will cause a cascade of problems. She says it's an option that needs to be axed.

DM: Tactical maneuvers. U.S. President Donald Trump threatens to send federal agents into more American cities he says are out of control. We reach a Democrat in Congress who says it's the agents that need reigning in.

CH: Order in the court. The ousted president of Sudan stood trial today for his 1989 coup against a democratically elected government. Now he faces the death penalty.

DM: Skin in the game. A medical student tries to correct the dearth of clinical knowledge about how symptoms play out on black and brown skin. And he's confident a handbook he's made can save lives.

CH: And to the butter end. The Minnesota State Fair is cancelled, but its annual butter sculpting event is going online, which means one local butter artist will be spreading himself thin. As It Happens. The Tuesday Edition. Radio that hopes he's got it down pat.

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Part 1: Canadian woman's investigation into father's disappearance in Mexico leads to arrest

Mexico arrest update

Guest: Brooke Mullins

CH: Brooke Mullins is relieved that someone has been arrested in her father's disappearance in Mexico. But the Ontario woman wonders why it took so long. Ms. Mullins is the daughter of Malcolm Madsen, a 68 year old Canadian snowbird who went missing in Mexico in 2018. Angered by a lack of urgency from Mexican authorities, Ms. Mullins took the investigation into her own hands. In December 2019, she told As It Happens about the surveillance video she'd obtained from a bar in Mexico showing her father's girlfriend sprinkling powder into his drink. It was the last night he was seen alive. That girlfriend, Marcela Acosta Ramos, was arrested last week by Mexican police. We reached Brooke Mullins in Port Hope, Ontario.

DM: Ms. Mullins, what was it like for you when you got that news last week that your father's girlfriend had been arrested in Mexico?

BROOKE MULLINS: It was definitely overwhelming. We've been really working towards that point, not just for almost a year and a half, but in the weeks leading up to it. So I was getting updates from like mid-morning. And when my lawyer finally called and confirmed that she was indeed arrested, there were tears of joy for sure.

DM: Marcela Acosta Ramos was arrested just north of Mexico City. What do you know about how that arrest finally happened?

BM: Well, I know a lot because it was orchestrated by myself and my legal team. We used a private investigator. We had local sources that also were very helpful. And we just worked, worked, worked until the point we could have a local police there go in and get her at the house we knew she was living at. I believe two officers went and arrested her and brought her into the station there from which she was then flown to Guadalajara. And then from there, she was flown back to Puerto Vallarta where she's being held.

DM: You have made multiple trips to Mexico trying to find out what happened. If it wasn't for all the work that you and your lawyer did on this, do you think this arrest would have happened at all?

BM: I definitely do not think it would. We have been given a lot of excuses from the D.A.'s office in Puerto Vallarta. We were told that they did not want to make an arrest unless they could arrest all three of them at the same time. And nobody has ever heard of that. I would not be where I am today if I had stuck with a Mexican legal team fully. I needed to step outside and hire someone from outside of Mexico as well.

DM: And you ended up obtaining evidence yourself, didn't you?

BM: Yeah, I found the video of her, of Marcela, drugging my father in the bar to start with, yes.

DM: Last December, you told us about some of that surveillance footage, shocking surveillance footage, that you handed over to Mexican authorities. Can you just remind our listeners what happened in that footage?

BM: So in the footage, my father and his girlfriend, Marcela, are sitting at a table in a very popular bar in Puerto Vallarta. At one point, she distracts my father and then slips a powdery substance into his drink and stirs it. Earlier in this in the video, you could see her like doing something under the table, trying to, I guess, get the package open so that she could obtain the powder to put into his drink. She allows him to have a couple of sips of the drink. She then gets paper cups to transport the drink, takes it outside because we are now at a different video camera that's showing us this. She puts her drink down, but she holds his drink and they get into a cabin. And we've never seen him since.

DM: You also came up with suspicious G.P.S. data of your father's car the night of his disappearance. You handed that data and the surveillance footage over to authorities, Mexican authorities. So why do you think it's taken so long for them to make an arrest?

BM: I don't know. I don't feel that they've done their job at all. I honestly don't feel Canada or Mexico has been much help in my father's case.

DM: How would you characterize the investigation by Mexican authorities?

BM: Depends on what day you're asking me. At this point, negligent, to say the least.

DM: And what about Canada's support of you?

BM: I have felt absolutely very very little support from Canada. I believe I have one local MP that has taken an interest and one contact at Global Affairs that seems to care because our relationship has just grown over the year and a half that we've been working together. I even had opportunity to shake Trudeau's hand once, and I tried to bring up my dad's story and I didn't get the opportunity. I just don't feel like Canada does anything for the many many missing people they have in other countries, especially Mexico.

DM: Ms. Ramos is now charged with disappearance, which is part of Mexico's laws on forced disappearances when the fate of a missing person is unknown. How much faith do you have in Mexico's justice system from here on?

BM: This is the tricky part. We have to be very careful. It's very common I've learned that you may be arrested and then you get released or manage to escape while being transferred to somewhere else. So bribery and all types of things I've been made aware of. So it's very important that we keep her there and that we find the other two people, her son and her brother, who are also responsible.

DM: Do you have other questions that you want to see answered?

BM: Of course, I will always want to know what exactly happened to my father and whether or not he suffered.

DM: How hopeful are you about getting those answers through this justice system?

BM: I believe I will. I believe I will. I think that you will be surprised the more and more that will come out of this story by the end of it. I think I will learn and I think I will be able even maybe to bring some remains home of my father to give him a proper burial back in Canada.

DM: Brooke you've put a lot of your own money into this. I can hear it in your voice. You've put so much emotional energy into this. What keeps you going?

BM: Well, I mean, I think the last time I spoke, I mentioned, I don't want my father's debt to be in vain. I want this to maybe make a change in the way Canada deals with tourists overseas and the way Mexico deals with us as well as their own people. I have had so many people reach out to me that are in the same situation as me that have a missing loved one. It happens weekly. And I just feel like I got this far and I kind of owe it to not only my father and my family, but I owe it to the rest of the people that have not gotten this far to see it through, and maybe my team will be able to make some sort of change.

DM: Thank you for telling us about this case, about your dad again.

BM: My pleasure. Thank you for your time.

CH: Brooke Mullins' father has been missing in Mexico since October 2018. Last week, his girlfriend was arrested and charged in Mexico in connection with his disappearance. We reached Ms. Mullins in Port Hope, Ontario. We reached out to authorities in Mexico for comment on this story, but did not hear back before airtime. You can find Global Affairs Canada's full statement and more details on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

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Democrats Trump legislation

Guest: Eleanor Holmes Norton

CH: Portland may be just the beginning. Federal agents in the Oregon City are reported to have snatched protesters off the streets and taken them away in unmarked vans. We heard from one of those protesters last night. Now, U.S. President Donald Trump says he's sending 150 federal agents to Chicago. And he mused that New York, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore, and Oakland may be next. He's made it clear the move is political. He says those cities are out of control because they are run by Democrats. Democratic Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton represents the District of Columbia. We reached her in Washington, D.C..

DM: Congresswoman Holmes Norton, President Trump says he needs to act because America's cities are out of control. What do you say to that?

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON: What I say to that is that the president is trying to do to rest of the country what he did to the nation's capital that I represent, when he marched through peaceful demonstrators to St. John's Church and almost started a riot. Things were going quite well until he did that, bringing with him apparently federal agents, likely federal police, who did not have any identification. It looks like the same thing is being repeated in Portland. Essentially, what you have is police sometimes with no experience in cities or most of the time with no experience in cities, the way city police and National Guard have -- storming in to try to quell disturbances in Portland, they are saying exactly what we said here in the District of Columbia, we know how to handle disturbances.

DM: But to be clear, I mean by law, federal agents are allowed to operate in cities to protect federal buildings, to enforce federal laws. So what are the specific concerns?

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON: The operative words are federal buildings. Now, if these officers were standing out in front of federal buildings, you and I would not be having a conversation. These officers are ranging across cities like Portland, they did so in the District of Columbia -- way outside of their jurisdiction, way outside of protecting federal facilities, which is, of course, their mandate.

DM: Are there are other concerns that you have other than them being outside of their jurisdiction about the way that they've been acting in Portland?

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON: Of course there are other concerns. The concerns are that they're acting essentially the way authoritarian governments do. Why don't they have markings? Our D.C. police wear badges. You know who they are. When you have unmarked authorities, you are acting in the tradition of authoritarian governments, not the United States of America.

DM: So specifically, what kind of changes would you like to see in the legislation that you and other Democrats are proposing?

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON: Legislation to make sure that federal police always identify themselves with markings that indicate who they are indeed. I've got another one that says both federal and local police, in case there's some local police that don't do what our local police do, that if you're handling demonstrations in a democratic country, we've got to know that you have the authority to do so. And the way we know that is that you identify who you are.

DM: As I mentioned, President Trump has characterized this as cities being out of control. He seems to be framing it as an election issue. I'll quote you something he said, "If Biden got in, that would be true for the country. The whole country would go to hell and we're not going to let it go to hell." Do you think his message, that message, will resonate with some voters?

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON: What we're seeing now is the president's search for some issue that can do something to help his poll numbers. He's had four or five issues that have had no effect -- in fact, seen them go down. So this is the latest iteration that let's try law and order. So far, they're not working. The only way he can revive his numbers is to, in fact, do what Europe has done, what has happened in other countries, and that is to take the requisite action to bring down these soaring numbers of coronavirus.

DM: The protests that prompted this action they've been largely peaceful, but there has been property damage, there has been cars set on fire, shops vandalized. There's been looting. What kind of message would you have for Americans who are concerned that this is a problem that needs to be addressed?

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON: Yes, it is true that these protests have not been 100 percent peaceful, but they have been largely peaceful. And what the local authorities are saying is that they are fully able, with their own National Guard and with their own local police, to bring these matters under control. And there's been no showing that they can't. It's not that there haven't been instances of some looting and some getting out of control, mostly at night. But their message is we are fully able to do this and nothing has been demonstrated to show that they aren't.

DM: So now there's a situation where there are mayors objecting, there are governors objecting, there are vows of lawsuits. In the meantime, while all this plays out, do you think that there are going to be more federal agents on the streets of more cities?

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON: The reason that we are interested in Portland, for example, is I think there is concern in cities throughout the United States that what we saw first in the nation's capital, now we see in another city, a city that does have control of its own National Guard, as the District did not. And I think there is concern that we could see the administration to help raise his poll numbers -- I think we could see use of federal agents in other cities as well. So first we saw in the nation's capital. Now we're seeing in Portland and you could see attempts elsewhere.

DM: We'll leave it there. Thank you very much for your time.

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON: Good to talk with you.

CH: Democratic Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton represents the District of Columbia. She was in Washington, D.C.. This afternoon, Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf acknowledged there had been 43 federal arrests in Portland this month, but denied any had been made by officers wearing no identification.

[Music]

Blackest fish

Guest: Malone Mukwende

CH: It's what's inside that counts, but when it comes to health and medicine, your outside can say a lot about what's going on inside. That's why physicians pay attention to the ways that illnesses affect a patient's skin. But according to Malone Mukwende we may be missing a big part of the picture. Specifically, how illnesses affect patients who aren't white. Mr. Mukwende is a second year med student at St. George's University of London. He's just created a new guidebook to help doctors identify clinical signs on black and brown skin. We reached Malone Mukwende in Birmingham, England.

DM: Mr. Mukwende, why is a handbook like this necessary?

MALONE MUKWENDE: So a handbook like this is necessary because at the moment in medical education in the U.K. and also around the world, we are often not taught how to identify signs and symptoms in darker skin. So this handbook will give us access that bridge to fill in the gap in our education at the moment.

DM: The handbook is called Mind the Gap, which is a cheeky reference to the warning message on the London tube. You're a second year medical student. When did it become clear to you that some of your peers, health care professionals, held white skin biases?

MM: So I think it became apparent to me long before medical school, because I'd heard of instances and stories within members of my own community and the black community about being misdiagnosed or not being taken seriously by health care professionals or just mistreatment, really. And I could see the distrust that they had with the health care professionals. And then when I got to university, at medical school, it almost became apparent to me, the other side of the fence, that maybe this distrust and this misdiagnosis, maybe it started from just people not being taught it. So they kind of allow these biases to manifest and when they qualify and become practicing healthcare practitioners, that's where these biases are now having fatal consequences on people.

DM: You made some observations about how different conditions were impacting people with different skin colours. And you brought that to your tutors and your professors, what were their reactions?

MM: So the tutors and professors who I worked with on Mind the Gap, they really helped out and we all had a common goal in mind. The other members of staff at different institutions and just from speaking to people kind of to research in the early stages, some people sometimes say stuff like, oh, that's common sense -- you will pick you up and practice. Which to me was very problematic. And I knew that we shouldn't be leaving this to be something that you pick up in practice, but something that we addressed at a very early stage.

DM: Can you give us some examples of how an illness or an injury might look different on different types of colours of skin?

MM: So, for instance, we saw with COVID-19 -- there was a picture of Kawasaki disease, which was circulating on the Internet. In the picture, it's clear to see that on white skin Kawasaki, it'll appear very red and very bright red. However, on dark skin, some people would even argue it looks like goosebumps. So these conditions are both the same. But if both of those patients are presented to a hospital, we can't almost tell that if there was not this knowledge, who would be getting sent home and who would be receiving treatment.

DM: So what would it mean then if a doctor or a patient misses that?

MM: So consequently, it can mean that someone will end up dying because of that. But at the same time, that's where those elements of distrust also start creeping in, because if you send someone home who has a severe illness like that and then they end up having complications in the future, I'm very sure that they won't be happy that it was missed at that early stage.

DM: I understand that skin cancer can also look different for Black people.

MM: Yes. So it's even almost a taboo, which is in the Black community in the UK that some people believe that Black people cannot get skin cancer and that's due to the melanin on our skin, providing a barrier, which is true to an extent. However, it's found that skin cancer in Black people is often diagnosed at terminal stage because people and healthcare professionals and patients in general often miss the early signs just due to the lack of education and the lack of knowledge surrounding this topic.

DM: So your book is going to have images of how conditions present themselves on skin colours of different types. It's being talked about around the world -- your guide book. Why do you think it's taken so long to draw attention to this issue?

MM: The conversation has been going on for many years. And I feel like for me to take the credit to say I'm the first person to do it would be doing a disservice to all the people who have spoken up about in the past. I think the difference is often the people in the past, when they were speaking, they were getting their issues swept under the rug and people weren't taking these issues seriously or not giving them the correct airtime that they needed, unlike now. I feel like the world -- given the years that we've had in 2020 -- is kind of receptive and open to acknowledging some of the cracks down there in the system. And now that people are aware that these problems exist, I think it's imperative that we start acting now to change the future so that the future can be even better.

DM: What kind of difference do you think it's going to make to have this guidebook available with this information for patients?

MM: Fundamentally, I think it will allow some people to live longer, essentially, because they will be able to be diagnosed correctly in the first place. Stuff like complications from diseases, hopefully a few of those was thought to decrease because if people are able to get diagnosed correctly at the first instance, it will have a lot of positive effects on the patient. And this can also go back to increasing their trust in health care professionals, their confidence in the health care professionals too.

DM: And what kind of difference do you think it'll make to medical students like you?

MM: I think it will almost empower students because we as students will now feel more confidence in our own practice. So we're not going out then to the world and being scared that "oh, I'm not sure what it looks like on a darker patient and I do want to make a mistake." So if we are empowered by this, we'll be well-equipped and be able to better serve the diverse population of people that are in the world.

DM: Thank you for telling us about your guidebook.

MM: No worries. Thank you.

CH: Malone Mukwende is a medical student at St. George's University of London. He's just created a new guidebook to help doctors identify clinical signs on black and brown skin. He's in Birmingham, England.

[Music]

Butter sculpture

CH: Maybe it's a dream come true. Maybe it's a nightmare. But Gerry Kulzer is headed to the big leagues much earlier than he thought. Because this year he's the chosen one. He and only he can sculpt the heads of ten would be dairy princesses out of butter. Like most things people enjoy this year's Minnesota State Fair is cancelled. No midway, no petting zoo, no weird deep fried foods on a stick. But fair fans can still stick together by watching the one event that isn't cancelled. The sculpting of the likeness of Princess Kay of the Milky Way out of Grade A salted butter -- as tradition dictates. Every year a new Princess Kay is named to act as an ambassador for Minnesota's dairy industry. And every year for the past forty eight years, only one woman has butter sculpted Princess Kay: Linda Christensen. But she is stuck in California because of the pandemic. So in 2020, it's up to her apprentice Minnesota artist Gerry Kulzer. On August 13th, Mr. Kulzer will enter a refrigerated booth set to three degrees Celsius, which is 38 degrees Fahrenheit, and over six to eight hours while thousands watch over a Facebook live stream, he will sculpt the head of this year's Princess Kay of the Milky Way. And then over the following nine days, Mr. Kulzer will also sculpt the heads of all nine of the other finalists for the crown. It's a little scary, he told The New York Times. But I'm sure everything will churn out for the best. And if not, well, butter luck next time.

[Music]

Part 2: Halton school board

Halton school board

Guest: Andrea Grebenc

CH: It is the middle of summer. But for everyone who works inside schools, September feels uncomfortably soon. Ontario's provincial education minister has told boards to prepare for three potential scenarios this fall. One where kids learn virtually. Another where they return to classrooms full time. And a final hybrid option that would involve a mix of the first two. Most school boards are busy hashing out plans. But one has already given the Ontario government's hybrid option a failing grade. The Halton District School Board has written to the province, asking it to ax that model, citing concerns around safety and childcare. Andrea Grebenc is the chair of the Halton District School Board, which serves Oakville, Burlington, Milton, and Halton Hills. We reached her in Burlington, Ontario.

DM: Ms. Grebenc you and your colleagues have written to Ontario's Education Minister, Stephen Lecce, asking him to withdraw this hybrid or mixed education model. Can you describe that model for us?

ANDREA GREBENC: Sure. The model has students attending school half time. So you may have students attending two days, one week and three days the next. Or you may see one week in school and then the next week they would be out. There may be other models out there like half day. But that's how the model works. And we're concerned specifically about the kindergarten to grade six age group using this model.

DM: What are your concerns?

AG: Well, that age group heavily relies on child care. You can't leave an eight year old at home alone all day on those days that they're out of school. So parents will need to find childcare, which will be difficult because it's a completely new market. The kindergarten to grade six children that I'm speaking about would be students that would normally be in school every day. So this market would have to appear suddenly. And there's a lot of concern around that. Personally, I can see a market popping up of people who have become unemployed or underemployed, and they'd be more of a casual neighbourhood kind of situation. And there's no guarantee that those public health protocols, the strict public health protocols, would be followed in those casual kinds of situations. And the other part is that these situations rupture the carefully contained bubbles that our classrooms and our staff will be working really hard to maintain. So children will be in our schools in these bubbles. And then on the out days, they could be at any kind of daycare situation, mixing with students from other classes, other schools, other boards.

DM: So you're concerned about the health risks. But with regard to the child care, I mean, your letter suggests that this is going to particularly disadvantage women. And the Halton Board, as it so happens, is completely composed of women. How is that playing out at home?

AG: Well, the boards of education in Halton Region are the top employers. And our board, especially if you consider elementary teachers, educational assistants, secretarial staff, these positions have a very high demographic of women. And so we could actually see some of our own staff saying, 'hey, I can't find care or I can't afford care. I have to make a choice. I choose my children.' And they're leaving us just when we need them.

DM: This is a tricky balance, though, isn't it? I mean, if you look at the alternatives, the education minister and the premier both would like to see kids returning to the classroom full time, suggesting that would need to have smaller class sizes, about 15 or less. How realistic is that?

AG: For us to run classes at 15 or less in a full time, everyday model, we would need to almost double our teaching staff and find space. And though we have some space in parts of our board, the centre of our board is exploding in population and we are begging for new schools. So there is very little space available.

DM: So you don't have the space or the resources for smaller class sizes, you're saying?

AG: That's right.

DM: What about the other alternative? I mean, what if Ontario students go back to 100 percent online learning all the time like we did in the spring? I mean, what would that mean for students and parents?

AG: Well, I mean, the childcare situation doesn't go away. Though, we are working very hard to train our staff. And teachers are professionals and dedicated to engage and be very effective in the online environment. A lot of it still falls to parents to maintain that educational facilitation for their children.

DM: What, in your view, then, is the middle ground here?

AG: Well, for kindergarten to grade six, I really feel that students need to be in full time and the primary classes have a cap of 20 students. So that's only five more students then the maximum suggested by the ministry right now. So if we could move that number up to 20 students at the primary level, they would fit within the footprint that they currently reside in. And the same number of teachers would need to be used. If we can take that and model that up to the junior grades as well, which is grades four, five and six, that we may need more teachers, but we wouldn't need double teachers.

DM: Is that going to be safer?

AG: If students are going from school to home every day and there may be some before and after care, but often that happens within our schools themselves. We are keeping that bubble more contained. Whereas if you have a model where a student goes to school one day and then all the students disperse into their child care situations the next day and then come back into that bubble the day after, you can see how that ruptures the bubble and actually produces more chances for the virus to spread.

DM: Parents in Ontario, educators in Ontario still don't know what school is going to look like this fall. Are we doing enough to get children back to school and into the classroom safely?

AG: I know our staff is working tirelessly and I think that they are doing a wonderful job. Safety is our number one priority. And I would say that is the case across all boards in Ontario.

DM: Thank you for talking about it today.

AG: Thank you so much Duncan.

CH: Andrea Grebenc is the chair of the Halton District School Board. We reached her in Burlington, Ontario, where she's also a trustee for Wards 3 and 6.

[Music]

We Charity Debate

CH: Here "We" goes again. In a House of Commons committee meeting today Ottawa's top bureaucrat made one thing very clear -- Ian Shugart told MPs there's no doubt that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Finance Minister Bill Morneau were directly involved in the decision to put the We Charity in charge of administering a 900 million dollar volunteer program. Meanwhile, inside the House of Commons, Opposition Leader Andrew Scheer tore into the prime minister for getting too cozy with the charity.

ANDREW SCHEER: This isn't about just a simple recusal, Mr. Speaker. Here we have an organization that has paid cash to the prime minister's family and given him and other senior Liberals a massive political platform. That organization gets in trouble after gobbling up millions of dollars worth of prime Toronto real estate and breaking their bank covenant. They then lobby the government for a tailor made program that they will be able to take an administration fee for managing. The government does them even better, comes up with an even bigger program, gives them a sole source contract. And the prime minister would have us all believe that this is a massive coincidence. Will the prime minister do the right thing, show up and testify at committee?

SPEAKER: The right honourable prime minister.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Mr. Speaker during this unprecedented pandemic we put out billions of dollars to support Canadians, young and old, workers, employers and entrepreneurs to make through this particular challenge that is hitting us all extremely hard. We put forward a nine billion dollar package for students that included deferral of student loans that included direct support through jobs through Canada summer jobs and jobs in COVID-affected sectors. We've continued to look for ways to encourage volunteerism. We will continue to stay focused on the things that matter to students and to all Canadians.

SPEAKER: Honourable leader of the opposition.

ANDREW SCHEER: So gross and disgusting that this prime minister keeps using the pandemic as an excuse for his corruption. The very first act that this prime minister did when the pandemic was tried to give himself unprecedented power and eliminate the role of the opposition in parliament. And now we know why, Mr. Speaker. Because when they're pushing three hundred billion dollars worth of deficit out the door, they will stop and take the time to reward their friends. That is the essence of this Liberal Party under this Liberal prime minister. I don't even have a question, Mr. Speaker. It's just disgusting.

SPEAKER: The right honourable prime minister.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Mr. Speaker, one would think that when House of Commons is about to pass legislation worth over 50 billion dollars to help businesses with an extension of the wage subsidy, that there might be a question from the opposition on that or on anything they want to bring forward. The fact of the matter is we remain focused on giving Canadians the support they need to get through this challenging pandemic. We will look creatively. We will look carefully at different ways of supporting students and elders, and we will keep doing that, Mr. Speaker, for all Canadians.

CH: A heated back and forth during Question Period today featuring opposition leader Andrew Scheer and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

[Music]

Omar al-Bashir trial

Guest: Hamid Mortada

CH: Over 30 years ago, an Army officer by the name of Omar al-Bashir led a coup in Sudan, which overthrew the democratically elected government. After seizing power, he ruled Sudan as a dictator, inciting violence, genocide and crimes against humanity in Darfur. Last year, he was finally ousted by the military after widespread public protests across the country. And today, Omar al-Bashir and his highest ranking officials, went on trial in Khartoum for the coup that began at all in 1989. Hamid Mortada is a civil society activist in Sudan. He was on our program last year during the protests. And we reached him today in Khartoum.

DM: Mr. Mortada, it was way back in 1989 that Omar al-Bashir took over the democratically elected government in Sudan. That was over 30 years ago. Why is this trial important now?

HAMID MORTADA: It is very important because this is a historical moment, an event, for us in Sudan, but also in the region across the Arab world and the region in Africa, because historically a lot of military figures would support political figures, would conduct these coups against democratically elected governments and help them take over power. And then none of them would be held accountable. They would not face courts and so on. So this is a first in Sudan and the first in the region. And it's very important because after so many years of sectarian regimes in Sudan and the region, I think it's about time that no one else thinks about going for coups as an option to take over power.

DM: I mean, there've been three coups in Sudan since Sudan took independence in 1956. So this is the first time someone who's launched a coup has been brought to trial. So what's the mood like in Khartoum today?

HM: So among the pro-democracy crowds and groups in Sudan, they are very enthusiastic. They're very thrilled to see this happening. We did not imagine seeing al-Bashir and his regime being brought to court and particularly for the coup they launched. Also, of course, their supporters and families of the previous regime who were today protesting in front of the court, expressing solidarity with with al-Bashir and those being tried today.

DM: Why is al-Bashir being charged for what most remembers as a bloodless coup? I mean, why not send him to The Hague where he's wanted for war crimes for his role in the killing of hundreds of thousands of people in the conflict in Darfur?

HM: The crimes committed against humanity and the genocide in Darfur are very horrible crimes that that al-Bashir and his regime committed. And it is very important that they get sent to The Hague to have a proper trial there, to be held accountable. However, this case and the fact that they launched this coup and took over power is also very important, not necessarily because of the sentences that they will get, but because of the symbolic meaning of it. And to make sure that this sends a message to whoever might think about going for a coup as an option in the future.

DM: So what happened at the trial today?

HM: So the trial today, it was supposed mainly for hearings and to go through the accusations and the charges. However, after it started, it got postponed to the 11th of August because of the health measures imposed by the court and by the by the health ministry. There were too many lawyers and so many crowds and no one was observing social distancing and no one was following the health measures imposed. So the judges decided to postpone it to the 11th of August so that more measures would be put in place to make sure that people are following.

DM: You mentioned how important this is to so many people in Sudan symbolically. How do you think that the Sudanese courts and the justice system are planning to rule on this trial?

HM: We have to admit that there are a lot of shortcomings within the judicial system in Sudan and courts and so on. And that is a result of 30 years of systematic destruction, of the system. And it was mainly concocted by the previous regime. So that quite a challenge that we all have to admit and have to be mindful of. However, for this case, I think it's not very complicated. It's quite straightforward. And there are very little chances that those involved in the coup can deny that they were part of the coup because it's all documented, everyone knows and so on. But, for example, for cases like the crimes against humanity in Darfur and the war and so on, that would be very challenging for Sudanese courts to lead on these trials. And that's why people have been in favour of sending al-Bashir and the others to The Hague.

DM: And let me ask you about life today in Sudan. Since al-Bashir was ousted there's been a transitional government in place and that government promised to try to balance citizen and military leadership. How has the transitional government kept that promise? Have they?

HM: I would say not fully. They haven't fully kept their promise. There have been progress on many fronts. However, the progress overall, has been very slow. We all appreciate and acknowledge that there are a lot of challenges, institutional challenges for the executive government to perform and also the economy and the peace issues. And there's a pandemic happened. So there are a lot of challenges in front of the government. But despite all of that, they could have done better. I think the divisions and conflicts among the political incubated, the forces of freedom and change has been a factor that affected the performance of the government and responsiveness and rapidness of their actions. However, I think in terms of everyday life basis, the only thing that people are seeing actual progress in is in personal liberties and freedoms. That is what people have seen. But in terms of economy, in terms of livelihoods and so on, there is not much progress in everyday life for people.

DM: Thank you for giving us an update on the trial.

HM: You're very welcome. Thank you. Bye bye.

CH: Hamid Mortada is a civil society activist. We reached him in Khartoum, Sudan. Omar al-Bashir faces the death penalty if convicted for his 1989 coup.

[Music]

John Hastings

CH: When comedian John Hastings stepped onto the America's Got Talent stage for this season's auditions, the forecast was calling for a high chance of crickets because the theater was big and the cameras were rolling, but the seats were empty. Rows and rows of nobody. Just three celebrities at a table there expressly to judge and the crew there expressly to tear down the sets as quickly as possible and get out of there because they were in California in March and they'd all just gotten news that the coronavirus was very real. Enter John Hastings of Ottawa, bravely taking a stab at filling the empty room with laughter.

JOHN HASTINGS: And you've got to do things to stay young. I do things to stay young. I recently borrowed money from my parents. [Small laughter] For those who have never borrowed money from your parents, the crew will know this, the celebrities will not. [Laughter] You have to gather your parents together and go, "Hello, mother. Father, you know how you're supposed to teach me responsibility? Well, you failed. And that comes with a hefty fine." [Laughter]

CH: Pretty sure there was some laugh track sweetening in there, but it did sound like he really had Howie Mandel. John Hastings spoke with the CBC's Ottawa Morning about that surreal experience.

JOHN HASTINGS: I mean, the whole situation with filming that set was bananas. I live in Los Angeles most of the year when I'm not traveling and doing festivals. And it was the day that Gavin Newsom, the governor, back when he was doing a good job with the COVID locked out, you know, before they surged, literally was on the news as I'm sat in the Pasadena Performing Arts Centre. He's other news going "Go home, stay home. This is the end. Kiss your loved ones goodbye. There is no toilet paper. Goodbye, everyone." And I'm sitting there where literally crew members are dismantling the set and a producer is going, "Okay, well, the dog, they're going to do the tumble next with the dog. And then it might be you." And so you're just like, well, this is the most surreal, stupid thing I've ever done in my career already. So let's just see how far down the rabbit hole I could go. So I only got nervous once I walked out on stage and was like, oh when they said there was no audience, they literally meant there's no audience and just the crew and those three people. So it went from I wasn't even thinking about what I was doing to incredibly nerve wracking because I didn't have time to realize, oh, this is going to be on television, they can make me really look like a jerk. It just went from like, well I hope I don't get coronavirus to I hope I don't get coronavirus and I hope I don't get embarrassed on national television.

CH: Ottawa native John Hastings speaking with the CBC's Catherine Cullen yesterday. And as you may have guessed by his chipper tone, he made it through to the next round, which I imagine will be even weirder.

[Music]

Julia Jung and her students

CH: Julia Jung is a high school music teacher who won't let a pandemic derailer, especially when it comes to the things she really likes, like teaching music or the Hamilton rock band "Arkells." Last month, Ms. Jung assembled her students in a virtual ensemble to cover an Arkells song, which Arkells lead singer Max Kerman really liked. And when he found out that she also likes Raptors basketball, he called up a buddy: Raptors head coach, Nick Nurse. The two men surprised Ms. Jung with a 25,000 dollar donation to her Mississauga, Ontario school for new instruments, at which point the teacher and her students probably shared a spit take because they're surprised and happy not to have to share spit valves. Here are Ms. Jung's students at St. Aloysius Gonzaga Secondary with their version of the Arkells' "Years In The Making." [MUSIC: Years In The Making]

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July 21, 2020 Episode Transcript

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