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The AIH Transcript for June 9, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Seizing the moment. Democrats in the United States are proposing a reform package to overhaul policing in America. One congresswoman tells us why she believes the kind of change that was unimaginable a few weeks ago is now within reach.

CO: Thinning blue line. A Minneapolis city councillor explains why she thinks the city's police department doesn't need reform -- it needs to be completely dismantled.

CO: Automatic for the people. Microsoft has plans to replace its human news editors with artificial intelligence. But an inexcusable editorial mistake shows the robots may be human to a fault.

CH: One small step for most people, many many unnecessarily complicated steps for the winners of the Rube Goldberg bar of soap challenge. We'll hear from a Toronto family who cleaned up.

CO: A force still to be reckoned with. Yesterday, we told you about police reform in Camden, New Jersey. Today, we reached a man who says things may be better, but that doesn't mean good.

CH: And blow by blow accounts. Our guests from the archives tonight were masters of whistling, including a 10 month old baby who issued a constant tweet storm and an Edmonton couple who made beautiful mouth music together. As It Happens. The Tuesday Edition. There's nothing this radio can say, it was totally lips of the heart.

[Music]

Part 1: 'We're not abolishing safety': Minneapolis councillor explains plan to dismantle police

Minnesota Police Reforms

Guest: Karen Bass & Alondra Cano

CH: Today in Houston, Texas, George Floyd's family held a final memorial service before he was buried beside his mother. And as they paid tribute to him, they often used his middle name, the one friends and family knew him by "Perry."

BROOKE WILLIAMS: [Soundclip] First off, I want to say Hello, my name is Brooke Williams -- I'm George Floyd's niece. And I can breathe. Long as I'm breathing, justice will be served for Perry. First off, I want to thank all of you for coming out to support George Perry Floyd. My uncle was a father, brother, uncle and a cousin to many, spiritually grounded and activist. He always moved people with his words. The officers showed no remorse while watching my uncle's soul leave his body. He begged and pleaded many times just for you to get up, but you just pushed harder. Why must the system be corrupt and broken? Laws already in place for the African-American system to fail. These laws need to be changed. No more hate crimes. Please! Someone said "Make America Great Again." But when has America ever been great? [Crowd cheers]

CH: George Floyd's niece, Brooke Williams, speaking at his final memorial today. Democrats in Washington also want to change the laws that govern policing. They're putting forward an ambitious reform package, one that would limit legal protections for officers, ban chokeholds and track officers who use excessive force. Karen Bass is a Democrat in the House of Representatives from California. We reached her today in Houston.

CO: Representative Bass, we know that states and municipalities in the U.S. have been addressing police forces and proposing reforms. Why do you think it's necessary that Congress now get involved?

KAREN BASS: Well, I frankly think we should be involved at every level of government. But a lot of times change can start on a federal level and it will help encourage change in the state and the local levels as well.

CO: The representatives who are proposing this say they want to erase decades of systemic racism and excessive policing. So we'd haven't got much time -- I know that's a large ambition -- in a nutshell, can you tell us how you propose to do that with your legislation?

KB: Sure. Well, there's several things that we are proposing to do, which is really lifting and upgrading the standards of policing in the United States. And so just like any other profession, police officers should be accredited. They should have to have continuing education. There should be national standards in policing. And so in one area, it shouldn't be okay to knock at door down just looking for drugs, and in another municipality that might be the practice. So looking at policing and wanting to implement the best standards around the country, looking at best practices, and figuring out where is policing work, where isn't it working? What do we do about this? We believe there are some initial steps that need to be done. Now, we also need to make sure that when there are officers that get in trouble, that they're not allowed to abuse people in one municipality and then go into another municipality. And so having a national registry where a police chief can look and see if somebody has a prior record. There was a child, 12 year old child, that was killed six years ago who would have been celebrating his high school graduation this month, but the police officer that shot and killed him after a 60 second encounter had been fired from a local police department. But he lied on his application. And national registry would take care of that. Those are some examples of the reforms that are in the bill.

CO: What we've heard so much since the death of George Floyd is the militarization of policing in the United States, what they call a warrior culture, and that huge amounts of machinery has been invested in that and training to create that warrior culture. How do you get rid of that?

KB: Well, first of all, having standards for policing is one way. I represent a district in Los Angeles where part of my district is white and very affluent. And the other part of my district is the inner city. The police department, Los Angeles Police Department, governs both areas. And the way they approach those two communities is entirely different. When they're in the white affluent area, they're there to protect and serve. When they're in the inner city area, they're there to knock heads. And so that is a training issue. That is a training issue. That's a standards issue. And so that's what we're calling for in the bill to elevate the standards and to provide police departments with the training that they need to end that type of culture.

CO: But that culture is backed up by powerful police unions in your country who have friends in high places who are resisting these changes and have made it impossible for municipalities to take this on in the past. How do you take on those unions?

KB: They've resisted it in the past. We'll see what happens now. But I think that the thousands, the hundreds of thousands of people that are protesting in every single state and around the world is the type of public pressure that we need to have to pass policies like we're suggesting. And so now you have Senator Mitt Romney, you know, going out and marching with the protesters and saying he's going to look at police reform. I will tell you, six months ago, that would have been unthinkable from my point of view. And so I do think that when you have polls that come out and say that 70 percent of Americans feel that we have a problem, 70 percent of Americans support the protesters, those are things that to me will help move us so that we could get the bill across the finish line.

CO: I know you have just been attending the funeral of George Floyd. You are in Texas for that. What's the sense you get from people that you're with today about their expectations of what you and other politicians should be doing about what they've been talking about these past weeks?

KB: Well, truly, it was a memorial service. It was a funeral. So we weren't engaging in a lot of political discussions. I was there to pay my respects to Mr. Floyd and his family. And so it was a solemn occasion. And it was nice to see so many people who turned out and to learn about him and to learn who he was to the Houston community. People think of him as being Minneapolis, but over this last week we learned that there are three communities that were celebrating his life. Community in North Carolina, in Minnesota, as well as in Texas.

CO: So what were the expectations? What did you feel from people at least if you didn't talk to them, what did you feel?

KB: I felt grief. It was a funeral. So people were grieving. That's what I felt. People were not focused on the policy. So it was a grief stricken congregation that was there. People celebrating his life, but also grieving very much and especially the family. It was an absolute heartbreak to watch that.

CO: And I'm just wondering, as far as being able to do what you're proposing with this legislation, your a presumptive candidate for president Joe Biden says he doesn't believe police should be defunded.

KB: Well, I don't believe that either. But what I do know that the vice president believes in is that there needs to be substantial reforms. I haven't discussed the bill with him, but I'm sure he would support the direction that we're going.

CO: We will leave it there. Representative Bass, thank you.

KB: Thank you.

CH: Karen Bass represents California's 37th District and the U.S. House of Representatives. Today, she was in Houston, Texas, for the final memorial of George Floyd. In Minneapolis, calls to reform the police department have turned into a pledge to dismantle it altogether. This week, nine city councillors said they would vote in favour of eliminating and replacing the MPD. Even though the city's mayor is not on board, the councillors have enough support to push the measure through. What exactly will replace the police is still an open question. Alondra Cano is a Minneapolis city councillor who supports scrapping the department. We reached her in Minneapolis.

CO: Councillor Cano, what convinced you and others that the Minneapolis police department was beyond repair and should be dismantled?

ALONDRA CANO: The events of Monday night as we woke up to a video documenting the murder of a man in the middle of the day who was already handcuffed and an officer being the person who committed the crime. That's the minute I realized that our system was never going to be repairable, that we needed to shift dramatically in the course of public safety because that specific system was not responding to the needs and the outcomes that we had been trying to do through reform.

CO: We know that in Minneapolis, there are have been previous occasions when the excessive use of force by police has been an issue where city council has attempted to change things. But it just doesn't happen. So what is it about this occasion do you think that you actually have the political momentum to make these changes?

AC: I think one thing we saw is that the video documented by residents in the area illustrated that the deep problem that serves as the glue for these systems to not change, to not transform. And so we do have now a super majority on the city council who publicly committed to beginning the process to end our current policing system and to work hand-in-hand with our community, to come up with a new system of redefining and reclaiming public safety, to establish a new future for our city.

CO: It's been criticized. Your declaration and the councillors who voted for this have been accused of just playing with optics, this is just appearances and there's really not that much you can do. What exactly are you proposing to replace your police department with?

AC: We're proposing to put a plan together with our community. So the plan is we come up with a plan together. It won't be a top-down plan. It won't be a plan that we've inherited, such as the current policing system that has been created out of moments of slavery and colonization. We know that our community has a lot of the answers and we've built some of those mechanisms already, whether it's the Office of Violence Prevention, our mental health correspondent program, diverting 911 long calls to other response personnel outside of our armed police officers. All of those things are part of the ecosystem that we know will continue to thrive and grow as soon as we invest more resources into it. So specifically, when nine of us made a commitment to defund the Minneapolis Police Department, we're now in the minutiae of figuring out what that is. And after our mayor gives us an amended budget, we get to decide if we approve it, change it, or reject it altogether.

CO: You mentioned your mayor, who has been a very vocal supporter of the protests, and he has been very critical of the police department. But even he says, dismantling the force in Minneapolis is a bad idea. He's proposing a huge cultural shift in how the department functions, but not a dismantling. What do you say to the mayor?

AC: We need to stop using the word 'reform.' That is a trigger word for our communities that is loaded with trauma and failed attempts at protecting the lives of people of colour and African-American people specifically. This is why so many of us are unflinchingly committed to deconstructing that system altogether and creating a new system from the ground up with our communities, step by step.

CO: But citizens do expect law enforcement. Don't they? I mean, people of colour, black people are also victims of crime. Women in particular are vulnerable. So how do your citizens get law enforcement and protection from crime and at the same time, not being persecuted by police?

AC: Well, the reality is that today the Minneapolis Police Department still has 193-million dollars and they are still sworn officers, 888 of them serving our city. That is a system that is there for people who want to use it. Many of us know that it's going to take time to come up with alternatives. And we are committed to that process because we know that the way this will be different is if that process is intentional and thoughtful. I also want to remind people that our officers are not happy with our current system either. This is both not serving our community and the officers who want to do good, who are stuck in a broken, outdated, racist system that doesn't let them serve with true compassion and transparency.

CO: We've heard from others in interviews that the police use excessive force with impunity because they feel they are protected by their powerful police unions and not all police, of course, but those who do. You have one of the most powerful police unions in the country in Minneapolis, Bob Kroll being the head of it. The man who has appeared on stage with Donald Trump, has talked about the protesters being terrorists. How do you come up against that force? Because that's a force that has a lot of power.

AC: I think for now we can continue to engage with them through the systems we have. And as you know, the state of Minnesota is doing a civil rights events investigation in our police department for discriminatory practices. And so the state, the hand of the state will force some of the changes that are already on there underway. So I'm not interested in getting stuck in the politics of the union. I am interested in hearing from police officers who want to see change, who want to improve our systems, who are truly serving in compassion. But I am releasing myself from the grip of the union, and this is why we're committing to building an entirely new system, because those systems we've inherited are not meant to serve our people or our officers.

CO: All right. Well, a lot of cities, municipalities in your country and in ours will be watching to see what you do. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

AC: Thank you for your time.

CH: Alondra Cano is a Minneapolis city councillor. We reached her in Minneapolis. And you can find more on this story on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih. And stay tuned, a little later on the show, we'll speak with a resident of Camden, New Jersey, who will tell us what it's been like living through the overhaul of policing there.

[Music]

Rube Goldberg Winner

Guest: Tony Round

CH: The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. But the coolest distance is a lot more circuitous. And when it comes to Rube Goldberg machines, straight lines are absolutely not the point. Mr. Goldberg was an American cartoonist who was famous for creating overly complicated machines to complete a simple task. Now, as we told you earlier this spring, those machines are celebrated with an annual contest. And this year, organizers asked participants to build a machine that would dispense a bar of soap. And Canadians Tony Round and his family took home the grand prize, took it home the long way. We reached Tony Round in Toronto.

CO: First of all, Tony, congratulations to your family.

TONY ROUND: Well, thanks very much. We were quite excited, thrilled, and it was a fun challenge to work on.

CO: Did you think you had a shot at winning when you entered?

TR: I thought we had a good submission, but we've seen a lot of really fantastic submissions and there's so much ingenuity. We were pretty surprised to have won.

CO: What got you interested? What alerted you to the idea that you could actually pull this off?

TR: Well, here I have to thank As It Happens because we saw the story on the CBC website. Listened to the interview that you did with Jennifer George. And from there, I kind of nudged the kids and said, hey, should we try this out? Looks like fun.

CO: And Jennifer is the granddaughter of Rube Goldberg. He made these ideas in these cartoons, but he never expected anyone to actually build the machine. So it's kind of fun that this contest now is about building machines, isn't it?

TR: Yeah, it's fantastic. And as I understand, these competitions were held in U.S. schools kind of as a regional competition with finals. And I guess with the pandemic and the shutdown, they decided to open it up to families and submitting things via YouTube.

CO: Which is what you did. How long did it take for you to build your soap dispensing machine?

TR: I think we thought about it and did some experiments for three weeks, maybe working in the evenings and on weekends. And then when it came time to put everything together and try to get the whole thing to work, that took us two days of filming.

CO: Okay. So without going through the whole thing, describe the sort of general elaboration of your Rube Goldberg machine for soap dispensing.

TR: Yeah, well, I guess we tried to pick up on the idea of Rube Goldberg machines being slightly whimsical. They have a purpose, but the idea is that it's as convoluted as possible. Well, the theme being to encourage people to wash your hands and to drop a bar of soap. The thought was that we would have, in this case, our daughter arrive at the sink, press a button, which starts a chain reaction that slowly leads around the house as much as possible. It went down the dining room, into the living room, up the stairs, back down the stairs, and then eventually, two minutes later, if all goes well, a bar of soap falls into her hands at the sink where she started.

CO: And your addition to it which is the sort of finishing touch that wasn't requested in the competition, was that it actually turns on the water as well.

TR: Yeah, that was a part of the grand finale. Yes. We came across a round bar of soap so it seemed ideal to have it roll down, but also on its way down a wooden track. It releases a marble which turns on the water at the sink as well.

CO: So what was the trickiest part?

TR: There were many tricky parts. It seemed like chaos would somehow take over. And over maybe 50 attempts, it failed in different ways each time. We had some ambitious stages, including having a stuffed animal parachute from the ceiling and trigger some toilet paper to roll down the hallway. That didn't always work. We did have as part of the grand finale, we originally planned to have our pet dog retrieve a bone with a string attached, which would pull out a pencil, which would allow the soap to roll down. But on the day of by the time we had everything together, he was too terrified of the machine. He would barely even come into the house. Even adding peanut butter to the bone, we couldn't get him to perform for us so we had to cut him from the team.

CO: And you had this record player that's going, a disco ball, everything. Is this all stuff from your house?

TR: Yeah. I guess the advice from Jennifer George is to try to look at everyday objects and think about how they can be repurposed. So we spent some time looking for interesting things like neat marbles or, like you say, the record player and the disco ball. I think that was our favourite step of the process.

CO: Describe the moment of when you did a run for you for the first time and everything worked.

TR: I have to say that we were kind of stunned into silence because it had gone wrong so many times. And I'm just really happy that our daughter actually caught the soap [chuckles] and remembered to wash her hands.

CO: [Chuckles] Because she was so surprised that it had worked, do you think that at some point she would forget what you should do with the soap?

TR: Yeah. I was just glad that she was still standing at the sink two minutes later.

CO: [Laughs] But what comes with the award, do you know? How do they present this?

TR: It was presented on a livestream on Sunday. We didn't know until the time of that we were the grand prize winners. And I think that the Rube Goldberg organization is going to send us some some merchandise.

CO: I imagine your family is like so many other families trying to get through this pandemic and being in the house all the time. Did this give you something to focus on that you had this project?

TR: Yeah, for sure. Something else to think about beyond the usual movie nights and jigsaw puzzles, things like that. And I have to say that we feel really lucky that we are able to be at home and be healthy. And simply there are a lot of people, essential workers, who are out there making it so that so many people can stay home.

CO: It's good to have something to do with your family, isn't it?

TR: Yeah. It's been a strange time, but I guess one of the positives is that so many people are able to spend time with their families like this.

CO: Even if the dog doesn't cooperate?

TR: Yes. [Laughs]

CO: [Laughs] Tony, it's great to talk to you. And again, congratulations.

TR: Well, thanks very much.

CH: Tony Round and his family are the grand prize winners of this year's Rube Goldberg machine contest. We reached him in Toronto. You can find out more and you can see the Round family's machine in action on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

AI Editors

CH: At least two robot vacuums have started house fires. And our robot home assistance can be helpful when you want to know the weather, but they're eavesdropping on us. So at this point, the technology designed to help us is not great at it. And it turns out the technology designed to replace us is not so hot either. Just ask the human editors at MSN.com. Days after reports revealed Microsoft's plan to replace dozens of those editors with artificial intelligence, those living-breathing human editors are already cleaning up the robots messes. In an early rollout of the new software MSN republished a story about Little Mix singer Jade Thirlwall's reflections on racism. That story was accompanied by an image, except it wasn't an image of Ms. Thirlwall. It was an image of another mixed race member of Little Mix. When asked about the rather large mix up, a Microsoft spokesperson reportedly said, quote, "As soon as we became aware of this issue, we immediately took action to resolve it." Except that wasn't all they did. According to the Guardian, MSN also told its staff to expect coverage of the apparent racist bias of its new A.I. and to delete said coverage from the site if the A.I. reposted it, which it did. The logic being, I suppose, that a story about MSN.com would interest MSN.com readers. So great work, A.I. your media circuits started a media circus.

[Music]

Part 2: Camden Police

Camden Police

Guest: Jacob Rodriguez

CH: Camden, New Jersey, used to be ranked by the FBI as the most dangerous city in America. That was about seven years ago. And yesterday on the program, we told you about major reforms to the police force there that are turning things around. Across the U.S. right now, municipalities are raising the issue of reforming or dismantling their police forces. Jacob Rodriguez lived through that change in Camden. He was born and raised there and now works as a residential counsellor at the Centre for Family Services. We reached him in Camden.

CO: Jacob, we just spoke with a city councillor in Minneapolis who says the day that she saw George Floyd die under that man's knee, the policeman's knee, is the moment she decided their police force had to be completely rebuilt. What was the moment in Camden when people realized that you had to rebuild your own police force?

JACOB RODRIGUEZ: It was definitely something in the making. Just years of corruption, years of the police brutality that was going on in city. A lot of that played into the fact of our police department being disbanded.

CO: And how difficult was it to convince people that this is what had to happen?

JR: It was very difficult. We're talking about disbanding an entire police department. In Camden it happened in phases. But at the very end, we had just a handful of police officers. It was very difficult. We didn't have anyone to rely on. The police were working extra hours because, again, it was just handful of officers. So at first it was very difficult.

CO: And were people concerned about crime and that there'd be nobody there to sort of protect them from things?

JR: Yeah, I mean, people in the city already had that fear of the police officers -- not so much the fear, but lack of trust in the police officers. So hearing that the disbandment was going to happen, just added more fuel to that fire of the fear and especially in the 2012. That's when the majority of the police department disbanded that year. That was the year that we saw record numbers in murders and crime. We had about 67 murders that year. And like every week, we were getting one or two murders. But we were having one or two murders occurring in the city of Camden. So it was something that was very scary at the time.

CO: We've heard in an interview we did yesterday that eventually the crime rate, the violent crime, the murder rate has gone down by half or even two thirds since those days. So eventually it worked, right?

JR: Yeah, it eventually worked. It did. It was definitely one of those things that was a work in progress. And even when they brought in the new force that he brought in, it was something that the residents had to get used to because we weren't used to the new faces of the police department. One of the main things they did different when they disbanded the police officers and brought in the new force was the community policing, where the police officers were starting to walk the beats more and be more communal with the residents of the city. So that helped alleviate some of that fear that we once felt. And even some of that, not knowing what's next.

CO: What were your own personal experiences with police as you were growing up in Camden?

JR: They were shaky. I remember as a kid, you know, just playing outside. We didn't have any local parks at the time. So we would play football in the middle of the street. Cops would drive by and see us playing football. And, you know, they would just shoo us away and make sure that we're no longer out there playing. I also had a personal experience at a young age where I was stopped and frisked and even put in the back of a police vehicle because I fit the description of an adult. I was 12 at the time. In eyes of the police officer, I fit the description of an adult. That stuck with me for so long.

CO: And how often do you think that that experience, that impression that's so lasting on a young person, how often is that repeated, not just in Camden, but in other cities across the United States?

JR: I believe that happens on a daily basis. And I believe that's where the mistrust happens. You know, because there's a lot of times when we're watching these videos on TV or you will be experiencing this, one of the first thing that's coming out of the police officer's mouth is that you either fit the description or they're doing this for their safety, their protection and their safety. And for us, especially as a child, when you're looking at a police officer who should be serving and protecting you, for them to feel threatened by a 12 year old, for me that stuck with me for years and years. It is actually something that I never spoke about up until recently.

CO: You and so many others knew that something had to change. But to do what Camden did was obviously an enormous leap of faith. Since George Floyd's death, do you think that there is that political will, there is that ability to take a leap of faith in other municipalities, as you did in Camden?

JR: Honestly, I can only hope because we don't know what's really in their thought process. A lot of the stuff we're seeing, you know, it could just be good for the public eye. I could only hope that what they're saying is true. But if it is true, you know, it is not just saying that you want to disband the police department or change what's going on or even have a reform, it's actually doing it. That's been the problem for so many years, for example, when the protests happened, there's so many promises being made to the people to kind of settle down a situation. That after those promises are made, it's kind of like we go back to the same situation. So about two weeks ago, Camden had a protest, a march. And one of the great things about this march, it was mixed with not just the residents but you had the city officials, the mayor, the city council. You had members of the police department. You also had the state senator walking alongside the residents, which is amazing to see. And it actually felt like a victory for us, you know. But as the days go on, you know, what myself and other residents want to know is, you know, what comes next? It's great to have these marches. It's great to walk alongside people. And it's great to say certain things that sounds good to people. But what's next?

CO: How much less likely do you think it is that if you were 12 now and in Camden, do you think it's less likely that you would have had that encounter with police?

JR: By myself, I think I would not have that situation. If I am with a group of other kids, I think we will have that counter still. I believe that content will still happen.

CO: So you still think there's this racial profiling and racism in Camden's police force?

JR: Profiling, yes. There's definitely profiling that continues to this day.

CO: And do you think that will ever change?

JR: I want to be hopeful and say yes. But it's been a vicious cycle for so long. And I want to stay hopeful. You know, I don't want to become one of those people that loses hope. So to answer your question, yes, I believe things can change. It is going to take a lot from the people to make sure that it happens.

CO: Jacob, I really appreciate speaking with you, thank you.

JR: You're welcome.

CO: Jacob Rodriguez is a residential counsellor at the Centre for Family Services in Camden, New Jersey. That's where we reached him. Talk of dismantling police forces is too much for Michael O'Meara to take. He is the New York Police's union boss. He unleashed on the reporters covering his press conference today. Here's part of what he said, flanked by dozens of officers as he pointed to his badge.

MICHAEL O'MEARA: This isn't stained by someone in Minneapolis. It's still got a shine on it. And so do theirs. So do theirs. Stop treating us like animals and thugs. And start treating us with some respect. That's what we're here today to say. We've been left out of the conversation. We've been vilified. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. Trying to make us embarrassed of our profession, 375-million interactions. Overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly positive. Nobody talks about all the police officers that were killed in the last week in the United States of America. And there were a number of them. We don't condone Minneapolis. We roundly reject what he did as disgusting. It's disgusting. It's not what we do. It's not what police officers do. Our legislators abandoned us. The press is vilifying us. Well, you know what, guys? I'm proud to be a cop and I'm going to continue to be proud to be a cop until the day I retire. And that's all I have to say.

CH: New York Police union boss Michael O'Meara speaking to reporters today.

[Music]

From our archives: Whistling baby

VOICE: [Soundclip] You know how to whistle, don't you Steve? You just put your lips together and blow.

CH: That was Lauren Bacall from the 1944 film "To Have and Have Not." A classic tale of romance, intrigue and whistling lessons as a movie line. It's brilliantly loaded, delivered with maximum sultriness by Mes. Bacall. The whistling advice, though, is terrible: just put your lips together and blow? [Makes flapping lips sound] Whistling is far more complex than that, which is why young Jason Fisher's achievement was so impressive and raised important questions. Questions like how did a 10 month old figure out how to whistle? And how do you get a 10 month old to stop whistling? Here's Michael Enright's interview with Jason's mother, Jane Fisher, from 1987.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Hello, Mrs. Fisher. How's Jason?

JANE FISHER: Okay. Here's right by me here.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: He is. Is he?

JANE FISHER: [Faint whistling sound in the background] You can hear him slightly whistling a bit. [Chuckles]

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Is that Jason whistling?!

JANE FISHER: Yes. [Chuckles]

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: That's terrific. How old was he when he first started whistling?

JANE FISHER: Seven months old.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: [Whistling sounds] How did it happen? Did he just start whistling one day and you noticed it or what?

JANE FISHER: Yes. Yes. It just started, you know. And since, he hasn't stopped. Here he is again. He is stopping and starting.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: He doesn't have any teeth yet, I understand.

JANE FISHER: No. He'll grow them in winter.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Hi, Jason. How did he learn, do you think?

JANE FISHER: Well, I don't know really. We had a budgie first. And its family got pigeons. I don't know what it really is, you know.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: So was he copying the budgie do you think?

JANE FISHER: He could be really. Kevin whistles at the pigeons as well -- his father. And took him up there a lot when he was six or seven months old. So that's the start. It could be. He took whistle from there.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Can you whistle yourself? Did you ever whistle him to sleep or anything?

JANE FISHER: No, I can't. [Chuckles]

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: He's going like crazy. I can hear him in the background.

JANE FISHER: Yeah. You hear him? [Whistling sound]

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Yeah. [Laughter] He must be quite a star on your street. Is he a big hit with the neighbours?

JANE FISHER: Oh yeah. They love him. They come around to hear him.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Can we hear Jason whistle again?

JANE FISHER: Only if he will do it.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Oh, I know. How do you start him?

JANE FISHER: [Speaking in soft voice] Are you going to whistle? You want to whistle? I don't know. He might or might not.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Can you hold him up to the phone? I know he just woke up. I don't want to...

JANE FISHER: He's right by me, you know. But I don't think he...

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Hi Jason. Hi Jason.

JANE FISHER: Kevin get him to whistle once more. Go on. Jason. Whistle birdie.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Maybe he's still tired.

JANE FISHER: I'm so tired. [Chuckles] He's off again. I'm sorry.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Well, listen, we'll let him go and wet his whistle if he wants. Thank you for talking to us.

JANE FISHER: Okay then.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Goodnight.

JANE FISHER: Goodnight.

CH: From 1987, that was Michael Enright speaking with Jane Fisher of Rogerstone, Wales, about her 10 month old son, Jason, who could whistle. There is something inherently cheerful about whistling. So I don't imagine Mike and Pat Cooney, who were known as the whistling butterflies, ever went to bed angry. Their neighbours, maybe, but not them. In 2007, the couple won first place in the duet competition at the International Whistling Convention, and when they talked to guest host Mark Kelly, he found all was fair in love and warbling.

MARK KELLY: Mike and Pat, if you're both out there.

BOTH: Hello. Hello.

MARK KELLY: Can you whistle for me? Just let me know you're there. [Whistling sounds] Fantastic. Congratulations to both of you.

BOTH: Thank you.

MARK KELLY: So how did it feel to win?

MIKE COONEY: We're actually still in shock. We didn't expect to win. We just sort of entered that division is the Allied Arts Division, which is combining whistling with some other art form, like singing or something like that or a musical instrument. And twenty five acts from eight countries. We didn't expect to even place, let alone take first place.

MARK KELLY: Wow. That's incredible. So what was the attraction of the wonderful world?

MIKE COONEY: I'm not sure. That's a good question. I think it's just one of those moments when you just nail something. And I think we just nailed it that day.

PAT COONEY: You know, they liked the way we presented on stage. They liked the quality of the whistling and the duet version of, you know, the harmony that we did in wonderful world.

MARK KELLY: Now, Mike, you're a veteran. But Pat you're pretty new to this.

PAT COONEY: Very new. [Laughs]

MARK KELLY: Now if Mike couldn't believe it. How about you? What do you think it is?

PAT COONEY: Just stunned. [Laughs] Just really stunned. It was really exciting. The moment that they announced that we had won a trophy because people go back down to the whistling convention for years and years, as Michael has done before, and you're just happy to be in that environment but you know that sometimes it takes maybe five to 10 years to win something. So it's pretty thrilling.

MARK KELLY: Just how competitive is this competitive world of international whistling?

MIKE COONEY: If I can answer hat. I think it's very very competitive. People from, as I mentioned, eight different countries -- there were about 10 people in from Japan and they had been practicing getting ready for this for the last six years, ever since they came in 2001. One of the fellows pulled second place that year. And ever since then, they've been going back and they've been working and working at it. Fellows from Norway and Great Britain. These people are all very very serious professionals. Some of them, not most them, but some of them make a living whistling or make a living at music somehow. But they're very serious.

MARK KELLY: You mentioned they're practicing. What kind of training do you do for a competition like this?

MIKE COONEY: Well, Pat was the heavy trainer this time. Pat was putting in how many hours? Three and sometimes four hours a day.

PAT COONEY: On average about I'd say about two a day, sometimes more than that. If I could work it in.

MARK KELLY: Give us an example. I mean, what were you doing Pat preparing for this?

PAT COONEY: I had to prepare pieces in popular and classical. And what I chose in popular was one piece done by Roger Whittaker called Mexican Whistler.

MARK KELLY: Can you give me a little taste of that?

MIKE COONEY: Go for it Patty. [Laughter]

PAT COONEY: [Whistling "Mexican Whistler"] And then it gets very fast and very tricky at points. And it's taken me quite a long time to feel comfortable doing that one. And then I also had to prepare for two classical pieces as well. And that was a challenge to find the right pieces for my range and for my ability at this point. But I'm one of those people who likes to practice. So that was the fun part. The nerve wracking part was actually getting up on stage and doing it.

MARK KELLY: Had you ever done that before in front of an audience?

PAT COONEY: Not by myself. Michael and I usually appear together as a duet. And I started by doing harmony whistling with him. And we do sing together so that's not a big stretch. But the main thing was to go out on my own as a female competitor in the female division. And although I didn't twice, I felt that I had done fairly well. So that's what I had put my efforts into. And the allied arts was just the icing on the cake to win in that division.

MARK KELLY: Well, I want to throw something at you. I want you to listen to this song. And then see if you can whistle it. First, let's listen. [As It Happens theme plays] [Mike and Pat laugh] [Both start whistling the As It Happens Theme]

MARK KELLY: I think we've got a new rendition in the works here. [Laughter]

PAT COONEY: If you give it to him for 10 more minutes, he'll have a jazz rendition for you. [Laughter]

MARK KELLY: Well, listen, you work on that and send it to us if you can. Congratulations to both of you.

MIKE COONEY: Thank you very much. Thanks for your call.

MARK KELLY: Okay. Bye bye.

BOTH: Bye bye.

CH: From 2007, guest host Mark Kelly speaking with Mike and Pat Cooney of Edmonton about winning the duet competition at the International Whistling Convention.

[Music]

Jocelyn Parker

CH: It was a horrific scene in the small community of Middle Musquodoboit, Nova Scotia. Police say a woman was killed by her own dog while she was taking it for a walk this morning. The dog was later killed when it was hit by a car. Jocelyn Parker was one of the people who discovered the body of the woman. Here she is telling the stories to the CBC's Shaina Luck.

JOCELYN PARKER: I was just driving in my car and I could see -- it was on big straight stretch -- so up in the distance, there was a dog standing on the yellow line and there was a blue car parked on the side of the road. And then there was a person standing on the side of the road. And I just proceeded slowly up to the girl. And it was a young girl from the community, a 15 year old who had been jogging and she waved me down and I rolled down my window and she said, there's a dead body in the ditch. And I said, oh my God. So I pulled over and got out. And we both just kind of looked at her from the side of the road. And her injuries were rather extensive. It was very apparent that she had passed away. The 15 year old girl said that she had jogged by this woman and her dog, the woman that was in the ditch and her dog, which was the one that was an the rope when I approached earlier. And she had continued on her jog. They were sitting on the side of the road, it was like a grassy field kind of thing, borders on the road. And they were just sitting there. Like, I don't know if she was taking a rest, giving her dog a drink of water. What? I don't know what she was doing there. But Keanna said I kept jogging along and then I came back 15 minutes later and the dog is standing there and the woman's in the ditch. So what transpired in that 10 or 15 minutes? We don't know. Only her and the dog will know, I guess. People are in disbelief. And people are just saying, you know, like there's a lot of small families and children are all home right now as you know, in a beautiful sunny morning in June, a lot of children are playing outside and people are just really glad that nobody else was hurt.

CH: That was Jocelyn Parker talking about the horrific discovery of a body in rural Nova Scotia. The body of a woman who'd been attacked by her own dog.

[Music]

Part 3: Roman City Mapping

Roman City Mapping

Guest: Lieven Verdonck

CH: About 50 kilometers north of Rome, there's a place called Falerii Novi. There's not much to see there today. It's mostly open fields and what's left of an old monastery and city wall. But if you have the right technology, a whole other world emerges. Belgian and English researchers have done a ground penetrating radar survey of the entire Roman town that dates back to 241 B.C.. The results are published online today in the journal Antiquity. Archeologist Lieven Verdonck is the lead author of the research. We reached him in Ghent, Belgium.

CO: Lieven, what do we know about what is hiding under Falerii Novi?

LIEVEN VERDONCK: So we know already from earlier sources, even from ancient writers, that there is a Roman city buried under those fields. Some previous research has been done and there have been excavations in the 19th century even, and also in the 1970s there were relatively small-scale excavations. And there have also been what we call non-invasive investigation. So that is scanning the surface and using aerial photography, for example. So there is already quite a bit of information which we had before starting this project, that there was something going on underneath the soil over there.

CO: And what have you been able to figure out from being able to do this research underground? How do you envision how people lived, what they did, what kind of systems they had, sort of, I guess, municipal systems in that city?

LV: Yeah, there's quite a bit of information we have been able to gather to reconstruct how life was was going on in Roman times over there. And part of that is things that we know also from other well-known cities like Pompeii, for example, when we talk about Roman cities, many people will automatically think about Pompeii for example. And some of the things we were able to discover or see under the surface are things that are also present in those other cities, like a theater, for example, or a bath, building or large houses. But there were also other things that are quite different from those cities which are better known. For example, there are large number of temples in the city and those temples are built mainly in the periphery, so not really in the centre of the town, but it's more in the periphery. They're built against the city wall. And so that's something special which we don't find in every city.

CO: So what does that tell you about what function this city, Falerii Novi, played? Were these temples unusual in the city for a reason? Do you think that it was part of the city's reasoning?

LV: It must have played an important role. For example, it may have been part of the procession that perhaps went on every year or more frequently around the wall and then going near all those temples. And so the religious function or the ritual function may have been quite important. Whereas, for example, economic buildings are less present in the city or are less striking than in other similar cities. And that doesn't mean that there was no economic function, but perhaps the inhabitants of Falerii Novi had large estates or farms outside the city. And that had their income or perhaps that the economic aspects. Whereas within the city, we really see well those temples for example, something particular here, something that we do not see in most other cities that's something really special which we found here.

CO: What about the city's water system that you discovered?

LV: Yes, that's also something that is quite special because it's still a hypothesis. But what we see is that not all the drains and not all the water pipes or the water wells are running exactly in the direction of the streets. So we have kind of the checkerboard street grids, which we see in many other Roman cities, perpendicular one to the other. But that water system does not always necessarily follow the course of the streets. And sometimes it seems to go straight from an aqueduct, for example, it seems to go straight to one of the bath buildings and not necessarily following the routes. That's also something rather special which we discovered.

CO: And you've been able to discover all this, it is really a very elaborate feature of this Roman city. You've done it all with ground penetrating radar. Why not excavate? I mean, this is the traditional way of discovering the layout of the ruins, isn't it?

LV: Yes, sure. And excavating, of course, always has an added value, a surplus value on the techniques that we're using in the sense that, for example, we can find material that allow us to date the site in detail. Because that's something we cannot do that easily with our techniques. But of course, excavating is very expensive and it takes very long. Even then, you can only dig in a very small area. And what we are trying to do is really to make the context available for those excavations so that we also have the bigger picture. So we could see a very intensive excavation at a very small area, which then is the excavation can be very complementary to the larger picture, which we can create with our investigations.

CO: All right. Well, I'm glad that you were able to get a glimpse of what's going on underground Lieven. And I appreciate talking to you. Thank you.

LV: Thank you very much Carol.

CH: Lieven Verdonck is an archeologist and postdoctoral researcher at Ghent University in Belgium. That's where we reached him.

[Music]

Ideas promo: Canadian slavery secret

CH: On Ideas tonight, an award winning documentary on slavery in colonial Canada. It wasn't just a case of a handful of slaves owned by British loyalists. Thousands of Black and Indigenous people were enslaved here. And it's a history not well-known in this country.

VOICE: If you talk to anyone about slavery in Canada, they'll likely evoke the Underground Railroad, the famed network of activists who provided safe houses and helped slaves find freedom. It remains a real and important part of Canada's history, but omits a two century old slave trade that's also part of our history. Charmaine Nelson is professor of art history at McGill University in Montreal.

CHARMAINE NELSON: The Underground Railroad was about 30 years, so the British abolished slavery in all of their empire including what becomes Canada in 1833 by an act of parliament. And then the American Civil War breaks out in 1861. It's just that window of time where African-Americans are fleeing north. Okay so 30 years. Canadian slavery transpires over 200 plus years. So what does it take, we've got to think about this, what does it take to erase 200 years of history from the collective consciousness of a nation, but to enshrine three decades?

VOICE: I must admit, I was also in the dark about a lot of this history. And half my family is from Jamaica, which was a slave society for generations. The late Quebec historian Marcel Trudeau identified some 4200 slaves in New France alone. But he and other historians say the number is undoubtedly much higher from families separated and sold at auction blocks at Halifax Harbour to enslaved women raped in Ontario, their children born into bondage. It's a long and brutal story.

CH: Canada's slavery secret, the whitewashing of 200 years of enslavement. The first of a two part documentary series tonight on Ideas with Nahlah Ayed following As It Happens.

[Music]

Talkback: Tea recipe

CH: Blasphemy. Horrific. My London born mom just turned in her grave. Just some of the reaction we received after playing this last night.

VOICE: Put it in the microwave. Set it for a minute. Pour the milk in. Drop your tea bag and add the sugar. Gave it a little stir. And that's how you make hot tea.

CH: That is from a TikTok posted by someone by the name of Michelle, an American living in the U.K. in which she describes how to make a proper British tea in the microwave. The video disgusted and united pretty much all of the UK, but it divided some of you.

CO: Jennifer Trower tweeted, I literally gasped a few times while watching this, gasping in horror. If I even need to clarify. And Andrea Castner was already feeling her late English grandmother's ire. She sent us this email. "Sitting here listening to As It Happens, drinking my tea, thinking I have descended into depravity due to the fact I had made my tea by pouring boiling water from a kettle over a tea bag in a mug. But no, from As It Happens, I learned the true definition of depravity is pouring milk and sugar into a mug of water, nuked in the microwave and plopping in a tea bag. Horrors. Wanton degeneracy. We are lost.

CH: Well, some people felt that Michelle's controversial method was their bag. Here's a call received by Talkback.

PETERE CUNNINGHAM: Peter Cunningham, southern Alberta. I agree. The microwave is a fabulous way to make a cup of tea for me. A minute and twenty five seconds and I'm ready to go. Now for all you Brits that may be listening, I re-use the teabag [chuckles] three times before I throw it away. Uh oh! Hate mail coming.

CH: [Chuckles] And finally, this call to Talkback with the proper way to make tea.

ANN MARIE PENDERGAST: Hi Carol. It's Ann Marie Pendergast. First you have to hot the pot, then you empty it, put in the tea bags and pour boiling water over top and let it steep. That American tea was disgusting.

CO: Okay. You didn't tell us how long to steep it and all those details.

CH: But our operators are standing by. [Laughter]

CO: Thank you to everyone who wrote, tweeted, and called us. If you have anything you'd like to share, including your recipes for tea, you can email us at aih@cbc.ca. Or call Talkback with your recipes: 416-205-5687.

[Music]

Radio Dramas

Guest: David Grieg

CH: When David Greig was asked to write a play for Scotland's Pitlochry Festival, he knew its setting would be hugely important. The play was to be staged alongside a tributary of the River Tay. And so it would be set on the river's banks as well. But then the pandemic happened and Mr. Greig's play couldn't, at least not as originally envisioned.

VOICE 1: [Soundclip] Where am I?

VOICE 2: You're in Kenmore.

VOICE 1: Where is that?

VOICE 2: A village by the side of Loch Tay.

VOICE 1: I've never heard of it.

VOICE 2: No. Don't suppose you have. We are only are a wee place. The people here belong to the salmon. She laid out the country. And after she'd swum all the way up the Tay, she was too tired to do very much else, which is why we're mostly bog and rock.

VOICE 1: Who are you?

VOICE 2: I'm Essany, Witch of Kenmore. This is the House of the Dead.

VOICE 1: Is the house of the dead a boat?

VOICE 2: No.

VOICE 1: Well I can hear water below me.

VOICE 2: Oh, that's the loch. The house is an island. It's built on stilts. How is the tea?

VOICE 1: Bitter.

VOICE 2: Let me see your face in the light.

CH: Kirsty Stuart and Olivier Huband star in the new radio adaptation of Adventures with the Painted People, which premiered on the BBC this week. It's one of a growing number of theater productions being reimagined as audio dramas. David Greig is the playwright. We reached him in North Queensferry, just outside Edinburgh.

CO: David, what was it like to hear your play premier this week rather than watching it happen?

DAVID GRIEG: It was really moving, actually, because, of course, I had worried that it might never be seen at all. And so, yeah, we went out this Sunday and it went live and I knew that people were listening to it. So it felt like reconnecting to something. I'm a writer so it's a very important part of my life.

CO: We just heard a clip. It's very spooky, a very rich sound to it. So tell us a bit about Adventures with the Painted People. What's the play about?

DG: So the play set in the year A.D. 86 in what was then Caledonia, now Scotland. And it's really the moment of the Roman Empire's furthest advance. Very briefly, the Roman Empire conquered Caledonia and built a fort beside the River Tay in Scotland and really looked like it was there to stay. And then for reasons that we don't really know exactly, they decided to leave after only about three years. And I wanted to write a play about that encounter. So I have a story of a Pictish or a Caledonian woman who kidnaps a Roman soldier because she wants to learn about them and she is wondering how best to deal with these people and how her people should deal with them.

CO: And the play was supposed to be set almost exactly -- actually, the action is where it was supposed to be staged. So how disappointing was it for you not to be able to use the space as you had envisioned?

DG: Oh, it was awful, you know. I mean, the thing to say about this COVID is that it's destroyed, really, theater. And I'm sure in Canada, just as it is here, it's really been a brutal hit on all of the industry. The only thing I would say is that we very much hope that one day we will be able to stage it. But in the meantime, being able to do on the radio was actually surprisingly effective. And I think what surprised me was we were able to sit and I was in my home in North Queensferry. The director, Elizabeth, was in Lockerbie, which is a hundred miles away. The actor Olivier was in Stroud in England, which is 500 miles away. Literally, every member of the production team was in a different place. And yet, when you listen to that somehow sound conjures it into one place and in your head. And it's very intimate. And it's really, you know, lovely for the actors.

CO: And then you did that again with the audience, didn't you? Because the premiere where you had people listening and then gathering on Zoom beforehand sharing drinks and talking. So again, you had your audience that you spoke to all over the place.

DG: I don't know about you, but I miss plays for sure. I'm a writer. I miss plays but I miss going to the theater most. That's the thing that I'm really finding hard. So we decided -- I run a theater in Edinburgh called the Lyceum Theater and we decided to invite some friends and patrons of the theater to see what it would be like to have a live event. And so we had about 100 of them. And yeah, we did everything. You know, we had the pre-show drinks and we had a talk with the actors. And it actually was a really lovely live event. And again, it's not a replacement, but it was a nice reminder of why we love going to the theater for the social side as much as the play itself.

CO: As far as staging, of course we're using that term, it is not really what you do with a radio play. But how did you pull it together? Because we used one time have great radio drama studios. So how did you manage this?

DG: Yeah, well, you know, literally Kirsty was in her wardrobe [laughs] in a small village in Perthshire, and Olivier had a duvet over his head and a microphone set attached to his laptop. And the sound engineer was able to mix all of that and then add in these, you know, obviously the sound effects. And it sounded like it was all made in one place. So there was something about radio where we felt like we could fully realize it. And as you heard in that clip, you know, hopefully you're immediately spun into the location and you can imagine it in your head, you know.

CO: And all you need to have is bathtub and splashing a bit and got a Loch. [Laughter]

DG: That's exactly it. Someone just says look at that amazing Loch. There it is.

CO: What are the possibilities -- yes, we miss the stage, we miss the theater, all this -- but I mean, even in the CBC we had it wasn't that many decades ago we were still making radio plays here with the studios. Is it possible this could be revived? You just mentioned the technology.

DG: Well, we're very much -- I run a theater, Lyceum in Edinburgh, and we're in real trouble. You know, we've lost 70 percent of our income because the box office is completely gone. And we're really thinking about other ways that we can connect with audiences. And, you know, suddenly we're finding the audio might be a possible solution. And Britain has a big tradition of theater radio plays, but technology means that that is now in the same way that podcasts, you know, available to everybody almost in your pocket. To a certain degree, the ability to make audio drama is now much more accessible. And so I do think it will be part of the solution. What I would though say is that for me, it's a step on the way to recovery in this stage because I very much hope that we will be able to show the play on the stage as it was originally intended.

CO: Well, meanwhile, people on this side of the pond would be able to hear it. So that's the advantage.

DG: I'm thrilled. I really hope they will. I really hope people enjoy it.

CO: Thank you so much.

DG: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

CH: David Greig is the playwright behind Adventures with the Painted People. We reached him in North Queensferry, Scotland. CBC Radio has its own long history of audio dramas, of course, many of them the work of journalist and writer Silver Donald Cameron. Mr. Cameron died last week. He was 82 years old. His award winning radio drama, The Sisters, first aired in 1979. It's the story of a blind woman named Mary, her lover, Isaac, and her jealous sister, Rachel.

VOICE 1: Mary Mary Mary. Oh you're cold. Here I brought a blanket. No one saw you come.

VOICE 2: All were sleeping Isaac. I came over the kitchen roof.

VOICE 1: Over the kitchen roof?!

VOICE 2: My side is by the window. And Rachel sleeping in the same bed and the floor creaks loud.

VOICE 1: But over the roof?!

VOICE 2: Oh, Isaac, there's nothing thing too good about being blind. People with sight often see danger where there's no danger at all. Aren't you glad I've come?

VOICE 1: Glad? I guess I'm glad.

VOICE 2: You don't act it.

VOICE 1: I'll show you. No. Come here now.

VOICE 2: [Chuckles] Oh no. What you have to ask for isn't worth heaven?

VOICE 1: No? Then I might as well be going.

VOICE 2: What a wicked man you are. And cruel.

VOICE 1: I didn't say I might not take you with me.

VOICE 2: Did I say I'd go?

VOICE 1: And if I said it and meant it, what then? Oh [laughs] you wild little bird.

VOICE 3: Mary. Mary.

VOICE 2: Hush Rachel. Go back to sleep.

VOICE 3: I wasn't asleep. Your hair's wet.

VOICE 2: Yes. It'll dry.

VOICE 3: You were in the water.

VOICE 2: Go to sleep Rachel.

VOICE 3: No. I know why you were in the water. I followed you.

VOICE 2: You follow me?

VOICE 3: Yes. I couldn't see none too well, but I followed it. You went down to the shore and waited and there was a whistle. You took off your clothes and went into the water, to the whistle. That was a long time ago, two hours at least.

VOICE 2: You saw...how dare you?

VOICE 3: And I can guess more. A man was there. Sure. And what man? Not a decent man we would call at the house. Somebody else. And what man wouldn't call it this house? Only one. Walter Bond from Shag Cove. But you wouldn't be seeing Walter. One of his sons, perhaps. Isaac? Isaac Bond.

VOICE 2: Rachel.

VOICE 3: I've seen you at the church picnic talking with Isaac Bond, when you thought nobody was watching. I've seen the way you acted, laughing and joking and tossing your head. He thought nobody's seeing. But I’ve seen you talking at a picnic. I've seen other things too.

VOICE 2: Like what?

VOICE 3: Things. Things you don't know I've seen.

VOICE 2: Rachel, what things?

VOICE 3: That Isaac Bond is always rolling round here into the harbour to see his granddad lately. He's so fond of his granddad these last few months is Isaac. Why is that now? Who seems to be fond of your granddad? Why is he always walking in the woods out back do you think? You've taken to walking in the woods the deal yourself this past while.

VOICE 2: Yes.

VOICE 3: We're not all blind here, you know.

VOICE 2: You didn't tell anyone?

VOICE 3: Like who? Well, you mean father, won't you say so?

VOICE 2: All right. Father.

VOICE 3: The one man in the world he hates, and you're seeing his son.

CH: An ominous excerpt from Silver Donald Cameron's radio drama "The Sisters" which first aired on CBC Radio in 1979. Mr. Cameron died last week in Halifax. He was 82.

[Music]

Tyrone The Bone Proctor

CH: It goes without saying that Soul Train was a Saturday morning TV dance party like no other before or since. It shook its groove thing and it made us shake ours for a staggering 35 years, and became a key venue for the music of black performers. But it wasn't just the music that kept that train on the rails and the party off the hook for so long, it was also the Soul Train dancers who inspired the rest of us to get up and get down. If you were a regular passenger on the Soul Train, you probably tried out the moves of one Tyrone the Bone Proctor. He was a pioneer of a fast moving, slightly flatley arms centric dance style he called Waacking. Waacking, also known as punking, first emerged in the gay Black and Latino underground club scene. It's not easy to describe, but you could think of it as a freer, looser form of vogueing, which might be why Tyrone the Bone Proctor is also sometimes called the grandmother of vogueing. Mr. Proctor died this past weekend. He was 66 years old.

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June 9, 2020 Episode Transcript

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