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The AIH Transcript for May 29, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Charging ahead. After days of protests on the streets of Minneapolis, the police officer who kneeled on George Floyd's neck has been charged. Our guest is one of the people who took to the streets to demand Justice for George. He'll tell us whether this arrest changes much.

CH: Baby bumps. On her way to a prenatal appointment, a BC woman notices she's lost her of sense of taste. Days later, she's diagnosed with COVID-19 and giving birth for the first time.

CH: And… Warning: strong language. When As It Happens spoke with Walter Cornelius in 1974, he was about to be catapulted 300 metres across a river. The world's strongest man was cheerfully uncertain about where or how he was going to land.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: George Floyd death charges, Larry Kramer obituary, strongman

CH: Protests continue in the streets of Minneapolis. And George Floyd's family says the fight is far from over. But today, there was one major development: the fired police officer who knelt on Mr. Floyd's neck just before Mr. Floyd died was arrested.

[sc]

MIKE FREEMAN: Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin has been charged by the Hennepin County attorney's office with murder and with manslaughter. He has been charged with third-degree murder. We are in the process of continuing to review the evidence. There may be subsequent charges later.

REPORTER: What about the other three officers involved?

MF: The investigation is ongoing. We felt it appropriate to focus on the most dangerous perpetrator. I must say that this case has moved with extraordinary speed. This conduct... this criminal action... took place on Monday evening, May 25th, Memorial Day. I'm speaking to you at one o'clock on Friday, May 29. That’s less than four days. That's extraordinary.

[/sc]

CH: Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman announced the charges this afternoon. Tray Pollard is an activist who has been out on the streets of Minneapolis -- working to prevent looting and damage there. That's where we reached him.

CO: Tray, first of all, can I get your reaction to the former police officer whose arrest today to Derek Chauvin arrest?

TRAY POLLARD: My reaction to that, honestly, bool, I'm very disappointed. Very disappointed. First and foremost, that press conference that he did yesterday when he first announced that he didn't see significant evidence that would be, you know, chargeable., And then they came back and recanted the story that he said, stating that he misspoke. First of all, that was the mess that struck America last night, which is why you're here protesting across the country, not just Minneapolis. And then you come today, and you say that, first of all, it should have been first-degree murder, not third-degree. And then you added a manslaughter charge. And then when asked about the other three officers, you state that you wanted to get the most dangerous perpetrator. Well, you want to know where all the rage and all the frustration is coming from in the black community? It's almost as if you want to spit in our face and then you want to continue to spit in our face. So when I say my reaction is boo. The three officers that allowed that to happen, they are just as dangerous as the person that did it.

CO: Can I just ask you, though, this County Attorney Freeman, he had said that he thought that pressing charges against the officers too quickly could ultimately result in acquittals. We've seen things like that before. Is that... Wouldn't that spark even more powerful reaction if the cases don't stick against these men?

TP: Well, here's the deal. And a lot of those cases, it wasn't clear of this, it wasn't clear that, had eyewitnesses stating this, or had witnesses stating that. If there's one thing that you cannot justify is this was on camera for the world to see. What's on video don't lie. So, you know, the fact that, again, if this was clear and uncut murder and it was recorded, and they want to know why the black community is so enraged. Well, this is a part of why they are enraged. It seems like a law only applies to us in one form, but it applies to law enforcement or even Caucasians in a different way.

CO: I think I know the answer to the next question is, but I'll ask it anyways. What effect do you think this arrest will have on the protests that are rocking your city?

TP: Honestly, my prayer is that it tones it down a little bit. But my reality is, again, a lot of African-Americans in the community in which I work in and which I do a lot of diligent work in, that just kind of enraged them a little bit more [soft scoff], to be honest with you. Like, you mean to tell me you're not gonna charge all of them. My prayer is that it does tone it down some. That's what my ultimate prayer is. But my reality is, I mean, [thoughtful sigh] I'm out here on the front lines. I have been since this started. And you know, what I'm trying to keep people mindful of is that I knew Floyd and, you know, Floyd was probably one of the kindest persons you'll ever meet in your life. And he promoted love and peace. That's what he promoted. And if we are here standing for what he stood for, then that's exactly what the protest should be about.

CO: If you knew George Floyd, then you'd probably know how he would regard this reaction to his death. What would he say to what happened in the past three nights in the city of Minneapolis?

TP: He would be sickened. He would be proud of the fact that people were standing for him. And, you know, and that's just showing love and respect for him. But, you know, burning down businesses in a lower-income part of the city where people now can't go to the grocery store now, can't go to Target to get their medication, that would honestly sicken him.

CO: We heard, well, the tweet that Donald Trump issued about the protesters calling them thugs in capital letters, and he said when the looting starts, the shooting starts. What effect has that had on the reaction to the death of George Floyd?

TP: You know, like I said, I was raised by Southern grandparents, and my grandfather said to me one time, you are as ignorant as the person that's inciting the ignorance if you indulge in it. And the reality of it is, is that a lot of these structures, there's being cocktail-bombed and burned down, etc. If you look at the footage and you look at the videos, those are a lot of Caucasian males. So what I say is, well, maybe you calling the white boys thugs. I mean, honestly, that's what I would like to say. But the reality of it is, is we know what he meant. And that's just something that I'm not willing to engage in with him or anybody else. I have a job to do. I got a phone call at five o'clock this morning, a 72-year-old woman said, Tray, I don't know how I get my medication, only get one more day's worth. I don't have any toilet paper. I don't have any bread. Today, as I speak, I'm actually pulling up over here towards the third precinct. I have a truck full of canned goods, etc. that I boxed up throughout this morning. Got a lot of other community people that's just coming to volunteer and help. And so, again, that's exactly what my focus is going to be. And I’m going to try to do as much as I can within this window, because from what I understood, today, the governor is putting the curfew on the state of Minnesota at 8:00. So I have literally about three and a half, four hours maybe to try to give assistance to the people that need it the most in that area that was most hit, which is by the Third Precinct Police Department.

CO: Well, Tray, we'll let you get on with your work. And I appreciate speaking with you.

TP: Hey, thanks for the call. And I appreciate the time today.

CO: Take care.

TP: Bye.

CH: Tray Pollard is an activist in Minneapolis and the Founder and CEO of We Push for Peace. For more on this story, visit our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Bright acoustic guitar]

Larry Kramer obituary

Guest: Anthony Fauci

CH: The late Larry Kramer saw people dying all around him — and a U.S. government doing nothing to stop it. And he refused to accept that. In a 1990 interview with As It Happens, Mr. Kramer demanded an end to bureaucratic delays in the war against HIV/AIDS. And he talked about the group he'd founded, ACT UP.

CO: Back in 1988, he gave... He wrote an open letter to Dr. Anthony Fauci for the San Francisco Examiner, where he called you an incompetent idiot and a murderer.

AF: Yes.

CO: So how did you end up becoming friends, if that's how it began?

AF: I was very shocked at that. But it was so outrageous. I mean, you know, back then, to call a physician, a scientist with a very good reputation like me, a murderer and an incompetent idiot had never before been done. [chuckling] I was kind of surprised the San Francisco Examiner allowed it to happen. But they did. And he got my attention. And I said, wow, if this person is that angry with me and he doesn't even know who I am, except that I represent, in his mind, the federal government, which he had a real problem with because he felt they were not as responsive as they should have been, then there must be something that's very painful for him, but also is powerful enough to make him say that. So I reached out to him. And at first, the relationship was adversarial. And then it went from an adversarial to a non-adversarial acquaintance. And then from an acquaintance to a friend, and then over the years to a very, very dear friend.

CO: But he didn't stop attacking you, did he?

AF: No, no, no.

CO: I mean, I'm remembering that Ted Koppel, “Nightline” sceene where —

AF: Oh yeah, well, the Ted Koppel “Nightline” thing is such an emblematic story of what Larry is. Because even when we were really dear friends, because at that time, we used to call each other up very frequently. He would come down to Washington. And always when he did, he'd have dinner with me. I would go to New York, visit him in his Greenwich Village apartment. And I was also took a very active part in his medical care. I arranged for him to get his liver transplantation, which saved his life, even though he's HIV-infected, he was dying from liver failure because of chronic hepatitis B. So not only were we dear friends, but I was a person who was very close to him in his medical care. And in the midst of that, at one time, he, as he did in this clip that you just played, he was discouraged that not enough was being done again. So like about a week after, we had seen each other and was warm and friendly and loving as we always have been. We were both on the Ted Koppel show. And he gets up and starts just ripping into me for being ineffective and not doing enough for the AIDS effort and siding with the administration. And I was saying to myself, what is going on with this guy? [chuckling] So I said, well, you know, he must be mad at me for something. I really feel badly about that because I love the guy. So I got in the cab, went home to my house. I was in Washington, D.C. He was beaming in from a studio in New York City. And then when I got into my house about ten minutes later, the phone rang. And that was Larry Kramer. He said, hey, Tony, we really did well, didn't we? We really got the point across. And I said, Larry, you just trashed me in front of ten-million TV viewers. Why do you think that was a good thing? [CO cuckles] He says, ah, don’t worry about it. It worked out well. [CO laughs] But he got his point across. He got the attention he needed. And then he went back to being my dear friend.

CO: He hammered Ronald Reagan, he hammered George Bush, for ignoring or minimising the threat of HIV/AIDS. And he didn't spare Donald Trump, did he? And by extension, though, you were beside Donald Trump during these things that he called a terrible job handling the current COVID-19 pandemic. What did you say to him when he took you on for your role now in this White House?

AF: Yeah. You know, not as badly as during HIV. I think he saw that I was being very honest and open about the kinds of things we needed to do. So even though he didn't like my association with an administration that he didn't like, but he didn't blame me as much for that as back in the very early years of HIV/AIDS, when he knew that I was friends with President George H.W. Bush, who he didn't feel was doing enough. And I think that was a little bit unfair because George H.W. Bush really did increase considerably the budget for HIV. But Larry's solution to the problem, even though I had the opportunity of having, quote, an in the White House. Because I was quite friendly with the president at the time, he said, this is Larry said, said no, what you need to do is you need to chain yourself to the White House fence in protest of what George H.W. Bush is doing. And I said, Larry, are you crazy? [single laugh] I had the opportunity to have access to this person. If I chain myself to the fence of the White House, that will be the last time I'd have any influence in the White House. He said, it doesn't matter. You should just do it. It's good theatre. [laughing]

CO: Did he think though in your last conversations that you should have stood up to President Trump more frequently?

AF: No, no, no, not at all, because I did, as a matter of fact, as you know from history.

CO: So you're satisfied that you have no regrets, just on a personal level, how the U.S. has dealt with a pandemic?

AF: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're asking me a question. Was Larry angry with me for my role in COVD? No, he was not. Because he knew I was doing my best.

CO: No, I did change gears there to ask you if you have any regrets?

AF: You sure did. And I'm not going to comment on that. [both chuckle]

CO: All right. Can you just tell me your best memory, how you will remember your friend Larry Kramer?

AF: Oh, it's binary. I mean, I remember him as the firebrand who's demonstrating and getting arrested in front of the White House for his demonstrations. That's the same person that I could sit down and have dinner with, and he was kind of like a pussycat. You know, he was a very sensitive guy. You know, really very warm when he's not screaming and yelling and trying to tear down the houses.

CO: Dr. Fauci, I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

AF: It's my pleasure. Nice speaking with you.

CO: Bye.

CH: That was Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. We reached him in Bethesda, Maryland.

Strongman

BARBARA FRUM: Hi?

BF: Tremendous.

(BACKGROUND CHATTER AS WALTER CORNELIUS AND HIS WIFE TALK)

BF: There you are! (pause) Mr. Cornelius.

WC: (breathing heavily) Yes.

WC: Yes I can hear you! (breathing heavily)

WC: I’ve just run out of puff! (breathing heavily)

WC: Yes (unintelligible) I run four miles, you know that? (breathing heavily)

WC: I just run four miles, I went for run! Because I’m slimming, I want to get two-and-a-half stone away from my weight!

WC: Hmm.

WC: Pardon?

WC: Not mit rubber band, I’m going to do mit catapult!

WC: Oh yeah!

WC: About two months ago, I did one in a swimming pool. Similar, but not this way, not with catapult. I just run off the platform and just glide.

WC: And in 1970, you know, when I jumped off the Brierley’s roof in supermarket. 1970.

WC: Supermarket, I jumped off the Brierley’s roof, so the supermarket, jump -- I jumped down from roof.

WC: Oh, yes, I did! I broke five teeth, teeth, broken nose, and joints. Joints, you know joints, when I crack the joints?

WC: Yeah.

WC: NOOOOOO! Well, I’m not -- not that, American ones get a parachute. I don’t do, I don’t believe that -- if you go down, you’re going down. That’s why you do flying things, isn’t it?

WC: Yes, twenty strong men.

WC: Yeah.

WC: That’s the one, because -- but in meantime, we build a platform, you know, sort of platform going about 45 degrees up. And these men pull me down, and hook it, on sort of the hatch, you know, and then you let it go, and then shoots off.

WC: Yeah.

WC: Three hundred yards maybe, maybe further.

WC: Well, The Great Cornelius.

WC: Best stunt? Well, best stunt last year I won World’s Strongest Man, that’s the best stunt, in Japan!

WC: I pull two double-decker buses with my teeth, four people sitting in. Two double-decker bus, I pull with my teeth, 700 yards, in Japan.

WC: And then I lift a car, with my legs and arms, four men sitting in.

WC: Oh yes, I -- listen, in meantimes, I still have a -- I am the strongest man in the world! And I hold thirty-one world records in Guinness Book of Records.

WC: How I look? If you seen him, you know John Wayne?

BF: Yes.

BF: Mr. Cornelius, this latest trick with the catapult: is this dangerous? Are you risking your life, or do you not talk up death?

BF: Are you laying off beer, or what are you giving up on your diet?

BF: (laughing) Oh, you’re kidding.

BF: You’re puttin’ this whole thing on!

BF: (laughing) How do you eat grass?

BF: A little oil-and-vinegar dressing, or what?

BF: Who cuts the grass for you?

BF: Now, good luck to you!

BF: You bet your life.

BF: We’ll call you every day if you want.

BF: We’ll see you, eh?

BF: Bye.

[/sc]

CO: Jessica, what was it like to learn that your doctor is one who exposed people to COVID-19?

JESSICA DAY: It was upsetting. It was scary. It was disappointing because this is somebody that we're supposed to trust.

CO: And you’re in Quebec. But the doctor, well, this border is quite porous between New Brunswick in Quebec, where you are.

JD: Right.

CO: Where people like you get services on both sides.

JD: Right.

CO: There was a mandatory rule in place that people had to self-isolate if they were to cross that border. What does it say to you that your doctor didn't follow those rules?

JD: You know, it's frustrating because he's the one who's supposed to have the knowledge and the understanding of why these rules are in place. And for us, as you know, not medical professionals to be expected to understand this and be able to stay in place while he can just go about his life, and not even thinking twice about it. You know, it's frustrating. It's upsetting.

CO: And when you —

JD: I know I’ve used that word upsetting a lot. But that's genuinely my feelings about it.

CO: We know at this point is that at least 150 people have been exposed. The hospital in New Brunswick, in Campbellton, is closed. So that's pretty important to lose that. And there are people in intensive care, and one of the people that was infected was his own son. So how are people, you’re in Listiguj First Nation in Quebec, are many people patients of this doctor?

JD: There are quite a few people who are patients of his, but further than that, He also worked at the emergency department. The doctors would take their turn doing rounds. So even those who weren't patients of his, there's a lot of people who would have seen him in the emergency department. So that brings it up to quite a few people. You know, a majority of the people who've been in contact with him or been in contact directly with somebody who was in contact with him.

CO: Yeah, they haven't even begun to really trace all the people who may have been affected. He had a lot of a contact.

JD: Exactly.

CO: I understand you have not had a contact with him recently during this period.

JD: No.

CO: SO you're safe?

JD: No, no, I haven't.

CO: But your community, this is a First Nation, are being very concerned about the exposure to COVID-19. What are people saying in Listiguj today?

JD: Oh, there's a lot of anger. That's what I'm seeing. That's what I'm hearing. Just a lot of anger. A lot of people are really upset with him for we feel as though he's setting us back. As it is, it was stressful as it was trying to get across the border just to be able to access normal essentials for life. And this is we feel like it's put us back at least a couple of months of any type of advances we might have made. So there's a lot of anger towards him — specifically for this. And a lot of confusion regarding how we're going to go about medical treatment. We can't access the hospital if it's closed. We are not able to access the walk-in clinics. You know, a family doctor for a large portion of people is now gone. Our next closest option is good, 45 minutes to an hour away. You know, so people are kind of left, you know, running around trying to figure out what to do. People like myself and my son, we have prescriptions that are coming up due and we no longer have a physician to write those prescriptions for us, you know? And we're not able to just cross over and head over to the emergency department.

CO: And we're not naming this doctor.

JD: No.

CO: He has been suspended from his job, hasn't he?

JD: Right.

CO: Do you feel that that's sufficient?

JD: No, I don't feel that's sufficient. I feel what he did. I mean, ethically, it was wrong, but professionally, even more than that, it was wrong. And professionally, he needs to suffer the consequences for that. And I don't think suspension is enough. I mean, if he can't be trusted, you know, to behave for the better of the people, then he really probably shouldn't be doing what he’s doing.

CO: You know, the RCMP is investigating. We don't know if there are any charges that can be laid. Would you anticipate or expect that there might be?

JD: That's hard to say. I mean, I don't know if there's any specific laws regarding what happens if you do or do not self-quarantine? So I imagine if there are some laws in place that they might bring some charges, but that's not something I would... I wouldn't know 100 per cent.

CO: I presume he was able to cross the border between Quebec and New Brunswick because he had work on both sides.

JD: Right.

CO: He was in an essential service. What's it been like for you? What’s it like for those in Quebec, at that border, to try and cross into New Brunswick?

JD: It's been really difficult. It's been really difficult. One good thing I suppose that came out of it is that we really strengthened our relationship between Listigujt and Pointe-à-la-Croix. We basically just have a street separating the community. So that relationship's really been strengthened. We've really had to work together with the few businesses that are there to be able to support everybody. But in terms of being able to cross the border for anything else, it's been an absolute struggle. You know, we've heard the term shopping spree thrown a lot thrown around a lot. People saying at one point, they had arranged for some passes to limit the amount of people that were going across, the amount of time that they'd be there, to keep track of it. And we heard a lot of these passes, they don't give you the right to go for a two-hour shopping spree. And that was something that it's hard to hear when you have an elderly relative who has got diet restrictions, and you need to pick up proper bottles of Glucerna maybe, or, you know, their medication, proper food, or you have babies, too and three years old and you need diapers, you need Pull-Ups. And, you know, they're acting as if we're coming to shop for purses and shoes and to sit down and have coffee and we want to go to the gym. And that's not, you know, we want to be able to get supplies so that we can work on our gardens in the back and grow a few vegetables. We want to be able to put shoes on the kids feet now the winter's over and they've grown last year shoes. And we can't wait seven to ten days for a delivery for a pair of shoes. That's really been upsetting to a lot of us. All we want to do is just exist. There's… We feel like we're not being heard is what it is. It's like we're not being heard.

CO: And “we” is who are you referring to?

JD: Our community, our side of the bridge here, not just ourselves, but like I said, those in Pointe-à-la-Croix as well, because they relied on the services of New Brunswick as much as our community did.

CO: And does it seem that this doctor had the privilege of crossing that border in a way that you could not?

JD: Yeah, and I feel like he took advantage of it.

CO: Well, Jessica, I'm glad that you're healthy and okay. And I hope other people in your community are as well. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

JD: Absolutely. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

JD: Bye-bye.

CH: Jessica Day is a patient of a New Brunswick doctor who is believed to have passed COVID-19 to eight people. We reached her in Listiguj First Nation, Quebec.

COVID during pregnancy

SP: Yeah. So let's talk about that. The doctor said that they wanted you to have a C-section that was best. What was it like to be in the hospital at that time?

MH: It was pretty scary. We got escorted up to our room, and we weren't allowed to touch anything. We went to a private elevator. I've never felt so dirty and, like, contaminated in my entire life. But I just remember just holding my belly and just trying to hold my baby as close as I could. Meanwhile, he's still inside me.

SP: Um-hmm. And your husband couldn't be there, right, when Hank was born?

MH: He had to stay up in the room.

SP: Hmmm [said with a touch of sadness]

MH: Yeah. But then my anaesthesiologist was absolutely amazing. He was in like a full-on hazmat suit with, like a gas mask. And I remember him talking to me, and he'd make the sound like [imitates assisted breathing sound] like Darth Vader. [both laugh]

SP: And it all went okay then?

MH: It all went great. And they started the C-section, and then like probably like eight minutes later, I heard Baby Hank cry. And I got to see him from six feet away, because I wasn't allowed to hold him or touch him at that point.

SP: Wow!

MH: Yeah. And then I had to recover in the OR. And then when I got to go in the room, I saw Hank in Jeremy's arms. And it was such a great feeling.

[/sc]

CH: That's Revelstoke, BC's Michelle Hunter speaking to CBC host Sarah Penton — about giving birth to her son Hank, just days after she was diagnosed with COVID-19.

[Music: Jazz]

Laughing kookaburra

Guest: Farvardin Dalir

CH: Around the world, COVID-19 restrictions have produced an incalculable number of loaves of homemade sourdough, and an ever-increasing number of unfunny jokes about not wearing pants during Zoom meetings. But we're fairly confident to say that the global lockdown has birthed only one enormous kookaburra. Farvardin Daliri is an artist who used the enforced downtime to build the massive bird. Which is getting attention for its size. But also for its sound.

[sc]

[Sound: I am not sure how to describe this sound. It sounds kind of like the excited notes you’d here at the start of a children’s cereal commercial]

[/sc]

CH: That is the laugh of a giant kookaburra built by Farvardin Daliri. We reached him in Brisbane, Australia.

CO: Favardin, what does your kookaburra actually look like? Can you describe it?

FAVARDIN DALIRI: Looks like a kookaburra [laughing].

CO: Except for one distinct difference: it's huge.

FD: It's a bit big, yeah, yeah. He's huge. That is the only difference, [said while laughing] because I had to spend a lot of time to make it look like a kookaburra. So otherwise, you know, it wouldn't be good. You know, if you make something looks like something else. [CO laughs] But anyway, it's huge. It’s huge, yeah.

CO: How long did you work on this?

FD: Yeah, it took five months.

CO: Why did you set out to make a giant kookaburra?

FD: It was to be a mascot for the festival in Townsville. I have established this festival about 1995. So every year, I make a huge monument or a sculpture presenting different people and different animals, different cultural icons. And now we have a huge collection of them in Townsville that they line up as a parade. And this year, because of the lockdown situation, we have no option but the festival be only a parade that will disperse and then actually go to different parts of the city to keep the festival spirit alive while we can't get together in order of tens of thousands. When I was working on this during Christmas time, which is my only time that I can work on such things, I couldn't finish it because of its complexity and size. Then it was left in limbo. I didn't know what to do. And then when the lockdown situation has started, then I said, okay, I'll start working on finishing it up. Then came this idea, you know, look, it has to be laughing, because this is the only sculpture I did that actually laughs, because everything else is just a sculpture, [deeply laughing]

CO: And, of course, those of us in Canada, kookaburra is a very Australian bird, but we know the song, the song about the kookaburra laughs in the old gum tree. And the sound is absolutely extraordinary. Here's a taste of it.

[sc]

[Sound: The same laugh I described above]

[/sc]

How did you make that laughter happen?

FD: The laughter itself is not that difficult, because I have been built a sound system within the structure, actually under the log on, which the bird is sitting, underneath. [CO chuckles] But the movement of the jaw was much of a problem that I had to redesign. I had to make it such that it can move. You know, we don't have too much money about these things. And so it has to be done. So the secret is that I used the car’s screen wiper motor with a bit of a gearing and designed something that can move up and down. So that took a bit of time to make it happen at the very fairly cheap cost as well as effective [laughing].

CO: And so when you take your kookaburra out for a spin, then, and because you have it on a trailer, how do people react when they hear that crazy laughter?

FD: Oh, my God. [laughing] This is just one of those things that, you know, you got to see to, you know, feel it. But expression of surprise. And then first, denial, some times for a few seconds, total denial. You're looking at that guy, you know, was trying to give it away to someone who was driving outside of the driver, and then this guy says, okay, fine. And I stopped, and he's coming out and looking in the mirror, and then goes basically forwards a few metres. All of a sudden, he realizes actually what he has seen in the mirror. [much laughing] And then just like that. But some people, straight away, camera out, start taking photos and they line up. And then it becomes sometime the cause of, you know, people basically jumping on board the wall or the fence. So it is something that people don't expect to see every second day.

CO: [laughing] No, they don't. And so, of course, lots of pictures, and people have been posting them. That huge bird and that crazy laughter has gone around the world, millions of views. [FD laughs a lot] And did you ever think that that was going to have that reaction?

FD: When I was thinking of the laughter within the lockdown situation, I always had this intuitive feeling that we need something to laugh about. Then when I was drawing it, you know, a few weeks ago while I was designing, and my very supportive, wonderful neighbours always came and said, this is great. This is great. So and so on. And they can’t wait to see it finished. But I never expected this. You know, this is too much. [both laugh deeply

CO: I understand that not only have you attracted millions of eyeballs looking at your kookaburra, but I understand birds, other birds are actually drawn to this bird when it makes this sound.

FD: [laughing] As well. You know, the kookaburras come around. When they start hearing my bird singing, they start singing, too. And their population has also increase around this area. Early morning, you know, there was the sound, the loud sound of the kookaburra, and then my wife gets up saying, have you done that? No. [laughing] That’s not me. They’re actually real birds. [laughing deeply]

CO: What are your plans for your Kookaburra now? Because you can kind of drive it around that trailer, and you can get into I guess festivals and stuff. And is it just going to sit in your backyard after all this is over?

FD: Right now, we're thinking of laughing workshops. And we're basically fundraising to make it possible to organize group activities, going to the schools. We have been invited to so many places right now that we don't know how to handle that. Everybody says, I wish it was here. It was in Melbourne. It was a Gold Coast. No, it was in remote areas. So it seems that it has clicked with a lot of people that something like this will make them cheered up. And the commentary that comes from the social media as well, it's very encouraging. Someone says, look, it has made my day. I was basically hoping to see something to cheer up. And this has made it, so on and so forth. Anyway, we want to travel around the cities around the town. And usually, like last year, I did a giant, koala, same fashion, same thing.

CO: But there's nothing like this kookaburra and that laughter. It’s just a delight.

FD: No, exactly.

CO: Farvardin, I love speaking with you. And thank you for sharing your wonderful bird with us [both laughing]. Take care of yourself.

FD: You're welcome, Carol. Hello to everyone in Canada. I have some friends out there.

CO: I will say it to every single person I’m going to say hello to. All right. Take care. [both laughing]

FD: Wonderful. Nice talking to you, Carol. Take care. Cheers. [both still laughing]

CO: Bye.

FD: Bye.

CH: Farvardin Daliri is an artist who finished building a giant laughing kookaburra during lockdown. We reached him in Brisbane, Australia.

FOA: Boston Marathon runner

CH: If you're a politician with something to hide, you can breathe a sigh of relief. If you're a Canadian with an interest in the truth, it might be time for another sort of sigh. That's because Julie Van Dusen retired from the CBC's parliamentary bureau today. It's the end of an era marked by two sounds: the sound of power brokers panting as they tried to scurry away down the corridors of power, and the sound of Julie’s shoes in hot pursuit, as she pressed for answers to the questions we all wanted answered. Here is Julie Van Dusen at her final prime ministerial press conference today.

[Music: Folksy guitar]

CO: Well, Cassie, thank you for the work that you're doing. I know it's much appreciated by those you treat. And thank you for speaking with us.

CS: Thank you so much. Have a great day.

CO: Bye-bye.

CS: Bye.

CH: Cassie Smith is an occupational therapist at a Toronto hospital. We reached her in Toronto.

CH: Reed Scowen wasn't afraid to speak frankly about his home province. In 2007, he wrote, quote, "Francophone Quebeckers are nice people, but they're not Canadians. They've been trying to tell us this for the past forty years. Message received! Now it's time for us — and for them — to deal with the consequences." Unquote. Mr. Scowen, a proud Anglo-Quebecker, businessman and former politician, died yesterday. He was 88. For someone with divisive views about Quebec, he did, for a time, represent the province's interests abroad. In 1989, As It Happens spoke with him when he was serving as Quebec's delegate-general to London. Quebec was sending a large shipment of toxic chemical waste, known as PCBs, across the Atlantic to Wales. A proposal the people of Pontypool, Wales — and Greenpeace — were not crazy about. Here's host Michael Enright, speaking with Mr. Scowen.

CO: And you have 16 sled dogs, is that right?

TW: Yes, I got 16 here and 35 at home.

CO: Okay. Now, you have actually found a flight. [chuckling] You found a way to get home. Can you tell us about the plane that you may be returning to Norway in?

TW: Yeah, this is kind of the strange things in life that happens. But I think if you are positive, and you're looking for solutions, you know, things will actually happen. So what happened is I got a message with this article that were saying they cancelled the deal on buying a plane. And I was reading it. It was a museum in Norway that actually was buying one aeroplane, a cargo plane that used to be the old airline plane in Norway. And because of the COVID and the dollar was higher than Norwegian krones. So, you know, they canceled it. And then I called them, and I started talking to them, and said, my sponsor, maybe you can help me, you know, maybe you can make a deal with them. And so they actually made a deal with the museum. You know, suddenly everything just happened. [chuckling] And so I was kind of lucky.

CO: But are you at all concerned about flying on a plane that's an antique?

TW: Not really. I think this is one their, you know, four engines. It's one of those old proven planes. So I think it's going to be a long, loud flight. But I think it’s gonna be fun. It's going to be a nice ending. You know, with having this great dog team and this good story.

CO: So you'll be happy to go home. Have the dogs been enjoying their time in Alaska?

TW: I think dogs are a lot better than us, you know, to enjoy life and live in the moment and not worry what's going to happen around the corner. So, I think we have something to learn. So as long as, you know, you treat the dogs in a really good way and, you know, they get food and they get exercise and, you know, you’re doing fun things with them, they are happy.

CO: I wish we could be that relaxed.

TW: Yeah, me too. I'm working on it, [both chuckle] but it's amazing with the dogs, you know, it's how they can perform. And if, you know, if you keep them mentally high and you are able to give them the trust to just go on, it's just incredible what they can do.

CO: Well, Thomas, happy travels. I hope it is safe on that plane, and I appreciate speaking with you. Congratulations as well for your race.

TW: Yeah. Thank you. It was nice to speak to you.

CO: All right. Bye-bye.

TW: Bye-bye.

CH: Thomas Waerner, winner of this year's Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race. We reached him in Ester, Alaska.

Blue Jeans Mile

Guest: Johnny Gregorek

CH: When you're an elite runner, every little detail makes a difference. Shoes. Hydration. Wind speed. And the latest in aerodynamic running apparel. Running in moisture-wicking stretch fabric with enhanced ventilation can really help. Whereas running in blue jeans tends to make your performance less than optimal. But that's exactly what professional track-and-field athlete Johnny Gregorek is planning to do tomorrow. We reached Mr. Gregorek in Ardsley, New York — where he's gearing up for a run at the world's fastest-ever mile in denim.

CO: Johnny, just how much harder is it to run a mile in a pair of blue jeans?

JOHNNY GREGOREK: It's not too much harder. You know, if you're even running late for something and had to run fast in a pair of pants, then you know the feeling of racing in bluejeans pretty much. So it's kind of like a little bit more restriction to your to your stride. And you’re definitely a little bit warmer. But other than that, I don't think it's too much different than just racing in normal racing attire. So I'm excited.

CO: Have you tried it yet?

JG: I have, yeah, I've done some good training with the jeans on.

CO: [laughing] Are there a particular kind of jeans, type of jeans that work best for this?

JG: You know, I've been wearing Levi's model 501, so that's the kind of like, you know, it's not too tight and not too loose. It's kind of just your basic fit. And it just you know, provides not too much bagginess or weight, but it's also a little bit more form-fitting, so that I'm able to, you know, not feel like I'm being impeded in my stride or anything like that. So it's been a little bit of a... We did some research and looked into a few different things. And we wanted just that classic Levi's with the hundred percent cotton and all that. So [laughing] it's looking good.

CO: Now, of course, you could have cheated on this a little bit, because there are other kinds of blue jeans that have a bit of spandex in them, a bit more fitted.

JG: Yeah, exactly.

CO: You could have got away with that, but you didn't?

JG: [laughing] No, you know, I'm a purist, and I wanted to do this in 100 per cent denim. And, you know, if you break the record with some sort of advantage, you couldn't sleep at night, you know? So I was sure to get the real deal. And if I break the record, I'll be able to know that I did it fair and square.

CO: Spoken like a true pro. What about rolling up your cuffs? Is that a possibility?

JG: Yeah, yeah, I get to roll up the cuffs I think an inch above my ankle. So that's also a nice benefit to not get too much scraping up with my ankles.

CO: And what about wearing a belt?

JG: Yeah. I'll wear a belt as well. Nothing too heavy.

CO: Okay, for style, I would think you should do that.

JG: Yeah, that too.

CO: Just the look. Now —

JG: And so my pants don’t fall down.

CO: [laughing] How did this Blue Jeans Mile tradition get started?

JG: You know, a friend of mine in the professional learning community had created the event a few years ago, just as a gag, just to sort of spice things up and just for something to do. And. And I think that running always has had this sort of, you know, light-hearted nature within the community, at least. And it just kind of gained a little bit of traction from pro runners with people trying it out. And eventually, the current world record was run a couple of years ago, and it's 4:11. So I figured the race really didn't have any you know, it had kind of grown to a point where there was no awareness cause attached to it or anything like that. And I figured I could, you know, raise some awareness and have some fun with it and make it my own.

CO: In what way? What are you going to raise awareness for?

JG: Yeah. So May is Mental Health Awareness Month. So I guess we're kind of drawing it to an end here, and hopefully, finishing it off with a bang. But I've been raising funds for the National Alliance on Mental Illness, which is an organization that provides resources for those suffering from mental illnesses and their families and caretakers in the community at large. And so I think it's just important, you know, right now with this with all the isolation of the staying at home that's happening, people have a lot harder time getting those resources, and just a lot more strain on, you know, ailments they might be suffering from. So I just thought that this would be a great way to raise an awareness for that. And I think it has.

CO: And so you are going to attempt to break the record?

JG: I am. Yes, I'm going to attempt to run an all-out one-mile. Current record is 4:11. So I'm hoping to run a little bit faster than that. [laughing]

CO: Because the four-minute mile, I mean, that's the kind of legendary benchmark.

JG: Yeah.

CO: That was broken a long time ago. But now you're going to break the four-minute mile in bluejeans.

JG: Yeah. Yeah. I’ll definitely, you know, that's the primary goal is just to get the record. But I'll be running as fast as I can, and without the blues jeans on, I've broken four many times. So if all goes well, and you know, it doesn't impede me too much, then I don't see why it should stop me this time.

CO: Huh. And, of course, what you were hoping to be doing this summer was, well, working at the Olympics, right? So how strange does it feel to be doing this instead?

JG: It's definitely a tone shift from, you know, a month from now, we're going to the Olympic trials. And now we're waiting for 2021. And, you know, I had to reassess and set some new goals. But this has been a great way to stay in shape. And then, you know, also make some meaning with this free time that I've had and get something out of it. And you’re still getting that same feeling of a competition, of a race, of getting the best out of yourself. So I'm really grateful that I was able to have that throughout this past couple months. And, you know, and then hopefully there’s some real other races coming up in the August, September, October range. And I'll be able to partake in those.

CO: But this particular one is special for you, isn't it? SO will you be thinking of anyone while you're running?

JG: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah, I'm going to be running. And actually, the whole reason that myself, my wife, my family are involved with mental health awareness is I actually lost my own younger brother after a long struggle with his own depression and suffering from that and anxiety. And so we lost him a little over a year ago. And so it's primarily in his memory, in his honour. And, you know, he was a very fun-loving and adventurous guy. And obviously, loved running, as a lot of people in my family do. So it just seemed like a great way to, you know, commemorate him. And it would be something he would’ve enjoyed, so.

CO: Well, Johnny, I'm sorry for your loss. And I wish you success tomorrow.

JG: Thank you so much.

CO: All right. Take care. Bye-bye.

JG: Bye-bye.

CH: Johnny Gregorek is a professional runner in Ardsley, New York. Tomorrow, he'll be taking a stab at the world's fastest mile in 100% denim blue jeans. And you can find more on that story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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May 29, 2020 Episode Transcript

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