Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2020

The AIH Transcript for May 12, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Born into violence. A deadly attack on a maternity hospital in Afghanistan. A government official who was there tells us there'll be no forgetting or forgiving this attack.

CH: Not just how, but why. Police say they're doing a psychological autopsy on the man who killed 22 people in Nova Scotia last month. We reach a psychology professor in Halifax who says getting clearer answers could help those left behind.

CO: Generation gaps. The federal government promises help for older Canadians. It's a one time payment worth around $500. We ask the minister for seniors how that can help get through a pandemic.

CH: And it ends as quickly as it vegan. Canadian singer songwriter Bryan Adams says he's sorry for an Instagram post that blamed meat eaters in China for the cancellation of his concerts.

CO: She's not horsing around. We reach a Canadian marine biologist who has just picked up the world's leading animal conservation honour. It's for her decades protecting and studying the weird and wonderful ways of seahorses.

CH: And the costumer is always right. Our daily jaunt into the archives produces two men who enjoy dressing up as things they are not. Like, for example, asparagus. As It Happens. The Tuesday Edition. Radio that's not sure how the costume looks, but it sure smells funny.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Kabul maternity hospital attack must never be forgiven nor forgotten: security official

Kabul Hospital Attack

Guest: Javid Faisal

CH: In a country that's seen so many attacks on civilians, what happened today in Afghanistan set a horrific new low. Militants in Kabul went into a maternity hospital run by Doctors Without Borders and started shooting. Among the at least 16 dead are two newborn babies, their mothers, and a number of nurses. Dozens of other babies were carried out of the hospital. And pictures show the infants wrapped in blankets stained with blood. So far, no one has claimed responsibility. Javid Faisal is a spokesperson for Afghanistan's National Security Council. We reached him in Kabul.

CO: Mr. Faisal, I understand you have met some of the survivors of this attack at the Kabul hospital. Can you tell us how they're doing?

JAVID FAISAL: Today was a sad day for all of us, for the entire nation, but mainly for those who were stuck in that attack, those who lost loved ones in the attack. Some of the survivors, they are doing good today. Injuries are getting recovered, but then they have all been through a trauma and that's something that will be with them for a long long time, mainly with those mothers and the babies that were just born.

CO: This was a maternity hospital, is that right?

JF: It was a maternity hospital. And there were dozens of mothers who were preparing to give birth. And they were just born babies, dozens of them -- and sadly they were also the ones that lost lives to this terrorist attack. They were the first one to be shot dead by the terrorists.

CO: When you say shot dead. Can you tell us what happened in this attack? How did they get into the hospital and how did they do this attack on these people?

JF: They went into the hospital. It's surely a public place and nobody expects such kind of an attack there. And they opened fire at the women and babies before the national defense and security forces reached at the site of the attack and killed the terrorists and rescued more than 100 infants, mother, and medical staff.

CO: I saw pictures of your soldiers carrying newborn infants out of the hospital. They're wrapped in blankets with bloodstains on them. You could see in their faces what effect this had on them. How are you feeling emotionally about having seen this take place in a maternity hospital?

JF: We have been through so much pain and trauma. It's endless. We have seen terrorists killed, fathers in front of their young daughters and sons. We have seen mothers killed in front of children. Husbands killed by terrorists in front of their wives. But this time it was very very ruthless. It wasn't something anyone would expect. It's far from humanity. In all of that pain that we have in the trauma it's leaving an impact on us. They have gone against all these norms and values. This is a pain that will last forever. We are not going to forget this and we are not going to forgive this.

CO: You sound quite young, I'm guessing that you are, and that you have seen probably most of your life, you have seen these kinds of events and these kinds of killings. It must take its toll on you.

JF: I was born in 1992. It was when we were at war. The war that continues. So it has been there almost all of my life and it's really really hard. But we are a nation that will stand strong and continue to work for our resolve for peace.

CO: I'm going to repeat that you said that you were born in 1992 and your whole life you have seen these kinds of war and violence, but your country will stand strong. No one has claimed responsibility. Both Taliban and ISIS are operating in Kabul, Afghanistan. Is there any sense of who might have done this attack on the hospital?

JF: The violence has been continued by the Taliban. And they are the main source of violence. They are the ones responsible for the attacks on civilians.

CO: And so what damage do you think the Taliban, if they are responsible, that they did to their effort to try and have a peace agreement with the Afghan government?

JF: The problem is they have never shown any intent for peace. They have continued to have violence against the Afghan people. They have continued to kill Afghan people. That doesn't mean they want peace. Peace means there has to be calm. There has to be intent. There has to be actions that prove peace. Taliban are killing civilians, they are attacking our structure, attacking our army and the police. And that's all violence.

CO: Mr. Faisal, we'll leave it there. I know it's very late and you have had a long and difficult day. And I appreciate you speaking with us tonight. Thank you.

JF: Thank you. My day continues. Thank you.

CO: Good night.

CH: Javid Faisal is a spokesperson for Afghanistan's National Security Council. We reached him in Kabul and you can find more on that story on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

COVID Seniors Aid

Guest: Deb Schulte

CH: Older Canadians made Justin Trudeau's pandemic pay out list today. This morning in Ottawa, the prime minister announced that seniors will get a one time payment of up to $500 to help them make ends meet.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: COVID-19 has been taking its toll on seniors, both emotionally and financially. And with today's announcement, our government is taking action to alleviate some of the stress they may be feeling. But there's a lot more work to be done, not only to find short term fixes, but long term solutions. COVID-19 has exposed some uncomfortable truths about our society, including how we care for seniors in Canada. We've seen heartbreaking tragedies in long term care facilities and nursing homes right across the country. Overworked staff, understaffed residences, grieving families. There are serious underlying challenges facing these facilities. And in the coming months, the federal government will be there to help the provinces find lasting solutions.

CH: That was Prime Minister Justin Trudeau this morning in Ottawa. Deb Schulte is the federal Minister for Seniors. We reached Minister Schulte in Ottawa.

CO: Minister Schulte those were fine words from the prime minister, and then he tells us that it is going to be $500 one-time only payment for seniors. How far is that really going to go?

DEB SCHULTE: So you know I just want to make sure that seniors know that the government has been focused on their needs and their safety and their financial security since the beginning of the pandemic. The first thing we did in April, low to moderate income seniors would have seen on average $375 for singles and $510 for couples in their bank accounts. And now we are introducing a second payment for those that are on OAS and an additional payment of $200 for those that are on guaranteed income supplement. So you're right, it's $500 for those that are on guaranteed income supplement. And for a couple, that's a thousand dollars. And you add that to the previous GST credit, which would have been about $510. Now we're talking about over $1,500 dollars for seniors to help them out.

CO: But when you talk about old age security, people who are on fixed incomes and we all know how much more expensive it is to try and function in this time of pandemic. The seniors advocacy group CARP has said they've seen the savings of seniors, whatever they have has dwindled. They've lost the free and discounted services they took advantage of. They are taking taxis because they really shouldn't be on public transport. All these things are very expensive. So, again, the $500...I say 1,250, but how can that really cover what these people are losing?

DS: So people need to remember that the seniors have been continuing to receive their benefits during this pandemic. So they are still getting their pensions and their guaranteed income supplement and their old age security. So these are additional amounts to cover those, as you mentioned, increases in costs, specifically with COVID-19 pandemic. So I just want to make it clear there is 6.7 million seniors that are on OAS and will be getting this enhanced payment and a further $200 for seniors that are on guaranteed income supplement and that's 2.2 million seniors. So adding that to the four million seniors that got the GST top up, that's a significant number of seniors that have seen direct financial benefit.

CO: If nothing else, the pandemic has torn back the curtain on how we treat our seniors, hasn't it? And this is what the prime minister was mentioning that the long term care facilities, the appalling conditions, the underfunding, understaffing of those facilities. And then the prime minister says that he will support the provinces as they try and deal with this. Where is the federal government in its commitment to change the situation in those appalling homes?

DS: Well, as you heard the prime minister say, you know, we are supporting the provinces and territories. It is the regulation of these facilities, their jurisdiction. So we started off very early in helping with the guidelines to be able to have a consistent approach across the country using the best science. And we worked with the provinces and territories to develop those and deliver those. We also worked very early 24/7 to make sure in this tough environment to acquire the protective equipment that is necessary to keep people safe in those facilities.

CO: But minister we know what the problem is -- it is that these facilities are understaffed. The cost per person is is just appallingly low and that these people are dying in these homes. And so I think what Canadians want to see -- they don't whose responsibility it is, and don't want to see the buck being passed back and forth, whether it's province or feds -- they want to see someone step up and do something about that. So what's the federal government going to do to improve the conditions in those homes?

DS: So the federal government has stepped up directly to support the provinces and territories who are working very hard to ensure...

CO: Well minister that sounds like buck passing to me.

DS: Well, it's not. It's not at all. We're approaching this with a team Canada approach, and that is what I expect Canadians will want. Nobody should be pointing fingers. Everybody should be working together to make sure that our seniors are safe, and save lives. And that's what we've been focused on doing. There will be time, as the prime minister has said, to look at those cracks that have appeared and those issues that you've already mentioned in terms of, you know, staffing, facilities, protocols, all of these things need to be addressed. But the time right now is to solve the problems. As you see, we have been there every turn with protective equipment, with money, we put half a billion dollars into the provinces and territories right off the bat to help them with the public health response on the COVID-19. We've put money on the table for wage subsidy to try to help that disparity that you've already raised. So these are the things that the federal government's been doing the minute there was an issue we've been there to support. We've also, as you know, brought in the military where we've been asked to bring resources to the table.

CO: All right. But just when you talk about bringing the military in to try and help seniors. I mean, that is more than cracks that have appeared, isn't it, minister? So the question stands is that why not bring long term care under the Canada Health Act and take this as seriously as we take other forms of health care at other levels? Why not treat seniors the way we treat others in the medical system?

DS: So we definitely, as you said, have seen opportunities for significant improvement. And these will be discussions that will be had with provinces and territories as we move forward.

CO: We'll leave it there Minister Schulte. Thank you.

DS: Thank you very much. Appreciate the opportunity.

CH: Deb Schulte is the federal Minister for Seniors. We reached her in Ottawa.

[Music]

Costumes

CH: As It Happens focuses on the present. After all, we're a current affairs program. But that doesn't mean we don't love a good costume drama. Tonight, we have two starting with a guy who's really kind of a stock character. I don't mean he was dull. I mean he was literally a stock. And for most people, he was entirely too colourful...too green specifically. When Carol spoke with Gus "The Asparagus Man" three years ago, a lot of people were upset with him. He had just completed the annual St. George's Day procession to mark the start of the British Asparagus Festival. And he had done so in full costume as an asparagus spear. Here's their conversation from April of 2017.

CO: Gus, can you tell us why you were dressed as an asparagus spear at church on Sunday?

GUS THE ASPARAGUS MAN: On Sunday we were celebrating the start of the British Asparagus Festival, which is a festival that runs from the 23rd of April through to the 21st of June. And on the 23rd of April on what we call the “launch day” we always have quite a big celebration about it as is the start of the asparagus season. And each year, we take a big round of asparagus to somewhere different. We've been to many places over the years. We've been to Buckingham Palace to take asparagus to the Queen. We've been to Parliament in London and many other times around the country. But this year, as a special celebration this year we have been awarded a special food status for asparagus —a protected food status, which is quite a high award for a vegetable.

CO: So you've been all these places as an asparagus spear. What were you doing at the cathedral on Sunday?

GA: Well, we were at the cathedral on Sunday to give thanksgiving for the asparagus. So for one of the region's most famous products the Vale of Evesham asparagus and it was a wonderful and happy event and everyone who attended did so with great reverence.

CO: And so can you tell us how it went on? What did you actually do? There is a picture of you coming down the aisle of the church.

GA: You’ve obviously seen the picture. Now that was at the start. It was a normal even song service and that was the start where we process down behind the Canon to the altar where he would bless the asparagus. And then after that, we just became part of the congregation.

CO: Okay, so what I’m looking at the Canon’s coming down towards the altar. Behind him is somebody carrying a very large bundle.

GA: That is the chairman of the British Asparagus Festival carrying the best of the best asparagus.

CO: And then behind him, I presume it is you?

GA: There’s me and St. George as on Sunday it was St. George's Day here.

CO: So Gus, can you tell us why this became so controversial?

GA: Well, we've actually been to Brussels, so we only heard about it when we were on the way back that this is all sort of put out of proportion because some people seem to be offended by the sight of the asparagus and the big green man. And I think they thought he didn't actually belong there for some reason.

CO: Well they went further than that. A group known as “Christian Concern” said this is an absurd pantomime-type scene that makes a mockery of Christian worship. Another good “Bishop Cranmer Blog”, a theologian Adrian Hilton said it was an infantile pantomime and it brought the Church of England into disrepute. There were those who said it was Monty Python-esque. Quite extreme criticism of I guess you being in this precession. How do you feel about that?

GA: I’m not upset, but a bit disconcerted why there should be such a reaction? Basically all these people that are saying this, they weren't there. That's the problem.

CO: Well, obviously that the Church felt it was worthy of such a service and so why is asparagus so important to your community?

GA: Well, asparagus is a vegetable that has been grown in the Vale of Evesham for many years and it has been quite part of the horticultural heritage of the area.

CO: And how long have you been dressing up as an asparagus spear?

GA: I have been Gus the Asparagus Man since 2008.

CO: You've traveled a great deal as Asparagus man?

GA: I have been all over. It has made my world bigger and now, this week, we have actually been to Brussels to the European Parliament.

CO: And how did people in Brussels respond to you as Gus the Asparagus?

GA: Before we heard about this going on here, when we were in Brussels. It was one of the best trips I've been on. And I was received very warmly in Brussels and amazingly enough, a lot of people knew who I was.

CO: So what are people at your own church at — your cathedral — what are they saying about all this controversy?

GA: There's like two sides to this I think. You get sort of traditionalists who sort of don’t like the change I think. And then you get the more modern outlook where they want to have a little bit of change and something a bit different.

CO: What do you do when you're not being Asparagus Man?

GA: I am a farmer for my day job, believe it or not.

CO: I think that's very believable. Anyway, I've never spoken to Asparagus Man before. Good to talk to you, Gus. Thank you.

GA: That was good. Bye now.

CO: Bye.

CH: From 2017, Carol speaking with Gus "The Asparagus Man." Our second costume story is about a guy who went out wearing things that wore his son out. Although Dale Price's intentions were good, mostly. In what must be the most elaborate dad joke ever the Utah men wore a different costume every day for months to wave at his teenage son's schoolbus. Carol spoke with Dale Price in June of 2011.

CO: Dale, what on earth did your son do to deserve this?

DALE PRICE: You know what he did? He loved me. And that's what he did. And that's what he gets when he loves me cause I love him back. And so I'm going to show it in these weird ways.

CO: Did you warn him first before you started wearing the costumes? [Chuckles]

DALE PRICE: Absolutely not. He had no idea it was done on a whim and it just kind of started. So he was a little shocked.

CO: On the first day when you pulled this on him, what was the costume you were wearing?

DALE PRICE: Well, the very first day, actually, there was no costume. We just realized suddenly that the school bus was driving in front of our house and that had never happened before. And they changed the bus route. And so what happened was my wife came in and told me. So I ran out with my wife and we waved at him the very first day. And so he was trying to hide his face because he had two parents standing out there at the curb waving at him.

CO: [Laughs] So did he tell you, don't do that anymore?

DALE PRICE: Yeah. [Chuckles] Then he came back home and I overheard him telling my wife to please, please, please don't let dad go out there and wave at me again. And when I heard that, you know, that meant that the game was on. Really? You don't want that? This is what's going to happen. I love you son. Here you go. [Chuckles] So there it began.

CO: [Chuckles] What was your first outfit?

DALE PRICE: It was a football jersey and helmet.

CO: So you started off simple?

DALE PRICE: Very simple. Yes. I thought it was just going to be a short term thing with a crazy had some crazy shirts and that was it might be over.

CO: All right. [Chuckles] So tell us some of the more outrageous things you wore over those months.

DALE PRICE: Well, you know, the Wonderwoman was definitely an eye opener. It was my wife's costumes. So she was really thrilled with that. The wedding dress, that's a popular one. Probably the most popular is the toilet. When I put the toilet in front of the house and sat on it with my pants around my ankles and was reading a newspaper, that one was pretty neat, getting a lot of comments.

CO: How about your mermaid?

DALE PRICE: Yeah. I'm not one of my favorites. Had I known that, I would have exercised for about six years before that. [Chuckles] But definitely that one is getting a lot of views. Just trying to be Ariel. I figured I have no pride left so I might as well just do it.

CO: [Laughs] Did you have any themes? I'm just wondering if that chicken or stork, whatever it was, you wearing it with the eggs, was that Easter something?

DALE PRICE: No, no. It's just a chicken suit that a neighbour came up with. When I ran low on costumes, I just kind of put out the call to the neighbourhood and said, anybody have anything around that I can use? And you would be shocked by the things the neighbours have hiding in their closets because I was. So that's where that came from. So I just threw it on. Here's the chicken suit. Okay let's use that. The wedding dress was the same thing. You know, just people were helping out, they wanted to be a part of it. It was fun.

CO: And Princess Leia, was that another neighbour who contributed to that?

DALE PRICE: A neighbour had Princess Leia so I did that and tried to do a little Star Wars theme there.

CO: So 170 days. You did this to your son?

DALE PRICE: Yes. 170 days.

CO: [Chuckles] How did he react?

DALE PRICE: You know, by the last couple of months, he was fine with it. It was some of the things were shocking. The Ariel mermaid outfit definitely got his eyebrows going up, but he understood the fun of it and understood why I did it for him. He's a great kid. He's a straight-A student and marches in the band. And we have a great relationship, we are great friends. And he just took it for what it was and just enjoyed it. Now he threatens to do it to his kids.

CO: Just the marching -- you did have a marching band outfit there as well.

DALE PRICE: Yes. And that marching band outfit was from the band that he's in. It was one of their old vintage uniforms they let me use. So that was actually a big hit on schoolbus.

CO: Was there much anticipation every day? Everyone wanting to know what you'd come up with?

DALE PRICE: Every day kids would walk from the farther away bus stops just so they could get on and see what was going to happen. My son told me the bus driver would just tell them when they got on the bus "Well, get ready for the show." And so you drive down there, drive by nice and slow. So it was really anticipated and really enjoyed.

CO: So the school year is over?

DALE PRICE: It is. It ended last Thursday.

CO: What was your last outfit?

DALE PRICE: It was just a pirate. If you haven't noticed in the pictures, I use a peg leg. And so the the pirate I've had for years because I am all of the built in pirate so I just used that.

CO: You lost your leg in a motorcycle accident, is that right?

DALE PRICE: I did. I was in a motorcycle accident 19 years ago.

CO: So now, do you have plans for next year? What you're going to do?

DALE PRICE: Right now, he's not planning on riding the bus. If he was, I would do it again. But he has some friends that he is going to carpool, that kind of thing. So if he's not riding the bus, I don't know if I'm going to do it, but I may do some cameos. Maybe wave at the wife as she goes to work.

CO: [Laughs] Your work's not done, is it?

DALE PRICE: Oh, no. [Chuckles] You just kind of enjoy life and laugh about things.

CO: Well, Dale, it's good to have a laugh with you. I appreciate it. Thank you.

DALE PRICE: It was wonderful talking to you.

CH: From 2011, that was Carol speaking with Dale Price, a Utah man who wore a different costume every day to greet his son, schoolbus and great on his son's nerves.

[Music]

Part 2: Nova Scotia Psychological Autopsy

Nova Scotia Psychological Autopsy

Guest: Simon Sherry

CH: Overnight, in mid April, 22 people were killed in a string of shooting and arson attacks. And weeks later, the mass killing in Nova Scotia is still all but impossible to fathom. The murders finally ended when police killed the attacker Gabriel Wortman. Now the RCMP will conduct what's called a psychological autopsy to try to figure out why he did what he did. Simon Sherry is a psychologist and the head of Dalhousie University's personality research team. We reached him in Halifax.

CO: Professor Sherry, you live and you work in Nova Scotia, what questions are people still wanting answers to about Gabriel Wortman and his possible motives?

SIMON SHERRY: Questions about motive abound. And with that, there is a lot of speculation and a lot of that speculation unfolds according to well-worn scripts. One would be that initially he was a nice guy and everyone expressed surprise. Subsequently, the narrative morphs into you as some sort of aberrant, mentally ill person who snapped. The point is that without a proper psychological autopsy, we're left with a lot of unchecked speculation.

CO: So what exactly is the psychological autopsy that the RCMP saying they now want to conduct?

SS: It's a systematic method to understand the psychological and the contextual situations that happen before a suicide or a homicide.

CO: What is the information, the evidence, that they'll be seeking?

SS: So during a psychological autopsy, you're going to look at all available records that might include something like medical records. Some attention might be paid to death scenes. In addition, diaries, emails, social media, Internet usage would be explored. And in particular, a psychological autopsy is going to focus on collateral interviews with knowledgeable informants. Put differently, they're going to spend a lot of time talking to people who have useful in-depth knowledge about the shooter. And they're going to look at the personality traits of the shooter, whether or not that shooter suffered from symptoms like depression, anxiety, psychosis and so forth. They're going to look at life stressors and whether or not there were possibly any warning signs in advance of the shooting. They'd also consider other factors like did the shooter have access to lethal means, including guns and other weapons? They're going to look at motive and intention, whether medication was a factor. And there may also be consideration of downstream or distel factors like did events in childhood in any way influence the shooter and his motives?

CO: They will be able to go deeply into his profile where they have access to records, to medical records, to health records, they will be able to subpoena people, to be witnesses and to be questioned. Will they have all those powers?

SS: That I'm not aware of. To me, that seems more like a privacy and a legal question. But I can tell you from a psychological perspective, the more evidence and information you have available to you, the more reliable and valid the conclusion you will reach will be.

CO: But also, it limits what they will actually share with the public, does it not?

SS: I'm not sure what actually ends up happening to this document. But in my view, it should be shared with the public, at least in substantial ways. And I believe that that's part of using these horrific events and directing them toward prevention.

CO: We know the killer attacked his common law partner at the start of this string of violence. So it seems domestic violence was a big piece of this and sort of launching it. So that was a suggestion that it was the beginning of this. So what more does one need to know?

SS: I will say that roughly 57 to 60 percent of mass shootings seem to begin with some sort of domestic violence. And I think that questions around domestic violence and misogyny should definitely be part of this investigation. Beyond that, there's a lot that you would want to know about the personality traits of the individual who engaged in these actions. Here, I do not speak specifically about the shooter because that would be speculative. But at this point, unfortunately, there are more than 160 mass shootings that have been studied. And out of that, you start to get a sense of the personality traits that are involved. You'll see, for example, that people who engage in mass shootings tend to be very vengeful. They tend to be people who perceive a lot of flights and wrongdoings. They tend to look externally finding problems in other people as opposed to problems residing within themselves. And they're often referred to in one way or another as people who collect grievances and they catalog them throughout the course of their life. Those traits then seem to have to combine with some sort of a stressor, a triggering or precipitating event. Oftentimes that can be a job loss or some sort of romantic or relationship problem.

CO: Just indulge me in an anecdote. I was living in Montreal during the massacre at Ecole Polytechnique. And within a week, Quebec reporters had dug into Marc Lepine's, who was dead at that point, past. They had interviewed his friends, his teachers, his family. There were court documents about his parents divorce that the Police contributed. And they put together a really comprehensive portrait of who Marc Lepine was very dark parts of it. And it seemed that it was very helpful for a very deeply traumatized city of Montreal to know all that in the process of healing. Do you think that knowing more about Gabriel Wortman would be helpful to people in Nova Scotia?

SS: Yes I do. I think that the events that happened in around Portapique are almost unfathomable at this point. And I think an important aspect of grief is making meaning. So I do see something like a psychological autopsy as making a contribution to that recovery for Nova Scotians and beyond. My very sincere hope in a psychological autopsy is also that we can derive some incremental change from these events. There is no single insight or law or policy that's going to entirely come from this that would prevent future mass shootings. But if we could move things forward such that the risk of these events occurring was lowered based on what we learned from Portapique, I think that would be an excellent outcome.

CO: Professor Sherry, we'll leave it there. This has been very helpful. Thank you.

SS: I'm glad to be of help.

CH: Simon Sherry is a psychologist at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

[Music]

Martine Girard

CH: For women in Quebec, facing intimate partner violence, COVID-19 restrictions have made finding safety more complicated than usual. Under the province's current public health guidelines, a woman must quarantine with her children for 14 days before entering a shelter. Advocates say these women may be reluctant to try and enter a shelter because of the mandatory quarantine requirements. So they're calling on the government to give these shelters priority access to COVID-19 tests. Martine Girard is a spokesperson for an association that represents 43 shelters across Quebec. She spoke with CBC Montreal's Leah Hendry.

MARTINE GIRARD: In the shelter where it's possible they've mad quarantine spaces, so the new women coming from outside have a place so they don't contaminate, if she has the virus or not. But it's a challenge for shelters because when the women call and ask for shelter, we have to explain to them what are the measures we put in to make sure that everybody's safe. And for our safety, as well as the safety of the worker and their resource Often women are very reluctant to come and think okay I'm going to be 14 days in a room with my two children, won't be able to go out like I want to go out. It's something where they it's better to stay where I am for now. And what we are trying to ask from the government is for all the women coming into the shelter to have them tested to make sure they don't have COVID. So if they have a test, they don't need to do the quarantine. So they are going to be more happy to come and they're going to come more quickly to our shelter, because now they're not coming. And for us, it's worrying because we are sure that some women and children are in danger. And we want to help, but we have to get them out of their violent situation.

CH: Martine Girard is a spokesperson for more than 40 women's shelters in Quebec. She spoke with CBC Montreal's Leah Hendry.

[Music]

Seahorses Professor Prize

Guest: Amanda Vincent

CH: It is as close as one gets to a Nobel Prize in animal conservation. That's how Amanda Vincent described the Indianapolis Prize. The British Columbia marine biologist has been a finalist for the award twice in recent years. And today it was announced that she's this year's winner. It follows decades of work and research to protect seahorses. The prize is worth $250,000 US. We reached Amanda Vincent in Vancouver.

CO: Amanda, first of all, big congratulations to you.

AMANDA VINCENT: Thank you, it's pretty darned exciting. This is the top prize in my field globally. So I feel it's as close as I am ever going to get a Nobel Prize. [Laughs]

CH: I understand you had to keep this award a secret from people. How did your kids react when you told them about it?

AV: Oh, they were pretty excited. And it made sense to them because I dragged them out to the Philippines in February just before COVID went mad and they couldn't understand why we were rushing out to do a filming trip but it was to get ready for this.

CO: Did you tell them or did you even have to keep that a secret?

AV: I had to keep that a secret. So we went out and did some filming. But they had no idea that I had won this award.

CO: And so what did they say when you told them?

AV: Oh, they're ecstatic. Really really happy and thrilled. And then I was saying it's a bit sad because we can't celebrate in the normal way. And so they've been busy making lecterns for me to give talks to them at home and setting up cheerful disco lights in the basement. And I gather we're going to have a party tonight at the home. [Laughs]

CO: That's lovely. Can you go back to when you first thought seahorses? I need to know more about these creatures.

AV: I can. Because the idea was to understand male pregnancy. In seahorses only the male gets pregnant. And that's just riveting. It's the most extreme example of male parental care we know. And so I was interested in the evolution of sex differences. And this obviously raised some pretty interesting questions. And then, you know, that transitioned into conservation work.

CO: The male seahorses have the babies?

AV: They do. The female transfers eggs into the males pouch on his abdomen, his brood pouch, and he fertilizes them in his brood pouch, which means we know he's the father, which is not the case most male animals. And perhaps consequent on that, he provides a lot of parental care. Changing the pouch environment, providing placental fluid. And eventually he goes into a full-blown labour release young.

CO: Wow. And all this starts in his brood pouch?

AV: Yeah. So that's where it all started. And then I'd always had a sort of save the words world fervor. And while I was finishing up my Phd in Britain, I saw an electronic billboard in Germany that said "Seahorses are the most valuable exports from the Philippines to help men with weak tails." I translate literally. So I was intrigued by this, of course, and started exploring the world to understand seahorse trade. And that led to understanding a lot of other threats, but also finding solutions most importantly.

CO: Seahorses are also part of so-called medicinal things, they are use for treatments of some sort.

AV: Yeah. Seahorses are used as aquarium display fishes and for traditional medicines and for curiosities and souvenirs. And we don't get into value judgments. Quarter of the world's population depends on traditional medicine and it's codified forms of medicine. So we worry more about sustainable use than about judging how people use the product themselves.

CO: What's the biggest threat for seahorses then?

AV: The biggest single threat to seahorses is bottom trawling. It's a form of fishing where you drop heavily weighted nets on the bottom and you scrape the bottom so you're gouging and scouring, leaving a trail of real damage habitats behind you, but also scooping up everything in the path indiscriminately. So imagine if we did that on land where we literally dropped razor wires and trimmed off every bit of vegetation at or below soil level and picked up every butterfly, bird and mammal on route and then to make it worse. And most of the world now they catch is undifferentiated catch is reduced to food for aquaculture, food for chickens, food for animals, often just pennies per kilogram. And you know, that sounds quite bad enough. Then you realize most of those fisheries lose money. Governments are giving the money to stay afloat, no pun intended and worse in quite a few areas of the world, because the crews on these vessels are actually is are forced labour or slave labour. So it's just a devastation anyway, you look at it. We call it annihilation fishing. And that's the biggest single threat to seahorses but also, as you can imagine, Carol, to thousands of other marine species and their habitats.

CO: Well, I can see why you are an effective advocate for seahorses. And this is why you have won this award, in part because of how you have been able to affect government policy. What is your greatest accomplishment, do you think, in changing the way the governments treat, seahorses and protect them?

AV: Well, I think on a more local scale, we've set up 35 marine protected areas that are fully implemented by communities in the Philippines where we're getting good fish recovery. But on a global scale, we've worked a lot with the United Nations on a convention that regulates international trade and wildlife, both animals and plants. And that convention, which involves 182 countries, had refused to engage with marine fishers. There was just an active concern about regulating exports. We managed to break that open. So the first ever marine fishers, for which there were global export controls, where the seahorses and that meant that 182 countries now have to prove that their exports are not damaging wild populations and they are legally sourced. Having done that, which was really exciting, we set precedent. And since then, we have managed to get the same export regulations in place for sharks and rays and European eels and some coral reef fish and so on. So, I mean, that was pretty splendid, actually reshaping the international instrument for regulating export trade.

CO: And this is what led to this Indianapolis Prize.

AV: It was one part of it. We've done a lot of different things, a lot of different ways. And I think probably the prize was granted because we grab every opportunity we can see and we mix research and management. So everything we learn, we apply to management policy and then that guides our research and we take responsibility for closing that loop. We've done it, of course, with, you know, huge numbers of collaborators and partners and, you know, bless my wonderful team. And so I think we don't get bogged down in problems. You know, my mantra is, okay, that's a problem, but what's the solution? Where do we go from here? What are we gonna do differently? And that seems to have led us into really good places.

CO: When you think about seahorses and you've actually studied them in the wild. You've gone down and looked at them in the water. What is it you love so much about them?

AV: Oh my bliss. Oh let's see...it's very zen. So when you're watching a seahorse, you cannot hurry them along. They form these permanent pairs that dance together every morning and promenade and pirouette and change colours and then eventually rise through the water column and transfer the eggs from female to male. And it's just so incredibly mellow and absolutely beautiful. The last time I saw it was in France. It just captivates me every time. So if the going gets tough in the management and policy and you just I think this is worth it, think of those gorgeous creatures. And we're hoping that, you know, they can inspire many people to care about the ocean. And this is where the Indianapolis Prizes is a treasure because it gives us this platform to talk to even more people.

CO: Well, I doubt that the seahorses know how much you have done on their behalf, but obviously they've had a great effect on you too. Amanda, it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

AV: [Chuckles] Thank you so much for your interest Carol.

CH: Amanda Vincent is the director of Project Seahorse and a professor at UBS Institute for the Oceans and Fisheries. She's won this year's Indianapolis Prize for her conservation work. We reached her in Vancouver.

[Music]

Bryan Adams

CH: Bryan Adams knows this pandemic is hard on all of us because it means we can't see Bryan Adams. The good news is he's generously sharing his music. The bad news is he's also generously sharing his thoughts. Yesterday, Bryan Adams marked what would have been the start of a series of shows at London's Royal Albert Hall with an Instagram post in which he performed "Cuts Like a Knife." In the post, he said that since he's just a rock guy and not an epidemiologist, he would simply offer a humble message of solidarity with the world. Just kidding. He actually complained that we don't get to see Bryan Adams concerts and that he doesn't get to play Bryan Adams concerts. And he blamed "bat eating, virus making, greedy bastards." Well, that's obviously racist. It's also factually incorrect. No one made the virus. And it's incoherent. I mean, is he saying it came from bats or a lab? I mean, come on, Bryan Adams. We expect more clarity from the guy who wrote "Run to You" which is a song about running to someone. Well, now, Bryan Adams has posted the exact apology you would expect, quote, "Apologies to any and all that took offense to my posting yesterday. No excuses." And then by way of excuse, he explained that he'd just wanted to draw attention to animal cruelty in wet markets and promote veganism. Also in a kind gesture, he played another Bryan Adams song. So the good news is he can still sing. The bad news is when he's not singing, he's tone deaf.

[Music]

Alan Guy

CH: On the lawn outside Mississauga's Camilla Care community are 50 white crosses, one for each resident who has died there since the coronavirus outbreak began. One of those crosses bears the name of Mary Guy, an 83 year old resident there who died last week. Her son, Alan Guy, wasn't able to see her after she got sick or to say goodbye. Mr. Guy says that lack of communication also extended to staff. After initially receiving regular updates, he says the calls eventually stopped. In fact, according to Mr. Guy, the only call he received came the day following his mom's death when he was asked to make arrangements to pick up her belongings. Alan Guy shared his frustration with CBC Toronto.

ALAN GUY: The other issue was she had pneumonia. She had fluid in her lungs. She had trouble breathing. If she had problems like that in the home, we were never told. They never said that. You know, mom's having a hard time, these are things we're concerned about -- we didn't get any of that. We got, we'll call you in a couple of days. We never got a call. And we still haven't got a call. The hardest part for me is not being able see her. I saw my dad. He passed away, but I got a chance, me and my mom, to view him. My mom was all I had left. My dad passed, my two brothers passed. I have a sister in Newfoundland I only see when I go to Newfoundland. And I was me and my wife, mostly my wife, taking care of my mom and seeing her on my way to work or on my way home from work. And for six weeks I never got to see her. And I still never got to see her when she passed away. So this is as much closure as I'm going to get. I think it really really connected when I was seeing all the crosses on Saturday. You know, you hear all the things oh well there's 30 people, there's 40 people, 50 people. And you say wow holy moly. Or there's a 100 with cases. But actually, when we're putting up these crosses, I split back out afterwards, and I'm thinking to myself "That's a lot of people." But I think what makes it worse for everybody is the lack of communication. At least let people know what's going on. Good or bad, we can take it. It may be hard, but not knowing is the worst part. And not being talked to, that's the worst part.

CH: That was Alan Guy whose mother, Mary, is one of 50 residents at a Mississauga long term care home who've died during the coronavirus outbreak. In a statement, Camilla Care Community says its commitment to keeping family members informed remains a priority. The statement reads in part, quote, "Anytime a resident's health status changes, a team member reaches out directly to the designated family member and provides information."

[Music]

Part 3: Why this Toronto restaurateur is creating an alternative to delivery apps

Telabortions

Guest: Shandhini Raidoo

CH: If you hadn't used telemedicine before the pandemic, you probably used it since just to get some medical advice without having to physically go to the doctor's office. Well, recently, The New York Times had an article about a telemedicine program in the US that it says is seeing a growing interest during this health crisis. It's called Telabortion. It's a research program that allows women in some states to get an abortion without having to go to an abortion clinic. Dr. Shandhini Raidoo is an obgyn in Hawaii who works at a clinic that is part of this program. We reached her in Honolulu.

CO: Dr. Raidoo, how much demand are you seeing for Telabortion during this pandemic?

SHANDHINI RAIDOO: We're definitely seeing an increase in interest in Telabortion as patients are little more reluctant to travel and little more concerned about coming into a clinic and potentially being exposed and contracting the virus.

CO: In addition to that, are there new restrictions in some states during the lockdown and the pandemic to make it more difficult to obtain abortions in some parts?

SR: Definitely. In most parts of the country, we've moved towards doing mostly essential medical services. And some states have taken this opportunity to enact legislation to make it so that people cannot have abortions because they've deemed them nonessential services.

CO: Can you just tell us how Telabortion works? What exactly does it do?

SR: So when someone is interested in a Telabortion, they sometimes find our services on the Internet or may be referred when they called to a clinic or a participating organization. They go through a prescreening process where someone explains the process to them and confirms that they are likely early enough in the pregnancy to have a total abortion. They then go through a video evaluation with a health care provider who is licensed in the state in which they are. And that health care provider confirms that they are eligible to have a tele-medcine abortion. They have an ultrasound and bloodwork to confirm that their pregnancy is 70 days or earlier, which is the time through which people can have a telemedicine, abortion and then a package containing the mifepristone and misoprostol medications and instructions for use are mailed to the patient. Someone follows up with them in about 7 to 14 days to confirm that they were able to take the medications and that the process went well for them.

CO: And so the ultrasound and the blood work is something they do independently? They have to go to see a doctor to have that done I guess.

SR: For some of them they're able to coordinate with their local primary care physician or obgyn physician or health care provider. For others, the provider who is doing their video evaluation they're sometimes able to order those things to be done at a lab or an ultrasound facility close to them.

CO: Do you have any numbers as to how many women in the United States have had these packages of these drugs from Telabortion mail to them?

SR: As of April 2020, over 800 packages were mailed to people across the United States.

CO: And that stat is over what period of time?

SR: The Telabortion projects began in late 2016.

CO: There are severe restrictions to access to abortion in many parts of the states, as we were just talking about. So are there places where you cannot obtain these drugs, you cannot use Telabortion services?

SR: Yes. Some states have laws specifically against telemedicine practice for abortion. And so people are not able to do video evaluations with a provider to get their medications.

CO: Do women who live in the states where you cannot do telemedicine for an abortion, are they still able to use your services?

SR: The person has to be in a state where the health care provider is licensed. So for most people, that is the home state in which they live. But there may be instances in which they are able to travel to a state close by where they are then located in the state or the health care provider can provide those services to them.

CO: Do you believe or know that some women are doing that?

SR: We certainly heard that some women are doing this. I don't know any specific numbers or tracking exactly how many.

CO: Just give us a sense of the women with stories. And anecdotally, you're hearing from women who are accessing the service from abortion.

SR: For me here in Hawaii, it varies pretty widely. For many people, geography is a major factor. In our state, we're pretty unique in that we're separated by islands and the ocean. So you have to be able to take a flight to get to the nearest abortion facility. Privacy and confidentiality are also extremely important. Many people live in small communities where if they were to go to a local clinic or a health care provider, they may encounter people that they know and may not be able to keep their medical care as private as they would like.

CO: Are there complications that require medical assistance that some women have after taking these drugs?

SR: The complication rate for medical abortion is extremely low. Before we send someone medications, we confirm with them that they know what the potential warning signs are to look out for and that they know the location of their closest medical or emergency care facility if they were to need assistance.

CO: But is it the case that some women, after taking these drugs, need to get assistance and need to go to emergency wards?

SR: A small number do most commonly it is because they may be experiencing more bleeding than is typical, but the complications that have been experience have been able to be managed by local health care providers in a very standard fashion.

CO: And can you be sure that they're able to get medical assistance if something goes wrong?

SR: Like I said, we confirm with them that they know where their closest medical facilities are. They're able to contact the health care providers throughout the process. So they're able to let us know if they are experiencing anything that is concerning to them. And we can recommend to them that they go to a facility nearby if needed.

CO: And if they could do that and they are in a state where it's not legal to have Telabortion, they've gotten some place to get it, are there ramifications for them?

SR: Abortion is legal in every state in this country and emergency facilities are required to provide emergency care. So complications that may be related to medical abortion are very similar to those of someone who may have been doing a medication abortion after receiving medications in a clinic from a physician or someone who is experiencing a miscarriage or their body is passing in pregnancy naturally.

CO: Dr. Raidoo I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SR: You're welcome.

CH: Dr. Shandhini Raidoo is an obgyn in Hawaii. We reached her in Honolulu.

[Music]

Toronto Food Delivery

Guest: Roger Yang

CH: Roger Yang certainly is not the first restaurant owner to complain about the shortcomings of corporate delivery services. But just weeks after signing on with one, he decided to do more than complain. He decided to pull the plug. And is now working to create a restaurant run delivery service of his own. We reached Roger Yang in Toronto.

CO: Roger, we've heard complaints about these delivery services from restaurant owners over the years. So what were your experiences?

ROGER YANG: Well, we started with Uber Eats since we wanted to do delivery during the pandemic and we expected that they would help with marketing and help with getting new customers. But what we found was that we were just handing our customers over to Uber. And I mean, the commissions are one thing we thought that would be a bit of a tradeoff, but we didn't really benefit. So between orders where, you know, a cyclist would carry our pizza sideways, and by the time it got to the customer, it was a little mangled. The high costs and the invisibility, I think what got us the most, though, was that being on Uber depersonalises the restaurant. So why would we pay so much to them? We figured, you know, we can do that ourselves.

CO: Wow. So what benefit would you like to get out of it? What did you think you were going to get by doing Uber Eats?

RY: I mean, it was a quick and easy way to get delivery started, and it's a way to do a bit of test marketing, I guess. We put on our social media, we announced that we're doing it and we see how many orders come in. But that's really the only benefit we got from it.

CO: Now, Uber Eats says it's been doing a lot to help restaurants during the pandemic. And they said it allows them to opt into a program that pays out daily instead of weekly. And it's offering marketing support. It's waiving some delivery fees. Did any of these benefits pass to you?

RY: No. The delivery fee waving I think it's not all onboard. They have a serious fee on them at delivery. So the service fee is 10 percent. The delivery fee is a couple of dollars. So waiving a couple dollars, but they're still trying to service fees with customers. So that doesn't benefit the restaurant anyway and it barely benefits the customer.

CO: Now you have an idea, you have a plan that you're going to try and put out in order to rely on your own service. Describe that for us.

RY: Yeah, the challenge with the small business doing our own delivery is that we don't have enough scale to really do it really efficiently. It's still costing us less on our own to do it than through Uber, but we can do it a lot better if we work with other restaurants. So for example, a group of three restaurants with a team of cyclists and drivers would become a lot more efficient because there's fewer peaks and valleys. And I think that's a model that our industry needs to have for delivery to work. We need to have that control over our image. We need to be able to communicate with our customers. I think that's essential, not just during the pandemic, but in the long term. Delivery was already becoming a bigger thing and the pandemic kind of accelerated that and it made it blindingly obvious that delivery is super important. I mean, right now it's basically the only thing other than a bit of takeout. So in the long term, we're still going to do a lot of delivery and we'll need to have solutions that make it work for the restaurants. Otherwise, we risk a slow death.

CO: How would your cyclists and drivers, how would that be different than using these cyclists and drivers of a delivery service?

RY: They would be employees rather than gig-workers. So we would pay hourly wage. We'd make sure that they have proper insurance, proper equipment so a bag that carries a pizza properly, for example. [Chuckles] And they have that relationship with the customer too. I've been doing some of the delivery myself, and I find that just having that quick 'Hello' even though we're keeping our distance, the customers appreciate it so much. And it's nice to be able to tell everyone else about that. And it really helps the whole team to feel more about what we're doing and how it's benefiting people. It's not just a random person bringing them food. It's somebody who has a connection to the restaurant, who works for the restaurant, not a contractor for this faceless corporation.

CO: And what success have you had in getting other restaurants to join you in this venture?

RY: We're in early talks. We've got a number of other restaurants that have strong interests. Everyone who uses the delivery apps complains about them. And it's been happening for quite a while. Commissions are the obvious part. The large cut that they take and I think everyone's seeing it more and more clearly that this needs to be done.

CO: And you think you can coordinate things enough with a handful of other restaurants that there won't be infighting, you'll be able to work this out and that it won't become just another headache for you?

RY: Yeah, there's still some definitely will be some challenges to get it going. But I think that working on that system and making sure it's fair to everybody will be critically important.

CO: We just saw recently Foodora, which is a delivery company as well as more or less left the scene after workers demanded better conditions. They say that wasn't the reason. And now oUber Eats, you're describing something that you can't be the only one who is going through that. Do you think that that business model, the kind of delivery service using these gig workers, is maybe going to have some hard times in the future?

RY: And I'd like to see them completely replaced. I think they're exploitative both to the restaurants and to the workers. And I think that there is enough margin to be able to pay people properly to have the right kind of working conditions and to have it be at a reasonable cost restaurant.

CO: All right, Roger, we'll be watching. Thank you.

RY: All right. Thank you.

CH: Roger Yang owns Pizzeria Du and Avello Restaurant, both in Toronto, and that's where we reached him. We also reached out to Uber Eats regarding Mr. Yang's criticisms. In a statement, the company said it had waived activation fees during the COVID-19 pandemic and, quote, "Increased flexibility so restaurants can choose from three options, including no fees for pickup orders, a reduced 15 percent fee for restaurants who choose to use their own delivery people or full service with delivery people available on the Uber Eats platform." For more on this story and the response from Uber Eats visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Update: Ron Kore

CH: Now an update on a story we told you last month. An Ontario, town councillor says he's learned his lesson about staying home when he's sick during this pandemic. Ron Kore is a grocery store owner and councillor in the town of Pelham. He was accused of attending a council meeting and showing up for work at the store while visibly sick. A councillor who was at a meeting with Mr Korps later died of COVID-19, although it can't be said for certain that Mr. Kore was the one who passed it on to his colleague. In a statement, Ron Kore says he, quote, "Regrets coming to work while experiencing flu like symptoms". He also writes that he, quote, "Now realizes that some of my decisions and the optics around them were imperfect. And I am very sorry for this." Local police have opted not to investigate, saying a criminal inquiry would not be appropriate.

[Music]

Invasive Jellyfish

Guest: Jamileh Javidpour

CH: For years, the feeding habits of the comb jellyfish have confused scientists. The invasive jellyfish are predators and they typically feed on plankton and other small marine organisms. But now a team of researchers say they may have figured out how the jellyfish are able to survive in tough times. Jamileh Javidpour is a lead author on a new study about the jellyfish is feeding habits. We reached her in Kiel, Germany.

CO: Jamileh why was it so important to find out how these jellyfish were surviving?

JAMILEH JAVIDPOUR: Because this comb jelly is a very famous example of invasive species that spread in many areas with different types of ecosystems in a short time. There were some dedicated features into this species, like the very high growth rate they reproduce and huge amount of larvae.

CO: It's a very busy creatures when it comes to reproduction. [Laughter]

CO: You found out something very specific, very unusual, I suppose, about how they're surviving with scarce food. What are they eating?

JJ: We call them omnivore. They can eat a huge range of prey -- even smaller animals in the water. However, feeding on their own larvae was not detected before.

CO: When you say feeding on their own larvae, you mean eating their own?

JJ: Yes, exactly.

CO: They're cannibals.

JJ: They're cannibal. So in general, they can feed on fish eggs, larvae, but also fish food like plankton. And in that period of time when they don't have anything to eat, they can feed on their own larvae.

CO: Well, is it normal behavior or is it a sign of stress that they're eating their offspring?

JJ: It wasn't for the first time that we detected it. So it was not for us kind of normal behaviour. And also back to that phyla and that level of animals, we have cannibalism in the higher animals like fish and the squids, but not in jellyfish. Jellyfish could feed on other jellyfish types like we have jellyfish predators that selectively prey on other type of jellyfish, but not on their own larvae. So it was kind of new to us.

CO: If you found that they're cannibals, I mean, if do they do they eat each other or just their kids?

JJ: In this specific study we found that they feed on their own larvae when they produce offsprings, but they can also eat on other jellyfish, which was not part of this study.

CO: What does it tell you about their ability to survive that they are eating their offspring?

JJ: It shows how resilient they are. And that makes sense to be invasive in that level. It shows that they can switch to have this kind of trait, this kind of behaviour in that group, which was not detected. But it gives us a little bit of insight into evolutionary path that this animal's gone in the last million years of surviving in different period of earth -- planet earth's history.

CO: Because they're very old creatures, aren't they?

JJ: Exactly. And that story might give us a little bit of a new inside the evolutionary path.

CO: There are animals all the way up to large mammals, even like humans who have been known to to cannibalize their own. Can you trace it back to something as basic as these jellyfish?

JJ: And that's what we hope. So that is the new research that should be done to, first of all, understand the set of factors that trigger cannibalism in jellyfish. And the second move might be to understand the genetic basis for this behaviour.

CO: If their own spawn is part of their food chain, if that's what they're eating, aren't they sort of helping to control their own population? Does it actually work that they can control their breeding by eating their own?

JJ: That is possible. And we have to also bear in mind that this simple animal doesn't have a reservoir for energy. So they feed voraciously in the time when they have good food, enough food in summer, but they put this energy toward producing a huge amount of offspring. And then for the time when the food is scarce, they switch to feed on that offspring that they produce some weeks ago, just to overcome the harsh period of time. In what extent cannibals might contribute to the entire population control, is still not clear to us because we know that there are just adults that go to to overwintering period. So it's not larvae that contributes to the next generation of the next year summer they are adults.

CO: But then it must be incredibly difficult to control them. This is a highly invasive species. I mean, this sounds like you are up against a very difficult creature.

JJ: They are. And there are also some stories behind like in the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea, they were blamed for contribution to the collapse of fishery in that areas so therefore conservationist and ecosystem managers should also consider cannibalism as behaviour that might help to overcome a harsh period of time for this creature, which makes them, again, invasiveness.

CO: Jamileh good work and pretty scary stuff, but thank you.

JJ: Thank you for interviewing me.

CH: Jamileh Javidpour assistant professor at the University of Southern Denmark. We reached her in Kiel, Germany. And we have more on the jellyfish on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

George Watsky

CH: First, a warning: what you about to hear is mesmerizing. You might find yourself entering a kind of fascinated trance. My advice is to just give in. Yes, when heard in its entirety, it is not entirely safe for work. But on the upside, it is safe to work from home because you're the boss. Last week, San Francisco rapper George Watsky set out to surpass the current world record for longest continuous freestyle rap. His plan was to rhyme for 33 hours, 33 minutes and 33 seconds straight from his couch with the odd off camera but on-mic bathroom break. And we can say this much: He did that. Sure, one could see the results as a mind bruising affront to the art of freestyling. Rhymes were made that should never have been made. Straws were grasped, at, as was the Scrabble dictionary on more than one occasion. And he did spend some time reading his own, but on a perhaps overly complicated 100 point scale. But after many hours, an almost magical transformation took place. A guy rapping terribly from his coach became nothing short of a stirring tribute to the fortitude of the human spirit. And perhaps most of all, a testament to the power of quantity over quality. From 14 hours and 41 minutes in, here's a little slice.

GEORGE WATSKY: [Rapping] Feeling this momentum. I can't repent um. Doing my damn thing. Just gotta sling. All these ill rhymes. Doing these crimes. Feeling like a monk fish. Feeling pretty monkish. All of this damn monotony hasn't quite yet got to me. I'm no philanderer. I will not hand to your lawyer any damn discriminating, incriminating evidence that you want to come at me with the ill (censor bleep). I got to fill this cup up till I fill this Red Bull in my soul. I'm just Will Smith not. I'm like the opposite of whatever he's got man. He's great. He's the dude I respect so much. But I cannot fill up another morsel parcel because you know that I are still on this mic and I won't stop till dawn. And even after that, I'll keep going on. I am phenomenon go till dawn.

CH: San Francisco rapper George Wwatsky, who did that for over 33 hours to break the world record for longest continuous freestyle rap.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

May 12, 2020 Episode Transcript

More Stories Like This