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Uncover Season 5: Sharmini – Behind Bars

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[Crickets chirping and footsteps]

VOICE 1: On March 20^th…

VOICE 2: Run!

[Heavy breathing and running]

VOICE 1: ..only one movie experience this year will make you afraid to breathe.

VOICE 3: You won’t survive.

VOICE 2: We have to try.

VOICE 1: A Quiet Place: Part II. In theatres March 20^th. Tickets on sale now.

[Music]

ANNOUNCER: This is a CBC original podcast.

MICHELLE SHEPHARD: Shall we-- let's leave-- let's leave all the equipment we didn't specify. So I will leave my phone, laptop. Maybe in the trunk.

ILINA GHOSH: I’m gonna put my phone in there, do you want me to--

MICHELLE: Oh, yeah. If you can put my phone in there, I'm just gonna put my laptop under your seat so it's out of sight. Would be kind of ironic to have your car broken into at a prison.

[Footsteps]

[Door opening]

MICHELLE: Hi how are you?

GUARD: I’m okay, yourself?

MICHELLE: Good. Do you want me to put stuff on the belt?

GUARD: Sure.

MICHELLE: Okay

GUARD: Who are ya’ here to see?

MICHELLE: Stanley Tippett.

GUARD: Oh. Okay.

MICHELLE: You know that name?

GUARD: Oh yeah.

[Music]

REPORTER 1: Sharmini left home that morning go to a brand new job. We have not been able to find that job she was going to.

VOICE 1: He was very manipulative. He was very deceptive. And he thought that he could be charming and could just convince us that we were wrong.

REPORTER 2: Another bizarre twist today at the Peterborough courthouse. That's where 32 year old Stanley Tippett made his first court appearance accused of abducting and sexually assaulting a 12 year old girl.

MICHELLE: I guess the question is, do you believe him?

HAIG DERUSHA: I'm prepared to assume Stanley is telling the truth. And I think everyone should.

VOICE 2: Never, ever have I met a man like Stanley Tippett.

[Music]

MICHELLE: I’m Michelle Shepard and this is Uncover: Sharmini. Chapter 4, Behind Bars.

[Music]

MICHELLE: I've been to a number of prisons over the years for interviews, and most of the time you have to spend weeks, sometimes even months going back and forth with officials to negotiate access. I was even part of a two-year court challenge against Corrections Canada because they denied me access to an inmate who wanted to tell his story. So let's just say it's usually not easy to get inside.

[Door opening]

MICHELLE: But this time it was.

VOICE 3: I respect that you guys are here to do a podcast. Does that sound right?

MICHELLE: That sounds right.

Really easy, actually. And everybody was incredibly helpful.

[Ringing]

VOICE 4 [ON PHONE]: Good morning, Warkworth Institution. Bonjour.

MICHELLE: Oh, hi. I’m trying to reach Sandra O'Reilly, please?

VOICE 4 [ON PHONE]: Just a moment and I'll transfer your call. Thanks.

MICHELLE: So we just had to work out a few logistics.

SANDRA O’REILLY: Sandra speaking.

MICHELLE: Oh, hi, Sandra. It's Michelle Shephard.

Of course, Stanley Tippett had to agree to the interview. So I sent off a request. Stanley Tippett was only a suspect in Sharmini’s murder. He was questioned but he was never charged. Tippett is in prison though. After Sharmini’s death he was convicted of three offenses, including the sexual assault of a 12 year old girl. He's been declared a dangerous offender. He can apply for parole, but in all likelihood he's never getting out.

[Music]

MICHELLE: Okay, so I'm actually going to record this in case we use it for broadcast at some point.

SUSAN ANDERSON: OK.

MICHELLE: To my surprise just days after I sent my request to interview Tippett I get an email from his mom Susan Anderson.

But thanks for reaching out to me. I was actually surprised to get your e-mail because I don't actually think we met years ago when I was writing about your son. But I was curious how you knew how I was trying to talk to him.

SUSAN: My son gave me your name.

MICHELLE: OK. OK.

SUSAN: Stanley had given me your name. So he told me to try to reach out to you.

MICHELLE: Right. OK. So what was it that you wanted to talk about?

SUSAN: Well, seeing as, like, Stanley’s been convicted of-- I feel like he didn’t do it.

MICHELLE: Our connection isn't great. And Susan, like her son, has Treacher Collins so her speech is affected.

SUSAN: I'm having trouble hearing you.

MICHELLE: Sure. I can speak up a little too.

SUSAN: Yeah. ‘Cause I wear hearing aids so I don't hear very good.

MICHELLE: Susan wants to talk about what she says is Tippett’s wrongful conviction., She didn't believe her son at first but now she says there's evidence to prove he did not kidnap and sexually assault that 12 year old girl in Peterborough.

SUSAN: Well, you know, I've been talking to him and I believe him.

MICHELLE: Right. Tell me just a little bit about him. Like, tell me what Stanley was like as a kid and in the years since.

SUSAN: When he was a little boy, well even when he was like 12 and 13 years old, he loved to work.

You know, everybody loved him, you know. And he was always a good worker, like, you know.

MICHELLE: Right.

SUSAN: And had a good heart. Like, you know, he loved his little brother, you know.

MICHELLE: Did you have any problems with him growing up?

SUSAN: Well there's—like, I didn't really have any problem with him, like…

You know, like, he which well-behaved and the only problem I had was when other kids were bullying him.

MICHELLE: How did he react.

SUSAN: Well he used to get upset, you know, and, you know, get beat up. And I always had to get the police involved, you know.

MICHELLE: Right.

Their lives were chaotic. There was violence, alcohol abuse, and poverty. More than one member of the family has had run ins with the law.

I think he moved to Oshawa about two weeks before Sharmini disappeared and that case started. What was that like? I know it's 20 years ago, but what do you remember.

SUSAN: Stanley told me he had nothing to do with it. So I believed him. I don't really remember too much about it but all I know is that he said he had nothing to do with it. But I don't know…

MICHELLE: Why do you say that?

SUSAN: So I asked him straight out, did you have anything to do with it?

MICHELLE: This part is a little hard to make out. What Susan is saying here is that she asked her son directly. “Did you have anything to do with Sharmini's disappearance?”

SUSAN: I said, why would that girl’s mom think that you are taking her for a job interview.

MICHELLE: Why would Sharmini’s mom think you were taking her to a job?

SUSAN: Well I asked him, like I say, was you anywhere near there? And he say no, he wasn’t anywhere near there. I asked him, where were you? And he say he wasn’t anywhere near that.

So I don't know.

MICHELLE: What do you think-- I mean, that was as I said 20 years ago, I know it was a long time ago. But what do you think today?

SUSAN: Like, today, I still don't know. Like, I kind of wish I knew.

MICHELLE: You still have a little bit of doubt, you wonder.

SUSAN: Yeah, well, you know, I want to believe my son’s innocent but it's kind of hard to picture, you know?

[Doors opening]

MICHELLE: We've done all we can to find out about Tippett. Now we have to talk to him directly.

[Music]

MICHELLE: So we're just waiting for him to come in and they've put us in the visitors area.

[Music]

[Crickets chirping and footsteps]

VOICE 1: On March 20^th…

VOICE 2: Run!

[Heavy breathing and running]

VOICE 1: ..only one movie experience this year will make you afraid to breathe.

VOICE 3: You won’t survive.

VOICE 2: We have to try.

VOICE 1: A Quiet Place: Part II. In theatres March 20^th. Tickets on sale now.

[Music]

MICHELLE: Hi.

STANLEY TIPPETT: Hi.

MICHELLE: How are you?

Do you remember me?

STANLEY: Yes, Michelle.

MICHELLE: 20 years.

STANLEY: Yes.

MICHELLE: Let me introduce you to everybody. This is Ilina.

STANLEY: Hi.

MICHELLE: This is Stanley. This is Kathleen…

To our surprise, Tippett just saunters into the visiting area. He's alone. No guards, no shackles, no handcuffs. He looks almost shy and he's soft spoken. There is nothing menacing about him in the way he talks, walks, or presents himself.

So you know we are are doing a podcast.

STANLEY: Can I just to speak to you for one second.

MICHELLE: With me? Sure.

Tippett pulls me away from the others and speaks in a low voice. Our microphone doesn't pick up much but Tippett is basically setting down his ground rules.

He tells me he won't talk about Sharmini. He won't even say her name. He calls it the “Don Mills incident”. He only wants to talk about what he says is his wrongful conviction. The Peterborough sexual assault of the 12 year old girl. His third conviction, and the most serious one.

Why don't we just sit down and talk

STANLEY: Okay.

MICHELLE: And we can talk about everything that you just mentioned. And if I get into some area that you don't want to talk about or, as you say, your lawyers have told you not to, then you just don't answer. Does that work, is that OK?

STANLEY: Yeah.

MICHELLE: OK. OK.

You want us to explain the equipment a little bit just so you're aware of what it is?

STANLEY: Yeah. Why, what’s the video camera…

Yeah, well I-- I-- I felt that it was really important to-- basically to let the public know, like, I want the public to know about what's going on in the justice system. They truly believe that I was the suspect, I was the one who, you know, was responsible. So they were focusing on me, only me. And…and I just I felt like I was just, you know, I wasn't being treated at all fairly. And what happened…

MICHELLE: Before coming here, we talked a lot about how to approach Tippett. What to ask him and how. His psychiatric profile describes him as a sensation seeker, an impulsive individual with a personality disorder. He's duplicitous, in other words a chronic liar, and he's a narcissist. In his years as a homicide detective, Matt Crone has also thought a lot about how to question people.

If you did have that chance to sit down with him, what would be one of the first things you said?

MATT CRONE: Part of my frustration is this guy just doesn't operate on the same level as you and me and I don't think that there's anything that you could offer him or anything that you could do that would get to the truth of this. I just don't think there's a shred of shame or humanity in him. And I say that without a grain of malicious sacraments. I think that's my calculated assessment of who he is.

MICHELLE: We had three hours and really, we just wanted Tippett to keep talking.

Just tell me a little bit about yourself and your childhood.

STANLEY: I grew up with my-- I grew up with a single parent. My mom, you know, in government housing. I grew up with two brothers, one younger and one older, and I had a somewhat difficult childhood mostly because of my facial deformities and my disability. I was ridiculed a lot because of the way I look and because I was different. There were times that, you know, I got bullied a lot at school and at hom. I was in special education for the hearing impaired and for the deaf.

MICHELLE: Do you think that sometimes people, aside from the bullying which must've been difficult,

do you think sometimes people underestimated you too?

STANLEY: Well I, um, I would say that I'm fairly intelligent. I feel that I do have good social skills. I-- I've done some stupid things in my life and I'm not proud of it. But overall, when people look at me I, you know, if you look at the things that I've done in my past, I don't-- that doesn't make me a bad person. If you really look at the whole, the whole picture.

MICHELLE: Let’s just look at a little bit of that.

I have timelines and questions written out along with articles and photos in a series of file folders, but I don't look at them. Not for the first couple of hours. I worry if I challenge him, he'll just walk out.

Do you ever get targeted because of either the Treacher Collins—

STANLEY: I get targeted all the time, every day. So, yeah. I've been assaulted numerous times, segregated from other inmates because, due to the nature of the charges, no one wants to know that this person did something to children and especially when it comes to children, the less-- the more vulnerable ones that can't defend themselves. So, you know—

MICHELLE: So it's partly your-- you've been targeted because of the convictions that you've had as well.

STANLEY: Mostly yes. But a lot of it too, it's a combination because of the way I look. They judge me. They judge me. They look at me and they say, you know, look at him, that creep, you know. He's guilty just, you know, just look at the head on him, and they make comments like that. And-- and unfortunately a lot of people jump on that bandwagon and just continue.

MICHELLE: It's not hard to believe that Tippett has been targeted in prison. The abuse he has endured because of his Treacher Collins would undoubtedly continue here. Plus, there's a hierarchy among inmates and those accused of sexually assaulting children are the most despised. But it becomes clear that Tippett regards himself as a victim in all aspects of his life.

STANLEY: Now the harassment in Collingwood, it was in Collingwood…

MICHELLE: This was the case involving his neighbour. He pleaded guilty to criminal harassment.

STANLEY: I wouldn't say it was harassment, what I did. I, um, that was a situation where the woman, the complainant in that case, she made allegations. Well, let me-- let me explain what-- how it came about.

MICHELLE: This is Tippett’s version of what went down in Collingwood. It was his neighbor who first came to him and his wife.

STANLEY: She came over, introduced herself.

MICHELLE: She wanted to borrow a typewriter and needed help with some documents about the custody of her son.

STANLEY: And as I was putting my kids to bed she told my wife-- she disclosed to my wife that she had a problem. And that she inherited this problem from her mother. She said that she had a problem going after married men. So--

MICHELLE: So she was-- had a problem and was pursuing you.

STANLEY: She just said in general to my wife that she had a problem pursuing married men.

MICHELLE: She couldn't help herself.

STANLEY: She couldn't help herself because that's what her mother did and she said…

MICHELLE: He says the neighbour was actually the one watching him and his wife.

STANLEY: Every day, she was watching me come and go. As me and my wife were going out, she was going to the door and I didn't know what she was doing. But it seemed like she was keeping track of when I was coming, when I was going. And later on, I found out that she was keeping a log and saying that I was stalking her.

MICHELLE: So this is the first time I'm hearing all these details but help me understand it. I mean, that scenario you just laid out sounds like she was criminally harassing you, but the person who was convicted was you.

We move on to the details of a second criminal harassment case. This is the one that sounds so eerily like the circumstances of Sharmini’s disappearance. By now he has left Collingwood and moved to Peterborough.

STANLEY: Now when I went to the job fair, see, I had gone around prior to that. I had gone around to different places, the YMCA, but the YMCA wasn't hiring. I went to a couple of the fast food joints, the only one that was-- that only seemed like it was maybe hopeful was Wal-Mart. So I attended a job fair. I got there…

MICHELLE: It's here he meets his next victim.

STANLEY: She started telling me that she hopes to get the job. And she was telling me about, you know, she was an immigrant and that, you know, like, she was telling me that she had just got married, and that she had a job and that she quit. And, you know, at the time I felt, like, I felt a little bit jealous, because I didn't really feel that she was worthy of getting the job.

MICHELLE: Like you were in competition because you wanted the same job,

STANLEY: I felt that I had to try to eliminate her from-- you know, I felt that I wanted to get her to go elsewhere.

MICHELLE: Even though this is a job fair where presumably there's dozens and dozens of people?

STANLEY: I felt that, you know…you know, I-- I hadn’t had a job for a long time.

MICHELLE: I know, you were probably desperate to work.

STANLEY: I was, I was. And I felt that if I can eliminate-- eliminate this competition, then I may have a better chance.

MICHELLE: Why her, though? There were-- so there would be so many people.

STANLEY: I was discouraged. What would bother me was that she told me that she had just had a job and that she had quit. I felt that, you know, I deserved the job more than her. So I told her that the YMCA was hiring. And, um, I told her that I knew the manager.

MICHELLE: But Tippett knew the YMCA wasn't hiring, and he didn't know the manager.

So at some point somebody finds out that there's-- you're bullshitting her.

STANLEY: I think what caused the suspicion, because…

MICHELLE: She does become suspicious, especially after she runs into Tippett, supposedly by coincidence, at the local Taco Bell. She's there applying for another job, and suddenly Tippett is behind her.

STANLEY: One morning I was on my way to Taco Bell. And, sure enough, she was there.

MICHELLE: Peterborough is like a weird small town, isn't it?

STANLEY: Well this is-- Taco Bell was a place that I go frequently with my family. And I remember seeing her there and she was applying for a job, and I certainly didn't want her to get a job there because I didn't want her to meet my family.

MICHELLE: But you seem to have this weird dislike for her. I mean, you barely know her.

STANLEY: I didn't have a dislike. I just didn't want, you know, I had lied to her and I certainly didn't want my family, like my wife, I didn't want to be, you know, I didn't want to have to face the fact that I had lied to this person. You know, she was under the impression that I had-- must have followed her there.

MICHELLE: Had you followed her there? Or…

STANLEY: Pardon?

MICHELLE: Had you followed her there?

STANLEY: No, no, not at all.

MICHELLE: He says he didn't follow her, and the meeting was a coincidence. According to court records, Tippett got mad and insisted she fill out a fake YMCA application, an application he had brought with him. And the harassment didn't stop there. Each time he saw her, Tippett offered her a ride. She always said no. He also showed up at her home at least three times, once leaving a birthday card signed “Jason”. There's also this. Tippett told the young woman that her duties would include work on behalf of police. Eventually the woman calls the YMCA. They tell her no one by the name of Jason works there and they're not hiring. And then they call the cops. Police charged Tippett with criminal harassment.

Did they take your car at that time too?

STANLEY: Yes. Yes, they did. They seized my vehicle and they searched my-- my home, my residence.

MICHELLE: What did they find in your vehicle?

STANLEY: Well, they-- like they, they took it out of proportion. Like, I had items in my vehicle, like I had-- basically stuff that I had cleaned my vehicle with. You know, I had, like, the common stuff. I had some rope that, um… I had a hammer, that was a little hammer that I had underneath the driver's seat. I had some duct tape and I had some pylons and stuff. Now the police were looking at those items that I had in my vehicle as suspicious, as something that you use for kidnapping.

MICHELLE: Stanley, I have to say, I look at that as suspicious. I have a car and I don't have any of those things in my car.

STANLEY: But I-- I had pylons that I used for when my son played soccer and, um...

MICHELLE: But you can understand how that would seem suspicious.

STANLEY: Well, I think the problem is if you look at something, and you look at something that, oh, well that could be used—yes, people could use a lot of things for different purposes. And I had-- I had these TVs on the back of the seats for the kids to watch TV, and they were strapped down with cable tops. So they-- they were looking at, oh, well the cable ties could have been used to restrain someone.

[Music]

MICHELLE: I move on to the last case, the sexual assault of the 12 year old, the one he picked up late one night in Peterborough after finding her and a friend drunk on the street. He claims he dropped one friend off and then was carjacked by two men. They were the ones who sexually assaulted her, he says. Unlike the other charges, Tippett didn't plead guilty to this crime. He insists he was wrongfully convicted, that he's being punished for just trying to be a good Samaritan.

With your prior convictions, why would you pick up two inebriated girls, knowing how that could look?

STANLEY: I asked myself that…I ask myself that every day, but I can only-- I can only be, you know, like, the only thing that…I regret it. Like, I do regret it, but…you have to understand the situation. You have to be there to understand what it was like. It was after midnight. I made the mistake of stopping to help someone who I thought, you know, was in need of help.

MICHELLE: But there's a common thread to these cases. You really see yourself as the victim.

STANLEY: I just-- to me, it’s just that, you know, there’s situations in life that sometimes you make decisions and you don't know after you make the decision how it's going to turn out. Yes, I was duped. Yes, there were situations that I made bad judgments and I made decisions that I shouldn't, you know, I should've thought more carefully about what I was-- what I was doing. I regret-- I regret a lot of things that I did that night when I was helping the two girls, like, I keep constantly saying, well, I shouldn't have. You know, I should have called the police. I-- I feel that, you know, I should have done that. The first thing I should have done, I should've done that. I felt that I was doing what any, you know, any citizen should do. I was brought up that way. You know, I was brought up with the values that if you see someone in need of help, you should stop or help, you know.

MICHELLE: How would you feel if they reopen the Sharmini case at some point?

STANLEY: As I-- as I mentioned, you know, I don't want to-- I'm not into-- I'm not interested in making comments or giving any further comments about that because I don't have any information to add to that. The information that I provided to you and to the police, that's the same information that I'm standing by today.

MICHELLE: Standing by is an—an awkward choice of words.

STANLEY: You know, that's my position. You know, that's what I mean.

MICHELLE: “Position” is not much better.

STANLEY: I don't have any other information to offer.

[Music]

MICHELLE: Those three hours, they fly by. And I'm only just scratching the surface. We want to look further into Tippett’s claim of innocence and despite his reluctance, he needs to talk about Sharmini. That's next time on Uncover: Sharmini.

[Music]

STANLEY: My intentions of being here today is to talk about my wrongful conviction. I believe that it's important that people know about the DNA evidence that supports my innocence.

[Music]

MICHELLE: Uncover: Sharmini is written and produced by myself, Michelle Shephard, and Kathleen Goldhar. Our Associate Producer is Ilina Ghosh. Our Audio Producer is Mitchell Stuart. Our Digital Producer is Judy Ziyi Gu. Chris Oke is our Story Editor. Our Video Producer is Evan Aagard. Transcripts by Rasha Shehata, Varad Mehta and Carol Park. Our Senior Producer of CBC Podcasts is Tanya Springer, and the Executive Producer is Arif Noorani.

[Music]

MICHELLE: Uncover is a CBC podcast. Another show we think you might like is Someone Knows Something, a true crime investigative podcast. In Season 5, host David Ridgen travels to Thompson, Manitoba, to investigate the unsolved 1986 murder of Carrie Brown. Subscribe to SKS wherever you get Uncover.

ANNOUNCER: For more CBC original podcasts, go to cbc.ca/originalpodcasts.

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TRANSCRIPT: UNCOVER: SHARMINI - EP 4

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