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The AIH Transcript for February 13, 2020 CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off. CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens. [Music: Theme] Part one: Airbus Bombardier, New Brunswick emerge closings, Edmonton bus driver Guest: Vincent Marissal CO: Mr Marissal, how bad a day is this for Quebec's taxpayers? CO: Was it inevitable though? I mean, with the amount of debt that Bombardier was carrying, was it possible for it to continue? CO: And now this big piece of Quebec Inc that is going away. I mean, was it considered a company that was too big to fail? CO: And just for people outside of Quebec, in case they don't know, when you say CAQ government, this is the Coalition Avenir Québec. CO: I just wondered to return to this, to what degree did Quebec have a choice? I mean, the numbers of times that Bombardier’s CEO Alain Bellemare would say that, yes, we're going to make this work. You know, give us another chance. Give us some more money. They had to make a leap of faith many times in order to keep Bombardier afloat. And so I just wonder from you how badly do you think this company has been run? CO: No, but there is the argument that if you want an aerospace industry in your country, if you want it for Quebec inc, the governments have to pay-to-play. CO: All right, on that note, Monsieur Marissal, we'll leave it there. Thank you for speaking with us. CO: Bye-bye. [Music: Indie rock] Guest: Bruce Northrup CO: Mr Northrup, you have decided to oppose your own government's plan on health sector reform. And in a statement, you said that had you done a lot of soul-searching. What did you find there? CO: Your just talking about the emergency room in Sussex, or there are six hospitals that are faced with shutting their emergency rooms during the night. So are you talking about all of them that you want them to stay open? CO: But what you just described that there is this 24-and-7 demand for those E.R.s. That is not the same facts that we have Karen McGrath of Horizon Health — the health authority there — who says that they're seeing an average of five patients per night. Most of them are not emergencies. And that it's acceptable to have these closures because there isn't a need for that. So how is it that you have it seems different facts than what your own government has? CO: But yeah, but where are they getting their facts? I mean, if that's what you're hearing, I guess it's anecdotal, what do you make of the fact that the health authority seems to have different information? CO: But the premier — Premier Higgs — who's the head of your party, he says that that he supports these changes. He says that others will come around once they see the value of them. He says we have to make these decisions. They are not popular, but people can understand the facts and the reason when they see how they are they work. So he's relying on what he's getting from Horizon Health. Have you told him that you have different information? CO: Earlier this week we spoke, with Dr Hubet Dupuis. And he said that he thinks your government is going to fall over this plan. You've only got a minority government — a very slim minority. So how possible is that? CO: So how popular will you be if you're the vote that means that your government falls? CO: Have you talked to him since you released this statement? CO: Was he angry? CO: All right, we'll be watching. Mr Northrup, thank you. CH: Bruce Northrup is the Progressive Conservative MLA for Sussex-Fundy-St. Martins. We reached him in Sussex, New Brunswick. Edmonton bus driver CH: This weekend, the first buses left a new transit garage in Edmonton. On a sign outside that garage is the name of a woman who used to drive buses for the city: Kathleen Andrews. In the '70s, she was the Edmonton Transit Service's first female bus driver. And now, her name is on the Kathleen Andrews Transit Garage. Here's Ms. Andrews, talking to with the CBC about her job back in 1976. KATHLEEN ANDREWS: Well I'd been working in office for many years before I came to the city of Edmonton. And I decided that I would prefer to be with the public more. I liked driving. I wanted to be outside. I was sick of working in office. So that's why I took the job. And the pay for it for me anyway, I don’t know if it’s for a man or not, but it was quite attractive for myself, anyway [she laughs]. KA: Yes, I do. Same pay, same hours, all around the same treatment — no special treatments — I do the same thing as they do. I am a bus driver. In other words, I am another brother, as the call me [she laughs].I enjoy it. It's safer than in my car. The view is better, and I'm way above the cars. I can see ahead. I've got all the moves around. I just I feel safer in a bus than in my car. I am an individualist. I always have been — even as a child. As far as if you're doing it same job as a man then you should get the same pay. I'm out to do a job. I want the money. I want the job. I like the job. I like to work. And I need this job. That's all there is to it. To bring up my children — especially with a high standard of living today. CH: That was Edmonton's first female transit operator, Kathleen Andrews, speaking to the CBC back in April of 1976. Ms Andrews died in 2013. And daughter, Lisa Andrews, is following in her mother's footsteps. She works as a transit instructor for the city. We reached her during a lunch break in Edmonton. LISA ANDREWS: Wow. First of all, to see your mom as a young person is a little bit surprising. When I saw that interview with her, you know I was just so very proud of her and her accomplishments and and what she had done. It's quite emotional for me to hear her voice, and see her back you know when I was only nine years old. But you know I'm just so very proud of her, and I was very proud of how she handled herself in that interview. LA: Yes, I don't think anybody was expecting that back then. But you know with being you know a single mom and a divorcee, I don't even think she was looking at it as forward-thinking. She was just looking at it as a way to survive, to make ends meet, and raise her kids and you know I'm put a roof over our heads. LA: Not really [she laughs]. At the beginning, she wasn't treated very kindly at all by her colleagues. The men did not want women in the workplace, period. With her coming into transit, they had height and strength requirements. Once they relaxed those that's when she came in and said to the branch manager you know I would really like to try for this. And he said well go for it. When the male colleague saw her come into their workspace, they were not happy with that. One of her operator instructors told me of a story that she walked into the lounge — because, back then, they didn't have formal training. You just went with another driver. As soon as she walked in the lounge, they just all turned their backs on her. They did not want to train her. The operator who has told me that he noticed her British accent because you know she was an immigrant from England. She came over when she was 14. He being Irish, he noticed her accent and kind of took her under his wing and said, hey, you know I'll train you. Because he saw how they were treating her. They would also play some really dirty pranks on her. They would you know with the old buses they would have a huge handbrake that you had to squeeze and pull up. You know they would pull it up really, really hard so that she couldn't undo it so that she would struggle all the time. And the public wasn't very nice with her either. They actually refused to ride her bus. LA: One lady, I know one story she told me like she would work late nights. There were no labour laws as to how many hours you could drive or how long you would work. You would work 15 to 17 hours a day, every day. And then one lady one night she was working late at night and the lady got on her bus and she looked at her and she said if you knew what was good for your children, you would be at home looking after your children and not taking a job away from a man. My mom, you know she was always grace under pressure, and she handled things with you know humour, but she was always polite. But she would also tell you off politely. She just looked at that lady and she said you know what? I do know what's best for my children. That's why I'm working these long hours and I'm sitting in this seat and I'm busting my butt for them to provide them a roof over their heads and you know food on the table. Somehow she won that lady over because late at night, that lady them would bring her sandwiches and hot coffee. LA: Back then, because I was nine years old, I don't think so. I think you know all she had back then was her mom and dad. They were the ones that basically kind of raised me while she was working these long hours. So I don't think at the beginning she did have anybody to talk to. Not that I know of. I know three years later, she did become the first female dispatcher because she wanted to have weekends off with us. And you know I still hear of a story of one of the drivers not liking the work that he was given by her. And you know he took the running board and he threw it out of her head [she laughs. You would never hear that today in the workforce. He was quite upset. So you know they didn't even treat her you know that nice even when she became a dispatcher. So to this day, I keep telling him when I see him you still owe me breakfast for doing that to a mother [she chuckles]. LA: Well, it's so important that when she did get a divorce from my dad in 1970, I know she went into just being secretarial work, and you know the traditional roles that women would do. But after she got divorced, she went to the bank and she said you know I'd like to get the mortgage on the house in my name. They wouldn't sign it off to her. They said you're single. You're divorced. You're not married. We are not giving you a mortgage. You have to get your father to co-sign the mortgage for you. LA: Getting up at 3:00 in really sucked [they both laugh] but you know, by chance, it was actually the first bus out of the garage was driven by a female. So I had to be there. And it was probably one of the most proudest moments of my life to see her go off. Everybody was saying — you know because most of them are my students — Lisa, you should be driving the bus. you should be driving the bus. And I'm like, no, you guys don't understand. This is about solidarity. This is about our sisterhood. This is about women together. And I want to support her going out the door of the garage her driving the bus not, me. Mom didn't do this you know just for me. She did this for all women to have this opportunity. So it was an extremely proud moment for me to stand by her side, yelling girl power as we left the garage [they both chuckle]. LA: Thank you so much. I was very much a pleasure to talk to you too. LA: Take care. Bye. [Music: World music] [Music: Bright instrumental] Coronavirus fundraiser CH: The spike in China's coronavirus numbers is terrifying. On Wednesday, 242 deaths were recorded in Hubei alone — and after officials broadened their diagnosis rules, the total number of infections jumped by almost 15-thousand. But Bill Bu doesn't have time to stop and worry. The Halifax businessman is from Wuhan. He's a graduate of Wuhan University, and he has family in the quarantined zone. And Mr Bu has been working not just to help his family, but to get Wuhan's hard-pressed medical teams the supplies they need. We reached Bill Bu in Halifax. BILL BU: Oh, well, we keep in touch with them on a daily basis. And actually, the family we have in Wuhan is actually my wife's you know parents. You know, they're quite old. You know, they like almost like a mid-80s. And you know, they've been doing fine at the moment. And at the start — especially the first few days after you know this city was shut down — and they did not have enough supplies, enough food, and they did not get any face masks. They could not go outside. And so very fortunately, I was able to find community volunteers who were so very generous. BB: But also brave in a way you know to go outside and to buy groceries and deliver right you know to the door. So they're fine. They're doing they're doing okay. BB: Of course, you know in a way when you just look at the numbers, and of course, you know they look pretty alarming. But also, you know I think we you know we pay attention to what's going on over there every day. And also, we have also seen enormous efforts that has been taking place over there. And also, you know the people are now you know being taken care of you know to some extent. So this is also giving us some relief. BB: Of course, actually, you know, I've a lot of contacts over the area in China. Of course, I came from Wuhan. You know, they’re actually running a shortage of you know a lot of supplies. Yeah, the hospitals also you know having a big shortage of necessary medical supplies you know to protect you know the health care workers. So this is very worrying. BB: I organized the Chinese New Year gala dinner about three weeks ago. And you know I was the chair of the event. So you know right at my welcome speech, and I became you know quite emotional giving my speech — because I was thinking of, oh my goodness, my family is you know in China. [he is breaking down] O; my goodness, sorry. And, of course, I wanted to you know to do something that you know to help them. So I started you know calling on the you know the participants and you know to support. But my gaol was actually you know to support you know the health care workers. And I wanted to you know to help them you know to save you know more people. BB: Oh, it was quite a process, you know? Number one, that it has become very difficult to find you know face masks — even some other medical supplies. And we have driven to many drug stores and Walmarts, you name it. And we could not find a single face mask you know here in Halifax. So I tried very hard. And so you know I was so lucky to find a supply in the U.S. you know online. So, of course, you know I placed order and you know the order came. Because you know I asked them whether they could ship over to China you know from the U.S. and they say no, they only ship to North America. And you know so my wife had to open each of the box — even eat each individual you know boxes — which contains you know 20 I think respirators you know in each. And you know just to make sure you know they are in good shape, you know they're not damaged, and to actually repack them properly. And actually I think much stronger. BB: Oh yeah, she spent quite a few hours you know packing and repacking [CO chuckles]. she has done a lot of the work, yeah. BB: Well, you see, I just almost you know could not control my tears you know when I was speaking to you about you know the families in China, right? So, of course, we are worried very worried about them. And we talk to them every day. And you know we do video chatting and audio chat, you name it, you know? And so we just want to make sure you know, number one, they’re safe. Number two, you know they stay home. They don't they don't — unless it's very necessary — we tell them don't go outside. And, of course, also, of course, it's just you know the human emotion. I think that's our normal reaction to this. BB: Oh, thank you so much for having me. And you know thank you. And you know, hopefully, other people's family are fine as well. BB: Thank you. [Music: Horns!] [sc] JIM CRANE: Listen, the Yankees have had a few comments out there. You know, our opinion is you know that this didn't impact the game. We had a good team. We won the World Series. And we'll leave it at that. JC: I didn't say it didn't impact the game. Basically, you know as the commissioner said in his report, he's not going to go backwards. It's hard to determine how it impact the game — if it impacted the game — and that's what we're going to leave. KERRY SANDERS: Kerry Sanders with NBC News. Was this cheating? And how does this reflect the feelings of the nation right now, where we see a corseting of rhetoric in this country where people seem to want to win at any cost — even if it includes cheating? KS: May I ask, is it cheating? KS: Do you use the word cheating? Was this cheating? [/sc] [sc] [/sc] [Music: Industrial] Guest: Sam Rowley CO: Sam, first of all, big congratulations. CO: But how much more surreal is it that you have a photo of mice that do beat out pictures of jaguars and orangutans for this prize? CO: Can you describe your award-winning photo. CO: Do you know the backstory to this fight? CO: what were they fighting over? Was it food? CO: Now, of course, it's not just a picture. It's just the way they're shot, and this kind of eerie dystopian kind of subway tunnel underground. Everything's very, very cold looking — and these two little fellows having their little skirmish there. So how did you get the photo? What do you have to do in order to get that shot? CO: And there wasn't station security telling it to move along? CO: [she chuckles] It's interesting when you think of you know those stories and pictures of nature photographers who are waiting in the grass, or in the forest, or in some swamp for hours at a time to get that amazing shot of nature. And you're lying on the subway platform [SR chu8ckles], trying to get to the little mice. CO: When you talk about urban wildlife, is that something that you that you have begun to specialize in? Is that something that you're doing? CO: But it’s interesting, the urban wildlife is something that most of us try to avoid looking at. I mean, when there's mice in the subway, people don't want to know — especially something rats or cockroaches. I mean, these are animals that we try to ignore in our environment. But you don't do that, I guess? CO: Do you think there's any resentment in the nature photographer world that you're mice in the subway [they both laugh] would out over their lions and tigers and bears? CO: So what's next for you? What are you going to be looking at? CO: But you’ll mostly be looking around your feet to see what’s going on? CO: Just outside your door. CO: Well, Sam, again, congratulations. And thank you. CH: Sam Rowley is the photographer behind the award-winning "Station Squabble." He is also a wildlife filmmaker at BBC's Natural History unit. We reached him in Bristol. If you want to see his photo, I hope you do, head to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. MB survival CH: He was working a remote trapline in nothern Manitoba, when he became a target. Last week, Daniel Anowak was coming out of the bush when he was shot by someone on a snowmobile, who may have thought he was an animal. He was wounded and bleeding. And he walked for more than two days to get to Churchill, Manitoba — with only a compass to guide him. Here he is telling his story to CBC-TV from his hospital bed. DANIEL ANOWAK: Just when I finish my last trap, I was about to get out in the bush, and when I was at the line of the bush, I saw a snowmobile. And there was only one person on it. Like, he stopped. He was about 400 yards away. I didn't recognize him. And the next thing I know, I heard a gunshot. And it hit me. I didn't know I was hit — because I fell down. I blacked out for about ten-15 seconds. Then, when I woke up, I got up, and then I started filling in blood and coming out of my wound — gushing out. The guy, where he is, and he was already flooring the throttle as fast as he could the other way. I was pretty scared. I was thinking about my kids. I got three kids. And being alive was my only thing that was to be alive for my kids, to see them graduate, to see them get married and all. And like, I just started walking towards Churchill. I didn't stop, day and night, I just kept going. CH: That was Daniel Anowak, speaking to the CBC from his hospital bed. Mr. Anowak was mistakenly shot — and had to walk for more than two days after that to reach Churchill, Manitoba. Part three: locusts in Kenya, Alan Turing story [sc] ANNE KINGSTON: No, that didn't occur to me. I wasn't thinking about the editor as I was reading the essay. I was more concerned with the contents of the essay. And I was surprised by the fact that it was published in The New York Review of Books, period. AK: Well, they were numerous. I think that it was a very interesting place for Jian Ghomeshi to have his kind of comeback response. This is the first time we've heard from him directly since the trial. And I felt that, one, there was very little sense of the scope of the damage that he did. He talks about wanting to you know inject nuance into his story. But he really only… it was very solipsistic. It was very self-referential. He did express concern for the awkwardness of people who have to confront him in the street. But there was no compassion for the women who came forward as allegations. I was surprised by that. I was also surprised though the pieces riddled by inaccuracies. AK: Well, I think that the article fell so short of the standards for which the New York Review of Books is known. It didn't satisfy the basic requirements of a personal essay that would be published in The Review of Books. It didn't take us somewhere new. It didn't broaden our discussion. It didn't have any sense of self-revelation or even contrition in the essay. So it didn't really make sense why it would be put there other than as clickbait, frankly. AK [she laughs] Well, this is one of the oddest parts of the Ghomeshi essay. And it is called “Reflections on a Hashtag”. Ghomeshi at the beginning of the essay refers to the fact that a friend you know joked or quipped about the fact that he was a #MeToo pioneer — which is a stunningly tone-deaf thing to say. Something an editor should have stepped in to fix — because Ghomeshi was not a #MeToo pioneer. The women who came forward were the pioneers. CH: That was Anne Kingston, speaking with Carol in September 2018. Ms. Kingston, an award-winning journalist and columnist at Maclean's Magazine, died yesterday. She was 62. Locusts on Kenya CH: Aid groups say the locusts are so bad in some parts of Kenya, entire fields of crops are being devoured in as little as 30 seconds. Desert locusts have been wreaking havoc across East Africa for weeks now. And the speed at which they travel makes it almost impossible to keep up with them. Last month, we spoke with a United Nations worker in Nairobi, Kenya, about how swarms of locusts were seriously threatening food security and livelihoods. That threat is being realized as we speak in Eastern Kenya's Kitui County. Farmers there are watching crops they spent years tending to, being destroyed in an instant. Moses Omondi is a program officer at Farm Radio International, a Canadian charity that broadcasts valuable information to farmers across Africa. We reached Mr Omondi in the town of Mwingi. MOSES OMONDI: The stories that I'm getting from the farmers are not something to laugh about. Because, today, one farmer was I'll tell you we were driving through, and he was telling me that the situation has really, really, really made him look like he didn't do anything at all — because all his crops have already been consumed by the desert locust. And actually, to some extent actually, he is affected psychologically. This is the source of his income. He has been taking his kids to school using farm produce. He has been paying bills using farm produce. So, according to him, he's like, you know, Moses, if this continues, if the government is not coming to act impromptly, then I'm even thinking of committing suicide. MO: So yeah, so most farmers are disturbed psychologically. Others are thinking that maybe it's a curse from God. Others maybe think like there is really something that they didn't do well. Others think that the type of crop that they've been planting, maybe it's time to change the type of crops that they're planting. MO: Most of them are mango farmers. They also plant maize. And they also do kales. MO: Currently, what most farmers are doing is just getting some drums. They're drumming the drums to the locusts to scare them away. Others are using whistles. They're blowing the whistles from morning till evening. Some are even taking their lunch and breakfast and probably dinner in their farms, blowing whistles. Others are improvising the motorbikes by pressing on their horns — probably to scare the locust. Others are shouting — literally shouting — with like the whole family's shouting in the farm you know? MO: Exactly. That one will only make them shift positions from one area to another place. Then they'll come back. MO: Um, it's fun [he laughs]. It's fun in the sense that when you're running through the locusts, they'll come and try to kind of freak you using the tibia And, to some extent, it's not fun — because when you look at the amount of crop that these locusts are consuming, you can even cry because this is what the entire family is depending on. In the next probably six months or so, the entire family will experience hunger. That's how the farmers are feeling, and they're so sad. And you know sometimes, as a person like me, I work with farmers directly, and I also work with the broadcasters. So sometimes when the broadcasters are called by these farmers — probably to explain because we have different bizarre wire stories, we have resources that we've been sending to these farmers. So sometimes, they'll be like, where is that Farm Radio guy? What do they have for us? Can they give us an alternative crop? Because we are suffering, we don't have food, where are we going to get food from. The government is not doing anything. So sometimes, most of the farmers are pointing fingers back at Farm Radio through the radio stations. MO: Exactly. And that's why what we are doing currently as Farm Radio, we are coming up with stories and radio spots on the emergencies and how to guide. And we share with different broadcasters. For instance, we've already established our top group, where we are sharing all these stories. We are recruiting radio stations that we are training on how to get our resources. We are really a pretty small organization, but we are reaching more farmers. We are reaching more broadcasters. We are appealing to well-wishers if we can get some fundings to reach these farmers. I think that will really, really help the situation as of now. MO: The government of Kenya is thinking of pest management methods. Ground and aerial control, maybe using tested and registered chemicals that are not harmful to a humans and the environment. Unfortunately, most farmers have the fear of the unknown that maybe if this pest management is not really, really well-managed, the best management can be harmful to the soil — which in time will bring more harm. MO: The future is not too bright for these farmers, who are having their crops destroyed. Because some of them, like are only left to eat what the remnant of what the locust has already consumed. So in terms of their future, I would say that their future is really not bright, and also, the women, the widows, most of these parts, you find a situation whereby we have more widows — widows are dominant in these areas. And some of them, they really don't have an alternative at all. And they are not seeing anything good to smile about. MO: Okay. Bye-bye. [Music: Ambient] [sc] GEORGE MARATOS: I've been to your farm. I know how much you love your cows. They're not just livelihood, but almost like family. How are the cows doing now? GM: Do cows show stress? I know you said that it's hard to know if they even knew what happened, but? [/sc] [Music: Piano] Guest: Kieren McCarthy CO: Kieren, this is such a bizarre story. Just first of all, what do you know about this woman who calls herself Julia Mathison Turing? CO: And what did they find, when Homeland Security raided her home, looking for… Well, tell us what they were looking for and what they found? CO: Good heavens! There’s quite a story about how she even managed to get these items. Can you tell us that? CO: What made her do that? Any idea the motivation this obsession she seems to have with Alan Turing? CO: And just for people who perhaps have forgotten the story, this is Alan Turing, as you mentioned, considered one of the greatest heroes of World War Two. His cracking of that code, it’s estimated saved maybe sifts his 17 million lives. But then persecuted and prosecuted for homosexuality. He was forced to accept chemical castration instead of prison. And he died of cyanide poisoning — many believed to have been suicide. So does she have any connection with him at all? CO: What were the some of the more valuable items that they found? CO: It doesn't sound though that the school — the Sherborne school — where she was she was able to get this and leave the note there, were they actively pursuing the return of these items over these decades? CO: But there's nothing that's not fascinating about this story [she chuckles]. And so what are you going to do to pursue it? You're obviously fascinated enough that you're not going to give up on this? CO: [ she laughs] All right. I hope you get it, Kieren. I'm fascinated too. Thanks so much. CO: Bye-bye. [Music: World music] [sc] JULIAN BRAZIL Well, I think it's a bit of trial and error, really. You used to see people wandering around with their mobile phones in air — sort of like the opposite water divining [CO laughs], trying to find a signal. And they found it by the loos, and standing on the bench, they got the best reception. JB: I think it's just holiday-makers really [CO luahg]. It's actually by a phone box, you know, one of the old traditional red phone boxes. So I think people were up there you know who probably couldn't get reception. So went to the public phone box. And then, while they were in there, they suddenly picked up a signal. JB: Well, that's a very good question I think, I mean obviously, people are receiving messages and texts and things like that. But if it's anything urgent, they can use the phone box. And, indeed, they do. But you know people have become very attached to their mobiles. And some reaction we get, one would have thought that life can't go on without them. JB: Well, yeah, I don’t think it matters which way they're facing. It's just as high as they can get. And the problem we had was that they were standing on the benches and breaking them. And someone came up with this idea of a podium. JB: Well, we don't know really. I suppose it would look not dissimilar to the old-fashioned mounting block, you know when you need to get on and off your horse. JB: That’s right. JB: Yeah, no, that's it. And obviously, the queuing is all part of British culture. So that’s very popular. JB: Well, we were trying to keep it all very quiet. [he laughs] But, unfortunately, the cat’s got out of bag I'm afraid. So yeah, we're rather dreading a visit from some sort of health and safety people — the bane of many people's life. You know, they might not even let us out when it’s wet in case we might slip over. JB: Well, I mean, we hope we hope not. But, I mean, it may be. I'm sure that there will be endless debate, and plenty of time and hot air expounded. CH: Julian Brazil, a district councillor in the English village of East Prawle speaking with Carol in 2007.

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February 13, 2020 episode transcript

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