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The AIH Transcript for February 05, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: So much winning. The Senate acquitted Donald Trump of the impeachable offences. And our guest, a Republican, explains why he thinks the U.S. president has won much more than simply holding on to his job.

CH: Making them visible again. Six years after Sindy Ruperthousewent missing, her father welcomes plans to commemorate her and other murdered and missing women — in a place for all to see.

CO: Cruise control. Thousands are quarantined on the Diamond Princess after an outbreak of corona virus onboard. One passenger tells us she's facing a very long stretch on the jumbo vacation liner.

CH: Take it with a grain of salt. The company behind a new drug to treat peanut allergies in children says it's a game-changer — but one pediatric allergist points to some limitations.

CO: A seemingly endless number of twists. Decades ago, she began collecting bread tags to show her student what one million looked like. And long after she knew he would never see the results, she kept her promise.

CH: And… virtuous signaling. Much ado is being made of the Queen's decision to sport a snowflake brooch from Canada. And the message she may be hoping it sends to Harry and Meghan.

CH: As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that figures. Whatever the reason, it's a clasp act

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Impeachment ends, coronavirus: cruise ship, peanut allergy treatment

Impeachment ends

Guest: Brendan Buck

CH: U.S. Senators have found Donald J. Trump not guilty in his impeachment trial — marking the end of proceedings that have dominated Washington for months. President Trump had been facing two charges: abuse of power, and obstruction of congress. As expected, this afternoon, votes on those charges in the Republican-led Senate went almost exactly along party lines. The outlier, however, was Mitt Romney. Earlier in the day, the Republican Senator from Utah announced that he would vote to convict Mr. Trump of abuse of power.

SOUNDCLIP

MITT ROMNEY: In the last several weeks, I've received numerous calls and texts — many demanded in their words that I stand with the team. I can assure you that that thought has been very much in my mind. You see, I support a great deal of what the president has done. I voted with him 80 per cent of the time. But my promise before God to apply impartial justice required that I put my personal feelings and political biases aside. Were I to ignore the evidence that has been presented, and disregard what I believe my oath and the Constitution demands of me for the sake of a partisan end, it would I fear expose my character to history’s rebuke, and the censure my own conscience.

CH: That was Mitt Romney speaking today, ahead of the votes on President Donald Trump's impeachment. Brendan Buck used to work for former Republican House speakers Paul Ryan and John Boehner. He's now a partner at the communications and public affairs firm Seven Letter. We reached him in Washington.

CO: Mr Buck, we just heard Mitt Romney, what he had to say, and strong words. Why do you think that no other Republican senator did that?

BRENDAN BUCK: Yeah, it was a remarkable vote for me because the Senate really has become a tribal place. It reflects the tribal politics that we have in this country. There really is no middle ground, particularly in the Republican Party. Donald Trump has really taken ownership of the party. And the only viable place politically is to be with him. I imagine there are a lot of senators who privately share their concerns, but Mitt Romney expressed today, but they are all looking out for their self-interest politically. And that is just the name of the game in the Senate these days. And so I'm not surprised necessarily that Mitt Romney voted the way he did just because I worked for him, I know him and I know what kind of person he is. But it's still surprising to see that people are still capable of doing that in a day where we are so partisan and so divided.

CO: And this acquittal is this the sort of final part of about 48 amazing hours for Donald Trump, wasn't it? I mean, this is quite an extraordinary few days he's had of triumphs, isn't it?

BB: Certainly. You know, despite the vote from Senator Romney, this has been probably one of the best weeks president has ever had. When you've got Iowa Democrats scrambling to figure out who won. You have the acquittal vote that just took place today. You have his numbers higher than ever. And you have a Republican Party that has really backed him in a way that we haven't seen in a Republican president in a really long time. He has really got all Republicans in his corner in a way that has provided enthusiasm for his re-election. You know, we're going into basically election mode at this point. And you have to think that he is the front runner to win at this point. And it is largely because Republican voters are more energetic than Democrats are. And if you had told me that was going to be the case two years ago, I would have never believed you.

CO: And we heard that in his State of the Union address because it really was a kind of election speech, wasn't it? It was a real campaign sound to it — and talking about the economy that's roaring, and taking credit for things that are not entirely or not at all his acting, his work. But, at the same time, he's wearing it. Any president at this point would be would be lauding the efforts of his own White House in the same way. So he's taking credit for a quite an extraordinary economic moment in the United States, isn't he?

BB: Yeah, that was a very confidence speech given last night. One basically saying I have done a good job. Look at all I have done. It really was pretty short on things here's what I plan to do. Usually, a state of the union address is packed with a long agenda list of things that a president aspires to do or wants Congress to do. And there was very little of that. It was very heavy on as you said economic accomplishments, great things that he thinks he's done — both domestically and in foreign policy. And you're actually right it was the kickoff of the 2020 election campaign. I think a lot of those themes you heard will be continued. He said something along the lines of we cannot go back to where we were before. He drew a stark contrast with not only President Obama, his predecessor, but also described a socialist policies that I'm certain he's going to make a centrepiece of his election really trying to frankly scare voters into thinking that if they move off the course that we're on, this prosperity that we're feeling in America right now could go away.

CO: So where are the weaknesses here? I mean, this booming economy and this American confidence and the Consumer Confidence Index very, very high — all of this good. But a 23-trillion dollar debt that is a huge part of that came from the tax cuts that have created this boost in growth. Where are the weaknesses that Mr. Trump is faced with between now and November?

BB: Yeah, you know I think this election in a lot of ways is going to come down to certain geographic areas and certain demographic groups. The area where the president has really struggled has been in the suburbs. And it has been particularly with women in the suburbs. And there are issues where, well, first of all, it's beyond issues. It's just his personality that has repelled a lot of suburban voters, educated voters. But then there's also issues like gun control, or the lack thereof. And climate change, where the president has been pretty strident and not really given to any middle ground. And in those suburban areas where his style of politics, his populism, isn't quite as popular, combined with some of these tangible issues that people are really concerned about. I really think this election could come down to whether there is good turnout in the suburbs of Detroit and Philadelphia and Milwaukee — which are these critical states and these critical cities in those suburbs. And so he's got to find some way to make inroads with women and educated voters in the suburbs. And I think what he tried to do in his state of the union was appeal to them on economic grounds. But we'll have to see if that's enough.

CO: And what do the Democrats have to do between now November in order to undermine that?

BB: Well, I think what they need to do is find a way to get their enthusiasm back up. Two years ago, when we were going into the midterm elections, enthusiasm among Democrats was sky high. And it's relatively high now. But the reality is Republicans are fired up. This impeachment battle has really served only politically to embolden Republicans and get them backing the president.

CO: Just this very quickly, finally, any cracks among Republicans? Any place where you see that they might not be so supportive of Mr. Trump over the next months?

BB: You know, I truly believe the population of so-called “Never Trump Republicans” is a vanishingly small group. They're pretty well populated in DC and in media, but the president has really taken over the party. It is his party at this point. So I think that he's going to have a pretty robust support among Republicans, and that's a really big advantage that he had that he didn't even really have four years ago and was still able to win.

CO: We will leave it there. Mr Buck, thank you.

BB: My pleasure.

CH: That was Brendan Buck speaking from Washington DC, after the Senate voted to acquit President Donald Trump of impeachment charges.

[Music: Indie rock guitar riff]

Coronavirus: cruise ship

Guest: Gay Courter

CH: They knew they'd be spending most of their time on a cruise ship — just not this much time. Right now, more than 3,600 people are aboard the Diamond Princess. They're in quarantine on the vessel for fourteen days, after ten people on board tested positive for the new coronavirus. Two-hundred-and-fifty-one of the passengers are Canadians. Passengers aren't permitted to leave their rooms. Gay Courter is one of them. She's an American writer. We reached her off the coast of Tokyo, in Yokohama Bay.

CO: Hello, gay. This is Carol.

GAY COURTER: Hi, Carol. This is Gay Courter on the plague ship the Diamond Princess.

CO: [chuckling] How long have you been on the plague ship under quarantine?

GC: Well, we've been on the ship for a lovely two-week cruise. And quarantine started officially I guess yesterday morning. I have one of those jail things where you “X” out the days up on the wall here.

CO: [laughing] It's been 24 hours, and are you doing okay? Are you getting out at all? Or are you stuck to your cabin?

GC: Unfortunately, we are not allowed to leave our cabin at all. I feel sorry for people on inside cabins with no windows and no space. We're lucky to be in a mini-suite with a balcony. We're counting our lucky stars whenever we can. We're feeling healthy — which is the most important thing right now.

CO: And what are they telling you about your future?

GC: Very little. We mostly get our information from the Internet and outside sources. The captain talks to us a couple of times a day. They've been pretty honest with us within certain parameters. So far, an additional ten people were taken off the ship yesterday in quarantine conditions. By that, I mean hazmat suit-type things.

CO: Right. This begins there was someone on the ship who was sick for I understand five days before anyone acted on this. What do you make of that?

GC: You know, the initial man who got on the ship in Yokohama, Japan on January 20th, when we all started our cruise, got off in Hong Kong on Chinese New Year's Day. I don't think he showed any signs of being sick until he was in Hong Kong and went to a doctor, who then confirmed she had the virus. So I don't think the ship knew about anything at that point. And then we were informed. At that point, I think Princess dropped the ball. They did not institute normal virus precautions — which they do for things like norovirus. And they let us intermingle and go to shows and art auctions and events — eat in the Horizon Food Court. I'm not that I was out in those crowds — although I did wear a face mask and I've been washing like Lady Macbeth. [CO laughs] I have no idea who I was in contact with. You're just standing in a line. You're in contact.

CO: And you mentioned the Princess, of course, is the Diamond Princess is the name of your cruise ship. And so have you been tested? Has everyone had a test of some kind at this point?

GC: All we've had is a temperature check, and we filled out a paper on how we were feeling. And people can lie on the form and not have had a temperature. I would be happy to submit to a more intensive testing. You know, whatever they're doing in terms of swabbing. You know, at this point, health comes first for everybody. Right now, we have a coast guard escorting us into Yokohama port. I can see it in the distance, and they're going to put additional supplies on the ship, and possibly remove some passengers. I don't know about that. It's really ironic Carol because I'm a novelist, and my latest novel is called “The Girl in the Box” — and it's a cruise ship murder mystery. And I did a lot of the research on this ship two years ago.

CO: No?!

GC: Yes.

CO: [laughing] Are you gathering material for part two?

GC: Absolutely [laughing]. Oh boy! So now we have helicopters circling. You know, I guess you know from what I can see on the Internet, there's a lot of interest in this ship.

CO: Okay. But, at this point, describe what's going on? You say you've got helicopters, you've got an escort, you're under power now, you're on the move. What does everything look like?

GC: Well, it looks like it's going to be a beautiful sunny day in Yokohama. Who knows what they have in store for us? We weren't even in port. We weren't even allowed to land at the terminal. We were stuck in the middle of the harbour for 24 hours or so. And doctors and infectious disease people were running around the ship, and we were confined. I saw somebody in the hallway briefly in hazmat equipment. And I'll see what's going to happen next — although being restricted to cabin, we don't see much of what's going on. And you know because of the nature of longer cruises, we have lots of retired folks, lots from the U.S., Canada, Australia and other countries. And many are quite elderly, in wheelchairs, I've seen some very, very frail people. Apparently, this virus hits the elderly pretty hard, just like the seasonal flu. And I'm no spring chicken; I'm 75. So I'm in a risk category as well. We are travelling with a friend with respiratory issues.

CO: In the meantime, you are there and possibly for another 13 days. What are you going to do? Do you have some book? Do you have a good bottle of wine in there?

GC: Well, we weren't allowed to use room service until last night, but we put it a fast order for wine, beer, sodas. And the food started out very meager but has improved through the day. But it's fascinating how they could be turning out escargot and prime rib one night and barely able to make a sandwich the next day [CO chuckles]. But it's improved slightly — although the gourmet label it has been ripped off.

CO: Well, if that's the worst that happens, then that's okay, I would imagine. Just stay healthy, Gay.

GC: Thanks, Carol.

CO: Bye-bye.

GC: Bye.

CH: Gay Courter is an American writer who is on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship. The ship has been quarantined, after ten confirmed cases of coronavirus were detected. We reached her in Yokohama Bay, just off the coast of Tokyo.

[Music: Indie rock]

Peanut allergy treatment

Guest: Marcus Shaker

CH: When you have a kid with a peanut allergy, food is stressful. But now, a pharmaceutical company in the U.S. says it may be able to reduce some of that stress for certain patients. Its drug is called "Palforzia" — and the company behind it calls it the "first approved treatment for patients with peanut allergy." It has now been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, or the F-D-A. Marcus Shaker is a pediatric allergist at the Children's Hospital at Dartmouth. We reached him in Lebanon, New Hampshire.

CO: Dr Shaker, what difference do you think this drug could make for people?

MARCUS SHAKER: You know that's the question everybody's asking. And it's a difficult question to answer. You know the challenge is that this therapy may cause significant side effects for many patients who decide that this is the therapy they want to choose. The trade-off there might be that there might be protection from taking this therapy over time. But it will be an individualized decision, and it will be important for patients to have really clear and individual conversations with their allergist.

CO: Okay, so what does it actually do?

MS: Palforzia — which is the only approved therapy for peanut desensitization — is designed to create a situation in which patients who accidentally have a small amount of peanut will not react as severely. But the challenge is that in the process of receiving the therapy in small amounts, allergic reactions can occur to the therapy itself. And so if you have a situation where a child is known to be allergic to peanuts and is avoiding peanut and has not had any reactions for the past few years, the risk that that child will have an allergic reaction to the therapy itself is about 14 to 15 per cent. And so you can go from a situation where children are simply avoiding what they're allergic to a situation where the child is now receiving therapy for anaphylaxis to this this daily therapy they're taking at home. And so that's a real problem because for many patients they might be better off just simply avoiding it. But you know, on the other hand, if you have a situation where there's very high anxiety and worry, then the idea that a child could take this therapy, and if they accidentally get exposed to a peanut, there would be some level of protection against a severe reaction can be very attractive.

CO: So no one should be deluded to thinking that this therapy is going to allow their kid to have a peanut butter sandwich?

MS: No, that's exactly right. I mean, that was the hope, right? I mean, if you could design a perfect therapy, what you would design is a therapy for peanut allergy that didn't have side effects. But that's not what we have yet.

CO: Can you just walk us through this Palforzia? It's not just a matter of taking a pill, is it? It's a matter of a therapy. It's a treatment. So just walk us through the stages.

MS: Well, Palforzia is a standardized peanut flour that needs to be introduced in very small amounts. And the idea is that there are very small graded steps. And so a patient and their family would come into the clinic, and they would receive a small amount of this peanut protein — this peanut flour — and they would be observed for a period of time to make sure there's no severe reaction. And if there's not a reaction, they would continue to build up in small incremental doses until they reach the equivalent of about one peanut. But these doses and steps will require multiple visits back to the allergist office — usually in about two-week intervals. And the buildup phase will probably take somewhere between three and six months. But once patients are built up to this what we would call a maintenance dose of daily therapy, they would need to continue to take this daily therapy every day. And that and the challenge is that every day they take that therapy there is some risk of having a reaction to the peanut flour. Importantly, with Palforzia, it's critical that these therapies only be used under the supervision of a board-certified allergist — and that no one proceed with homebrew sorts of oral immunotherapy without the supervision of an allergist.

CO: Right. And I think some parents might be forgiven if they think, well, wait a second, this sounds familiar. That they may have allergies to already do oral immunotherapy in their clinics under supervision. They prescribe doses of peanut flour — which costs about six dollars for a one-pound bag. So one allergist was saying to NPR that they're just packaging up what we already do in a gold-plated capsule, is there truth to that?

MS: [chuckling] That's definitely an argument that I've heard. I think there are some advantages to an FDA-approved product. The advantage that we have is we actually know what the side effect rates of this therapy are. We have large trials. We know what the effectiveness of a therapy is. But as far as what the actual product is, I think you make a very valid point that it may not be very different from what you can get at your grocery store. The counter-argument there, though is that Palforzia is standardized for a major peanut protein component, which is called Ara H2. That means with Palforzia, the idea is that that you know that each time you're getting the dose, it's the same amount of peanut protein — versus being a protein off the shelf may have variable quantities of that major peanut allergen.

CO: This is such a debilitating and dangerous allergy, isn't it, especially for children. And so why do you think at this point there isn't a better treatment or even a cure?

MS: So debilitating and dangerous. I think it's important to have conversations around that — because part of the reason that folks will be drawn to this therapy is because of fear and because of the impact on quality of life. And so one of the conversations I often have with kids I'm taking care of is I ask them what do you think is more dangerous? Having a bicycle or having a peanut allergy? And when patients stop and think about that, more times than not, they say a bicycle. And in reality, those two have about the same risk — about one-in-a-million. I think it's very important to keep risk in perspective. You know having a peanut allergy can be dangerous, but it can be managed. And it's important to be empowered and not live in fear. This type of therapy may be the exact right therapy you're looking for, but you're going to have to look twice. Because there are risks, and there are benefits. And it's going to be something that that everybody well will walk away from with a bit of a different perspective.

CO: We will leave it there. Dr Shaker, thank you.

MS: Oh thank you, Carol. Wonderful visiting with you.

CO: All right. Thank you [chuckling]. Bye-bye.

MS: Bye-bye.

CH: That was Dr Marcus Shaker. We reached him in Lebanon, New Hampshire. And for more on this story visit our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Queen’s brooch

CH: My clothes don't have complicated meanings. For example, my sweater just means it's cold in this studio, because of the gaping hole in the roof. And the fact that I'm wearing two pairs of jeans just means I'll be warmer. And that I'm protecting my legs from being bitten by the raccoon that comes through the gaping hole in the roof. You take my point: for commoners, clothes just have very clear, literal meanings. But that's not the case for Queen Elizabeth. The British press treats her every outfit like it holds a secret coded message — most recently, in the case of one of Her Majesty's accessories. On Sunday, the Queen wore a baby blue coat, with a diamond-and-sapphire brooch. Royal-watchers recalled that the brooch was a gift to Her Majesty from Canada's former Governor General, David Johnston. So they concluded that it was a subtle message to Meghan Markle and her husband Prince Harry, saying "I don't mind that you're moving to Canada." What no one has picked up on, though, is that there could be shade in all that glitter — because that diamond-and-sapphire piece is in the shape of a snowflake. Which could mean their situation is unique. Or it could mean the Queen is saying the Sussexes are — to quote from the OED definition — "overly sensitive, or...feeling entitled to special treatment or consideration". So it's either a minor gesture of support or a major burn. The important thing is that no one is overthinking anything. We all just know for sure that Queen Elizabeth may not want to say certain things directly — so she had to brooch the subject.

[Music: Ambient beat]

Part two: MMIWG billboard, one million bread tags teacher

MMIWG billboard

Guest: Johnny Wylde

CH: As you've been hearing on the news, an electronic billboard was unveiled today in Kitigan Zibi — a First Nations reserve north of Ottawa. The billboard is one of the first products of a memorial fund for the families of missing Indigenous women and girls. It will show the images of women and girls who've gone missing -- women like Sindy Ruperthouse, who disappeared almost 6 years ago. The police handling of Ms Ruperthouse's case eventually led Quebec to launch an inquiry into the treatment of Indigenous people in the province. Today her father, Johnny Wylde, made the trip from Pikogan in Northern Quebec, to be in Kitigan Zibi for the event. Mr. Wylde has plans for a similar billboard in Pikogan. We reached him on the highway home.

CO: Johnny, what was it like for you to see this billboard featuring the missing women and girls?

JOHNNY WYLDE: That was great to see that because we’re gonna put more things on that billboard. So I'm happy to have that.

CO: One of those pictures of your daughter, Sindy.

JW: Yes, because we’re still searching her. We don't know what happened. We never find the body. And so just the picture only for right now.

CO: The story of Sindy Ruperthouse is one of those stories that has brought national and international attention to what has happened to women from your communities. But have you have you ever come closer to knowing what happened to her?

JW: We don't really know what happened. But as a parent, we know what happened. We know she's not with us. We know who killed her, but they're still investigating.

CO: And what do police say about their own investigation?

JW: I'm trying to reach the police, but I can’t reach them before December. I’ve tried to reach them because the police right now are from Montreal, the investigator from Montreal.

CO: But that's the same you have been telling people in interviews and in the commissions of inquiry you've appeared before. You have told the story of how little the police seem to have done to find out what happened to your daughter. Is that still your perception that they're not taking this file seriously?

JW: I don't know what to think about them. That's why we were looking for every summer, every summer we’re redoing the search, like in the bush around Val-d’or. We don't wait for the investigator to go in the bush. They don't go in the bush. So we do.

CO: And you have you and your wife have been doing that search you since your daughter disappeared in April 2014?

JW: Yeah, every summer. Because the people talk to us, they don’t want to talk to the policeman. So they call us. They want to see us.

CO: Have you told the police what you have discovered?

JW: Yeah, they told me I do want to talk to them. We have to do something this summer or not. We have a commemoration in August, in Pikogan. And we’re going to do a big gathering with those family everywhere in Quebec. I'm losing my daughter but covering what those families ever ran.

CO: Pikogan is your community, and that is where there is to be another one of these billboards.

JW: Yeah.

CO: The billboard that was in front of Pikogan, of your daughter, was like a missing persons alert. Is that where the new commemoration of her, is that going to be the same place for the billboard?

JW: Yeah, we’re going to put some pictures on there. On Facebook, you find three or four every day — young girls that are missing. So we're going to put that on the billboard.

CO: What do you hope it accomplishes having the billboard and showing the images of those girls and women?

JW: Because wherever you are, the road goes to James Bay, hey? We want them to know — even in James Bay — if somebody is missing or whatever, we can put it on right away to search for that person.

CO: Uh-huh, so actually if there is a new alert of someone who's gone missing, that billboard will be used for that as well?

JW: Oh yeah. They can call us and it might be a bit to be over there in Val-d’or somewhere, we're going to put up the picture if they can send us a picture or whatever.

CO: But having your daughter's image among those on that electronic billboard, what do you hope that does?

JW: Well, not to forget we lost our daughter for six years now. She knows many people in jail. And we want them not forget missing and murdered. They have to be on mind every time they see that. It can happen to you. So try to love your daughter, or your son just for that thought.

CO: Johnny, I am so sorry what happened to your daughter, and I really I really appreciate you talking to us. And I hope to this this billboard it serves that purpose.

JW: Okay.

CO: Take care.

JW: Okay. Bye.

CH: Johnny Wylde is the father of Sindy Ruperthouse, who went missing in April 2014. We reached Mr. Wylde on the road between Kitigan Zibi and Pikogan in western Quebec.

[Music: Slow rock]

Hajdu coronavirus

CH: Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister, Francois-Philippe Champagne, had a message for Canadians in China today: if you don't have to stay, leave on a commercial flight, while you still can. Roughly 370 Canadians in Wuhan have asked for help getting out of that province, where hundreds have died and thousands are infected from the new coronavirus. A chartered flight for 211 Canadians has now been delayed. It was supposed to depart Wuhan in Thursday, but will now leave on Friday. Health Minister Patty Hajdu answered questions from reporters at a scrum today. Here are the CBC's Julie Van Dusen and Tom Parry speaking to Minister Hajdu.

SOUNDCLIP

PATTY HAJDU: As of now, we have no reports that Canadians that are returning are ill. But again, this is a fluid situation. And all of that would be assessed prior to being on onboard.

TOM PARRY: Minister Champagne talked a bit today about how you kind of I guess tweaked the travel advisories, saying beyond don't take nonessential travel to China, if you're there and you don't need to be, come home. Why is that?

PH: I think there's some concern that as commercial flights actually start to reassess their economic positions, for example, there was a recent report from Cafe Pacific that they're asking staff to voluntarily take three weeks of unpaid leave. Those kinds of things raise some concerns about the ability for Canadians to be able to return in a timely fashion. Secondly, we don't know how long the quarantine will continue in the province of Hubei. And that's a challenge as I've spoken about before for people that are trying to make their way, whether it's to you know get to work or many times they're not working. Things are shut down. It's harder to get supplies. So we're out of an abundance of caution, I think if you don't have to be, to come home now while commercial flights are available.

JULIE VAN DUSEN: Today, the Americans brought in two planes of their evacuees. We know that at least half-a-dozen countries have brought in some of their nationals. Can you just explain why it's taken so long? I've heard some of the reasons, but it seems a little…

PH: Well, we had a slow start in terms of organizing the plane. And I've spoken about that before that we didn't have an understanding of the number of people that needed assistance. And as we communicated more about the need to register and let us know, our numbers shot up rather dramatically. And so we've been working on that.

TP: When the evacuees get to Trenton, I mean, are they going to be able to move around? I mean, what kind of freedom of mobility are they going to have? What kind of circumstances are they going to be living under?

PH: So they'll be primarily in their rooms. And they will not be interacting with each other. And there will be supports in place to help with mental health and social activities and that kind of thing. But the social activities will be within a family unit. They won't be congregating together. There will be supports to help keep them occupied, I suppose. But a lot of that will be self-directed.

CH: Health Minister Patty Hajdu, answering questions from CBC journalists Julie Van Dusen and Tom Parry, earlier today.

[Music: Bold acoustic guitar and violin and an electric guitar riff]

One million bread tags teacher

Guest: Susan Weaver

CH: "What does a million look like?" When he was eight years old, R.J. Vail asked his Grade four teacher, Susan Weaver, that innocent question. To answer it, they made a deal: they would collect a million bread tags — those plastic things that close up bags of bread — and then they'd know. That was 22 years ago. In 2006, R.J. Vail was killed in a car accident, at the age of 16. But Ms. Weaver carried on the project alone — collecting bread tags in his memory. Now, the Grade four teacher has finally achieved her goal. We reached Susan Weaver in Cumberland Bay, New Brunswick.

CO: Susan, as a teacher, I'm sure you get a lot of questions from students, so what is it about this particular question that captured your imagination?

SUSAN WEAVER: I think it was more the little boy that asked the question than the actual question itself. So R.J. was quite a special little boy. He often waited for me at the classroom door in the mornings for me to come in so he could have a chat. And I think what started it, he really didn't enjoy writing — as often little boys don't. And so I encouraged him to write his stories and his questions in a journal and then share them with me. And that inspired him to do some writing. And then that inspired the question.

CO: And so the question: what does a million look like? What did you think when he asked you that?

SW: [laughing] Well, I don't really think I had any idea how big a million was myself. And I told him that. I said I don't have an answer for you, but I'm willing to help you find an answer. But when the tsunami of bread tags started, we were getting a pretty good idea of just how big that million was.

CO: [chuckle]Where did you get the idea to collect bread tags in order to represent one million?

SW: That actually came from R.J. as well. So that day that he asked me, I asked him what he wanted to collect. And first, of course, he gave the usual answer of a million pennies. And so I helped them to figure out how much that was, and he was like, no, that's not going to work. And so I said why don't you go home and look around and see what inspires you, and then we can decide tomorrow? So when he was at the classroom door in the morning, he had an orange and blue can filled with bread tags. And that's how the collection started.

CO: Did you keep in touch with him after he graduated from your class?

SW: I was in touch with him indirectly, so I would get letters in my mailbox with some bread tags, or sometimes just a letter. And from time to time, his family would drop off bread tags. But the most direct contact I had with him probably would have been that year. So for me, he'll forever be an eight-year-old little boy.

CO: How did you come to hear that he had been killed in a car accident?

SW: Well, we live in a really small rural area, and word travels pretty fast. And it was another teacher that I had taught with, and she contacted me to let me know that the accident had occurred and that R.J. and two of his friends had been killed.

CO: And he was 16 years old.

SW: Yes.

CO: That was in 2006. And how did you regard those bread tags at that point when you learned of his death?

SW: Every time you see a bread tag — even back then — I always thought of R.J. It's a horrible tragedy what's happened. But when I see a bread tag, it also makes me smile because I remember the funny little boy that he was, and it brings him back to life.

CO: And so what happened? The knowledge of this lovely fellow and is his untimely death inspired a lot of people to start sending you [SW chuckles warmly] bread tags. How did that word got out that you were looking for those?

SW: Up until probably 2016, it was just our local newspaper would put it in their paper in September. And I would talk to the kids about it. And they'd share it with their families. And then my brother became a Shriners clown. And as a Shriners clown, he started sharing the story. And so when he traveled to parades, and he traveled to his meetings, he would share it. And he would come back from those meetings with a shopping bag. So we were at about 175-thousand or so. Then, this fall, I had had an injury, and I wasn't able to go to work. And I thought maybe if I made a special page it would encourage more people to donate. And then that's when things started getting really crazy.

CO: Were they coming in the mail? How were they getting these tags to you?

SW: [laughing] They're everywhere. Our beautiful mail lady will come to the school every day. She's got her arms full of packages. There's a gentleman that used to pick up R.J. when he was hitchhiking as a teenager. And so he drives to Halifax. And he stopped in Halifax at a local gas station and waited for people to bring him tags. I find them sitting on the roof of my car when I go grocery shopping [CO laughs]. They're just everywhere [laughing].

CO: All right, so this week, you hit it, right, a million bread tags?

SW: It was a million bread tags on Monday.

CO: What was that moment like for you?

SW: [chuckle] It was hair-raising. And what the millionth bred tag was was even more divine, for lack of a better word. So the kids normally they take a picture when the bread tags come in. They open them. And if there's a letter, they read the letter to the class. And when we dumped the bags out, there was one black bread tag come out on top of the pile. And the kids immediately… that's the one! That has to be the one! And so they had figured out we needed another six-thousand-one-hundred-and-fifteen to get to the millionth. They knew that that last black tag was going to make a million.

CO: Okay, so the question is what does a million look like?

SW: What does a million look like? A million looks like forty-four-and-one-half 20L blue water cooler bottles filled to the gunnels. It looks like people all over Canada smiling about little bits of plastic. And it looks like his mom and his sister crying that we made it this far.

CO: And it looks like R.J. smiling at you [both laugh].

SW: I had one of the students videotaped me when I made the announcement Monday morning to put on Facebook. And what you can't see in the video is so there's a supply teacher that's in the room with me because of my injury. And I had bought a confetti cannon in anticipation of this million bread tag. So after the kids hollered one million bread tags, the supply teacher popped the confetti popper, and it startled the little girl that was taping, and so she turned off the camera by mistake. But the confetti shot the whole width of the room. And so if you can picture all these colorful stars and rectangles of bits of paper flying through the air, and 22 little faces lit up laughing and trying to catch them. And I can see R.J. catching them from somewhere else. It was quite a moment.

CO: Okay, there's not a dry eye in the house at this point, Susan [both laughing]. What a story. What an inspiring story. Thank you so much.

SW: You’re very welcome.

CO: Bye.

CH: Susan Weaver is a Grade four teacher at Chipman Elementary School. We reached her in Cumberland Bay, New Brunswick. And if you want to see that giant collection of bread tags, head to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: World music]

FOA: Funnel web spiders

CH: And now for a little science gossip: Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson has moved into some new digs. That is science gossip, because I'm not talking about beefy human action-hero hunk Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. I'm talking about the Australian funnel-web spider named for him — who, trust me, is every bit as beefy — at least for a spider. But he's also way deadlier. And he's the latest resident of the Australian Reptile Park. Unlike his Hollywood namesake, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson the spider won't be saving lives on screen. He has the potential to save actual lives in real life. He'll be milked for his anti-venom, as part of a program the centre believes saves as many as 300 lives every year. Of course, the human Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson also produces anti-venom, but he's too ticklish to milk. Back in 2017, As It Happens spoke with Tim Faulkner, general manager of the Australian Reptile Park. Then, like now, the Park was appealing to people to collect funnel spiders, to replenish their stocks of antivenom serum.

SOUNDCLIP

TIM FAULKNER: Funnel-webs are a pretty classical, cliché looking dangerous spider. You know they are a deep, rich black. They’ve got burs all over their body. They’re a dumpy spider, meaning they’re quite heavyset. You know, and they look, if you like, rather scary.

HM: How big are they?

TF: They're not a massive spider. So they're not like the size of a tarantula. But I guess you could say that one would just comfortably fit in the palm of your hand.

HM: But maybe not so comfortably for me.

TF: Yeah… nor me. But for the imagination, you could seat it on the palm of your hand.

HM: Now tell us why you want these spiders.

TF: OK so the funnel-web spider has a very strong venom. It’s very painful but it also has a really strong neurotoxin, and essentially, you know people do die, have died. 76 minutes was the quickest bite to death. So in 1981, the reptile park works with an organization called the Bio CSL, CSL stands for the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories, and began to make anti-venom. Now that's a two stage process. One is to get the raw venom from spiders. You have to milk the spider. Once you've got that real venom, then you send it off to the Serum Laboratories where they turn it into anti-venom. Now we can go out on expeditions and try and catch a bunch of… it doesn't work. But the Sydney funnel-web which is the one we're particularly interested in, it lives in our most populated part of Australia. So there are so many eyes and ears out there that after a good patch of weather, are going to bump into these spiders. So we need community support and essentially, we have drop off points within about 200 kilometers of the reptile park. Veterinary clinics, hospitals etc. So you know, the irony of it as well is though, is that, to catch the spider, which means just to flick it into a jar gently with a ruler or a wooden spoon. It's actually safer than trying to squish it with a thong, or you know, a shoe, because if you hit it with a shoe, and you miss, you know, so ironically you’re safer trying to touch the spider then you are trying to kill it.

HM: Thank you for reminding us yet again that Australia is a whole different world.

TF: Yeah, well in saying that it is. It is. And you know, I visited North America, Canada, Alaska last year and I mean, it was beautiful. You guys have moose and bears. What do you do? How do you stop one of them?

CH: [laughing] From January 2017, that was Tim Faulkner of the Australian Reptile Park. He was speaking with guest host Helen Mann about funnel-web spiders.

[Music: 60’s Brit pop]

Part three: Bayard Rustin pardon, earthquakes and whales

UK MP sexism

CH: In the UK House of Commons on Monday, Labour MP Tracy Brabin made a shocking appearance.

SOUNDCLIP

TRACY BRABIN: I know that all members of this House will agree that lobby journalists access to government is vital for a functioning and healthy democracy.

CH: Um, that… that wasn't shocking. That was normal. That sounded like a reasonable thing to say in the House of Commons. What's the shocking part? Oh, wait, I see. The shocking part wasn't a part of the speech. It was a part of her body. As the BBC put it, "The Batley and Spen MP had been raising a point of order...when her shoulder appeared." Right… her...shoulder. Apparently, the slight exposure of that usually uncontroversial area prompted a barrage of sexist name-calling online. Not to mention hand wringing about Commons decorum by some in the British press. All of which led to Tracy Brabin making an appearance on "BBC Breakfast" this morning to call out the trolls.

SOUNDCLIP

TB: Women are judged continually by how they look. And Girl Guiding UK did a survey a couple of years ago, interviewing young girls about their confidence. And one in six said they were ashamed about how they look. This is unacceptable that we are raising our daughters to be looking inward rather than outward. And if you're navel-gazing, you can't take on the world, can you, if you're always worried about whether your hair is right or not. So you know I would suggest that this is part of a push back for that, and say listen to what we say, not what we wear.

WOMAN: There are changing standards of dress in Parliament as well. Do you think that needs to be looked at?

TB: Well, there's been a loosening of expectations. Men can now wear ties or not if they wish. Ultimately, Mr Speaker has the final say and whether something is appropriate. And there are rules about whether you can wear branded t-shirts, I think. And you know hats are still, I think acceptable. So you know, it's down to the speaker. But I would say again that a woman is always judged more harshly than a man. And I know that if Tom Watson, my predecessor in this role, was stood at the despatch box that nobody would comment about what he was wearing.

CH: That was UK Labour MP Tracy Brabin speaking to the BBC, after she was attacked online after showing a portion of her bare shoulder while making a statement in the House of Commons.

[Music: jazz]

Bayard Rustin pardon

Guest: Shirley Weber

CH: Bayard Rustin was a key leader in the civil rights movement. He was also openly gay. That was a problem for some people — which meant serious problems for him. In 1953, Mr. Rustin was in Pasadena, California to deliver a speech on peace. Instead, he was arrested for having sex with a man, and forced to register as a sex offender. It cast a shadow over his life. A year before his death, in 1987, he spoke with the Washington Blade about what he had to deal with, as a gay man in the civil rights movement.

SOUNDCLIP

BAYARD RUSTIN: I don't know if you know, but I was an associate of Dr. Martin Luther King for a number of years. And actually, I am the person who drew up the plans for his Southern Christian Leadership Conference. At a given point, there was so much pressure on Dr. King about my being gay, and particularly because I wouldn’t not deny it, that he set up a committee to explore whether it would be dangerous for me to continue to working with him. And after eight years, that committee came to the decision it would be dangerous.

CH: That was Bayard Rustin speaking in 1986 about being cast out of Martin Luther King Jr.'s circle because he was gay. Today, the Governor of California issued a posthumous pardon for Mr. Rustin. Shirley Weber is a California assembly member, and the chair of the California Legislative Black Caucus. We reached her in Sacramento, California.

CO: Ms Weber, why was it important for you to get California governor to pardon Bayard Rustin.

SHIRLEY WEBER: Well, I think mainly because, one, the incident that occurred occurred in California. And Bayard Rustin had been a giant really in the civil rights movement. That was somehow hid by so many with regards to folks not wanting to deal with not his competence or his commitment to the movement, but his lifestyle. That they didn't want to deal the fact that he was gay.

CO: And you’re speaking of an arrest that took place in January of 1953 when that Bayard Rustin was found in a car with two other men. Because he was already active in the civil rights movement, he was all already a leader, what effect did that have on his ability to work in the movement?

SW: Well, I think you know more than anything, by then he was pretty much entrenched in the movement. And his role was clear in terms of how important it was. But I think he never really get the kind of credit, the out-front credit in 1953, and coming forward as he should have received. People were very nervous about whether or not the movement would suffer as a result of him being arrested and being charged. Some thought of it obviously as an effort to try to control the movement. Because the other gentlemen who were in the car were not charged with the same thing and did not get prison or jail time as he got. And so it was kind of a racist back at some point. But also designed to try to sully his reputation and keep him from being involved in the civil rights movement. And obviously, it didn't because the March on Washington that took place ten years later was successful because of Bayard Rustin.

CO: How was he regarded within the movement? He helped create, as he just said in that clip, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. He was very, very involved in the movement — a key person in the movement. But the influence to I guess downplay him or keep him in the shadows was it because there was prejudice against him being gay?

SW: Of course, of course. I mean, it's interesting how not only the African-American community — particularly the African-American community I should say — and some other communities handled the issue of person who is who is LGBT, whose who's gay and who's out about it, have a tendency to not pay attention to it. In other words, it's not that we don't know it's there, it's just that we don't talk about it, okay? And so, as a result, it's one of these un-discussed items in black communities is who is and is not — especially at that time frame that was there. So when you look at the March on Washington, you hear the name Bayard Rustin. But you don't have really long discussions about it. And if you look at many of the books on civil rights, Bayard Rustin’s name may be mentioned. But not in the sense that you get a sense that he's really the powerhouse behind the movement. King kept him there because he was a valued member in terms of organizing. But I'm sure Bayard knew, and others, that he was not going to be out-front. Because that's something that they just didn't do in black communities at that time.

CO: It's something very interesting as well, and he mentioned it in that clip, is that he would not deny that he was a gay man. I mean, he could have been in the closet. He could have been able to function perhaps more easily more publicly within the movement if he had just I guess, and he's said this elsewhere, just sort of hid the fact that he was a homosexual. Why was it so important to him that he that he not hide his identity?

SW: Well, you know when you read about his life, and you read a little bit about who he was, he was a person of tremendous strength and determination — and didn't take the easy road. I mean, he did not take the easy path that some would have taken, and that many did take in the civil rights movement and other movements around the country, where they did not identify themselves as being gay because they didn't want to deal with the pressure and the backlash. And some took wives. But you know that was a standard. That was acceptable in the 40s, and the 50s to kind of you know everybody had a cousin who was kind of like that. But that person could never bring their significant other around and could never participate as an openly gay person in family events. And that's really quite tragic, you know? But that was his life. But he was one who was not going to hide who he was. He wasn’t gonna marry somebody and pretend that he was a heterosexual and that kind of thing. He was authentic, and they had to accept him as he was. And yet, he understood the fact that he was involved in a movement that he did not want his sexuality to become the movement, in other words. He was not about to thrust the LGBT community into the middle of the civil rights movement — especially at that time when it was so critical when there were so many marches, and there were so many attacks, and there were so many people being hurt. Does your personal identity and self then rise to that level? And obviously, he chose not to make himself the issue, but he never hid that. Some would have said, no, I want to be out-front, and I want to have a banner that says I’m gay and I want this and I want that. He didn't do that. But nonetheless, he was not one to deny it either. He wasn't going to lie about who he was.

CO: He died in 1987. And now with having this pardon, how much will this contribute to possibly seeing Bayard Rustin being written into the history, being sort of and exactly as who he was written up and a key part of that March on Washington in 1963?

SW: Well, one would hope that once you know that the pardon has occurred, I know that the LGBT community is working on getting a stamp in his name. And they've made some samples of it. And I think those things would open up the discussion in universities and others who is Bayard Rustin? You know, he has a stamp after him, and he was pardoned by the governor. So who is that person? So at least you don't have to deal with the stigma of, well, he was a sexual da, da, da — whatever. So you can deal with that. And you know the pardon also gives us a lesson about history and what happened to people that should not have happened. And how California has changed in terms of its laws and its relationship with the LGBT community. The hope is obviously that he will have his rightful place in history. And I think those who are working to get not only the pardon, those who worked who invited us to join them, the LGBT community to get the pardon, also were working at the same time to talk about including things in history books. They’ve talked about at least putting his name there, getting a stamp so that people can know who he is. And as a result, slowly but surely, impacting the names of the individuals who were active in the civil rights movement.

CO: We will leave it there. It's a fascinating story. A really important story too. Ms Weber, I appreciate you telling it to us.

SW: Well, thank you very much for the invitation.

CH: Shirley Weber is a California assembly member. We reached her in Sacramento.

[Music: Bright instrumental]

Airbnb speaks

CH: Airbnb says it's going a step further to keep people safe — after three men were shot and killed inside a condo unit in downtown Toronto. Police now say that was likely a murder-suicide. The shooting happened months after the vacation rental platform banned unauthorized party houses. On Monday's program, we spoke to city councillor Joe Cressy. He said Airbnb needs to crack down harder on what he called "ghost hotels" — rental units with no hosts, where guests host large parties. Today, Airbnb executive Chris Lehane was in Toronto, to announce a new set of safety measures. Chief among them: customers under the age of 25 would be barred from renting entire homes in the community where they live. Here's what Mr. Lehane said.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRIS LEHANE: Our research shows that that is a cohort that in particular over indexes when it comes to issues related to so-called “unauthorized party houses”. And I also want to be clear that if you're under 25, you're still going to be allowed to make a reservation. In a shared space, the host would be there. It makes it really difficult for there to be an unauthorized party. So that's announcement number one. Announcement number two is something called the Neighbour Support Tool. The Neighbour Support Tool is a tool where there is a direct line — a hotline — so that if a neighbour or a member of a community sees something going on in their neighbourhood and thinks it involves an Airbnb guest or activity within an Airbnb, can call us, 24/7, 365. Where a human will answer the phone and be able to provide a rapid response support to deal with that issue. And then the third announcement is that we're entering into a three-year partnership with Canadian doctors for protection from guns. I think from our perspective, we recognize and realize that this is an incredibly complex issue. You know when you think about Airbnb, you know today, we're in 220 countries. There's over a-half-a-billion people who have traveled on the platform, 100-thousand cities, six people check in every second. With that comes responsibility. Ninety-nine-point-nine per cent of people conduct themselves appropriately, understand that they're members of a community. But when you're at that scale, you have a lot of people staying in a stranger's home. And sometimes the frailties of humans will reflect themselves. But for us, it's simply not good enough to say that, hey, we're just merely a reflection onto larger societal challenges. For us, it's incredibly important that we take a responsibility.

CH: That's Airbnb's head of policy Chris Lehane, speaking to reporters today in Toronto. Last week, three men were shot and killed at an Airbnb rental unit in the city.

[Music: Sombre folksy song]

Iowa volunteer

CH: Pete Buttigieg's husband, Chasten, has not been in hiding. He's appeared beside the Democratic presidential nominee on the cover of Time magazine. He's headlined "Pete for America" fundraisers. And he's called himself the "future first gentleman of the United States." So it's hard to believe that voters don't know that Mr Buttigieg is gay. But on Monday night, at the Iowa Caucus, one voter was not only confused to learn that he is. She was angry.

SOUNDCLIP

WOMAN: So are you saying that he has a same-sex partner?

MULTIPLE WOMEN: Yes.

WOMA: Are you kidding?!

WOMAN: He’s married to him, yes.

WOMAN: Well, then I don’t want anybody like that in the White House, so can I have my card back?

WOMAN: I don’t know? You signed it. We could go ask.

WOMAN: I never knew that!

WOMAN: The whole point of it is though he’s a human being, right? Just like you and me. And It’ shouldn’t really matter.

WOMAN: Well, he better read the bible.

WOMAN: He does. And he said that God doesn’t choose a political party.

WOMAN: Why does it say in the bible that a man should marry a woman then?

WOMAN: Well, I totally respect your viewpoint on this. I so totally do…

WOMAN: How come this has never been brought out before?

WOMAN: It’s common knowledge.

WOMAN: It’s been acknowledged, yes.

WOMAN: I never heard it!

WOMAN: We can talk to someone if you need to talk to them aboujt this. I don’t know the rules on this or not. But I guess what I would like you is just dig deep inside and think like should it matter if it’s a woman, or if it’s a man, or if they’re heterosexual or homosexual if you believe in what they say? That’s my question for you?

WOMAN: It all just went right down the toilet is where it all just went.

CO: So what do you think was going on then?

MG: So what we think explained exchanges is that there was less food available for them. And one thing that has been documented for this earthquake was the earthquake triggered some underwater landslips similar to what we see on land — kind of like an avalanche. So there was a lot of sediment that collapsed on the canyon walls and that flushed through the canyon, taking away with it a lot of the invertebrates and creatures that live on the on the seabed. But also, it took away a lot of that food for the sperm whales.

CO: And when you referred to the canyon, what is the canyon you're describing?

MG: Yeah, So this is a submarine canyon. It's quite a special Canyon. It's comes very, very close to the coast — which is unusual. It's only about a kilometre off the coast. It's already almost a kilometre deep. And it's been described as one of the most productive deep sea ecosystems. And so the sperm whales use this area so important in foraging grounds. And because it's so close to the coast that means that it's one of the few places around the globe where you can access sperm whales you can access them from land on a six-metre boat that you can launch each morning.

CO: Because Sperm whales are very vulnerable to extinction, and they are looking for food in very changed conditions in the sea. What does that tell you about how much more difficult it is for creatures like sperm whales after there's been an earthquake at sea?

MG: So the changes that we observed show that that these animals can be vulnerable to this impact. And so it's important that we take a precautionary approach to managing those other potential impacts from any anthropogenic activity — whether that is fishing, or tourism, or seabed mining, or seismic serving — and especially with this population, which was already in decline. It's kind of highlights the importance of pollinating any impact that could affect the population. But it also shows that sperm whales have certain resilience to adapt to these changes of natural disturbance. So they were still there. They were still feeding. it's just that they had changed slightly the areas where they were strongly the areas where they were feeding. And there had been some consequences for how much energy they would have to spend finding food. But they still manage that. So it gives us a glimpse into understanding the resilience of these populations to disturbance — to natural disturbance at least.

CO: Just because we have this opportunity, I know you're out there just off the coast of northern New Zealand, what does it look like? What are you seeing?

MG: [chuckling]Well, at the moment, we're seeing a bit too many whitecaps — more than what we'd like. So it's a bit windy today for our work. But we've been doing some surveys offshore of Northland trying to find what are the patterns of the megafauna that live here. It's an area that's very little known. So yeah, so we've been doing surveys. And it's very beautiful, yeah, very sunny, beautiful blue water, beautiful to be out here on a on a boat, yeah. [chuckle]

CO: Lucky you! Marta, it’s good to talk to you. Thank you.

MG: Yeah, lovely talking to you. Thank you.

CH: Marta Guerra is a marine biologist in New Zealand. We reached her just off the coast of Northland, in the South Pacific.

[Music: Slow ambient piano]

Russian nuke priests

CH: You may have heard about the "super" dad who custom-built a huge — like, enormous — playground for his kids. It would have taken most fathers forever — but he did it all in six days. He even spent all of Friday putting the finishing touches on it. Then he relaxed for a day. But did they appreciate it? No. In fact, they were bent on trashing it — and each other. Not only that, but somehow they imagined that's what he wanted. They actually thanked him, incessantly, for providing them with the tools and the know-how to do it. I bet he considered smiting all of them. Of course, he would never — he'd given that up ages ago. He probably just hoped they would come to their senses. If you know and believe that story, you'd think we would have learned not to smite each other. And you'd certainly find it hard to believe that huge smiting devices — weapons of mass destruction — merit an official blessing in the name of God. But priests in the Russian Orthodox Church have been doing that for a long time. Now, they've announced that they're rethinking the tradition of sanctifying weaponry capable of killing, quote, "an indefinite number of people." Proposed guidelines for priests would actively discourage them from practising such longheld rituals — like sprinkling holy water on ballistic missiles, rockets, submarines and other munitions. The church will debate the new guidelines until June 1st. And it insists the public should have a say. That should be plenty of time to make a righteous choice. After all, it ain't rocket science.

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February 05, 2020 episode transcript

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