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The AIH Transcript for January 23, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight...

CO: Ghost city. A man in Wuhan, China, describes living in a city where the streets are eerily silent after a lockdown ordered to control the spread of the new coronavirus. He says he's never been so fearful.

CH: Crossing a line. An American immigration lawyer says he received an email from a US border official detailing a directive to question all Iranian born travelers no matter what their citizenship.

CO: Armed and very dangerous. A US court hears allegations from the FBI that a Canadian man recently arrested on gun charges was part of a domestic terror plot aimed at waging a full blown race war.

CH: No more questions. Journalist Jim Lehrer spent a lifetime seeking answers, and usually he got them. He died today at 85. And we'll hear him in his own words, recalling a pivotal moment from his early career in Texas journalism.

CO: Kibble and twits. Well, actually, there's a whole lot of kibble, but only one twit. The owner of a dog food company decides to eat nothing but his own products for a month in order to prove they're fit for humans.

CH: And yolk and dagger. For decades, Jeffrey Lendrum has gone to incredible lengths to snatch eggs from rare birds of prey and then smuggle them across borders to rich buyers. But it seems he's not in it for the money, but for the thrills. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that thinks he might be a bit eggocentric.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: What it's like living in Wuhan, a Chinese city on lockdown over coronavirus

Coronavirus: Wuhan

CH: In one of China's biggest cities, the streets should be bustling. As millions prepare for Lunar New Year celebrations, but the outbreak of a new coronavirus has made Wuhan feel like a ghost town. Authorities have locked the city down in an effort to stop the spread of a virus that has sickened hundreds and killed at least 18 people. The virus has been confirmed in seven other countries so far. We reached a resident of Wuhan and we've agreed not to use his name because he's worried he'll be targeted for criticizing the Chinese government.

CO: What is life like in Wuhan right now?

VOICE: The city is totally shut down. Which means that all the transportation -- the public transportation -- or the flight, the ship and the freeway has been shut down. So people in Wuhan cannot go outside of the city, and other people cannot get in the city. And it's raining outside for all day. So now the street is totally empty.

CO: Are you also afraid, given the reason why you're quarantined like this is because of this coronavirus?

VOICE: Yeah, of course. I think degree of the fear is like the biggest so far in my life. And it was the first time that I had fear that the whole city, 10 million people, they have this kind of fear and this kind of anxiety. Yesterday we can we still could take the public transportation. So I took the subway back home and I saw just a few people in the carriage and people were wearing masks and couldn't really talk to each other like they usually do. Because usually the carriages I think (are) very noisy. But yesterday it was silent. Yeah.

CO: And so everyone who is out, you see them wearing masks. Is that right?

VOICE: Yeah. I think like 95 percent of the people are wearing masks now. But it was only like four, maybe three days (ago) because before that people were not told that this could be so serious and so severe and so deadly.

CO: You know that seems odd because this has now been weeks into this crisis. People have died. It is on the brink of becoming an international crisis. And yet a few days ago, people were still traveling around. This lockdown has come only now. What do you make of the fact that it's taken so long to actually take these precautions?

VOICE: Well, because it has been for weeks but the opinions and the fact has been, I could say, a little bit distorted. Because the first few weeks we were told that it couldn't be like person to person transmission. But it was only three days ago when a very prestigious professor who was the leader of SARS almost two decades ago, and he took the train to Wuhan and he told the national television that it could be person to person transmission. People finally realized that it's very serious and hundreds of people has already been infected.

CO: It seems to have originated in a market in Wuhan where they sell animals, wild animals, domestic living animals. Do you know that market?

VOICE: That was the place I was very familiar with because two years ago I lived just maybe like 10 minutes walk from that market.

CO: Why would that become such a place for spreading this disease?

VOICE: Well, the market is located very near to Hankou Train Station, which is the biggest station, train station, in central China. So, you know, everyday lots of lots of people go there. And the market is a very big one. It is called the Southern Seafood Market. So basically, it's not only a seafood, it's a mixture of everything. You can buy fruits, you can buy seafood, you can buy poultry, and also -- just like you said -- you can buy wild animals. So it's a very big market. Yeah.

CO: Are people trusting what the authorities are telling them?

VOICE: I think the trust has been, well, decreasing dramatically after this case. Young people of course, they feel so frustrated. And the middle aged to the elderly people after this case -- you know just like my parents -- they feel so frustrated and disappointed about the local government.

CO: Because you can read English, are you learning things about the crises that other people aren't able to read or know because they don't speak English?

VOICE: Well, of course they don't speak English. And another important thing is that they couldn't really get access to other social networks, like Facebook. We use WeChat. So most of the information has already been deleted or filtered. So yeah.

CO: You and your family, do you have enough food? Do you have masks and the supplies you need?

VOICE: Yeah, I have bought masks several weeks ago. And because this is the spring festival so usually I think I should say 90 percent of the families they have a lot of food in stock.

CO: But you're not going to have much of a Lunar New Year, are you? Not much of a spring festival.

VOICE: Yeah. Usually it is the time that relatives would visit each other for at least one or two weeks. But now, just like in the morning, where we knew the news that the city has already been shut down -- and within the family, we just send messages, and said to each other that this time we don't go to each other's apartment for the spring festival. I'm not sure you know -- because we don't know how long it's going to last. So, yeah, I'm worried about the future.

CO: I'm going to leave it there. And I appreciate speaking with you. I hope you and your family stay healthy.

VOICE: Thank you very much.

CH: That was a lifelong resident of Wuhan, China, the epicentre of the coronavirus outbreak. We've agreed not to air his name because he fears reprisals from the Chinese government. And we have more on this story on the As It Happens website: cbc.ca/aih.

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Patrik Mathews court

Guest: Ryan Thorpe

CH: In a Maryland courtroom yesterday, the judge said Patrik Mathews is "a very dangerous person [who] espouses very dangerous beliefs." Mr. Mathews is an alleged neo-Nazi and former Canadian reservist who crossed the border into the States in September. Last week, he was arrested on charges related to firearms and being an illegal alien. But in court this week, US authorities painted a disturbing picture of a domestic terrorist who was hell bent on sparking a violent race war. Ryan Thorpe was the first person to publicly identify Patrik Mathews back in August. The Winnipeg Free Press reporter posed as a white supremacist and blew the ex-reservist's cover, which led the RCMP to investigate him. We reached Ryan Thorpe in Washington, DC.

CO: Ryan, we've heard these allegations already about Patrik Mathews wanting to start a white race war. What was he and his friends planning to do, according to US authorities?

RYAN THORPE: Matthews, alongside two other alleged co-conspirators, were planning to drive down to a pro-gun rights rally in Virginia to essentially engage in terror attacks. That's according to information that the FBI gathered. Some of his other comrades in this organization were alleged to have planned a double murder of an activist couple. So this organization has allegedly been quite busy.

CO: Okay, so this was the gun rights rally in Virginia on January 20th. Though the people there were armed, it went off peacefully. What were they planning to do?

RT: Matthews, and in particular one of his co-accused, Mr. Brian Lemley Jr. threw out a bunch of different ideas. Their alleged have built, together, a fully automatic assault rifle into a stockpile more than one thousand six hundred and fifty rounds of ammunition. The FBI says that they talked about going down there and opening fire on the crowds from multiple positions. Mr. Lemley had also discussed the possibility of trying to find a police officer who was isolated that they could assassinate and then steal his protective gear and weapons.

CO: How did the authorities know that? Where did they get that information?

RT: Over the course of several months after Mathews illegally crossed into the US were deploying, these law enforcement agencies, were deploying some of the most sophisticated counterterrorism techniques at their disposal. They were hacking into encrypted chat rooms. They were accessing cellular location data. They were tapping and recording phone conversations. Going into properties where no one was there. So between all of this, they were able to track their movements and their plans quite effectively.

CO: And the some of the recorded remarks by Mr. Mathews that were presented in court yesterday that would point to this plan for a revolution for the white race. One particular phrase that was actually highlighted by the authorities using a lot of strong language. Can you tell us what that was?

RT: The FBI was able to get access to Mathew's computer. And on this recorded videos of himself where he was urging other neo-Nazis to commit violence in an effort to spark a race war, what he called a revolution for the white race. In one of these videos, he's wearing a gas mask in an effort to conceal his identity. He says, "poison some f--ing water supplies, derail some trains, murders some people. That's what you're going to have to be prepared to do." This direct quotation was actually read into the court record yesterday by the judge. And as the judge is reading this into the court record, Mathews is leaning back in his chair. He's pulling on his beard and he begins laughing.

CO: This is rhetoric, right? This is things that they said. And in the United States, there are very broad and strong free speech rights under the First Amendment. What was the defense in regard to this? Because I understand at one point that Mr. Mathews defense lawyer said that one man's domestic terrorist can be another man's exercise of First Amendment rights.

RT: The judge conceded Mathews' words might be protected speech, but he said you can't look at the speech in isolation. It wasn't as if Mathews was standing in a park on a soapbox making these statements when saying these things. But he's also taking concrete steps, such as amassing ammunition and body armor and guns and talking about going down to this gun rights rally in Virginia to open fire on crowds. It has to be taken as a whole.

CO: You had met Patrik Mathews before in Winnipeg as a reporter for The Winnipeg Free Press. You went undercover to try and make contact with neo-Nazis, took a great risk doing that. And so you had this encounter with him, which led to a raid. Your reporting led to a raid on Mr. Mathews' house in Beausejour. He made and understand some references to that raid on his house. Can you tell us about that?

RT: Matthews expressed regret that he had booby-trapped his home so that when the RCMP raided it, they would have set off bombs and killed a number of the officers. He expressed regret at this, essentially saying that he wished he could have planted bombs for these people. The FBI also captured audio and video of him talking about me and essentially saying that what I had done should carry the death penalty. And all of this fits with what I learned in my original reporting, was that this was an individual with a clear potential propensity for violence.

CO: You know, when you describe what the US authorities did, the sophisticated counterterrorism techniques that they used in order to capture this evidence. Why do you think the RCMP never charged him when they found him after your reporting?

RT: I don't know what was going on behind the scenes with, say, the RCMP or CSIS. Whether or not they were perhaps looking into him. But given the fact that he was identified as a recruiter for this violent neo-Nazi paramilitary group, they felt the need to raid his home seizes as firearms. But then they released him from custody and it would appear that they didn't keep eyes on him.

CO: Does it frustrate you as a journalist, given the risk you took in order to expose him? What do you make of the fact that the FBI took this -- it seems -- more seriously than the RCMP?

RT: Well, certainly critics in Canada have point to the fact that they don't think these agencies are taking it as seriously as they should. I really don't want to wade into giving my opinion on these things. You know, I'm not a columnist. But I think it's fair to say that the approach the RCMP took and the approach that the FBI took appear to be quite quite different.

CO: As Patrik Mathews makes his way through this case, and I know you'll be following it. Do you think that he and his friends are being regarded as heroes by others in this movement at this point?

RT: I think they will certainly become in some sense, like martyr figures a little bit. These are folks that intended to engage in terror attacks. And if anything, the fact that law enforcement is cracking down on them is just going to reinforce this notion, this neo-Nazi notion, that essentially Western society is controlled by this Jewish cabal that's going to crack down on white people who are trying to defend their race. Obviously, there's no credence to this view, this perspective, but I think these arrests are likely going to reinforce it.

CO: Ryan, we will be following your reporting. Thank you so much.

RT: Thank you for the invite.

CH: Ryan Thorpe is a Winnipeg Free Press reporter. We reached him in Washington, DC.

[Music]

Egg smuggler story

Guest: Josh Hammer

CH: Jeffrey Lendrum has dedicated his life to poaching eggs. Except he isn't interested in cooking at all. Mr. Lendrum spent more than three decades stealing and smuggling rare bird eggs. And while he is very good at it, he's also been caught several times. The serial egg thief is currently serving a three year sentence in the UK. And this week he was back in court facing extradition to Brazil after fleeing the country in 2016 when he was released on bail. Josh Hammer tracked Mr. Lendrum down in South Africa a couple of years ago, and he has written about Mr. Lendrum's bizarre history, and the world of rare bird smuggling in his forthcoming book, "The Falcon Thief." We reached Josh Hammer in Berlin.

CO: Josh, what makes Jeffrey Lendrum the so-called "Pablo Escobar of Eggs?"

JOSH HAMMER: Well, ironically, this was a nickname that he bestowed upon himself when I interviewed him, when I finally managed to track him down. And he said the press is trying to turn me into the "Pablo Escobar of Eggs" which is totally unfair, he said. In fact, the analogy isn't really far off. This was a guy who spent 30 years as a sort of one man racketeering on trafficking operation, stealing the rare life eggs of birds of prey in various parts of the world, which involve true physical daring and then smuggling them thousands of miles, usually to Dubai.

CO: Okay, so Pablo Escobar made a lot of money with drugs. Is he making a lot of money with eggs?

JH: This has always been the question. He led a fairly modest lifestyle. And there is no evidence that he sort of stashed away billions. So it's a big mystery. And even after following his life for two and a half three years, I still was never able to crack it. The prices that you hear that some of these eggs go for are up to 400,000 dollars an egg.

CO: Okay. Speaking of cracking, how did he manage to smuggle these eggs through airports like London's Heathrow Airport, for example, where he was caught? How did he manage that?

JH: He had a lot of different ways. Obviously, he wasn't totally successful at it since he's been arrested five times over the last 30 years. But you also have to ask yourself, how many times did he get away with it? A couple of times when he's been arrested was really by chance. He acted suspiciously. He was taken aside by customs or in one case, counter-terrorism airport officers. Made to remove his clothing and then was found to have these sort of belts or pouch or in one case, adhesive bandages wrapped around his abdomen containing eggs -- with eggs concealed inside. And again, we don't know just how successful he is because -- I know about a couple of successful operations but mostly I know about his unsuccessful ones.

CO: But if they're live eggs, they have to stay warm. So is that part of the reason why he kept him on him.

JH: Yes, exactly. It was both for concealment and to keep them warm. Yeah, exactly. He had all sorts of operations. He would move the eggs back and forth between his body and an incubator -- carry an incubator, put the incubator in the overhead compartment on a plane. There were lots of different methods, but basically that's correct. He'd have to keep the eggs from cracking and he had to keep them warm.

CO: These are eggs from vultures, from falcons, from kites. I understand when he was cut in the airport he had two newly hatched African fish eagle chicks. How was he managing that?

JH: I don't think that was intentional. You know, basically, this required, you know, some research. He had to figure out exactly when the eggs were laid. And yeah, [chuckles] this has happened on a couple of different occasions to other egg smugglers. A tweet or a chirp gave them away and they were arrested on the spot.

CO: And so now he has gone to tremendous lengths, though, to gather these eggs and including a really daring one in Canada. Do you want to tell us something about that?

JH: Yeah. Actually he'd been to Canada three times before as he was finally busted. But the most spectacular operation was when he teamed up with an old buddy from the Rhodesian war. And the two of them flew to the northern corner of Quebec to Kuujjuaq -- up near the Hudson Bay. And went out into the tundra flying around looking for these Gyrfalcons. When they would find that nest on a cliff, Lendrum would attach himself by a cable to the helicopter, the pilot would then lift off, take him sometimes several hundred thousand feet above a lake. And Lendrum would approach a cliff and then later would reach over and snatch the eggs. Give a signal and be taken off.

CO: There has to be an easier way to make a crooked living.

JH: Well, but this is a guy who thrives on the adrenaline rush of doing this stuff.

CO: Okay. So that's his motivation. What was yours? I mean, you spent a lot of your time tracking this guy down and trying to make sense of it. What fascinated you?

JH: I don't know. I mean, I was a big fan of Susan Orlean's "The Orchid Thief." And I like these kind of esoteric crime stories that illuminate an obsessive world -- a subterranean world. And all it took was one small article in The Times of London back in 2017 when I heard that Lendrum had jumped bail in Brazil and the police in England were worried about their falcon population. It was all just totally fascinating to me. And I wanted to do a deep dive, as we certainly did.

CO: And so Jeffrey Lendrum may be headed back to Brazil. What's that about?

JH: He very may well be. In fact, I mentioned this in the book I wrote it. This was a danger that he was facing you know, about a year ago. And now it's actually come. It may very well come to pass. So as I said, he jumped bail in Brazil, where he was facing the prospect of 40 years in the Brazilian prison, basically went through the jungle to Argentina, claimed his passport has been lost, was given a new one and then flew to South Africa. Then he made the mistake of being arrested at Heathrow Airport with more eggs and was given a jail sentence there where he's been really for the last year and a half. The Brazilians have just filed in Westminster court in London an extradition request. Question is whether the UK is going to rule in Brazil's favor and turn him over. I really don't know where it's going. But he may very well find himself on a plane to Brazil in the near future.

CO: What a story. Josh, thanks for telling it to us.

JH: You're welcome. Thanks for having me on.

CH: Josh Hammer is a journalist and the author of a forthcoming book called "The Falcon Thief" -- about egg smuggler Jeffrey Lendrum. We reached Mr. Hammer in Berlin.

[Music]

Dog food

CH: When we say Italian food, we don't mean food made just for Italian people. We mean food made by Italians for everyone. But when we say dog food, we don't mean food made by dogs. We mean food that's only for dogs. Isn't that weird? That's weird. That is the kind of thought you have if you happen to be awake at 2:30 in the morning. Like just for example, if you weighed about three pounds of dog food over the course of the afternoon and your digestive system violently rebelled, which means Mitch Felderhoff may have had that exact thought. Because that exact thing happened to him after he ate three pounds of dog food, which seems unusual. Except that he's eaten nothing but dog food since the beginning of January. Mitch Felderhoff is, not coincidentally, one of the owners of the Muenster Milling Company in Texas, which makes high end dog food. And he says he's out to prove that his company believes in its product, which means he's been eating only kibble and elk patties and freeze dried chicken and beef meatballs for dogs. As a publicity stunt, it's hard to disagree with his methods. But his methods have definitely disagreed with him, especially those meatballs at 2:30 am. But in combination with intermittent fasting, he has lost 20 pounds since he started. And in videos, he seems to be generally healthy. Bright eyes, pink gums, shiny coat. So the project seems to be working and well-organized, even if it is literally a dog's breakfast.

[Music]

Jim Lehrer

CH: Jim Lehrer once said that journalism is not something you're born to do. The only way to learn is by doing it. And for five decades, that's what he did. Mr. Lehrer covered the Senate Watergate hearings, two presidential impeachments, and moderated 12 presidential debates. For 36 years, he was the anchor of PBS NewsHour. And before he was on his own. He co-hosts the McNeil/Lehrer Report with his colleague, Canadian journalist Robert MacNeil. Jim Lehrer died today at his home in Washington. He was 85. Before he joined PBS in the 1970s, he was a reporter in his home state of Texas working on Dallas newspapers. There he covered President John F. Kennedy's visit to Dallas on November 22nd, 1963, and his assassination. Here's part of Mr. Lehrer's conversation with NewHour's Judy Woodruff in 2014 about what he learned covering that story and the lasting effect of JFK assassination on the city of Dallas.

SOUNDCLIP

JIM LEHRER: It was just disbelief. What I took away and have taken away and it still overrides everything that I have done in journalism since. What the Kennedy assassination, did for me was forever, keep me aware of the fragility of everything. That in any given moment, something could happen. I mean, my God, if they could shoot the president...and that president -- just like that on a beautiful, sunshiny day. My God. Three rounds fired in 15 seconds. Changed the course of history. That if it can happen once, it can happen again and again and again. And when I later became city editor of that same newspaper, I had a rule that every phone that rang in that newsroom got answered because you never knew who was on the other line.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you think? I mean, just to wrap that up -- what do you think is the enduring view of the people of Dallas about what happened?

JIM LEHRER: Well, at first there was shame and embarrassment and grief for what had happened. And it had happened in their city and all of that. But in some ways, it was a marching off spot too, for a lot of people in Dallas who had tolerated intolerance and said, we're not going to do that anymore. And it made a big change in a lot of people.

CH: Jim Lehrer and his former colleague, Robert MacNeil, speaking to PBS NewsHour's Judy Woodruff about the assassination of JFK. Mr. Lehrer died today at his home in Washington. He was 85.

[Music]

Part 2: Border crackdown email

Border crackdown email

Guest: Len Saunders

CH: Len Saunders knew there was something strange happening at the BC border with the United States. First there were the multiple reports of Iranian-born travelers being detained at the Peace Arch Border Crossing in Blaine, Washington on the night of a concert in Vancouver on January 4th -- the day after the US assassinated, Iran's top general Qasem Soleimani. Now, Mr. Saunders has received an email from a US border official claiming that the Seattle Field Office of US Customs and Border Protection instructed officers at multiple sites to target and interrogate Iranian-born travelers no matter their citizenship. Len Saunders is an immigration lawyer based in Washington State, and we reached him today in Vancouver.

CO: Mr. Saunders, first of all, can you tell me about the correspondence you received from this US border official whom you've agreed not to name? What stood out for you most about what they were saying?

LEN SAUNDERS: So what stood out to begin with was that a US officer would even contact me. It's very rare for an officer, in my experience, to reach out to a US immigration lawyer, basically as a whistleblower. I've been practicing for over 20 years. I've never been in a position where an officer is contacting me like this with information which I think is damaging to the US government.

CO: Was this a person whom you knew before?

LS: Yeah. So I've known this officer for probably over 10 years. You know, I get to know many many officers at the local ports of entry. So when I received the email, I immediately knew who he was. I hadn't spoken to him for a while. But I definitely knew that he was a US officer at one of our local ports of entry.

CO: And what did this officer want to flag for you? What was the whistleblowing about?

LS: He basically laid out step by step what had happened at a local port of entry a few weekends ago when numerous applicants for entry, whether they're American or Canadian, as long as they'd been born in Iran, they were sent in for hours and hours of both interrogations and detentions before being admitted to the United States.

CO: This is something we heard about. It was covered at the time -- this was just after days after the assassination of General Soleimani. And so people were saying this happened. But the US immigration denied that people were being detained for any length of time. There was a lot of people going through that weekend, they said. Does this person contradict those statements from the government?

LS: Oh, absolutely. So what's interesting was I had two clients who were caught up in the detention. I personally was in the border and saw what was happening. And so when the US federal government denied that happened, I disagreed with that. This officer corroborates my story from a firsthand point of view. He said, you know, "Did we have a valid reason to bring in these people? No. Were these people sent in purely because of their place of birth Iran? Yes. Did we have to have a customs reason for bringing these people in? No. Were these people's constitutional rights violated? Probably."

CO: What does this person want you to do with his information? He reaches out. He finds you, identifies you, sends you detailed emails regarding this, but says that he wants to not be named. So what does he want you to do with this knowledge?

LS: I'm assuming he basically wanted to bring this information out as a whistleblower. It's interesting because one thing that everyone has to understand, the frontline officers were very polite. They were even handing out food. Some of the officers even bought pizza out of their own pockets for these individuals. So it wasn't the frontline officers who were doing this. This was someone in management took this directive or this initiative to do this, I think, unethical action, which promptly stopped the following day when word got out in the media that it was happening.

CO: And we're talking about, the Peace Arch Border Crossing in Blaine, Washington. Was there any sense in this as to whether this was isolated to that one region? Because we've heard about that that weekend and days later, this was a story that was across the country at other border crossings.

LS: Well, you'll hear about maybe one or two other ports of entry where someone of Iranian descent was detained or interrogated. Those are isolated incidents. You have to remember, this was not one or two people. This was hundreds of people. I went in there for a very short period of time, maybe 15 minutes, and I saw anywhere from 75 to 100 people. I haven't heard any since. So it's an issue. I'm surprised it hasn't been continuing -- if they're worried about security measures. But it obviously was some sort of dragnet, which was a local initiative, which is unfortunate.

CO: Yesterday on our show, we spoke with a Canadian of Iranian background, a truck driver, who was denied entry at the border in Ontario and interrogated for hours and then told he could never enter the United States again. He happens to share the same name as the General who was assassinated, even though he is no relation to him. This was January the 10th. This is far away from British Columbia. What does that tell you?

LS: Well, I can understand in a situation like that, if they have a similar name or there's a specific issue. But it's not like it happened to hundreds of people at that poor fellow's port of entry. This is what happened two weeks ago in northern Washington state.

CO: We just want to point out that we've confirmed the identity of the sender -- it was done by CBC's Sophia Harris. And agreed along with you to not reveal the identity. And we're not to quote from the emails directly so that the person can't be identified. Do you know if the person feels that this has been a successful initiative, that the word is out about this?

LS: Well, I have not spoken to them or at least emailed them for a couple of days. So I don't know. But I don't think this officer had an agenda. I think this officer was truly disturbed by what had happened and wanted the word to get out on exactly what the true facts were. So I have to give this officer a lot of credit here for doing the right thing. This is just the tip of the iceberg of situations which I've seen with regards to our local field office. And it's a slippery slope. Where does it end? Do they start profiling everyone who's African-American coming back to the US and sending them in for interrogation? Where does it end? And there has to be some accountability when actions like this are taken.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. Mr. Saunders thank you.

LS: Thank you very much. Have a great day.

CH: Len Saunders is an immigration lawyer based in Blaine, Washington, which sits right on the US border with British Columbia. We reached him today in Vancouver.

[Music]

Jerrold Nadler

CH: In the US Senate trial of Donald Trump today, Democrats tried to hoist Republican Lindsey Graham with his own petard. The petard in question was a recording of Lindsey Graham speaking passionately for the impeachment of another president, Bill Clinton, back in 1999. The strange thing is in the clip, he seems to be arguing the opposite of what his fellow Republicans have been arguing for days, that a president shouldn't be impeached if he hasn't committed a prosecutable crime. Here's House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler making his case today.

SOUNDCLIP

JERROLD NADLER: In the last ditch legal defense of their client, the president's lawyers argue that impeachment and removal are subject to statutory crimes or to offenses against established law. That the president cannot be impeached because he has not committed a crime. This view is completely wrong. It has no support in constitutional text and structure, original meeting, congressional precedents, common sense or the consensus of credible experts. In other words, it conflicts with every relevant consideration. And I might say the same thing of then House manager Lindsey Graham, who in President Clinton's trial flatly rejected the notion that impeachable offenses are limited to violations of established law. Here is what he said. [Playing audio]

LINDSEY GRAHAM: What's a high crime? How about if an important person hurts somebody of low means? It's not very scholarly, but I think it's a truth. I think that's what they meant by high crimes. Doesn't even have to be a crime. It's just when you start using your office and you're acting in a way that hurts people, you've committed a high crime. [Audio stops]

JERROLD NADLER: There are many reasons why high crimes and misdemeanors are not and cannot be limited to violations of the criminal code. We address them at lands in the briefs we have filed and the report of the House Judiciary Committee respecting these articles of impeachment. The Constitution requires that the president faithfully execute the law. A president who acts with corrupt motives, putting himself above country, has acted faithlessly, not faithfully executed the laws.

CH: That was US House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler making an argument at Donald Trump's Senate impeachment trial today. Republican Lindsey Graham was not in the chamber to hear his own remarks from 1999 played back to him.

[Music]

Jerk cat

Guest: Amber Lowery

CH: The ad does not pussyfoot around. Perdita, the cat, is a total jerk, it explains. Please, for the love of all that's holy, someone adopt her. Perdita is apparently the "world's worst cat" and currently resides at a North Carolina animal shelter. She hates, among other things: the colour pink, children, and the Dixie Chicks. And one look at her picture, you know she's trouble. Amber Lowery is the executive director of Mitchell County Animal Rescue. We reached her in Spruce Pine, North Carolina.

CO: Amber, I'm looking at a picture of your ad and I'm looking at Perdita. I'm looking into her eyes and I feel that I will never be the same. Can you describe that look of Perdita for our listeners?

AMBER LOWERY: I think she is silently judging us all. She looks at you in this way that you just have to look away sometimes.

CO: She's staring into your soul until you feel as if you may never be cheerful again. You actually put that in your ad. [Chuckles]

AL: Yes. Yes, we did. We did. We thought that was an important part of her personality was the stare that she does.

CO: Okay. You say in the ad "world's worst cat" and that "we thought she was sick, turns out she's just a jerk." How did you determine that?

AL: Well, she loves to get scratches on her head, on her forehead, and in between the ears -- you're good. But if you move to touch her anywhere else, she gets really angry and strikes out or slaps you or starts growling. So we were concerned that she was possibly in pain or she had something, you know, underlying there that we weren't seeing. So we did have her taken to the vet. The vet that we worked with had done some tests and looked at some things and said, no, we can't find anything physically wrong with her. We think you're right. She's maybe just a jerk. [Laughter]

CO: Have you ever had a vet that said anything like that before about one of your animals?

AL: We are a shelter so we get animals of all different kinds. Some are happy. Some are not. Some are stressed. And we have to deal with all kinds of animals with the most compassionate way that we can. So, yes, we have heard this before that some of our animals can be jerks. But it's okay, we find them homes anyway.

CO: You have a list of likes and dislikes for Perdita. And so along with likes, "she likes to stare into your soul until you will never be cheerful again." What were some of the other things that she likes?

AL: She liked the movie Pet Cemetery. Church is her hero -- the cat from Pet Cemetery.

CO: The evil cat?! [Laughs]

AL: Yeah. The evil cat. I mean, I think that they could be friends somewhere. I think they could do some damage together. She also likes the song Cat Scratch Fever. That's kind of her motto. She's so spirited and funny. We have really enjoyed our time with Perdita.

CO: Okay. Jump scares, this is something cats do. But that's her specialty. How does she do her jump scares?

AL: [Chuckles] Well, it's not that she jump scares. When you go to pet her, she will growl and kind of strike. And it makes you jump. I think she gets a kick out of it. [Laughter] She knows she's going to scare you. So that's her specialty: making her people scared.

CO: Lurks in dark corners.

AL: [Chuckles] She likes to hide. Definitely that makes her happy. She likes to hide. She gets a little bit uncomfortable if she's out in the open and she'll jump back in her little space and get in the back corner and settle down.

CO: And she likes to be the queen of her domicile, which is...I mean how many cats don't? I mean, is she even more exceptionally queen of a domicile?

AL: Well, I think that that's a trait that almost any cat could have. Cats love to be in control. And that's just their personalities. I think that she could give pretty much any cat a run for their money in as far as wanting to be queen.

CO: And does she give other cats, at the shelter, a run for their money?

AL: Oh, she certainly does. She keeps everyone in line. She has been known to slap a kitten or two if they're out of hands and trying to befriend her in a way that she does not appreciate. So...

CO: Kittens? She doesn't like kittens.

AL: No. Who doesn't like kittens? Perdita, I guess. [Laughter]

CO: Okay. Now, this is the killer. She doesn't like the Dixie Chicks. How did you learn that?

AL: [Laughter] Well, everyone is asking about that. And honestly, it was kind of a joke. When we clean in the cat areas in the morning and throughout the day, we like to play music for the cats because it does seem to soothe the cats and kind of keep them happy. And when we clean, we usually play the Dixie Chicks CD. And while the staff is enjoying it, Perdita just kind of gives you that look like she's not happy with us over that.

CO: I understand she has actually hissed during a Dixie Chicks song.

AL: [Laughs] Probably has hissed. Definitely growled. Maybe she's just singing along and I'm reading it wrong. I don't know.

CO: You know, the Dixie Chicks actually retweeted the tweet about your ad.

AL: Oh, no. Do they really? [Laughter]

CO: Yes. So they are onto it.

AL: I might be in trouble then. [Laughs]

CO: Okay. In fairness to Perdita, do you think that she is just a jerk by nature or do you think that something happened to make her this way?

AL: Both. I mean, honestly, Perdita's story is sad. Her owner passed away. And she was left alone for quite some time. And we had some neighbours that were feeding her and trying to take care of her. And they realized that she needed to be rescued and find a good home. So we went out and did that. And she has absolutely earned every right to be a jerk. I'm sure that she's stressed. A lot of cats just don't do well in the shelter environment. And that's okay, because we're not a home and we understand that. But I do think that her personality is strong. But it's our hope that somebody is going to prove us very wrong by adopting her and make her the sweetest cat in world.

CO: Your ad said that she's single and ready to be socially awkward with a socially awkward human who understands personal space. You might have a lot of people lining up for this cat.

AL: [Laughs] We do actually. We do. We have had probably 60 applications at this point, and phone calls all day with people being interested in her unique personality. So I feel that we're going to find her a really great home.

CO: It's very very likely. I actually know people who would adopt this cat if they could. [Laughs] Amber give a little stroke just dust between the ears to Perdita for us. And thank you. [Chuckles]

AL: We sure will. Yes. Thank you. [Chuckles]

CH: Amber Lowery is the executive director of Mitchell County Animal Rescue in Spruce Pine, North Carolina.

[Music]

Part 3: International Court of Justice: Rohingya

International Court of Justice: Rohingya

Guest: Payam Akhavan

CH: It's a milestone that's been a long time coming in a case that is still far from over. But today, the International Court of Justice issued its first ruling against Myanmar over its treatment of Rohingya Muslims. In its decision, the ICJ ruled that the case against Myanmar can proceed and that in the meantime, the South Asian nation must cease any further acts of violence and avoid any destruction of evidence. Payam Akhavan is a professor of law at McGill University and part of the legal team working on behalf of Gambia, the African nation that brought the case to the tribunal. We reached Mr. Akhavan in The Hague.

CO: Mr. Akhavan, as you know, we're still a long way from the judgment on whether genocide has occurred in Myanmar. So what does today's ruling actually accomplish?

PAYAM AKHAVAN: The Genocide Convention was adopted in 1948 in the shadow of the Holocaust. And the obligation of states are to prevent and punish. I think we would agree that the prevention of genocide is even more important than its punishment. We have to measure success by what doesn't happen. So the judgment of the court today is not about whether genocide has occurred in the past, but it is an order against Myanmar to respect its obligation to prevent genocide, to take all possible measures to ensure that genocidal acts don't occur.

CO: Okay. To clear things up for people -- what the court has been asked to rule on is whether it should condemn Myanmar for violating the genocide convention. That could take years. But in the meantime, they want an injunction to stop any more extrajudicial killings, the rape, the destruction of villages. They wanted that to stop, right?

PA: Exactly. You know, it's a bit like a restraining order against Myanmar. And about a million Rohingya have already led to neighbouring Bangladesh, where there are refugees. And thousands have been killed or subject to horrific sexual violence. But 600,000 Rohingya remain in Myanmar's Rakhine state. So today's judgment is about those 600,000 people. It's about protecting them against genocidal acts. It's a remarkable kind of instance of trying to achieve deterrence through the world court by letting Myanmar know that the world is watching. Myanmar is under a legally binding obligation to take all necessary measures to ensure that genocidal acts don't occur.

CO: But as you know, Myanmar denies that there are any genocidal acts. In fact, we heard from civilian leader Aung San Suu Kyi stating that quite clearly, she's written in the Financial Times that this is not occurring. So to say to Myanmar, you must stop genocidal acts when they say they're not committing it. So what does it really accomplish?

PA: Well, of course, Myanmar will deny that there is any risk of genocide occurring. And the judgment of the court today is not about whether genocide has occurred, but whether there is a credible and serious risk of genocidal acts occurring in the future. So it doesn't matter if Myanmar believes that there is no risk, because now the principal judicial organ of the United Nations have spoken and it has spoken unanimously. It is very rare for all 17 judges of the court to speak with one voice. I think that the fact that Aung San Suu Kyi showed up personally in court to defend Myanmar is a very positive and promising sign that Myanmar cares. So while, you know, there is no army that's going to go in and enforce the decisions of the court, Myanmar, like any other country in the world has to think about its legitimacy and influence, inextricably interdependent world. And I think the stigma of being held responsible for committing genocide is a very serious liability for Myanmar. And my hope is that they will now take seriously the decision of the court to take measures to prevent this sort of horrific atrocities which the Rohingya have been subject to over the past month.

CO: And what about the evidence of genocide and genocidal acts? Is that something that they are now ordered to protect?

PA: Yes. Myanmar must also preserve evidence of genocide for future prosecution. So, as I said, there is an obligation to prevent and there is an obligation to punish the crime of genocide. So this will be yet another aspect of the issue. And of course, one of the problems is that when the Rohingya population are killed and otherwise removed from their lands, their lands are very often confiscated. So I think this will now send a very clear signal that in addition to committing atrocities against civilians, bulldozing entire villages, and removing the evidence of what is in effect the scene of the crime is also a violation of Myanmar's obligations.

CO: We know that earlier this week, Myanmar's government has a panel it had appointed to to investigate these charges -- and concluded that the army was just in a war and that these were acts of war. There may have been war crimes committed. There may have been some violations of human rights. They will find those responsible and punish them. And as far as they're concerned, there was, quote, "no genocidal intent." So they believe that this is resolved in Myanmar.

PA: Well, of course, we have to ask ourselves, what is the credibility of a so-called independent commission of inquiry that has held that there is no credible evidence of rape or sexual violence? Where the United Nations fact finding mission -- having interviewed over 1000 witnesses -- came to the conclusion that there was horrific systematic use of gang rape, terrible terrible forms of sexual violence. So when the commission of inquiry in Myanmar finds that there is no evidence of rape or sexual violence, you have to ask yourself, is this anything more than whitewash? And Myanmar has to be told that this suggestion that, you know, they're isolated and random instances of war crimes here and there, but that the Tatmadaw, Myanmar military, is otherwise behaving itself, is simply not credible.

CO: We should point out to people that the court we're talking about, the court that made this ruling is the International Court of Justice, which settles legal disputes internationally and gives legal opinions to questions posed by the United Nations. But it's not the criminal court. Is it? The International Criminal Court is the one that actually will prosecute people for committing genocide. So why isn't this before -- you said a thousand witnesses of rape and sexual violence, hundreds of thousands of Rohingya who are in in exile, lots of evidence -- why is this not before the International Criminal Court at this point?

PA: It's a very good question. The International Court of Justice is complementing that procedure before the International Criminal Court. And we have to bear in mind that although the International Court of Justice only deals with state or government responsibility, an aspect of that responsibility is to punish, to prosecute those who have committed the crime of genocide. So I think that it's important to use all these different accountability mechanisms to exert maximum pressure so that Myanmar takes seriously its obligations under international law.

CO: We will leave it there for now Mr. Akhavan. And I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you.

PA: Thank you.

CH: Payam Akhavan is part of the legal team representing Gambia as it brings Myanmar before the International Court of Justice on accusations of genocide. We reached Mr. Akhavan in The Hague.

[Music]

From our Archives: Space cat statue

CH: Maybe it's because they just grabbed her off the street. Or maybe probably she was a bit standoffish. But we're still talking about Laika the dog and Ham the chimpanzee going to space. And you hardly ever hear about Felicette the cat. In 1963, Felicette became the first cat to experience the weightlessness of space. Not that she got much credit for it. So two years ago, Matthew Guy set out to fix that. He started a crowdfunding campaign to build a statue in Felicette's honor. Now that statue is complete. It was unveiled last month at the International Space University in Strasbourg. It's bronze and it's big. 170 centimeters tall or about five and a half feet. And it depicts the Parisian cat on top of a globe, gazing toward the stars. Back in 2017, Matthew Guy spoke with Carol on As It Happens about Felicette. From our archives, here's part of their conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

MSG: I do know is that she was kind of a Parisian cat. It’s unknown whether she was purchased from a pet dealer or she found on the streets as a stray. In terms of how she got selected for the mission, again there are conflicting stories of whether she was simply the best cat for the job, like she had the most calm demeanor, and was therefore most suitable to be strapped into a rocket. And there's other stories about simply she was the cat that put on the least weight so she could actually fitinto the capsule. And there's another story about, apparently a male cat named Felix was supposed to do the mission, but then he ran away the morning of the mission, and Félicette stepped in.

CO: Good for Felix.

MSG: It’s hard to know if he ever existed at all. Some statements say that he's just kind of like an artifact of the story being twisted over the years.

CO: What happened to Félicette after she came back from space?

MSG: So she landed 15 minutes after takeoff and was discovered by a helicopter recovery team in Algeria. And then she was flown back to the Paris lab of the French space agency and they kind of kept her under observation for a while and then, because of wanting to know the effects of space on a living organism, she was a put to sleep.

CO: They put her to sleep, you mean they euthanized her, they killed her. And then they tried to find out what effect their space had had on her after she was dead.

MSG: Yeah, on her brain, that's kind of like part the reason I suggested a statue, just for the kind of memorial aspects of it, but not just to Félicette but it's kind of like all of the unwilling participants of the space race, because ultimately they didn’t know what they were doing.

CH: That was Matthew Serge Guy speaking with Carol back in November 2017. A statue of Felicette the space cat was finally unveiled last month at the International Space University in Strasbourg.

[Music]

Northern Cree nomination

Guest: Steve Wood

CH: The members of "Northern Cree" have been to the Grammys before. Eight times, in fact. But Steve Wood says it never gets old and they never stop hoping they'll actually win. Mr. Wood and his brothers founded the drum and singing group in Maskwacis, Alberta nearly 40 years ago now. And today, once again, they're headed to LA with their drums in tow. We reached Steve Wood before their departure in Maskwacis -- outside Edmonton.

CO: Steve, do you think this could be the year? All those nominations turn into a win for "Northern Cree?"

STEVE WOOD: I hope so. Yeah. There's no way to know. But like, you know, besides not getting the win, it's already done momentous things for not just us, but for First Nations traditional music and First Nations people in general. So that's a good thing.

CO: And I want to get to what it's done for you and what it means. The Grammys --you've (been nominated) eight times already. This would be your ninth time at the awards. Do they lose their charm after a while? Does it become kind of routine?

SW: Well, yeah in some cases. But every year is a new experience. Like you never know who you're going to bump into and who you're going to meet. I mean, that one year when we went, we didn't know we're going to get on The Tonight Show. It just happened. And we got in. And we got to shoot debris with Jay Leno which was pretty darn cool.

CO: Well, also, I think that it's pretty cool for people at the Grammys when Northern Cree takes part in it because you always wow them on the red carpet with what you wear.

SW: Well, we've learned a lot. You know, our first time that we went, we didn't even have an inkling that we'd ever go there. And then, bang, we got nominated for Native American Music category that they had before, which has since been dissolved and amalgamated into other categories. And when we got nominated, we'd only seen it on television. And what we seen was people in suits. So that's what we dressed up in.

CO: Right. But not after that. You didn't do that again?

SW: No, never. That was a big mistake. [Laughs] After that, we don't do that. We dress-up like us. So when we enter the red carpet, I'm sure people are going to turn their heads because like, you know, people are always looking for something different, something they haven't seen before. And I'm sure that they haven't seen anything like this on the red carpet before.

CO: Okay. That's a tease. Can you give us any little clues as to what you are going to do?

SW: Like I said, we're going to dress up and represent our people.

CO: I know that you said in the past that when you dress in suits, no one talks to you.

SW: That's right. Because basically we're just like everybody else. But like when you dress like who you really are and it's different from people, they approach you. That's what happened the next year that we went. And we didn't wear the tuxedos and that. We had this very popular mainstream musician come right up to the biggest guy in our group, and he looked like he was afraid of her because she was touching his arm and all she wanted to do was touch what he had on. And she was asking up, "Where did you get these?" "Where did you buy these from?" You know, we didn't buy them. We have it made.

CO: Was it beadwork that you were wearing at that point?

SW: Actually the first time that we went we were all wearing like -- I mean, the second time -- ribbon shirts and medallions. But we've upped it since then. And we always wear moccasins when we get on stage. So we wear moccasins on the red carpet. They're fully beaded moccasins. You know, we look different.

CO: You mentioned that the category Native American Music Album, which is where you were nominated before, that doesn't exist anymore. This nomination is under their Regional Roots Music Album. What does that shift mean for Northern Cree? Do you think it will change things for your band?

SW: Well, after they dissolved that Native American Music category, I didn't think we'd ever get back there. Lo and behold, we got nominated in a different category three or four times now. There was probably -- how many submissions? Maybe a couple hundred submissions or more to this category. And we made the top five? That's pretty spectacular. Then if we win? Well, it only gives us more notoriety, but it also lends itself to, again, our traditional music and the image of our people.

CO: You have all kept your day jobs, right? Everyone in Northern Cree and the band.

SW: We have a few people in university. And like some of us are educators. We have one guy in real estate. We have a band administrator. We have a guy in orthodontics. Sometimes we're invited to educational functions where we introduce ourselves and we let him know that we have careers as well.

CO: But if you were to win this time around, would it change things? Would that mean a shift in your career plans?

SW: Well, I have no idea. We played some real big stages. I mean, we were at the New Orleans Jazz Festival the last couple of years, you know. I remember being in London opening for The Tragically Hip and I remember getting out on that stage and there was like 50,000 people there as far as the eye could see. And they had these big screens and my palms were just sweating like crazy. [Laughter] We got out there. And I'm the front guy so I talk to the audience. And I talked to them in my language. You know, when you're talking, you can hear a pin drop because they don't know what the heck you're saying. And then we switched over into English and I'll tell them, you know, I'll get to the point -- well, you know, this is music like anything else, but this ain't disco, this ain't hip hop, this ain't rock and roll. And then we start playing the song and the lyrics come on, and it's an English, and they just start screaming. And it was unbelievable. And it just turned into like a rock concert. It was like, wow.

CO: Well, we're going to play something from the album that's nominated "When It's Cold" so people can know what you're talking about and how the people react to it. And it's really good to talk to you. Best of luck to Northern Cree.

SW: Thank you very much. I just want to say [speaking in Cree language]. Thank you very much.

CO: All right. Thank you so much, Steve.

CH: Steve Wood co-founded the drum and singing group Northern Cree with his brothers Randy and Earl in 1982. We reached him in Maskwacis, Alberta. The group's latest album, "When It's Cold" is up for Regional Roots Music Album of the Year at the Grammys this weekend.

[Music]

Doomsday Clock

CH: The world is ending. You've got a little over a minute and a half to save it. What do you do? That might sound like the tagline for an action movie starring Bruce Willis circa 1999, but it's actually the latest warning from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. The group is made up of scientists, journalists, political and religious leaders and activists around the world. 2020 will mark the 75th year they've been setting the symbolic Doomsday clock. Midnight represents the end of the world as we know it. And this year they've set it closer to 12 o'clock than ever before. Here's the CEO of the Bulletin, Dr. Rachel Bronson, explaining why, earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

RACHEL BRONSON: We are here this morning to update you on the Doomsday Clock and our concerns about the challenges posed by manmade threats to our existence. The Science and Security Board of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists sets the Doomsday clock each year to help answer two questions: Is humanity safer or at greater risk this year compared to last year? And this year, compared to the nearly 75 years we have been setting the symbolic clock. Since its inception, the Bulletin's Doomsday clock has been measured in minutes and was set two minutes to midnight in 2018 -- the closest it had been to midnight since 1953, a time when both the US and the Soviet Union had tested hydrogen bombs. It has been set as far away from midnight as 17 minutes to midnight at the end of the Cold War. When the board kept the clock at two minutes to midnight in 2019, we argued then that the global situation was abnormal and that this new abnormal was simply too volatile and too dangerous to accept as a continuing state of world affairs. Today, we feel no more optimistic. In fact, both the nuclear and climate conditions are worsening. And we note that over the last two years we have seen influential leaders denigrate and discard the most effective methods for addressing complex threats. International agreements with strong verification regimes in favor of their own narrow interests and domestic political gain. By undermining cooperative science and law-based approaches to managing the most urgent threats to humanity, leaders have helped to create a situation that will, if unaddressed, lead to catastrophe sooner rather than later. It would be a privilege and an honor to move the hands of the Doomsday clock away from midnight, but our current situation does not warrant that. To move the clock closer to midnight, moves us into a period that requires newfound vigilance and focus from leaders and citizens alike as if every second matters. Today, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists moved the hands of the Doomsday Clock. It is 100 seconds to midnight.

CH: Dr. Rachel Bronson, the CEO of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, explaining why the group has sprung the Doomsday clock, forward to 100 seconds to midnight.

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January 23, 2020 Episode Transcript

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