Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2020

The AIH Transcript for January 14, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: The weight of waiting. As Iran promises to punish those responsible for the downing of Flight 752, one family is still waiting for information on their loved ones remains — and they may have to hold a funeral without her body.

CH: Trust, but verify. That's how Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister sums up his government's approach to Iran — insisting that Ottawa will hold the regime accountable for its promises and judge it by its actions.

CO: Poked by the bear. President Trump's road to impeachment began with him seeking information on a Ukrainian oil and gas company — which according to an American security firm — was recently hacked by Russian intelligence.

CH: Out, but not down. After sheriffs in Oakland California evict a group of homeless mothers from a vacant house they were occupying, the women vow that their fight is far from over.

CO: In Canada, you say? Pity. The Globe & Mail's chief editorial writer says Canada should deny Harry and Meghan's request to live half of their time in this country because it threatens our democracy.

CH: And… variations on a scheme. News that a fugitive business tycoon smuggled himself out of Japan in a musical instrument case prompts Yamaha to issue a warning to copycat customers: do not try this at home

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that prefers to be on the case, rather than in it.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Iran: sister, Iran: Champagne, Globe & Mail Royals editorial

Iran: sister

Guest: Guest

CH: Iran says those who are responsible for the Flight 752 crash will be punished. The country's judiciary say several arrests have been laid, after an Iranian missile shot down the Ukrainian Airlines plane last week, killing 176 people. Today, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani called for a special court to investigate the crash, saying, quote, "this is not an ordinary case. The entire world will be watching this court." Unquote. Well, our next guest is watching — from outside Iran. Her sister, an Iranian student studying at a Canadian university, was killed in the crash. And we're not naming our guest, or the victim, to protect the safety of their parents, who are still in Iran. We're also protecting her exact location.

CO: First of all, I'm so sorry about the loss of your sister.

GUEST: Thank you.

CO: What has this week been like for you?

GUEST: I don't know what to say. It's a difficult time for me and my family.

CO: You and your siblings are not in Iran, but your parents are in Iran, is that right?

GUEST: Yes, yes, they are in Iran. But three of us are out of Iran.

CO: What's going on with your parents? How are they dealing with this since the crash in Iran?

GUEST: They are experiencing the most tragic moments and hours of our lives. My mom, my dad, they are not good at all, at all. We talked to them. They see their photos. My mom can't eat, can't sleep. And we are worried — really worried — about their health and about their condition. And we are not there to help them, to do anything for them.

CO: I understand your mom and dad want to plan a funeral for your sister this week. Of course, they do. So how are those plans going?

GUEST: Honestly, we were waiting to hear from the government about the bodies to know what to do about the funeral. But they didn't tell us, and we didn't know what to do. So they planned and decided to arrange a funeral in this coming Thursday without hearing anything.

CO: What is the Iranian government telling them about your sister's remains then?

GUEST: They didn't tell us anything. They just said, two days after the incident, they called them to do the DNA test. After that, we didn't hear anything. But I myself heard that a group from Canada, they have gone to Iran. I called them and asked them if there is anything remaining? Because they're thinking that nothing is left and everything is exploded. And they told me that there is something remained, but there are some of them are horrible. Some of them are in better condition. But so far, we haven't known anything about my sister's body.

CO: Your sister was not a Canadian citizen. She was studying in Canada. But will Canada help you to get answers, and to help your mom and dad recover remains if they can to have them interned? Is Canada going to help you with that?

GUEST: I don't know because they couldn't to talk to my family because they can't speak English. Even I asked them if they want to talk to my parents. They said at the moment they haven't got the full-time interpreter.

CO: So Canadians who are on the ground don't yet have an interpreter who can help?

GUEST: Yes.

CO: Will your parents go ahead with the funeral even if they can't recover your sister's body?

GUEST: Yes, yes.

CO: And how difficult is that going to be for your family?

GUEST: I can't say it's not easy. It's much more than difficult. I can't express in the words to how difficult it is. It's really bad situation that you lost somebody that you even haven't got anything from her or him. And it's not just my sister; there are 175 more people like my sister.

CO: How would you describe the way that the government of Iran has been treating your parents? Have they had a visit from the government?

GUEST: Yes, some of them went to my parents. And my dad has told them that you are my guest. I accept you as my guest. But I don't accept you as a government member. You don't have to do any filming or recording or anything. But after that, they published some photos about their meeting to show that they with them, and we want them to think we agreed with them. But they didn't have the permission.

CO: They took photos and they publish them to say what?

GUEST: They want to show that it's not true that we don't care about their families of victims. They want to show some kind of show-off.

CO: So they wanted some positive publicity about what they're doing for the families then?

GUEST: Exactly, yes.

CO: And your parents did not agree to that?

GUEST: No, no, not at all, not at all.

CO: But they did it anyways?

GUEST: Yes, without the permission.

CO: We spoke with an Iranian-Canadian doctor yesterday, who says that even though he's in Iran and worried about if he can get out of the country when he wants to, he feels that he has to speak out — that this is just such a huge injustice that Iran shot down this plane that they have to speak out. Do you feel that way? Do you share that view of the doctor that we spoke with?

GUEST: I have the same feeling because I can't stay silent. And I like to show other people, other countries, to show the world, that what they did to us.

CO: What do you want from Canada? What do you need from this country in order to help you get through this?

GUEST: As the family of a victim, the only thing that I want to at this time, and I wont stop wanting it, is to know whose fault was that? And the justice. We just need the justice, that's it.

CO: How difficult is it for you and your siblings to be not in Iran, not to be with your parents this week?

GUEST: Of course, our heart is there. It's very difficult for us not being there to be next to our family, to share our feelings together. But there is no choice. We can't do anything.

CO: We are all hoping to get answers to the questions you have. And my sympathies, our sympathies, go to you and your family. Please pass that on to your parents.

GUEST: Thank you so much.

CO: And thank you for speaking with us.

GUEST: Thank you.

CH: That was our conversation with a woman whose sister died when Ukrainian Airlines Flight 752 was shot down in Iran last week. We're not naming our guest, or her sister, to protect their family's safety in Iran.

Iran: Champagne

Guest: Francois-Philippe Champagne

CH: Francois-Philippe Champagne is Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Minister Champagne, we just heard from a woman who lost her sister in the crash. She says that what she wants Canada to do is to pursue justice. What do you say to her and those families?

FRANCOID-PHILIPPE CHAMPAGNE: Well, listen, I spent the full day with families — families who are grieving, families who are expressing anger, families who have questions, who deserve answers. My message to her is that we will be unwavering in our support to seek justice, to seek full accountability, to make sure that the wish of the families are respected with respect to the remains. We will be unwavering in asking the questions, so that people can get closure, they can get compensation, they can get as grieving families as much as we can do as Canadian government to help us help them go through this crisis.

CO: What does full accountability mean?

FPC: Well, certainly, we have been, as you know, the first priority has been to help the families. And the first thing we did was to make sure that we would have our team on the ground in Tehran, that we’d open consular services across Canada in five cities, that we would obviously provide all the information to the family. But in parallel to that, we made sure that we have our investigator on-site to conduct the investigation. We have two TSB agents, which are currently in Tehran, working with the Iranian authorities. My motto is trust, but verify. I don't judge the Iranian government by their words. I judge them by their actions. And so we're going to pursue full justice. And we're going to make sure that first, we understand the full cause of the crash, that we understand who committed this horrible crime, and that these people are prosecuted in accordance with the highest standards of the law. And we want to be part of that investigation.

CO: Right. So Iran has announced it has arrested people in the downing of the Ukrainian craft. They say that — President Hassan Rouhani — said that the judiciary would form a special court with a ranking judge, dozens of experts. He says this is not an ordinary case, the entire world will be watching this court. Is that what full accountability looks like to you? Is that what you're pursuing?

FPC: Well, what I say it seems to be the words that go in that direction. But what I want to see, Carol, is actions. I will be judging, the world will be judging, the international committee will be judging Iran based on action. So I saw that today. But I remain always on the watch to see what's going to happen next. And certainly, Canada will be one part of the investigation at every step of the way because families deserve justice. Families deserve answers. And we will pursue that, not only is Canada, but you know we have created an international response group — which is going to meet in London. We're going to speak with one voice for the victims, and we will continue to pursue that to the fullest extent.

CO: Canada is saying there are 57 Canadian citizens who died in that plane. I'm sure you've heard that the Iranian state media is saying there were just three Canadians onboard Flight 752. Because of the dual citizenship, they don't recognize those who hold two passports. So what effect is that going to have on your ability to help those Canadians if Iran doesn't acknowledge that they are Canadians?

FPC: Well, I would say it's nonsense. From the first moment we heard that, we pushed back. We said a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian. So these people deserve the protection — the consular protection of Canada. We have pushed, and I've been in contact with the Iranian Foreign Minister today to make sure that the wish of the families are taken into account. That you know the remains are you know whether people want to repatriate the remains in Canada or that type of burial that they want. That we respect the wish of families, and we will continue to push for that and offer all consular assistance to Canadians. We will not accept that position. And we have already pushed back and been very, very clear to the Iranian regime that this is not going to hold. I think the world is watching. And under the circumstances, I would expect — and I demand — that Iran would obviously respect what Canada wants when it comes to its own citizens.

CO: We heard Prime Minister Trudeau, he said that if there were no tensions, if there was no escalation in the region, those Canadians would be right now home with their families. And Iran is not alone in creating that tension, so what responsibility does Washington have to bear? Not criminal responsibility, but what responsibility do you want Washington to accept for this escalation that created these conditions?

FPC: I would say all our efforts, Carol, now are helping the families — and making sure that the remains are dealt with with the wish of the family. There will be a lot of time to assess the conclusion of the expert report with respect to the cause and assign responsibility. But for the time being, you will appreciate that we spent our days… I spent my afternoon grieving with families, listening to them, making sure that every needs they have as a whole of government that we can respond to that. And that will remain my priority. And there'll be time later on to assess you know the responsibility for the horrendous act that occurred.

CO: And when you do have a full sense of that responsibility, if that should come to pass, and you're determined you say to get that. But if you find that that crash extends beyond these people who have been arrested in Iran — that there are military or even political leaders, there are people very, very high up in the authority chain of Iran that you identify that. How far is the Canadian government willing to go to pursue justice? What price are you willing to pay on the world stage for that?

FPC: Well, I would say we would hold them to account whoever they might be. And it's not just Canada I can assure you that the international coordination and response group is seeking the same thing. And I would say even beyond that you may recall one of the first interview I was saying where people were asking me what is Iran doing? I'd say, you know what, whatever they do, the world is watching. And you know what's going on now people are judging each and every move that the Iranian government is doing. The first thing initially was denial, then they accepted responsibility, we want them to accept full responsibility, and we will pursue justice to the end. And hold whomever as caused or has contributed to this horrific, tragic situation that we're facing that they pay for what they have done.

CO: Minister Champagne, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

FPC: Thank you very much for having me.

CH: Francois-Philippe Champagne is Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs. We reached him in Toronto. Stephen Harper wasn't disguising his disdain for Iran's rulers today. The former Prime Minister was speaking at a conference in New Delhi. Here's some of what he had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

STEPHEN HARPER: You know, in Canada, we just suffered tremendous loss of life as a consequence of the Iranian actions shooting down Ukrainian Airlines flight. And this is obviously… In my country right now, it's a subject of great sorrow. And I want to give my condolences to all the families affected. I think it's also the subject of great anger. I don't think any of us believe that Iran would have deliberately shot down an aircraft. But the very fact that Iran believing such a thing could happen would be allowing normal civilian traffic, I think tells you something about the nature of that regime and its priorities. And you know I do believe we need to see a change in Iran if we are going to see peace in the Middle East. I see an increasing number of states in the region, Israel that I'm close to the, certainly the Sunni-Arab monarchies, others who are increasingly trying to work together and see a common future and common interests. And you have this one actor that quite frankly is you know based on religious fanaticism and regional imperialism. And as I say as a friend of the Jewish people frankly an anti-Semitic state. And I think if somehow if there is any way through the protests in Iran or the consequences of this that Iran could go on a better trajectory, I think that would be very core to resolving the problems of the Middle East. Certainly not resolve them all overnight, but I think without a change in the nature of the government of Tehran, the Middle East will continue to be in turmoil.

CH: That was former Prime Minister Stephen Harper speaking at a conference in New Delhi.

[Music: Instrumental]

Globe & Mail Royals editorial

Guest: Tony Keller

KG: Tony Keller has one word for the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. And that word is: "No." Mr. Keller is the editor of the editorial page at the Globe & Mail. And he says Canadians should not welcome the news that Harry and Meghan plan to move, part time, to our neck of the Commonwealth. We also shouldn't welcome them. The Queen officially OK'd the idea yesterday. And Prime Minister Trudeau has suggested that negotiations are underway. But Mr. Keller believes that having the no-longer-quite-so-senior royals around could represent a threat to Canadian democracy. We reached Tony Keller in Toronto.

CO: Tony, what makes Harry and Meghan dangerous to Canadian democracy?

TONY KELLER: So we have a long standing understanding of how monarchy works in Canada. It's kind of complicated. But we have a monarchy. We have a queen. But on the other hand, we have, unusually, a monarch — a queen — who doesn't live in Canada. Family members don't live in Canada. And we have this, I think, the system works because there is that distance. The way I've described it is Canada has a virtual monarchy and a virtual crown. And there's actually something wonderful and effective about it. It really reduces the level of arguments that we can have over it.

CO: But you go beyond just a technical reason why they shouldn't. I mean, [chuckling] this is a pretty harsh editorial. You say the Sussexes as are working out their own personal issues, and Canada wishes them the best of luck. But if you're a senior member of a royal family, this country cannot become your home. Canada is not a halfway house for anyone looking to get out of Britain while remaining a royal. That's pretty harsh, don't you think?

TK: I don't know it's harsh. I think it's kind of accurate. It had ever been suggested in the past that a member of the royal family — senior members of the royal family, “Prince and Princess So-And-So” — moved to Canada. It would have been problematic in the past because the relationship was evolving between Canada and Britain. We were trying to figure out how does this all work? The relationship we've ended up with is Britain is just a foreign country with which we have wonderful relations, and we happen to share a monarch with Britain. And this sort of muddies all of that.

CO: [chuckles] Well, the Queen announced on Monday that her grandson — the Duke and his wife, Duchess of Sussex — are going to spend part of their year in Canada. She has given it her blessing. Can she actually do that? Is it that simple?

TK: [trying not to laugh] If they were regular, normal members of the royal family who wanted to make a royal visit to Canada, there'd be this communication between the Canadian government and the Crown. The Canadian government and these members of the royal family, and then the government in the royal family would sort of figure out when was the appropriate time for the visit. You know, this happens regularly, weather whether it's the Queen or other members of the royal family coming to Canada. This is the head-scratching part because we're dealing with some members of the royal family who are sort of saying they don't want to be members of the royal family anymore, but they also do want to remain members of the royal family. They're not they're not abdicating. They're not surrendering their titles and becoming just regular people. But they're also not remaining entirely within the royal family. So it's a bit confusing how all this is supposed to work.

CO: And what would the status be — because UK citizens are allowed to come to Canada for visits up to six months.

TK: Right.

CO: But they can't they can't be working. They can visit for that long. They they've said they want to set up a business. They want to become independent, at the same time to keep a foot in the royal camp. So what happens then? [chuckling] I mean, could you run that one through? Do they end up paying taxes here, and do they have to become citizens to do that?

TK: [chuckle] It does seem to me that they're they are attempting to do something that could be you know perfectly legal for regular visitors from Great Britain to do — which is to come to Canada for six months, and then leave in a period under six months and then come back for another visit. But if they're actually attempting to operate a business in Canada, that's going to create tax issues and immigration issues. On the other hand, if they're operating a business that is outside of Canada while they just happen to be visiting Canada, that's not going to create any immigration issue. So yeah, they may have to finesse this [both chuckle]. It may have to be finessed exactly what they are doing here and how long they are staying and for what purposes.

CO: Your columnist John Ibbotson says that they might end up trying to be queue-jumpers — which, of course, Canadians take a dim look at. And that really when you look at Prince Harry, the score he would have if he wanted to be an immigrant to Canada, he wouldn't do well, would he? He's an older person when he's in his 30s. He doesn't get points for that. He has apparently no formal post-secondary education. So do you think that there's another way they could just come in? I know you're not immigration lawyer.

TK: Yes. Yeah.

CO: But, I mean, what hoops might they have to jump through?

TK: It would be it would be challenging for them to immigrate to Canada — particularly if Harry were to be the one who was the primary immigrant applicant. On the other hand, his wife Meghan might actually make a much better immigration application or an application for permission to remain in Canada and work because she did work in Canada for many years as an actor on a successful television show. We don't really know the details of her immigration status and how she got into Canada and how she remains in Canada. But she would seem to have actually a better shot at a permanent resident application than he would [laughing]. And again, that assumes they want to remain permanent residents of Canada. It sort of looks more like Canada is just the stopping point between the UK and the United States.

CO: Tony, we'll leave it there. Of course, this is going to go on. And I appreciate speaking with you today.

TK: Thanks very much, Carol.

CO: Bye.

TK: Bye-bye.

CH: Tony Keller is the editor of the editorial page at the Globe & Mail. We reached him in Toronto.

[Music: Indie rock]

Yamaha instrument cases

CH: Carlos Ghosn was in a tight spot. And if the latest reports prove true, he got out of it by squeezing himself into an even tighter one. Last November, the former head of Nissan and Renault was placed under house arrest in Tokyo. Then, just before the New Year, Mr. Ghosn vanished — before reappearing in Beirut. He hasn't disclosed how he managed to get out of Japan. But reports now indicate he did it enclosed in a large audio equipment case. A story in The Wall Street Journal said that such a case was discovered at the back of a private jet, believed to have smuggled Mr. Ghosn out of Japan. Whatever the case [sigh], the tale of Mr. Ghosn's dramatic escape has inspired some musicians to escape the boredom of practising — by posting photos of themselves climbing into their own empty instrument cases. That's sort of funny. But not to Yamaha's wind instrument division — which was moved to issue this plea on Twitter, quote, "Please do not do this. Musical instrument and audio equipment cases are designed to hold musical instruments and audio equipment. Please use them correctly." Unquote. It's sound advice — humourless, but sound. And hopefully, it will help to draw a few musicians out of their shells.

[Music: Indie rock]

Part two: Oakland homeless, Burisma hack

Oakland homeless

Guest: Dominique Walker

CH: When Dominique Walker moved back to Oakland, she knew it would be tough to find a place to live. But she never expected it would take so long to find a home. She also likely never expected that she and her kids would be squatting in it. But in November, Ms. Walker and a group of moms moved their families into a vacant home in West Oakland — one belonging to a property management company. When that company filed an eviction notice, the moms went to court, filing a right to possession claim. They lost — and today, the sheriff arrived, and the families were evicted. We reached Dominique Walker in Oakland, California.

CO: Dominique, you knew this moment was coming eventually. But how are you feeling today after you've been evicted from this house on Magnolia Street?

DOMINIQUE WALKER: [deep sigh]I feel like we never expected this system to rule in our favour. Because we know that it was set up to protect the wealthy and their property. So we were just waiting on the day. And that happened early this morning.

CO: Right, tell us what happened — because some of your supporters were arrested in this. What exactly happened after the sheriff arrived?

DW: I was not present. I was actually on Democracy Now, live. And we had to end the show and rush back to Magnolia Street. I believe that they broke down the door and came in the house and arrested folks — two of our supporters and two of our moms.

CO: But there were a lot of people who had gathered to support you at the house, right?

DW: That was the previous night. So last night, around six o'clock, we saw sheriffs driving around. We sent out a mass text to our supporters. In a matter of 15 minutes, there were 300-plus people ready to defend Mom's House.

CO: What do you mean when you say Mom's House? Describe what you're referring to?

DW: The house on 2928 Magnolia Street. We call it Mom's House.

CO: And how did you come to live in that house on Magnolia Street?

DW: Being homeless with our children, and going through what they say are the proper channels when you need some kind of assistance and finding no help. This was an act of desperation of mothers who have the courage to stand up for their children. We've had enough, and we're like-minded. Everyone I met when I moved back to California in April were going through the same thing as me. So I know that it wasn't a coincidence.

CO: You moved back to California with your… how old are your kids?

DW: I have a one-year-old son and a five-year-old daughter.

CO: And where were you living? How were you living before you found this house?

DW: With different family members. My family is displaced like so many others who were born and raised in Oakland. So I was staying with a family member in Stockton. And then, I moved with a family member in Ingot, and I was staying at different hotels around Oakland and the Bay Area.

CO: And what effect did that have on your kids?

DW: Homelessness affects your physical health, your mental health, and brain development in children. So being sheltered has helped my children so much. My son took his first steps in the house on Magnolia Street. He said his first words in that house. My daughter celebrated her fifth birthday in that house. I've seen my children develop just from having shelter. It is a basic need. It’s a basic human right. We should have shelter for all of our children.

CO: The house is owned by a company called Wedgwood Property Management. Why was it empty? What was going on with that house?

DW: The house had been vacant for over two-and-a-half years. Wedgwood recently bought it for 500,000 dollars. Wedgwood is composed of different companies who are have a hand in mass-displacement of people and communities. They profit off the foreclosure crisis. They fix and flip them. And their main objective is to either hold them until they can profit from them, or flip them for a price that folks from Oakland can't afford. But they wouldn't sell us the house. We occupied the house, but we also offered to purchase the home for the price they paid for it through our Oakland community land trust. They refused to sell the house to us. This house means nothing to them. They have a catalogue of properties that they own.

CO: But they say that, nonetheless, it is theirs. And someone representing Wedgwood told you you were stealing it, that you had no business being there. What do you say to them?

DW: They have no business being in our communities. They're profiting off of harm. They have blood on their hands.

CO: What do you mean by that?

DW: They play a hand in the mass-displacement of people. And companies like this are the reason that folks are living on the street and dying.

CO: But they said that they wouldn't sell you the house unless you moved out. That they were not going to negotiate anything with you as long as you were there. What do you say to them?

DW: That is a absolute lie. Because they've also said that they wanted to sell it to a first-time home buyer, and wanted a nonprofit to fix it up. So there's two different things that they're saying. I'm not clear on which one that they are sticking to.

CO: They've also offered to help you to find housing, going to charities in order to make that happen. Why don't you accept that?

DW: They offered to pay for two months at a shelter. I've never heard of a shelter where you have to pay to be there. So that offer is not only false, we reached out to Catholic charities who they named, and they said that they did not accept that offer. And they specifically told them that two months was not enough for the mothers.

CO: What's happened with the house now? Can you get access to it? Can you get your things out of it?

DW: Yes, I will be collecting my belongings in the next day or so.

CO: But you can't live there anymore?

DW: No.

CO: Where are you going to go?

DW: We have a place to stay tonight. Folks have offered us places to stay. It was never about this one house. It's about all un-housed folks. That's what this movement is about. This is the new civil rights movement — the movement for housing for all.

CO: Dominique, I appreciate speaking with you.

DW: Thank you.

CO: Goodnight.

CH: Dominique Walker is the founder of Moms 4 Housing — and part of a group of moms who took over a vacant home in Oakland, California. We reached her in Oakland.

Trans YouTuber

CH: Since Nikkie de Jager started sharing makeup tutorials on YouTube 11 years ago, she's become one of the most popular beauty vloggers on the site. In her videos that have been viewed one-point-two billion times, the Dutch 25-year-old has also shared bits and pieces of her personal life. But there was one thing she kept private after she became a YouTube star. When Ms. de Jager started her channel "Nikkie Tutorials" at 14 years old, she was also beginning another transition in her life. Yesterday, in a video titled "I'm Coming Out," Nikkie de Jager revealed that she is transgender. Here she is explaining to her viewers why she's finally talking about it.

SOUNDCLIP

NIKKIE DE JAGER: I am me. I am still Nikkie. Nothing changes about that. The last thing I want in my life is for you to not trust me anymore, or to look at me with different eyes, or look at me in a different manner, or think that I have changed. I have changed in a bit because, damn, this feels liberating and freeing. But I, at the end of the day, am still Nikkie. I've always wanted to share this side of my story with you. I just wanted to do it under my conditions. But apparently, we live in a world where other people hate on people that are truly themselves. I have been blackmailed by people that wanted to leak my story to the press. And at first, it was frightening. It was frightening to know that there are people out there that are so evil that they can't respect someone's true identity. It is vile, and it is gross. And I know you are watching this. They said they wanted to leak it because I am lying, or that I don't want to tell my truth, or because they feel like I'm too scared for people to know who I truly am. I'm not scared. Today's the day. I am free. And I get to be me, finally. Please know that this doesn't change anything about me. My love for makeup has always been real. I have always been real. I have no idea how this is gonna go. I don't know if people are going to hate me. I don't know if people are going to accept me. All I know is that I haven't changed. You're seeing the same Nikkie right now as you saw a couple of years ago. Now if you look at my first video, however, that is a change — because I have grown into a self-respecting, loving woman.

CH: Nikki de Jager speaking to her 12-point-eight million subscribers, and revealing that she is transgender. The YouTube star transitioned when she was a teenager, at the same time she started uploading videos onto the platform. Ms. de Jager had never discussed it publicly, until yesterday.

[Music: Piano]

Burisma hack

Guest: Blake Darche

CH: In the midst of ongoing impeachment proceedings south of the border, it can be easy to lose track of how this all started. Which was: with U.S. President Donald Trump asking Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for information on Joe Biden and his son Hunter. Why he did it, and how he did it, and whether there was a quid pro quo — and whether any of that warranted impeachment — is, of course, up for debate. But the transcript of a July 2019 phonecall confirms that Mr. Trump did, in fact, ask. And now, an American security firm has revealed that Russian intelligence recently hacked the very same Ukrainian gas company at the centre of that ask: Burisma Holdings. Blake Darche is the Chief Strategy Officer for Area 1, the security firm that published the report. We reached him in Menlo Park, California — near San Jose.

CO: Mr. Dache, how did you determine that agents of the Russian military and intelligence hacked into the computers of Burisma Holdings?

BLAKE DARCHE: We collected various pieces of information that allowed us to correlate that an attack that occurred by the Russian GRU against Burisma Holdings through variety of telemetry that we collect as a company.

CO: GRU, can you tell us what that is, and what they were up to?

BD: Sure. The GRU is Russia's main military intelligence group. And they're responsible for collecting typically military intelligence, but also conducting information warfare operations. So the Russian GRU registered various look-alike domain names, used those fake look-alike domain names to send malicious links to email addresses associated with Burisma Holdings in order to facilitate a user to click on that link and enter their username and password. And have their credentials stolen, so they could gain access to those accounts.

CO: And this is what's known as phishing?

BD: This is what is known as phishing.

CO: And for an audience in Canada that may not know all the details, we should remind them that Donald Trump's impeachment was based on allegations that he was pressuring Ukraine to collect political dirt on the Bidens, to look into Joe Biden's son Hunter and his work with this company —Burisma Holdings. Do you think these Russian hackers were after the same thing?

BD: It remains to be seen. The Russians have been seen doing this before in the 2016 cycle. I mean, it's possible Russia thinks there's some sort of incriminating evidence. But you know, that remains to be seen. But it looks like they were trying to collect emails regarding possibly Hunter Biden. But we're uncertain at this point if that's exactly correct or not.

CO: And what about the timing of this? When was this hack taking place?

BD: So we noticed it on December 31^st. The first attack by the Russians took place in early-to-mid November. And then again, throughout December summer. So the Russians started attacking this entity and its subsidiaries right around the kickoff of the impeachment hearings.

CO: And what do you make of that?

BD: Well, I'm of the opinion you know there's no such thing as a coincidence — typically with timeframes like that. So it looks significant. But why it's significant, I'm not sure of that.

CO: And given how they've operated in the past, what might they do with any information, anything they have on Hunter Biden — if that's what they were seeking. What might they do with that now, given their past activities and patterns?

BD: Well, they could try to give it to the media in the United States. They could try to post it online directly. They could give it to WikiLeaks. They could give it to another foreign government. They could try to give it to a number of the U.S. governments — an elected official. You know, the Russian goal in this operation is likely to create chaos. That seems to be their M.O. at this point.

CO: Can you just tell us how this investigation compares with what we know about Russian hacking in 2016 against the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton's campaign chair John Podesta? How does this operation compare with that one?

BD: From a timeline perspective, it compares directly. When John Podesta clicked the first the link that granted the GRU access to his e-mail account, that's basically what we've just highlighted here. This is the very beginning of that cycle. And that's why we highlighted it to the New York Times.

CO: But then so you’ve caught it early. So it may be not to the place where they had the emails that they could dump, and have the effect that they had on the election at that time, is that right?

BD: We caught it early, but I'm just highlighting kind of from a timeline perspective kind of where we are in the attack cycle. Just having access to a single email box might be all the Russians were interested in. It’s unknown, so just a single email box might be enough for the Russians to cause quite a bit of chaos in the U.S. electoral process.

CO: And is that what they do? Is that what you think that they're aiming to do?

BD: I do. I think the Russians are interested in turning you know Democrats and Republicans against each other to cause the country to spiral into a non-functional state. And thus, Russia can rise to a greater power. And we alerted the New York Times on it because we think it's in the public interest to understand that the Russians are trying to possibly cause chaos in the 2020 election cycle.

CO: But it's not necessarily going to stop that chaos, right? I .wan, if the information is provocative.

BD: It may not stop that chaos, but it encourage certain organizations to better protect their information moving forward and try to prevent additional damage from being done.

CO: So what do you think we might see next, if anything, from this?

BD: I think that remains to be seen. It could be a kind of silent period. We could also see attacks further pivot against you know more U.S. political candidates. But we haven't seen that yet. So we don't know yet.

CO: Is it getting more sophisticated, this hacking?

BD: We haven't noticed any significant increase in GRU’s sophistication level. But you don't have to be sophisticated to be effective. And oftentimes, people confuse effectiveness with sophistication, thinking that you have to be sophisticated to be effective. When, in fact, you don't.

CO: Because what's worked in the past can work again?

BD: Correct.

CO: But do you expect to see more of this? Should we expect to see more of these kinds of reports like the one you just issued?

BD: I do. I think we will see more of this in the future, and probably not just by Russia. We'll see other countries try to begin that kind of moving down the same road.

CO: All right, cautionary tale. Mr. Darche, thank you.

BD: Thank you so much. Bye.

CH: Blake Darche's company Area 1 Security recently determined that Russian intelligence has been hacking Burisma Holdings. That's the Ukrainian oil and gas firm at the centre of Donald Trump's impeachment. We reached Mr. Darche in Menlo Park, California. For more on this story, visit our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

McSorley’s Ale House obit

CH: He was the patriarch of New York City's oldest Irish pub. And to regulars, Matty Maher was, quote, "a five foot eight spark plug" — with a belly laugh that could fill the room. Matty Maher, the owner of McSorley's Old Ale House, died on Saturday of lung cancer. He was 80 years old. McSorley's opened in the East Village of Manhatten in 1854. Mr. Maher, an Irish immigrant, took over the dive bar in 1977. The bar is known for its sawdust-covered floors and its two kinds of beer — light and dark. But McSorley's also attracted attention for its memorabilia. Like its chandelier made of wishbones. Back in 2011, Mr. Maher spoke to Carol on this program, after the New York City health department expressed concerns over that wishbone chandelier.

SOUNDCLIP

MATTY MAHER: It's about 37, 38 inches in length, and it has two lights on it — and one on each end — the old gaslights.

CO: And what's special about it?

MM: Well, there's nothing special. What became really special was the wishbones that I put up on it way, way back.

CO: Now, the wishbones. These are chicken bones?

MM: Yeah… No, well, turkey bones.

CO: Turkey bones.

MM: They started with, you see, Custer’s regiment, General Armstrong Custer, the Civil War general.

CO: Yes.

MM: They were stationed across the street from McSorley's, back civil war, we go back pre-Civil War. And they went to Gettysburg, there was like some of them not coming back and so forth. But what they used to do, they would have a turkey dinner, and they would hang bones on the wishbone. And when they come back to take them down off it, do you follow me?

CO: Uh-huh.

MM: And the odd one that was left was the ones that didn't come back. And it became a tradition. Now, none of us can verify anything because dem bones disintegrated probably 40, 50, 60 years ago. But it became a tradition. So then, it has took off in World War One, World War Two, the Vietnam War — its servicemen. We have three bones now, three new ones from the Iraq war. They haven't gathered dust yet. The whole controversy is over is that a lot of dust accumulated. And every once in a while, a bone would fall down, or you know the dust would fall down. And especially if somebody is eating underneath it, you have a problem.

CH: From our archives, that was Matty Maher speaking with Carol in April 2011. Mr. Maher, the owner of McSorley's Old Ale House died on Saturday. He was 80 years old.

[Music: Ambient]

Part three: New York librarian, charm bracelet auction

BoJo on Big Ben

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: the chimes of Big Ben]

CH: The chimes of Big Ben — which you don't hear too often these days. Not live anyway. Not since the refurbishment of the tower housing began in 2017. The chimes do still sound occasionally, on special occasions like Remembrance Sunday and New Year's Eve. And Prime Minister Boris Johnson is adamant that Big Ben's bells will bong to mark the country's departure from the European Union at the end of the month. Brexit is scheduled to take effect on January 31st. If the bells do toll, though, they will exact a pretty hefty toll on the public purse — due to the ongoing renovations. As much as 500,000 pounds, by Mr. Johnson's own admission. So he has suggested that a crowdfunding effort may be established to help fund the effort. Here he is speaking with "BBC Morning" host Dan Walker earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

BORIS JOHNSON: The bongs cost 500,000 pounds.

DAN WALKER: Yes, they’re very costly bongs.

BJ: Yeah, but we're working up a plan so that people can bung a bob for a Big Ben bong. Because there's some people who want to…

DW: [speechless]

BJ: [chuckling] I haven't quite worked it out.

DW: I love the fact you're developing policy live on telly.

BJ: Because as everybody knows, Big Ben is being renovated. You see, they seem to have taken the clapper away. So we need to restore the clapper in order to bong Big Ben on Brexit night. And that is expensive. So I think we're looking at whether people…

DW: You can fund it by via the public.

BJ: Because it seem to cost half-a-million pounds.

DW: Yes.

CH: Prime Minister Boris Johnson on "BBC Morning" earlier today.

[Music: Folk]

New York librarian

Guest: Betsy Bird

CH: This week, for its 125h anniversary, the New York Public Library unveiled its ten most checked out books of all time. They include "The Cat in the Hat" by Dr. Seuss, George Orwell's "1984", and "The Very Hungry Caterpillar", by Eric Carle. Heavy on the dystopian stuff, obviously. Anyway: six of the ten are books for young people. But one famous children's book is conspicuous by its absence: "Goodnight Moon" by Margaret Wise Brown — which is missing from the list because of just one influential New York Public Library children's librarian named Anne Caroll Moore. Betsy Bird is the former youth materials specialist at the New York Public Library. We reached her in Evanston, Illinois.

CO: Betsy, what did Anne Caroll Moore have to do with the unpopularity of “Goodnight Moon” — at least unpopularity of the New York Public Library?

BETSY BIRD: Well, she wasn't a huge fan of the style of book that Margaret Wise Brown sort of excelled in. Margaret Wise Brown was from the Bank Street College of Education. She believed very much in getting down on a child's level, and making books in that way. And so we don't know specifically what Anne Carroll Moore disliked about that book. What we do know is that it was one of the books she chose not to buy for the library system.

CO: But it was hugely popular — at least it has been over the years. So did she ever say anything about why she didn't want it at the New York Public Library?

BB: As far as I know, she never said anything specifically about why she wanted. But if you look at the kinds of books that she loved, it definitely did not fit the mold. She was a huge fan of Beatrix Potter. She liked a very classic style of children's literature. And when you look at “Goodnight Moon,” it's very glaring. You know, you've got these bright greens, and these bright reds, and these bright yellows. There's no story to it. It's very rhythmic. It's very soothing. But it's very strange. You've got a grandmother who appears and then suddenly disappears. You've got “Goodnight, Nobody” is one of the lines. It's a very peculiar little book.

CO: What kind of a librarian was she?

BB: She was the great librarian in terms of what she did for library services for kids. She was the very first person at New York Public Library to found Children's Services. She wanted to get kids into the library as much as humanly possible. And she would buy you know we had a great amounts of immigrants coming into New York at that time. She wanted to get books in their languages, so they would all find something in the library. She very much tried to reach out to all different kinds of kids and get them in her branches as much as possible. And, on the flipside of that, she wanted to decide what books were best for them.

CO: It's hard to imagine now that there was a time when that had to be done, when you had to sort of draw children in. That they didn't have a children's section, and that the children didn't have their own library cards — which is just so wonderfully common now.

BB: Oh, I know.

CO: So what was the thinking before? I mean, she obviously, Anne Caroll Moore wasn't limiting what children could read. She wanted it to be channeled into something she thought would be useful to them, right?

BB: Well, absolutely. And you know before you know she and many other librarians around the country — she was by no means the first woman to talk about children's services, but she was one of the more prominent ones. But you know before these women sort of came up with this idea of having kids in the library, you know children are filthy, they've got cold dust all over their fingertips. You know, they're not going to be nice at the books. They're loud. They're noisy. They're running all around. Who would want a child in this pristine, beautiful edifice we have created to talk about literature? So yeah, for a long time children and libraries were kept as separate as humanly possible. And it was only eventually that people were saying no, it is actually a good thing.

CO: Going back to “Goodnight Moon.” Was it just the New York Public Library that didn't carry the book, or was it go beyond that?

BB: It probably went beyond that. Remember when Anne Caroll Moore was working, she was hugely influential. So what she didn't buy, many other libraries around the country were looking at her selections, and they would buy the same things that she would buy. If she didn't buy something, they didn't buy it.

CO: But it was at that same time in that same era — this is talking about the 1940s and ‘50s — [chuckling] was it being bought at the rate that now that “Goodnight Moon” is bought and sold in this country and in yours?

BB: Oh, no, no, no, it certainly did not go out pretty much at all. It was only I believe post-World War Two. There was a magazine article that was published, and this article comes out saying hey, by the way, here are some books that you may wish to read with your kids. And one of them was “Goodnight Moon” — which was still in print. It wasn't blowing up the bank. And suddenly, it becomes this massive hit. Where before, it had never really been noticed much.

CO: At what point did it start being available at the New York Public Library?

BB: It took an inordinately long time. In part because Anne Caroll Moore retired, but then she would merrily walk down the street and attend all the meetings. [CO laughing] So her successors had her sitting there. So if they bought something she didn't particularly like, she was going to tell them in no uncertain terms. So I suspect it kept off the shelves for quite some time.

CO: But you've worked in the same library and department as her, what’s it like to be in her shoes?

BB: Oh, it very intimidating. She used to get all sorts of beautiful art from the illustrators of the day. So I've handled her art. I've read her books. I've selected for the branches — much as she selected for the branches. So, you know, I I've had a bit of her perspective over the years, yeah.

CO: She sounds like the quintessential librarian — the image of the proper librarian.

BB: That is exactly what she was, bun in the hair and all, yup.

CO: [laughing] Going sush.

BB: Going shush.

CO: [chuckling]How are things different now? How do you choose the children's books now?

BB: Well, the attitudes have changed entirely. The one thing that I'll say is the same is that Anne Caroll Moore wanted the best books for kids. And that's what librarians still want too. Librarians are ready to read through just a slew of junk. There are so many children's books coming out, and they're willing to select the ones that they think kids are going to really like. By the same token, if a kid comes in asking for something that isn't the highest quality literature in the world, but they love it, we're gonna buy it for them. So the attitude has as sort of shifted to the point where we both want to give them the best possible books. And, at the same time, we just want them reading, so we're gonna give them whatever we can to hook them. And then once they're hooked, that's when we hit him with the good stuff.

CO: [laughing] So I presume you carry “Captain Underpants”.

BB: Oh, I love “Captain Underpants”. [CO laughing] I will attest to the literary standards and quality of “Captain Underpants” any day of the week.

CO: I'm with you. Betsy, thanks so much.

BB: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

CH: Betsy Bird is a collections development manager at the Evanston Public Library. She previously worked at New York Public Library as a youth materials specialist.

[Music: Britt rock]

Calgary firefighter

CH: Bruce McAslan thought he was done fighting fires. The Calgary firefighter recently retired. Trouble is — he retired to Australia. Now, Mr. McAslan is living in the thick of the bushfires that are consuming that country. This morning, he spoke with CBC's David Gray from Bermagui in New South Wales, Australia.

SOUNDCLIP

BRUCE MCASLAN: I've never seen anything like it. And there were several days where the sun never shone a tall, it was dark as night all day long. And there was a couple of days where it was dark out. And at times during the day, I look up to the sky and the sky was blood red. It was the eeriest feeling and that the weirdest thing I've ever seen. The fire that we've been experiencing, or the fires that we've been experiencing near here, generate a storm basically and very high winds and temperatures upwards of 1,200 degrees. So trees will be uprooted or just explode. And when they explode, chunks of material are ignited and then just fly in on the wind. And they can come in from kilometres away.

DAVID GRAY: Wow! And now, you served with the county fire department for what, 22 years, I think it was?

BA: Twenty-two years, yup. Yes.

DG: Did all that training help you at all for what you're seeing now?

BA: Not really. I was doing mostly structure fires. Now, we were all trained in wildland fire, but nothing like this. And you know the the fires up in Fort Mac a couple of years ago, that would definitely be on a par with what we're experiencing here. But the fires here burn much, much hotter. The eucalyptus trees produce an oil that is extremely explosive. And the other day, a fireball that was over 50 metres wide. And then where would you ever see something like that? I've seen crowning on coniferous forests, but nothing like that. That's just unbelievable.

DG: Is it taking an emotional toll?

BA: Oh yes. [chuckling] Oh yes. People are just like when will this be over? And I think most of us that you know have seen this sort of thing before realize this could go on all summer. And all it takes is for the wind to change and we're in we're in strife again.

CH: That's Bruce McAslan, speaking with CBC Calgary's "The Eyeopener" earlier today. Mr. McAslan served with the Calgary Fire Department for 22 years. He's retired now and lives in Bermagui, Australia.

[Music: Jazz]

Mount Pearl cat

CH: The cat came back. But for one Newfoundland couple, it was not the very next day. Jack went missing more than two years ago. But Mary and David Ivey never gave up hope. Here is the couple from Kilbride, telling the story to the CBC's Anthony Germain.

SOUNDCLIP

MARY IVEY: He always sat on the patio for five minutes or so, and then we'd always go back, and he come back in the house. And that was his routine. That's all he wanted to do. Check the weather and come right back in. And, actually, I went to work. When David went back to get him, he's gone. He just literally vanished. And we don't know what happened.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: So what did you think went when you realized he disappeared?

DAVID IVEY: I just couldn't live that he's gone. I called her at work, said, Mary, I said Jack hasn't come back. And it's not like him to not come back. And maybe another ten minutes, he’d want to go out again. But he just didn't come back.

AG: Every day for two years you're waiting, and then something magical with Mount Pearl happens. so what happened.?

MI: Yes, yes, actually, he got posted on missing pets by a lady, Sharon Gardener. And I didn't respond right away because she said he was going to Mount Pearl animal shelter. So when I saw his picture there, I emailed.

AG: Mount Pearl?

MI: Yep, Mount Pearl animal shelter. And I sent a picture. And then they contacted me the next day and asked me to confirm if this was Jack? And, of course, that's what we did.

DI: You don't know how many pictures I looked at over the years [MI giggles] that she showed me, Dave, look at this one look, look at this one, look at this one.

MI: But they've never added up.

DI Every single day, there was a picture.

MI: They didn't add up.

DI: But they didn't add up. And when she saw this one…

MI: It added up.

DI: They said you hhave to come in and confirm him.

AG: Jack was an outdoor cat?

MI: Well, only in and out, in and out, yeah.

AG: A bit of a hunter.

MI: Yup.

AG: Getting older. Now that you’ve got him back.

MI: Yes.

AG: is he an indoor cat now?

MI: Oh, I don’t even think he’ll look to go back out to what he’s been out to.

DI: He’ll never go outside no more.

MI: No. [giggling]

DI: Never.

MI: We got our patio built. And so, anyway, he'll enjoy the rest of his life that way.

CH: That was Mary and David Ivey from Kilbride, Newfoundland, telling CBC's Anthony Germain about their cat, Jack, who went missing two years ago — and has just turned up safe.

[Music: Tim Burton-like orchestra]

Charm bracelet auction

Guest: Ian Byfield

CH: To the untrained eye, it would likely be viewed as a curious trinket — a charm bracelet, featuring a little bowling pin, an itsy-bitsy Eiffel tower, and a coin. But something about that coin caught Ian Byfield's eye. Mr. Byfield is an assessment specialist at Walker's Auction House in Ottawa. And — thanks to his keen eye — and the detective work that followed, the owner of that charm bracelet is now half-a-million dollars richer. We reached Ian Byfield in Ottawa.

CO: Ian, what is it about this one charm on that bracelet that caught your eye?

IAN BYFIELD: Well, this client had brought a charm bracelet in, and they're ready to sell it. And there was this one charm on there that was what appeared to possibly be a coin. And it has these dots around the edges. And it also had the Islamic writing on the backside. And so I thought that it's possible that this could have been a coin, or it could've been a pendant of some sort, or prayer, or something else. So I didn't want to tell the consignor that yes we could sell this on their behalf right away. I was wanting to give them an idea that maybe this could be something more. And so at that point, the consignor was fine with us doing a little bit more research. And one thing led to another, at that point.

CO: What did the research tell you about what that coin was?

IB: Well, from what I was told, the people that I was reaching out to were saying that if this thing is real, you would have to get it authenticated. It turned out to be a coin that was only produced for roughly one month in 1605 by Mughal emperor Akbar. It features two Hindu deities on it. And so back then, this type of a coin would have been really against their religion to produce because it has two other religious deities on the coinage. So it wasn't a good thing back then. So after Akbar passed away, a lot of these coins were destroyed. And, at this point, I believe that maybe the only reason why this coin survived was because somebody had converted into a piece of jewelry with a little bale on the top. And when I saw the coin, you could see on one side it had a lot more wear, and that side was actually the side with the two Hindu deities on it so it was my belief that maybe that was the side that was rubbing against the person's clothing. So they only were able to see the Islamic riding on the backside.

CO: So you're talking about Mohammad Akhbar. He was a Mughal emperor famous at the time for trying to create some kind of peaceful coexistence between the Islamic faith and Hinduism. So what on the coin indicates those two worlds — those two religions?

IB: Well, it has the two Hindu duties of Rama and Sita on there — which is the only time that a Islamic ruler has put deities of another religion on their coin. So that was one of the major steps forward back then for this leader to try to do.

CO: And how is the Islamic faith represented on the coin, or the Arabic?

IB Well, it has the Islamic writing on the back, as well as the ruler tried to create its own calendar for when this coin would've been dated to. After he passed away, this calendar was abolished.

CO: Right. So as far as you know, this existed just for this short period time. What previous ones of these coins that have been found. What kinds of sales have they had?

IB: Sure. Well, this would be the first time that we have been able to find this coin to have been sold at open auction — the gold version. Now, there has been a silver version that sold back in 2010 in an American auction. And that's sold for 140,000 dollars U.S.

CO: Okay. Did you tell the person who owned the bracelet that this is what they might be able to get?

IB: As soon as we found out more information on the piece that you know this might be something highly valuable, of course, we're telling the consignor right away because it's our duty to do that at that point. I didn't want to tell them too early, like right after I was told that if this is real I have to get it authenticated. It was after I got multiple sources saying that, then that's when you reach out to the consignor. Because you don’t want to get their hopes up too high right away and then you know dash it.

CO: Okay, so then what happened during the sale?

IB: The auction started up, my bidder wanted me to start the bidding at 150,000 dollars Canadian — which, at that point, I knew that we were gonna have something special on our hands that night. It was just a matter of seeing how high it could go after that.

CO: And what happened?

IB: Well, it was a fierce battle. Unfortunately, my bidder did not win. It was another telephone bidder that won. And it's sold for 420,000 dollars Canadian — plus 20 per cent buyers’ premium — which raises it up to just a little bit over half-a-million-dollars Canadian to 504,000 dollars Canadian.

CO: Good heavens! And did it does it come with the bracelet [laughing].

CO:

IB: No, no. We sold the bracelets separately later on.

CO: And how much that was that worth?

IB: It was about 8,000 dollars. That's my recollection.

CO: [gasp]So the other rest of the charm bracelet with trinkets of I guess an Eiffel Tower, a little bowling pin, and a little province of Italy image, that was 8,000 dollars, and the rest of it was 500,000 dollars?

IB: Exactly, yes. And another thing was it was previously actually appraised by somebody else, and they didn't catch this coin. So when this person brought the piece in, they weren’t really expecting anything. But then, you know through due diligence, through research, we're working for the client because we work of a commission rate like most auction houses do. So we want that client to make as much money as possible. So it's in our best interest at that point to do as much research as we can.

CO: And what do you know about who wore that bracelet, where you can see how it's been worn against clothing. Who’s bracelet was it?

IB: I'm not really certain. It was family members of the consignor’s. I think was a great grandmother maybe. But beyond that, I'm not 100 per cent certain. It was left down through inheritance through the generations. And that's kind of where it was left at. If a coin could tell a story, I'd wonder how it got onto that charm bracelet. But, unfortunately, we can't do that.

CO: And the story of whose arm it was hanging on for many years before.

IB: Exactly, it could have even been around a pendant on a necklace at one point, who knows.

CO: Do you know anything about who has purchased the coin?

IB: I do. But, unfortunately, the purchaser, he wants to stay anonymous at this point. So I can't really comment too much on that.

CO: But can you tell us is it going into a private collection?

IB: It is it going into a private collection as far as I know. Yes.

CO: All right, so we'll never see it.

IB: You possibly could. You never know.

CO: Ian, it's a great story. Thank you.

IB: You're welcome, and thank you.

CO: Bye.

CH: Ian Byfield is an assessment specialist at Walker's Auction House. We reached him in Ottawa. And you can see some photos of that coin on the As It Happens website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Folk]

Ideas promo

CH: Coming up right after As it Happens, it's Ideas. Santa J. Ono is a renowned biologist, and President of the University of British Columbia. In a time of laser-guided, career-oriented degrees and diplomas, Mr. Ono is a voice in the wilderness for the classic Liberal Arts education. He argues that the study of philosophy, history, literature — or even math and the pure sciences — is more than an education for the mind. It's an education for the heart. And that, he argues, is what the world needs most in 2020 and beyond.

SOUNDCLIP

SANTA J. ONO: If you think about the anticipation of the first note of a symphonic piece, you can hear a pin drop. Everyone is at the same place. Everybody is for that period of time together as humanity. That power — even though it's not anatomically correct to say it's in the heart — what I mean is it's in the heart as in the individual is thinking about something other than themselves. They're thinking about what's best, what's ideal, what's perfect. And so the education of the heart is that you have through your education, developed a general idea of what is right and what is ethical. And it really forms your heart and your empathy for others. But it also really is an ethical compass or a moral compass.

CH: Santa J Ono, President and Vice-Chancellor of UBC, in conversation with Nahlah Ayed, tonight on Ideas.

[Music: Indie pop]

Oscar nominated animator

CH: He's responsible for grand scales on a grand scale. Dean Deblois began drawing as a kid in Aylmer, Quebec. Not sure what the caricatures of his teacher he drew on his duotang were like, but obviously they were pretty good: when he finished school, he got a job with Disney. But that wasn't even the high point of his career. That would be when he was given the task of bringing the book "How To Train Your Dragon" to the big screen. Mr. Deblois got an Oscar nomination for the first film, another for the sequel. And this week, the final instalment of the triology was nominated for Best Animated Feature. And, as he told "Ottawa Morning" host Robin Bresnahan — it's a little bit of deja vu:

SOUNDCLIP

DEAN DEBLOIS: Now having been there for, well, for the past two installments of this trilogy, I kind of know the drill a little bit. And I also know the disappointment of losing, so it's a it's a measured excitement knowing that these next couple of weeks is a lot of fun. And for a while, we all get to be winners. And then the inevitable night comes, where [chuckle] four out of the five of us will go home empty-handed. But I take it all in stride.

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: For people who don't know your story, Dean, how did your love of animation start in the first place?

DD: I could always draw, and I was drawn to comic books. I really wanted to be a comic book illustrator. I just couldn't figure out the path from Aylmer, Quebec to working for Marvel or DC in Manhattan. When I did look around as high school as wrapping up, I found a college program that taught animation at Sheridan College in Oakville, Ontario. And I found I had an aptitude for it, and a passion for it, and in chasing it, it drew me closer to the hallowed Walt Disney Studio — and eventually DreamWorks after that.

RB: What do you remember the first things that you loved to draw?

DD: Probably comic book characters [laughing]. You know, I think I learned to draw actually from studying “Conan,” for example, because the anatomy was always so kind of ripped and right there. And I loved swords and dragons and everything else. I do remember my father was a butcher, and he would bring home these rolls of butcher paper which hung in a closet beneath the stairs. And I would just pull out sheets of it and draw all over it. And I would draw all over his lunch bags [RB giggles]. So I was encouraged from an early start by my parents.

RB: Who are you going to take is your date to the Oscar ceremony?

DD: My husband will come again, along with my mother. My mother has been to every Oscar ceremony that I've been to so far [giggling]. And it's really fun. She now lives in Eastern Passage, Nova Scotia, and all of her friends think it's a lot of fun that she gets going to the Oscars and rub shoulders with the likes of Meryl Streep and whoever it might be. So I love watching it through her eyes, and kind of experiencing it.

CH: That's Dean Deblois, speaking with CBC Ottawa's Robyn Bresnahan. Mr. Deblois is the writer, director and executive producer of "How To Train Your Dragon: The Hidden World" — which is nominated for Best Animated Feature at this year's Oscars.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

January 14, 2020 episode transcript

More Stories Like This