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The AIH Transcript for November 18, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Daemon Fairless

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Good evening. I'm Daemon Fairless. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

DF: Tonight...

CO: Big menace on campus. Protesters are trapped inside Hong Kong's Polytechnic University, surrounded by police, and a volatile situation may be set to explode.

DF: No country for bold men. Months after writing a magazine article critical of India's prime minister, author Aatish Taseer's citizenship is revoked by the Indian government.

CO: Someday their prince will come clean. But after Prince Andrew's baffling, frustrating, and frankly weird weekend interview -- our guest believes he should retire from public life.

DF: The buckle starts here. A Victoria bus driver is hoping his campaign for mandatory seat belts in school buses will click with members of the British Columbia legislature.

CO: Acquired tastes. Over the years the owners of a Vancouver gelato shop have made hundreds of unusual flavors, so many that these seasoned veterans have earned a Guinness World Record.

DF: And there's just an outside chance he's going inside. A Cincinnati restaurant owner has vowed to live in a tent on the roof of his establishment until his football team wins -- but the Bengals can't seem to stop bungling. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that knows he's watching every game in-tent-ly.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Hong Kong students pushed by police action to use 'unprecedented force,' says activist

Hong Kong Polytech University protests

Guest: Denise Ho

DF: Tonight, tensions were high inside Hong Kong's Polytechnic University as police continued to close in on protesters trapped inside the campus. The demonstrators have held the university for days, holding off police with homemade firebombs, bricks, and even bows and arrows. Dozens of people, including a police officer have been injured. It's been five months now since the protests began. And over the past few days, the situation has deteriorated rapidly. Denise Ho is a pro-democracy activist and singer. We reached her near the university earlier today.

CO: Denise, can you describe the scene around the Polytechnic University right now?

DENISE HO: Basically, the Polytechnic University has been under siege since yesterday morning -- which is almost 36 hours. And it started off as a blockage from the students and the campus and then clashes with the police. And today there has been a huge protest outside the campus with people coming in support and trying to save the students. So basically, the students are still stuck in the campus and we are quite worried and very frustrated really.

CO: How many protesters do you believe are still inside?

DH: So it started off maybe around 1000 who were very very afraid. Actually I was in contact with some of the kids inside and they tried a few times to leave the sites, but then they were met with dozens of rounds of tear gas and then a lot of them were hurt. Just very recently, I think there were these principals of different universities and secondary schools who went inside and tried to convince the students to give themselves in. And so right now, at this moment, there are about 500 students inside.

CO: But police had set a deadline last night, Sunday, for people to leave the campus -- saying anyone who stays could be arrested and charged with rioting. So what position are those students in? If they want to leave, can they leave? If they stay, will they be charged as it's sort of a rock and a hard place at this point?

DH: Well, you know, what happened yesterday was very infuriating because we had these 12 legislators who tried to go and negotiate with the police and then they refused to negotiate. And basically they just would not listen to anybody. And they even threatened the students with maybe firing live rounds if the situation worsens. And so for some context, this whole protest really started last week with this clamp down at the Chinese University of Hong Kong just the last week where there were almost 2000 rounds of tear gas fired at the university campus. And so that was the reason why the other university campuses were occupied. And so we can see with these few incidents very recently how the Hong Kong police are totally out of control and they will not listen to anyone else but their commanders.

CO: But at the same time, what has been reported is that there have been homemade petrol bombs, bows and arrows are being used. A police officer was injured with an arrow. And so the talk of escalating this or even using live rounds, did that not come when the police said that the students themselves were using what could be or could become lethal force?

DH: Well, for sure. You know we do not condone any sort of violence from any side. But then I do want to remind everyone that, you know, the young people they have been pushed to use these very unprecedented levels of force.

CO: Do you support them?

DH: Yes, I support -- of course I support the young people.

CO: I mean the levels of violence. Do you think that that is justified?

DH: I feel for them. And at some moments when you see all these situations where there have been pro-Beijing supporters using knives and then just attacking people on the streets and then they are being escorted by the police to leave the grounds without any charges on them. So, of course, I understand why the young people, they feel the need to defend themselves and instead of, you know, still urging on the peaceful protests, sitting down, and then having their hands up even when people are coming to beat them up. I just don't think that is reasonable -- for us -- demand of them. I hope that we can find a better balance. But then I can understand why they have been pushed to this point.

CO: Just one other incident that I want to ask you about. There was recently video footage of someone opposing the protests who was set on fire. So is that an example of when you think things cross the line?

DH: Well for sure. You know that was the moment that nobody wanted to see. And fortunately, the person -- I'm not quite sure of his situation right now, but at least...

CO: He's in critical condition after he was set on fire.

DH: It's the first few days -- we haven't heard updates. But anyways, I do think that was one of the situations where we see some of the emotions of the protesters may be clouding some of their judgments. So I do agree that we have to strike a better balance to somehow take control of the emotions. But we do see discussions going on. So hopefully we will not see similar scenes in the future.

CO: Just finally I want ask you -- among the people who are there at the university, I understand there are a group of parents. Mothers have congregated by the police cordon. Their kids are inside. That's the understanding. What are they hoping for -- those parents?

DH: Well, the parents -- they came this afternoon and then they were quite mistreated by the police who scolded them. And then they refused to let them go into the campus, which was the original request that they could go inside and see their kids. Which shows how unsympathetic the police are. And we just do not understand why the Hong Kong government, they have not said one word about the situation.

CO: Denise we will leave it there. I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you.

DH: Thank you so much Carol.

DF: Denise Ho is a pro-democracy demonstrator and singer. We reached her near Hong Kong Polytechnic University earlier today. This morning in London, China's Ambassador to the UK gave no sign Beijing would back down. Liu Xiaoming addressed both the protesters and what he called their international backers. Here's some of what Ambassador Liu had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

LIU XIAOMING: The current situation in Hong Kong has nothing to do with the so-called democracy of freedom. The nature of the issue is extreme violent offenders have disrupted law and order in Hong Kong, attempted to destabilize Hong Kong, and undermine one country-two systems. If this situation became uncontrollable, the central government certainly would not sit on our hands and watch. We have enough resolution and power to end the unrest.

DF: That was China's Ambassador to the UK, Liu Xiamong, speaking this morning in London. And we've got more on the story, including photos from the protests on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih

[Music]

Prince Andrew interview

Guest: Peter Hunt

DF: The interview was nearly an hour long. But Prince Andrew still has much, much more explaining to do. On Saturday night the "BBC Newsnight" program aired an extraordinary, no-holds-barred interview with Queen Elizabeth's third child. The Prince is facing serious questions over his friendship with American sex offender Jeffrey Epstein -- and allegations that he had sex with one of Mr. Epstein's underage victims. Here's a clip from Saturday's interview with interviewer Emily Maitlis. She was asking him about a nightclub incident with a 17-year-old girl.

SOUNDCLIP

EMILY MAITLIS: Do you remember dancing at Tramp?

PRINCE ANDREW: No. That couldn't have happened because the date that is being suggested, I was at home with the children.

EMILY MAITLIS: You know that you were at home with the children. Was it a memorable night?

PRINCE ANDREW: On that particular day -- I was with the children. I'd taken Beatrice to a Pizza Express in Woking for a party at -- I suppose -- sort of 4 or 5 in the afternoon.

EMILY MAITLIS: Why would you remember that so specifically? Why would you remember a Pizza Express birthday and being at home?

PRINCE ANDREW: Because going to Pizza Express in Woking is an unusual thing for me to do. And I remember it weirdly, distinctly. But as soon as somebody reminded me of it, I went, "Oh yes, I remember that."

EMILY MAITLIS: She was very specific about that night. She described dancing with you, and you profusely sweating, and that she went on to have (a) bath possibly.

PRINCE ANDREW: There's a slight problem with the sweating because I have a peculiar medical condition which is that I don't sweat or I didn't sweat at the time. And that was...yes. I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falkland's War when I was shot at.

EMILY MAITLIS: Is it possible that you met Virginia Roberts, dined with her, danced with her in Tramp, had sex with her on another date?

PRINCE ANDREW: No.

DF: Prince Andrew speaking to "BBC Newsnight" this weekend. Peter Hunt watched that interview. He is the former royal correspondent for the BBC. We reached him in London.

CO: Peter, in your years covering the royal family, have you ever witnessed an interview like the one that aired on Saturday night with Prince Andrew?

PETER HUNT: I mean, no. The short answer is most definitely not. It was a most extraordinary experience. I had predicted in advance that it would not serve him well. And I was proved right, as were many other commentators, once it had been broadcast. There are so many inconsistencies. There were so many odd things like that one we just heard talking about the pizza, talking about him not sweating. And I think it's about his judgment. The fundamental thing, the issue, of whether or not he did have sex with this woman comes down to her allegation and his denial. But his judgment will have been found wanting, I think, by many people. And the really peculiar use he used this word when talking about Epstein, who was a paedophile, and using the word "unbecoming" -- I mean, that really will have troubled many many people, not least sex abuse victims.

CO: And the interviewer, BBC interviewer Emily Maitlis, caught him up on that like he is a sex offender, how do you call him that? But others have described it as -- one correspondent said it wasn't just a train wreck, it was a plane crashing into an oil tanker, causing a tsunami, triggering a nuclear explosion. Was it that bad?

PH: Yes. I mean because it did not achieve what he wanted. What he wanted was for people like you and I and your listeners to think, 'okay he didn't have sex with this woman. And obviously we can't prove or disprove that. We just have his very clear denial of it.' But he also wanted us to accept that he was being honorable. That was another odd word he used. "Honorable" was the word he used to explain and justify going in person to see Epstein. Andrew sort of broke up that friendship with him -- why took him four days? And he had to do it in person in New York. I mean royals drop friends like nobody's business and they don't do it themselves, they have people do it for them. So it's very peculiar that he went there. And then in terms of -- that quote you're using about that it was a train crash and all those other examples, I mean we have now, as I am speaking to you, examples of where people are moving away from Prince Andrew because of that interview or in part because of that interview. Just now, it's been announced that a big accountancy firm in the UK -- KPMG -- have not renewed their sponsorship of one of his big projects. There's a university in the UK where the students are lobbying for him to resign as chancellor. There's a charity he's linked with where they are having a board meeting to discuss this. So these are all actions that are flowing out of his ill-fated friendship with Epstein.

CO: The clip we played dealt with this -- then -- 17-year-old Virginia Roberts. But most of the interview was to question him about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein -- a convicted sex offender who died of suicide in his own jail cell. Several rounds of this that were just striking. The interviewer, Emily, asks: In 2006 in May, there was an arrest warrant for Epstein for sexual assault of a minor -- and then in July, you invited him to Windsor Castle for your daughter, Princess Beatrice's, birthday. Why would you do that? Another one's about why did you go and stay at his house, as you just mentioned. Why, once you knew he was being investigated or was convicted, why did you spend time with him? Did you find any answer to be satisfying?

PH: Well, they were -- I think many people will have found them not to be satisfying. And many people will have been troubled by that very example you gave that Epstein was invited, I think Andrew said as a plus one to Princess Beatrice 18th (birthday) even though he was the subject of an arrest warrant for sexual assault of a minor. And Andrew's explanation of that was, well I wasn't following the full details of what was going on in the United States. His problem is that about five minutes earlier in the interview, he talked about the attraction to him of Epstein was that it opened up a window for him into American culture and American business and what was going on in America. So he would have thought if he was opened up to what was going on, that he might have done that. He could have done a Google search, he could have looked on the Internet. And indeed, you know, he was working for the British government, one would think the foreign office might have told him about what was happening with Epstein. I mean, the other challenge for him is that he acknowledged in the interview that he went four times to Epstein's Florida home. And all the evidence about the Florida home is that it was really clear that there were photos of underage girls out in the open in that home. And I remember when I worked for the BBC, talking to a police officer there who said you know anyone who was in the house could hardly have missed them.

CO: In some parts of the interview, it seems as though he's had some coaching. Do you think that he did get help with this interview? How did it happen?

PH: Well, I think there's no way that he wasn't coached. I mean, no one would go into an interview like that you would have thought without doing some sort of coaching. And one has to assume he was coached because he referred to his team, he referred to his lawyers. So one would have assumed that they must have game played what it was that they wanted to put across. And clearly what they wanted to put across was: 'No he did not have sex with this woman on the three occasions that he alleges. Yes, he made a mistake going to stay with him for four days when he was going to tell Epstein that he was breaking up with him not being his friend.' I mean I think he and his private secretary were very strongly driven by a desire of just complete irritation that these allegations were there and wanting the public to believe him. But also, I think, trying to get on the front foot, because we don't know what state the FBI investigation is at. I mean, one has to assume that they have been in contact with him. Does he know something that we don't yet know and so he wants to get out there before that? Epstein kept diaries. Is there a risk of any of those getting into the public domain? And I also think he has a concern about his position in the royal family and a concern that steps might be taken to sort of tap him on the shoulder and encourage him to step down. I mean the Queen, his mother, would never do that. But it's not impossible that Prince Charles -- the sort of shadow king, the king in waiting -- might be minded to at some stage.

CO: It does appear that there were those who tried to stop this train wreck and that he had advice from people on his team not to do it. And I guess it was a resignation involved with that. What do you know about that?

PH: Yeah. I mean he had the communication secretary -- probably had the title of the shortest communication secretary -- because they clearly disagreed. And the advice of this individual was that this interview would be a bad idea, as I would have thought most communication advisers would give that advice. But Prince Andrew, I mean we have to assume that his private secretary because otherwise she simply would...her position would be untenable -- but the two of them were committed to doing it. And then, as I suggest, they got the endorsement of the Queen for it to go ahead, as it did. And you know the crucial thing is not only did it go ahead, but it was filmed within Buckingham Palace. It had the sort of fall, you know, the grandeur of the palace behind that interview -- that was setting and the stage for his interview.

CO: All right, Peter, we will leave it there. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

PH: My pleasure. Thank you.

DF: Peter Hunt is the BBC's former royal correspondent. We reached him in London, England.

[Music]

Cincinnati Bengals fan roof sit

Guest: Jeff & Chrissy Lanham

DF: The Cincinnati Bengals aren't having a good year. The NFL team hasn't won a regular season game yet. That's bad news for all Bengals fans. But it's especially bad news for Jeff Lanham because it means he can't go home. Mr. Lanham made a vow that he would live on the roof of his restaurant until the Bengals won. We reached Mr. Lanham and his wife Chrissy Lanham in Milan, Indiana.

CO: Jeff, I want to start the interview with you. How long have you been living on the roof of your bar?

JEFF LANHAM: Tonight will make the 44th night.

CO: And how's that going for you?

JL: Boring. Very boring.

CO: [Laughs] Well, I mean do you have anyone else to blame but yourself?

JL: No, I don't want to blame anybody. But my wife played a little part of it. [Laughs]

CO: Well, just before we ask your wife about the part she played -- tell people why you're up on the roof?

JL: I just made a comment one night in the bar of our restaurant. You know, we were watching a football game and my wife got the idea to Facebook message a couple of our friends and tell them what I said. And then she got the other idea to tell Channel 12 News live at the tailgate what I said. And here I am.

CO: Chrissy, what did you tell the news?

CHRISSY LANHAM: So we ended up losing that night. So the following Sunday, when we went down to the game against the Cardinals, they come to our tailgate spot a lot and interview us. And I basically just told them that Jeff had made this pledge that if we lost that day, he was going to stay on the roof of our restaurant until we won a game.

CO: Did you think he was actually going to do it Chrissy?

CL: I mean, I thought he would do it. But I think both of us thought we were going to win the game that day because that was one of the teams that we were favored to win against. So when we lost, it was kind of a shock. And then, of course, we didn't think that, since then, that we would not win a game this whole entire time either.

CO: So, Jeff what are you doing up there? Are you pondering the meaning of life?

JL: No -- I just hang out, watch Netflix, watch sports all day -- if there's any game on. And basically nothing really. Just watching TV and hanging out -- waiting for the next Sunday so we get a chance to win.

CO: But you're out doors, right? The roof is not covered. You're exposed to the elements, are you not?

JL: I'm in a tent. But I don't like the wind. It gets cold in here. I mean just picture living in a 10x12 tent out in the middle of the open weather.

CO: You're in the tent -- just described what you got there in the tent with you.

JL: I have two heaters. I have like a camp organizer -- Timber Ridge outdoor. Timber Ridge is a company that builds outdoor equipment, makes outdoor equipment. So they give me like a camp organizer, which would be like a pantry for a house. I took some milk crates from our restaurant and made an entertainment stand out of it. That's where I have like the picture of my wife and I, and like a Bengals helmet, and some decorations in there. I have a flat screen TV. I started with a little one because I didn't think I was going to be here for all these weeks. And now I have a big one. Two coolers -- one cooler that I keep my food in, like lunch meat, and salsa. And then I have another cooler that has like my drinks and water -- you know soft drinks and beer. And I have a cot and a recliner, you know. And that is about it.

CO: Chrissy what has it been like having your husband live on the roof for all these weeks?

CL: It gets kind of lonely at home. Luckily, we have a dog. We have a golden doodle named Cash. And he stays here with me at home and keeps me company. But I mean I go and visit him. But then, of course I come home at night. I don't sleep up there. So kind of different. Unfortunately, I'm starting to get used to it.

CO: But Jeff, you're up there -- you're watching TV, you're watching the games, I guess. Does anyone join you? Do you have anybody to have a Sunday afternoon football with?

JL: Oh yeah. I mean, all day long when the Bengals are playing there's different friends stopping in and out. I have usually "Wildman Walker" -- he'll come up and hang out with me. He's one of the guys that did this back in 1991 that made me say that comment. But Ickey Woods -- a former player from the Cincinnati Bengals when they went to the Super Bowl -- he came up here one time and watched the game with me. And there's a couple staff man from B-105 radio station. And the rest is just like friends and just people that come here to see if it's true.

CO: What did "Wildman Walker" do?

JL: "Wildman Walker" in 1991 -- he worked for a radio station, WEBN, and the producer from WEBN and another producer from a sister channel, I think, they had a bet between themselves at the beginning of the season and whichever team -- it was Denver and Cincinnati -- whichever team lost, one of their radio guys from either station had to go and stay on a billboard until their team won the next game. Well, Cincinnati ended up going 0 and 8 that year. And he was up there for 61 days.

CO: Oh dear. Wow! We can't top that. But there is a Canadian football fan, Chris Matthews, who has not worn pants in 18 years. He's been wearing shorts and he will wear them until his team, the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, win the Grey Cup. And we have a bit of that. I want to play you what his wife has to say about that.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: There are places we can't go to -- like a nice restaurant. We have been walking down the street when it's been very cold and I have a fur coat and he's in shorts and people stare and I just deter them, "Yes, he's an idiot."

CO: [Laughs] And you should know Winnipeg is one of the coldest capitals in Canada. So there you go. [Laughter] I mean it could be worse Chrissy. 18 years!

CL: That's pretty bad.

CO: What do you think of that Jeff?

JL: He definitely has everybody beat I would say.

CO: Well, but now, is it possible though that the Bengals won't win at all? I mean, I hate to raise that as an issue, but I mean that's a possibility, right?

JL: Yeah, I mean it's definitely possible. I hope it doesn't happen.

CO: And Chrissy what are you planning for when Jeff finally comes down off the roof?

CL: So we were hoping it was going to happen yesterday because we originally had plans to go to Vegas this week. I don't know. We'll probably take a little trip somewhere just to celebrate.

CO: If you can.

CL: If we can.

JL: If we can. [Laughs]

CO: Good luck to you. Good luck to the Bengals. It sounds like you guys need it.

CL: We definitely need it. [Laughter]

CO: All right Jeff and Chrissy talk to you soon. Bye.

BOTH: Thank you. Bye bye.

DF: Jeff and Chrissy Lanham were in Milan, Indiana. To see pictures of his rooftop setup on the restaurant visit our website: cbc.ca/aih. And you can find CBC's interview with the pant-less Bombers fan and his wife there too.

[Music]

Part 2: Writer stripped of Indian citizenship says PM trying to 'make an example' of him

Author Aatish Taseer citizenship revoked

Guest: Aatish Taseer

CO: Aatish Taseer has long called India home. But as of now, he may never be able to go back. Earlier this month, Mr. Taseer who was born in the UK but raised in India, had his citizenship revoked. The government has justified the move by accusing the author of concealing his father's Pakistani heritage. But Mr. Taseer says he's never hidden that fact. He believes the decision was really motivated by an article he wrote earlier this year criticizing India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi. More than 250 authors, including Margaret Atwood and Salman Rushdie, have called on Mr. Modi to restore Mr. Taseer's citizenship. But those calls may be too late. Today, Mr. Taseer surrendered his overseas citizenship to the consulate general of India. We reached Aatish Taseer in New York.

CO: Aatish what was it like when you handed over your citizenship, saying goodbye to the country you call home?

AATISH TASEER: Well, that said, it was more painful. I'd been preparing for it for a few months, but I hadn't expected actually to feel so bad because, you know, this is the country where I've lived the great part of my life. My work has been steeped there. My mother lives there. My grandmother lives there. So it's really been home in every way.

CO: The claim -- the reason -- why they say that you have had your citizenship taken away, India's home ministry says that you concealed the fact that your father was of Pakistani origin. Is that true?

AT: Well, it seems a little bit absurd because if I was trying to conceal the fact that my father was Pakistani, I wouldn't be writing books and articles for over a decade. It's almost been the kind of major theme of my body of work. And everyone has known this fact, including the senior leadership of the BJP. And it's never mattered until now. But three or four months ago, I wrote this cover story about Prime Minister Modi in Time magazine -- and BJP's followers they weren't completely kind of bananas over this. And since then, there's been a concerted attack against me and they sort of labeling me as a Pakistani. And I think we're really seeing the consequences of that rather than any sort of concealment.

CO: And you're referring to the party of the Prime Minister Narendra Modi. And you wrote this article for Time. I want to get to that in a moment. But as you point out, your first book "Stranger to History" was about your father and your estrangement from him. He was assassinated in 2011 in Pakistan. He was an outspoken critic of Pakistan's blasphemy laws.

AT: Exactly. My father and I were estranged from most of my life. My mother brought me up as a single woman in India. But I made a journey when I was about 21 or 22 to sort of discover who he was. And we had a brief relationship for some time. But, yes, he took this very brave stance against blasphemy and paid the price for it because Pakistan was changing in very frightening ways. And he kind of became a casualty of that change in Pakistan.

CO: We actually -- after he was assassinated -- we spoke with two of his children that are half brother and sister of yours. And they spoke about his tremendous courage to stand up to these laws. What do you make of the fact that the government is angry that you are pointing out that there are similar restrictions of people in India?

AT: Well India was always -- especially being of mixed background I was always in a position to see Pakistan as a very sort of worrying example of what could happen when religion and politics took hold in a sort of toxic way. And India had always stood out to me as a place of freedom, of a robust democracy, a progressive-liberal society, and a society that had always embraced diversity. And so to see India start to turn in similar ways is very very upsetting for me. And there are striking similarities.

CO: Can you just tell us about the article you wrote for Time? Why was it so controversial?

AT: Well, you know, to tell you the truth, I'm not even sure if it was the text of the article. Time Magazine decided to run it on the cover. They ran it with a provocative headline which said "India's Divider-in-Chief." And I think it was the combination of the image and the headline and this sort of magazine that people in India normally associate with prestige. And it was the time of the election, the general election, and it had just this absolutely kind of nuclear effect. And Modi's supporters were trolling me heavily. They were vandalizing my Wikipedia. Doing all sorts of stuff on social media. There were threats. A number of things. And I remember being called on TV in India at the time -- and I said, listen, this is an occupational hazard. You have to have a stake high. You have to be able to deal with this. I said, then what I really don't like, though, is that both the BJP spokesmen as well as the prime minister is advancing this lie that I'm Pakistani. Which in a year would have been such terrible hostilities between these two countries, I could face consequences. And I believe what we're seeing now is a direct result of what the prime minister said at the time.

CO: The government is insisting that you've lost your citizenship because of your Pakistani father. And a government spokesman said that you were given an opportunity to submit your reply objections, but that you, quote, "failed to dispute the notice." Is that true?

AT: Well, that second part is such an out-and-out lie because they said that on Twitter. And within moments I had put a photograph of the consulate general's acknowledgment of my right to reply. And not only was I not given the proper time to reply -- I was meant to have 21 days, I in fact had 24 hours. So that part was proven immediately to be wrong. And the second thing is that I was raised by a single mother in India. She was my sole guardian. And none of this had mattered till this moment. And to give you a sense of the malice with which the government was operating, they canceled my document on Twitter. So this was really -- they were really trying to make an example of me. And in some ways they have.

CO: Your mother and your grandmother are still there. Is it going to be difficult for you to see them?

AT: Carol it will absolutely be difficult because they haven't simply taken away the overseas citizenship. They've said very clearly -- the consulate general indicated and it's written on the Home Ministry's website that if it's taken away on these grounds, that person will be blacklisted and prevented from even having an ordinary visa. So with my mother turning 70 next year and my grandmother 90, I'm suddenly cut off from the only family I've ever had.

CO: You have tremendous support. 250 authors and counting are petitioning this, including Margaret Atwood and Salman Rushdie and Gloria Steinem and so many others. Can that help you? Is there any possibility that this can be reversed?

AT: I don't think so. You know, I would like to believe that was the case, but this government is really on the path of illiberal democracy. And the more people from this sort of international community or from liberal quarters try to speak out, the more the government's resolve seems to kind of harden.

CO: Aatish we'll be following this story. I appreciate speaking with you tonight.

AT: Thank you so much Carol.

DF: Aatish Taseer is a journalist and author. We reached him in New York.

[Music]

Christine Blasey Ford

DF: They rose to applaud as Christine Blasey Ford took the stage on Sunday. Ms. Blasey Ford is the California professor who appeared before the U.S. Senate in 2018 to accuse Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault -- which didn't prevent Justice Kavanaugh from being confirmed as a United States Supreme Court Justice. Yesterday, the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California announced that it was honoring Professor Ford with its highest award for courage. Here's some of her acceptance speech.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD: When I came forward last September, I did not feel courageous. I was simply doing my duty as a citizen. I thought anyone in my position, of course, would do the same thing. I had a responsibility to my country, to my fellow citizens, to my students, to my children to live the values that I try to teach them. I understood that not everyone would welcome my information. And I was prepared for a variety of outcomes, including being dismissed. I was not prepared for the venom, the persistent attacks, the vilification, the loss of personal privacy, and the collateral damage to my friends and my family. I was not prepared to be physically threatened or to be forced out of our home for over three months. I have learned a lot over the past year. I have learned that there is a well-financed attack machine out there ready to flood the Internet and the media anytime I raise my head. And I know it's not going to go away. I've also continued to learn that the ethical promise to sexual assault survivors, to do no further harm, is easily ignored by journalists who selectively abstract meaningless details that are twisted and weaponized against me. And although I underestimated the pain, I also underestimated the love and the support that I have received. The loyalty of individuals who are willing and ready to stand up to the intense public scrutiny on my behalf -- I am thankful that sharing my experience prompted over 200,000 people to send messages of support, many handwritten, sharing their own stories of assault and abuse. That's why it means so much to me -- not just to be recognized by you tonight, but because I know that you will continue the work of protecting sexual assault survivors and preventing sexual assault. And it's not just survivors that we have to stand up for. It's all of those who come forward to support our country: Ambassador Yovanovitch, all of them men and women who bravely come forward. [Crowd applauds] They come forward to tell the truth and to help our country. They might also be vilified. And they need to hear our voices of support also.

DF: That was Christine Blasey Ford speaking last night in Beverly Hills. She was accepting the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California's Roger Baldwin Courage Award.

[Music]

School bus seatbelts

Guest: Gary Lillico

DF: A year ago, he was just a B.C. school bus driver who was worried about the safety of the kids who sat behind him. Then Gary Lillico started an online petition calling on the federal government to make seatbelts mandatory in all school buses. Safety studies in previous crashes, he says, are clear evidence that kids should be belted in. Now, after that petition got more than 120,000 signatures, Mr. Lillico's quest is one step closer to reality. Today, a private member's bill was introduced in B.C.'s legislature to make school bus seatbelts mandatory. And Mr. Lillico was there to watch. We reached Gary Lillico at home just before he left for the legislature in Victoria.

CO: Gary, I know you're just getting ready to head over to B.C.'s legislature. What's it going to be like for you to see this bill introduced?

GARY LILLICO: Well, it's exciting because it's just another step towards what the ultimate goal is of getting the seatbelts on the buses for the kids. So I'm excited to go over and see that presented as a private member's bill and go from there.

CO: It's not often that people are successful like this in getting legislation introduced into government. How difficult was it for you to accomplish that?

GL: Well, I've been working on it for just over a year. I started the petition last fall in October. Yeah, it's been a long haul. You know, you have to be persistent and and I am.

CO: And now it started because you saw a documentary on the Fifth Estate on CBC that questioned this long standing idea that seatbelts in school buses don't do anything to improve safety. They had some evidence that called that into question. What did you see in that report?

GL: Well, I saw exactly what you did. And I also saw them talk to the head tester of Transport Canada who did the 2010 study. And at the end of talking with her, she admitted that, on TV, that seat belts would be a good first step because part of her conclusions were the high back seats, which are called compartmentalization, fail protect the kids in a side impact or rollover accident. We've had at least three or four rollover accidents in the last year in Canada. And those have resulted in broken bones and concussions and cuts and bruises and some emotional trauma. And that's because there aren't seat belts. It's a common-sense thing. And you know all the other detractors -- there really isn't an argument anymore other than costs. And it has always been about cost. And that's why we're still trying to get it done.

CO: What was the study? You referred to this Transport Canada study in 2010.

GL: They did a study so that was the result of a teenage girl's death in 2008, in Rimbey, Alberta. Her name was Jennifer Noble. Her mother, a first responder, actually attended the scene on duty to her own daughter's death. That was my kicker to get me going. That 2010 study was a result of that 2008 accident. They did bus crashes, they did mock rollovers, all kinds of things. And of course, when a bus rolls over, if the kids aren't belted in then they go flying and they either hit the ceiling, the wall, or out the window. So that's what came up in their study. And they did quite a thorough study.

CO: If it is such a no-brainer, why is it taking so long to act on it?

GL: Simple, it's cost. Money. The government doesn't want to be the guys responsible for making it happen because they should be footing some of the bill to get it done initially. And you know, I mean if you have a contractor that has 50 buses and he has to retrofit them -- 15,000 a pop, and it's 50 buses, that's a lot of money. So it's easier to lobby the other way. A new bus is about 5000 -- so really, it's just like adding one more feature.

CO: So Transport Canada has maintain the seat belts don't improve safety because they don't want to pay for them.

GL: You know, that standard pat line of theirs is so old and so obsolete now, even based on their own study in 2010 it shows differently. So they need to get their horse in gear.

CO: All right. So you got your horse in gear. You got this petition going -- 120,000 signatures on it. Now, there is going to be a private member's bill introduced. For yourself as a school bus driver, what's it like to have your kids on the school bus and they're not buckled up? How do you feel about that?

GL: Well, I've only been doing it two years. And I was retired and I just took it as sort of a part-time thing locally in the community. And I got on and I thought, you know, I'll throw my seat belt on and there's none for the kids. And you know I was in shock. And then I saw a documentary on it. And then that was the light bulb. And then, you know, finding out about the death of a schoolgirl. There's been more. There's ones that are farther down the road. I mean, a couple months ago, there was one down on the States. Eight states have seat belts and the rest don't. And there was one just recently where a little boy, 5-year-old, was killed, and it was a head on. But he wasn't in his seat properly and he died. The technology is there, the seat belt companies are designing them for school buses. All the technologies -- they even have a seat belt monitoring system for the driver that monitors whether it's clipped or not. So there really is no excuse.

CO: When you're on the bus and these kids -- I understand -- they get up to go and talk to you, right? They're standing up. And you're out on the highway going hundred clicks. What do you say to them? How do you deal with that?

GL: Well, you know, when it is kindergarten -- it's pretty hard to reason with them while you're barreling down the highway. And, you know, you tell them that you have got sit down and you got to sit down. You know you are checking over your shoulder and it's distracting for the driver. And all the drivers would tell you that. And really unsafe. You know, if the bus went off the road, they all go flying, except the driver because he's got a seat belt.

CO: I understand you've got grandkids...

GL: I have three grandsons.

CO: And they're not strapped on.

GL: No -- they're not riding the bus yet. But one of them has the potential to go on field trips and such and they usually use a school bus. So, you know, somewhere during the course of a child's life, he's probably going to be on a school bus, if not daily, but somewhere along the line. And you know in my opinion, it's the most precious cargo that Canada transports with the least amount of protection.

CO: Well, Gary, I think a lot of parents listening to you -- and grandparents -- are thinking, thank goodness someone's doing this. And we will follow what happens and get back to you. Thanks so much.

GL: Oh, thanks for having me. It was my pleasure.

DF: We reached Gary Lillico earlier today in Victoria, B.C..

[Music]

The Drinker

DF: In 2004, the mysterious artist named "Banksy" installed a statue without permission in Shaftesbury Square in London. It was a visual play on Rodin's "The Thinker" -- only instead of a nude man in deep thought, he was a nude man with a traffic cone on his head. And it was called "The Drinker." Get it? Because the guy's drunk. And what "The Drinker" lacks in humor, it also lacks in beauty. Banksy's former art dealer describes it as a monstrosity. Nevertheless, a couple of years later, another artist named Andy Link had an idea that was about as funny as the statue itself. He stole it. He stuck it in his backyard and he issued a ransom note to Banksy. The hilarious prank had no effect. And Banksy's monstrosities stayed and Andy Link's yard, being ugly, until one day it was gone. Someone had taken it. There is no accounting for taste. And even though Mr. Link reported it to the police, there's no accounting for the statue. Until, lo and behold, there it is. It's up for auction at Sotheby's tomorrow, where the estimated sale price is 1.7-million dollars Canadian. Which is news to Andy Link. He insists he's still the rightful owner of "The Drinker" which was stolen from him. Whereas Sotheby's insists it was, quote, "retrieved" from Mr. Link's property and its sale is perfectly legal. In the end, someone's going to pay a lot for that hideous, unfunny artwork, which is actually the only funny part because, while it's a statue of a full body, it's also a total bust.

[Music]

Part 3: Stents/surgery study

Stents/surgery study

Guest: Jeffrey Berger

DF: When it comes to helping patients with blocked coronary arteries, doctors usually have two basic options. First: do surgery, either a bypass operation or a procedure to insert a stent into the heart artery. Or second: treat the artery with medication and ask the patient to adopt better health habits. There's been a heated debate over the years about which one cardiologist should choose. Now, a major new study has found that the first option is really no more effective than the second in preventing heart attacks and death. Dr. Jeffrey Berger is co-investigator on the study and the director of the Center for Prevention of Cardiac Disease in New York University's Langone Health Center. We reached him today in Philadelphia.

CO: Dr. Berger, first of all, what kinds of patients are we talking about? How serious are their heart problems?

JEFFREY BERGER: So we evaluate the patients that have a moderate or severe abnormality on a cardiac stress test. So these are patients that are symptomatic who have a lot of ischemia.

CO: Are these people who have had heart attacks?

JB: Approximately 20 percent of the patients that were included in the trial have had a heart attack in the past. Although you did not need to have a heart attack to be enrolled.

CO: So tell us what were you comparing? Describe the two ways you wanted to look at of treating people with these conditions.

JB: Sure. So when someone has an abnormal stress test, I think there are two potential strategies. One strategy is to do an invasive procedure called a heart catheterization. And then if there is a blockage in their artery, open that artery up with either a stent or bypass surgery. And the other strategy would be to use a conservative approach, which means very aggressive medicine to lower their risk factors, medicines to help with any potential chest discomfort, but to really push off any invasive procedure until either their symptoms become very aggressive or they have a cardiovascular event such as a heart attack.

CO: What you were able to discover was that this intervention of stents, bypass surgery we're no better than medication and lifestyle changes for dealing with these kinds of coronary artery diseases. Is that right?

JB: Yes. So what we found is that an invasive strategy with either a stent or bypass surgery was not better at lowering a cardiovascular event, meaning a future heart attack, death, heart failure, etc. But I would like to point out that in those patients that had significant symptoms, which means they had significant chest pain, that was not getting better with medicine, the intervention did sort of help prevent or improve their chest discomfort.

CO: But did not prolong life -- for both the outcomes were the same as far as having a heart attack.

JB: Sure. So very importantly, it did not lower the risk of a future heart attack or death.

CO: How surprised were you by these results?

JB: So I think there are a lot of people who have very sort of convicted ideas as to what they think would have been the answer. So there are some people who really believe when you open up an artery that prevents future problems like a heart attack. Or that other people really believe that medicines are great. So I believe there was something called equipoise when we performed the study which was we really were not sure which would be better. I think overall these are really important findings because I think we really convincingly showed that opening up the arteries with either a stent or a bypass surgery in people with an abnormal stress test does not improve hard end points in the long term.

CO: And for people who do get surgery, though, what are the risks?

JB: Whenever you do a procedure, there are risks upfront. In fact, there's a little bit of a higher risk having a heart attack very soon after the procedure -- it is called a periprocedural myocardial infarction. And we did show a slight increase in the invasive strategy arm. But I think over all, over the long term, there was probably a little bit fewer heart attacks. So I think they actually counterbalance each other. So while there's a little bit of an upfront risk, I think over time that risk becomes lower and lower.

CO: Do you believe there are cardiologists who are doing surgeries that are not necessary?

JB: I think that's a very difficult question to answer. I think people believe deep down that if you have a closed blockage and you open it up, patients will do better. But I think there's now a preponderance of data that really suggests that medicines are really really good and there's no cogency to bring someone to the lab to open up their arteries with either a stent through a bypass surgery. Now, I want to point out that we did not [inaudible] patients who are having something called an acute coronary syndrome -- heart attack or unstable...those patients still should and must get their arteries open. So we did not look at those people. We also did not evaluate patients that have a very significant amount of chest discomfort. They probably too have to have their arteries open. But I think what we've shown is that in patients that have an abnormal stress test, even in those with a very abnormal stress test, there really is no urgency to open up their arteries.

CO: We're seeing this with many diseases, aren't we? There is new research that shows that maybe we can back away from intervention -- maybe surgeries or radical interventions aren't necessary, and that we can monitor people, give them drugs or whatever. As you say, they're better drugs now. But people themselves -- is there not a lot of pressure from the patients who are saying, well doctor I've read, this is what seems to be the course I should be on. Do you feel that? Is there a psychological need on the part of people to see that something radical has been done?

JB: Patients really want what is best for them, right. And sometimes they hear from their friends, their family, that you know they had a stent placed and now they're going to live longer. And I think studies like this are extremely important, both for the health care professionals, but also for the patients out there, right, to know that there is really no rush. And I agree with you. I think that we have to get that message out there.

CO: Do you think that your study and the results should change how doctors treat heart patients?

JB: Yes, I do. I believe that after this study, I think there will be some relaxation. So in the past if somebody had a very abnormal stress test, many times the stress tester would call the physician say, bring them to the hospital and let's open up their artery. I think our studies should stop that. It should basically say we do not need to rush. Let's make sure our patients are on great medicine. Let's have been start doing exercise. And one of two things can happen: they can feel better and I think they will not need an intervention. If a patient, however, still has discomfort, if they're still having chest pain, if they're still having shortness of breath, I think then a procedure can be done which will hopefully make them feel better.

CO: We will leave it there. Dr. Berger, thank you.

JB: Of course. Have a great day.

DF: Dr. Jeffrey Berger is a cardiologist and the director of the Center for Prevention of Cardiac Disease at New York University's Langone Health Center. He was the co-investigator on the study presented over the weekend at the American Heart Association's annual scientific conference. We reached him in Philadelphia.

[Music]

Quebec coroner: Phoenix

Guest: Pascale Boulay

DF: A Quebec coroner is calling on Ottawa to heed the warning of a public servant's death. Linda Deschatelets worked at the Canada Revenue Agency. She took her own life in December 2017. Pascale Boulay is the coroner tasked with the investigation. Ms. Boulay's report describes a woman facing a pile-up of familiar human challenges. And it describes an employer that says all the right things about mental health, but when it came to the crunch the corner says the federal government didn't show much humanity at all. We reached Pascale Boulay in Gatineau, Quebec.

CO: Ms. Boulay what kind of pressure was Linda Deschatelets under toward the end of 2017?

PASCALE BOULAY: You have to understand that Linda Dechatelets -- she was a woman who had a lot of, how can I say? Internal battle. But she also was facing a lot of financial pressure. And the results of investigation found that this was the trigger element that led to her fatal decision.

CO: Her decision to kill herself.

PB: To kill herself.

CO: Because you did a really thorough investigation. You wanted to know why this woman would take her life. What did you learn about her problems? She had these back problems. She was in a lot of pain. What else did you learn about her?

PB: Well, we discovered first her medical file indicated that she has a serious back condition which was very much documented. Also, as I said, she had personal issues which were mostly dependence issue -- addiction issues. But that's not what caused her to commit suicide, in my view. And the financial problems that she had. One of them was her pay. There were some money that was always retrieved and there were very very little follow up. Despite her numerous request for follow up, for answers, she actually says you know I'm at risk to lose my house. All of her requests remain without any response.

CO: This was so interesting in your report how you document what it is for somebody who is in her situation. She is under a lot of stress. She is in a lot of pain. She is not able to work. She's is taking sick days. And she's coming up against really a machine, isn't she? I mean when she's trying to get the government -- her employer to understand what's going on. What did she encounter from the government when she was not being paid?

PB: She got no response. What she encountered was that her paycheck -- there was some money missing. One paycheck. she has 300 dollars missing. The other one is almost 500 dollars missing. And she is going online with the forms that are available to the employees to say, okay here is my situation. There is money missing on my paycheck. I need a detailed account because -- and she does share with them -- I am at risk of losing my house and I have difficulty paying my mortgage. I'm not going to be able to pay my mortgage if that keeps on going. And there are never no response. So it's wonderful that you have those online forms, but there's nobody that responds and there's nobody to talk to. So what's the point of saying what is your problem when nobody actually addresses the issue?

CO: And we're talking about this notorious Phoenix pay system that Ottawa uses. So there is no human being. She can contact no person to whom she can lay her case out and say please help?

PB: That's exactly how it works. You fill in a form and you wait for somebody to respond eventually. But, you know, when you've been waiting for three months to have somebody responding to you, it's pretty long. And that's why I say that is, in my view, a psychological health and safety issue. And if you want to be serious about wellness in the workplace, you're going to have to start paying attention to the way that HR and compensation works because I don't really see how it cannot cause some kind of emotional distress and some psychological distress when nobody ever responds to you.

CO: You write in your report that she ran out of paid sick leave. Her department sent her an email to explain that she would automatically be docked pay for taking sick days. Email advised in an event she missed additional days, other amounts would be deducted. As you point out, she's up against all these problems. Loans about to be called. And no further follow ups with her were done. The last email. And then you write the last email came eight days before her death. How convinced are you that she would be alive today if it wasn't for how she was dealt with by the system?

PB: You know what, Carol? I don't know. I cannot say this. I'm not saying that she has no internal battles. And I'm not saying that she was not owing government any money if she had no further sick leave available. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, can this have been addressed in another way? One thing is sure is that it would have been better handled because there were other options available. I'm quite certain that there are other options available and the way that the system works, it does not provide any flexibility.

CO: There is a report that the people dealing with this Phoenix system, 76 percent of the members of the union say that the Phoenix fiasco has affected their mental health. It's just something -- people are near the breaking point. If you could speak to Prime Minister Trudeau, what would you tell him about Linda Dechateletes?

PB: I would exactly tell him exactly what I just said in my report. You know to implement the national standard for psychological health and safety in the workplace and essentially that standard is a toolkit for managers, for HR, for any kind of organization really to better identify the psychological risk factor that may lead employees to really have some kind of emotional distress at work. Make it mandatory so that managers and HR organizations and every department are actually well-trained to identify and to address psychological factors. And that financial insecurity is one of them. The other thing would be to have a serious discussion with the unions to address the way that HR and compensation services work so that you know there are quick follow up to pay issues.

CO: Put some humanity back in the system, eh?

PB: Yeah.

CO: Ms. Boulay thank you so much.

PB: You're very welcome.

DF: Pascale Boulay is a Quebec coroner. We reached her in Gatineau.

[Music]

Gelato flavours record

Guest: Tina Misceo

DF: Roasted red pepper with feta cheese. Pear and gorgonzola. Standard flavor combinations on a dinner menu. But La Casa in East Vancouver is a gelato shop. For almost four decades the shop has been adding unorthodox flavors -- and adding...and adding. In the end, it has created 238 flavors, which has now earned La Casa a Guinness World Record. We reached co-owner Tina Misceo at the gelato shop in Vancouver.

CO: Tina, congratulations.

TINA MISCEO: Oh, thank you.

CO: Did you ever expect that you would have 238 gelato flavors at your shop?

TM: Yes, I did expect it. [Chuckles] That's what my dad strives for. So we've been slowly growing our flavors and we've reached 238. And the reason why we reached 238 is because we ran out of room. We have no more room to put more freezers in. So we're stuck at 238 for now. We'll see what the future holds.

CO: But that's only a part of the flavors that you've had in rotation, right?

TM: Oh yes. Yes. We make close to 600 flavors of gelato, sorbetto, yogurts and sugar free.

CO: Okay. So can I get a vanilla?

TM: Of course. Yes. We got one of the best vanilla's you'll find around. We use real tahini vanilla and it has little specks of vanilla bean in there. And it's fantastic.

CO: But I can also get a roasted garlic, kimchi, wasabi, vodkas caesars. What else?

TM: We have durian which is the smelly sticky Asian fruit. I have a pear gorgonzola with blue cheese, which is fantastic. One of my favorites. We have a traditional strawberry. We have a Death by Mango which is a mango with a raspberry swirl to make it the death in the mango. We have aged balsamic vinegar. Right now we have pumpkin cheesecake. Pumpkin spice latte. We're going to be making gingerbread and candy canes for Christmas season. I have so many, Carol. I can go on and on and on -- and could be here the whole day.

CO: Okay. But one of them that appeals to me -- it sounds weird -- but curried ice cream sounds good. But chocolate bacon, I'm trying to imagine that.

TM: Yes, it's actually quite popular. We make a few different bacon ones. We do a chocolate bacon. And then also, I know this is going to sound even weirder, a peanut butter bacon. In every bite you have a little bit of peanut butter and then you have a little bit of bacon as well.

CO: How did you come up with all these flavors?

TM: Well, my dad built the building that we're currently in back in 94, and we started with only 40 flavors. He wanted to outdo Baskin-Robbins. Baskin-Robbins has 31. He was like well, we're going to up them. We're going to do 40. So we opened our store with 40 flavors. And then that wasn't good enough for him. He was like, maybe we can do more. In the beginning with all the weird ones, like the roasted garlic, the wasabi, the kimchi -- it was my dad. You know, the pear gorgonzola blue cheese -- he was at home one day and he was eating it together, he was like when I go to work tomorrow, I'm going to try blending this all in and make it into gelato. And somehow it works. We have people come in that will get a scoop of garlic and a scoop of kimchi and they walk out happier than a kid in a candy store. So it worked. And then we get a lot of customer input these days too. And some of the customers -- they come up with a real wacky flavors and we look at them and we are like, well, I don't know if we can do that. We tried some pretty weird ones.

CO: Like what?

TM: So one time some Filipino customers came in and they said, back home we have this delicatessen called Bagoong. So my dad's like, what is it? And they're like, it's fermented fish. So we're like, come on! So he's like, you know what? I'm going to go find it. I'm going to try making it. You come back in a week's time, you can give us a taste. They were so excited. We found the bagoong. It's the fermented fish. And I didn't think anything could smell as bad as durian. But bagoong [laughs] takes the cake. And we made it. And those customers came back and they were all excited. And my dad eats anything -- he can eat anything. And even with this, he was like, no I can't do this. [Laughter] It was pretty bad. But when our customers came back in, they were so excited and they tasted it. They're like Vince you hit it right on the mark. But this is not made for ice cream. I tell all my customers about the weird ones, if you don't like eating it regularly --like you don't like blue cheese in your salads, in your dips, you're not going to like it because we put it in gelato. We don't have a secret thing to make it taste better. We're just making it taste what it is. But in a cold dessert. So if you don't like it regularly, you're not going to like it in gelato.

CO: What does your dad think of getting the Guinness World Record for gelato?

TM: As you can imagine, he's proud. Right. So he's proud. Everyone's quite happy. It's quite an accomplishment.

CO: But is that what he wanted? Did he want to get a world record?

TM: My dad is retired now. So to him, it's like he's just happy we have the business to keep it going. It is just to keep going. Yeah. He loves it. He was down here for the day and he enjoyed himself.

CO: I understand you also get the odd celebrity coming in. Martha Stewart dropped in for gelato.

TM: Martha Stewart was in a few years back. Yes. She heard about us and called us up and wanted to come down and see what our shop was all about.

CO: Do you remember what flavor Martha Stewart wanted?

TM: She tried everything. As you can imagine -- she loved it. She enjoyed the passion fruit raspberry. She tried to durian. She'd had durian before so she knew what to expect, but she never had it in gelato before. She just went around the store and she just sampled as much. You know just went around. And what she ended up with, I don't recall. I really don't.

CO: You're going to celebrate with a brand new flavor. What is it?

TM: How do you celebrate? You celebrate with champagne. So we decided to go with a Dom Perignon champagne with 24 karat gold flakes mixed with the sorbet.

CO: Well, that sounds worthy. This is worthy of a celebration. And Tina good luck with your shop and we'll talk to you next time when you get to 610.

TM: There we go. For sure. For sure. Thank you very much.

DF: Tina Misceo is the co-owner of La Casa Gelato in Vancouver, B.C.

[Music]

Titan Two

DF: The real estate agents are calling it a "bold opportunity." And some prospective buyers are all fired up about i: for a cool-as-the-Cold-War 395 thousand dollars U.S. you could own your very own Titan Two Missile Complex. Titan Twos were intercontinental ballistic missiles that in the 60s and 70s, the United States equipped with nuclear warheads designed to destroy half of humanity. Now a decommissioned subterranean launch site outside Tucson, Arizona, could be yours, complete with missile tube, control centre, and nine explosion resistant steel doors. To quote the listing, "This property was once one of the most top secret of government assets and is now ready to fulfill a new mission. That mission is for you to define. Amongst the limitless scenarios, secure a storage facility, underground bunker. Remarkable residents -- literally living down under. The property is situated on a 12-plus acre parcel with boundless views. Private, yet not too remote. Quick, easy access to Tucson and just 20 minutes for supplies. For the curious, but not the serious." The photos show rust on the control panels. So this Dr. Strangelove dream-pad may need a blast or two of TLC. But as they say in the nuclear real estate game, that'll just reduce the risk of an all-out bidding war.

[Music]

CO: We are at the end of this edition of As It Happens. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One. And if you want to listen to our program live or on demand anytime, make sure you download the CBC Listen app. I'm Carol Off. Thanks for listening.

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November 18, 2019 Episode Transcript

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