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The AIH Transcript for October 08, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Tom Allen

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

TOM ALLEN: Good evening, I'm Tom Allen. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

TA: Tonight:

CO: Cross talk over crosstalk. Six candidates plus five moderators divided by just two hours equals a federal leaders' debate our guest describes as one "awesome fail".

TA: So that's the way the ball bounces. Torn between preserving its cool reputation and preserving its profits, the NBA goes with "profits" — and trips over itself apologizing to China.

CO: You just knew a planet with a ring that big had a huge entourage. Scientists find 20 new moons in Saturn's orbit, making it the "moon king" of the solar system — and our guest says there are still more to be found.

TA: All in the same boat. Seasoned skipper Emily Penn tells us why she's taking 300 women on a two-year round-the-world sailing expedition to tackle plastic pollution.

CO: Nothing dentured, nothing gained. In examining the contents of a fatberg that grew in the sewers near a British retirement town, scientists find a few artefacts specific to the locals — including a set of false teeth.

TA: And...inside yolk. Somehow, an egg kept turning up on the bed of a woman in Maine — and then she discovered her six-month-old chicken was sneaking into her house on her nest behaviour.

TA: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that knows some stories have many layers — and some have just one.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Federal debate format, Saturn moons, chicken and egg

Federal debate format

Guest: Elly Alboim

TA: It remains to be seen whether Canada's federal leaders changed voters' minds at last night's debate. But it seems like they may have given viewers headaches. It didn't take long for people to weigh in on the debate itself. And the feedback was less than glowing. People called the format everything from "boring", to "superficial", to "stupid". Here's a clip from last night, starting with Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer, on abortion rights.

SOUNDCLIP

ANDREW SCHEER: And like millions of Canadians, I am personally pro-life. And it is okay in this country to have a difference of opinion. Something you do not recognize.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Yes but Canadians need to know…

[Crosstalk…So much crosstalk!]

TA: A flurry of voices from last night's federal leader's debate, which featured six leaders and five moderators. Elly Alboim has some strong opinions about last night's format. He leads strategic communications at Earnscliffe Strategy Group, and formerly served as CBC's parliamentary bureau chief. We reached him in Ottawa.

CO: Elly, listening to that clip from last night, does it give you a headache?

ELLY ALBOIM: [slight chuckle] It doesn't give me a headache, but it gives me lots of reason not to watch.

CO: But do you think people turned it off?

EA: Oh, I have no idea, Carol. But it's the worst of what these debates can be, and it's a function of the way the thing was organized. And I thought it was a bit of a travesty.

CO: You called it an awesome fail, and you said that the night was far from the public service it should have been.

EA: Debates are a public service. People have the right to listen to their leaders tell them what kind of leaders they'll be, what the vision for the country is. They have the right to listen to that at some length, so it's coherent. The problem is that we've entered into a situation where the TV networks and the consortium kind of decide on the pacing of this thing and how many you know pounds of stuff they want to put into a small bag. And all of a sudden, it becomes a TV show. And it just becomes a cacophony.

CO: Some people I spoke with said they thought it was chaotic and incoherent, but they watched every minute of it because they're waiting for the zingers, aren't they?

EA: The research doesn't show that. It's the partisans who are waiting for the zingers. Most people are there because they want information. A lot of them are undecided or uncommitted. And they genuinely are trying to find out how to inform their vote. I think you would have noticed that the ordinary Canadians who actually asked questions during the debate all asked substantive questions, without any hidden agendas, without any zingers in them. They simply wanted information. And to give them a circus really doesn't fulfill the reason they're there.

CO: One of the lines that Jagmeet Singh had in the debate last night: a man has no position in a woman's right to choose. Here's another one from NDP leader Jagmeet Singh.

SOUNDCLIP

JAGMEET SINGH: You do not need to choose between Mr. Delay and Mr. Deny. There is another option. We are committed to a real plan that's going to take on the biggest polluters. It's going to take on the powerful interests. Because that's what we need to do if we want to build a better future…

ELIZABETH MAY: What is your target?

JS: It's going to mean taking on the powerful.

CO: Don't you think that lines like that Jagmeet Singh, because he’s being retweeted, they are putting that, disseminating it widely. Isn't that something that resonates with voters?

EA: Maybe. I guess we'll see in the next 48 to 72 hours. Look, I think he understood the format. He spent his time delivering one liners, repeating talking points, and being self-deprecating. That's all you can actually do in that format. But if you listen to that clip very carefully, there was not a single detail about how he would proceed on that policy. It was all aspirational and substance-less.

CO: This is the first debate that was organized to this independent commission. It was, of course, something that was created by the Liberal government to have a process that was more fair because it had been considered in the past to be not fair. That there were too many influences too many personal or private interests that were involved in that. So that was how was decided. And it was to reach as many voters as possible. So how do you think it could have been done differently?

EA: Well, the reason was that a lot of people wanted to wrest control of these debates away from the television networks, who really try to impose a different kind of frame on what should be a public service exercise. There was a need to regularize the system, take it out of the hands of a consortium, and put it into the hands of the debate commission. That debate commission got formed, and promptly gave it back to the consortium. Declared it a journalistic exercise, and washed its hands of it. So we actually went in full circle, and we returned to exactly the problem we had before all of this started.

CO: Well, how would you have done it differently? I mean, there are six party leaders. Right away, that's going to create a big circus tent, isn't it?

EA: It depends on what your objective is. If your objective is to promote information transfer and have leaders speak to the electorate, then you give them specific periods of time to address specific questions. You cut off the mics of everybody else, except the one talking. You open up the format so people can have more than 30 seconds to respond. I cheerfully concede that will not be as entertaining to watch. It won't be a hockey game, it won’t be a boxing match, but it may actually provide viewers and voters with information they want. It's a question of whether you want production value and entertainment at fast-pace or you want information. You and I are not going to talk for 30 seconds or 40 seconds. You want more than that. So you're going to allocate six, seven, or eight minutes to this thing because you believe that you need to get more detail. Well, why is that any different when we're trying to elect the leader of the country?

CO: Can you point to a debate in the past that you can say that one was very successful, that did exactly what you're saying should be done in a debate?

EA: I think that the 1984 debate, now there's only three candidates there, but they got a lot more time to speak, and they still got some interactivity when Mr. Mulroney you know famously attacked Mr. Turner.

CO: Okay, I’ll just stop you there because we're going to play a clip of that. This is exactly what you're describing with Mr. Mulroney and Mr. Turner.

SOUNDCLIP

BRIAN MULRONEY: You, sir, owe the Canadian people a deep apology for having indulged in that kind of practice with those kinds of appointments.

JOHN TURNER: Well, I've told you, and told the Canadian people, Mr. Mulroney, that I had no option.

BM: You had an option, sir. You could have said I am not going to do it. This is wrong for Canada. You had an option, sir, to say no. And you chose to say yes to the old attitudes and the old stories of the Liberal Party. That is not good enough for Canadians.

JT: I had no option.

BM: That isn't a vowel of failure. That is a confession of non-leadership. And this country needs leadership. You had an option, sir. You could have done better.

CO: Wow! That was the exchange that we know. And that's a zinger, but it had an influence on the outcome of that election, did it not?

EA: Sure. But you know just because it's a zinger didn't also suggest that Mr. Mulroney was a significant leadership candidate, that he was a potential prime minister, that he could handle himself in a debate. All those subtexts were at play as well. Think back to the last 30 years of these things. Remember, that was 35 years ago. How many of these things can you actually remember as zingers? Maybe three, maybe four, there've been a lot of debates in that period of time.

CO: Do you think that last night's debate made any impact on how people might vote this year?

EA: Well, we'll know in 48 hours or 72 hours.

CO: Well, you've said that before. Why 48 to 72? What’s the math there?

EA: Because it takes time for people to absorb what media say about it. It takes time for them to talk to fellow workers and you know the friends and family. And remember this is Thanksgiving weekend, People are going to sit down at kitchen tables or dining room tables and they’re going to talk about the election, and they're going to try and influence each other. So I don't think we'll really know till Tuesday probably whether anything has happened or not.

CO: We may hear even more interesting debate at those Thanksgiving dinners.

EA: Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? They'll be more civil and more detailed [CO and EA share a laugh].

CO: Elly, thank you.

EA: You're welcome.

TA: Elly Alboim leads strategic communications at Earnscliffe Strategy Group. We reached him in Ottawa. Lisa Raitt may not have been on that stage last night — but she sure wasn't pulling any punches on our show. The Conservatives' deputy leader told Carol her big frustration was with the rock-'em-sock-'em nature of this year's election campaign. You can hear the full interview at: www.cbc.ca/aih. Meanwhile, here's a bit of Carol's conversation with Lisa Raitt.

SOUNDCLIP

LISA RAITT: One thing, Carol, I am hearing on the doorsteps, and in some cases, why people don't want to take sides or they don't want to tell you how their voting. Is they don't want to draw attention to their vote because they don't want to get in arguments with other people.

CO: Why do you think it's so nasty?

LR: I'd love to know why. Maybe because it's so tight in the polls, maybe because that's what happens when people decide that there's no record to run on, we're not going to talk about policy necessarily. I think the Liberals and the Conservatives and the NDP have put out — and the Greens, of course, — we've put out some fair amount of policy. There's a lot of policy out there to chew over and discuss on taxes, on climate. But, at the end of the day, the stuff that's catching the attention of the media that is leading and in most of the media reporting has to do with personal matters. And I find that to be I think people are pretty sick of it.

CO: But I listened carefully, you didn't point a finger and say it's nasty because the Liberals are doing it. There has been dirt flinging in all directions, there are personal attacks, there's past stories on both sides. So it's a free for all, would you not say?

LR: I am not pointing the finger at any one party in terms of what is being discussed. And for candidates that they may have had — and candidates that we may have had — it just seems to be that it's a gotcha kind of campaign, as opposed to something that is being discussed at the doors in terms of policy. And as a result, voters are turned off.

TA: That was Conservative Deputy Leader Lisa Raitt talking to Carol on last night's show. If you missed it, you can find it on our website. That's at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Saturn moons

Guest: Scott Sheppard

TA: Saturn is the show-offiest planet in the solar system. All Jupiter can do is stare balefully at it with its red eye from 649 million kilometres away and envy its fancy ring. But at least Jupiter could comfort itself with the knowledge that it had the most moons of any planet. But no, now, Saturn has even stolen the "moon king" title from its hapless, giant, one-eyed neighbour. That's what the Carnegie Institution for Science said yesterday, as it announced that researchers had found 20 new moons around Saturn. That means Saturn has the most known moons of the planets in the solar system: 82. And Scott Sheppard says there could be dozens more to find around that already-arrogant planet. Mr. Sheppard is an astronomer who's part of the team that made these discoveries. We reached him in Washington DC.

CO: Scott, how do you know that Saturn has so many moons?

SCOTT SHEPPARD: So we've been surveying around Saturn in the last few years to discover moons around Saturn. We've gone very deep — deeper than anyone's gone before — and we're using the largest telescopes in the world with the largest cameras in the world. The camera is about the size of a small car — and so we've been uncovering every little nook and cranny around Saturn, and trying to find the small moons.

CO: There are also moons I understand you have detected that are going counter to the way that Saturn is, is that right?

SS: Yes, the moons that we've just discovered have fairly inclined orbit to Saturn. Some are going around the planet in the opposite direction, the planet rotates, and some are going in the same direction as the planet rotates. So in a sense, yes, some are going backwards, and some are going forwards. And we think this is because these objects didn't originally form with Saturn. We think they are original comments or asteroids that formed in the Saturn region, happen to be passing by Saturn, and got captured by the planet in the distant past.

CO: Right, into its gravitational orbit, is that right?

SS: Yeah. And the interesting thing about that, in the current solar system, Saturn cannot capture an object of the moon because you need to somehow slow it down to capture it. But in the distant past, when the plants were still forming, we think there was a lot of gas and dust around Saturn. And so we think these objects interacted with that gas and dust, and we think Saturn basically formed this way. A lot of these objects fell into Saturn and basically make Saturn as we see it today. But these moons are kind of the last remnants of the objects that formed Saturn. Instead of finding the planet, they got captured into orbits around the planet. And we can see them today.

CO: And some of these moons are quite small, right?

SS: Yeah, so the ones that we're finding are only a few kilometers in size — two to five kilometres in size. So they're fairly small, and we believe Saturn probably has even smaller moons. We think down to one kilometre in size is probably a hundred moons around Saturn or so. But our current technology can only see to about two to five kilometres in size. And if we relate that to other planets, Uranus and Neptune are even further than Saturn. So it's even harder to find the moons over there. So we do believe there's many even tens of kilometer-sized moons around Uranus and Neptune yet to be found. So there's still a lot of work to do to find these moons.

CO: We know what it's like to moon-gaze on earth. And I guess if could be on Saturn [chuckles], what would it be like from the surface of Saturn to be watching these moons’ orbit?

SS: Yeah. So if you're on the surface of Saturn, just looking up and there's 82 now known moons of Saturn. So the sky would be full of basically these moving dots. And these moons are fairly far away, and they're fairly small, so they would just be small points of light. But there are the larger moons as well like Titan, which is bigger than the planet Mercury itself, so there's some very large mirrors around Saturn as well. And those would be several of those as well as just moving in the sky. So it would be unlike the famous “Star Wars” scene where you see two setting suns or two or three moons in the sky, this would be some eighty two moons in the sky. It would be pretty cool.

CO: That's amazing! Now, Jupiter has been considered to be the “Moon King”, as they call it, or has the crown of being the Moon King, which I think should actually be the “Moon Queen”. But now does it look like Saturn has the Moon Queen crown?

SS: Saturn is now is crowned the king or queen of moons because it now has the most moons. It surpassed Jupiter, which has 79 known moons. And Saturn is further away than Jupiter it, so it's actually harder to find moons around Saturn because it's further away. And so the smaller objects are even fainter. And so that we've actually found more moons around Saturn than Jupiter strongly shows that Saturn really is the legitimate Moon King or Queen because we do believe it really does have more moons.

CO: I understand some of these moons have a kind of Canadian connection. Can you explain that?

SS: Yeah. So in the year 2000, some outer moons of Saturn were found by a group based in Canada — at the University of British Columbia in Victoria. And they used what they called the “Canada France Hawaii Telescope” — it’s a telescope in Hawaii, but it’s partly owned by Canada to survey Saturn. And they found a few of these moons as well. So these moons actually come in groups. We see several groups of these outer moons. So we actually think these orbital groups, each one was once a much bigger moon — 50 to 100 kilometers in size — that has been broken apart due to collisions with either other moons or passing comets. And so we see fragments of moons that are clustered in groups. And one of these groups is called the Inuit Group. So we name moons that are found in that group after Inuit mythology. And so up until this year, there was four of them known in that Inuit group, and we just discovered two new ones now. So there's two names from the Inuit mythology that need to be done. And we are running a naming contest for these new moons. So we want the whole world to try and name these moons. And so Inuit mythology is one of the sources we are looking to name moons from.

CO: There's also Norse and a Gaelic group, right?

SS: Yeah. So there's a Norse group, so Norse mythology and Gaelic mythology are the two other groups that we've discovered moons in. And so those three mythologies are what we looking for to name the moons after. And if you use Twitter, all you have to do is go on Twitter and hashtag #namesaturnsmoons, and tell us why you want to name a certain moon after a certain god or a goddess. And videos and pictures are highly recommended to show your enthusiasm, and why you want to get these things named.

CO: All right, we'll pass that on to our listeners. Just one last question, how did you come to be a moon chaser?

SS: Yeah. I mean I've always loved astronomy. I remember when I was in fifth grade or so, I got this astronomy magazine that my parents gave me, and it was a diagram of all the known moons in the solar system. And for some reason I just always loved moons. I remember I put this diagram up on my wall. And so I've just always thought to see how many moons each planet has. And to be able to now add to that diagram to fill that diagram and to fill that diagram out is basically a dream come true.

CO: Scott, it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

SS: Yup, great to hear.

CO: Bye.

SS: Okay, bye.

TA: That was astronomist Scott Sheppard in Washington DC. He gave details there about how you can send in your name ideas. But you can also let us know what you think the moons should be called. You can reach out to us on Twitter and Facebook, both: @cbcasithappens. Our email is: aih@cbc.ca. And we always love to hear your voice — so give us a call at 416-205-5687.

[Music: World music]

Chicken and egg

Guest: Kate McCormick

TA: At fancy hotels, it's not uncommon to open the door and discover a chocolate or other confectionary, waiting there on your pillow. Just a thoughtful touch, to say, "Welcome, wealthy guest" — a little something to make you feel special. But when Kate McCormick returned home and discovered a treat on her bed, she didn't feel special so much as confused. First, she wasn't staying in a hotel. And second, the treat left behind wasn't a chocolate. It was an egg — an actual egg. We reached Kate McCormick in Waldo, Maine.

CO: Kate, what did you think when you saw this egg on your bedroom pillow?

KATE MCCORMICK: I did not know what to think. I was so surprised to find an egg on my bed that my first thought was I looked to my dog — who was standing there beside me — and I thought Jake you have never picked up an egg in your life. Did you pick up an egg today and bring it upstairs?

CO: Now just for people to understand, this wouldn't be an egg possibly from your refrigerator, right? What connection do you have with eggs?

KM: So I have 19 laying hens right now, who live in a chicken coop, and have some free-range to a fenced-in backyard. And I have had chickens here for three years and have never found an egg in my bed before.

CO: [laughing] Did you ever find an egg in your house?

KM: I have never found an egg in my house. I have found an egg in a pile of leaves. And I have found an egg on porch furniture. But never in my house before.

CO: Okay, so you've narrowed it down. You do believe one of your chickens laid an egg in your bed?

KM: I do believe at this point in time, it was for sure a chicken. But, like I said, I have 19. So I was thinking how am I going to catch this chicken in the act? So it was very, very funny. I have to tell you the culprit had just joined the interview as well. She is in my house at this moment [CO laughs]. I sat down on the couch, and she is coming to join us.

CO: Can we hear her?

KM: She is right here. So if she makes any noise, you will definitely hear her.

CO: Now, so how is the chicken getting into your house?

KM: My back door is covered by a magnetic screen, so there's no actual outside door. It’s just as a sheet of screen that attaches with a magnet so my dog can walk freely in and out of the house. And I had left the door open that day because I knew I was going to be gone a really long time. And I thought well, Jake, my dog, loves to be outside with the chickens, but never imagined one of the chickens would also make her way to the door.

CO: You're convinced now this one chicken is the one who came in and laid the egg upstairs?

KM: So the day after, I was up in the morning having coffee in my living room — where I am now — and I could hear somebody or something walking up the steps. And so were right where my back door comes in there's a set of steps that leads to my upstairs. And sure enough, she had come back in the door, and had made her way right up the steps, and she caught me watching her. And she acted like she was doing nothing out of the ordinary up there — very innocent-looking. So I kind of snuck away, and I let her have some space. And she scratched at the blankets, and arranged the blankets, and I could hear from right outside my bedroom door that she was making the type of noises that a chicken make her and she lays an egg. She kind of clucks and squawks and carries on for a bit, and I went and looked, and again there was an egg in my bed.

CO: [chuckles] Why do you think she is doing that?

KM: So she has always been the most people-friendly chicken. She seems to really enjoy company. And I think that she has found herself a nice cozy spot to do it.

CO: but do you think she's sending you a message. I mean I understand you're also a midwife, right? Do you think she knows that?

KM: I am a midwife, so she knows that I am in the delivery business. But she definitely has a special bond with me and my dog. And it's only growing more because she's now insisting that she is inside while we're here.

CO: [chuckling] What does she look like?

KM: She is a Dominique chicken, so she is black-and-white-speckled. Most people are familiar with a Barred Rock type chicken, and she looks very similar to that.

CO: Uh-huh. And so is she special in any other way, or is it just that he seems to think that she lives with you?

KM: So she also really has a close bond with my dog. They oftentimes are outside sitting right next to each other. Or she will sit on top of him. And she has always had this bond with him since she was a hatchling, and has really just you know kind of put herself in the midst of everything. If you sit down outside to have your morning coffee, she comes and sits on your lap. And you better watch your coffee because she might try and drink that as well.

CO: Now how does Jake feel about this intimacy with the chickens?

KM: Oh, Jake loves it. They actually share a food bowl at times. He really enjoys having them right by his side.

CO: So Jake is a bit of a mother hen?

KM: He really is. He has always made it his mission — even to this day, now that they're out in the coop — we go outside, and he won't use the bathroom, he won't run around, he goes right to the chicken coop and checks on his chickens. And he's always right by my side when we call them in at night as well. He likes to say goodnight to them too.

CO: [CO laughing] All right, Kate, we'll let you go and deal with your chickens. And thanks for telling us the story.

KM: Oh, anytime. Appreciate it. They’re such funny creatures, and I'm happy to be able to share this fun mystery of an egg layer on the bed.

CO: Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

KM: Have a wonderful day.

TA: Kate McCormick is a midwife who raises chickens. We reached her in Waldo, Maine. And you can see video — and a photo — and a photo of the unnamed chicken caught in the act on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Old show tune]

NBA/China dispute, Sidmouth fatberg

NBA/China dispute

Guest: Ben Golliver

TA: China's fury at the NBA is not going away. As you've probably heard on the news, Chinese state TV — CCTV — has now cancelled broadcasts of upcoming preseason NBA games in the country. That's just the latest retaliation for a tweet posted — then quickly deleted — late last week by Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey, supporting protesters in Hong Kong. Here is what NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said earlier today about the latest move by China.

SOUNDCLIP

ADAM SILVER: CCTV announced that because of my remarks supporting Daryl Morey’s freedom of expression. Not the substance of his statement, but his freedom of expression, they were no longer going to air the Lakers-Nets preseason games that are scheduled for later this week. Again, it's not something we expected to happen. I think it's unfortunate. But if that's the consequences of us adhering to our values, we still feel it's critically important we adhere to those values. And certainly, I don't come here sort of either as the commissioner of the NBA as an American certainly to tell others how they should run their governments. I think, at the end of the day though, I am an American, and there are these values that are deeply rooted in the DNA of the NBA.

TA: NBA Commissioner Adam Silver speaking to the press earlier today. The controversy has now extended far outside the basketball court. High-profile politicians in the United States are chiming in, condemning the league for caving in to China. Ben Golliver covers the NBA for The Washington Post. We reached him in Los Angeles.

CO: Ben, what do you make of the remarks from Commissioner Adam Silver?

BEN GOLLIVER: Well, he is clearly playing cleanup. You know, Adam Silver has been kind of a media darling throughout his tenure as NBA commissioner. He's not used to being on the defensive. And right now, he's catching it from all sides. Of course, the Chinese government and Chinese business interests view him as supporting statements that they just believe are you know factually incorrect, and sort of an affront to the Chinese government in terms of Daryl Morey’s tweet in favour of the Hong Kong protesters. Now, at the same time, Adam Silver is facing significant pressure back in the United States. You have politicians from Elizabeth Warren to Ted Cruz criticizing him for putting the NBA’s business relationships with China above its principles of tolerance and a lot of progressive ideals that Adam Silver has spent years championing for his league. So he's in a very tight spot. He's not used to being the bad guy. He's kind of been to the player-friendly commissioner. And now everybody's mad at him.

CO: What's at stake for the NBA in China then?

BG: Billions of dollars, and 30 years of hard work trying to grow the game of basketball. You know they first set up a television deal with CCTV in the late 1980s. The NBA sees itself as a global league — even though the teams are primarily in the United States and one in Canada — they want to basically conquer the world with a global vision. They recently signed a one-point-five billion-dollar TV rights deal with Tencent in China. So the audience in China actually exceeds the audience in the United States. So for the NBA, they have to put this mess back together. There's not a situation where they're going to be able to walk away from China or be subjected to a Chinese boycott and still be able to continue on their current economic trajectory. If you were to take the Chinese piece out of their financial puzzle, all of that growth really starts to look different.

CO: People might be forgiven if they haven't heard it for thinking that the Houston Rockets General Manager Daryl Morey said something quite outrageous. But his tweet was simply fight for freedom. Stand with Hong Kong, which is pretty tame for the NBA even, and especially for Americans. What has he said since he deleted that tweet?

BG: Well, let's draw a line — because obviously we would interpret that as being fairly innocuous, but in China, that's the third-rail issue. Because there's been you know very heated protests in Hong Kong really going back four or five months. And it's become the kind of thing where you're kind of with the government or you're against the government. And they've taken a very hardline position against you know essentially anyone who's siding with Hong Kong publicly. He's in a very interesting spot, Daryl Morey, because he's the general manager of one of the most popular NBA teams in China. The Houston Rockets drafted Yao Ming in 2002, and he is the most famous Chinese basketball player ever, and he actually now serves as the president of the Chinese Basketball Association. And that relationship has you know allowed you know essentially China to adopt the Rockets. They would have Chinese beat writers covering games year after year after year. Houston has actually done specific jerseys in honour of the Chinese New Year. And they actually have a Chinese language website as well the Rockets do. So I think the Chinese are viewing his tweet rather than being innocuous, the Chinese view it not only as an American who's sort of interfering or stepping into what China believes is an internal domestic issue. But I think they also view this as an act of betrayal because of that relationship with the Rockets and because of his high profile position. I think they look at it and think well hey, Daryl Morey, we thought you were part of the family. You know why are you stepping on a turn and why are you questioning us like this? You know I think from Morey’s perspective, you know the fascinating thing is you know he's not really a Colin Kapernick-style protester here, right? I mean it's not like he's standing up for his values no matter what. He very quickly deleted the tweet, he tried to add additional context and some follow up statements where he said he didn't mean to offend. And he said that the pro-Hong Kong position was just one within a much wider and more complicated conversation. So I think he's trying to be pragmatic and allow business to kind of get back to usual. It isn't a case where you know he's trying to make a huge political stand no matter the consequences.

CO: You have said elsewhere that you think that Daryl Morey should apologize to the Hong Kong protesters. Why?

BG: I do because in this case, I think he's really done their cause more harm than good. I mean you could argue that he's sparked a conversation about Hong Kong. But what he really did was allow China the opportunity to flex its muscles. The NBA handled the initial fallout from this poorly, and it made China look stronger, and it made their very hardline position on the Hong Kong protesters. It spread that message worldwide. And the fact that he wasn't willing to double down on his support of the Hong Kong protesters, the fact that the NBA has left the Hong Kong protesters out entirely from all of their statements, winds up leaving those guys kind of hanging out to dry. And I think if his support for them had been sincere, and if he really meant it, I imagine he's feeling awful right now because I don't see any way you could spin this as a positive for their cause.

CO: One of your colleagues at the at the Washington Post, Sally Jenkins, she wrote about the controversy, this is a quote, get off the NBA’s back all you people who want sports to be the children's literature of your lost youth. [CO and BG chuckle] And then she points us to the many American corporations she said that have done the same kind of sell-out to China, will just bend to its wish at every turn. So she's questioning whether the NBA is being held to too high a standard here?

BG: Well, I think she's got a great point, which is that there is a lot of people with blood on their hands when it comes to dealing with China — especially a lot of major American corporations. The reason why is unique for the NBA, Adam Silver has been one of the loudest pro-China voices among American sports executives really anywhere. I mean he's made no secret at all about how much he covets that market and the consumers within that market. And to me, this episode is just really a reckoning for Adam Silver and the NBA. They have to realize they can't treat China solely in economic terms or solely in revenue potential terms. Clearly it's a political powerhouse that has the ability to spin a league like the NBA into not — as they have here over the last couple days — that I'm not sure the NBA was really prepared for.

CO: We will leave it there. Ben, thank you.

BG: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

TA: Ben Golliver covers the NBA for The Washington Post. He was in Los Angeles.

[Music: Ambient]

FOA: St. John’s cabbie award

AT: Probably didn't seem like the right place at the right time at the time. But Mike Stapleton — a Jiffy Cabs driver in St. John's, Newfoundland — says, quote, "I was meant to be there." Unquote. That may be true — because if Mr. Stapleton hadn't been driving down that particular road on that early May morning, four people may not be alive today. In May, Mr. Stapleton pulled four teenagers from a burning car — risking his life to get them out, just before the car burst into flames. And yesterday, at the St John's city council meeting, he was honoured with an award for his heroic act. Back in May, Mike Stapleton told guest host Gillian Findlay about the rescue. Here is part of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

MS: Oh I thought it was going to blow, right. So I walked around to the other side. I seen the young fellow he had a lot of blood on him so I said I don't know if I should move them. But then I saw the flame -- a little flame starting to come down through the dash board, got on the floor -- I said you have got to go out of here. I just undo his seatbelt and lifted him about 20 feet away from the car -- dragged him up. Oh my God. It was a horror story I tell you.

GF: And you did this all by yourself -- one guy.

MS: Yeah yeah yeah. And then one of our cab drivers -- a young girl -- showed up and I told her to go down and look after the young girl -- she was really in pain with her leg and that right. Two other people showed up. So I said go up above and look after the driver. So they carried them up another little bit right. I said that's going to blow. Never had the words out of my mouth. I had the girl moved that was on the sidewalk. And the flames started coming up from the car.

GF: Wow! And it blew, did it? I mean was there a big explosion?

MS: Oh yeah -- it caught on fire inside. [Inaudible].

GF: Oh my gosh.

MS: And my heart went up from mouth. So anyway when the police started to arrive he pulled right in front of the car and kaboom! The car blew up. Then it got real. The lump in my throat I said Oh my God -- I could've been in there. Anyway I got them out and they were in the hospital. And they survived it.

AT: That was St. John's, Newfoundland taxi driver Mike Stapleton, speaking with guest host Gillian Findlay in May. Yesterday, Mr. Stapleton was awarded for his bravery at a St. John's city council meeting.

[Music: Electronica]

Sidmouth fatberg

Guest: John Love

TA: We all know what the main component of a fatberg is. It's right there in the name. But besides bacon grease and cooking oil, there are other things lurking in those iceberg-sized sewer globs. And, depending on who lives nearby — as in, who's putting what in the sewers — those embedded items can vary. Earlier this year, we told you about a fatberg that utility workers had discovered in a coastal town in southwest England. Now scientists have dissected the so-called "Sidmouth fatberg". John Love from the University of Exeter led the team. We reached him in Manchester.

CO: Professor Love, how does one approach a lump of fatberg?

JOHN LOVE: Well, you have to be really, really careful because you don't know what's in there.

CO: Does it smell?

JL: Oh yes. It's horrible. It smells really very organic, shall we say? [CO laughs] There's just a real stench of sewer that comes with it. In terms of describing it, some of the fatberg is almost buttery in appearance. It's a yellowish. And you can see that it's very greasy to the touch. It feels slimy. But there is grit in there, and there are fibers in there, and you can really feel them as well. I suppose it's like wool dipped in candle wax.

CO: How do you keep from retching when you look at this?

JL: Well, I suppose it's just practice really, isn't it? [laughing] You get used to a lot. And I suppose as a biologist, I've dissected quite a few smelly things in my life. So this is just another one. It is not pleasant, but you get by.

CO: I don't think I could get used to it. But you must wear some protective clothing of some kind?

JL: Yes, we do. So when we were doing the fatberg dissection, we were wearing stab-proof gloves. And over those stab-proof gloves, we had just our normal neoprene gloves. We had our lab coats on with closed cuffs all done up to our neck. We had our safety goggles. We didn't need a mask because the work that we were doing was in a special hood that had a pane of glass in front of it. And we had our safety shoes on as well.

CO: Okay. So you have all those precautionary things on you because the possibility there's something sharp dangerous or toxic. So did you find anything like that in your fatberg?

JL: Well, actually — and this is sort of the good news — we didn't, which was also that for us the disappointing news. In terms of macroscopic things in the fatberg, we've mostly found wet wipes. We found the residues of nappies, and incontinence pads. We found sanitary products — female sanitary products. We even found some false teeth.

CO: What! You found false teeth?

JL: We did. We found a set of false teeth. So a lot of things go down the toilet that we're not really aware of

CO: Oh yeah.

JL: Yeah.

CO: Usually thrown there by children. But losing a set of false teeth, that must have been a distressing day for somebody?

JL: To be honest, That was the thing that nearly sent one of my colleagues over the edge. When he saw the false teeth in there, he felt it was like something out of a horror movie.

CO: [laughing] Oh god! So now this, of course, is different from what they've found in other fatbergs, isn't it? Can you describe how this differs?

JL: Well, the fatberg in London, for instance, contained a lot more sharps and things like needles and things from drug abuse. Actually, Sidmouth — where this fatberg is — is a very genteel coastal town. It's a holiday resort, and also inhabited mainly by retired people. So we did not find any drug paraphernalia. Instead, we find things that are more associated with older people.

CO: Like false teeth [laughing].

JL: Yes, like the false teeth.

CO: Because we know in London's East End, this mammoth fatberg they found. And we did some stories on that. And as you point out, they found cocaine. They found syringes, condoms. I guess reflecting a different lifestyle?

JL: That's right. And I think that's what makes these fatbergs actually quite interesting because they do clarify a little bit the social history of what's going on in a specific area. They seem to accumulate very, very quickly as well because in the U.K., water companies have to look at their sewers at least once every five years. Since Southwest's water has cleaned the sewer in which this was found, they've been back, they've looked, and they’ve actually found that there's a new deposit beginning. And it's already about seven centimetres deep.

CO: Good grief! I mean no messages about not flushing your wet wipes, your incontinence pads, your adult diapers that's not having any effect on people?

JL: Well, I think it probably will. But the thing is I think that as a society I think we're quite along the lines of sight, out of mind. And I think that, unfortunately, we don't necessarily think of the consequences of our actions. We kind of assume that if you put something in the sewer then it will eventually get to be treated and depolluted that way. But in a sense, that's just passing the problem downstream as it were.

CO: And now, of course, we know whether it's in London's East End, they actually have put a piece of that fatberg on display at the museum for people to see what they're doing to the sewers [laughing]. Any plans to do that in Sidmouth?

JL: Well, not in Sidmouth. I think that the museum in Exeter, they have a piece of fatberg that they were showing off to the public. But the sewer environment is very, very poor and oxygen. The minute you take it out of the sewer, it starts to decompose, almost like well essentially it's a dead organic body if you like. And it will decompose in oxygen. So it doesn't really subsist outside for very long unless you preserve it.

CO: Oh gosh! I don't think I want to hear any more about this. But I have to ask one last question. Any message out to see if anyone is looking for a set of false teeth?

JL: [laughing] would be nice. If they do need a pair of false teeth — an upper jaw — we can provide one. But I can't see it looked particularly pleasant. And I wouldn't want to do it in my mouth.

CO: Professor Love, thanks for speaking with us, I think.

JL: You're very welcome. Thank you for calling.

CO: Bye.

JL: Bye-bye.

TA: John Love is a professor of synthetic biology at the University of Exeter. He was in Manchester. If you want to see that hideous mass of flushed horrors known as the Sidmouth fatberg, by all means, visit our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Brexit: Update

TA: Bad news, everyone: time for a Brexit update. Today, the British government released what it called its "comprehensive" plan for a “no-deal” Brexit. Which is lacking all kinds of crucial details about Irish border issues, which means it's not totally comprehensive. Which means it's not comprehensive. Still, Prime Minister Boris Johnson insists that he's willing to crash out of the European Union on October 31st, if no deal is reached by then. And today, that looks more likely — after Mr. Johnson and German Chancellor Angela Merkel had a, quote, "frank exchange". In politics, that phrase is code for "someone was a jerk." You probably have a guess, but no: according to a U.K. government spokesperson, it was Ms. Merkel. She got too heavy, and too frank, and now, successful Brexit talks are, quote, "essentially impossible, not just now but ever". Unquote. Some are suggesting that, actually, Boris Johnson just needs a scapegoat, for when his non-comprehensive comprehensive plan fails to meet with EU approval. Among those critics is Donald Tusk, the president of the European council, who tweeted at Mr. Johnson, quote, "You don't want a deal, you don't want an extension, you don't want to revoke, quo vadis?" Unquote. "Quo vadis?" means, literally, "Where are you going?" And in Mr. Johnson's case, that would seem to be "through the motions" — and "nowhere fast".

[Music: Indie rock]

Part three: Plastic sailing eXXpedition, Inuktut language

Plastic sailing eXXpedition

Guest: Emily Penn

TA: Two years, 38-thousand nautical miles, and 300 women. Emily Penn hopes if you add that all up you'll find a solution to plastic pollution. Or — more accurately — a whole bunch of solutions. Ms. Penn is a skipper who founded an organization called eXXpedition back in 2014, to tackle the problem of plastics in the world's oceans — by sailing those oceans. And today, she set sail with the first of thirty groups of women who will be cruising every watery corner of the globe over the course of the next 24 months taking samples, crafting policy prescriptions, and surveying the situation firsthand. We reached Emily Penn in Plymouth, England shortly before she and her team took off.

CO: Emily, you're about to set sail from Plymouth. Can you tell us about the itinerary for the next two years?

EMILY PENN: Yes. So we're setting off around the world to 30 different voyage-lagged locations. So the first one is the Azores, and then we'll sail across the Atlantic onto the Caribbean, and beyond. And along the journey, we will visit four of these five oceanic gyres — the accumulation zones where plastic eventually ends up — and also the Arctic.

CO: What will you be looking for?

EP: We'll be studying plastic and toxic pollution. And through doing that, we will do manta-trawl samples, where we find out what's going on the surface of the ocean. But we're also going to be looking down into what's sinking, so into the water column, and also the seabed. And we're really trying to understand what plastic is out there, which types of waste are being mismanaged, and therefore, where are opportunities on land to solve it?

CO: We've already done, there's been studies, there's been research on this, what do you want to find out? What don't you know you want to learn on this trip?

EP: It's really about understanding, and what types of plastic are there? So we know that we have over five trillion fragments of plastic in the ocean. But one is we don't know what — if any — is sinking. But there's this huge discrepancy between the amount that we know is going in versus is to how much is there. So we expect that it's going down. But also, it's trying to understand is it tyre dust, is it microfibers from our clothing, is it preproduction pellets that haven't even got into the hands of a consumer yet? You know, really what is the plastic that's out there, and therefore, why do we need to be focusing our energies on land with industry and with policy change to really prevent any more of this plastic going in? And it's amazing that process of looking down a microscope and trying to dissect a sample plastic from plankton, and realizing just how hard it is to actually ever try and clean up. And that process for the crew is vital in their development on the issue and what they are able to then go on and do afterwards effecting change when they get home.

CO: The crew members on this voyage are entirely women, right?

EP: They are, yes.

CO: You can involve about 300 women all told.

EP: Exactly, yeah, 300 over the two years. And we have 14 onboard at any one time.

CO: Why just women?

EP: Um, originally I had a blood test to find out which chemicals I have inside my body. And it turned out a lot of these chemicals are endocrine disruptors that mimic hormones. And those really impact women when they're pregnant and stopping these important chemical messages moving around the body. And also we can pass them on to our children. So I thought why not tackle this issue with an all-female crew, and set out in 2014 to do so? And it was such a positive experience of how the crew came together, and the powerful experience that they had on board that we've decided to scale it.

CO: And what do you think conditions will be like? Because you've been on these kinds of voyages before. It's quite ambitious — and, of course, changing the crew members. What's it going to be like?

EP: Um, this first leg looks like it will be the most challenging. We're leaving the UK, and we're likely to have to sail upwind to get to the Azores — which is always the most challenging point of sail. But we've got four professional crew members on board, as well as some experienced sailors on the crew, and some who haven't been to sea before — who are going through rigorous safety training before we set off. And it'll certainly be a challenging experience for everyone.

CO: So it won't be 300 women at the same time in case anyone's thinking that. But you keep changing the crew members is that right as you go along.

EP: Exactly, yes.

CO: And the other thing that's really interesting is that this isn't 300 scientists. These are women from different kinds of backgrounds. Why do you want journalists, artists, teachers? What's the point of that?

EP: So we realize that there's no silver bullet solution to solving this plastics issue. But the good news is there are hundreds of things that we can do. But to do that, you need women from all different backgrounds and all different skill sets to tackle a problem from different angles. And so I really believe you know our power is actually in the diversity of what we can do when it comes to solving these global problems. So a designer, for example, and would really look at how we design our products that are made from plastic. We need chemists to develop new materials. And we need artists and communicators to really be able to do and shift behaviour. We have a lot of storytelling — of communicating — really to do, and really to get that message out there that actually it's not these islands of plastic that we can easily clean up, but it is trillions of microplastic that are ingrained in marine life that are sinking to the seabed. And that we all on land have a responsibility to do something. And an opportunity because there's plenty that we can do. And that's a really important message that we need to tell.

CO: Do you think that somebody who is on this tour with you — on this trip — how would it change them? If I was on it, or if someone who knew a bit, or not very much, or even a lot, how do you think someone would come back different?

EP: Yeah, it’s a really powerful experience going to sea. And partly when you know get get out there with a group of women, you're all heading in the same direction, you're all standing nightwatch, you're driving the boat, you're cooking dinner, you're part of this team that's required to get to your destination. That alone puts you in a really interesting headspace. And then you might get seasick, and bonds heavily with your crew members around you. And then see this prick pretty shocking sight when we get to these gyres, and we call up trawl after trawl of microplastics onboard, and we analyze them. And it really starts to sink in.

CO: All right. Well, best of luck. Bon voyage. Emily, thank you.

EP: Thank you.

TA: Emily Penn is the founder of eXXpedition. That's eXXpedition with two Xs — for the two X chromosomes possessed by the skipper and each of her fellow crew members. All of whom are women. We reached Ms. Penn in Plymouth, England — shortly before her team's ship set sail. To see pictures of the eXXpedition crew in action, visit our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Latin]

FOA: NB wheelchair death

TA: In 2016, Steven Harel was crossing railroad tracks in Moncton, New Brunswick — when his motorized wheelchair got stuck. He was trapped. And when a freight train arrived, he was killed. Mr. Harel's family sued for negligence. Not just CN Rail, but the City of Moncton, the wheelchair manufacturer, and a medical equipment supplier. Today, that lawsuit was settled. But no details about compensation were released. Carol spoke with Mr. Harel's mother, Diane, after the Transportation Safety Board released a report about the death. Here's part of that conversation from February 2018, as Ms. Harel explains what happened to her son.

SOUNDCLIP

DH: Well, his wheelchair back wheels got stuck on the train tracks that wasn’t very well-maintained. So that's what happened: he got stuck, and he couldn't move his chair forward or backward. He was stuck. So we don't know how long he was there. But that's why we decided to go forward to push more for them to fix it because it's been a year and seven months, and there's not much that has been done.

CO: And the train was not able to stop as it came through?

DH: No, that's what they told us. They just saw light, like he had lights on his chair, and by the time they saw the light and they want it to stop, they couldn't.

CO: Just a horrible tragedy.

DH: It is. It is a horrible tragedy, and like we're still in contact with all of his friends — lots of his friends. And they keep telling us they still have a hard time going by the tracks, passing, and that's a daily thing for them; they live not far from the tracks. And so every single day, if they want to go out, they have to pass the track. Some of them still get stuck. Our main goal is to get the message out. You know after we lost our son, Stephen, but we don't want to lose anybody else, like some of his friends. We talk to his friends like weekly. Every time we talk to them, it's like everybody is scared, and everybody is like you know it's not fair for them. All they want to do is live their lives on a daily basis like everybody else. If they want pass the track to go to a doctor's appointment, or do their groceries, they want to be safe. So that's the message we want to send: make sure that everybody is safe to go by on that track. That's our main goal.

TA: That's Diane Harel, the mother of Steven Harel — who was killed when his wheelchair got stuck in the tracks at a freight train crossing. Ms. Harel was speaking with Carol in February of last year. Today, the family announced a settlement in the lawsuit Ms. Harel and her husband launched against CN Rail and the city of Moncton, as well as a wheelchair manufacturer and a medical equipment supplier.

[Music: Sombre piano]

Inuktut language

Guest: Natan Obed

TA: No matter what dialect of English is written — whether it's Australian, Scottish or Canadian — English readers can make sense of it. That's because we have a common way to write it down: the Roman alphabet. For Inuit though, that's not the case. Inuktut — the term for all Inuit dialects — is written in several different ways. But now, a common script has been developed for all of these dialects. Natan Obed is the president of the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatam. It’s an organization representing Inuit in Canada, which has officially adopted a new common written version of Inkuktut. We reached Mr. Obed in Ottawa.

CO: Mr. Obed, what problems were being caused by having all these different written dialects?

NATAN OBED: The biggest two challenges were in relation to education. There wasn't a clear way to provide Inuktut language curriculum or resources like books for our students across Inuit land. And then the second was that in any of our national publications, we were having to choose one written language system over all others. And therefore, only serving a portion of the Inuit community across Inuit land. This new [written version] attempts to create a foundation for more language resources in media and in curriculum in schools. And then also is more inclusive to all Inuit who wish to read and write in Inuktut.

CO: What alphabet is now used for the dialects of Inuktut?

NO: There are roughly 13 dialects of Inuktut spoken across Inuit land. Our languages comes from an oral tradition. And our written orthographies as we call them — or our writing systems — were introduced largely by missionaries or governments or commercial interests over the last 300 years. So there are systems where we use the alphabet like all Canadians do with English or French. And then we also have regions that use syllabics, which are symbols that describe consonant and vowel clusters.

CO: And certainly anyone who's visited Inuit communities and seen signage, there are usually… Well, as you point out, there are English and French signs. But the syllabic alphabet is for use on most public facilities, and even stop signs. So that's going to change now.

NO: This writing system is going to start as an auxiliary writing system, and in addition to the different writing systems that exist. We had particular challenges at the national level, and for accessibility for all Inuit. And so we were starting within the education system and within in the communications world of our national organization to roll out this new system. The syllabics will still be used in Nunavut and Nunavik. But over time, there may be ways in which to further adopt [this] as a way in which of serving the entirety of the Inuit community rather than portions of it.

CO: And what Alphabet will it use?

NO: We have gone through eight years of trying to figure out the best possible way to unify our writing system. And there were a lot of heated debates about whether it should be syllabics or Roman orthography. The Roman orthography was chosen based on the universal access to computers and to a keyboard, if you will, to write our language. Syllabics always required specific characters and specific software. Using Roman orthography — using the existing keyboard — will allow for us to have more universal access to these resources that we need to keep our language strong.

CO: What reaction have you had from Inuit about this?

NO: Many Inuit — especially younger Intuit — want more resources, want to keep our language strong in the face of Inuktut erosion, language shift, and the dominance of English within our society. So a common writing system that will allow for Inuit to understand each other in a much more universal way is something that people are excited about the prospect of. There are other Inuit who are concerned that this new writing system might supplant or take the place of regional writing systems. And therefore, then put at risk regional dialects. But we're at ITK have been very clear that that is not the intent of this. And regional dialects should not be at risk from a common orthography. Just like English is taught in K to 12 across this country, but if you were to put people in a room from St John's, Newfoundland, to Toronto, to Manitoba, there would be differences in the way that they would speak English. But they all went to school and learned in a common system. We're applying that same principle here with this new writing system.

CO: And how widespread do you think it will eventually be used? Do you think that governments like Nunavut’s will eventually adopt a new written script?

NO: I think that there is a time and place for this particular unified writing system. And we're going to start with using it in all of Inuit Tapiriit Kanatam’s publications. And we'll have it sit alongside an existing syllabic translation. So we are not expecting people to move directly into this writing system in a day [chuckle]. But we do hope that over time, there will be a utility for this system that will then create success, and then create ownership and excitement for adoption across Inuit lands where it's relevant, where it's needed. It's important to note that this is the first writing system that Inuit have adopted ourselves. So this is a great example of iInuit self-determination in the 21st century.

CO: All right. We will leave it there. Mr. Obed, thank you.

NO: Thanks for having me.

TA: Natan Obed is the president of the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatam — that’s an organization representing Inuit in Canada — which has officially adopted a new, common, written version of Inuktitut. We reached Mr. Obed in Ottawa.

[Music: Banjo]

FOA: Florida python

TA: In the news biz, if a story continues to develop long after it first broke, we say that story "has legs". And that's kind of true with this story — it's the latest development in a thirty-year saga. But it's also true that it has no legs at all because it's all about Burmese pythons in Florida. Just days ago, news broke that a female python caught in the Everglades has set a record for the second-largest ever captured in the state. She weighed in at 98 pounds 10 ounces. That's about 45 kilograms. And she measured 18-feet-four inches — just over five-and-a-half metres. But as I pointed out, Burmese pythons are nothing new in Florida. Back in 1992, a number escaped from a breeding facility when Hurricane Andrew swept through the state — seriously exacerbating a burgeoning python problem caused by pet owners releasing their snakes into the wild. And ever since, there have been plenty of python stories out of Florida — many of which we've covered on this show. Like this one from last year, when As it Happens guest host Susan Bonner spoke with Ian Bartoszek (BAR-toe-zeck). His team of hunters had just uncovered the largest den of Burmese pythons ever found in southern Florida and the western Everglades.

SOUNDCLIP

IAN BARTOSZEK: We track male Burmese pythons and they lead us to breeding females during the peak of the breeding season.

SB: So how exactly do you track the male?

IB: Well, first we have to capture a snake so we look for them and then we'll locate one during the month of October or November and we'll catch them. We will surgically implant a radio transmitter with our veterinarian partners and then that animal is let loose and we play the ultimate game of hide and seek tracking that animal around the landscape. And then they turn out to be the most effective female Burmese python detectors on the planet — a male Burmese python. And through some hard work in tracking we'll follow them through the woods until they lead us to a breeding female. And in this instance they led us —one of our snakes, we name our animals because we get attached to them after tracking them year after year — and our animal Argo was our VIP or Very Important Python this year. And around Valentine's Day, mid-February, he led us to a 100-pound, 45-kilo female that was hiding in an underground culvert pipe. And we removed her and then we let Argo go and three days later, and about a half a mile away, he led us to this breeding aggregation that had eight pythons, including Argo. So there were seven males total and one 115- pound 52-kilo female in this breeding aggregation. And to date that's the largest breeding aggregation we've seen in Southwest Florida.

SB: So describe what you saw when you came upon this gathering, this group?

IB: So we were following his signal and we’re traveling through the woods and we know that he's calling, the signals is beeping and so he's getting close. And when we walk in on him we didn't really expect to find anything because three days prior he was already with a large female, but we just saw Argo and then we saw another small python and another and another and as they were getting captured we were realizing that it was a male and another male python and an additional male python. And at that time of year, you know, exactly what that means. So we instantly were tuned to where is the female. And after catching seven males, including Argo and letting him go, we 30 minutes later found the female hiding under a thick grass. And that was very rewarding to find what all the pythons, including us, were looking for.

TA: From our archives, python tracker Ian Bartoszek speaking with Susan Bonner in April of last year.

[Music: Jazz]

Denver waving

TA: When you think about it, it's kind of amazing that we humans are able to communicate with each other at all, given the potential for misunderstanding. What I mean is, well, exactly what someone else meant — I'm pretty sure — when they said: "I know you believe you understand what you think I just said, but I am not sure you that what you hear is not what I meant." Face-to-face encounters are easier, sure. Because even a little distance makes a mountain of difference. So it shouldn't be surprising that a misunderstanding would develop when that mountain is an actual mountain face. Such as the one that occurred last week on Quandary Peak outside of Denver, Colorado. Rescuers were dispatched to the mountain's north ridge after a hiker reported seeing two men yelling and waving from afar. So up went several crews. Only to learn that the supposedly-distressed duo was in fact an exuberantly-friendly Canadian and his American buddy — simply waving. The rescue group later posted this firm-but-friendly message on Facebook, quote: "The learning point, if there is one, is that well, hey, we love friendly Canadians, or any other friendly hikers, just as much as the next guy. But it might be a good idea to make sure that your wave doesn't look like a distress signal." Unquote. Well rest assured, rescue guys, the rest of us Canadians hear you, loud and clear. I'm pretty sure.

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October 08, 2019 episode transcript

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