Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2019

The AIH Transcript for October 1, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Karen Gordon

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening. I'm Karen Gordon. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

KG: Tonight...

CO: Death's door. She said she fatally shot her black neighbour because she thought he was in her apartment but she was in his -- and today that former Dallas police officer was found guilty of murder.

KG: Over due diligence. University of Toronto students say new safety barriers in a building where two students recently killed themselves are too little too late and that the focus should be on mental health rather than physical.

CO: Axe of generosity. Andrew Scheer says he'll cut 25 percent of Canada's foreign aid budget if he's elected -- we checked the math with the Conservative's Foreign Affairs Minister in waiting.

KG: Number one with a bullet. For the first time in months of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong a police officer fired live ammunition at an 18-year-old demonstrator leaving him in serious condition.

CO: The arias of her expertise. The late, great Jessye Norman used her voice to command stage and to open doors -- as we'll hear from one of the many young black opera singers who followed in her footsteps.

KG: And junk shop. A pet store in St. John's is still hoping for the safe return of stolen merchandise after thieves made off with a fortune in pizzles -- which are dog treats. Which are dried bulls' penises. As It Happens. The Tuesday Edition. Radio that guesses it's an exclusive club of criminals: members only.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Lawyer for family of man killed by ex-Dallas police officer applauds guilty verdict

Dallas police conviction

Guests: Daryl K. Washington

KG: Last year a Dallas police officer walked into the home of Botham Jean and shot him dead. And in court today that officer, Amber Guyger, faced a jury and judge to learn her fate.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: The jury have reached a verdict. Ms. Guyger and your team would you please stand. We the jury unanimously find the defendant, Amber Guyger, guilty of murder as charged in the indictment. No outburst. And it is signed by the presiding juror who is juror number 11. You may be seated. Ms. Guyger.

KG: Ms. Guyger had argued that the shooting was a tragic mistake. She said she went into Mr. Jean's apartment by mistake, thinking it was her own -- and that she thought Mr. Jean was a burglar. After the guilty verdict, Dallas activist Dominique Alexander spoke to reporters outside the courtroom. Here's part of what he had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

DOMINIQUE ALEXANDER: I don't want to assume that -- speak on the behalf of this family. But as a community leader who has been fighting continuously towards police corruption in Dallas, I know I speak for our community who has labored, who has sat incarcerated, who has marched the streets, who has sacrificed so much for this movement, to the Dallas Nine, to all of the people who are here I want to say thank you. Because of your sacrifice this family is able to see some form of justice in Dallas, Texas, where many people at large in the community felt like it was hopeless. I'm so grateful to God that we see a guilty verdict. But the work is not done yet because one of the things that we saw in this trial with Amber Guyger is that Amber Guyger wasn't the only thing that stood trial. It was the Dallas Police Department. We saw corruption loud and clear. We saw the failures of the police department. We saw the failures of lack of policies, lack of accountability to the highest level. I thought at this time that we would be walking into DPD headquarters filing a complaint against the Dallas Police Association president Michael Mata. But we got something so great.

KG: That was activist Dominique Alexander speaking in Dallas after a white former police officer was found guilty of murdering a black man in his home last year. Daryl K. Washington is a lawyer for the family of Botham Jean. We reached him in Dallas.

CO: Mr. Washington what was it like for Mr. Jean's family to hear this guilty verdict today?

DARYL K. WASHINGTON: Oh it was an amazing relief to have this guilty verdict read because as you know often in this country police officers have this huge halo above their head. So to get a guilty verdict against this officer meant a whole lot to this family.

CO: And there is also that she was a white police officer and the victim Mr. Jean was black.

DARYL K. WASHINGTON: Exactly. So it speak to the great job that this jury did.

CO: Can you describe how people in the courtroom reacted when that verdict was read out?

DARYL K. WASHINGTON: Very excited. Again, people are under the belief that no one was going to give this family a fair opportunity.

CO: Was it fairly emotional in the courtroom today when this verdict was read?

DARYL K. WASHINGTON: Extremely emotional and it is still very emotional. I mean it hasn't sunk in yet. And as you know we're about to go to the sentencing phase. So we have gone over the first hurdle. So we understand now that we have another hurdle to cross.

CO: We're talking about a case where this woman Amber Guyger -- her defense was that it was a series of mistakes that led to this tragedy, that she was just in the wrong apartment, she got into the wrong place thinking it was her place, thinks she's seeing an intruder and shot him. Do you have any sympathy for that story?

DARYL K. WASHINGTON: Absolutely none at all. This is a trained police officer. They talked about how confusing this apartment complex is. If this apartment complex was just that confusing then we know that she should have been looking to make sure that she was in the proper apartment so that excuse that she gave was just not acceptable. She also talked about that she heard noise outside of the door before she actually went in. We know that the training officers are taught to cover and conceal and she didn't do any of that. So there was just no reason for Botham to have lost his life.

CO: The defense also argued that the shooting -- whether it was wrong or right -- it was in self-defense. She thought she was just defending herself. What did you argue to refute that?

DARYL K. WASHINGTON: There was absolutely no testimony that Botham did anything threatening. She didn't say that Botham pointed anything at her. We know now that Botham had shorts on that didn't have pockets so she couldn't say that he was reaching in his pocket and she thought he had a gun. None of that. She just simply said that Botham walked towards her and that was it. She didn't say anything threatening. So there was just no justification to use self-defense. Unfortunate I'm going to have to get off the phone right now. We're about to go in right now for the sentencing.

CO: All right. We'll talk to you later. Thank you.

DARYL K. WASHINGTON: Thank you.

KG: Daryl K. Washington is a lawyer for the family of Botham Jean who was murdered in his home last year by a Dallas police officer. As of airtime, the court is still deliberating on the sentence for the officer Amber Guyger.

[Music]

Conservative foreign aid

Guest: Erin O’Toole

KG: Andrew Scheer says that if elected he would cut Canada's foreign aid spending by a quarter. At an event in Toronto the Conservative leader said he could save 1.5 billion dollars by cutting off funding that he says is going to, quote, "middle and upper income country as well as hostile regimes."

SOUNDCLIP

ANDREW SCHEER: This is a very clear choice this election between Justin Trudeau's record on foreign policy and on foreign aid. And Canadians now can see the choice between sending more of their hard earned tax dollars to countries that rank relatively high on the development and next countries like Italy, like Brazil, like Turkey, and hostile governments like Iran. Justin Trudeau has made his choice. I have made my choice. We'll redirect that money here at home to help Canadians get ahead.

REPORTER: Canada is currently in a campaign for a seat on the United Nations Security Council. What impact do you see as substantial cuts in the foreign assistance budget having on Canada's bid?

ANDREW SCHEER: Well our allies around the world know our capabilities when it comes to pulling our weight on the world stage and the commitment that we've made in many conflicts over the past 150 plus years. So I'm confident that our allies will see that. But it's more important to me that I help Canadians get ahead than curry favour at the United Nations. I am more interested in making sure that hardworking Canadian families get ahead, that they have more in their pockets, that they're able to provide for their families, raise their children, and achieve their goals. That is our priority. That is our focus.

KG: That was Conservative leader Andrew Scheer in Toronto this morning. Erin O'Toole is the Conservative candidate in the Ontario riding of Durham. We reached him in Bowmanville, Ontario.

CO: Mr. O'Toole why would Andrew Scheer want to make Canada 25 percent less generous than it is today?

ERIN O'TOOLE: Well I think it's about balance and choices. We are repurposing some of our foreign aid to focus it at developing countries -- not countries in the moderate to high level on the development index. We're taking it away from some hostile regimes where there's still some small amounts of money being spent. But I think we're also looking at these are difficult times -- there's seniors, there's families living with disability, there's a range of things that we want to fund and making tough choices is sometimes part of government. So we are drawing down the amount that's going out -- going down to levels that would be similar to what was in the early 2000s. But I think the exercise people will see is the development money will be focused where it's really needed most and not to some countries that I think a lot of Canadians would find probably don't need development assistance from Canada.

CO: Right. So you say 1.5 billion going to be taken out from countries...what countries are you talking about? Where would you get that money?

ERIN O'TOOLE: Well we've looked at the development index scale that the United Nations used itself. So countries as was mentioned -- countries like Brazil, Italy, Argentina will no longer receive aid. There was even some unusual ones like Italy and some others. So we're taking it out of that envelope and we'll probably be providing more to some countries in sub-Saharan Africa and other places that are lower in the development index scale. And we are making an overall reduction in the budget because we are prioritizing on a few domestic areas where we feel attention's needed. We're hearing loud and clear from Canadians that there's a number of acute needs that need to be funded.

CO: Okay. The countries you named as being the places -- and I'm sure there's more. But Italy -- okay, 2 million dollars from Italy. You mentioned Iran, 2.5 million. Turkey, 4.5. Brazil, 4.3. Argentina, 2.2 million. And we're just looking at this handy dashboard that the government has on its website and it tells you these amounts. So Venezuela 1.6. I'm just not seeing how this adds up to 1.5 billion dollars though.

ERIN O'TOOLE: Well it's first off a philosophical change. I think this should have been done years ago Carol where you actually used the development index that U.N. confirms each year and we're using the point six measure as the inflection point where you go from a low development score to a moderate to high. So using that it's about fairness -- countries that are moderate to the highly developed will not qualify for Canadian aid assistance. And 700 million dollars the budget is being reallocated to countries on the lower end of the scale. And we are reducing the overall budget.

CO: Okay I appreciate that. But you didn't announce a philosophy today -- you announced an amount of money, a percentage. You were very specific about that which is important, isn't it? So 1.5 billion dollars coming out of the foreign aid budget and going into the pockets of Canadians. I'm trying to figure out where that money comes from because even if you do your index I mean you have to go well into Africa before you are going to be able to get 1.5 billion dollars. You are going to have to cut into some programs. I would imagine some countries they're very dependent on our aid. So how do you get the 1.5 billion?

ERIN O'TOOLE: The 1.5 billion -- there will be a reduction. And then of the remaining amount in the development aid assistance budget, countries that are ranking above that point six level on the scale will be phased out. And countries that are on the lower end of the scale may receive more from the existing funds in the envelope. So it is a reduction Carol on one side and then there's a reallocation based, really, on aid for the remaining funds, so when that is all taken in total that's where the overall number comes from, and it really be countries that in the future will not be receiving specific aid. We're actually not ending grant programs. We're not changing funding organizations that are operating in specific countries provided that country is on the below point six level they will still receive all of their funding with the partner organizations in many cases. In some cases they'll receive more.

CO: Right. We'll stay on this for a bit because 1.5 billion dollars going into the pockets of Canadians from that pot of money that goes out to other countries -- and you say countries, not programs, these are actually countries. The countries you mentioned it's small change compared to that. Even the 700 million that's reallocated from the remaining 4.5 billion, right? That 1.5 billion, is it coming back to Canada or is that being 700 million of that being reallocated?

ERIN O'TOOLE: The reallocation comes from what's remaining. You're right.

CO: The 4.5 billion.

ERIN O'TOOLE: Right.

CO: So we still have that 1.5 billion that I don't know where you get that from because the countries you've mentioned -- the biggest recipients of our aid include countries like Haiti -- I'm sure you don't want to take Haiti's money away --Afghanistan -- where we've lost lives in Afghanistan, we sure want to help those people...254 million dollars. So I just am trying to add up for you here from what you said what gets you to 1.5 billion. I still can't find it.

ERIN O'TOOLE: I'm glad we're going through this. And I think Canadians will appreciate an approach that actually says, "Where are the countries that need?" In fact Haiti and Afghanistan from what I understand will still both qualify and actually potentially go up because of how they're assessed on the development index. There are other programs like some of the infrastructure investments made through to the China Asia Infrastructure Bank that will also be eliminated. So I think there's not only a new approach on how countries are being selected, there is an overall drop in the budget.

CO: Just to be clear -- I'm sorry to be dense about this but I'm trying to make sense of it. So is it possible then it's going to have to be that countries -- the Human Development Index you're pointing to, that's your benchmark for who we should be giving aid to -- are you going to have to go below that index in order to come up with your 1.5 billion dollars? Or do you think you really get 1.5 billion dollars entirely from these countries you say are in the middle and upper income?

ERIN O'TOOLE: Our review shows that we can get it. There are some specific envelopes within Global Affairs Canada and the development side Carol that we don't have specific detail on because we can't as an opposition party get that type of granular data. We're using that point six measure as the goal post. And you know countries above that I think a lot of Canadians would be surprised even small amounts going to countries like Italy, Brazil, Russia -- it may be small amounts but in recent years the BRIC countries people have been seeing tremendous growth in some of these countries -- they'd been wondering why Canada's spending development aid there. So this is going to be I think an exercise that probably should have been done years ago using the U.N.'s own scale to assess what countries are at greatest need.

CO: We will leave it there. Mr. O'Toole thank you.

ERIN O'TOOLE: Thank you.

KG: Erin O'Toole is a Conservative candidate. We reached him in Bowmanville, Ontario.

[Music]

Dried bull penis thefts

Guest: Mark Winsor

KG: On Facebook, the St. John's store 'Pet Zone' has posted grainy photographs of the suspects. The caption reads, quote, "Do you know these people? We have video surveillance of them grabbing as many penises as they can and taking off." Yes, the suspects just strolled into Pet Zone and grabbed a handful after handful of penises. To be more specific, dehydrated bull penises also known as pizzles. Mark Winsor is the owner of Pet Zone in St. John's. We reached him there.

CO: Mark before we get to the theft -- if we could just clear something up, why does your pet store sell penises?

MARK WINSOR: Well it's a popular item -- I guess it's because it's digestible and they don't chard, they don't chip. It's just easier for a dog to chew on. You know years ago it was the old -- I don't if everyone remembers -- but it was the old rawhide. You know the bleached white and brown rawhide which made it much more difficult to digest, you know. And the taste -- not to sound gross or nothing -- but the taste is much more flavorful for dogs.

CO: What do you think it tastes like?

MW: I never tried one. [Laughs] I never tried one but they are popular and dogs do love them.

CO: Okay. Now I'm looking at a picture. They're big, aren't they? I mean well at least they're long. Do you want to describe these things?

MW: Well you know like they do come in different sizes. You know they do that you know for marketing and also they do it because of the size of the animal I guess -- you know you choose the size for your liking.

CO: And yeah you'd think that bulls do come in different sizes, right, I guess their penises do too.

MW: Well you know what they actually do, it is a bull penis, so what they do is they actually take it and they dehydrate it. So like any of the animal they don't waste nothing. You know there's the ears. You know you can get their ears too. You can get the nasal -- like the nose. And you can get the kneecaps. And you can also get like their nails. There's manufacturers that buy a lot of this up and they sell it to stores like my own.

CO: Let's get to what happened at Pet Zone -- your store. When did you realize that you had been robbed?

MW: It was just Saturday past around 5:00 pm -- we got a call. We're still mind boggled until this day. I mean we're still mind boggling because it's funny because it was a man and a woman that you know done the theft and they took handfuls -- I mean we do have you know surveillance so you can see them take the handfuls of well pizzles/penis and they try to put it up their shirt or you know wherever they tried to put it but they took so much of it in their hands, they just walked out like it was a normal shopping day.

CO: Pizzle of course is the name -- you don't call them penises in the stores. So they were shoving these things -- these bull penises -- into their clothes?

MW: Up into their clothes. Yes that's correct.

CO: And how many did they walk out with?

MW: They walked out with hundreds of dollars worth -- believe it or not. Because how it goes with the pizzle is the longer you buy one the more it cost. And you know the shorter well it doesn't cost as much.

CO: So people like the long ones.

MW: It's all based on preference with the of size dog. You know if you have a big dog well then you can go with a longer one. So again what happens with the pizzle is where it is dehydrated you know the animal starts from the tip and then they just keep on chewing down till there's nothing left.

CO: What's the longest pizzle you've had?

MW: About four feet long.

CO: Good heavens.

MW: Yeah. Right from four feet to four inches. [Laughter]

CO: And so in a dog this works that thing until it's gone I guess.

MW: Yeah. And again it's much more safe. Again you don't have to worry about any splintering, it doesn't cause any blockages.

CO: Right. So how do you think that thieves could unload stolen bull penises?

MW: You know like so many things came to my mind: maybe they were going to resell them somewhere -- the black market did cross my mind. Unless the couple really loved their animals.

CO: [Laughter] Okay. So they may have been stealing them for their pets. Okay. That's a possibility. But what's the value? Is there a dollar amount you can put these in?

MW: Yeah. Say if we sold say a 3-foot one they are about 24 dollars for a 3-foot one.

CO: Okay. So what do you think the street value of the bull penis is?

MW: The street value?

CO: Yeah.

MW: You probably get them for 15 dollars each. Maybe more. You know the pizzle is a very high end item. And again it's the market because they're so popular -- it's the market I guess that drives them up because they're in high demand. When the thieves left with their pizzles from our location here in. St. John's and they actually went afterwards they went to our sister store -- believe it or not -- right after...

CO: For more pizzles?

MW: We don't know. We went through the surveillance and what had happened was at our sister store right away we got a call. Our supervisor here was you know just on the radar to look, to see, you know just to make sure everything's up all right in the store. And when she went to the store she noticed that the thieves were in our other store.

CO: Do you think you might -- in the future -- have to get some kind of a case, like lock up your pizzles so they don't get stolen?

MW: Well you know it's funny you know not to sound crude on the phone but you know people like to see things and people like to touch. You know that's the way it is you know. You know it's like when people go and they go to a grocery store you know people like to look at their fruits. And when people come into our store you know they look. They like to look at all these different type of parts that we sell. You know to lock them up you know it is something that I wouldn't agree with.

CO: Well Mark I hope you find out. It sounds like this crazy thing out there -- people stealing these things. Well maybe the police will figure it out.

MW: I hope so. I hope so.

CO: Mark thanks.

MW: Thanks so much.

KG: Mark Winsor is the owner of Pet Zone in St. John's. We reached him there. To see what dehydrated bull penises or pizzles look like go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Jerry Seinfeld

KG: In 2016 Forbes magazine estimated that Jerry Seinfeld's net worth was about 670 million dollars. A good chunk of which came from a Netflix deal including the rights to the program "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee." In case you're unfamiliar with the show what happens is comedians get in cars and then get coffee. You probably got that from the title which sketches out the premise in just five words -- less than half the words required to say the title of another show: "Two Stupid Guys in a Stupid Car Driving to a Stupid Town." That show was never made. But it's the one Christian Charles pitched to Jerry Seinfeld back in 2002. The two had been working together and Mr. Charles felt a show in which Mr. Seinfeld went on a road trip with a friend could work. Mr. Seinfeld agreed. By 2011 it had morphed into Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee which Christian Charles worked on until the two men had a falling out over how much credit and money he would get for his role in the show. He sued claiming the comedian had stolen his idea. But yesterday that lawsuit was dismissed because Mr. Charles had waited too long to make his case. Also because he'd accepted just over one hundred thousand bucks from Mr. Seinfeld while working for him which meant he'd forfeited his claim to more. Now look, just because Jerry Seinfeld is worth nearly a billion dollars doesn't mean he has to just hand everyone fistfuls of dough. But I mean he uses a different one of his own cars in every episode each one of which is worth more than Christian Charles got paid for his work. But when you team up with a guy with several dozen expensive sports cars -- well, them's the brakes.

[Music]

Part 2: U. of T. suicides

U. of T. suicides

Guest: Alex Forgay

KG: University of Toronto president Meric Gertler says he wishes the school had set up safety barriers in a campus building sooner. The university is doing so now in the wake of a student death on Friday in the Bahen Centre for Information Technology. Students, and a union representing university staff, are calling the death a suicide. Three other students have taken their own lives on campus in the last 18 months including two who killed themselves in the Bahen Centre. Alex Forgay is a third-year geography student at the University of Toronto who lost a friend to suicide on campus earlier this year. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Alex it must be very difficult for you to see another U of T student die of suicide on campus.

ALEX FORGAY: Yes it is. I think everyone on campus has been touched by it in some way over the last couple of years and it's certainly heartbreaking to see the school have to go through it again.

CO: You have your own experience that must have been touched by this. Are you comfortable sharing?

AF: Yeah. So late January a good friend of mine took her own life on campus. She was the first of the three that have occurred this year on U of T campus, and one of four in the last year -- in the last calender year. And so I actually left school for the last semester of last year to sort of recover from that. And two weeks back into school this year when this incident occurred. So it's certainly hard to have to see people go through pain that seems all too familiar for me and some of my close friends.

CO: What effect does it have on the community of the students when there's a death of this nature?

AF: I think it's sort of twofold. The first effected that it has is just shock and pain. Across social media be it Facebook, Twitter, Instagram a lot of people were sort of taking to express their shock and express their outrage in a way as well and just the hurt that it feels to have to go through this and know that someone lost their life on campus and in such a way. And then for people who have gone through such experiences before, it hits on a different level -- it's something more personal and it brings back memories of the pain from before. But then on the other hand I think it also brings the community together. I think a lot of people reach out to each other, support each other, and that's been nice to see. It's just too bad that it takes something like this to make that happen.

CO: The university says it's going to install -- is now installing -- these temporary safety barriers in the building where Friday's death occurred. But that's something you and the other students have been demanding for some time. What exactly would those barriers do?

AF: Since the first death occurred at the Bahen Centre last year, people have been asking for some preventative measures. The Bahen Centre is a building in sort of a centre of campus that has the computer science program which is one of the most high stress and high demanding programs for students. And it has a large indoor courtyard in the middle with five-storey high balconies with very low railings. And that's where these three deaths have occurred. I think both in terms of preventative to discourage people from taking their lives and then if they do choose to go that step of hopefully saving some students would be the objective. And as much as it's good to see the university taking this action now, it's frustrating to know that it took three lives to get there when people on campus have been asking for it since before the first life was lost.

CO: So why did it take so long?

AF: I'm not sure. The president of the university said in a statement over the weekend I believe that they were looking at sort of long-term architectural strategies and they have been looking at that for some time. But they said that they will attempt to construct temporary barriers right away so I don't think anyone in the student body is quite sure or satisfied with that explanation -- that if temporary barriers can be constructed now why they weren't after the first death or after the second death or at any of the time that was in between.

CO: Of course there is the issue that you can prevent, put up barriers, but you still have people who are in some ways struggling with mental health issues. And the university says it's going to expand counselling services and increase police presence. How much do you think that will accomplish?

AF: I think there's, for some part, there is sort of an attitude of that we will believe it when we see -- among the student body. It's something that's been promised for a long time and yet still students are faced with long waitlists or caps on the amount of time they're allowed to use counselling services per year. U of T still doesn't have a 24-hour student support line. So after-hours if students are in crisis on the university they have to turn to resources outside of the university. And compared to a lot of other universities in the province, in the country, the per capita amount of mental health support at U of T is dramatically lower -- especially considering that U of T is a very high pressure environment, I think a lot of people are looking for more of those opportunities and are sort of frustrated with them being unable to do that. It's certainly a good sign that the university is willing to move in that direction but I think people have been waiting for a long time and they are frustrated. And just promises of more action aren't necessarily satisfying the appetite for change.

CO: You mentioned that this is the computer science building. And that computer science is where there's tremendous pressure. But for all students, all university students, it's a pressure cooker, isn't it? You've just got so many things you have to deal with. There's a culture of this that you're supposed to feel pressure, you're supposed to have not slept all night, and have eaten poorly, and have denied yourself all kinds of creature comforts. Do you think that that's part of the problem?

AF: I absolutely think so and I think that that problem is heightened at the University of Toronto specifically. It's sort of something that you're sort of implicitly taught since the moment you arrive especially in first year most students have been -- it is their first year at university and they're faced with classes of 1200-1300 people, it's difficult for them to access support. And then when they try to, often, they're faced with really long waitlists. And with a lot of students in a lot of programs especially computer science they have to keep up very high grades in order to stay in their program so that adds a whole other level of pressure. And there's sort of a burnout effect that comes from that. And I think for some people that pressure can be too much and whether that results in leaving school for a period of time as I did last year and as I know many of my colleagues at U of T have done or ultimately taking their own life. There's a lot of ways that pressure can manifest itself but it's certainly not healthy.

CO: And they are so young, aren't they? 17-18 years old. Do you think there's more that can be done to support them especially the first year students?

AF: Absolutely. I think that the transition period is really hard for a lot of people to go when you're 17 and you're too young to vote, too young to drink, to go into these environments oftentimes alone away from home and be faced with these tremendous pressures, deadlines, exams, et cetera. And the expectation to have to deal with that all on your own when you're still in your formative years is unreasonable and overwhelming for I think a lot of the student population.

CO: Alex I really appreciate you'd speak with us. Thank you.

AF: Absolutely. Thank you Carol.

KG: Alex Forgay is a third-year geography student at the University of Toronto. If you believe you or someone you know may be at risk of suicide you can call the Canada Suicide Prevention Service: 1-833-456-4566. Again, that's: 1-833-456-4566.

[Music]

Justin Trudeau

KG: The people standing behind a politician at a press conference -- the backdrop, so to speak -- are usually a trusty, supportive bunch. And while the eight mayors flanking Liberal leader Justin Trudeau today were polite, they weren't exactly supportive. In Richmond Hill, Ontario, Mr. Trudeau unveiled his party's gun control plan which included giving municipalities the choice to impose a ban on handguns. But the mayors at today's event all serving the Greater Toronto Area want Mr. Trudeau to go further with a national handgun ban. Here's the Liberal leader speaking at the event today followed by a question from CBC's Katie Simpson.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: One of the things we've heard clearly from the mayors here and indeed mayors right across the country is a desire to move forward on restrict and ban handguns within their communities. We recognize as I said that the GTA has over 5-million people who could live in municipalities where handguns are flat-out banned. This is something that will make a significant difference in moving forward on gun control in this country. And the choice in this election couldn't be clearer. Liberals want to strengthen gun control and Conservatives want to weaken gun control. That is the choice facing Canadians on October 21st.

REPORTER: I'm going to note that you did not specifically answer my question. But I am wondering if I can get a show of hands from the mayors here -- I don't know what the answer is from you guys, but we heard it from the medical professionals who are on the frontlines yesterday that a national ban would be something that they would be in favor of because as one of the doctors pointed out you could cross from one city to another to pick up a handgun. Could I get a show of hands here from mayors who would like a national ban?

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: I can tell you I heard clearly from them that many of them want us to bring a national ban. Yes.

REPORTER: So if you take a look behind you all those people are saying national ban. You heard it from the medical professionals, so why not go that route?

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: We are taking the strongest step in Canadian history to move forward on tougher gun legislation. We are moving forward on a full-out ban on assault weapons and we're moving forward to empower municipalities across this country, cities big and small, to ban handguns within their districts -- within their municipalities. This is a significant step forward. And the choice in this election is do we move forward on strengthening gun control with the Liberals or do we go with the Conservatives who want to weaken gun control? That is the choice Canadians are facing.

KG: That was Liberal leader Justin Trudeau reacting to a unanimous show of hands from Ontario mayors on a national handgun ban and responding to a question from CBC reporter Katie Simpson.

[Music]

Jessye Norman obit

Guest: Laquita Mitchell

KG: Jessye Norman contributed her unforgettable voice to opera and to a great many social causes. And in both capacities, it was a formidable one. Jessye Norman, one of the great American sopranos, has died. She was 74-years-old. Earlier this year she became the first woman to receive the 100,000 dollar Glenn Gould Prize, presented for exceptional artistic and humanitarian achievement. When she was in Toronto accepting that award she spoke with the CBC's Eleanor Wachtel about her childhood in the American south -- and about how her parents helped make it very different than it might have been.

SOUNDCLIP

JESSYE NORMAN: My father would somehow arrange his day -- my father was the manager of an insurance company -- he would somehow arrange his day to drive me wherever I had to sing, and I was singing all the time I promise you. I sang more as a child than I did as a professional. They didn't have to pay me you see.[Laughter] But I was singing for the opening of a grocery store, for the opening of recreation centers [laughter] True! I promise you. I sang for the opening of a grocery store. And also, it was a very big grocery store. But it was that kind of experience growing up as a child that made it possible for me to have an interesting and happy life growing up in a situation that could have made me feel very differently about myself and very differently about my place in the world. And I think I'm just a lucky break.

ELEANOR WACHTEL: But you must have been aware growing up in the Deep South in the 1950s and 60s -- you were surrounded by signs of segregation.

JESSYE NORMAN: Absolutely. There were water fountains -- one would say "coloured" and the next one would say "white." And because at age five or six. I simply didn't understand what the nonsense was about I was to go to the "white" fountain and turn on the water and I'd go to the "colour" and turn on the water. And I would say to my mother -- since she did know -- "But they are the same."

KG: That's opera diva Jessye Norman speaking with Eleanor Wachtel on "Writers and Company" earlier this year. Ms. Norman died yesterday. Laquita Mitchell is a soprano who has followed in Ms. Norman's footsteps for much of her career. We reached her in New York City.

CO: Laquita when you hear Jessye Norman -- her voice, her humor -- in that clip, what comes to mind for you?

LAQUITA MITCHELL: Well I think the first thing that comes to mind is yeah that's Ms. Norman. That's her. A way to find a bit of wit and brevity in such a tough situation. That's exactly who she was. Always a twinkle in her eye. That's the curious artists that she obviously grew up to be. That sounds about right.

CO: Now your own encounters with Ms. Norman -- I understand she may have been one of the first to get you interested in opera. What's the story there?

LM: The story is at the age of 14 I met Ms. Norman. I was a freshman and I was cutting class -- I must admit [chuckles]. And the head of my voice department says to me, Laquita how would you like to meet Jessye Norman? I was like sure...who is he? And he says okay you'll be meeting Jessye Norman tomorrow, she is probably the greatest voice I've ever heard and you'll have the opportunity to meet her tomorrow. And that very next day was when I met Ms. Norman along with about 18 other girls. We were part of a national Take Your Daughters to Work Day. We were taken to the Metropolitan Opera House with Ms. Norman and chaperones and we met every woman that happened to be in-charge of a major department: wigs, makeup, milliners. It was fantastic. And we spent the day at the Met. And I asked tons of questions. She recognized that and she asked if I'd like to attend an opera. And I said absolutely...sure, when? She said this evening. I said okay. And my first opera was Richard Wagner's "Die Walkure." [Laughs]

CO: And you heard of course Jessye Norman sing.

LM: Yeah. I think everyone heard Ms. Norman sing. I mean all of 66 Street heard Ms. Norman sing. And we all marveled. And you know as a child we are really impressionable and when she entered stage I saw for the first time someone who looked like me on a huge-huge-huge stage and I thought that wow well if that's a possibility for her maybe I might give this classical music thing a chance. Who knows? And so that's how it sort of started for me.

CO: Because you could see an African-American woman who could hold that stage and sing Wagner. And of course, the voice. The voice is just absolutely extraordinary -- everyone talks about it.

LM: The extraordinary sound, the cavernous sound, just incredible impeccable diction and an attention paid to the text. It's something that has lived with me I guess you know since then -- since I was 14-years-old. That sound of her voice has been the thing that I know that is finite that is able to enter -- to get to me, to get to my heart when I hear her sing.

CO: We heard in that clip when she was speaking with Eleanor Wachtel she makes light of the segregated south. But she's amusing in that anecdote. She was in the middle of that, wasn't she, in Augusta, Georgia. She grew up in segregated -- the American south. What effect do you think that had on her?

LM: I believe that effect -- that racism and segregation -- had upon most people of colour living in the south was a thought that they had to make away. They had to make sure that they brought respect to their parents names who worked incredibly hard so that their children can have maybe a shot, you know? Everything that they knew from church, from Sunday choir school, from after-school, everything was done and taught by the people that looked like them. So when they left that circle they knew that they were carrying with them a heavy sort of thing. They knew that they had to be great. So that perseverance that she had obviously, that determination that she had, I believe came from that knowledge.

CO: You mentioned what an inspiration she was for you -- to see an African-American woman on that stage -- but she had her own people who she aspired to (be) like: Marian Anderson and Dorothy Maynor. She saw those singers who said 'ah I can do this.' But I guess what people have mentioned that what Jessye Norman opened up was the range of roles that an African-American singer soprano could play. It wasn't just going to be Porgy and Bess, it was going to be Wagner as well. And that's what's one of the many legacies she left.

LM: Absolutely. I'm just grateful that the people that surrounded her at that time saw fit to allow her to explore the range -- the vocal range -- of the literature.

CO: And she -- as you say, there's so many recordings, so many different kinds of music. Everything from John Cage to Berlioz. But one of her legacies is that she was very dedicated to education -- arts education -- which is a huge part of her mission and she founded a school. I think you've been there, have you not?

LM: Yes. I've been to this school. It's a fabulous school. This is after-school kids and it is completely free. And these children are allowed the opportunity to have classes in art work, and oil painting, dance, choir, you know poetry, and spoken word. You know Ms. Norman was an avid reader and an avid lover of prose -- of words. It's a lively lively place. And I know that she would want nothing more than people to remember her by remembering her school which is named after her -- the Jessye Norman School for the Arts.

CO: Laquita thank you so much for telling us about this wonderful woman.

LM: Thank you all so much. And I hope you all have a wonderful evening.

KG: Laquita Mitchell is a soprano -- and a mentee and friend of Jessye Norman's. She's in New York City. Jessye Norman died yesterday. She was 74-years-old.

[Music]

Part 3: Hong Kong student describes scene after first shooting of protester by police

Hong Kong protester shot

Guest: Ken Lui

KG: For Beijing it was supposed to be a day of national unity -- a day to mark 70 years of communist rule in China. Instead Hong Kong and its police force are facing questions after an officer shot an 18-year-old male. It's the first time police have fired live rounds at protesters. The teenager, who was taken to hospital and survived, was taking part in demonstrations in Tsuen Wan district of north Hong Kong. According to police, the officer who shot him was acting in self-defense. Ken Lui is a university student and journalist. He was nearby when the shooting happened. We reached Mr. Lui in Hong Kong.

CO: Ken can you describe the atmosphere before this shooting took place?

KEN LUI: I think the atmosphere before the shooting was just like Hong Kongers are ready for a big battle. And they think that in this special occasion -- the anniversary of the establishment of the PRC -- is kind of a great occasion to have a big fight with the regime.

CO: Right. You're talking about the 70th anniversary of the People's Republic of China. And so in Tsuen Wan before this shooting began, can you describe what was happening?

KL: The atmosphere is quite intense. And throughout, police, they're shooting tons of tear gas and rubber bullets. And the protesters they also tried to attack the riot police. The riot police are retrieving -- they had fallen back. But however the protesters tried to chase those riot police and the protesters had beaten up a riot police and that riot police fell on the ground. And then I heard a very loud noise and I thought that was a real pistol shooting.

CO: Okay. So what you saw was that as the riot police were pulling back from the protesters they were going after them. And their weapons include -- they have some sticks and rods. And they were pursuing the police. One policeman was down on the ground.

KL: Yes. Yes.

CO: And then you heard the shooting.

KL: Yes.

CO: Did you see who was shot?

KL: I didn't really saw at the moment of firing the pistol but I saw a policeman holding a pistol -- facing the protesters.

CO: And so that 18-year-old young man who was shot -- he is in serious condition in hospital. What did police do after that man was shot?

KL: The police at first they tried to arrest other protesters trying to help the injured boy. And the next thing they tried to do is to disperse the protesters not letting them to attack the riot police anymore. And I saw -- I remember -- one police trying to rescue or trying to help the injured boy.

CO: And so there is video -- a campus video -- that has not been independently verified but there is a close up picture of this shooting -- what appears to be the shooting. The police officer turning to this young man who has a stick or a rod in his hand and the police officer shoots into his chest. Have you seen that video?

KL: Yeah. Campus TV one, right?

CO: Yes. Was that the same incident that you saw?

KL: Yeah -- it is that one.

CO: How did people react? This is the first time police have used live rounds shot directly at protesters. How were people responding to that?

KL: Yeah some protesters returned to that place and some protesters trying to blame the police -- why you have done so? And do you know that you are killing our people? And one police officer is quite frightened and he told the protesters that they have already called the ambulance and please don't attack us -- we will protect the injured boy properly. I think he's a bit nervous I guess. And he's trying to calm down the other protesters.

CO: And police are saying now that they reacted in self-defense when they shot the young man. What do you say to that?

KL: I think this is groundless. They have different choices of weapons such as pepper spray or the baton to disperse the protesters. And I don't see any grounds for using a real pistol so yeah this is excessive use of force.

CO: Hong Kong hospital authorities say that there are 51 people injured. Two men are in critical condition. They haven't given updates on the young man that we are speaking of here. But there are other reports that this was not the only live round shot by police. There were several different places where they used real bullets. Is it any sense that the police have changed their tactics?

KL: I guess so because we seldom see the police using the pistol in the past occassions but for this day they used for six rounds and this is quite a huge amount of increase.

CO: And also I understand that in the past they were warning shots that they fired -- they didn't fire into the crowd or the protesters. Is that correct?

KL: Yes.

CO: What are you thinking -- you've been following this for months now -- what are your thoughts right now as to what you witnessed and what it might say about where this protest is now going?

KL: The government is just trying to push the situation to be more intense and they are not going to solve the problem. I think they are just trying to arrest and arrest more and more people. But I think the protesters that they will use more radical tactics to handle or to deal with the riot police. And I think the situation is quite grave. I would say quite grave.

CO: So you think the violence will escalate. Well do you think that protesters will fear the possibility of being shot with live bullets -- that fewer of them will go out in the street?

KL: I don't really think so because the anger has covered this kind of fear.

CO: Ken I appreciate you speaking with us tonight. I know this has been a very stressful and confusing day for many people but thank you for telling us what you saw.

KL: Yeah. Thank you very much.

KG: Ken Lui is a university student journalist. We reached him in Hong Kong. You can find more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Stephen Harper

KG: Boris Johnson got some backup today and it came courtesy of a former Canadian Prime Minister. Stephen Harper was in Manchester for an event at the UK's Conservative Party conference. The former PM was on stage with former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott. They were both asked about the recent UK Supreme Court decision which overrode Prime Minister Johnson's attempt to use propagation powers to shut down parliament in the middle of the Brexit crisis. Mr. Abbott didn't take the bait but Stephen Harper came to the defence of both prorogation and Boris Johnson.

SOUNDCLIP

STEPHEN HARPER: Unlike my colleague here I do want to reflect on the decision of the Supreme Court. I read the Supreme Court judgement. It was very well written. It was a very well written act of sophistry. First of all just on my history I had two controversial prorogations -- the second shouldn't have been because it was routine. The first one I prorogued I think for slightly longer than Boris Johnson had proposed. It was five to six weeks. It was to give the opposition an opportunity to reflect on a course of action they were going to take that was unquestionably would do serious short and long term damage to the Canadian federation. Not only did they get the feedback from the Canadian public on that as a consequence they replaced the leader who had taken them down that course of action. So prorogation is a tool for limited purposes but it is unquestionably a prerogative of a prime minister to advise the Queen on essentially a short term action with parliament and unquestionably the prerogative of the Queen to grant it. And all I can tell you from our own experience is you have got to nip in the bud before it gets bad. Judges deciding that they are not there to adjudicate the law but to invent it themselves. This is a very dangerous precedent and since your court is new I urge you to do something about this before it goes much further. Just on the question of the trade deal -- why has it been so difficult? In Canada we had two years of pre-study, seven years of negotiations, and three years of implementation to get a trade deal with the European Union. So these things are not easy. This one shouldn't be as complicated because essentially you already have a free trade framework with the European Union which frankly Brexiters others are not proposing to change significantly. So it shouldn't take as long. I don't think from what I'm hearing it's the fault of the bureaucrats. I think it's the fault of the political dynamics. Europe doesn't want Britain to leave. And as long as there are people in this country who say we can only leave if the EU gets a veto then of course you can't get it done or you can't get a reasonable deal. So the problem here has been people who not only don't accept the referendum result but have consistently tried to undermine Britain's negotiating -- going forward. And by the way power to your prime minister calling this act of parliament the Surrender Act -- it's exactly what it is. And I tell you something -- I used to tell my staff when my opposition was complaining about some term I was using double the [inaudible] it means it's hurting. It's true and it's hurting and you need the back to make them hurt more till they back off.

KG: Former Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper speaking earlier today in Manchester.

[Music]

Austria election

Guest: Ulrike Lunacek

KG: Ulrike Lunacek's fellow-party members are calling themselves the comeback kids. Ms. Lunacek is the former leader of Austria's Green Party. In 2017 they were wiped off the electoral map but in Sunday's election Austrian voters brought them roaring back and dealt a major setback to the country's far-right Freedom Party. That has Austria's former centre right chancellor trying to figure out who to partner with in a coalition government. We reached Ulrike Lunacek in Vienna.

CO: Ms. Lunacek why have Austrians decided to give your Greens another chance?

ULRIKE LUNACEK: [Chuckles] Well there were two main reasons: one was that many former Green voters they decided now we need the Greens again. We need good opposition. We need the right forwardness and the experience and expertise of Greens in the parliament again. And then of course the theme that is all over the world at the moment which is Greta Thunberg, Fridays For Future, action needed against the climate catastrophe -- that is the main topic now. It was not two years ago. Two years ago it was migration and asylum. And this topic which is like the essence of what Green parties are the world over this really also helped us to get almost like 14 percent at the national elections on Sunday.

CO: Okay so you were one of the big winners and that has put you in a very good position for a coalition government. The biggest loser I guess in the election appears to be the far-right Freedom Party that has suffered a series of embarrassing scandals -- one around this video that came out in May with the leader of the party, and then the more recent one when the public found out that the leader of the party was actually getting quite a large allowance to pay for his lifestyle. That certainly affected people as they went to the polls. But is it in any way because the Freedom Party and what it represents has diminished in the eyes of Austrians?

UL: I think many people who vote for them voted for them because they promised they would do something for them, they would do something for the poor people, the blue collar workers that are not so well-off. And also I mean of course the whole topic that made them win so much two years ago with migration and asylum seekers coming into Austria which incited also hatred against them when saying that if they leave sort of you will not lose your jobs or things like that which I mean in reality this wasn't true but they sort of made people believe that the foreigners -- the asylum seekers, the migrants -- are the ones that cause problems for people not finding a job again when they lose their job when they are like 50 years old. Things like that. Now this topic of migration and asylum isn't that important anymore. There are not that many asylum seekers coming anymore. And really the scandal made people...they really felt betrayed by Strache and the others. That they had told them all the time we do something for you, we help you that you get more money and we are not the ones abusing money -- we are not corrupt. And then you see this high level corruption which really made people angry at them that they betrayed them.

CO: Strache of course is Heinz-Christian Strache who was leader of the party. But we did see racist misogynist attacks on Green candidates -- people from your party -- during the election. What does that say about what's going on?

UL: I'm afraid to say we've had that before. It got worse over the years over the social media. And I think now there's more awareness about it. There is a bit more legal options to deal with it but at the same time there's still a lot of that. You get if you are I mean especially when you are from my party but also others especially also women and especially for example if they're out like myself -- lesbian politicians or gay or people of colour -- they get really very bad comments in the social media by lots of people. Sometimes you know that it comes from maybe the Freedom Party but not only -- it's really something where I think social media sometimes wonder why they're called social [laughs] because it's not very nice.

CO: So we know that the centre-right People's Party, Sebastian Kurz's party, is the bigger winner. He will make a coalition. But he did campaign on an anti-immigrant platform. He was in coalition with the far-right Freedom Party before. It doesn't appear that he's changed his view, he's turning to the Greens because well you are second and it's the best coalition he could possibly get if it works out. Do you think you can get into bed with Mr. Kurz so to speak?

UL: Well not into bed for sure. [Laughs] But we don't know yet. We always said we will talk with them. We will see with certain sort of things that are really important to us. Whether he is willing to change from his -- which till now was all together with a Freedom Party -- I would say a right-wing populist politics he did. Not a centre-right one as he defines it. And if he wants to continue that line with a very strict and rigid anti-migrant politics for example that asylum seekers who have started working and learning for an apprenticeship or who are apprentices that they should be deported if their asylum application is rejected even without finishing their studies. That is something that simply I would even call it stupid because it harms Austrian companies and businesses as well who have tried to not just help those people but to teach them something and they work for them and then they have to leave from one day to the next. I mean this simply is out of the question. But that's just one. There's many other issues. Also on climate change they haven't really been serious over the last years. If he really wants to have a coalition with us, we are saying he has to move back to a kind of centre position with the other part of the Austrian People's Party is the one more like Christian social people who think about -- I mean there has been some good experiences with them in part of the western regions where we have been in the government with some of them. If that happens, maybe. But we are rather skeptical at the moment and rather think his best option still would be with the Freedom Party. But they have lost a lot and they are not in a good shape.

CO: We will leave it there. Ms. Lunacek thank you so much.

UL: Thank you very much. All the best to you.

KG: Ulrike Lunacek is the former leader of the Austrian Green Party. We reached her in Vienna.

[Music]

Bear Attack

KG: When you're out hiking and you catch a glimpse of wildlife it feels incredibly lucky. Until the wildlife catches a glimpse of you. For Dave Schwab what began as a fleeting black bear sighting quickly devolved into a violent encounter that left him at the hospital with serious injuries. He was hiking near Kenora, Ontario when he came across a black bear. And despite shouting and waving to deter it, it continued to follow him. This morning Dave Schwab told CBC Winnipeg's "Information Radio' what happened next.

SOUNDCLIP

DAVE SCHWAB: He immediately left where he was sitting and came out and began to follow me. And I walked backwards. And I again waving, shouting ,telling him to go -- to leave. He just kept coming. And then he moved more quickly. When he was about two feet from me I backpedaled and I lost my balance and fell onto my butt. And he came at me from the side and he grabbed onto my thigh and just kind of crunched down. I got huge incisor holes that I had in my thigh on the top and the bottom. And I cannot tell you Aaron why I did it but his head was right there -- I just reached up with my thumbs and I pushed under the soft spot under here in the neck and pushed up and soon as I could and he let go. But then he latched onto my arm immediately. And then my leg was free and I kicked him. And I don't know how he did it because it was badly mangled. Then he left and I got up. And he just moved to the side of the road. I continued to walk towards the cabin backwards. Suddenly he started coming towards me again. And I took the birch branch that I had and I cracked it over his snout. He retreated again to the side of the road and at this point I'm getting towards -- I'm still quite a distance from my cabin but I began to yell for help. Hoping and praying that the contractors would hear me. And they must have heard me because suddenly their truck came ripping up the road. And they just hauled me in and took me off to Kenora. The MNR -- he was a biologist -- he visited me -- said this was all the characteristics and behaviors of a predator. He was out for a meal. And they wear you down. And if these guys hadn't come or hadn't heard me I don't know...if I would have made it back. And I feel grateful and I'm alive I believe because of them.

KG: That's David Schwab telling CBC's Aaron Broman how he survived an attack by a black bear while hiking near Kenora, Ontario.

[Music]

Human-Pet Relationship

KG: Bodhi the Cat may only be a year old but he's already lived more in one life than most cats live in all nine. The Maine Coon is driven by a uniquely adventurous spirit but also by a human companion who rejects the notion that curiosity killed the cat. Which is why Michelle Gagnon and Bodhi spend a lot of time exploring the Rocky Mountains together around their home in Canmore, Alberta. Earlier today she spoke with Rob Brown, guest host of CBC Radio's "Calgary Eyeopener" about the intrepid duo's adventures.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHELLE GAGNON: He has been hiking. He hikes about between two and five kilometres. Now he's up to about almost five kilometres in a day. And he was bike packing from Jasper to Canmore in the front basket of my bike. He's been paddle boarding and he's been skiing in the winter.

ROB BROWN: How do you get him skiing exactly?

MICHELLE GAGNON: So he'll walk up behind me in the snow -- I say load up and he runs up my leg and he sits on my shoulders and that's his safe spot from when we're hiking or skiing or anything that is not walking [laughs].

ROB BROWN: You ski with the cat on your shoulders?

MICHELLE GAGNON: Yeah.

ROB BROWN: I'm assuming you get a couple looks when you're out and about.

MICHELLE GAGNON: Yeah everyone's like -- because he kind of has this wild look a little bit so everyone's like, is that really a cat? Is that like a normal cat?

ROB BROWN: Do you have him on a leash when you're on the trail?

MICHELLE GAGNON: Oh yeah. He's always on a leash. I started him on the sidewalk which is very challenging for a cat. I had an 18-year-old that did the same kind of adventures and everything and he never really liked walking on the sidewalk either. But I did start him there and it would take you know two hours to go around the block initially.

ROB BROWN: Did you say this isn't your first adventure cat?

MICHELLE GAGNON: This is my second adventure cat. My other cat lived to almost 18 last year.

ROB BROWN: I imagine you come across dog owners while you're out and about -- what's their take on your adventure cat?

MICHELLE GAGNON: Ah some people do a double take -- they are like, What? Is that a cat? And then some people give me a weird look like, hey you have no rights taking your cat out here on a leash.

ROB BROWN: And do you ever come across any other adventure cats?

MICHELLE GAGNON: There are other adventure cats out there now. Yeah there's becoming a bit of an adventure cat community.

KG: Canmore resident Michelle Gagnon speaking with "Calgary Eyeopener" guest host Rob Brown this morning about her fearless cat Bodhi. That fearlessness makes Bodhi a rare breed of cat. Although as I mentioned he's actually a fairly common breed of Maine Coon. Which reminded us of another adventurous human-pet relationship we learned about a few years back. Although in this case the human was arguably displaying the lion's share of nerve. He's Mark Brown -- a.k.a. "Coonrippy" -- of Gallatin, Tennessee. And by the time he spoke with As It Happens guest host Laura Lynch back in 2013 he was something of a YouTube celebrity sidekick to his pet raccoons, Rebekah and Gunshow.

SOUNDCLIP

MARK BROWN: Well it's no different than a housecat. If you get them at an early age especially when their eyes are closed then they are imprinted. They don't know that they are a raccoon. I don't recommend anyone going out and catching a raccoon that is already partially grown or still with its mother with its eyes open or three months old because them things will -- they'll rip your face off.

LAURA LYNCH: I would think so yeah. You actually featured Rebekah and your previous raccoon who's called Gunshow as I understand it in your YouTube videos. So tell me about the videos and who appears in which video.

MARK BROWN: Well Rebekah came in the final ones. The babies that you see on there -- it's Connie my girlfriend, she's one that shoots all the videos and I was on the computer playing raccoon sounds to Rebekah to let her know what other raccoons sounded like so she could get an idea what she was. And Rebekah was just like a little puppy. She even slept in the bed with us at night.

LAURA LYNCH: And she took a shower with you. Tell me about that video.

MARK BROWN: Well it just happened one day I happened to leave the door open and next thing I know she was in the tub there and then she kept clawing at my leg. She was wanting up so I put her up on my shoulder. Then it got to where if she wasn't asleep or preoccupied with Connie I could sneak in and get a shower but if I was here by myself or whatever and left that door open -- here she comes. She's right in the shower with me.

LAURA LYNCH: There's another one of Gunshow in you dancing on the porch. Tell me about that.

MARK BROWN: Well he loved to have fun just as much as I did. And we were sitting around one day and I had a CD playing and it had a bunch of different oldies songs on there. And Aretha Franklin came on and Connie said why don't you and Gunshow dance. I said all right -- it's on. And she turned on the camera. But oddly enough that video was uploaded a year ago and it didn't get much attention until the past couple weeks and then it went viral.

KG: From our archives: Mark "Coonrippy" Brown in 2013 speaking with As It Happens guest host Laura Lynch about his pet raccoon Rebekah. You can find out more on that story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

October 1, 2019 Episode Transcript

More Stories Like This