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The AIH Transcript for September 30, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Karen Gordon

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening, I'm Karen Gordon. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

KG: Tonight:

CO: Courage, but not a lot of convictions. The Viens Commission says it's time for Quebec to apologize for discrimination against Indigenous people — but our guest says an apology won't help women living in fear of abuse by police.

KG: At long last, athletic support. College sports are a multi-billion-dollar industry in the U.S. — and now, California's become the first state to allow the actual athletes to make money of their own.

CO: Shocking figures. There are 13 thousand refugees in a Greek camp designed for three thousand. So when a fatal fire broke out yesterday, all hell broke loose — and an aid worker blames the Greek authorities.

KG: Public figures. A new sculpture in St. Peter's Square in Vatican City movingly depicts 140 migrants and refugees — and our guest was the unmoving model for more than half of them.

CO: Over and over, like a broker record. Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer has repeatedly mentioned his previous job as an insurance broker — but those claims may become a liability, since it turns out he wasn't.

KG: And...namesakes for the name's sake. A British pub owner named Nigel hopes to revive interest in the name by holding "Nigel Night" — and on Saturday, he was able to put more than 400 faces to the same name.

KG: As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that knows every time a bell rings, a Nigel gets his wings.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Viens Commission’s report, California athletes law, Nigel Night

Viens Commission’s report

Guest: Edith Cloutier

KG: Jacques Viens says it is time for action. This morning in Val-d'Or, Quebec, Commissioner Viens released the findings of his inquiry into Quebec's relationship with its Indigenous residents. And they are damning. Commissioner Viens describes public agencies systemically discriminating against people who they are meant to serve and protect. To begin to rebuild trust, Commissioner Viens recommends 142 specific actions, beginning with a public apology. None of this would have taken place if it weren't for the women Edith Cloutier works with in Val-d'Or. Ms. Cloutier runs the Native Friendship Centre there. The women made headlines when they came forward with story after story of abuse at the hands of police. We reached Edith Cloutier in Val-d'Or.

CO: Ms. Cloutier, how are the women you work with in Val-d’Or responding to the findings of Commissioner Viens today?

EDITH CLOUTIER: Well, actually we'll be gathering together for supper — like we've been doing for the past years — just to take care of one another, and make sure that they're okay, that they're surrounded by their family, by their community. So I'm actually going to be having them at the Friendship Centre for supper tonight.

CO: So without trying to predict what they might have to say, what from your point of view has this commission done? Will it satisfy them? Does it satisfy you?

EC: Well, to begin with, yeah, we need to commend the work of the commission. I think after all these hearings, and listening to hundreds and hundreds of people that have opened up, participation of Indigenous people that told their truth, their story. So in general, we're satisfied with the outcome. Of course, the very first call to action will provide the tone to all of this by asking the Quebec government for official apologies for the harm done to Indigenous people through public services. So we're going to see where this will lead us. There's another aspect that we find through the report that is a little bit concerning for us. We find that that report seems pretty discreet around policing. And what started all of this commission we were saying that it's an important and significant gesture that the government apologizes for the prejudice caused by public services practices. But for us, it's another level of reality of apologies from police authorities for aggression and abuse towards Indigenous people — mainly Indigenous woman. So we were sort of surprised and concerned that that report, very important report, what triggered that commission are the statements of those very courageous woman that came out and spoke out about police abuse.

CO: You're pointing out that what this commission really comes about, it starts after Radio-Canada — the French CBC — and it's show “Enquete” did this investigation into the police treatment of Indigenous women in particular. And only two investigations came out of about 62 complaints about how they're being treated. So what role did that abuse that was revealed in that “Enquete” investigation, what role did it play?

EC: Well, it's what triggered everything. It's the taking a public stand against police abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse on the part of the police authorities towards Indigenous women in Val-d’Or. There was some steps, there were investigations that were transferred to the Montreal police investigations. The outcome of that is that there were no accusations that came out of it. That was followed by a clear deception that was brought forward by the woman again that stood up after the decision of not moving forward with accusations towards police officers. And now this commission that is following the national commission's report that did make a statement — a separate report — for Quebec in regards to systemic racism. So we like saying okay, this is a good report. It raises the issue. It led to the conclusion that there is systemic racism that exists in Quebec. But on the other hand, what we're seeing is that again today, we’re in 2019, the public statement of those women was in 2015. And still to this day, those women are still afraid to be confronted with police. So we're still in that fact that they don't feel any safer than in 2015. So what we were expecting from this commission was a very clear call for action or statement around the SQ acknowledging that as an institution that they failed Indigenous woman.

CO: You mentioned you are going to be having dinner with these women tonight, and they are still feeling this fear, they're still feeling intimidated by the authorities in Val-d’Or. What will you say to them tonight?

EC: Well, the most difficult part for us in having this conversation and gathering is to let them know about the report. But reminding them first that this would not be happening, this historical report from a very important commission comes from them. And that we've always made sure that they are always aware that if it wasn't for their courage, we wouldn't be here. But the second part of it is to let them know the disappointment that we now have in terms of the report itself being very timid, discreet around what actually triggered the whole thing, and it’s the relationship with the policing. So we want to have a conversation with them to say well, how do you feel about this? And do you want to speak up about it? Because some of those women have moved on. Some of those women are having a better life for them because they've been working on their healing and everything. And some other women are still struggling. So you know we're more or more in a circle of care or relationship with our women, with our sisters. And so we just want to make them feel comfortable, and to make sure that they are very much aware of what's going to be in the news today, what's going to be in the news for the next few days, but also, what is the future in terms of relations with the Indigenous women and the government of Quebec.

CO: We will leave it there. Ms. Cloutier, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

EC: Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

CO: Bye-bye.

KG: Edith Cloutier runs the Native Friendship Centre in Val-d'Or, Quebec. And you can find more on that story on our website: www.cbc.ca/asithappens.

[Music: Sombre]

California athlete law

Guest: Nancy Skinner

KG: They sprint. They swim. And they dunk. But as accomplished as college athletes are — there's one thing they haven't been able to do: get paid. But the passing of California's "Fair Pay to Play Act" will finally change that. The bill — which goes into effect in 2023 — allows athletes in the state to profit from endorsements. Something the National Collegiate Athletic Association — or N-C-double-A — has long resisted, and continues to resist. Governor Gavin Newsom — who also played college baseball — signed the bill during a taping of Lebron James' HBO show, "The Shop."

SOUNDCLIP

GAVIN NEWSOM: I don't want to say this is checkmate, but this is a major problem for the N-C-two-A. It's going to initiate dozens of other states to introduce similar legislation. And it's going to change college sports for the better, by having now the interests — finally — of the athletes on par with the interests of the institutions. Now we're rebalancing that power arrangement.

[Sound: Cheering and clapping]

KG: That's California governor Gavin Newsom signing the "Fair Pay to Play Act" into law. Democratic State Senator Nancy Skinner wrote the bill. We reached her in Oakland, California.

CO: Senator Skinner, why should the NCAA let college athletes get paid for endorsements?

NANCY SKINNER: Well, they should let him get paid for anything related to that student's athletic talent. And the reason is college sports has generated billions for all involved — except the very people that are most responsible for creating that wealth. And that's wrong.

CO: Okay, you mentioned in any way that they can make money. So what would the bill allow athletes to do in the way of making money?

NS: So every single Californian — and most Americans — have the right to their name, image, and likeness. Only student athletes don't have that right. Why? Because once you are accepted at a college that is part of the N-C-two-A, and you participate in the sports program at that college. You must sign a waiver. Now the absurdity of that waiver is that it extends to the point where a swimmer can’t teach swimming lessons Katelyn Ohashi, for example, the brilliant UCLA gymnast, had 60 million YouTube followers. She couldn't monetize her YouTube videos. But not only that, she actually is a poet. She was not allowed to publish her poetry as an N-C-two-A athlete. So she had to get a waiver from the N-C-two-A. And it took so long, she was already finished school but then they approved the waiver.

CO: What's the motivation behind it? Why does the NCAA really do that?

NS: You'd have to ask them. I think part of it is they have a very narrow-minded sense of their business model. And they think somehow this money related to college sports is a tiny pie that if it's shared, they'll get less. I don't think that's the case. But they have gone to great lengths over decades to codify — to make in law — a definition of student-athlete and amateur athlete that protected colleges and them from any liability, and also protected against workers comp lawsuits and such. And I think they were trying to protect their bottom line, at the expense of the students.

CO: Doesn't it give the athletes though a chance to be discovered, to move to that next professional level where they could make a great deal of money. They're in the universities or the colleges, often on scholarships. They have their tuition paid for. They are being developed, and sometimes getting food, lodgings. Isn't that enough for them?

NS: Okay, so let's be real. Number one, as an N-C-two-A athlete, you've already come there as an elite athlete. Second, the vast majority of student-athletes do not get scholarships. That is a complete myth. So most student-athletes, even though they have to put in hours for their sport, they have no scholarship, so they're barely making ends meet. And then lastly, you know there are so few opportunities to go pro. For the men athletes, maybe 2 per cent ever go pro. If you're a female athlete, give me a break. You can count on three fingers the number of professional leagues that a woman can even be part of. And then her pay is so minimal. So college for many of these athletes is the primary and only time where the spotlight is on them, and where they could reap some type of financial benefit from the incredible skills that they have spent so many years developing.

CO: A number of athletes — former athletes — have weighed in on this. And former NFL-er Tim Tebow has said that he believes college sports are about the school and not the individual and that he's worried that this will make it into a kind of minor-league NFL, and might ruin college sports. What do you say to them?

NS: College sports is already a multibillion dollar business. In many states, the coaches are the highest paid state employees. And not only do they get their salary, they're allowed to get separate endorsements and sponsorships. We need to bring equity into this industry. And students deserve a fair share.

CO: But does it not create a kind of hierarchy of athletes? There's only going to be a handful that's going to be able to make money from it. Does it separate them?

NS: I think that is a completely inaccurate notion. Yes, there is a handful of athletes who will get very large monetary deals. But each and every student would have the ability to either get their local hometown service club to sponsor them, or market T-shirts of themselves, or market videos, or what have you. And teach swimming lessons, for example, if they're a swimmer, or run summer sports camps no matter what sport they're in. Whether they're a golfer, a tennis player, a football player, or a softball player — all of those things right now, a student athlete is completely prohibited from doing.

CO: As the author of this bill, you know you still have a few hurdles. Well, before and after, it's being challenged because it applies to California. And the argument the NCAA is giving that national laws apply — federal laws apply so how confident are you that you'll be able to overcome the legal challenges before you?

NS: California leads. That's what we do. But many, many other states are acting similarly. So basically, if N-C-two-A wants a level playing field, the ball's in their court. They have the ability to give every student athlete nationwide the right to their name, image, and likeness. And that's what I hope they do.

CO: All right, we'll leave it there. Senator Skinner, thank you.

NS: You're welcome.

KG: Nancy Skinner is a Democratic state senator in California. We reached her in Oakland.

[Music: Jazz]

Harry Jerome Doodle

KG: If you're on Google's homepage today, you may notice its rather striking Doodle — that's the art above the search bar. It's an image of a black athlete running through Olympic ribbons. That's Harry Jerome, the Saskatoon sprinter who set the world record for the 100-meter dash when he ran it in ten seconds back in 1960. He died in 1982, but today would have been his 79th birthday. Today, Stefani Langenegger, host of CBC's "Morning Edition" in Regina, spoke with Mr. Jerome's sister, Valerie Jerome, about what it means for her brother to have this recognition.

SOUNDCLIP

VALERIE JEROME: It's a wonderful honour for him. Too bad he's not here to experience this, but I think it's also an inspiration to other young people — be they any minority black, whatever, Indigenous — to see that Canadians who excel can be appropriately honoured and recognized by their community.

STEFANI LANGENEGGER: What was it like for you and for Harry competing at that time?

VJ: Well, you know for 50 or so years, emigration of blacks into Canada was not allowed. We had gone from a population of 60,000 blacks in Canada in the time of Confederation to 18,000 blacks in 1956. So we didn't see ourselves reflected at the track. You know, we were the only black people at those Canadian Championships in 1959 and 1960.

SL: On this day that hit your brothers being honored by Google really around the world, Valerie, what would you say his legacy has been?

VJ: To reach out and make athletics more inclusive, but also in the face of failure, to continue to strive. And what I mean by failure, Harry had two very serious injuries in his career. And certainly after the second one it was believed by the surgeon that Harry would never run again. Well, you know he did two more Olympics after that. That’s what I encourage young people to think. I say to them when they talk of having seen the statue, I say it's not for his medals. He's there because he got up and faced the many, many challenges he had as an athlete.

KG: Valerie Jerome is the sister of the late athlete Harry Jerome, who is today being honoured with a Google Doodle. She was speaking with CBC Regina.

[Music: Brit pop]

Nigel Night

Guest: Nigel Smith

KG: There were young Nigels, old Nigels, Australian Nigels — even Texan Nigels. At a pub in Worcestershire, England this weekend, a man named Nigel celebrated all things "Nigel", surrounded by hundreds of men who shared his enthusiasm — all named "Nigel". Nigel Smith is the owner of Fleece Inn, and the Nigel who organized 'Nigel Night.' We reached him in Bretforton, England.

CO: Nigel, why did you want to celebrate being Nigel?

NIGEL SMITH: Well, about three years ago, I realized that there were no new Nigel's named in the UK in 2016. So I thought that's a bit of a worry really because most of us are of a certain age you know we're going to die out soon. So it's important to sort of celebrate our Nigelness [CO laughs] before we all pop off the planet.

CO: A dying breed then you say?

NS: A dying breed, exactly, yeah.

CO: How many Nigel's turned out?

NS: So on the night, we had 434. Originally, I thought it was 433, but I forgot to count myself.

CO: All of them named Nigel. Did they have to prove it? Did they have to show you I.D.?

NS: Yeah, they had to bring I.D. — so their licence, or their passport, or whatever. If you were a Nigel, you've got a badge that said “Nigel” on it, and you got a certificate. And if you weren’t a Nigel, you got a badge that said “not Nigel” on it — just so people were sure.

CO: Now, is there anything, did you notice having so many Nigel's in the room from all over the world at the same time, any common traits, anything that you all seem to have that either you got by being Nigel, or called Nigel because of?

NS: I think we're all pretty stoical about life, really. I mean Nigel is a name you need to grow into, I think. So certainly when I was younger, people used to take the mickey out of me quite a lot for being called Nigel, and say it was a joke name. But you know if you do your research, it's originally a medieval name. It's been written about by people like Walter Scott back in the 1800s. So it's got some real so the character and a real robustness that we need to celebrate even though our name has been much maligned over the last two or three decades, I think.

CO: But there's no King Nigel is there? I mean there's no Commander Nigel no General Nigel, so any famous Nigel you can point to?

NS: Well, we've got quiet leadership skills. I think that's what we've got, really. Yeah [CO and NS chuckle]. Discrete leadership skills, maybe. There's quite a lot of famous Nigels in the UK. There's a guy called Nigel Benn, who’s a boxer. And Nigel Mansell, who's a very famous international formula one driver.

CO: Now, you left one Nigel off your list: Nigel Farage. Has he brought credit to the name Nigel, or has he diminished in any way?

NS: I think you know he's obviously a very divisive political figure. And I think one of the things that made our Nigel Night worked so well was that it was not about the politics. And it was almost a real positive coming together of like-minded people — if only through the same common fore name.

CO: I just wonder if maybe the 2016 Nigel drought had anything to do with your political figure?

NS: It could have. But despite the man, we are fighting back, you know? [CO and NS chuckle]

CO: Okay, you had some awards. What were the Nigel awards that you handed out?

NS: So yeah. So we did “The Youngest Nigel”, I was seven months old, Rupert Nigel. Don't know his parents they wanted to give him two challenges in life: being called Rupert and Nigel. [CO giggles] But you know once he gets through there, he'll be made of iron. And then we had “The Nigel Most Traveled”, who’s a guy from Texas, who has seen it on social media, and was really up for it, and his girlfriend decided that was a great idea, but didn’t have the money. So they put something out on social media for everybody to send five or ten dollars, which they duly did, and the both of them came over specifically for the Nigel Nnight. So Nigel Stevens, he’s our only crowdfunded Nigel that we had there.

CO: Now did they tell stories? Did they say talk about being bullied as a Nigel, or being anything that happened to them in life good or bad because they were Nigel?

NS: Oh yeah they did, but everybody just kind of got going talking to each other. And we were going to do a thing called “Speed Nigel”, you know like speed dating back in the 80s and 90s, but for Nigels, and give them two or three minutes to talk to a new Nigel every two to three minutes. [CO chuckles] But it just didn't need it. Everybody was just in there and doing it anyway. And so we had guys who were working on it put on a car production line and then talking to professors, and all different types of Nigel. So it was a life-enhancing experience one of my locals said [CO chuckles].

CO: Now, just because I do know Nigel, and we call him Nige, and I've never asked him how he feels about that. What's the general feeling among Nigels about being called Nige?

NS: Most Nigels quite happy to be called Nige because mainly when they get called Nigel, it's either in a job interview, or because their mum's telling them off, I would think [CO laughs]

CO: All right, Nige, good to talk to you.

NS: Yes, okay. It's a pleasure.

CO: Take care.

NS: Well, I'm coming over to Canada next year for a holiday. So I'm going to do it like a missionary thing. I'm going to be recruiting Nigels from Canada to come back over to the UK for our Nigel Night, I think.

CO: Well, I'll sign up the Nigels I know then, how is that? All right.

NS: Yeah, yeah.

CO: Take care Nige.

NS: Thank you. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

NS: Bye.

KG: Nigel Smith is the owner of The Fleece Inn — and the organizer of "Nigel Night". We reached him in Bretforton (BRET-fur-ton), England. For more on this story, including photos, head to our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Part two: Lesbos refugee camps, sculpture model

Lesbos refugee camp

Guest: Marco Sandrone

KG: The situation inside the Moria refugee camp in Greece is already untenable. But a tragic fire yesterday has made things even more desperate. The blaze broke out inside a shipping container used to house refugees. An Afghan woman was killed, and nineteen others were injured. The fire launched mass chaos in the camp — which led to police firing tear gas into a dense crowd of refugees. And now, the Greek government is vowing to transfer more refugees to the mainland. But Marco Sandrone doesn't have much faith in the Greek government anymore. He's a field coordinator with Medecins Sans Frontieres, and works at the Moria (MORE-ee-uh) reception centre. We reached him there.

CO: Mr. Sandrone, how would you describe the state of mind of the refugees in this camp after yesterday's devastating fire?

MARCO SANDRONE: The situation is absolutely dramatic still today. People they’re in shock. They've lost hope. And they are afraid that something like what's happened yesterday could happen again.

CO: What do we know about how the fire started in the first place?

MS: We don't have actual details. But the authorities today, they have disclosed some information. And they are talking about an accident. Probably a little more than an electric issue in one of the containers where people live.

CO: And we talk about these containers, what are we talking about? This is where refugees are living?

MS: Yeah, exactly. In this refugee camp, you have some containers adapted as accommodation where you have at least most of the time, more than the four families sharing these containers. And then you have all other kinds of accommodation — which are basically tents just set up in between these containers inside the camp.

CO: And what are those conditions? What is it like to live in one of those containers with three other families?

MS: The condition is absolutely inadequate, and they are horrible. There are no services at all. And if you consider that the camp was set to host maximum 3,000 people, and today we have thirteen thousand people living there in such a poor living conditions. So it is absolutely inhumane to live in such a situation.

CO: And so the fire started. Are there kitchens inside these? Do people cook inside the containers?

MS: There are as well electrical items. And this is not the first time that fire erupts in the camp. And the response was probably as well inadequate. More than seven containers were burnt out. And, of course, then the population started to ask for an immediate evacuation. The police responded immediately with teargas. So you had a sort of a battlefield in a camp, which is completely enclosed with high walls and barbed wire. This was the scenario yesterday in Moria.

CO: Okay, you're saying that there a fire where people are injured. A person is killed in this fire. They're trying to get out of the fire, and the police arrive and use tear gas on them?

MS: So basically, when we arrived to assess medical needs, there were already the containers on fire. Firefighters were trying to turn down the fire with the support of the population. But then rumors start to spread out of casualties in the fire. Then, of course, the chaotic situation turned into riots inside the camp.

CO: Now, the police are defending their actions. They say the situation was out of control. And they say the behaviour of the refugees was very aggressive. They wouldn't let the fire engines pass to put out the blaze. And he says that they were shouting Kill police. Is there truth to that?

MS: As I told you, I was not there witnessing anybody screaming or shouting. What I can probably talk you about is that of the wounded that we have assisted in our clinic, that we need to do set up outside the camp in a very short time. And we worked until 12:00 to meet several wounded, and people who had panic attack. And at the end, the number of the patients we have welcomed in our clinic is more than 30.

CO: So what is daily life like at Moria?

MS: I could just say that it's terrible for the people living there.

CO: I mean they have to get food, sanitation is substandard, they're crowded.

MS: It’s absolutely substandard. You have areas of the camp where there are 90 people per toilet, and 400 people for a shower. They are queuing for hours in line to receive their food that sometimes is not even enough. And some people are left without food. So these are the condition of these people. And you have now today, 40 per cent of these 13,000 people there are children. You have 1,000 unaccompanied minors. These are the vulnerable people should been immediately evacuated. So what we are asking as MSF — as Doctors Without Borders — is that these people — the most vulnerable people — should be taken in a safe and dignified accommodation in mainland, or in any other EU countries where proper medical care could be provided to them. The current containment policy has proving to be a total failure. And yesterday was just the last demonstration of it.

CO: So this is the containment policy, they're all here because they can't go back or they can't go forward — they're stuck there. And you have said elsewhere that no one can call the fire and these deaths an accident. What are you talking about there?

MS: Absolutely, this is not an accident because this tragedy is the direct result of these brutal policy destructing 13,000 people in a camp made for 3,000. European and Greek authorities who are continuing containing these people in these conditions have the responsibility in the repetition of these dramatic episodes. So this is not the first time there is a fire inside the camp. And yet, we are talking about a woman was escaping from a war, left her home to reach Lesbos, to reach Europe, and died in such a miserable way inside the camp.

CO: The Greek government says it is now going to ramp up the transfers of refugees to the mainland. Is that going to help?

MS: What we have experienced in the last month has been inadequate transfer in terms of number to mainland. Not only in terms of numbers this action is inadequate. But is inadequate as long as these transfer are just moving people from a camp here in an island to a camp in mainland in Greece without adequate services, without a dignified accommodation, and without a medical care that these people deserve.

CO: All right. Mr. Sandrone, We’ll leave it there. It sounds like a desperate situation, but I appreciate you speaking with us tonight.

MS: Thank you. It is a desperate situation.

CO: Bye-bye.

KG: Marco Sandrone (MARK-oh san-DRONE-ay) is a field coordinator with Medecins Sans Frontieres. We reached him in Moria, Greece.

[Music: Sad piano]

Sculpture model

Guest: Ed Czuchnicki

KG: Ed Czuchnicki has been all over the world. Or, his body has. For two decades, Mr. Czuchnicki has modelled for Canadian artist Timothy Schmalz, whose statues have been installed in Dublin, Chicago, and Rome. This weekend, a life-sized bronze statue was unveiled in St. Peter's Square in Vatican City — a first in over 400 years. It's called "Angels Unawares," and it depicts 140 migrants and refugees. Ed Czuchnicki posed for more than half of those figures. We reached him in Oakville, Ontario.

CO: Ed, this is an extraordinary sculpture. It's very large, and quite imposing. What can you tell us about it? What does it look like?

ED CZUCHNICKI: It's huge. It's huge. The limiting factor on the sculpture was will it fit in the shipping container from China to Rome? And when Tim saw it in St. Peter's Square, his first thought was it should have been bigger [CO chuckles]. So even though it's imposing, it is huge, it’s 140 people on a boat. The outside ring has about 40-42 people on it. They're life-sized figures — men, women, children.

CO: And they're quite crowded in, as they would be on a boat if they are migrants are refugees, and they're fleeing to a better life. That's pretty accurate, isn't it?

EC: That's one of the things which I was feeling as I was modeling for it. These people are so close. You know, no one was pushy. There's a lot of emotion on that boat. Some are happy some are sad, and they're all crowded. They're touching each other. But you know, none of them are in anyone else's way. It was a peaceful boats, even though it's not a peaceful experience.

CO: The work is called “Angels Unawares”, and there is one other part of the sculpture, which are these angel wings. What's he trying to say with this work?

EC: It comes from me a biblical text. It goes: Be not forgetful of strangers. Because in doing so, we are with angels unawares. It's saying that we shouldn't judge people because we don't know who they are. They shouldn't judge us. They don't know who we are. We don't know this could be an angel. So we have to treat life with respect. From one regard, we are all the same. We are all on that boat, regardless of who we are.

CO: You posed for about half of those figures who are represented in this work, is that right?

EC: Yes.

CO: What did you have to do? Because every single one of them has a different expression — some seem hopeful, some look somewhat fearful. They all have a different thing that they're projecting as they're on this boat going to another place. What do you have to do to help Timothy Schmalz — the artist — to create those images?

EC: Well, Tim as an artist, is really quite unique in the way that he knows exactly what he wants. When I model for other artists — and this is true for all models — the model is allowed to set the pose. Perhaps you'll be told I want a standing pose our sitting pose, but you're not told how to hold your arms, what expression to have on your face. Tim is different. Tim knows exactly what he wants. He actually does it before I get there. I come into the studio, I assume the pose, and he makes corrections before he puts on the drapery. That's a large part of my job.

CO: But he also wants to create in every expression some kind of story, some kind of emotion. What is he trying to express with those faces, do you think?

EC: I think he just wants to represent everybody. I truly believe anyone could look at that sculpture and find themselves, or find a relative, or find someone that they know.

CO: Does it speak to your own experience? I understand that. One of the images — one of the faces — is someone very close to you?

EC: That would be my mother. I've been modeling for over 20 years. I've had a lot of success. The best thing that's ever happened in my modeling career is Tim putting my mother on the boat. Tim wanted to put a beautiful woman on the boat. A number of years ago, in the studio, we were talking about feminine beauty, what is it that makes a woman beautiful? And I said you know my mother when she was young, I've seen photos, and I remember when I was a boy, she was drop dead gorgeous. She was really something. And I knew that because as a little boy, I'd walk down the street with her, and she would turn heads. And the as she aged, She became sick, she spent the last six seven years of her life in a wheelchair, head drooped over. She couldn't speak. She could hardly move. Her beauty had changed. And then Tim came along and made her beautiful again.

CO: And did she also have a similar experience in her own travels to Canada?

EC: She was a legitimate refugee, World War Two, her family, she was twelve years old. She was shipped to Siberia, where she survived for two years. So she belongs on the boat. Not just because it's a gift from Tim to me, but she's the representative of just one of those people.

CO: So, you saw the pictures from Rome today. This is now in the Vatican. And there was the pope reaching out, touching these figures. How did you feel when you saw that? figures that are modeled on you. How did you react when you saw the pope actually touch these figures?

EC: I knew it was going to St. Peter's Square. I knew no sculpture had been there since Bernini 400 years ago. I knew this was the world stage. I knew this all was true. But I couldn't really grasp that. Because to me, it's really a large part of it is work. I show up, I do my job, and I leave. And the fact that it was commissioned by the pope, I think it's wonderful. I don't even think the pope would want people to see him there. I think he would want to see the refugees.

CO: Have you had a chance to see it in its completion?

EC: I haven't seen the bronze. I saw the clay model. Tim works in clay. But I was hoping to go to Rome. I certainly thought of it.

CO: Do you have plans to go to the Vatican to see the final work of art?

EC: I do have plans to go. I would be an idiot not to go. It's on the “to do” list. I have to go and see this. There are other sculptures which Tim has done which I've modeled for. Some are in Rome, some are in other cities. So one day, I'm going to set out on a tour, and that'll be something that we'll do.

CO: Ed, it’s a great story. And I hope you get a chance to see the final work, and to see your mom there in all her beauty. Thanks for speaking with us.

EC: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

KG: Ed Czuchnicki is an art model. He posed for more than half of the figures in a new bronze statue unveiled in St. Peter's Square in Vatican City this weekend. We reached him in Oakville, Ontario.

[Music: Horns]

Andrew Scheer

KG: The evidence is damning, or maybe more "darning". And these revelations raise major questions. Among them: how boring can a scandal be, and still be considered a scandal? Exhibit A: this sentence in Andrew Scheer's biography on the Conservative Party website. Quote: "Before entering public life, Andrew worked in the private sector as an insurance broker." Unquote. Exhibit B: an article published on Saturday in the Globe and Mail, which, quote, "found no record he ever received the licence required by law to work as an insurance agent or broker in Saskatchewan." Unquote. A spokesperson clarified to The Globe that Mr. Scheer was taking courses to become a broker, but left to work for a Canadian Alliance MP after a few months. Meaning he hadn't become a broker. Meaning, one concludes, that he wasn't one. But the "insurance broker" job is a key part of the portrait of Andrew Scheer as a guy who, you know, had jobs before he went into politics, which explains why he's not backing down. Here he is at an event today in Whitby, Ontario. The reporter is Giuseppe Valiante from the Canadian Press.

SOUNDCLIP

GIUSEPPE VALIANTE: So the Liberals are asking Saskatchewan’s insurance industry watchdogs to investigate you for what they claim is a false claim that you once worked as an insurance broker in the province. Now, in terms of the perception, how were Canadians supposed to see you as anything other than a career politician if you know one of your pre politics professions has clearly been misrepresented?

ANDREW SCHEER: I disagree with that premise. When I was 24, working in an insurance office, I received my accreditation under the Canadian Accredited Insurance Broker Program for a General Insurance, and I and I left before obtaining the full licence, but I did receive that accreditation for general insurance. And I worked in that office. I also waited tables before, putting my way through university. I have had many different types of jobs before I was elected.

KG: After that, the CBC's Janyce McGregor requested more details.

SOUNDCLIP

JANYCE MCGREGOR: I'd like to follow up on my colleague's question for a little bit more clarity. Exactly how many months did you work at that insurance office?

AS: I can go back and check my personal records, I guess. But it was in 2003, when I was 24 years old. I worked from approximately spring to sometime in the fall, so six or seven months.

JM: And can you clarify exactly what tasks you were working at in that office? Because there's a lot of things that are done in an insurance office, so what exactly did your particular job entail?

AS: Supporting the whole team, answering questions from customers and clients, and doing preparatory work, and explaining information — passing on information — to people who would come into the office.

JM: Okay, so you were never actually working as a broker then, it doesn't sound like.

AS: As I said, I received my accreditation under the Canadian Accredited Insurance Broker Program. In this particular office, the licensed brokers finalized all the transactions.

KG: By mentioning the "licensed brokers", Andrew Scheer seems to be suggesting that he was an unlicensed broker, which is...not a thing. Furthermore, the Canadian Accredited Insurance Bureau he keeps mentioning is a training curriculum. The Insurance Brokers Association of Saskatchewan website explicitly states, that curriculum, quote, "...make[s] up part but not all of Saskatchewan's current step-licensing requirements for insurance brokers." Unquote. In its mild weirdness, and dullness, this may be the most Canadian quasi-scandal of all time. And now, I guess, we'll all see how Andrew Scheer handles his own insurance claims.

[Music: Ambient]

Tegan and Sara album

KG: You might find it in a dog-eared yearbook or diary. Maybe it still lives on some long-lost cassette tape or USB stick. At one point or another — usually in high school — most of us have tried to write a song. And most of us would probably shudder to think that snapshot of us at our angstiest may ever see the light of day. But not Tegan and Sara, the Canadian pop-duo just released an album that takes a deep dive into their teenage years. To better understand the depths of that vulnerability, CBC host Robyn Bresnahan spoke with Ottawa musicians Kimberly Sunstrum and Jon Hynes — to find out whether they would ever share their first attempts at songwriting.

SOUNDCLIP

JON HYNES: The songs you write when you were a kid to you are amazing, and they're great, and some people ask oh, can I hear them. And there's you know always a few people that say oh, that's really good, and then you get a few truth bombs like keep working at it, you know? And that's fine. And that's how it's supposed to go. [all laugh]

KIMBERLY SUNSTRUM: It’ll get better.

JH: Yeah, it’ll get better. Better. You'll find it, don't worry.

KS: There’s other careers.

JH: But for them, it's like I mean they're so big and they're so good, it's not too surprising that all these old songs of theirs sound fantastic.

ROOBYN BRESNAHAN: Right, I mean might it have been a little bit more raw, do you think, if they had actually re-released the actual songs that they had recorded?

KS: As is, in exactly the same voice, and like you know the same quality as well, you know?

JH: For sure.

KS: And just like you know a little tape that you know is probably in their basement somewhere you know with cat sounds and stuff.

JH: Didn't really find their voice yet. You know, their voice is still not there. There's a lot of hiss and stuff on the tape.

KS: Maybe cracking.

JH: Exactly.

KS: I'd like to hear that. I'd buy that album.

RB: Well, in fact, it's such a shame actually, John, that we couldn't courier some tapes from your family basement to us. Because I understand that your first recordings were on like cassette tape, right?

JH: Yeah, I had a Tascam MK2, which is a little four-track that I saved up and bought when I was in grade eleven, or grade twelve, I think. And just tapes, tapes, tapes everywhere. And it was such a fun process to learn how to do it, and to write those songs. And they’re somewhere, but they're not here, unfortunately.

RB: Oh darn! But you, Kimberly, I think this is an old journal that you have brought in. Are these some of your first lyrics when you were a teen?

KS: Yes, they shamefully are. Yes, they are. I was saying to John earlier that I keep all my journals and writing and writing books. And so I popped up popped over to my parents place to go grab them last night, and had a good, good, shameful, shocking read of them.

RB: Why do you keep saying shameful? What’s shameful about them?

KS: You know what? It's actually the content that's around. Like the notes and the content around the songs that I find really fascinating in terms of like my absolute diehard confidence in myself.

JH: Love it.

KS: I wish I could still like tap into that right now.

JH: Do you rhyme pain with chain?

KS: You know what? Probably. Love sent from up above? You best believe it.

KG: Musicians Kimberly Sunstrum and Jon Hynes sharing some of their earliest attempts at songwriting with "Ottawa Morning" host Robyn Bresnahan. As you heard, that's the concept behind the latest album by Tegan and Sara. On "Hey, I'm Just Like You," the Canadian pop-duo revisit and rework songs they wrote as teens.

[Music: Ambient]

Part three: Residential school deaths, Doha track meet, China pork shortage

Residential school deaths

Guest: RoseAnne Archibald

KG: It is painful enough to understand the number of children who died. Now, we also know their names. A ceremony in Gatineau, Quebec today honoured the children who died at Canada's residential schools. And during a particularly poignant moment, a group of people entered the ceremony holding a fifty-metre-long red cloth, displaying the names of two-thousand eight-hundred children who died. Those names are the result of years of research by the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation. The centre says there are still another 1,600 children who died, and who remain unnamed. RoseAnne Archibald is the Ontario Regional Chief of Taykwa Tagamou First Nation. Her sister died at a residential school in the early 1960s. We reached Chief Archibald in Cochrane, Ontario.

CO: Chief Archibald, what does it mean for you to know that the names of these thousands of children who died at the residential schools those names have now been released?

ROSEANNE ARCHIBALD: Well, I actually went to the website where the names are listed, and the list is incomplete, and that they were still searching for names. And one of the names missing on there is my sister, Euphemie Alexandra.

CO: You wrote about her, you were tweeting about Euphemie today. How did you learn about her? I understand you didn't know you had this sister at first?

RA: No. Between my sister Gloria and I, we had a sister named Colleen, and Colleen died I think at six weeks because her lungs weren't properly developed. So my mom had told me oh, her grave is up in Moosonee, in the Catholic cemetery, so if you want to go and find it. And I couldn't find it. So I started kind of wandering through the whole cemetery. And I came across this headstone that said Euphemie Alexandra Matthews, daughter ronique. And my mom's name was Veronica. And I thought oh, that's kind of weird. Maybe there was like another Veronica Matthews because that's how it is in the north. So I came back to Cochrane, to the house that I'm in right now, and I went to my mom's room, and I said oh, I couldn't find Colleen's gravesite. But you know, I saw this grave that said Euphemie, daughter of ronique. Is there like another Veronique or Veronica? And she just burst into tears — like, she just started to cry in that sort of low kind of wailing. Such pain was coming out of her. It was like a big dam had been released. And she said Euphemie is your sister. And she died in residential school.

CO: At what age?

RA: She was five.

CO: Five years old.

RA: Yes, she died in around 1962. So I wasn't even born yet. And so she kept it inside because it was so, so painful for her. And so she and my dad — they were just newly married — made a vow that they wouldn't talk about it because it was too painful. And so it was this family secret that I stumbled upon.

CO: Did she learn, or do you have any idea what happened to Euphemie Alexandra? How did she die at the age of five?

RA: Well, my mother had moved to Moosonee to get work. So she had left Euphemie with my grandmother. And when the Indian agent came, they took her to residential school at five years old. And my mom didn't know. So the story she got back was that Euphemie got sick very quickly, and she died there. And my mom was told later the way she described it was her mother knew — my grandma knew — and they had a hard time tracking her down. And when they did, I think they might have already buried her. I can't remember the exact details, but it was just so heartbreaking for my mom to learn that here she was going to make a better life for herself and her kids. And one of her children had died.

CO: And when you think how many times this story is played out, how many instances of this, when you today, we saw the names of 2,800 children who died — every single one of them a story of this kind of grief and pain. But we know 4,200 children never returned from residential schools, and all kinds of details we've been getting since the investigations of the residential schools — just every single one of them a tragic story like this, aren't they?

RA: Yeah, and you know my mom also lost a brother in residential school. And so I went searching for his name on the list, and he's not even on the list. And you know my mom, she passed away nine years ago. And I think it would have been hard for her to hear that there was a list, and then for her to then find out that her daughter's not even on that list. So there's a lot of real heartbreak around residential schools. There's a lot of what I call intergenerational trauma. Even though I didn't go to residential school, her loss, and that loss for my mother resonates in me. It's something that I carry. And essentially, 100 per cent of First Nations people suffer from intergenerational trauma. If not directly from residential school, than from the overall colonization process. And so we really have to start to turn a corner on that, and start talking about how do we heal that? And part of that is really talking to people, our allies out there, our non-Indigenous allies, people who really care about this. Io stand shoulder-to-shoulder with us to say we have to do something about this. We have to make sure number one, this never happens again, and we have to figure out how we all can heal from this.

CO: And as you say, the numbers are 150,000 children were taken from homes, put in residential schools, and exposed to all kinds of punishments, to deprivation, and torture. They were experimented on. And at the very least, were denied the love and comfort of their parents. And over all those generations, your sister was not on the list. When do you think we will see a complete list, and names, and identities, and the stories of all these children?

RA: Well, we might not. I mean you know, for example, as I was saying, my mom had passed away without being able to tell that story, so I'm telling her story. And some of these deaths go back to the 1800s. And those people aren't around anymore. So we may never really know the complete picture and every single name of every child that didn't make it out of residential school alive, and that's really tragic. To me, that's very tragic.

CO: Chief Archibald, this is such a tragic story, and I appreciate you would share it with us. Thank you.

RA: Thank you very much. I really appreciate being able to tell it.

CO: Bye-bye.

RA: Bye.

KG: RoseAnne Archibald is Ontario Regional Chief, of Taykwa Tagamou First Nation. We reached her in Cochrane, Ontario.

[Music: Sombre]

Doha track meet

Guest: Ben Bloom

KG: It was hot in Doha this weekend — really hot. 32 degrees, and approaching 80 per cent humidity — hot. So perhaps it's no surprise that more than a third of runners who competed in the women's marathon at the World Athletic Championships this weekend dropped out. But perhaps that's the point. Organizers might have predicted these conditions. And yet, here they are, staging their event in one of their world's hottest countries. The same country scheduled to host the 2022 FIFA World Cup. Ben Bloom is an Athletics Correspondent for the Daily Telegraph and we reached him in Doha.

CO: Ben, I know that it's late at night for you in Doha. Just how hot is it right now?

BEN BLOOM: [slight chuckle] Right now, it's about 30 degrees centigrade. But the hardest thing at this time of night is it's about 80 per cent humidity. It really saps the energy out of you.

CO: So if it's sapping the energy out of journalists who are just sitting there watching, I can't imagine what it's doing to let's say for these women marathoners over the weekend. These are tough women. What was it like to see nearly 30 world-class athletes drop out of that event?

BB: Honestly, it was probably one of the most distressing sights I've seen covering sport. These are women at the peak of physical fitness, and they were literally falling. They were reaching the end of their limit, and falling onto the road, and lying there and having to be taken off by stretcher. It was a horrible sight — a sight that I don't think should have been allowed to happen at all. Sport is about pushing yourself, but it's not about pushing yourself to the point where 29 people are falling over, and lying there prone on the floor, and having to be structured away and taken to a medical tent. That's not what sport is about, for me.

CO: The Kevin Mayer, who said that it was a catastrophe. He said it was they had turned the athletes into guinea pigs to see what it was like to see people try to run in 31 degrees temperatures with high humidity.

BB: Yeah, he's a senior figure in athletics, and he used this position to I think articulate what a lot of athletes that I've spoken to have been saying. They've been privately all of the athletes are sort of sick of having to deal with what they're being asked to deal with here. They just can't fulfill their talent, really. This is the pinnacle of their sport, their career, their careers are short, and they're having to deal with things that just aren't helping them.

CO: They're also I guess the events that are indoors where it's air conditioned have stands for people — for spectators — that are almost empty. Why is that the case?

BB: Qatar has no real culture for going to watch live sport. And it's not a particularly easy place for many people to get to around the world, so there aren't as many travelling fans as would be normally. And the stands and empty, even with half of them with a big banner on top of them. So actually only half of the stands are available to buy tickets, and they're still empty.

CO: What effect does that have on athletes to be doing their victory laps to near empty stadiums, to have nobody watching or cheering them on? What effect does it have on them?

BB: It's incredibly disheartening. I spoke to one athlete tonight, who when she competed at the last world championships, she said she made sure she didn't look in the crowd because she didn't want to be distracted by so many people and so much noise. And she said she did the same thing tonight in Doha because she didn't want to be distracted by looking up and thinking I'm just about to perform at the highest possible level, and no one's watching me. So it's incredibly disheartening for them. As they say, there's nothing they can do. They go out they run, they jump, they throw, there's nothing they can do about it other than hope it moves to somewhere that appreciates them a bit more next time.

CO: Of course, a lot of people were already saying that Doha was the wrong place for these World Championships from the time that it was first chosen. So what's the International Association of Athletics Federations, what are they saying in defence now of the decision to hold these championships in Doha?

BB: Their main defence is they want to globalize the sport. They want to take it to new destinations, new countries. They want to expand it. It can always be held in North America and Europe. And it's a valid point. I think there are plenty of other places like Africa. There has never been a World Championships in Africa. Australia, places like that. There hasn't been one there for a long time. There are other places that they could have gone to rather than the Middle East that would have appreciated it a fair amount more.

CO: Of course, on top of everything else, potential for scandal and corruption that's now being investigated by French judges. What can you tell us about this latest ordeal?

BB: Yeah, well there's been murmurings and rumors ever since Qatar was successful in its bid to host these championships. And on the eve of the championships, a story broke that a suspicious sum of money — 4.5 million dollars — was proposed to be transferred between the Doha organizing committee — or someone closely associated with — to someone very high up in the IAAF. The same the same rumors that swirled around this athletics event have swirled around the FIFA World Cup as well ever since they were successful in bidding for that. As far as I'm aware, currently, there is no concrete evidence like the 4.5 million dollar payment. But that doesn't mean that there aren't people looking into it. There are certainly concerns about how it happened. Because let's be honest, it's a very, very strange place to hold a football World Cup.

CO: Right, it seems like a very, very strange place in many ways. Because you tweeted just recently that you're doing a lot of reporting on the conditions, and that you'd soon stop, quote, mainly because I want to get out of the country alive. were you joking, or is there an actual concern on your part?

BB: [laughing] No, now well I think I was joking. I'm not really sure. I don't know. One of my friends messaged me, and said I think you're not going to say these things until you're safely out of the country. So it sort of made me think. But I'm sure I'll be fine, hopefully.

CO: All right. I hope so, Ben. And it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

BB: Thanks very much.

CO: Bye-bye.

BB: Bye.

KG: Ben Bloom is an Athletics Correspondent for the Daily Telegraph. We reached him in Doha. The World Athletic Championships there run until this weekend, and the men's marathon — which will also be taking place outdoors — has yet to take place.

[Music: Banjo]

FOA: Patricio Manuel

KG: Patricio Manuel has faced many challenges in his life. Now he makes a living facing challenger after challenger. And because of that, he is the new face of the boxing and fitness equipment company, Everlast. The 34-year old super-featherweight is now the first transgender boxer to be featured in an Everlast ad campaign, which focuses on inclusivity. It's not the first time Mr. Manuel has made history. In December of last year, he became the first openly trans man to compete professionally in the U.S. Not only that, but he beat challenger Hugo Aguilar in just twelve minutes. Shortly after that match, he spoke with Carol about his win, and what it took to get there. Here is some of that interview, from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

CO: Patricio, can you take us back to that moment when you stepped into the ring a few Saturdays ago, about to make history. What was that like?

PATRICIO MANUEL: You know, I know it was such a you know now seen as an historical event. But for me, it was just another fight. You know, I pretty much went through all the same mental drills, the same prep that I do for all my amateur fights before. I was just really focused on my opponent, and not so much around everything else in the event. I wasn't focused on anyone outside. It was really just me in my corner. And that's the only thing I focused on.

CO: You were competing very successfully as a woman in amateur boxing championships. You were you were winning. What made you want to transition to be a man?

PM: I realize now that I've always been a man. And it's something I didn't really give myself room to explore. It was during specifically being medically-disqualified due to a shoulder injury in the 2012 women's Olympic boxing trials that really kind of forced me to look at myself beyond me as an athlete, and for me as a whole person. And I realized that there was a big part of me that still wasn't fulfilled, despite boxing, and despite where I had landed in that career. And that was me really realizing that I've been struggling with gender dysphoria my entire life. And that I can no longer live a lie of you know competing as a woman or competing in the female division. And I realized that I needed to live my truth, and I wanted to medically transition and continue competing but in the male division. You know, I'm living my life as I'm supposed to. It's more than just boxing like this is who I am. I am a man.

KG: From our archives, transgender boxer Patricio Manuel speaking with Carol on December 20th of last year — following his first fight after transitioning to a man. Last week, boxing brand Everlast announced Mr. Manuel will feature in its new ad campaign focused on inclusivity. And you can revisit that full interview on our website, at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Instrumental]

China pork shortage

Guest: Simon Rabinovitch

KG: Pork may seem like a small thing, in the context of a nation's modern history. But much can depend on dinner. Tomorrow, the world will witness a massive celebration in China. To mark the 70th anniversary of the People's Republic, there will be a military parade, much praise for President Xi Jinping, and a week-long national holiday. But beyond the festivities are causes for anxiety for the Communist Party. There is the unrest in Hong Kong. The trade war with the United States. And then there is the strain in the pork supply caused by an African swine flu outbreak. So far, it has wiped out at least a third of the country's pigs. Simon Rabinovitch covers China for The Economist magazine from Shanghai.

CO: Simon, why is pork so central to the Chinese economy?

SIMON RABINOVITCH: Well, I guess, first of all, it's central to the Chinese diet. It's far-and-away the most important meat in China. China consumes something like 50 per cent of the world's pork. So it's a staple of the Chinese diet. So historically when pork prices have gone up, it's led to big economic concerns. It's led to inflationary spikes. So it is an economic issue for China.

CO: For people, the lower income earners in China, food is still a very, very large part of their spending. And so the prices going up has led to the Chinese government releasing about 10,000 tons of meat from its pork reserve. So what does that say about the concerns the authorities have about these rising pork prices?

SR: I mean you're absolutely right. So for low-income earners anywhere in the world, food is a bigger share of what they spend their money on. And so I think people will notice it when they go to the grocery stores, when they go to restaurants. And so for the government, there's then concern that you'll have a lot of people grumbling about why it is that pork is costing as much as it is. And so you mentioned the fact that they've tapped their national strategic pork reserves. They have roughly one million tons of frozen pork dispersed around the country that they release at moments like this. They also in some cities have begun to give direct subsidies — cash subsidies — to poorer people for buying pork. In some places they've also released limited supplies of discount pork.

CO: So we can see what effect it's having on the economy and on people's incomes. But what about politics? How does something like this — a huge spike in a staple of food for so many people — what does it do as far as challenge the government on how it's running things? How does this play out politically for Xi Jinping?

SR: Well, it's a bread and butter, or maybe a pork and butter issue I guess is a better way of putting it. And so I think when people you know go to the grocery stores, and they see their bills are going up, it's something that leads to concern and discontent. And so I think for the government you know they always, of course, want people to be content with the management of the economy and management of society. And so it's a relatively sensitive time of year now as well. China is celebrating its seventieth anniversary, then leading into a few months later we'll be getting into Chinese New Year, Chinese Spring Festival in late January — a time when families are gathered around the table — and pork is going to feature prominently. And so if prices are twice as high as they were a year earlier, that is going to be coming up in conversation.

CO: There was an interview with a Chinese historian in the New York Times just recently, and he said about the Communist Party's hold on power in China, he said the weak link is not the lack of democracy. It is the prospect of an economic downturn, or of a failure to deliver to the ordinary citizen. That could be the biggest threat. Now, of course, it's a dictatorship. No one's going to take down the government but President Xi is very sensitive, is he not right now to his ability to keep people happy, to keep the control he needs over the society.

SR: Certainly, that's been a constant throughout the last few decades, as the economy has opened up, and society has opened up as well so long as growth has been strong and people have seen their incomes continuing to rise, and therefore, their ability to afford a better standard of life. That's something which has afforded the party a certain degree of legitimacy. So I don't think that this pork inflation spiral is the beginning of a serious economic problem for China. But nevertheless, it is something which does begin to dent the credibility of the party, when on top of that you also have the trade war, you have mounting employment concerns, then you do have a recipe for much more in the way of economic concern than then really at any point in the last three decades. Now, the party does have plenty of other levers to pull as you were alluding to you know whether in terms of control of society and surveillance. But also appealing to things like nationalism and pride in how far China has come. So it's you know the economic downturn and headwinds makes all of that more complicated. But it's certainly not the end of the story.

CO: You didn't mention the protests in Hong Kong, and I wonder if that's playing out at all? If, in fact, food prices in general — these kinds of issues, the pork and butter issues — are actually are they more important to people in China than then what's going on in Hong Kong?

SR: That's a really interesting question. Now I think the party is much more concerned about what's going on in Hong Kong in the sense that you know having so many people out on the streets constantly demanding change, demanding democracy is something that the party is absolutely neuralgic about. And so the idea or the threat of that spreading into the mainland is something that they would be very, very concerned about. However, so far, the way that the News of the protests has been spreading through China — and obviously it's been given a heavy spin by the propaganda authorities — you know if anything it's led to something like a rally around the flag effect, where people are supporting a party, and are not supporting the Hong Kong protesters. Whereas with pork prices, you know I don't think it's going to be leading to people on the streets. Nevertheless, nobody is as happy about that. There's no external enemy that that can be blamed. You can blame government mismanagement and mishandling and lack of transparency. So in some ways the rise in pork prices does more to hurt the standing of the party than what's happening in Hong Kong.

CO: All right. I appreciate speaking with you, Simon. Thank you.

SR: My pleasure. Thank you.

KG: Simon Rabinovitch covers China for The Economist magazine from Shanghai.

[Music: Jazz]

FOA: Stadium urinals

KG: Whenever Russ Tiffin visits a different major league baseball stadium, he takes a little piece home. The Toronto baseball fan started scooping up handfuls of dirt from diamonds around the league 10 years ago. Now, his ballpark tour is officially over — and he's collected dirt samples from 29 U.S. stadiums, Toronto's Rogers Centre, and Japan's 12 major league parks. Mr. Tiffin isn't the first baseball fanatic to travel from stadium to stadium with a small container in hand. Tom McDonald did it too — but his can wasn't empty. A couple of years ago, guest host Helen Mann spoke with Mr. McDonald about why he was carrying the ashes of his lifelong friend Roy Riegel to American ballparks...and why he was flushing his buddy down their toilets.

SOUNDCLIP

TOM MCDONALD: It’s just something that hit me. I got his ashes after he died. He died on Opening Day, 2008 — the last Mets home opener at Shea, which I thought was just an odd thing he died that day. And I got the ash from his mother, I put it in a can; I have a can like a Planter’s can, and I went to Pittsburgh. I did it by the water outside the park. And I did it in Chicago on home plate of the old park. And then we were in Minnesota, and it's indoors, before they left the Metrodome. And I can't do this inside. You know, it sounded weird to me, and I didn't know what to do. So we went to an Irish pub and had dinner. And as I went to the bathroom, I had the thing in my pocket, and it hit me I said I know what to do. And I just did it. I just poured and flushed it. I said boy, he'd get a kick out of that. That’s my friend Roy. He was a plumber. Anyone else it would seem like it's terrible… what are you doing flushing your friend. But no, for Roy it's perfect. Everyone in the old neighbourhood, they can't stop laughing. I told them I said you know what I've been doing? And like I said, I haven't actually done for a little bit. I did Citi Field the other week because we were going there. I hadn't done that because I've been on a road, and I rubbed some into Shea Stadium at home plate in the parking lot. I have enough to do maybe one more when we go to we're going to go to Durham, North Carolina.

HELEN MANN: Yeah, so you got the ashes from his mother. What does she think? What does the family think?

TM: grew up with him. You know, I’ve known him since I was eight years old. She’s the only mother that actually called Porky since I was a kid. I went in and he was in a package. She gave me a spoon, and said here.

HM: She was okay with the ballpark. She's okay with the toilets?

TM: Yeah, I talked to her. Yeah, I told her I did it. I knew she'd get a kick out of it. But then before I put the story, I called her. She said Proky, I know you. You do it, Roy would like it. I trust you. And she did. I called his younger brother, Hank, and I said right? I'm not dreaming here, right? And he said no, absolutely. Roy would love that. And he would. Somewhere, he’s roaring laughing at this.

KG: From our archives, that is Tom McDonald speaking with As It Happens in May 2017.

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September 30, 2019 episode transcript

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