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The AIH Transcript for September 02, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: The original cause is no longer the only cause. Months after an extradition bill sent thousands into the streets of Hong Kong, it's off the table — but our guest says that won't stop the protests.

CH: Blonde-sided. British PM Boris Johnson faced failures at every turn today — and even a member of his own party says he feels his new leader's been more appalling than appealing.

CO: He was outspoken; now, he's just out. The Liberals say they sacked Hassan Guillet because of comments about Israel, but the former imam says he's not a racist — and his comments weren't a surprise to the party.

CH: Colour coordinated. The NDP loses 14 former New Brunswick candidates to the Greens — along with a worker who says the party failed to address his warnings that some voters were uncomfortable with a leader who's Sikh.

CO: And now, our fetcher presentation. Turns out humans don't just change dogs' appearance with breeding, and ill-advised bandanas — a Harvard prof says we've also re-shaped their brains.

CH: And...the village idiom. Last night Carol spoke with a linguist who's compiled a glossary of slang specific to Ontario -- and then we heard from some who quibbled with her choice of words.

As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that will address your slang concerns — so don't touch that dial-ect.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Hong Kong bill pulled, Hassan Guillet, dog brains

Hong Kong bill pulled

Guest: Agnes Chow-Ting

CH: It's been almost three months since people in Hong Kong first took to the streets, calling on the government to withdraw a controversial extradition bill. Today, that wish was finally granted — when the region's chief executive, Carrie Lam, vowed to do just that. But after weeks of demonstrations, and hundreds of arrests and injuries, that in no longer enough — the protests aren't going to stop. Agnes Chow-Ting is a member of the pro-democracy group Demosisto. We reached her in Hong Kong.

CO: Ms. Chow-Ting, when you heard Carrie Lam make this speech today, saying she would finally withdraw this extradition bill, what was your reaction?

AGNES CHOW-TING: I would say it is too late. And not enough because what Hong Kong people have been fighting for now since June. But after three months, after many of our friends have committed suicide, after Hong Kong citizens were being arrested, many of them got injury, etc. It was really too late. CO: What they wanted was to see this extradition bill withdrawn, and that's actually been done now. So do you see this at least as a partial victory?

ACT: I will not say it as a victory. Although we fought for the withdrawal of the extradition law, it is not our only goal. So that's why especially when we see that the violence of the police and also of the government keeps escalating in three months, the anger of many Hong Kong citizens have been raised. And we wills still keep on fighting for the other four demands.

CO: And among those other four demands, you are demanding that there should be an independent investigation into how the police have responded, and the force the police have used in breaking up and attempting to break up these demonstrations. Carrie Lam has also said that she will add two new members to an existing police watchdog agency called the Independent Police Complaints Council and that she believes that is an answer to that other demand. What do you say to her on that?

ACT: It's just totally not the demands of Hong Kong people. Because even though the job of that council is to monitor the behaviour of police, that council actually doesn't have any legal power to effectively monitor the police force. You know the police force has no obligation to obey the council — that's why the council is kind of useless, I would say.

CO: One of the other demands is that you want an amnesty for those protesters who have been arrested. Has Carol Lam or as anyone in the government told you what is happening with the people who are still incarcerated in Hong Kong?

ACT: Well, within this movement, there are already more than 1,000 people who were arrested and I am also one of the 1,000 people. And many protesters, after they were being arrested, they are treated in a violent way or in an unfair way by the police. So we could see that the government keep using the Hong Kong Police Force as a political tool to arrest protesters and try to kind of threat this sense of fear to let people not join the movement.

CO: The original issue being this extradition bill, which would allow China to order the extradition of people from Hong Kong. We have seen throughout your protests the hand of China, and heard the voice of mainland China urging the end of these protests and urging very, very strong reaction to it. Do you think that Carrie Lam has any authority to do more than she is doing?

ACT: Well, I would say that, of course, in the past years — even before this movement — the Beijing government keeps on destroying autonomy of Hong Kong by interfering in the internal affairs or even policies in Hong Kong. And we know that the chief executive and the Hong Kong government is kind of the puppets of the Beijing government — that they have to listen to their orders. But Carrie Lam, as a chief executive, she has a great responsibility to solve this political problem. Like, for example, Carrie Lam has the authority to call the police to do things in a fair way or to stop abusing power to use violence over protesters. But she chose not to do this.

CO: At the same time, the warnings from China and well we've seen demonstrations of police and security troops preparing for something, we've heard all kinds of statements out of China that are quite threatening. Why do you think China has not intervened at this point? They keep drawing the line and then they don't act. Why do you think that's the case?

ACT: I would say that the Beijing government keep using different ways to interfere Hong Kong's internal issue, actually. You know in the event in the past year like you know by the reinterpretation of basic law, etc. Or by kidnapping some of the people they don't like. Spreading the sense of fear by telling Hong Kong people they could send troops into Hong Kong. But they still have a lot to consider exactly the relationship between U.S. and China. That you as you know also have to consider the special status of Hong Kong that we have a lot of capital information and people from all around the world — including we have a lot of capital in Hong Kong also. So they need to consider a lot before they send troops into Hong Kong.

CO: We, of course, will be following what's going on in Hong Kong very closely, Ms. Chow-Ting. And I appreciate speaking with you today. Thank you.

ACT: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye-bye

CH: Agnes Chow-Ting is a pro-democracy activist in Hong Kong — which is where we reached her.

[Music: Piano]

Hassan Guillet

Guest: Hassan Guillet

CH: The Liberals say they're done with Hassan Guillet. But the former imam isn't done with the Liberals. The party dropped Mr. Guillet as a candidate in a Montreal-area riding over the weekend. They made the move shortly after the Jewish human rights group B'nai Brith accused Mr. Guillet of anti-semitism, citing comments he had made online and in interviews. But today Mr, Guillet held a press conference. He denied the accusations of anti-semitism -- and insisted that his past comments couldn't have come as a surprise to the Liberals. We reached Hassan Guillet in Montreal.

CO: Mr. Guillet, the Liberal Party of Canada says your comments were, quote, insensitive, and they don't align with Liberal values. What do you say to your former colleagues?

HASSAN GUILLET: First of all, these comments were more than two years ago, and all of us evolved. And second, when I’ve been in discussion with the Liberal Party since 2017, and my comments were public, my Facebook was public, and I wasn't very prolific on Facebook. So checking these at that time, it would have been maybe taking one hour or two. So I don't know why they didn't do that due diligence?

CO: Wait a second, but sir, you're blaming the Liberals? I mean did you alert them to any of the postings you had put on social media?

HG: Honestly, I did not know that these posting are problematic at the time. If, at that time, I knew that they were sensitive or they will be problematic, I wouldn't publish them — period.

CO: Okay. But you say you’ve evolved over two years. Two years isn't a lot of time.

HG: Well, you see all the kinds of work I did. And it's not linear period of time. It's a time of trial. I don't know if you remember my speech at Quebec City, when I said in front of an audience of 6,000 people — including the widows and the orphans. And in that speech, I said our lives after the 29th of January 2017 should be completely different.

CO: Just for people, you're referring to and meant not just in Quebec, Canadians were deeply moved by your remarks that followed, and you're talking about the Quebec City mosque massacre. And that you showed sympathy even for the shooter in that speech.

HG: Exactly.

CO: But how are we to reconcile that openness with some of the remarks that B'nai Brith has quoted from your Facebook?

HG: Because they are quoting them out of context. Definitely, I did not see anything anti-Semite. Yes, they are lacking sensitivity. For me, anti-Semite is somebody who is anti-Jewish, okay? However, now dealing with some Jewish friend, I realize that for them they don't make a difference between anti-Zionist or anti-Semite or anti-Israeli or anti-Jews. For them it's the same.

CO: Okay, let's talk about the remarks. B'nai Brith quotes you on Facebook having written in Arabic that the Zionists control American politics. It says that you told Radio-Canada International that Jared Kushner, the son-in-law to the president of the United States — his loyalty as an advisor to Donald Trump is compromised because of his Jewish background.

HG: No, no, this is not what I said. It's cut and paste. It’s Jared Kushner is not because he's Jewish. It’s his own way of dealing with issues. His attitude toward the issues in the Middle East is far from being neutral. If you want somebody a broker of peace you need somebody to be neutral, okay? And what they said at the time, it was about Jared Kushner as a person. Not being Jewish. If I come I say Mr. So-and-so, because he's a Jew, he doesn't have loyalty to his country that is anti-Semite, and that I condemn it and I’m against it. But if somebody — a particular person — has a position regardless of his religion, regardless of his background, and if you talk about that position, you are not racist. You are not anti-Semitic.

But what B'nai Brith is saying is that these are anti-Semitic tropes because they give the suggestion that somehow Zionists or Jews control governments, and these tropes of dual loyalty of Jews. So are you aware now that these things are hurtful to Jews?

HG: Now I am aware, as I said, through dialogues with my Jewish friends that for certain Jews, it’s synonymous being anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli or anti-Zionist or anti-Semite. For them, it's synonymous. And it's not up to me to enter in the mind of somebody saying what you are thinking is wrong. So now, when I'm dealing with people, I take care of their sensitivity and their way of thinking.

CO: B'nai Brith Canada also alleges that you congratulated what Israel says is a Hamas-aligned activist when he was released from prison — from you call it the Prison of occupied Palestine. And you referred to that one day he would succeed in liberating all of Palestine. What were you talking about there?

HG: I didn't know at the time that he was allied with Hamas. When I congratulated him, he came out of jail because he was protesting, demonstrating against the closure of the Jerusalem mosque.

CO: Al-Aqsa.

HG: Al-Aqsa. And all us, we know how sensitive. As I am talking with the sensitivity of my Jewish friends, I invite everybody to be sensitive to our sensitivity too. That Al-Aqsa is sacred for all Muslims around the world. So this guy was demonstrating against the closure by the Israeli authorities to that mosque, and he was in jail for nine months. When he came out, I congratulated him. At the time, I didn't know that connection between Salah and Hamas.

CO: But Mr. Salah has made other remarks, and he has said in speeches — he's been reported to have said — that that Jews use the blood of Christian children to make bread. Were you aware that he had made remarks like this?

HG: No, I was not aware. And where these comments are anti-Semitic, racist, not acceptable, and I do not accept them.

CO: Okay. What are you asking the Liberals to do now? Now that they've told you that you can't run. They're not accepting you. What do you want to happen?

HG: Well, I mean I attended a press conference today. I am asking them to reconsider their position. I clarified my position. I apologized. And not only this, I was working with the Liberal Party for a solution. And the solution was to have meetings with some Jewish leaders. Thursday, I met some Jewish leaders. Friday morning, I spoke to my contact within the Liberal Party that our plan is working. Then, I don't know who had interests of aborting that plan. It will hurt the Jewish community. It will hurt the Muslim community. It will hurt the Canadians, and Canadian society, and Canadian values.

Dog brains

Guest: Erin Hecht

CH: Erin Hecht says that good breeding is more than just skin deep. But Ms. Hecht isn't some fancy New York socialite. She's an assistant professor in the department of Human and Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University. Professor Hecht has just published a new paper about the brains of different dog breeds. And it seems that humans haven't just bred the bodies of different dog breeds to serve different purposes — we've also re-modeled their minds. We reached Professor Erin Hecht in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

CO: Professor Hecht, what evidence do you have that different dog breeds don't just have different bodies. They also have different brains?

ERIN HECHT: So in this study, we looked at MRI scans from dogs that came to a veterinary clinic for an examination and turned out to be healthy. And we compared the brain anatomy across different breeds of dogs. So we wanted to see if brain anatomy was different across different breeds. And then if so, what accounts for that difference? Is it body size, is it head shape, or could it be attributed to behaviour? And we found that appears to be the case. It seems like selective breeding for behaviour has shaped dogs brain anatomy.

CO: How significantly different are dogs brains?

EH: This is one of the few times in science when I looked at the raw images and just known that there was going to be something there — even before doing statistics. So you can actually see these differences if you just look at the scans themselves. Of course, we did more complex analysis and you know we did statistics. But they are, to me, it seems pretty remarkably different.

CO: But I mean is it purely explained by the fact that dogs are bred differently? Many dogs were bred to work — to have a specific purpose. Is it just based on that? Or is it more than that?

EH: So I think it's a combination of multiple factors. So one thing is that we've bred them for different head shapes, and that has affected brain anatomy. But we've also bred them for different specialized behaviours — like you just mentioned. It does look like we can see the trace of those behaviours in their brain anatomy. So there are some circuits in the brain that seem to be linked to particular classes of behaviour like herding or hunting. So yeah, it does seem like that type of selective breeding has impacted their brain anatomy.

CO: Okay, so their brains are wired differently for functions like hunting or herding or whatever. But, at the same time, some of them have different sizes. I mean are some dogs just smarter than other dogs because of brain size?

EH: Brain size it does vary across dogs, but not as much as you would think. Chihuahuas are like you know really tiny compared to the size of a Great Dane. Their brains are not proportionally that much tinier, so there's less variation in brain size than you might expect based on the variation in body size. And as for which breed is the smartest, I think that this research suggests that there are multiple different types of canine intelligence, and that different breeds of dogs are specialized for different types of intelligence.

CO: Is there such a thing as a dumb dog?

EH: [laughing] I'm pretty sure I've met them. But you know I think in animal research, it gets tricky when you try to measure something like intelligence. Because the answer that you get depends on how you define it and what kind of test you make up to test it. That's a tricky question that probably will never have an answer.

CO: [slight chuckle] Okay, it's an unfair question. But when you look at the size of dogs, so I mean a little Chihuahua — I guess the smallest dog in the world is supposed to be a Chihuahua who's only four inches tall. And then there’s these big giant Newfoundlands. So all these dogs they're bred for different purposes. Would you see a big difference between not just in size but in wiring between a chihuahua and a Newfoundland?

EH: It looks that way. So, like I said, the findings are preliminary. This is just the first study to look at whether there is variation in brain anatomy at all. I don't want to get at too confident yet about specific differences between specific breeds. But it does look that way that selective breeding for behaviour seems to influence different breeds’ brain and enemy in different ways.

CO: A lot of dogs that were bred for specific purposes like the hunting and the herding — a Border Collie or a Beagle — so many of them become family pets because they're really nice dogs. And they just they don't have those jobs anymore, and you do see them… a Border Collie is just sitting around and not getting that same workout. The Beagle, same thing they don't seem to have much interest in hunting anymore. They're not they're not sent out to do that.

CO: So do things change if these dogs who are that are bred for these specific purposes, over generations, does it change again?

EH: Yeah, that's a really good point. I'm so in this study, the dogs that we had, as far as we know, were all just family pets. They weren't actively working. The differences that we were able to pick up on are the differences that were still there, despite the fact that these weren't working dogs. Now, in our current research, we are looking at dogs that are actively doing that jobs that the breed was created for. We're thinking that we might see even more pronounced differences.

CO: So you're comparing let’s say the brain of a Border Collie who's out doing the job and the one who's on the couch and doesn't have a job.

EH: Exactly, yeah.

CO: And you might see profound differences in how their brains are wired.

EH: Yeah, so we're hoping to look both between breeds. So if we get you know 50 Border Collies, what is the amount of variation we see within Border Collies? How is that linked to skill at herding? And how does this compare to say 50 Beagles?

CO: We know what people want now mostly from the dogs. They want a loyal, loving pet who's good with kids, right? So do you think that this continuing evolution of these dogs will be in that direction?

EH: Probably. So if we are selectively breeding them for that behaviour, then I think it's reasonable to think that we will start you know continue to change their brains. And the way that they're being changed now is maybe more related to family pet life then to working life.

CO: All right. Well, go home and hug your dog. Professor Hecht, thank you.

EH: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

EH: Bye.

CH: Erin Hecht is an assistant professor in the Human and Evolutionary Biology department at Harvard University. We reached her in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Her research on dog brains was published in the Journal of Neuroscience.

[Music: Ambient]

LR: Ontario slang

CH: The bugs are fierce "on the slime" so you better bring some "fly dope" to the "bush party". I must have said that exact sentence a hundred times while I was growing up in Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario. But if you didn't take my meaning, according to Sali Tagliamonte, it probably means you grew up in a different province. Ms. Tagliamonte is a linguist and professor at the University of Toronto. Last night, she told us about her database of Ontario slang, called the Ontario Dialects Project. After that interview, many of you called Talkback with your own regional slang.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: A connecting beep]

CALLER: Hi, this is Christina Lopez calling from Winnipeg. Two words that it seems have been completely replaced by other terms are: thongs and I'm not referring to the undergarment. I'm referring to what for the last 15 years or so people for some reason have started calling flip flops. They were when I was a kid at the beach they were called thongs. The other one is: kangaroo. No one calls a sweatshirt with the hood and pockets in the front anymore, no one calls it a kangaroo. Who on earth started calling it a hoodie? It's a kangaroo.

[Sound: A connecting beep]

CALLER: Yeah, my name is Noah Armstrong from Vancouver. I've been listening to CBC since its inception in about 1935, I guess. Here's a list of expressions: get lost, gadzooks, absolute hogwash, for Pete's sake, holy smoke.

[Sound: A connecting beep]

CALLER: Deb Gibson calling from the northern Bruce Peninsula. You can tell and Ontarian of a certain age if they know what it means to hork a loogie. Hork a loogie.

[Sound: A connecting beep]

CALLER: Hello, my name is John Huggins. I'm originally from Timmins, Ontario. One of my favourite Canadian words is duzh. If you drive your aluminum boat too fast into a rock, you get a duge. If you are walking through a tire shop too fast, you may get a duzh in your forehead from a trailer hitch on a truck. I have no idea how to spell the word duzh. And I'm hoping maybe you can help me out.

CH: I’ve said it a bunch of times, but I’m not quite sure how to spell it. But it's sounds like too many "duzhs" may leave you laid up on the "chesterfield."

CO: The chesterfield, I asked about the origins of that one last night — and many of you didn't couch your feelings by speaking. Susan Christou emailed to say, quote: "Not sure why Ontario residents think they have a monopoly on certain words and expressions! I am a Westerner, having lived in both Alberta and British Columbia — chesterfield, sofa, couch, are all used out West. Just saying." Out East, Beverly Wood wrote: "Chesterfield is not an original Ontario slang. I grew up using 'Chesterfield' living in Newfoundland." And on Twitter, The Psammead added: "We always had dinner at noon and supper at night — sometimes pigs-in-blankets on the chesterfield."

CH: And, finally, in no particular order, some other highlights included: "no guff!"; "kit-and-kaboodle"; "necking" — as in making out; "a booter" — like "a soaker" but when you get water in your rubber boots; and "a bunny hug" — as in a kangaroo, as in hooded sweatshirt.

CO: Okay, thanks to everyone who contacted us. Now, I’m sure there’ll be more.

CH: I hope so.

CO: To join the conversation, find us on Twitter and Facebook, both: @cbcasithappens. Our email is aih@cbc.ca. And we always love to hear from you: 416-205-5687.

[Music: Up-tempo]

Part two: Brexit latest, New Brunswick NDP/Green

Brexit latest

Guest: Roger Gale

CH: Boris Johnson is facing an uncomfortable holding pattern — not to mention uncomfortable divides within his own party. Today, the UK's Prime Minister called for an early election in the House of Commons. That vote failed. The opposition Labour Party says it supports calls for an early election — but its members won't vote yes until they know for certain that the UK won't crash out of the EU without a deal, before the October 31st deadline. Earlier in the day, opposition MPs passed a bill to make sure that a no-deal Brexit is not an option for the UK. Now, they're waiting for the House of Lords to consider the bill, so it can be passed into law. Sir Roger Gale is exhausted by it all. He's a long-time Tory MP. He voted against that opposition bill — but he's not Boris Johnson's biggest fan, either. We reached him earlier today in London, UK.

CO: Sir Roger, can you explain to us why you decided not to vote with other MPs, who want to ensure that the United Kingdom will not crash out of the European Union without a deal?

ROGER GALE: Quite simply, well, I want a deal. And I believe a deal is achievable. You cannot remove from the prime minister the final negotiating tool. If we go down the road of saying there will be no no-deal, then the prime minister has no leverage at all. At the end of the day, if all else fails, we leave the European Union without a deal. Because, at the end of the day, that is how it has to be.

CO: And you're okay with that?

RG: It's not ideal, but I still believe that a deal is achievable. Time is very short between now and the 31^st of October, but it can be done. And I don't want to see even this prime minister's position weakened. So while I have a huge respect for some of my colleagues took an alternative view, and I'm deeply saddened that they've had the whip removed, I believe that's the right thing to do in this instance was to maintain the status quo and to give the prime minister and his negotiating team the elbow room that they need to try to get the deal across the line.

CO: But isn't that a real leap of faith on your part and anyone who supports Boris Johnson in this? I mean he says okay, I need this for negotiating. But part of the negotiating is to say he's willing to crash out on Halloween without a deal. So there are real consequences for that. Why do you trust him? Why do you trust that Boris Johnson is in good faith able to negotiate something with European Union?

RG: There are potentially huge consequences for both the United Kingdom and indeed for the European Union in terms of economies, in terms of security. But the British people have voted to leave the European Union. It's not something that I voted for, but the people have. And, at the end of the day, if no deal is achievable, then it will be no-deal. But I believe that if negotiations are carried out on both sides in good faith, then a deal is still achievable. And I hope that's what will happen. And I hope that the prime minister will be able to bring it back to the house get it through.

CO: What does the evidence you have that Boris Johnson actually has this relationship that can close the deal?

RG: Up to a point, we have to trust our prime minister. I don't believe that Mr. Corbyn is particularly well informed about the internal workings of either Downing Street or the Conservative Party. I have said very clearly indeed today that I reserve my position. We will see what happens. But I think now is not the moment to rock the boat. And we have to hope and believe that even now at this late stage there is some goodwill left that might with a bit of fine-tuning of the withdrawal agreement get that deal across the line.

CO: As you know, 21 of your Conservative colleagues have broken ranks with the party, and they support this bill opposing a no-deal Brexit. Last night, they were swiftly kicked out of your party. So what do you say to Boris Johnson about how he's treating those Tory colleagues for whom you said you have great respect?

RG: I have said personally to the prime minister this evening that I believe that they have been treated disgracefully by his chief of staff, who was foul-mouthed, abusive, and acted in a way that I believed to be wholly inappropriate. And I said to the prime minister that rebounds on him. And he was courteous, and he took that point and said he would look into it. These are people with whom I have worked over in some cases 36 years in the House of Commons. These are not mad people. They're not headbangers. They're not people who are beyond the pale. They are dedicated Conservatives, and they deserve respect.

CO: Can you remind us what choice words you had for Dominic Cummings — the senior adviser to Boris Johnson?

RG: I described him as an unelected, foul-mouthed oaf, and I stand by that.

CO: These Tory colleagues who are being treated so badly, and who are sacrificing possibly their political careers to take this position. They're doing this with heart and with passion. Do you think that's possible that they're right, and you're on the wrong side of history?

RG: Look, this is not an exact science. I'm not going to pretend that I've got all the answers — god, if I had, I'd be the prime minister. This is a genuine difference of opinion. They believe in one approach. And, indeed, I respect their duty to express that view if that is what they genuinely believe. The prime minister did indicate that while he is not prepared to countermand his chief whip, he wants them back in the fold. If we're going to go into a general election, we as a broad church — which is what the Conservative Party has always been — need those people back in the fold. If we turn into a right-wing rump — a sort of provisional wing of the Brexit party — then we're finished as a party. That is not the party that I joined. It's not the party that I want to be a member of. I would never join any other party. And we have to find a way of healing the party so that we can fight the general election that I think is now inevitable, and win it well.

CO: But if Boris Johnson does not let those dissident Tories run — if he excludes them — then will you still run?

RG: I shall fight the next election.

CO: Even if your Tory colleagues you said, you the broad church is the most important part of it. If he doesn't let those your Tory colleagues who are opposing this, if Boris Johnson doesn't let them stand for election, will you still be willing to run?

RG: Well, I'm not going to assist my colleagues by removing myself from the field. You fight your battles from within. But people know how I feel. And they know what I stand for. And they know what I believe in.

CO: You say that you're putting your faith in Boris Johnson. He is not showing his cards. He's not showing what he might be negotiating or trying to negotiate. At what point do you need to see that he actually has cards in his hand?

RG: Well, you say I am putting my faith in Boris Johnson. That is perhaps slightly over egging it. [CO laughs] What I said is I believe that he has to be given the room to maneuver and do the job. There’s going to come a time in mid-October when he's going to have to indicate whether or not he's got a deal. And at that point, those of us who find ourselves in conflicting positions will have to exercise our judgment and consider our positions. But that is for then, not now.

CO: Sir Roger, I really appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you.

RG: You're welcome.

CH: Sir Roger Gale is a long-time Tory MP. We reached him earlier today in London.

[Music: Instrumental]

Chrystia Freeland

CH: To say that Canada's relationship with China is "complicated" right now would be an understatement. Between extradition requests and detained Canadians — things haven't exactly been warm between the two countries — something hindered even more given Canada has been without an ambassador to China since January. Well, today, the federal government appointed Dominic Barton to the post. Mr. Barton serves as an economic advisor to Ottawa — and worked in consulting at the firm McKinsey & Company. In that job, he was based in Shanghai for several years. He doesn't speak Mandarin, but he does have the trust of those who hired him in this new role. Today, Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland praised Mr. Barton — and his relationship with her and the Prime Minister:

SOUNDCLIP

CHRYSTIA FREELAND: I do know Mr. Barton personally. I've known him for a very long time. As a business journalist, he was someone who I got to know, and also as a fellow Canadian, and as a fellow former Rhodes scholar. So I've known him for a long time. The prime minister knows him well as well. And one of the things that is really important in this complicated job is to have someone doing it who can pick up the phone at any time and speak directly to the prime minister, speak directly to me. Someone who has that personal connection, and a personal connection built up over time. Dominic is a person who has that level of trust — first and foremost with the prime minister, and also with me. And I think this is also an important message to China of the importance that Canada places, that the prime minister places on this difficult and critical relationship.

CH: Ms. Freeland said the government will be looking to Dominic Barton to help steer one aspect of that critical relationship wtih China, in particular.

SOUNDCLIP

CF: Of course, an issue always at the centre of any conversation we have with China or about China is arbitrary detentions of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor. These are two really brave Canadians. I am briefed on the consular visits every month. And I can say on the basis of those briefings that they're behaving with incredible dignity and resilience — as are their families. And certainly, a central part of Dominic's job will be to spend time with the families, to be involved in those consular visits, and to advocate for the two Michaels to come home.

CH: For the record, Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland today, announcing that Dominic Barton will be Canada's new ambassador to China.

[Music: Industrial]

New Brunswick NDP/Green

Guest: Jonathan Richardson

CH: The federal election call is expected any day. But even before that happens, the NDP's prospects in New Brunswick just got dimmer. The party has yet to nominate a single candidate in the province. And, yesterday, 14 of the party's former provincial candidates announced that they're leaving to join the Greens. They were joined by Jonathan Richardson, the federal party's executive member for Atlantic Canada. Mr. Richardson stirred controversy yesterday when he suggested that one of the challenges facing the NDP was the possibility of racism towards party leader Jagmeet Singh in the upcoming campaign. We reached Jonathan Richardson in Fredericton, New Brunswick.

CO: Mr. Richardson, what message did you want to send when you and the other 14 former provincial NDP candidates made this announcement yesterday?

JONATHAN RICHARDSON: Well, the statement I think was fairly clear in that in that New Brunswick the provincial NDP at least — because I can't speak for other provinces because I don't know. But for the provincial NDP that there wasn't going to be a vehicle there left anymore. But progressives across the province needed to unite. So the goal, and that's why all of them were provincial NDP members, and that's why a lot of it was more focused on the provincial NDP was to bring progressives together so that we could actually have a movement in this province.

CO: Is the problem though as you pointed out in your press conference that there is not much faith in the federal NDP leadership right now?

JR: I have zero issues in terms of the leadership of the party. Because I know they're doing exactly what their job entails them to do. And that's to go around the country and to figure out which seats they can pick up, which seats they need to maintain, and where they're going to put their resources. And, unfortunately, just for this election at least — I can't predict the future. But it's not going to be New Brunswick. So that's where that kind of decision came. Do we want to say okay, we’ll wait it out for another four years? Or do we want to start this ball rolling? And then for us anyway as we wanted to keep the ball rolling.

CO: What's your evidence that they've sort of given up on New Brunswick?

JR: Well, first, they don't have any candidates here. So that would be the first part. But a being a member of the election planning committee, and being on the federal executive, I do know what the focus is of the party. And a lot of that has to do with larger metropolitan areas, different multicultural regions. And that's just building on the strength of where the party is strong and whether the leader is strong.

CO: But as you've pointed out, elsewhere the NDP leader Jagmeet Singh has not been in New Brunswick ever since he became the leader of the party. What do you make of that?

JR: Well, I don't make much of it because I've met him several times. So I know him not on a personal level, but I know him as a leader. But I think that some of the members and some of the candidates while they're watching the leader go to every province if this is the only province that he's kind of skipping over, then it wouldn't be insurmountable to believe that they feel left out.

CO: And that's what you've heard from them?

JR: Oh, absolutely. I think a lot of them have said you know why isn't he coming to New Brunswick? And the truth is being on the executive is different than being around the leaders team, you know? One’s the political party and one’s more the parliamentary side of things. So I don't have an answer for that. The only thing I can do is say these are the concerns that I'm hearing, and then it's brought up to the national director at that point, and then they do what they do with the information.

CO: You also said in your press conference that you have raised with them… you told them that race and the racism card is coming up in the discussions that you're having with those in the party and those around the province. What did you tell them about that?

JR: Well, as being a member of the federal executive, I believe that it is my job to listen to the membership right at the ground floor, and to give that view up to the executive so that they can go through their communications team or different views to kind of see you know what can they do to rectify those points of view or those views at that point. So my communication would have been directly with individuals with the party or MPs if they would have been involved. And I would say that this is what I'm hearing on the ground floor I said. So obviously it's not right because racism is never good, but it exists everywhere around this country.

CO: What did you tell him about the racism card being played in New Brunswick? what did you warn them about?

JR: I said that there was a misunderstanding of Mr. Singh’s religion, where his religion was coming from. Because I was hearing a lot of people referring him, for example, as being a Muslim. And so there was some confusion going on there. And there's a lot of issues in terms — especially in the northern part of the province, where they have a lot of issues with the EI protests that are going there in the black hole. Specifically around the issue of temporary foreign workers coming in, and they felt that they were taking jobs away from them. So that I'm only speculating here but I would feel like that resentment would have generalized into a broader kind of view of people from different cultures.

CO: What did you hear though on the ground as far as people's regard for Jagmeet Singh and his and his identity?

JR: Well, like I said, you know some people thought that he was Muslim. So that would have been some of the first things I would have said. Some people didn't even know that he was born in Canada. So they thought he immigrated from a different country. So some of these misperceptions that they were having about Mr. Singh you know, in my opinion, needed to be rectified quickly.

CO: Was it your feeling, and was it what you were communicating was that Mr. Singh was going to have a hard time in New Brunswick because he's a Sikh?

JR: I don't know the answer to that. I know that there was an issue. And I brought it up because I really did not want that to happen. Because obviously I was a very staunch New Democrat, and I wanted to make sure especially Acadie-Bathurst, one of our strongest holdings in New Brunswick, you know we lost it to the Liberals, but not by much. And we were looking to have a very good candidate in that area. So that's why I felt it was urgent to bring it up to that point that he should maybe come to the Acadian festivals, come to these celebrations, and be exposed inside the community.

CO: You know Charlie Angus, who sent out a tweet yesterday, he said the failure of NDP leadership to meet with New Brunswick team is serious. So he shares your concern there. but then he says the fact that some New Brunswick NDP jumped ship because they wouldn't run under a progressive leader who comes from another religion is sickening. Good riddance, go to Elizabeth May. What do you say to Charlie Angus?

JR: I say that keep listening to your political staff because I would be the exact advice that I would be giving if my party was in trouble — to have the personal attacks on people.

CO: And that's what you regard this as being?

JR: oh, of course. None of them actually read my statement to the media. They read a press release that happened from a different organisation that took away kind of the conversation about race, which had nothing to do with the actual release that we’re having. And you know now we're talking about it now. But I can be very frank in saying that not once did I talk to any of the candidates or anybody supporting the move over. And it had absolutely nothing to do with race. It had to do with more with the provincial Greens, and wanting to form a progressive movement in the province of New Brunswick.

CO: Do you think it's possible that Mr. Singh — Jagmeet Singh — didn't visit New Brunswick because he heard what you had to say about racist tendencies in New Brunswick, and he didn't want to have to confront that? He just figures that's kind of a lost cause for him?

JR: It's very possible I don't know what was going through his mind.

CO: Do you think it would have helped had he come to the province?

JR: What I do know is that especially in northern New Brunswick, like I said, they meet in small community centres. And that's the type of community that they have, they meet together. socially. So if he would have taken the time to come in and meet in these different communities, after meeting him myself, I know that that would have made a difference.

CO: Mr Richardson, we'll leave it there. And I appreciate you speak with us today. Thank you.

JR: All right. No problem. Have a good day.

CH: Jonathan Richardson is a newly-minted member of the Green Party. We reached him in Fredericton, New Brunswick. This afternoon, the Green Party leader issued a statement responding to the accusations that the former NDP members had joined the Greens because of racism on their part. It reads, quote, "some comments made by the federal NDP's executive member for Atlantic Canada, Jonathan Richardson, were taken out of context, and have led to accusations of racism against the party. One of the core values of Greens around the world is respect for diversity and human rights. There is absolutely no room for any form of discrimination in the Green Party." Unquote.

[Music: Ambient]

Rape victim statement

CH: For more than three years, she was known as "Emily Doe". But now, Chanel Miller is ready for her name, and her story, to be heard. In 2015, Ms. Miller was sexually assaulted by Brock Turner. There was widespread outrage after the judge at the trial expressed concern that prison would be too difficult for Mr. Turner — because he was a star Stanford swimmer. He ended up only spending three months in jail. Now, Ms. Miller has written a memoir, entitled "Know My Name", about what it has been like reclaiming her identity. In advance of an interview with "60 Minutes" later this month, that program released a clip of Chanel Miller reading a portion of her victim impact statement. And a warning: it includes references to sexual assault.

SOUNDCLIP

CHANEL MILLER: Your Honour, if it is all right, for the majority of this statement I would like to address the defendant directly. You don't know me, but you've been inside me. In newspapers, my name was unconscious, intoxicated woman — ten syllables and nothing more than that. I had to force myself to relearn my real name, my identity. To relearn that this is not all that I am. That I am not just a drunk victim at a frat party found behind a dumpster. Well you are the all-American swimmer at a top university — innocent until proven guilty — with so much at stake. You cannot give me back the life I had.

CH: That was Chanel Miller reading her victim impact statement from the trial for the man who sexually assaulted her.

[Music: Horns!]

Part three: Vaping illness, trucking fish

Newfoundland child advocate

CH: Earlier today, Newfoundland and Labrador's Child and Youth Advocate released a report called "A Long Wait for Change." Jackie Lake Kavanagh says the title came easily. She wrote the 120-page document at the request of the province's Nunatsiavut Inuit government. And its findings are damning. Ms. Lake Kavanagh writes that in Newfoundland and Labrador's Inuit communities there is, quote, "an undeniable and pervasive sense of fear and mistrust of child protection authorities." Unquote. She says that fear originates with a longstanding pattern, wherein child protection agents apprehend an Inuit child and promptly send them away — often far away — to receive care. Many of those children have little information about when, if ever, they'll get to return. And according to Ms. Lake Kavanagh, they're being sent elsewhere despite solutions much closer to home.

SOUNDCLIP

JACKIE LAKE KAVANAGH: We heard from young people that they don't know reasons for being removed. They don't know about plans for being returned home. There's a lot of insecurity. There's a lot of anxiety about that. And that you know the opportunities for them to be connected to their family, to their communities, to their culture are lacking. And we found that in the conversations that we had with people. And we found it in the file review. You know when the children in care on the island only one-third of them have any access to look Inuktitut — their language. That's a real problem. You know the cultural connections that they have are really, really important if they're removed from the culture. But we found that the cultural plans for the children many of them were very weak and superficial. And that's not acceptable. It's really important for the department to take stock of where all of these children are. And to make sure there are absolutely no stones unturned, no opportunities for those children to stay closer to home. Because quite frankly I think that there are. You know when we see that in so many of the Inuit communities people have come forward and said you know I'm interested in being a foster parent. I'm interested in providing kinship care, for example. When we know that there are people in communities that are interested in being a part of the solution, but that that community interest and the capacity in those communities has not been tapped into, then. I'm really concerned that there are children that are sent away from their families, their communities, their culture when there are opportunities closer to home. And I think that the department needs to take a really hard look at what the situation is. And to see where there are opportunities to place children closer to home so that they don't have this sense of disconnection.

CH: That is Jackie Lake Kavanagh, the Child and Youth Advocate for Newfoundland and Labrador. In a report released today, she says families are ready and waiting to foster Inuit children in their own communities — but are forced to wait years for the required training.

[Music: Indie rock]

Vaping illness

Guest: Dixie Harris

CH: It starts with nausea and a fever. And it can end with a trip to the E-R. Teenagers and young adults in the United States are getting very sick from something they thought was harmless: vaping. That's the common thread connecting more than 200 cases of a severe lung disease that is mystifying physicians. In Utah, Dr. Dixie Harris noticed the pattern in early August, and sounded the alarm to state health officials. Now, there are 28 cases in Utah alone — more than a dozen of which were reported by Dr. Harris herself. She's a pulmonologist with Intermountain Healthcare. We reached her in Salt Lake City, Utah.

CO: Dr. Harris, first of all, can you describe what condition these people are in when they come in to see you with this mysterious lung condition?

DIXIE HARRIS: So these patients are usually presenting to the emergency room after being sick for three to six days. Typically they have nausea and vomiting. They feel overall terrible. They're just achy all over, a lot of back aches and neck aches. High fevers. And that's when these patients present to the emergency room. Sometimes, they're short of breath. Sometimes, they're coughing. And sometimes, they're coughing up blood.

CO: But it sounds a lot like the serious case of the flu, doesn't it?

DH: In fact, most of the time when they're first seen, that's what is thought that they have the flu. Typically it's not really discovered that it's this lung disease related to vaping until they do these chest x-rays, which show these patchy clouds and the shadows, and they realize oh there's something more marked going on in the lungs.

CO: So how did you make the connection between this this mysterious lung condition and the act of vaping?

DH: So when we first evaluated the first three or four cases, we really thought that they had some form of infection in the lung. Especially when we looked at the findings on the chest x-rays and the CAT scans. And when all are evaluations turned up negative, we also then asked the patients have you had any exposures more looking for some sort of toxic exposure. Almost all our patients have had a combination of vaping THC oil and some form of e-cigarette. Not all cases have done both. but the diagnosis is made with this exposure to vaping. And we see this picture on the x-ray. And we've made sure they don't have an active infection that we should be treating differently.

CO: But people have died from this at this point, right?

DH: As far as I'm aware, I've only known of one definitive case that died in Illinois. We've had no deaths that I am aware of right now in Utah. However, typically these young adults — most of it's young adults — have been very sick. Several have almost died. Several have been treated on mechanical ventilation because of the severity of this lung illness.

CO: Why do you think that vaping is causing this?

DH: It's still a mystery to all of us. And I will tell you in Utah, we probably have 40 to 50 people doing the investigation — including experts in toxicology, experts in infectious diseases, experts in epidemiology, and we still don't have an idea of exactly what the cause is. I'll tell you that vaping, in-and-of-itself, we are learning a lot — especially the lung doctors. We're developing good literature that there are changes in the lung — the reactions in the lungs from vaping e-cigarettes. None of the cases that I've encountered have been exposed to medical marijuana. This is THC oil bought out of state at different dispensaries because recreational marijuana is legal in several of our surrounding states — including California, Colorado, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. So it's unclear what exactly is going on. The thing that we're all concerned — and all the lung doctors are concerned with — that people are putting things in a vaporous form, which means it goes deep in the lungs, and we're not exactly sure how it is affecting the lungs.

CO: You said it’s a combination of vaping substances — some THC, some e-cigarettes. Anyone who is not using THC oil who has been affected in this way?

DH: Almost all our cases here in Utah have had some vaping of THC oil, but not all of them. And some of this is relying on the patient's self-reports. And some of the vaping is done through open systems. And these patients they many times are getting the materials that they're putting in their open vaping systems from friends. So many times not even the patient is aware of everything that they're putting into their one.

CO: Well, in this country marijuana is legal. Many parts United States people can get it legally. But it's not a regulated industry, right? It's very irregular. There's all kinds of different products, different ways of consuming them, different doses. So how can those who are trying to get to the bottom of this do the research given how many variables you must be dealing with?

DH: Well, that's where it becomes very difficult. We are collecting the samples from patients. Many of the patients have given to the investigators what they're using from the devices, so actually the material they're putting in. And we're sending it to the toxicology labs in the country to try to sort out Is there some sort of toxic? The other question is there an interaction between multiple vaping apparatuses? So, for example, if a patient is vaping THC oil, and they're doing separately an e-cigarette, is there a reaction there? We have been very seriously investigating this for the past few weeks, and we still have more questions than we have answers at this time.

CO: The word is that this is becoming an epidemic, given the numbers of people who have become so seriously sick. Are you warning people? Should we tell people to reconsider vaping? What's your advice at this point?

DH: Until we have this fully evaluated, my advice at this time would be not to vape any item — whether it's THC oil, whether it's essential oils ,whether it is e-cigarettes in any kind of nicotine form. I'd recommend no vaping. Now even prior to this, we do have very good evidence that there is some damage to the lungs or some problems with e-cigarettes in-and-of-themselves. Maybe not as much as smoking cigarettes, however, we also don't have any long-term knowledge of what this vaping of all these materials can do to the lungs. The other thing to consider is many of the e-cigarettes also have flavorings in them, and that has also not been studied in a vaporous formed in the lungs that I'm aware of. Every lung doctor I speak with, we just think you shouldn't be putting these products in your lungs.

CO: All right, much to consider here. Dr. Harris, I really appreciate you speaking with us today. Thank you.

DH: Okay. You're welcome.

CO: Bye-bye.

DH: Bye.

01:01:22 - SPEAKER: M1

Dr. CH: Dr. Dixie Harris is a pulmonologist with Intermountain Healthcare. We reached her in Salt Lake City, Utah. And we've got more on that story on the As It Happens website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

FOA: Canuck the Crow

CH: It's been five days since Canuck was spotted in an East Vancouver's neighborhood. A couple of years ago that may have seemed like good news. Canuck is a crow, by the way. And he seemed like a bad one: he was known for terrorising residents, stealing knives from crime scenes, and general shenanigans. But to Shawn Bergman, Canuck is a dear friend — so dear that Mr. Bergman has offered a 10,000 dollar reward for his safe return. Last year, guest host Susan Bonner spoke with another person who had a soft spot for the crow. Tyler McLeod is a Canada Post mail carrier who had some unfortunate run-ins with Canuck — until he found a way to win him over. From our archives, here's part of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

TM: He actually flew down towards me, and I put my arm up to sort of like just cover my face. And he landed on my arm, and I was like oh, this is interesting. And this is the last thing I expected for him to land on me.

SB: I understand there might have been a peanut or two involved in this peace effort.

TM: So as soon as I embraced this whole situation I was like maybe he is like looking for something? Maybe he wants something from me? So I was like I don't know what to bring him, but someone at work was like just give him a peanut. He’ll probably end up liking you. And then I started bringing peanuts, and that actually did save me a little bit.

SB: What do you know about Canuck’s life beyond you? Where does he go when you've finished the route?

TM: I know that he has a nest. So I know he's going to his nest, and working that with Caviar, his lady bird friend.

SB: Ah. Tell us about her?

TM: Yeah, caviar is his companion. She's pretty cool. And she's also warming up to me too. I haven't been able to you know get close enough to pet her. I don't know if I really need to do that? But she seems like she's let me get close.

SB: So this is turning into a bit of a family affair for you?

TM: Yeah, and I know I know Canuck and Caviar are like hanging out in their nest together, and they're possibly using their instincts and trying to have little crow babies.

SB: And how do you feel about that?

TM: I've heard that crows pass memory through their genes. So like if they babies, maybe these babies will like already you know that I'm not a threat, and they might come around and hang out with me too.

CH: That was Canada Post mail carrier Tyler McLeod speaking with guest host Susan Bonner last year. Canuck the crow has gone missing — he hasn't been spotted since Friday.

[Music: Jazz]

Trucking fish

Guest: Nicole Gallant

CH: Fish tend not to need rides anywhere. But salmon in northern BC are about to get one. It's been more than two months since a massive landslide on the Fraser River in northern British Columbia trapped hundreds of thousands of salmon. The federal and provincial governments, along with local First Nations, have been working to move them upstream, so they can spawn. Now, they say that they can transport the salmon in trucks. Nicole Gallant is part of the Big Bar Landslide Information Team, representing the federal government. We reached her at the site of the landslide, near Lillooet, BC.

CO: Ms. Gallant, how are the salmon responding to this truck transport?

NICOLE GALLANT: We've done a small test on moving salmon through with the truck, and we're monitoring the O2 levels and cold water levels. And they have been responding well. We've only done one test, and hope to be moving forward with more trucking of salmon later this week.

CO: How many salmon do you think you'll have to track to the spawning grounds?

NG: Currently, the trucks can take about 200 salmon at a time. We have two trucks that will be moving. And it just all depends on how fast we can move the fish into the truck. And because we haven't really done it yet, I can't really give you an estimate on how many we think we'll have to move.

CO: But we're talking thousands, aren't we?

NG: Correct. With the pink and sockeye numbers that are in there, it could come up to 200,000 to 800,000 fish that we might have to move. But we are seeing some success with fish moving naturally past the slide, so that might change how many how much fish we actually have to move by hand.

CO: Okay, I’m going to ask you about that in a moment. But just think how far do you have to truck them in order to get from point A to point B?

NG: So it's about a 20-minute drive for the salmon because of the slowness. The road is quite steep and narrow. And we're just taking our time for safety of all the trucking operators and the people that will be involved moving the fish. So it's about 20 minutes.

CO: Why is it necessary?

NG: We're trying to use as many options that we can to transport fish above the slide. That's our objective with all the three different agencies that are here participating in this unified command to make sure that we get as many fish above the slide as possible. So trucking is one of the options that we have taken on to move fish.

CO: But this must be a massive rockslide to have had such an effect?

NG: Correct, it's huge.

CO: Can you describe what it looks like?

NG: It's about a five metre waterfall or drop that has been created in the Fraser River. And it has narrowed the channel immensely. Think of a whole rock cliff just falling into the river, and that's what's taking place here.

CO: It's really has had a tremendous effect on the river, and it just meant that the fish — the salmon — can't get up there. They can't get to there to get to their spawning grounds, is that right?

NG: Correct. The slide has blocked the Fraser River, and the water going over it has such a high velocity that many of the salmon are unable to swim past it without any assistance. Currently, we have opened up some channels in the in the slide area to allow free swimming passage for salmon — strong salmon species — to go through.

CO: But wouldn't that be easier to [beginning to laugh] who am I to tell you what to do here, but would it not be easier to as difficult as it is to move the rest of that that slide out of the way than to be tracking all these tens of thousands of fish upstream?

NG: You're absolutely right, it takes time. We are moving as much rock as possible with our engineers and our engineering branch, and many hydrologists, rock techs, geo techs. Looking at the different rocks that are in the landslide to move it, but it takes time. We do not have heavy equipment down there. We have to do everything by hand, and manipulate the rocks to make access. This is a work in progress, and we will continue to be doing that throughout the near future here.

CO: You have seen some salmon are getting through since you’ve been able to move the rocks and to readjust the scene, is that right?

NG: Correct. On September 1^st, we saw at our Turn Creek hydrology monitor basically the acoustics, about 31,875 fish swim freely passed that area. And that's about 40 kilometres up from the landslide itself, which means we know that many fish are making it on their own. So that's one day's account.

CO: People who are upstream expecting the salmon say at one spawning ground there are normally about half-a-million fish at this time of year. And they've actually only seen about 200 individual salmon, so this is a real crisis for the fish, isn't it?

NG: Absolutely. We've considered this a major emergency. That's why we have a unified command set up at an incident command post that's engaging all these operations to make sure that we can make the fish get through. Help a system as best we can to get back to the spawning grounds.

CO: If you didn't do that — if you if you weren't able to do that — what would happen to the salmon?

NG: You know, we do have some fish that have made it through. And we are hoping that they would be able to replenish the stocks in years to come. But we would continue to try to rebuild the stocks in the future.

CO: Ms. Gallant, thank you.

NG: Thank you. Have a great day.

CH: Nicole Gallant is a member of the Big Bar Landslide Information Team. We reached her near Lillooet, BC.

[Music: Sombre]

Powwow regalia stolen

CH: Perkins Noon's powwow regalia was a gift from his wife's uncle. But it’s more than family heirloom, it’s sacred. And now — it’s missing. Mr. Noon left the regalia at his sister's home in Wetaskiwin, Alberta — south of Edmonton — after attending the Samson Cree Nation powwow. When he returned, it was gone. Perkins Noon spoke to CBC Edmonton about his regalia — and why it's so treasured.

SOUNDCLIP

PERKINS NOON: There is more items taken, which was my bustle, my breastplate, my bells and my leggings. I was given that bustle last year by somebody who I respected. I'm Cree, but he's Blackfoot, so he transferred those feathers to me. And they’re very old feathers. They must be about 40-50 years old. So yeah, so that's why they're special to me because I know the significance they hold to that family, but also to myself and my little family, right? You go back to the old stories, Natives, my people gave their lives for feathers. That's how much they’re worth to us. Especially if they're given to you by somebody that you respect and somebody you look up to — which is why these things mean a lot to me, you know? So as a First Nations persons, we still do give our lives for these things. And that's why we stand up for Native rights, and we stand up for the wildlife that day that are being threatened. These things mean a lot to me. These feathers were given to me. They were not bought. They were not sold. They were transferred over to me. You know these feathers have come a long ways. I really want to get them back. And [deep sigh] yeah, it's kind of hard even talking about it.

CH: That's Perkins Noon, speaking to CBC's Wallis Snowdon. The Alberta man is hoping to track down his powwow regalia, after it was recently stolen from his sister's house in Wetaskiwin, Alberta.

[Music: World music]

Barn owl study

CH: When you're going out to catch and eat a vole, seems like you should wear something camouflage. So you can sneak up. You don't wear something fluorescent. The voles will see it. Also your neighbours will see it. And then you'll have to explain that you're trying to catch and eat a vole — which will be a whole thing. Now, scientists figured the same idea would apply to barn owls, which hunt voles for a living. There are two kinds of barn owls: ones with reddish-brown plumage, and ones with white plumage. You'd figure the darker, less-visible ones would be more effective vole hunters. But the data showed that, the closer to the full moon it got, the less effective the reddish-brown barn owls were at snagging their prey. And the more effective the white ones became. So, in a normal experiment, the scientists got some taxidermied barn owls — some reddish-brown, and some white. And they sent those stuffed owls down a zipline toward some unsuspecting voles. Well, All the stuffed owls made the voles briefly freeze in terror. But when the scientists simulated bright moonlight, the voles froze a lot longer when a white stuffed barn owl was zipping toward them. A full five seconds. Long enough to ensure they'd be dinner. Seems the white owls' reflective plumage is a major advantage in the moonlight. It freaks the voles right out, which is a surprise. Turns out stuffing a few owls showed how those owls stuff themselves.

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August 04, 2019 transcript

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