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The AIH Transcript for July 30, 2019

Hosts: Rosemary Barton and Angeline Tetteh-Wayoe

ROSEMARY BARTON: Hello, I’m Rosemary Barton, sitting in for Carol Off

ANGELINE TETTEH-WAYOE: Good evening, I'm Angeline Tetteh-Wayoe. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

ATW: Tonight:

RB: Just a couple of campers low on gas. That's what two young men told a First Nations safety officer eight days ago at a check stop — but since then, they've become the most infamous fugitives in the country.

ATW: Highway robbery. The woman behind a campaign to help victims of human trafficking says the best place to do that may be at roadside rest stops — where drivers taking a break from the highway can make all the difference.

RB: This time it's also personal. Another major security breach of a credit card company, this time involving more than 100 million people — and this time allegedly involving an engineer who admitted her crimes online.

ATW: Speak softly or carry a big tick. A giant version of the already-awful regular tick has migrated north into the Netherlands — and it's much better at hunting humans than its dumb, smaller cousin.

RH: Oh lovely! Shuffling off this mortal collar. If that sounds like an overly intellectual way to describe the passing of a dog named Chaser, you should know that the late border collie was known as "the world's smartest dog".

ATW: And...pride cometh before a phallus. Stirred by patriotism, a Dublin woman starts a successful, last-minute crowdfunding campaign to repatriate an important Irish relic: an antique ivory sex toy.

ATW: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that salutes a top-drawer effort to get a bottom-drawer item.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: BC murder suspects, Capital One Breach, Chaser obit

BC murder suspects

Guest: Albert Saunders

ATW: In the past week, the RCMP says they've received 260 tips about two fugitives in Manitoba. But despite those tips — and the helicopters, and the search teams on foot, and the door-to-door canvassing, and the media attention — Kam MacLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky are still very much on the run. They're wanted suspects in three BC murders. But eight days ago — before they were named as suspects — Albert Saunders encountered the pair at a police check stop in Split Lake, near Gillam, Manitoba. Split Lake is a dry community, and Mr. Saunders — a First Nations safety officer — was checking cars for alcohol and drugs. We reached Mr. Saunders in Split Lake, Manitoba.

RB: Constable Saunders, take me back to eight days ago, when you spotted these two young men at this police check stop. What happened?

ALBERT SAUNDERS: Well, pretty much when I was here with a local constable, we flashed the lights. Those two guys slowed down on their vehicle they were using. And then they slowly drove by us just a little ways from the check stop.

RB: So they didn't stop at the checkpoint initially, they drove through it?

AS: Yeah.

RB: And then they stopped a little bit further down the ways.

AS: Yeah, and I told them you know you’re supposed to stop when there is a person standing outside and lights flashing? And all they said was sorry, sorry the driver was saying that to me. And the I asked him where did they come from? And he said Vancouver. And then they asked where to gas up. And the next thing I said was well, I want to do a quick search. He repeated search? Yeah, you guys drove by us. The lights were flashing. I was standing outside. And he said okay. And then that's when I noticed that they were looking at each other. The passenger was looking at his driver. And I told him you can go ahead, but I didn't think nothing of it at the time.

RB: No. Well, you didn't know.

AS: Yeah.

RB: How did they seem to you?

AS: They seem paranoid, nervous, scared.

RB: What leads you to believe that? Why do you say that?

AS: Just how they were acting. They were looking at each other. Usually when I search somebody, they don't do that.

RB: And do you know now who was in the driver's seat and who was in the passenger seat?

AS: I didn't really look at the passenger, but the driver soon as I seen a picture was the guy with the mustache was the driver.

RB: At the checkpoint, you regularly go through people's cars. So I guess you did it in this case too. And what did you see in their car?

AS: Well, what I seen was that the door I looked in was kind of what looks like a suit blocking the window. In the back there was two boxes in the back. That's what I seen.

RB: Did you look in the boxes?

AS: No. Next was tell him to step out of the vehicle after I seen him doing that.

RB: And did you get them to step out of the vehicle?

AS: No.

RB: No. So there was a report that you saw survival gear and maps. Is that accurate or no?

AS: Well, actually I didn't see no survival gear or map, but it was apparently my partner.

RB: Oh, your partner saw that?

AS: Yeah.

RB: And what did you think they were doing there? What did they tell you they were doing there?

AS: They just said we’re going to gas up, and that was it. And then after that, they were heading towards Gillam.

RB: So there's a gas station in Split Lake, I guess?

AS: Yeah.

RB: And so they gassed up, and then they headed Gillam’s north of you, is that right?

AS: Yeah.

RB: So when did you find out who they actually were?

AS: The next day, in the afternoon.

RB: And how did you find out?

AS: My wife showed me a picture of him on Facebook, I think.

RB: Yeah.

AS: And then are these are two guys you guys pulled over? And I couldn't really see that picture, so I got off and looked at it again, and I said yup. I told her it was exactly that guy there. I told her to send that picture to Morgan. And that’s when we had a call in about them, and I want to go talk to Morgan about them.

RB: Morgan’s your partner?

AS: Yeah.

RB: Yeah.

AS: He said the same thing immediately. We started thinking I wonder if we told them to get out of the vehicle I wonder if something else would have happened to us.

RB: You were worried then if you had asked them to leave the vehicle.

AS: I just thought holy smokes, something worse would have happened to me or Morgan or both of us.

RB: Did you also realize that the car was the same as the car the RCMP were looking for the next day?

AS: Yeah, I heard it was burnt.

RB: Yeah. So how did you feel the next day when you realized who these guys were?

AS: I don't know. What if we got shot or something?

RB: And the fact that you guys I mean maybe they were in York Landing — RCMP hasn't confirmed that — but they you had the last confirmed encounter with them. How do you feel about that?

AS: I don't know. I don’t really think much about it. I just thought about our safety after that. Maybe one of us would have gotten shot or something worse would have happened to us.

RB: Yeah. When you learned what these two young men were accused of, how did you feel.

AS: I can’t explain it. I was just like holy [expletive]. That’s how I felt at that feeling. [laughs]

RB: And the fact that they are still on the loose. You know that part of the world. I'm from Winnipeg, but I don't know northern Manitoba that well. Do you think it's unusual that they have managed to survive up there?

AS: Yeah, I surprised they’re still surviving. It’s pretty much a dead end on this side.

RB: How much longer do you think this is going to last with these two guys on the loose — with all the RCMP and everybody up there?

AS: I have no idea. I can’t answer that question.

RB: [laughs] It's pretty incredible story, and to think that you were maybe one of the last people to see them.

AS: Um hmm.

RB: I appreciate your time. Thanks, Albert. All right. Good talking to you. Bye-bye.

ATW:Albert Saunders is a First Nations safety officer, in Split Lake, Manitoba. That's where we reached him. And for updates on the search for two fugitives in northern Manitoba — go to: www.cbc.ca/news.

[Music: Horns!]

Capital One breach

Guest: Devlin Barrett

ATW: Last month, a software engineer named Paige Thompson posted a message online. She said: "I've basically strapped myself with a bomb vest." Ms. Thompson had allegedly stolen the personal data of over 100 million Americans, and some six million Canadians, who had applied for Capital One credit cards. Thanks to her posts allegedly boosting of the hack online, authorities tracked her. She's now been arrested for computer fraud and abuse. Devlin Barrett is a Washington Post reporter who's been covering the story. We reached him in Washington.

RB: Give us some examples of the kind of personal information Paige Thompson was allegedly able to steal in this massive breach?

DEVLIN BARRETT: Well, the big bulk of the documents that were taken here were credit card applications. And that's obviously alarming because people put a lot of their personal information into credit card applications. You know they say about six million credit card applications from Canadians were compromised.

RB: Right.

DB: And obviously those are big numbers. And it's a big problem for the company. You've seen their stock price has taken a huge hit in the wake of this news — because this is one of the largest hacks of a financial firm in history.

RB: So she was working for Amazon Web Services or had worked for them.

DB: Yeah, we're told she stopped working there about three years ago. But obviously you know her work and her expertise in this area may have given her a bit of an advantage in terms of figuring out how to hack this data.

RB: Because I guess Capital One kept this database in one of Amazon's servers or clouds or whatever you want to call it.

DB: Right. So the data is kept in the cloud, and that's not that uncommon for major companies right to essentially contract out their data management stuff. So in this case, what we're told is that she was able to find a vulnerability in Capital One's firewall, and basically just pull down, you know access, and copy these massive, massive files full of personal information.

RB: So that the fault lies with Capital One, not Amazon?

DB: That's what it looks like so far. Although, you know I think this is still very early in investigation.

RB: Sure.

DB: You know as far as big hack investigations go, this all has happened lightning fast. You're talking about a matter of essentially days and weeks. Some of these cases take years to put together. But you know the way the FBI and Capital One got onto this led to her doorstep very quickly.

RB: And why is that?

DB: Well, as a general rule in life, it's probably not good to admit to crimes in group online chats. And the FBI says that is what she did in this case — that she said in these chat groups that you know she had taken all this data, and was you know talking about what to do with it. And one person in the group even responded like please don't go to jail.

RB: Yeah.

DB: So it was very clear to the people in the chat that this seemed to be illegal and seemed to be a big problem. And we're told one of those folks reached out to Capital One and just warned them you know, by the way, someone we're talking to is saying they did this. And within a matter of days, Capital One was able to run it down and figure out that it was, in fact, true, they did have a vulnerability, and this person had taken an amazing volume of data.

RB: Do you have some examples of the kinds of clues — maybe they weren’t clues, admissions — she was making online?

DB: Sure, so you know in the criminal complaint, it describes you know her conversations with others. She used a screen name called “erratic” — which I guess people can infer things from that if they want to. But one of the things she apparently messaged in in June was, quote, I've basically strapped myself with a bomb vest [expletive.] Dropping Capital One documents and admitting it. There's social security, social insurance numbers, with full name and DOB. And then another point, she messages I want to get it off my server. I just don't want it around there. I have to find somewhere to store it. Those statements are now all part of the court record in terms of charging her. And you know it's a big case, and it's a big problem. And frankly, her own statements are what led the FBI to her.

RB: There are other statements too that that sort of raise eyebrows, I would say. I'll read this one where she says I have a whole list of things that will ensure my involuntary confinement from the world. [DB grunts] What do you make of that post? I mean was this a true hack or was this something else or is it too soon?

DB: I think they're trying to figure out still what you might call her you know genuine motivation in all this. You know I've heard some people question whether maybe she was doing this to try to just show her software chops, you know show her capabilities and maybe get a job. The FBI suggests in the documents that maybe she was thinking about you know trying to make money off of this in some fashion.

RB: Part of Capital One's business was to try and offer cards to people who wouldn't normally qualify with their credit scores. So a hack like this would mean what for those people?

DB: Well, look, the types of information that was compromised for all 100 million of the Americans and all six million of the Canadians, the type of stuff you're talking about being compromised here is your address, your date of birth, some details of your credit history. You know for some types of identity fraud, you know that's enough to get started.

RB: Sure.

DB: And so that's pretty alarming and worrisome to you know anyone who might get their data affected. I think one of the potential upsides of all this — and I stress potential because I think there's a lot of investigating that still needs to happen. But what are the potential upsides is if this woman's claims are correct and she really just downloaded it onto a hard drive and it never went beyond that, then there's a good chance at least that this data wasn't manipulated or can't be manipulated to you know the detriment of all these customers all over the place.

RB: Is it normal — or should it be normal — for banks to be keeping information in a cloud? I mean is that secure enough at this point?

DB: Yeah, it's a great question. I think it's interesting. I think that the debate I've heard so far among cybersecurity folks is one, this is a terrible breach, but you know little by little companies are learning how to do things somewhat better. So, for example, the fact that they were able to shield the vast majority of Social Security numbers, the Social Insurance Numbers from you know being hacked and being accessible you know that's a good thing. The problem is obviously you've still you know let all this other information be exposed. That's not great. And so I think cloud data services are very complicated. And it's basically another sort of surface area which hackers can you know in theory you know target and try to figure out a way into systems.

RB: Maybe just keep the money under our mattresses or something.

DB: [laughs] Well, then we wouldn't need credit cards at all, and no one wants that.

RB: [laughs] Devlin Barrett, thanks for your time today. I appreciate it.

DB: Thanks for having me, Rosemary.

RB: Take care. Bye-bye.

ATW: Devlin Barrett is a reporter with The Washington Post.

[Music: Ambient]

Chaser obit

Guest: Pilley Bianchi

ATW: The unimaginative way is to say it is that dog is "man's best friend". But if you're talking about Chaser, a border collie from South Carolina, you could also say that she was humankind's best comrade, helpmate, confidante, or pal. And Chaser might just have understood you. Chaser was known as "the world's smartest dog" — and credited with understanding more than 1000 nouns. Her accomplishments were featured in research published by her owner, retired psychology professor John W. Pilley — who died last year. And last week, Chaser followed him, when she died of natural causes at the age of 15. Pilley Bianchi is John W. Pilley's daughter. She was with Chaser when she died. We reached Ms. Bianchi in New York.

RB: Pilley Bianchi, let me start by saying I'm so sorry for the loss of your family's dog, Chaser.

PILLEY BIANCHI: Oh, thank you, Rosemary. It was a big one.

RB: Hmmm. She was a special dog.

PB: Oh yes, extraordinary.

RB: She does have the title sort of as the smartest dog in the world. How smart was she?

PB: Well, she was able to manipulate and get her way on a daily basis. [RB laughs] But what garnered her international fame is that she had the largest language learning of any animal based on her formal language learning.

RB: Incredible. So this was work that your father, John Pilley, — who died last year — did with her. How did he manage to teach Chaser 1000 words?

PB: Well, with a lot of dogged persistence. That's what my father was. But it was all through play. He got Chaser as a two-month-old border collie with the goal of teaching her human language. And any language you need a vocabulary, so her vocabulary was going to be her toys. And he started teaching her at eight weeks through a process called errorless learning, and proceeded to teach her the new name of a toy every three days. And by the time she was five months old, she had that aha moment. Words have meaning! When he's holding up this toy, it means this is the name of that toy.

RB: Can you give listeners a sense of some of those words?

PB: Well, they vary between blue, to Franklin, circle. They were toys that we probably all knew. But my father gave them very odd names. For instance, she had a SpongeBob, but that wasn't his name. He named SpongeBob something that could have been flipity flop. [RB and PB laugh] And it was good because she could remember the names, but we had to write them down.

RB: [deep laughs] What was it like for you when you first saw what Chaser was able to do?

PB: I was kind of blown away. I mean I knew what he was doing with her. But until the research was published, I really did not understand the gravitas that this was. And also what a lot of people don't know about Chaser is that she is not an obedient dog.

RB: [deep laughs] What do you mean?

PB: Well, she knows that obedience commands — you know sit, stay, walk, no, yes. But what my father wanted to do was teach her a concept instead of rote behaviours, so that that gave her a lot of leeway and freedom.

RB: She was almost more independent than a normal dog?

PB: Oh gosh, she was she was so independent.

RB: What was your dad trying to show from a science and research perspective? What was he trying to demonstrate?

PB: Well, he's trying to demonstrate that animals could learn human language. No one had tried to teach, interact with canines in a meaningful way to learn human language. Lewis Herman was working with the dolphins. We have research in the primate area. But the dog was uncharted territory. And he firmly believed — especially in working with his previous dogs — that dogs were way smarter than the world has believed them to be. And he wanted to find out the boundaries of the canine mind.

RB: So I watched a video of your dad and Chaser with Neil deGrasse Tyson, and not only was Chaser able to identify the toys that he name, but she was also able to logically deduce what object was new, even though she had never seen it before. I mean that's incredible.

PB: It's stunning. The first time I witnessed her do that, it took my breath away. That's learning by inference, and it's called fast mapping, and it is how children learn.

RB: Hmm. Do you think any dog could do this or was Chaser just you know an out-of-this-world kind of dog?

PB: No, my father strongly believed that she was not unique; it’s the way that she was taught that's unique. And what he did was he channeled her innate instinct to herd and chase objects, and he used that integrating that with play into learning the names of words.

RB: Did she have a favorite word?

PB: Oh, it was ball — blue ball.

RB: [deep laughs] Truer to her doggy soul, I guess.

PB: Yes, yes, that was her most favorite object in the whole world.

RB: Your dad died last year. How was that for her?

PB: Hmm, that's a good question. And the reality of it was Chaser; she was not a touchy-feely dog. But when we brought her to a hospice six days before he passed, she would come into his outreached arms, and she would you know allow herself to be pet. But most of the time she wandered into the other room to sort of engage with other people. But it was hours before his death that she planted herself firmly in front of his bed, with her head down, her shoulders square, giving him that border collie eye, and gave one very loud sharp bark. And it gave us goose bumps because we knew that she was not beckoning him to wake up. She was bidding him goodbye.

RB: Hmm.

PB: It was stunning.

RB: Well, I know you think that every dog could do this. But just watching some videos of Chaser, I think she was pretty special. So again, I'm so sorry for your loss, and your family's loss.

PB: Thank you, Rosemary.

RB: Nice to speak with you.

PB: You as well.

RB: Bye-bye.

PB: Bye.

AT: Pilley Bianchi is the daughter of John W. Pilley — a professor of psychology who taught his border collie Chaser to understand more than 1000 nouns. Chaser died last week of natural causes. We reached Ms. Bianchi in New York. And if you want to see a picture of Chaser and her toys, check out our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Hip-hop]

Giant ticks

ATW: Nature is a never-ending wonderment. All organisms are playing their own role, big or small, in the complex tapestry of life on this big blue marble. And therefore, all organisms, in their own way, are beautiful. Except for ticks, which are garbage. Oh, I know: they're a key part of the food chain. Just one counterpoint to that, though: they're tiny bugs that suck your blood and make you sick. Case closer: they're gross losers that are the worst. But get ready for this nonsense. Here come the giant ticks. Usually, giant ticks hang out in tropical areas. But last week, scientists confirmed that they'd found two of them in The Netherlands — two thousand-plus kilometres from their usual habitat. And the giant ones are bigger losers. First: they're around five millimetres in length, including their repulsive legs. That's too big. Second: they're filthy disease-spreaders. And third: like regular ticks, they track us by detecting the carbon dioxide we exhale. But unlike regular ticks, they hunt us by sight, and by our body heat, and by tracking the vibrations we make when we walk. And they will follow us as far as 99 metres to sink their repulsive, grungy face-tubes into us. So great, they're moving north. But right now, they're not a widespread problem, so I don't want you to panic. I do want you to be bitterly disappointed that they exist. And that climate change means eventually, nature's going to go through every tick in the book.

Part two: Road stop PSAs, Victorian sex toy

Road stop PSAs

Guest: Kelly Franklin

ATW: Road-side stops across Ontario were crowded this morning — not due to traffic, but due to trafficking. People gathered at the rest areas to mark World Day against Trafficking in Persons. And to mark the conclusion of a video campaign that's trying to reach out to victims who might find themselves at the stops — and to those who might be able to help them. Kelly Franklin is the founder of Courage for Freedom, an organization that works with survivors of trafficking — and the organizer of today's gatherings at ONroute rest stops. We reached her in Aylmer, Ontario.

RB: Kelly Franklin, can you describe the videos that have been playing at these ONroutes this month?

KELLY FRANKLIN: They were created by a 16-year-old survivor of human trafficking, sexual exploitation, and forced prostitution, who was a little upset that most of the images that she was seeing once she was on the other side of that you know the exploitation and the criminal activity that was being forced on her. She would see these ads and see different things and posters. And they really kind of upset her because she started to think who the heck would ever be able to help her? How would a young person ever be able to find hope in them? Because they really didn't represent what a young girl looked like in Ontario that was being trafficked.

RB: Hmm.

KF: And so we had been working with her — with this young person — for three years on her journey of wellness. And so we'd spend a lot of time together. And during that time, we'd play around with some video ideas. And we got the idea to put the creative together and say what we thought needed to be said. And she challenged me to get this out to the public. And then challenged me that it needed to be in the ONroutes because that is one of the locations that traffickers when they're moving across the highway would be able to stop and a girl could get out, go to the bathroom, and get some food, and get back in a car.

RB: Hmmm. What were those images — those typical images — that she was seeing and didn't like? What were they?

KF: Well, at first, she didn't like the fact that everybody looked like they were handcuffed. She'd agree that girls are emotionally handcuffed and young boys are emotionally handcuffed and endure the PTSD and trauma from the atrocities they suffer at the hands of somebody that may be torturing them. But it's not a realistic indicator. And the other thing was that the girls that she saw in posters would all be downtrodden. They'd look a little grimy like they hadn't washed their hair and it was greasy. Their clothes would be falling off of them. They’d very often be sitting on the ground near a dingy curb or with garbage cans in the background. And she just said very vehemently who is ever going to know to look at a normal young person, and then just look for the indicators of what human trafficking looks like instead of looking for my clothing, instead of looking at whether I have greasy hair. And she said human trafficking happens right in front of us in broad daylight.

RB: Umm hmmm. So what are those human indicators that you would use to better identify someone that you suspect might be trafficked?

KF: Well, I can give you a couple. But I think people really should be responsible and go to #knowhumantrafficking.

RB: Sure.

KF: But just a couple are maybe somebody that isn't able to speak up for themselves when they're being talked to by somebody when they should like ordering food or just you know somebody saying how are you. Somebody's looking grossly uncomfortable in the company of somebody with an age difference. Somebody that might be sitting in the back seat of a car with another person while there's somebody in the front seat driving them. Somebody that might not know what city they're in, what community they're in. Somebody might be just inappropriately for the weather or look like everything they own is in a No Frills bag instead of a suitcase. Somebody that just is looking like she need to flee. You know we need to just study some of those indicators, know what they are, and again, we're seeing imagery presenting young people and re-victimizing them. We don't need to re-victimizing them.

RB: You sort of alluded to it, but what makes these road-side stops the best place for these kinds of PSAs? Like who are you trying to talk to you ideally?

KF: Well, a couple things. First of all, we just you know we just wanted to get the public to the place that they could see normalized images of girls traveling a highway, and then go to the hash and know what signs are, and then know the number to call. I was actually in Woodstock today with almost 400 people. And at the end of what I was talking to people about and what I was sharing, I asked everybody in that room to pull out their phone, and I waited, and we put the number in the phone. The movement of girls across the 4001 and 400 series corridor is problematic. Girls from Sudbury, Sault Saint Marie, Perry Sound might end up in Windsor and not even know what city they're in. So having the ability to take up our eyes and just look around and if we notice something make the call, that's our responsibility, that's our humanity in this fight to end human trafficking. The other thing is if a girl sees an image up there that she can identify with that shows hope she just might — if she gets the chance. Or a young boy or a young adult male or a young adult female or somebody that's identifying anyway actually. They might figure out a way to get a hold of the phone and make their own call.

RB: I understand that the young woman who helped you come up with the campaign — who had this idea — that she's seen video from today's gatherings. What was her reaction?

KF: Well, she saw actually some live video from what we were doing today at the location I was at. And I can tell you honestly, oh, there you go, you're gonna make me cry. [breaking down] We shared some tears because it is overwhelming to have somebody that endured the stigma and the shame and isolation of this crime being perpetrated on them. And they are the ones to be made to feel horrible about it. When she saw how many people actually cared, she was in disbelief. And that is exactly the message that victims need to hear to become survivors.

RB: All right. Kelly Franklin, thank you.

KF: Thank you.

ATW: We reached Kelly Franklin in Aylmer, Ontario.

[Music: Up-tempo]

Diplomatic pressure

ATW: Federal Conservatives say the government should stop telling diplomats how to talk about China. But a Liberal-controlled foreign affairs committee won't be heeding their calls for an investigation. The committee met in Ottawa today, in the wake of reports that two former Canadian ambassadors to China had been contacted by federal staffers. David Mulroney told the Globe and Mail he heard from a senior official at Global Affairs Canada who told him not to recommend that Canadians suspend non-essential travel to China. And last week, we spoke with another former ambassador, Guy St. Jacques. He said that he doesn't believe the government wanted to control his speech — but he remains, quote, "a bit puzzled" by a similar call he received. In today's committee meeting, Conservative MP Leona Alleslev called on her Liberal counterparts to support an investigation into those claims.

SOUNDCLIP

LEONA ALLESLEV: If, in fact, the Prime Minister's Office is attempting to take non-partisan public officials and arm wrestle them into behaving in a way that is partisan. If, in fact, that's what happened when they were asking the associate deputy minister Mr. Thopill to call these former diplomats and tell them that it's an election year, and tell them that they need to check in with the government on the government's policy, then the very fabric of Canada's democracy is at risk. It's a very difficult position for a public servant to be in when the Prime Minister's Office calls and asks them to do something.

ATW: Leona Alleslev is the Tory lead on the House foreign affairs committee. The committee — which is controlled by the Liberals — has rejected the idea of an investigation into claims that Liberal Party officials have been contacting diplomats to tell them how to talk about China. The motion was defeated by one vote, after Rob Oliphant — the Liberal lead on the committee — responded to Ms. Alleslev's remarks with a reminder that the lives of two Canadians detained in China may be at stake.

SOUNDCLIP

ROB OLIPHANT: I am very distressed, actually more distressed than I had been when I simply read the notice of motion at the tone, at the idea, and at the allegations that are being cast about by members of the opposition. And I say that advisedly because I think that there are times, and I've been on the opposition side, and I've been on the government side, and I know what opposition members do because I've done it myself. But there are times in politics. There are times in public policy. There are times in our Canadian shared life that we let some of that go, and we actually think primarily as the government has been doing since December about two Canadians who are wrongfully and arbitrarily held in detention in China, in conditions which have been horrendous, belittling, and have demanded tremendous courage from both Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor.

ATW: Rob Oliphant is the Liberal lead on the House foreign affairs committee. That committee will not be investigating claims that federal Liberal staffers are telling Canadian diplomats what to say — and what not to say — when it comes to China.

[Music: World music]

Residential schools

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Lots of cheering and applause. A man is heard screaming “we done it’]

AT: That's what it sounded like in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Newfoundland back in 2017, when residential school survivor Toby Obed accepted an apology from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Mr. Obed was the lead plaintiff on the case that led to a settlement for Labrador survivors. And now, his story his reaching a new audience in Poland. Polish author Joanna Gierak-Onoszko was working in Toronto when she saw a photograph of Mr. Obed. It spurred her to learn more about him and residential schools. The result was "The 27 Deaths of Toby Obed" — a story that's being called "the most important non-fiction book in Poland" right now. Ms. Gierak-Onoszko spoke to the CBC about the book — and its main character:

SOUNDCLIP

JOANNA GIERAK-ONOSZKO: For me, Toby is kind of an invincible figure. He's like a phoenix; he's always rising from the ashes. And he's a superhero that Canada can be proud of. And the book I wrote is a story of his life and battles and victories we know so much about trauma because we are a country invaded through different world wars. But we are very much focused on our own identity and our own trauma and our own suffering. And now we get to know those stories that happened in Canada, and they resonate so much with our hearts and our souls. And it's amazing when I tell my friends here in Poland that you discuss reconciliation as fervently of tax issues because we are not used to it. We are not ready to discuss our own dark places in history, not in our schools, not in our churches, not in our media yet.

AT: That's Polish author Joanna Gierak-Onoszko speaking with CBC Newfoundland. Toby Obed also spoke to the CBC about what it was like to be at the centre of this new book.

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TOBY OBED: I’ve waited for two or three months. And every week, I’d go to the post office, excitedly anticipating the arrival of the book. And when I did get it, it was like I have it in my hand, you know? I'm actually holding it, and this is written by a woman who I've never met. But to have her write the book was exciting. I know that over in Poland, over that way, there's a lot of things that have been going on with the church and in the past that has affected people. It always stays with us, you know? It will always stay with us. But it's how we deal and how we cope. It's cool to know that what I did here in Canada, in the province in Newfoundland and Labrador, actually helped to start something else somewhere else in the world. And knowing like they say it only takes one person to make the first move, and I made that first step. And so I guess now the ripple effect has started.

ATW: That's residential school survivor Toby Obed speaking with CBC's Katie Breen. Mr. Obed is featured in a new Polish book called "The 27 Deaths of Toby Obed."

[Music: Indie rock]

Victorian sex toy

Guest: Shawna Scott

AT: If you've ever watched one of the Indiana Jones movies, you know they centre around the same basic premise. Dr. Henry Walton "Indiana" Jones, Jr., played by Harrison Ford, is a fictional professor of archaeology who braves ridiculous obstacles to get his hands on one historically important artifact or another. In that regard, you can consider Ireland's Shawna Scott a modern-day Indiana Jones. Yesterday, she led a crowdfunding campaign to purchase such an important artifact. As with Indiana Jones, the item had much historical value. But it's not the Ark of the Covenant or a Crystal Skull. It's a 130-year-old ivory sex toy. We reached Ms. Scott in Dublin. And a quick warning: like "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom", this interview is rated PG-13.

RB: Shauna Scott, maybe I'll get you to start by describing this sex toy for us. What did it look like?

SHAWNA SCOTT: So the sex toy in question is a long ivory dildo. It comes in a mahogany box. The dildo itself was made from what we think is Indian ivory. And then the owner supposedly brought it back to Ireland just as a tusk, and then brought it to China in the late eighteen hundreds and had it carved into this dildo to send back to his wife because he was fighting in a war over there. And I guess that was just a thing that people did back then. When they weren't sure if they were going to come home, they'd send a gift like this home to their wives.

RB: How considerate.

SS: Yeah. [RB laughs] Apparently, it's very romantic as well. There's a little heart carved at the base of where her finger would lie. And supposedly there is a compartment where you could store a lock of your lover's hair.

RB: How big is it?

SS: I don't know. I haven't actually seen it in person yet. It was an online auction. The photos make it look massive, but something tells me it's going to be a lot smaller when it gets here.

RB: Huh. So why did you want this so badly — without getting too personal?

SS: Okay, so the story starts two years ago, as it was being auctioned off in County Meath. And at the time, it was like the day of the auction I was going on holidays. I had just found out about it. There was no way I was gonna be able to bid on it. And it had gone to I think a private American collector. And so I was absolutely devastated that it was going to be leaving the country because we don't have a whole lot of like Irish sexual history artifacts. And our museums tend to prioritize things that have a connection with the famine or the 1916 Easter Rising. Stuff to do with like the revolution, and not so much like our own sexual history. And I just thought this would be such a missed opportunity like to have this in Ireland, in our own country, and so I was just really, really heartbroken. And then on Saturday, a customer of mine was like hey, I just placed an order. Also, here's something that I think you might find interesting. And it was a link to an auction house. And I had a look at the lot, and I'm like oh my God, I think it's the same dildo. [RB and SS laugh] And I just started freaking out. I'm like it never left. It never left Ireland. I thought it was gone forever. And so I think what might have happened because it's made of ivory, and the Obama administration put in place the ban of importing ivory products — which is great, which is fabulous. But it meant that that seller couldn't import it into the state if they were from America. I think that's the reason why it might have gone back on sale.

RB: So it worked out for you.

SS: Worked out great. Last night, I went to Twitter. I was like look, I know this is a long shot. Will someone please take me up on this, and like maybe we can get a few donations going. And if we win, this will be a dildo for Ireland. And so yeah, I got over a grand in donations in the space of 90 minutes.

RB: Wow!

SS: I just knew that this was just an important artifact that is so rare in this country. And I just knew that I needed to facilitate saving it and like keeping it in the country if at all possible.

RB: So what did you end up paying for it?

SS: Six-hundred-and-twenty euros.

RB: Which would be how much in dollars do you think?

SS: Roughly I think like eight or nine hundred Canadian dollars.

RB: Right. I should probably tell people here too that you're a dual U.S.-Irish citizen. And yet, you felt deeply connected to saving this piece of Irish heritage.

SS: Yeah, it's a it's a funny one because I'm originally from a suburb outside of Seattle. But I moved here when I was 20. So I spent my entire adult life here. I feel as much Irish as I do American. And you know we have a real sort of patriotism here, and I love it.

RB: I get the Irish patriotism. I'm not sure that the Irish — and correct me if I'm wrong — are so open about their sexuality. [laughs] Would that be right?

SS: Well, that’s where I think you could be wrong. So I own an online sex shop, and so I get to see how much things have been changing so quickly in this country. Interviewers love to say well, like aren't we so repressed? And I think this is just like one more piece of the puzzle proving that we're not as repressed as we think we are. And we can have these conversations about sex and sexuality and or sexual history and how we got here so.

RB: So you said that this dildo — I'm just gonna say it — you said that belongs in a museum. Have you had anyone express interest yet? Is there a sex museum in Dublin?

SS: We don't have a sex museum. But I have had people from different museums say like we'd love to have an expert check it over just to verify its authenticity. And then I have another group from our digital heritage society who want to 3d scan it for their archives. So I've gotten a lot of interest from like history nerds, from sex nerds. So I'm kind of filtering through my emails.

RB: In the meantime, you're gonna keep it, I guess?

SS: So yeah, until I get a permanent home for it, I'm going to keep it in my office. But I haven't got it yet. Like I'm so excited to finally see it in real life. It's gonna be like meeting a celebrity. [RB and SS laugh]

RB: Don't ask for its autograph.

SS: Yeah, exactly.

RB: Well, I hope you have a long and healthy life together. It's cool what you're doing. It is a piece of history.

SS: Thank you so much.

RB: Thanks. Nice to meet you. Bye-bye.

SS: You too. Bye now.

AT: Shawna Scott is the owner of an online sex shop in Ireland — and the new owner of a very old sex toy, which she plans to donate to an Irish museum. We reached Ms. Scott in Dublin.

[Music: Ambient]

Obese dog

ATW: Mercedes the dog is okay now. But for a while there, she wasn't getting around much. She couldn't. Mercedes used to live at a food market in Thailand — where friendly vendors kept feeding her. Dogs of her type typically weigh about 18 kilograms. At her heaviest, Mercedes weighed fifty-four. She has since lost a significant amount of weight — which created a new problem: a lot of excess skin. Now, after a call for help from a Thai animal rescue, Canadian volunteers have stepped in. They raised money to fly the dog to Ottawa — where a vet has agreed to do the surgery. Volunteer Gen Smith spoke with the CBC's Robyn Bresnahan today. They were joined by Dacey Traill, who is fostering Mercedes. We'll hear from Ms. Traill first — who herself had gastric bypass surgery, and lost more than 40 kilos.

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DACEY TRAILL: Once I lost all that weight, it was like a brand new world to me, you know? I was happier, healthier, and you know I could walk and feel good I could. I have four kids, and I could suddenly you know do things with them, and you know and enjoy it. So when I heard Mercedes story, I thought well, this poor pup has lost all this weight. And yet, she still struggles to walk, you know she can't walk far, she doesn't have any energy really. She can't even sit. She goes from basically standing to laying down into her little puddle form. So it kind of like spoke to me because you know she's come all this way. And not that she would understand you know what she looks like, but just in terms of how she feels you know she's come so far. And yet, still has such a ways to go and needs to lose that skin.

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: Because it's not just a cosmetic kind of thing. She was actually really suffering, Gen

GEN SMITH: Yeah, I mean she's very prone to all kinds of infections and sores because of the folds. And so that's the main reason, you know? As funny it is as it is to talk about a dog getting like a nip and tuck, it's really more than that. We didn't fly to Canada to have to have purely cosmetic surgery for sure. it's to help her health wise.

SOUNDCLIP

ATW: Robyn Bresnahan, host of "Ottawa Morning", speaking with Gen Smith and Dacey Traill.

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July 30, 2019 episode transcript

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