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The AIH Transcript for July 24, 2019

Hosts: Megan Williams and Chris Howden

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Hello, I'm Megan Williams, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

MW: Nearing the breaking bad point. Winnipeg's police force is sounding the alarm on a growing meth crisis in the city. And the chief says he's losing good officers who can't handle the stress.

CH: Where there's a will, there's a way. When two parents left the lion's share of their fortune to their two sons, their four daughters took their quest for a fair share of the bequest to BC’s Supreme Court — and won.

MW: If you won't join them, beat them. Even after weeks, protests in Hong Kong are still going full swing. And then, on Sunday, a mob armed with sticks came out swinging against the protesters themselves.

CH: Nobody knows the truffles he's seen. And in researching a book on the lucrative truffle trade, Ryan Jacobs saw a whole lot of trouble as well — including fakery, theft, and sabotage.

MW: What flushed hell is this. With fatbergs becoming a problem in Australia, one agency has come up with an extremely memorable song to remind people of the only three things that should be put in their toilets.

CH: And… flake it till you make it. We're past the point where the West Antarctic ice sheet will be saved by small adjustments, so a team of scientists wants to prevent a disastrous melt by blasting it with giant snow cannons.

CH: As It Happens the Tuesday edition radio that listens to the voice of freezeing.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Winnipeg meth crisis, Hong Kong protests, artificial snow study

Winnipeg meth crisis

Guest: Danny Smyth

CH: In a recent internal letter, Winnipeg Police Chief Danny Smyth had a message for his officers: "Hang in there." Now, the force has released new crime statistics that are helping the rest of the country understand why. The stats point to an increase in crime year over year — six per cent in Manitoba. And in the province's largest city, Winnipeg, firearms offences are up 45 per cent. Property crimes saw a 19 percent bump. And the list goes on. Chief Smyth says it's all thanks to a worsening drug crisis in the city -- specifically meth. And he says that crisis has forced members of his police force to resign because of stress. We reached Chief Danny Smyth in Winnipeg.

MW: Chief Smythe, can you tell me the effect the meth crisis is having on Winnipeg?

DANNY SMYTH: Well, it's having a pretty dramatic impact on our community. I mean we've been kind of in the throes of this now for a couple of years. And certainly lots of evidence of drug use around the community. For example, you know we have an outreach service by the Bear Clan — which is kind of an Indigenous group that does a lot of neighbourhood patrols. Just this year alone, they've picked up some 60,000 syringes that have been discarded by users. And then we’re certainly seeing the impact in crime now. Pretty dramatic increases, particularly in property crime that rose almost 20 per cent. I think alarming for me is the fact that you know last year we had 22 homicides for the entire year. You know at this juncture, we're already dealing with 25 homicides. And about a third of those are going to be drug-related.

MW: So what do you think is behind the increased drug use that is possibly probably at the core of the increase in crimes in Winnipeg?

DS: Meth is not a new drug in our country. You know it started to emerge in around ’05. But one of the things that's changed particularly for us here in Winnipeg is the price. You can get a hit or a dose of meth now for as little as ten bucks.

MW: What did the price used to be of meth?

DS: You know, it was in that 50 to 100 dollar range. So it still made it more attractive for people to turn to things like crack and cocaine. Now, it's much cheaper than those drugs.

MW: Now last week, you wrote a letter to members of your police force urging them to hang in there. Can you tell me about the toll the situation is having on your officers?

DS: Well, it's very challenging. I don't think a day goes by where our members in the field aren't dealing with someone in crisis. And that puts additional stress on our members. So you know, for example, this year alone, we've had two officer-involved shootings and two in custody deaths that are being investigated. And that puts our members through a whole different protocol, where their actions are scrutinized, where there's protocol involved that you know will take them off the road for a period of time while they're being assessed. It's things like that that have ramped up the stress levels.

MW: Now in the letter, you wrote last week where you’re asking your officers or urging your officers to hang in there, that that came just a few days after some photos surfaced with Winnipeg police officers and paramedics appearing to mock an intoxicated man. Are you using stress or your call to the province for help to excuse that kind of bad behaviour?

DS: Not at all. You know our members are held accountable for their actions. And certainly, the officers that were involved in that were you know were held accountable. They were subject to a regulatory process — which is a discipline process for us — and you know certainly they will be held accountable for their actions in that circumstance.

MW: Now, Winnipeg Mayor Brian Bowman posed the question of whether the police are actually the right resource to respond to these calls for help. Would you like to see more of the addiction problem handled by the Ministry of Health and taken away from the police — something that's happened in Portugal say in its dealing with its drug addiction problem?

DS: Well, I certainly think a balanced approach like that is necessary. This isn't a situation where police alone can deal with the problem. I think we have a role to play certainly with those that distribute the drugs. And you know when people are in crisis, it may be necessary to have us present. But this is a health issue. And I would agree that you know health care needs to catch up to us with regards to this problem. Certainly, more long term care. But even in the short term, just having services available for detox and stabilization so that police and paramedics aren't saddled with hanging onto people and then triaging them through an emergency service — which can take hours and hours it really keeps us from doing you know our regular jobs.

MW: Now, part of the Portuguese model when they dealt with their drug epidemic was also decriminalizing drug use. What do you think about that?

DS: Certainly, in Canada, you know the Canadian Association of Chiefs of polices is actually studying that right now. And I know that Portugal is one of the countries that were visited as they explored other options to deal with this kind of thing.

MW: Would you be open to the idea?

DS: Absolutely, if the evidence is there, you know I, of course, would be open to it.

MW: And as you say, the addiction problem in Winnipeg is nothing new. It’s been on the rise for a couple of years now. What are you afraid will happen if you don't get the right kind of response you're seeking from the province?

DS: Well, I think if we don't address this in a balanced way, we’ll continue to put undue stress on our on our frontline emergency services. And some of the other services that we're responsible for will fall off. And really at the end of the day, I think the people we serve will be dissatisfied with the service that we provide them. And frankly I think confidence in police and paramedics will fall. That's my worst fear here if we don't get some relief.

MW: Chief Smyth, thanks very much for speaking with me. And best of luck.

DS: Thank you.

CH: Danny Smyth is the Chief of Police in Winnipeg.

[Music: Up-tempo]

Honk Kong protests

Guest: Lam Cheuk-ting

CH: For weeks, protestors in Hong Kong have pushed back against an extradition bill they say is undemocratic. Then, earlier this week, an opposing force hit back — literally. On Sunday evening, a group of men armed with sticks and metal bars descended on Yuen Long metro station — injuring dozens. Today, police arrested 6 men — some of whom have links to organized crime. Lam Cheuk-ting is a pro-democracy lawmaker who was injured in Sunday night's attack. We reached Mr. Lam in Hong Kong.

MW: Mr. Lam, you were in the hospital after the attack at Yoon long station. How are you doing now?

LAM CHEUK-TING: I'm getting better. But my mouth have a deep cut. And 18 stiches and a crushed bone on my right hand.

MW: So you have stitches in your mouth, and you have a crushed bone on your right arm?

LCT: Yes, Yes, on my right hand. They used batons and a wooden bar to assault me and the other people in the Yuen Long station.

MW: Can you take us back to the attack? When were you first aware that something was going on at the station?

LCT: At 9:45 at night, I received footage showing a youngster under attack in Yuen Long. I then called the police force, and I told them I was going to Yuen Long to monitor this situation. And when I arrived at Yuen Long station, I found broken batons and so much blood on the floor. Several minutes later, a gang of almost 1000 people stormed into the station to attack the crowd.

MW: And can you tell me what these men looked like?

LCT: They are all white-shirted.

MW: They were all wearing white shirts?

LCT: Yes, and had the baton or wooden bar on hand as weapons.

MW: So you were in the station, and you saw these batons on the ground with blood, and then these men carrying them. Were they saying anything?

LCT: They used foul language shouted at us. And it was really chaotic. I asked them not to hit the crowd anymore. And I asked them to leave, and they refused. They hit everyone indiscriminately. A woman was hit and fell on the ground. And we then escaped to the platform to the train and went into the train. And a gangster used the baton to attack all the people in the train. It was really horrific.

MW: So the men were hitting people inside the train car as it was moving?

LCT: No, the train stopped in the station. And the train had been closed the door. And attacker attacked the people inside the train. Quite a lot of them are the passengers. Not so many protestor of the anti-extradition law ordinance.

MW: So most of the people were just ordinary commuters, not necessarily protesters?

LCT: Yes, and the crowd in the train were terrified.

MW: How were you feeling during all of this?

LCT: I strongly condemn the brutal, horrific assault. And I also strongly condemn the Hong police force took no action to prevent and tackle the attack. And obviously, the police force received information far before the attack.

MW: I want to ask you about that. The police have made arrests, and some of those arrested may have links to organized crime networks.

[crosstalk]

LCT: Yes, of course.

MW: Or part of the triads.

LCT: Of course.

MW: Why do you think that?

LCT: The are all white-shirted, and obviously well-organized. And most of them have tattoos. Quite a lot of the triad members have tattoos.

MW: Photojournalists also captured an encounter of what appears to be riot police talking with two of the men in white shirts, and patting one on the shoulder before walking off. What do you make of that?

LCT: I think the police sent a wrong message. It seems that they haven’t performed their duties, and deliberately turned a blind eye to those wrongdoers. I do think the police force allowed them to attack.

MW: Now, Hong Kong's police chief denies any collusion with gangsters. He says the riot police were late because they were dealing with the protesters. And he's promised a review of the response time. Is that not enough?

LCT: It is a terrible excuse. Because there is a news report today in Hong Kong — two district councillors in Yuen Long showed their WhatsApp record to prove that the police force had already known the attack far before the incident.

MW: So the report — which CBC has not independently verified — says the police knew the attack was going to happen before it actually took place.

LCT: Yes, exactly. And the police force told the councillors that they are well prepared for the incident. They will deploy manpower. But nothing had happened.

MW: Now, after this mob attack at the station in Hong Kong, are you going to keep protesting or has this made you more cautious?

LCT: I will keep protesting. We will fight no matter how difficult we are going to face.

MW: Mr. Lam, thanks very much for speaking with me today.

LCT: Thank you. Bye-bye.

CH: Lam Cheuk-ting is a pro-democracy lawmaker who was injured during a mob attack at Yuen Long station on Sunday night. We reached Mr. Lam in Hong Kong. And we’ve got more on that story on the As It Happens website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Rock]

Artificial snow study

Guest: Anders Levermann

CH: The West Antarctic Ice Sheet is in big trouble. Even with drastic cuts to greenhouse gas emissions over the next decade, scientists predict the ice sheet will still melt, and sea levels will still rise. So researchers in Germany have come up with an ambitious plan. It's so ambitious they're calling it a sort of "Antarctic moon landing." They're proposing we use giant snow cannons to pump out lots and lots of artificial snow on top of the ice sheet, to save it from collapse. If that sounds absurd, Anders Levermann would be the first to agree with you. He teaches at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, and he led the study that includes the plan. We reached him in London, UK.

MW: Professor Levermann, this sounds like something a struggling ski hill might do. How could artificial snow potentially save the ice in West Antarctica?

ANDERS LEVERMANN: Well, the warming waters have actually melted away some of the ice at the bottom of the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet. Now, this has led to the ice getting a flow at places where there shouldn't be a flow. And that accelerates the ice flow into the ocean. And the real problem here is that this ice flow won't stop. That will take several centuries, but it'll lead to three or three-and-a-half metres of global sea-level rise. And will put cities like New York, Shanghai, Calcutta, Hamburg in danger — actually put it below sea level. So what we have now studied is whether it is possible to stabilize the ice flow again by just snowing on top. So taking the ice that was melted away and putting it on top of the ice sheets.

MW: And how much snow are we talking about here?

AL: We're talking about a massive amount of snow. The Antarctic Ice Sheet is on the Antarctic continent, and the Antarctic continent is really as big as the North American continent all the way from Mexico to Canada. We're talking about at least three-point-five trillion metric tons of water that you pump up and put as snow onto the ice sheet.

MW: So how do you propose actually pumping out all this water which turns to snow onto this massive ice sheet?

AL: Well, first of all, you have to have these enormous amounts of water — which only are available in the ocean really in the Antarctica. So you pump it out of the ocean. You have to pump it up like 700 to 1,000 metres up into onto the ice sheet. Then you have to pump it several hundreds of kilometres inland.

MW: Where's the energy to do this coming from?

AL: Antarctica is the windiest place on the planet. And so you would create windmills. And then you would have to pump it inland and distribute it probably via snow cannons. Now, that would create salty snow because the ocean is salty, and the ice sheet is fresh. It doesn't have any salt. That might be a bad idea — especially if you get some of it to melt and then trickle down into the ice sheet. So it's probably a good idea to desalinate it — which needs even further energy. Altogether, it's a huge endeavour. It's something like an Antarctic moon station or something like this. It's really something that only a lot of countries could do together. And I have to emphasize that I'm not proposing this — because it's a ridiculous idea to do. It is just something that… well, ridiculous it's not the right word. It's a horrible thing to do because an Antarctica is the only place on the planet where you can only go as a researcher. You know people take all their trash with them home again when they leave the continent. So you would turn this untouched place on the planet into an industrialized compound, if you like.

MW: What would be the consequences on wildlife there, for instance?

AL: At the coast is tremendous wildlife. There are species that you will not find anywhere else on the planet. It would be a tremendous hit on to a unique ecosystem.

MW: You say this is a ridiculous plan, and it certainly sounds like it has many challenges. But is it doable?

AL: It is definitely. I am convinced it's doable. And it's you know as much as I say that it's a ridiculous plan, the problem is that — and that is the dilemma that we are facing — that it is also ridiculous to lose New York or Shanghai, Calcutta. We're building our cultural heritage near the coasts, and we are facing the dilemma. You know the West Antarctic ice discharge will happen. It is physics. We know that it is, in fact, destabilized and that it will discharge all its ice into the ocean. So we have a choice between two terrible things to do. Either do nothing and lose our cultural heritage the coasts. Or we do something terrible as destroying the nature in Western Antarctica.

MW: So to your mind, what's the best solution right now?

AL: I don't have an answer. And that is bad. I know that it's especially bad in the media. But here, I don't have one. And I don't think it's for scientists to decide what's the best option. We can just tell you the possibilities, and then society has to decide.

MW: So what message do you hope that this study that you’ve produced gives to ordinary people or governments thinking about ways in which to combat global warming?

AL: We have increased the temperature of the planet by 1 degree Celsius. If we keep the Paris climate agreement, we increase it by another degree. If we don't keep the keep Paris climate agreement, it'll rise up to five degrees above pre-industrial levels by the end of the century, and will continue to increase. So we have to get to zero emissions. What I think this study can convey is how massive the problem is that we have already created now. For example, with sea-level rise, but not only with sea-level rise, and what a massive effort has to be undertaken in order to clean up the mess that we have already produced. Keeping the Paris climate agreement is an absolute must. And even if we keep it, we have cause problems that we have to fix.

MW: Are you hopeful?

AL: I'm hopeful actually. Well, at least I'm hopeful that we keep the Paris climate agreement. Things are moving currently. But you know the population everywhere in every country has to unify, find a consensus that we have to not destroy the planet we live on.

MW: Well, thanks for that message, Professor Levermann. And thanks very much for speaking with me today.

AL: Thanks for listening.

MW: Bye-bye.

AL: Bye-bye.

CH: Anders Levermann is a climate scientist at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, and the lead researcher on a new study about saving the West Antarctic Ice Sheet with artificial snow. We reached him in London, UK. And you can read more about the snow cannon plan at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Indie song]

Fatberg song

CH: Here's BBC host Dallas Campbell, in a sewer in London in 2015.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: There is a beep every four seconds. The persistent running of water is heard in the background]

DALLAS CAMPBELL: Oh God, the smell. Look at the size of that.

SPEAKER: This is a fatberg.

DC: So this is a fatberg? Look at the size of it.

SPEAKER: The worms in it.

DC: It’s got worms in it!

CH: Here's BBC host Wendy Hurrell, also in a sewer in London in 2015.

SOUNDCLIP

WENDY HURRELL: Before the fatberg can be washed down through the sewer system, flushers like Gary have the exhausting job of smashing it up into manageable chunks.

GARY: [WH sighs grossly] You could imagine what it does.

WH: Yeah.

G: And you wouldn’t want to see that in your drain pot, would ya?

WH: Not really.

G: No.

CH: No. The reason for all that literal muckraking was fatbergs. Enormous, ever-growing solid masses of stuff that should go down the toilet, mixed with stuff that really shouldn't — in particular, cooking fat and baby wipes — clogging the sewers. It’s a perfect horror movie villain for the 21st century: huge, remorseless, putrid, spreading around the world, and entirely our fault. But there's a reason "The Fatbergening" hasn't made it to cinemas yet. The reason is that defeating a fatberg doesn't require a dramatic battle. It just requires... not being lazy. And humans tend to struggle with that. Even if we want to make an effort, we're forgetful. Well, to prevent fatbergs in Australia, South Australia's water utility, SA Water, has just released a new song, to jog people's memories about what not to flush. It seems effective. Only problem is it's dangerously memorable. With apologies, here it is.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: repetitive guitar chords]

SINGER: What goes in the loo? Paper, pee, or poo. Your loo will thanks you, and our sewers too. If ain’t the three p’s, pop it in bin, please. And remember just paper, pee, or poo.

CH: Huh. It's not quite as earworm-y as I remembered. In fact, I think I've already forgotten it. But you got the point, I hope. Because under no circumstances are we playing it again.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: The song from the previous clip is playing again]

CH: Well, great. That’s great, now I'll have that song stuck in my head forever. Oh no, I just realized: my mind is the sewer — and that song is a fatberg.

[Music: Percussive jazz]

Part two: BC inheritance fight, truffle book author

BC inheritance fight

Guest: Amar Litt

CH: Fights over the family inheritance can get nasty. And for the Litt siblings, their fight went all the way to the Supreme Court of British Columbia. The recent case centred on six siblings, raised in a traditional Sikh family in Vancouver. When their parents died, the couple left the lion's share of their estate — several million dollars — to their two sons. The rest of the estate — a small fraction of the inheritance — was to be split equally among the four daughters. That didn't sit well with Amar Litt. So she and her three older sisters fought for their fair share of the inheritance in court — and won. We reached Amar Litt in Hope, BC.

MW: Ms. Litt, why was it important to you and your sisters to take your brothers to court over the family inheritance?

AMAR LITT: It was it was a difficult decision. For me and my sister, who just a little bit older than myself, it was not as hard as it was for my two older sisters to come to this decision. But we had helped our parents right from when we were young kids to build the estate. So for us to go to court was not that we were asking for a handout. It was not like our parents had their lives, built the estate, and that when they were gone, we asked for a part of it. We helped to build it. And we wanted fairness because we grew up in a home where my sisters and I, we had to struggle for fairness and recognition our whole lives because my two brothers got recognition and praise because they were boys. The only way my sisters and I got recognition was for working hard. And we worked really hard.

MW: In the will that your parents left, your brothers got 93 per cent of the inheritance of nine million dollars — which meant, of course, that seven per cent of that was split between the four daughters — why do you think your parents did that?

AL: My parents were born and raised in India. And even though we were living in Canada, we continued to be raised in the traditional East Indian way of where daughters don't have freedom. And boys are blessing, and daughters are… I don't want to say disappointment, but yes. So they lived their lives as traditional East Indian parents. And that is the way it was when they were growing up.

MW: So how did you feel when you learned that the estate had been divided in this very unequal way?

AL: [a short sigh] We were very disheartened because we had worked so hard. In those farms, there were four girls working and there were two boys working. And we know — and our brothers know — how much we contributed to our parent’s estate. And we were disheartened because our whole lives we were not treated equally. And we always anticipated that at this point we would be — and we weren't.

MW: What was your brothers’ reaction?

AL: Apparently, they knew what was in the will. To me, that is really hard for me to understand because they know the truth, but they were okay with it. To quote one of my brothers in the discovery, he said we deserved a little bit more. And my other brother said well, you know we know it's not fair, but that's what Mum and Dad wanted.

MW: Your brother told the court from what I understand how he had tried to convince your parents to change the will. Was that any comfort to you?

AL: Um hmm. No, it's not a comfort to me because one, I don't know if that's true. For me personally, there is no relationship any longer between me and my two brothers. Yeah, there's no trust.

MW: Your parents owned and operated several farms in Richmond and the Fraser Valley in BC over the years with an estate of nine million dollars — that was in the will. These farms were obviously very successful. How key were you in your sisters to that success?

AL: Well, all of us like I'm not going to totally discredit my brothers because all of us worked together. When we were children, not one of us ever had a summer off. We started before we had our very own first farm, we worked for other farmers. And we worked every day of the summer. In the spring, my father would pick us up after school. We would change our clothes, and we would go to work in the farm. And all of us were key in building that estate, but there were four girls and there were two boys building that estate.

MW: The judge also pointed out the time and energy you and your sisters spent caring for your parents in the years before their death. Can you tell us about that?

AL: My four sisters and I, we took turns taking care of my parents. My mom was in and out of the hospital in her later years. And it was the daughters that sat beside my mom's bed, and spent the night there in the hospital. And it was myself and my sisters that took care of my father, who had Alzheimer's, who took turns taking care of my father. We loved our parents. And yes, life was difficult. And they were strict. But we are forever grateful and miss them. And we took good care of our parents.

MW: Were your brothers involved in that end of life care?

AL: One of my brothers was less frequently involved than the four of us, and there was one that was not at all.

MW: You mentioned that it wasn't an easy decision to take your brothers to court or to contest the will in court. Can you tell me about that? How painful was that for you and your sisters to have to go through — and your brothers for that matter?

AL: For me, I knew that it was the right thing to do. But the process itself was very painful.

MW: How so?

AL: It was painful to go to court and to have to open up your whole life there in front of your brothers and try to have to justify stuff. They already know. They know that every day that they were working in the farm, we were right there with them. We spent our whole lives justifying and trying to get fairness. But that was to parents that were born and raised in India. But my brothers were very young when we came here, and we had to fight tooth and nail for fairness. And myself and my three sisters would like to say how blessed we are to be in a country and to live in a province that afforded us the opportunity for fairness. Because the only place we were going to get fairness was in a court of law. And we got as close to fair as we could possibly get.

MW: When you say you got close to fair, the judge didn't divide the inheritance equally among your brothers and you. Your brothers got 40 per cent divided two ways. And the daughters got 60 per cent divided four ways. How satisfied are you with that result?

AL: We consider it a huge victory, when you compare to where we were to where we ended up. And we understand that the judge has to take into consideration what the will really said, right? What the will said and to try and even out and take into consideration what my mom and dad had in the will was that that their sons get more, so their sons still did get more. And we're okay with that. We're happy where we are. But one of the main reasons also that we went to court was so that other people — and there are many other people in our situation — and many Indo-Canadian women, yes, but many other people that are in the same situation. We wanted to go to court to give other people the courage to step forward and do that. Because when we originally went and saw Trevor Todd — who was our lawyer — and we said yes, okay, we're going to proceed with this. He told us he said you are the first ones. Of all the women that have come into my office — Indo-Canadian women with a similar situation — we were the first ones.

MW: So what message do you hope other women from your culture take from this case?

AL: That there is no guilt in standing up for yourself and for what is right. Because girls are a child of the marriage the same way as boys are a child of the marriage. And you have just as many rights as your brothers do.

MW: Ms. Litt, thanks very much for speaking with me today.

AL: Thank you. Thank you.

MW: Best of luck.

AL: Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

MW: Bye-bye.

CH: Amar Litt is one of the plaintiffs — along with her three sisters — who won a larger share of her family's inheritance, in a case at the Supreme Court of British Columbia. You can read more about it on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Spanish guitar]

Boris Johnson

CH: Boris Johnson will be leading his country through Brexit — as its next Prime Minister — which means — as you’ll hear — that we'll all have to get used to an upper-class guy who attended both Eton and Oxford saying "Dude". As you might have heard in the news today, Conservative Party members chose him to be their new leader. Prime Minister Theresa May is expected to meet with the Queen tomorrow and resign — making way for Mr. Johnson to become PM. Here's some of what he had to say today, after he won the leadership.

SOUNDCLIP

BORIS JOHNSON: We know the mantra of the campaign that has just gone by. In case you've forgotten it, you probably have. It is deliver Brexit, unite the country, and defeat Jeremy Corbyn. And that is what we're going to do.

[Sound: Clapping and cheering in the background]

BJ: And I know some wag who’s already pointed out that deliver, unite, and defeat was not the perfect acronym for an election campaign — since, unfortunately, it spells dud. But they forgot the final “e,” my friends. “E” for energize. And I say to all the doubters, dude, we are going to energize the country. We're going to get Brexit done on October 31^st. We’re going to take advantage of all the opportunities that it will bring in a new spirit of can-do. And we are once again going to believe in ourselves, and what we can achieve. And like some slumbering giant, we are going to rise and ping off the guy ropes of self-doubt and negativity with better education, better infrastructure, more police, fantastic full-fibre broadband sprouting in every household. We are going to unite this amazing country, and we are going to take it forward. And I thank you all very much for the incredible honour that you've just done me. I will work flat out from now on with my team that I will build I hope in the next few days to repay your confidence. But in the meantime, the campaign is over and the work begins.

CH: That was Boris Johnson speaking today in London, after he won the Conservative Party leadership race in the UK.

[Music: Up-tempo]

Truffle book author

Guest: Ryan Jacobs

CH: They're like the precious jewels of the food world, but easier on your teeth. The best truffles — like the Italian white truffle — can easily cost a thousand dollars a pound. Just a few shavings on your dinner at a fancy restaurant might set you back a hundred bucks. So, with so much money at stake, it stands to reason that some people might resort to dirty tactics to enrich themselves. When investigative journalist Ryan Jacobs went digging into the story, he found corruption throughout the supply chain — theft, sabotage, fakery, even the killing of truffle-hunting dogs. Mr. Jacobs is the author of the new book "Truffle Underground: A Tale of Mystery, Mayhem, and Manipulation in the Shadowy Market of the World's Most Expensive Fungus." We reached him in Chicago.

MW: Mr. Jacobs, what makes truffles so valuable?

RYAN JACOBS: So truffles are extremely scarce. They grow during very short seasons during the autumn and winter. And they're found underneath the ground. And in order to get them, you need an expertly-trained dog to do so. We can cultivate black truffles, which are one of the crown jewels of the trade, but no one's been able to figure out how to cultivate the white truffle — which goes for about six thousand euros per kilo. And the reason that it is is because it's so scarce, it can't be cultivated, and it's really hard to find.

MW: You tasted them for the first time and had something of a revelation. Can you tell us what it was like when you ate truffles for the first time — and perhaps why people are so willing to pay that much to eat them?

RJ: It's almost an indescribable experience. They taste sort of like the Earth — they sort of taste like you know what the mountain air smells like. You could compare it to garlic, but there is another quality of them that you can't really put your finger on. It's sort of this primal, intoxicating thing. And it's really hard to put into words one. One woman who I spoke with, she was a longtime truffle trader. She said it's like trying to describe a primary colour. The flavour is just the best analogy is almost like taking drugs or having sex. It's a completely intoxicating experience.

MW: Most people probably haven't had a chance to taste truffles because they're so incredibly expensive. There's also the problem of there's a lot on the market that are being passed off for the real thing that aren't. How can you tell whether or not you're really having a truffle when you buy truffle oil or the actual mushroom itself?

RJ: Yeah, it's really difficult. So a lot of people in the trade have passed off different species. So there's a black truffle that grows in Sichuan, China that looks identical to the black winter truffle that grows in France and also in Italy. And that is a prized commodity. It costs a lot of money. The one that grows in China is a completely different species. You know, people compare it to sort of like a battered tennis ball — it doesn't it doesn't taste or smell like the black winter truffle, but it looks exactly like it. So it's sort of what they were doing as sort of cutting flower into cocaine and selling these things on the international market as you know these prize commodities when they were really just cheap, basically counterfeit stuff from China. And now you have a similar problem with the white truffle. There's a desert truffle that grows in the sands of Tunisia and several other North African countries, and they're using that now and mix those into batches of the white truffle, which is the most expensive. So it's hard to determine unless you ask really tough questions of your restaurant server, and you're very careful about you know where the truffles are coming from. So the chefs that you know sort of serve the best truffles are usually at Michelin star restaurants, and they are doing a lot of work to sort of figure out whether the sourcing that they have is reliable.

MW: Right, now a lot of people in order to get a little taste of the truffle if they can't afford the actual truffle itself are buying the oil. I mean what kind of fabrications go into making a fake truffle oil?

RJ: Yeah, so basically most of the trouble oil on the market — which is actually most people's connection to truffles in general — that's like sort of the general point of interaction that most American and Canadian consumers have with the truffle market. And truffle oil is not truffle. It's a petroleum derivative, and it basically is a synthetic that kind of smells like truffle — which sort of makes it sort-of-kind-of tastes like truffle — especially if you haven't had real truffle. But it's a very overpowering kind of pungent scent. And it really has nothing to do with real truffle.

MW: Now, you've spent quite a bit of time with people who cultivate the truffles — which as you mentioned is a challenging endeavour, and also a cutthroat endeavour. What kinds of stories did you discover about the competition among those who cultivated and sell it?

RJ: Some of the stories are crazy. In southeastern France, there are basically armed gangs who go in at night into people's truffle groves and steal their truffles. And these guys have been working their whole lives, many years of their lives, trying to get these things to form symbiosis with the roots of their oak trees that they planted many years before — possibly a decade or even 20 years ago. So it's devastating for these guys. And the thieves are really advanced. They use night vision goggles, they usually have rifles or other weapons, they hurl stones at the farmers, they fired warning shots into the sky. Actually, in 2010, a guy ended up shooting a truffle thief in his grove because he was so afraid that he was armed. So this is sort of a serious issue in southeastern France. And then on the Italian side, you have guys who are fiercely competitive about the spots that they go foraging for the truffles. So you have guys who are stealing other people's truffle dogs because they notice on the mountain that they're really good and they want to use them for themselves. And then you have guys who — and this is sort of the most brutal form of sabotage — you know leave meatballs that are laced with strict nine or strychnine, which is a colourless, odorless toxin that you use to remove gophers and that.

MW: This is to poison the dogs?

RJ: Yeah. So once you poison your competitor's dog, that guy is out you know for at least the season because he has to go out, buy another dog, it's an expensive dog, takes a lot of time to train the dog. So it's basic economic sabotage, but it's really sort of devastating for a lot of these truffle hunters.

MW: Wow! Mr. Jacobs, thanks very much for telling us about this. It was nice to speak with you.

RJ: Thank you so much.

CH: Ryan Jacobs is the author of "Truffle Underground: A Tale of Mystery, Mayhem, and Manipulation in the Shadowy Market of the World's Most Expensive Fungus." He was in Chicago. And you can find that interview on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Piano]

John Stewart

CH: You may remember our interview, earlier this month, with a friend of Luis Alvarez. The NYPD detective — who spent months at Ground Zero immediately after 9/11 — had died of cancer. Just weeks before, Mr. Alvarez had travelled to Washington to call on Congress to extrend the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. Today, that happened. The Senate overwhelmingly voted to extend the fund permanently for all first responders who got sick. And the president is expected to sign it. Comedian Jon Stewart has been helping to lead the campaign to support the 9/11 first responders. Here's how Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand introduced Mr. Stewart at a news conference today.

SOUNDCLIP

KRISTEN GILLIBRAND: I have to say this is a man who didn't have to do what he did. He spent all the capital he had gained over a lifetime of success. And he spent it helping the people here.

JOHN STEWART: Yes, I think we can all agree I'm the real hero.

[Sound: Laughing]

JS: Hard not to see it that way. This has been the honour of my life to work with the men and women behind me. Today, it's about the heart, and the integrity of Ray Fifer, and the courage of Luis Alvarez, and the tenacity of John Feel. They lifted this 9/11 community on their shoulders, and they carried them home. And I will always be so proud to have been associated with it. And we can never repay all that the 9/11 community has done for our country. But we can stop penalizing them. And today is that day that they can exhale — because, unfortunately, the pain and suffering of what these heroes continue to go through is going to continue. There've been too many funerals, too many hospices. These families deserve better, and I'm really I'm hopeful that today begins the process of being able to heal without the burden of having to advocate.

CH: That was comedian Jon Stewart talking to reporters in Washington today — in response to news that the U.S. Senate voted to extend the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund for first responders.

[Music: Ambient]

LR: Dutch droppings

CH: On summer nights in the Netherlands, the forests are full of young children who have been blindfolded, dropped off, and left to fend for themselves. According to The New York Times, it's a tradition called "dropping" — a character-building exercise for pre-teens. But that article got a mixed reaction from Dutch readers — some of whom scoffed at the idea that it was a national pastime. But after we told you about it last night, we heard from a listener who had firsthand knowledge of "droppings". Here's a call that found its way to Talkback.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: A connecting beep]

CALLER: Hi, this is [spelling unsure] from Furgus, Ontario. Growing up in the Netherlands, I can tell you I survived several of them. I had a good chuckle about the story. And I had no idea they could be so frightening to other people. We always came home safely. We were always dropped off in a group of people — never by yourself — in the vicinity of the campground that organized it or the youth facility where we were staying. And worst case scenario, you waited it out till the morning came, and you took the train back or the bus because there’s buses and trains everywhere in Holland. So thanks for sharing your story. I had a good chuckle. Thank you. Bye.

CH: Thanks so much for sharing your childhood memory. And to contact us about anything you hear on the program, find us on Twitter and Facebook, both: @cbcasithappens. Our email is: aih@cbc.ca. And Talkback always wants to hear your voice. So call: 416-205-5687 and leave us a message.

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July 24, 2019 episode transcript

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