Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2019

The AIH Transcript for July 11 2019

Hosts: Robyn Bresnahan and Marcia Young

Prologue

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: Hello I'm Robyn Bresnahan, sitting in for Carol Off.

MARCIA YOUNG: Good evening. I'm Marcia Young. This is As It Happens.

[Music]

MY: Tonight...

RB: Can't go along with someone going along. A candidate for Mississippi governor tells a journalist that if she wants to join him on the campaign trail a male colleague will have to join her -- which she finds singularly offensive.

MY: Frightened of their own Chateau. Some residents of Ottawa are scared of what's to come now that the city's historic Chateau Laurier is one step closer to an expansion that's been described as "a travesty."

RB: Covering all the bases and much more. With his hilarious tell-all Ball Four, the late Yankees pitcher Jim Bouton exposed some uncomfortable truths about Major League Baseball and sent his career into extra innings.

MY: The relay of the land. Nearly three decades after the Oka crisis a local developer says he's ready to transfer 60 hectares of the disputed land to the Mohawks of Kanesatake.

RB: An out of body of water experience. When selfie takers descend on a brilliant blue lake in Siberia the nearby power plant issues a warning -- it's blue because of chemicals that are bad for your skin. So going in would be a rash decision.

MY: And calling off the shots. Toronto based musician Damhnait Doyle comes out as a non-drinker and says people in her industry need to find a way to get around always getting another round. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that knows you can catch lightning without the bottle.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: This Mississippi reporter bowed out of Republican campaign trip over demand she bring a male chaperone

Mississippi Reporter

Guest: Larrison Campbell

MY: It's common practice for reporters to follow candidates on the campaign trail and write about their experiences. But this week, one Mississippi reporter made headlines by writing about what it was like to not follow a candidate. That's because a politician in question -- aspiring governor Robert Foster -- told the reporter in question, Larrison Campbell, that if she wanted to do a ride along with him she'd have to bring a male colleague with her. We reached Larrison Campbell in Jackson, Mississippi.

RB: Ms. Campbell what exactly were you told when you requested to do a ride along with this Republican candidate for governor Robert Foster?

LARRISON CAMPBELL: Well you know actually at first everything was fine. You know I talked about it with his campaign director on Sunday afternoon. Everything was locked into place. And at the very end, he came out with this caveat you know we need you to come along with a male colleague and I said you know I am going to have to talk to my editor about this -- but I kind of feel in my gut right now that that's just not going to work. And my editor and I talked it over and we thought it was a fairly sexist request and so I really didn't have any problem going back to them and saying look we can't make this work but you know I'll do some other things that might make you feel comfortable. I mean I feel like I really should say this I really wanted to do this story. You know I was excited to spend a day on the trail.

RB: So what did you offer them to make them feel more comfortable?

LC: A couple things. First you know as a journalist I have a press badge. It's really large. I said I'd wear that all day. His campaign director was going to be around so I said Colton I'll stick by your side. I even said you know if it makes you feel better if you're worried about someone you know launching a smear campaign we'll publish the story within a week of the interview happening so that like you can point to it and say hey this woman you know was here as a journalist. But it didn't work. They drew a really bright line and neither of us were willing to cross that. So the story fell apart.

RB: The candidate Robert Foster invoked the Billy Graham rule. What is that exactly?

LC: You know he has pitched it as sort of a means of self-preservation. But I mean honestly to me it's blatant sexism. You know one of the things that he has said -- I was going to be riding in his truck -- in the last day or so he's kind of come out with this thing I've heard in some interviews where he says you know 'My truck. My rules'. Well it's also you know his problem. He's the one who is concerned about this appearance of impropriety that like having a woman next to him even in a work context would look improper. And you know there are a couple of things that you're saying there. First of all you're saying this woman -- people aren't going to see her as a reporter first. Even though it's in a work context. She's a woman therefore people see her as a sexual object first. And secondly it's his problem. But he put the burden on me by saying I need you to bring essentially a male chaperone around to make me feel comfortable. It is his problem. But he's asking a woman to fix it for him -- to make him feel better -- so he doesn't have to change his antiquated views of you know what a woman represents. And I mean if that's not sexism I do not know what is.

RB: Well let's hear a little bit of what he had to say. This is Robert Foster explaining his rationale for excluding you from covering him in an interview on SuperTalk Mississippi. Here's what he had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBERT FOSTER: The other opponents of mine got a male reporter to ride along with them which is a little bit different situation. In our case, it was a female reporter asking to riding along. And my campaign director is in and out and often sometimes I have to just divide and conquer. And it is just going to be a lot of opportunities where we're in an awkward situation. I didn't want to put myself in and we just simply asked if they could bring a photographer -- a male counterpart -- along with him. And you know perspective is reality in politics. We just wanted to keep things professional. I've always had this same practice in business. I'm not alone with female employees and putting myself in a position to have a 'He Said She Said' moment. I just want to always have that buffer there having a system of professionalism.

RB: How do you respond to that?

LC: I mean first of all this idea of professionalism -- what about me looks unprofessional standing next to him other than the fact that I'm a woman? What about me implies that I could possibly have an improper relationship with them other than that I'm a woman? And you know he brought up in the beginning that male colleagues had ridden along with his two other opponents. And I've had a really long working relationship with this candidate. I broke the story that he was running for governor back in November. And so you know it wasn't just randomness that assigned me to him. I have developed a long working relationship with them and so it was you know quite a bit of a curveball to suddenly be told that I couldn't cover a candidate the way my colleagues were covering other candidates.

RB: He actually has doubled down since all this came out. He has framed this as a case of liberalism versus conservatism. He has said that, quote, "Once again the liberal left and Hollywood are attacking someone for their integrity, professionalism, and Christian beliefs." Do you think that this stance will actually help his campaign?

LC: Probably will. His other two opponents have raised a lot more money than he has. He didn't really have the war chest if you want to call it that to you know get on like Memphis media, to get on Jackson Mississippi media. This is some notoriety -- it will help. And I think his supporters agree with him -- a lot of them do you know. I've seen responses on both sides of the aisle. I'm getting a lot of emails -- yesterday and today -- and there are plenty of people out there you know Mississippians who seem to think that he did the exact right thing that you know in today's world a man needs to watch his back. He needs to be protected.

RB: What do you make of his argument that he brought his wife into this saying that it would be unfair to her that he wants to avoid any situation that may evoke suspicion or compromise his marriage?

LC: I mean how many different ways can he blame women for making him feel uncomfortable. You know it's just another part of it. I think it's deeply disingenuous to put this on a woman whether it's his wife you know making him do this -- making him keep up the appearance of propriety in his marriage -- or whether it's a woman who you know infringes on that just by showing up and doing her job.

RB: People on Twitter are saying this is right out of The Handmaid's Tale.

LC: Yeah. You know that might be a bit of an exaggeration. But I mean I do think that there's just this sense of frustration out there. You know I've heard from a lot of women around the country in the last couple of days who were like 'thank goodness someone's talking about this.' You know politics is an old boys arena and there are certainly other workplace areas that are also sort of boys clubs. And so I think a lot of people are happy that they're getting a chance to talk about this.

RB: Miss Campbell it was good to talk to you. Thank you very much for your time today.

LC: Thanks so much for having me.

MY: Larrison Campbell is a reporter with Mississippi Today. We reached her in Jackson, Mississippi. We requested an interview with Robert Foster -- the candidate -- but we didn't hear back. And we've posted more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Oka Land: Serge Simon

Guest: Serge Simon

MY: Nearly three decades after the Oka crisis, a developer says he's ready to return a portion of the disputed lands. Gregoire Gollin says that in the spirit of reconciliation he's entered into an agreement to hand over 60 hectares of an area called 'The Pines' to the Mohawk Council of Kanesatake. It was an attempt to develop 'The Pines' that set the Oka crisis off in the first place. The idea is for the transfer to take place under the Federal Ecological Gift Program. That means no one would be allowed to develop the land, and Mr. Gollin would be compensated in the form of federal tax credits. Serge Simon is the Grand Chief of the Mohawk Council of Kanesatake. We reached him in Kanesatake which is just west of Montreal.

RB: Grand Chief Simon what did you think when this developer came to you with this proposal?

SERGE SIMON: First I wasn't sure what to think. How would I handle such a thing? How would I present it to the community? Would the community accept such a thing under those conditions? So what we did is we drafted up a memorandum of understanding. It's not an agreement -- a binding agreement -- it's just an understanding that Mr. Gollin promises he'll put his lands aside for the next two or three years until we hash this out with the federal government. Now Mr. Gollin being a landowner and non-native, he's subject for taxation. Okay there's this big spat with the community here with those lands being -- you know it's part of our small commons, it's a big historical fight that we've had for 150 years. And the opportunity is there for a community -- at least to right that breach. So Mr. Gollin recognizes that it is native land. It's our land. And that he would like to just simply be compensated and be on his way.

RB: Why is this particular 60 hectares of pine forest -- which would be given to your people under this ecological gift program -- why is that land so important to your people?

SS: Well for one thing I remember my family talking about how my grandfather -- and myself personally -- was one of the foreman's that was actually helping to plant those pines a long time ago. And it has a significance to our community. It's where we gathered in our small commons, it's where we pastured our animals. There was a lot of traditional activity there -- (it was) where we played lacrosse. It was a big gathering place. And there was also wood cutting in certain parts of the common lands where we would harvest hardwood, build our homes with the lumber. And so all those lands are all part of that.

RB: It sounds like there are some people in your community who were a wee bit skeptical of this. Caitlyn Richard protested against some of the same developments in 2017. And she told one of our colleagues that Mr. Gollin's offer sounds too good to be true. We also talked to the Mohawk activist Ellen Gabriel. And here's what she had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

ELLEN GABRIEL: Well first of all I want to make clear that Mohawk Council has not released what that agreement entailed. There was no free [inaudible] consent given to the community regarding this.

RB: Grand Chief Simon what would you say to that? Why hasn't there been more consultation with the community?

SS: Well for one thing what slowed us down was the flood this year. Not that it's an excuse but it did. And the consultation with the community is over a hypothetical right now. There was no rush. It's a MOU -- it's a memorandum of understanding, and we were preparing a public meeting soon so that we can inform the community about it and give them copies of the MOU and just reassure them that there's nothing that commits us to anything. And Mr. Gollin -- well he's making this promise to bring this land back to us, I mean what could be so wrong with that?

RB: But can you see why some people would say it sounds too good to be true?

SS: No I don't. All they have to do is just come knocking on my door, give me a call, and if you want to know more about it instead of speculating I'm right here. Just talk to me. Come and talk to me.

RB: Are there any strings attached though? I mean would there be a condition that Mr. Gollin could sell some of that land, build any homes on the land -- around?

SS: No. No. He did ask at one point. He wanted that as part of the MOU and I refused it. I said no, I can't do that -- I can't do that without the consent of the community. So that part was taken out of the MOU. And all that's left there is an understanding that we are just going to hold off, no lands are going to be developed. But the ecological gift that he's ready to give back would give him a tax break so he can wait. So it gives us time...

RB: He's going to benefit from this as well?

SS: Well if it suits him right there and my community actually achieves its goal of reacquiring those pines and protecting them from any future development that might threaten the peace of the area...why not? Why not?

RB: The developer -- Mr. Gollin -- says he's motivated by the spirit of reconciliation. Do you believe him that this is in the spirit of reconciliation?

SS: With Mr. Gollin yes. He has that. You know he's of a certain age right now -- I think he's in 70s -- and you know he's kind of retired, and you know he's lived his life. And he invested in this land a long time ago not knowing the underlying historical grievances. He's not a evil man. And he wants to help. What's so wrong about that? There are people in the world like that you know. Not all people are evil minded. Not everybody is out to get us. So yeah I was shocked myself when this came about. And I'm looking at him like 'what's your angle here?' And I approached it with caution and a little bit of mistrust, but over time I got to know him and his actions were sincere.

RB: It seems like it's going to be a little bit more red tape than just this developer handing over the land to you. What have you heard from Ottawa about the possibility that this deal might qualify for the ecological gift program?

SS: Well it's under the Canadian Conservancy program of Canada. So we still need to get some details from them whether we qualify under that program. And it has to go back to the community -- if the community accepts it under those terms. But unfortunately we have members of our own community right now that are slashing and expanding in the pines right now and nobody's saying anything about that. I don't see Ellen or anybody else you know going and pointing the finger at those guys who are putting pot shops up in the pines.

RB: For you personally you were talking about your grandfather and his memories of the pines. What would it mean for you to have this land back?

SS: Well it would almost be like bringing my grandfather back. You know at a young age my grandfather -- he became the man of the house at the age of 11. He lost his father very young. So I could just picture him like working there because he was the only Mohawk there who spoke Mohawk, English, and French. So he could communicate between everybody. And to me -- it's finally -- we could put this one part of our history to rest.

RB: Thank you for taking the time to talk to us.

SS: Anytime Robyn.

RB: Okay bye bye.

SS: You bet. Take care.

MY: Serge Simon is the Grand Chief of the Mohawk Council of Kanesatake. We reached him in Kanesatake.

[Music]

Musicians and Drinking

Guest: Damhnait Doyle

MY: For people in all kinds of professions, a drink can take the edge off after work. But for many musicians it's part of the work. You drink before a show. Sometimes during. Definitely after. And when you're trying to get the creative juices flowing, you get the booze flowing first. But not for singer-songwriter Damhnait Doyle...not anymore. She gave up drinking almost a year ago. And yesterday she wrote an op-ed for The Toronto Star calling out her industry to do more to support people who choose not to drink. We reached Mr. Doyle in Huntsville, Ontario.

RB: Ms. Doyle before you quit, how much did drinking feel like a part of your job?

DAMHNAIT DOYLE: I would say it felt like a huge part of my job. As musicians -- I mean it would be a shocking situation to be backstage and somebody wasn't drinking. Very much out of the norm. You go to work -- if you're in a bar or if you're in a theater -- after sound-check, basically at 3:00 or 4:00 o'clock, you're looking at bottles of wine and beer and whiskey perhaps. And that is why you know to this day -- in this year of not drinking I will absolutely sneak in my you know six pack of non-alcoholic beer to whatever gig I'm seeing or playing because it is everybody drinks.

RB: When was the first time that you used booze before a show? And what effect did it have?

DD: Well I remember the first time I didn't have alcohol before a show. It was my first headlining show in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island. I was so nervous. I literally threw up in a bucket beside the stage. And then the next show I believe it was -- I can't remember where it was -- somebody bought me a shot of tequila right before I went on stage and it felt like "Ahh! Ta-Dah!" That I'm not nervous anymore. It kind of gave me this adrenaline boost. And what I realized now it is like an artificial sense of comfort. It's kind of like people who are athletes and carry around a rabbit's foot or wear the same socks for every race. You kind of think it's part of what gives you the magic. And I know now of course that in fact not only does it give you the magic, it takes the magic away.

RB: You wrote in your piece in The Toronto Star that musicians don't drink like normal people. What did you mean by that?

DD: Oh I mean any excuse to drink. I mean really when you're on the road you're basically onstage doing what you love for one hour and then there are 23 other hours in the day to do whatever it is that you want. But oftentimes you're staying in a motel/hotel. It's not like you can play with your children or you can go for a nice walk. You kind of get caught in this rut where the thing to do is drink. If you're meeting a band at an airport you're meeting them in the airport bar, you're going to have drinks, then you're going to check into the hotel, and then you know before you go to the gig "Okay I'll meet you in the hotel bar." And then before the gig you'll have a drink. You'll have a drink on stage. And then afterwards, you'll go to a bar and have a drink. I mean that is the standard culture of being a musician.

RB: And was it just the musicians or was it everyone in the industry around you as well you were noticing?

DD: Oh everybody in the industry for sure.

RB: A lot of people when they stop drinking they talk about having a rock bottom moment. Did you have one of those?

DD: I did not. And I think that's why I felt it was important for me to talk about it. I don't identify as an alcoholic. I don't identify as somebody who had that rock bottom. But I really believe I'm like a lot of people out there -- a lot of musicians, a lot of women, a lot of people who are just kind of sick of this mindless ingrained pattern where you go out for dinner and drinking is a part of it. You go to work and drinking is a part of it. Drinking is a part of it. And people oftentimes don't know how to get themselves out of this kind of washing machine cycle where -- especially as you get older. Like my body just was not recovering from drinking. I wasn't exercising. I have two kids who are five and six and take up a lot of my energy and time and I just wanted to feel better. I mean honestly I wanted to physically feel better and that is why I quit drinking. I wasn't anticipating the mental benefits. So to make that realization and to feel as good as I do today which is a million times better than I did a year ago and without having a rock bottom, without getting a DUI, without getting arrested, without having a personal crisis. I didn't have that. I just didn't want to drink anymore.

RB: So how did those same people who you used to share tequila shots with and have beers at shows and industry events -- how did they react to the non-drinking Damhnait?

DD: Well for me the first month was challenging -- doing the first gig -- because your mind has a well-worn path of how these things go. So it was just re-learning a new habit. And now I'm the person who gets drink tickets and beer tickets and my friends get them from me. So I mean I'm certainly not out there going 'oh you should quit drinking.' I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is if you're on the fence about it, you want to explore it, it's a beautiful beautiful place to be. But I am still super fun. I still stay up till 3 o'clock after shows hanging out and having a great time. But all of my friends and all of my peers have been so incredibly supportive. Within 45 minutes of me sharing this article to my Facebook my friend Tara and her husband they're part owner of the Horseshoe (Horseshoe Tavern in Toronto) -- they've signed on, they're already looking at where to get non-alcoholic beer. So it's pretty incredible the change that can happen so quickly once you know it's kind of your responsibility to do something about it. So I'm really excited to not have to sneak in my non-alcoholic beer to the Horseshoe. [Chuckles]

RB: And just for those who don't know, the Horseshoe Tavern is a pretty famous music venue here in Toronto. For those people who say well what's wrong with just tap water -- I mean you can go to anywhere and you can have some tap water where you go -- what do you say to that?

DD: I wouldn't want them to go to a bar and have tap water as well. I mean why should some people have options and other people not? I mean if you go to a bar, you can have an option of any spirit that you want, any wine, and any beer. We're just asking for one option as opposed to zero.

RB: It was good to talk to you. Thank you very much for your time today.

DD: Thank you so much. I really really really appreciate you helping me get this message out. Thank you.

MY: That was musician Damhnait Doyle. We reached her in Huntsville, Ontario. For more on this story, go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Part 2: Château Laurier Vote

Château Laurier Vote

Guest: Jeff Leiper

MY: "Like a Travelodge rear-ended a castle." "A post-modernist mess." "An imminent act of vandalism." Those are just a few of the many insults that have been hurled at a proposed addition to Ottawa's historic Chateau Laurier. And now that project is one step closer to becoming a reality. This afternoon, Ottawa City Council cleared the way for the Chateau's owner -- Larco Investments -- to proceed with its controversial plan. And voters listening in at city hall were not amused.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: The...Councillor Brockington.

[Crowd booing]

MY: Councillor Jeff Leiper seconded the motion opposing the Chateau Laurier addition. That motion was initially defeated yesterday. And today, council moved not to reconsider its defeat. We reached Jeff Leiper in Ottawa.

RB: Councillor Leiper -- it's over, this controversial expansion is going ahead. What's your reaction?

JEFF LEIPER: Well first of all Robyn I don't want to accept that it is over at this point. I think those who are opposed to the design that Larco has put forward -- we'll continue to pursue the various different avenues that are open and continue pressure on the federal government. Consumer backlash against the Larco chain. So this is not quite over. City council's role appears to be at an end. I don't understand why council made the decision it did. I'm deeply disappointed in it and I don't think it reflects the wishes of the people who elected us.

RB: For those people across the country who have not seen the renderings of this expansion, what does it look like?

JL: I call it the "Chateau Supermax." It is so completely out of character with the Chateau Laurie -- and so unlike really anything around it as to defy description. It is a brutalist box that is attached to a fairy-tale hotel. And it surprises me the council took the decision it did when I heard nothing positive about the design from any of the councillors who had been addressing this in the past couple of weeks. It's gobsmacking.

RB: Indeed. Let's play a clip from one of your fellow councillors, Laura Dudas, who said yesterday she hates the design as much as anybody else. But she voted against your motion anyways.

SOUNDCLIP

LAURA DUDAS: I am concerned that if this motion passes it strengthens the owner's argument that the city is acting in bad faith. And worse, when this goes to the tribunal and court as Larco has quite clearly indicated it will pursue -- so there's no question about that -- we could end up with a much worse design than what is before us today.

RB: What is your response to Councillor Dudas' -- this argument that your motion would simply have sent the city to court and might not have solved the problem anyway?

JL: I think it definitely would have landed in court. But by voting against Councillor Fleury and my motion, we've definitely put an end to the possibility of something better -- at least as far as city council is concerned. The end of the road is a vote against our motion. And I'm disappointed that so many councillors determined to put the end here rather than give us another day in court. Another fighting chance.

RB: Why do you think they did that?

JL: I don't know. Certainly a lot of us are keen to have lots of tourist activity in the city. We want to help the hotel industry in our city. But the overwhelming political feedback that we've been getting is that this design is simply unacceptable. And not just public reaction, there's a risk sometimes that politicians are going to be populist -- simply going to be swayed by the biggest and loudest voices. But not only were residents right across Canada opposed to this design -- we also had heritage experts. We had architects telling us that there is a better way. And we chose not to listen to any of those. We chose not to listen to the people we represent. We chose not to listen to experts who were giving us alternative ways of looking at it. And that is extraordinarily disappointing to me.

RB: You Tweeted an image earlier this week from the movie "Jaws" with your own play on it saying "We're gonna need a bigger inbox" -- alluding to the fact that you've been getting so many messages about this addition to the Chateau Laurier. Why do you think people are so emotional about this?

JL: It is a beautiful vista. It is a beautiful building. People are emotionally attached to it. There is so little whimsy and so little romance in the architecture and the public realm of our city. And when you have something that is whimsical, when you have something that is romantic that brings your eyes up, that gives you reason to aspire --you want to hold on to that. And the absolutely brutal architecture that has been proposed that would block the view of that building, I think intuitively strikes most Canadians as something that should not be moved ahead with. And I hope that Larco listens to that. They may have city council permission to build what they're going to build but I hope that they choose a different path anyways.

RB: There's been criticism in the past that some councillors and the mayor are too cozy with developers in the city of Ottawa. What do you think this decision will do to that perception?

JL: I don't think it helps the perception obviously. And in a vote like this where again I don't understand the investment of some councillors and the mayor in helping Larco -- residents cannot be blamed for scratching their heads and for wondering whether in fact the rumor and innuendo is true.

RB: And what do you say to those fellow councillors who pointed out that it would be nice if people got this up in arms about things like affordable housing and homelessness?

JL: You know I think it's interesting we've been seen votes that are closer and closer -- we don't see the same lopsided votes that we saw in the last term of council as other councillors come on board and as people see the possibility of change the engagement with City Hall is only going to grow. This may be a lost battle at city council on one issue, but I hope that people see the progress that we've made in getting to closer votes and want to continue to engage with that especially on issues that are as critical to us as climate change and as housing and affordable transit. Those are all critical issues and I would love to capture the energy that people demonstrated on this issue to bring it to the table on those.

RB: If this addition in that you hate so much is built, will you close your eyes every time you go past it?

JL: It will be a reminder and it will be a generational reminder. And I don't think for a generation we're going to be able to pass the building by without remembering what might have been. You know no building is forever. The Chateau McDonald l think in Edmonton had a -- again -- really brutal addition added to it. That was recently knocked down. The best we can hope for is that this is a short lived edition if in fact it does get built.

RB: Councillor Leiper thanks so much for joining us today.

JL: Thank you Robyn.

MY: Jeff Leiper is an Ottawa city councillor. The city's mayor, Jim Watson, was among those who voted against Mr. Leiper's motion to stop a controversial addition to the Chateau Laurier. We asked the mayor's office for an interview but he declined our request. If you want to see a photo of the proposed addition, check out our Twitter page @CBCAsItHappens.

[Music]

Baroque Dad

MY: Michael Goodson calls it "Baroque Dad." It's a big very detailed painting that the Ottawa artist has done of his father Bob's face. And when he was creating the piece he drew inspiration from Rembrandt. Next week, Mr. Goodson's painting will hang near that Dutch painter's masterpieces at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. "Baroque Dad" was chosen from thousands of applicants to be part of the museum's 'Long Live Rembrandt' exhibit -- marking the 350th anniversary of his death. That exhibit is made up of works by artists inspired by Rembrandt. Here's part of Michael Goodson's conversation with the CBC Sandra Abma.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL GOODSON: It's surreal to be in that particular building. There are Rembrandts in the next room... and there will be my painting. I haven't seen it yet. That'll be on Monday. The opening is on Monday. There's a guy named Ernst van de Wetering who is the head of the Rembrandt Research Project and I'm hoping that he'll attend the show because I'd really like to have him see my painting. And...

SANDRA ABMA: What would you like to talk to him about?

MICHAEL GOODSON: I'd like to get his impression of it because he is sort of the world's foremost expert in Rembrandt and he's a painter too. But I'm also secretly hoping that he'll let me photograph him. And then try a painting like this of him because he would be as close to a living Rembrandt as you would have. He's in his 80s now. So yeah. But we'll see. He may not even be there and I mean he may not be interested.

SANDRA ABMA: You weren't doing the painting to enter contests.

MICHAEL GOODSON: No.

SANDRA ABMA: You were just doing it in...tell me what does Rembrandt mean to you?

MICHAEL GOODSON: The late Rembrandt self-portraits -- there are actually about four or five that I've isolated that I'm really excited about learning from. There's kind of a crossover where it's not just the illusion of three dimensionality by painting shadows and light but also using the texture of the paint to create the illusion of the texture of a human face as if it were actually coming out of the canvas. And that always impressed me that he was able to do both at the same time -- both the texture and the illusion using light and shadow.

SANDRA ABMA: And so why did you want to use that when you decide to paint your father?

MICHAEL GOODSON: Honestly the main reason it was my father is because he's one of the few people I know who doesn't need to be airbrushed when I'm painting him. He's not vain at all. He's quite happy to let me paint him as he is and not sort of pretty it up and that's exactly what I wanted to do.

MY: That was Ottawa artist Michael Goodson speaking with the CBC Sandra Abma about his painting "Baroque Dad" which will be part of an exhibit at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam.

[Music]

Jim Bouton Obit

Guest: Terry Cannon

RB: When it comes to books about baseball, books about sports in general, actually -- former Yankee pitcher Jim Bouton's is one of the biggest and one of the best. In the 1990s when the New York Public Library released its picks for the top books of the century his "Ball Four" was the only sports book on the list. But back when it was published decades ago, it got some pretty scathing reviews from people in professional baseball. During the 1969 season Mr. Bouton took notes and when he published them as "Ball Four" it was seen by some -- as the New York Times put it, as "a scandalous betrayal of the baseball clubhouse." Mr. Bouton died yesterday at his home in Massachusetts. He was 80. In 1983 Mr. Bouton spoke with the CBC about when he started to think about writing a book.

SOUNDCLIP

JIM BOUTON: The idea to really write it came the year before. I actually did it in 1968. I was sitting having a drink with Leonard Schecter who was the editor of "Ball Four" and I was telling him some funny stories from the year before and he said you know you ought to keep a diary of what it's like playing in the major leagues because I think other people would be entertained by stories that you've entertained me with. That's really where the idea to write the book came with a concrete idea. Before then it was always just sort of a thought in the back of my head. Every time I would laugh on the buses or in the bars or someplace or in the dugout or bull pens, I'd say to myself gee somebody ought to write a book about this. And I didn't know at the time that it would be me.

MY: Terry Cannon was friends with Jim Bouton. His organization, the Baseball Reliquary, honoured Mr. Bouton in 2001. We reached Terry Cannon in Pasadena, California.

RB: Mr. Cannon first of all condolences on the loss of your friends.

TERRY CANNON: Yes. Thank you it was very sad news about Jim Bouton's passing. It wasn't unsurprising because he had been in ill health for the last couple of years but he's left us with a great book and lots of memories.

RB: And when you think about that book -- Ball Four -- where does it rank when it comes to the best books about sports in time?

TC: Well I think historically you'd have to rank it pretty close to the top in terms of it being a real revolutionary document. When it came out in 1970, it was one of the very first sports books that took athletes kind of off of their pedestals. There had been you know decades of hero worship of ballplayers and the ballplayers were protected to some extent by the establishment and the writers. And it was the first book that really depicted what ballplayers were like. And it also showed very importantly the pettiness of the owners toward the players. I mean this was the era before baseball free agency. And the disparity between what the owners were making in baseball and the players was very dramatic. I think Bouton really you know pointed that out very importantly in the book.

RB: It was pretty controversial when it first came out. It was a bit of a tell all -- talking about how players routinely cheated on their wives, it had stories about specific players -- like Mickey Mantle apparently played hung over, he was cruel to kids who wanted his autograph. What kind of reaction did it get from the baseball world?

TC: Well the reaction at first was pretty negative from some places. I mean the baseball establishment absolutely hated the book because they didn't want the baseball fans to see what the ballplayers were really like. And I think that there were a few ballplayers that were definitely offended. But I think there were probably more ballplayers who ultimately would appreciate the honesty that Bouton wrote the book with. But it certainly was controversial and I think it was a great tribute to Bouton that he withstood that controversy. He stuck by what he wrote, took responsibility for what he wrote, and ultimately time has shown that it's a classic work.

RB: Was he still playing baseball when the book was published -- when it came out?

TC: Yes. He was finishing up his first part of his major league career with the Houston Astros. The book deals with his 1969 season with the Seattle Pilots. And then he was traded to the Astros. He had of course pitched for the Yankees in the mid-1960s, and basically had injured his arm and was no longer able to throw the fastball like he did with the Yankees. So by the time he's with the Pilots and the Astros in 1969 and 1970 he became a knuckleball pitcher. And then later after he retired from baseball in 1970 -- in the mid-70s -- he made a comeback and pitched with the Portland Mavericks. And then finally came back in the late-70s and pitched briefly with the Atlanta Braves. So that's why he got his nickname "The Bulldog." He was tenacious and didn't want to give up this game that he loved and was so passionate about.

RB: But I can only imagine what it would have been like in the dugout seeing as he dug up all of this information on people and you know how players would have reacted to him.

TC: Well the players knew he was writing something. He was always reading books on buses and he was taking notes. He used to write a lot of the material on just whatever he could have -- scraps of paper, the backs of ticket stubs, and was always writing and jotting down notes. And so I think some of the players knew what he was up to and the fact that he was writing about them. You know even though he may have made a few critical remarks, a lot of his writing was very affectionate. He sided with these players -- you know even the ones who are who are the most flawed, he saw them as just wonderful characters and their idiosyncrasies and quirky behavior...he was really drawn to that.

RB: You got to know him as a friend in later years. What was he like?

TC: Well he's a wonderfully generous man. The way I got to know him was that my organization the Baseball Reliquary which is a kind of an anti-establishment Hall of Fame -- it is called the Shrine of the Eternals. He was inducted into our organizational Hall of Fame in 2001 based in Pasadena, California. He flew out to accept the honour in person. He loved the organization. It really fit his spirit and temperament. We honour a lot of baseball's radicals and rabble rousers -- and he's right at the top of the list. And he really appreciated that. After that we did a couple of other events with him over the years. He was just very appreciative of what we were doing. He was a real nonconformist and loved people who were passionate about baseball as he was.

RB: And apparently he was very funny.

TC: Wonderful sense of humor that really drew us together because our organization loves to be irreverent and he loved to be irreverent and you know very humorous guy. Just a wonderful guy to be around. It's like when you read the book Ball Four so many people who've read that book over the years said they felt like they knew him as a friend after reading that book. That's how powerful his writing was in that book that you felt like this was a guy who could have easily been your next door neighbour.

RB: Mr. Cannon thank you very much for taking the time to remember your friend.

TC: Thank you. Thank you.

MY: That was Terry Cannon speaking about his friend -- former Yankees pitcher and author -- Jim Bouton. We reached Mr. Cannon in Pasadena, California. Jim Bouton died yesterday. He was 80 years old.

[Music]

Lake Ash Dump

MY: In videos of the breathtaking Siberian lake, the images slowly dissolve into one another. In real life, you might slowly dissolve into the lake. People have been flocking to this one spot near Novosibirsk to take glamour selfies. The attraction is the lake which is such an other worldly colour that it forces you to search for synonyms for "very blue." Say, "amazing azure" "unbelievable ultra-marine" "stunning cerulean". Thing is though the lake doesn't just send you to a thesaurus, it could also send you to the hospital or at least the dermatologist because that colour doesn't come naturally. It's the result of a whole bunch of waste from a power plant hence the lake's name which translates as "Lake Ash Dump." If you needed any further information the company that owns the plant is generously and urgently offering it. "We beg you not to fall into the ash dump in the pursuit of selfies," pleads a post on social media. Adding "That this is the biggest danger." Oh yes: that's just the biggest danger in and around the lake. There are so many others including skin rashes, dry throat, and potentially toxic vapor. Also the bottom is a sludge so thick that the company warns, quote, "Getting out of the reservoir alone is almost impossible." Also, it stinks. So Instagrammers: If you're saving up to travel to 'Lake Ash Dump' maybe find another backdrop for your selfies because in this case bad things come to those who wade.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

July 11, 2019 Episode Transcript

More Stories Like This