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The AIH Transcript for July 1, 2019

Hosts: Susan Bonner and Karen Gordon

Prologue

SUSAN BONNER: Hello I'm Susan Bonner, sitting in for Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening I'm Karen Gordon. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

KG: Tonight...

SB: Then the tear gas begins to fly. Protesters in Hong Kong mark the anniversary of the return to Chinese rule by storming the legislature. We reach an activist as the police moved in to clear the crowd outside.

KG: Safe harbor. The crew of a rescue ship says their captain had no choice but to break an Italian law making it illegal for her to bring 40 rescued migrants into ports.

SB: Draw your own conclusions. An editorial cartoonist wonders whether he lost his job because of the way he drew Donald Trump. But the paper's owners say their readers were just ready for a change.

KG: Call and response. A New York detective died demanding fairness for his fellow 9/11 responders. Tonight, we talk to a friend who's promising to carry on that fight.

SB: Nesty business. Our guest calls the huge Alabama homes "super" and he promises you won't be sorry, unless you do something to disturb the 15,000 wasps buzzing around inside.

KG: And...spiraling out of control. Two of the world's biggest frozen potato sellers knock the legal starch out of one another in the race to dominate the market for French fries with a trademark twirl. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that knows if at first you don't succeed, fry fry again.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Michael de Adder opens up about being dumped by N.B. newspapers after viral Trump cartoon

Hong Kong Protest

Guest: Alexas Ng

KG: Demonstrators in Hong Kong have been in the streets for weeks -- protesting a controversial extradition law. Today, on the anniversary of the city's return to China, hundreds of those demonstrators took their fight to the Legislative Council building. They smashed through a glass facade and stormed inside there. There they occupied the chamber for hours -- destroying pictures and spray painting slogans on the wall. Police eventually cleared them out of the building and the area around it using teargas and shields. Alexas Ng is a university student taking part in today's demonstrations outside the building. We reached her earlier today as police moved in and protesters were preparing to leave.

SB: Alexas what is the scene like outside the legislative council building right now?

ALEXAS NG: It was quite intense. But right now people are waiting. So as far as we have just heard, most of the people inside the building have retreated. But there are still around 20 people inside. So there's about a thousand people -- or a bit more than that -- outside the building (who) are trying to support the protesters inside.

SB: And how are they expressing their support? I understand there was some chanting before.

ALEXAS NG: Yeah just now a lot of people were chanting "Hong Kong people add oil." So basically just to trying to fill them up.

SB: They're saying "Hong Kong people add oil?".

ALEXAS NG: It is Hong Kong [speaks in Cantonese] in Cantonese -- so it's an expression of support in Cantonese.

SB: You were not there when protesters broke through the barricades, broke through the glass to enter the building. What do you make of that decision to do that?

ALEXAS NG: I think this year we particularly know that we don't condemn people who protest in a different means than what we do. I am myself a peaceful protester. I did nothing but sit and watch or just chant or march or something. But I think in general Hong Kong people are very understanding and supportive of each other using different means. So we try to treat people with compassion. Not everyone wants to barge in the council and make certain damage, but we support their motive and their purpose.

SB: Will this lead to divisions among the protesters?

ALEXAS NG: I think that there were certain divisions. Some people apparently disagree with what they do. Like in previous protests -- the more peaceful protesters might be divided with the protesters who are trying to use more radical means. But this year in particular I think people are quite united because there are a lot of different messages and statements and people trying to tell each other how we are doing things differently for the same purpose. So it is very encouraging I would say.

SB: The demonstrators today -- the ones that broke through and went into the legislative building, they believe that this is the last day to make their voices heard. Why?

ALEXAS NG: There are a few reasons. One of which is that it is the first of July -- it is the day of the handover. It's very symbolic. But I think also because it has already been a few weeks since the first protest against the extradition bill. So there were very peaceful protests. There were different kinds of events that happened. But there hasn't been any very positive or even responsive response from the government.

SB: But Carrie Lam has said that the extradition bill has been put on pause. The government is not doing any more work on the bill and it's set to expire next year. Why is that not enough for protesters?

ALEXAS NG: For me personally -- I can't speak for all the other protesters -- but I think it's not enough because they could easily restart the legislation of this extradition bill again -- unless they promise to withdraw it completely, but they refuse to do so.

SB: The protesters inside the building have made many statements today. What are they saying?

ALEXAS NG: So one of them is that they feel like the government has never answered to people's demand. They aren't really talking to people. So they reiterated four or five demands -- withdrawing calling the previous protest a riot and releasing the arrested protestors and all that. And they are also saying -- some of them say they wouldn't leave unless the government talks to them.

SB: Where are the police now?

ALEXAS NG: We could see some police in Long Wo Road -- which is further away, a few blocks away, from the legislative building.

SB: Well police have issued a statement saying they want the protesters to clear the building or face what they describe as appropriate force. The Hong Kong government has labeled the protesters actions as extreme violence. Are you worried this evening may end in violence?

ALEXAS NG: We are worried -- actually most of the protesters inside the legislative council have left. But there are about 20 of them still inside. But actually everyone said that we would -- a lot of people saying that we would all leave, like the protesters, outside the building at midnight -- which is now. And there have been just people chanting if you heard from the background that we leave together.

SB: Why have you decided to join this protest?

ALEXAS NG: Oh that's very complicated. I feel like I believe in what they do although I don't believe in their means. So this is what I can do without breaking the laws -- standing outside with them. And also there are people saying it's good to have more people outside to show that people in Hong Kong still care. And we are still expressing our opinion in this way.

SB: Alexas can you describe a little bit more of what it looks like -- what people are doing around you?

ALEXAS NG: Because it was established that we would leave at midnight -- so some people are already leaving. But there are also people in the front -- so they are closer to the police, so people are chanting to say 'we should all leave together so that it is safer.'

SB: Alexas! Is everyone all right?

ALEXAS NG: They say they have been tear gassed. But we are not entirely sure. But...people say yes I saw tear gas. I'm quite far away from the tear gas. But I am a little bit worried. I'm already moving to the back because the tear gas is spreading over. My eyes are in tear. So I'm moving. I'm moving with my friends towards the back and I'm feeling better.

SB: The people in the front -- do they show any signs that they will move?

ALEXAS NG: I think they're moving because with the tear gas it is really difficult for anyone to stay. And we don't have protective gear. Everyone is leaving actually.

SB: Alexas we don't want to keep you in the middle of this. We'll stay in touch. Be safe.

ALEXAS NG: Of course. Thank you very much. Goodbye.

KG: Alexas Ng is as a university student in Hong Kong. We reached her outside the legislative council building earlier today. Hong Kong's leader Carrie Lam held a rare predawn news conference criticizing the occupation. She called it violent and said that it had shocked and saddened people.

SOUNDCLIP

CARRIE LAM: This is something that we should seriously condemn because nothing is more important than the rule of law in Hong Kong. So I hope the community at large will agree with us that with these violent acts that we have seen, it is right for us to condemn it and hope society will return to normal as soon as possible.

KG: That's Hong Kong's chief executive Carrie Lam speaking to reporters before dawn today in Hong Kong.

[Music]

Michael de Adder

Guest: Michael de Adder

KG: Michael de Adder's recent cartoon criticizing U.S. President Donald Trump has probably gotten more attention than anything else he's drawn in his 20 year career. You'd think that might be followed by celebration. But the editorial cartoonist says that instead he's endured a series of headaches. Shortly after he made the drawing -- which shows the president with two bodies of people who died trying to cross the border into the U.S. -- his contract with the Irving-owned papers in New Brunswick was terminated. We reached Mr. de Adder in Halifax.

SB: Michael the company that owns these newspapers -- Brunswick News -- says, ending your contract has nothing to do with that cartoon of Donald Trump. Do you buy that?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: Well it's a bit of a "he said-she said" -- and with all "he said-she said's" there's probably a middle ground someplace. But I spent 17 years at BNI and there wasn't a single day -- a weekday -- or Saturdays that one of my cartoons wasn't in a paper in New Brunswick. I've always filled in where needed. And if I had a cartoon axed, I've replaced that cartoon. So even when I was axed, I fulfilled my duties. I mean it was difficult to work for. There were taboo subjects that you couldn't touch.

SB: When you say "axed" -- you mean that you submit a cartoon and it's rejected?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: Yeah it's rejected. I mean in one year I was axed 54 times in one year. And for each one of those cartoons that I was axed, I replaced. So I mean I always did my job. One of the biggest bones of contention, the only subject actually that I know was taboo and I was told, was Donald Trump.

SB: Who told you Trump was taboo?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: Well the editor that I was dealing with at the time. And then some of the arguments would get heated. And then there came a point where I felt like I might get fired if I risk sending another Trump in.

SB: Can you describe for us the cartoon in question? We're going to put it on our website.

MICHAEL DE ADDER: Well I drew the father and daughter who drowned crossing the water down in the border of the United States -- one of the pictures that appeared in all the newspapers. And I drew Donald Trump in a golf cart going, "Do you mind if I play through?" Meaning that he's busy golfing and he's talking to two people that are deceased. I mean it was a hard hitting cartoon.

SB: You issued it on social media?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: Yeah I posted on social media. But with the Irving’s, I always had a good relationship. I mean it was fraught with tension at times but I always did my job. So I had no reason on Thursday to think there was anything wrong. So I posted that cartoon. I don't know it just immediately took off. It sort of went supernova. So for the next 24 hours I thought "This is crazy!" I'm having the day that cartoonists dream of. And on Friday -- you know just 24 hours after it appear -- I get a call from the guy that I deal with every day, who I had a good relationship with, and he told me I was fired. And I said "No. Go away. I'm not fired." And he goes, "No. You are." And I asked, why? And he didn't give me a reason. I said, is it cost? And he goes, no. And I said, is it gross incompetence? And he goes, no. And I go, is it my online presence? Which I was really suspecting because I was in the middle of one of the best two days of my career. He said no. I listed off a few other things. And that was it.

SB: When you say your online presence, do you mean that specific cartoon?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: My online anti-Trump presence -- to put it as simply as I possibly can. It seemed like the most logical thing considering what was going on at that moment.

SB: The company issued a statement regarding the allegations that you were fired over this cartoon. It says quote, "This is a false narrative which has emerged carelessly and recklessly on social media. In fact BNI was not even offered this cartoon."

MICHAEL DE ADDER: Well that's true. I didn't want to poke the bear and offer Donald Trump cartoons especially that one.

SB: What was it about the Trump cartoons that you think the paper didn't like? Was it just Trump in general or your specific cartoons about him?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: You know I don't know that answer. You know I'm about to go into speculation and the truth is I don't know -- it would all be just me making up stuff.

SB: Brunswick News -- BNI -- goes on to say that the organization wanted to bring back another cartoonist. Quote, "Reader favorite Greg Perry." What do you make of that?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: We cartoonists are sort of brotherhood. I'm not going to attack another cartoonist. I will question "reader favorite." It should say "Irving favorite." The reader favorite...they fired.

SB: What do you think the Irving's expected from you?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: They expected me to tow company line.

SB: And what is the company line?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: The company line is the bottom line. I mean for other newspapers it's the bottom line really. I mean should somebody that cares about the bottom line on a newspaper, should someone that basically owns most of New Brunswick -- own a newspaper --should a company that at least a quarter of the stories pertain to them being control of the print source that supplies New Brunswickers with the news...that's the real issue. Donald Trump, and me being fired, is not the issue here.

SB: But you are from New Brunswick. You have other work. But you won't be published in New Brunswick. This is your home province. And in that province you've got a lot of family and friends and they won't see your cartoons anymore in their daily newspapers.

MICHAEL DE ADDER: Well that's the hardest part. And I'll tell you who...I'm sorry. My mother has dementia and she doesn't really remember her son. Sometimes it sort of gets mixed up -- quite often. But she remembers that her son draws cartoons. And part of her routine is to go down and read the paper every day and you know see my cartoon. And that's the hardest part. I'm kind of hoping that the people around her will tell her that the Greg Perry cartoon is actually mine. She won't know.

SB: That's generous of you.

MICHAEL DE ADDER: You know what? As long as people don't tell her -- and actually if people do tell her, she won't remember the next day. She'll still go down and look at it. And she'll think that Greg Perry cartoon is mine. I'm hoping anyway.

SB: Do you have any regrets Michael about that cartoon?

MICHAEL DE ADDER: What? No! [Chuckles] No. No. I love that cartoon. And I don't care. I just want to get through this. Move on with my life. Move on to bigger and better things. That's it.

SB: Well Michael thank you for your time today and good luck.

MICHAEL DE ADDER: Thank you very much.

KG: Michael de Adder is a freelance editorial cartoonist. He was in Halifax. You can see the cartoon in question on our website -- cbc.ca/aih -- along with a statement from Brunswick News about Mr. de Adder's termination.

[Music]

Wasp Super Nests

Guest: Charles Ray

KG: If you are a yellow jacket wasp in Alabama this year, you're having one heck of a good summer. The wasps in that state have upgraded their regular sized nests for super-nests. Nests that contain more than 15,000 wasps. Nests that can span 7 feet or more than 2 metres. To say these nests are like regular ones except bigger doesn't begin to do them justice. Charles Ray is an Alabama entomologist who's been tracking them. We reached him in Auburn, Alabama.

SB: Mr. Ray just the photographs of these super-nests give me the heebie jeebies. What do you think when you see them?

CHARLES RAY: Well I'm fascinated because of a couple of things. One is, until 2006 I've never seen one. The second is, why is it occurring? And that's something we hope to answer with some of the nests this year. The third thing is, is just the incredible that you could almost feel the energy around these nest. There are wasps working on the paper. There are wasps flying in and out with prey. You say "busy as a bee" -- well this is busy as a wasp. They are incredible.

SB: How many of these super-nests do you have in Alabama so far this year?

CR: I am fairly confident I've got about 19. I'm going to be heading out tomorrow to look at some more and in fact verify that it is a nest of yellow jackets.

SB: Can you describe what these super-nests look like?

CR: Well it almost looks like there is paper slowly oozing out of the surface that there nest is behind. So, many of them are on embankments along roadsides and it looks like there's a river of paper has flowed down the side. On a home it looks like this paper is just oozing out from the eaves. It is very beautiful. It has texture and colour and the yellow jackets all over it.

SB: And you describe the energy around it. How many wasps are living inside these nests?

CR: A small colony of these super-nest in late June would have at least 15,000 wasp.

SB: 15,000!

CR: 15,000. And the larger nests undoubtedly have many many more. The only record number I could come up with was there's a study done in South Carolina -- a nest was examined and they found over a quarter of a million yellow jackets.

SB: You mentioned the year 2006 when there were -- in that year -- 90 of these super-nests. In 2006 three people were seriously injured by wasp stings. How dangerous are these nests?

CR: These nests are actually not very dangerous unless you disturb them. So all three people who were injured were seriously disturbing the nests. So an elderly lady in a nearby county had no idea what it was and she went out with a rake and started pulling it off the side of her house and she ended up being hospitalized. And there was a gentleman in Coosa County who went out and bought what they call wasps and hornets spray. And he went through 26 cans and he would spray the nest and he would try to pull it down with a rake and more would come flying out and sting him. He'd spray some more -- rake some more -- and get stung some more. And he got a large number of stings. And he also was in a lot of pain so he ingested some alcohol to try to feel better. And either he passed out from the wasp stings or the alcohol or both. But he fell and broke the orbit -- the bone that circles your eye.

SB: Oh my. What should people do when they encounter these super-nests?

CR: So my advice is if you can leave it alone, they will not bother you -- unless you start digging into it. And then there's a lot more loss to respond.

SB: What's causing these gigantic nests?

CR: We suspect it is something to do with the fact that our climate is getting warmer. It was a very warm winter.

SB: So more wasps survive the winter. Is that the cause?

CR: Well it's not more wasps surviving the winter -- it is, a colony does not die. So a typical annual colony starts with a single queen -- you can call her a single mom because she has to go out and establish her own household, just to find a place to nest. She has to build an original small nest herself. She has to forage for food for her first workers and then after that the workers take over. And this is going to sound like an enormous number. But the little nest in the ground here in Alabama is about the size of a volleyball. In about August when we start producing queens and they will produce about 4,000 queens. And if one of those queens makes it through the winter that colony has been successful. There's tremendous attrition. What we think is happening now is it never gets cold enough to kill the workers, it stays warm enough for there to be a food source for them to feed on through the winter, and the other thing that's happening is rather than having a single queen they start the spring with maybe a 1,000 or 4,000 workers that made it through the winter and they will start with 35 to 150 queens. And each one of those queens can produce over her lifetime 20,000 eggs. If you do the math, they're going to make a huge colony with that many queens and that many workers to provide for them.

SB: Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you this summer.

CR: I do. But I am terribly impressed with what these things are doing. How can they build something this quickly? I've never been stung while just examining a nest. I've told people before I've stood under a very large nesting, gave a 15 minute TV interview, and the wasps didn't care if I was there or not. They never bothered me. Getting that confidence required a lot of reading and a lot of exposure out there and realizing that yes they don't care if you're there or not.

SB: While Mr. Ray thanks for telling us about it.

CR: You're welcome.

SB: Good luck to you with your work this summer. Bye bye.

CR: Bye bye.

KG: Charles Ray is an entomologist with the Alabama Cooperative Extension System. We reached him in Auburn.

[Music]

Fry vs. Fry

KG: It's the case of fry versus fry that's caused an international clash between two of the biggest potatoes in the world of frozen food. Big potato number one is McCain Foods. The New Brunswick tuber trader sells a product called the 'Twisted Potato.' As its name suggests the twisted potato is a slice of potato that McCain twists, fries, flavors, and freezes into bags for you to bake up and binge at your convenience. The problem is that big potato number two also sells slices of potatoes which it also twists, fries, flavors, and freezes for reheating. They're called 'Sidewinders' -- and they are the exclusive product of Idaho's multi-billion dollar J.R. Simplot Corporation. And if you've noticed similarities between 'Sidewinders' and the 'Twisted Potatoes' you're not frying solo. So J.R. Simplot has lawyered up and is fighting for exclusive rights over its slightly askew fried potato. But team McCain insists their competitor is making a hash of things because the two products are quote, "substantively different." They've done some calculations to find that the 'Twisted Potato' was five to six millimeters thicker than its rival -- is smooth surfaced instead of ridged, and turns both clockwise and counter-clockwise whereas the 'Sidewinder' only winds one way. These vital issues are wending their way through courts in Canada, the U.S., and Europe.

[Music]

Part 2: Crew of migrant rescue ship vows to stick to its mission after captain arrested in Italy

Sea Watch Arrest

Guest: Haidi Sadik

KG: She captained the ship as it rescued dozens of migrants from the seas off the coast of Libya. Now Carola Rackete has been arrested for bringing the Sea Watch 3 to an Italian port. Captain Rackete docked in Lampedusa over the weekend -- following a tense standoff with Italian authorities. That standoff began after the ship brought the migrants aboard from an inflatable raft last month. The move defied a ban by Italy's interior minister Matteo Salvini. He closed the Italian ports to rescue vessels like the Sea Watch 3. Haidi Sadik is a spokesperson for Sea Watch International and a cultural mediator onboard the Sea Watch 3. We reached Ms. Sadik on the ship off the coast of Lampedusa.

SB: Ms. Sadik what's the latest you've heard about your ship's captain Carola Rackete?

HAIDI SADIK: Well the latest we've heard is kind of what's been in the world news as well which is that after she was arrested, she was taken off the ship and into house arrest in Lampedusa. And then earlier today she was moved to Sicily accompanied by Guardia di Finanza -- which is the border control or the police. And she was interrogated. Now she is again under house arrest. And so we're awaiting the ruling on this.

SB: Italy's interior minister Matteo Salvini has said it's completely illegal for your ship to have entered the port of Lampedusa and he has called the captain a criminal. What's your response?

HS: This fits within wider EU policy to criminalise those who rescue people at sea including captains and other voluntary crews on different ships -- and in general, also other people who work with refugees or provide services to them or even show solidarity to them across Europe. And so this smear campaign and this calling us pirates and criminals and people traffickers, it's all to distract from the fact that Europe as a continent and our EU member states including Italy are failing in upholding the law. Everything that we've done on this ship and that Carola has done as a captain is entirely lawful and respects international maritime law and human rights law in that she rescued people in distress which is a duty. It's a legal obligation. And then she took them to the nearest safe port -- trying to end their suffering rather than prolong the emergency that they were in which is exactly what Italy has done.

SB: And while the Sea Watch 3 was making its way into port -- while it was docking -- Ms. Rackete collided with a police boat. Why did that happen?

HS: So one of the spokespersons or one of the police officers of the Guardia di Finanza of whom that boat was in between the pier and the Sea Watch 3 had said that they were deliberately placed there or placing themselves there to hinder us from docking. It was very clear the intention of our captain and off the Sea Watch 3 to dock into the port. The maneuver was very very slow. And so a slight contact happened that obviously was not intended in any hostile way. And after this slight contact, the boat finally decided to make its way out -- the other vessel -- which it could have done far far earlier but it was trying to hinder us from physically docking. And the point of that is that they have no political will for our 40 guests on the ship to actually step foot on European soil.

SB: What was it like on the boat before it was docked for those people that you're talking about and for the crew -- what were they facing before the boat docked?

HS: So we were facing an incredibly long emergency. So you can compare it to an ambulance trying to make its way to hospital and being hindered from every direction. Now in and of itself, being rescued at sea is a highly traumatic experience. And it is an emergency. That is made worse by the fact that the people we had onboard departed from Libya where they faced incredible human rights abuses. They were imprisoned, tortured, sold as slaves -- the stories are horrific. And so being on the ship for so long, people needed to get on shore as soon as possible to get onward care -- whether that was physical care or psychological care. And so being stuck in here was reminiscent of being in prison even though we treat them well and with respect.

SB: What's likely to happen to them now?

HS: Well to them we hope that they get incorporated into we know it is a failing system of reception of refugees in Europe but to some extent their rights can be guaranteed. So the actions and the circumstances under which they arrived to land should not affect their further treatment in Europe. But obviously there is the other question of how will they be treated by society. The first thing that these people that met them -- arrival in port -- was right-wing activists shouting racist slurs at them and saying you're not welcome here and go back. Is that really a place where you want to be? Is that a place where you feel safe? I don't know.

SB: Well again the interior minister Matteo Salvini says Italy is just defending its borders against human trafficking. And he has in fact accused people like you that run these rescue boats -- your organization -- of working with smugglers to bring migrants to Europe for profit. What do you say to that?

HS: I almost want to laugh because that is an unbelievably misleading accusation -- that when we are doing the job that governments are supposed to be doing. We are out there trying to make sure that people don't die while they look for safety. When we meet people at sea the first thing they ask us is, are you going to take us back to Libya? Back to the smugglers? Back to the human traffickers? To the people who have locked us up and beaten us and treated us like animals? To liken us to them and compare us to them is unbelievably misconstrued.

SB: Is Carola Rackete's arrest going to change how the Sea Watch operates in the Mediterranean?

HS: No. We stand by the laws that we work to respect. We stand by our humanitarian imperative and we will continue to do this work.

SB: Ms. Sadik thank you so much.

HS: Thank you.

KG: We reached Haidi Sadik aboard the Sea Watch 3 off the coast of Lampedusa. The captain of the Sea Watch -- Carola Rackete -- is under house arrest for docking her rescue ship in what Italy's interior minister has called an act of war. You can read more about this at our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Nayib Bukele

KG: "It is our fault." That's what El Salvador's new president is saying about the deaths of Oscar Alberto Martinez Ramirez and his 23-month-old daughter Valeria. The father and daughter's bodies were photographed lying face down in the Rio Grande last week. They died while trying to reach the United States. Yesterday, their bodies were returned to El Salvador -- and relatives are holding a private funeral ceremony in San Salvador today. President Nayib Bukele is critical of the U.S. government's treatment of migrants at its southern border. But he says the blame for what he calls forceful migration falls first and foremost on Salvadorian shoulders.

SOUNDCLIP

NAYIB BUKELE: Most of the people if you ask them they are fleeing for two main reasons. One is because of insecurity -- they don't feel safe. So they feel it's safer to cross a desert -- three frontiers. And all of the things that may happen. And the road to the United States because they feel that's more secure than living here. So we want to make our country safer. The second is that we will make a country that's more prosperous and that can provide jobs, decent paying jobs, for all of our people. So if people have an opportunity to have a decent job, a decent education, a decent health care system, and security -- I know that forcible migration will be reduced to zero. And the other thing about what the United States is doing I think they are approaching this in the wrong way. History has shown that this will not stop migration. It will not stop it. But the things that we're trying to do here -- that may stop forcible migration. We agree on what we want to do but for different reasons. They don't want our people. And I want our people here. People don't flee their homes because they want to. People flee their homes because they feel they have to. Why? Because they don't have a job. Because they are being threatened by gangs. They don't have basic things like water, education, health. And we can spit blame to any other country. Well, where was our blame? I mean what country did they flee? Did they fled the United States? They fled El Salvador -- they fled our country. It is our fault.

KG: Nayib Bukele became president of El Salvador one month ago today, and says his country must take responsibility for the deaths of Salvadorans trying to reach the United States -- including a father and daughter who drowned in the Rio Grande last week.

[Music]

Luis Alvarez Obit

Guest: John Feal

KG: Even in his final days from his hospice bed in New York, Luis Alvarez continued to advocate for his fellow 9/11 responders. He was an NYPD detective. And after the September 11th attacks, he was one of the thousands of people who went to work at Ground Zero. Mr. Alvarez says it was that work that led to his colorectal cancer. This weekend Mr. Alvarez died. He was 53. Just a few weeks ago he was testifying in Washington D.C. alongside comedian Jon Stewart. Mr. Alvarez called on politicians to permanently extend financial support to the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. Here's some of what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

LUIS ALVAREZ: This fund is not a ticket to paradise. It is there to provide for our families when we can't. Nothing more. You all said you would never forget. Well I'm here to make sure that you don't. You made me come down here the day before my 69th round of chemo. And I'm going to make sure that you never forget to take care of the 9/11 responders.

KG: John Feal was sitting behind Luis Alvarez that day in Washington. Mr. Feal is a 9/11 responder and the founder of an advocacy group called the FealGood Foundation. We reached him in New York.

SB: John Feal I'm so sorry for your loss. What does it say about Mr. Alvarez that even in his final days -- even when he was clearly so ill -- he was still advocating for 9/11 responders?

JOHN FEAL: I still get choked up. It shows you the type of man that Luis was -- just like so many other 9/11 responders who give of themselves. Most people when they know they're going to leave this world and they're going to pass away in the near future, they want to spend that with loved ones and friends and make final arrangements. Luis chose to help tens of thousands of people before he left this world and that should be embraced and emulated by everybody whether you're in the United States or in Canada or around the world. It's about giving of yourself. It's about humanity and Luis was the best example of that.

SB: He was talking about heading to his 69th...69th! round of chemotherapy, and putting that off so that he could travel to Washington to give his story. When you hear him talking that way and you were just there behind him, what do you recall?

JF: Well I recall what it took us to get him there. Listen I was in charge of everything. It was my planning, my scheduling, and handpicking those who were going to testify. And when we asked Luis to do it, he didn't hesitate. And to see Luis travel, spend the night with us the night before in the hotel, to get him to Capitol Hill, and to get him to testify...I watched a warrior go out on the battlefield one last time. Yeah I'm so proud of my friend. And you know my final conversation with Luis -- he said I gave him purpose and I gave him hope. But Luis made me a better man. And I said Luis thank you for allowing me to be your friend. It's been an honor. I miss and I love Luis dearly. But we have work to do. And Luis would want us to finish our work. And his passing won't be in vain when we get this legislation passed.

SB: Well you talk about that work. Can you describe for people who might not have seen it, the impact that his statement had in that committee room and on the members of Congress who were listening to him?

JF: Yeah. Well let me tell you something of the impact in that room -- Luis's testimony was felt around the world. The emails, the phone calls, the social media -- America has now taken hold of the Alvarez family and Luis is loved everywhere even in passing. And from the moment he gave his testimony till now, we have the support of the people around the world and the American people. And it's going to be up to Congress and the Senate now to sense our urgency and to come together in a bipartisan manner and do the right thing. And we're doing this for Luis. And you know just this morning I did CNN interview and I told Mayor de Blasio to give Luis the key to New York City and the mayor from the presidential campaign trail called Luis's widow and said that Luis is going to get the Key to New York City. So I'm going to make sure that Luis Alvarez is never forgotten and he gets the accolades he deserves.

SB: Can you take us back to 2001 and tell us what kind of work Mr. Alvarez was doing just after the 9/11 attacks?

JF: Well he was doing what everybody else was doing. There was a sign that of remove debris and search for remains. You know we don't need 9/11 to call cops and firefighters and EMS as heroes. They were heroes way before they put on their badges and their uniforms. And what Luis and an army of cops and firefighters and construction workers did -- they did yeoman's work. And it was the single largest act of volunteerism of countries ever seen. Somebody from every Congressional district in the United States came during the cleanup that lasted 10 months. Many of them went home and got sick and many of them have passed away like Luis. And sadly Luis is not going to be the last person to die from a 9/11 related cancer. And hence why we're fighting to get legislation passed.

SB: How long was he working at Ground Zero?

JF: He worked for three months. You know the absorption through the nose, mouth and skin -- we eat there, we slept there, we cried there, we went to the bathroom there, we worked there -- we were exposed 24/7 to those toxins.

SB: How did you and Luis become friends?

JF: You know sadly I meet most people when they're sick, and they come to me for help. And I met Luis when he was sick. And I've always made it a promise to myself after doing this for 15 years not to get close to people that I helped. But Luis was a handful of people that I allowed myself to get close to because he had that contagious personality and you could not help but love him. And I think God is cursing me for my previous life because everybody that I love dearly and I get close to seems to die from a 9/11 related cancer.

SB: How's your health?

JF: I've had 38 surgeries. I'm in chronic pain 24/7. I'm arthritic in 80 percent of my body. I can't complain. I'm alive and I've been given a chance to advocate and have been blessed to fight for 15 years for the injustice the 9/11 community has been served. So complaining is not on the table for me. But physically and mentally this has taken its toll. But Luis's passing...it has just crushed my soul, and it's gone past the physical and the mental pain that I see on a daily basis. And this one is just going to be hard to recover from and I don't expect me to ever truly recover.

SB: And what about the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund? After he testified, members of that committee unanimously voted to move on with this legislation. But the fight is not over, is it?

JF: No. We have got to get the bill out of the House within the next week or two. And then the Senate's got to get it and they've got to get it done before August 3rd before they go on their recess. Listen we've up our rhetoric. We've upped the pressure. And we took matters into our own hands and we're not going to let elected officials determine our faith. We're going to mourn today and tomorrow and Wednesday for Luis. We're going to be with his family. But we're going to pick up our swords and go back to D.C. the following week and we're going to keep the pressure on them. We're going to keep our foot on their necks and we're not going to let up until we get this done in Luis's name.

SB: Well John Feal again I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. Good luck with the rest of your fight and thanks for talking to us.

JF: God bless you all in Toronto.

SB: John Feal is a friend of Luis Alvarez, and a 9/11 responder himself. He was in New York. To see pictures of the two of them when they went to Washington last month, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Marnie McBean

KG: Canadian flags are waving across the country as the nation marks Canada Day. And the Canadian Olympic Committee hopes to keep those Maple Leafs waving all the way into next year's Summer Games in Tokyo. During the celebrations on Parliament Hill today, the committee named Marnie McBean as the chef de mission for the 2020 Games. Here's some of what the three-time gold medalist had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

MARNIE MCBEAN: Thank you. Going to Tokyo is going to be my 10th Olympic Games. And I got to tell you, wearing the Maple Leaf beside the Olympic logo is always magical. Thank you! It's such an honor to be chosen as the chef de mission. It's going to be a privilege to lead a company, such a talented and committed team. Each one of our athletes has worked hard and relentlessly for the opportunity of representing our country in Tokyo at the Summer Games. We head to the next Olympics full of confidence -- knowing that Canadians like you everyone here, right? Everyone here! [Crowd cheers] Yeah --Go Canada Go! We're going to be supporting the Canadian team the whole way. Go Canada Go! [Crowd chanting "Go Canada Go"]

KG: That was Olympic champion rower Marnie McBean. She brought home gold from both the 1992 and 1996 Summer Games. Now Ms. McBean will lead Team Canada in the Tokyo 2020 Games next summer.

[Music]

The Rant

KG: I want to take a moment now to clear something up. I'm going to come right out and say it: I am not Jeff Douglas. Now I understand the confusion. I am on As It Happens, I'm sitting in Jeff's seat, speaking into the mic that Jeff spoke into, and saying "Tonight" at the top of the show kind of like Jeff used to do. But Jeff's moved down east to host CBC Nova Scotia's "Mainstreet" program. So I'm here as one of the guest hosts who'll be filling in for the next few months. We're taking our time to find that special someone to step into Jeff's cycling cleats. If you're missing Jeff, you're not alone. So we dug up one of his master works that predates As It Happens. From March 2000, this is Jeff in a Molson Canadian ad called, simply, "The Rant."

SOUNDCLIP

JEFF DOUGLAS: Hey. I'm not a lumberjack or a fur trader. And I don't live in an igloo or eat blubber or own a dog sled. And I don't know Jimmy, Sally, or Susie from Canada. Although I'm certain they're really really nice. I have a prime minister. Not a president. I speak English and French -- not American. And I pronounce it "about." Not "a-boot." I can proudly sow my country's flag on my backpack. I believe in peacekeeping -- not policing. Diversity not assimilation. And that the beaver is a truly proud and noble animal. A toque is a hat! And chesterfield is a couch! Everything is pronounced Z. Not Zee! Zed! Canada is the second largest land mass. The birth nation of hockey! And the best part of North America! My name is Joe and I AM CANADIAN! Thank you.

KG: Oh I love that. From March 2000, that was Jeff Douglas in the Molson Canadian ad "The Rant" -- a classic. Jeff we miss you and we wish you a Happy Canada Day.

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July 1, 2019 Episode Transcript

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