Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2019

The AIH Transcript for June 28, 2019

Hosts: Susan Bonner and Karen Gordon

SUSAN BONNER: Hello, I'm Susan Bonner, sitting in for Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening, I'm Karen Gordon. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

KG: Tonight:

SG: I'd call it a tax return, but that's wrong for two reasons. First, order Ottawa’s so-called “carbon tax” never left. And second, in its ruling today, Ontario's Court of Appeal ruled it's not a tax at all.

KG: The heat of the moment. France records its highest ever temperature: a blistering 45.9 degrees Celsius. And we'll speak with an environmental scientist in Paris, who's feeling her predictions come true.

SB: Uncomfortably hot property. For nearly two weeks, LGBT protesters have been demanding action and answers from the mayor of Hamilton, Ontario. And this morning, they showed up at his house.

KG: An overdue hero's welcome. When students told her they didn't see themselves in books she was teaching, Elizabeth Acevedo wrote one specifically for them — which won a huge readership, and now, a major award.

SB: Pros and cons jobs. Scam Artists in England sent out a letter on bank letterhead attempting to steal people's debit cards. But their first of many mistakes is starting with the greeting: Dear costumer.

KG: And the fellowship of the ring. After his wife lost her wedding ring in the snow in Alberta, a Missouri man returns to try and find it, with the help of some Canadians — and their metal detectors.

KG: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that's glad they got the band back together.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Carbon tax decision, Hamilton mayor protest, lost ring

Carbon tax decision

Guest: Arif Virani

KG: Prime Minister Trudeau's carbon pricing policy is now two-and-oh in the courts. But his Conservative opponents aren't giving up the fight. Today, the Ontario Court of Appeal ruled that the constitution gives the federal government the power to legislate on matters of national concern. And that the existential threat posed by climate change is both national, and concerning enough, to fit the bill. Ontario's Progressive Conservative Environment Minister wasted no time in announcing that they'd appeal today's decision to the Supreme Court. We asked to speak with someone from the Ontario government, but our invitation was declined. Arif Virani is the Parliamentary Secretary to the federal Justice Minister. We reached Mr. Virani in Toronto.

SB: Mr. Virani, the Ontario government says it's unfazed by today's decision. It's going to join Saskatchewan, and fight the carbon tax all the way to the Supreme Court.

ARIF VIRANI: Yes, I mean we've heard their response. And frankly, I find it a little bit disappointing as a Ontario resident and a Member of Parliament from Toronto. They've vowed to use every tool, quote, “in their toolbox to challenge us in court.” What we found now is that two appellate courts in this country have now ruled in our favour that, indeed, a federal price on pollution is in fact constitutional. Indeed this is a matter of national concern. I actually don't think you need to be a lawyer to understand this kind of stuff because air and water pollution travel across provincial boundaries. Ergo they trigger national concerns. And that's exactly what the court found today.

SB: The language that I've seen from Ontario doesn't dispute that climate change is an urgent issue. Jeff Yurek, the minister, said in a statement the federal government's carbon tax is making life more expensive for Ontarians and is putting jobs and businesses at risk. We promised to use, as you say, every tool at our disposal to challenge the carbon tax, and we'll continue to fight to keep this promise. What do you say to Ontario's environment minister?

AV: So I've got a lot of respect for democratically elected governments, but not when they're actually misrepresenting the actual facts on the ground. So when they talk about attacks, first of all, it's not a tax it's a regulatory charge that’s revenue-neutral. That's been found by the Saskatchewan court and the Ontario Court. Secondly, when they talk about life getting more expensive for Ontarians, that's categorically false. The parliamentary budget officer, a non-partisan entity, has indicated that when you have a climate action rebate, when people farther taxes, a family of four got 307 dollars back. So they can adjust to the rising cost of fuel in this province. That is helping 80 per cent of Ontarians families. So it’s actually categorically false that things are getting more expensive. We know that an economic lever is the best way to alter people's behaviour. That is exactly what we're doing. And to report that we're not doing anything with respect to businesses and we're only addressing this concern as it relates to individuals is also categorically false. And I think my constituents in Parkdale-High Park, the people I speak to in this city, the people I speak to around the province and around the country, all believe climate action is serious. And they are puzzled by the inaction by various provincial governments, and further by their willingness to continuously litigate a matter in which they continuously lose because this is indeed a global problem that demands a solution on a national level by nation states.

SB: You have won both court decisions, but not unanimously. So you have three judges, two in Saskatchewan, one in Ontario, who have come down against the majority position on your policy. What makes you so confident that the Supreme Court isn't going to strike a balance in the province's favour?

AV: So we're confident because of the track record thus far. Yes, the decisions have not been unanimous. But we're confident because ultimately again I don't think you need to be a constitutional lawyer to appreciate that pollution crosses boundaries. I don't think you need to be a constitutional lawyer when I had the opportunity to attend the climate change conference in Katowice, Poland in December of last year. There, hot on the heels of the IPCC report, the UN was begging the nation states of the world to take action on what is not just a national problem, but what is a global problem. The high watermark of Jason Kenney, Doug Ford, and Andrew Scheer’s position is that no, no, no, tut, tut, you nation states of the world you don't actually you have the jurisdiction to address this international problem at a national level. That is illogical on its face. And that's what the court has found. Further, there's actually interesting language in the decision where they talk about this issue of national unity. We've been faulted as for creating division, East versus West, certain provinces versus the central government on this very issue. What the court said is that it's actually quite the opposite. They actually said, and I’ll quote it to you, they said in the decision as a practical matter, and indeed as a legislative matter, there is nothing these provinces and territories can do to address the emission of GHGs by their geographic neighbours and constitutional partners. Without a collective national response, all they can do is prepare for the worst.

SB: But since you mentioned national unity, you've got Saskatchewan, Alberta, Manitoba, and New Brunswick working together to stop this. If you've got almost half of Confederation against you, isn't that a sign that you need to win over more than just the courts?

AV: I think the people that need to be won over are the provincial governments in those provinces. I think the actual people, the population who have been polled on this issue, have said resoundingly that the environment is a concern. Climate change is real. They understand that it's impacted by human action. And that they want a national government to take action.

SB: Do you think you might have been wiser to choose something that wouldn't have been so easy to dismiss and label as a carbon tax?

AV: I think it takes leadership to take a strong position. If you recollect what we tried to run on in 2008 and the leadership of Stephane Dion, it was moving towards a pricing on carbon pollution. That was vilified as a carbon tax in 2008. In 2019, eleven years later, I think the evidence is clear. I think the understanding of the Canadian populace is clear. I think the majority of Canadians want action on climate change. They're seeing the disastrous impacts of it. You saw the court take note of that. In the first few paragraphs the decision, they talked about all of the impact this is having from flooding to wildfires, to the dramatic impact it's having on our Indigenous communities. I think it is difficult to take action and serious action, but we are taking it because it's the right thing to do. It’s the important thing to do. It's going to address this critical concern. It’s an economic lever that has been shown to work. And it’s part of a suite of responses around the planet. There are 70 jurisdictions, whether they're national or subnational, that have taken action. Sadly, Doug Ford under the current provincial government is one of the few jurisdictions to resile from taking action.

SB: Well, he says he won a mandate by campaigning against it. And now, we're heading into a federal election where all Canadians will be asked to cast their vote maybe specifically on this issue.

AV: And what they should do to inform that vote is they should think hard about climate. They should think hard about how it's impacting themselves and their families. They should think hard about the costs of climate inaction. But they should also think hard about fruitless and futile pursuits in court to the tune of 30 million dollars to pursue litigation challenging our jurisdiction to act again on what is not just a national concern, but a global concern. I think that's not an appropriate use of government resources, to be candid. And I think Canadians will have that choice. I mean what they have is a situation where the official opposition, a fellow Conservative, has said clearly that the first action they will take is repealing the price on carbon pollution. Making pollution free is in no one's best interests anywhere in the country. And I think that is not a partisan issue that is just a real issue. And I think what the court has validated yet again today is that we have the constitutional jurisdiction to continue. And that's what we plan to do.

SB: Mr. Virani, thank you very much.

AV: Thank you.

KG: Arif Virani is the Parliamentary Secretary to the federal Justice Minister. We reached him in Toronto. We contacted the Ontario Environment Minister for an interview, but our invitation was declined.

[Music: Instrumental]

Hamilton mayor

Guest: Fred Eisenberger

KG: It's been said that you can't fight City Hall — which may be why 20 or so people bypassed that particular building in Hamilton, Ontario, this morning — and headed straight to the mayor's house. And when the protesters got to Hamilton Mayor Fred Eisenberger's house, they made their presence known.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Many instruments being played and much cheering]

KG: In addition to instruments, they also brought signs with them that read the "Mayor doesn't care about Queer People." Today's action comes less than two weeks after Hamilton's Pride celebrations were interrupted by an anti-Pride protest that turned violent. We reached Mayor Fred Eisenberger in Hamilton.

SB: Maeyor Eisenberger, when did you realize something was going on outside your home today?

FRED EISENBERGER: I'm not accustomed to having you know lots of rattling noise going on at seven o'clock in the morning at my home, so it was a pretty stark awakening that it was happening as I was reading the newspaper. My wife was upstairs getting ready for the day. And we all kind of called each other and said are you playing some strange kind of music? And apparently, that strange kind of music was happening outside. So lots of noise, lots of rattling, and then some violent banging on the door was a pretty good indicator that we were being besieged by something out of the ordinary.

SB: And how did you and your family respond to that?

FE: Well, I mean I knew pretty quickly that this was a group of people that were you know out to create mayhem, so didn’t engage, did call the police. And after about 15 minutes, then they moved on but left behind a whole pile of lawn signs.

SB: Have you ever had protesters show up at your home before?

FE: No, never. This is a first. I think that it crosses I think a pretty unacceptable line. You know all fine and well that in the course of the work that we do that people protest at city hall or in other places. But this is way over the line. That’s never happened before. It's totally unacceptable. And you know it's certainly rattling for my family and some of my neighbours when we're besieged at seven o'clock in the morning.

SB: Well, police are investigating, and they haven't made any arrests yet. Do you have any idea who they were and why they were there?

FE: My understanding is that some of the people that were at our city council meeting the other night were participants in this.

SB: And what was that about at city council?

FE: The council meeting? Well, we were dealing with the whole issue around protests here, and looking at an injunction to prevent some of these hooligans from disrupting our city hall forecourt. And there was a lot of shouting and some folks trying to shout down some of the opinions of some members of council that were speaking. And so we had to stop the meeting and have those people removed. In my mind, that's you know also one of the very rare times that we've had to shut down this council meeting and have people removed. And you know I think the outfall of that for some of those folks obviously was a reaction at my home this morning.

SB: Cameron Kroetsch, whois an activist who vice-chaired Pride Hamilton this year, he put out a tweet today that said he isn't surprised by what happened. He wrote, quote, “It's not my style, but I get it. Our community has been traumatized, is in pain, and is angry.” Why are members of the LGBT community in Hamilton so unhappy with you right now?

FE: Good question. You know what? I've done nothing but trying to be a good ally. I've spent the better part of the previous four years working with one of the gay counselors that was present at the time working on a whole list of protocols for the trans community, for the gay community. I actually advocated for a better working relationship with the 2SLGBTQ community. We did some great things. And we made some great strides in making improvements to make sure that we are inclusive, and providing the kind of services and lack of discrimination against those members in our community. I've done nothing but work for unison, for diversity, for a Hamilton for all. And I can also tell you that this is a very complex issue. Many, many different kinds of elements — radical elements — in all the various groups are participating in this. And it's just getting out of hand. And I would say that those that are looking to disrupt government and you know demonstrate against you know established institutions are just loving the kind of mayhem and discord that this has now created.

SB: Can I ask you about the incident that happened at the Hamilton Pride event, when LGBT community members were confronted with anti-Pride protesters, things got out of hand very quickly, and a lot of people their… Pride Hamilton believes that much of what happened could have been prevented by Hamilton police services. And that it took too long for police to respond to the escalating situation when these protesters confronted the people there for the Pride event. You're the chair of the Police Services Board, the oversight body for police, do you understand why people in the community might be upset enough to show up at your house?

FE: I don't think there's ever a rationale for people showing up at my house and creating that kind of discord and mayhem. There's no rationale for that. In terms of the police presence, you know I'll never disagree with our police in the sense that they were originally asked not to have a police presence at the gay pride event at Gage Park. And so notwithstanding that, and the police actually asked for a recruitment booth at the gay pride event at Gage Park, both of those were denied. But notwithstanding that, the police had a presence there ready to respond. And whether they responded quickly enough, that's a matter for our police to make that determination. But this notion that they stood back and let people get injured and that they didn’t take part in the fray is just not true. And since then, arrests have been made.

SB: You've invited members of the LGBT community to meet with you next month. What do you want to say to them?

FE: Come to the table with a desire to get on to next steps in terms of improving the relationship and improving the conditions for those that are potentially targeted in the trans queer community. None of us want any of that to happen. And we need to work together collectively with the police and the city to ensure that we provide a safe space for all people in our community.

SB: Mayor Eisenberger, thank you.

FE: Thank you, Susan.

SB: Bye.

KG: Fred Eisenberger is the Mayor of Hamilton, which is where we reached him.

[Music: Ambient]

Lost ring

Guest: Drew Huskey

KG: When Drew Huskey and Emily Yang visited Alberta last fall for a vacation, it was heavily snowing — which isn't surprising. Also not surprising: that the couple's car got stuck in the snow for hours, behind a bus accident near Jasper National Park. But then, finally, a surprise: an extremely unpleasant one. The couple got out of the car to take in some brisk Canadian air — and Ms. Yang promptly lost her wedding ring. Now, months later, with a little help from some Canadians, Mr. Huskey has recovered the ring — and surprised his wife. We reached Drew Huskey in St. Louis, Missouri.

SB: Drew Huskey, can you describe your wife's wedding ring?

DREW HUSKEY: Umm yes, it is a three-quarter carat centre stone. It's a double halo, with a total of 73 diamonds. It was right about the $10,000 range.

SB: Pretty valuable.

DH: Yeah, close to $10,000 is close enough.

SB: Can you tell me what happened? How did the ring come to be missing?

DH: So we were stuck in kind of a traffic jam on 93, the Icefields Parkway, and she had gotten out to go to the bathroom. And the snow was up to like past her knees. And she went to go brush the snow off. And with her hands being as cold as they were they shriveled up, and that's whenever the ring was really loose, and she went to brush, and that's when the ring came off.

SB: And what was it like when you had to get back into that car knowing that you were going to leave without the ring?

DH: It was a pretty tense moment. She was heartbroken, but she didn't want her parents to feel bad. She didn't want me to feel bad. So we basically just kind of quietly moved on.

SB: So how did you hatch this plan of yours to recover the ring?

DH: As soon as we said that we were leaving, I stood there for a quick minute and looked at the position of there’s a trailhead sign as well as two bathrooms. And then at a 90 degree difference, if you look over, there was a speed limit sign. So I basically made two points intersect, and I told myself I will be back when the big thaw — the summer thaw — happens.

SB: Well, at that point, that was several months away. So what did you do while you were waiting for the snow to melt?

DH: When I came home back to St. Louis, Missouri, I came up with this idea that you know I'm going to learn how metal detectors work, get one, go back to the area, and start looking. And at first, I was planning to do this all by myself. But a co-worker, her name's Lolita, she was working here at the time. And she heard about my issue, and she tagged me on Facebook for a place called The Ring Finders. And I looked it up, and there was a guy that was about 200 kilometres east. You said he only goes 45-kilometer radius. And I basically just asked him for some advice. As soon as he found out what I was planning, he said that is crazy. You know what. Just pay for my gas, and I will be there.

SB: So this is a Canadian by the name of Syd Kanten?

DH: Correct, Syd Kanten.

SB: I have to ask you why weren't you talking to your wife about this?

DH: [deep laughs] I really wanted to make it a surprise. I had a hunch that she would want to come with or she would want to help plan or something like that. And I didn't want her to get on the side of the mountain and have any troubles. Or not only that, but if I didn't succeed, then it would probably make her feel even worse.

SB: Okay. So tell us about the operation. When you returned to the Icefields Parkway, near Jasper, what was your strategy? How did you begin your search?

DH: During the many months of waiting in between, I'd been in contact with Syd. And we were trying to hash out a good time to show up. And we came up with June 1st and June 2nd. So then it turned in to me, Syd, my friend, and his girlfriend. And Syd brought his son Tyler. And that's when we kind of came together with the plan of sweeping certain parts of the mountain together.

SB: So you all had metal detectors?

DH: Yes. So we started out sweeping the area. And we were out there for a good two/two-and-a-half hours, scouring the brush. And then Syd's son Tyler, his batteries on his metal detector died. He just said he was gonna go get fresh batteries and a cup coffee. And he started walking up to the side of the road, right about where we had parked our car eight months previously. He just happened to look down and saw something shiny. He bent down, grabbed it, came up, and said hey, is this the ring we're looking for? And at that point, yeah, it was a total success.

SB: And how did you react?

DH: [deep laughs] It kind of went a little wild. At first, I thought Tyler was just kidding. I turned around, and all of a sudden, I saw it for the first time in eight months. I was just overcome with joy, and I started just celebrating, and you know screaming, and just having a great time. Until I realized I'm from the Midwest, there aren't any real high mountains, and the air is really thin right where we're at, so I got a little light headed, [beginning to laugh] and had to sit down and put my head between my knees for a minute.

SB: How did you let your wife know?

DH: Huh. I had originally told her that I was going on a Cabela's-like trip.

SB: A work trip.

DH: Yes, north of Kalispell, Montana. And I had basically typed it up in a giant confession complete with pictures.

SB: All right, we have some tape of this. Let's play it.

DH: Perfect.

SOUNDCLIP

EMILY YANG: [tearful] Oh, you found it.

[DH Laughing]

DH: It was exactly where you left it.

EM: Where?

DH: It was exactly right outside.

SB: That's hard to listen to. I'm glad it's a happy story. What was that like for you?

DH: [more deep laughet] Man, I tell you what, when she first read everything and got to the bottom, and she's like wait, did you find it? And then whenever I bent over and grabbed the ring, that's whenever she got really emotional. And it was heartbreaking to see my wife cry like that, but it was also heartwarming knowing that the sentimental value of that ring had never ended with her. And whenever she saw it again, you could see that it just rushed right back into her life.

SB: Well, on that note, I'm glad you got the ring back. And thanks for telling us the story. Goodbye.

DH: I thank you. Bye.

KG: Wow, what a sweet guy! Drew Huskey found his wife's lost wedding ring, months after it was lost, near Jasper National Park. We reached him in St. Louis, Missouri. If you'd like to see more on this story, head to: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Indie rock]

DL: Police scam

KG: Dateline: Cheshire, England.

[Music: Dateline theme]

KG: At first, when you read the letter, you freak out, and throw your wallet across the room. But when you re- read it, you notice a couple of things that make you suspicious it's not on the level. The Barclays Bank letterhead looks real enough. So does what's written under it, in bold letters: "IMPORTANT NOTICE - DEBIT CARD SAFETY RECALL". But the second read-through reveals some odd wording. For example, the greeting, says "Dear costumer". It continues: "Many of our bank costumers have reported that their debit cards have caught fire while they are in wallets and purses, and so as a precushion we are issuing an URGENT safety recall. This is a matter of the uppermost emergency as your card could create a pocket fire at any given moment..." The letter then asks you to send your debit card to a "Mr. Smith"...in Bangalore, India. And to include your PIN. That seems dangerous, but there's a postscript. Quote: "IMPORTANT: the PIN number is for verification porpuses only and will be destroyed immediately upon a rival." Unquote. Not the single word "arrival". Two words: "a" and "rival". Cheshire Police are warning locals not to fall for it. Though they don't seem super-concerned anyone will. In a Facebook post, they said, quote: "Usually our advice would be to take five before giving anyone your bank details, but we would like to think this one was pretty obvious." Unquote. Note to scammers: run spellcheck, at least. And note to their targets: never respond to letters claiming your debit card will burst into flame. Unless, you know, your money is burning a hole in your pocket.

[Music: Instrumental]

Part two: France heat wave, children’s author

France heat wave

Guest: Anna Perez Catala

KG: France has never been hotter. Today, a town in Provence hit 45.9 degrees Celsius. That's the highest temperature ever recorded in the country. And it's not just France. Worldwide, 2019 is on track to become one of the hottest-ever years on record. Anna Perez Catala is a Spanish environmental scientist who just spent a week talking about the dangers of climate change at the UN Climate Change Conference in Bonn, Germany. And today, she spent hours sweltering in the heat in a Paris train station. We reached her on her train — traveling back to Spain

SB: Anna, I'm assuming that you're in an air conditioned train right now, and you're a little bit more comfortable?

ANNA PEREZ CATALA: Yes, indeed. All theat heat went away for now. I'm just sitting on a train — on a moving train. But still, it has air conditioning.

SB: What was it like your day in Paris? How hot was it?

APC: It was really hot. The thing is that the train I had to take had a problem, so all the passengers were asked to go down and wait at the platform, and that was the worst part. It was like at 2:00 p.m., when the heat was really strong, we were asked to stand for two-hours-and-a-half just there. So people from the train company were distributing water you know to make sure that people were fine. There was a moment when some people were taking like health of people in general. But you would see people just like standing there, using their phones or tablets you know reading, or just looking very apathetic. And people were like spraying water on children or like rolling there sleeves, you know this this kind of situation. Because everything was very hot, a bit humid, that feeling of getting sticky in your skin because of the sweat. That was at 2:00 p.m. to like 4:00 p.m. today.

SB: And you're just standing there with nowhere to go.

APC: Exactly. We couldn't move because we didn't know when the next train would come. And that took two-hours-and-a-half. And then we jump into the next one — they finally found one. And the thing is that with the one I'm in, the engine is getting too hot. So we had to stop again for it to be checked. And now, we are in a reduced speed because if not, it will hit too much. So I'd say this is really intense.

SB: Everything is affected by this heat.

APC: Exactly, yeah. Also, my ability to go back home.

SB: In one of those interesting twists of timing, this happens to you, you get stuck in this extreme heat while returning from a climate change conference in Bonn. How are you processing that? What were you thinking about climate change and the conference, and then standing on that platform in that extreme heat?

APC: Exactly. The thing is that I was in the guidance negotiations, where countries try to come up with climate plans to fight climate change, right? So it's the UN system kind of thing. And I was a bit disappointed with the conference. I was like oh, we could have done much more, you know? We are not being ambitious enough. And then this heat wave heats, and you're like woah, I was right, you know? Like we are feeling climate change here and now, and we are not doing enough action to actually stop it. So I really felt like my feelings before and the heat wave were really well aligned.

SB: How ill-prepared our countries like France to deal with these record-breaking temperatures like 45 degrees Celsius?

APC: I think the problem is that we are not used this weather in the sense of heat waves get more frequent, more stronger. Globally, the last five years have been that five hottest on record. So if a country was more prepared for it like rain, for example, or snow, their infrastructure isn't even prepared for that — let alone any other things. So if you are a child in a nursery, you may be very hot. And that's one of the more vulnerable populations. But then also there have been cases before I think in Germany where roads would melt because they are not prepared for heat, they are prepared for snow and ice.

SB: At this point, can you clearly connect this heat wave with climate change?

APC: When it comes to attribution, the science doesn't work like this. So you can say yes, heat waves are more frequent and stronger and longer than before. So, for example, Spain, where I'm from, had never had in history a heat wave in June that surpassed 40 degrees — never. So you can say that the signs of attribution works later. So in a year, we may be able to analyze the data from today and be like yes.

SB: So scientifically, you can't say yes. But what does your gut tell you? And what does your experience tell you?

APC: My experience tells me it is because we have never seen a heat wave like this. And the last one we had was directly related to climate change. So I can’t say that like 99 per cent correctly I know science works like this, but I'm sure that in some years, we can look back a the date and say yes, that was definitely the case.

SB: But there are still those who do not accept the dire warnings about climate change — and including prominent world leaders. What do you think it will take to convince these people that climate change is real and is a threat?

APC: I'm not sure they can be convinced. The thing is that I think there are very, very particular interests behind that. And who is funding them most of the times are oil companies that really don’t want action to be taken against climate change. So I think they do know the truth. It’s just that they are in denial for them and for their pockets, let's say. So maybe when their houses are flooded or like we are in a big chaos at some point they will accept it. But for now, I just think they will just stand strong in their point and just deny the science.

SB: What about the average people, the people like you who were standing on that platform and trying to find some relief, what do you think they're thinking? How do you think this impacts them — this kind of heat wave and how they feel about climate change?

APC: I feel sometimes for people is if you got to make the connections. So people understand that climate change is real and that it's a thing. And it's more and more polls are showing that. Research shows that around the world, people find it one of the most threatening things. But I'm not sure if people are able to say well, if it's that hot today that maybe climate change.

SB: Anna, I wish you were a safe and cool trip. Thank you.

APC: Thank you so much.

SB: Goodbye.

KG: We reached environmental scientist Anna Perez Catala on a train bound from France to Spain. For more on this story, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Dalai Lama interview

KG: The Dalai Lama says he'd be fine with a female successor, as long as she's good-looking. That was one of the Tibetan spiritual leader's takes, in an interview with BBC journalist Rajini Vaidyanathan, which airs in its entirety tomorrow. In some clips released ahead of time, the Nobel Peace Prize winner also addresses Brexit, and the refugee crisis — saying it may be best to, quote, "keep Europe for Europeans." Unquote. In the interview, the Dalai Lama tells Ms. Vaidyanathan that he likes living in India because he's free to speak his mind. And in the tape you're about to hear, he does.

SOUNDCLIP

RAJINI VAIDYANATHAN: You once said that you would be open to a female successor.

DALAI LAMA: That also possible.

RV: You also told one of my colleagues that that female must be attractive, otherwise it's not much use?

DL: [slight laugh] Okay, yes.

RV: Can you see why that comment upset a lot of women.

DL: That is one time. I think they themselves I think if there's opportunity to ask whether they spend some money for makeup. I think they must do something.

RV: A lot of women would say that's objectifying women, and it's about who you are inside, isn't it?

DL: Yes, I think both. Real beauty is in a beauty, that's true. But we human being, I think the appearance also important.

RV: One thing that is difficult to sort out at the moment, Your Holiness, is the situation with Brexit back in the U.K. The two sides just cannot come to any agreement. How do they resolve this?

DL: I am one admirer of spiritual European Union. I'm an outsider, but I feel better remain in the union.

RV: The campaign to leave the European Union used one of your quotes in their posters. It said the goal should be that migrants return and help rebuild their countries. You have to be practical. It's impossible for everyone to come.

DL: The European country should take these refugees and give them education and training. And then aiming is returned to their own land.

RV: And if these people want to stay in Europe, shouldn't they be allowed to?

DL: Limited number, okay. But whole Europe eventually become Muslim country, impossible, or African country, also impossible.

RV: There's nothing wrong with that, is there? I mean you're a refugee yourself.

DL: They themselves I think are better to their own. Keep Europe for Europeans.

KG: Some excerpts from an exchange between the BBC's Rajini Vaidyanathan, and the Dalai Lama.

[Music: Strummed instruments]

Children’s author

Guest: Elizabeth Acevedo

KG: Elizabeth Acevedo wrote for her students. The Dominican-American slam poet was teaching English to Grade 8 kids. One of them refused to read anything she offered her, saying, "None of these books are about us." So she decided to create one that would reflect the lives of Latin American girls in America herself. That book — her debut novel — is written in verse. It's called "The Poet X." And it's now won the Carnegie Medal — Britain's top honour for children's writing. Ms. Acevedo is the first writer of colour to win the award, two years after the prize organizers faced criticism for a 20-book longlist made up entirely of white authors. We reached Elizabeth Acevedo in Washington, D.C.

SB: Elizabeth Acevedo, congratulations. What does it mean to you to win the Carnegie Medal?

ELIZABETH ACEVEDO: Thank you so much. This was a really spectacular moment for me. I mean I think I knew that in New York City, where I'm from and where the book is based, that there was a clear audience for it. I think when I received a lot of national attention in the States it was a little bit startling to realize the book had that much impact on the readers here. But to know that an international award of this magnitude that the book is deserving of that or has enough merit elsewhere was really breathtaking to me. I think I'm still trying to figure out the exact words of what I feel.

SB: In your acceptance speech, you spoke about a former student of yours, Katherine, who really sparked this novel. Tell me about her?

EA: So Katherine was a student who would tell me that she didn't really consider herself a reader. It was incredibly difficult to get her to want to do the 12 minutes of reading we had to do every day in class or to get her interested in the novels that we were discussing. And when I finally asked her what kinds of books can I put in front of you? Her answer was the books you put in front of us aren't about us. Where are the books about us? And I think that question of what does it mean to be able to verbalize that you want to see yourself in literature. That part of your lack of interest is not in your ability, but is in not seeing yourself and your family and your community reflected. I remember having that feeling as a young person and realized things had not changed in the decade since I had sat in Katherine's seat.

SB: What was she missing that she craved?

EA: I think part of it was contemporary stories that deal with Latin and black characters in a way that sounds like them, that feels like it is of the culture, and made in the direction of these readers. I think she wanted stories that felt real and honest and unflinching, but also tender, right? That felt like they depicted actual young people of colour.

SB: You talked about the space she took up — her body and her voice. There's a there's a line that struck me in your writing: when your body takes up more room than your voice.

EA: Right, but I think I mean I was a young woman who called a lot of attention when I walked through the world because of my body, right? But no one was really asking you what I thought or felt or the ideas that I had. And so what does it mean to be hyper-visible, but also to be invisible in terms of your thoughts your feelings and your ideas? I wanted to kind of grab that balance of learning how to be a woman in the world when you are to be silent and looked at and just receive that attention without being able to push back.

SB: So how did you decide to try to navigate that in your novel? How did your 15-year-old Xiomara make her way through those issues?

EA: I don't think that when I sat down to write this character was over thinking what those kinds of moments would come through. It was more as I was writing her, I realized okay, when you are a poet and you have all of these thoughts and you have your secret journal that no one knows about, what does it mean to have the words you want to say whenever you are catcalled in the street? Whenever someone makes a comment about your body, when someone pulls out your bra strap, but not feel like you have the permission to say the things that you've written down. And so I kept wanting to go back and forth between what you hear her say, what is the actual dialogue, and then what the thoughts are behind the scenes of what she's processing, and the silences that are imposed on girls.

SB: You're a slam poet, and this is actually your first novel. Beyond the verse, how did your experience performing your poetry actually influence the way you approached the book — the way you wrote it?

EA: I'm always thinking about audience. I'm thinking about how language makes an impact on the ear. That it's just what does a poem look like on the page, but what does the language do once it uttered? And so a lot of what I think is the energy of The Poet X is that every word makes an impact when it's heard out loud.

SB: Would you read a short excerpt for us from the book?

EA: Yes.

SB: Okay, just give us a quick setup about what we're about to hear.

EA: So early on in The Poet X, you begin getting insight into who Xiomara is, and her description of herself. And so this section is from the first few pages, worth Xiomara is talking about her relationship with her mother, and what it means to grow up in a household where she is misunderstood. [A term in Spanish] is Mommy's favorite way to start a sentence. And I know I've already done something wrong when she hits me with look, girl. Marina from across the street told me you were on the stoop again talking. Like usual, I bite my tongue and don't correct her, because I haven't been talking to the drug dealers, they'd been talking to me. But she said she doesn't want any conversation between me and those boys — or any boys at all. And she'd better not hear about me hanging out like a wet shirt on a clothesline, just waiting to be worn. Or she would go ahead and be the one to wring my neck. [a term in Spanish] she asks, but walks away before I can answer. Sometimes I want to tell her the only person in this house who isn't heard is me.

SB: Thank you. I enjoyed talking to you. Congratulations again.

EA: Thanks so much, Susan. I appreciate it. Thank you.

SB: Bye-bye.

EA: Bye.

KG: Elizabeth Acevedo is the author of "The Poet X," which recently won the Carnegie Medal children's book award. She was in Washington D.C. "The Poet X" is published in Canada by HarperCollins. If you'd like to find out more about Ms. Acevedo and her book, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Piano]

Giant bird

KG: If you get a biggish chicken at the supermarket, it'll weigh about two-and-a-bit kilos, or 5 pounds. And if you eat that whole chicken yourself, you'll eat about 1-point-3 kilos of meat, which is 3 pounds. Maybe that's enough for you. But maybe, sometimes, when you're sitting there with a picked-clean carcass in front of you, you think: "I know I just ate a whole chicken. But deep down, I feel like that 3 pounds of meat just...isn't enough." But my point is you are kind of getting ripped off. Because scientists are suggesting that early humans had a much, much meatier bird to put on their ancient rotisseries. The bird has been called Pachystruthio dmanisensis. According to a new study in the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, it was: "One of the largest known avians... and the only bird of such giant size in Europe and the Northern Hemisphere."Last year, a large, well-preserved femur was discovered among a bunch of other fossils in Crimea. Scientists traced its distinctive shape and thickness to today's ostriches. They estimated that bird was thriving about 1-point-7 million years ago, alongside Homo erectus. They also estimate that it was 3-point-7 metres tall, and weighed about 450 kilograms. That's 12 feet, and 990 pounds. There's no definitive proof that ancient humans ate those giant birds. But, very roughly, they could have got about 600 pounds of meat from one. So, I'm pretty sure that, back in the day, when they heard one stomping around, they immediately started salivating -- and went marching to the beat of a different drumstick.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

June 28, 219 episode transcript

More Stories Like This