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The AIH Transcript for May 07, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

JD: Tonight:

CO: He is operating while the ground shakes beneath his feet. A surgeon in describes treating an overflow of casualties — as wave after wave of airstrikes destroy the health centres of Idlib.

JD: Melting shots. During a speech on global security and global warming, the US Secretary of State revives a gripe about Canada's sovereignty over the Northwest Passage.

CO: The primacy of love. A tribute to Jean Vanier, who's faith in humanity inspired an international network of homes where disabled and non-disabled people live side-by-side.

JD: Our privilege. The author Ian Brown describes how Mr Vanier made it possible for him to recognize the gift of being able to share his life with his disabled son.

CO: Border costing. A self-described 'caravan' of American diabetics says they have crossed into Canada to buy insulin at a fraction of the price.

JD: And...drowning in cash. A start-up sucks in millions from investors for something called 'Liquid Death' that threatens to "murder your thirst". It turns out to be a can of water.

JD: "As It Happens", the Tuesday edition. Radio that can't help but admire their salesman-sip.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Syria hospital, Northwest Passage, Encore: Jean Vanier

Syria hospital

Guest: Mohamad Abrash

JD: For the past ten days, the Northwest region of Syria has seen a tremendous amount of bombings — more than they've seen in months. In Idlib and Hama provinces, twelve medical centres have been damaged by airstrikes, and put out of service. It's the last region of Syria that is still controlled by rebel groups. And this latest bombardment has also meant that tens of thousands of civilians are fleeing their homes, once again. Mohamad Abrash is a surgeon who is staying put — and working overtime. He works at Idlib Central Hospital, in Idlib City. That's where we reached him.

CO: Dr. Abrash, how busy has it been at Idlib Central Hospital since all these other medical centres have been bombed?

MOHAMAD ABRASH: After destroying all the more than five or six hospital or medical points, all the civilians — injured people — coming to us, so that our hospital all the time is busy. And we are operating virtually all the time — starting morning ‘tll evening.

CO: What kinds of injuries are you treating?

MA: For me, I’m a general surgeon dealing with the abdomen, and sometimes the chest because we don't have a thoracic surgeon actually. Other colleague, they are dealing with the brain injuries, with vascular injuries, with orthopedics. Actually, with the orthopedics, we will receive many because most of the injuries with people because they are running, they are falling down, they have broken bones everywhere in their bodies. And I’m operating on the abdomen actually, dealing with injuries inside the abdomen.

CO: And so if you say they are war injuries, these are people who have been wounded by the bombs, by shrapnel, by these explosions. Is that right?

MA: Yes, this is what they mean by war injury. I am feeling so happy if I saved one life.

CO: Did you save a life today?

MA: Yeah, three, three.

CO: What were those injuries?

MA: One splenic injury, one liver injury, and one colonic injury.

CO: Was all of that from shrapnel?

MA: Yes.

CO: Can you describe how intense the bombing has been in Idlib and Hama provinces?

MA: Actually, we are in Idlib City, hearing the bombs. Hearing that like earthquake. Every five minutes or less than five minutes, we are feeling that the ground is shaking under our feet. The sound of the planes over us still coming, and we can hear the sound of aircrafts.

CO: Do you believe them to be Russian aircraft?

MA: Yes, I believe it is Russian and Syrian also.

CO: So there are some videos of the airstrikes on these medical centres. There's one medical centre that is underground that there is a video, I'm sure you have seen it. It's it's very, very disturbing. It seems that they're possibly striking these hospitals with what they call bunker busters. Do you have any idea what kind of bombs they're dropping on these hospitals?

MA: Really, I am not the expert in these bombs. But really I saw the video, and it's really something put me in shock really to see this kind of explosion — very big. And they bombed the same area five times. At the same time, they put five missiles one after one.

CO: Did people have a chance to evacuate patients from those hospitals?

MA: If you saw, there is one patient evacuated from [a hospital] where the patient came out with his I.V. fluid, and he was running in the street.

CO: We've had a report from the Syrian American Medical Society. It says six hospitals and six clinics were targeted with these bombs from the aircraft, and they are now closed. What does that going to do for people and these facilities.

MA: Really, we cannot work forever. And we are also maybe we will have the same — maybe they will attack our hospital. So that the people there cannot find any place to take their medication or their operations or they will go to the Turkey border, and they will tried to broke this wall between Turkey and Syria and go inside Turkey. This is the people what they are thinking that we have to evacuate it to the Turkey border.

CO: So you think that the strategy here is to force people out of Idlib and out of the country altogether?

MA: They are pushing them to go to Europe or to go to America or go to any place they would accept this refugee.

CO: The Syrian regime — the government — says the airstrikes are to get back at the al-Qaida-linked militants who attacked government positions in April. This is the government's way of targeting al-Qaida militants and not hospitals. What do you say to the regime?

MA: I cannot believe anything coming out through the regime. All the people I know, those are our relatives our friends our area. We are living since years together here. And all of them, they are trying, protesting before in 2011 just for freedom. And we don't know how they put us in this small area, and they collect us in this small area, and they are saying you are terrorists. Actually, we are not looking for politics.

CO: And you're seeing now on top of all the other work as a surgeon, you're now dealing with these war injuries. What toll is that taking on you?

MA: You see I am now old men. My hair was black. Now it's white. But I have to work. I have to give service to our people. Today only, I stayed in OR; I did three operation. It's six-hour continuously I'm working.

CO: If you have six hospitals and six medical centers bombed only in recent days and weeks, and there is almost no news coverage at all, what does that say to you?

MA: The world is not the concerning about us. The United Nation is looking to us like numbers only. They will count how many people died, and they will do nothing. They are only have meetings, meetings, and meetings. For us, we are not taking care about this. We are in the ground, and we are facing our fate. If we will die, we will die.

CO: Dr. Abrash, I know you have a lot to do. And I'm not going to keep you any longer. And I'm sure you're very tired as well. But I hope that everything is ok, and remains ok at your hospital. And thank you for speaking with us.

MA: Thank you very much.

CO: Goodnight.

MA: Goodnight.

JD: Mohamad Abrash is a surgeon at Idlib Central Hospital. He is treating an overflow of patients because a dozen medical centres near him have closed after being hit by air strikes. For more on this story, go to our website. www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Northwest Passage

Guest: Fen Hampson

JD: Canada and its neighbour to the south appear to be headed toward some rough waters. In Finland yesterday, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo dismissed Canada's claims to the Arctic waterway as, quote, "illegitimate." Canada has always maintained its sovereignty over the Northwest Passage, while other countries consider them international waters. For more than 30 years, However, Canada and the U.S. have politely agreed to disagree. Fen Hampson is a research director at the Centre for International Governance Innovation in Waterloo, Ontario. We reached him in Ottawa.

CO: Mr. Hampson, what message do you think the U.S. secretary of state was trying to send to the Canadian government in that speech he made yesterday?

FEN HAMPSON: Carol, it's not a very friendly message. In fact, it's a message that is turning back 30 years of basic understanding that we've had with the Americans to agree to disagree about who owns the Northwest Passage.

CO: But Mike Pompeo said that Canadian claims on the Northwest Passage were, quote, “illegitimate”. Is that true?

FH: That's the American interpretation. Our reading has always been that we have ownership of the Northwest Passage. And the American position is that this is an international waterway. And you know, that that position has not changed. But I think the way it was said was really saying that the previous regime that we had with the Americans is simply not on.

CO: But this agree to disagree that you're describing. This goes back to the Canada-U.S. agreement on Arctic cooperation. And it was a handshake between President Reagan and Prime Minister Brian Mulroney because they were friends. I mean is it worth the paper it's written on?

FH: Well, it's clearly been seen as being worth the paper it's written on, Carol, because both countries have adhered to that agreement for the better part of 30 years. And so you know to try to upset that apple cart now is not going to serve anybody's interests.

CO: Okay, but where is it in stone? Where is it in law? Because now with climate change, this is regarded as a viable trade route. It's a way for cargo to possibly go from the Atlantic to the Pacific not to the Panama Canal. This is something that is now a thing. So do we have any say over who comes through the Northwest Passage?

FH: Carol, the fact of the matter is is there's not a whole lot we can do about it. But one of the things we do have to do is to increase our presence in the north by building more icebreakers. It's also something quite frankly that the Americans themselves have to do. At the end of the day, the Americans have a very strong interest in adhering to the regime that we've had in place for the better part of 30 years. Nobody wants a major oil spill in the north. Nobody wants a major environmental disaster in the north. And that's why we have these agreements.

CO: Okay, so in those instances, let’s say that if there is an oil spill, if there is an accident, if there is someone stuck in ice, if there is some contraband going through. I mean do we have any way of controlling that? And who’s responsible for that?

FH: Well, one of the ways you control it is that anybody who is going through the Northwest Passage has to notify Canadian authorities that they're going up there.

CO: By law, they have to notify Canadian authorities?

FH: They don't have to notify us by law, but that has been the basis of the agreement with the Americans. And that is a set of norms and standards that we can also apply to others.

CO: But those norms and standards, we just heard Mike Pompeo yesterday fly in the face of that. That was just a slap in our face over that. So if that's all there is is sort of an understanding this is how it's always been done, is that enough when we're dealing with possibly people moving cargoes that we can't monitor, toxic substances, contraband? We have legally no recourse. Is that what you're saying?

FH: Well legally, we have very little recourse. You're absolutely right. But the kind of recourse we do have is if we work with the Americans, and obviously, work with other like-minded countries in the north to set common standards to try to enforce those standards. And also, you know one of the ways you do it is that you have a much greater physical presence in the north with more icebreakers, more patrols so that you know what's going on up there.

CO: But then that leads to the question of what liability we have. So if there is an oil spill, if there is somebody stuck in the ice, somebody in need then we're responsible. So we are the ones that will send the Coast Guard or the icebreaker to rescue people. We will take that responsibility, but have no control over who goes there?

FH: Well, it has to be a shared responsibility because the ice pack moves, oil spills move. They don't respect national boundaries. We know that. And therefore, the only way you're going to really address this problem is through international cooperation. And that begins with the Americans. And that means you know saying to them you know don't tear up an agreement that has served both our countries very well for the past 30 years.

CO: But yesterday's message, it wasn't one of Donald Trump's tweet that can be taken or not taken at face value. This was a speech — a written speech — that said that our claim in the Northwest Passage was illegitimate. What kind of response do you think Canada should make to that?

FH: Well, I certainly wouldn't pull out the bullhorns because that will simply escalate matters. I mean I think this is a time to pull the Americans quietly aside to say are you sure you really meant that? You know that the lesson we've learned dealing with the Americans is keep your head down and try to show them that this is going to hurt them just as much as it may hurt us.

CO: All right. Watch this space. Mr. Hampson, thank you.

FH: Thanks very much, Carol. My pleasure.

CO: Bye-bye

FH: Bye.

JD: Fen Hampson is the Director of the Global Security & Politics program at the Centre for International Governance Innovation. We reached him in Ottawa.

[Music: Ambient]

Encore: Jean Vanier

JD: Jean Vanier lived a life that was fuller than most. He was the son of a governor general, but decided to leave behind a career in academia to live a humble life away from the world he knew. In 1964, he invited two men with developmental disabilities to live with him in a small house in France. They'd been in an institution. The idea was radical and new. And it worked. Today, there is a network of homes in 38 countries built on Jean Vanier's model. It's called L'Arche. As you may have heard on the news, Jean Vanier has died. He was 90 years old. In 2015, after he won the Templeton Prize for his humanitarian work, Mr. Vanier spoke to Carol. Here, again, is that interview:

CO: Mr. Vanier, congratulations.

JEAN VANIER: Well, thank you very much.

CO: How does it feel to be recognized as someone who has as they say contributed to the spiritual dimension of humankind?

JV: Well, what I sense is that it's a beautiful recognition of people with disabilities. Because I've been living with them now for 50 years. And I have discovered — like many others — that they are wonderful people. And we have fun together. And all the rest. So I feel very privileged to be living with people with disabilities, and helping them to discover the incredible beauty. And they're helping me to discover what it really means to be human.

CO: As you mentioned, this journey began for you 50 years ago. And this is a time when you invited two men with disabilities to live with you in your home in France who otherwise would have been in institutions. What inspired you to do that?

JV: Well, it goes back a long story. I had been in the Royal Canadian Navy, but I felt I wanted to leave the baby because somewhere I felt that peace could only come to our world if we struggled to follow the gospel message. And the gospel message is very simple. It's to announce good news to the poor. So I came to France, and I discovered when I went to meet a priest that I knew well, he was chaplain of a small institution for people with mental disabilities. I discovered this world of how people like that have been so humiliated, pushed aside, put it to institutions, looked down upon, and for parents to feel ashamed. And I visited an institution, which I found a very violent one and a very difficult one — and where I felt that the people there were being mistreated. So all I could do was maybe just welcome two of them to a small house that a few friends and myself were able to have. And we began just living together.

CO: And thus began what is now this network — L’Arche Network — about 150 homes around the world.

JV: Yes, that’s right.

CO: Can you just describe that L’Arche experience? What is it that makes it so different than other places?

JV: Well, I can't say for every other place, but there are some places which are doing good to people. But the difference is that we want to live together, laugh together, be together, create community together, celebrate together. It's not a group of people doing things for them. So there’s something about this togetherness where we discover that were mutually helping each other. I would say mutually healing each other.

CO: I want to ask you just about your background in Canada, and well in your early years. You grew up in well a world of privilege, didn't you? Your father was a diplomat. Later, he was governor general. But you wanted to help those who were weak. You could have had a life of being with the powerful, but you wanted to be with the weak. What is it that you want people to understand about human frailty?

JV: I think there's something about peace also that to live with people with disabilities it's a good life. And I don't know whether it's a good life to live with powerful people. I mean those sort of ideas that I've left the really good life of power. But I'm not sure that power really brings happiness. Whereas being together, being bonded together, and seeing people grow, seeing also assistants who come to live with us change and are transformed. You see, we're in a world where there’s so many people just blocked off one from another. I remember going to Chile, And on the way from the airport to Santiago, the driver slowed up, and he said on the left are all the slum areas of Santiago. On the right are all the rich houses protected by the military and by police. And then he added nobody crosses this road. I mean we’re in a world where people are frightened of each other. And so because we're frightened, because we feel insecure, we close up behind groups. And there in some ways we destroy our humanity.

CO: You have as you've described helped through L’Arche so many people live full lives who would not otherwise. But you didn't raise your own family. You never took on a life partner. And has it ever been lonely for you?

JV: No, you know when I left the Navy, it was to follow Jesus. And I just felt that that at that moment that I wouldn't get married. But I must say L’Arche has become a wonderful family, a community, a family, and you know I've felt fulfilled, and I’m fulfilled. I mean I can say that you know I've had a very beautiful life with people.

CO: Is there anything left that you want to accomplish? That you hope to do?

JV: Well, you know I'm 86, and I see the doors of 90 approaching. I just want to be what I should be. Each year, I'll probably be getting weaker because that's the reality of every person. We begin as little children, and we die as people like little children. So all I hope is that to continue just being the little house that I am, and to celebrate and to continue as much as I can to eat at the home that I've been now for the last about 35 years.

CO: Mr. Vanier, I hope for your many more years of living with that joy and bliss in that family of yours. And I thank you so much for speaking with me.

JV: All right. Bless you. And peace to you.

CO: Thank you.

JD: That was Jean Vanier, in conversation with Carol in 2015. Jean Vanier has died. He was 90 years old. Later on the show, we'll hear from Ian Brown, the author of "The Boy In The Moon." He met Mr. Vanier while writing the book about his disabled son, Walker.

[Music: Jazz]

Liquid Death

JD: It's hard to know when the Eureka moment will hit. For Mike Cessario, it came with one shockingly obvious, realization, quote, "Nothing's better than water at murdering your thirst." Water murders thirst. And from that moment on, the ideas just started flowing for Mr. Cessario. And today, the former Netflix creative director proudly announced his new venture. "Liquid Death" is a direct-to-consumer canned-water company. The sleek tallboy cans of his lethal beverage are only available online. Now, we should note that "Liquid Death" won't actually kill you. But the melting golden skull logo on the two-dollar can will let your friends know you're staying punk while you're staying hydrated. In fact, before Mr. Cessario worked on campaigns for Netflix heavyweights like "Narcos" and "Stranger Things" he played in punk and metal bands. And as he told Business Insider, when asked about Liquid Death's eco-footprint, quote, "It makes sense. Everything metal and punk is extreme. Being vegan is extreme. There are more vegans at a heavy-metal show than a Taylor Swift show. We are by far the most sustainable option for packaged water, which is a big driver for why people want to buy from us." Unqoute. And investors are thirsty. There may not be a deadly secret inside Mr Cessario's canned H2O. But with more than two million dollars in backing — "Liquid Death" certainly has life.

[Music: Show tune]

Part two: Insulin caravan, Jean Vanier obit

Insulin caravan

Guest: Lija Greenseid

JD: A group of Americans embarked on road trip to Canada last weekend. Not to take in the sights of Northwestern Ontario. They came to buy insulin. And it was worth the long journey because the price of the diabetes medication is very much cheaper in the north. The group called themselves the Caravan to Canada. And Lija Greenseid was one of the participants. She came to buy a type of insulin for her daughter that's not covered by her U.S. health insurance. We reached Ms. Greenseid in St. Paul, Minnesota.

CO: Lija, how far did you travel to buy this insulin in Canada?

LIJA GREENSEID: We drove about 300 miles each way, for ten hours total for our trip.

CO: Ten hours. And so was it worth it? What you called the Caravan to Canada was it was it worth your while?

LG: Absolutely, it was. So, first of all, I got to buy some insulin that I otherwise can't buy here in the United States with my insurance. So that's really helpful to me and to my daughter with type 1 diabetes. And also, I think it's working because we're raising a lot of attention to the problem of the high insulin prices here in the United States.

CO: How many people went with you?

LG: There were a total of six of us, either people with diabetes, or people like myself who have children or others with diabetes.

CO: Just give us some ideas of how much cheaper it is to buy the insulin in Canada than it is in the United States.

LG: It's about one-tenth the cost. So a vial of Novo Rapid in Canada costs about 30 U.S. dollars. And in the United States, that same vial — it's called Nova Log — costs about 300 dollars.

CO: And some of the other people in the group, what were their stories?

LG: One of my friends Quinn, she is paying about 600 dollars a month for insulin. And she was able to bring back with her a three-month supply, and saved about three thousand dollars for her insulin. There are a couple others that are like that as well who bought a whole many months of supply for themselves to use. I personally bought a type of insulin that our insurance won't cover here in the United States. It's a backup type of insulin that we'd use if my daughter's insulin pump were to fail. And I'm very grateful to be able to buy exactly the right types that I want to be able to have for her that we've always used in the past, instead of the new type that our insurance is now only going to cover.

CO: So in your case, hundreds of dollars. In the cases of some of the other people, thousands of dollars for very short periods of time of the insulin supply. Is that typical of what people are facing in the United States?

LG: It is typical. There are many of us who are insured and have what we call a high deductible health insurance plan. So we pay for the first seven thousand dollars of my daughter's health needs each year. And that's becoming more and more the case that the upfront costs are being passed off to American patients. So last year, my family we paid twenty-seven thousand dollars — U.S. dollars — for our health care insurance premiums and for medications and hospitalizations and everything else for my family.

CO: And the issue with insulin though is that it's getting more expensive to buy. Why is that in the United States?

LG: Well, all health care costs keep going up in the United States. And really frankly the reason why is because we don't have a government way of regulating or putting any price caps on prescription drugs. So the price continues to increase. The type of insulin that my daughter uses, there are only two manufacturers worldwide of a similar type. And they continue to increase their prices lockstep together. This has been going on for many years now, and I think we're finally at the breaking point where the cost is just too high for too many people.

CO: And there have been reports in the U.S. Congress about this that the prices of insulin are so high that people are rationing their insulin due to that. And this is across the United States then.

LG: That's correct. There’s been some research recently that about one in four people with diabetes are rationing their insulin in the United States. And as we know, if people with diabetes don't have enough insulin, their blood sugar will be high. And that can result in some terrible long-term complications such as blindness, and amputation, and kidney disease. In the short-term, if someone with type 1 diabetes doesn't have enough insulin, they can die. And there's a very sad story here in Minnesota of a young man, Alex Smith, who lost his mother's insurance when he turned 26 years old, and rationed his insulin, and died within a month of losing insurance. He had gone to a pharmacy to fill his prescription, and it was going to be 1,300 dollars. He only had a thousand dollars in his bank account, and tried to use insulin sparingly to get through to payday. But he didn't make it.

CO: Oh, that's tragic. And in Canada, I mean came into Ontario right with your group?

LG: Correct.

CO: And do we have a single plan don't we? That's why a lot of the drugs in Canada end up cheaper because we have group insurance. And so you have series of companies that don't have the same sort of buying clout as Canada. That’s how it's worked with other drugs. But insurance companies in the U.S. have acknowledged that insulin prices are under control, are they doing anything to try to rein them in?

LG: There's been more efforts recently as there's been increased pressure from patients. But there are many people who still are paying too much. And without a broader coordinated effort, I fear that there will always be some who slip through the cracks and aren't able to get the insulin that they need.

CO: But you also came as a group, and you've talked about it a lot because you want to make a point. You want people to know this is what you're doing. So has anyone heard you? Do you think that you got your message out?

LG: Well, there are a whole lot of us who have been advocating for affordable insulin under the #insulinforall. And collectively, I think we are making a difference. We are seeing that Congress is starting to pay attention, and are considering different options. So I am hopeful at least that the pressure is on, and there may be some changes here. But you know, change can be slow in a in a large complicated system like this. So in the meantime, people have to do what they need to do to be able to stay healthy.

CO: Lija, thanks for speaking with us.

LG: Sure. Thank you so much.

CO: Bye-bye.

LG: Bye-bye.

JD: We reached Lija Greenseid in St. Paul, Minnesota.

[Music: Ambient]

Reuters journalists

JD: After 511 days in a Myanmar prison, Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo are finally free. The Reuters journalists were arrested after investigating the murders of ten Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar's Rakhine state. They were sentenced to seven years in prison for possessing secret documents, after what is widely believed to have been a set up. But today, the pair was released under a presidential amnesty that has seen thousands of other prisoners freed over the past month. As they walked out of the gates of Insein prison, Wa Lone spoke to reporters, including those from the BBC, and expressed his gratitude.

SOUNDCLIP

WA LONE: Inside in the prison and also around the world, people wishing to release us. So I would like to say thank you very much. I'm really excited to see my family and my colleagues. And I can't wait to go my newsroom.

REPORTER: You won the Pulitzer Prize. Are you going to be able to be a journalist in Myanmar in the future?

WL: I am a journalist, and I'm going to continue.

JD: Wa Lone also became a father while he was in prison. And he spoke today about what he would say to his wife and family.

SOUNDCLIP

WL: I usually bring iced coffee for her all the time being home late, so I will buy coffee for her, and I will say how much I love her, and how much I love my family.

JD: From the BBC, that's Reuters journalist Wa Lone. He and his colleague, Kyaw Soe Oo, were released from a Myanmar prison today, under a presidential amnesty.

[Music: Indie rock]

Jean Vanier obit

Guest: Ian Brown

JD: Jean Vanier touched many people's lives. As we told you earlier, the Canadian humanitarian has died at the age of 90. In 1964, he opened the first of what would become a network of homes called L'Arche. People with developmental disabilities and those without lived side-by-side in the homes. At the time, he spoke to CBC News about the project:

SOUNDCLIP

JV: They sent them to large institutions. I can tell you it's a really very sad thing to visit some of these large institutions where you find 1,000; 1,500; sometimes 2,000 mentally deficient together. They find that the living dead. And well what we wanted to do was to create small family homes for these men who are wonderful people where we live all together. Where there's not this sort of distinction between the director and those that are directed — where they all feel that we are all a family together. I must say they've taught me a great deal. You see if we're really honest with ourselves in our world, we're becoming hard, we’re becoming indifferent through our ambitions. Our civilization is a hard civilization. What you discover with these mentally deficient is though they're deficient mentally, they're not at all deficient cordially of their hearts. And they're not deficient spiritually either, I would say. They could teach us the primacy of love. To tell you a story of Michelle, for instance, a girl, 13, blind, deaf, dumb, will never be able to walk, incontinent. I spent maybe half an hour with Michelle one day, and I must say she taught me a great deal. I held hands with Michelle. She is the only means of communication between Michelle and myself. And what Michelle taught me was that in order to communicate, we have to become really loyal and true and poor ourselves. Most of the time when we're in front of people we're playing a game. We're playing games with ourselves. We're playing games with them. We're pretending with somebody else that we really are. And I found that with Michelle you break down all the barriers and ambition, and you just have to become your real self.

JD: Jean Vanier speaking to CBC, not long after he started L'Arche in the 1960s. One of the people who forged a bond with Mr. Vanier was author Ian Brown. He is the author of the book, "Boy In The Moon." It chronicles the life of his severely disabled son, Walker — and his own struggle to make sense of Walker's life. While writing the book, Ian Brown got to know Jean Vanier. We reached Mr. Brown in Sifnos, Greece.

CO: Ian, there are so many comments and testimonies online of people whose lives Jean Vanier changed and he touched. What do you think made Joan van is such a remarkable individual?

IAN BROWN: I think he was both very charismatic and very disciplined. Very easy to talk to, very accepting, and at the same time, he would always keep his eye on the ball. He always had a point. You know I remember one day talking to him, and I said what's it like getting old, you know? And nothing fazed him. And he said oh you know, I like the birds outside. I like the way they hop around. You know they seem free to me. And I I'm trying to be freer myself as I get older and more fragile. He always accepted the way he was. But he also always made a point. And it was that combination I think that made so many people you know want to be around him. And there were lot of people at L’Arche who went for a month and stayed 30 years. That is a rare talent. And you can't do that unless you're both pretty easy to get along with and keep your eye on the prize.

CO: And for you personally, you first met him when your own life you needed someone like Mr. Vanier to help you. And for people who have not read your book, “Boy In The Moon”, what was going on for you when you first met Jean Vanier?

IB: I was looking for a place that my son Walker might eventually live. Walker suffers from a rare very rare condition. He's 22, he looks about twelve, and he has the mind of one and a half year old. You know, he can't speak, he can't take care of himself. He needs 24 hour care. And it was really driving us crazy. It was way harder than anybody ever described, and also more interesting than anybody ever described. So I wanted to have a relationship, but also find a place for him to live after we were gone. And in the course of looking for a place, I ran into L’Arche. And went and visited Vanier because I didn't believe that there could be this place where you know in most group homes or most care settings, it's the care that really matters. And that's great. But what Vanier convinced me of was that people like my son not only had an inner life. Not only was a person with you know lots to offer, however subtle it was to see. But he showed me that actually what he himself realized that the intellectually disabled have more to offer us than we can offer them. I mean we can't really save them. We can't fix them. But they can open us up in ways that I think we never can. And when I met him, and lived for three days in a house where most of the people in there didn't talk, and all we did was have breakfast lunch and dinner together for a couple of days. But I came out of that realizing this strange equality between me and them. Not that they were equal to me. I already realized that but, but that I was equal to them. And I think that was what Vanier showed me was that when you make a connection to somebody in a way that you have to kind of ad lib it. You have to create it in the moment. That makes you see not only that let's say Walker is my equal, but that I can be Walker's equal. And that was a huge liberation. And you know it was Vanier. He figured that out when he moved in with a couple of guys you know who were 45 that couldn’t talk, you know? He had no experience looking after them. He just I think I’ll open a little house. I don't even think that running water. I once said to him you know what were you thinking? Were you out of your mind? And he said well, I thought we could have some fun. I said well, how are you going to do that? And he said well, I had a little car, and I thought we could drive around a bit. He was right. That's what you need to do. And when I met him, I realized what a big answer that was.

CO: He had a job at the University of Toronto. He was in his 30s. As you say, he went over and he decided I'm going to try and help these people. And I'm going to live with them. I'm going to share their lives. I’m going to walk in their shoes. And now, when you were visiting L’arche, how did Jean Vanier relate to them? Was he still is as much part of their lives as he was at the very beginning?

IB: he lived you know in Trosly-Breuil, which is where the first one started. It’s still the headquarters of L’Arche internationally. When he was there, I think he had every lunch and every dinner in the foyer with you know his companions, his friends, these people he lived with for more than 50 years. It was strange when you would see him. You know, he'd walk into the house, and everybody would go crazy. You know, he'd been there at lunch, but he was back! And they were going crazy again. And you know people would come up to him and you know they'd hug him, or they tell him a joke, tell him something that happened you know, and he'd laugh. And they'd embrace. And I remember sitting at lunch one day and one of those houses. And I was sitting next to a guy whose name was Jean-Claude, and he was about 50. And he was in a wheelchair, and he couldn't speak, and his right arm was paralyzed. He had a large stuffed raccoon taped to the arm of his wheelchair. And there was a bottle of wine on the table it being France. I noticed that Jean-Claude was looking at the bottle of wine, and I said to the head of the house you know can he have some wine? And you know, this guy Gary said of course he can! He's a connoisseur. He's 50 years old, he's French, you know? And so I pour him a glass of wine, and I pour myself a glass of wine, and because I'm helping him, he wants to help me. And so you know we get in this Gordian knot. And finally I when I say au chantier, Jean-Claude. And bang! You know there's wine everywhere. And Jean-Claude goes haha! Like this fantastic reaction. And I thought man you know that has got to be the most memorable toast I've ever given. And it was that capacity to figure out a way where you're all on the same level. That was Vanier’s… that was his thing. And he lived it every single day. I mean every time he went back, every moment was a new moment, a reinvented moment.

CO: I know you kept up a correspondence with him through letters, which must be very precious to you. He told you the real person is the one who is learning to love. And he spoke about vulnerability, and how that allows you to love, and opens things up. It was profound, and to somebody else, it might be kind of trite. But he had this ability to say these profound things. What stays with you most about what he taught you?

IB: I can't even begin to count them. I still every two weeks I go up to my son Walker's house, and I get him, and I bring him back home for a couple of days, and then we go back up there. He lives with seven people, none of whom can speak. Many of whom have quite severe intellectual and physical disabilities. And every time I go up there, I am petrified. I’m ashamed to admit this, but it is true. And every time I go into that house, I am petrified. Every time I walk in, I think I don't know what to do. I can't fix anybody. Their isolation terrifies me and makes me sad. You know, I just don't know what to do. And every time I walk in there, I remember what Vanier said, which is you know they don't want you to save them. I have two questions. You know could you love me? And could you be my friend? And, of course, when you're there, you know and somebody is in front of you, if you can stop trying to make them into something you want them to be and accept them as they are, then you can be accepted as you are. And you can find this great equality that I think was the centre of Vanier’s theory — the centre of the way he lived. He told me once when I said you were a professor at U of T, you're a very popular lecturer, you know this at the time of Marshall McLuhan, Northrup Fry, and he was right up there. And then you leave it to hang out with these people who often can't speak or take care of themselves. And he said yeah, but you know at university, my students they all wanted something from me. They all wanted a recommendation, or they wanted to be told they were smarter, he said here it's not like that. Here people are more generous. It's the generosity of people who are grateful to be considered one's equal. And the great gift of that generosity. If you consider somebody or equal who doesn't appear to be your equal. And they give you the gift of their own equality you know and of their acceptance. And this is in a world, of course, you know where we spend most of our time striving to be better than, richer than, smarter than, stronger than, more powerful than, get the advantage of. You know, it was freedom.

CO: Ian, I really appreciate you sharing your memories of Jean Vanier with us. Thank you.

IB: It was a pleasure. It's an honour to know him.

CO: Take care. Bye-bye.

IB: Bye.

JD: Ian Brown is the author of "The Boy In The Moon”. We reached him in Sifnos, Greece. You can find more on the life of Jean Vanier on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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Part three: Asylum seekers report, flying turtle

Bill 21 hearings

JD: Quebec's Bill 21 has divided public opinion. If it is passed, the controversial secularism bill would bar Quebec civil servants in positions of authority — including public school teachers and police officers — from displaying religious symbols at work. Critics saying it targets Muslim women who wear the hijab or niqab. But at hearings that began today, supporters were heard. They include Diane Guilbault. Ms Guilbault is a member of the feminist group "Pour les droits des femmes du Quebec" and she believes Bill 21 doesn't go far enough. She spoke to a CBC reporter in Quebec City before the hearing:

SOUNDCLIP

DIANE GUILBAULT: It should go a little further — especially in the schools. All the people in the school — including the educators and the daycare services — these specialists who come to the schools, should be included in the obligation of neutrality. During the day, while they are at the service of the student of the pupils, the teacher and the director and the people in the school have this obligation towards the pupils to be neutral. And to not show off what their preference are politically or religiously. The children's liberty is at the most important thing. And the teacher are at the services of the student. So they have to respect the liberty of conscious of the children. And not the other way. It's not the pupils who have to respect the liberty of conscious of the teachers. All the signs are included. So it's not specifically symbolic of the hijab itself that is problematic. It's all the religious signs that should be forbidden in the classroom.

JD: Diane Guilbault is a member of "Pour les droits des femmes du Quebec". She was speaking to the CBC in Quebec city earlier today. Hearings into the province's secularism bill continue this week. If you missed last night's interview with former Bloc Quebecois M-P Jean Dorion, who opposes the bill, head to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. Head

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FTR: BC plane crash

JD: Three people are dead and another is injured following a plane crash on Saturday near Smithers, British Columbia. The passengers on the small Cessna were taking infrared scans of the fires that ravaged so much of northern British Columbia last year. It was 26-year-old Amir Ilya Sedghi's second year on the job. A job he loved. Amir's older brother Ammar Sedqui spoke to the CBC in British Columbia.

SOUNDCLIP

AMMAR SEDQUI: It's just so extremely shocking and unfortunate. I mean I have another brother who is his twin and my sister who are holding on together to keep my parents alive. They're absolutely devastated. And Amir was the closest kid to my parents. He was at home until a week before he passed away. He just moved out. So they are extremely devastated. And it's just stuff that you don't see it happening to yourself until it happens. It's absolutely shocking. He was loving, and he had a unique sense of humour. The most intense situations, business-wise, family-wise, in the society, industry, he could just crack a joke and make everyone laugh. And you know it’s just he was so loving. He was so generous. I mean I hope when people think of him that they would just remember the innocence, and his you know his love for other human beings whether he knew them or he didn't know them or whether he connected with them or not. He just absolutely loved everybody.

JD: Ammar Sedqui was speaking to CBC Vancouver. His younger brother Amir was one of three people who were killed when the small plane they were in went down near Smithers, British Columbia on Saturday. The transportation safety board, the BC Coroners Service, and the RCMP are investigating the crash.

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Asylum seekers report

Guest: Carol McCalla

JD: The waits are lengthy and they're getting longer. That's what a new report has found about Canada's asylum system. Canada's Auditor General found that more than 71-thousand refugee claims are still waiting for a decision. The report finds that the government isn't keeping up with the surge in border crossings into Canada from the United States, that lengthy delays are endemic, and that clunky information systems haven't been upgraded. Even after system reforms in 2012. Carol McCalla is the lead auditor of this report. We reached her in Ottawa.

CO: Ms. McCalla, if these claims continue at this rate, how much longer should asylum seekers to Canada expect to wait?

CAROL MCCALLA: Well, we estimate that at the current volume of claims, if nothing is done, that backlogs are going to more than double in the next five years. So currently, the backlog for a hearing for a refugee claim is two years. And so with no further improvements, it will be more than five years for a protection decision.

CO: How long did it take before?

CM: Well, historically, Canada's refugee system has been challenged by growing backlogs and wait times. So the system was last reformed when there was a last serious backlog in wait times in 2012. And the government at that time set a timeline of two months for a protection decision. At that time, the wait times were around 19 or 20 months. Now we found that the wait times are actually now worse than when the system was last reformed in 2012.

CO: And now we're talking about possibly five years for someone to get a protection decision.

CM: Yes, if the current volumes continue.

CO: But to get a decision like this from the moment that someone arrives in Canada and they start their claim. Between that moment and when they are finally accepted or not accepted, there’s a whole bunch of things they have to go through. So where are the pinch points? Where are the bottlenecks in this process?

CM: We found a variety of bottlenecks within the process. There was a number of postponements for their hearings. So their hearings would be booked within two months, but those were usually postponed. And each claim was postponed an average of about five months. Now, two-thirds of claims we found over our audit period were actually postponed. So those postponements of a hearing pushed all of the existing claimants to essentially the back of the queue. They also need to have a security screening. And we found that there were backlogs with CBSA security screening, which also then postponed claims because claims cannot be heard until their security screening has been completed.

CO: What is the problem? Is it that they don't have the resources? They don't have the money? Why can't they get these different pinch points straightened out?

CM: Well, it requires the three organizations to work together in a concerted manner.

CO: Those organisations being Canada Border Services Agency, Immigration and Refugee citizenship, and the Refugee Board of Canada, right?

CM: That's correct. And each of them has a role to play in the refugee processing. So from the time that a person initially makes a claim, CBSA is responsible for doing their security screening. Now either immigration or Canada Border Services Agency can receive a refugee claim. And they will prepare documentation and review the claim for credibility concerns say with the identity of a person or for security concerns. And then they will present any concerns they have to the board. The board also schedules the hearing and has the members available to meet the claimants. Now, we found that most of the claims — about two-thirds of the claims — were postponed. But for administrative reasons under the control of the government — the claims were delayed through no fault of the claimant themselves.

CO: But are there no claimants like people coming through that clearly this claim is going to end up being rejected. Other ones where it's clearly this is a case where it’s clearly this is a case where someone needs protection. I mean is there no fast track process at all?

CM: Well, the 2012 did, in fact, set up a fast track process. And had the view that less complex claims could be quickly identified and fast tracked. And some of claims could actually be resolved without a hearing. But we found that that process was rarely used.

CO: But we are dealing with an unusual period. And it may be an aberration. We don't know yet. And we've seen in the past couple of years really an explosion in numbers of people who are claiming asylum. In 2017, it was double the number from the previous year. Again in 2018, 55,000 claims made. These are large numbers, and the government is putting things in place that may reduce some of those numbers. And things change, right? So is it excessive bureaucracy that's at fault here? Or is it possibly this is just an aberration period?

CM: It is indeed an exceptional volume of claims that are being heard, and not just in Canada but worldwide. All countries are dealing with increased volumes of refugee claimants. What we found though was that the Canadian system is ill equipped to deal with large spikes of volumes. It has a fixed capacity. So anytime there are spikes in volume, it quickly leads to a backlog. And because we've had a year over year spike in volumes, that's had a domino effect in increasing the wait times.

CO: So what does the government need to do?

CM: What the Government has announced now in budget 2019 is that they're going to increase the capacity. It does need additional resources. There needs to be more board members available to hear refugee claims. But it also needs to make significant improvements in how it processes with the resources it has.

CO: Meanwhile, what happens to all those people who are in the country for five years waiting to find out if they can legitimately remain in Canada? And, of course, you end up having a life, don't you? Or trying to have a life. What happens to all of them?

CM: Right. Well, the limbo that they're in and the uncertainty as to their future is definitely something that the government when they set up the refugee system wanted to avoid.

CO: And you also know that asylum seeking — the whole process of refugees — is a delicate subject in Canada. What does this do to Canadian confidence in the system?

CM: Well, with the system that we looked at, we did find that the processing was fair across the system. But definitely, Canada wants to have a system, and expects to have a system, that's fair and efficient. And the fairness is there with an independent tribunal. It's just the efficiency we saw really there is a lot of room for improvement.

CO: All right we'll leave it there. Ms. McCalla, thank you.

CM: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

JD: Carol McCalla is the lead auditor of the report from the Office of the Auditor General. We reached her in Ottawa.

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Pamela Anderson

JD: According to Pamela Anderson, Julian Assange is, quote, "the world's most innocent man." The former Baywatch actor visited Mr. Assange at London's Belmarsh Prison this morning. According to the Wikileaks website, it was Mr. Assange's first social visit since the Ecuadorian embassy recoked his asylum last month. Mr. Assange is still fighting extradition to the United States on conspiracy charges. Here is some of what Ms. Anderson told reporters outside the prison today after her visit with the Wikileaks founder.

SOUNDCLIP

PAMELA ANDERSON: Obviously, it's been very difficult to see Julian here, and to make her way through the prison to get to him was quite shocking and difficult. He does not deserve to be in a supermax prison. He has never committed a violent act. He's an innocent person. He hasn't access to a library computer. Any information he's really cut off from everybody. He hasn't been able to speak to his children. And public support is very important. Fundraising is very important. He needs all the support he can get. You know justice will depend on public support. And he's a good man. He's an incredible person. You know I love him. I can't imagine what he's been going through. And to see him was good to see him. It was great to see him. But he's… this is just misrule of law and operation. It is absolute shock. He's sacrificed so much to bring the truth out. And we deserve the truth. And that's all I can say. I'm sorry. I feel sick. I feel nauseous. We need to save his life. That's how serious it is.

JD: That was the actor Pamela Anderson speaking to reporters outside London's Belmarsh Prison today. She had just visted Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.

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Jess Phillips

JD: British Labour MP Jess Phillips is a woman, in politics, in the UK ... and as such, she has been subjected to online abuse for years. Ms. Phillips says a good deal of that trolling is due to the comments made by one man. Once a Youtuber, Carl Benjamin is now a European Parliament candidate for the nationalist party, UKIP. He first made a rape-related comment to Ms. Phillips on Twitter in 2016, while she was tweeting about online misogyny. Mr. Benjamin has refused to apologise for what he calls his, quote, "crimes against political correctness," and he made another rape-related insult on social media. The police are investigating. Here is the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire talking with Jess Phillips.

SOUNDCLIP

JESS PHILLIPS: I felt like how can somebody say that they would rape me forced, and be a legitimate candidate in an election? It was one thing when he was just some idiot off the Internet with a load of bros following him. It's a different thing when he's standing on the same platforms that I'm standing on — that he will potentially go to a parliament himself as an elected representative when he has said these things. And I just cannot believe our system is so weak at the moment that that's allowed to happen.

VICTORIA DERBYSHIRE: And when you got home I think you cried, didn’t you?

JP: Yeah, I mean I cried actually in the street in the Birmingham City Centre.

VD: Did you?

JP: Just because I felt like the enormous weight of years and years and years of abuse. And it's not that I'm frightened for the credible threat to me. Actually, I'm not frightened that anyone's going to hurt me.

VD: So you don't fear for your physical safety?

JP: I can’t live my life fearing for my physical safety. Otherwise I would do nothing. And I really like living my life like a normal person. So I don't let that creep in very often. What I do fear for is my mental health actually. And this is essentially like coercive control. Sometimes I'd rather someone were to punch me in the face than the constant degradation that you suffer as a woman in the public eye.

JD: That was British Labour MP Jess Phillips, speaking to the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire.

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Flying turtle

Guest: John Gardner

JD: It was more than a century ago when Mary Anderson hopped aboard a New York City streetcar during a rainy day. She noticed the driver had a hard time seeing, and had to stick his head out the side window instead. Inspiration struck, and Ms. Anderson went on to design and patent the first ever windshield wiper. Over the years, the device adapted, it has improved, but — to our knowledge — someone has yet to invent a wiper designed to clear turtles from the windshield. And that is bad news for John Gardner, who could have used such a device last week. We reached John Gardner in Conway, South Carolina.

CO: John, can you describe how a turtle got lodged into your windshield?

JOHN GARDNER: So I was going to work. I was on the 501, and in the lane on my right side there was a truck, and a turtle, and it got hit up by is a rear tire. And it just went into my windshield like that.

CO: How big a turtle?

JG: I guess I’d say about like a medium-size. It was probably like decent enough size to break a windshield, so…

CO: Now when this turtle hurled into your windshield, did you immediately know that you've been hit by a turtle?

JG: No, I could not tell what it was while it was in the air, and even like once it had been inside my windshield for a few seconds. It took me a little bit to be like oh, that's a turtle. Like I didn't have a chance to move out of the way or anything because it was just in the air, and it was a little busy, so I couldn’t like just change lanes and stuff like that.

CO: It seems to be in the passenger side, so you weren't hurt then I guess?

JG: No, just got covered in lots and lots of glass.

CO: The windshield is totaled here. I presume the turtle is as well.

JG: Yeah, unfortunately.

CO: Have you ever heard of this before? Has anyone ever told you of turtles hitting windshields before?

JG: Like not until this happened to me, and then I started looking up other stories it. I did not ever expect for this kind of stuff to happen.

CO: So you were fairly surprised I guess when you did have this happen to you?

JG: Definitely. Like definitely not expecting for like my second day at work for this to happen.

CO: You had to call work and tell them what? What did you say?

JG: I said exactly what happened. And I just said hey, I'll be a bit late.

CO: And this is a new employer. You just started this job.

JG: Yeah.

CO: Did they believe you?

JG: Yeah. Like surprisingly, because they were like you can't really make something like that up. So they’re just like just send us the pictures later, and we'll talk about it then.

CO: But your car, was it just the windshield, or was there any more damage done to your vehicle?

JG: Yeah the hood got messed up, and the wiper system and stuff like that — so the fluid and all that sort of stuff. And then also the cowl got messed up. So it all has to be replaced.

CO: And so did you save the turtle shell? did you keep it?

JG: No, the auto place we took it to buried the turtle.

CO: Ok. Well you know, we did a little check. one of our listeners here in Canada suspected that we would be talking to you when he saw the story. So this guy put together a list of similar encounters that he has discovered. He said there was a turtle who went through the windshield of a Florida woman's car. It hit the passenger seat, and then landed on her dashboard.

JG: Oh wow.

CO: And then another that lodged itself into the driver's face.

JG: Oooo!

CO: You got off easy!

JG: Yeah.

CO: And there was another in North Carolina, it took out a man's headlight, the grill, and the bumper. And when he stopped the car, the turtle was still alive and tried to bite him.

JG: Jeez!

CO: So I'd say you got off pretty good.

JG: Yeah, I’m definitely glad it didn't hit more over to my side because that would have been a big problem.

CO: Well anyways, John, I'm glad you're okay. And I'm sorry for the turtle. I'm glad they gave it a good burial. And so look out for flying anything out there — including turtles.

JG: Yeah, I will definitely do that.

CO: Thanks John.

JG: Thank you.

JD: John Gardner’s windshield was struck by a turtle last week. We reached him in Conway, South Carolina.

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Elizabeth May

JD: From now on, the Federal Green Party caucus — will be an actual caucus. After last night's by-election win in BC's Nanaimo-Ladysmith riding, the Green Party will go from having a single member in the House of Commons — to having two. Paul Manly's win gives new momentum to the party less than 6 months before the next federal election. Today in Ottawa, Green Party leader Elizabeth May took the opportunity to slam the environmental policies of the other federal parties. Here is part of her press conference.

SOUNDCLIP

ELIZABETH MAY: I think that the election in and Nanaimo-Ladysmith had other issues on people's minds. They're very concerned about affordable housing as well. They're concerned about our health care system. But yes, door-to-door I heard a lot of voters in Nanaimo-Ladysmith who are very concerned about climate change, and cannot understand how the NDP can claim to be concerned about climate change and support LNG, and fracking, and all the greenhouse gas emissions from that. They can't understand how. Justin Trudeau thinks he can be a climate leader while buying a pipeline and trying to force it through to the BC coast. And the Conservatives have no credibility on climate at all. So yes, we do represent a better choice, and we want to have a conversation with the others so they can educate themselves. And we need to as a country, as a government, as a society we need to come up with real solutions. I go to climate rallies of children. They're not old enough to vote, but they speak more responsibly about the climate crisis than the so-called leaders here.

REPORTER: We hear from the NDP sometimes that the Greens are a one-issue party. Great on climate change, but there’s no policy there other stuff. What would your response be?

EM: Well, that is a propaganda line from the NDP. It's tired, and it's old, and it's not true. If you look at our history, we were the first party in Canada to call for equal marriage. We were the first party in Canada to call for legalizing cannabis. We were the first party in Canada called for pharmacare. We were the first party in Canada to call for banning asbestos — when we couldn't get the NDP to join us because of the unions in Quebec. Our policies on social justice are stronger than the policies of the New Democrats. But we also recognize that no one party has all the best answers, and we'll get better answers when we work together.

JD: Green Party Leader Elizabeth May speaking to reporters today in Ottawa.

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Misquotes

JD: Politicians don't like to be misquoted. But that isn't stopping them from putting words in other people's mouths. That's what the condensed book company Blinkist concluded -- after its own analysis. The company reviewed 25 years of parliamentary and congressional debates in Canada, the US and the UK, and found the fact-checking of our elected officials wanting. The most frequently misattributed line in Canada's halls of power is, quote, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." Which sounds pretty smart, especially when Liberal, Conservative and NDP politicians say they're quoting Albert Einstein. The only problem is that Mr Einstein never said anything of the kind, and saying he did over and over doesn't change that fact. Second on the list of misquotes is, "let them eat cake." Indignant Canadian politicians have been lining up to compare their opponents unfavourably to the callousness of Marie Antoinette. But that line was first used when the future French queen was just a little princess. Ghandi gets a lot of undue credit. The phrases, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", and "be the change you wish to see" both make the top ten list. But neither was uttered by the great pacifist. But maybe these quotes are just too good to let go. And doesn't the cruel reality of "the death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic," sound even more cruel when Canadian MP's claim that it's a quote from Joseph Stalin?

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May 07, 2019 transcript

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