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The AIH Transcript for May 3, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden, sitting in for Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight...

CO: Legion errors. The president of the Royal Canadian Legion promises to take action after a North Alberta branch plays host to the far-right group the Soldiers of Odin.

CH: Helpless. When a house caught fire in a Northwestern Ontario First Nation with a family inside all anyone could do was watch because the community has no proper firefighting equipment.

CO: Un-infectious enthusiasm. An amazing new study shows that antiretroviral drugs aren't just suppressing HIV -- they're completely stopping its transmission between partners.

CH: A withering assessment. Harvests have been so bad in North Korea that 10 million people don't have enough food -- and the UN says help is needed immediately.

CO: Apropos of Norton. That's Ed Norton, who was in "Fight Club" with Brad Pitt, who played Tyler Durden, but who was really -- well actually this is taking too long -- so just read a college student's essay on the movie because it's just one sentence long.

CH: And pulling the rugby out from under them. Yesterday, high school students in Nova Scotia were told they could no longer play their beloved game -- but as should have been expected they teamed up to tackle the problem. As It Happens. The Friday Edition. Radio that knows they were prepared to go out kicking and scrumming.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Soldiers of Odin: Legion

Soldiers of Odin: Legion

Guest: Thomas Irvine

CH: Canada's Anti-Hate network calls them a right-wing hate group. Canada's border security agency has warned about their members' violence. But last month, the Soldiers of Odin were welcomed by the Royal Canadian Legion in Grand Prairie, Alberta. The branch's president is defending the decision. In fact he told CBC News that half a dozen members of his legion are Soldiers of Odin themselves. That is half a dozen too many for Thomas Irvine. Mr. Irvine is the national president of the Royal Canadian Legion. We reached him earlier today in Montreal.

CO: Mr. Irvine how did you find out that the Soldiers of Odin had been welcomed into the Legion in Grand Prairie?

THOMAS IRVINE: Actually I found out this morning when I got out of bed and turned my computer on -- I got a flurry of emails reporting what had happened out in Grand Prairie. And then I picked up the phone and started calling people at 7:30 this morning.

CO: And what did you tell them? What was your reaction?

TI: My immediate reaction was, what's going on? We had known about this a couple of weeks ago in Ottawa and we had passed the information down through provincial command down to the branch and for whatever reason they were told not to do it -- they decided to do it anyway.

CO: To do what? What had they been told not to do?

TI: To allow the Soldiers of Odin into the branch to hold an event.

CO: What did you learn two weeks ago?

TI: Two weeks ago, we just found out that they were holding the event. So we passed the information on down through our chain of command to say, no this is not proper -- we don't support these kind of groups at any time. And the branch felt -- I am guessing at this -- but I would imagine that the branch felt that they were in the right and decided to hold it anyway.

CO: What did you tell them about your concerns as to why the Soldiers of Odin should not be within the Legion?

TI: That I am aware of that we haven't had that discussion yet but you can guarantee that discussion has been going on all day.

CO: But what did you tell them? Because we know it's on the record for what the Soldiers of Odin are. But what did you tell them? What were the discussions?

TI: Well like I said I have not had been involved in these kind of discussions yet but I would imagine that the discussion goes along the lines of we don't support right-wing extremist groups in any way shape or form. Now we just came out with a policy a month or two months ago on motorcycle outlaw groups -- and we thought that this problem had fixed itself with our new policy but obviously this has reared its ugly head again. And now we're going to have to come up with a policy on these right-wing groups to make sure that the branches in the future don't hold these events nor have any kind of communication with these organizations.

CO: Do you give them any benefit of a doubt? Do you think that they don't know the history of Soldiers of Odin?

TI: I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt right now. I've called for an investigation and soon as I have that information backed -- and will act accordingly. But as it stands right now, I'm giving everybody the benefit of the doubt until I get my report back which would be in a day or two.

CO: Well it doesn't take much research to find out that the Soldiers of Odin are considered to be an anti-Muslim hate group -- and that they originate out of Europe as part of the neo-Nazi movement there, and there is documented that they attract white supremacists, neo-Nazis. We know that Canadian soldiers fought and died to defeat fascism. So what does it say to you that they're back in the Legion?

TI: I was thinking of that today and it doesn't necessarily have to be that long ago. Look at our veterans from Bosnia -- when they were in there they've seen these kind of groups and the way they acted. Our veterans of today have seen that point blank and seen the results of these groups. That's a direct insult to all veterans be it past, present, and future. And I'm going to make sure that we take steps that this doesn't happen again. We will definitely pull out a policy -- that's already in the works as of this morning. A policy will be out within the next couple of weeks because it takes some time to put the thing in place with everybody in the know. And we'll insure that it doesn't happen again.

CO: But again, to not know -- it's very easy to find out that Facebook has banned the Soldiers of Odin from its platforms, that Canadian security officials have warned that members of Soldiers of Odin are not afraid of violence, that the United States has warnings about them -- and here they are...

TI: You have to understand -- and I've gotten this several times today by other people veterans included -- is that these groups play on the public and they may be outlaw groups or they may not be but if they're up to criminal activity they will play on the public. So they would go into a branch like this one and say look we want to raise money for charity, this is a charity group, we're not an extremist group -- they can lie through their teeth all they want, and they make inroads in that area. And all they're doing is raising money for their group. So they bamboozle people into believing that no they're not really as bad as they're making out to be when actually in fact they're lying through their teeth and the branch gets fooled on it. And it's happened before. Not necessarily with a Legion branch but I've seen it and I was told about an incident with a soup kitchen of some kind where they endorsed this group 100 percent until they found out what they were all about. So these groups are making inroads because it's good PR. Whether it is bad PR or good PR -- it's still PR. Half the Canadians never heard of the Soldiers of Odin up until last night. Now everybody knows about them -- so that's a good thing for them, but not for us.

CO: But also when you are able to have your event at the Legion -- the Royal Canadian Legion -- that it gives a veneer of credibility. It gives you the appearance of being quite legitimate, doesn't it?

TI: Correct. Correct. And they play on that. And my job is to educate the Legion branches, not to do that kind of stuff -- to do their investigation. If they're not sure, pick up the phone and call somebody.

CO: But so far the Grand Prairie Legion seems to be quite proud of this association. They point out that numbers of these Soldiers of Odin are also members of the Legion. And so they have this overlap of these communities. So what do you say to them?

TI: I won't say anything right now. I will do it all through my investigation.

CO: What if they don't change their minds?

TI: Well then I have several ways of addressing that issue. And I have powers of our general by-laws to do any number of things to make them see the light. And from what I understand today is that they are seeing a light today.

CO: Mr. Irvine it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

TI: Always a pleasure. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain our side of the story.

CO: You bet.

CH: Thomas Irvine is the national president of the Royal Canadian Legion. We reached him in Montreal earlier today.

[Music]

Lancet: HIV drugs

Guest: Jens Lundgren

CH: For years, health officials have known just how effective antiretroviral drugs are at suppressing HIV. But a ground-breaking study published in the Lancet this week says they're not just effective -- they bring the risk of HIV transmission to zero. The study looked at nearly 1000 male couples across Europe -- and found that when a man was HIV positive and on antiretroviral drugs, the infection was not transmitted to his partner. Researchers say the findings could have big implications for the fight against HIV/AIDS. Jens Lundgren was a co-author of the study, and is a professor of infectious diseases at the University of Copenhagen. We reached him there.

CO: Professor Lundgren what message should this study send to the world about the treatment of HIV/AIDS?

JENS LUNDGREN: It should send the word that if you are HIV positive on effects of anti-HIV treatment you are no longer infectious if you have a sexual relationship with another person. It has taken us 10 years to do this study. We wanted to nail this question once and for all, but that's the underlying message.

CO: The people that you looked at still have HIV infections, right?

JL: So the study was essentially composed of HIV positive people on treatment -- effective treatment -- and their sexual partners -- that they had sex with without a condom. And we in this stage of the study focused exclusively on gay men. And this was done for two reasons. The first reason was that gay sex is the one that we know are the most risky form of sexual activity for transmitting HIV. So if anti-viral treatment was not working as we were hoping then we would have seen it in this study. The second reason we had very little data before this study to actually document what the actual risk was among gay men...

CO: And what you found was that there was zero risk of transmitting HIV to another person -- transmitting the infection to their partner, is that right?

JL: That's right. So essentially those couple had a total of seventy six thousand anal intercourse without a condom. One being positive -- one being negative. And we didn't find anyone who was HIV negative to begin to get infected from his partner.

CO: But in order to do this study you had to have men who were willing to have sex -- unprotected sex -- what risks were there in having these couples take part in the study?

JL: So we didn't encourage people to lose the condom. We engaged more than 80 clinics across Europe and asked do you know anybody in your clinic being HIV positive and have an HIV negative partner -- and where they are not using the condom. And it took a long time to actually identify the couples that eventually got enrolled into the study. There is a lot of goodwill I have to say in this community and that's what the study is reflecting.

CO: We just want to play something that was on the BBC this morning -- a man who is HIV positive and he is on antiretroviral drugs. And he was following your study closely over the years. And here's what he had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: So before my current relationship I was undetectable. And at the time the study was still in the process. So it wasn't big -- it wasn't so well known. I mean I came across people who straightaway were like yep absolutely fine no problem I'm clued up. But I have also come across people that have gone oh well I don't want to risk it. And I'm sitting there going that you don't understand -- there is no risk. That's the joy of the medication.

CO: Okay so he's not going to be able to convince anybody that he is okay to have sex with, so what do you say to that?

JL: But I think that's the whole purpose of doing science. This clip you just played -- actually this plays the uncertainty that was within the field -- and the uncertainty was driven by the fact that there was not conclusive documentation. There was ambiguity. There was maybe it's okay but we really don't know -- and you know those caveats, and what if you have a sexual transmitted infection is that actually affecting how you are having sex and so forth. There was a lot of discussion -- a lot of uncertainty. And how do you deal with uncertainty? You actually do the research.

CO: Given what you have found for people who are HIV positive and who are on antiretroviral drugs, how might this study affect the way they conduct their affairs? How they have their relationships?

JL: It's not an easy life to be HIV positive. But I think this helps to actually destigmatize the disease -- like we would you know be compassionate around any other person who have a lifelong disease and needs our compassion. And HIV positive people deserve that as well of course.

CO: Just finally as you know there are approximately 40 million people around the world who live with HIV, and only about half of them have access -- have the antiretroviral treatments. It's very expensive. So this does depend on being able to afford those drugs, doesn't it?

JL: Well it's true. And you say that antiretroviral treatment is expensive -- actually it's not. It was expensive but the price have dropped tremendously in the last 15 years due to enormous efforts -- the production of generic medication, involvement by -- the Gates Foundation. That doesn't mean that there's still not a resource problem -- in particular in resource constrained countries -- of actually being able to in a very limited health budget to purchase sufficient drugs for everybody. But these results gives a strong impediment to continue to invest in this disease because the opposite that is to say that you don't provide medication to people who actually gets diagnosed is that they will continue to transmit the virus. And as a society you will therefore continue to create more and more HIV positive people. So there is actually a benefit even in resource constrained countries of actually investing to your population to lower transmission.

CO: Professor Lundgren thank you very much.

JL: Thank you. Bye bye.

CH: Jens Lundgren is a professor of infectious diseases at the University of Copenhagen. That's where we reached him.

[Music]

Rugby ban reversed

Guest: Claire Avery

CH: Yesterday, Nova Scotia rugby players, parents, and coaches were knocked down by news that the province's School Athletic Federation had banned all high school rugby -- immediately. The federation's executive director said the decision was made because of the high number of player injuries. Just a day earlier a player was hurt during a school rugby game in Cape Breton and had to be airlifted to Halifax for treatment. But late today the province's education minister overturned the school rugby ban. And just like that, players are back on the pitch. Claire Avery is a Grade 12 student at Charles P. Allen High -- and is on her school rugby team. We reached her in Hammonds Plains, Nova Scotia.

CO: Claire, wow! What a difference a day makes. We were just getting ready to interview you about rugby being cancelled. Now we're going to talk to you about rugby not being cancelled.

CLAIRE AVERY: I know it's such a turnaround. Like I'm kind of still in the process of processing what just happened.

CO: What do you think did just happen?

CA: Honestly I think the rugby community in Nova Scotia came so close together just like how we do in rugby that they couldn't say no. We just kept pushing and we were just basically saying we weren't going to stop until you said we're playing again.

CO: People have done that before to no avail. So what do you think was your secret?

CA: Our secret was definitely just how much all of us wanted to play. It's such a female dominant sport in Nova Scotia. Like yes we do have males playing it, but you see it in universities for females. And we just all love the sport so much. And this is most of our main sports. We've all played other sports but this is the one where we find -- it's not just a sport to us...this is our family. These are the people who we see every day. All of us as teenagers, they couldn't say no.

CO: But it is a rough and tumble game, isn't it. So what is it about rugby that you like so much?

CA: We love the sport -- we play because of the sport. It is the only contact sport NSSAF has for females which really sucks. But we love the sport not only because of the actual hitting of people -- scoring the tries, kicking the conversions. We like it because of how close we are. In a lot of female sports you have those people who are considered 'mean girls' -- in this sport, everyone is your family. These girls are your sisters -- who you are next to. Man...I don't even have the words to describe what rugby means to these girls because it means so many different things to so many different people.

CO: What were you feeling yesterday when you were told that it was cancelled?

CA: I was an absolute awe. I'm the captain of my rugby team and everyone was asking me what was going on. And I just did not have an answer because I didn't know myself. I was so sure rugby was one of those sports that would continue for years and the fact that they were just like, nope -- (the) season is over...rugby is done. We were speechless. It was a tragedy for Nova Scotia.

CO: But the reason why they cancelled it is because of statistics they got that they were alarmed by, right? I mean the concussions and injuries for rugby are considerably higher than they are for the other sports they looked at: hockey, football, and soccer. 149 concussions in rugby versus 33 in hockey and only 26 in soccer -- 32 in football. I mean do you understand why they were concerned with those kind of statistics?

CA: I totally get it. But they're also looking at it the wrong way. How many players are playing this sport? How many games are being played? Rugby is a very transparent sport when it comes to injuries. We really like to tell what's going on. If someone doesn't feel safe, if someone's hurting in any way – we take them off. We make sure they're okay. We then put in a report. We want to make sure that everything is tracked and I actually feel that rugby is one of the safer sports for us because we have so many rules about it.

CO: But again other concerns, right? Because in Prince Edward Island last year a high school student died after suffering a head injury while playing rugby. And this decision to end the season came just a day after an international student who plays for Sydney Academy was injured during a game in Cape Breton. So they're working with those kinds of facts, right. I mean, again, what can be done to make this perhaps -- to have safer and have fewer injuries?

CA: Our game of rugby is slowly becoming safer and safer with new rules coming into play like we just put in a new rule about a year ago about how high our tackle can be. And if it's like around your shoulders, you're automatically called. But I also do feel like there is a risk to every sport you play. But when you have a sport that so many people love and we know the risks behind it you can't just take that away from us. You know? There are risks to every sport and there are tragedies that happen. And those two things were tragedies. But they are very rare.

CO: I know that it was particularly affecting you because you love rugby but you're headed to St. Thomas University in New Brunswick on a rugby scholarship. So if this had been the last season for rugby at the high school level what would that have meant to you?

CA: This is the game that I love so I really wanted to be able to play my last game and know it was my last game of high school and have my team around me and really just cherishing that moment. But I didn't get it because they had canceled the sport. But now that it's back on we're really hoping -- we don't know everything yet -- but we're really hoping that we can finish off this season and I will get that moment along with the other seniors.

CO: I guess you're also thinking that yesterday that if you were going to leave and that they weren't going to be any young women like yourself following in your cleats.

CA: Exactly. It would have been hard for me just because I want to come back to Nova Scotia when I have children and stuff. And I want them to be able to play rugby. I want them to see what it's like. This is a very different sport because we have a lot of older players so there's a lot of 16-17 year olds just starting. And there are so many girls who can't fit in with certain sports because of their size -- because of who they are -- and rugby is such an inclusive sport. There's always a place for everyone on that field. I would have been very heartbroken if it would have stayed like that there was no rugby in Nova Scotia at high school level.

CO: Well Claire I wish you best for the rest of your season and a great success when you follow on to St. Thomas University. Thank you.

CA: Thank you so much.

CH: Claire Avery is a rugby player and a Grade 12 student in Hammonds Plains, Nova Scotia.

[Music]

The first rule of Fight Club

CH: You know the old story about the philosophy exam. The final exam question is: "Why?" And one student gets an A-plus for answering "Why not?" Or "Because." Depending I guess on whether the student is a stoic or a rationalist. Either way that probably-apocryphal story works because it's not just a cute, lazy, answer to an essay question. It also shows the student grasps the material -- or the immaterial. Which leads me to the story of Allison Garrett, a student at an unidentified college in the U.S. Now her assignment was to write a review of a movie that she'd seen. And she had a brilliant epiphany about a way to give the film review version of "why not" or "because." A way that fulfilled the terms of the assignment and demonstrated a comprehensive understanding of the movie itself. As she tweeted, "The opportunity arose, and I took my chances." Here is her essay in its entirety. Quote, "The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club." For clarity, the essay is entitled "Fight Club." And she also tweeted her teacher's comments. Quote, "I struggled over this grade for a long time. I finally decided you get a grade for a laugh and for how relevant your review is to this particular movie." That grade was 100 percent. And fair enough because it is about Fight Club -- but it's also like Fight Club: punchy.

[Music]

Part 2: First Nation house fire

First Nation house fire

Guests: Sam McKay

CH: A small community in Northwestern Ontario is facing the loss of an entire family in a house fire. A woman and four children died in the blaze yesterday morning in Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug -- which is also known as Big Trout First Nation or K-I. People in the community weren't able to fight the fire because they lack firefighting equipment including a working fire truck. Sam McKay is a spokesperson for the band. We reached him in Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug.

CO: Mr. McKay I suspected everyone in your community knows the victims of this fire. How are people coping?

SAM MCKAY: It's very difficult time right now. It's very devastating for the families affected directly. And of course it has an impact on the rest of the community because everybody knows everybody and we're all connected one way or another -- either friends or what not. And everybody knows everybody in this community.

CO: And can you tell us a bit about the woman and the children who died.

SM: She was a long-time foster parent and she had two biological children of her own. Her youngest biological child was 6-years-old. And the other three -- her youngest daughter was six, and the other one was seven, and the other one was nine, and the other one was twelve.

CO: And so some of the kids were her foster children?

SM: Three of them were her foster children -- or were adopted children. And I'm not too keen on differentiating on that but there is a reason why I do that because I get asked how is the community impacted? And it's not just the immediate family. There are other families that are directly impacted -- local families that the children are biological members of. You have to understand in our culture in here in the First Nation when we do adoption -- our customary adoption -- the person that adopt a child takes that child as their own and raises them as their own which is what this mother did with these three children. They know who their biological families are -- they know what their relations are and that relationship has allowed to blossom as they grow up.

CO: And when children are lost in anything like this -- they are all of our kids, right? All of our kids are part of our charges. Do you know anything about the fire itself and why they were not able to escape?

SM: I don't know any of the details on what happened. But just as a general knowledge where we are -- we're still in the late stages of winter where we still have ice. We still have snow. We still have very cold nights and some cold days. And everybody depends on a woodstove for heat. Heat source for the homes. And I'm not saying that's what caused it but I'm just saying that's the environment we live in here in K-I.

CO: But generally in houses there's an open flame for heat.

SM: Yeah.

CO: Does your First Nation have any firefighting equipment right now?

SM: We have a truck but it's not operational. I'm not sure what the situation is but it's not operational. We haven't used it for a number of years. And we did get our leadership -- and the O & M department managed to secure funding to build a fire hall a couple of years ago and it was completed last year. And well it's done but it's not operational yet. And as far as having firefighting equipment, we don't have any. And we don't have someone to run the fire department and we don't have a volunteer department. We're not resourced in any way in that regard.

CO: Why not?

SM: We just don't have the resources to do it. We don't have the funding to operate a fire department per say. And it's from my own awareness and observation having been involved in various capacities for the community and also having been on council previously. It's not even in the radar for both levels of government to try and address the lack of fire services in the First Nations in the north.

CO: So whose responsibility do you believe it is to ensure that your community has the firefighting equipment?

SM: Well the federal government is ultimately responsible for all First Nations -- whether they have passed that responsibility onto the provincial governments they are still ultimately responsible.

CO: So this ball has been passed back and forth for some time then?

SM: And this is not the first time this has happened and we all know about the fire that happened in Pikangikum come several years ago. And also this has happened in Wunnumin Lake where lives were lost. And this is not something new -- and the government needs to start looking into what the First Nations on how this can be prevented because a lot of times because of housing condition, overcrowded, and lack of proper heat source and all these things related -- that's all related to what the government should be doing for the First Nations and they're not doing it.

CO: You just mentioned Pikangikum -- the horrible fire, nine people killed including a baby and two little kids. And this whole -- again -- inadequate firefighting equipment, and this whole discussion came out at that time too -- we covered that story. I am just trying to understand where it falls down, where does this discussion that's so necessary -- how does it not ever yield the results that you need?

SM: As far as I'm concerned personally to be perfectly honest I don't think both levels of government are interested in looking at this issue. That's the bottom line. It's not a priority for them. It's not even on their radar.

CO: Do you think this fire might put it on their radar?

SM: Well I hope something comes out of it.

CO: Mr. McKay I do too. And we are so sorry for the loss of your community and it's just devastating to get this news. I appreciate that you'd speak with me. Thank you.

SM: You're welcome.

CH: Sam McKay is a spokesperson for the Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug First Nation. That's where we reached him.

[Music]

Caster Semenya

CH: A recent court ruling may stop Caster Semenya from competing in the women's 800 metre event. But it certainly hasn't slowed her down yet. Today, the South African runner set a course record at a Diamond League meet in Doha. The wind comes days after the Court of Arbitration for Sport upheld rules that would force Ms. Semenya who has naturally elevated testosterone levels to take medication to lower those levels if she wants to compete in the women's category. Caster Semenya spoke to the BBC about that decision and about today's race.

SOUNDCLIP

CASTER SEMENYA: I think that's the easiest race I've ever run in my life. Being able to produce such a great performance in a first race -- I think it is fantastic. I always say you know for me negativity is nothing. So as long as it doesn't kill me, it makes me strong. Like I say so I'm here to perform, I'm here to show people that anything is possible if you believe. It doesn't matter how dark it is. But in Africa we walk in the dark. So that's how we are. You know we born great. We are here to deliver. Our people out here. We deliver no matter what circumstances.

REPORTER: Tell me one thing -- you're the world champion of 800 metres. What are you going to do now in order for you to compete here in Doha to defend your title -- you know what needs to happen -- what are you going to do?

CASTER SEMENYA: At the moment we'll say that's their problem not mine. At the end of the day I have a goal. The goal that I want to fulfill -- the goals that I want to achieve. So at the moment what I will say is I'm going to keep on doing what I do best which is running.

REPORTER: Will I see you here in Doha?

CASTER SEMENYA: Yeah of course, I'll be here.

REPORTER: What will I see you running? Are you going to be running 8 (hundred), you are going to run 5 (hundred) -- what are you going to do?

CASTER SEMENYA: It doesn't matter at the moment. With a situation like this you can never you know tell the future. But the only thing that you know is that you'll be running.

REPORTER: Does it hurt you -- what's happened this week with the IAAF?

CASTER SEMENYA: No no -- hasn't hurt me a lot. At the end of the day we always say, confuse the enemy. If they're still celebrating -- you keep doing what you do best. I'm a hard worker. I'll be working. They'll be relaxed. So that's the only thing I can say.

REPORTER: You posted some messages on social media this week and people were wondering and have been asking me is Caster going to retire? Is Caster going to keep going? What's the situation?

CASTER SEMENYA: How the hell am I going to retire when I'm 28? I'm still a young soul man. I'm still young. I still feel young. I still feel energy. I still have 10 years or more in athletics. So it doesn't matter how I'm going to do it. What matters is I will still be here.

CH: That's track star Caster Semenya speaking to a BBC reporter today after winning gold in the women's 800-metre race at the Diamond League meet in Doha. She had a winning time of just under 1 minute and 55 seconds.

[Music]

North Korea food shortage

Guest: Mario Zappacosta

CH: 10 million people in North Korea are suffering from severe food shortages. That is 40 percent of the country's population. The UN's top food agency has made that announcement today. They say North Korea has had its worst harvests in a decade and that help is urgently needed. Mario Zappacosta is the senior economist at the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization. He co-led a mission to North Korea last month. We reached Mario Zappacosta in Rome.

CO: Mr. Zappacosta what did you see in North Korea on your trip that worried you the most?

MARIO ZAPPACOSTA: The fact that we estimated that the crop production -- the main food items -- it's quite low compared to the needs of the country. So a big deficit is expected to take place in the coming months.

CO: But food production was already very low as far as we knew in North Korea. So how worrisome is this newest report?

MZ: So we are talking about maybe the lowest production in the last 10 years. And then it was calculated also with the spectacular high post-harvest losses. So due to inefficient way to process the crops after the harvest, the losses this year though have been estimated by my team something like a quarter of the total production. So there was a big waste of food. And this affected obviously -- dramatically -- the real availability of food in the country.

CO: And I understand from your report that another problem that faced North Korea as many other places is that climate change, extreme weather, also had a great effect on their ability to produce food.

MZ: Exactly. This year they hit an unbelievable series of weather shocks. They started in August last year with erratic rain, very low amount. And then it was followed by record temperature that had a negative impact on the crops. And then rain started -- so they had even floods. So the main season of crops that were harvested in October and November were really affected by these three weather shocks.

CO: So what are people eating in North Korea? What do they have for food?

MZ: Well the majority of the people they had a very simple diet. It is basically rice and a little bit of maize. In some areas especially in the north, they eat potato -- and sometimes just potatoes for days and months. And then they include in the diet very little vegetables. But what is really shocking is that this is a very unbalanced diet. So they have almost no intake of proteins -- so very little quantities of eggs, meat. It's almost zero.

CO: So what effect is this having on their health -- especially the children?

MZ: Obviously for the children this is not nice. We have visited several nursery in the country where the teachers they keep track of the measures of the height and the weight of the kids -- and stunting is sometimes very high.

CO: We know that there are these international sanctions placed on North Korea. The objective is to pressure Kim Jong-un to abandon nuclear weapons. And they're quite severe restrictions on what can be provided to North Korea. Is that playing a role in the food shortages?

MZ: We believe that the sanctions in a direct or indirect way affected also the crop production -- the decline in the crop production. For example everything that is metal is forbidden to be imported. So in these type of sanctions things like water pumps, spare parts, tractors, machinery -- they have problem to import. So it has a direct impact on the production because most of the work is done by hand. And also there is a constrain on the import of fuel. So this makes that the country has to decide the limited availability of fuel -- how to allocate this quantity. So sometimes agriculture is penalized. We saw sometimes tractors that were not working. The crops remain in the field for sometimes couple of weeks before they can be transported to the storage. And during these period they are exposed to weather, to pest, rats, and other types of animals so it contributes to increase the post-harvest losses.

CO: It is the perfect storm, isn't it? I mean they're being affected at every turn.

MZ: Well this year we have the feeling that was quite bad and that's why they request that the FAO UN need to visit the country. So we have the feeling that the country knew that the situation was very bad and they started reducing the ratios so very early in order to be able in case they don't get any food aid, they can stretch the production in terms of consumption for a longer period.

CO: Just finally, what message do you want to get out to the world with this report? What are international obligations in your view to North Korea at this point given that they're close to a famine?

MZ: I think the obligation of the international community is to act quickly because well we are a technical institution I feel -- we don't want to enter into nuclear discussion, sanctions, and so forth. But we think about young children, pregnant women, lactating women -- so if the international community does not act I would say immediately those people will suffer in the coming months. So I think it's important to let's say to disjoint the two discussions: the humanitarian emergency and the political issue and impact.

CO: We will leave it there. It sounds like a very desperate situation. I'm glad you had that access. Mr. Zappacosta thank you for speaking with us tonight.

MZ: Thank you. Goodnight.

CH: Mario Zappacosta is the senior economist at the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization. He co-led a mission to North Korea last month. We reached him in Rome.

[Music]

Kaetlyn Osmond

CH: She's all of 23 years old but Kaetlyn Osmond says she's ready to retire. And when you look at the Canadian figure skater's resumé -- you'll agree. She's earned it. Ms. Osmond has won three Olympic medals -- two at the World Championships, not to mention three national titles. This morning, Kaetlyn Osmond explained her decision to St. John's Morning Show host Krissy Holmes.

SOUNDCLIP

KAETLYN OSMOND: At the Olympics I was 22-years-old, and I was the fifth oldest in the competition. And it is getting younger -- it seems to me anyways. But usually the shelf life for a skater is two or three Olympics. I started my first Olympics when I was only 18. So that helped me be able to go to a second one for sure. But it's just such a demanding sport and it requires a lot from your body and your mind that it can shorten the lifespan of a skater I guess.

KRISSY HOLMES: You know I think when most people think about you they see the smile and grace -- but behind all that, I mean you were a fierce competitor -- you have to be. How has competition shaped your life?

KAETLYN OSMOND: Competition is all I've ever known. I think my first competition I was only five years old. And up until the 2018 World Championships, competitions were all I actually did and that's what I knew. A lot of people see me as this happy-go-lucky skater which means that I did my job right.

KRISSY HOLMES: Are you different on the ice or off the ice?

KAETLYN OSMOND: I'm actually very shy off the ice to meet new people. I am very quiet. But on the ice, it's very different. I have to hold a confidence and an attitude that makes me feel more competent. So I do adopt I think a completely different personality on the ice compared to what I was.

CH: That was CBC St. John's host Krissy Holmes speaking with Canadian figure skater Kaetlyn Osmond -- who's just announced her retirement.

[Music]

Scott Moe

CH: In a move that is not appealing to the federal government, Scott Moe will be appealing to the Supreme Court of Canada. Saskatchewan's Premier is not thrilled with an appeal court ruling today that the carbon tax is constitutionally sound, and that the federal government is within its right to impose it on the province. He says his province has its own plan -- Prairie Resilience, which does not include a carbon tax. And that an attempt by the feds to intervene in Saskatchewan's affairs was an unconstitutional imposition. Premier Moe did take some comfort in the fact that two judges seemed to agree with him on that. But in the end, three other appeal judges ruled in favour of the federal government. Here's what Premier Scott Moe said to reporters today after the decision came out.

SOUNDCLIP

SCOTT MOE: Obviously I'm disappointed with today's ruling. But it is only one step in the battle against the Trudeau carbon tax. We will be closely reviewing today's ruling and it will be appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada. I note that today's ruling was a 3-2 split decision -- with 2 judges providing a detailed dissenting opinion that the carbon tax is in fact unconstitutional. So there are strong grounds for an appeal. Over the past year we have seen three provincial elections where the carbon tax has been the ballot question. In every case, the parties supporting the Trudeau carbon tax has lost. I expect it will be a ballot question in the upcoming federal election. So my message today is this -- our fight will continue on behalf of the vast majority of Saskatchewan people who oppose the ineffective-job killing Trudeau carbon tax. As I said on the day that we launch this court challenge, provinces are not subsidiaries to the federal government. Saskatchewan has the authority to implement our Prairie Resilience plan to fight climate change, to reduce emissions, and to do it without a carbon tax. Unfortunately, this court did not agree. But as I said today's ruling is just one step in the battle.

CH: Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe speaking to reporters following an appeals court decision in his province ruling the federal carbon tax is not unconstitutional.

[Music]

Student walk out

CH: This morning thousands of Alberta high school students walked out of class. They were protesting the new provincial government's plans to overturn a law that deals with gay straight alliances. The current law prevents schools from telling parents when their child joins a gay-straight alliance. And many students say reversing that rule could put young people in danger. Rafiya Abid is in Grade 12 at Harry Ainlay School in Edmonton. She joined more than 100 of her classmates in the protest.

SOUNDCLIP

RAFIYA ABID: I feel like this is an important issue for high school students and university students and just students in general to stand up to because I think with Jason Kenney and the platform that he has with imposing things like students have to be forced to come out to their parents things like that -- there are important things that students should be able to have a voice, an opinion on. And walking out and expressing that opinion and showing that we're not going to stand up for it -- we're not saying that it's okay is an important issue for students to come out and raise awareness for. I can understand why people might think we're naive and dumb to think that this is something that we shouldn't be doing but this is a way for us to make sure that our voices are heard. It's not just about the economy -- it's about our lives and what's at stake here. Even though I'm not a member of the LGBT community in my school I think it's important for me as an ally to stand up for them because they don't necessarily have that kind of voice. And by opposing these laws -- these policies of not being able to have GSA's, to not be able to have a safe space where they can express their identities without being outed or having the fear that, these safe spaces are created for that reason for them to be safe and have their communities to rely on. And taking that away from them is just I feel like they're imposing on their rights and freedom.

[Students chanting]

CH: Grade 12 student Rafiya Abid was one of thousands of Alberta high school students who walked out of class today. They were protesting the United Conservative Party's plans to overturn a law dealing with gay-straight alliances in schools.

[Music]

Part 3: This Toronto woman won a sleepover at the Louvre in Paris

India cyclone

Guest: Blesson Samuel

CH: Heavy rains and high winds ravaged India's eastern coast today as Cyclone Fani made landfall. Indian officials have reported at least eight deaths in the worst cyclone to hit the country in 20 years. The Category 5 storm did the most damage in the state of Odisha where a million people were evacuated. Blesson Samuel is the senior manager of emergency relief for World Vision India. We reached him in Bhubaneswar, Odessa.

CO: Mr. Samuel we have seen videos of buses and cars pushed down streets, cranes falling over. What are the conditions like right now for people?

BLESSON SAMUEL: We had this cyclone landfall this morning at 8 a.m. The wind velocity was very high touching up to 200 kilometre per hour. We saw trees being uprooted, houses being blown away, we saw standing crops being damaged, we saw debris flying all over the place. The high velocity wind has not spared you know the livelihoods of people, the houses, the infrastructure which has got very badly badly damaged.

CO: And so the infrastructure badly damaged. What we have seen in the past when cyclones of this nature have hit India there have been many people killed. And if you remember 20 years ago 10,000 people were killed. What are the authorities doing this time that has helped to spare so many lives?

BLESSON SAMUEL: They were very well prepared. We've learned our lessons. The early warning system is in place -- the government has taken precautionary measures much before a new cyclone gets hit for that matter. So they've created cyclone shelters where people could evacuate safely. And the government coordination between the state and the district level is very good. So then there is an early warning message. The whole government machinery is mobilized to ensure that all the people who are living in these low cost areas are moved to safe areas, to the cyclone shelters or safe buildings -- in that way we could reduce the number of deaths to a single digit. So in this current cyclone that has hit today we are yet to know the number of deaths. But the local media say it's around four to six.

CO: Just to stop you for a second because it's hard to hear you. I am going to repeat this so what you know at this point is that the death count -- though it may rise -- but it seems to be in the single digits -- it's about three or four people. Though there were a lot of things hit, right? The railway station roof was caved in, all these trees and poles, people's houses which are made of tarps and bamboo in some cases very poor people live in this region. Do you fear that more people have perished in this cyclone that you don't know about?

BLESSON SAMUEL: Maybe not because most of the poor people have been moved to safer places by the government. So people who were not willing and were staying back were forced to move to say for a shelter or to strong buildings. But the fact remains that the cyclone winds were quite high -- it would have damaged the semi-permanent houses. Most of the houses in the coastal areas belong to poor fishermen or people whose hand holding is not much high and their houses would be semi-permanent in nature and the roofs would have been blown away by the wind -- you know their livelihood -- those who would have got damaged. So for them to restart all over what again is a challenging task ahead. But nevertheless I think because the government has done this mass evacuation beforehand a lot of life has been saved because of the very preparedness by the government. There is no doubt that it is a need of massive relief program in this area across all the coastal districts because people have to now start from scratch.

CO: So because of the efforts of India's National Disaster Management Authority which is what it's called we can perhaps hope that very few lives were lost. But you said there is a lot of destruction of the infrastructure and we can see from film that's been sent that the farmers fields are swamped -- that things are underwater. How difficult is it going to be to rebuild?

BLESSON SAMUEL: Now this is quite challenging because you know most of these are marginal farmers or small time fishermen right. So for them to rebuild what they have lost out or for them to restore back to normalcy -- to get their houses back, to get their livelihoods back -- it is quite a challenging task. So they would require support from the government and from humanitarian agencies who are based here to help them out and restore their traditional livelihoods and house.

CO: In the short term, what do they need? If they're in emergency shelters, do you have latrines? Do you have fresh water? Do you have food to support them?

BLESSON SAMUEL: So now that they are based in the government's cyclone shelter their basic needs has to be backed, right. So there is needs for food, wash interventions is required, and then over a period of short to medium term livelihood and shelter intervention are must for them to restore.

CO: All right we will let you get back to work. Mr. Samuel I appreciate that you took time to speak with us. Thank you.

BLESSON SAMUEL: Thank you so much.

CH: Blesson Samuel is the senior manager of emergency relief for World Vision India. We reached him in Bhubaneswar, in the state of Odisha.

[Music]

Rick Desautel

CH: It's been six decades since the Canadian government declared the Sinixt First Nation extinct. But this week, a Sinixt man says he proved once again it's not gone. Back in 2010 Rick Desautel travelled from Washington State to B.C. where he shot an elk. Mr. Desautel who is an American resident was charged as a non-resident and for hunting without a license. But he challenged those charges -- and this week the B.C. Court of Appeal upheld the decision in his favour. For Mr. Desautel the victory proves the Sinixt are a people with rights in Canada even though most of them are now in the U.S. The CBC spoke with Rick Desautel after his victory.

SOUNDCLIP

RICK DESAUTEL: Inside of me, I'm jumping with joy. The recognition is for my ancestors that are buried up there. The history of my history to protect it, to watch over, to look after it -- another step towards recognition and unvisibility -- unextinction.

CH: As I mentioned this is not the first time Rick Desautel has taken his fight for the Sinixt First Nation to court. Back in 2016 Carol spoke with his lawyer Mark Underhill about the case.

SOUNDCLIP

CO: I understand that that Rick Desautel has actually been trying to get charged with hunting offences in order to get this into court, is that right?

MARK UNDERHILL: That's right. I mean the Sinixt people including Mr. Desautel have long wanted to have their story told -- and most fundamentally, to get recognition for who they are. We have an expert by the name of Dr. Andrew -- a well-known genealogist in First Nations circles and she has done remarkable work to go back to the old mission records and has traced the family trees of a number of Sinixt families back into Canada including of course Rick's own family. And it's great work because all these records are in Latin and she's had to piece it all together. And it is I think an incredible piece of work.

CO: So what's at stake?

MARK UNDERHILL: Well what's at stake narrowly right now is their ability and all Sinixt people wherever they live for them to be able to come up and exercise you know a really fundamental cultural practice for them that is hunting in the area where their ancestors hunted for thousands of years. But of course you know the bigger picture is -- it's recognition for people who history has tried very hard to forget. And to be known once again as the Sinixt people it's such a big step.

CH: From our archives Mark Underhill speaking with Carol in 2016. He's the lawyer for Sinixt hunter Rick Desautel whose appeal was just upheld. And he says that proves the existence and inherent rights of the Sinixt First Nation which Ottawa declared extinct decades ago.

[Music]

Cute bunnies

CH: Bunnies are so cute, sometimes you just want to pick one up and snuggling and take it out of its natural habitat -- especially if it looks scared and lonely. But a wildlife rehabilitation centre in Saskatoon is urging you to 'Leave the Hare There.' By which they mean, if you see a bunny rabbit that's mass adorbs -- just leave it alone in nature. According to Jan Shadick of Living Sky Wildlife Rehabilitation there is a very good reason rabbits often look lonely. And it's not because they're loners. What's more taking them out of the wild literally stresses them out. Here's Jan Shadick on "Saskatchewan Weekend."

SOUNDCLIP

JAN SHADICK: Baby bunnies which in Saskatoon area are mostly jack rabbits or snowshoe hares are incredibly cute. And the natural history for them is that everything eats them. And so mom's way of keeping them safe is to do what we call beneficial or benign neglect. And so she sneaks in at dawn and she feeds them and then she goes away and she leaves them all day -- and nature has set them up to not have any kind of fence. And so if you were a fox or a coyote you potentially could walk right by the little bunnies and not even see them if they blend into their environment and they stay really still so nothing notices them. That is they're pretty much one and only defence from being eaten. Unfortunately people have incredibly good eyesight and will very often see these little baby bunnies -- and because they're all by themselves -- they assume that they have been orphaned or abandoned somehow instead of knowing that that is simply their natural history -- that that's mom's way of trying to take care of them. And so they get picked up and brought home. They have a tendency to have a very high stress response. And so sometimes they get simply so stressed out that their digestive system doesn't work very well and they get diarrhea and they die. The other reason and this is kind of a little bit odd for people to think about but they are what we call hindgut fermenters -- so they need this incredibly healthy bacteria in their gut systems. Baby bunnies actually eat their mother's nocturnal feces to be able to get that healthy gut bacteria from their mom. The best that we can do is use a domestic rabbit and try to sort of inoculate their environment with healthy rabbit bacteria.

CH: Jan Shadick is the executive director of Living Sky Wildlife Rehabilitation in Saskatoon. So remember if you see a hare, leave it right there.

[Music]

Louvre sleepover

Guest: Daniela Molinari

CH: It's the stuff of childhood dreams: spending a night in an empty museum surrounded by priceless works of art without a bunch of tourists taking selfies. Well one young Toronto woman recently realized that dream inside a little museum in Paris called the Louvre. Daniela Molinari who's studying at Northumbria University in England won a contest. And this week she had a sleepover with the Mona Lisa and the Venus de Milo, tucked into bed within the museum's famed glass pyramid. We reached Daniela Molinari in Paris.

CO: Daniela I think it's great to wake up in Paris to begin with. But what's it like to wake up in the Louvre?

DANIELA MOLINARI: It's different. I woke up dreaming that there were tourists taking our picture.

CO: Was it true?

DM: No -- thankfully no. But it was lovely. The actual room itself was a very nice set up and the bed was very comfortable and because the day was so full of events and sort of busy -- I fell asleep immediately.

CO: But they set you up in the pyramid that's just outside the Louvre -- or it's kind of the entrance into the Louvre. And it is glass -- it's all glass. Did you have any privacy in there?

DM: Not really. There wasn't a whole lot of privacy in the pyramid but they did say that if we wanted to just spend time we could walk around because the entrance was this VIP sort of area. So we were allowed to walk around those areas if we wanted some privacy.

CO: Just on your own? Like you didn't have an escort.

DM: No no. Yeah just on our own.

CO: I want to find out everything that you got to do. But first of all just tell us how you won this contest which was offered by Airbnb -- you had to write a short essay and you won the prize. What did you write about?

DM: I have to say it was much less than a short essay. It was supposed to be I think 800 characters. I think that's about I don't know 300 words. And I may have written less than that I think. I entered because I saw the ad on Facebook. It took about 10 minutes to write something. And I completely forgot about it until someone emailed me to say that I had gone through the first round but then I did get the phone call -- or not the phone call -- the email. I got the email to say, oh by the way congratulations. It was a very casual email so obviously I texted all my siblings and my parents and everyone was you know, 'are you sure that's not a hoax. Maybe double check.'

CO: And so it was not a hoax. It was for real. And your little short essay got you into the Louvre for the evening. But not just that -- you had a whole itinerary, right? So what did they lay out for you?

DM: They planned four days for us to spend in Paris. Two Airbnb events that we got to choose. And we stayed in a beautiful Airbnb in the heart of Paris. And during the night --after the Louvre experience -- we had dinner with Venus de Milo tomorrow, we had drinks with the Mona Lisa. We had a tour with Sabine de La Rochefoucauld who is the tour guide who does all of the exclusive events so she gave tours to Beyoncé and Jay-Z, and all that. And then we had a concert in the salon of Napoleon III.

CO: So what was your favorite part of the evening?

DM: Definitely sitting in the pop up salon with Sabine and just discussing the Mona Lisa and listening to her speak about it and tell us the history and just being able to discuss it and ask questions and talk about it with her. That was definitely my favorite.

CO: And knowing that that experience was something that very few people have had -- some of them being: Barack Obama, as you mentioned Jay-Z, Beyoncé. And now, you.

DM: That's just luck. It could have been anyone.

CO: Now will you be able to go to the Louvre like with all the other hoi polloi. Has that ruined it for you?

DM: No I don't think so. I think if I ever have the chance to go to the Louvre again it would just enhance the experience. I would still be able to see it from afar and say I saw that up close. You know I had a little chat with the Mona Lisa. I got to talk about it. I got a talk with her you know. Bring her a portrait of a glass of wine or something.

CO: And you tell that to other people in the museum and they wouldn't believe you.

DM: Oh probably not. Unless they remembered me but I doubt it.

CO: Well Daniela I'm happy for you. It sounds like a lot of fun. Thanks for speaking with us.

DM: Yeah. No problem. Thank you.

CH: That was Daniela Molinari, a Canadian student at Northumbria University. She won a competition with Airbnb to sleep over inside the Louvre museum in Paris which is where we reached her.

[Music]

Nicole Brossard

CH: French Canadian poet Nicole Brossard has won just about every honour the country has to offer -- two Governor General's awards, the Poetry Festival Grand Prix, and the Order of Canada, to name just a few. So it's fitting that late last month The Griffin Trust announced Ms. Brossard as the recipient of its lifetime recognition award. Here are Nicole Brossard, Robert Majzels, and Erin Moure taking turns performing one of Nicole Brossard's poems live at a Griffin Poetry Prize event in 2009. The poem is called "Soft Link 3" from her book "Notebook of Roses and Civilization."

SOUNDCLIP

VOICES: It's names of places, cities, climates that haunt. Characters. Clear mornings, a fine rain that falls all day, rare images from elsewhere and America, two natural disasters that make us close ranks amid corpses, it's quiet or violet acts, mortars, ice cubes in glasses at cocktail hour, noise of dishes or a slight stutter that momentarily torments, a slap, kiss, it's names of cities like Venice or Reading, Tongue and Pueblo, names of characters Fabrice Laure or Emma. Words honed over years and novels, words we spoke with halting breath laughing spitting sucking an olive, verbs we add to the pleasure of lips, to success, to sure death. It's words like cheek or knee and still others further than we can see that leave us teetering on the edge of the abyss, to stretch like cats in morning it's words that keep us up till dawn or make us flag down a cab on a weekday night when the city's asleep before midnight and solitude is caught like an abscess in the jaw...

CH: That was a performance of part of the Nicole Brossard poem "Soft Link 3." Ms. Brossard is this year's recipient of The Griffin Poetry Prize lifetime recognition award. And here is Nicole Brossard speaking with Eleanor Wachtel in 1991 -- explaining her love of sports, and sports writing.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: Following the rule can be interesting also if you are playing le jeu de dames -- I don't know what you say that in English...

VOICE 2: Checkers?

VOICE 1: Checkers yes. And also we are being controlled by different inner laws in our body -- even in our social relationship. And it's very interesting when you decide to break these laws or to break the rules and why you keep in mind some other rules which you find can benefit for your way of living. For example in sports, playing it and even watching it -- when I'm looking at sports I'm watching for a body that moves easily, a body which is healthy, a body which is capable of being, or feeling good very often also. It's very interesting I remember there is that proverb: healthy body in a healthy soul -- or a healthy soul in a healthy body. And I've never forgot that proverb because I feel it's very important and I think also it's the kind of fascination sometimes you have for a sports or for people who are practicing them is a kind of also an image that you have of yourself. For example I've always seen myself even though I'm not really a big sportif I see myself as sportif and as an intellectual also. And maybe it's a kind of an attraction for an image also -- part of you which is there and that you have not followed necessarily but it's certainly a part of me and I say sometimes that I could have been a rock and roll singer, hockey player, or a tennis player.

CH: That was Quebec poet Nicole Brossard speaking to Eleanor Wachtel in 1991. Last month, Ms. Brossard won The Griffin Poetry Prize lifetime recognition award.

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May 3, 2019 Episode Transcript

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