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The AIH Transcript for April 17, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight...

CO: The pipes...the pipes are calling. The United Conservative Party prepares to take power in Alberta -- and one winning candidate says his party will keep its promise to pressure Ottawa over pipelines.

JD: An unclear but present danger. The FBI warned that an 18-year-old Florida woman fixated on the Columbine massacre was in Colorado -- hours later she was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

CO: Long shots. There's a measles outbreak in Madagascar -- and a Peace Corps volunteer says the state of the roads makes getting vaccines to villages a serious challenge.

JD: Choking on the bones. The 68-million-year old skeleton of an infant T-Rex goes up on eBay -- and if that sounds weird and wrong, well, paleontologists agree.

CO: Franz with benefits. A court rules that a cache of writing by Franz Kafka in a bank vault belongs to Israel -- after a strange inscrutable legal battle that was positively -- well there must be a word for that.

JD: Yeah -- I don't know it. And the fuss and the road are both winding down. If you drive on San Francisco's steep, extremely crooked Lombard Street, you'll pay a toll -- and a resident hopes that will iron out the traffic kinks. As It Happens. The Wednesday Edition. Radio that imagines they'll turn and turn turn turn and turn a profit.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: San Francisco eyes toll for famously crooked Lombard Street

Alberta Election

Guest: Ric McIver

SOUNDCLIP

[Crowd chanting]

JASON KENNEY: I'm sorry. I've got to correct you. We never should have ended up with the faint hope of one pipeline. It's: "build those pipes."

JD: That was incoming Alberta premier Jason Kenney speaking last night in Calgary, after voters swept his United Conservative Party into power. Mr. Kenney campaigned on a promise to fight the Trudeau government over pipelines and carbon pricing. Today, the Federal Environment Minister responded with a promise to step in when provincial politicians try -- as she put it -- "to make pollution free." Ric McIver was re-elected last night as the United Conservative Party MLA for Calgary-Hays. We reached Mr. McIver in Calgary.

CO: Mr. McIver what makes Jason Kenney so confident that he's going to be able to build pipelines where others have failed?

RIC MCIVER: Well he's going to take a different approach than has been taken in the last four years certainly. The premier-elect Kenny has committed to basically turning up the heat a little bit. The current premier has taken the path of no resistance, but no resistance has also led to no results. Premier Notley has basically been extremely...

CO: Okay before we get into how many people have failed. Why do you think you'll be successful? We should look forward, not back here.

RM: Well I'm looking forward. I'm saying -- but you ask the question, why would he succeed when people haven't succeeded before. And to give context to your question, I think we need to look at why people haven't succeeded in the past -- and part of the reason they haven't succeeded in the past is the current premier has let Justin Trudeau do whatever he wants, sit on his hands, say nice things, and not lift a finger for Alberta.

CO: Giving a wider context -- how about all the years that Mr. Kenney spent in the Conservative government of Stephen Harper where they didn't get any pipelines built to tidewater either?

RM: Well they got about twenty five hundred kilometres -- I can't remember the number -- a lot of kilometres of pipeline built.

CO: But nothing to tidewater -- and that's the key word, isn't it Mr. McIver?

RM: That is one of the key words. It sure is. I couldn't agree with you more. And that's why he has said that he will take a different tact and it will no longer be comfortable for Justin Trudeau...

CO: Back to that Justin Trudeau notwithstanding. Why couldn't the Harper government get a pipeline built to tidewaters? So you are saying that now we're onto the right course -- why couldn't he do it when he was in the government of Stephen Harper?

RM: Actually the Harper government approved Northern Gateway -- which Trudeau killed it, Notley sat in their hands quietly while it happened. So with all due respect your argument that nobody got anything done before just doesn't hold water because in fact they did get something done. And the current two people in charge let it all go away.

CO: Didn't the Trudeau government -- with our money -- buy Trans Mountain pipeline for 4.5 billion dollars, isn't that a contribution they get?

RM: Certainly did. Money was never the problem. The problem was Trudeau didn't have the courage to push the illegal protesters back so that things could get built which caused a lack of confidence in the investors. Had Trudeau been able to done his job and pushed back the illegal protesters -- it's legal to protest in this country, but when there's a court order to stay back which there was and he didn't have the courage to push them back he actually hurt investor confidence. And that is the type of thing the new premier -- Kenney -- will not sit back quietly and let Trudeau ignore Alberta's interests.

CO: What's Mr. Kenney going to do about those protesters?

RM: I tell you what he will do -- he'll actually put some pressure on the federal government and Prime Minister Trudeau, and hopefully he won't be there much longer but if he is than Alberta won't sit quietly while he ignores Alberta's interests and that's going to be a big difference.

CO: Do you have any concern that the relationship as adversarial as the one between Mr. Kenney and Mr. Trudeau is really going to be that productive?

RM: Well you know what having let's-sit-nice-and-drink-tea-relationship hasn't done a thing for Alberta. So it can't possibly be any worse than the past premier. And I believe it will be better. And not only that -- Jason already has an alliance with four other provinces and one other territory against the carbon tax, and in favour of a national infrastructure including pipelines. He's actually already built more bridges and created more allies to put pressure on the federal government than the previous premier ever thought about doing. So I think Albertans should feel very good -- even on day one -- of the difference in tone and the difference in attitude and the difference of the ability to bring people together as compared to what has happened in the last four years.

CO: But what about your relationship with British Columbia? So you said all the provinces and territories you've got onside -- you're not onside with British Columbia and you need them. If you're going to get a pipeline to tidewater -- or pipelines to tidewater -- at least one has to go that way -- and (in) British Columbia, people are saying even more than before they're going to stand up to Mr. Kenney.

RM: Well actually -- I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you're entirely wrong. There's a majority of British Columbians that actually want a pipeline. And their government certainly hasn't come around to the will of the people yet. But the other thing that you said that may or may not be true and it may end up being settled in the courts is whether British Columbia has the authority to block a pipeline. So I would say to you that you may or may not be correct in what you said about that and the courts may settle that.

CO: So final question about the problems that rocked this campaign -- and some of the candidates, some of the things that were said that were hurtful and hard on people, some candidates had to leave -- some of them apologized. But there were -- as you know --there were homophobic remarks, there were Islamophobic remarks, there were racist remarks -- a lot of that dealt with, but it happened during this campaign. And some of those people are there and some of them have gone. How do you feel about sitting in the caucus knowing that some of those things were said?

RM: Well you know what some of those things were said a long time ago and some of the people with the most egregious remarks are no longer with us. And I think Jason Kenney has shown great leadership -- and making it clear that those are not our party's positions. We're a big tent welcoming party with 160,000 members -- the biggest membership of any political party in Canada. I know that the NDP tried to call a 160,000 people with bad names but I don't think that played very well for them in the election. I don't think it's an actual portrayal of 160,000 people. And I think yesterday at the ballot box Albertans showed with a very-very strong message that they aren't buying into that smear campaign and one that unfortunately you decided to repeat.

CO: Well excuse me sir, it's not a smear campaign. The candidates who are running -- the people who are part of the party made the remark.

RM: No, but you are going down the same path of trying to characterize 160,000 members of a political party with the unfortunate remarks of very few people and that's not fair. And Albertans agreed yesterday that that was not fair.

CO: I'm asking you as an individual how you feel in that big tent knowing that those remarks have been made?

RM: You know what -- I feel great. Our party is a big tent party where everyone is welcome regardless of your background, who you love, what your nationality has been, what religion you follow including no religion at all. And it's a place where all Albertans can meet and make good decisions about the future of our problems. And I believe that's why Albertans recognise that and chose us to be government yesterday.

CO: All right well Mr. McIver congratulations on that victory. And thank you for speaking with us.

RM: You're welcome.

JD: Ric McIver was re-elected last night as the United Conservative Party MLA for Calgary. We reached him in Calgary.

[Music]

Columbine Copycat

Guest: Dave Cullen

JD: In the end, the only life she took was her own. Since Monday night authorities in Colorado have been on high alert searching for an 18-year-old woman they considered armed and extremely dangerous. Sol Pais travelled rather from Florida to Denver, and bought a pump-action shotgun soon after leaving their airport. Police said she was quote, "infatuated with Columbine." Earlier today those out searching for her found her dead of a self-inflicted wound. Dozens of schools were closed because of the threat police believed she posed to students. And this all unfolded just days before the 20th anniversary of the Columbine massacre. Dave Cullen is the author of Columbine. We reached him in New York City.

CO: Dave what do you know about this young woman -- 18-years-old, high school student -- who had all of Colorado on a high alert?

DAVE CULLEN: Well all I know is what I've seen on TV -- that you know she left a trail of postings on various social media including her blog, kind of one of the woe is me I'm depressed and so forth types. And apparently one of her parents said that she was suffering a form mental illness. But you know I can tell you sort of like the wider clacks that I'm familiar with of these kids. She's actually sort of like on the older end of them who idolize these killers. And there's an online group -- they use to call themselves 'The Columbiners' -- that term has become passé, now they call themselves 'The TCC -- for True Crime Community.'

CO: And your sense is is that this young woman, Sol Pais, is a Columbiner or she's part of that group?

DC: Well you know I have no way of knowing whether she adopted that label herself. What I would say is that she's definitely displaying the same characteristics of the same sort of behaviour and then taking it to an extreme.

CO: The authorities have described that she was they believe on a quote "pilgrimage to Columbine," and that she was infatuated with Columbine. What does that mean?

DC: Yes. Yes exactly. I mean those are just appalling terms except they're appallingly true. Right? So this huge fandom out there which people are shocked to hear. You know I'm not surprised because I deal with that on a daily basis. You know for the last ten years every day I wake up almost to these kids attacking me. So I'm sort of 'enemy number one' in their world for writing the book Columbine (and) depicting those two killers who are sort of the founding fathers of their movement as murderers, and also for saying that you know the sort of mythology that the early news reports got wrong that these were sort of like bullied-loner-outcasts-goths and so forth who were standing up for the downtrodden but that's all a bunch of you know nonsense that the media got wrong. They're very much wedded to that idea and that perception, and so they sort of hate me for calling BS on it. So I deal with them all the time. And there is this huge fandom and it's particularly girls -- the last few years even more so than boys -- the bulk that I see are sort of like high school but sort of on the end of high school, and more female. And very frequently the girls -- it's a very adoring and kind of a love romantic interest thing. I didn't see this reported with this particular woman today. But the fandom really rallies much more around Dylan (Klebold). And once you understand that that makes a lot more sense because they are interested in the person in sort of like what they see is 'the troubled boy, the more geeky outsider one, sort of awkward looking' who just needed to be loved more -- you know I could save him if he just had my love, I could you know win him over and bring him back.

CO: But now how unusual is it? Okay, so it's very unusual. But I mean in this case this woman, Sol Pais, took that another step -- a huge step. She got a plane ticket, she flew, she left high school -- seeing she's a senior in Florida, she flew to Denver, she went and bought a rifle and headed to -- well -- presumably to the school. So how many of them actually get that far?

DC: It's very rare. You know some of them do sort of like make their pilgrimages out there. I think it's more of outside of curiosity. But then you know don't disrupt -- they don't necessarily announce it. There have been just a handful of cases that we know of that have like been publicized by the law enforcement authorities. There were a couple Australian girls who came to Columbine. There was a very famous case of three different kids from different continents who met in Halifax, Nova Scotia. One of the young women from outside Chicago who had a plot to attack I believe it was a mall and she was arrested by your authorities when she landed there at the Halifax Airport because they've been monitoring this and sort of knew all about it. So these are the outliers. You know there's a handful of those that we know of out of tens of thousands of kids doing this online.

CO: We do know that there were cases like the student in Santa Fe Texas who shot his teachers and students -- dressed as one of the Columbine gunman. We know Sandy Hook killer had lots of Columbine material on his computer. The Virginia Tech shooter considered them martyrs -- the Columbine gunman. So those who do these other kinds of mass killings draw inspiration from Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, don't they?

DC: Oh yeah. Almost all of them. Yeah. I was shocked when I sort of went back to do an epilogue for my book about three years ago and researched it and almost all of them including the sort of foiled plots, are looking up to them as you know -- I refer to them as the founding fathers, which sounds horrible but that's how these people are viewing them.

CO: Just finally what effect does this have on -- well first of all in Columbine in general because they have so many of these people who come as these kinds of tourists. But in the past couple of days, what impact does that have on those kids?

DC: Well it's rough. I would say not less the kids more the survivors who are the kids who escaped (who) are now nearly 40. But I think it's worse on the teachers -- some of them were still there. And there are four or five Columbine survivor kids who now teach at Columbine who have to deal with this year after year. So it's usually not this bad but they're kind of like waiting for this to happen. So it does make it much more jarring but it's also not completely unexpected because they're used to it by now which is horrible but reality.

CO: Very sad. Dave I appreciate speaking with you thank you.

DC: Thank you.

JD: Dave Cullen is the author of the book Columbine. We reached him in New York City.

[Music]

Lombard Street Toll

Guest: Greg Brundage

JD: Lombard Street in San Francisco has long attracted tourists wanting to drive the "crookedest street in the world." Lately, however, the increasing traffic jams caused by hordes of selfie seekers has people who live on Lombard Street unable to think straight let alone drive crooked. So now city officials have passed a resolution that will force anyone who wants to drive the street to pay a toll of up to ten dollars. We reached Greg Brundage at his home on Lombard Street.

CO: Greg can you describe what you can see outside your window on Lombard Street today?

GREG BRUNDAGE: Okay. I'm in my dining room and I can see right now about seven cars. And I can see on both sides of the street about -- I'm going to say -- 70 people walking.

CO: If you can describe for people what's the attraction.

GB: Well that's a mystery to me too to be honest. Lombard Street is on Russian Hill. And Russian Hill is a nice residential neighbourhood. There isn't a commercial building within four blocks in any direction. The attraction here for me -- I've been here 22 years -- was obviously the views because I can see all across the city, Coit Tower, the bay, and all that kind of stuff. About 55 years ago, the people that lived here decided that they would plant some flowers in the curves on the crooked street so to speak. And so they started planting flowers and it's gotten to the point where today we have our own gardener. The flowers are you know kind of better than they've ever been.

CO: You have known the Lombard Street has drawn tourists for a very long time. How much worse is it these days?

GB: As I said I've been here 22 years, the tourism has really taken off in the last eight to 10 years. There's two issues on the street: there's 1) cars, and the other is pedestrians. The cars congests the whole neighbourhood because it's gotten to the point now where two million plus people visit the street every year. On summer days -- weekend summer days -- you can get up to 20,000 people coming down the street -- both in cars and walking. And the walking part is the worst to be honest.

CO: So how do you deal with it? I mean what are some of the experiences you have had with these tourists?

GB: The worst thing for people driving wise that live here is getting to the street because on the weekends they line up. And so the traffic congestion is a real problem for the whole neighbourhood because people that live two or three blocks from the street have cars bumper to bumper in front of their homes idling.

CO: And what about the tourists on foot? What problems are they presenting?

GB: There is the tour bus companies -- I mean there are so many out here right now there's many more out here right now than when I just said a second ago. They arrive in bunches. And the tour bus companies -- it costs them nothing and yet it uses up some of the time that their customers pay for. But the pedestrians are a particular problem because people driving down in cars don't get out and take selfies of themselves or climb in the gardens or get out of their cars and cut the flowers or come into your carport and defecate.

CO: What!

GB: Yes.

CO: That happened to you?!

GB: Many times. And it happens not just to me -- there are 71 home units on these two blocks...it's happened to all of us at different times. I have at least once a month somebody climbing onto my roof to get a better picture, and I can hear them, and I keep a golf club right by my front door because I've never had to use it. But you never know what's up there.

CO: But you have to chase them off your roof.

GB: I have to chase them off my roof yes. I mean that's just amazing and they're just people -- and I say, what are you doing up here? Well we just wanted to get a picture of this. I shoo them away. The people are the ones -- they climb all over your property, they go in the flower beds -- there are signs everywhere that says don't walk on the street because it could be a safety issue. And it has. Car wise, we've had -- a couple of years ago on July 4th -- a poor little girl got pinned between the wall and the car -- and broke several of her bones I guess. And we've had cars flip over in the street because they hit the curb and somehow were going too fast or something and flip over. It is surprising that no one's gotten killed yet.

CO: Now describe what they are proposing as a possible solution or at least some way to reduce this -- what's this new toll and reservation system?

GB: It's a win-win for both the tourist and those who live in the neighbourhood -- not just on the street. The reservation system will be such that you will call up on your iPhone or whatever and you'll get a reservation. There'll be an app. And you'll get a reservation and the time you give your license plate. And just like the Golden Gate Bridge here where there used to be toll booths --now there are cameras that as you drive through take a picture your license plate and you get billed. So when you have a reservation system the computers will tie the license plate to the reservation and you'll be charged. I don't know what the city is going to charge but I think they're going to charge -- they talk about five dollars. But if you don't have a reservation and you go down, you're going to get charged a major multiple of that because that is the enforcer.

CO: It's not going to prevent people from defecating in your carport.

GB: No -- those are on foot.

CO: So there's nothing to stop that.

GB: Not yet.

CO: Just finally -- one of the people were saying well you know what's your problem, you live on a very very good street and beautiful neighbourhood here, you are part of the privileged elite, and so hey what have you got to complain about the people just trying to make some money off of tourism?

GB: What does that have to do with them defecating in your carport.

CO: [Chuckles] Besides that. But you do live in a beautiful neighbourhood, very prestigious neighbourhood. And so they say hey you know maybe the hoi polloi can share some of this with you.

GB: We didn't go to try and block any traffic coming down here. We just wanted some order and ability to get to our own homes. And now they're going to have a little bit of order.

CO: Greg thanks for speaking with us.

GB: Not a problem.

CO: All right take care.

GB: Thank you.

JD: We reached Greg Brundage on Lombard Street in San Francisco.

[Music]

Georgia Engle

JD: That a gentle voice was the trademark of Georgette Franklin -- the sweet, innocent girlfriend of arrogant news host Ted Baxter on "The Mary Tyler Moore Show." It was also the actual voice of Georgia Engle who played Georgette. Ms. Engle has died at the age of 70. Her cause of death is unknown. She was a Christian Scientist who did not consult doctors. In 1972, Ms. Engle was just supposed to appear on one episode of The Mary Tyler Moore Show -- but she was so loved, they ended up writing a role just for her. She later co-starred on "The Betty White Show" and "Everybody Loves Raymond" and was nominated for five Emmys. And here she is in an appearance on CBC's "The Entertainers" in 1988.

SOUNDCLIP

GEORGIA ENGEL: I don't know if you know but I do about one Love Boat a year. And I'm afraid I turned down six or seven a year because so many of them were just hopping in and out of bed when they've known somebody for two seconds it just seemed so silly to me. But you'd be surprised -- you wouldn't be surprised -- but the young people are so impressionable, and I know young people look up to me and I don't want to do a part that misleads them and makes them think that I'm condoning very very loose morals.

REPORTER: But would Georgia Engel play the part of a woman of dubious moral fiber if the role was more weighty than the somewhat silly Love Boat series?

GEORGIA ENGEL: That's a very good question. I would not hesitate at all to play a villain if the overall view of the piece is somehow redeeming and shows that error ends up just destroying itself and that good is supreme because that's what I believe. I think some people think I would only do good characters and that isn't true. But I would like the play to have some redeeming value rather than just doing evil for the sake of doing evil. I wouldn't do that.

JD: That was Georgia Engle who played Georgette Franklin on "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" and Pat McDougall on "Everybody Loves Raymond." She was speaking to CBC's The Entertainers in 1988.

[Music]

Part 2: Lack of resources, not anti-vaxxers, to blame for Madagascar measles outbreak, says health worker

Madagascar Measles

Guest: Lon Kightlinger

JD: Madagascar is in the middle of the largest measles outbreak in its history. More than 1200 people have died on the island since September -- most of those are children. Lon Kightlinger is a retired state epidemiologist from South Dakota who now lives in Madagascar as a volunteer for the Peace Corps. He works at a health clinic there. We reached him in Mantasoa, Madagascar.

CO: Mr. Kightlinger what kinds of cases are you seeing at the health clinic where you work?

LON KIGHTLINGER: Well in the past about three months we've seen 150 cases of measles. And this is really only the tip of the iceberg. We don't do follow-up to people's homes or anything so these are people, mostly children, that are coming into the clinic with measles. We're seeing cases of all ages, we're seeing very young children, school aged kids, adults, young adults. We're seeing the full age range. And that's part of what makes this outbreak a bit unusual.

CO: This has been called the largest outbreak in Madagascar's history. So why is it happening now do you think?

LK: Well what I think is happening is Madagascar is an island so that is geographically protective against measles. You know it takes a little more for these diseases to hop the ocean and get over here. And then secondly, we've had a fairly robust immunization program in Madagascar for many years so the ministry says 58 percent of the population is vaccinated. In fact our physician at our health centre -- she's been a practicing physician for 13 years and she has never seen a case of measles. So the disease, the virus, has been kept away and it found its way back here. And we had a whole generation of people who were not vaccinated and the population wasn't saturated with vaccines so we didn't have herd immunity. The virus came back and started spreading from person to person, family to family, school the school, community to community. And now we've got over 125,000 cases.

CO: And 1200 people have already died on the island since September.

LK: Yeah it's taking quite a toll here. And I've seen some very sick people. Nobody in our clinic has died -- I'm happy to report that. But very sick people -- people with high fevers, rash, and raw mouth, conjunctivitis, coughing, the whole spectrum. 20-year-old young men have to be carried in. They're just so sick it just wipes them out.

CO: Why do you think -- because as you mention that herd immunity which is the gold standard, it has to be about 95 percent to be effective. So why do you think that people stopped getting vaccinated? Because it just slipped their mind, didn't matter, or have they been infected -- if I can use that word -- by what's happened elsewhere which is this skepticism about the vaccine.

LK: No. No. It's not that at all. I don't find anybody here that's really you know afraid of the vaccine or are skeptical. It has to do with a lot of things. And a lot of it's just the basic infrastructure of the country. Most of the countries off the main road and you know partly inaccessible. During the rainy season, it's very hard to get around. And it's hard to get from point A to point B in the case -- much less you're trying to keep a cold chain going where you are keeping vaccines refrigerated. So just the delivery system is very, very, challenging. People live long distances from the health centre, have to bring your baby and at nine months of age to be vaccinated. So it's just obstacle after obstacle after obstacle. But you know I really don't see any vaccine hesitancy or opposition here at all.

CO: You're just one health clinic among many. You're just one guy.

LK: One tiny little piece in the puzzle. Yep.

CO: Exactly. But if you could be the puzzle master, if you could be the one who could make decisions what has to happen in Madagascar -- well I guess right now you're just dealing with this epidemic -- but what do you have to do in order to get people vaccinated again?

LK: Well just follow the normal policy that we have here. The Ministry of Health has a great policy -- every child by the first year has to be vaccinated, fully vaccinated, against 10 diseases. It's just getting the vaccine out to every health centre, the village health worker needs to notify people, and when a baby is born the parents have to be aware and cognizant and motivated to bring their child to be vaccinated. We in public health have to keep beating the drum, reminding, educating, because for each new baby that's born it's a new experience and you have to start over with that child from scratch. So it's a lot of things going on here. But I would just you know augment what the policy is already in place and get the vaccines delivered where they're needed.

CO: And because as you point out this has been -- well we haven't seen measles on the island. Many people haven't seen that in generations. So how are people reacting? You said there are even young men being carried in. It's a very very highly contagious disease. So how are people reacting to it?

LK: People are scared. When we had the mass vaccination campaign in our community, people came from far and wide to get vaccinated. There was no hesitancy. The lines were long. The days were hot. They brought the children in -- you know up through age nine, we didn't go higher than that. And there is fear of the disease. The Malagasy word for it is kitrotro, which to me sounds pretty scary. And you know people know that their kids are going to get sick. And they've heard from past, they've heard from their elders, that kitrotro comes and children die. And they've heard this and then they see how sick their children get -- and it's widely known already that a thousand children have died. In one community you know we've heard that 10 young children died. So word gets out by social media here, by the grapevine of people remember what happened in days gone by. And people are afraid of measles and they are getting vaccinated.

CO: We will leave it there Mr. Kightlinger. And I know you have got to get back to work. I appreciate you giving us some time. Thank you.

LK: Okay. Thank you so much.

JD: Lon Kightlinger it's a Peace Corps volunteer. We reached him in Mantasoa, Madagascar. We have more on the measles outbreak on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Street checks

JD: A report issued last month found that black people were six times more likely to be randomly stopped by police in Halifax than white people. The practice is known as "street checks." And today, Nova Scotia's Justice Minister announced he was putting an end to it in the province -- at least temporarily. He said police will hold off on street checks while the department considers how to regulate the practice. This afternoon Justice Minister Mark Furey spoke with guest host Carolyn Ray on "Mainstreet Halifax" about the new rule.

SOUNDCLIP

MARK FUREY: The application of this really comes down to relationships between law enforcement officers and members of the community. And I used an example earlier today -- I would never want to prohibit a police officer from stopping and playing a game of road hockey with children. And we would never want to put restrictions in place that prevent -- as a Halifax Regional Police officer did last fall sitting down on the curb with a homeless person on Spring Garden Road. We have to find that balance.

CAROLYN RAY: But with all due respect minister I mean playing with kids on the street I don't think anybody would refer to that as a street check.

MARK FUREY: No I wasn't insinuating that. What we have to be careful of and this is where the clarity is required -- we don't want to restrict, and this was identified in Wortley report, the critical piece of police-community relations -- there was a number of recommendations that are specific to that. We want our law enforcement community to continue to engage the public in a constructive respectful way. And we want the broad community to recognise and accept that element of policing and encourage those positive interactions versus the past confrontation associated with street checks and the problems that it has presented and been identified within our African-Nova Scotian community.

JD: That was the Justice Minister for Nova Scotia Mark Furey in conversation with guest host Carolyn Ray on "Mainstreet Halifax." Today, the province announced it would temporarily suspend the practice of random police street checks.

[Music]

Baby T-Rex Sale

Guest: Jessica Theodor

JD: The eBay listing reads, quote: "Most likely the only BABY T-Rex in the world! It has a 15-foot long body and a 21-inch skull with serrated teeth." Now you could be forgiven for thinking this is one of those joke listings like a ghost in a jar or grilled cheese sandwich with the face of the Virgin Mary on it. But it's not. It's legit. And the "Buy-it-now" price has been set at nearly 3-million U.S. dollars. And now, staff at the museum housing the bones and paleontologists around the world are livid. Professor Jessica Theodor is the Vice President of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology -- the group that published an open letter criticizing the private collector for selling the T-Rex. We reached Professor Theodor in Calgary.

CO: Professor Theodor how did you find out that this baby T-Rex specimen was on sale on eBay?

JESSICA THEODOR: Actually I found out because it showed up on my Twitter feed [chuckles] but it was very quickly brought to our attention as the society leadership.

CO: And this is for sale by a private owner -- someone privately owns a fossil -- well as they say in the listing -- "possibly the only BABY T-Rex in the world." I mean this is a valuable piece of history. So it's in the hands of a private owner.

JT: So in this case, the private owner is the collector. So this was excavated on private land based out of the Hell Creek Formation in Montana. He had permission from whoever owned the property. And so that means that he has the right to dispose of it under U.S. law.

CO: From what you have been able to see of the images and reading the eBay listing, what do you make of it? How valuable is this fossil?

JT: Scientifically, potentially quite valuable. There is partial skull and lower jaw and several teeth and then there's parts of the rest of the skeleton. But there are and certainly have been other specimens reported of juvenile T-rexes -- it is rare but it's not unheard of. You know the value in it is what we can then do with it in terms of understanding the life and evolution of tyrannosaurs.

CO: And this is a kind of -- well I couldn't say an amateur dinosaur hunter, but this is someone who does this for hobby, right?

JT: I don't know that it's a hobby or if it's actually his living. It's not entirely clear to me. He does have a website where he makes artwork out of pieces of fossils as well. There are a number of people who are private collectors who collect and sell fossil specimens in the United States.

CO: So where has this baby T-Rex been on display?

JT: It's been on display at the Museum of Natural History at University of Kansas. It's not a KU specimen -- they don't own it, they have not numbered it, but it was on display via an agreement with the collector at their museum for about the past year.

CO: The picture then that we're seeing in the ad is from the museum.

JT: Yep.

CO: And how much work did the museum put into it? Because it's beautifully displayed, it's done all the ways that a museum would do.

JT: Presumably a reasonable amount of work went into putting it on display there, yes. And the museum -- early on, there were certainly comments from the director the museum on social media that this is an important specimen to see and a once-in-a-lifetime kind of thing to see.

CO: And they're not happy about this sale are they?

JT: No they're quite upset. As soon as they heard about it they removed a specimen from display. It was their understanding with the collector that attempts were being made to negotiate its sale to another museum. Wasn't there some understanding that the University of Kansas natural history museum might become the recipient of it...

CO: I think that's what most museums hope when they do these kinds of exhibits of material from private collectors. This is not the first or only case of this happening. There's currently a tyrannosaur on display in the Natural History Museum in Berlin -- Museum fur Naturkunde. There was an Allosaurus on display last year in a museum in Belgium and that actually did go to auction. Part of the reason the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology responded with the open letter that we did is that we think professionally that this is a practice that museums should not engage in. If the specimen has not already been donated to you, if you don't own it, then what you're doing is offering a private collector an opportunity to hype the value.

CO: Can you just tell us what concerns you as a paleontologist about this sale?

JT: Yeah these specimens are valuable to us to understand they have passed the earth. And they're rare. Often they're unique. And once they're sold, we can't verify any research that's been done on them. The point is that to science what museum collections are is kind of a library of objects for us to revisit. So if somebody has had an idea about T-rex and they can go back to the museum and say you know 'so-and-so got it wrong' -- 'in actual fact, we've done some new analyses on the material and we figured out this new piece of information.' And science is self-correcting up to a point. But if the objects aren't there for us to verify with, we can't correct. And when we develop new methods of analysis like the last 20 years of paleontology have been revolutionized by C.T. scanning -- if that specimen is in somebody's living room, I can't C.T. scan it, I can't verify it, I can't do chemical tests on it, I can't check the work.

CO: So if it goes into somebody's living room...who has the money? Who would buy...

JT: Nicolas Cage and Leonardo DiCaprio have bought dinosaurs in recent memory.

CO: Really?

JT: Yeah.

CO: For fun? Like something hanging around in the living room?

JT: As something with a value that they can collect yeah. And they're not the only ones. There's a number that have been bought at various times for company headquarters and things like that. And that takes them out of the scientific literature because it's unethical for us to publish on specimens where we can't verify the data.

CO: But if this professional fossil hunter and collector is looking to make money then shouldn't the museum be the one who buys it?

JT: Yeah. The problem is we don't have the budgets. Museums are often operating on very very thin margins. And in many cases the prices on the dinosaurs have gone through the roof since the Sue case -- that was a specimen that ended up being sold to the Field Museum of Natural History. And McDonald's ended up paying a good portion of the money. It went at auction for over 8 million dollars. And that really ramped the prices up. Museums can afford some, but not many.

CO: This open letter that your Society of Vertebrate Paleontologists put out -- is this unusual? I mean in a way you're almost shaming this man for what he did. Is that something you've done before?

JT: You know we're really not trying to shame this particular collector. We're trying to express that we feel this trade really needs to change. We've actually posted a number of letters asking auction houses to stop sales that have gone forward. In this particular case, our concern actually in part was the collector but also the concern that several museums have done this and that this is really problematic because it basically turns the museum into a shill for somebody's specimen that they're going to sell.

CO: Okay so given that, hasn't he burned his bridges if he has been exposed as using the museum in this way -- how likely is that he's going to be able to find another museum who's going to do the same thing again?

JT: Pretty unlikely at this point I would say. And he has admitted to Science Magazine that it could have been handled better.

CO: But at this point you figure this has been lost to the public -- this particular specimen.

JT: Most likely yes. I don't think he has any intention at this point. I mean I could be wrong. I haven't spoken with him personally. But his actions indicate that he's not willing to wait any more for any museums to come up with the money -- he wants to sell it. And that's his right. We just want to express that that goes against our ethics and we want to make clear how we regard the trade in fossils.

CO: Professor Theodor I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

JT: Thank you.

JD: Professor Jessica Theodor is a paleontologist at the University of Calgary, and Vice President of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology. We reached her in Calgary.

[Music]

Polar bear

JD: A polar bear is not a rare sighting out at Carrie Dyson's family cabin in Black Tickle, Labrador. So she and her husband always know what to do: you make a loud noise and the bear will head off in its own merry way. And so that's what they did yesterday morning when two polar bears started poking around their neighbour's house. Her husband fired up his Skidoo. The bears ran away. Then a third bear showed up. No big whoop. Fired off a shotgun. Bear took off. And then they settled back down to finish their breakfast. And that is when things took a turn. Today, Carrie Dyson told the story to Gavin Simms on "Newfoundland morning." Here's part of their conversation.

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CARRIE DYSON: About 20 minutes to half an hour after that, we had one come visit us. And I tell you, he wasn't a very nice bear.

GAVIN SIMMS: So describe this guy to me -- how big was he? Was he an older bear?

CARRIE DYSON: I know he was big. But yeah we couldn't scare him off at all. He was hissing at us. He was growling at us. And after being sometime -- my ski doo in and (he) taken the piece right out of my seat with his mouth -- just one smack with his teeth like that and the piece was gone out of my seat. He was in for the hunting -- and I think we were his hunt.

GAVIN SIMMS: Really? So you think he was there for you guys -- he could smell you?

CARRIE DYSON: I think he was an aggressive bar, yep. He had me scared. And like I mean my husband is not an easy person to scare and I could even hear it in his voice.

GAVIN SIMMS: What was your husband doing at this point?

CARRIE DYSON: He was trying to calm me down. And he was calculating like what he is going to do. It was after firing off four shot then and the bear not even moving out of the way. And we only had two cartridges left. And he said like you know I don't want to shoot off no more cartridges try to frighten it away when it's not going to go. But he said you know if it happens to come that we got to then you know we're going to have to shoot it.

GAVIN SIMMS: So what happened?

CARRIE DYSON: I called over to our friend's house and they jumped on ski doo. I told them the panic that we were in. And the ski doo came along and he just went around the back or whatever. They kind of chased him off from the house. But I said that's enough for me. I packed up stuff then -- that was it. I was crying all the way home.

GAVIN SIMMS: So you're back home safe now are you?

CARRIE DYSON: I am back home safe. We were going to go back up for Easter but it's not happening now. I mean to just think about it now, it's just crazy like I don't know. I hope I never have to go through it again.

JD: That's Carrie Dyson telling CBC Radio's "Newfoundland Morning" about her close encounter with a polar bear.

[Music]

Rick Heatley

JD: Rick Heatley knew he was in trouble when he looked up. Last Friday, the paraglider survived a mid-air collision with another glider near a mountain on Vancouver Island. He managed to land safely on Mount Hall -- but the weather became too dangerous for a helicopter to attempt a rescue. Here is Mr. Heatley telling CBC British Columbia what happened.

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RICK HEATLEY: My first instinct was my glider is collapsing. First thing you do is you look up and you assess what configuration your glider is in -- that dictates what you do to recover the glider. Unfortunately, when I looked up there was a person in my glider which...that is not what you want to see. I've done a fair amount of training on high performance gliders so I knew that the chances of us surviving or even surviving without injury, I had to get her out of my glider. So I performed a full stall. I stalled my glider. And what that did was open my glider back up and gave her a chance to get out. When she left, my glider went into a configuration of being unflyable. I couldn't recover the glider -- it was too damaged and it went into a nose down spiral. So at that point I deployed -- and within ten seconds I was on the side of a mountain. And then the clouds moved. Cloud base lowered, the winds picked up, so everything worked against the helicopter getting to me. They tried until about seven o'clock which was heroic. I mean they were fighting really really not good conditions. Eventually told me you know you're going to have to spend the night up there. The hill was so steep that I couldn't even sit where I was -- I was standing for about two and a half hours waiting for the helicopter. At that point I needed to sit. I needed to find a place to stay for the night. So I hiked as far as I dared down the hill. So I had some hiking poles with me and I put them in the ground and put them against my chest and used them to hold myself up so I didn't fly down the hill in the middle of the night. I covered myself with my glider and I felt fairly warm and comfortable at that point. But you know it got colder and colder. And then the winds picked up and when daylight came I had about four or five inches of snow on me. And unfortunately my feet had got wet so I was under the glider in the snow with bare feet -- I had no socks, no shoes on. I was continuously just rubbing my feet trying to make sure I didn't get frostbite on my feet.

JD: Paraglider Rick Heatley speaking with CBC British Columbia. Mr. Heatley spent last Friday night stuck on Mount Hall on Vancouver Island after surviving a mid-air crash.

[Music]

Part 3: The 'last treasure trove' of Kafka's works to be released from Swiss bank vaults

Kafka Vault

Guest: Benjamin Balint

JD: It kind of sounds like a plot ripped straight from the pages of a Franz Kafka novel. For a decade now, the Bohemian Jewish author who died in 1924 has been at the centre of a confusing drawn out legal battle. A battle over the question of who should be the rightful owner of Mr. Kafka’s long-lost unpublished material. Now some of that unpublished material is not long-lost -- indeed it is stowed away in a bank vault in Switzerland. And this week a court in Zurich ruled that that trove of material belongs to Israel. Benjamin Balint wrote a book about the legal odyssey entitled, "Kafka's Last Trial." Mr. Balint is a research fellow at the Van Leer Jerusalem Institute. We reached him in Jerusalem.

CO: Mr. Balint what do you think Kafka would have made of this epic battle over his material?

BENJAMIN BALINT: You know I think he would have been quite amused. On the one hand I think that in entrusting his last wish to his best friend Max Brod the wish that Brod would destroy all of his manuscripts unread. He precisely and very cleverly entrusted that last wish with the man least likely to fulfil it in the sense that these were two very close friends. And I think Kafka knew that Max Brod would not be able to carry out his instructions. And on the other hand I think that Kafka would have been very amused by the ways that 95 years after his death he would be so possessively claimed.

CO: And all these courts fighting over and all of these suits. And well, it sounds pretty Kafkaesque, doesn't it?

BB: That's exactly the right term.

CO: What is possibly in this bank vault in Zurich?

BB: Well in a sense this is the last piece of a puzzle that as I said began 95 years ago and then wound its way up through eight years of legal conundrums and cultural conundrums here in Jerusalem -- culminating in 2016 with the Supreme Court's decision that Kafka's material should end up in the National Library here. And the Zurich piece is the last treasure trove you might say. And it includes for example Kafka's Paris diaries, it includes the original of Kafka's letter to his father which he gave to Max Brod, it includes correspondence between these two men from their days in Prague together and their travels together. And I think it's going to be fascinating to see how it sheds light on both of these characters.

CO: Okay so what did Max Brod actually do with the material after -- well his friend Franz Kafka wanted him to destroy it all, he didn't. Who did he leave it to?

BB: Max Brod rescued the works of Franz Kafka more than once. He rescued them from Kafka's last will as we said. He also rescued them in March of 1939 when Prague was just being occupied by the German forces. Max Brod took the last train out of Prague and carried with him a single suitcase and in that suitcase he had stuffed the manuscripts and drafts of Franz Kafka. And he brought that suitcase with him to his new life in Tel Aviv. And Max Brod not having children decided to -- in his will -- bequeath the most valuable thing that he had to his closest confidante and to his secretary who had helped him edit all these works. Her name was Esther Hoffe.

CO: But Ms. Hoffe considered that this trove belonged to her -- this was her property, she inherited it. So what did she do with it?

BB: Starting after Max Brod died in 1968, she started to do something that she had never dared to do during his lifetime: she began to sell bits and pieces of it. So most famously in 1988 she went to Sotheby's in London and she auctioned off the original manuscript copy of Franz Kafka's novel The Trial. And she and her daughter lived off of this money -- they sold you know letters.

CO: The material in Zurich was not in this bank vault wasn't the only place -- this is the most recent one that has been a case trying to get that released and that's been successful for Israel. But what about -- there's another bank vault and then there's some old apartment building full of cats that material ended up in -- what's that all about?

BB: Well yeah the material was divided into these three parts: the Swiss part, the bank vault in Switzerland, the bank in Tel Aviv and the apartment that Esther Hoffe shared with her daughter Eva on Spinoza Street in Tel Aviv which by all accounts was an appalling conditions and shared with dozens of cats you know people were imagining cats crawling over Franz Kafka's priceless manuscripts.

CO: Has there been damage from the cats in that building?

BB: Yeah I spoke to two members of the team who in mid-September of last year finally got access to that apartment and they described cockroaches, spiderwebs, untended cats --some of the manuscripts were for example, just to give you a visual picture, we're stored in an unplugged refrigerator. These were the conditions of Franz Kafka's manuscripts.

CO: That material though has been rescued I presume.

BB: That was rescued in September and it's still as we speak been sorted through the National Library here -- it includes amazing stuff I have to say.

CO: What is it you want to learn about -- I guess not just Kafka himself but about Max Brod, about the relationship, about all this material?

BB: It really sheds light on this remarkable friendship between these two men. Imagine that you're a writer or an artist -- and your closest friend is an artist of genius. And you have to sort of understand that you yourself are not a genius and all you can do is sort of aid and lift that genius as much as possible. I think it's not an easy position to be in. And that's first act of both betraying Kafka's last will but in the very same moment of betrayal it's also an act of love. And I think that motivates the story ever since.

CO: Most of what Max Brod was able to save and salvage is now going to be in Israel. There are those who say that that's not where it should be. I mean even people who think it's theirs. Why is Israel the most appropriate place for all this material?

BB: Well I have to tell you I was sitting in the Supreme Court during the hearings and I was astonished by the fact that the conversation between the lawyers and the three justices didn't merely revolve around questions of inheritance but just under the surface there was a different register of language which was heavily charged with emotion and with ideology. You know the German side would say well you know Franz Kafka died before there was a state of Israel. He never stepped foot in this place. He wasn't a Zionist by any account. So how can you claim that he belongs somehow in Jerusalem? And on the other hand the Israeli party to the dispute would say well maybe Germany is the last place that Kafka's legacy should be deposited. All three of Kafka's sisters were killed in the Holocaust. You can't claim that you preserved Kafka's family very well. And although Kafka wrote in German of course one was a master of the German language, he wasn't himself German. He was a Jewish writer living as a minority in the German speaking part of the Czech minority of the Austro Hungarian Empire. So it wasn't just any two countries who were coming ahead, determining the question of where Kafka's legacy should belong -- it was precisely these two countries which have such a complicated past.

CO: We'll leave it there. It's a fascinating story Mr. Balint and thank you for telling it us.

BB: Thank you for sharing it with me.

JD: Benjamin Balint is the author of Kafka's Last Trial, and a research fellow at the Van Leer Jerusalem Institute. We reached Mr. Balint in Jerusalem.

[Music]

Owen Garriott

JD: He never got a chance to walk on the moon. But Owen Garriott did become a space-flight pioneer. Mr. Garrett died on Monday. He was 88-years-old. Unlike many early astronauts Mr. Garriott was a scientist before he was a fighter pilot. Although he was recruited to NASA during the Apollo era, he didn't get a chance to fly to space until 1973. But when he did, he definitely made the most of it. He spent 59 days aboard the Skylab 3 space station -- and that, at the time, was a space flight record. Back in 1968 the CBC's Bob Evans interviewed Owen Garriott. Mr. Evans asked him why it was important for a man to land on the moon, and if the job couldn't be done better by an instrument.

SOUNDCLIP

OWEN GARRIOT: As a matter of fact I think those tasks which can be performed by instruments more easily for the most part have been done in just that way. And of course as we look back we can see that this is what Ranger did in the photographic missions. And then followed that with the Surveyor which had additional photography -- and then actually the soft landing on the lunar surface. And so these programs did get along without man and they pushed the capability of the equipment really quite close to the limit. The fact that Surveyor in particular has functioned as well as it has certainly -- not been in any accident, but nevertheless has been very gratifying that the equipment performed as well as it did. So I rather think that in many cases we've pushed the limit of what fully automated equipment can do.

BOB EVANS: How did you reconcile the aspect of danger which is present in the moon program?

OWEN GARRIOT: Well naturally you always want to evaluate the probabilities of an accident in any sort of undertaking you're going to try. Whether or not it's a daily drive of 20 miles on a freeway or whether or not it's flying a high performance aircraft or whether or not it happens to be on a trip into Earth early in our orbit. And it's my own view that there are some risks -- perhaps they've been exaggerated at least by some people -- my own view is that the risks are certainly worth the potential value to be obtained from being a part of the program.

JD: That was Owen Garriott being interviewed by the CBC's Bob Evans in 1968. The NASA astronaut died Monday. He was 88-year-old.

[Music]

Newfoundland Bell Island Ferry

Guest: Brian Reese

JD: A trip on a ferry on the Newfoundland coast can be beautiful. But for one local man it can be also painful. Brian Reese is a double leg amputee. He takes the ferry from Bell Island to Portugal Cove three times a week. According to regulations, passengers must leave their vehicles during the five kilometre ride. In recent weeks however Mr. Reese has resisted that role because he says it is too painful for him to get in and out of his car. That move -- or lack I guess of move -- has sparked hours long delays. And yesterday a demonstration of solidarity. We reached Brian Reese on Bell Island, Newfoundland.

CO: Brian can you explain to people why you don't want to leave your vehicle during the ferry ride?

BRIAN REESE: Well for one thing, I'm on dialysis. I go back and forth three days a week. And after dialysis you know I feel pretty bad some days, right. And another thing, I'm a double leg amputee -- one below the knee, and one above the knee. I'm waiting in hospital again now for the other leg to be amputated -- above the leg -- and it's just too hard.

CO: And this ferry ride we're talking about -- what about 15 minutes long?

BR: About 15 minutes yeah.

CO: How difficult is it for you to get out of your car and go through all of that?

BR: Well it's very difficult. You're tried enough after going through dialysis and then with the pain I'm having with my leg -- the sore leg -- and well I don't have a leg to stand on.

CO: When you don't get out of your vehicle, what happens?

BR: Well the response to that is the ferry -- they'll come down and ask me to get out. The last couple of days they'll tie the boat up.

CO: So the boat just stays at the pier and it doesn't go anywhere.

BR: They tie the boat up and try to unload -- because people they won't get off the boat because you know they try to support me too, right.

CO: Why can't you stay in your car?

BR: Well the government changed that a couple of years ago. You know the 60 years I've been traveling back and forth on it -- and the government come in a couple of years ago and it changed it. I don't know why they changed it. They said safety. But it's like something we've always done.

CO: The province's Department of Transportation and Work says that the safety of passengers and crew is of priority -- I'm quoting here -- "all ferry services in the province require passengers vacate their vehicles before the vessel is permitted to sail and until the vessel is safely berthed." That's what they say.

BR: That's what they say. But like you say you don't know what to believe what the government is telling us because the people echoed a lot of people I have done talking to who travel through the ferry -- going to port -- North Sydney. They're allowed to go back in their cars a half hour before that boat docks -- a half hour. And here we are with a 15 minute boat ride and we've got to get out of our cars for that.

CO: So when you don't do it -- when you say 'look I can't. I won't.' What do they do when you won't?

BR: They'll tie up the boat -- that's the main thing that they'll do. Tie up the boat. But they called an ambulance the other day -- and the ambulance got aboard the boat, they lifted me body and bones and put me on a stretcher and put me in the ambulance. And we sailed across the Bell Island -- the ambulance got off the boat, they lifted me body and bone again -- body and bones -- and put me in my car. Now why couldn't they leave me on the boat and someone from the ambulance just sit in the car with me.

CO: Sounds like they're trying to accommodate you. I mean the ambulance and what they did -- it sounds like they're trying to make an effort to make this work for you, doesn't it?

BR: Well they're trying to make an effort for that day -- to just to get me home to get the boat going again. What happens tomorrow when I don't have dialysis and I want to go to St. John's to visit my granddaughter. You know? What have I got to do?

CO: What are you asking them to do? You asking them to make an exception for you? Is that what you want?

BR: Well I'd like to see people be able to stay in. Like I said there's only about 2400 people here I suppose. And 75 percent of people are senior citizens. You know just people in wheelchairs -- older people, they have mobility issues, they don't want to be getting out of their cars.

CO: And the only way to get off Bell Island is in the ferry?

BR: Yes that's the only way. And like I said you know the people on this island have been doing that all along. They could always stay in their car if they wanted to. I don't mind when I could -- I didn't mind getting out of my car. You know who wants to be sat in the car on a nice summer day where you can go up on the deck of the boat. You know people who can't walk or older people you know they don't want to be getting out and to go upstairs to look around. They want to stay in their car and go to the doctor's appointment or wherever they want to go.

CO: Are there people who are not so supportive -- who are not happy about these delays that are caused when you refuse to get out of your car?

BR: I'm sure -- probably would have a couple of people, you know. But most people that I've ever talked to that have come up to me and shook my hand and said, you're doing a good job. And you know the ferry has been delayed for a lot of things over the years and some things I didn't like probably. But you know you support them if the cause he thinks is right.

CO: Brian do you think you can get this changed? Do you think you can get them to accommodate you?

BR: I don't know. I don't know. They should be able to do something -- not for everyone, everyone don't need it -- but you know for people with problems they should be able to do something for them.

CO: I appreciate you telling us about what's going on there and I hope it all works out for you. Thank you.

BR: I hope you it do too. Thanks a lot.

JD: Brian Reese lives on Bell Island in Newfoundland that is where we reached him. Mr. Reese is a double leg amputee who wants the province to change rules that force ferry passengers to exit their vehicles during a ride -- something he says is too painful for him.

[Music]

Jan Kuciak

JD: Early last year we told you about the murders of Slovak journalist Jan Kuciak and his fiancee, Martina Kusnirova. They had been found dead in their home. Each killed by a single gunshot. At the time police believed the murders were connected to Mr. Kuciak's journalism and indeed his last exposé published posthumously detailed corruption and fraud involving Slovak businessmen, top politicians, and the Italian mafia. Now an ex-soldier who has been charged along with three other suspects has confessed to the double murder -- a crime that sparked an enormous public outcry and even a change in national leadership. In February of 2018 Carol spoke to a fellow journalist and friend of Jan Kuciak, Tom Nicholson. He described what his friend had been investigating that put his life in danger.

SOUNDCLIP

TN: What he was doing he was tracing the antecedents of some Italian nationals who have been located in Slovakia for at least ten years and in the east of the country and have been doing business there with Euro funds, which are transfers from European Union countries to poor countries to bring them up to speed economically. And what he was showing was that these Italians have family connections and direct connections to the Ndrangheta organized crime group in Italy. And that, in fact, not only were receiving some enormous largess from these Euro funds in Slovakia but that the ringleader Nino Vadalà had actually formed companies and done business specifically with two people in the prime minister's office. One young lady, a former beauty contestant whom the prime minister himself elevated to the position of a senior adviser in 2015, and another man who was the head of security council in the prime minister's office.

CO: Did he ever speak about fearing for his life?

TN: No, he didn't. I mean, he graduated from university five years ago and that was the first time he wrote me because at the time I had just been fired from my job for reporting on a scandal against the wishes of my employer. And he said that — it was kind of encouraging mail — saying I love the reporting and it really confirms for me that I'm in the right job because I really want to do something meaningful and that's, in fact, what he ended up doing. Very quickly, within five years he established himself as a very gifted and conscientious reporter.

CO: So what's been the reaction in Slovakia as far as you can tell?

TN: As far as I can tell almost a universal disgust and not quite a losing of hope, but it's definitely a seminal moment because, you know, corruption has been, for a long time, has been sort of an organizing principle in Slovak of politics with oligarchs controlling public funds through their political representatives. But this is something different. This is, not only organized crime directly connected to the Prime Minister's office, but also really a heart wrenching murder of a young couple who were just about to get married. And honestly, you know, they were just children.

JD: That was Canadian journalist Tom Nicholsons speaking to this program about his friend and his colleague slain Slovak journalist Jan Kuciak. A former soldier has confessed to murdering Mr. Kuciak and his fiancee Martina Kusnirova.

[Music]

Lenin Moreno

JD: He is not a journalist. He is a cyber-terrorist. He interfered in foreign countries political doings according to his own agenda. He violated the spoken and unspoken terms of asylum. And he's gross. Boiled down, that is what Lenin Moreno, the President of Ecuador told BBC North America Editor Jon Sopel in a new interview. So it's no wonder that that interview concludes this way.

SOUNDCLIP

JON SOPEL: Are you relieved that he's gone.

LENIN MORENO: I think all Ecuadorians are relieved. They just did a survey showing 80 percent of Ecuadorians wanted Mr. Assange to leave. That he did not behave the way in an aslyee should with respect for the country that has warmly welcomed him, sheltered him, and given him food for all that time.

JD: So that is how the interview ends. By that point President Moreno has described several of Mr. Assange's serious transgressions during his long stay in the Ecuadorian embassy in London before his arrest last week. His meddling in the US elections, his interference in the debate over Catalonia's independence in Spain, and his possible ties to Russia. But that is just the big picture stuff. The smaller picture -- his behaviour inside the embassy was clearly a major factor in Ecuador's decision to revoke his asylum. Here's Mr. Sopel's second question to President Moreno.

SOUNDCLIP

JON SOPEL: And how did he treat staff?

LENIN MORENO: Well pretty bad -- very bad. In a despotic way he even attacked some of the guards. Something that definitely can't be tolerated. I say again he exhausted our patience and pushed our tolerance to the limit.

JD: "Exhausted our patience and pushed our tolerance to the limit." That sounds a little melodramatic. But it all becomes very clear when you hear Lenin Moreno's answer to question number one.

SOUNDCLIP

JON SOPEL: Why did you revoke the asylum of Julian Assange? What did he do?

LENIN MORENO: From verbal insults against Ecuador when he referred to our country as a completely insignificant country on one hand and on the other -- excuse me that I have to say this here but even smearing his feces on our embassies walls. I think this is sufficient reason to revoke and terminate his asylum.

JD: That is not cool. That is not the kind of thing that screams, "thanks for letting me crash." And it pretty firmly establishes that his smear campaign got way out of hand.

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April 17, 2019 Episode Transcript

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