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The Current Transcript for April 11, 2019

Host: Anna Maria Tremonti

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

Do you all recognise that your pricing policy's in your system is causing people to die every day?

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: She may sound impatient but outraged Democrats in Washington are not exaggerating. A jump in the price of something in the US has led to as many as 25 per cent of diabetics cutting back on how much they're supposed to use. There are thousands of Go Fund Me campaigns for the drug. Other Americans are coming over the border for drugs at one tenth of the cost. Diabetic's in Canada are watching this nervously because their coverage here is inconsistence across the country. We are looking at that in just a few moments. We're also tracking another health issue today. Candida Auris, the drug resistant fungus showing up in hospitals around the world.

SOUNDCLIP

Candida Auris is one of several multidrug resistant organisms. It's an emerging infection. There's a high mortality rate, it is a concern.

AMT: So why did four different strains pop up simultaneously in different locales. We are looking at Candida Auris, it's already shown up in some Canadian hospitals, in an hour. And news of the home Hani Al Moulia fled in Syria comes from a man at the U.N. who became his friend. The home did not outlast the fighting. The friendship has.

SOUNDCLIP

The idea of hom has changed after we lost everything. We just like remember ourselves. That's our home, it's our memory, but the home itself doesn't really mean that much.

AMT: Hani's home is in Canada now and you all meet him in half an hour. But we begin with the arrest of Julian Assange. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti. This is The Current.

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Julian Assange's arrest is 'a vendetta, not justice,' says friend Vaughan Smith

Guest: Vaughn Smith

AMT: Well as you've been hearing on the news, British police entered the Ecuadorian embassy in London today and arrested WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. Ecuador withdrew the asylum status it had granted him seven years ago, saying he quote "repeatedly violated international conventions and daily life protocols". Julian Assange has fight with authorities began in 2010 when he released reams of classified U.S. documents and videos about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, along with confidential diplomatic correspondence. Today Mr. Assange appeared to be resisting as he was taken from the embassy, a police officer on each arm. Vaughn Smith is a journalist and a friend of Julian Assange. We have reached him in Norfolk, England. Hello.

VAUGHN SMITH: Hello there.

AMT: Were you surprised at this news?

VAUGHN SMITH: Well not surprised because when I saw Julian on Friday he clearly expected this. In fact I think half the [unintelligible] were outside the embassy expecting it on the weekend. So not surprised, certainly saddened. I am very saddened. I think it's a very bad day for us all.

AMT: Can you tell us the nature of that conversation you have had on Friday how worried he was? What was he saying?

VAUGHN SMITH: Well Julian has been enjoying asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy for seven years. Enjoying isn't obviously the right word. It's not a comfortable place if you cannot leave the flat. He's had no fresh air. But over the last year things have got much tougher for him because, with the change of government in Ecuador and the American pressure has meant that it's led to what's happened today. He's had his asylum withdrawn. But for a year, he had no internet access, reduced visitation rights, cameras in every room, so he was monitored all the time. It was incredibly difficult for him. He also was gagged. He had no voice. He wasn't allowed to talk to journalists for the last year.

AMT: And his health is not good either, is it?

VAUGHN SMITH: Well his health is as you would expect for someone who is physically and mentally strong to be punished in this way. The solitude that he experiences on the weekends and on public holidays when the embassy is closed, it's difficult, that reduction of visitation rights. Physically he's lost a lot of weight. He's quite a big person and he was fairly solid. He seems significantly slimmer, but he's robust. I mean he's you know he's a survivor and he makes perfect sense when you see him, but you can tell that you know he's found it tough.

AMT: And remind us of the significance of the WikiLeaks release of the documents from Chelsea Manning over the Iraqi and Afghan war back in 2010.

VAUGHN SMITH: Yes I think they're hugely significant. I mean Julian has threatened the most powerful people in the world with exposure. And ordinary people now, thanks to Julian and WikiLeaks the organization he founded, understand a lot more about the cynicism and corruption of their governments than they did before. I mean his releases probably could make a case that led to the Arab Spring. Journalism is hugely in debt today. I mean the number of stories when you go around the well that reflects the diplomatic [unintelligible] that he released. And so he also I think importantly triggered a discussion about transparency that is incredibly important, because you know I don't think these are simple things and it's not a simple matter about what shouldn't be secret. But he has tested that and he suffered for it. I mean clearly the Americans and their handmaidens [unintelligible] the British and persecuted Julian Assange. And I think it smacks of a vendetta not justice.

AMT: And over time since he's been in there you make the point that it's triggered a real discussion about transparency. Journalists as well as the public, but journalists as well, have been really divided over how he has released information. How have you processed that as a friend and a journalist?

VAUGHN SMITH: Look I haven't agreed with everything that Julian has released but it should have been released. I support Julian because I think his rights as an individual reflect on us, his fellow citizens. I think how we treat somebody who we may not agree with that tells us truths that we may not wish to know, but true as always, is a great comment on us. Quite often the next generation will come along and revisit a relook at these things. So I just feel that we need to find a way of treating people like Julian Assange properly and hearing what he has to say and seeing if we can learn from it. But ultimately to just extradite somebody that's inevitable what's happening. I mean you know look at what's happened to Chelsea Manning, because she refused to testify against using Julian and WikiLeaks in the secret court, was put into prison. And they didn't have to do that. She could have house arrest. And you know it's clearly she's taken there a point of principle. So I think this is all about bullying. Julian is a victim of bullying. And the sooner that people who he believes he is working to support the troops that help us understand the society we live in and the people who govern us, the sooner we'll be actually fighting for our interests rather than what we are told are our interests.

AMT: Do you expect Mr. Assange to fight extradition?

VAUGHN SMITH: Yes. I mean the extradition is clearly illegal. You cannot give somebody asylum and then withdraw it in this fashion. I mean there are no grounds for withdrawing, although the Ecuadorians claim there are. But look I'm not against Ecuador, they are being pressured by America for this. This is really about the Americans trying to make an example rather like you Russians visit Saulsberry and kill people to make an example, to teach people a lesson, so other people don't follow that path to annoy them. And the Americans that's what the extradition process is all about. It's a vendetta and I think it’s ugly and I just hope our governments are able to appreciate that Julian has served all the time over the last 10 years having had his liberty taken away. And we must remember that the United Nations Working Group for arbitrary detention, who are the highest authority on the planet for such things have clearly determined that Julian's arbitrarily detained and the U.N. is saying he should have been released. Well let's hope that the British can deal with the procedural matters of him [unintelligible] bail and release him rather than just doing the Americans bidding because I don't think- You know I believe the British public are perfectly fine for people to be extradited if you know, murderers, bank robbers and rapists. Nobody seems to disagree with that. However for criticising a foreign government I'm really not sure that's what we should be extraditing people for if it happens if those criticisms happen to be the truth. And they always are with Julian.

AMT: Vaughan Smith, thank you for your perspective. Good to talk to you.

VAUGHN SMITH: Thank you for having me.

AMT: Vaughn Smith is a journalist who is a friend of Julian Assange and he spoke to us from Norfolk, England. This is The Current.

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Diabetes can cost Canadians $15,000 a year if they don't have any help and that demands a national strategy, say advocates

Guests: Kimberley Hanson, Immaculada Hernandez

SOUNDCLIP

NANNETTE BARRAGAN: I represent a congressional district. People of color are disproportionately impacted by diabetes. Latinos, African-Americans in my reporters are just over 80,000 uninsured. There are a lot of people who probably can afford to pay for their insulin. Do you all recognize that your pricing policies and your system is causing people to die every day? I mean just got down the list here. Yes or no, do you recognise this?

VOICE 1: We need to do something about it collectively.

NANNETTE BARRAGAN: Okay. That's a yes. Mr. [unintelligible]?

VOICE 2: We recognize the model is certainly a challenge, yes.

AMT: Certainly a challenge US Democratic Representative Annette Barragan grilling pharmaceutical companies at a congressional hearing yesterday over the cost of insulin. It's worth remembering Canadians Frederick Banting and Charles Best sold the pat for insulin for one dollar, saying it belonged to the world. In the United States the price for treating type one diabetes with insulin has almost doubled in four short years, from 2900 dollars U.S. for a year supply in 2012, to more than 5700 dollars today. In Canada the situation isn't as dire but it is becoming increasingly difficult to afford. Kimberley Hanson lives with diabetes. She is also the executive director for Federal Affairs at Diabetes Canada. She's in our studio. Hello.

KIMBERLEY HANSON: Good morning.

AMT: Well what do you think when you hear news like that from the US?

KIMBERLEY HANSON: It's chilling to think about people dying in the United States because they are rationing or can't afford their insulin. It's a substance that if people have certain forms of diabetes they cannot live without. And the system is failing. People in the States. It's shocking to hear about.

AMT: Now one pharmaceutical company, Sanofi, did announce yesterday it would cut the cost of insulin for uninsured Americans to 99 dollars a month. What do you think of that?

KIMBERLEY HANSON: I think that those are steps in the right direction but I think that the fundamental problem that the United States needs to look at is the system that allowed the prices to soar the way that they did in the first place. And I think that sort of looking at the global way in which we arrive at the prices of medications and how we determine coverage is an issue that we also face here in Canada.

AMT: I was just going to ask you. What does a cost in Canada? Is everybody covered?

KIMBERLEY HANSON: Well absolutely not. It can cost a person living with diabetes up to 15000 dollars a year in out-of-pocket costs to manage their disease. And we know that because of that great cost at least 25 percent of people with diabetes report not being able to follow their prescribed treatment regimen. Those are really a patchwork of coverage available province to province to territory, and it varies a lot based on the person's level of income or whether they have supplemental insurance through their work. And it means that a lot of Canadians with diabetes are slipping through the cracks which is risking their health.

AMT: I've got a clip here that I'd like you to hear. This is from Tammy Maclaren whose daughter Courtney has Type One diabetes. This is what she told CBC health reporter Vik Adhopia about the rising cost of insulin and what it means for her 12 year old daughter.

SOUNDCLIP

We are very concerned now hearing the price is going up in The States for Insulin, because how much work you want while we pay over 800 dollars a month? How much more? For here, like I said, that's mortgage payment or a couple of car payments, or really good investment in my two girls education fund or in our own retirement fund, my husband and I. But no, it goes towards keeping Court alive.

AMT: So Kimberly it's not solely the cost of the actual Insulin, is it? You have to administer it. You need stuff.

KIMBERLEY HANSON: That's exactly right Anna, Maria. I often say in as wonderful and life saving as it is doesn't do you much good if you can't afford the syringes with which to administer it. And the reality is in Canada there is no coverage for the syringes, the alcohol swabs that are the most basic form of treatment. When you get into talking about testing for your blood glucose which you have to do as a person with diabetes in order to manage your disease.

AMT: Couple of times a day, right?

KIMBERLEY HANSON: At least. I mean often people with Type One like I have test more than 6 times a day and it costs a dollar each time. And then you know if you add an insulin pump coverage continuous glucose monitors, which are really the best form of therapy and are proven to protect people's health long-term, but they're prohibitively expensive and there is really very little insurance coverage available for them. So it's causing a lot of people in Canada to have to choose poor forms of management of their disease for purely economic reasons.

AMT: So there are Go Fund Me campaigns in the States. Are there Go Fund Me campaigns in Canada as well?

KIMBERLEY HANSON: Yes there are. I've seen some where people are willing to put their young child for example on an insulin pump that can give that child's so much more protection and flexibility in their day to day life, but their families are unable to afford them. I mean they can cost thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars a year to admit to run, to say nothing of the 8000 dollars it costs to buy them. So we really are concerned at Diabetes Canada and I am concerned as a person living with diabetes, to work to ensure that the patchwork of coverage that's available in Canada right now is tightened up is closed up so that no person with diabetes is having to choose between putting food on the table and caring for their disease.

AMT: Patrick because the provincial, right? Every province is different.

KIMBERLEY HANSON: Exactly and each province has different rules around each of the different components of diabetes care plan. And so it's really important as we think about closing those gaps to remember that as you said it's not only about the medications that people would be required to sustain in life, but it's also about the medical devices and supplies like blood glucose meters or syringes that help us to administer the care.

AMT: So Diabetes Canada, your organization, has found that 57 percent of Canadians have to adjust their treatment plan due to costs. What does that actually look like? What are they doing?

KIMBERLEY HANSON: Well some people are testing less frequently and testing their blood sugar less frequently then they are advised to. They're guessing at what their blood sugar might be and administering medications based on a gut feel which is dangerous. Some of them are taking less Insulin then they know they ought to in order to try to make it last a bit longer. Some of them are taking or medications fewer times a day or in lower doses than was prescribed because the costs are prohibitive.

AMT: Now yesterday the standing committee on health in Canada made eleven recommendations for a national diabetes strategy including exploring options for uniform coverage for diabetes related needs. And they released a statement saying, I'm quoting here: "A solution to provide Canadians with the medical supplies and equipment that they need to live with diabetes must be found". End quote. Are you confident they can do that?

KIMBERLEY HANSON: I am. I think that the health committee's report is tremendous. It is the product of an extremely detailed study that they did over the past year into the problems that Canadians with diabetes are facing in many areas. And their recommendation that we come up with an approach to reduce the costs and increase the availability of all of the medications devices and supplies that people with diabetes need is so important. And I think it really speaks to why their first recommendation is that Canada needs to implement a nationwide diabetes strategy that the diabetes community has developed called Diabetes 360, to help ensure that there are not these gaps in the system then people can fall into.

AMT: Kimberley Hanson thanks for your time today.

KIMBERLEY HANSON: Thank you.

AMT: Kimberley Hanson executive director of federal affairs for Diabetes Canada. She is in Ottawa. Well our Canadian Diabetes patients are pushing for better coverage for their expenses, in the United States patients are saying the situation is even more urgent. Gail Devor is a diabetes patient advocate from Colorado shes been living with Type One diabetes for 47 years. She testified before a congressional subcommittee earlier this month about what's at stake.

SOUNDCLIP

The relief we need right now. Before the discovery of insulin every child that had diabetes died. It's been almost 100 years since my heroes, Dr. Banting and Dr. Best, figured out that insulin would save our lives. When they sold their patents for one dollar each, they intended it would always be affordable and accessible. Children and adults are still dying and suffering from disabling complications because insulin is no longer affordable.

AMT: That is Gail Devor testifying before us congressional subcommittee earlier this month. Immaculada Hernandez is an assistant professor of pharmacy at the University of Pittsburgh and we've reached her at her home in Pittsburgh. Hello.

IMMACULADA HERNANDEZ: Hello. Good morning.

AMT: You were the lead author of a study published in January that looked at the main causes as prescription drug increases. What did you find out about the price of insulin? Why has it doubled between 2012 and 2016?

IMMACULADA HERNANDEZ: Well in the paper we tried to look at whether drug prices increase in the United States because [unintelligible] meaning new drugs coming to the market, versus year over year increase in drugs that have been around for a while. In the case of injectable brand names drugs, meaning drugs that are predictably [unintelligible] and are not taken orally but are injectables. We found that year over year increase in prices of drugs that have been around for a while but is [unintelligible]. Specialy Insulin was probably the culprit behind these increases that we found.

AMT: And it has to do with generics. And I want to play you a clip. There are researchers who call themselves bio hackers who are trying to take matters into their own hands. They've got the Open Insulin project in Oakland California and they want to develop the first freely available open protocol for insulin production. Listen to Anthony DeFranco.

SOUNDCLIP

We think that if there were thousands of manufacturers instead of just three then it would be much easier to reach many more people who needed the price would be much lower. Right now we are just finishing work on making slow acting Insulin, and were starting to try to figure out how to add a fast acting in sort of portfolio of things that were developing.

AMT: So, Immaculada Hernandes, what do you think of that? If they develop more of that free generic open market?

IMMACULADA HERNANDEZ: I think that definitely the lack of availability of generics is probably the main reason why prices of Insulin have increased so much in the last three years. I have a little bit of concern with people developing their own insulin. I think these Bio Hackers want to come up with the formula for how diabetic patients [unintelligible] Insulin. I'm a bit concerned of this because it is very important that insulin goes a strict quality control in the industries and facilities, and that's because as we know exactly that insulin is necessary to decrease the glucose level, but if the dose is incorrect, we also have a high risk of hypoglycemia, which is a very severe event coming with [unintelligible]. So I've think he might have a say in response to the very high insulin prices. We have to come up with several incentives and several initiatives to fix the problem.

AMT: Okay. Immaculada, we have to leave it there but thank you. Clearly a big problem in the United States. Worry in Canada as well. Immaculada Hernandez assistant professor of pharmacy at the University of Pittsburgh. This is The Current on CBC Radio One. The news is next and then we're back. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti.

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Years after fleeing war-torn Syria, this man learns what's left of his old home

Guests: Chris Reardon, Hani Al Moulia

AMT: Hello I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to The Current.

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AMT: Still to come Candida Auris is the name of the latest so-called superbug. And after a cluster of outbreaks in the New York area you may be hearing more about it in the news. It is a fungus that can potentially be fatal. It is difficult to detect it, it is resistant to drugs and disinfectants. So how much should we be worried about this especially in Canada? We're asking in half an hour. But first a letter from Homs.

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CHRIS REARDON: Dear Hani, I stopped by your house today but you weren't home. No one was home. Your parents weren't there to join us for tea. There was no sign of your brothers or sisters. Your neighbors were away too. I would have not but your front door is missing, not just the door but also the hinges and the frame that once secured into the wall. The floor was strewn with rubble. I hate to say it but the place was a wreck.

AMT: The place Hani's home is in Homs, Syria. Chris Reardon visited it just last month, or what's left of it. Chris works with the U.N. Refugee Agency that was just now reading a letter he wrote to his friend Hani Al Moulia. Chris and Hani met in Lebanon in 2015. Hani was living in a refugee camp in Lebanon. Chris was documenting the lives of displaced Syrians for the UNHCR. Over the years the two have kept in touch. So when Chris found himself in Homs, the devastated city where Hanie had grown up, he made a detour.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRIS REARDON: When it got to your house I stood in the entry way and gazed radion like a superhero with X-ray vision. The thought of that nerdy old ice breaker. If you could choose a superpower would you rather have the ability to see through walls or to fly? After what I've seen today, I will always choose to fly.

AMT: The house and most of the neighborhood had been deserted for years since 2012 but it wasn't last and just the unwarned your family had left behind when they sought refuge in the camp.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRIS REARDON: Even in its current state, Hani, your house is a lot nicer than that place where you were living when we first met five winters ago. Remember that makeshift shelter in Lebanon wrapped in plastic sheeting, with just the woodstove to keep you all warm. Your mother poured us tea and later we stood outside and looked at Syria, that snowy ridge so close we could have walked there in an hour or two.

AMT: Hani, his parents and five siblings ended up selling far from that snowy ridge into a bungalow in Regina in 2015. Hani has since moved to Toronto to study computer engineering and he's with me in our Toronto studio. Chris Reardon is joining us as well from Geneva where he is chief of multimedia content for the UNHCR. I want to say hi to you, but I want to let you to say hi to each other. Go ahead.

HANI AL MOULIA: Good afternoon Chris.

CHRIS REARDON: Good morning, Hani. How are you?

HANI AL MOULIA: Very good. Very good and fine thanks. It's really good to hear your voice.

CHRIS REARDON: It's so nice to hear yours.

AMT: To hear his voice Hani. What were you feeling just now listening to the letter that Chris wrote to you as he read it out?

HANI AL MOULIA: I was very emotional, mixed emotions and you know thinking about trying to map everything with memories. Well when I was reading the letter so I feel like I was walking there and see what what's been going on since I left. And it's really hard to imagine. I mean I just heard news but I haven't seen pictures before.

AMT: So Chris can you give us more of a picture? Can you take us there describe some of what you saw?

CHRIS REARDON: Sure. So Homs was one of the earliest and deadliest battlegrounds in the conflict and Hani's neighborhood was not spared either. You know my colleague dropped me off at the end of the street and walked along and there's grass growing up through the pavement. There were no cars parked anywhere. All of the houses were empty. The windows and doors were gone. The walls were collapsed. The roofs were collapsed. You know some parts were standing but nothing was unscathed and it was eerie. It was like a ghost town.

AMT: So Hani, what does it feel like to know that your home is in rubble?

HANI AL MOULIA: I was trying to forget. I mean this is the place where I grew up. But yeah I mean I can't- I can't really describe thinking about this. The idea of home, even the physical home, has changed after we lost everything. We don't really see it as you know as home. We just like remember ourselves. That that's our home. It's our memory but the home itself does really mean that much to us. Now faraway it's difficult to imagine that this place still exist. I remember the people, the memories but I can't really connect or reconnect with the place itself.

AMT: Chris, as you stood there what kind of emotions did you have standing in front of the family house?

CHRIS REARDON: It was profoundly uncomfortable. I mean as I was peering into their home I felt like I was witnessing the aftermath of a deeply personal tragedy. And I felt that I shouldn't be there, that I shouldn't be seeing this. Hani- I felt I had Hani's blessing. He had given me the location and knew I was going to try to go there. But you know here I was peeking at the wreckage of their lives. And it felt very unprofitable to me. It was also very unusual for me to go back to the home of a specific refugee. I've met many people living in exile after fleeing conflict or persecution and sometimes met people who have been able to go back home. But in this case I was going back to a home but Hani hasn't been able to go back to, and he hasn't set foot in that house for six or seven years. He's moved on with his life and I wasn't sure that he wanted to be dragged back into it.

AMT: It's almost emblematic, though, what so many Syrian families have gone through.

CHRIS REARDON: Absolutely. I mean while I was in Syria I was meeting with people who were trying to move back. You know people who had been displaced inside the country and had run out of money to live elsewhere, and as the conflict was winding down in some parts of the country were trying to go back to what was left of their homes. But they were finding rubble. They were finding no water or electricity, no jobs, and really struggling to get by.

AMT: Hani, I wonder if you can take us back and tell me what you remember about the last time you were in your family home.

HANI AL MOULIA: Last home was full of fear. We were just trying to find a place to survive and would also like to move to a safer place even in this city. But for me it was difficult with my age. I was almost 18 that time and I was preparing to go to university and we have that army duty in the country, that when you turned 18 you have to go, all men have to go and serve for the Army for two years. And that was really difficult for me to deal with under the circumstances at that time, because the regime wanted everyone to fight for them, and even wouldn't spare me, even with my vision.

AMT: You are visually impaired, you are legally blind. What's your condition?

HANI AL MOULIA: I see things in shape and also like for the dark and light, Idon't really- I can't define colours. It's blurry for the most part, unless they are very very close. We're talking 10 to 15 centimetres away from my eyes, if I want to read or do something.

AMT: So you make the point that it was a house of fear. Talk to me a little bit about what that's like in a place that was under siege, and you weren't able to see who's coming at you or what's in front of you.

HANI AL MOULIA: Even with such conflicts Syria is not actually a place where accessibility is a concept. People don't really pay that much attention to people with disability. You can't get that help. I was relying all my life on my family. I can't really remember a time where I walked out for a distance by myself to be honest. And with such conflict, I was sometimes a burden on my family because they had to do a lot of effort to keep me safe, because if they're running, if I had to leave immediately, in an emergency case I would need someone all the time with me.

AMT: So your mum wanted you to forget about university and get out of there.

HANI AL MOULIA: Yes, I mean it's you know death is coming.

AMT: What did you take with you when you left?

HANI AL MOULIA: Just my high school diploma. Actually it was really difficult when I saw the letter and also went back, I remembered a lot of things that I would have brought with me but the high school diploma was the most important thing that I even carried in precious and light.

AMT: Why?

HANI AL MOULIA: Because this is my future. Wherever I go I mean I've worked for this in such situations, difficult situations for 12 years, so it's very difficult just to not have a proof.

AMT: What else would you have taken with you in hindsight?

HANI AL MOULIA: Poetry and a lot of pictures.

AMT: Pictures that you took?

HANI AL MOULIA: Yes. For the family. Yes. I mean any kind of picture that remind me of home.

AMT: You arrived at a camp in Lebanon. What were those first days like for you?

HANI AL MOULIA: I mean at the beginning I thought it's going to be really temporary and I'm going back. It's not going to take that much. But that was not the case. But at the beginning it was that hard because, as I mentioned, I had some relatives who has already settled, if you want to say that.

AMT: Settled in the camp.

HANI AL MOULIA: Yes I mean, yes. It's really tricky to say that but I mean yes I got comfortable at least.

AMT: And Chris Reardon, that's where the two of you met.

CHRIS REARDON: That's right it was several winters ago and I remember Hani's had his parents pouring us tea and we sat around and talked, and talked about what their lives had been like back in Syria and what their lives and hardships were there, in that field in Lebanon.

AMT: Tell me a little bit more about your first impressions of Hani, Chris.

CHRIS REARDON: Hani, I mean as you listen to him I think you can already get a sense that he's someone that you just really want to connect with. I thought here's this creative young soul. He was trying to find his place in the world when the war turned his life upside down and his friends were scattered to the winds. And you know they would try to stay in touch by texting each other and he had told us about writing his poems and rap music with his friends, and he was taking photographs with his phone. He was just like I said a creative young soul who desperately wanted another chance at life.

AMT: And he was taking photographs. When you saw them what did you think?

CHRIS REARDON: We were doing a photography workshop in Lebanon and he was one of the participants. And so they were taking photographs and writing about what they were seeing. And Hani's work were really remarkable. And I think part of it is his creativity and part of it is literally the way he sees the world.

AMT: Well Hani, and talk to me a lot about how do you compose a photograph in the camera?

HANI AL MOULIA: Well the camera, when I carried the camera I had to deal the camera as a part of me, as my third eye or my eye to see the world. It gave me the chance to see things that I wouldn't be able actually to see in reality. That relationship actually gave me the chance to think of photos before taking them. That was the key. So I had to imagine thing, like how I want to see this and ask the camera to do so. Because for me when I started doing photography it was all about finding something to do, something that I’m passionate about and also I want to tell a story about the camp, about our current situation, about life in that kind of situation. So it was a need.

AMT: When you do that- Like can you describe a picture for me? What's one of your favorite pictures? Give us an example of what you've done.

HANI AL MOULIA: There was a picture that I took it through fire. There was a woman she was balling fire. When I was talking to her - and also like I was also trying to connect with people because I don't want to be seen as someone who was coming for a few hours and documenting. No I'm here. I wanted to do this because I feel it because I want to hear from you. And she was, while we were talking the fire was between us, and she told me how it's really burn more than the fire itself when she remembering that you know she had hot water, she had a family back home. And she just can’t imagine how things changed.

AMT: You know, Chris, it's always worth remembering huh, when you see pictures in refugee camps, we forget sometimes or maybe we don't make the connection enough that they are full of people who had homes and lived, not unlike the rest of us.

CHRIS REARDON: Yeah I think no one ever thinks they're going to become a refugee and once they do they often think it's going to be very temporary, and that in a matter of weeks they'll go back home. In some lucky cases that happened put in a great many it can drag on for years and years and years, jsut as Hani's case.

AMT: Well let's talk about that a little more. I want you to listen to something Hani.

SOUNDCLIP

HANI AL MOULIA: The timing here, it doesn't matter because we don't do anything. So, we dont have abated actions every day like a school, like the university. Our life is related with this is small camo, so we don’t care for the time. We are just living you know.

AMT: So that is one of the first documentaries that Chris's team made with you, Hani, as they followed you. When you listen to yourself there, where does that take you?

HANI AL MOULIA: Im thinking now right away of those people who are actually now suffering dealing of this kind of life. I was talking about having a normal life and if you can really define a normal life. It's very difficult for those people to do whatever they want to do a daily basis, and it's from school to any normal activity that someone in a stable place what they would do. Ask him what you want to do right now, and for the people in camps they wouldn't really have an answer.

AMT: And there's nowhere else to go.

HANI AL MOULIA: Nowhere.

AMT: I have another clip I want you to hear Hani.

SOUNDCLIP

HANI AL MOULIA: A year ago we applied for asylum to Canada. But we'd heard nothing since. Then, I get a phone call. It was the Canadian embassy. We're very glad to hear that. It's a big honor for me. They asked us to travel to Beirut. I can't remember the last time we live together as a family.

AMT: What was it like, Hani, to find out you could come to Canada?

HANI AL MOULIA: I was very happy. I mean having another chance, even a better chance, to rebuild your life was really- I was really happy and also felt the challenge. Because for me, to be honest, I was ready to come to Canada, but I was also like I needed to convince my family and also to give them an idea of the West and how it's going to be in Canada, because you know that comes with a lot of challenges. Yes, you're going but you have also to know a lot of things about this new place. But surely if all are willing to live in a country then we're going to have a very happy life. Every morning I think about still those who- the unlucky ones who didn't make it to such a better place.

AMT: Chris, do you remember hearing the day that you heard they were going to Canada?

CHRIS REARDON: I do. We'd been waiting for a word for quite some time and I was very very happy for them. But you know resettlement is a rare exception and globally less than half of one percent of refugees get resettled in any given year, and it's getting even more rare. So Hani and his family are among the very lucky ones. At the same time I think Canada is even luckier to have. So Im glad that they've made it.

AMT: Chris when you went to Homs, there were people going back. What were they telling you? How are they doing?

CHRIS REARDON: I remember one family in particular who had been displaced for six years inside Syria, moving around wherever they could afford to live and eventually depleted you know what savings. They had couldn't find work anymore and decided if they were going to be poor and homeless they might as well go back to whatever remained of the home that they fled. And so they came back a few months ago to Homs and found their apartment just filled with rubble. It had been looted previously and then was burned and some explosions and things and just rubble everywhere. And slowly, day by day, week by week, month by month they've been cleaning it out and replastering and trying to make it livable again. But you know it's still a challenge because they don't have- the infrastructure is not there. They don't have like I said the water and the electricity and all of that. They also don't have a community and a neighborhood. There's a few people back but mostly the buildings are empty. The streets are empty. The emotional scars of knowing what was there before and coming back to find such destruction. That must be very challenging. And then on top of it there's just the daily struggle to make ends meet and get by.

AMT: Hani have you ever wished you could go back?

HANI AL MOULIA: Under The Current circumstances, no I'm going back. Well you know that you were willing to sacrifice everything to ask for a change to good things changed in the country, and now you're going back and you realize the regime still there. Nothing had changed. Things got worse and I dont really see a solution or a peaceful life with the regime still in the lead.

AMT: It's a big thing to uproot the whole family in midlife and start a new life over. It's not an easy thing.

HANI AL MOULIA: Unexpected. This you know something that you know and really plan. I mean for a parent or a guardian it's very very difficult to be responsible when you can't really think clearly how to survive, how to lead family members to a place where they can see you, as a father. Sometimes even roles got flipped, because in the camp, my dad wasn't able to work. I was the only person with some skills to seem active in the family. And that was really hard for me to handle and also for him to see. We were both proud but we know exactly that this is not something we planned.

AMT: And you're at a university now. You're studying computer engineering. Tell me a little bit about that. Why that?

HANI AL MOULIA: For me I was inspired because of my eyes' vision. I wanted to be in that field and tried to find something for incurable. And from my own experience and perspective it's very challenging. It's very, I would say, predictable but I still want to go there and find something. Also I'm very interested in VR technology [unintelligible] .

AMT: Chris, as you listen to Hani, I mean you did follow him. You documented what his life was like. You're working in this field every day. Those of us who are far away from the reality of the refugee camps and the people who come over the borders in such desperation, what do we have to remember?

CHRIS REARDON: My hope, Anna Maria, is that we can remember that these are all people. They're individuals. They have families. They have friends. They have talents and skills and hopes and dreams. And I think we need to see that before we start seeing nationalities and political agendas and things like that. This can happen to anyone anywhere, maybe not any time, but sooner than many of us would imagine it. And I think in the case of Hani's life as he said, it was a more stable upbringing in a middle income country and he did have hopes and dreams of experiencing the world, but not in this way.

AMT: Hani, you're a Canadian citizen now, are you not?

HANI AL MOULIA: Almost there.

AMT: You're a permanent resident.

HANI AL MOULIA: Yes.

AMT: And so what do you want us to know about your experience in this country? What could we do better?

HANI AL MOULIA: I think it's very important to be aware of what's going on outside the borders. That's really important for the young people to know. I imagine that because when I was young I didn't really hear them much about what's going on, unless that I am doing it. So I didn't really get it from school or from the news. That's what's really going on outside of the country. What's going on with the world. And that's what I want everyone here in Canada to seek for the truth. Also nowadays it's very tricky to know exactly what's going on. So talk to more people that they had such experience and that would be very helpful to understand.

AMT: It's important to hear your voice. Thank you, Hani, and thank you, Chris. It's good to talk to you both.

CHRIS REARDON: Thank you Almeria. Great to speak with you. And you too Hani.

HANI AL MOULIA: As well.

AMT: Hani Al Moulia fled Syria as a refugee. He now lives in Toronto. He's a freelance photographer and student at Ryerson University. Chris Reardon is the chief of multimedia content for the U.N. Refugee Agency. He joined us from Geneva. Visit our website cbc.ca/thecurrent. We will link to the full letter that Chris wrote Hani from Homs. You'll be able to see some of Hani's photographs from his time in Lebanon. He was recognized for his photographs by the sea CJGE, the Canadian Journalists for Free Expression. Well stay with us. In our next half hour, children's art is hanging on the walls in a Vancouver Museum. Some very special children's art from indigenous residential school children from decades ago. We'll hear about the exhibit and hear from one of the artists in our next half hour. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti. This is The Current.

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A rare glimpse into the lives of residential school children

AMT: Hello I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

[Children singing in indigenous language].

AMT: When you walk into the gallery at the Museum of Vancouver the first thing you notice are the archival videos showing young indigenous children performing traditional dances. But the framed pieces of art on the wall are the real focus of the exhibit. It is artwork made by children from the 1930s to the 1970s. Not just any children. This is the art of Indigenous children in residential and day schools in British Columbia and Manitoba and it's a wonder the works have survived it all. Some teachers and First Nations organizations had held on to them for decades and when they were discovered 20 years ago they were given to the University of Victoria for safekeeping. That's where Andrea Walsh came across them. She is an associate professor of anthropology at UVic and she began the long process of tracing the history of the works by contacting the artists or the artists families. And with their permission to display the works, the exhibit exists now. It is called The Truth Is Here.

SOUNDCLIP

[Children singing in indigenous language]

ANDREA WALSH: When we stand in front of the work of a child who was doing something absolutely creative in such dire conditions, I think that we begin to see the residential school legacy through a different kind of lens. Perhaps it's one that is less based on fact and more on the truth of the child. Like Truth is such a much more nuanced human concept than fact. And although the facts are very important for us to never forget, the art allows us to think through these weren't just anonymous children in black and white photographs. They were beautiful minds, creative souls. They had great vision and great creativity. And when you look at the artwork you can see the knowledge that the kids carried with them through the school. So you see pictures of relatives. You see pictures of landscape and place. You see things like fishing boats. You see salmon. And when we talk to survivors about what those paintings meant to them as children and now that they are reconnected with them as elders they talk about their connection to place to people to their relatives to land.

MARK ATLEO: This piece of art is a- well I did a fishing net that's the same net I went out with my dad and my grandpas and uncles, and the same net that goes around the fish, catch all the fish. And the sockeye. It's a huge sockeye. That's why I loved fishing and sockeye was my favorite fish. And that's what it is. My name is [unintelligible].

ANDREA WALSH: Mark painted this when he was at the Alberni Indian residential school when he was probably about 9 or 10 years old.

MARK ATLEO: This is like looking out the glass window and you get behind there it's dark. That's what it is a happy place for us. Behind the darkness is all the abuses and all the things that were not very good. Like we couldn't even speak our language.

ANDREA WALSH: All of the collections that we see here are unusual. This is not a typical day at residential school. They demonstrate these very rare moments when kids were given the opportunity in school that they were brilliantly creative and they were terribly knowledgeable about who they were, where they were from, their language. The paintings and the artwork that are in this exhibition, in many cases they are the only thing that someone has from their childhood. And I am mindful of what a selfless act of giving they are doing by exhibiting their work and letting it go and being here for us to take up and listen to and look out.

MARK ATLEO: I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know how I did it. And I thought Oh. I just broke down like I'm kind of emotional now, just the way it felt.

ANDREA WALSH: Why it's so emotional do you think?

MARK ATLEO: I'm still here. And to know lots of my friends that are no longer here is pretty sad and I've seen them where they went and where they were, and when they left, it's pretty sad.

ANDREA WALSH: When the TRC, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission held its final event in the West Coast in Vancouver, they asked people to come and talk about what they had done around reconciliation. And we felt that rather than tell people the story of our effort to return these paintings to survivors we would return a painting to a survivor. And so in front of 1000 witnesses we returned [unintelligible] painting to him.

MARK ATLEO: When they returned it to me. Well what a relief, here is something like I say it just lifted everything off me and like I stood up again.

ANDREA WALSH: That moment was transformational because the painting when Mark talks about it when it came back to him it gave him a purpose that he hadn't envisioned before.

MARK ATLEO: It has appeal in effect for me personally. I'm painting and I never thought I was going to get into that [laughs].

ANDREA WALSH: So many of the survivors talk about the paintings returning to them as a significant part of their healing. And what I've heard and witnessed is that when the paintings came home to their parents or to their aunts or uncles, that they provided a way for the family to begin to talk about things that were just too painful to talk about. Just out of the blue the paintings became a vehicle through which stories started to be told.

MARK ATLEO: I never thought I'd be doing this talk and talk, talking to lots of schools to let them know what happened in residential school. It's not all good. Nothing was good in their essential school. That's what I want to see what way we were taken away. To this day I'm still trying to find out it's painful sometimes I cry. I cry I am not shame say some days I'll get emotional and cry.

ANDREA WALSH: Had it had a healing effect just to have this painting?

MARK ATLEO: Yes, yes, especially at home where they start crying they just [unintelligible]. That's what I've done in my life. I'm happy. It's good.

ANDREA WALSH: We often think of children as empty vessels into which we pour culture or we pour knowledge. And what these paintings and the artwork that's in this exhibition prove is that children carry a tremendous amount of knowledge and as citizens they have something to say. And at this point in our nation's history I think these paintings these are pieces of artwork compel us to stop and listen to what they are saying to us.

[Children singing in indigenous language]

AMT: The voices of Andrea Walsh and Mark Atleo. Andria Walsh is an associate professor of anthropology at the University of Victoria and the curator of The Truth Is Here: Creativity and Resilience in Children's Art from Indian Residential and Day Schools. The exhibit is on at the Museum of Vancouver. Mark Atleo was at the Alberni residential school on Vancouver Island for eight years. His painting of a sockeye salmon is part of the exhibit. If you check out our Twitter and Facebook pages you can see Frank Atleo's art and that of the other students as well. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti. You are listening to The Current.

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Infections like deadly Candida auris are part of wider drug-resistant bug 'crisis': doctor

Guests: Johanna Rhodes, Allison McGee

[clip] [/clip]

SOUNDCLIP

ANCHOR 1: In hospitals around the country, a growing concern.

ANCHOR 2: A mysterious infection traveling around the world has been placed on the CDC's urgent threat list.

ANCHOR 1: A fungus that has already infected at least 587 people in the U.S.

AMT: The fungus is Candida Auris, or C-Auris. And as you heard from those news reports, it is a growing concern because it's difficult to detect. It is potentially life threatening and stubbornly drug resistant. Since the case of a Japanese woman infected with C-Auris in her ear ten years ago the fungus has been reported in more than 30 countries around the globe, including Canada. The New York area has seen a cluster of infections. And as Dr. Scott Lorin of Brooklyn's Mt. Sinai hospital explained to NBC News, this superbug can be super invasive.

SOUNDCLIP

The 'aha' moment we had was when a patient died with it and we did cultures all over the room. We found that the Candidate Auris was everywhere. We found it from top to bottom, from the ceiling to the wall monitors to the artificial respirators to the palms to the bed to the floor.

AMT: Well that is a familiar scene for Joanna Rhodes. She is a genomic epidemiologist at Imperial College London. She got a call in 2015 from the Royal Brompton Hospital in London. At the time it was facing the largest known outbreak of C-Auris. Johannah Rhodes joins me from Swindon, England.

JOHANNA RHODES: Hello. Hi. Thanks for having me.

AMT: What was that call like? Tell us a little bit more about what the hospital was dealing with.

JOHANNA RHODES: At the time they'd had a few cases just before Christmas and then all of a sudden the number of cases just ramped up. It really increased rapidly and the doctors there had employed that outbreak measures that were in place and there were still new cases arising. And what was worrying was that there was drug resistance being seen to drugs that would be your typical first choice. So they didn't know how it was spreading and they didn't know what drugs to treat these patients with. And how this bug was resistant and they wanted to know where did it come from, how could they stop it.

AMT: So how did you respond? What did you do?

JOHANNA RHODES: So, I'm a genomic epidemiologist which means that I use by sequenced the genomes of things that infect humans. So I looked at using a new piece of technology which allowed me to sequence the Candida Auris from patients really quickly in under 48 hours. And this allowed me to confirm that it was a Candida Auris. So Candida Auris before or before 2013 was regularly misidentified as other kind of a species. And so could confirm that was Candida Auris. And I could also see what mutations were present in the genome that would make it resistant and which drugs it was resistant to. But I could also then see how spread from patient patients and actually the trick was that it wasn't necessarily patient to patient transmission. It was this persistence in the environment. [unintelligible] It is capable of surviving on fabric, on beds, on the curtains in beds, on bedside tables and on equipment as well, medical equipment. And even that you'd thought you'd sterilised, it was actually essentially resistant to the disinfectants that we'd commonly use in NHS hospitals.

AMT: So how did it get on the walls and the curtains and all over the place? How does that happen?

AMT: So basically, the average person could have Candida Auris on their skin and they would be termed colonized and it wouldn't cause an infection. But you know your skin contains bugs, bacteria or whatever and you're touching stuff all the time. You're touching tables, touching your face or touching your phone. So actually it's not that unreasonable to assume that these bugs get transferred to inanimate surfaces in the environment. It's just that Candida Auris is incredibly good at persisting and it kind of forms what we call a biofilm. And I kind of liken it to going into hibernation. It's like it puts on an Iron Man suits and it becomes super resilient to anything you throw at it. And it just meant that it could persist quite a while and it was resistant to the disinfectants that we used.

AMT: So someone who has a compromised immune system and a hospital would be vulnerable to it.

JOHANNA RHODES: Exactly. So it's really important that the people who are infected were already in hospital for a reason. And whether that was an they already had an infection from something else or they're undergoing treatment for a condition they then acquired Candida Auris. Healthcare professionals and people visiting patients in hospital aren't going to become sick from Candida Auris because they're the ones that who are the healthier.

AMT: So what does it look like and how does it behave once it's in the body?

JOHANNA RHODES: So it really depends. So as I said you know it could exist on the skin which is fine, but it is of course a problem when it gets into your bloodstream and it causes a bloodstream infection. And if you're in hospital chances are you've got an I.V. line or a cannula to administer fluids and drugs. And if the Candida Auris can get in through those sites, then that's when it causes the bloodstream infection and it can be quite serious. And as the previous doctor said it's quite invasive. Depending where it enters the body. It can cause different severity in infection.

AMT: And I'm also reading that there were four distinct strains of this fungus that sort of appeared to pop up in different parts of the world at roughly the same time. What's that about?

JOHANNA RHODES: So it was a piece of research from the CDC in Atlanta and they found that there were these four strains that appeared simultaneously in South Asia, South Africa, South America. And it was unprecedented for something to pop up simultaneously on different continents. But what was also really interesting is that there were drug resistant but the mechanism of drug resistance was different. So you were talking about something that is incredibly fit - for want of a better word. You know it's evolved to be an incredibly successful bug.

AMT: How concerned are you by this?

JOHANNA RHODES: We are concerned in terms of the risk to people who are in hospital. But for people on the streets, just walking down the street you're not going to acquire it like with the common cold. So I think it's important to sensationalize this and say it's going to be the next pandemic that's going to hit humanity. It's a concern for people who are in hospital from the drug resistance point of view and also its ability to persist. But the healthcare professionals in hospitals around the globe have since and released best practices on how to locate the Candida Auris and how to deal with it. So when cases have cropped up now, they usually contain pretty quickly. One of the good things that happened because of the outbreaks that happened is that people are looking into the disinfectant that will kill Candida Auris and also new drugs as well which is a real positive step.

AMT: OK well we'll leave it there. Dr. Rhodes thanks for your time.

JOHANNA RHODES: Thank you very much.

AMT: That is Johanna Rhodes genomic epidemiologist at Imperial College London. We reached her in Swindon, England. Well according to the Public Health Agency of Canada there have been 19 cases of Canada Auris in this country. Allison McGeer as a physician at Sinai health system. She is also a principal investigator of the Toronto Invasive Bacterial Diseases Network and she is in our Toronto studio. Hello.

ALLISON MCGEE: Good morning.

AMT: Toronto Invasive Bacterial Diseases Network, this is right up your alley then.

ALLISON MCGEE: Indeed it is.

AMT: So the first confirmed case in Canada was 2017?

ALLISON MCGEE: The first confirmed multi-drug resistant case was 2017. People have actually identified other cases of this fungus, another very interesting question, that are actually susceptible to all of the anti-fungals, and they weren't recognized as Candida Auris at the time. This was four or five years ago. But retrospectively people have gone back and looked at all of the unidentified fungus and said where is this coming from? And we do have some susceptible [unintelligible] that we've seen in Canada. We still don't know where they came from, or exactly what they are, but the first multi-drug resistant one was a patient who had come from India to a hospital in Canada in 2017.

AMT: And was that patient from India, had that patient been in a hospital in India?

ALLISON MCGEE: Yes.

AMT: And what was it, medical tourism, do you know?

ALLISON MCGEE: I don't know.

AMT: Okay. So what happened to that patient?

ALLISON MCGEE: The patient actually was not ill with this Candida, they detected it in a swab of the skin. And as far as I know, the patient had other serious medical problems, but did not get sick from the Candida Auris.

AMT: So how and where has this fungus been identified in Canada?

ALLISON MCGEE: So it's been identified in a number of provinces, not one location. As far as we can tell from both the patients who have been identified and the studies that have been done, most of the multi-drug resistant cases are people who have been hospitalized in countries where we know this bug is endemic in hospitals. So they've either had a car accident while on holiday there, or they live there part time and they've been hospitalized there, and then come back to Canada and been hospitalized here. And when they come to hospital here, either they've had an infection or they've been colonized with this strain. So they're imported cases of one of those four different strains that you were talking about from different countries. We don't have evidence at the moment that it's appeared de novo in Canada, but there's a lot we don't know about the evolution of the strain and where it's coming from. And a lot of work we still need to do.

AMT: So the majority of these cases are in B.C. and Ontario.

AMT: That's correct.

AMT: And is it mandatory for hospitals to report?

ALLISON MCGEE: Not at the moment. So when a province decides that a disease needs to be reportable, it's based on the urgency of the threat and the number of cases and a number of things about its epidemiology. So I think we can expect that Canada Auris will become reportable in many provinces in the next few years. But it's actually quite difficult in Ontario for instance to make a disease reportable .it's a long process. One of our challenges with anti-microbial is this is going forward is actually that we we need to take those processes which are complicated and make them simpler for anti-microbial resistance so that we can respond to it better, because the resistance is coming at us fast enough now that we need to start building flexibility into our responses so that we can be as fast as the bugs are.

AMT: And so what does this fungus do to you? There have been cases where people- it's potentially life-threatening, so not everybody dies, but like what does it actually do to you?

ALLISON MCGEE: So it's really interesting, it's hard to describe, if you haven't been in the hospital and been a patient, it's hard to describe the infections. But when people who are very ill with cancer or a number of other immuno-compromising diseases come into the hospital, they need medication that is given through large intravenous lines. What that means functionally, is it's a big plastic tube that goes from your skin into the centre of your bloodstream. And that plastic tube of course provides access for bacteria and fungi to go down the plastic tube, okay, it's a pathway into the bloodstream. Once this fungus gets into your bloodstream. Your blood obviously is a really good place for microbes to grow.

AMT: Because it's moving all over your body.

ALLISON MCGEE: Lots of nutrition. And it moves all over your body. And it can. So the fact that it's in your bloodstream makes you sick. It's a foreigner in your system, your body fights it, you get sick. But it can also settle out in different places. So the bloodstream can take it anywhere, okay, to your brain, onto your heart valves. And once it's set up there and starts to grow then it starts to cause tissue damage and that makes you more ill.

AMT: That's part of the problem as well, because you can't really predict what it might do, it depends on the patient really.

ALLISON MCGEE: That is correct yes.

AMT: And so how worried are you about this?

ALLISON MCGEE: Well you know, there is a reason that anti-microbial resistance was the third health issue that has ever been at the United Nations. Anti-microbial resistance is this slow-moving crisis. So when you talk about it, you know we frame it, as Dr. Rose just did, as: we don't want people to panic about it. This is not a crisis, but the truth is it is a crisis. It is, particularly for healthcare, going to fundamentally alter how we can take care of patients in the hospital. So we have to find a way of being able to say: this is a crisis, we need to respond urgently and quickly and effectively for the protection of the population in the future. At the same time as we say: no, you don't need to melt down and worry that you're going to die tomorrow of some anti-microbial resistant infection. We're really having trouble finding the line that says that this is critically important, resistance is a huge problem and very difficult to respond to, at the same time as no, there is no need to panic about it.

AMT: I mean you've seen this slow march, eh? Like this is the other big thing, that you've seen it coming and we don't want to panic at the same time we need to maybe look at how we deal with all sorts of illness so that we don't get to the point where we're immune to so many drugs.

ALLISON MCGEE: Yes, well, you know I think there's good news and bad news. The good news is that we're talking about Candida Auris when there are 19 patients in Canada. So that means we are responding to it. We're recognizing the resistance. We're much faster and much more able and ready to talk and respond to it than we were with previous issues with anti-microbial resistance. So the good news is we are getting better. The bad news is the bugs are still out there and they want to survive our antibiotics. And so they will continually escalate and we need to be able to escalate our response.

AMT: OK well thanks for coming in. Glad you're on it. Dr. Allison McGeer is a physician at the Sinai Health System. She is the principal investigator of the Toronto Invasive Bacterial Diseases Network. That is our program for today's. Stay with Radio One for Q. Actor David Harbour joins Tom Power. He is starring the movie Hellboy that's what they're talking about. Now earlier we heard some of the archival music playing at the Museum of Vancouver exhibit. The truth is here, featuring the artwork of Indigenous children who were attending residential and day schools between the thirties and the seventies. We're going to leave you with a full story of that archival tape from the curator Andrea Walsh. Here she is. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti thank you for listening to The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

ANDREA WALSH: In May of 1941 the Inkameep day school children were invited to open Thunderbird Park, the provincial museum. And they had to get permission from the federal government to leave the reserve. There was a lot that went into having these kids accept this opportunity to perform their Okanagan plays as part of the opening Thunderbird Park.

[Sound: Children singing]

ANDREA WALSH: In the exhibition, we have these two panels where it depicts the children's memories of their trip to Victoria on that memorable long weekend. And all of these drawings are captioned. Getting on the boat in Vancouver, on the sea, they ride in a taxi in Victoria. And you wouldn't really think that that's such a big deal, but at the time there was only one car on the reserve. And then the second to last drawing and the panel is the kids performing at Thunderbird Park. And this is actually the footage that we have in the exhibition, depicts them doing their plays.

[Sounds: Children singing]

ANDREA WALSH: But it's the final piece here where it says broadcasting. That's really kind of neat because they recorded the songs that they sang that weekend at the CVR radio station in Vancouver on their way back.

[Sound: Anchor presenting children singing].

ANDREA WALSH: Those songs made it into the BBC archive and we found the songs from 1941 and so through the exhibition the audio that you hear is actually of the Inkameet children singing their songs.

[Sound: Children singing]

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