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The Current Transcript for March 15, 2019

Host: Laura Lynch

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

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This is one of New Zealand's darkest days. Clearly what has happened here is an extraordinary end and precedented act of violence.

LAURA LYNCH: New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Arden in the wake of attacks on two mosques in Christchurch that has left dozens dead and injured. The shootings happened as Muslims gathered for Friday prayers in a nation where gun violence is rare. We start this morning in New Zealand as a country in shock struggled to understand how and why this happened. After that the world's young people go on strike.

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Every generation just keeps putting it off but we're in a crisis right now. We can't keep putting it off. We need to take dramatic action.

LL: They can't vote yet but young people fearing the effects of climate change are walking out of school today. Global Day of Action will push the older generation to take action. And then:

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Any time you get a person running, it means you're gonna get him pretty soon. Same with Mullah Omar, it's just a matter of time.

LL: That is former U.S. President George W. Bush back in 2002 assuring the world that Mullah Omar would be caught but the leader of the Taliban and alley of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden eluded capture after coalition troops invaded Afghanistan in 2001. Now a new book claims that in fact Mullah Omar lived right under the nose of U.S. military for years before his death in 2013. We'll speak with the father who says it raises new questions as Americans negotiate a potential peace pact with the Taliban of today. I'm Laura Lynch and you're listening to the Friday edition of The Current.

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Suspect live-streamed New Zealand mosque shootings 'to spark a race war': analyst

Guests: Loga Church, Ziad Blisset, Sajjan Gohel

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[Sirens in background]

People started rushing out, running out and the door was closing. And the guys [unintelligible] started shooting them. I knew I had no chance. There was a bench, I just lied on with my half body under the bench and my legs are up, pretending to stop my breath and he's [unintelligible] seven times. And then he starts bang bang bang. When the bullets finished then he starts sending [unintelligible]. The mosque there are few compartments so he went to all different compartment and made sure [unintelligible].

LL: An eye witness to the shootings at the Al Nour mosque in Christchurch New Zealand. The gunman as you just heard reloading his weapon again and again spraying bullets among the worshipers gathered for Friday prayers. One man has been charged and it seems the shooter life stream that leased part of his deadly actions in a post since removed by Facebook, along with a manifesto that referenced Norwegian mass killer Anders Breivik among others. Logan Church is a reporter with Radio New Zealand and we have reached him in Christchurch. Hello.

LOGAN CHURCH: Good evening.

LL: Bring us up to speed on what's happened.

LOGAN CHURCH: Yes no about this afternoon, 1:40, a gunman opened fire on two mosques in Christchurch. Now these mosques were located relatively centrally. One beside Hagley Park which is a major park in the center of Christchurch, and another in [unintelligible] then was about 1:40 this afternoon close a time when a lot of the people inside these mosques were getting ready to pray. Not long after we actually went down to the mosque near Hagley Park as people were starting to stumble out. We spoke to many people outside that mosque who had essentially run or head for their lives. Some people we spoke to did not have shoes, their hands were covered in blood. One man we spoke to he said jumped straight out of the window. He was fortunate to be beside a window inside the mosque when he feared gunshots. He jumped down and called 111, our emergency services, and he sat there hiding desperately, trying to avoid being shot as he heard gunfire rain around his mosque for 15 minutes. Afterwards he jumped back inside and saw many people lying on the ground. He assumed they were dead in there. As of the last few hours it's been confirmed that 49 people had died, 41 at that mosque beside Hagley Park, seven at the other mosque and one at the main Christchurch hospital where 48 patients are still being treated for gunshot wounds.

LL: Did any of the gunman say anything?

LOGAN CHURCH: No wonder I spoke to the gunman say anything. They just described the absolutely horrible sounds of that gun, again and agian and again. Throughout parts of the city we also spoke to people who were out and about on their daily business and they heard those gunshots. And in Christchurch- to give you an idea, gun violence in New Zealand does not really a thing, especially not at this level. So a lot of people I spoke to assume that could have been something else of not the horrible reality it turned out to be.

LL: Soon after this though police took action and telling all mosques in New Zealand did sat down until further notice. Why was that?

LOGAN CHURCH: Absolutely. Well the police were not entirely sure how large this attack was. It was very clear early on that multiple mosques were being hit, those two mosques I detailed earlier. So the police in New Zealand were not taking any chances and made sure that all mosques - especially in the South Island, but we also have mosques up on the North Island - being cordoned off, shut down, locked down rather and keep say-- It's not just mosques also. During this time almost all of Christchurch city was on lockdown. All of the stores, most of the central business district, much of the hospital. People have been told to stay away from the hospital and armed police were guarding that facility as ambulances raced backwards and forwards repeatedly for hours transporting people. So truly a terrifying situation for people, not just in Christchurch but all around New Zealand.

LL: Now there have been arrests but police are saying that none of these people that they are looking at were ever on their radar. Was there any sense in New Zealand that there was anti-Moslim sentiments? Had any previous actions been taken against masques?

LOGAN CHURCH: Not at all we were listening to some media stand ups by the police earlier today and they said they have absolutely no idea this was coming. There was [unintelligible] earlier today that one of the people involved might have been Australian and the Australian prime minister has also stated that he's shocked about these events here in New Zealand. Actually for the first time in New Zealand's history the prime minister has raised the [unintelligible] watch from low to high. That's it's never ever happened in New Zealand's history. It just reflects the gravity of what's gone on here in Christchurch.

LL: As you say you’re coming out toward Saturday morning. What is the mood like in the country right now?

LOGAN CHURCH: Terror to be honest with you, but also hope as well. Even this afternoon we've seen our communities come together in the most spectacular ways outside this mosque, beside Hagley Avenue, we saw people coming down with flowers, with Silver Ferns which is one of the symbols of New Zealand just to show support for our Muslim brothers and sisters in New Zealand.

LL: Logan, thank you very much for your time and take care.

LOGAN CHURCH: Thank you.

LL: Logan Church is a reporter with Radio New Zealand. We reached him in Christchurch. Zaid Blisset is the president of the Muslim Association of Marlborough and Blenham, that's about 300 kilometres from Christchurch and that's where we reached him today.

LL: Hello.

ZAID BLISSET: Hi how are you.

LL: I'm fine thank you. Can you please tell me what is your reaction to the news today?

ZAID BLISSET: Horror. Devastation. Complete complete utter- complete-- not being able to take it in. This is New Zealand. This is not the way we are. This is not who we are. A lot of these people in the mosque would have been immigrants, refugees from Syria, Iran, Afghanistan coming here to live a peaceful life, to get away from violence. And then this happens.

LL: Can you tell me some more about these two mosques that were targeted?

ZAID BLISSET: Well the Christchurch Mosque, the main one, until a few years ago it was the most southern most mosques in the world. It was one of the oldest mosques in New Zealand has been for quite a long time and generations of Muslims have grown up and gone there.

LL: Did you know anyone who was a victim of the shootings?

ZAID BLISSET: Yes I know a lot of people that were there, yes, and I just don’t know whether they are the ones that died or whether they are the ones that are injured or ones that survived. I just have no idea at this time.

LL: How did you find out about these shootings?

ZAID BLISSET: I went to our community center for our Friday prayers. We keep them short because we have to go back to work. I came back home about two o'clock or just after two and there was a text run from FIANZ in Wellington. FIANZ is the Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand and it was a text to me said up to 50 people shot in mosque in Christchurch. I thought it was a crude joke at first. I called the local police here and they didn't know anything. I tried to find some sort of information and turn the TV on, there was breaking news. It was true. Still in shock. My family is in shock. My wife's in shock. Friends are in shock.

LL: I am so sorry you're having to go through this. I am wondering though has there been a history of threats or violence against Muslims in New Zealand before this?

ZAID BLISSET: No not as far as I'm aware of. I mean in New Zealand Muslims are members of parliament, doctors, dentists, workers throughout the whole society. It's not like everybody here on the dole, you know, it's a hardworking community with mortgages, trying to get kids educated, build a new life for themselves. It's just-- this is just totally-- I don't understand this kind of hatred. That's not Zealand is. I've had a house full of people visiting me. Christians, Baha’i people, atheists, all coming asking what they can do for us. And one of the Anglican Church of England ministers wants to set up a meeting for everybody on Sunday night for every boy to gather in a town square and have some sort of service.

LL: Given everything that's happened, how should you Zealand react to this? What should the country do?

ZAID BLISSET: Well I'm not sure there's a great wellspring of good people of support in the Muslim community. I would say that the SIS, the security services, should concentrate on why [unintelligible] terror threats. Since 9/11 the SIS in New Zealand was concentrated on the possibility of Muslim threats, and I think they've ignored the other kind of threat, the other kind of people who are terrorists.

LL: I'm wondering going forward, thought, and I know we are just in the earliest hours of this, how the Muslim community in New Zealand will heal?

ZAID BLISSET: Well it's just happened so you know I've had phone calls from all over New Zealand from Muslims who I know, and they just all the same as me They are just expressing shock and disbelief. I don't know. I'm just stunned I'm not thinking straight.

LL: I understand. Mr. Blisset said I understand. Again my condolences for the loss of friends and the people you know.

ZAID BLISSET: I appreciate that.

LL: All right. Thank you.

ZAID BLISSET: Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate it really. Bye bye.

LL: Zaid Blisset is the president of the Muslim Association of Marlborough and Blenham. That's three hundred kilometres from Christchurch. Now a man who has claimed responsibility for the shootings self. As part of a White Nationalist Movement, writing a manifesto where he described himself as an "ethno nationalist eco fascist" and referencing other mass shooters including Alexander Bissonnette who killed six people at a Quebec City mosque two years ago, along with Anders Breivik the Norwegian forayed extremist who killed 77 people in 2011. For a look at how right wing extremism played out in today's shooting we've reached Sajjan Gohel. He is the international security director with the Asia-Pacific Foundation and he joins us from London, England. Hello.

SAJJAN GOHEL: Good to be with you.

LL: Tell me first of all what is your reaction to the events in New Zealand?

SAJJAN GOHEL: This was a horrific depraved attack. It was cold, calculating, coordinated. It was planned specifically to target members of the Muslim community especially during Friday prayers. This individual had planned it well in advance. He knew where the locations where. He probably did reconnaissance. He was well armed. And the most disturbing angle also is the fact that he filmed the attack. It was broadcast. It was streamed on social media platforms. He didn't just want it to be reported. He wanted the attack to be visualized. And that is a disturbing dynamic now that we are witnessing on terrorism, not just by the far right, but by jihadist groups too.

LL: Now we're told that Facebook has taken it down.

SAJJAN GOHEL: It's good that it's been taken down but others have now potentially managed to get hold of it, and it's very important that all social media platforms prevent this oxygen of publicity and propaganda that this individual wanted. It's very important that it doesn't get aired because even though it's now impossible to bring back those that have been killed, it's equally significant to prevent this incident from gaining further traction and notoriety which is what this individual wanted.

LL: Well tell me then what your concerns are about how it could be used if indeed it continues to live online?

SAJJAN GOHEL: Well this individual wanted to spark a race war. That was the primary purpose of his very depraved, warped manifesto that's been released on social media platforms talk specifically about instigating and inciting the Muslim community to react, to carry out reprisal attacks. And that was the purpose of what he is initiated, was not just to kill people but to then try and provoke. And then tensions can spiral out of control. You are talking about a very dangerous situation, not just in New Zealand but globally. Because jihadist groups like Al Qaida and east this will also try and use this for propaganda as well, to try and show that the West is anti-Muslim. So there are so many different elements that could play out. The authorities are going to have to handle this very carefully, not just in New Zealand but globally.

LL: Now this investigation is still under way as you and I are speaking and you mentioned the manifesto that was also published online in the name of a gentleman who identifies himself as Brenton Tarrant an Australian. In that manifesto he describes himself as someone who doesn't have higher education. He said nothing in universities particularly interested him. But he said he had a normal upbringing, although he lived in a low income family. How does that fit into what you know about what are normal or typical profiles of those who get involved in these kinds of activities?

SAJJAN GOHEL: Well the far right tends to prey on people with low socio economic backgrounds. They feel they're vulnerable, that they're more easier to exploit. And certainly this individual fits into that typology. His manifesto also seems to be written almost in the form of a Q&A, that he is asking and answering questions to himself. This individual possibly was being groomed online, and this is something that the New Zealand authorities will now have to track back in coordination with the Australians because there does seem to be a connection to Australia. How was this person recruited? Where was he recruited? Was he communicating on the dark web? Was he using encrypted messaging? Who gave him the guidance of where to target these mosques? Where did he obtain those weapons? How did he put together those IED? Lots of different aspects involved in this.

LL: Yes because there is word that there were explosive devices that were attached to cars as well. Now the other thing that I want to ask though is that police are probably asking themselves as they say he was not on their radar.

SAJJAN GOHEL: Well the current statement by the authorities seems to suggest he wasn't on the radar, but tracking back the New Zealand authorities in conjunction with their counterparts in Australia may end up finding fragments, bits of pieces of information with the benefit of hindsight where this individual may have espoused radical views on forums online, or some activity where he would have come across the radar but nothing to suggest that he was going to carry out something of this depraved nature that Christchurch has tragically witnessed.

LL: It is interesting though the New Zealand Muslim leader that we spoke to just before you suggested that maybe he wasn't on the radar because the police weren't paying attention to these kinds of far right activities, focusing more on terrorism suspects on the other side of the spectrum, on the Muslim side.

SAJJAN GOHEL: Well certainly. There is that aspect of that. People believe that the far right didn't get as much attention as the jihadist groups. But I would actually argue that the authorities in the Five Eyes countries New Zealand, Australia, Britain, Canada and America have all been focusing increasingly on the far right in the last few years.

LL: Mr. Gohel we will leave it there. Thank you for your time.

SAJJAN GOHEL: My pleasure, good talking to you.

LL: Sajjan Gohel is the international security director with the Asia Pacific Foundation. He was in London, England. And here is New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern at a press conference after the masked shootings.

SOUNDCLIP

We New Zealand we were not a target because we are a safe harbor for those who hate. We were not chosen for this act of violence because we condone racism, because we're an enclave for extremism. We were chosen for the very fact that we are none of these things, because we represent diversity, kindness, compassion, a home for those who share our values, refuge for those who need it. And those values, I can assure you I will not and cannot be shaken by this attack. We are a proud nation of more than 200 ethnicities, 160 languages and amongst our diversity we share common values, and the one we place the currency on right now is our compassion and the support for the community of those horrifically afflicted by this tragedy. And secondly, the strongest possible condemnation of the ideology of the people who did this: You may have chosen us but we utterly reject and condemn you.

LL: That is New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on Christchurch mass shootings. The CBC News is next and then cutting class for climate change. Young people around the world are walking out of school today to get their elders to pay attention to the need to save the planet. Im Laura Lynch and you're listening to the Friday edition of The Current.

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Ignoring climate change is like 'putting off homework,' says teen in School Strike for Climate

Guests: Sophia Mathur, Joe Crabtree, Rebecca Hamilton, Aditi Narayanan

LL: Hello I'm Laura Lynch and you're listening to the Friday edition of The Current.

[Music: Theme]

LL: Still to come, the U.S. hunted Mullah Omar for years. As a target, he was probably second only to Usama Bin Laden, but a provocative new book makes the case that the Taliban leader lived out his last days right under the noses of Americans near major U.S. military base. My conversation with the author in half an hour. But first on strike over climate change inaction.

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Politicians and the people in power have gotten away with not doing anything to fight climate crisis. But we will make sure that they will not get away with it any longer. We will continue to school strike until they do something.

[Cheers]

LL: That is Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg at a Hamburg rally earlier this month. The 16 year old started weekly Fridays for future protests and they've been growing ever since. Greta Thunberg's efforts were recognized this week as she was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. And today kids around the globe are taking up her call to action by cutting class. It's called the Schools Strike for Climate and students from more than 40 countries are expected to join in. We've rounded up a panel of teenagers from Canada, the U.S. and the U.K. and they'll join us in a moment. But first Sophia Mathur is 11 years old from Sudbury Ontario. She was one of the first kids in Canada to start a Fridays for Future climate protest and she joined me in our Toronto studio. Good morning.

SOPHIA MATHUR: Hello.

LL: Hi. First of all what did you think when you heard that Greta, who's just four years older than you, had been nominated for a Nobel Prize?

SOPHIA MATHUR: I think it was just amazing. I think she deserves it.

LL: Why?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Because she just has such amazing words. She started this really big movement. I think she does deserves it basically.

LL: So tell me why you're taking part in the school strike for climate?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Well I want a future and I can vote for the next two elections. So I started to strike in solidarity with Greta cause she said that if adults don't give a damn for my future I won't either. And I thought that was really great.

LL: And what did your parents say to you when you told them that you actually wanted to miss school to take part in the protest?

SOPHIA MATHUR: My mom is somewhat fine with it because we as a family have always had a climate change as a conversation. So she's basically it was a good idea.

LL: What did she say to you?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Maybe.

LL: [Laughs] She thought it was a good idea but maybe. What brought her around to saying yes?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Well I went lobbying on Parliament Hill about climate change, obviously, and I guess kind of changed your mind because she realized how much I actually cared about this.

LL: When you started talking about this idea of striking what more did your friends say to you?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Some of them want to join. They were actually trying to beg their parents to join but their parents weren't really sure if they wanted their kids to miss school.

LL: Did any of them say 'I'm in. I'm doing this with you'?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Yes. Two at first and now growing bigger as a group in striking and now all my friends are striking with me.

LL: And their parents are all on board I guess.

SOPHIA MATHUR: Yes.

LL: When you think about climate change, Sophia, what is it that you actually think about?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Dying. Because I think it's just going to be such a big catastrophe if we don't do anything, because climate change is going to cause droughts, heat waves, hurricanes, tornadoes and that's going to affect people's lives. I don't understand why we're not doing anything.

LL: Do you think about this a lot?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Yes I think about it, not all the time, but with a strike I always speak like I mean it because I feel like if I don’t do anything then our lives are are gone.

LL: What do you say to the people of my generation who you feel haven't done enough for anything at all?

SOPHIA MATHUR: You need to listen to the IPCC the Paris Agreement, the Nobel Prize economist, they're experts. You say climate change is not real when people are saying that it's real, people that have studied this and know all about it.

LL: You're 11 years old. Most kids who are 11 years old should be having fun and not worrying about what's going on around them. Why do you feel this is important for you to do?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Because our lives are at risk and I'm just going to say that striking is somewhat fun. It's fun to interact with people and have them tell their stories to me, how they got affected by climate change.

LL: Is that what you're planning to do, have conversations?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Yes.

LL: What would you say to people who would maybe be a little bit skeptical and saying, well, she's just taking a day off school?

LL: Well why not? This is the only thing I can do. I can't vote. I am too young to vote. So striking from school, like many of us say, is the only thing we can really do instead of sitting at home and doing nothing.

LL: What do you think could be the best thing that could possibly happen after you all go out on strike?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Having politicians going out there, adults, caring adults, not complaining and starting you'll listen to us and just hearing us and listening to us and starting to act.

LL: How hopeful are you that what's going to happen?

SOPHIA MATHUR: Really helpful.

LL: Well I thank you for your time. I hope everything goes well for you Sophia.

SOPHIA MATHUR: Thank you.

LL: That was 11 year old Sophia Mathur. She is from Sudbury Ontario but she was with us in our Toronto studio. Now I want to bring on a panel of teenagers who are also taking part in the strike. Joe Crabtree is 15 years old and he is in London, England. Aditi Narayanan is 16. She's in Phoenix, Arizona and in Vancouver I'm joined by 16 year old Rebecca Hamilton. Hello all of you.

GUESTS: Hi.

LL: Rebecca Let's start with you. Why are you taking part in the strike in Vancouver?

REBECCA HAMILTON: I do think part in the strike because we are in a crisis right now, the climate crisis, and the world isn't acting with the urgency and with the scale that this needs. By striking from school and temporarily putting aside our normal lives we're setting an example of urgency that we demand all levels of government follow.

LL: And Joe what about you?what inspired you to take part?

JOE CRABTREE: Well it was striking because I can no longer watch our planet be destroyed by politicians. I think this is the last resort and that's why I am striking today.

LL: And Aditi, what made you think, down there in Phoenix Arizona, I want to participate in a protest over climate change?

ADITI NARAYANAN: So a lot of people think climate change is a distant that you know, melts down the glaciers, and that's not their problem. That's the thing that's happening thousands of miles away from that. But I don't know how much you all know about Arizona but it's a very very very hot state. I'm trying to do Celsius calculations in my head. But we went from 48 as our average over the summer to like in the 50s Celsius. So it's we've seen the summers get hotter and hotter and we've seen how drought has been an issue in our state and how water conservation is another huge issue on the ballot. In addition we're not talking advantage of the heat by using solar power and solar energy. So I'm thinking part of the story to encourage and to hold my representatives accountable to show them how they should be fighting for their community.

LL: And, Aditi, when it gets up to that high a temperature, how does that affect you in your day to day life?

ADITI NARAYANAN: Sure. It's hard to go outside definitely, and I ran cross country during that season because I'm crazy like that. It's just so hot and it can motivate a lot of people from going out, .from doing things it can keep a lot of people inside. In addition it also disproportionately affects a lot of poor communities we have. For example closer to like South Phoenix or to [unintelligible] cities that are less funded and stuff like that. They definitely have less trees, less nature and wildlife to protect them from that. And they have more industrial things in the air and more smoke. So it definitely affects them worse it makes the air quality that they breathe much worse. So I would say it definitely directly impacts a lot of people around me.

LL: I want to play a clip for all of you now, and this is from a young woman in Baluchistan, Pakistan. Her name is Sovaizia Rahib and she too is taking part in the student climate strike.

SOUNDCLIP

The area where I live, I witness a lot of climate change impacts, like the longer summers, and the changing in the precipitation patterns, and the water stress conditions. In fact, a month ago, I witnessed heavy rains and storms which are not usual in this area. And due to those storms, the major impact in the area was the destruction of the crops. Where I live, people are dependent on agriculture and farming for their livelihood, and when crops are destroyed, it was so hard for people to feed their animals and cattle.

LL: Rebecca you hear how Sovaizia feels climate change is affecting her life. What about you? How is it affecting yours?

REBECCA HAMILTON: Here in British Columbia we've seen a huge increase in our wildfire seasons in this time. So now we have three four weeks of the summer where the sky is just obscured by wildfires' smoke from all the burning forests in British Columbia. And so this has definitely impacted my summers in that during these weeks of smoke it's hard to go outside. You can't really see the sun. You feel like you're living in a brown bubble. But I know living in Vancouver, I am privileged that climate change isn't going to like threaten my life in my life, and it's important for me to recognise that climate change disproportionately affects those who least caused it. And so while smoke in the summer is an inconvenience for me and definitely makes my summer worse, it's not threatening my life yet.

LL: The way it would for people who live, as you say, in less developed countries.

REBECCA HAMILTON: Or in other parts of Canada.

LL: Joe you tweeted a picture of yourself carrying a protest sign just the other day.The sighn reads: "I can't watch our planet be destroyed by climate change any longer". What did you see happening that you feel is going unaddressed?

JOE CRABTREE: Well in London we don’t generally get much of the actual impact because we’ve got pretty feeble weather compared to Canada. But what I see on the news and what I see; the floodings with storms with droughts. Really it affects the world and I think that affects me personally. So I've got and urge to fix that not just for people around me but for everyone in the world.

SOPHIA MATHUR: Aditi I'm wondering what kind of response you received to your decision to protest. How do your parents and your teachers feel about you staying out of school?

ADITI NARAYANAN: Sure. So I do live in a quite conservative community. So we have people who like 'climate change is real' to which is to which I respond 'yes. it is'. And I've also gotten 'striking isn't going to do anything', and to that I've also been able to respond and I've shown how. At our strike I plan to registered voters. I plan to have a lobbying training and I plan to have different organizations table and have volunteer sign saying. So through my strike I hope to truly connect to my community and to show them, A, how climate change affects them and, B, to motivate them to take action. So I've been able to explain that to the vast majority of teachers, and my own parents I have been lucky enough that they've understand what am going for in this. So yeah I think I have had some initial doubts but then eventually they've become much support.

LL: Rebecca, Joe, have either of you received similar pushback?

JOE CRABTREE: Well not really from teachers. They've been quite supportive. I think they all see the problem which is out there, but people from school have said 'oh why are you going on strike one person won't really change that much'. But I think if everyone thought that nothing would ever happen, so that's what I've been telling people and I think you know one person can have an impact. If you look at what Greta's done and the change worldwide just because of her. I think it's quite an inspiration.

LL: Rebecca, I am wondering about you out in Vancouver. I mean I would assume that in Vancouver there are a lot of people who would be supporting you.

REBECCA HAMILTON: Yes. It's been pretty support for us which is great. My teachers are definitely not oppositional and my parents are supportive which I'm really lucky about, and the community is also pretty supportive. But I think also our focus for us is that we have a federal election coming up in the fall. And so we're really trying to build momentum towards making the climate crisis and addressing it a priority in the election. And so to people who say that we're not really making an impact, they think it's all about building momentum. I think we are making an impact in that we're making our voices heard.

LL: And you say you're not able to vote in the upcoming election but you want to have an influence over how people do that, is that what you're saying?

REBECCA HAMILTON: A, yes. I'm not able to vote and we want to remind the adults that well as young folks can't vote, it's our futures that are on the line.

LL: This is for any one of you. You guys are teenagers. Do you ever feel that you should be having fun and then not worrying about the future of the planet?

REBECCA HAMILTON: I mean I've been able to balance - barely - but able to balance school and extracurriculars and activism and having a fun social life, but also I definitely agree that the work we're doing is more important at the moment. I hope that I'll be able to have fun in the future - guaranteed that it's not burning. I think that the work that we're doing at the moment is something that we should keep on prioritising and that's something that's very important to me.

LL: And Joe I'm wondering because even if you weren't worried about climate change you've got that whole Brexit thing going on at UK too. I mean do you think you should have a chance to just enjoy your tenage years?

JOE CRABTREE: Well I think definitely that's definitely true. But if we don't do this now our children won't be able to enjoy their teenage years and their children won't. So I think it is a real issue. And if climate change goes much media here in the UK as Brexit did I think there'd be a lot more action, because if everyone knew that in 12 years the planet won't be like it is today, then I think people would start to act. And I don’t think that's how it is at the moment.

LL: If your generation ruled the world, Joe, which they will one day soon, tell me what you would do differently.

JOE CRABTREE: Well I think first step is definitely to declare a climate emergency because it really is an emergency, and then long term would be to decarbonize the economy, a Green New Deal.

LL: You're referring to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Green New Deal, the new representative in the United States.

JOE CRABTREE: Yes.

LL: And what kinds of things are in that that you would like to do?

JOE CRABTREE: Well it basically gives everyone a job who wants one and ensures that it's in the renewable sector, so that is no more carbon in the atmosphere and everyone's got a good way of life.

LL: And what do you do now yourself?

JOE CRABTREE: Well I recycle things obviously but on the personal level I just try to increase awareness for climate change among my friends, among my peers and I think the strike is basically the final resort because I've been in the Green Party before and I used to hand out leaflets. Nobody was really listening. And this is the last thing, the most recent thing I've done to do climate change and I think it's actually working this time, which is quite a surprise because people actually listening.

LL: Rebecca, Aditi, what if you came to elected office what would you do?

REBECCA HAMILTON: I would declare a climate emergency and make this a priority. Every government decision needs to be made to the lens of Climate crisis. And climate policy is complicated but the decision to prioritise it is not. And so I would make sure that I prioritise it. And also I think it's important to recognize, ass Joe you're talking about the Green New Deal, one thing that is really exciting almost about climate action is that this is an opportunity to solve all of these other problems that we've been struggling with. The climate crisis is a manifestation of all these problems that are interwoven into every aspect of the foundation of our society. And so as we need to change that we can improve other things, too. This is our opportunity to have complete gender equality and to end white supremacism and to make sure that everybody has a fair job. And so I would make sure that I recognize that also in my actions for climate justice.

LL: Aditi, what about you ?What if you became a member of Congress or a senator or the president?

ADITI NARAYANAN: Sure. As someone who just really loves policy balls like that, I've worked at my local legislature before and I see all the bills that come in through the Arizona legislature, and I'm realizing that there are some really key issues that shouldn't be split on party lines but are. For example, we have a lot of big electric companies in the state that dis-incentivize the use of solar power. So my first action would be regulating these sort of companies. Then I will look into a tax on carbon emission because that's another huge problem especially here in the southwest in the States. I just have a lot of like really niche policy interests that I would start implementing such as recycling programs, protecting public indigenous lands, and you know drinking water would be another huge issue. - clean drinking water - that I would start prioritizing in my constituency.

LL: The reason you guys are striking is because adults I guess aren't listening or you feel they're not listening to you. Joe what will it take to get adults to listen?

JOE CRABTREE: Well soon we'll be able to vote. I think that will be a big change for them because they'll realize that they'll have to listen to us if they want to be elected again. And am currently 15 now, so I've got three years so I can vote. And as you know in the UK elections are up at any time specially at the moment. So yes I think soon they'll realize that we will have a say and we will have the ability to express our opinions especially in climate change.

LL: This is for all of you. What does it say to you about the adults in charge that young people are having to resort to this kind of protest to try to force change?

REBECCA HAMILTON: Honestly it reminds me of when I just put off homework and then I feel like at some point it will get done. But I know that I need to just do it because otherwise it won't happen. And that's how I see climate action. Every generation just keeps putting it off. But we're in a crisis right now we can't keep putting it off. It needs to get done and we need to take dramatic action to ensure the continuation of civilization on this planet.

LL: Rebecca I'm wondering though, does this ever take a toll on you, thinking about this all the time?

REBECCA HAMILTON: It does. I think it's really hard to-- as young people we were being told this narrative of crisis and we know what the science is telling us. But looking around us we don’t really see any real action being taken and so living in this dissonant space between what we know to be true and what is happening in the world around us, its really difficult. And to constantly be having in the back of my mind that concept of impending doom is emotionally tolling. And I think that’s something that needs to be more explored and our society is the emotional impact of climate crisis. And we need to move through that in order to take the bold action that we need to be taking.

LL: This last question I want all three of you to answer and I'll start with you Joe. What do you hope everyone young and old takes away from your strike?

JOE CRABTREE: Well I hope they see the real problem which is climate change and actually do something about it rather than just acknowledging it. So I hope that young people go along to the strike old. Older people can vote, vote for representatives who do care about climate change and will enforce new ideas like the Green New Deal. Yes that's my message.

LL: Aditi what about you?

ADITI NARAYANAN: Well I hope again that I energize the community that I show them how this issue is destined, how it's directly affecting them in their everyday lives. And you know I also hope to register a lot of voters to get a lot of people interested in our cause, to get people to volunteer, to get people interested in further action, to show people how to vote and to hold those voted elected officials accountable into enacting bills that help them in their daily lives.

LL: Rebecca last word to you. What are you hoping people will take away from the strike?

REBECCA HAMILTON: I'm hoping people will take away just how urgent this is. We're asking all levels of government what their plan is. No levels of government have a plan that is fully in line with science from the IPCC and we put pressure on that. Our biggest message is that this is an emergency and we need to act like it.

LL: I thank all three of you for taking the time and being so thoughtful about this.

ADITI NARAYANAN: Thank you.

REBECCA HAMILTON: Thank you for having me.

JOE CRABTREE: Thank you.

LL: That was 15 year old Joe Crabtree in London England, Aditi Narayanan in Phoenix Arizona. Rebecca Hamilton in Vancouver. Aditi and Rebecca are both 16. All three are taking part in today's school strike for climate. Now we want to leave you with a message sent to us from one more young climate Striker. Here he is.

SOUNDCLIP

Hi I am Aryadar Gupta. I am 13 years old and I live in Gurgaon India. I reside in a country that lives with the shame of having 14 of the 15 most polluted cities in the world. How can not host the students’ strike in Gurgaon, labelled the city with the worst air quality in the world. I'm 13 years old and only nine of them have been in India and yet seen things get really bad really quickly over the past five years. My parents and school forced me to wear masks and regularly call off sport activities and period time due to air pollution. My parents don't allow me to play outside on most days for my safety. Well I am asthmatic. Two years ago I had an experience of an asthma attack that knocked the air out of me, literally. I don't wish to live in a mask for the rest of my life. I don't wish have a family of children in a place without having to worry, constantly worry about the health and the wellness of my loved ones. So now there is no option but to strike. I am old enough to have my preferences be hard. The writing is on the wall and the time to act is now.

LL: From Gurgaon India that was 13 year old Aryadar Gupta. Well coming up. In our next half hour, how the U.S. missed Mullah Omar. Meet the journalists to uncover evidence that the Taliban leader avoided capture while living within a few kilometres of a U.S. military base. Im Laura Lynch and youre listening to The Current.

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Where was Taliban leader Mullah Omar? New book challenges long-held narrative

Guest: Bette Dam

LL: I'm Laura Lynch and you're listening to the Friday edition of The Current. Anna Maria Tremonti we'll be back in the host chair on Monday and her guests will include Meghan Cox Gurdon. She is the children's book reviewer for The Wall Street Journal and she's just written her own book about the benefits of reading aloud to children. Here she is reflecting on the experience of reading to her own kids.

SOUNDCLIP

We've read Treasure Island that wonderful Robert Louis Stevenson book many many times over the years and I remember once having that extraordinary moment where I looked around and I thought this is it. This is the stuff I was reading the book. I had two toddlers on my lap. I didn't have the fifth baby at that point so just four of them. My son was stretched out on the back of the sofa behind my shoulders kind of like a jaguar. I had another daughter my eldest daughter tucked in next to me. On the floor my husband was lying there in his suit having just come home from work to join the story and I thought I am really doing something real here. And I'm thrilled to discover through the research from my book that that wasn't just a kind of gauzy impression. It's true we really do something very significant when we read aloud. There is a physiological reward in sitting down together with a book and a child or for the child with a book and a parent. It's a chemical alteration that takes place. For instance stress hormones are decreased and binding hormones increase. Just that simple kind of lovely sacrificial moment of sitting down together. And then we also know that the picture book experience for a child is immensely nourishing cognitively. There is research now that shows us that when a child is looking at the pictures in a picture book, and listening to the words the vocabulary, the cadences, the grammar, the voice of the loved one reading the story all sorts of important brain networks are engaging in synchronizing in a way that is very productive in developing a child's kind of cognitive capacities.

LL: More from that conversation with Meghan Cox Gurdon coming up Monday on The Current. I'm Laura Lynch and this is the Friday edition of The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

NEWSCSTER 1: You don’t have to look hard in [unintelligible] South Pakistan's militant hot bed to find signs the Afghan insurgent leader Mullah Omar might be here.

NEWSCASTER 2: Five years ago, Afghanistan's president Hamid Karzai in an exclusive interview with Time's now editor in chief [unintelligible] revealed that one of the world's most dreaded terrorists, Mullah Omar was in Pakistan.

NEWSCASTER 3: Today in a steep the office of Afghanistan's president, said Mullah Omar died in 2013 at any hospital. An official said he had hepatitis.

LL: That was the conventional wisdom about Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar who had apparently fled to Pakistan after the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. Even the 10 million dollar bounty on his head didn't help U.S. forces track him down. And all the while he was apparently directing the Taliban activities from deep in hiding. He was so elusive a few people even know what he looked like, except for the fact he had only one eye. The only news of Mullah Omar came in 2015 with the announcement of his death that it actually happened two years earlier. Now a new book is casting Mullah Omar's story in an entirely new light. It alleges Omar never left Afghanistan and lived for years as a recluse. Surprisingly close to a major U.S. military base. Dutch journal Betta Dam spent five years researching the life and death of Mullah Omar interviewing his long time bodyguard and other Taliban insiders as well as Afghan officials. Her book is called Searching for an Enemy better. Bette Dam joins me now from Amsterdam. Hello.

BETTE DAM: Hi.

LL: Can we start with this? Can you remind us who Mullah Mohammed Omar was?

BETTE DAM: Yes to me and I think to many in Europe in the rest of the world he was is this most wanted terrorist some called him a monster who had this Taliban regime where he destroyed Buddha’s. He helped Osama bin Laden to attack America on 9/11, extremist Salafi leader close to Al Qaeda. That's what I knew when I started the research who was actually operating from Pakistan, organized the insurgency.

LL: And how long did he actually lead the Taliban?

BETTE DAM: He lead it from 1994 until 9/11.

LL: Now how widely accepted was the notion that Mullah Omar ended up in Pakistan after the coalition invasion?

BETTE DAM: I think it was widely accepted. It was a story that was told to us, journalists, as were in Afghanistan from the good servers in Kabul, from political leader in the pallace in Kabul, but also they were close to the American intelligence and the American generals who also told us this story that he was always in Pakistan, actually closely connected to the Pakistani intelligence and Islamabad organizing the insurgency against us.

LL: How much proof had ever been offered for him being in Pakistan?

BETTE DAM: Yes. During this period of research I found that there was not much proof of coming from Kabul. For example like maybe a good source who was with him in Karachi you in the city Quetta or more maybe an officer, a Secret Service officer who leaked that he saw Mullah Omar and maybe in a mosque or something. It did not appear when I asked for it. It was not in the news. There was nothing on him being in Pakistan or for example that he died in a hospital in Karachi, something the Americans and the Kabal governments say. But there is no proof of that.

LL: So what about you during those years did you believe it too?

BETTE DAM: Yes of course. When I started this research I definitely was thinking for like three, three and a half years that he was in Pakistan. In the beginning of this research I began with his youth. I invested a lot of time in going to the people who met him when he was young when he was fighting against the Soviet Union. For example when he was the leader. I got more connections along the road, I was speaking to people who were basically in Quetta who were actually hiding in Pakistan. Number two, number three secretaries of high level leadership I was able to meet. And they all portrayed this picture of him being super powerful. But when I asked to share some proof -- for example letters, recordings, his decisions, for example, interventions in military strategy of the Taliban or writing statements, there was nothing so that was the moment I started changing my mind. I figured that the leadership of the Taliban hiding in Pakistan did not have a lot of contact with Mullah Omar. Many actually had no idea where he was.

LL: So when you started piecing this story together, the story begins when the coalition captured Kandahar, what surprised you about what you found out about that?

BETTE DAM: It turns out that basically the new upcoming President, Hamid Karzai, in December 2001 when the Taliban was toppled was reaching out to Taliban one leadership and the Taliban leadership was reaching out to him and they were making connection to have a surrender to organise a surrender, something Karzai was proud of. He basically dismantled politically the Taliban. The Taliban leaders should have told him you are now the new leader. We will back off and wait until you give us further instructions.

LL: So what happens?

BETTE DAM: That historical moment for peace I think was not accepted in Washington D.C. You see in the reporting that the next day after Karzai is happy to announce this deal, that the Rumsfeld intervenes.

LL: Donald Rumsfeld who was the defense secretary at the time.

BETTE DAM: Yes exactly the defense secretary had the mobile telephone number of the satellite phone of Karzai and called him. This is not going to happen. The Taliban is our enemy. The Daily is like AL Qaeda and we will send troops. It's basically war. And Karzai said to me that he accepted that hoping that he would later on restore this, but he was never able to do that.

LL: \What happened to Mullah Omar after that?

BETTE DAM: It was of course unknown. Many people thought took the motorcycle to Pakistan. That was the main narrative but he, together with his replacement, he appointed a replacement and basically withdrew from that power and he said to another mullah that he would be the new leader. But at that time it's important to understand that there's nothing much left of the Taliban.

LL: So Mullah Omar at this point sort of withdraws from the from the herding up the Taliban and gets out of Kandahar and essentially goes into hiding. Now before we find out what happened, next tell us about Jabbar Omari because he's a key part of the story.

BETTE DAM: So Jabbar Omari at that time was governor of the Taliban regime in the north of Afghanistan and the commander. He was selected to provide security to Mullah Omar and he stayed with Mullah Omar all the time from 2001 until his death.

LL: And you found him. How did you end up finding him?

BETTE DAM: Yes. In 2018, end of 2017. I got the news that he was arrested and that was a big opportunity for me because I knew that I had to speak to him. I did not know which prison he was; Guantanamo Bay, Bagram, wherever the Americans had brought him. So that was a bit of a job to find him. But I managed.

LL: And where was he?

BETTE DAM: He was in a safe house of the Afghan intelligence service.

LL: Still in Afghanistan.

BETTE DAM: Still in Afghanistan.

LL: Based on your conversations with him what did you find out about where Mullah Omar had gone into hiding? Where he was living?

BETTE DAM: He chose to be in the House of the driver of Omari, Abdul Ustaz. And they stayed there for four years and Omari, but also neighbors of that house told me stories of how Abdul Ustaz told family but also neighbors like there's a very big important Taliban in my house, don't come close, it's very dangerous but we need to take care of him. And he tried to scare away people not to come. All those details are in the report I wrote. But in 2004 when the Americans decided to build a very big base in that area, a walking distance from that house they moved.

LL: So you're telling me he was living within walking distance of a U.S. military base.

BETTE DAM: Yes at that time the first location, the military base was built on walking distance but Mullah, Omar, Omari and the driver - Ustaz - left because Ustaz is originally together with Omari from a little district outside of [unintelligible]. It's only 30-40 minutes’ drive but he decided to go there. It's very much a pro-Taliban area. So it's really a loyal group of people around them.

LL: So were they safe from the U.S. military in the second location?

BETTE DAM: No they were not, interestingly enough. When they arrived there the Americans build another buis across the road so to say it's just like one hour walking distance from the location of Mullah Omar hiding place which is the base of forward operating base Wolverine. And they basically lived together until Mullah Omar died.

LL: So he was living under the nose of the U.S. military for years.

BETTE DAM: Yes. It's important to know the nation of the American forces where they were in, in areas like this. For example they told us how difficult it was for them to operate there. One intelligence officer said 'the only thing we were trying was to keep the road open. That kept us busy every day. It was full of insurgents around us. So don't ask me did you focus on capturing a most wanted or not. We didnt have time for it'. Another one told me 'oh no no the most wanted, he would not be inside Afghanistan. It was very much a tunnel vision in the camp on Pakistan'.

LL: But do you know why the Afghans would have announced that he died in Karachi? Was there a moment for that?

BETTE DAM: Well I think there is a political need in Kabul for much longer this conflict between Baghdad than in Afghanistan where Kabul is accusing Pakistan of intervening by means using the Taliban to attack the Americans in Afghanistan to control Afghanistan from Islamabad. And that’s what the big fear is from Kabul which is understandable because so many Taliban are actually in Pakistan.

LL: There has been a lot of reaction to your reporting from people on social media, from the Afghan president spokesperson who described your claims as quote "delusional". And he also said that it is an effort to create and build an identity for the Taliban and their foreign backers. And then also David Petraeus who is the former CIA director and one time commander in Afghanistan responded to your work in a piece at the Wall Street Journal and said he would be surprised if Mullah Omar would have taken the risk of staying in Afghanistan. I am wondering what you make of all of this criticism youre facing.

BETTE DAM: I did what I did. I’m sharing my report is extremely transparent. You can see why I talk to. This is a news story its against the narrative. I realized that. I don’t find it very easy to publish this, but at the same time I am calm. I know what I have done. It's a long research. I think it’s important that the book will be published too. Mullah Omar, the man itself his political views before 9/11 already explained that he would maybe not trust Pakistan to go there anyway. He had a very apprehensive attitude towards political intervention from the outside world and also from [unintelligible]. That is an interesting new detail we need to know, the distrust of the Taliban towards Pakistan before 9/11 and how is that now. It's important knowledge.

LL: Okay but I want to play some tape for you now. They are some of the assertions that were made about where Mullah Omar was. First, we'll here then Afghan President Hamid Karzai speaking to Indian TV in 2007, followed by U.S. David Petraeus in an interview with NPR in 2009, and then - then Pakistani president - Pervez Musharraf speaking in 2011 with the BBC. Let's start with Hamid Karzai.

SOUNDCLIP

HAMID KARZAI: Now I know for a fact. I know it from those who have met with him that he is around Quetta. It's something that I know for a fact. I can say anything else. I'd be lying if I say he was not there.

DAVID PETRAEUS: He is in fact the leader of the Afghan Taliban and the leader of the Quetta Shura and indeed he is generally thought to be located most of the time, if not all the time, in Pakistan.

PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Mullah Omar has no reason to be in Pakistan. He's never been in Pakistan. He has always been in Kandahar region all through his life.

LL: Okay so just again to recap. That was then Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf in 2011, before him, U.S. David Petraeus in 2009, and first of all we started off with then Afghan President Hamid Karzai in 2007. Bette which of those three men were speaking in good faith when they talked about where Mullah Omar was?

BETTE DAM: Well I don’t know. As a journalist I tried to just stay away from all of them, in a sense that I don’t know what Musharraf knew. I do know that while I visited Pakistan and asked for example high level Pakistani intelligence, but also the political leaders about Mullah Omar. I found out that Pakistan was very sure that Mullah Omar was not in Pakistan. But what does that mean? You always need to cross-check this. You always need to find eyewitnesses. The same for Karzai. If Karzai meets people who met Mullah Omar in Karachi or in Quetta I invite Karzai to tell the names and to have something more than only claims. That is all I have to say. My experience of 14 years in Afghanistan, 14 years in this global war on terror is that there has been a lot of spinning. There has been a lot of framing. There has been a lot of claims. At the same time we have not seen a lot of good journalism and what I find most important outcome of this report actually.

LL: Some people who were listening to this may ask, because Mullah Omar is dead the Taliban is under a different leadership, so why does it even matter what he was doing all of those years?

BETTE DAM: First of all, I think we lack good knowledge on this insurgency movement. And I am not supporting the terrorist if I support the idea of more knowledge about them. There is now a strong idea of making me a Taliban sympathizer. That's not the case I'm just worried, I'm worried about a war that has cost so many lives and there is so much misunderstanding about all the partners in this war on terror theatre. So the only thing is that I am trying to be an amazing journalist, trying to cross-check. That's all. So it matters because the Taliban is only getting more powerful. If we wanted to or not that's the reality. And do we know them? So by reading about Mullah Omar I think we get a lot more knowledge on who they are, how to deal with them, what if they come back and they will beat up women in Kabul again? What are you going to do with that? [Unintelligible] cutting off hands, cutting off legs. Those things we all remember. Is there a way we can have a diplomatic approach to this group of people now and can we talk to them about this? Can I make this debate and have a new situation where these things are not happening?

LL: Well then that raises the question that as the Taliban pursues peace talks with the United States right now how should you report reported change our understanding of the process?

BETTE DAM: I think from the book there is more openings to talk to the Taliban than you might think. That is a short answer and that in a way creating more bridges between the two groups than my might have taught me. It also gives you a little bit of grip on the movement and who they are, instead of this faraway monster that is only against us. So I think that is why it's good to have this out and to read about his life to learn for now.

LL: But you yourself just raised the specter of the Taliban returning to power and bringing down horrendous treatment on so many people especially women. So why would your book help to broach differences with the Taliban?

BETTE DAM: No I think you can do two things as negotiators. You can see them as the monsters the ones who work with Al Qaeda and are against us and are they anti-Western or like Salafi, do want to support terrorists on their territory. Those are assumptions I all address. And there is much more room for a debate with them. There are uncertain aspects, misunderstood because of an American narrative that is interesting to read. How do field research how interviews would this insurgency movement is creating new narratives that we never knew, just simply because the American narrative is square dominant. And also journalism was mostly embedded in Afghanistan. So we basically we flew in with troops or we interviewed the American embassy or our naval officers there which created a lot of misunderstanding about who they were.

LL: Well let's be clear then, you're suggesting that there could be a peace pact with the Taliban that has them return to a role in governance of the country where they don't practice some of the - as I said before - horrendous practices that they carried out before?

BETTE DAM: I think there is not a question of 'if' any more. There was a question of if in 2001 to 2003. They were gone. They gave up. They were ready to play a minor role in the country where Karzai would play the big role, Karzai and the Americans that didn't work out. Karzai got the power. The Americans were with him. In short they created the regime that was more and more corrupt. It created a lot of enmity towards the government. Many Taliban are against the government because they lost their brother or they lost their two sisters or their five family members. There are many many if you speak to them. They join those movements because they are against the government that doesn't mean they are ideologically very far from us. So I think now the Kabul government has not much power at this moment. At the same time the group of day government Taliban and all those people who support them is very big. Now I am describing this group as not so far away as you think, not these only big monsters that you cannot talk to. I am critical but I am also giving more information that gives you a way to deal with them and understand them.

LL: And prevent them from being monsters.

BETTE DAM: Exactly. I think the harshness of the Taliban the way if they get power it will also depend on the unrest in Afghanistan. If there is like today for example there is a civil war nation in one of the cities from Mazar el Sharif where groups fight each other at the moment well you speak. If that continues in more cities and people are insecure and are robbing each other and creating unrest, the sanctions of the Taliban will be higher in order to control this.

LL: Okay Better Dam I think you very much for your time.

BETTE DAM: Thank you.

LL: Dutch journalists Bette Dam is the author of a new book Searching for an Enemy. She spoke to us from Amsterdam. That is our program for today. Stay tuned to Radio 1 for Q Live at the Junos. Join host time power in London Ontario for performances by Bahama's, Snotty Nose, Rez Kids and Donovan Woods. Remember you can always take The Current with you to go on the CBC Radio app. You can browse through past episodes of our show and start listening in just a few seconds. You can also search for any stories you missed of you want to hear again. Listen live to your local CBC station right from your smartphone or tablet. The day's top stories are there are. You can make your own playlist of the favorite stuff to listen to later and it's all free from the App Store or Google Play. Finally we want to leave you with some words from Gretta Thunberg. She is the 16 year old Swedish activist who inspired the school strikes taking place around the world today. This is part of her speech from the COP 24 climate negotiations in Poland last December. I'm Laura Lynch thanks for listening to the Friday edition of The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

If you children can get headlines all over the world just by not going to school, then imagine what we could all do together if we really wanted to. But to do that we have to speak clearly. No matter how uncomfortable that may be. You only speak of green eternal economic growth because you are too scared of being unpopular. You only talk about moving forward with the same bad ideas that got us into this mess, even when the only sensible thing to do is pull the emergency brake. You are not mature enough to tell it like it is. Even that burden, you leave to our children. But I don't care about being popular. I care about climate justice and the living planet. Our civilisation is being sacrificed for the opportunity of a very small number of people to continue making enormous amounts of money. Our biosphere is being sacrificed so that rich people in countries like mine can live in luxury. It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few. The year 2078 I will celebrate my seventy fifth birthday. If I have children maybe they will spend that day with me...

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Full Transcript for Friday March 15, 2019

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