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The AIH Transcript for March 13, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight...

CO: Downed for the count. Today, Canada and the United States joined other countries in grounding all Boeing 737 Max 8 eight aircraft -- our guest says that's the right call.

JD: Crisis of conscience. An Iranian activist is now safe in Canada, but overwhelmed by guilt because the Iranian lawyer who represented her has been sentenced to 38 years in prison and 148 lashes.

CO: Desperate times. At the scene of a deadly building collapse in Nigeria, rescuers with little equipment scrambled to free dozens of people trapped in the rubble.

JD: Seeds of discord. China claims it's shutting down imports from a major Canadian canola exporter because of pests -- but Canadian inspectors say there are no bugs in the system.

CO: The pick-up artist. Our guest's viral challenge doesn't involve dancing or throwing anything at anyone: it involves teenagers cleaning up garbage, and they're following his instructions to the litter.

JD: And it wasn't exactly a race to the bottom. A small German town accidentally gets a gigantic order of unwanted toilet paper -- and this week after 12 years, they reached the final single ply sheet. As It Happens. The Wednesday Edition. Radio that knows you can't spell triumph without TP.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: An Arizona man challenged 'bored teens' to pick up trash — and it went viral

Planes Grounded

Guest: Larry Vance

JD: Canada and the United States have joined the global chorus -- and grounded the Boeing 737 Max 8 and 9 jetliner. That is the plane that was involved in the deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash this weekend -- as well as in other crash over the Java Sea in October that killed 189. The announcement from Transport Minister Marc Garneau grounds planes from Air Canada, WestJet, and Sunwing -- and keeps planes that had arrived from other countries on the ground here for now.

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MARC GARNEAU: So when a decision is made such as this one -- which is a major decision affecting one class of aircraft -- obviously there were flights planned for today, yes there is some disruption and yes it's unfortunate. But we must put safety at the top of the agenda. It has to be paramount in our considerations. There will be some disruption, there's no question about that. And hopefully we'll be able to resolve this issue in the coming weeks -- and get the Max 8 back up and flying, but for the moment caution has to dominate.

JD: That was Transport Minister Marc Garneau speaking to reporters earlier today. Mr. Garneau said that his team has new information, that while unproven, does point to a similarity between this crash and the one in Indonesia. Larry Vance is an aviation consultant and a former investigator with the Transportation Safety Board. We reached Mr. Vance in Ottawa.

CO: Mr. Vance you just heard from the Transport Minister -- Mr. Garneau -- did Canada make the right call here?

LARRY VANCE: I think Canada made the right call. I think they made it at the right time. I think that there was a groundswell.

CO: And Minister Garneau had said that there was new data that helped him and his team make their decision -- they wanted to see what consistencies there were between these two crashes. Is it now looking more likely that there are similar reasons why they had these accidents?

LV: Yeah it is. The evidence is pointing there. It's been pointing there pretty much since the beginning. But you know the confirming evidence now comes from being able to study some of the satellite recorded data from satellites that show in a rough way what the vertical profile of the aircraft was after takeoff on this new accident. And you study that against the flight path of the one of the accident that happened last October -- you see significant similarities that point to the fact that it probably comes from the same source, the same defect, or a defect very similar to what happened.

CO: So you think that the minister made the right decision. We also heard President Donald Trump make an announcement this afternoon. But Canada and the United States are late to this club, right? I mean other countries immediately grounded these Boeing 737 Max 8s.

LV: The different government agencies and airlines and so on around the world took the decision at the times that they did for their own reasons -- commercial reasons, economic reasons, and you know general enthusiasm from the public. Canada and the United States resisted because they were waiting for factual data to come from the second accident to have a really good rationale for why they were making the decision that they made. So I think the tipping point came today.

CO: The minister was talking about the disruption that is inevitable because of grounding this many aircraft. What exactly are the implications? I mean how many of these planes of this class aircraft are out there that will no longer be in service after now?

LV: So in the worldwide fleet they don't make up a major proportion in numbers. But there are somewhere between 300 and 400 in service right now around the world. In Canada there are 41. It's a significant chunk out of your airplane fleet. There's definitely going to be disruptions. They will be able to absorb it. There's a lot of other airplanes that can be used in rerouting and rescheduling and so on that will happen. So over the next number of days, it won't be as apparent as it will be in the next day or two -- that you know flights are canceled and people have to make other arrangements and so on. It'll be a scramble in the short term but it's absorbable for sure.

CO: And it was also the case that other airlines -- other countries with these aircraft who will be landing in Canada or are on the ground already -- they can't leave can they?

LV: No they can't. None of these airplanes can fly -- you know virtually, they're stuck where they are. And you know I've even had family members on vacation in Mexico and so on get in touch with me saying you know what are the implications of this? Well you know if you're not flying on that type of airplane it is probably not going to affect you very much. If you are flying on that type of airplane, then the companies will reroute you.

CO: Now these particular aircraft -- Boeing 737 Max 8 and 9, both have been grounded -- these are really serviceable aircrafts, aren't they? These are really important parts of the fleets because of the way people have changed the way they travel -- these are short hauls, they take fewer people. They are really useful planes, so what do the airlines do over the long term not having these Boeing planes in their fleets?

LV: Right now the operators probably are anticipating that they'll get these airplanes back into operation relatively quickly. I'm not talking hours or days, but they're thinking that it won't last for months and months. It might -- depending on the seriousness of what comes out of this latest investigation and how much of a fix that they have to design and put in place in these airplanes, it could take a long time. It could take months and months -- we don't know. So yeah these are very very important airplanes. These types of airplanes are important to the future. When I say 'these types of airplanes' -- I'm talking about airplanes now that are very highly technical in their approach to how they're flown. There's a lot more being done by the airplane now and a lot less being done by the pilots if you will. These new airplanes are very much more fuel efficient. They're very much cleaner. They fly a little faster. They can fly a little higher. The environment inside is cleaner. It's a cut above where we used to be in airplane technology. So this is the future -- this is where we're going. And you know hopefully they'll get this whole situation straightened out so they can continue to develop that airplane and airplanes like it.

CO: Just finally, what are the implications for Boeing because if they find that the same issue was with this Ethiopian Airlines crash was the same thing that would happen on Lion Air flight that went down in October -- they identified fixes they needed to do, and there was a lot of retraining, there was some software adjustments. Are there some legal problems for Boeing given that these things are similar and that perhaps there were fixes they didn't put in place that could have prevented this?

LV: Yeah well you can bet that they're going to have to answer to a lot of liability issues. And you know the fixes that they proposed and implemented after the first accident were supposed to prevent this second accident. Now that I say assuming that this second accident has a lot of interconnection with that first accident -- we don't know that for sure at this point -- but yes, if it is a fact that the fixes that they put in place from the first accident didn't work well sends the whole liability issue to a higher level. That's for sure. Hopefully they'll get it right second time through.

CO: Yes hopefully. Mr. Vance I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

LV: It's very nice talking to you. Thanks.

JD: Larry Vance is an aviation consultant and former investigator with the Transportation Safety Board. We reached Mr. Vance in Ottawa.

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Lagos Building Collapse

Guest: Anna Cunningham

JD: Rescuers are racing against time in Nigeria. This morning a three-story building in Lagos collapsed. The building contained a school. And there are fears that dozens of people, including children, may be trapped in the rubble. Anna Cunningham is a freelance journalist. We reached her earlier today at the scene of the collapse in Lagos.

CO: Anna I know you are right there -- can you describe the rescue operation that's going on behind you?

ANNA CUNNINGHAM: I have to be honest with you, it's utter chaos here and it has been since we arrived several hours ago. This building collapse happened at about 10:00 this morning. And at least seven hours have gone now -- and the only progress that we have seen is one person who's out alive, it was a huge cheer -- and rushed off in an ambulance. But unfortunately we have also seen body bags pulled out. If you look at the images of this building collapse it does look like it just concertina right down.

CO: Do you have any idea how many people might still be trapped inside?

AC: At the moment nobody seems to be able to give us an accurate answer as to how many people could still be inside this building. And as I say it looks like it's just concertina right down. I have spoken to one of the officials who's dealing with this rescue effort. And interestingly what he has said is this is an illegal school that was on this site which may be an indication as to why nobody can give any accurate figures -- they simply don't know how many children were attending this school.

CO: What kind of rescue operation do they have?

AC: It's a very basic one I have to say. It has got one big digger -- actually situated on top of the collapsed block -- and it's trying to smash through those blocks. That itself is linked to a lifting machine. And then I've seen one fire engine. And the number of hours I've been here at the moment -- about three or four hours -- I've only seen a maximum of three ambulances. So although the people I've spoken to have said that we're making all the effort, we're trying to communicate with people inside -- it's incredibly difficult because the crowd is so dense here. There are so many people. People are now beginning to come back from work to this area. And what they're saying is -- I've heard from some people who have been trying to help out on the sites and they've now come down what they're saying is there is no crowd control. We can't hear whether anybody is screaming and crying from the inside -- it is simply not possible. The police are here but they're finding it very difficult to keep the crowd back and nobody at the moment asked for silence.

CO: And we can hear the sound every now and then even louder voices there. So there are a lot of parents, a lot of families, who are probably quite desperate at this point?

AC: Yes very much so. And we've seen every now and then when somebody is pulled out from the building and taken to an ambulance indicating that they are still alive we see family members, possibly the parents, running behind the ambulance. Big cheers going up and rushing along behind the ambulance. But I think the atmosphere here is increasingly tense. Yeah this is not an affluent area of Lagos. Lagos Island is very densely populated -- a lot of haphazard, businesses, shops, narrow kind of worn like roads. It's very difficult for the ambulances to get down with all these people. And I get a sense from those that I've talked to that people are angry about this. Somebody told me the building was 30 years old. And they said it hadn't be maintained.

CO: From what you have seen of this concertina collapse of the three-storey building with the children on levels -- we don't even know how many levels they were on in this school operating -- what are you hearing as to where, possibly, survivors are trapped at this point that they're trying to get out?

AC: It is very difficult to know. Nobody is giving out that information. I think what we're seeing is they are just literally trying to hammer down into the concrete, and gain some pockets of air and then establish if there are people that they can communicate within there. But equally what I have heard from local residents who run some shops nearby, they say that they know there were very young children -- even babies -- who were being looked after in this what we now had confirmed is an illegal school.

CO: And what are the implications for the government? I mean this is not -- as you point out -- this is not the first building, public building, that's collapsed that perhaps needed to be inspected or not being used. So will this have any effect on on government?

AC: If I'm being cynical with you I would say no I don't think this will have a huge impact. Like you say it's happened before unfortunately. Lagos as with other states across Nigeria last weekend had governor elections so there's going to be a transition of power from the Lagos State Governor -- Akinwunmi Ambode -- to the new governor who was elected Sanwo-Olu. We have seen the outgoing Lagos State governor turn up at the sites couple of hours ago -- and he said that he would launch a full investigation, but clearly his power are going to be limited because he's leaving his job. So I think it will really be a question for the New Lagos State governor in terms of what he's going to do about building regulations and building perhaps like this.

CO: Anna it sounds very very distressful for all those people there -- and I know you are in the midst of covering that and it's getting darker. We're going to let you go and thank you so much for speaking with us.

AC: Thank you.

JD: Anna Cunningham is a freelance journalist. We reached her earlier today in Lagos, Nigeria.

[Music]

Trash Tag Challenge

Guest: Byron Roman

JD: Some viral challenges can be tough to get behind. Most viral challenges can be tough to get behind. There's the one where you throw a slice of cheese at your baby's head to see if it will stick. There is the one where you try to stay inside a store for 24 hours without getting caught. And there is one where you light yourself on fire. But the Trash Tag Challenge is decidedly more wholesome. For the past week, people from Russia to the Philippines to Guatemala have been posting "before" and "after" photographs of places that they have cleaned up with bags and bags worth of garbage taken away. And it all started because of one man's Facebook post. We reached that man -- Byron Roman -- in Scottsdale, Arizona.

CO: Byron first of all just tell us what it is that you posted on your Facebook page?

BYRON ROMAN: What I posted was a picture of a young man -- a "before" and "after" -- where there was litter, and then he picked up the trash and put it in bags -- and he took an "after" picture.

CO: But you did more than just put these two pictures of this man -- this young fellow sitting in the middle of a field of really disgusting trash, and the next picture is a picture of him standing with all these full bags of garbage and looking pretty happy with himself. You issued it as a challenge to what you say are all the bored teens out there. Tell us what you did.

BR: I saw the photo and one of those ones that is, well I'm going to share with my friends. And I came up with the 'bored teens' because lately all you see online is all these challenges where people are jumping out of cars, and walking next to the car while dancing or you know the Tide Pod challenge -- eating soap. I thought it was something positive -- and my challenge was to teens that were bored -- not the ones that are busy, working, studying. But if they're bored enough where they are doing something silly and dangerous -- then you know they should do something positive for the Earth. Go out there and do something and take a picture and post it back.

CO: Well people do that all the time with bored teens and it doesn't have much of an effect. What was the effect of your posting?

BR: I used to be a bored teen myself. I think it just resonated with the rest of the country first and then it just took off. And as the day went along it just kept snowballing into other countries. And I think people saw it and they liked the message.

CO: It went viral internationally. It translated into other languages -- it went around the globe.

BR: Yes. And I posted a week ago on Tuesday -- on the 5th. I didn't started seeing anything till Friday. And by the next morning on Saturday I was over like 30,000. I was like wow this is crazy. Then I started getting messages from people you know thanking me for posting the challenge. They thought I was the one in the picture --thanking me for cleaning up. Others were sending me pictures of them doing the challenge because it's a challenge that started back in 2015. And it was started by Steven Reinhold from an Appalachian trail company. And the challenge was -- if you were on a trail, you know pick up some trash and then post it on with the hash tag, and then the UCO and [inaudible] and they will send you a gift. And that's how it started in 2015.

CO: This challenge you put out -- and this can also happen, right, that people pick up a challenge and just simply repost it and they feel they've done something by sharing it. But in this case you were getting photos of young people going out there and doing it. Tell us about some of the people and the groups who took up your challenge.

BR: Well some were school teachers so they sent me some kids collecting trash and some with buckets of trash -- and from different countries. So it was very exciting to see and many others posted photos because they had already been doing the challenge for a while so they posted some pictures from a while ago.

CO: Now that the kids have done all this -- your posting has been shared I should point out 329,000 times now. So you have gone out far and wide. Do you think that's going to be a one off thing: they've done it, now they'll move onto something like -- I don't know -- throwing cheese at babies or dancing in front of cars?

BR: Probably. But at least the goal was met where an area is clean. And I think people are more likely to keep an area clean. And if you walk into a dirty room and it's more likely if you drop something you're not going to pick it up, but if it's a clean room you drop something, you are going to pick it up because you want to maintain it. So hopefully by cleaning up and keeping an area clean -- people will have pride in ownership of the planet and do more things about it and not get it dirty again or trashy or messy.

CO: Do you think in part it's because all of the things that young people especially are confronted with -- with the whole idea of climate change are just so large and people feel that they can't do anything about something that is so huge that maybe just that feeling that you can actually accomplish something, you can make a difference, do you think that's a small thing that makes them feel satisfied?

BR: Yes it is an accomplishment. And it's like you walk into a room and don't know where to start -- you need to clean it, but should you dust first? Should you vacuum first? Or you end up moving the trash from one room to another. But it just has to start somewhere. And it takes one person to get something started. And sometimes people say, oh why doesn't someone do something about it? Well that person is you. So don't wait for the government to come and clean up. Don't wait for anyone else to come and clean up. You're right there -- pick it up. Help someone pick up trash. Give someone a hand. It's you.

CO: Takes one person.

BR: Yes. And obviously it took me -- even though the movement was already going on -- so when people say, oh I'm only one person, what can I do? Well that's all it takes.

CO: Byron it's good to talk to you. Thanks.

BR: Thank you.

JD: Byron Roman's Facebook post kicked off a viral trend of people cleaning up garbage. We reached Mr. Roman in Scottsdale, Arizona. And if you would like to see some of those photographs from the #TrashTag go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Toilet Paper

JD: Henceforth, March 12th will be an important anniversary in the town of Fuchstal, Germany. Families will gather in the town square, they will light candles. And together they will recall the story of their town's courage and resilience. The story of how it overcame adversity. The story of Fuchstal's 12-year toilet paper nightmare. The year was 2006. An employee of the local council placed an order for toilet paper for the town's public buildings. Somehow there was a mistake. That resulted not in the arrival of a delivery van, but the much more ominous arrival of a large transport truck -- packed with thousands upon thousands of rolls, enough to bury that small town of 4000 souls. And worst of all, it was single ply. Those gathered in the town square will wipe away a tear, then recall that they did not give up. Instead they bravely set about storing that mountain of terrible toilet paper. As Mayor Erwin Karg told the website The Local quote, "In primary schools, the secondary school, with us in the town hall -- toilet paper was hidden in the storage rooms everywhere." Then residents of Fuchstal just went about doing their business. That Everest of TP shrank year-by-year. Until, finally, yesterday-- 12 years after that erroneous delivery -- Mayor Karg made the announcement, "The last roll has been used up." So remember: the journey through a thousand miles of toilet paper began with a single wipe. Remember the resolute people of Fuchstal and you will always have inspiring roll-models.

[Music]

Part 2: Human Rights Lawyer sentenced to 38 years in prison, and 148 lashes, back in Iran

Iran Human Rights Lawyer

Guest: Shaparak Shajarizadeh

JD: Nasrin Sotoudeh's situation was already dire. Since last summer the Iranian human rights lawyer has been serving a five-year sentence for defending women who oppose the country's mandatory headscarf. Now her husband is reporting she has been sentenced to a total of 38 years in prison and 148 lashes. Shaparak Shajarizadeh is one of the activists Ms. Sotoudeh had been defending. Ms. Shajarizadeh escaped Iran and now lives in Canada. We reached her in Toronto.

CO: Shaparak from what your understanding of what you've heard, how is Nasrin Sotoudeh doing right now?

SHAPARAK SHAJARIZADEH: It's very sad. It's very sad. She's a strong human rights defender. And I know she can handle it, but I'm not sure what's going to happen because there is no justice and there is no law behind those doors.

CO: And how do you think -- you've spoken with her husband -- how is he doing? There's children there -- how are they doing?

SS: He said they didn't expect this much support from the world and all the human rights defenders are from all around the world. And her family are grateful.

CO: This is a very short phone call he was able to have with his wife. And did she tell him -- because this is an extraordinary sentence -- is this the first he learned that she would be facing 38 years in prison and 148 lashes?

SS: Yeah. It was Saturday. And of course the news were shocking.

CO: When you say he is getting international response -- she is feeling supported by people around the world. Tell us a bit about what kind of support that Nasrin's case is getting.

SS: There are lots of human rights organizations -- they had some statements about this sentence. Also some countries like U.S. and U.K. and France they issued some statements about this harsh and unbelievable sentence.

CO: Tell us what she has been accused of doing. What has led to this extraordinary sentence?

SS: There are lots of accusations in her case. But the irony is none of them is against the law -- even in our country. For example one of them is being a member of a human rights organization called Human Rights Defenders. The other one is being active in an organisation which was working against the execution. They were demanding a stop to execution. It is not against the law. And the other one that concerned my case is defending the women who were arrested last year for opposing compulsory hijab. The only thing that Nasrin did all these years was defending her clients and defending human rights activists.

CO: She was your lawyer because you were among these women who refused to wear the hijab and you were protesting in the street without your head cover, and she was your lawyer for that.

SS: Yeah she was my lawyer -- including two other women. And one of the accusation is spreading the lie about my case. And the other one -- telling lies about our case. And this is not true. Everything she said about my case like being beaten up, like having some injections with unknown medicine, and being in solitary confinement -- everything she told the media was the truth.

CO: There was one accusation -- and we should say that none of this has been confirmed by the authorities in Iran -- but this is what we understand that she's also facing a charge possibly of prostitution. What is that about?

SS: Yeah this is one of the things that me and other women are facing. They want to make fear -- to frighten people -- so they come up with another accusation of encouraging people for prostitution. And these accusations also came in all of our cases including Nasrin's.

CO: And we have seen that there has been a crackdown on defenders of human rights in Iran. But this sentence of Nasrin: 38 years altogether (and) 148 lashes. Have you seen a sentence like that because others are in prison, others are being charged, what does this say?

SS: No. It's new. It's also shocking for all the human rights lawyer inside Iran. Also for the people and for the world -- yeah I guess this is the first time that someone gets 38 years for just being a good lawyer and human rights defender.

CO: Do you think that it will stop people from defending human rights? Do you think it will have an effect on those fighters in Iran?

SS: Actually today there were some women from White Wednesdays campaign -- that I was a member of it -- there were some women unveiled in public and they were talking about Nasrin, they talked about women's rights, and asking other people to join them. People are getting stronger especially women.

CO: You're now here in Canada. You're safe. What's it been like for you to watch what's happening to your lawyer?

SS: It's very sad. Since she got arrested -- you know she got arrested three days after my trial, and I was devastated. I was so sad. During that time I was in Turkey and I don't know how many times I cried -- I don't know -- out of guilt or shame. But all the time her husband was a great supporter. He told me every time that she's not in jail because of you -- she's in jail because of her goal and her dreams for Iran. And it's so sad all the human rights lawyers right now are either in jail or facing jail time. There's no one left.

CO: Shaparak I'm so sorry for all this. But you sound very strong and I appreciate that you would speak with us. Thank you.

SS: Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. Thank you.

JD: Shaparak Shajarizadeh is one of the Iranian activists who has defended by human rights lawyer Nasrin Sotoudeh. We reached Ms. Shajarizadeh in Toronto. Nasrin Sotoudeh has now been sentenced to 38 years in prison and 148 lashes.

[Music]

Canola: Minister

Guest: Marie-Claude Bibeau

JD: Canadian canola producers don't know how worried they should be. The industry has been on tenterhooks since China's suspension of shipments from a giant Canadian exporter. The Chinese say that they have found pest's in Richardson International's product. Agriculture Canada however insisted its inspectors found no contaminants when the canola was being loaded. And the company says it is considering the possibility that it has been targeted for other reasons. After all the oilseed action follows Canada's detention of a Huawei executive and China's arrest of two Canadians. Marie-Claude Bibeau is the federal Agriculture Minister. We reached her at the airport in Winnipeg.

CO: Minister Bibeau the Chinese say they have found pests in Canadian canola. What do you think is really going on?

MARIE-CLAUDE BIBEAU: Well we have asked the Chinese to provide us with the new samples or to allow our scientists to go over there and to make our own analysis so we can compare notes. Because based on the samples that was taken before the shipment left Canada we have re-do some analysis and we still haven't found anything. So obviously if there is something we want to know because we would have to take action. And this is why we are pursuing the conversation with China, with the officials responsible for the sanitary regulation because it already happened in the past year -- in recent years a similar issue happened and we have been able to resolve it based on the science based approach.

CO: This attempt to have this resolved through a science based research approach -- are you getting cooperation? Are the Chinese authorities helping with that science based research?

MARIE-CLAUDE BIBEAU: Well we haven't received new samples yet. So we are pursuing this -- you know to push them to have counter analysis done. But obviously as we do in many files -- we have a whole-of-government approach. I mean there are other departments and ministers who are involved in this file including Minister Freeland (Minister of Foreign Affairs) and Minister JIm Carr (Minister of International Trade) so we are taking this situation very seriously. From my side I work with the CFIA -- the Canadian Food Inspection Agency -- on a science based approach, but we are also taking care of the international trade aspect also. For example we are making sure that the other countries where we import our canola that they are reassured on the quality of our products. So we are looking at the file from different ways but putting more emphasis on the science based approach.

CO: Okay. Now of course in the midst of all this what people are looking at and a guest we had on last week is suggesting -- they don't think it's a coincidence that this has happened in the midst of a dispute over the detention of the Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou. Are you looking at this? Are you considering the possibility that this is part of the retaliation we have seen in other respects for Canada's arrest of Meng Wanzhou?

MARIE-CLAUDE BIBEAU: Well the Chinese officials have told us that this is based on their analysis. We haven't got any other type of message. But obviously as I said I'm working with Minister Freeland and Minister Carr.

CO: Okay so you're working with them because it's possible that this is a retaliation? This is in response to that arrest because the Chinese never said that the reason why they had arrested the other two Canadians and charged them with spying. They didn't say that was because of Meng Wanzhou but they let that message out. So what are you doing to find out if it's possible that this is another part of that retaliation?

MARIE-CLAUDE BIBEAU: We are really putting the emphasis right now on the science based approach and we are giving us a bit more time because this is the way we want to do trade with scientific information and not mix with any other type of concern that we may have. But obviously we are considering different options. But the one we are pushing and working hard now on is really a science based approach.

CO: But are you considering that possibility this is political?

MARIE-CLAUDE BIBEAU: I am really sorry but I really have to leave -- boarding now...

CO: Just answer yes or no -- are you considering this may be political?

MARIE-CLAUDE BIBEAU: It's important for us as Canadians because this is the way we do business -- we want to do it based on facts, based on science, and it's important that we stay focused and that we prioritize this approach. But obviously other departments, other ministers, are looking at other options that might be involved or other action that we may have to take but it's kind of an option B, C, and D. Now we are working on option A and it is a science based approach.

CO: I am going push one last bit and say what concerns are you hearing from farmers who are looking at hundreds of millions of dollars worth of agricultural trade with China being at risk here?

MARIE-CLAUDE BIBEAU: I had many conversations with farmers this week and their representatives -- we always talked about the issue and they also think that the best way to address the situation is to address it based on science because this is what is more reassuring for them.

CO: What do you think is at stake here?

MARIE-CLAUDE BIBEAU: We...I'm sorry they are closing the door. I'm in an airport.

CO: We will let you go. Ms. Bibeau thank you.

MARIE-CLAUDE BIBEAU: Bye bye.

JD: Marie-Claude Bibeau is the Minister of Agriculture. We reached her at the airport -- as you heard -- in Winnipeg.

[Music]

Rescue on highway

JD: Sometimes the right person does come along at just the right time. Yesterday, a man was rescued from a fiery crash. His pickup truck collided with an SUV on a highway in British Columbia between Port Alberni and Nanaimo. B.C. Hydro employee Nick Labadie was on his morning commute when he came upon the collision. He, another bystander, and the driver of the SUV in the crash all worked together to help free the driver of the pickup who was stuck in his seat as flames shot up from the vehicle. Here is Nick Labadie speaking to CHEK-TV in Vancouver today.

SOUNDCLIP

NICK LABADIE: So I was just coming up the hump like I usually do. And came around the corner here just down the road from where we're standing here and notice that there was a head on collision that looked like it had just happened. I wasn't quite sure till I pulled up a little bit closer. The female occupant of the other vehicle was already outside of her vehicle and walking around. But there was definitely a gentleman that was trapped in his pickup truck and there was a fire started underneath his pickup truck already. There was another gentleman that was already in full action trying to get this gentleman out -- trying to open up the driver's door. So I tried assisting him to try to get the driver's door open, but we could not open that door. It was stuck quarter the way or halfway by the time we tried to pry it out. By that time the flames were coming up real fast. So the decision was made to try to get him out of the window. The gentleman was conscious enough to click the button and help us with the seatbelt so we untangled him out of the seatbelt and out of the airbag. And we noticed his foot was stuck in the pedals. So I ran around to the other side -- to the passenger side -- to see if I could free his foot. But it was full of smoke in there and the flames were coming in there. And I don't know if I did something -- dislodged his foot or whatever -- and the other gentleman was pulling as hard as he could out the window but it did un-lodge him. So I went back around to the driver's side and we were able to pull him out of the flames just in time and dragged him out this. He just wanted to get out. Like "get me out, please get me out somebody. Get me out." That was being screaming and the flames were coming up real fast. It was incredible how fast the flames came up. And we dragged him a little bit further down and by that time the tires were blowing up and things were popping.

REPORTER: Were you worried about your safety?

NICK LABADIE: You don't think about that when you're there. You need to get the guy out. And he had to be out right away. We are talking minutes here before it would have been catastrophe.

JD: Nick Labadie was one of the people who rushed to rescue a man injured in a highway crash in British Columbia yesterday. He was speaking with Dean Stoltz, our colleague a CHEK-TV on Vancouver Island. The driver of the pickup suffered serious injuries, but he is expected to recover.

[Music]

Carey Price

JD: For decades hockey legend Jacques Plante was known for two major stats -- obviously: known as the first goalie to wear a mask in the NHL. And until last night he held the record for the most wins as a net minder in Montreal Canadiens franchise history. But last night when the buzzer went and the Habs secured a 3 - 1 victory over the Detroit Red Wings -- Carey Price secured top spot in the history books, surpassing Mr. Plante. It was the goaltenders 315th win in a Habs jersey. Now here on As It Happens we like to think we knew that Carey Price was something special way back when...back in 2007, Carol spoke to Carey Price right after Team Canada won the World Juniors, and the young goaltender learned that he had been named MVP of the tournament. Here's part of their conversation from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

CO: Carey Price -- wow! What a game.

CAREY PRICE: Thank you.

CO: Congratulations. How did it look from your end of the ice?

CAREY PRICE: It was a nice honour. I mean everybody battled hard for us and I'm glad that we pulled it out. I was just glad when it was all over and just finally got to celebrate with all my buddies.

CO: And you must've just been crazy. I could see that you were practically killing each other out there.

CAREY PRICE: I got ran over and we all charged in the net and all wound up in the net. So I mean I'm just so happy right now and I'm happy for everybody on the team.

CO: Now Carey you are really a born goalie, weren't you? I mean your father was a goalkeeper. He named you after a goalkeeper. Is this feeling like destiny is finally come for you here?

CAREY PRICE: Yeah I mean my dad was the goalie so growing up he always had those little tips for me. He's always been there because he has been through everything that I've gone through. He's been drafted and he's played in the Western Hockey League so he's always there for me.

CO: Now I understand that the small community you grew up in at one point your father actually bought a plane to take you to midget games.

CAREY PRICE: Yeah actually I was listening to this very show in the airplane and driving in the car for three and a half hours there and back every day. So I can't thank him enough for everything he did.

CO: So you actually listened to As It Happens while you were driving around.

CAREY PRICE: Yeah I remember the music -- it just seems like yesterday that I was 9 years old sitting in a car in a Ford Ranger.

CO: Could you ever imagine that it is not much longer after that you'd be talking to As It Happens about this extraordinary accomplishment today?

CAREY PRICE: No. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that this would happen. I mean I can't thank everybody by name right now -- but I would if I could. I'd just like to thank everybody for helping me throughout my years -- all my teachers, all my coaches, and all my friends that have supported me through all this.

CO: We are all cheering you like crazy today.

CAREY PRICE: Thank you.

CO: What's your message for other young kids who can only dream of what you've done today?

CAREY PRICE: Just work hard. I mean it can happen to anybody. I mean I'm from a town of about 2000 people in the middle of nowhere. So if you work hard at it anything can happen.

CO: What's the name of the town you're from?

CAREY PRICE: I grew up in Anahim Lake -- it is about three hours west of Williams Lake in B.C. so there's not a whole lot of people out there.

CO: Now how did you get the nickname the "price is right?"

CAREY PRICE: I don't know -- it just kind of came about. I mean the TV show obviously. I've heard it probably about a million times -- it is kind of catchy I guess.

CO: Is that what the guys call you?

CAREY PRICE: Pricey mostly. I mean everybody's got a nickname. Usually when you're playing hockey you normally just add a "Y" to the end of somebody's name or a "R" or a "F."

CO: So how are you going to celebrate? What's the plans?

CAREY PRICE: I'll go fly for ten hours -- well right now I'm going to go visit with my family. I haven't got to see them yet, so I'm very excited to see them and share the moment with them. I mean my aunts and uncles are over here -- from back home and they're all excited. I mean it's a moment to remember.

JD: From 2007 that was Montreal Canadiens goaltender Carey Price speaking to Carol after Team Canada's gold medal win at the World Juniors. Last night the Canadien's beat the Redwings -- making "Pricey" the winningest goaltender in Montreal Canadiens franchise history.

[Music]

Tracey Ramsey

JD: In Ottawa today, the House of Commons Justice Committee was scheduled to consider a motion to bring Jody Wilson-Raybould back for a second round of testimony. Opposition MPs wanted to let the former attorney general rebut the claims made about her actions on the SNC file by Prime Minister Trudeau and his former principal secretary Gerald Butts. But the motion didn't even make it to a vote. After much anticipation, the meeting began -- and then minutes later, the Liberal members voted to put the question off to a later date. Afterwards NDP MP Tracey Ramsey was asked what she made of the meeting's sudden end.

SOUNDCLIP

TRACEY RAMSEY: Well they're shutting down that committee. This is about democracy. This is about the fact that we're here to represent our constituents but we're also at this committee to represent Canadians. Canadians from coast-to-coast-to-coast want answers to these questions. So the fact that the Liberals are not willing to discuss them and not willing to discuss them in the light of day so that everyone can hear what has happened here I think is quite telling. And Canadians will be the judge of the Liberals behaviour today and the way that they squashed the debate. But again this is a really serious tool that they've used today to pull out. And what does this say to Canadians? That they have something to hide. If they didn't have something to hide -- we would have had the debate, we would have had the conversation today.

REPORTER: Are you guys prepared to make this an election issue...

TRACEY RAMSEY: It's not about whether or not we're prepared to make this an election issue -- it's about Canadians. And we can see that Canadians care about this issue. They want answers to this issue. They will make that decision at the ballot box whether it comes earlier or it comes in October about the behaviour of the Liberals. And you know this Liberal government promised to be different. They've talked about openness and transparency and accountability -- and that is not what we saw reflected today in this committee. What we saw was just shutting down debate, trying to sweep it under the rug, that they don't want the truth to come out. And ultimately Canadians will make that decision at the ballot box as to whether or not that's the Liberal government that they voted for or not.

JD: That was NDP MP Tracey Ramsey this afternoon in Ottawa -- after Liberal MPs brought a swift end to a meeting about a proposal to bring Jody Wilson-Raybould back to offer more testimony about the prime minister's office and SNC.

[Music]

Part 3: Grand chief who lost son to opioid crisis calls on B.C. to call a public inquiry

B.C. Chiefs Opioids

Guest: Stewart Phillip

JD: The opioid crisis in British Columbia is "a state of emergency." And First Nations people are more at risk of overdose and death than the general population. The Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs believes that that is true. And that is why it is joining the City of Vancouver along with other municipalities and groups in calling on the province to hold a public inquiry into reports that organized crime is fueling the crisis. Grand Chief Stewart Phillip is the president of the Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs. His son, Kenny, died of an opioid overdose last year. And now Chief Philip is speaking publicly about that loss for the first time. We reached Chief Stewart Phillip in Vancouver.

CO: Grand Chief Phillip this seems to be an awful situation in British Columbia -- and I know you have been affected by it personally. So first of all my condolences for the loss of your son.

STEWART PHILLIP: Thank you. I appreciate that.

CO: How did the opioid crisis contribute to the death of your son, Kenny?

SP: By virtue of the fact that those drugs are so readily available on the street and throughout the entire province -- anyone that is a victim of substance abuse or an addiction is at great risk.

CO: How often do you think that somebody in your community or communities in B.C. is getting the call -- that you got -- about a child or a loved one?

SP: Well you know without question it's a crisis. And a short while ago we had recognition and acknowledgement of the opioid crisis in our community in Penticton -- and everybody was encouraged to hang purple ribbons in the event that they had lost a loved one to a drug overdose. And it was amazing. When you drove through our community there was purple ribbons almost on every house. It was a very graphic representation of how pervasive opioid crisis is.

CO: It's everywhere but so much more on First Nations and First Nations communities. And the release that the Chiefs put out -- First Nations people five times more likely than non-First Nations citizens to experience opioid related overdose events. Yes it's a crisis for everyone and lots of people across Canada are faced with this, but why is it so much more intense in First Nations communities?

SP: Well I think poverty and economic marginalization and the legacy of the residential school experience, the Sixties Scoop, all contribute to a situation where many many of our people have coping mechanisms to deal with the trauma. The intergenerational trauma from all of those experiences. And we've always suffered abnormally high levels of alcoholism. And you know the drug trade begins to expand and there's a greater proliferation of drugs available, it's only obvious that our Indigenous peoples are going to be more greatly affected.

CO: What do you need to happen? Now declaring something "a state of emergency" is not just words, is it? It calls for something. What do you want that to be called for?

SP: Well what we're doing is we are serving notice and pressuring government to do more than what has taken place. The governments of today have adopted a minimalist approach and they are simply attempting to cope with harm reduction strategies and so on and so forth. But what we need is greater investment in treatment centres. The full spectrum of that continuum of care. And we need aftercare. You know during our work week five days a week the emergency vehicles are going by -- the front line medical personnel are out on the streets saving lives. And too often they save the same life over and over again -- the same individual. And until at some point there's nobody there and the individual passes.

CO: If there was a response as you're describing it -- if that were in place and that was the priority, is it possible it could have prevented the death of your own son?

SP: Yes absolutely. You know I think that's a possibility that all families and parents that have lost a loved one -- you know they're left with that question. You know again governments are just kicking the issue down the road. And we have these harm reduction strategies and so on and so forth. There needs to be a major investment in this crisis. And yet governments are still going down the rabbit hole of SNC-Lavalin -- and you know the large scale resource development projects. You know the Trudeau government bought a dead pipeline for 4.5 billion dollars -- that money could've been spent in the addiction's field, in treatment centres, and so on -- a matter of governments not establishing this crisis as a priority.

CO: And you've asked for a public inquiry -- what are the questions you want an answer to?

SP: Well I think that a public inquiry will provide an opportunity for all of these questions to be brought forward and it will get the proper hearing that it deserves. Otherwise, you know the crisis continues and intensifies and more and more people are dying. It's so tragic.

CO: The trauma you are describing and what happens within a family. When you look what you are up against -- and Tom Rodgers of the opioid conference director, he said that big pharma you know holds a huge responsibility for this because of all the prescriptions that have been put out there. Then we also know that organized crime is laundering billions of dollars possibly also through illegal drug money and real estate -- that's the report we're waiting to see out of British Columbia. When you're up against all of that -- when these very very large organizations are contributing to it -- what can you possibly do?

SP: Well I think that's why it's imperative that we do have the inquiry. And the revelations of how there is a direct link between astronomical real estate values as a consequence of illegal money laundering in the province of British Columbia in Vancouver and Toronto and other places will be brought to light.

CO: Well Grand Chief Phillip I am again I'm sorry about what happened to your son this summer. But I'm hopeful that you're looking for the answers and that maybe this will help. Thank you.

SP: My heart goes out to all those families that have lost loved ones under these tragic circumstances. You know we need to rise up and our voices need to be heard.

CO: And thank you for your courage.

SP: Thank you.

JD: Grand Chief Stewart Phillip is the president of the Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs. We reached him in Vancouver. And we have more on this story on the As It Happens website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Kevin Downing

JD: Paul Manafort's trials were over today -- and then they weren't. The former campaign chairman for U.S. president Donald Trump was sentenced for the second round of charges stemming from the Mueller investigation. Mr. Manafort is now facing a total of seven and a half years in prison after he pleaded guilty to conspiracy charges. His lawyer, Kevin Downing, appeared after the hearing to speak on behalf of his client.

SOUNDCLIP

KEVIN DOWING: What I'm about to say will not be a surprise -- Judge Jackson conceded that there was absolutely no evidence of any Russian collusion in this case so that makes two courts. Two courts have ruled no evidence of any collusion. [People shouting in background: Traitor and Liar] Very sad day. That is entirely unnecessary.

JD: That was Paul Manafort's attorney, Kevin Downing, speaking through shouts from protesters. Perhaps Mr. Downing thought that that was the last task for his client or for this client. But within an hour of the sentencing, a new round of charges was laid. The Manhattan District Attorney's office charged Mr. Manafort with 16 crimes including mortgage fraud and conspiracy. And unlike the jail time already handed down, if he is convicted in New York state the president cannot pardon him. As Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance said in a news release quote, "No one is beyond the law in New York."

[Music]

Italy Rape Case

Guest: Luisa Rizzitelli

JD: Italy's Ministry of Justice is launching an inquiry into a rape sentence that sent shock waves throughout that country. Last week it emerged that two men were acquitted of rape charges because the judges ruled the victim's story was not credible -- as she was too unattractive to be targeted. That ruling was made in 2017, but was released to the public now because Italy's Supreme Court ordered a retrial in the case. In Ancona, the town where the rape allegedly happened in 2015, there were big protests outside the courthouse. Luisa Rizzitelli organized them through the women's rights group "Rebel Network." We reached Ms. Rizzitelli in Osimo, Italy.

CO: Ms. Rizzitelli have you ever seen a ruling like this in Italy before?

LUISA RIZZITELLI: No. No. I can say that I have not seen something like that. It's very terrible and we are very shocked about this case. And we are happy that now the Ministry of Justice in Italy moves on the case.

CO: I understand that this woman who was sexually assaulted -- or she accused them of sexually assaulting her -- the judges decided it wasn't a case because of her appearance, how she looked, that she wasn't attractive.

LR: Yes. Exactly in this way she said the motivation of judges had referred to the physical appearance of the woman. So these three judges say it's not possible that she was raped. There is no connection and no possibility for us to understand how they can write something so unbelievable. Because I want to say that rape just doesn't satisfy a desire for pleasure but it is an abominable hatred and contempt for the victim -- it does not depend on how feminine you are but on hatred within the rapist is something that has no connection, no logical connection. It is a misogynist way to think and to talk about the case.

CO: And they said that -- the judges said -- that she was too masculine to be raped.

LR: Yes. Too masculine -- and also the young girl wanted to be raped. Something absurd I can say. But it was what the judge think about the case.

CO: What does the victim -- what does this woman who was from Peru -- what did she say happened that night?

LR: Well the story is that this girl who was with these two guys. She knew them and they were in a bar. And then the girl -- came back at home. [Inaudible] Didn't remember anything about what's happened. But in the morning she needed to go into the hospital she got a terrible physical situation compatible with the rape.

CO: She had stitches. She had lacerations. She was quite badly hurt.

LR: Yes. We know that she also needed to have an operation because she was in a terrible situation. Yes.

CO: What was the evidence as to why she couldn't remember what happened?

LR: We think that someone put drugs in something she drank. But in the blood of these young girl -- there were a lot of these drug -- benzodiazepine -- so she cannot remember but she had a very great pain on her body. And we cannot understand how the judge did not consider this.

CO: You mentioned that she had benzodiazepine in her blood -- very high levels which is considered a date rape drug. And the doctors confirmed. The doctors confirmed all of this had happened to her. She had been with these two men, they taken her to a park where she was sexually assaulted.

LR: Yes. This story is really terrible. And we never see before to describe the situation and the motivation about the final judge talking about the physical appearance of a victim, this is really unbelievable.

CO: But what do you make of the fact that the three judges who made this ruling were women?

LR: Yes yes. This made me and all the feminists here in Italy very very sad. We know that in Italy we have a very difficult moment now because we think that women's rights are under attack. But we cannot imagine that three judges -- really in the high level of person -- women can say something like that. It's very bad for us to think that maybe also some judge had internalized machismo is a really bad news for us.

CO: What do you mean by that -- what is the internalized machismo?

LR: Well I think that Italy is a place of the Vatican as you know -- and we think that we have a great culture problem when the women cannot understand or cannot support another women doing the same thing that machismo do -- we think that there is a machismo internalize in themselves. And it's a very bad story, but it's an old story we live in Italy. We are not surprised about it.

CO: The woman herself though has returned to Peru -- if she doesn't come back and present these charges again, what will happen?

LR: We don't know too much because this young girl was really so sad -- it was so difficult for her to stay in the same place in which these guys are also around. So I just know that she came back to Peru and I think maybe it's good decision for her because it's not easy to remain in a place in which you can hear three judge to say what we have heard. So now we just know that she is not here in Italy. And is in Peru.

CO: Does she have to return in order for this case to proceed?.

LR: I don't think so. I don't think so. I think that's what the loyal women continue to fight for her.

CO: We will leave it there. Ms. Rizzitelli I appreciate speaking with you thank you.

LR: Thank you to you.

JD: Luisa Rizzitelli organized a protest this week in Ancona, Italy, in support of a victim of rape. We reached Ms. Rizzitelli in the nearby town of Osimo. To more to learn more about this case go to our website: cbc.ca.aih.

[Music]

Roosters

JD: It is the controversial new by-law that in recent weeks Cape Bretoners have been furiously crowing about. Last night the Cape Breton Regional Council approved an amendment to local animal husbandry regulations -- but not before removing a clause that banned roosters from the municipality. The ban that was originally drawn up sparked heated debate between councillors. And a petition signed by hundreds. Many Cape Bretoners argue that roosters make great companions at home and do not belong only on rural registered farms. Councillor Earlene MacMullin is not among them though. Here she is, at last night's council meeting.

SOUNDCLIP

EARLENE MACMULLIN: There is a lot of complaints that come in within the urban core. And in my personal opinion and I can only speak for myself -- when you purchase a home there's a level of expectation. If I'm going to move to the City of Sydney and spend 250-300 thousand dollars on a home in a subdivision in the middle of the city, I have a level of expectation that I'm not going to be next door to a rooster. When you move to a rural area...Absolutely. Absolutely. It's always been that way. But you've got to understand -- and people have to understand -- I know when it comes to livestock of any kind, any kind at all, that there's an attachment and people don't want to do that. But I have an issue in my district where good husbandry is not being practiced and it's not being practiced next to a seniors home. These people don't enjoy it. There's nothing I can do about it without the by-law. And the by-law itself -- removing the ban altogether -- yep that does give some teeth so that is a great thing. But like I said it goes back to the level of expectation. I also want to clarify due some social media mishap, I'm not a lady that doesn't like roosters. I know on social media, I've been labelled as a person that wants to eradicate and genocide roosters. Where it came from? I have no idea. A 2017 article where I told a story canvassing that a rooster came out -- what did not make that paper was how much I thought the little guy was cute and how I don't want anything to happen to him and I just told them what I thought (was a) funny story. Instead that turned to eradicate and genocide. So I need to put a stop to that right now. In fact at my mother-in-law's there is a little rooster next door. And it happens to be the exact one that chased me and I love to see it every day.

JD: That was Cape Breton councillor Earlene MacMullin with her views on roosters in urban areas at a regional council meeting last night.

[Music]

Brexit

JD: A quick update now on a story we've been telling you about since June of 2016 -- and may continue to tell you about for the rest of our natural lives. You may recall that yesterday British MPs once again rejected Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit plan by a large and embarrassing margin. But the deadline for the UK to leave the EU is on March 29th -- just days away really. If it has to leave without a deal in place that would constitute a no-deal Brexit. That's clear enough. It is the only thing that is. Today, parliament voted not to leave the EU without a deal. Sort of. Because the vote was nonbinding and if the deadline arrives and there's no deal -- well I'm pretty sure that that's a no-deal Brexit. Whether you voted against one or not. So after today's votes -- with an S -- yes, there were plenty. Prime Minister May told MPs the only way they could really avert a no-deal was to vote for a deal which of course they voted against yesterday. So now though either seek a short extension of the deadline if they get a deal. Which they won't. Or a longer extension if they don't. Which they won't. And then something else will happen which might be nothing happening since that's mostly what has been happening. We will have more on this story hopefully never again, but probably tomorrow, and forever.

[Music]

Birthday wishes

JD: The thing is the message itself doesn't really make sense. I mean listen to this: "Wish my dad a happy birthday. Love, your sons." Now I don't want to be pedantic -- but that's a dog's breakfast. If there were two sons, why does it say "my dad" instead of "our dad." And when they say "your sons" -- they're talking to us which makes them our sons which would mean we are all their dad and we're supposed to wish ourselves a happy birthday. How many mistakes can you make in a message that's only nine words long? But that billboard worked anyway, for two main reasons. One, the large picture of the disembodied head of the dad in question -- a New Jersey man named Chris Ferry. And two, Chris Ferry's giant cell phone number printed at the bottom. The people behind the billboard -- you've probably guessed -- are Mr. Ferry's two sons, Michael and Christopher. As kids they routinely played a prank in restaurants -- telling their servers that it was their dad's birthday. So with Chris Ferry's 62nd birthday approaching they thought up an even bigger prank: they would put up a huge billboard in Atlantic City, put their dad's face on it, and add his phone number for everyone to call. I know what you're thinking: that's a terrible idea. Weirdly though, Chris Ferry is loving it. He told a local TV station quote, "I think I've had 15,000 calls, texts, and Facebook hits, in the last three days. It's a cool story and I'm right in the middle of it. So I love it." So writing: C-minus. Effectiveness: A-plus. And if you're planning to recreate this trick for your own parent, please: you can copy it, but please copy-edit it as well.

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March 13, 2019 Episode Transcript

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