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The Current Transcript for March 13, 2019

Host: Piya Chattopadhyay

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

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VOICE: I was mad. I was upset how everybody let her down.

PIYA CHATTOPADHYAY: That's Tina Duck speaking last summer about her 15-year-old daughter who died in Winnipeg nearly five years ago. A new report now confirms what she said then that almost everyone it seems had let her daughter Tina Fontaine down. In a moment we'll hear how and what things need to change in Manitoba and in other parts of our country to keep other young Indigenous people from meeting this same fate. Also today.

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VOICE: If you take these photos to any court in your country, could they convict any criminal? It's just propaganda. It's just fake news. They want to demonize the Syrian government.

PC: That was the response of Bashar al-Assad when he was confronted with photographs of Syrians who had suffered torture, but court, specifically the International Criminal Court, is where a group of Syrian refugees is determined to have him tried for the horrors the Syrian people have endured during the past eight years of war. What are the chances? We'll talk about it in half an hour. And then after that.

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VOICE: Make no mistake, this is not a case where parents were acting in the best interests of their children.

PC: A conversation about the injustice behind the alleged U.S. college admissions scam. Hi, I'm Piya Chattopadhyay, sitting in Anna Maria Tremonti, and this is The Current.

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Tina Fontaine report is a 'postmortem on the misery' of First Nations: advocate

Guests: Daphne Penrose, Scott Fielding, Cora Morgan

PC: A Place Where it Feels Like Home is the title of a new report on the death of Tina Fontaine. On August 2nd of 2014, the 15-year-old Indigenous teen had asked a Child and Family Services worker to put her somewhere where she feels like its home. Two weeks later she was found dead in Winnipeg's Red River. No one has been convicted of a crime in her death. Tina Fontaine's story sparked a national outcry over missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls. Before Tina Fontaine died she had left from the care of her great aunt and uncle Sagkeeng First Nation seeking to reconnect with her birthmother in Winnipeg. In the six weeks she spent in that city before her death, Tina Fontaine was in contact with police, with hospital staff, with Child and Family Services. In her report, Manitoba's Advocate for Children and Youth, Daphne Penrose reviewed the services the province provided to Tina Fontaine. Daphne Penrose is with me from Winnipeg. Hello.

DAPHNE PENROSE: Good morning.

PC: This is a big report, but overall what jumps out at you, what stands out from you from all that you uncovered?

DP: Yeah so I think there's a lot here when you start to look through Tina's life and looking at the possible opportunities for changing how we interface with families and provide services for kids when they're struggling at different points in their life. And so one of the things that really stands out for me, especially in the last weeks of Tina's life, is just the complete lack of resources that were available to help her and that really impacted the outcome for Tina.

PC: Why were there no resources? Why was there such a big lack?

DP: Yeah that is the question. I mean one of the things that continues on the top of our radar here is that we have a significant number of young people who were sexually exploited and addicted and we continue to struggle with accessing resources for those kids. Right now we don't have any long term treatment beds in Manitoba that treat kids with a Methamphetamine addiction for example and those resources are desperately needed. That's one of the reasons why it's so important to highlight these issues and gaps in service, so that kids can access them when they need them.

PC: So give me some specifics. When we talk about the system, how was it meant to protect Tina Fontaine and how did it fail her?

DP: So you know I think that when you start to look at the impact for Tina you know you have to look right back when I started as a reporter and started talking about the fracturing of the family and you know that there was sibling groups and siblings that Tina were a part of her life and she never actually had that. And so that fracturing and the inability for her to have constant contact. You know sometimes although parents can't always safely look after their children, it doesnt mean that they don't love them and that they shouldn't be a significant part of their lives and that's part of the role as the family around them to facilitate that relationship. And then when you look further down when after the death of her father and the inability for family members to access services and things like that you know it was clear that Tina needed help after her father passed away and that help was not forthcoming even though it was asked for.

PC: But I guess the big question is why wasn't it forthcoming? If a teenager cries out for help and says I need help and goes to, has contact with police, with hospital staff, with various government departments and says look I need help, I'm struggling, how does she not get access?

DP: Yeah and that's one of the biggest questions in the report is why wasn't the resources and why aren't the resources available for kids? This situation that as a teenager was in is not unique. We had this happening for us all the time in our advocacy office for kids are coming in and or we're providing advocacy services trying to get kids help for their addictions or trying to get kids placements where they can feel safe and secure and those places just aren't forthcoming or available and weren't available for Tina.

PC: So what you're saying is that there are other children out there in Manitoba, who are not getting access to the care that they need and they potentially could meet the same fate as Tina Fontaine if they don't get that access.

DP: Yeah and what I will tell you for sure is that we do have children who end up dying of overdose or ending their life because of their addiction and the trauma that they are enduring through sexual exploitation and all of those other issues that are surfacing for them when they are living on the streets or unable to access treatment. And so we do have kids who are having the same fate and will continue to have that unless resources are developed and resources and needed quickly. This is not the first time that I've created a report where this very issue was brought to the surface. I did a report in December of 2018 where a young person died through overdose who was severely exploited and the same issues were present for her as well.

PC: So you made five recommendations in your report, we're not going to get into it specifically, but given what you just said, look I've been here before, I've made similar recommendations before and nothing has happened. How optimistic are you that the government is going to take action on these recommendations?

DP: Well you know I think that's where everybody comes in in the public and all of us taking our responsibilities from where we sit. Mobilising and making sure that the government is providing the services that our Manitoba children and our children need and I think that we continue to move forward and continue to talk about the issues and make sure that the government is creating those resources and through my legislation, I will be publicly monitoring the compliance with these recommendations and I'm hopeful and optimistic. I did see the response from Premier Pallister yesterday and I thought that was really positive and I'm quite optimistic that the resources are going to be mobilized, but I will be monitoring it very closely.

PC: Daphne Penrose, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much.

DP: Thank you.

PC: Daphne Penrose is the Manitoba Child and Youth Advocate. She's in Winnipeg. Well to get the government's response, we have reached Scott Fielding, who is Manitoba's former Minister of Families and current Finance Minister. He too is in Winnipeg. Hello.

SCOTT FIELDING: Good morning.

PC: How much responsibility does the province of Manitoba bear in Tina Fontaine's death?

SF: Well listen, first of all, we want to thank the advocate you know just for her work in terms of identifying all the issues that Tina faced, you know within five years goes with it. We the government really want to ensure a situation like this with Tina really never happens again where someone is able to fall through the cracks of the system. And so we embrace her recommendations and so we want to make sure that a situation like this does not happen it's just not acceptable to have a child fall through the cracks.

PC: So let me go back to my question, how much responsibility does the province bear in Tina Fontaine's death?

SF: Well I think everyone bears some responsibility. The advocate's report clearly suggested it was a system wide failure and so we as the government want to take and we do take these recommendations seriously. So we think since coming to office we really taken some strong action in terms of things like the truth and reconciliation. There's about 34 recommendations that have kind of faced the province. We've implemented about 25 and also other serious reports. The Phoenix Sinclair you may recall was a major failure I guess of the child welfare system and there's 62 recommendations. We implemented about 90 percent of these. So we do take these things seriously and so we want to make sure that the child welfare system is repaired here in the province of Manitoba.

PC: So let's talk about Daphne Penrose's recommendations. There are five of them, they're quite broad and big. But one of them is a plan to ensure Youth Services include safe home life settings for treatment when children are at risk of harm. Is that something your government can and will commit to?

SF: Well sure absolutely. We got the report yesterday. We thank her for it, so we're going to review each of the recommendations. We feel that we have taken strong actions in a lot of areas doing a CFS reform plan to really focus on things like really intervention and prevention. We have seen some success of reducing the number of kids in care, but much much more work needs to be done. So you know again, we've got the recommendations. We want to work with the children's advocate and Indigenous communities to make sure the children are better supported when in the child welfare system. Everyone has a responsibility here.

PC: Another recommendation calls for the ministry to have a response plan for all missing youth, in particularlysexually exploited youth. We know in Manitoba it has the highest number of missing children in our country. What is your commitment to fixing that?

SF: Well number one, we are reviewing, there's a program called the street youth program. I had a chance to do a drive when I was the minister of families on this. So we want to identify that to make sure that children that need the support that are you know that are on the streets are really taken care of, so we very much do support the recommendations and we want to make sure that they're implemented and what we want to see is results really as a government.

PC: You know when you look at the picture in Manitoba, it has some pretty bad stats if I can put it that way. It has the highest numbers of children in care, the highest number of youth in custody. It seems that perhaps many of these people are just bouncing between various systems. How do you explain all this?

SF: Well I think there needs to be better systems in place. You know when we took office three years ago, we did put, one of the first things we did as the government is introduce something called the Protecting Children Act and that was largely based on some of the incidents that happened in the child welfare system. Really what that does is allow systems to talk to each other and I think this is one of perfect examples where systems whether it be police or CFS or other areas weren't talking to each other, giving the information together. That was one of the first things we did as a government. We also introduced child welfare reforms, which focus on early intervention prevention before people get in the CFS system. We think it's important to get the supports that are there. We've also made sure the children aren't in hostels, that they're in homes. And we've also supported things like customer care legislation to ensure the child welfare of individuals really takes into consideration you know customs and cultures for Indigenous individuals. So we have taken some action, but there needs to be absolutely more work to be done and the report that Daphne has brough out here, we think highlights a lot of them and we think, in fact we are supportive of these recommendations coming forward and we want to work with her and again the Indigenous communities to make sure the child welfare system is more effective here in the province of Manitoba.

PC: So here you are the former families minister and now the guy who has the money. You're the finance minister. Those two things coming together, it will take money to address the problems that Daphne Penrose has outlined. When and will you commit to those things?

SF: Well first of all we have taken strong action on a number of things. And I'll just refer you back to other important reports in the CFS system. The Phoenix Sinclair, we've implemented about 90 percent of these recommendations. We're obviously going to take a look at all these recommendations, butwWe have taken some strong steps even in things like meth where we put together something called a verbal report, which is a whole number of recommendations to address it as something that Manitoba is grappling with right now. Also things like ram clinics that's kind of people that supports of people of mental health and addictions that are important. We put more money in beds. We've also done withdraw treatments and one thing that we've also did just in our recent budget.

PC: I'm going to have to let you go minister very soon, so if you could just wrap up please, thank you.

SF: About $2.3 million to support to ensure that the gangs and the dealers aren't dealing these drugs. So we're very supportive of this. We want to make these investments to make sure that the child welfare system is supported and people get better care in our system.

PC: Scott Fielding, we'll keep an eye on this. Thank you for your time.

SF: Thank you.

PC: Scott Fielding is Manitoba's former families minister and current finance minister. Cora Morgan is the First Nations Family Advocate at the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. She's in Winnipeg. Hello.

CORA MORGAN: Good morning.

PC: When you heard the former minister speak there, what are you thinking?

CM: Well I'm very critical of the province of Manitoba. We've had a crisis of child welfare for more than a decade and we've had the theft of the First Nations children for over 150 years. So of course my expectations of what should be done are big and they're urgent.

PC: So when you hear him say look we have implemented 90 percent of the report on Phoenix Sinclair and cites other things and he says we're committed to looking at the recommendations this and potentially implementing them. Does that give you any confidence?

CM: No and you know what, when the whole reason why I have the role that I have and that the Assembly of the Manitoba Chiefs as the First Nations Family Advocate office is because of Tina Fontaine and stories like that. In 2004, before Tina's passing, the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs did engagement because it was a crisis back then and then once they did a report with the findings there is a recommendation for the need for restored jurisdiction of First Nations taking back their children and being able to provide the supports and preventative support within the community, the opportunities for healing. They also went to the province of Manitoba and the federal government and asked for resources so that they could start an advocacy office to start providing those supports to First Nations families. Both governments refused to come up with any resources to support this and then what happened was they went multiple times to both the province and the feds, nothing. And then when Tina passed, the Chiefs in Manitoba pooled resources to create this advocacy office on its own. And so June 1st, 2015, our doors opened and we are flooded with families and have been ever since. And so we see all of the issues and those children that have completely fallen through the cracks and it's not, there's much company in those cracks for you know thousands of First Nations children in this province.

PC: So when you look at Daphne Penrose's report, was there anything missing for you? Anything that wasn't recommended, which you think should have been?

CM: Well I think there's something that Manitoba has done its own work. And we provided a full submission to the murder in Indigenous Missing Women and Girls inquiry. We had our recommendations. We have the means to be able to do these things ourselves, however continually government funds itself to be able to give the postmortem on the misery of our First Nations People.

PC: Where do you think the federal government should fit into all this, Bill C-392, the long awaited child welfare legislation is sitting before parliament.

CM: Well again Manitoba has done its own work and this past, for the last 30 years have worked towards restored jurisdiction and they've had the capacity and developed their own Manitoba First Nations federal legislation and you know that's what we want to see happen. I know that there's this bill C-92, but we have our Manitoba-made approach because we have as you mentioned earlier in the show that we have the worst stats that need addressed. We talked about the number of missing persons, the number of children incarcerated, the number of 90 percent of the 11,000 children in care and the province keeps out throwing out the reform and to me a lot of times they're more detrimental than good. And some of them they sound good, but when you get down to the roots of things, they're not really that beneficial and that's because of the engagement with First Nations never meaningfully taken place.

PC: The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs is calling for an independent inquiry. What do you think that might accomplish beyond Daphne Penrose's report?

CM: Well I mean we need to be able to show those, do those reports ourselves and enact our own action. You know when there's all these stories yesterday in the media and what I really appreciated hearing about yesterday was all of these grassroots movement that they haven't sat around for five years and waited for a report to look for recommendations. They knew what was wrong and they started acting. So we have the creation of the First Nations family advocate and we've helped hundreds of kids go home and helped support, made a voice for our First Nations children. We've had the Bear Clan who are patrolling the streets. We have the Mama Bear Clan who are making sure children are safe and giving hope to these young keep and feeding them and showing them kindness, which you know we all take for granted, but you know. And we have the meet me at the bell tower and all of these things have given hope to our young people and they are things that have been really cost effective because these are people being generous without any resources to do it. And then you have the province of Manitoba holding the purse strings and deciding what is going to address the issues and I think it's just extremely unfair that you know you have these grassroots movements that are just taking whatever they have and fundraising to be able to protect children and you know for me I think that that's important. That those voices should be heard because they're on the ground and they see what needs to be done and you know investment needs to go there.

PC: Cora Morgan, thank you for your perspective on all of this. I really do appreciate it.

CM: Thanks so much.

PC: Bye bye.

CM: Bye bye.

PC: Cora Morgan is the First Nations Family Advocate with the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. She's in Winnipeg. If you want to add your voice to this story, you can. Please do get in touch with us. We're on Twitter @TheCurrentCBC, facebook.com/CBCTheCurrent or if you choose to send us an e-mail you can do that by going to our website, cbc.ca/thecurrent. Once you're there, click on the Contact Us link. Okay the news is next. Then can Syria's Bashar al-Assad be brought to justice in the international court? A group of Syrian refugees hope so and we'll hear about their case in our next half hour. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay, sitting in for Anna Maria Tremonti. You're listening to The Current. And we're back in just a bit.

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Syrian refugees file claim against Bashar Assad at the ICC

Guests: Ghuna Bdiwi, Payam Akhavan

PC: Hi, I'm Piya Chattopadhyay, sitting in for Anna Maria Tremonti, and you're listening to The Current.

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PC: Still to come, the deeper injustice lurking behind the headline grabbing college admissions scandal in the U.S. I'll speak with Anthony Jack, the Harvard scholar examines how elite colleges are failing disadvantaged students. But first, the people vs. Bashar al-Assad.

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Sounds from demonstrations in Syria.

PC: An excited crowd waves Syrian flags and chants that these are the final days for Bashar al-Assad, but that was in 2011, in the early days of the so-called Syrian Revolution. The conflict passes the eight year mark this month and the statistics that go with that milestone are grim. According to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, 5.6 million Syrians have fled the country. Another 6 million had been internally displaced and 400,000 Syrians are believed to have been killed in the course of the civil war. Many attempts have been made over the past eight years to hold the government of President Bashar al-Assad responsible for the death and displacement of Syrians. And last week, for the first time, law suits were submitted to the ICC, the International Criminal Court of Justice, on behalf of 28 Syrian refugees in Jordan. The refugees claim they were forced to flee Syria and they hold President Bashar al-Assad responsible for that. Toby Cadman, barrister at the Guernica Centre for International Justice, brought the claim forward to the ICC. He spoke with CBC's As It Happens about what refugees told him they experienced.

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VOICE: Certainly the victims we have ensued have effectively told a story painting the bleakest of pictures that you can imagine. The different types of torture. The mass execution of detainees and then of course those that we've spoken to that have been subjected to aerial bombardment, discriminative shooting, chemical weapons and other forms of prohibited weapons.

PC: Syrian refugees in Jordan are not the only ones looking to hold the Assad government accountable. Some Syrian lawyers in Canada are also working to address war crimes in Syria including my next guest. Ghuna Bdiwi is a lawyer and PhD candidate for international criminal law at Osgoode Hall Law School and we've reached her in Mississauga, Ontario. Hi.

GHUNA BDIWI: Hi. Good morning.

PC: What were your thoughts when you first heard a claim was filed at the International Criminal Court of Justice against the Syrian government?

GB: Well that's a moving step toward criminal justice for crimes in Syria. Typically there are certain measures to end impunity of perpetrators of atrocity crimes in Syria accountable. And one of these measures is the ICC taking into consideration that other matters like using domestic courts is impossible at the current time.

PC: What would it mean for you to see President Assad brought before the ICC?

GB: Well it sends a message to first of all to the international community like we're putting pressure on the international committee that there are actions must be taken. It also provides legitimacy to some institutions and practices like what is happening now in in Europe taking the universal jurisdiction as the basis for legal claims against al-Assad and against Syrian regime. It also provides vindication for those who call for criminal accountability. So it has a kind of symbolic value for Syrians and whomever is demanding for criminal accountability. I guess it sends a message also to the victim, recognizing their suffering and saying if we could we would hold your criminal accountable and punish them. Al-Assad at one point insulted them and this is a kind of, another message telling the victims that we are still here, we care about you. We want to hold your criminal and your perpetrators accountable.

PC: When and how did you flee your country like under what circumstances?

GB: Well I've been there before, like I spent the first year, first two years of the Syrian uprising inside Syria and I was helping the detainees and they're helping people who demanded for freedom and democracy. But at one point I had to leave because it was very hard for human rights lawyers to stay inside Syria. But we're still working from Canada, from all around the world with my colleagues, other lawyers towards implementing criminal justice for crimes in Syria.

PC: In other words, you too were forced to flee.

GB: Yes, of course.

PC: You know as we said this is the first time a claim has been filed against the Assad government at the ICC. It's been eight years. Why do you think it's taken this long?

GB: Well you know unfortunately international criminal justice is a kind of in a way or another is linked to their political situation. So because Russia and China, Iran as well is supporting al-Assad and al-Assad is you know having impunity against crimes that he committed. Having the ICC decision to look into these crimes, it really fills the immunity gap between that is missing.

PC: Ghuna Bdiwi I want to play a bit of tape for you. This is Christopher Assad, he's the past president of the Syrian Arab Association of Canada. He says this push to have Bashar al-Assad brought before the ICC is a waste of time.

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VOICE: It's frivilous. They are free to do whatever the hell they want, you know. But it's a futile thing and all it is that they are going to keep media pressure you know, which means nothing after the big victory that the Syrians have achieved in the past eight years.

PC: He claims, he calls the claim futile and frivolous. What is your response to that?

GB: Well he might be right, but I mean we have the right to fight as well. We're fighting. We're using our weapons. Our weapons are our legal tools. We are trying to push. We have witnesses, we have victims, we have we know we have reports that I mean claiming for al-Assad to be involved in these crimes. So I mean there is justice. There has to be justice there and we have our right to fill that role.

PC: Some legal scholars also say that this case is built on shaky legal ground. You're a lawyer. They say look it won't go very far. What do you say to that?

GB: Well true. I mean legally speaking there are three ways to refer this crimes to the International Criminal Court. First for Syria to ratify the ICC, which they did not do. I mean I don't think they're going to do that. Second for Syria to refer itself to the International Criminal Court. This is not, I don't think is going to happen during al-Assad's government because I al-Assad has reportedly commited crimes more than any other party on the battlefield. Like let's just take for 2018, al-Assad's claimed to be responsible for 59.79 per cent of the total killing of civilians. So which means that I don't think the Syrian government, there's no rationale to say that the Syrian government is going to refer these crimes to the ICC. Now the third way is through the United Nations Security Council, but again there are till now 12 draft resolutions that have been vetoed by al-Assad's allies, mainly Russia and China, to find any resolution for Syria. Mainly in May 2014 there was a draft resolution to refer these crimes to the ICC, but actually the draft was suggested by 60 countries to refer these crimes to the ICC, however it's also been vetoed by Russia and China. So it's a kind of deadlock. Because of this many countries went to the used the universal jurisdiction in Europe to hold perpetrators accountable. And this is I mean although this is debatable as well that it's happening. So I couldn't say that. I mean it's moving. I mean I'm very optimistic, while we, international criminal justice is not easy, it's not you know indictment straight forward path, but it's better than nothing.

PC: And there are many you know tendrils to all this and I'm going to play you another clip from Christopher Assad, the past president of the Syrian Arab Association of Canada. We had asked him what he thought of al-Assad's actions in war in Syria and here's what he had to say.

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VOICE: When you have got 150,000 Daesh people you know, ISIS fighting in between residential areas, taking people hostage. This is war. Of course it is war and it is not a very good war. And it's not Bashar al-Assad's problem. It is a war against him, against his legitimate government, against the Syrian people's will and it will be defeated. And it sure did.

PC: Okay Ghuna Bdiwi, he makes no mention of the uprising and says Assad is fighting terrorists in Syria, but he makes a point about ISIS. Would you also like to see members of ISIS held accountable for their role in what's happened in Syria?

GB: Well please, we are academics and we are lawyers. We have statistics, we have reports. Unless you refute these reports, it's okay. I mean our reports provide or international reports provide these figures. If you find similar figures from ISIS, I'm not here defending ISIS or any terrorist group, those has to be held accountable as well. But I mean al-Assad cannot be you know cannot you know we can't say that Assad is innocent. I mean I do understand many people would say I mean they have fear, especially for minorities they will fear any existence for terrorist groups, but we do as well. Like I'm Sunni and I do as well fear the existence of any terrorist groups in there. I don't want to be governed by extremists or jihadists. No I mean, but Syrians were not like this. We're actually diverse since the beginning. So please don't use that against crimes. Criminals are criminals, so we cannot change the title.

PC: Fair enough. How would you like to see Canada get involved in the push to see accountability for what's happening in Syria? What's our role in this at this point?

GB: Well let's not forget that Canada was took the lead in establishing the responsibility to protect. Holding perpetrators accountable is their responsibility to protect and that was recently announced by Canada itself, by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau by Antonio Guterres the secretary general of the United Nations. So criminal accountability is one of the measures of their responsibility to protect. Canada did a lot for international affairs, except that it's not participating in holding criminals accountable. Among refugees that came to Syria recently since 2014 to now, we can find many perpetrators, we can find many victims and we can find many witnesses. Canada should take similar steps to what is happening in Europe. We're not less.I mean we always fight for democracy, for the rule of law. Let's not be silent now. Let's do something toward criminal accontability. And I think Professor Akhavan wrote a lot about how Canada can't participate in intertnational and how Canada can do more for Syrian victims.

PC: We're going to speak with him in just a second. Ghuna Bdiwi thank you very much for your time.

GB: Thank you.

PC: Ghuna Bdiwi is a Syrian-Canadian refugee. She's also a lawyer and PhD candidate for international criminal law at Osgoode Hall Law School. She was in Mississauga, Ontario. Well my next guest knows all too well how slowly the wheels of international justice can turn. Payam Akhavan is a professor of law at McGill University in Montreal and a former UN prosecutor at the War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands. He's in Montreal. Hi.

PAYAM AKHAVAN: Good morning Piya.

PC: There is a lot to unpack here. First of all though, what do you make of this claim being brought against Bashar al-Assad at the ICC. Does it have any teeth?

PA: I think that as the former guest explained, the ideal situation would be if the UN Security Council referred the situation in Syria to the International Criminal Court, which it has failed to do because of the vetoes of China and Russia. So now the proponents of international justice are left with creative lawyering, trying to figure out how the court can be vested with jurisdiction and this strategy which this group has pursued is actually based on an earlier decision of the court in September of 2018 dealing with the situation of the Rohingyas. And the Rohingyas are persecuted in Myanmar, which is not like Syria, not a party to the statute of the International Criminal Court, but they were displaced or deported to Bangladesh, which is a party to the court statute. So the decision of the court provided that so long as one part of the crime of deportation which is being forced across an international boundary occurs on the territory of a state party then the court has jurisdiction. So exploiting that precedence and trying to apply to Syria because many of the Syrian refugees have been displaced to Jordan, which does recognize the court's jurisdiction.

PC: Because Syria is not a signatory to the ICC, but Jordan is.

PA: Exactly. So while I'm completely sympathetic to these efforts I'm afraid it's a very weak case because when does Schall basis for the court's jurisdiction is the crime of deportation. Then you cannot simply establish the jurisdiction based on the fact that people have been displaced as a result of war and even atrocities. There has to be proof of a specific intention not simply to forcibly displace people but to displace them across an international boundary. So it's a very thin slice of the crime base and a very specific and narrow basis for jurisdiction. But having said that as the previous speaker said, something is is better than nothing. The world has failed the Syrian people. There is no other basis for international criminal justice. So I commend these efforts but in the free they will get far. In addition to the fact that the ICC has very limited resources and is notoriously slow, which further complicates the situation.

PC: So there have been other attempts at holding those accused of being responsible for atrocities. For example last month Germany arrested a high ranking Syrian intelligence officer and two lower level officers in Germany. How likely is it that we may see more of these types of arrests and trying to bring people to justice?

PA: As you pointed out in Germany actually managed to arrest a quite senior figure senior Syrian intelligence officer who was in charge of the General Intelligence Directorate prison where some 2000 people were tortured between 2011 and in 2012 and one of his accomplices was also arrested. So I think that in Canada we need to invest resources to investigate who among those that have come to Canada from Syria, could be implicated in such crimes. I would also add that beyond initiating prosecutions where you have custody of the accused. Germany also issued an arrest warrant against a Jummy whose son who was head of the Syrian air force intelligence quite a notorious figure in the torture and murder of dissidents. So there is more that could be done using national courts based on universal jurisdiction.

PC: So let's talk about that you suggest Canada could play here. What mechanisms can we use in Canada to hold people accountable?

PA: Well the Department of Justice has a unit that deals with crimes against humanity and war crimes and Canada adopted the crimes against humanity war crimes act in the year 2000 following its ratification of the ICC statute. The problem is that budgeter unit is starved of resources in almost 20 years. There have been only two prosecutions against Rwandan genocide. One of which against resulted in a conviction. The other of which resulted in acquittal. So giving more resources to the Department of Justice for dealing with these issues would certainly help. I should also add that there is something which Canada can do which is to bring a case not before the International Criminal Court which doesn't have jurisdiction but before the International Court of Justice it is still possible to hold the Syrian government accountable for its failure to prosecute crimes against humanity for example under the 1984 U.N. Convention Against Torture. And Syria recognizes in fact the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice to settle disputes or with a crime of torture. So there is more that could be done and I'm afraid that you know the issue has already been swept under the carpet and forgotten. So it's very important to remind the international community that these crimes remain unaddressed.

PC: And to that point, the UN, the United Nations has stepped up efforts to assemble evidence that could support criminal prosecutions. Is that significant to you?

PA: Yes after the Security Council failed to take action the UN General Assembly, where the permanent members of the Security Council don't have veto power, established an independent investigative mechanism which has been collecting evidence of these crimes. And I think that it is important at least to preserve the evidence so that in the future if an opportunity arises, at least we have the evidence and you know it's said that justice delayed is justice denied. I think justice delayed is justice delivered. We're in international criminal justice. You always have to play the long game. And remember that those that are in power today may not be in power tomorrow. So the message has to be that one way or the other you will be held to account. Let's not forget that Nazi war criminals were often arrested you know decades after the Holocaust and more recently in the Yugoslav War Crimes Tribunal where I worked for several years. It took us 16 years to arrest the general and the notorious architects of the genocide. So we have to be patient and persistent.

PC: And Payam Akhavan as you say, you know more than anyonr else, that it is can take and does take a very long time to bring perpetrators to justice. However in your experience as a war crimes prosecutor you have seen victims being able to get up there and give testimony against their perpetrators many many years later. How important is that to the healing process because this isn't just about putting someone in jail or in prison and behind bars, this is a more complex thing than that.

PA: That's a very good point. We need to remember that when you have this kind of collective trauma there has to be a catharsis. Those wounds have to heal. What future is there for a Syria if these crimes are not least recognized? So in addition to criminal prosecutions I think some stold should be given to some sort of a truth commission even if it has to be established in exile as we did for many of the victims of the atrocities in my old country of origin Iran and the importance of telling the truth is that it creates a different political space. Speaking truth to justice is the least that can be done and the advantage of the Truth Commission is that it is victim based, it's about the stories of the victims whereas the criminal trial is about the accused person. So there are many things that could be done to memorialize these crimes to recognize historical truth and at least to create hope that these crimes will never be repeated again in Syria.

PC: Do you see and document them, do you see something like that happening, given the number of Syrians that have been made refugees around the world. Could you see some kind of truth commission in exile being created?

PA: Yes because this is exactly what we did with the victims of Iran's mass executions of political prisoners. Back in 2012 we established a a high profile Truth Commission with prominent judges and prosecutors and a hundred witnesses whose testimony was broadcast by satellite television into Iran and after 25 years of denial, the Iranian government was finally forced to recognize the fact of the mass executions. So I think that the Syrian diasphora could still do a lot, despite all of these constraints and I think it's very important for similarly situated refugees and people in exile to share notes and collaborate on these issues.

PC: Payam Akhavan, it's been nice to talk to you. Thank you.

PA: Thank you.

PC: Payam Akhavan is a professor of law at McGill University in Montreal and a former UN prosecutor. He was in Montreal. If you want to weigh in on this story, if you think that Bashar al-Assad will ever be tried at the ICC, the International Criminal Court or what other alternatives there may be to seek justice for Syrian refugees and others around the world, please do get in touch with us. You can go to our website cbc.ca/thecurrent to e-mail us and once you're there you can click on the Contact Us link. You can tweet us. Our handle is @TheCurrentCBC. My personal handle is @Piya. Or you can post on Facebook by going to facebook.com/CBCTheCurrent. OK. Coming up in our next half hour, what the college admissions scam in the United States really says about access to higher education and who gets in and why. We'll talk about that, as well, a plea from a Halifax doctor who has patients choosing palliative care because they can't afford the cost of life saving surgery in Canada's biggest city. We'll talk about both those things when The Current returns. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay, sitting in for Anna Maria Tremonti, and you're listening to The Current. We're back in just a bit.

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'A mirror on America': How the U.S. college admissions scam reveals pervasive inequality in society

Guests: Anthony Jack

PC: Hello again. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay and you're listening to The Current.

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VOICE: Make no mistake. This is not a case where parents were acting in the best interests of the children. This is a case where they flaunted their wealth, sparing no expense to cheat the system so they could set their children up for success with the best education money could buy. Literally. Some spent anywhere from $200,000 to $6.5 million dollars for guaranteed admission.

PC: That's Joseph Bonavolonta of the FBI with a series of pretty stunning allegations. An organization called "The Key" is accused of helping parents bribe coaches to pretend their kids were athletic stars and bribe SAT proctors to let impostors write tests. Bonavolonta says it is the biggest college admissions bust the FBI has ever made. And among those facing charges are some big bold faced names. They include celebrities like Felicity Huffman, star of Desperate Housewives and Canadian philanthropist, David Sidoo, who used to play football for the BC Lions and the Saskatchewan Roughriders. But for people like my next guest, these revelations are just one example of how the rich game the college system. Anthony Jack is a graduate of Harvard and now an assistant professor of education there. His new book is The Privileged Poor: How Elite Colleges Are Failing Disadvantaged Students. And he joins me from Cambridge, Massachusetts. Hello.

ANTHONY JACK: Hi Piya, thank you for having me.

PC: Thank you for being with us. When you saw the news break yesterday about this alleged bribery scam, you thought what?

AJ: What happens in the dark comes to the light. This to me is the tip of the iceberg about how poverty and privilege gets played out in higher education.

PC: Okay so you wrote a whole book on that, but help me get through the broad strokes of it. What do you mean when you say that?

AJ: I mean because the fact of the matter is this kind of system in which parents are going above and beyond and even crossing into illegal channels to get their children into the schools they want, this started long before. It starts with the way in which parents try to whore opportunities and resources for their kids and the more power and money that you have, the more you're able to do that. Think about this from the prospects of the neighborhood these parents choose, the schools, the extra money they put into tutors, the learning academies, all of those things. This is part of a larger system of wealth, the power that wealth has in securing opportunities and resources for their children. I think this is the tip of the iceberg that kind of came up above the surface, that we get to see and see in a rather glorious way, given that the spectacle of people that paid so much money to guarantee admission and then the blatant cheating that is going on. But to me this is part of a larger system of parents hoarding opportunities and resources for their kids that money allows them to do so.

PC: You know there's kind of two things here. There's one people having the means to afford the tutors and help their own children get better and write their own exams and get into the colleges. And then there's these allegations, which is something quite different. It's illegal. It's bribing. It's paying money. It's pay to play stuff and there has been the argument there, I'm sure there will be the argument maybe even courts that look the motivation of the accused. They just wanted the best for their children. They might have gone about it the wrong way, but you know is this just a few bad actors gaming the system or as you say is this much larger and if it is the tip of the iceberg, what else is beneath the water?

AJ: Yeah, I'm not really buying the argument of this is parents doing the best for their kids, partly because we and it's very interesting that we give this kind of pass when it comes to wealthy parents when they get their hand caught in the cookie jar, but we never do this when parents have to work two or three jobs and they slip and miss something for their kids and child welfare services take them. We don't say anything when low income families you know for example have . Frozen out we have to do desperate measures where they either steal food for their families and get caught. We don't ever say they were doing the best for their kids. These people were flaunting their wealth in a reason why I can make this to the kind of concern for she was not my role. Talk about the mechanics starlet cultivation. The next generation is because as part of a larger system of life we deserve better. So we spend to get back in when there actually could not suffice. Pies were giving their children the score as they say they knew it. They took it to the next level. So I see it it to a larger system. Lets try to beat lets try to beat the game lets try to be the winner at all costs. Now people are getting caught doing illegal stuff. Cost but still part of a larger chain of how parents of means I take it up every single week every single opportunity to give their children the edge in this in this case that was guaranteed admission. But I dont see this as something separate because I dont want people to begin to give people what the clapping is is by giving people a power that just plays into how it was worked out with them they give a pair because all they really want their kids to go to school. Well what about the people who want children to eat or who their children to have electricity. We don't do that and it just plays into how privilege works in America.

PC: You know since this story broke yesterday and it has happened before, but it was really amplified yesterday, the number of people speaking out on social media, especially academics and students who are non-white about their experiences experiences having been at these elite schools. The places like the one you graduated from and work at Harvard and all these other ones and having their right to be there at these elite schools questioned. Is that something that resonates with you?

AJ: Oh yes. I remember my freshman year. I went to Amherst College here in Massachusetts. First year college student, first low income family and I remember within the first month I had been called an affirmative action baby or an affirmative action admittant at least three times. So this is something that people said like I took a spot and a lot of the students who I spoke with as part of the project that culminated in the privileged poor, but also just people who I mentor, a lot of people have said similar things. Oh you took a spot from a more qualified applicant. You got in because you were black. You got in because you were Latino and like people make statements like that, but nowhere, nowhere did I see oh you got in because you were rich, as a demonizing factor for why someone got in. There's some talk about athletes in that conversation, but also it's very interesting that it's usually the black athletes who get that statement and not the white. It's usually the black basketball or black football players, not the white lacrosse players or the white people who do crew. And so it's very very interesting that this is also as much as it is about class, it is also racialized in that way as well. Yeah so it's an experience that I know firsthand and from my own experience, but also from the students who I mentor.

PC: You know this all fits into the larger conversation context about you university and college admissions in the United States and about the elite schools being mostly white, that the academics are mostly white, the student body is mostly white, they mostly come from privileged and wealthy backgrounds. So given yesterday's thing what is worrying you most when you add what happened yesterday, again allegations at this point, we'll see what happens, but you add that into the mix.

AJ: Well what worries me the most is how meritocracy or this myth of meritocracy is still going to live out. It's still going to be not questioned like people think that they got in because of their hard work. I think what we're gonna see is a whole bunch of defenses of the students who are on the campus who come from wealthier backgrounds still and ignoring or not paying attention to the experience of lower income students. I think we will have a very very tense environment where the most privileged students are going to say that this is a test now and I think you know she didn't respond quicker than they do to the law. It's hard to do as an arm like the kind of fraternal protection that happens to those who actually don't need it. But what I worry is that we will actually have a conversation that exposes them. What makes what I want to have a final conversation about how we need this retired meritocracy and that is not going to happen because it doesn't matter what I mean we've got to keep it keep usually like old timers mainly because they're hard work because really what this scandal is to me is a mirror on America. It is not only exposing the myth of meritocracy, but it is showing just how pervasive inequality is in our society and especially how it shapes not just who goes to college, but also as I really focus on, what happens once they get there. Because this is really what it's showing, just like the pervasive power of privilege in this country.

PC: What needs to change to make access to higher education more fair? You know aside from people not being able to bribe their way into their kids way into college. What else needs to change.

AJ: I think we need to go back to, we need to boast affirmative action in very real ways at the college level. We need to actually take into consideration the way in which inequality in this country shapes how to students make it to college. We need to pay attention to concentrated poverty and joblessness and all those kinds of things, that leaves students with different leads students to have different opportunities to express themselves and have the resources to go to college. We actually need to take affirmative action and say look there are those individuals who'd rather. Let me take that back. There's an old fact. There's an old saying that we always know. Talent is equally distributed across the country, but opportunity is not. Affirmative action begins to address some of that inequality, but I think it goes beyond opening the doors to college. We actually need reform in our neighborhoods and schools because a lot of what to me this also highlights is I think about all the students who I interviewed who had to overcome tremendous obstacles just to make it into college. I interviewed students who wrote their applications on smartphones because they didn't have internet at home, who were homeless at the time they were applying to school and most of their high school career, who overcame all these tremendous obstacles because there was just no money, no support either in their families or in their neighborhoods or even in their schools to apply to college and yet we're supposed to assume it's an equal playing field? So it's one thing to open the doors to colleges, but if the kind of inequality that narrows the funnel long before you actually even apply to a college, that needs to be addressed as well.

PC: Anthony Jack, I really appreciate your context for all of this. Thank you for talking to me today.

AJ: Alright, thank you for having me.

PC: Anthony Jack is an assistant professor of education at Harvard University. He is also the author of The Privileged Poor: How Elite Colleges Are Failing Disadvantaged Students and we reached him in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

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Doctor forced to tell lung-transplant patients to fundraise to pay for life-saving treatment

Guests: Dr. Meredith Chiasson

PC: I'm Piya Chattopadhyay, sitting in for Anna Maria Tremonti, and this is The Current.

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VOICE: Although I wanted the lung transplant. All the stress that it puts on your finances, it was becoming a lot and people were like we live in Canada, isn't it free? Well yes, the surgery is free, however all your other expenses are not.

PC: Natalie Jarvis has a condition which scars her lung and she needs a double lung transplant in order to survive. But in January at just 42-years-old, Ms. Jarvis made the decision to die instead. It wasn't the operation itself that forced her to make that harrowing choice, it was that Ms. Jarvis, a call centre worker, didn't have the money to pay for all the associated costs that come with the surgery and she feared her mom would lose their home trying to help her pay.

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VOICE: I felt like I was becoming a burden to people. It was a really rough decision and I was ready to just call it quits and give up.

PC: Miss Jarvis is from Nova Scotia and like other Atlanta Canadians who need lung transplants she must travel to Toronto, to the General Hospital for that transplant. But while the cost of the operation is covered, the cost of moving to Toronto for months to prepare for it and staying for the recovery is not fully covered. Dr. Meredith Chiasson is Natalie Jarvis' respirologist. She treats all lung transplant candidates in both Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island and we've reached her in Halifax. Hello.

MEREDITH CHIASSON: Good morning.

PC: What is it like for you to hear patient saying I think I'm going to choose death over spending thousands of dollars to get a transplant that will likely save my life?

MC: It's difficult, in fact I'm a little teary right now just because it's been a while since I've talked to Natalie. Yeah it's really tough for me to sit in front of them and know that they have a condition that's going to end their life and that there is a treatment for them, but that there's this very large barrier. I tell all my patients they need about $10,000 to be able to go and to live in Toronto for the period before their lung transplant and afterwards and for most of my patients that becomes the focal point of our discussion after that because they just don't have it.

PC: And how many patients would you say over the last couple of years have had similar concerns to the ones we've heard Natalie mention there?

MC: This year in particular it's every patient. It's just gotten that much more expensive to live in Toronto. Our government gives $1500 per month, which is generous and I'm sure people hearing this say that's fabulous, that's so great our government does that and that's how much they've been giving for the past 10 years and it used to cover people completely and there was no financial concerns with having to relocate for their transplant. But it now costs about $2500 to live in Toronto per month. And so I tell my patients you're out of pocket about a thousand dollars a month above and beyond what our government provides and most people will be there six to 12 months. So when you do the math, they're out of pocket quite a bit and my patients don't have it.

PC: Okay let's just take a step back. Why do patients have to move to Toronto to get a lung transplant. Are there no lung transplants done in Atlantic Canada?

MC: There are not. There are actually only four centres in all of Canada that do lung transplants. There's Vancouver, Edmonton, Toronto and Montreal and so it's not just a problem from the Atlantic Canada patients. There are a lot of patients across Canada that have to move and have to have the financial burden that comes with that.

PC: Okay and you said they have to come here months before their surgery is scheduled, why is that?

MC: They have to wait. They need to get a match and so some people in fact have only waited a few weeks, which is fantastic. I'm always excited when I get that news. And unfortunately some people who either have a smaller body size or a rare blood type will wait longer, especially if they're not that sick because it's not a first come, first serve basis. The sickest people get moved to the front of the list.

PC: And you have to be here in Toronto because once you get a you know a match, it's go time.

MC: It is yeah. We do have a program that we've just started up where people can wait in Nova Scotia, which helps. And the main reason we've done that is that Toronto recognizes the burden of cost of living in downtown Toronto. But there is strict criteria on who can weight at home in Nova Scotia as opposed to who's highly recommended to move to wait.

PC: And as you say rent is very expensive in Toronto. What other kinds of costs are people facing when they get here?

MC: Well really the two other costs that I discuss with my patients one is the emotional cost when they're at their sickest and their weakest and their most vulnerable Im asking them to move halfway across our country and some people have never left Nova Scotia and taking them away from their friends and their family when they really need them the most. And there is the chance that they could die in Toronto without actually getting a transplant and again asking them to risk that possibility away from all their support people. And the other financial burden on top of that just rent cost means that some of my patients are young and the support person that they need to go with I mean every patient has to have a support person sometimes their support person is their main breadwinner and they have to quit their job in order to act as the support person, so they really take these big financial hits in order to do this.

PC: So even adults who are coming to and having to wait for a lung transplant, they have to bring someone else with them?

MC: They do.

PC: Why?

MC: The main problem is if they get sick or while waiting and a good proportion of them do, Toronto doesn't have the resources to take care of them. So if they can't do their own grocery shopping or meal preparation try not to have to admit them to hospital just to take care of them because they've gotten too sick to do their basic day to day necessities. So they need a support person who can do their grocery shopping and meal preparation and help them bathe and dress if they get sick at that point before they're transplanted.

PC: So it's not just the rent cost and you said the government of Nova Scotia gives you $1500, it's about having a partner or someone else come with you and perhaps not have an income. There's food, there's travel, there's all of those things. It is more than ten thousand dollars a year that you suggest to your patients they should have, yeah?

MC: I say at a bare minimum that they need ten thousand dollars and case by case we kind of discuss it further. If the support person is not working, if they're already retired, then they're really just looking at that thousand dollars out of pocket expense because groceries and things like that are things they would have bought in Nova Scotia anyway. So for some people it really does just come to that thousand dollars per month for rent, but for other people it's immense and you don't know what to say to them other than it's a hard choice, but I hope you choose to live.

PC: That's a conversation in your office that you have with people?

MC: Yes.

PC: You mention that the government of Nova Scotia gives $1500 a month. You treat all lung transplant candidates also from Prince Edward Island. How much do they get?

MC: A thousand dollars. So they are even worse off than us.

PC: And how does that compare to other provinces? Are other provinces say the ones that are you know sending people to Alberta or Montreal, do they fund things better? More?

MC: Well it's even harder. In fact, I dont know every province, exactly what they give. But for instance, people in Ontario, if they're in Northern Ontario and they have to move, their province gives them nothing because they're still within their same province and most provinces only fund for things that the patient has to leave the province to get access to. So you know the Northern Ontario people get nothing in order to move. New Brunswick gives $1500 per month, but if the patient gets admitted to hospital, they cut off the funding. So again a little worse off than our Nova Scotia patient. So for sure I have to acknowledge the fact that our Nova Scotia government is generous with the $1500 per month, but I'm working very hard to get them to acknowledge that at this point it's become a barrier again and we have people who are deciding not to do it and cost should not be part of their decision.

PC: You know you said you tell your patients look I know this is going to be financially difficult, but I would suggest that you choose to live and take the financial hit. Have you had patients who have chosen to die, rather than get a transplant because of money?

MC: Yes I have, unfortunately. In the last two years, it's the only time this has happened, but I've now had three patients from Nova Scotia who have decided not to go.

PC: And they've passed away?

MC: Not yet, but coming to the end of their life.

PC: You were able to convince Natalie Jarvis to change her mind and go to Toronto for the operation. So what'd you say to her that changed her mind?

MC: In the end I think we just kept talking. I normalized it for her. I told her that almost everybody in her same position has the same struggles and for years they're not sure they're going to make it in terms of the finances that most people fund raise and most people have been very successful. The one thing I'm absolutely amazed at is the generosity of people in Nova Scotia. Almost every one of my patients who have gone out and done fund raising has fund raised the money that they require. I do have patients that are uncomfortable with that idea and feel that it's begging or asking for a handout from people who really can't afford it and then their pride won't allow them to do that and then they look for other ways to get the money together, but yeah I was just trying to talk her through the different options of what other people have done to get the money.

PC: And Natalie Jarvis did some community fund raising. She is in Toronto now with her mom. And they're staying in the cheapest place that they could find, which is former university dorm room and I just want to play a bit of tape of her talking about that.

[sc].

VOICE: I'm tough and you know if don't give up the fight then I can get through this, which is what I'm planning to do.

PC: Dr. Chiasson, a dorm room doesn't sound like the most comfortable place for such a sick woman, despite her saying you know I'm going to get through this. I'm going to push through and it's okay.

MC: Yeah I'm kind of proud of her, I have to say. She's someone who's just saying I'm getting up there and I'm getting this done and I'm going to do it any way I can. I'm going to find the cheapest possible way to do it so that I'm not too much of a burden on my loved ones or come out with too much debt after this, but I have to try and dig my way out. So I'm really proud of her. Good for her.

PC: And you know you said that other patients have also fundraised and we heard Natalie off the top how people are surprising, what do you mean you got to pay for your associated medical costs when you need a lifesaving lung transplant. What is your view on patients having to fundraise or choosing to fundraise to be able to afford a transplant?

MC: I hate it. I'm not going to lie. I tell every single one of them that they are probably going to have to do it unless they're independently wealthy and there's not many of my patients that are. It's a reality and in order for me to get them there and that's what I have to do. I have to get them to Toronto, so they can have the surgery and I tell them that's the reality of the situation we're in right now. You are going to have to do fund raising or something else to come up with this money because right now it's not coming from our government. I'm going to continue working for that and advocate for my patients, but I hate having to tell them that right now when you can barely speak a full sentence, I need you to go out and pound the pavement to try and earn money so you can live. It's a very difficult conversation and it takes away from the other conversations that we need to be having/ it really does become the focal point from the point the time I mention it onwards. I have a hard time getting them to listen to some of the other things that I need them to hear just so they can decide if they really do want a transplant. We need to talk about the drugs they have to take and the side effects and survival after a lung transplant. There's a big conversation we need to have about transplants, but all they focus on is the money.

PC: Is this as and I don't want to say simple as, but is the answer the governments just need to give people more money to be able to afford to live in Toronto while they wait for their transplant?

MC: I do think we need to increase the funding. I think the government needs to recognize that this is a service we don't provide in Nova Scotia and we're not going to be providing in the near future. And if it's a service that we feel our patients should have access to, then we need to make sure all our patients can have access to that, not just the rich patients.

PC: Dr. Chiasson, thank you for telling us about this today. I appreciate your time.

MC: Thank you very much. I'm very happy that you're bringing some light to this difficult situation.

PC: Dr. Meredith Chiasson is a respirologist in Halifax and she treats all patients in Nova Scotia and PEI who are preparing for a lung transplant. Well I want to let you know about the story we have in the works for tomorrow's show, where I will be talking to the director of a new CBC TV documentary about the changing face of farming in Canada, specifically the growing Chinese investment in Canadian agriculture. So from the bread basket of Saskatchewan to an Ontario winery bought by Chinese owners, we're going to find out how foreign investment is affecting Canada's farming communities and what it means to a Chinese-Canadian family who farms in Saskatchewan as well. That is up here tomorrow on The Current. But that is The Current for today. Stay tuned to Radio One for Q. Superstar Shawn Mendes is on the show. He's got six nominations going into this weekend's Juno Awards. Remember you can always take The Current with you on the go by going to the CBC Radio app. It is free from the App Store or Google Play. Finally for us today, after our conversation about the great American college admissions scandal, let us end things off with some music inspired by one artists' decision to take a pass on school. This is Kanye West. The song is "School Spirit." It's from his 2004 album, The College Dropout. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay, thanks for lending us your ear here on The Current.

[Song: "School Spirit" by Kanye West]

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Mar. 13, 2019 episode transcript

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