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The AIH Transcript for March 11, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight...

CO: Grounds for grounding. Just months after a deadly crash in Indonesia, the same model of airplane crashes in Ethiopia, killing 157 people. And our guest says it's time all Boeing 737 Max 8s be grounded.

JD: The loss of a colossus. Canadian Nigerian professor Pius Adesanmi was among the victims of that crash -- our guest says the man known as Nigeria's "god of satire" was a giant among intellectuals.

CO: Uploaded questions. Andy Parker says Google is profiting from people posting conspiracy videos on Youtube about the shooting death of his daughter -- and the company needs to shut them down.

JD: No power to the people. Amid on-and-off blackouts throughout Venezuela, a young activist tells us gangs are looting stores -- and people are dying in hospitals.

CO: Putting the "oar" in "extraordinary." Well, Lee Spencer put both oars in -- becoming the first person with a disability to row across the Atlantic solo, and he shattered the world record.

JD: And holding patter. A doctor got so sick of hearing a pharmacy chain's bad hold music that he issued a public plea -- so the chain's latest announcement is music to his ears. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that guesses he made a series of judgment calls.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Countries should ground Boeing 737s after Ethiopian plane crash, says aviation expert

Ethiopian Crash: Pius Adesanmi

Guest: Lola Shoenyin

JD: It was a routine flight from Addis Ababa to Nairobi. But six minutes after takeoff, it crashed. 157 passengers on board that Ethiopian Airlines flight died -- including 18 from Canada. Pius Adesanmi, a Canadian-Nigerian academic and author, was on that flight. He was the director of Carleton University's Institute of African Studies, and a prolific columnist and satirist in Nigerian media. Lola Shoneyin is a Nigerian poet, and a close friend of Pius Adesanmi. We reached her in Lagos.

CO: Lola first of all I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

LOLA SHONEYIN: Thank you so much. We're all finding different ways of coping. It's been a difficult 24 hours.

CO: It seems from everything I'm reading about Pius -- is that this is a loss to so many people -- a loss to the world.

LS: It's a huge loss. It's a huge loss to the literary community in Africa, and I suppose extending to Canada. It's a horrific loss for journalism. And of course given that he was teaching at the Carleton University -- academic world, I'm sure will miss him as well. I mean he was such a vibrant and such a bright human being. I have never known him to be any different.

CO: How did you learn that he was among those who died on that plane?

LS: Well it was quite strange because I'd seen a post on Twitter about the crash. And I kind of comment, I'm sorry for the lives lost. It was on my way back to Lagos that I got a call from a friend of mine who asked if I knew what had happened to Pius. And I was just like, what are you talking about? What's wrong with Pius? Has he got in trouble? You know is he having a go at some government official again -- and it all has kind of blown up you know. And then she said no -- they're saying that there was a Nigerian in the crash. My heart just kind of jumped out of my mouth, but thrust it back. And I just thought okay what's the best thing at this point? Around 6 o'clock my friend called me from London to tell me that you know he had confirmed that it was Pius.

CO: Then we started to learn about this man who was well-known in Ottawa, in academic circles in Canada, for just being an extraordinary professor and an intellectual. But then as we started learning more about him it seemed as though there was more than one person. What he was accomplishing as an author, as a satirist, as a columnist in Nigeria, contributing to political life there while teaching in Canada. This man was extraordinary.

LS: He was. It was like he was on some sort of extraordinary mission. Like he had so much that he had to accomplish because we're seeing the columns in Nigeria, we're seeing activity on social media. So he's on Twitter. He's on Facebook. And it's every day. And then it's the books that are coming out. Like every other year there's a book. And then I read this list -- I was looking for a biography and I was looking at the list of academic papers that this young man has produced over the years -- and you start to ask yourself, how did he track all that in into the number of years that he lived? I've known him 25 years. And there was a time when we were the youngest two in like the literary community -- Ibadan/Lagos literary community -- and we would listen to a lot of these you know older poets. Everybody wanted to be a poet at that time. And we would say, oh my you know we're going to work hard, we're going to write books, and then we're going to become international authors. We used to laugh and say we'll be so famous that we'll be going from capital to capital -- and then when we pass each other you know in the clouds we will wave goodbye you go from one airplane to the other.

CO: But as you describe him -- people might not understand a whole part of him. It's very important. He was considered to be Nigeria's god of satire. He sounds very serious, very driven, but he was very funny. I mean these pieces that he was writing -- these satirical letters, political articles, he was writing about Nigerian politics, while they're biting but hilarious at the same time, aren't they?

LS: He was so funny. You know I try to think, okay what is the endearing, what is the one thing about this boy that I have that I'm going to kind of keep? The thing that kept coming back to me was the sound of his laughter. I mean he had this high pitched-loud laugh. You know it was so contagious. But it wasn't just the laughter -- it was this guy. He would [inaudible] entire torso would sway side to side, and he would be swinging on his feet. He was a big character. He had a big personality -- a massive, huge, large heart. But I think he must have realized how Nigerians and Africans kind response to humour. And so he decided to perhaps use satire as one of his tool.

CO: You compared yourselves to being Siamese twins -- you were very close as you were mentioning. What was your friendship with Pius like?

LS: He came up with that. My birthday is on the 26th of February -- his is on the 27th (Feb). And he would always look at me and hug me really close like side-to-side, and say we are Siamese twins. The thing is I learned quite early on that Pius wasn't the kind of friend that you know if you're possessed as like I am -- you almost want to have him to your yourself. So when you are together in the room because you don't see him often I want to sit next to him and just have a chat. But as I got older it became very clear to me that Pius belonged to the world. He was just too big.

CO: Now that big mind, that big heart, big laugh...it's all gone.

LS: Yeah. But you know the thing is Pius will be remembered because we have those words of his -- that he gave us. It was automatic for him to have a thought and to put it down. So you get the sense that in terms of the way he felt about the political landscape, about Nigeria, about governance, about Africa -- all his thoughts are with us. We have a lot of them. So it is now for us to do what we can with it -- to reflect on his word. And I think that's a powerful thing.

CO: Lola -- what an extraordinary man. And I appreciate so much that you would share your knowledge and your memories of him -- and as you say he's not gone.

LS: No -- never.

CO: Thank you.

LS: Thank you so much. Thanks. Nice to talk to you.

JD: Lola Shoneyin is a Nigerian poet, and a close friend of Pius Adesanmi. He was among 157 passengers who were killed in a plane crash yesterday in Ethiopia. We reached Ms. Shoneyin in Lagos. It is still not known what caused the crash of the Ethiopian Airlines jet.

Ethiopian Crash: Expert

Guest: Mary Schiavo

JD: But some are not waiting before they take action. A number of countries including China have now grounded their fleets of Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft. Because this crash is similar to the crash of the same type of aircraft in Indonesia in October. Mary Schiavo is the former Inspector General of the U.S. Department of Transportation -- also a pilot. We reached Ms. Schiavo in Charleston, South Carolina.

CO: Ms. Schiavo so far we have seen China and Indonesia take this major step of grounding this Boeing aircraft -- the 737 Max -- do you agree with that step?

MARY SCHIAVO: Well certainly yes. First of all with Indonesia -- Lion Air was the airline in October that had a fatal crash of a 737 Max. And although the 737 Max makes up a large part of their fleet -- certainly they could not stand and no one could stand another fatal lost. So the time is necessary to stand down, make sure the training is in place, and really wait to see what will come out of the black boxes which they have. It just makes sense to have a stand down time to see what the black boxes will reveal about the cause of this most recent crash. I think it makes a lot of sense.

CO: Okay. Can you tell us a bit more about what is similar about these two? Because they were both relatively new aircraft -- they only had been out for a couple of months in the case of the Lion aircraft, and they had just been in their ascent before they had the crash. So what is similar about these two crashes?

MS: There's so many things similar which is why I think the countries that have grounded the plane have done so. The plane is about the same age. Both planes were on takeoff. Both were very close in air speed when this happened. Both of the pilots had called out that they had a mechanical problem. But there are some differences as well: on the Lion Air crash the plane had a series of porpoising meaning the plane pushed the nose down, the pilot pulls the nose up -- back and forth back and forth. And then finally what happened is the aircraft went full nose down and the airplane literally flew itself into the ground. And a human body -- two humans in the cockpit cannot overcome a full trim down. It takes too much body strength. And this plane what it looks like -- and this is just from the radar tracings, but they should have the data from the black boxes very soon -- it looks like the plane had one dip in its altitude -- it might signify that it was a nose down. And then it was a dramatic uptick -- a very sharp increase in altitude and it actually looks like it pulled up very sharply. And then it looks like what we call an aerodynamic stall --the airplane was going up too high or too steep of an angle -- and then had a stall and fell into the ground. So there are differences and there are similarities but the age of the plane, the exact same model, the same phase, the flight, makes everyone very suspicious and very nervous.

CO: What did Boeing do in response to the crash in October of the Lion Air accident? Did they change anything -- was there any revision of the design of that aircraft?

MS: They didn't change the design of the plane. They didn't change what we call the flight laws -- in other words the computer laws that are programmed into the computer. And they left the plane as it is. In other words this MCAS system is what it's called -- it pushes the nose down if the aircraft senses that it needs to do that. So they didn't change that. What they did change is they changed the manuals and they put out a directive -- a warning -- that every pilot that flies these should have this additional training and how to spot when this is occurring because you know there is no warning like this -- it says, warning MCAS is going to cause your plane to crash. But how they could detect when this might be occurring and what to do about it. So they changed the manuals and they encourage training.

CO: But there are some sort of commands in this plane that can override the pilot, right? That the commands issued by the plane itself bypassed or can bypass the pilot's input. So what is that all about?

MS: Well you know that I think is probably the biggest question that we have -- and I think aviation is at a crossroads because to have a plane out there that says the pilot is secondary, you know this is really kind of crossing over into the area of drones. I mean we expect our pilots to be able to make intelligent human decisions and say wait a minute I'm going to fly this plane out of this mess. But now there is you know this plane -- the plane will put the nose down, and even if the pilot pulls the nose back up -- the answer is to turn off that system. So yes, it will override the pilot. But Boeing says the pilot can turn off the system.

CO: I can appreciate this is difficult but can you imagine what would have been going on in this cockpit if indeed these pilots were having to fight against that computerized response by the plane?

MS: Every imaginable warning alarm in the cockpit was going off. There would be air speed warnings. That cockpit was a very scary-noisy place. And remember these pilots were just a couple thousand feet off the ground. When you're that close to the ground and still on your takeoff climb out -- you don't have a lot of time and you don't have a lot of air space. And so it was indeed -- I'm sure -- a very terrifying flight.

CO: What do you think Boeing must do? I mean they have a lot invested in this aircraft -- the industry has been looking for a plane like this. Airbus is a big competitor. But what should Boeing be doing at this point?

MS: Well I think if it's the same thing -- now if it's something entirely different and the Lion Air or the post Lion Air they fixed it, then you know it is something entirely different. But if it is the same issue -- and the issue stems back to the bigger, more powerful, more efficient, engines on the old 737 airframe. That's really what happened -- and these engines caused the nose to pitch up, so they put this system in to pitch the nose down. So I think they're going to have to go back to engineering and really decide if this was the right fix for the change in the centre of gravity, the change of the operation, the tendency of the plane to pitch nose up. And I think that's what they are going to need to do if it's the same thing.

CO: All right we will leave it there. And of course a lot of answers we need to this. Ms. Schiavo I appreciate speaking with you thank you.

MS: Thank you.

JD: Mary Schiavo is the former Inspector General of the U.S. Department of Transportation, and a pilot. We reached her in Charleston, South Carolina.

[Music]

Venezuela Latest

Guest: Flaka

JD: No power. No hope. Just when it seems that things cannot get any worse in Venezuela -- they of course have. Power has been on and off throughout the country for days. There are also reports of looting, and hospitals are struggling to care for the sick. President Nicolas Maduro blames saboteurs acting with the support of the U.S. for attacking electrical infrastructure. But opposition supporters put the blame squarely on Mr. Maduro and his government's neglect of the country's already crumbling power grid. "Flaka" is a young anti-government activist. We have agreed not to use her real name because she fears for her safety. We reached Flaka in Caracas, Venezuela.

CO: Flaka how long were you without power in Caracas?

FLAKA: Where I am it was like almost 94 hours without light.

CO: And you have the lights? They are back on now?

FLAKA: Yeah -- no. The light is coming and it goes again.

CO: The neighbourhood -- how are people dealing with this? How do people go that long without power? What are the problems people have?

FLAKA: You know the freezers are damaged. We have no phones because when the lights are off, the network is going out. And in my building some neighbours were giving their food to the other neighbours to save it because they prefer to give it. The bakeries are giving for free -- the food -- some markets are giving the food for free because everything is -- I don't know the word exactly -- (due to) damaged the food you know.

CO: It's all going to be ruined. And so the last time we spoke with you a few weeks ago you were describing how there wasn't enough food for many people to eat. There are such big food shortages. What's it been like now since the power is going out? What effect is that going on people's ability to get food?

FLAKA: The people is like having a paranoiac moment you know. The people is going to the place (where) it does have lights, that have power, to buy food. And they are selling in dollars so the people that don't have dollars is organizing to make like a big stoles on the markets. I have a few histories of places that the people opens and stole all the food -- all the things -- because everything is going a little bit paranoiac. You know the people is waiting if the light comes -- is it going stay or is it going to go away again?

CO: I know you've been able to visit some hospitals -- visit your local hospital -- what is the scene there?

FLAKA: Yeah. The hospitals are very very bad because they don't have power plant you know. Central University and the hospital that is inside -- the clinic in that hospital like I think five or six [inaudible] that die because they didn't have a way to keep it alive because they don't have a generator.

CO: There's also reports about a lot of -- well you mentioned some people robbing grocery stores, but also organized groups of men on motorcycles who are just tyrannizing people, just having control.

FLAKA: Well let me tell you the history -- you know that I'm a photographer -- a photojournalist -- people go to protest because obviously we don't have lights and these army groups of the government comes and stoles and shot to the people -- to the buildings. I was yesterday on the central part of Chacao and these army troops comes -- and I was with my camera, I tried to save my camera. I think they saw when I was saving my camera and this red car stop in front of me and they put a gun in my face and they hit my face and they stole my camera.

CO: Good grief. And you can't do anything about it -- they're working with...

FLAKA: No I cannot. I cannot. I had a gun in my face. You know I have a big purple eye because they hit me. I am giving thanks to God because I'm alive. But now I don't have my way to work.

CO: The violence is just frightening -- what we're hearing. And to you, I'm so sorry that happened. But why is it that so many people are still supporting President Maduro? They're going into the streets -- why is that the case?

FLAKA: I really don't know. I think maybe it could be people that trust in that president -- that guy is not the president. He's not the president of Venezuela. We have an interim president -- the name is Juan Guaido, and that is the president of Venezuela.

CO: But Mr. Maduro is saying that these power cuts are because of the United States doing some kind of sabotage -- do people believe that?

FLAKA: No -- the people don't trust that. The people know that the power trouble is because they don't take care of the power system in the country. Also the people is waiting for the helicopters -- in a moment -- get the light, and someone says Maduro is not here. The people really wants to get United States inside here. The people really want intervention.

CO: But do I understand correctly -- Flaka you say people want the United States to have military intervention in Venezuela, and to take Maduro out of the country maybe in a helicopter. Is that what people are waiting to see happen?

FLAKA: Yeah -- people are waiting for that. I talk with the people -- the people tell to the parliament they say please make this happen, we need it, we cannot receive anymore.

CO: Flaka thank you for speaking with us tonight.

FLAKA: Well thank you Carol. Thank you.

JD: Flaka is a young anti-government activist. We reached her in Caracas, Venezuela. We have agreed not to use her real name because she fears for her safety. We have more on this story including photographs of the protests on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Hold that note

SOUNDCLIP

[Hold music]

JD: As far as hold music goes a little scratchy maybe but otherwise -- it's kind of a nice little tune. Let's listen again.

SOUNDCLIP

[Hold music]

JD: Yeah -- that's pretty soothing. Yeah I think so still. Maybe a little more haunting the a second time. But, you know, it's fine.

SOUNDCLIP

[Hold music]

JD: Okay -- I don't like it anymore. Stop it. Okay we all just heard less than a minute of the hold music that plays every single time you call any CVS pharmacy in the United States. And already I feel a bit like I have cobwebs in my hair and something just happened involving a poltergeist. So imagine what it's like for Dr. Steve Schlozman. Dr. Scholzman is a psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School. He calls CVS all the time -- he is put on hold all the time, so he hears that music all the time. In a letter on the website CommonHealth.org last year he wrote and I quote, "I hear it in my sleep. I hear it when I go running. Sometimes I wake in the middle of the night humming that melody. It haunts me day and night. It's not healthy. I know I'm a doctor." He handed that letter by politely yet desperately asking, "please change the music -- please." Well CommonHealth decided to follow up -- ten months later -- by calling CVS. Which says that finally, finally, it is going to change the hold music. The company wouldn't give Dr. Schlozman any credit though saying -- kind of sniffily in fact -- that plans were already underway to enhance the phone system. But he is excited and relieved in any case. He told CommonHealth quote, "That's the way it's supposed to work, and I'm glad for whatever small role I played in it." Well whatever CVS says, we congratulate Dr. Steve Schlozman who decided to hold the line on holding a line.

[Music]

Part 2: Former Royal Marine sets world records in rowing

YouTube Videos

Guest: Andy Parker

JD: Andy Parker's life changed on August 23rd, 2015. That was the morning his daughter, Alison Parker, was shot and killed on television. She was a reporter doing a live hit. You may remember our conversation with Mr. Parker just after Alison's murder about his quest to strengthen gun laws. Now his quest has expanded. In 2017 Mr. Parker discovered that YouTube was flooded with conspiracy videos about and surrounding Alison's death -- and surrounding the charitable foundation that he and his wife created in Alison's honour. Two years later he is still pushing YouTube and its parent company Google to take stronger measures to keep that content off its platforms. We reached Andy Parker in Collinsville, Virginia.

CO: Andy I know this is very disturbing to talk about, but what are some of these conspiracy videos saying?

ANDY PARKER: Well they're saying that I'm a crisis actor, that Alison is living in Israel after having undergone plastic surgery, that her murder was made up because the angles were not right. I mean anything you can think of they have thrown it out there.

CO: Do you have any idea who they is or are?

AP: I think they are probably people that live in their grandmother's basement. They're just trolls and cretins. And the cruelty is just unspeakable. And certainly the ones that take the video of Alison's murder and reconfigure it and edit and do you know all this stuff to it to further the conspiracy and you know just for their own amusement. But the comments that were thrown my way or directed my way in the immediate aftermath of Alison's murder on my YouTube page which was public were just beyond the pale. I mean comments like I really enjoyed watching your daughter die. I mean stuff like that it's just inhuman.

CO: It's mind boggling. I can't imagine who even in their mother's basement or for whatever reason anyone could say things like that to someone who just lost their daughter.

AP: You know your daughter's murdered -- and then people they see that and they understand that, but the other side of it is you get subjected to these trolls and these cretins that come out of the woodwork. And when you mention that to people they're just like horrified -- they can't believe it.

CO: The actual video that they're using it comes from where?

AP: The video that -- Adam Ward who was also killed when Alison was -- that was the video that he was taking when they were both killed. So that video belonged to WDBJ. And Lenny Pozner who lost his son at Sandy Hook has been helping me try to remove and take down this content. I have never seen the video. I don't want to see the video. I couldn't do it. And Google was telling us well in order for you to take this content down you have to flag the content and say why we should take it down. I mean no human being and no decent company -- corporate citizen -- would do something like that. So you know (Mr. Pozner) he has helped me take down a lot of the stuff -- he has taken it down himself.

CO: You and your friend Lenny Pozner --- you find it, you address Google with this discovery of these horribly offensive conspiracy, these tapes. They remove it. But it's like whack-a-mole -- another one comes up, right?

ANDY PARKER: That is exactly right. That's exactly right. It is like whack-a-mole. And that's why my take on it was you can't go after the whack-a-mole, you have to go after the enabler of the whack-a-mole and that's Google.

CO: And what does Google say when you go after them?

AP: They were helpful at first -- and then they weren't. It has been that way for two years Carol. They've been completely arbitrary and ad hoc in their decisions about taking down these videos. They'll say well you know this one we can take down, but that one needs to stay up. And then eventually they'll take it down. But there's no clear bright line that says these are prohibitive. These show moment of death. It's all over the place.

CO: Your sense is is that they also are monetizing it. They're actually making a profit from this video -- is that right?

AP: Carol that is my biggest heartburn with this whole thing. That's what Google does. Every time you click on a video -- I don't care what it is, whether it's these horrible videos of Alison, and the hoaxers -- any time you click on a video on YouTube and then it sends you -- as you know -- that panel on the right hand side that directs you to other places, they want to keep you clicking because what they do is -- even if they don't have an ad running -- they take your click and they sell your data. And so they make money every time you click. And that again is the bone of contention is that Google is monetizing and profiting from my daughter's murder. And I know that's unacceptable, and I'm not going to tolerate it.

CO: And what do you say when people argue that this is an exercise of free speech?

AP: Showing murder -- showing a snuff film -- what amounts to a snuff film, that's not free speech. That's just gratuitous violence. And you have to have some measure of human decency and that's really kind of what we're doing with why I've enlisted Georgetown University Civil Rights Law Clinic to act on my behalf in taking on Google.

CO: I understand that in the course of your efforts you have met with other parents, other survivors, and families of gun violence. You mentioned Lenny Pozner who lost his son, Noah, at Sandy Hook. And what are you hearing from those other parents who've gone through this? How are they dealing with it?

AP: Lenny has created this network -- Honr Network -- and you know it's a bunch of volunteers -- that's what they do, they go through and they flag these videos. But our contention is is that whether it's me or whether it's Sandy Hook or the victims of the Las Vegas shooting and certainly more recently the Parkland kids you know they're all subjected to it. The onus should not be on victims and families to monitor this stuff and police it. You know the onus should be on Google to do this. And if you've ever uploaded a video -- like you know all of this have -- and you wanted to add a soundtrack to it like I did with a lot of my kayaking videos, you put that music track on there and immediately it's flag. So Google has the technology to do this, to be proactive and police themselves, they just don't want to do it because it would cost them money. I mean these people -- as far as I'm concerned Google is a company of sociopaths.

CO: Andy we will leave it there. I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's just unimaginable. I think everyone listening to this would share that.

AP: Well I appreciate that. And I'm doing this not just for me but I'm doing it for you know the other -- as I mentioned -- the Parkland kids, the Sandy Hook kids -- this action, I'm taking for them as well.

CO: Andy we hear you. It's terrible. And I'm really grateful that you would tell us what happened. And thank you.

AP: Thank you Carol. I appreciate it. Thanks for the time.

JD: Andy Parker is the father of Alison Parker -- a reporter who was shot and killed on live television in 2015. We reached Mr. Parker in Collinsville, Virginia. A spokesperson for Google told the BBC quote, "Our hearts go out to the victim and her family. To protect the community, YouTube has clear policies that outline what content is not acceptable and we remove videos violating these policies when flagged to us."

[Music]

Mylan Hicks

JD: Now it was supposed to be a night out celebrating for Calgary Stampeders player Mylan Hicks. Instead, it cost a 23-year-old his life. Today, the man who shot the football player twice outside a Calgary bar in September of 2016 was found guilty of second degree murder. Nelson Lugela now faces life in prison. After the verdict was handed down, Mr. Hicks's mother, Renee Hill, spoke with CBC reporter Meghan Grant about what it meant to her.

SOUNDCLIP

RENEE HILL: I knew it was happening. I knew I was going to get the verdict that was laid down. I knew that. I trust God. I got up at 6 o'clock this morning. I prayed about it. I even got my husband involved today which is rare. And I told them before we left the hotel -- come on and we got together, we held hands, and I told the lord a couple of things. I said, Jesus...Mylan belongs to you. And I said take care of Mylan's business today. And he did.

MEGHAN GRANT: You had some words for Nelson Lugela as he was escorted from the court room. What were you saying to him?

RENEE HILL: I ask him why? Why Lugela -- why? I still would like to know why. Even though I already know why -- there was no reason.

MEGHAN GRANT: How is this kind of closure for you or is it closure for you?

RENEE HILL: There's no closure. And I want everybody to know -- I want the world to know -- when you lose your child, don't use the term closure. There is never any closure. Expect closure is like closing them out -- you'll never close them out, I'll never close him out. So there's no closure. What it does is set aside some of the heart wrenching, heartbreaking, redundant statements, and witness things that I had to hear in there that caused me to storm out. Every time I heard. Every time I heard I hit him twice and it doesn't look good for him. Every time I heard the prosecutor or the defense raise the issue that he aimed, he shot -- I took that blow. Those were personal hits to me. I felt them in my gut. Every time they said that I wailed because I felt them in my gut.

JD: That was Renee Hill, speaking with CBC Calgary. Today, Nelson Lugela was found guilty of murdering her son -- Calgary Stampeder Mylan Hicks -- outside a Calgary bar in 2016.

[Music]

Rowing Marine

Guest: Lee Spencer

JD: Breaking a world record is awesome. Smashing one is next level. And former Royal Marine Lee Spencer did that second thing this morning. Which is why it sounded like this when he finished his solo row across the Atlantic Ocean.

SOUNDCLIP

[People chanting: Hip hip hurray]

JD: Mr. Spencer completed his journey from Portugal to French Guiana in just 60 days. He broke the record by 36 days -- and that is the able bodied record by the way. Mr. Spencer lost his right leg in a road accident four years ago. We reached Lee Spencer in Cayenne, French Guiana.

CO: Lee -- first of our big congratulations.

LEE SPENCER: Oh thank you so much Carol.

CO: I was watching the last rows you made -- it was dark and you looked very strong. How are you feeling?

LS: Exhausted. The overwhelming feeling I've had is just relief. The thing about the ocean is -- it is so big it doesn't matter how prepared and well trained and how much equipment you've got, one wave can wreak havoc. And you are only one wave away from disaster. So to get through and to complete it was a massive relief.

CO: What was the most difficult thing over these 60 days of crossing the Atlantic and rowing on your own?

LS: Personally I found being alone difficult to cope with. I was a Royal Marine for 24 and a half years -- and every part of your daily life is built around teamwork and functioning as part of a member of a team. And I found not the solitude -- as in just being on your own, I didn't for that an issue at all -- it was when things were tricky and was a bit worrying and dare I say a bit scary. Being alone and scared -- it was particularly challenging.

CO: What did you do to cope? I mean you're out there in the big ocean, big sky -- did you sing? Did you talk to yourself?

LS: [Chuckles] I have caught me self-singing a couple of times. And funnily I felt a bit self-conscious. And I looked around -- and I thought there's probably no one for hundreds of miles around me -- I can do what I want. I listened to a lot of podcasts to try to educate me self. Somethings I'm still clueless about.

CO: You also made a few friends out there of the aquatic sort.

LS: Yeah aquatic -- I saw quite a few turtles, dolphins, sharks. I saw four sperm whales -- two of them, like a mother and a calf were literally right next to the boat which was amazing. And I had a couple of hitchhikers -- a couple of birds would come and just sat on the end of boat -- and I could go right up to one and had a little conversation with it -- it didn't say much back. But yeah it was quite amazing.

CO: What was your darkest moment?

LS: Fourth day in all my navigation systems failed which meant I had the problem of getting into the Canary with very very very basic navigation. The clock did not stop -- so in the end it took five days. And I thought at that point I was setting off from the Canaries without hope of breaking the record -- which was quite hard.

CO: You didn't just break the record -- you shattered it. I mean you came in 36 days short of the last record for crossing. You were 60 days. Did you think that that was possible? Did you have an idea for how long you thought you should take?

LS: I know I could break it. I was confident I could break it. But to take 36 days off it -- it is beyond me wildest dreams. The thing that kept me going was just people supporting. My wife was just keeping me updated. And the supported I was getting from all around the world and I just want to say a massive thank you to everyone who supported me and got in touch it -- it mattered and it really really helped me in a very tangible way so thank you very much everyone.

CO: The very very key part of this -- the whole story and what you were setting out to achieve is that you did it after having lost a leg. And the man who had set the record had both his legs. You were doing it with just one.

LS: Yeah. I got about two Guinness World Records this morning: first physically disabled person to row from mainland Europe to South America solo. But to get the able-bodied record which I was set out to do was really the mission and the driving force behind the whole row. When I lost my leg I was a serving Royal Marine. And I would have define myself absolutely in terms of physicality what I could achieve -- physically, I was fairly confident. I got a chance to row as part of a team of four years ago -- I rowed from the Canaries to Antigua. And it was only whilst rowing I realized how ridiculous that was because I was still the same person -- essentially nothing had changed -- unless there is a little bit less of me. And it got me thinking about how we in society think about disabled people as well as how I defined myself. I defined myself by disability. And I thought if myself as a disabled person could break an able-bodied record in something as physically demanding as rowing in the ocean then that's a massive statement that no one should be defined by disability. And that's really been the driving force behind the whole project.

CO: I know you said that you had kept a little bottle of whiskey on board -- you had it on board for those times when it would be nice to have a wee dram. But you didn't have any at all. Have you had a chance to have that drink yet?

LS: Oh yeah [chuckles] yeah.

CO: And was it good?

LS: Yeah it was. I'm looking forward to just going down the bar -- my son is here, me wife, my friend who sort of helped out from the word 'go' in putting it together. So we are just going to go to the bar and have a few beers.

CO: We are going to leave you to do that because that is well-deserved. And have that celebration and cheers.

LS: Thank you so much. Thank you Carol.

CO: All right enjoy your evening.

JD: Lee Spencer became the world record holder for fastest solo row across the Atlantic Ocean today. We reached him at his final destination in Cayenne, French Ghana.

[Music]

Whale encounter

JD: This is how long two seconds take to pass when you're listening to the radio.

SOUNDCLIP

[Beep sound]

JD: And this, I'm assuming, is how long two seconds take to pass when you're inside a whale's mouth.

SOUNDCLIP

[Continuous beep]

JD: Now that is just an educated guess. Because the way Rainer Schimpf tells the story -- a lot of thoughts swam through his mind between the time the 15-metre whale scooped him up in its giant mouth -- and the time it spat him out. Mr. Schimpf is a tour operator in South Africa. And he was out filming the "sardine run" in the waters off Port Elizabeth -- that's when billions of sardines show up off the coast to spawn, and all kinds of marine creatures show up on mass to eat sardines. Among those marine creatures are Bryde's whales. They are big, hungry whales with big hungry mouths. Not the Rainer Schimpf was thinking about whales -- while he was snorkeling. At least, not at first. He told the story to Sky News.

SOUNDCLIP

RAINER SCHIMPF: Well we were in the water maybe for two or three minutes. There was not much time. And I was busy concentrating on the sharks because obviously you want to know whether the shark is in front of you, behind you, left or right. So we were very focused on the sharks and their behaviour. And then suddenly it got dark. The whole event when the whale grabbed me -- took about two seconds. So once I felt something has grabbed me on the hip, I knew instantly it was a whale. And my next thought was that firstly he can't swallow me because I'm too big so that was kind of an instant relief. Also I realized that the pressure didn't increase. It actually stopped at a certain point. So my next thought was that the whale may take me down into the ocean and release me further down so I instantly held my breath. Obviously he realized I was not what he wanted to eat so he spat me out again. I mean once you are grabbed by something which is 15 tons heavy and very fast in the water you realize you're actually only that small in the middle of the ocean.

JD: South African tour operator Rainer Schimpf calmly describing the perspective that comes from helplessly winding up in the mouth of a whale for two seconds. He was speaking with Sky News.

[Music]

Thomas Carrique

JD: Ontario has a new police commissioner tonight. But not the one the province's Progressive Conservative premier had hoped for. Doug Ford of course had picked his buddy and frequent dinner companion -- Toronto Superintendent Ron Taverner. Superintendent Taverner had also bought a home from one of Mr. Ford's close associates, and attended a fundraiser at the Ford family cottage. And then there was the fact that the job requirements had to be rewritten to allow Mr. Taverner to be considered at all for the role. All that led to months of questions about the future impartiality of the force. Until last week -- Ron Taverner withdrew his name from consideration. Wasting no time though, today the government named Thomas Carrique, the former deputy chief for the York Regional Police as Ontario's top cop. Mr. Carrique was asked how friendly he is with the premier.

SOUNDCLIP

THOMAS CARRIQUE: I have no relationship whatsoever with the premier or the Ford family.

REPORTER: Can you tell us how your appointment came about?

THOMAS CARRIQUE: I was approached by the deputy minister of community safety -- Mario Di Tommaso -- and we had very lengthy, deep, and detailed discussions about the expectations of the commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police. My vision for policing and how I may be able to assist the OPP with permanent fixed leadership moving forward -- something that is very important to the safety and security of this province. [Reporter asking about Ron Taverner] That's not an answer that I should be addressing. I have no connection to any previous processes. I welcome any questions about my credentials, but any previous processes would not be appropriate for me to address.

REPORTER: I just want to ask you -- did you apply to job...

THOMAS CARRIQUE: I did not apply for the job initially -- no. I never saw myself -- my future in policing being anywhere but here at York Regional Police.

REPORTER: When were you approached...

THOMAS CARRIQUE: I was approached last week.

REPORTER: What types of barriers do you think there should be between the premier's office and...

THOMAS CARRIQUE: Well there's not a direct connection between the premier of the province and the commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police. As the commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police I will be accountable to the deputy minister of community safety -- that is who I am accountable to, that is who is able to provide me with direction, and that is where the relationship lies between the Ontario Provincial Police and the provincial government.

JD: Thomas Carrique is the incoming commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police. He was speaking in Aurora, Ontario earlier today.

[Music]

Part 3: Scottish lawmaker used first aid to save daughter's life after she choked on a coin

New Killer Whale

Guest: Robert Pitman

JD: For years and years and years, there have been rumors of an elusive killer whale that does not look quite like the others. And now scientists say that they have found a pod of these whales known as "Type D" -- off the coast of Chile. They are still waiting on DNA tests, but they believe it could be an entirely new species. Robert Pitman is a marine ecologist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration -- otherwise known as NOAA. He has spent the last 14 years searching for these type whales. We reached Robert Pitman in La Jolla, California.

CO: Mr. Pitman what was that moment like when you were out there and surrounded by these whales?

ROBERT PITMAN: Well I had been looking for these whales for 14 years or so. They were difficult to find. And for me personally, it was like finding a dinosaur.

CO: A living dinosaur -- gorgeous animals that are all surrounding your boat.

RP: Yes. You know as it turns out these killer whales take fish off the lines of fishermen down there so they're used to being around boats. We didn't know initially if we were going to be able to approach them, if they're going to run away from us. And when we got down there -- they just came right over the boat and started swimming around. And I think they were a little disappointed but we certainly weren't.

CO: But now you have been looking so long for these particular whales to the point where you began to wonder I guess whether they even existed.

RP: I knew they existed -- but I also knew that from the sighting records that we had accumulated that they occurred in the latitudes the 40s and the 50s. They're down there in the worst weather in the world, and hard to get to. If you were going to hide a large animal on this planet that would be the place to do it. And it's not too surprising that we don't know hardly anything at all about this animal.

CO: And this is a very sort of archaic name for this killer whale "Type D." So what is different about Type D?

RP: Well we first knew about this animal back in 1955. There was a stranding in New Zealand -- very distinctive looking killer whale, it looks smaller than regular killer whales, has a very round bulbous head, these narrow pointy dorsal fins. But most interestingly they have a very tiny little eyepatch. And there were photos of most the animals in this group and they all had that and nobody had ever seen anything like it before or for over half a century afterwards. So those of us who work on killer whales thought that well maybe it was a genetic aberration that died out with that group or maybe this was something that went extinct. And then in 2005 I was at a killer whale meeting and a French scientist had been working on killer whales at Crozet Island in the south Indian Ocean showed me some pictures and said, what do you think of these? And I looked down and it's like those are the New Zealand whales -- they're alive. And not only are they alive, but they were a third of the way around the world so they're perhaps fairly widespread. So that was an 'aha' moment for me, and got me looking for those killer whales for the next 14 years.

CO: And how did you finally identify where they might be -- the ones that you actually encountered?

RP: Well a colleague of mine in fact worked for the same group -- they work on these depredation issues where killer whales take fish off fisherman's lines, and some of them take pictures. And by then he knew what a Type D killer whale was. And so he sent the photos to me and said, hey you know we've got this issue down off Chile too. And it's south of Cape Horn by a hundred or so miles, but that is relatively accessible compared to everything else we had seen before.

CO: And so you were out on a motor sail boat, right, this is a motorized boat that also has sails. How long had you been out before you had this encounter?

RP: When we got the boat charter we thought that we would probably need three weeks to have at least one or two good days of good weather to look for these animals. We had a spot that we wanted to go to 50 or 100 square miles. The fishermen said they're fairly reliably seen there but the weather is terrible most of the time. So we had one good day of weather and we didn't find any killer whales. And then we ended up hiding out for the next couple of weeks. In fact we spent eight days at anchor while the wind blew 40-50 knots and were beginning to wonder if we're going to be able to get back out again. And then the weather dropped down for us one morning to 25 or so knots and we were going to have a few hours in the morning. So we head out and almost immediately we had 25 Type D killer whales swimming around the boat.

CO: Almost a once in a lifetime experience for you then.

RP: I hope it's not once in a lifetime.

CO: [Chuckles] That is why I said almost.

RP: Yeah. Now that we have an idea where we might be able to locate them -- you know we've got some possibility of doing some other things with them so we're going to be looking into that.

CO: And of course the question you want answers to is whether or not they are a different species of whale, right?

RP: Yes. And I think there's some pretty good evidence of that when they're taking fish off the fishing lines on fishing boats -- quite often there's a different kind of killer whale there, the regular killer whale. And in fact the fishermen tell us that when they're both there -- the regular killer whales, which are larger, keep the other ones at bay. So they don't intermingle socially. And we don't see anything that looks like a hybrid. But we've got a little ways to go yet to work on that.

CO: Well what evidence does you gather during this encounter that would help you find out if it's a different species or something else?

RP: Well one of the most important ways of telling species apart these days is through the use of genetics. And we have a crossbow with us out on the boat and we bounce these darts off of them and they take a little snippet of skin about the size of a pencil eraser, and the darts flowed on the water, and we go over and pick them up. And we can use those samples to compare the genetics of Type F killer whale with other killer whales around the world.

CO: I'm sure there's much more you want to know about these wonderful creatures in your encounter but we'll leave it there. Mr. Pitman thank you.

RP: Thank you Carol.

JD: Robert Pitman is a marine ecologist with NOAA. We reached him in La Jolla, California.

[Music]

Scorpion on a plane

JD: For Quin Maltais, a student from Yukon, a recent four-hour flight from Toronto to Calgary passed as they usually do rather uneventfully. Until the final hour -- when Ms. Maltais found a strange sensation around her back, and it began to puzzle her. And then just before the wheels touched down she felt a sting. Here is Ms. Maltais speaking to CBC's Sandi Coleman on the morning radio program in Yukon, "A New Day."

SOUNDCLIP

QUIN MALTAIS: For the majority of the flight it was fine. And like the last hour maybe I was noticing kind of like a flutter near my lower back and I just kind of ignored it. I just figured maybe it was the air conditioning or something from behind me. And then the lights had turned on on the plane like maybe half hour before we landed. And as soon as the lights turned off again closer to when we were literally about to land, I felt a piercing pain in my lower back. I was like oh my god -- like something bit me. And so I grabbed the bit of sweater where the pain was because I was thinking maybe the spider -- I thought it was a spider maybe -- so I tried to like trap it in my sweater. But like this was right when the plane was landing -- so I was already kind of freaking out because we were like hitting the ground and I couldn't take my seatbelt off to see what was going on. And then when we were finally just driving around the tarmac and the lights turned on -- I looked into the ball of the bundled sweater that I had but nothing was there. And I looked behind me on the seat, and then I saw movement... and there was a scorpion that was kind of in the like towards the back of the chair. And yeah. So I like ripped off my seatbelt -- it jumps on top of my arm rest and was just kind of staring at it for a full minute -- just processing. The scorpion wasn't that big though -- it was like four inches maybe. But oh my god it really freaked me out. I guess all the passengers were taken off the plane anyway because we had landed. And then paramedics came onto the airplane and then escorted me off and were kind of checking me out in the gates of the airport instead of on the plane. When we walked past the seats -- the seats were totally taken apart. It was just like metal frames but they still weren't able to get the scorpion when I had left. So I think they've got it now. I hope.

JD: That was Air Transat passenger, Quin Maltais, speaking to the CBC's Sandi Coleman this morning.

[Music]

Daughter Rescue

Guest: Alex Cole-Hamilton

JD: Alex Cole-Hamilton was on his way out for the evening when he heard just a terrible sound: the sound of his 4-year-old daughter, Darcy, choking on a coin. So the Scottish politician jumped into action -- and drew on first aid training he had received decades earlier. We reached Alex Cole-Hamilton in Edinburgh.

CO: Alex how is your daughter doing?

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: Oh she's so much better. We've got her back and she's you know bothering her brothers and playing with unicorns like any 4-year-old girl. We just feel so blessed today to have her back and save in ours arms.

CO: Reading about this is one of those nightmare moments for parents: when you see your child can't breathe, they're turning blue, they're choking on something. What was that moment for you on Saturday night?

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: Well it all happened very fast. So we were going to be going out. I was handing over to a sitter -- my wife was already the event we were going to. And just as I was about to leave I heard strangled cry -- she managed to get out the word, 'swallowed a penny.' And then -- as you say -- she started to turn blue. And at that point it wasn't so much fear or terror, it is just complete focus and commitment to getting her to breathe again. And I remember at first aid training that I'd had 25 years ago just leaped into my head about inverting her over my knee and giving her five strong firm open handed claps on the back until she was sick and she vomited. And shifted the penny enough that she was able to open her windpipe again. And that was when I phoned the ambulance.

CO: Where did that knowledge of what to do come from?

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: I learned to scuba dive when I was in my late teens -- and so we did a comprehensive first aid course as part of the training. And then we also did a little bit of that when my wife and I were having our first child -- we went to classes and they talked about it, but it was definitely the diving training I remember most.

CO: And do you know what you actually did? What actually was accomplished by turning upside down and making her vomit?

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: I could hear when she was sick -- even though I could not see the penny -- she gasped when she finished being sick and I say well that's a great sign because clearly she's moving air again.

CO: Wow. That moment must have been something when you heard that intake of air.

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: Yeah I didn't feel we were out of the woods though because clearly I could see that she was still really struggling. She was retching and gagging. But I could see she was breathing. I was asking, can you breathe? Can you breathe? And she started to nod. So that was the point. I had not phoned the ambulance and perhaps in hindsight I should have had our babysitter phone immediately. But I was so focused on just getting Darcy to breathe again. It was all a matter in possibly a minute maybe two. And then I rang the ambulance and they got us to the hospital in about 10 minutes.

CO: When she was vomiting though -- did the coin come up?

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: No. No not at all. What they said to me in the ambulance is you did the right thing. And in fact they said if you hadn't done that -- it would have been a very different outcome. Sorry I am just a bit emotional about that. But yeah they said you shifted it enough so you have taken the pressure off her air way. And they took her to the hospital. They had to take it out in surgery under general anaesthetic. They didn't cut her or anything -- they went in with forceps. But obviously that would be incredibly distressing for her if she was awake.

CO: I don't know 'what ifs' scenarios must be going through your mind. But what if you had left earlier?

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: That's right. And you know I could get mad thinking about you know the things that could have happened. And I'm just trying to focus on the fact that we've got our beautiful happy daughter back where she belongs in our house and she's safe. But you're right. And I think that's what I have really struggle with -- the anxiety of what if. And the other thing that's been really playing on our mind is -- so many friends who've been really kind and giving us good wishes and visiting and the rest -- so many of them had said I wouldn't know what to do. And so that's why you know because of my job I've got a bit of a tension right in this right now and I'm going to use that to try and build awareness. You know it is so easy to get that training. It's like 20 minutes of your life to learn a skill -- a very easy skill actually -- and it could save somebody's life. So that's what I'm focused on now.

CO: And this is something that -- you say that, I'm sure lots of people would not know but not only this but so many other things that basic first aid can teach you and including teaching babysitters, right?

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: Exactly -- that's exactly right. And also kids -- you know in Scotland we're having a bit of a debate about whether we should include first aid in the curriculum and I am going to be an evangelist for that. You can retain this stuff and this was brought home to me on Saturday night. Somebody may teach you how to do something that you may not need for the rest of your life or you may need it in 30 years time. But if it's there the back of your brain -- and it's amazing how swiftly you can remember it.

CO: We always think though if we do get the training, I'll forget it or I won't know it when the moment comes. But you're saying you had this 25 years ago and just some kind of muscle memory kicked in for you.

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: That's exactly right. I think people also think you know you get sent on a first aid course with work -- you're almost anticipating it's part of a medical degree. It's actually really basic stuff. It's as simple as A-B-C. You know your first resuscitation lesson is A-B-C: A is for airway, is the airway blocked. And that's what I did with Darcy. Then if they're not breathing that is B: you know you move to breathing in. And then C: is for circulation. And so it's really simple stuff but it's amazing how good they are at teaching it in a way that allows you to recall it when you need it.

CO: All right. Great message. Great idea. Sign up for those courses. Alex I'm really glad your daughter is okay. And I appreciate speaking with you.

ALEX COLE-HAMILTON: Thank you. Lovely speaking to you too.

JD: Alex Cole-Hamilton is a member of Scottish Parliament representing Edinburgh Western. On Saturday he used first aid training to help his 4-year-old daughter after she swallowed a coin. We reached Mr. Cole-Hamilton in Edinburgh. And for more on the story go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Wrestle me

JD: It was not the way Jaslynn Gallegos wanted to win. Ms. Gallegos is a wrestler at Skyview High School in Thornton, Colorado. And earlier this month she competed at the state championships. One of her competitors however refused to join her on the mat. 18-year-old Brendan Johnston was forced out of the tournament after forfeiting two matches against opponents of the opposite sex. He explained quote, "I'm not really comfortable with a couple of things with the wrestling a girl. The physical contact. There's a lot of it in wrestling. I guess the physical aggression too." On Saturday, NPR's Scott Simon asked Ms. Gallego about what she made of that decision.

SOUNDCLIP

JASLYNN GALLEGOS: Well one of my things is I just want to be a wrestler not necessarily defined as a girl wrestler so it kind of hurt me a little bit because you know I just want to be this wrestler and my gender is holding me back.

SCOTT SIMON: Brendan Johnston told reporters quote, "I don't want to treat a young lady like that on the mat or off the mat. And not to disrespect the heart or the effort that she's put in. That's not what I want to do." Do you accept that?

JASLYNN GALLEGOS: Yeah I mean everybody has their own beliefs but at the same time for me I believe that I'm just a wrestler and he believes that you're not just a wrestler you know you're a female wrestler.

SCOTT SIMON: Can you see in this day and age why a young man just may not want to put himself in the position of applying force on a woman even if it's in a public athletic competition?

JASLYNN GALLEGOS: You know I feel like that whole situation is something that the wrestling community has gone past especially like since I've wrestled hundreds of guys like that's not an issue here. You know it's kind of unheard of in the wrestling community for a girl to say something happened during a match. It's wrestling and I think we all understand that it's a very physical sport. You're literally fighting someone to put them to their back. You are not thinking about anything else at the time because you're trying to win a match. For me when I wrestle it's literally all muscle memory because I practice my shots and my standup and I sitouts and pinning combination. So often I don't even have to think when I wrestle.

SCOTT SIMON: Anything you'd like to say to boys who might be reluctant to wrestle you?.

JASLYNN GALLEGOS: Just wrestle me -- you know you might get pinned, you might win by one or two points, you might even pin me but I'm definitely worth giving a match to.

JD: Jaslynn Gallegos is a senior at Skyview High School in Thornton, Colorado. After the victory by forfeit of Brendan Johnston she went on to take fifth in the state championships.

[Music]

No Daylight Saving Time

Guest: Linda Larson

JD: It is like clockwork: the Monday after much of Canada springs forward the clocks. Much of Canada unites in a yawn. And also like clockwork, a British Columbia MLA is hoping to end the madness. For the third time in three years, Linda Larson has introduced a bill in the B.C. legislature to stop changing the clocks. Linda Larson is the MLA for Boundary-Similkameen in British Columbia. We reached her in Oliver.

CO: Ms. Larson how was Monday morning for you after we lost that hour?

LINDA LARSON: Not great. A lot of coffee, and it'll take me about three days before I don't feel the effects of it.

CO: And what do you think the province of British Columbia should do about that?

LL: Well I really do believe that we should go to Daylight Savings Time which we're on right now -- which we switch to this weekend -- and stay there. Quit switching back and forth.

CO: What kind of response are you getting?

LL: Well I'm getting overwhelming response. I have no idea -- personally -- what the premier and the NDP government that's in power is going to do with this. I am a B.C. Liberal and I'm a member of the opposition.

CO: Now the premier said to somebody that he gets more people asking him about this than about anything else. What do you think of that?

LL: Well I think it's one of the few things that happens that affects all of us. Regardless of age -- it just doesn't matter -- it has a negative effect. And so it's a very non-partisan item. And I think that people are just finally fed up with it. We created daylight savings time as you know so that we didn't use coal after the First World War because there was a shortage. But daylight savings time itself with the longer hours of light in the evening, it seems to be the favourite thing to do. Nobody wants to switch back to standard time.

CO: So you're proposing that we should stay permanently on daylight saving time?

LL: That's correct. And right now to the south of British Columbia -- Washington state, Oregon, and California, are all putting legislation through their particular governments to do the same thing.

CO: Are you ahead of a curve here -- is this something that's going through the United States as well?

LL: Well I was ahead of the curve when I started it two years ago but nobody picked it up. So this is the third attempt -- the third bill I've put on the floor and this is the first year though that there's been a lot of activity to the south of us.

CO: I was just seeing that Donald Trump tweeted he said making daylight saving time permanent is okay with me. So you've got some interesting company on this issue don't you?

LL: Yes. Strange but true. But the United States need Washington D.C. to pass that. So that's a good thing I suppose that the president is in favour of that.

CO: There are already some parts of Canada that don't switch, right. Most of Saskatchewan is one of those places. And what effect does that have when we have parts of the country that don't do it? Say if B.C. was to go this way wouldn't you be out of sync with the rest of us -- we couldn't remember what time was in British Columbia.

LL: No I don't think so because don't forget that for six months of every year we are on daylight savings time. And certainly the rest of the country does the adjustment quite well. It just doesn't seem to be an issue. I think it would have been more so 20, 30, 40 years ago but now in the digital world that we're in -- it's the flick of a switch. My phone just automatically does this. All of the airlines. Everybody that moves across the country just naturally flows into these time changes.

CO: Yes but when people change in other different times -- because different countries have different times that they switch if they switch at all and then everyone has to try and figure out is this the time that they have switched the clocks or is it going to be next week or two weeks from now -- and we don't know what time it is. Half the time we don't know what time it is.

LL: That is true. And there is some confusion but even the European Parliament is debating this issue right now.

CO: Maybe you should make this an international campaign.

LL: I'm having trouble enough getting it done in British Columbia without venturing any further. I am keeping my fingers crossed and have a very large campaign of people who are phoning the premier -- he's probably not going to want to talk to me ever again -- on this particular issue. So one step at a time -- one time zone at a time.

CO: What are you going to say to those who say that this would be dangerous for children because they go to school in the dark?

LL: Well right now they go to school in the dark anyway. For about six weeks it's pretty dark. So this won't change it that much. I mean I go to work in the dark and come home in the dark every single day for months on end. There is a safety concern without a doubt. And I understand that for parents who have children that are standing on the side of the road waiting for a bus or whatever. But overall the health of those children and their parents and everyone else who has to go through this time switch, I think it's worth it.

CO: All right so you want to get out of the dark one way or the other.

LL: Pretty much.

CO: It's good to talk to you. Thank you.

LL: You're welcome. Thank you so much.

JD: Linda Larson is the MLA from Boundary-Similkameen in British Columbia. She has been trying for years to get her province to stop changing its clocks and stick to daylight saving time. We reached Ms. Larson in Oliver.

[Music]

JD: On the subject of time -- it's time for us to skedaddle because we are out of it. It is the end of As It Happens for Monday March, 11th.

CO: At least it's light out right now.

JD: It is so nice.

CO: Oh you're on that side -- is that the camp you are in? The keep the DST?

JD: Well it's just so nice to leave work and be able to see.

CO: All right. Well time and only time tell if you are going to get your wish there. The news is next. As It Happens will be back on time tomorrow. I'm Carol Off. Have a good evening.

JD: And I'm Jeff Douglas. Good night.

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March 11, 2019 Episode Transcript

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