Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2019

The AIH Transcript for February 14, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

NANA ABA DUNCAN: Good evening, I'm Nana aba Duncan, sitting in for Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

NaD: Tonight:

CO: Home delivery. A British woman who went to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter is 9 months pregnant, and pleading to return to the UK for the sake of her child — but her passport doesn't mean she'll get a pass.

NaD: What went down was not comeuppance. While Jody Wilson-Raybould maintains her silence, her Liberal colleague Ralph Goodale maintains she was not punished for refusing to let SNC Lavalin off the hook.

CO: A take-charges person. The CEO of an independent news outlet in the Philippines is arrested again, this time for "cyber-libel" — but Maria Ressa is speaking out while she's out on bail.

NaD: Staying grounded. Deadly demonstrations challenge the Haitian president's hold on power — and a Canadian doctor who can't fly home is doing more aid work than she'd planned.

CO: The nun of their business. In the course of their research, British archivists turn up the tale of a 14th-century nun who took an extremely un-convent-tional approach to leaving the convent.

NaD: And...impressive impressions of Impressionists. A retired man in BC fills his home with his own breathtaking reproductions of famous masterpieces — and he's got fine art down to a fine art.

NaD: "As It Happens", the Thursday edition. Radio that guesses he likes hard copies of extremely hard copies.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: ISIS brides, Maria Ressa, Coquitlam painter

ISIS brides

Guest: Dal Babu

NaD: "Bring me home." That's a direct plea from Shamima Begum, to the UK government. Ms. Begum was 15 years old when she and two friends fled the East London neighbourhood of Bethnal Green, and flew to Syria to become the brides of ISIS fighters. Now, Ms. Begum is 19 years old, and 9 months pregnant. She's living in a Syrian refugee camp. And she told a London Times reporter that she doesn't regret doing what she did — but she wants to return to the UK for the sake of her child. On the BBC today, Britain's security minister Ben Wallace says his government isn't rushing to bring Ms. Begum home.

SOUNDCLIP

BEN WALLACE: I'm not putting at risk British people's lives to go and look for terrorists or former terrorists in a failed state. There's consular services elsewhere in the region, and the strong message this government has given for many years is that you know actions have consequences.

NaD: UK's Security Minister Ben Wallace, speaking earlier to BBC's "Today Programme.” Dal Babu is a former Chief Superintendent for the London Metropolitan Police. We reached him in London.

CO: Mr. Babu, there is a teenaged girl who wants to come home. What responsibility does the UK government have to help her do that?

DAL BABU: Well, she’s a British citizen. She's in a in a camp for the moment, where British journalists have gone along. So I think the minister is actually incorrect when he talks about it not being a safe area. It's a camp where there are lots of ex-jihadis, ex-ISIS relatives. So we have to adhere to international law. We have to adhere to our own natural law. And we also have to look at the fact that when she was 15, there were significant shortcomings in how we safeguarded and protected this particular young woman.

CO: And I want to get to this because this is your role in this. You tried to help this family, and what was your previous connection with this young woman and her family?

DB: Well, I used to be the deputy borough commander in the area — in Tower Hamlets. When I'd retired from the police — I completed 30 years in the police. When I retired from the police, the family contacted me along with their solicitor and says we have grave concerns about the police's understanding of what's happening. We are also very concerned about what information they shared with us and didn't share with us. And they wanted me to be the intermediary between the police and the family. I don't know what situation you have in Canada, but there have been grave concerns in this country around the Internet. It's been described as the wild west here, where individuals who want to do bad things have been influencing vulnerable young people. I think this four years ago was where Islamic State were using influences to radicalize young people in this country.

CO: Absolutely same situation here in Canada. But at the same time, these girls went off — in this case, Shamima Begum — she married a Dutchman, or as she was arranged to marry a Dutchman who had joined ISIS. How much did she encounter of what ISIS was doing in Syria?

DB: Well, I think if you hear the interview, you can see that this is a very damaged young woman. But the reality is there is a 15-year-old girl from the East End of London, turns up. She says she wants to marry a an English-speaking jihadist. She ends up being told that she's going to get married to a Dutchman. So she ends up with a Dutchman who is almost double her age. People call these young women jihadi brides, actually they're sex slaves. It's slave labour. It's appalling how these young people were radicalized on the Internet, and then went along to a war zone area. You know if you if you had a degree of logic and good sense you would never do that. And these young people were doing that.

CO: What do you make of the tone of her in that clip from the London Times when they tracked her down — what she had to say about her or her encounters with ISIS?

DB: Well, I mean some of it was quite surprising. But then again she's speaking from the heart, but she also has to be conscious that she's there in a camp full of ex-ISIS individuals.

CO: But she said in the clip that she saw severed heads; that didn't faze her.

DB: And I think that's you know that's what I mean about her being brutalized. She would have seen bombings; she would have been seen horrific things. You know I was a police officer for 30 years. I still got very concerned when I saw dead bodies when I had to lift up dead bodies. It's not something that you feel that you can ever take for granted. And, sadly, I lost count of the number of dead bodies I saw in my 30 years. And there was never a time where I wasn't affected. So I find it difficult when when somebody says I'm not fazed. This is an individual who's got some dramatic difficulties at the moment. This is a 15-year-old girl, radicalized on the Internet. The authorities knew that this was happening, the police knew very in terms of the prevent program, the school knew about it, the local authority knew about it. The decision was made not to contact the parents. And that was a fundamentally flawed decision. The police in their wisdom decided that they would write to the parents of these three girls. So they wrote a letter saying that they were concerned about these girls being radicalized. They gave the letter to these girls to take home. And you know what? Surprise, surprise, they didn't give it to their parents. It was in their school bag when the families saw that the girls had gone missing. So we need to understand what our responsibilities were, how we as a country dealt with it. You know if she comes back, she will have to go through the rule of law. That will mean an investigation. It may mean an arrest. And in terms of her child, the child may be taken into care. These are all very complex issues, which I should imagine she's not even thought of.

CO: Much has been made of the fact that she seems to be unrepentant when she was interviewed by the London Times. And you heard Ben Wallace, the U.K. security minister, making it clear that he's not going to risk lives to go and help her in any way. But you're saying that they've already missed opportunities to fulfill their responsibility to her. Before she even left, they had responsibility to her.

DB: I think there's a catastrophic failure by the police and the school to deal with the safeguarding issues when they were presented. I think we've failed these young people, and they've ended up in Syria. And when you're a 15-year-old child, you make mistakes — you make horrendous mistakes. And I think we need to recognize that. But clearly, she will have to go through legal and judicial process. But we need to understand the bigger picture around what we did as a country or didn't do, and the fact we are where we are sort of four years on.

CO: Mr. Babu, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

DB: Thank you.

NaD: Dal Babu is a former Metropolitan Police Chief Superintendent. We reached him in London, UK.

[Music: Indie rock]

Maria Ressa

Guest: Maria Ressa

NaD: Maria Ressa can add "cyber libel" to the list of charges now levelled against her in the Philippines. Ms. Ressa is the CEO of Rappler — one of the few independent news outlets in the Philippines. She's been lauded for her team's reporting — which often includes critical coverage of President Rodrigo Duterte and his government. Time Magazine named her a Person of the Year in 2018. The last time we spoke with her, last November, she'd been charged with tax fraud. This week, she was arrested on that "cyber libel" charge. Today, Maria Ressa was released on bail. We reached her in Manila.

CO: Ms. Ressa, you have tweeted that you're out, and thanked all your supporters. What has this past 36 hours been like for you?

MARIA RESSA: Shocking, I think. When this whole thing began, when the government tried to revoke the license of Rappler last January, you know I laid out best and worst case scenarios. I just didn't expect to be arrested for something so ludicrous. I mean this is probably the case that we paid the least attention to. I mean in the last year I've had a slew of cases that we are fighting in court. And in the last less than two months I posted bail six times. Today is the sixth time I've done that, so it's been pretty unrelenting.

CO: Tell us about the arrest itself?

MR: It was after 5:00 p.m. — I was in a meeting in the office, and apparently, the officers with National Bureau Investigation got through the alerts that we had put in the building — security. They came up, and we spoke to them, asked them to wait for our lawyers. They were attempting to serve a warrant. I looked at it. It was one count of cyber libel. And I thought that I would be able to get out that night because even though most of the courts close by 5:00 p.m. in the Philippines, there is one court we know that closes at 9 p.m., and there is more than enough time. But the judge in that court refused to accept the bail. And that was only the first part of everything. The second part was that we looked at the arrest warrant, and it was missing something that was fundamental for me to be able to post bail. So it was like a circle that was set up to keep me in detention for the evening.

CO: I understand that they said to the person who was trying to record the arrest is that you don't want to be next.

MR: That's it. You know it's like be silent, or else you're going to be next. That's a threat. And you know I was so proud of our reporter because she just came right back and said I'm doing my job, and she kept rolling, and he then put his hand on it, and she tweeted — she posted it online.

CO: Just on the case itself, the charges are of cyber libel, as you mentioned. It relates to reports that were done years ago — seven years ago. And they are about a businessman and his alleged ties to a former judge. But these reports that you did that was done before this cyber libel law came into effect, right?

MR: That's correct. And that's the first part that you know it just it shocks me that it even gets beyond this. You can’t apply a law retroactively. It just shakes the foundation of the Constitution. In the last few months, what we've seen is really legal acrobatics to find something that that the government could file that would be criminal. That would require an arrest warrant. So it's crazy, but I'm living through it. And sometimes I think I'm Alice in Wonderland, and I've gone down the rabbit hole. But I'll just keep going through until I come out the other side.

CO: Now, President Rodrigo Duterte today has a spokesperson for him insisted in an interview that this these is the cyber libel charges have nothing to do with a government — it's nothing to do with any kind of harassment of you or journalists. It's a completely separate issue related to a private complaint. How do you respond to the government?

MR: Actions speak louder than words. And these charges are ridiculous. You know that I shouldn't have to do this. The law has been weaponized.

CO: What message does this send to other journalists in the Philippines?

MR: Be afraid. I'm a cautionary tale. This is part of the reason after I posted bail, I faced my colleagues, and I hope they got the clear message that I was trying to send — which is don't be afraid. This is meant to intimidate; this is meant to harass, to make it so difficult so that we cannot ask hard questions so that we can't get to the truth to hold the powerful to account. You know in a few weeks we're going to be celebrating the people power movement that really triggered all of these pro-democracy movements all around the world in 1986. That came from the Philippines. It's deep in our psyche. So somehow we have to get beyond the fear. I hope the more voices will join in outrage.

CO: But you know that that President Duterte has talked about the journalists produce fake news, that he has threatened them. He has said they are enemies. Despite all of that, you have reported strenuously about his excesses. But at some point it must wear you down? At some point you must think well I just have to go along with all the others then?

MR: No. Part of it is, look, I've been doing this a long time. I've been a journalist for more than 30 years, and I feel like this is the moment where it actually counts. This isn't the only country where a president has called journalists fake news. There is a global battle to protect democracy. That's why I keep saying we're going to hold the line.

CO: But you know that the tax fraud charges that we spoke with you last time we had you on this show, those charges come with a potential ten years in prison. If you're found guilty of cyber libel, you face a possible sentence of 12 years. This could actually put you in prison.

MR: Yes, it could. But at the same time, there is such a selective execution in our justice system. And I look at several things. I look at the pace of the court system. I mean some of it has been accelerated in my case. I seem to be a favourite. But I also look at the context. President Duterte is halfway through a six-year term. He's got three more years in office. There's a crucial midterm election. He's still extremely popular, but that popularity is seeded and buoyed by a propaganda machine on social media. So you know I think we have to keep telling the story. I don't know where it will end, and that threat is there. But we should never let the threat stop us from doing our jobs.

CO: All right. We'll be following both your coverage, and your case. Ms. Ressa, thank you.

MR: Thanks so much.

NaD: Maria Ressa is the CEO of Rappler, an independent news website in the Philippines. We reached her in Manila. And we've posted more on this story on our website. Go to: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Indie rock]

Coquitlam painter

Guest: Cosimo Geracitano

NaD: Until recently, only a few people knew what Cosimo Geracitano kept inside his house. But then the news broke that the most expensive painting ever sold — Leonardo da Vinci's "Salvator Mundi" — was missing, which was when Mr. Geracitano's friend decided to expose him. The friend told the National Post newspaper that the missing painting was in Mr. Geracitano's house. We reached Cosimo Geracitano at home, in Coquitlam B.C.

CO: Cosimo, as you know, people have been looking for this DaVinci portrait of Jesus for months, and apparently, it's in your house?

COSIMO GERACITANO: No, no. No, it’s a replica that I painted. I took my time painting in every little detail. And I'm really fascinated by the look in the eyes of Salvato Mundi. I'm looking at him right now actually. It looks really magic.

CO: That's not DaVinci’s painting. That's your painting.

CG: It's my painting, yes. But the way I paint I try to replicate it to the best of my ability to every small detail. And sometimes, I take hundreds of hours just for a small painting.

CO: But now this is not the only great master work that you have replicated for your house, right? What are some of the other great paintings that you have that you have made life-size, and hang on your walls?

CG: I have a total of 45 paintings, ranging from the renascence to the impressionism, and some of the artists in that I replicated the work from is Leonardo, Raphael, Michelangelo, and Renoir, Monet, and so on. In the living room alone, I have 18. The biggest one is in the ceiling, and is a replica of the creation of Adam from the Sistine Chapel and Michelangelo.

CO: I've seen a photograph of your of your house, and I did notice that the ceiling was a replica of the Sistine Chapel — quite magnificent. But then too on your walls you have these massive canvases like the the Primavera painting by Botticelli is there. You've got the planets and continents, and you've got everything there in life-size. How long has it taken you to create these or recreate these masterpieces?

CG: I've been working for about ten years steady, almost every day, and I created 45 paintings all together. Right now, there’s no more room in my walls, but I still want to paint. I have the Botticelli you mentioned, that takes a whole wall in the family room. It's eleven foot in width, and eight foot high. It takes me at least three weeks for a small painting — up to six months for a larger one.

CO: Now why did you start doing this? I mean I understand that you were a repairman. You at a repair company for many years. And then You liked to dabble in painting. And now, you've turned your time to recreating these masterpieces. Why?

CG: I just love art. I love these masterworks. I was always fascinated with art history and works of Leonardo, Michelangelo, Raphael especially — the three masters on the renascence. And obviously, I could not afford to buy that painting even if they were for sale. I had to create my own.

CO: But now you're obviously very talented. Why don’t you create your own paintings? Why don’t you do your own original works?

CG: I did some on my own. I mean I started painting around age nine. And on the wall of my father’s house — on the outside of wall — I paint a vessel on a sea. I was visualizing me leaving the town of where we were really poor actually. And I didn’t want to be there. I wanted to run away.

CO: This is in Italy, you're in southern Italy?

CG: Southern Italy, yes. And then eventually, I did leave and came into Canada. And painted a little more until I got married, and then I got busy with business, and I left that completely. For over twenty years, I didn’t paint anymore. And ten years ago, I just say ok, maybe I' go back to painting? And I started the first replica, and then one after the other. Right now, I'm at number 47 painting that I'm painting.

CO: And why are you painting now?

CG: I'm painting the legacy of the planets, and it's quite a large painting. That will go on the ceiling on my dining room.

CO: Now, we know about your collection and your work because a friend of yours let the National Post know about your work. So how do you feel about the fact that you're kind of exposed now for having all these paintings?

CG: I Ok. Obviously, now that the story is out there, I’m happy that people appreciate my work. And you know I feel good about it, yeah.

CO: Well, maybe if this Saudi prince, who paid 450 million dollars for the original DaVinci, maybe he can buy yours, and still be able to see that glint in the eye that you talk about that's in the painting Jesus?

CG: No, I don't think I will sell any of my paintings because I really love them. I cannot afford to buy originals because they're worth hundreds of millions. So my house looks like a little museum. I have a little bit of everything. And it's such a pleasure to just sit here in my living room, and look up in the ceiling and the walls. So much history on this painting that it's kind of nice.

CO: All right, Cosimo I'll leave you to it. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

CG: You are very welcome. Have a nice day.

CO: You too. Bye-bye.

NaD: Cosimo Geracitano is a painter. He's decorated his house with replicas of masterpieces. We reached him in Coquitlam, B.C. You can read more about Mr. Geracitano, and see some of his beautiful masterpeices from side by side paintings. Go to: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Manatoba ambulance birth

NaD: Here's a story about an almost-implausible but heartwarming connection in Manitoba — and it's weirdly appropriate for Valentine's Day. Back in the late 60's, Tracey Bercier was born in an ambulance — on the side of a bridge in Winnipeg, called Salter Street Bridge, which is remarkable in itself. But years later, it got even more remarkable — when Ms. Bercier was watching TV with her husband, and had an amazing epiphany. On CBC Winnipeg's "Information Radio" today, Tracey Bercier talked about that mind-blowing moment.

SOUNDCLIP

TRACEY BERCIER: We were watching “ER”, and they were responding to a like a horrible traffic accident. And so you know it was it was yuck. I turned to my husband. We'd been living together for about a year, and I don't even think he knew this story about my birth or anything. It just never came up. And I turned to him and I said oh, I could never do that, responding to traffic accidents or be a paramedic. And he said oh, my dad did that. And his dad had multiple different jobs. So we had talked about it before. I said yeah right, like your dad did that. Your dad did everything. And he said no, no, he did. And so he phoned him. And my father-in-law was quite loud, and I could hear him when he. So he called and said Dad, were you ever an ambulance attendant? And he said Yeah. And there was something about those Salter Street Bridge. I don't know if it was a bump or what? but babies being born on there. And I heard him, and I just looked at him and I said give me the phone. So I guess I asked him I said do you remember where you picked up the women? And he said yes, one was on McGregor, and the other one was on a street off at the end of Salter. And my parents at that time lived on Templeton, which was at the end of Salter. And so I just said oh my goodness, like I think you were there when I was born.

MARCY MARKUSA: Your husband I understand looks at you, and right after, you know he says something to you. What did he say? Oh, can I read it? Oh my gosh. So Tracey Bercier is in tears. That's how romantic this is. You want me to do it. Her husband looks at her and says my father was the first person to hold you, and I will be the last. And she wrote 27 years later, I believe that he's right.

NaD: Tracey Bercier was born in an ambulance on a bridge in Winnipeg in the late '60s. Years later, she discovered that the man who helped bring her into this world was the man who would become her father-in-law. She spoke to CBC's Marcy Markusa in Winnipeg today.

[Music: Electronica]

Part two: SNC: Goodale, Hati: doctor

SNC: Goodale

Guest: Ralph Goodale

NaD: Jody Wilson-Raybould's silence is becoming deafening. As we go to air, the former Attorney General still hasn't explained her resignation from cabinet. Ms. Wilson-Raybould has only released a statement — which says she's seeking legal advice on what she can and cannot say about allegations that she was pressured by the Prime Minister's Office to help SNC Lavalin avoid a criminal trial. The Prime Minister hasn't been quite so reticent. Justin Trudeau has offered various denials to the allegations, and he's insisted that if Ms Wilson-Raybould had a problem, she failed in her duty to tell him. Ralph Goodale is the Minister of Public Safety. We reached him at the Toronto airport.

CO: Minister Goodale, we have been asking for an interview about Jody Wilson-Raybould’s resignation all week, and then finally, your office contacted us — which was a reversal. What's your message? What are you hoping to accomplish?

RALPH GOODALE: Well, the issue is obviously one that's so concerning to the government, and concerning to Canadians. We're dealing with here a set of unspecified allegations that have not been independently substantiated or corroborated from an anonymous source. But, nonetheless, they are of a nature that raised concern among Canadians. And we simply want to make it clear, as the prime minister has done on several occasions this past week. He's been very clear and unequivocal that no rules or procedures have been violated here by the government or by his office or by him. And that no issue or complaint of the nature that appeared in the newspaper stories had been previously raised with him before those stories appeared.

CO: All right. And that we've heard. We heard from the prime minister, we're hearing from you. But there's a huge development, isn't there, since that Bob Fife story in the Globe and Mail was first published with those anonymous sources. What we have now is the resignation of the justice minister — of Jody Wilson-Raybould — and waiting to hear why she's done that. It's obviously a statement she's making. Why would she resign from such a high place if there wasn't a serious problem within her office, and within her relationship with your party?

RG: Well, we don't have that answer from the former minister. And it will be important to get that answer in due course. We all regret losing a former colleague. But the cabinet is strong and cohesive, so is caucus, we have work to do. We want to get on with that with that work. While there's an orderly and logical way and a way that's very forthcoming to provide the explanations or the information at least that the Canadians want.

CO: But you say there's no you say there's no pressure from Justin Trudeau to go back to the case that the Globe and Mail presented. No pressure from Justin Trudeau on the SNC Lavalin case. He says that. But do we know that did not come from the Prime Minister's Office? That office is powerful, the people in it are powerful, we have seen that before even your government as well. What evidence do you have, what proof do you have that she was not getting pressure from Gerald Butts, or from anybody else? How do you know that's not the case?

RG: Well, the prime minister's comment and testimony thus far in the public arena makes that very clear that there were there were no rules or procedures here or activities that violated any of the of the protocols — and that the further point being that that if there had been a concern, it had not been raised prior to the story appearing in the in the Globe and Mail.

CO: Can you see that the Canadians are not satisfied with these answers? And that you have a situation where your government — the Liberals — came in saying we're going to do things differently. We're not going to be like the old guard here. And that what it looks like is that it's business as usual — that it's the it's the executive branch, it's the PMO that seems to have the ability to act and to put pressure to interfere outside of whatever the cabinet might be up to?

RG: Well, again, that's an allegation that has been made. It hasn't been proven. But there are at least two avenues of inquiry here that I think are going to be very helpful. The ethics commissioner is obviously launching a procedure to see if there was any pressure applied of any nature, and we'll see what he comes forward with. But the parliamentary committee, even though there's been some criticism of the committee's hearing yesterday, the parliamentary committee is actually proceeding in this matter in what would appear to be a very logical manner. They are, first of all, going to look at these new legal tools that are called deferred prosecution agreements — what are they? They've never existed before in Canadian law. When can they properly be used, and so forth? Secondly, this issue of privilege and what a former minister or former Attorney General may or may not be able to comment upon publicly? That's an important legal point. Ms. Wilson Raybould has her own legal counsel looking at that. The new Attorney General David Lametti is looking at that. And now the committee is going to look at that question. What are the fences around this issue of privilege? And does it really constrain the minister — the former minister — in these circumstances from saying what she would like to say? And then thirdly, examining the dual roles of the Attorney General. On the one hand, the Attorney General is also the minister of justice, making political or policy decisions. And on the other hand, that individual as Attorney-General is the independent chief law officer of the Crown. And how do those two roles fit together?

CO: The committee is not going to speak with Gerald Butts, who is a key figure in this. It's not going to speak with Jody Wilson-Raybould. That is the most key figure in all this. So you say that we're going to information, if not answers, from all of this. Do you really think the Canadian public is going to be satisfied by what this committee is going to do?

RG: Well, the committee is just starting its examination. It's starting with these three issues that I identified. Begin at the beginning with the logical first questions. That's what it's going to do. And then the committee can decide what other evidence it needs to hear, what other people it needs to call. The committee is the master of its own agenda. And I have every expectation that the Liberal members on that committee will want to provide a process and a way of eliciting information and knowledge here that responds effectively to the concerns that Canadians have expressed. No one wants those concerns to just hang out there without being properly answered.

CO: All right. We know you have a flight to catch. We’ll let this go. Mr. Goodale, thank you.

RG: Thank you. Nice to talk to you.

NaD: Ralph Goodale is the Minister of Public Safety. We reached him at the Toronto airport.

[Music: Indie rock]

Sting GM closure

NaD: The closure of a GM plant in Oshawa, Ontario, might not seem like a top concern for a superstar British singer. But for Sting, the story hit close to home. Today he and the Toronto cast of his musical, "The Last Ship," played a free show in Oshawa in support of the 3,000 auto workers who are slated to lose their jobs this December. Here's part of what he said about it.

SOUNDCLIP

STING: It was very important to come here and make a connection with the workers here because the story we’re telling on the stage every night at the Princess of Wales is this story. It's a very human story, and it's a very common story. And so we wanted to come here and express our solidarity and our support for their struggle. But it's quite uncanny the parallel between what we're doing on stage every night and what we're seeing today. I come from a town called Wallsdnd, on Tyneside, in the north east of England. And we only had two industries in the town. One was a coal mine, and one was a shipyard. I lived within spitting distance of the shipyard. And as a young kid, I would think that would be my destiny. The yard was closed by the government in the eighties. And we were one of most famous shipyards in the world, building some of the largest vessels ever constructed on planet earth right at the end of my street. The work was incredibly hard and very dangerous. But those men and women were incredibly proud of the work they did — of the ships that were built there. And so I wanted to invest the play with that sense of pride, that sense of community, that sense of dignity and decency, and I hope you feel the resonance here in this town — it's the same thing. You know you have the dignity of your work, the pride of your work, who you are. You are what you do. That’s one of the lines of Francis says in the play, you are what you do. You take that away, what are you?

NaD: That's British singer Sting, speaking in Oshawa. Today, he headed a free performance of his musical, "The Last Ship," in support of workers at the local GM plant that is slated to close later this year.

[Music: Ambient]

Hati: Doctor

Guest: Heather Dow

NaD: Dr. Heather Dow and her colleagues are going to be in Haiti a little longer than they'd planned. Dr. Dow's medical team was planning to spend two weeks delivering free medical aid in small communities outside Port-au-Prince. Then protesters started taking to the streets. And demands for the ouster of Haiti's president led to violent clashes and live fire from police. The violence has now left at least seven people dead. Canada has closed its embassy. And, with protesters blockading the highways, Heather Dow has no safe way of reaching her flight home. We reached Dr. Dow in Plage Morisseau, Haiti.

CO: Dr. Dow, what is preventing you from getting home?

HEATHER DOW: Well, over the last week, since February 7^th, there have been street demonstrations and roadblocks — particularly in Port au Prince. But in some of the other principle communities — and because there's only one road that goes to Haiti, the route national number two, that connects rural Haiti with the rest of this country — it's been impossible to get through to the airport in Port au Prince.

CO: What would you encounter if you took the highway and tried to get to the airport?

HD: Well, there was a gentleman that came here on a motorcycle yesterday from Port au Prince. He wanted to test the road to see if it was passable. He was stopped several times. At one roadblock, he was threatened with handguns. The demand was for him to identify himself. We've been told that at the roadblocks, some of the people are demanding money or even taking people for ransom. And to demonstrate to the president of Haiti that they're very unhappy with the economic situation in Haiti.

CO: I know this is not your first trip to Haiti; you're not new to this environment. So you've seen this coming? When you headed down there, did you know this was a possibility or cense it?

HD: No, we didn't because we were here pretty much the exact same dates last year without any problems. But I've learned something from this trip that it's important to check the political climate of the country that one is hoping to visit before going. There has been some unrest, starting last summer, over President Jovenel Moïse’s policies, allegations of corruption in his government, and failure to meet the promises that he made to the Haitian population that no one would be going hungry and everyone would have jobs. The unemployment rate here now is 60 per cent, and inflation has reached 15 per cent over the last year. I guess this has been simmering for a while. But February 7th is a pivotal date in the Haitian count there that I wasn't aware of: the anniversary of the overthrow of the Duvalier dictatorship. And the Haitian population has used that as kind of a touchstone to start this series of demonstrations, which have gone on much longer than most times.

CO: And they do seem to be far more volatile and violent than they have been in the past. Is that your sense?

HD: That's true. The roadblocks are made up of cement, wire, burning tires, that sort of thing. And they're impassable except for motorcycles that can go down into the ditch around them. But the people that are manning the blockades have been fairly violent. And there have been reports of quite violent clashes in Port au Prince. To the extent that the police have used live fire, as well as tear gas, and several people have been killed and many wounded.

CO: And you know from your visits there that Haiti is already on the line of being one of the poorest countries in the world; high levels of poverty and illness. And I guess things have really taken a turn even for the worst in recent years, especially since they depend on oil from Venezuela. So does it seem that people are worse off this year than they were when you came the last time?

HD: I would say that the general temperament of the population has been different. The Haitian people are very open, and they're very strong and resilient. But it seems like there's a bit of an air of despair in the population now that I didn't notice on previous trips.

CO: As a Canadian, any concerns? Because we've been hearing reports that people feel that the Canadian government has been too comfortable President Jovenel Moïse, and that they do see Canadians as the kind of ally of the man they now regard as an enemy — at least those who are in the protests. Have you found any hostility as a Canadian?

HD: I don't think any hostility toward me personally or the group because we're Canadian. But it certainly is an uncomfortable position to be in knowing that France, the U.S., and Canada have been in full support of Jovenel Moïse, and basically seem to have propped up his government so far. And I think the possibility may be there that the reason why so little has been said about the problems in Haiti over the last six months is that Canada is generally supporting the regimen that Moïse has put in place. That's just the personal opinion of mine.

CO: The Canadian embassy is closed, right?

HD: Yes, it is.

CO: And what can you do as far as your efforts to get out — get back to Canada.

HD: I don't think that the Canadian embassy was really too excited about helping private citizens back anyway. It’s like the declaration or statement that they put out was aimed more at diplomatic individuals. So I think that we're just working on the ground here with the connections that we have in New Brunswick and in Haiti to see whether we can find a safe way to get back to Port au Prince.

CO: All right. Well, I hope everything goes well for you, and you get home, Dr. Dow. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

HD: Thank you very much, Carol. And may I just say how much I've admired your work over the years. I listen to you regularly.

CO: Thank you very much. Take care.

HD: OK. Have a good night.

CO: Bye.

HD: Bye-bye.

NaD: Heather Dow is an emergency room doctor from Woodstock, New Brunswick. We reached her in Plage Morisseau, Haiti.

[Music: Horns!]

Group moose calling

NaD: Amazing achievement. Thank God no moose were around. Last June, one-thousand-and fifty-four people packed the grandstands at the state fairgrounds in Skowhegan, Maine. Then, Roger Lambert — a registered guide — first demonstrated, and the led everyone in a group moose call. Here's what it sounded like.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: A man leads an assembled group of people in what appaears to be a moose mating call.]

NaD: That's the sound of more than one thousand people in Skowhegan, Maine, issuing a group moose call last summer. After eight months of verifying the exact number of people involved, Guinness World Records has confirmed Skowhegan's group moose call has set a world record. Guinness also says it's the only group moose call entry they've ever received. Tomorrow, the town of Skowhegan will have a party to celebrate its achievement, and maybe the fact that they didn't cause a stampede.

Part three: Convent escape research, Russia mystery investigation, FOA: AIH Lonely Hearts Club

Convent escape research

Guest: Sarah Rees Jones

NaD: In the year 1318, in northern England, there was a nun who decided she didn't want to be a nun anymore. And she chose to kick the habit in an especially convoluted way. It was pretty dramatic — but in retrospect, it's so comical that it has scholars making references to Monty Python movies. Her story has been uncovered in a letter from her archbishop that tells an elaborate tale of deception, betrayal...and lust. Sarah Rees Jones is the director of the Centre for Medieval Studies at the University of York in England. That is where we reached her.

CO: Sarah, what do you know about why Joan of Leeds wanted to leave her convent?

SARAH REES JONES: Well, that's an interesting question because this is a medieval letter that we found that records Joan's flight from the convent. But it doesn't tell us much about her motivation. It simply wants to paint a picture in which she has wickedly as a sinful nun abandoning her vocation — has run away from the religious life. And almost certainly her motivation was more complicated than that. But we don't have her side of the story.

CO: You say that in this letter, which the language is extraordinary, that she imprudently cast aside the propriety of religion, and the modesty of her sex. And that she the archbishop who's writing the letter says she wanted to pursue the way of carnal lust. Do you know if that's true, or is that part of the truth?

SRJ: It's very likely to be part of the truth. A number of nuns did flee their religious vocation — a number of monks as well. And in several other cases, we know it was because they wanted to get married.

CO: Her escape, he gives some hints as to how she did it, which is quite brazen and extraordinary. Can you describe what you've learned?

SRJ: So the letter says that there’s this scandalous rumor that she had crafted a dummy in the likeness of her own body, and then had no shame in procuring or getting it to be buried in a sacred space. So usually, we don't have that kind of detail. In fact, I can't think of any other story that's quite like that. And then we have stories of people climbing over walls and riding away on horses. But it's the sort of fabrication of her death. I mean it shows in some ways how serious the matter was for her that it wasn't enough to run away. She had to actually try and trick people into believing that she died. But it's also very ingenious, isn't it?

CO: She simulated a bodily illness, he says, pretended to be dead, and then she had what he describes as numerous accomplices and evil doers. How many other people do think we're involved in this clever escape?

SRJ: It's typical that she did have accomplices because, in many other similar stories, there is an accomplice. In other stories they're sometimes named, here they aren't. Either they don't know, or there's a sort of effort to really put the blame on her herself.

CO: And this description that well that she crafted a dummy in the likeness of her body, and had it buried. It seems to suggest that there was a religious ceremony — that she actually had at a funeral with a devoted faithful. So this was added to the shame according to the archbishop.

SRJ: And that makes you speculate, and you can't do more than that, that other women in that house were her accomplices because her procured a sacred burial without somebodies help inside the house would have been quite hard. I guess from this that she used a shroud because at that time in the early 14th century, people were commonly buried in shrouds. And shrouds, of course, would have the shape of the body, but perhaps filled it with earth or something else.

CO: As you say, this is the early 14th century — this is 1318 this letter from the Archbishop is dated. How did you find it?

SRJ: I uncovered this particular story a while ago when I was helping my then PhD supervisor to research a history of this religious house. But we've sort of exposed it more fully recently because we've just got funding from our National Arts and Humanities Research Council to explore not just this story, but the whole archive of registers in which this story is found — the material from which has not been published or explored in full.

CO: Just back to Joan of Leeds, why would she want to leave the convent? What is it that she and others wanted to flee?

SRJ: There are records of sometimes religious people finding their religious life though a monotonous. In other cases, it was the desire to lead a secular life — either to have sexual relationships and get married, to get away from the vow of celibacy, or even to escape the vow of poverty. Because we know of other cases where a person might become an heiress, perhaps a family member died leaving them some property. But as a religious dedicated to poverty, they wouldn't be allowed to inherit. We don't really know what the case was in Joan. The reason that it is implied in Milton's letter is that she'd entered into a kind of sexual relationship.

CO: You described it as when you discovered the letter and read it, it was like an excerpt from a Monty Python scene.

SRJ: Yes, exactly. That probably betrays my age, but you can imagine it being a comedy sketch. Even contemporaries at the time — someone like Chaucer writing not long afterwards — could have you know made quite a lot of fun out of this story. And I even wonder if the reason for the detail being recorded in this letter when it wasn't strictly necessary to the legal purpose of the letter was because people found it extraordinary and even entertaining.

CO: It really does seem like A Canterbury Tale, doesn't it?

SRJ: It does. It does indeed, yes.

CO: Just one line when I ask you, she now wanders at large, to the notorious peril of her soul, and the scandal of all of her order is what the archbishop writes. Would there have been consequences for the other nuns?

SRJ: Certainly, it is a sin. Because from the church's perspective, once a woman had professed as a nun, that profession was binding. And her vows were binding for the rest of her life. So it was a mortal sin, and it would certainly not help the reputation of that convent particularly since we know there are a number of similar cases of women escaping or running away from that convent.

CO: Gosh, what you wouldn't do to know the whole story of Joan of Leeds.

SRJ: Absolutely. There's definitely you know a film or a novel or something to be made out of this story and also other stories like it because I think it's when you put them all together that you get a kind of more rounded picture of the choices facing young women at the time.

CO: Sarah, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

SRJ: Thank you very much.

NaD: Sarah Rees Jones is the director of the Centre for Medieval Studies at the University of York in England. There’s more on that story onour website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Folk]

Russian mystery investigation

Guest: Keith McCloskey

NaD: Sixty years ago, a group of students set out on a hiking trip in the mountains of northern Russia. They never returned home. Their bodies were found, but the mystery of what exactly happened to the nine young people endures. In fact, there are so many different theories about what happened on that trip in February of 1959 that, earlier this month, Russian authorities reopened their investigation into the so-called incident at the Dyatlov Pass, named for the group's leader — Igor Dyatlov. Keith McCloskey is an author of two books about the questions that have been swirling over the decades. He has his own theory about what happened — one he laments this new investigation won't touch. We reached him in Hungerford, England.

CO: Keith, I know you have been to this place in the Euro Mountains where the bodies were found. What impressions does it make when you stand there?

KEITH MCCLOSKEY: It's awe-inspiring, and it's a strange feeling to stand there because you know that people have died there. They've died inexplicable deaths if you like because nobody's ever really got to the bottom of how they died.

CO: And this was in 1959. These students — nine of them — were hiking. What was the purpose of that hike?

KM: Well, there was actually ten of them hiking. One of them became ill, and he turned around and went back — fortunately for him. But they were all from a university, and they were on what they call ski tourism. It's hiking and skiing and testing their abilities in extreme conditions. It was very popular in the Soviet Union at the time.

CO: They were both men and women?

KM: There was two women in the group. The remainder were all men.

CO: They were supposed to send a telegram to the tenth member of the part of the expedition when they arrived at their destination. And that telegram never arrived, and then there was a search party sent out. Can you describe the scene as you know it that the search party discovered?

KM: They found the tent first. But, of course, there was no bodies at the tent. The tent was found in a collapsed condition, with snow slowly covering it. Not too much snow, but they then found tracks which led down to a tree line which is about a kilometre-and-a-half from where the tent was found. And they found the first two bodies the following day. And then they found the remainder of the first group of bodies over that first couple of days. But they didn't find the remaining four bodies until May.

CO: The bodies were in in different locations. What was the state of those remains?

KM: This is where the whole mystery comes from. The first group of bodies that were found were really frozen to death, but the remaining bodies had died of some of them had serious injuries, which were like the sort of injuries you'd have in a car crash. So this second group the way they died appears to have been different to the way the first group died. There's no satisfactory explanation for the injuries. There was no markings on the body, and there was radiation was discovered in some of the clothes of them.

CO: And just to go back to the group that was found that had signs of some kind of trauma, I understand that one of the women was missing her tongue.

KM: That's the thing, she was missing her tongue. The autopsy didn't say that the tongue was torn out, but it's an odd one. And there's various theories for that. Some people say that the tongue had been removed by force. Others say that it it's possible that it could have been bacteria that had eaten away at the tongue. And other people say that it was possibly small animals that had eaten the tongue away.

CO: And the group who that was found that had walked away, see the footprints in the snow, they were found wearing only underwear, and there seem to be around some kind of a campfire arrangement, right?

KM: There's two schools of thought about that. Some people think that some of the others had removed their outer clothing to try and keep themselves warm because they had all left the tent in a hurry, and with minimal clothing. Some of them only had socks on their feet. The temperatures were down to minus 27. There's another school of thought that thinks that they fell to what’s called paradoxical undressing, where your blood vessels rise to the surface, and you think you're really hot. But, in fact, it's the opposite. They’d taken their clothes off to try and cool down, but all they're doing is hastening their own death really.

CO: All of this adds up to an extraordinary mystery, which is, of course, why you wrote about it and investigated it. But at the time, in 1959, the investigation the authorities ruled they said there were no signs of struggle, and they closed the case. How was how could that be, given all that you have discovered about this strange state of their death?

KM: Well, this is the crux of the whole mystery: why was it closed down? The deputy process prosecutor basically shut the case down. But if this was a case of misadventure, which is really what they are potentially saying it is, why would somebody so senior arrived from Moscow and say close the case down? And the area was closed off for a number of years afterwards as well — nobody could go up there. But if it was a genuine accident, people would be warned to be more careful. You wouldn't close the place down for years and not let anybody go into that area. The whole thing is really peculiar. The way that the case was closed down, and that they died of an unknown, compelling, or unknown elemental force, it doesn't mean anything. We've been pressing to have the case reopened. I mean many people have over the years, so we're quite pleased if you like that the case is being reopened.

CO: And why do you think that's the case? Why do you think they're reopening the case?

KM: I think the case has been reopened to reach a final conclusion, and then it will be shut down forever. That's my take on it. And the terms of reference are pretty narrow; they're not gonna be looking at any criminal behaviour. There's no suggestion that military acts may have been the cause of it. It's just going to be an avalanche, a snow slab, or high winds in the area. None of those things that to my mind really answer what happened to them.

CO: And what do you think happened to them?

KM: I think it was a military accident. Yeah, there's many theories out there. Authorities have said it themselves. But that's my take on it anyway, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. But, unfortunately, that is not going to be looked at with the reopening of the case.

CO: Do you think the radiation had some could do with it then?

KM: Yes, I do. I don't think it's a massive radiation leak or a nuclear test or anything like that. But there were weapons that were being used at the time that involved some elements of radiation as well. Again, if they died just of the cold, why would you look for radiation?

CO: Well, we look forward to your new writing about this — your new review. And, Keith, it’s such a mystery. But I appreciate you telling it to us. Thank you.

KM: Thank you, Carol. Thank you very much.

NaD: Keith McCloskey is the author of two books about the Dyatlov pass: "Mountain of the Dead" and "Journey to Dyatlov Pass". We reached him in Hungerford, England.

[Music: Strings]

FOA: AIH Lonely Hearts CLub

NaD: Long before online dating, "As It Happens" was in the business of love. In the '70s, this program ran a segment called "The Lonely Hearts Club". And that segment brought Karen and Bob Craigue together. Back in 1975, Bob called into the show looking for someone to share his life with. Karen answered — and the two have been married ever since. In honour of Valentines Day, we thought we'd celebrate that love story -- and our own exquisite matchmaking skills — once again. From September of last year, here is Carol speaking with Karen Craigue from Perth, Ontario.

[sc]

CO: Karen, just take us back to 1973. How did you first hear about the As It Happens Lonely Hearts segment?

KAREN CRAIGUE: The mother of a good friend of mine knew that I was going to leave Toronto and she heard the segment and she thought these guys sound interesting. And so she passed the information to me. I'm a strong believer in fate and I thought ‘Why not?’

CO: But you had you didn't listen to As It Happens yourself, you heard you heard it.

KC: I always listen to As It Happens but I didn't hear that one.

CO: So we learned ourselves because of your call that we had these classifieds on As It Happens all those years ago. So what did you learn about how you get into the Lonely Hearts Club?

KC: I just thought ‘Okay, I’d like to write to these fellows,’ and phoned CBC to get an address. As I said, I hadn't heard them. But I just thought ‘Oh, this is an interesting way to get out of the city,’ you know, all kinds of possibilities.

CO: But it was just your friend's mom who told you about this nice sounding bachelor was who was on CBC Radio.

KC: That's right. And I trusted her implicitly. So I thought ‘Oh she wouldn't steer me wrong.’

KC: Well now, you know what, you've never heard it, right — the actual tape, other message. And neither have I. So you know what? I think we should both have a listen. This is August 14th 1975 from our archives and the original ad.

MARY COOPER: Farmers in the valley near McBride, British Columbia are looking for brides. Here's Bob Crane to tell us about.

BOB CRAIGUE I'm one of about 20 single men in the McBride B.C. area that have small farms in the country. Most of us have obtained all our goals except to find the proper woman who would our country life and lots of good old-fashioned hard work. Any ladies between 22 to 30, with or without children, interested in living the good life in the mountains, should write to me, Bob Craigue, Dunster B.C. and I'll give all the extra replies to the other single men in the valley.

MC: Keep listening for more classifieds next week. Personally yours, Mary Cooper.

CO: Oh my gosh, that is so vintage.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: Okay, so that's Bob. That's your Bob.

MC: Yeah, that's my Bob.

CO: So you haven't heard this, Bob Craigue — now your husband, right?

MC: Yeah, yeah. And we’ve been married 41 years.

CO: When you hear that what is your reaction?

MC: I'm not surprised at all. I guess maybe I was expecting something very similar. Not surprised.

CO: He wasn't just advertising for himself, but a whole bunch of men who were looking for brides.

MC: I know there was a few of them. Well, I think at that time a lot of the young single women were — if they were growing up there, they were more looking to get out of Dodge, so to spoeak. They wanted to go to the big city.

MC: We talked on the phone a few times and we wrote back and forth a few times, and then that October I flew out to Edmonton, took the bus. He picked me up on the Highway 16 at the Dunster turn off and I spent 10 days there. I thought ‘Okay, this guy's alright.’ And the beautiful valley — absolutely stunning place. So, I mean, there was no question about what if anyone would ever want to live there. That's for sure. He had built his own A-frame. It was a 400 square foot A-frame with an outhouse and a hand pump in the kitchen and a beautiful creek running right by the front of the house. He built a barn, he had a few animals and a cat and chickens. And I thought ‘Boy, this is pretty nice here.’ So in the end the March of ‘76 I moved out there.

CO: And without As It Happens you wouldn’t have met Bob and none of this would have happened.

MC: That's right. We wouldn't be talking.

CO: We are indeed under the As It Happens. And it's just — I'm so glad you called and told us, we never would have known about this but it really is fun and I hope you have many, many more happy years together with your husband and your kids.

MC: Thank you so much for digging up the original clip.

CO: It was our pleasure. We'll send it to you so you’ve got a copy of it.

MC: Thank you very much.

CO: Thanks, Karen. Take care.

MC: You too.

NaD: That was Karen Craigue speaking with Carol last September. And a very happy Valentine's Day to Bob and Karen — and to you. And you can read more about their story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: What is this?]

Bonsai theft

NaD: They looked down — and their trees were gone. The thieves hadn't used an axe or a chainsaw. They probably just used a trowel. Over the course of a few nights last month, they stole 120,000 dollars' worth of tiny trees — including one rare shimpaku bonsai that's more than 400 years old. The owners of those trees are Seiji and Fuyumi Iimura — who have a 5000-hectare park in Japan, not far from Tokyo. Seiji Iimura is a fifth-generation bonsai master. Starting in the 17th century, his ancestors painstakingly reduced that one bonsai in size, through judicious pruning and careful manipulation. Now, it's gone. And with it, 400-plus years of dedicated, intimate work by one family. As Fuyumi Iimura said, quote, "There are no words to describe how we feel. It's like having your limbs lopped off." Unquote. Obviously, the Iimuras want their trees back. But since that's unlikely, Fuyumi Iimura has one plea. Quote: "I want whoever took the bonsais to make sure they are watered. The shimpaku lived for 400 years. It needs care and can't survive a week without water." Unquote. Maybe the thieves will show some compassion and take back what they stole. Because that one in particular is more than just a valuable plant. It's the Iimura family tree.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

February 14, 2019 episode transcript

More Stories Like This