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The AIH Transcript for February 11, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Nana aba Duncan

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

NANA aba DUNCAN: Good evening. I'm Nana aba Duncan, sitting in for Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

NaD: Tonight...

CO: A correspondent's course. For decades, the late journalist Joe Schlesinger covered the world for the CBC -- helping make order of chaos, and serving as a beacon in the fog of war.

NaD: Personally invested. Former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney says former Finance Minister, ambassador and financier Michael Wilson was a man whose modesty masked a willingness to fight for what he thought was right.

CO: The cold light of day. Yesterday morning in Edmonton bus driver pulled over when he saw a man collapsed in frigid temperatures -- and he may have saved his life.

NaD: Once more unto the breach, deer friends. And yesterday, in Oshawa, Ontario, a small herd of deer leaped into various breaches -- including the one they smashed in the window of a politician's office.

CO: When the chips were down. The late Republican Congressman Walter Jones was one of the men behind the angry renaming of "French fries" to become "freedom fries" -- but he dropped that issue when he turned against the Iraq war.

NaD: And...papa's got a brand-new bug. Actually, B.C. caver Craig Wagnell doesn't have kids -- so he's especially pleased that the weird species of insect he's discovered will carry his name. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that guesses if he's not its father, he's at least it's spelunk-le.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Species of insect named after B.C. caver

Joe Schlesinger obit

Guest: Brian Stewart

NaD: If there was news in the latter part of the 20th century, Joe Schlesinger was likely there. As a foreign correspondent, he bore witness in Vietnam, and the fall of the Berlin Wall. He stood in Tehran when the Shah fell in 1979, and was on the ground during the first Gulf War. Joe Schlesinger died today. He was 90 years old. Here's one of his reports during the Gulf War for CBC, circa 1991.

SOUNDCLIP

JOE SCHLESINGER: Over the battlefield, where the bodies of the dead are being removed, floats the sound of music.

[Music: Beethoven's "Fur Elise"]

JOE SCHLESINGER: The music comes from a greeting card for Eid, a Muslim holiday in April -- the card's owner will never see. The news stories of this battle spoke of tanks and weapons destroyed -- but among the hawks of war machines there are reminders of the human dimension of the disaster that happened here -- that the people who died here had kids -- that children may have died here. The jewelry, did it belong to whoever brought it here? More likely, it was stolen by an Iraqi soldier from a Kuwaiti.

NaD: Mr. Schlesinger also led a remarkable life. His parents who were later killed in the Holocaust, sent Joe and his brother Ernie to Britain under the Kindertransport program -- effectively saving their lives. In an interview in 2009, he told Anna Maria Tremonti about his life -- and how he caught the journalism bug early.

SOUNDCLIP

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: We have looked back on who and what you've covered over -- I see this number on the page I have written here -- 61 years. 61 years! Joe Schlesinger -- as a journalist.

JOE SCHLESINGER: 65 and three days.

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: Okay we lost a few days then. That's a long time.

JOE SCHLESINGER: I was in a boarding school for Czech refugee children in Wales -- and I used to go down at 6 o'clock in the morning and listen to the BBC broadcasts 'To His Majesty's ships at sea -- at dictation speed, and I would take it down every day, every morning, and post it on the notice board. And that particular day I added something. The report spoke of sea and air battles in the channel, and I said it seems a second front has started. When the kids came down for breakfast, they all kidded me, harassed me, that I'd been dreaming because there was nothing on the radio. And then two or three hours later, the BBC broke into its programming -- with a communique signed by some American general named Eisenhower or something like that, saying that D-Day landings had started in Normandy. And I had myself a world scoop.

NaD: That was an interview with Joe Schlesinger from 2009 with Anna Maria Tremonti on CBC's "The Current." Tune into The Current tomorrow morning to hear that full conversation. Brian Stewart is another former foreign correspondent on CBC who worked with Joe for many years. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Brian first of all I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

BRIAN STEWART: Thank you very much.

CO: That second clip from Joe and his first 'scoop' which is D-Day, does that surprise you?

BS: It doesn't surprise me at all because Joe was so incredibly curious. No matter where he was, he always seemed to be finding new things that other people hadn't or things ahead of other people. He just was massively curious with almost every angle or aspect of the world.

CO: He always seemed to be in the right place at the right time. I mean he was in Vietnam. He was there at the fall of the Berlin Wall. It was in St. Peter's Square when John Paul II became Pope. Gorbachev came to Washington -- he was there. Reagan goes to Moscow -- he's there. I mean he had that kind of journalistic horseshoe up someplace right?

BS: Absolutely. The great ones have it. I have never quite figured out what it was but they sure have it. I mean when you're in the field -- in this business we're not only good chums and friends, but we're kind of competitive -- we are competitors. And when Joe would come into another big story we're covering like the Berlin Wall say or the Gulf War -- you always had an instinctive of feeling right off -- you're going to be playing for silver and bronze, not gold [Laughter] because you'd know who's going to be getting the gold medal -- and he always did.

CO: I mean he earned it, right? Because I can recall even after he retired, you'd be Sunday afternoon or whatever in the building -- and he'd come running in because he had heard a story had broken and he was going to cover it. I mean he was like the fireman -- the first one down the pole even years after his retirement.

BS: Unbelievable. I was covering the Gulf War one night. He was trying to get in with a bunch of reporters -- they were trying to block from going in. And I get up to this checkpoint where they're trying to keep everybody back. And there are fires going off in the background and the oil wells are blazing -- it's like a vision of hell. And the reporter who was absolutely in the front is Joe. He's 64 years old. He's way ahead of all the others. He was always pushing us to get in and move more, and he made everybody a little better at their job.

CO: He could make you care about stories even if they were remote and they dealt with people who seemed so far away from your own life, your own experiences -- he had some way of reporting on that and writing about it that would connect your empathy with who he was reporting on, didn't he?

BS: Yes I think that's very true Carol. And I do believe that a part of it goes back to his own childhood and the murder of his family during the Holocaust and his own narrow escape from that. I think it pained him, as it would, for the rest of his life. It gave him a great empathy for other people who were subjects of tyranny, brutes, and bullies of all kinds. He had a great humanitarian sense of justice and outrage to him that the business needed -- and he had a way of doing it in a way that was not only right but the kind of classy that people would take notice of it.

CO: In that clip we played as well he refers to begin in a Czech refugee camp and he was a refugee. He did experience these things -- he lost his family in the Holocaust. But he was part of something called the Kindertransport. Years later he told us about that -- what's the story there?

BS: Well it was this British gentleman who was a Knight or something or Sir -- anyway he organized this railway to go from Czechoslovakia to England filled with young Jewish kids, to get them out from under the Nazis, who were going really extremely brutal in the late 30s -- and get them out of what he saw was coming. And he put on -- I think it was 670 of these kids -- each had a suitcase and they got on the train, and they went off to England. And Joe was one of them. It was a remarkable rescue. So Joe got into England and was sent to a boarding school. Unfortunately left behind, was the family that were exterminated. And it's just such a remarkable early life example of both the horrors and the possibilities of life I guess. So that's the other thing I should mention -- he was always, even in really miserable places where the war was going on like El Salvador, he was always able to find the good people that stood out, the people who are ready to risk being Red Cross workers in refugee camps and stand up to death squads and things like that. So had a very good sense of, no matter how grim things are -- there are some very good people that will be working around here and I want to find them.

CO: Here's a quote from him -- he told a newspaper -- "If I could choose one moment, it would be going back to Prague 50 years after I left as a refugee from Hitler -- 40 years after I left as a refugee from Stalin -- and watching the whole system crumble." And he got to see that, didn't he?

BS: Yeah one of my fortunate moments is I got to be there with him. I was big footed again. Joe and I were working on the same story -- I'm just saying that laughingly -- but he was there to see the glorious moment. I mean the hundreds of thousands of people pouring through the streets and in the main square. And people in tears of joy literally. And it was just such a perfect moment for somebody whose family has suffered as his did. And I know it meant an enormous amount to him.

CO: What have we lost with the death of Joe Schlesinger?

BS: Oh I think we lost a really great one. I think for a generation of reporters -- it's certain we have lost somebody who always made us better because he sort of set the bar, and he set the way stories should look and the way they should be approached. We also lost somebody who had this great context of all stories. No matter where the story broke you could sit down with Joe and he would know the history or the background of that country -- and he would put it in some context. And he was an exceptionally great foreign correspondent -- one of the best -- of any country in the world anywhere.

CO: Brian I really appreciate you talking to us about Joe. Thank you.

BS: Thank you very much Carol.

NaD: Brian Stewart is a former foreign correspondent for CBC. We reached him in Toronto. Joe Schlesinger, one of Canada's most respected journalists and a longtime CBC correspondent, died today. He was 90 years old.

[Music]

Edmonton bus driver

Guest: Derek Bailey

NaD: Yesterday, in Edmonton, a bus driver made a stop in the freezing cold. And it may have saved a man's life. Derek Bailey was that bus driver. We reached him in Edmonton.

CO: Derek how cold was it on Sunday morning when you were out driving?

DEREK BAILEY: I believe the temperature was around -30 degrees at the time actually. It felt like -35, even -40 to be honest you. It was exceptionally cold.

CO: Were you alerted to the possibility that there might be people who were out in the cold and needed help?

DB: No we weren't at all. Driving a bus with Edmonton Transit -- it's kind of expected that you will see people out in the cold. There wasn't any kind of mandates or any kind of alerts or anything brought forward indicating that people might be stuck out in the cold though. No I'm afraid not.

CO: So what was it about this man that caught your attention?

DB: Well he was just sitting there by himself kind of almost slumped over within the bus shelter itself. And so when I first rolled up to the bus stop there was only one bus, my bus in particular, that would stop at that particular stop. Sometimes we see people just sitting in the bus shelters because it's a safe place for them to be. In this particular case, once I opened my doors I noticed that he was just still sitting there and you know it took him a few moments to look up to realize that there was a bus there. And at that point I kind of waved him on -- you know encouraging him to get on the bus because I recognized how cold it was. So even if all he was doing was just trying to find a safe place to stay for a little while, to sleep or something like that, I felt personally that there could be better options available to him whether it would be homeless shelter in downtown where he can be going or even just simply staying warm on my bus. It took him several moments to recognize that this is what I was offering to him because I repeated the gesture of waving towards him to get on the bus before he finally proceeded to get on and to sit down.

CO: What state was he in when he got on the bus?

DB: To put it politely, he was in a state of serious distress. To be honest with you he was not very lucid. He moved very slowly. His movements were very staggered. He could barely speak. He could barely even move to be honest with you. And it was while I was driving that I pulled over to another stop because I kept looking at him in my rear-view mirror to see his condition that I realized that he had ice formed all across his face -- because he had a beard on so he had icicles all the way down his entire beard. And looking at him more and more closely, I realized that this Indigenous Aboriginal male was going into shock. He was as white as I was -- and I'm a Caucasian male. That really brought forward a concern for me as well. And it was at that point that I pulled the bus over, I stopped, and I got out of my seat and I approached him to see how well he was. And in fact he was in a very serious situation.

CO: Oh the poor man. You figured he had to get help right away?

DB: Well to give you a bit of background myself ma'am -- I'm actually a former EMS. I was an Emergency Medical Responder prior to joining Edmonton Transit. And in this moment I realized that this man was suffering from moderate to even potentially severe hypothermia. So as I started to gather more information about him I suggested that we call him an ambulance. And he declined at first. He in fact was stuttering the entire time because he couldn't even form complete sentences because he was so cold. I recognised his refusal, and I said okay I am going to get some more information from you first. And I started to gather more information and tried to obtain some vitals. And so while I was feeling both his wrists, the pulse was so shallow because he was so frozen that I recommended again and really reinforced him, we need to call you an ambulance. Right away. Your situation is very serious. And it was at the moment that he agreed to it. So at that point I immediately ran to the front of my bus, pulled the phone off of our bus, and I contacted our control department. So once that information was delivered, I then immediately went back to tending to this gentleman.

CO: What happened when the ambulance arrived? Were they able to help him? Take him away or what happened?

DB: Well shortly after I notified EMS -- I started trying to revive the person that was ill or injured with medical treatment as best I could -- basically just to start rubbing his limbs, rubbing his hands, rubbing his arms, and rubbing his back, and such to stimulate warmth. At which point he was starting to show some cognitive function and started being able to actually respond to questions better. In the beginning he couldn't even close his hands -- his hands were in a fixed position, an opened fixed position because they were basically frozen -- and so after a while he was able to actually close his hand and make a complete fist. So by the time EMS arrived on scene, they were actually able to get him to stand up and escort him off the bus and onto their ambulance actually without a stretcher, which is a really good sign.

CO: Do you know how he is now?

DB: To be honest with you, the information I have has been very limited. My understanding from what CTV has put on their website and such, is that he's in stable condition.

CO: Derek I know you say you don't want to feel like a hero, and you feel too much is being made of it -- but you did save his life.

DB: I think at the end of the day to be honest with you Carol, I did what any transit operator would have done being given the position that they were in. For myself this is something that I expect of myself and something that I know other operators would also do and given the opportunity at any given point in time.

CO: But you were not going to leave that man behind?

DB: No ma'am. That is unacceptable.

CO: Derek I think you're a hero. And I thank you for being there and what you did. Thank you.

DB: Thank you. I really appreciate that. I'm very grateful for that. Thank you so much.

CO: Bye bye.

DB: Bye.

NaD: Derek Bailey is a bus driver in Edmonton. He's being credited with saving the life of a man who was out in the cold on Sunday morning. We reached him in Edmonton.

[Music]

New insect found

Guest: Craig Wagnell

NaD: A new species of wildlife has been discovered on Vancouver Island. And it could be a survivor from the Ice Age. And if you're in a cave in B.C. I guess it could be on you right now. It's called the Haplocampa Wagnelli. Craig Wagnell discovered it. And he's co-authored a study about his finding in Subterranean Biology Magazine. We reached Craig Wagnell in Port Alberni, B.C.

CO: Craig I believe congratulations are in order here.

CRAIG WAGNELL: Thank you very much.

CO: What exactly is a Haplocampa Wagnelli?

CW: It's a cave dwelling insect.

CO: Aha.

CW: Being a dave dwelling insect, they are eyeless, and they have no pigment to them, and they live their entire life underground.

CO: Can you describe this little creature?

CW: The closest I could describe it -- to most people it would look like an earwig but probably a lot smaller. The sizes are roughly about half a centimetre of total length, and that includes the middle tail pieces and the antennas.

CO: And the most interesting thing about it is that it's just ghostly white, isn't it?

CW: Yeah that's because it is a cave dwelling insect. They call them troglobites. And again, they live their entire lives underground and never to see the light of day.

CO: Where did you discover this little fellow?

CW: Discovered it actually by accident. I was taking pictures of some rare ammonite for a friend, and while I was taking the pictures the little white fellow just ran in front of my picture. And when I went to go home and develop it, I then noticed it.

CO: He photo-bombed you.

CW: Exactly. He photo-bombed me. And so being a creature I had not seen before -- I just decided to post it online and to see if I was to get any comments come back which I did from another caving club. So I decided to investigate a little bit more about the insect, and found a fellow down in the States -- Lynn Ferguson out of North Carolina University who is the expert on cave dwelling insects -- and I sent him a picture. He was more than interested in me sending him samples down. He told me how to do it, and I thought I'd give it a go. Went back to the same spot -- did not see the insect there, but checked around over the next few months and I did finally find him. Got some samples sent to him. Lynn Ferguson down in the States said that there was a new species so we were both really excited.

CO: But this one might have been a survivor from the last Ice Age, right?

CW: That is what they're saying yeah -- they haven't confirmed that. What they said is, it could be a survivor from the last Ice Age. And if that was the case -- you know possibly sections of this area weren't covered in ice -- there are parts just outside the Port Alberni that have been proven not to be covered in ice, so the possibility is there. And also the other possibility is, somehow it traveled over in the ice sheet from Japan.

CO: And if this has been around for all those years -- how did it live under the ice sheet for thousands of years?

CW: We don't know about them. And this is what's interesting about it and I think there's a lot more to be found out.

CO: Your discovery has been written up in the Journal of Subterranean Biology. Alberto Sendra, the lead author on that, says it's an intriguing species and that this may have lived for all this time and they've never found a species like this so far north. So, quite a significant discovery.

CW: And it's the first one in over 50 years. 1933 was the last time they discovered any new species of Haplocampa which is really exciting.

CO: Speaking of cave dwellers, you are one -- right? You spend a lot of time in caves.

CW: Yeah I smell like a cave probably six days of the week. [Laughter]

CO: And now you have a cave dwelling insect named after you -- Haplocampa Wagnelli. What does that mean for you?

CW: It means a lot to me. Yeah I'm really excited. I have bats that live in my house and I have some cave dwelling insects that are named after me -- I mean what more could a caver ask for? My biggest thing is by exposing this little tiny creature, it might bring some awareness to you know some cave protection and cave management down the road.

CO: What does your family think of this little fellow being named after you?

CW: They adore it because having no children, mom's always wanting to say, 'well you know what are you going to do? How are we going to carry the family name? Seeing it is an unusual one.' I gave them an insect. [Laughter] And in fact it's not the prettiest child you have ever seen, but he is cute. Actually I do have little boys and little girls because they [inaudible].

CO: This an extraordinary discovery Craig. Well done. Payoff for all that time you spent in caves.

CW: 40 years.

CO: Take care.

CW: Thank you very much. Bye bye.

NaD: Craig Wagnell is a cave explorer. In his explorations he discovered a new species of insect. It's called the Haplocampa Wagnelli. We reached Mr. Wagnell in Port Alberni, B.C.

[Music]

James Ehnes

NaD: James Ehnes from Brandon, Manitoba, is renowned as one of the world's greatest violinists. And last night, he won a Grammy for best classical instrumental solo -- the second of his career. But when he won, Mr. Ehnes did not take the stage in a tux to accept his award. He was not in Los Angeles, clapping for Dolly Parton, or being baffled by the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Far from it. Marcy Markusa of Manitoba's "Information Radio" reached Mr. Ehnes at his home in Tampa, Florida, this morning. Here's part of their conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

MARCY MARKUSA: Where were you when you found out that you won?

JAMES EHNES: Actually I was watching the live stream on my phone in the parking lot of my grocery store. Really glamorous, right? [Laughter] I just came back from a trip to Spain, late, the night before. And there was just no way to get out to L.A. for the ceremony. I looked at trying to fly out there but it would have been kind of ridiculous. So I thought, well you know. I would have tried harder if I knew I was going to win. But the composer, Aaron, luckily he was able to be out there with his children and they had a pretty special day.

MARCY MARKUSA: How did you celebrate last night James Ehnes?

JAMES EHNES: [Chuckles] You know this is a little embarrassing but the jetlag got to me. I think I was asleep by about 10:30. But I did have a nice bottle of champagne before that. So yeah that was a little festive.

NaD: That's Grammy-winning violinist James Ehnes speaking to Marcy Markusa on Manitoba's "Information Radio."

[Music]

Part 2: Why this late Republican lawmaker ditched 'freedom fries' to oppose the Iraq war

Michael Wilson obit

Guest: Brian Mulroney

NaD: Michael Wilson left his mark. From the much-begrudged but budget-balancing GST, to North American Free Trade, the former Conservative Finance Minister helped shape the country we live in today. Michael Wilson died yesterday as a result of complications from cancer. He was 81. Outside of politics Mr. Wilson was a financier, a university president, and Canada's Ambassador to the United States. He was also one of the country's highest profile and strongest advocates for mental health. But Michael Wilson will be best remembered as Brian Mulroney's Finance Minister -- starting when they were elected in 1984. We reached former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney in Florida.

CO: Mr. Mulroney first of all my condolences for your loss.

BRIAN MULRONEY: Thank you. He was a great man.

CO: How are you remembering Michael Wilson today?

BM: Always with great affection and respect. And the enormous sense of loss for us personally, but for the country as well. He was an exceptional guy. As I've said in other circumstances, if a Prime Minister is lucky, and I mean really lucky, he gets to have a Michael Wilson in his cabinet.

CO: And he helped you steer, and your government, steer some extremely difficult files, didn't he? I remember the GST, but mostly the North American Free Trade Agreement. These were emotionally highly charged files. What is it that he brought to that?

BM: Well first of all you know just in a general way Carol, if you look at the economy of modern Canada today and where it has taken us -- it's the legacy of Michael Wilson. The Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement -- NAFTA -- tax reform, and the GST, the privatisations, this was all Michael Wilson's leadership and inspiration. So indeed because they were in many ways revolutionary. They provoked enormous resistance. And as you will remember, it wasn't a pretty picture trying to get them through parliament and then through the country. And yet look at it today -- 25 years later -- with the economy going very well and booming along. This is Michael Wilson's legacy.

CO: He had his fingerprints on all of those things, but at the same time he wasn't up front, was he? I mean he was there doing that work in the background. And it clearly mattered to him. But he didn't seek the limelight for his accomplishments.

BM: He was a very modest man, very kind, and thoughtful guy. And I once said to him, Michael you're not cut out for politics. And he'd say why? Well you're just too modest. [Chuckles] But he used to say -- when we were going through a lot of these fights -- he would say to the cabinet in his very soft voice, he would say just remember we're not doing this for easy headlines in ten days -- we're doing this for a better Canada in 10 years. And the implication was of course that we're going to have to take a lot of pain and abuse and unpopularity to force this stuff through because if we believe it's in Canada's long term interests, we've got to suffer in silence on this one. And that's what we did.

CO: But I wonder why he did it. I mean he was successful in the private sector. He could have made a lot of money over all those years if he just worked in banking -- he return to that. But he was very successful in the private sector. Why did he want to run? Why did he want to be in public life?

BM: Well he always felt that you know being in Parliament and being in cabinet was the best way to shape the future of Canada. You could make a lot of money in the private sector, but you're pretty well limited to that. And he had money. He made money. And then after politics, he made more. But you know look what he did for example after politics. He became ambassador from Canada to the United States at a very crucial time in our history -- the worst collapse of the financial system in 60 years. He took over the chairmanship for the Canadian Mental Health Association when his son committed suicide -- his beautiful son. And then by God, he became Chancellor of the University of Toronto because of his interest in education and his love for U of T. And so this was a renaissance man. I think he was an athlete. And as you know Mila used to say he was better looking than Clark Kent. [Chuckles] He was such a gentleman and he was a fun guy too. He was a perfect gentleman and a renaissance man. And that's why he did what he did for Canada.

CO: You mentioned 'modest' earlier -- I mean he was private, wasn't he? I mean he was reserved. So what compelled him to speak so publicly about something that must have been deeply painful which was, as you mentioned, his son's suicide?

BM: Well it's because I think Michael realized -- I remember being with them at his son's funeral -- and what he said to me that day, at the end of the day, at the end of the funeral, you know Brian I'm going to try and use this to make things better for some other people. And he had not thought his way through it, but he wound up as chairman of the association of mental health (Mental Health Commission of Canada) -- where he did a fabulous job. I mean people will say quite seriously that they think -- and with good reason some of them -- they think that Michael Wilson's work on behalf of mental health in Canada, which was historic, is of more durable value than what he did while he was Minister of Finance.

CO: Is there anything in particular, any moment, of your time with Michael Wilson that you're thinking about today -- some anecdote -- a moment?

BM: I'm just thinking of Michael -- watching him, as I did for nine years, across the cabinet table and listening to him. He was a man of serenity. He was thoughtful and generous in his comments. He was loyal and supportive of his cabinet colleagues and Members of Parliament in the House of Commons. He never backed away from assuming responsibility when we got in trouble which was fairly often as you'll remember. He was always the first one up there defending the government. He was just a special man who made a very special contribution to the country he loved.

CO: Mr. Mulroney I really appreciate you talking about your friend with us. Thank you.

BM: Thank you.

NaD: Brian Mulroney was Canada's Prime Minister from 1984 to 1993. Michael Wilson served as his Finance Minister. We reached Mr. Mulroney in Florida. As Mr. Mulroney mentioned, Mr. Wilson's efforts to raise public awareness about mental health were inspired by the 1995 death of his son Cameron. Michael Wilson spoke about his son in an interview with the CBC four years later.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL WILSON: Cameron had said to us that don't tell anybody where I am or why I'm here because if you do that I will be labeled for the rest of my life. And he was worried about this whole question of stigma surrounding mental illness. And he said I'll probably never get another job again. But at his funeral there were people who came down from Ottawa -- people who he had gone to school with here -- who came and said, you know I really wish I had known that Cameron was ill and why he was ill because I think I might have been able to help him. Let's not forget that 30-40 years ago, you didn't talk about cancer. Cancer was called ca. You didn't call it cancer. But that's changed. It's a mysterious illness in that you know that there's something wrong but it's sometimes very hard to get to the bottom of it -- to do the the diagnosis and the balance of treatment with the medication. They never got it right with Cameron. And in some cases they are able to find that right balance but it's trial and error. You know we knew something was going wrong with Cameron because of the way he was behaving and we knew we had to get some help. But in the early stages we weren't sure -- is this just an angry young man who just lost a job? So you have all these puzzling thoughts and not a lot of places to turn.

NaD: That was former Finance Minister, Ambassador to the United States, and mental health advocate Michael Wilson speaking to the CBC in 1999. Michael Wilson died yesterday as a result of complications from cancer. He was 81.

[Music]

Oh deer

NaD: A small herd of deer took a tour of an Ontario town this weekend -- and ended up in a pub. They started their day by smashing through the window of an Oshawa MPP's office. When police arrived, most of the deer ran off. But one decided it was time to hit the bar. Dino Iezzi, owner of the Atria Bar and Grill, spoke with CBC Toronto about getting an unexpected call from his bartender.

SOUNDCLIP

DINO IEZZI: And then she goes, hey Dino you have got to do me a favour? I go, what? She goes you have got to call your mom -- she's barricaded in the kitchen because there's a deer that broke through the window. And then they both kind of scattered -- my mom and Michelle the bartender. So I guess the deer kind of was running through the bar. You know what I mean? Trampling everything. I don't know -- they were saying it was a big deer. But anyway, so he ended up going on the stage. We have a stage there at the Atria -- and he kind of just was jumping around the stage and then he was trying to jump through into the doorway to the kitchen. Anyway. So then I guess my mom and Michelle -- they were both kind of freaking out and didn't know what to do. So I guess Michelle stayed behind in the bar, and then for some reason my mom was going to try to scare the deer off. But then I guess she got a little freaked out so she kind of ran into the kitchen. Now the door is like one of those doors that push to get through -- and it's not a plunger system so it's really hard to open and close. Right. So I guess the deer has seen her and he was trying to get through the door as well -- to the kitchen. The next thing you know Michelle called police I think -- and you know one thing led to another and you know they all showed up and then the deer just kind of stood there right on stage for four or five hours.

NaD: That was bar owner Dino Iezzi speaking with CBC Toronto. The deer stayed on stage until the Ministry of Natural Resources arrived. The deer was then tranquilized and taken to a local wildlife centre, where it will stay until it can be released.

[Music]

Walter Jones obit

Guest: John Garamendi

CO: The moment Walter Jones is probably best remembered for is perhaps the one that least represents what he later came to stand for. You might recall the Republican Congressman as one of the creative minds behind "freedom fries." When France opposed the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, Mr. Jones took umbrage -- and subsequently helped get the French fries served in the House of Representatives cafeteria renamed to "freedom fries." Here is Walter Jones, who represented a district with a military base, explaining to Russia Today how "freedom fries" came to be.

SOUNDCLIP

WALTER JONES: A young man that owned a restaurant called Cubbie's -- when America went into Iraq he started thinking about how can I honour the Marines that are being deployed over into Iraq? He thought to honour the Marines "freedom fries" would be the proper thing to do. Well he wrote me several letters and I got thinking well I don't know-- I'm not sure if this is such a good idea. But then my Chief of Staff Glen Downs -- I went to Glen, I said Glen what can I do? I want to be responsive to a constituent but I'm not going to put a bill in -- I'm not going to do anything like that. And Glen said, well why don't you write Chairman Bob Ney who has oversight of the restaurants on the House side. He said he'll probably do nothing with it. Well a week later Bob Ney thinks it is a great idea so we do a press conference. And all these press people from around the world -- they sent people to take these pictures of Bob Ney and Walter Jones and "freedom fries."

NaD: Congressman Walter Jones speaking in 2011 to the Russian news agency RT. Later, the Republican from North Carolina came to regret his support for the invasion in Iraq. He became one of the war's harshest critics. And he wrote thousands of letters to the families of U.S. soldiers who died overseas. Walter Jones died yesterday on his 76th birthday, after falling and breaking a hip. Congressman John Garamendi was across the aisle from Congressman Jones. But they became friends and drafted a bill together. We reached Democrat John Garamendi in Washington, D.C.

CO: Mr. Garamendi first of all I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

JOHN GARAMENDI: Well Walter Jones is indeed a friend. He is not only a friend of mine but he's a friend to the men and women that serve this nation in the military. I don't know anybody on the Armed Service Committee that cared so deeply about their well-being both in peace and war.

CO: Just for people who might not remember or maybe Canadians as well that he was quite famous when he had the cafeteria rename French fries to be "freedom fries." And french toast to be "freedom toast." Because he supported, so strenuously, the invasion in Iraq -- and the war in Iraq. What changed him? Was there something in particular that made him think differently about that war?

JG: During the course of the war Walter Jones represented one of the major military bases here in the United States. And like many Americans he was proud to see the military march off to war. And then his men and women came back seriously injured, either mentally or physically or in a coffin. He realized that this war was having an extraordinary impact on the people that he personally represented in his district -- on the families, and on the men and women. And he began to question -- what it was that we were trying to accomplish, specifically in Iraq and also in Afghanistan -- and became increasingly concerned that the voice of the representatives -- the people of the United States, members of Congress, and the Senate, had given up -- forfeited -- their constitutional obligation to appropriate, to question, and ultimately to allow for a war to even exist; in other words, the War Powers Act and the Constitutional authority to wage war. And so he and I began working on this seven or eight years ago -- and each year he became more and more concerned as the war continued, as the injuries went on, and as lives and families were disrupted.

CO: He paid a price for that, didn't he? Within the Republican Party. I mean you're speaking as a Democrat and you had much support for your position, but not with the Republicans. And he did it quite actively, didn't he? He said that there was a special place in hell for (Richard) Dick Cheney for his role in it. He saw this as being something that was quite evil what had happened to all these families. What effect did that have on his standing within the Republican Party?

JG: Walter was essentially ostracized from the Republican Party. He was continually challenged in primaries and on the Armed Services Committee where he had the most seniority next to the chairman. He was essentially ostracized. He was set aside. He was routinely ignored. And (he) withstood that personal affront in a very courageous and determined way. He knew that in his mind he was right. But he stood bravely, and he teamed up with those of us -- including more than a couple of Republicans to try to re-establish the power of Congress, to take back the power of Congress, to determine whether we should or should not be waging a war.

CO: At the same time -- I mean he was a social conservative. He was a leader opponent of abortion. He was against same sex marriage. He was against gays serving in the military. It seems like an unlikely ally for a democrat. What's the connection you had with him?

JG: Walter was a person of a very clear conscience of who he was and what he thought was right. And he wasn't ambivalent about it. And while we disagreed on all of those social issues -- he nonetheless was a person of character. And so okay we disagree on abortion and gay rights, but that disagreement didn't mean he was a bad person -- he was in fact a very good person.

CO: He had -- as I understand he cared so much about those soldiers who had been lost, and their families, that he had photos of them. Many of them outside his office. He wrote to every single soldier's family who had died in both Afghanistan and Iraq. That meant 12,000 letters he wrote to families. What was he like personally?

JG: Well first of all Walter Jones was a man who had a very deep personal concern about people generally -- and certainly about the soldiers. I think he also was a person that regretted his earlier decisions about the appropriateness of the Iraq war. I think he was more comfortable with Afghanistan resolutions and the Afghanistan war, but the Iraq war he knew was instigated on lies and various purposes by the Bush administration. And I think he regretted that to a point of personal anguish about what he had done with his vote. And then as the soldiers returned in coffins or in wheelchairs or with mental issues of all kinds, he took it very very personally.

CO: Mr. Garamendi I really appreciate you calling us about Walter Jones. Thank you.

JG: Well I miss a comrade. And he's gone and we are worse off with that.

CO: Thank you so much.

JG: You got it. Bye bye.

NaD: Democratic Congressman John Garamendi in Washington, D.C. He was a friend and colleague of Republican Walter Jones, who died yesterday on his 76th birthday. You can find more on that story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Alan Kurdi

NaD: In 2015, one photograph stunned and horrified the world. The body of a small Syrian boy on a Turkish beach. The body of three-year-old Alan Kurdi. And now, a rescue ship named after him will save other refugees making that harrowing journey across the Mediterranean Sea. Yesterday the German non-profit Sea-Eye christened its rescue ship "Alan Kurdi." His aunt Tima Kurdi was in Mallorca, Spain for the naming. She lives in Vancouver, and in 2015 she was trying to bring Alan's family to Canada. She spoke with CBC Vancouver about the ceremony this afternoon.

SOUNDCLIP

TIMA KURDI: To be honest it was very hard for me to describe in words or tell you exactly how was it. But my brother he almost lost faith. He was sitting beside the ship and cried. And he was just thinking. He said I'm just remembering the tragedy of my family and he started crying and remembering one-by-one, they slipped from my hand. And you know it was very very emotional. Lots of people were crying. And he couldn't talk. But to be honest sometime he said it's worth the pain to be here at this ceremony and I'm so happy to give the ship the name of my son because my son needs to be a permanent reminder in people's heart and mind because there is other people who continue to suffer and all of us are not doing enough to save them. That ship is going to leave on Wednesday morning -- the shore -- and will have started the first rescue ship. Like even talking about it now, Alan is going to save life Wednesday. You know it's so painful bringing the memory back to 2015 --that day. But for us also -- I don't know how to describe the meaning, the feeling, of it. But it is very nice to see that ship, Alan ship, is rescuing people.

NaD: That was Tima Kurdi, the aunt of Alan Kurdi, speaking with CBC Vancouver this afternoon.

[Music]

Part 3: S.N.C. Lavalin: Housefather

S.N.C. Lavalin: Housefather

Guest: Anthony Housefather

NaD: The Ethics Commission is investigating allegations that the Prime Minister's staff meddled in the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin. And Justin Trudeau insists that's fine with him. The Prime Minister spoke to reporters in Vancouver this morning. Here's some of what Mr. Trudeau had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU: We welcome the Ethics Commissioner's investigation. This is an issue that has been much talked about over the past few days and I think it's extremely important that Canadians can continue to have confidence in our system.

REPORTER: You have previously said that no one from your office directed the former attorney general to intervene, but what about anybody from the Privy Council including the clerk?

PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU: I have met with Minister Wilson-Raybould a couple of times already since arriving in B.C. yesterday -- we spoke about our shared goals for our country and for this government. She confirmed for me a conversation we had this fall where I told her directly that any decisions on matters involving the Director of Public Prosecutions were hers alone. I respect her view that due to privilege she cannot comment or add on matters recently before the media. And I also highlight that were bound by cabinet confidentiality. In our system of government of course her presence in cabinet should actually speak for itself.

NaD: Prime Minister Trudeau speaking to reporters in Vancouver. On Wednesday Parliament's Justice Committee will consider an opposition request that they launch their own investigation into the allegations of meddling by the Prime Minister's office. Anthony Housefather is the Liberal who chairs that committee. He's in Montreal.

CO: Mr. Housefather we just heard the prime minister. He's saying he welcomes the ethics commissioner's investigation. He is confident of the system. He is looking to be open to whatever is necessary. Does that satisfy you or do you think there's a place for your committee to investigate this?

ANTHONY HOUSEFATHER: Well I think the first question is what the Ethics Commissioner is investigating versus what the Justice Committee would investigate. As I've said from the beginning, a partisan House of Commons committee investigating matters is inherently partisan. And there are sometimes better placed vehicles to do such investigations. This wouldn't be the normal work of our committee. However, that being said, my understanding is the ethics commissioner will be investigating a slightly different question than the one being posed to the Justice Committee. So I'm open to hearing from my colleagues in all parties. I'm certainly at this point not saying no. I'm reflecting and listening to all views.

CO: You say that this is partisan and that's one of the reasons why it's best left to the ethics commissioner. Here's what one of your fellow Liberals had to say -- Wayne Long from New Brunswick -- he says when I read the allegations of attempted political interference in a criminal prosecution on the part of officials within our government in The Globe and Mail I was extremely troubled. And he goes on to say how he believes there has to be some way to clear the air -- to explain -- to be transparent. So this is not a partisan issue. This is coming from people in your own party.

AH: No I didn't say that at all. And I congratulate Mr. Wayne Long. He spoke to me about his views and I told him I had no problem with him coming forward with his statement. Again I haven't decided whether the Justice Committee should or should not study this matter -- I'm listening to all sides -- I see pros and cons.

CO: Do you think that the solicitor client privilege should be waived so that Minister Wilson-Raybould can speak to your committee if you choose to have such a hearing?

AH: I think that there's issues related to the prosecution of SNC-Lavalin that Minister Lametti will have to look at it...

CO: I'm not talking about Lametti. I'm talking about Minister-Wilson-Raybould...

AH: David Lametti been tasked by the prime minister to determine whether or not he recommends that solicitor client privilege be waived. And so I think he needs to look at that from the perspective of the prosecution of SNC-Lavalin and determine whether it needs to be waived. However what I would say, and I said before, is that the very narrow question of whether or not the line was violated is in my view not privileged information and in fact it's not privileged because Mr. Lametti has answered it himself.

CO: What are you saying?

AH: I'm saying that in order for anyone to answer that very specific question of whether or not the line has been crossed -- I believe that Minister Wilson-Raybould could answer that one question without violating privilege because Mr. Lametti has answered it.

CO: So would you like to hear her answer that question?

AH: I think that it would definitely reassure lots of Canadians out there that nothing happened. And so certainly I would love for there to be a way for Minister Wilson-Raybould to answer the question. I assume that based on the fact that the prime minister said that she's still in cabinet, that she didn't resign at the time, that no line was violated, and that this is all hearsay that's being extrapolated into a story. But of course it would be more reassuring for most Canadians if they would hear it directly from her lips.

CO: So why not strike this committee hearing and have her answer that question from her own lips?

AH: Again, I haven't said no to the committee hearing. And the question of whether or not Minister Wilson-Raybould needs to be before our committee to say that -- that's a different question. She could say it anytime, right. She could say it in front of a camera in Vancouver today.

CO: Can you appreciate how this is not exactly satisfying for Canadians? I'm not talking about the partisan part of it -- those who don't believe the prime minister. Just at what point are you going to be more concerned with how Canadians can be satisfied that this did not happen?

AH: And I agree. And if somehow my committee can be a role for Canadians to be satisfied that this cannot happen, that's great. But both opposition parties started asking us to investigate the issue in an inherently partisan way. And they may well use the meetings of the committee to try to do that. Partisan people investigating partisan people is not necessarily the best way to do things, but I also acknowledge that in some cases there may be no other way. I'm open to that, and I have not decided where I'm going to stand on Wednesday.

CO: But if you decide that this is too fraught with partisan politics that you don't think this would be anything more than a kind of showmanship at this kind of a hearing, then where do we go? Where do we go as Canadians to get answers here?

AH: It's very frustrating because I mean I think our committee has accomplished a lot of great things. People look at Question Period and they see the partisanship on both sides. Everybody screaming at each other. And that's not normally how committees function. The Justice Committee has done a lot of great things together. We did a study that brought back the court challenges program. We advance the bill on genetic discrimination through the house even though it didn't have government support. We just put forward a great study on human trafficking. We do a lot of good...

CO: All good. But let's get back to the issue at hand. Because what we're dealing with here-- allegations of attempted political interference in a criminal prosecution on the part of officials within the Prime Minister's office. Very serious allegations. How are we going to find out what happened?

AH: Again, the question of how we're going to find out what happened is a great question. I think that these actors involved have to come forward and speak. Again, the prime minister has denied it. Nobody has put themselves on the record to the contrary, right. These are unnamed sources in that story making allegations.

CO: I agree. But how do you clear the air?

AH: How do you clear the air against an anonymous accusation? You say no it didn't happen. Well I don't believe you it didn't happen. Somebody said it happened. Well you need to put both sides there in order to actually know what really happened. And so denials often aren't satisfactory but they may be the only thing that you can get. That doesn't mean though that I don't fully understand that Canadians expect answers. And if my committee can be helpful in providing answers without running into a situation where it becomes a partisan sideshow I'm very open to it.

CO: If you don't do it, who will?

AH: Well that's the big question for me, right. The ethics commissioner has now announced an investigation. But there is a role for Parliament to examine this and if the Justice Committee doesn't do it is there somebody better placed to do it within Parliament? That I don't think. So I am open to this. No pressure has been put upon me by anyone from the prime minister's office on not to do it. And if I think that it would be helpful, and my colleagues on the Liberal side think it would be helpful, then we may proceed. But at this point we have not met yet, and I don't know what's going to happen.

CO: Just finally, do you doubt the allegations in this story? You personally.

AH: Yes absolutely. I don't doubt that sources may have come up with the allegations -- but do I doubt that anyone in the prime minister's office was foolish enough to have crossed the line with the attorney general? Yes.

CO: All right. Well we will see if somebody can get some answers for us and confirm or not confirm what you just said. Mr. Housefather thank you.

AH: Always a pleasure. Thank you so much Carol.

NaD: Anthony Housefather is the Liberal chair of the House of Commons Justice Committee. We've reached him in Montreal.

[Music]

Iranian Revolution

NaD: Today, hundreds of thousands of people marched in the streets of Iran to mark the 40th anniversary of the Iranian Revolution. On February 11, 1979, after months of protests and 40 hours of continuous street battles -- Iran's army declared it would obey the will of the people. Ayatollah Khomeini became the country's new leader and declared Iran an Islamic Republic. The provisional Prime Minister of the new republic was Mehdi Bazargan. His assistant was Ibrahim Yasidi. Barbara Frum spoke with Ibrahim Yasidi on February 12th, 1979.

SOUNDCLIP

BARBARA FRUM: Hello Dr. Yazdi.

IBRAHIM YASIDI: Yes Barbara.

BF: Is this the victory you've been waiting for?

IY: Not yet.

BF: Not yet.

IY: This is the first step.

BF: What is next? What do you still hope to achieve?

IY: Establishment of Islamic Republic. This is the provisional government. We are just beginning the transitional phase of our struggle. After the establishment of the provisional government, then we will run a referendum concerning the political system. And then the popularly elected constituent assembly will ratify the constitution. And then another election based on the new constitution.

BF: We've spoken to someone earlier tonight -- Dr. Yasidi who is fearful of the crowd in the street still -- that perhaps you are not quite as in control as you are suggesting to us. That these people may be more radical than you would like them to be.

IY: Well I'm worried because the whole nation is backing us. So what if a few people they have arm and they don't like us -- that's all right.

NaD: That was Ibrahim Yasidi, assistant to the provisional Prime Minister of the newly created Islamic Republic of Iran -- in February 1979. Today marks the 40th anniversary of the Iranian Revolution.

[Music]

Stepped up

NaD: Last night, the British singer Dua Lipa won the Grammy for Best New Artist. And as soon as she started talking, she made a remark that may have seemed innocuous, out of context.

SOUNDCLIP

DUA LIPA: Thank you so much. I guess...Oh my god I don't even where to begin. I guess where I want to begin is by saying how honoured I am to be nominated alongside so many incredible female artists this year because I guess this year we've really stepped up.

NaD: That didn't necessarily sound sarcastic. But it was. And it was directed at Neil Portnow -- the outgoing president of the Recording Academy. Last year, after women won very few Grammys, Mr. Portnow apologized and promised to try harder. Just kidding: he said women should try harder. They just needed, in his words, to "step up." Hence Dua Lipa's sarcasm. As I said, Mr. Portnow is retiring. But it turns out his attitudes permeate the music industry. Researchers with USC's Annenberg Inclusion Initiative reviewed the Billboard year-end Hot 100 chart, and the Grammys, over seven years. They found that 87 percent of hit songs were written by men. That women have been nominated for Grammys for "album of the year" less than seven percent of the time. And that only 2 percent of producers are women. Lead author Dr. Stacey L. Smith wrote "The inescapable conclusion is that the major impediment confronting women is the very way the industry views their gender." So it turns out it's not about women stepping up. It's about the music industry taking steps to stop women from getting stepped on.

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February 11, 2019 Episode Transcript

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