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The AIH Transcript for January 23, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening, I'm Karen Gordon, sitting in for Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

KG: Tonight:

CO: Address for successor. Before thousands of supportive demonstrators, Venezuela's top opposition leader swears himself in as the country's new president — while the sitting president swears it's an attempted coup.

KG: The shadows of lots of doubts. Canada's Ambassador to China says a Huawei executive might just avoid extradition to the U.S. — but a former U.S. Ambassador to Ottawa says we can't predict what the President will do.

CO: The bitter end. In an essay for a medical journal, a Canadian palliative care doctor reflects on her complicated feelings about how she treated a patient who eventually took his own life.

KG: More like a pro- troll freak. Three years after the sad closure of the troll-doll museum in her apartment, a New York woman's brightly-coiffed subjects are given another chance to let their hair up in public.

CO: Egrets, she's had a few. But then again, she painted only one — and now, a Florida woman's portrait of a bird has somehow created a flock of online admirers, and imitators.

KG: And...chicken scoop for the soul. The newsreader on a new children's show is a poised poultry puppet named "Chickelyna" — host of a segment with a strangely familiar title: "As It Flappens".

KG: "As It Happens", the Wednesday edition. Radio that guesses imitation is the sincerest form of flappery.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Venezuela protest, gender-neutral French, “As It Flappens” creators

Venezuela protest

Guest: Ben Rowswell

SOUNDCLIP

[Sounds: Protestors in the streets, whistling and chanting]

KG: Some of the tens of thousands of people who crowded the streets of Venezuela's cities today to protest the presidency of Nicolas Maduro. In front of the crowd in the capital, Caracas, opposition leader Juan Guaido — who heads the country's National Assemby — declared himself interim president. Soon afterward, U.S. President Donald Trump recognized him as acting president, and so did Canada. President Maduro responded by labelling the move a coup attempt, and ordering American diplomats out of the country. Ben Rowswell was Canada's ambassador to Venezuela until July 2017, when the last wave of major protests was taking place in the country. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Mr. Rowswell, why do you think that Juan Guaido has decided to declare himself the interim president today?

BEN ROWSWELL: He has done so because there needs to be a leader of the government — at least an interim position — that enjoys the support of the people. And Nicolas Maduro manifestly does not enjoy the support of the Venezuelan population.

CO: What exactly has happened here? I mean Mr. Maduro is calling this an attempted coup. So what legitimacy does Juan Guaido have in declaring himself the interim president?

BR: So since the president's term expired January 10th without a legitimate presidential election, the last time that the people of Venezuela voted in a free and fair election for a political authority of any kind was the Legislative Assembly. And so that mandate is still very much active, and therefore, there is a popular mandate for that legislature. What's happened is the head of that legislature has now said I'm not only going to lead the legislature, but I’m going to lead the executive branch. And Canada has recognized that because there needs to be at least some kind of popular mandate behind the person at the head of the government for the very difficult work that needs to be done to restore stability and bring Venezuela back to democracy.

CO: But who is Juan Guaido? It seems to be he is very young, relatively unknown. How did he come to be leading this movement?

BR: He is quite young, and was not a significant figure when I was ambassador there, but has emerged as a candidate that could unify all of the factions of the opposition, and so Guaido, with his charisma, has been able to bring together these various groups. And the moment was just right for there to be some kind of outpouring of support for a single person that might come forward.

CO: We just heard a clip, just a sound of today's protests in the street. And I know you have seen a lot of that when you were there. I just wondered what your thoughts are as you watch these scenes in Venezuela and across the country?

BR: Yes, this is all very familiar, unfortunately. Venezuelans have a lot of experience protesting, and generally do so in quite a peaceful manner. But over the years, the response to those protests have become more and more forceful. I saw there was already four people killed yesterday, and 43 have been arrested already today. So they seem to be already starting into the very heavy repression.

CO: And when you were the ambassador there, Canada and you made numerous statements against the human rights abuses that you were witnessing at the hands of the Maduro government. Today, a very interesting twist: Global Affairs Canada says Canada will recognize Jaun Guaido as the interim president of Venezuela, which puts us in an unusual place of being in sort of foreign policy lockstep with Donald Trump, which is doesn't happen very often. Are we on the right side of history to make that decision?

BR: I think that the United States needs to be treated separately. The way to look at this is that Maduro has taken away the popular sovereignty of the people of Venezuela. They have the right to choose their own government. He has denied them that right. And so Canada's position is that popular sovereignty must be restored. This is why Canada has recognized the head of the National Assembly — the legislature — as the interim president. The United States has gone one step further, and has said that they would be prepared to use all means necessary to support a transition. I think that is wildly irresponsible. And it is fundamentally undemocratic because if you're interested in the right of the Venezuelans to choose their own government, having some foreign military force take that decision for them actually is the opposite of popular sovereignty.

CO: You mentioned the statements that the Trump administration has made in the past. They've said that Donald Trump mused whether or not he should just invade Venezuelan straighten things out. He was asked again whether the U.S. would use military action in Venezuela to support the ouster of President Maduro. His answer was we are not considering anything, but all options are on the table. If you could urge Donald Trump and the White House to do anything, what would you say to them?

BR: Just be quiet and let the Venezuelans speak for themselves. The Venezuelans are speaking for themselves by coming to the streets by the hundreds of thousands. They are showing that the government of Nicolas Maduro does not have support. They're showing that they want a change. But it is a change that they need to make themselves. And this story needs to be — and remain — about Venezuelans.

CO: How volatile is the situation right now?

BR: I would say it's highly volatile, and we should be appealing for calm. There have been four killed already. The Venezuelan armed forces had their rules of engagement changed by Maduro a few years ago to allow the use of lethal force at a much lower level of sort of trigger. And so there is a high potential for security for forces to take violent action against the crowds. And possibly also for some of the protesters to lose control. This is a country that's gone through serious economic deprivation, serious hunger, and increasingly serious repression. And so there's a lot of anger and potential for violence. And, of course, once violence sets in, no matter who's responsible for it, it starts to harden positions and makes it much more difficult for there to be a transition to any kind of democratic system afterwards.

CO: How likely is that given that Mr. Maduro is unlikely to back down? So far, what he has been doing is quite the opposite. So if he remains, if he refuses to recognize this shift, what then happens?

BR: So the hope is that the armed forces, which have throughout the history of Venezuela have shown a remarkable knack for self-preservation, will see which way the wind is shifting. What's unknown is who they would shift loyalties to. Obviously Juan Guaido — this man who's been declared interim president today — hopes that they'll be loyal to him. But they might theoretically be loyal to some military figure whatsoever. So it's a very high-risk game, and we should be insisting that there remain a civilian control of the military and that any political change that happens in Venezuela happens through peaceful and constitutional means, and not through the barrel of a gun.

CO: Mr. Rowswell, we'll be watching this closely. I appreciate that you would tell us about this today. Thank you.

BR: Thank you.

KG: Ben Rowswell is the former Canadian ambassador to Venezuela. He's now with the foreign policy think-tank Canadian International Council. He was in Toronto. You can find more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Acoustic guitar]

Gender-neutral French

Guest: Alexander Reid

KG: To non-French speakers, it might seem like an odd quirk. But putting a gender on nouns and adjectives is part of the DNA of the French language. A house is not "le maison" but "la maison." A "feminine" noun. And I am an "animatrice" -- not an "animateur." That integral linguistic gendered-ness is making life difficult for French-speaking non-binary people. In English, there's at least a "they-them" pronoun. In French, it's not so simple. Alexander Reid has been raising the issue. He's a transgender man, and vice-president of a trans support organization in Windsor, Ontario. That's where we reached him.

CO: Mr. Reid, when did you start to notice that your French speaking clients were uncomfortable speaking in their own native language?

ALEXANDER REID: I would say a few months ago, when I began peer mentoring at WE Trans Support. I noticed that with my French clients especially that they were feeling uncomfortable in their native language when seeking medical or government services. Despite being a bilingual country, I find that in Windsor or in Canada in general that people who speak French, due to the gendered nature of the language, really can't accommodate those of us who are transgender and not binary.

CO: Being in a bilingual country, you should be able to get services — government services — in the language of your choice. So what happens when your clients seek those services in French?

AR: Everyone who seeks services in French will be addressed either using masculine or feminine pronouns, masculine or feminine adjectives, etc. because the entire language is based upon two separate genders. So for a trans person — whether non-binary or not — if the person that they're speaking to registers them as one gender then that's what they will be referred to as. So not just for non-binary people, who would prefer to be not gendered at all. But, for example, if you are a trans woman who is seemingly more masculine-presenting, if someone registers you as a man rather than a woman in a public space, if they are speaking in French, they may refer to you using masculine pronouns are masculine adjectives, right? So it comes further into difficulty when the person doesn't want to be gendered at all. So in English, we have the they/them pronouns, right? That non-binary people can use to kind of genderless themselves. And that works very well in English because most of our words are not gendered anyways. But in French, for example, if you are using he or him in French, and you are speaking to someone who prefers to use they/them pronouns, they don't really have that option. Words such as il est patient, like if you want to say he is patient or she is patient, it changes the word to a feminine version.

CO: Right. But in English as you point out that this has been dealt with using the gender-neutral pronouns like they and them, but also finding other ways of using pronouns. Is there there no blend of il and elle that could work?

AR: So yes, there is one pronoun in specific that I've heard a few times in conversation, which iel, and that is a gender-neutral pronoun that could be used in French. However, due to the gendered nature of the language and really the culture that's founded in the French language, most French speaking people have either never heard of this, or are uncomfortable using it, or simply don't know how. Really the whole language would have to be un-gendered in order for it to work perfectly. And there really is no gender-neutral way to express adjectives in particular.

CO: Canada is not the only country that uses French. So what have you learned from other French speaking countries like France, for instance? How a trans people dealing with it? What's the discussion there?

AR: I have a few friends in France that I've met during my time there, and honestly, they expressed the same concern. So when it comes to gendered language, they find that even in France — where the main language is French — people don't know how to use the non-binary pronouns, or they're reluctant to do so because of their attachment to the culture.

CO: To suppor what you're saying, the French language watchdog in France — The Académie Française — says has called these efforts to make French gender-neutral… they're saying it's an aberration, and it puts the French language in mortal danger.

AR: Absolutely. So when people who are you know at the very top of the administration of the French language, who are saying you know this is not appropriate for our language, this defies our culture, it becomes really difficult to try and convince the general population to change their views as well.

CO: Why does it matter? I mean maybe just explain so people understand what effect this has not being able to have gender-neutral language when you're trans. What effect does it have on people?

AR: From my professional perspective, what comes into play here is the respect that you receive being acknowledged. It's called the gender euphoria. So kind of the opposite of gender dysphoria would mean gender euphoria is when someone calls you or refers to you using gendered language or non-gendered language that makes you feel at home in your body, that makes you feel comfortable with yourself. So for me, when I was younger and I was being referred to as she and her, I felt a sense of gender dysphoria. Where I was really uncomfortable, I didn't feel right with that language, and now that I am presenting a masculine and people refer to me as he and him and MR, it gives me a sense of gender euphoria. Really, it's human nature for us to feel validated or invalidated by other people's perception of us. So if it comes to someone who prefers to be gender-neutral, and they don't want to be referred to as a man or a woman because that's how their gender identity is reflected within themselves, being validated like that by using them pronouns in English really allows them to have that space where they can be themselves and they can feel gender euphoria. And I think really everyone deserves that opportunity.

CO: Very interesting. Mr. Reid, I appreciate you explaining all this to us. Thank you.

AR: No problem.

CO: Bye-bye.

KG: Alexander Reid is vice-president of the WE Trans Support in Windsor, Ontario. That's where we reached him.

[Music: Indie rock]

Jack Stoddart obit

KG: Jack Stoddart believed that Canadians should control Canadian stories. The former president of Stoddart Publishing died on January 17th in Rednersville, Ontario. He was 74. Mr. Stoddart was a staunch nationalist, and a publishing powerhouse. Writer Stevie Cameron once said in an interview that, quote, "[Canadian] books that were controversial or might create waves and lawsuits, he would go at with gusto." Unquote. Stoddart Publishing's parent company, General Publishing, declared bankruptcy in 2002, and was shut down. Back in 1995, the huge American bookstore chain Borders announced it was coming to Canada — prompting concerns from independent Canadian booksellers and publishers. Jack Stoddart spoke with former "As It Happens" host Michael Enright about why he wanted more protection for Canadian literature.

SOUNDCLIP

JACK STODDART: Superstores do have an effect that within a certain radius, they seriously undermine the independent retailer. So clearly the small bookstores have a concern that is not just a U.S.-oriented, but they have a concern on superstores.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: I remember talking to [the founder of Classics} years ago, and I said if I want to open a bookstore, what should I do? And he said, first of all, don't. You’d be out of your mind. But then he said find the biggest bookstore in the town, and open up across the street. Because book buying is a browsing thing; people go from store to store. And keep it alive that way.

JS: Well, the only other advice I would have added to his, and he lived by, was put as many books into that bookstore as you possibly could. I think too many bookstores today — and the chain stores are true of too — they reduce their inventory selection to a level where perhaps they're not as interesting a place to be as they could be.

ME: Well, the Americans, isn't it true that if Borders and Barnes and Noble come in, they will have to come in with Canadian partners on board? Doesn't that offer some protection?

JS: There are two sides to that. The Canadian partners may. It depends who and how those partners operate in this country. I would have to go to the analogy of bank Nova Scotia is a big investor Unitell, and AT&T has a small percentage. I doubt that anybody would suggest that a bank in Nova Scotia is running Unitell these days. I think AT&T probably is doing the day-to-day, and I think that goes for the investment in the industry. It depends who it is, what their market share is. I don't think frankly that the publishing community and most of the bookselling community they would like the Canadian provisions to be observed in a real sense. That what we want, In fact, in a cultural industry for that industry to be controlled by Canadians. There are lots of industries that doesn't matter in. But in culture, we believe it does.

KG: That was Jack Stoddart in conversation with former "As It Happens" host Michael Enright in November of 1995. The publisher died last week. He was 74.

[Music: Sombre]

“As It Flappens” creators

Guests: Lindsay and Justin Lee

KG: It may be the most exciting new show to hit the "squawk" radio circuit in a while. It's like nothing you've heard before. And also like something you're hearing right now. Because, as it happens, the new program is called "As it Flappens". And it's hosted by a real egghead — a chicken, in fact. Named Chickelyna. Here's a sneak "beak", if you will, from a recent interview concerning news that a scientist — a sheep named Miikshi — had launched a cosmic potato into space.

SOUNDCLIP

CHICKELYNA: This is Chickelyna, we're back to “As It Flappens”. With me on the line is Frank from West Mibukiville. Frank.

FRANK: Well, yesterday, we took turns looking through Lord Equine’s telescope at the cosmic potato. It was quite something you know seeing a potato all the way in outer space.

C: Hold the phone! A potato in space, what are you talking about?

F: Oh, you haven't heard? A sheep scientist sent a potato into orbit yesterday. For the life of me I can't remember her name. She is small, and wears glasses — looks rather shy.

C: Miikshi!

KG: Not a bad theme. "As it Flappens" is part of a new children's TV show, called Miikshi the Meek Sheep. The first episode went live on YouTube today. Husband-and-wife team Lindsay and Justin Lee are the humans behind Miikshi the Meek Sheep. We reached them in Whitby, Ontario.

CO: Lindsay and Justin, Hello.

JUSTIN LEE: Hello. Hi, Carol.

LINDSAY LEE: Hi, Carol.

CO: Ok Lindsay, we just heard this clip. Is it just a coincidence it sounds so much like a show called “As It Happens”?

LL: It is not a coincidence. I happen to be a huge fan of “As It Happens”. And Chickelyna the character is a journalist. And I thought because she's a chicken, she flaps her wings, so “As It Flappens” would be the title we came up with for her radio show. And because we love the theme song so much, and it's just so much fun, Justin and our other friend wrote a little Miikshi version of the theme song that sounds remarkably very close to the “As It Happens” theme, I hope.

JL: But not to similar.

LL: Yeah, not too similar.

CO: The thing is that now this host of this show, “As It Flappens” is a very chick, Chickelyna. And she's sitting on her little nest chair with her headphones on. Is she modeled on anyone in particular?

LL: She's actually modeled on a childhood toy of mine. When I was younger, I had a toy she might have been a duck, but I thought she was a chicken. And she had a big, round yellow head. And a big, pouty orange beak. And in my mind, she was kind of a brat — an abrasive character. So she was she was modeled on that. But yeah, she's quite an interesting character because she is she's quite loud and abrasive and rowdy, but she's also very, very good at her job. She’s a good journalist we think.

JL: And her broadcast voice, we might have asked our friend to effect a little bit of a Carol Off impression — just a bit.

CO: She is she is aggressive, isn't she? I mean she's holding animal feet to the fire, isn't she?

JL: We just thought maybe she should sound just a little bit like you, and then not too much.

LL: Which is not aggressive at all. We don’t associate that with you.

CO: Just when you have to be. Now Justin, the show is called Miikshi The Meek Sheep, so it’s principally about Miikshi, and is a character in it. So how does “As It Flappens” fit into Meekshi The Sheep?

JL: So “As It Flappens” is Chickelyna`s flagship radio show. It's very similar to “As It Happens” in their town — in their city. And Miikshi listens to the show dutifully as a good best friend would every day. Because, of course, Chickelyna’s on air on “As It Flappens” every single day, and Miikshi's always listening because that's what a good friend would do.

CO: But then this one clip we just played, there’s a dramatic event, isn't there: a potato in space that someone has put there. So what are we hearing in that episode?

JL: So that clip is actually the very beginning of the first episode of the series. And Miikshi, who is a brilliant but shy sheep scientist, has put a potato into orbit around the Earth. And this is quite a big deal because it's never been done before. And, of course, Chickelyna is just finding out about it. Usually she's a better journalist than this. But for some reason she didn't know this happened, and her caller did know. So she finds out about it. And what ends up transpiring is she goes and begs Miikshi for an interview. She wants to be the first person to interview the scientists that put the potato into space. Miikshi is mortified by this idea. She can't do public speaking. She's very, very shy. Unfortunately, what ends up happening is the potato loses orbit. And so around the same time that Miikshi agrees finally to do the interview, she tells Chickelyna I can't come because the potato is on a collision course with your radio station. And you know Chickelyna thinks that's a big excuse. And meanwhile, Miikshi is on the roof of the radio station trying to deflect the potato back into space.

CO: And spoiler alert about that collision course with the radio station, this is a TV series, right — Six parts?

JL: We self-produced the first five episodes. And actually the first one is up right now. People can preview it. We actually just put it up today.

CO: And Lindsay, where are you filming this?

LL: So we are filming it in the back of a pizza shop in Whitby, which we found because we were trying to find just you know a small space, but large enough that we could actually do some filming with our half scale puppets and our half scale sets. And rent in Toronto is just so expensive. So we managed to find this spot out in Whitby, which just so happens to be behind a pizza shop. So the entire time we were filming, there were pizza’s being made at the front, delivery people walking through, and while this potato was hurtling towards the city.

CO: Now, this is very exciting for us here. But I understand Chickelyna is available — that I can speak with her, is that correct?

LL: Yes, she is.

CO: Chickelyna, are you on the line?

C: Hi. Yes, I am.

CO: This is very exciting. We are big fans of you and your show, “As It Fappens”.

C: Oh, thank you so much. And let me just say I was just absolutely flattered to hear that CBC started its own show inspired by “As It Fappens” called “As It Happens”.

CO: Well, we'll never be as good as you. You know that.

C: Oh, go on.

CO: We will try our best.

C: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Well, I know you guys are real journalists. You don't allow guests to duck any questions. You don't allow foul language. You know if that if that kind of thing happens on the radio, it could be your swan song.

CO: Well, we're just horsing around here.

C: Exactly. See, I’m egging you on now.

CO: You can try to make an ass out of me, but it won't work.

C: I know. I know. Well, I guess I wouldn't mind it if you poached some of my puns. You know that's ok. Like I can be a little scrambled some times. You know you don't want to be too hard boiled about it. Birds in a feather and all that. Birds of a feather.

CO: Well, we could keep going like this if it's a pun competition. But you're an intrepid journalist, and you will eventually get your interview with Miikshi. I just know it.

C: Thank you, Carol. It means so much coming from you.

CO: Chickelyna, it's great to talk to you.

C: And you as well.

CO: Lindsay and Justin, I wish you great success with your “As It Flappens”. Well, I guess your Miikshi The Sheep and “As It Flappens”. You guys are great. It's so much fun. And Chickelyna, you’re a hoot.

C: Thank you so much.

JL: Thank you so much.

CO: All right guys, take care yourselves.

KG: Lindsay and Justin Lee are the creators of Miikshi the Meek Sheep — a new children's television series. It features a radio show called "As it Flappens", hosted by a chicken named Chickelyna — voiced by Melanie Leblanc. We reached the Lees in Whitby, Ontario. To view the clip and see some behind-the-scenes action shots of Miikshi, head to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Part two: China: former U.S. ambassador to Canada, troll museum

China: former U.S. ambassador to Canada

Guest: Bruce Heyman

KG: It sounded like the Canadian government was making a major shift in its messaging about the case of Meng Wanzhou. The Huawei executive has been detained in Vancouver, following an extradition request from the United States. That's drawn Canada into a diplomatic tit-for-tat that's seen 2 Canadians locked up in China, while a third has been sentenced to death. But the Canadian government had restricted itself to saying that Ms. Meng's case would be governed by the rule of law — until last night. That's when John McCallum, the Canadian Ambassador to China, invited Chinese-language media to a press conference in Markham, Ontario, and volunteered this.

JOHN MCCALLUM: In terms of Ms. Meng, I think she has quite good arguments on her side. One, political involvement by comments from Donald Trump in her case. Two, there's an extra-territorial aspect to her case. And three, there's the issue of Iran sanctions, which are involved in her case. And Canada does not sign on to these Iran sanctions. So I think she has some strong arguments that she can make before a judge, and then the judge will decide whether he thinks — he or she thinks — that she should be extradited or not.

KG: That was John McCallum, Canada's Ambassador to China. Bruce Heyman was the United States' Ambassador to Canada under Barack Obama. We reached him in Aspen, Colorado.

CO: Ambassador Heyman, we heard John McCallum, who doesn't seem to think much of the case against the CFO Meng Wanzhou. How is that going over in Washington?

BRUCE HEYMAN: Well I will say the following: our two countries — the United States and Canada — are based on a rule of law. And we have an extradition agreement, and an extradition treaty between our two countries. And then the process that occurs after the request for extradition is legal. It should never be political. And I think that, unfortunately, the president overstepped his bounds based on his lack of experience in political and legal matters that he began to use language that made this appear more political than it even is.

CO: Isn't that sort of what Ambassador McCallum is doing himself? He says in his comments that he's that he apologizes several times. He says people should ask Donald Trump why Ms. Meng has been arrested. He's hoping that she gets released. At some point, he even suggests that Mr. Trump should make some kind of a deal. So hasn't he politicized it as well?

BH: I think that the ambassador is recognizing the tough situation in which China has placed Canada in, and has put pressure by arresting and sentencing Canadians. And I think operating I think over the line. And I think it's a tough place for an ambassador to be. And that being said, from my perspective and my experiences with extraditions, that we need to make sure that this is based on a rule of law and follows a legal process. Otherwise, we become China. Because the Chinese think that this is political and we're just going to trade people or trade deals and do this. And we become them. And that's not who we are. We operate by rules of law. And I think anybody who enters into the discussion that it's something other than that complicates the matter.

CO: We have a very complicated relationship with the United States right now, and we're on top of that caught between China and the United States in this dispute. We're in a very difficult situation as many people are pointing out. Is that understood in Washington that when you hear Ambassador McCallum make comments like this it's out of a frustration with the White House?

BY: I think that the biggest challenge I think Canada faces right now is that there's so many other things that the president is doing to cause disruption within the United States that people within the United States are not spending as much time understanding the pressures that the president has put Canada in. Whether it's through the negotiation strategy that he took under with the USMCA, or whether it's his comments about the prime minister and the foreign minister at various times, or politicizing something that is on the basis of a legal agreement. And so yes, I totally recognize having been in Ottawa and representing the country and understanding Canada that the United States continues, and the president himself, continues to put Canada in a very tough spot. But unfortunately for Canada that the president has also shut down the U.S. government, he is acting in aberrant ways, telling thousands of lies according to The Washington Post, which is hard to get your arms around. But you know every day we're dealing with these challenges domestically. And I don't think it's getting the focus and understanding in Washington or in media circles of the pressures that Canada is under.

CO: At the same time, the situation is that we have people who have been locked up. And someone who's been sentenced to death — Canadians. This has been referred to as diplomatic hostage taking. So I mean in these remarks of the ambassador’s, he's very conciliatory toward China. How much more strongly should we be speaking to the Chinese government, and particularly President Xi?

BH: Well, I'll tell you what the United States should be doing right now in this regard. That while I've seen statements come out from the State Department and elsewhere in support of Canada, I think that we're not being bold enough. You know this type of treatment of Canadians is unacceptable. And any threat to Canada — either directly as a country or to Canadian citizens by anyone — in my view is a threat to the United States as your next door neighbor and your greatest ally and friend. And so the language that the U.S. should be using is this is crossing the line, China. You've crossed the line in your treatment of Canadians as a result of this legal extradition request that we have. And there need to be consequences. I'm not here to say what they are. But there need to be understood consequences that when you pick on your best friend and ally that the United States needs to be there and let the world know that that is not right, and they're going to be consequences for that.

CO: One of the suggestions that Ambassador McCallum has is that perhaps Washington can drop the extradition request, they can return Ms. Meng, and in exchange, we get our Canadians back. I mean what does that do to what you're saying about the importance of the rule of law?

BH: So from my perspective, and I can lean back to the set of circumstances that many Canadians may not remember, but I remember so distinctly. There was a Canadian resident — a Chinese national — living in Vancouver that was arrested and under extradition request by the United States. His nam was Su Bin. And Su Bin was in the process of stealing military plans and secrets from the United States to supply them to China. And then subsequently he was delivered off to the United States, and was convicted in the United States. This is the basis in which we operate. It has happened historically over and over. And what's happening here should be no different than that. Again, unfortunately, I think the president has complicated this.

CO: All right, we'll leave it there. Ambassador Heyman, thank you.

BH: Thank you very much.

JD: Bruce Heyman was the United States' Ambassador to Canada under Barack Obama. He's also the author of the upcoming book, "The Art of Diplomacy". We reached Ambassador Heyman in Aspen, Colorado.

[Music: Ambient]

Vegetative state arrest

KG: He was supposed to be caring for a woman who was in a vegetative state in a Phoenix nursing home. But today, police said a nurse at Hacienda Healthcare sexually assaulted the unnamed patient. Last month, the woman gave birth to a healthy baby. Staff at the facility didn't even know she was pregnant. Police tested the DNA of all the staff members at the nursing home. And Phoenix Police Chief Jeri Williams said those tests led them to the nurse.

SOUNDCLIP

JERI WILLIAMS: I stand here today to announce to the community that the hard work and dedication demonstrated by the members of this Phoenix Police Department has resulted in the arrest of the person whom we believe committed this unspeakable act, when he sexually assaulted one of our most vulnerable members of our community. From the minute we first became aware of this crime, we have worked virtually nonstop every day, every night, seven days a week, trying to solve and resolve this case. Through a combination of good old-fashioned police work, combing through evidence, talking to people, following up on information, combined with the marvels of DNA technology, we are able to identify and develop probable cause to arrest the suspect. He is 36 year old Nathan Sutherland. Sutherland is a licensed practical nurse, who was responsible for providing care to the victim during this time the sexual assault occurred. We owe this arrest to the victim. We owed this arrest of the newest member of our community: that innocent baby.

KG: That was Phoenix police chief Jeri Williams at a news conference today, announcing the arrest of a nurse who allegedly sexually assaulted a woman in a vegetative state who gave birth last month.

[Music: Ambient]

Troll museum

Guest: Reverend Jen,

KG: It was a timely reminder that trolls don't just create grief on your Twitter feed — they can create glee in your real life. Last week, after a long hiatus, a beloved New York institution was resurrected. The Troll Museum — a collection of troll dolls in the living room of a Manhattan tenement apartment — had once delighted visitors from around the world. But in 2016, its owner, Jen Miller — better known as Reverend Jen — was kicked out of that apartment. And the Troll Museum was no more. But last Thursday, a pop-up exhibit at Manhattan's Ace Hotel gave those brightly-coiffed trolls a second chance to bring joy to a troubled world. The exhibit closed Sunday, but now, Reverend Jen, is hoping to take the trolls on tour as a traveling exhibit. We reached her in New York.

CO: Reverend Jen, how did your trolls look in their temporary home?

REVEREND JEN: The trolls were smiling. Their hair looked fierce. And they had their outfits on. You know, they looked good.

CO: They're always smiling.

RJ: Yeah, that's true.

CO: There's not a frowning troll, is there?

RJ: No, except for Branch in the Dreamworks movie. He’s the only unhappy troll that I know of.

CO: So in this museum that is in the Ace Hotel, where you had the exhibit, what would people see? Was it like a regular museum? Did you have audio cassette machines where people have the tour?

RJ: Yes, it was very much like a normal museum, except I was behind the front desk. So I had binoculars where people could get a closer look at the trolls, and there were audio tours. Only the audio tours only played Led Zeppelin.

CO: Perfect.

RJ: That's all you need to know about the troll museum is the official soundtrack.

CO: Now, did you have any of your regulars from when you had the original troll museum, which was in your old apartment? I know that you had a lot of fans of that exhibit. Did they find you out in the hotel?

RJ: Yeah, well because of the New York Times piece, a lot of people found out that it was happening. And people came to the exhibition and said hey, I missed the old troll museum. I went there you know 12 years ago with a bunch of friends. Or other people that I worked with at the tenement museum said I used to love coming to your parties at the troll museum. And so there was this nice array of people who had never seen the toll collection before. And then people who were familiar with it, but missed it and we're happy to see it resurrected in this space.

CO: How did you come to have a museum of trolls in your apartment?

RJ: I started collecting tolls when I was a little kid. And then as a teenager, I just became even weirder. And you know my collection grew. And then in my 20s, I started an open mike on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. And people would bring me trolls as gifts at my show. Then I had so many trolls, and I had this front room of my little tenement apartment that I used as a painting studio. But I was mostly doing paintings of, you guessed it, trolls. And I lived across the street from the tenement museum, where people were paying to go on tours of an old tenement that looked very much like my own. And I thought well, I could have a museum too just like that one, but it would have trolls in it. So I put up a bunch of shelves, and put my trolls on it, and wrote press releases, and then it got listed in the press. I thought oh no, what am I doing? But people showed up in droves, really curious about the trolls. And I realized then just how many people were fans of trolls. I kind of thought I was alone. And suddenly I’d come back from a jog, and there is a family of five outside of my door curious about the trolls, you know? And it became this wacky neighbourhood institution.

CO: I know you had some rough times, and then you were evicted from that apartment in 2016. And I know that this has been a bit of a rough stretch for you. But what have you been doing with the trolls since? What happened to them when you left your apartment?

RJ: Well, the trolls have moved quite a bit. For a while they were in a musky storage space. And now they live in Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn. And I guess I'll figure out where they go next. But yeah, they've been in containers. And you know a lot of them have been on the shelf.

CO: And have you landed on your feet? Are you doing ok?

RJ: Yeah, I'm doing great, especially with this show. It has really been fun.

CO: I know that you said elsewhere that no one should buy a troll; a troll should come to you. And you found one curious one. There's a whole bunch of trolls I'd like to ask you about, but in interest of time, I want to ask you about a haunted troll that you got from Canada.

RJ: Oh, the haunted troll. Yeah, it came from Canada. I forgot that it came from Canada. Well yeah, so I generally don't buy troll on eBay because then I’d just go totally bankrupt. But off times, at work sometimes even, I might slack off and look at trolls on eBay. And this one time, I saw a thing that said haunted troll. This old lady had tried to give this little kid this troll, but the kid refused it, right. This is written by the child's father — purportedly this happened. I don't know if any of it's true or if this guy was just trying to get rid of a troll? But the little kid reluctantly finally took it, and then stuck it stick in its neck, and then their house became haunted. And things started happening like the water going off and on at various times, and the child acting strangely. So I was the only person that bid on it. And I think I bid like 99 cents or something. And they just sent it to me. And they sent with the stick in a coffin-like box. It just became one of my favorite shows because I love the story. And also it looks super creepy and haunted. So when I tell people it's the haunted troll, they recoil in horror. It's terrifying.

CO: Just finally, you said that people need a troll museum now. This is something that in 2019 you think the world needs. Why? What's going on now that you think is could be solved — or at least mitigated — with a troll museum?

RJ: I think because they're always smiling. You know they have their hands out. They're just grooving with the eternal now. And I think if more people were doing that grooving with the eternal now, maybe people would be less hostile toward one another, you know? Just sit down and comb a troll’s hair.

CO: Grooving with the eternal now. That's just wonderful words — advice to live by. Reverend Jaen, it's really fun to talk to you. Thank you so much.

RJ: And thank you for having me on your show.

CO: Bye.

RJ: And you grew up with the eternal now. And have a trollific day.

CO: Thank you.

KG: Jen Miller, better known as Reverend Jen, is hoping to take her troll museum on the road as a traveling exhibit. We reached her in New York. If you want to see the trolls, or just groove with the eternal now, go to our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Gary Sappier obit

KG: New Brunswick's Maliseet community has lost a beloved bluesman. 49-year-old Gary Sappier — an award-winning musician, a husband, and father of four — died in hospital yesterday. Friends told CBC Saint John Mr. Sappier had followed in the footsteps of his father, Gary Sappier Senior — a talented bassist and keyboard player. And he started following those footsteps early: as a teenager, Mr. Sappier got his first gigs at block parties on Tobique First Nation. And his very first album, "The Gary Sappier Experience", won him an East Coast Music Award nomination for Aboriginal Recording of the Year. He went on to perform for Canadian Forces personnel, as part of a Task Force Afghanistan Show Tour. He opened for headliners like Trooper, and Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show. And just last year, Gary Sappier performed at the Indigenous Games in French Guiana, as part of a cultural exchange between North and South American Indigenous groups. Speaking to CBC, one of Gary Sappier's friends said: "He did the blues, he did rock and roll — but deep in his heart he was a romantic. He sang the slow ones for himself — to let out his feelings."

[Music: Piano]

Part three: C.M.A.J palliative care doctor, egret painting

Soldier coin

KG: It's a fleeting, comforting moment between two Canadian soldiers, as they steel themselves to storm Juno Beach in France on D-Day. In a famous photograph, captured on grainy black-and-white film in 1944, one soldier pats the other on the back. Who, in turn, looks to his comrade in thanks for the gesture. That moment has now been memorialized in the Royal Canadian Mint's 2019 Proof Silver Dollar, to mark the 75th anniversary of D-Day. Not only that, but researchers working with the Mint have finally identified the soldier who glances back. He was Private George Herman Baker of Liverpool, Nova Scotia. Yesterday, Mr. Baker's daughter, Karen McLeod, was presented with one of the coins. And she told CBC News in Halifax how she felt when her father was identified.

SOUNDCLIP

KAREN MCLEOD: Totally and absolutely overwhelmed. Never entered my mind because we weren't ones to talk a lot about the war, and I had no idea there was any film at all. And just the odd one you'd see once in a while, right? And not only the discovery of the picture, a whole new discovery of my father.

REPORTER: I get the impression your father didn't talk about the war much?

KM: He didn't. He didn’t. I can only remember a couple times. When they had the fiftieth anniversary of D-Day, I remember him mentioning the landing, and how the soldiers had died, and it was awful. You had to walk over people, and you couldn't do anything to help them. And anybody who's been in the military would know about this. And then he had shrapnel — pieces of stuff — in his shoulder. And when I was a little kid — probably 7-8 years old — he's used to always get me to wash his back for him. You could feel that. And sometimes it would even fall out. Like pieces he’d pull out even then. And I was born seven years after he was out of the Army, so you know that was still in there after all those years — probably took it to the grave with him. I loved my father, so I have nothing that I could say about him probably. He was rough, and he wasn't what I would call… he's not a father of the day. I mean daddy wasn't changing diapers and holding you if you got a scratch. That was mama’s job, right? But he looked after us, he cared for us, we always had enough food to eat, and you know we felt loved.

KG: That was Karen McLeod, in Liverpool, Nova Scotia, talking about her father, Private George Herman Baker, who appears on the Mint's 2019 Proof Silver Dollar.

[Music: World music]

C.M.A.J. palliative care doctor

Guest: Susan MacDonald

KG: She has only given him a first name — Leo. And she doesn't say where in Canada he lives. But we do know he suffered the effects of a debilitating and incurable illness. And that he took his own life. Dr. Susan MacDonald was Leo's palliative-care doctor. She grappled with so many "what ifs" after his death that she wrote a powerful article for the Canadian Medical Association Journal, about what she might have done differently. Now, her article is contributing to the debate around what doctors should do in suggesting the option of medically assisted death. We reached Dr. Susan MacDonald in St. John's, Newfoundland.

CO: Dr. MacDonald, as you point out in your article, you say all my patients die. But what is it about Leo's story that seems to haunt you?

SUSAN MACDONALD: I think when I when I reflect back on it, it's the fact that his death wasn't the way it could have been. And when I say that what I mean is what I work worth my patients towards is having the kind of death as much as humanly possible that they want — so in the place that they want, with the medications that they approve of. And what happened to Leo was that he tried to create a situation for his own death, and then it was mismanaged. And that's what made me feel so badly about this.

CO: He was very ill, he was going to die, and was he in a great deal of pain?

SM: He was. He was in physical pain. He had a nerve pain, which is for many people we’re able to manage to get that under relatively good control. But for Leo, he was one of the very small percentage of people that whatever we tried really didn't work, and he had all sorts of horrible side effects from the medications. But he also had emotional pain and spiritual pain from what was happening to him — from the loss of control. He was an incredibly private an independent man. And having other people care for him and look after him was torturous to him.

CO: He was living at home?

SM: He was.

CO: And just his mother was with him?

SM: His mother had come in to look after him, yes.

CO: Did he ever talk to you about ending his life? Did you know that was something he may have been considering?

SM: No, and that's the thing at the end of the day that really bothers me. Oftentimes, I can pick that up. Often, you get a sense from people, the way they say things, or the tone of their voice, or they drop little hints here and there testing you out to see whether you're comfortable talking about the subject. And I am. And so with the average person I do ask very direct questions when I get those little signals, are you thinking about suicide? Have you ever thought maybe you need to end it all sooner? Are you wondering how we might help you with that? Those kinds of questions. But never with Leo, and I've done a lot of thinking about this. Why he didn't say anything? And I still don't have a firm conclusion either way. I do know that he really liked me, and I worry that maybe he in some ways didn't want to disappoint me or make as if that I had failed in some way — that I couldn't help him.

CO: But I mean, at the same time, he didn't bring it up with you, and he did choose when he was going to end his life, right? So how different would it have been if he had sought a medically-assisted death?

SM: He would have been able to decide when and where that would happen. He would've decided who was in the room with him and who was not. He would have decided how he wanted to look, what he wanted to be dressed in, the bed he wanted to lay in, and he lost all that by an attempted suicide.

CO: And so instead, what was his death like do you think?

SM: I believe that he was unconscious, but his death occurred in a really busy emergency room. He was on a gurney. He would have been stripped naked. There would have been IV's put into him. There'd be all sorts of health care personnel in the emergency room, working furiously to try and save his life, until the realization that he was in fact a terminally ill cancer patient, and the family were able to say please stop. And I just think of he was such an intensely private man. And just how awful that would have been if he had known about it, and even if he doesn't know about it, I do.

CO: Are their restrictions on your ability to raise the subject if no one's making those kinds of hints? The person — your patient — is not kind of feeling you out about that. Can you raise it yourself if that's not the case?

SM: in every province, except Quebec. In everywhere else in Canada, your duty is to respond to a request, not to initiate the discussion, not to bring it up. It feels like there's unwritten rules around this. I was the co-writer of our local provincial college policy on this. We dealt with the policy with the perspective of looking at somebody who has made a request, and how does a physician respond? But we haven't I think across Canada we haven't looked at should we or should we not be bringing the subject up to our patients? And if we do do that, what kind of harm could we potentially cause? Because not everybody is going to want to have that option put out there. In fact, I have raised this on occasion a couple of times since Leo with patients who I thought would be interested to know, and I was surprised at the reactions that I got.

CO: There is a danger is there not of putting an idea in someone's head that wasn't there before? And people start thinking well maybe that's what they want me to do, and then it becomes a slope.

SM: Well, and that's part of the concern that I have is that as a physician, regardless of the excellent quality of a therapeutic relationship I may have with the patient, you know there's still those power things that are going on. And does what I say or what I suggest have more weight because it's me who suggested it? I don't know, but I worry about that.

CO: What do you want people to take away from you publishing the story about Leo? What do you want to come of that?

SM: Physicians have a long tradition of writing about challenging cases. And partly to get colleagues opinions, maybe to learn something if a colleague writes in and said oh, I had the same story happen to me, this is what I did, it worked. But I was also hoping that this may spark a bit of conversation around what should we and should we not be saying to our patients.

CO: I'm sure that people listening to this who are making decisions themselves. This is very useful for us to know that you're weighing these kinds of things as a doctor. And Dr. MacDonald, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SM: Thank you very much Carol for calling.

KG: Dr. Susan MacDonald is a palliative care doctor. She is also an associate professor of medicine and family medicine at Memorial University. She's just published an article in the Canadian Medical Association Journal, called "Leo Died The Other Day." We reached Dr. MacDonald in St. John's.

[Music: Ambient]

Jordin Tootoo

KG: It was standing room only in Sheshatshiu, Labrador, yesterday. The Innu community its hosting a suicide prevention conference this week, and the guest speaker is an Inuk hockey superstar. Jordin Tootoo played for the Chicago Blackhawks, the Nashville Predators, the Detroit Red Wings, and the New Jersey Devils. He grew up in Rankin Inlet, with his brother Terence, and his sister Corrine. Their parents were alcoholics. And Jordin shared some of that story — and its tragic consequences within the community.

SOUNDCLIP

JORDIN TOOTOO: I'm sure a lot of you can relate where what happens behind closed doors stays behind closed doors. And that was my family. Everyone on the outside thought that the Tootoo family was this upper-class family, who had it all. Little did they know we were faced with a lot of challenges as kids. My sister, my brother, and I, we kind of grew up ourselves because both our parents missed out a lot on a lot of milestones. And I didn't quite understand why at that age what was actually going on in the house. You know with the physical abuse, the mental abuse, because I was shielded from that. And it wasn't up until I was ten, eleven, twelve years old where you know the first time I see my sister and my brother get hit with belts, wooden Spoons, that I realized what is going on here. Being the youngest kid, I always thought I got away with a lot. You know I could do whatever I wanted. But it wasn't up until then where I realized that for all my antics, my brother and my sister took all the beatings because they didn't want me to feel that pain. And it was on August 19, 2002 where my whole world just came down crashing. And it was a day that it hit me right in my heart: the day that my brother was found. It was devastating. Being 19 years old and knowing pretty much my father figure has took his own life because my brother was pretty much the one that took me under his wing growing up as a young teen, and guiding me through life, and mentoring me on a daily basis. He was gone. And my brother left me a note, and it had three lines on it, and he said Jor, go all the way. Take care of the family. You are the man. Terrence. And I remember grabbing that note, and crumpling up. And actually I threw that note into my bedroom garbage because it never crossed my mind that those were the last words that he would have left me because I just I thought this was another day — just another regular day.

JD: That's former NHL hockey player Jordin Tootoo, speaking at a suicide prevention conference in Sheshatshiu, Labrador, yesterday. Thanks to the CBC's Jacob Barker for that tape.

[Music: Ambient]

Egret painting

Guest: Cindi Decker

KG: It was just a simple painting of an egret. The second thing Cindi Decker had ever painted in her life. But when a photo of her holding her bird painting was posted on Reddit, it suddenly became anything but simple. A man in Sweden painted a picture of Ms. Decker holding her painting. Then someone else painted a picture of him holding his painting of her holding her painting. And on it went from there — and on, and on. We reached the woman who started it all, Cindi Decker, in Vero Beach, Florida.

CO: Cindi, first of all, just describe this painting you made that started this whole thing?

CINDI DECKER: Well, it is an egret, but I had just gone to a painting class, and we have them you know all over the place. And went with a friend, and wanted to do a painting that I hoped that I could actually use in my house. So they sort of walk you through the steps. First, you know paint the blue, and leave some space for the bird, and they kind of teach you some techniques to paint. And that's pretty much it. So it's a egret I guess you could say maybe with a little too many feathers.

CO: So that's why people think it's a sawn. So you came home with this painting, and your son thought it was pretty good, didn't he?

CD: Yeah, he did. And you know so he was like Mom, you can sell this. And I'm like theoretically I paid 35 dollars for it. So I don't think so. But you know he kept saying It's so good, people would pay a hundred dollars. And I was like Matthew, I don't think so.

CO: What did he do to prove you wrong?

CD: Well, I left it on the counter, and he was like hold it up, Mom. And we’ll take a picture of this. And he does Snapchat with all his buddies, and I mean these kids I've known since they were in like first grade. So I thought that’s where he was just sending it to his friends, you know? They were all going to say Ms. Cindi, you did a great job. And instead I guess he posted it to Reddit. But I didn't know that at first. He came back and told me hey, you got 122 likes already just a few minutes later. And I was like you 122 friends on Snapchat? And that's when he told me it went to Reddit. And I was like I didn't even know what Reddit was really.

CO: It was on Reddit, and it took off, right? So what was the next thing that happened that was quite phenomenal?

CD: You know by the time I went to bed like around midnight, there was like 24,000 likes. That was phenomenal enough. And I thought that most people were super nice. You know, of course, you had some people who weren't nice or said that's just a paint-by-numbers class — it's a little more than that. But the next day, when my son got home from work, he had said Mom, there's a painter that painted you and the painting. So that I thought was great, you know? And then it just spiraled from there.

CO: Let's talk about that painting. What you're saying what you're saying is that somebody in Sweden — an artist there — was so inspired by you posing because we should say the photo wasn't just of your painting. It was of you holding your painting. And so he did a painting of you holding your painting, right?

CD: Correct, yes, yeah, that was it.

CO: And then what happened?

CD: Then I think it was a girl next. There was a guy that also did it. They would paint the picture of whoever painted it last, with their painting, with the guy from Sweden holding his painting, and then with me with my picture in the middle. SO it was like a picture in a picture in a picture. It was very interesting. There were people who had flowcharts going on. So for like four days, it was just it was kind of crazy.

CO: And so how many paintings last count are there of you somewhere in there with your egret?

CD: Oh, I think there was over 40. I think 42, last I counted.

CO: And there's sort of an organogram as you're describing it — these branches of the paintings that became paintings of paintings and paintings, and then paintings of a couple of paintings, and then paintings of those paintings, and it just kept going.

CD: Exactly. Exactly And it was a lot of fun. I mean somebody asked me if I could pick my favourite, and it's like no. I mean obviously the first one I think is the one that spiraled the whole movement. But I think they were all so different and so unique. And it was kind of fun stories behind. Like one of them stayed up all night. Even his wife wondered what he was doing all night. The other a guy you know sent me a little message saying he hadn’t painted in two years, and it inspired him, and so he was one of those in the little branch. So those are kind of nice things.

CO: What do you think inspired all those people to do those paintings?

CD: Honestly, I think it just became fun. Just something fun to do. I don't think that I necessarily inspired anything. I personally don't, even though people say you inspired me to paint. I don't know if it was so much me. I really give credit to the first artist who painted. You know I I'm not a painter. I'm just somebody who went out and did a little painting thing. So I got lucky to get caught up in all this fun craziness.

CO: But it's interesting it's just such a good spirit to all of it, isn't it? I mean normally I guess when you fear when you end up being caught up in so kind of a social media thing that is going to be nasty, right?

CD: Well, absolutely. But the comments were so nice. You know your mom looks like she has kind eyes. I think she's the honorary mom of Reddit. I mean those are things that were just so nice that you know gave you faith in the human spirit again.

CO: You have been in touch with the Swedish artist, Kristoffer Zetterstrand, is that right?

CD: I did! I actually joined Reddit the next day because I felt like I somehow had to thank him formally, you know? Because he had offered to send the painting to my son. He’s kind of like what I would call a legit artist. I mean not that they rest of them weren't. So I reached out to him, and just said thank you, and he’s like no problem. And so I'm anxious to get it, and excited, and I think you know it's just something fun.

CO: And are you going to keep painting?

CD: Oh, I will just because I enjoy it. I had fun. And I guess it's inspired me to try it again, but I'm not going to sit there and post it every time to Reddit. I think they've had their fill.

CO: Well, Cindi, it's a delightful story. And as you say, it really does have a good spirit to it. And I'm glad you shared it with us. Thank you.

CD: Well, thank you. No problem.

CO: Bye-bye.

CD: Bye.

KG: That was Cindi Decker, a woman whose painting inspired a Reddit trend of paintings of paintings...of her painting. We reached her in Vero Beach, Florida. If you want to see the painting that started it all, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Percussive]

Peter Calamai obit

KG: Give Peter Calamai a story, and he could run with it. The Canadian journalist who covered everything under the sun — but made a name for himself in science journalism — died yesterday at age 75. As a reporter for the Hamilton Spectator, Southam News, and the Toronto Star, Mr. Calamai reported from Europe, Africa, and the United States — as covered national politics in Canada. But his passion was science. And he was well-known for translating the most complex stories into understandable language. It's no surprise, then, that Peter Calamai was a frequent guest on “As It Happens”. From 2006, here he is speaking to guest host Helen Mann, about the most important science stories of that year.

SOUNDCLIP

PETER CALAMI: Well, I think the top science story of the year is the one that everybody is talking about as the non-science story of the year. The retraction, and I guess disproof, of the claims by the South Koreans to have cloned 11 specific stem cell lines. And it raises the question you know how can a piece of work that turns out to be so clumsily fabricated that a television station can expose it actually get into print in the first place?

HELEN MANN: What do you think we should look for in the year to come?

PC: I mean the really big breakthroughs next year are going to be the ones we don't know about, and we can't predict. I can see something's happening I think the tree of human evolution is going to become bushier. There are going to be yet more species discovered in humanoid species discovered like the hobbit people from the island off Indonesia were discovered a year or so ago and their place I think is now fairly well assured because they're not just one skull anymore but ten or so. That's going to happen. That's definitely going to happen. There’s going to have to be a fair amount of advanced in the whole area of proteomics of the regular realm of how all that stuff that we heralded as the blueprint of life when we first heard the human genome actually works at the level, you know? What proteins are expressed, and what regulates the expression of those proteins. What complex feedback loops actually determine when things get turned on and off in the human body.

KG: From 2006, that was the celebrated Canadian science journalist Peter Calamai. Mr. Calamai died yesterday at age 75.

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January 23, 2019 episode transcript

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