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The AIH Transcript for January 22, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Karen Gordon

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening. I'm Karen Gordon. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

KG: Tonight...

CO: Veg issue. The first new Canada Food Guide in more than 10 years gives those of us looking for advice on a healthy diet a lot to chew on -- but a lot less of what we were previously told to chew on.

KG: A splitting headache. Months after the clerk and sergeant-at-arms are marched out of the B.C. legislature, the reason is revealed -- they're accused of overspending on everything from travel to bespoke suits to a wood splitter.

CO: Take a stand and deliver. The U.S. says it will request the extradition of Huawei exec Meng Wanzhou -- and Canada's former ambassador to China says Beijing's anger should not affect Ottawa's resolve.

KG: Pipeline of fire. Even after a horrific explosion that killed dozens of people, our guest says impoverished Mexicans won't stop tapping into state gas lines to access free fuel.

CO: What, this old thing? Scottish archaeologists marvel over a stone formation on a farm that they believed to be thousands of years old -- until the farmer reveals he built it himself 20 some odd years ago.

KG: And if they find you, you're going to wish you'd never been airborne. The city of Kingston, Ontario, wants the mystery pilot who's been buzzing around the city every night to just take off -- or rather, stop taking off. As It Happens. The Tuesday Edition. Radio that warns the pilot not everyone wants to be taken under your wing.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Kingston residents baffled by mysterious sound buzzing overhead

Canada Food Guide

Guest: Sylvain Charlebois

KG: Health Canada has scraped off the old dinner plate and served up something fresh. And you may want some ranch dressing with that. In its first revamp in 12 years, Canada's Food Guide has an updated menu for Canadians. The new guide does away with the big four food groups, and doesn't focus on portions. It promotes more fruits and veggies on your plate over dairy and meat. And it recommends sticking with water instead of a glass of juice. Sylvain Charlebois is still digesting the new guide and the bright new photos that go along with it. He's a food policy professor at Dalhousie University. We reached him in Halifax.

CO: Mr. Charlebois -- I'm looking at this new coloured photo that's on the front of the guide, it looks very interesting -- it is a dinner plate. What do you make of it?

SYLVAIN CHARLEBOIS: Well it's colourful. And so on the one side you have your veggies, your fruits. And on the other side, it's divided into two -- you have your grains, and on top you have your protein -- so you have lentils, almonds, tofu, and if you look really hard you'll find a little bowl of yogurt and some juice -- they may look like wood but in actuality it's beef. [Laughter] So that tells you about the approach that Health Canada put for this new Food Guide.

CO: I was wondering what those were, those kind of brown lumps at the very top sort of offside, that's the beef.

SC: Absolutely yes. So meat is somewhere in there. And there's a piece of fish as well, I think it's salmon. But you can tell that really Health Canada wanted to offer a different approach to proteins in general, so democratising proteins that's what we're witnessing today.

CO: What does this tell you about what's changed? I mean dairy and meat have really been sidelined in this guide, so what's the major change? What is the new thrust do you think in Canada's Food Guide?

SC: So at a very high level I would say because the four groups are gone, it's probably going to shock a lot of Canadians because we have institutionalized the food guide over time that people will remember the four food groups and so that's all gone. And the other big piece that is now missing are our portions. It was very prescriptive before -- we had to eat so many portions for each group. Now that is all gone -- all we have is a plate with colours on it, separated into three categories. So you can see now instead of promoting products like milk, meat, fish, the guide now promotes nutrients like fibres and proteins. And I think that Health Canada made the right call there -- I think Canadians are ready to adopt a different language when it comes to food.

CO: What does it say to you that they are no longer promoting products like meat and dairy? Because there was a lot of influence from those two industries in Canada -- on the Canada Food Guide, so what does that tell you?

SC: Yeah absolutely. I mean you're basically not politicizing the whole process -- that's what it means. So instead of talking about milk, and of course as soon as you talk about milk you have to invite the people who are producing the commodity itself and for 70 years that's what was going on, so lobby groups were involved in the process. And if you go back to 1942 the food guide was really all about celebrating Canadian agriculture. But back then of course in the middle of the Second World War, the agriculture represented a big portion of our economy -- and almost 30 percent of Canadians actually lived on farms. Not anymore. For 70 years agriculture and agri-food Canada won, now today evidently Health Canada won this time.

CO: We look at this plate though and how colourful those fruits and vegetables are and half the plate is covered with them. But we live in Canada [Laughs] as you know and these are things that are mostly I'd say just, well except for a very short growing season, most of these things are imported from south of the border and sometimes deeply south of the border -- so what does this say about that? Because this is extremely expensive for a lot of people too -- I guess especially in the north, they don't have access to these things, right?

SC: No, absolutely. So when I saw the new food guide I nearly got concern about food security. So I'm not entirely sure that this makes Canada more food secure. I absolutely think it's the opposite -- and to your point Carol, when you look at the portion of fruits and vegetables, we import a lot of fruits and vegetables especially this time of year, and a lot of things can happen to vegetable and fruit prices: currency fluctuations, outbreaks as we saw with romaine lettuce last year. So there's lots of things beyond our control. And right now we're highly vulnerable. If you look at the lettuce over the last 12 months, lettuce is 39 percent more expensive today than it was four months ago. It's great to say this is an ideal diet and you should aspire to eat like this, but it remains out of reach for many Canadians.

CO: One addition to this guide that is free which is that they're saying make water your drink of choice.

SC: What a novelty! [Laughter]

CO: Another big blow to another big lobby group which is the beverage manufacturers. They're not putting fruit juices as one of the things that are considered to be a portion of fruit. So what does that do to that lobby?

SC: Well there was an opening before of course -- the old food guide was asking Canadians to eat five portions of fruit, but you were allowed to replace one portion of with juice. I think this time around they just decided to commit to something that we all need...water. Now I think it's a good idea to do that, but at the same time I mean we're all humans -- we like to indulge once in a while. You know a lot of people are probably looking at this new food guide saying, this is not me, I mean I actually enjoy beef, I enjoy cheese. And a lot of people can't think of life without cheese in fact. And so those are things that we shouldn't forget.

CO: The guide does say we should have fun with food -- especially with kids -- there's a tone around this guide, isn't there? That you should be enjoying your food. Don't eat alone. There is all these little suggestions about how you should eat and where you should eat and with whom. What do you make of that?

SC: Frankly I thought the behavioural aspect of the guide was somewhat patronizing: be aware of food marketing, don't eat alone, have fun. Those are things that I suspect that most Canadians do know --obviously we don't live in cocoons and we don't lead to perfect lives, and so I thought it was a bit of an overreach on behalf of Health Canada.

CO: People are making their dinners right now -- so eating all of this. It's good to talk to Mr. Charlebois. Thank you.

SC: Ca me fait plaisir Carol.

CO: Bye bye.

SC: Bye bye.

KG: Sylvain Charlebois is a food policy professor at Dalhousie University. We reached him in Halifax.

[Music]

China latest

Guest: David Mulroney

KG: The tension over the detention mounts. The United States is promising to move ahead with its formal extradition request for Chinese executive Meng Wanzhou. Canada's ambassador to Washington, David MacNaughton, told CBC News that the Americans have indicated to him that they'll soon ask that the Huawei CFO be sent to the U.S. to face charges. U.S. authorities have until the end of the month to do so. The news comes as Ottawa continues to press for freedom for two Canadians recently arrested in China following Ms. Meng's arrest in Vancouver. David Mulroney is Canada's former ambassador to China. He is one of more than 100 former diplomats and academics who have now signed an open letter to Chinese President Xi Jinping, calling for the release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Mr. Mulroney what do you make of the decision by Washington to now proceed with the extradition against Ms. Meng?

DAVID MULRONEY: Well it is the next step that I think all three countries have been waiting for. Canada, because it shows that there is a track forward that you know the U.S. is cooperating with us. And again it all has to come to pass in the next few days. The United States, shows that it's serious about this. And China, now sees that it has a much more complicated situation on its hands. It had hoped I think essentially to scare Canada into simply allowing Madam Meng to return to China -- that hasn't worked. And it will now direct its fire at both Canada and the United States while this process is taking place.

CO: But it seems that Canada had to light a bit of a fire under the U.S. to get this happening -- even though it was their request -- we have been caught in the middle of this with consequences for people's security at this point. Was there any possibility that they would have forgone this January 31 deadline to file the formal request?

DM: Well I think with the U.S. -- I'm not entirely surprised that they've taken their time. I mean they've got this time and they want to put the strongest case together so they've done what they said they would do. And I think our ambassador in Washington was appropriately reminding them to keep going at that. What's interesting though is as this is taking place the U.S. and China are in the midst of this really high stakes trade negotiation and the next step is next week. I would be very surprised if at some point China doesn't say to the United States we can you know sew up this deal and it will be beneficial to both of us if you simply let this Meng extradition case drop. So that I think is a likely next message from the Chinese to the U.S. -- but we'll have to wait and see for that.

CO: And what happens if -- because China's backed to the wall, isn't it? I mean it's economy is tanking, it can't afford to push this any further with the United States, so is there a chance that will happen and the United States will give in?

DM: Well I think there are two schools of thought -- and the United States negotiating team is divided and President Trump himself not surprisingly is divided -- it depends on what day. So there's one side of the negotiating group that would really like to get a deal, any deal, to quiet the markets and to kick the trade issue which is a perennial irritant down the road. But there's another group which is really represented at the highest level by the United States trade representative Mr. (Robert) Lighthizer who actually -- he carries with him a list of failed trade deals with China and he wants to change things and he's been bold and ambitious enough to ask the Chinese to undertake systemic change. And at the heart of this is concern over intellectual property violations and cyber theft. So Huawei is connected to those negotiations in a really really central way, so China is really stuck. As you say its economy is tanking, it needs this trade deal, but it also desperately fears having Huawei exposed to all of the revelations and all of the harsh scrutiny that a trial in the U.S. would entail -- and they will do everything they can to prevent that. They'd like to get the deal too. But I suspect at the end of the day, saving Huawei to the extent they can is going to be more important to them.

CO: We heard from the Chinese government -- quite a stern reaction today -- reiterating a call for Meng Wanzhou to be released, and saying Canada and the United States are abusing their extradition agreement. Has there been any abuse of the law in your view?

DM: I think in contrast -- one small good that's come out of this, and it's a terrible affair and our hearts go out to you know the two detainees and Mr. Schellenberger and others, that Canada is showing the world that we have a rule of law -- society operates. And the fact that Madam Meng was well represented by her lawyers, is now on bail, will have if this proceeds to an extradition case -- if the U.S. files the papers on time, we'll have recourse to judicial review. We've done everything we should do. Imagine what would happen if we didn't have extradition or we didn't have an extradition treaty with the United States -- we'd be at the mercy of you know every criminal who wanted to find safe haven in Canada. So we need this system to work and we're doing our part.

CO: I want to ask you about what's going on possibly with the two Canadians who have been detained,. Michael Kovrig and Micheal Spavor. What's your sense of how receptive the Chinese are to Canada's concerns? We heard the ambassador to Washington -- they are pushing Washington to help out here, to put some pressure on China. How receptive have the Americans been to our concerns about those two men?

DM: I think Secretary of State Pompeo has been eloquent. We had the letter from ambassadors and scholars yesterday -- a big big American representation in that, that's helpful. You know we do need this chorus of other voices. It's often interesting when China says something -- to examine it and sort of do the opposite. So when China says don't seek allies. That's a pretty good tip that seeking allies is something that worries China and might be helpful. And why it's helpful is because as powerful as China's president Xi Jinping is, he has his enemies, he has his quiet detractors, and what China fears most of all is that their assertiveness will trigger a broad international response. This will resonate in China -- the fact that serious countries that China take seriously are worried about it -- will resonate. And we don't have a lot of options and I think this is one of the best ones that we can pursue at the moment.

CO: Just quickly, was it a mistake to have arrested Meng Wanzhou?

DM: It was absolutely the right thing to do. We need to have an extradition system that works. We need to support international law. That's one of the realities for a middle power like Canada. We need the system to work. And our part in that is ensuring that it works you know in our jurisdiction and that's exactly what we're doing. So unfortunately there was no way of avoiding -- this day was going to come. We should have seen it coming I think -- but it's here and now we have to sort out where we go next. The most important work I think has yet to be done and that's to think about where does this leave us with China going forward? Can we banish some of the mythology? Can we you know take off the blinders and see China as it is? -- not to reject it but to have a very different kind of relationship with it, and maybe one that's more constrained -- you know less expansive, more realistic.

CO: All right we'll leave it there. Mr. Mulroney thank you.

DM: Thank you very much.

KG: David Mulroney is Canada's former ambassador to China. He was in Toronto. Earlier today, Canada's Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland spoke to Bloomberg News in Davos, Switzerland, about the extradition. Here's part of what she said.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRYSTIA FREELAND: The detention of Ms. Meng was not about a Canadian case against her. She is not accused of anything in Canada. She is neither charged or convicted of anything in Canada. We have an extradition treaty with the United States. We share with the United States, the world's longest un-militarized border -- and Canada is a rule of law country, we act and honour our international treaty commitments.

KG: That was Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland speaking to Bloomberg News earlier today.

[Music]

Kingston mystery plane

Guest: Lynn Purvis

KG: There is something strange in the skies over Kingston, Ontario. Strange...and irritating. Over the past few weeks people in the city have been baffled and been mildly annoyed by the sound of a small plane buzzing overhead -- mostly in the dark. And no one so far has been able to figure out who is flying it or why. Lynn Purvis is a real estate agent in Kingston, Ontario.

CO: Lynn when did you first notice this unusual noise?

LYNN PURVIS: Monday night in the evening -- I would say about 7:30 in the evening, but only for a little while.

CO: What did it sound like?

LP: Sounded like a plane quite high up, circling.

CO: Can you imitate the sound at all?

LP: No I can't. A lot of people have asked me if I thought it was a drone, no I don't think. I think it was a small airplane. And I thought it was quite high up and I only heard it for a short while.

CO: And is that the only time you've heard that plane?

LP: No. Wednesday night I got home from work about 6:30 and I noticed it shortly after that -- probably about 20 to 7:00. And it went on until after midnight and it was very low. It seemed very low. There were a couple times that I thought it was directly overhead and I should have seen it but I saw nothing.

CO: Do you know anybody else who's had the same experience?

LP: Well there was quite a bit on Facebook about it after there was an article in our paper -- the Kingston paper -- The Whig-Standard. And there were quite a few comments on it. Some people have been hearing it for weeks. And Thursday morning I mentioned it at the office, several people had heard about it -- a couple people had heard it, and my girlfriend who is a realtor as well and lives about five or six blocks from me, hadn't heard it. But that evening she texted me saying that she could hear it.

CO: And so that was Thursday. The time at Wednesday you felt it was really quite close -- you could almost see it, right?

LP: Yes. It was Wednesday night that I heard it for hours and hours and hours -- very low and it was circling. I could hear it away to the south, and then ahead of me, then to the north, and then almost as if it should have been right over my house.

CO: And could you see anything? Were there lights on the plane?

LP: Nothing. I could see nothing. There was one point -- there's a park across the street from me so no houses were blocking -- and I felt that it was directly ahead and above. And I should have seen it but I couldn't.

CO: That is kind of spooky.

LP: It was really spooky. I actually at one point considered calling the police and asking them if there was a small plane in trouble that couldn't land. I couldn't understand why it would just keep circling for hours.

CO: But to have a plane that doesn't have lights on -- that's so odd, because isn't it even by law you should have lights on for your safety if nothing else?

LP: That's right. And I did notice in the article in the Whig-Standard that some people have been hearing it for weeks. And one man thought it was quite high during the day, and lower through the night. And I only heard it up until around midnight on Wednesday night. But people have been hearing it all night.

CO: Of course Kingston is a military town -- lots of people there are in the Forces -- and so some of the comments people are making are coming from well informed opinions: is it a twin prop? What kind of a plane is it? It is not a jet, they've determined. So there's all kinds of interesting opinions, but no one seems to have any better ideas than that.

LP: No. The last time I heard it was yesterday morning for a very short time, and it sounded like it was much higher up and I haven't heard it since.

CO: So in the morning, was there light out? Could you see?

LP: Oh yes. I think it was about 8:00 o'clock. I couldn't see it -- I could just hear it.

CO: The National Post has been trying to get to the bottom of it too. And they contacted Transport Canada, who didn't have any answers. The Canadian Forces base at Trenton -- which is nearby, it said it didn't come from there. [Laughter] Maybe they would not tell us if it did. But I think they'd be better at hiding it. And the RCMP has declined to say it belongs to them. So where does that leave us as far as getting closer to who might be flying that plane?

LP: Well apparently Wednesday night or early Thursday morning there was a bit of a drug bust or a big drug bust in Toronto and one house Kingston -- so when I heard that I thought, oh it must have been the RCMP monitoring things and now it won't be back -- but it was.

CO: Well they're doing clandestine surveillance it's not exactly working, is it, since everybody seems to know they're doing it?

LP: Well [Laughs] everybody knows. And I honestly think the more people become aware of it, the more they're aware of the sound of it. Like my girlfriend hadn't noticed it until I was talking to her about it. We were kind of kidding about it at work, but then she contacted me Thursday night and said now I hear it.

CO: Well we'll see if we can find out any answers. I don't think we'll get any better than anyone else says. But Lynn I hope it is not keeping you up. And thanks for speaking with us.

LP: Thanks very much. If find out what it is, please let me know. I'm just really curious right now.

CO: Yeah. We'll let you know. Thanks. Bye.

LP: Thank you. Bye.

KG: Lynn Purvis is a real estate agent in Kingston, Ontario, and that's where we reached her. We asked the RCMP if it was their plane, they sent us the following statement quote: "The RCMP's primary concern is the safety and security of Canadians. We have multiple aircraft that support our mandate in Ontario and elsewhere in the country. To maintain the integrity of our investigations and operations, the location of our aircraft is not disclosed. We therefore have no additional information to share with you at this time." We've got more on this story on our webpage at: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Dance your heart out

KG: It is now once again safe to move your body in relation to the music inside Mr. Peabody's bar and grill. Mr. Peabody's is a family-friendly restaurant in Encinitas, California. It sometimes hosts live music. Now the photos we found all show performers sitting down. That may be because Mr. Peabody's has been under a no dance order since September 2017. That's when, after what is reported to have been a four month investigation -- yes, four months -- Mr. Peabody's was cited by California's Alcohol Beverage Control Board for allowing the quote, "standing movement" of its customers. Well the restaurant's co-owner wouldn't stand for that. Although she did move. After paying her 3000 dollar fine, she started a campaign. And thousands signed a petition poking fun at the pas-de-deux prohibition. Last week the local planning commission agreed to reconsider the case. Nine pro-dance witnesses showed up to testify. They included an employee of Mr. Peabody's who described the awkwardness of trying to explain to patrons swaying to the music that they're breaking the law. Apparently that can put some people off. But the clincher appears to have been the testimony of a customer named Lydell Flemming. He asked the commission the rhetorical question, "What is this? Footloose?" Well dancing without a license is still prohibited in Encinitas. But the Commissioner Kevin Doyle closed the hearing by telling Mr. Peabody's supporters to quote "dance your hearts out." And then they did.

[Music]

Part 2: Details of overspending in B.C. Legislature 'extremely concerning,' says Opposition House leader

B.C. speaker

Guest: Mary Polak

KG: Extravagant trips, thousand-dollar suits, and a wood splitter. Those are just a few of the examples of flagrant overspending by two B.C. Legislature officials -- according to the province's House Speaker Darryl Plecas. He released a report on the scandal late yesterday. They're the first substantial accusations issued since clerk Craig James and sergeant-at-arms Gary Lenz were escorted from the legislature late last year. They were suspended and the RCMP began investigating. Both Mr. James and Mr. Lenz deny any wrongdoing. Mary Polak is the B.C. Liberal House Leader. We reached her in Langley.

CO: Ms. Polak we have been waiting months to hear what the B.C. House Speaker Darrly Plecas would say about these two officials who were removed -- it was so shocking to see how they were frog-marched out. So now that you have seen and heard the allegations -- hundreds of thousands of dollars of overspending -- those are the allegations, what do you make of it?

MARY POLAK: Well it's extremely concerning. And I'm very glad that we finally have some light shed on this. It's been a real struggle for us as opposition pushing to have this information made public. And so very glad that it's out there in the open and we can finally deal with it. But it is quite shocking the allegations.

CO: What are the most shocking for you?

MP: Well I think the overall culture it appears to represent and that should concern all of us.

CO: Is it possible that there could be legitimacy to these expenses -- I mean that the purchase of a suit, and cufflinks, and the things that were bought that seem to be associated perhaps with the office -- you said that's part of the uniform. Is it possible, with a bit of a stretch, that these could be legitimate expenses?

MP: It's possible -- we have as a committee of oversight, we have invited the two individuals to respond to the report by the speaker and I anticipate they will attempt to make that case. We'll see how effectively they do. It's also entirely possible that the expenses listed, while they may come across as inappropriate to those of us who don't live those kinds of lifestyles, perhaps they were allowed in policy in some way -- if that's the case then I think we need to address that as well. And hopefully as a result of the audit that we've launched, hopefully we will get to the bottom of that and receive recommendations that will allow us to reassure the public that they don't have to be concerned about wild expenditures of the legislature.

CO: And what about the travel? What about the international travel? The use of limousines and all that. I mean do you think that that's part of the culture? Do you think that that's something that they were just consistent with what others were doing?

MP: Well on the face of it, it's certainly concerning but it also raises that question -- I mean that's not to say that from time to time there aren't expensive travel arrangements that are necessary to the job and certainly involve large sums of money, but to the extent that it's outlined in the report it does not sound as though they were appropriately managed.

CO: Mr. Plecas, the speaker, also accuses the two men of being paid out hundreds of thousands of dollars in lieu of vacation. So how could that happen?

MP: Well it's a difficult thing to reconcile. We need to find out about the policies he's describing. But additionally concerning is the fact that in many cases the speaker himself signed off on these expenses and although he harbored these concerns for, as the report outlines it looks like about two years, at no point did he bring any of the items forward to the committee that's responsible for the oversight. There are some questions to be answered there as well.

CO: I guess -- I mean it's like the whole issue around Bev Oda's orange juice you know it's the tiny things that will get the tax payers and because how do you explain that? But I guess the most egregious -- the one that gets talked about the most is this expensing of a wood splitter and a trailer with a hitch to take tools around -- 13,000 dollars total for that. Have you heard any explanation as to why they would purchase a wood splitter for the legislature?

MP: Well the reports it suggest that the explanation that was made had to do with emergency preparedness. Now I would have to hear something more detailed than that.

CO: Going back to what the men are saying. I mean they have said all along that they have not been given a chance to explain themselves, that they were kept in the dark as to what the investigation was. Now they're saying Mr. James and Mr. Lenz are saying that they are shocked by how this has been done -- the way it was so publicly done yesterday. They say they're confident -- they will be able to show they are completely false and untrue. And they said to be publicly accused of these things after months of secret investigations without being given a chance to explain is contrary to all principles of fairness and decent treatment. Is there some truth to that?

MP: Well I think the ship unfortunately has sailed on decent treatment -- while the actions that the legislature took to suspend these individuals would pay, I think was appropriate under the circumstances that they are being investigated by police and there are special prosecutors. Nevertheless I continue to maintain that the manner in which they were led out of the building -- the spectacle that was made of that -- I think was absolutely inappropriate. Now to the extent that we can shine a light on what accusations the speaker is bringing forward, it gives them a chance to respond. We've invited that response. And as imperfect as that may be, to try and repair some of the damage done by the way in which this was initially handled -- I still think it is the right approach to make this public.

CO: We're just touching on some of the things that are in this report. We didn't even mention all the alcohol that was purchased -- it was expensed as business. But at the same time I wonder in the end if it's much like we learned with the case of the senate in Ottawa that after a big audit discovery well basically this may not be good and the public may not like these kinds of expenses -- they were all perfectly legal. Is that likely to be discovered in the end?

MP: It's possible. And one of the reasons we've asked for the audit is because it may be that while expenses outlined in the report are distasteful that nevertheless they were allowable under policy -- and if that's the case, then we need to do some work to tighten up the policies that allow for that.

CO: And just in closing we remind people these are still allegations. Nothing's been proven against these two men. But thank you for speaking with us Ms. Polak.

MP: You're very welcome.

KG: Mary Polak is the British Columbia Liberal House Leader. She was in Langley, B.C. And we have more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

How cold is it?

KG: On a cold day in Ottawa, it's sometimes hard to get to the bottom of every story. Especially when that story is about construction workers coping with the cold. But when CTV reporter Leah Larocque left her office yesterday to find shivering workers, she dug deep. And she found Jack Quinn -- at the bottom of an Ottawa sewer hole. Turned out he was game for an interview. Here is the raw tape of their exchange.

SOUNDCLIP

LEAH LAROCQUE: Is it colder in the hole than it is out here?

JACK QUINN: Yep! [Laughs]

LL: How cold is it down there?

JQ: Well I'm working with no gloves on and it is very cold.

LL: You don't have any gloves on!?

JQ: No, too hard to work with gloves on.

LL: Scale of 1 to 10, how cold are you?

JQ: 2. It is not bad. I did for a year in Thunder Bay, and this is nothing.

LL: Are you going to take a bath when you get home? Like a nice hot bubble bath?

JQ: Yeah I don't take baths -- probably a shower.

LL: What's your name? What's your name?

JQ: Jack Quinn.

LL: Jack Quinn okay -- good luck down there Jack Quinn.

JQ: Thanks.

KG: That's CTV Ottawa reporter Leah Larocque speaking with Jack Quinn, a sewer worker who was underground yesterday as temperatures dipped down to -20 in the nation's capital, -30 with the wind-chill. If you want to see the video of Leah's interview with the man in the hole, head to our Twitter feed -- we've tweeted it out @cbcasithappens.

[Music]

Aberdeen circle replica

Guest: Neil Ackerman

KG: It was considered an exciting new discovery: a stone circle dating back to ancient times, spotted on farmland in Aberdeenshire, Scotland. What ancient people had constructed this enigmatic monument? And why? Local archaeologists breathlessly asked everyone those questions and more. And then suddenly they had two new questions: "Pardon?" and, "Really?" Because months after the so-called Recumbent Stone Circle hit the headlines, those researchers got some news that made them want to crawl under a rock. The stone circle isn't ancient. It's not even old. Neil Ackerman is the Historic Environment Record Assistant at Aberdeenshire Council. He's the one who identified the circle as ancient. We reached him in Aboyne, Scotland.

CO: Neil what did you think when you first saw this stone circle?

NEIL ACKERMAN: I was surprised by it. I had initially thought that it wouldn't be an ancient stone circle. I assumed it would have been a replica. And was taken aback when I went to see it. And it did seem to be a genuine prehistoric stone circle as I saw it.

CO: And what age did you think it was?

NA: Well that type stone circle dates about three and a half to four and a half thousand years ago -- which is the early mid Bronze Age in Scotland.

CO: How did you learn about this circle? Why did you go out and take a look at it?

NA: Well a colleague of mine owns a neighbouring farm and the people who are currently on the farm it's on had asked her if she knew anything about it and she didn't so she asked me one day at work. And I said I didn't know anything about it -- it didn't appear on any records that we held. So they got some pictures to me and then I went out and had a look.

CO: And so you thought it was called a Recumbent Stone Circle, what is that?

NA: Yes so one of the stones in the circle is laid flat with two stones adjacent to it standing upright -- so you've got a kind of U shaped frame almost that's made, and the rest of them are just standing stones in a circle as you'd expect.

CO: What would be the purpose? Why did they make these stone circles in the Bronze Age?

NA: So a lot of debate about that -- but they would seem to be lining up with astrological or lunar events. They also are quite often pointing at particularly prominent features in the landscape. They were also built over a period of around a thousand years so it's entirely possible that the first recumbent stone circle would have a slightly different use and interpretation by the people building it than the very last one.

CO: So was it pretty exciting for your archaeology service in Aberdeenshire to discover this?

NA: Yes. It was a fairly big deal for us -- it's not often things like this get reported.

CO: And you put out the announcement -- you told your community that you have this great discovery.

NA: Yeah. Well we put quite a lot of work into the research. We looked at all the photographs and old maps and things like that which were inconclusive but that's not unusual necessarily. We had noticed a few things that weren't sitting quite right, but from everything we knew at that point it seemed almost certain to be original and at some point you've got to stick your head up and say this is what we think we've got. And we carried on researching afterwards and yeah then eventually we got a phone call from someone saying, actually I built that and...[laughter] it stopped the research really.

CO: And how old is it really?

NA: I think mid-1990s.

CO: It's about 20 years old -- not three or four thousand years old.

NA: Bit of a difference.

CO: Okay describe for me that day at the Aberdeenshire Council. Describe the feeling that -- I know this is a sad thing to ask you but how did you...

NA: Well my initial feelings obviously disappointment and the realisation that I was going to have to put out another press release [chuckles] to counter what I said. But then it is also very interesting in its own right. The more I kind of thought about it, the more interesting I find it that it is such a well-made version of a monument type -- that is so specific to this region.

CO: It's a complete replica. Now who made it? When did you find out about it? And first of all, how did you find out and what did you learn about who actually made it?

NA: The person that made it phoned another archaeologist who I'd been working with on this who's an expert in recumbent stone circles -- the individual who built it phoned him to say, you know I've seen this in the news and it was me that built it. But I think it has a very fine outlook over the hills and valleys of Aberdeenshire -- it is a beautiful kind of viewpoint. And he just made it as a little kind of a landscape feature for himself as well off the road and very few people are ever going to stumble across it, so I think he just can fancied having one on his farm.

CO: He wasn't trying to fool you. This wasn't some kind of joke or a scam. He just had this in this yard -- and he fooled you.

NA: Yeah. Yeah there was no malicious intent or anything like that. He just wanted to do it and did a very good job of it.

CO: Now how come you couldn't tell that this wasn't a real recumbent stone circle?

NA: You can't -- there's no way of dating when a stone has been placed where it is. You can date the stone but you'll get the geological age only. If you were to fully excavated a stone circle, you can often find small charcoal deposits in with the construction material that you can radiocarbon date. But with the amount of time and financial resources required to do that are fairly large and it's not necessarily an immediate priority. So in terms of dating you're really going off your knowledge of the monument type and the dates that have been got from that monument type before.

CO: Neil what was it like for you to write that second press release?

NA: I was slightly apprehensive. Well I think the response has been very positive and it has highlighted the archaeology of the area which is always a good thing.

CO: I mean was there a bit of chuckling in your archaeological circles about this?

NA: Oh yes, we've had a great laugh about it at work. It is funny -- you can't deny it. The fact that it's slightly at my expense is by the by.

CO: And so you are trying to put the best spin on this and this is really -- well maybe, all's well that ends well?

NA: Yeah I think so and I mean from an academic point of view it is at least as interesting as if it were an original one -- just because you've got modern regional identity being wrapped up in prehistory and from the point of view that probably more people now know about recumbent stone circles than otherwise did has been a positive I think.

CO: And you might ask that farmer if he's got any more recumbent stone circles he's put up elsewhere before you get another phone call.

NA: Well he could get a job doing replicas. [Laughter]

CO: Neil it's great to talk to you. Thanks.

NA: Thank you very much.

CO: Goodnight.

KG: That was Neil Ackerman the Historic Environment Record Assistant at Aberdeenshire Council. We reached him in Abyone, Scotland. And we've got pictures, head to our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Part 3: Canadian animated short film nominated for Oscars

Mexico pipeline

Guest: Mark Stevenson

KG: For the poor residents of Tlahuelilpan, it was often the only gasoline they could afford. It became routine to punch a hole in the pipeline running from a local refinery, and fill buckets and jugs with all the gas they could carry. On Friday, as hundreds gathered to collect the free gas, the line exploded. At least 89 people have died. Mark Stevenson is a reporter with the Associated Press who visited the site of the explosion. We reached him in Mexico City.

CO: Mark can you describe what you saw when you arrived Tlahuelilpan in the aftermath of this explosion?

MARK STEVENSON: We arrived Saturday after midnight and under floodlights -- the Mexican Army and you know forensic examiners were there in the field looking at what was a collection of a big scorched patch in this alfalfa field. The fuel tap itself was in an irrigation ditch. So there was a pre-existing ditch there in which the fuel pooled -- the gasoline was pooling as it leaked out of the cap. And when that ignited, of course it was a massive fireball.

CO: Why were the authorities not able to keep people away even as it was shooting out, right? So why couldn't the authorities keep people away?

MS: Well the leak went through two moments. And first, it was bubbling out and pooling up in the irrigation ditch -- there at which point, these people could dip a bucket into it and take the bucket over and fill jerry cans or fill a plastic fuel tank. And then at some point someone rammed a piece of steel rebar into the pipeline so that more would come out -- and that's when a geyser of fuel shot 20 feet into the air. The Mexican Army responded relatively quickly after being told of the leak. They sent over what they had nearby which was 25 soldiers. And people, witnesses, say yes they were telling people, the townspeople, don't approach this -- this is dangerous --please get back. And the townspeople, witnesses and survivors, told us we didn't pay any attention to that. They literally would just walk around. They would walk past the soldiers as the soldiers were telling them to get back. To understand why that happened the history of the Mexican army with these fuel theft gangs is very problematic because the fuel theft gangs will recruit whole neighbourhoods to act as lookouts and to confront military patrols, to shove them, to push them, shout at them, and throw rocks at them, and beat them with staves. The soldiers can't really respond. So at a 1 to 10 ratio, there was just no way that they could physically impede the townspeople from getting to that pipeline tap. And then there came another point probably roughly an hour or 45 minutes before the explosion in which the soldiers withdrew about 20 or 30 yards.

CO: And then the explosion followed.

MS: And then who knows and perhaps never will know what sparked the explosion. It could have been anything -- it could have been someone using a cell phone to videotape or to take a picture or to call -- it could have been that simple, it didn't have to be a cigarette, it didn't have to be intentional at all. At that point what witnesses told us was that it looked like mist had settled over the field. And it wasn't mist, it was vaporized gasoline. In other words it was like sitting in a combustion chamber. And we'll probably never know what it was that set that off.

CO: You describe in your article that there was almost like a carnival like atmosphere before the explosion happened. And after the soldiers had moved back and people flooded in that it was like a big victory. Can you describe what you heard?

MS: Well what would people said was that they were you know whole families, groups of young -- most of the dead -- were young men. And that they were laughing, that some of them were playing, some of them were you know were really enjoying the fact that they were getting free gasoline. Remember that in a week or two leading up to this because of the government offensive against pipelined theft gasoline has been hard to find. So people were laughing, joking, shouting, in part because they were satisfied to be getting free gas in part because it was something spectacular to see.

CO: There have been efforts -- and you write about this -- to try and stop these fuel thefts and the gangs who have drilled so many holes into those pipelines. Is there anything they can do? Well this horrible tragedy, will it give people pause before they go after into the pipeline and try and tap into it?

MS: One of the big problems is that the pipelines are old. Most of these are 30, 40, in some cases 50 year old pipelines, that have been tapped and tapped again. And so by this point people have developed or learned the techniques for how to do this, how to drill a tap that the pipelines are very shallowly buried. And as the government, as President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador has said, many people sort of justify this because Pemex has long been subject to management corruption, has long been stripped bare and robbed and bureaucrats and Pemex officials have stolen from the company. So the thinking among the populace was if everybody is stealing from Pemex, why shouldn't I?

CO: Just to tell people, that Pemex is the state oil company in Mexico. And Mark it is just a horrible story. I appreciate you telling us these details tonight. Thank you.

MS: Thank you Carol.

KG: Mark Stevenson is a reporter with the Associated Press. We reached him in Mexico City.

[Music]

A Miracle

KG: Usually when people describe something as "miraculous," they're being hyperbolic. But it's hard to argue that the fact that Ashley Holland and her four-year-old daughter, Macy, are here today is anything less than a miracle. On Sunday near Hantsport, an hour northwest of Halifax, Ms. Holland was driving her daughter home from a birthday party when her car hit black ice, rolled down an embankment, and landed roof first in a partially frozen pond. Both passenger side windows were smashed on impact and icy slush started filling the car. Here's Ashley Holland telling the CBC's "Mainstreet" what she did next.

SOUNDCLIP

ASHLEY HOLLAND: I got out of the car. We were on the roof -- and I unbuckled my seatbelt and I fell back into the passenger side but the passenger side mirrors on the front and the back had both smashed out so the car started filling up with water. And thankfully my daughter -- her car seat was behind the driver's side so it was filling up and I ended up unbuckling my seatbelt, crawled through the car, went completely under the water and came back up. And she's still in there screaming and screaming -- I can see the water filling and I'm just like oh my god I have to get her out. Some I'm trying to pry her door open from outside the car and it wouldn't open. And then I finally did get it open -- but I had like slush and ice all over my hand like everywhere and my hands slipped and the door slammed shut. So I'm freaking out -- I'm trying to think like what do I do? What do I do? And then I look over and I see oh my god the window is open. So I had to climb back up the car because at this point it was on its side. Climb up and I dove in through my window and I'm screaming at her -- you need to unbuckle your seatbelt -- she was in a five point harness seat, so she couldn't get the bottom unclipped. So I said you do top and mom is going to unbuckle the bottom -- so I did. And I don't even know how I did it -- I just grabbed her and pulled her out and I tried to keep her above the water. I didn't want her to be hypothermic, right. So from the waist down she was soaked but I mean her hair didn't even get wet and I don't know how I did it but I did. So I carried her through the water -- and kind of like a little hill there, it was really icy and really slushy and I was having a really hard time because I thought I was going to pass out. So I was having a hard time getting up the hill and I just said -- I just kept screaming like run, like you need to run, like go. Because I saw that there was a car coming our way and I didn't want them miss us --drive by. So she got all the way up the hill and I just kept telling her to go to the car -- like go to the car. So thankfully the girl pulled over and she helped us. And I got up the hill and she put us both in the car and called 9-1-1 for us. And yeah I mean there had to be somebody looking over us. We've had to have somebody because you see stories like this on the news all the time and it's like a lot of them don't make it -- so I'm just thankful that you know we did.

KG: Ashley Holland describing to CBC's "Mainstreet" how she rescued her four-year-old from their submerged car following a crash on Sunday.

[Music]

Animal behaviour

Guest: Alison Snowden & David Fine

KG: This is what it sounds like when a bird, a gorilla, and a pig take part in group therapy.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: It's okay Jeffrey.

VOICE 2: It's okay?

VOICE 1: No no Victor -- it's not okay. But remember Jeffrey was just a child and he was faced with some very difficult choices.

VOICE 3: Look I don't eat worms but I could relate to Jeffrey's feelings.

VOICE 2: Oh there's something you don't eat. Amazing!

VOICE 1: Ah no not at all. Todd in fact is a recovering chocoholic and he's making excellent progress.

VOICE 3: I have not touched a truffle in over a month.

KG: That was a scene from the short film "Animal Behaviour" by Vancouver filmmakers Alison Snowden and David Fine. It's a comedic look at five animals like the recovering chocoholic pig you just heard -- in therapy. Today that film was nominated for an Oscar in the Best Animated Short Film category. We reached Ms. Snowden and Mr. Fine in Vancouver.

CO: Alison and David congratulations to you both.

[Both say thank you]

CO: Alison what's the first thing you did when you got the news?

ALISON SNOWDEN: Screamed because you know the last day or two you know we've just been quite, a little bit anxious, just not knowing what's going to happen:. are we going to be traveling to L.A.? Or is it all going to come down and be less exciting? We were not sure -- so yeah it was lovely to see our film there in the selection.

CO: And David were you, I'm sure you were hoping, but did you anticipate that your film Animal Behaviour would be on the list for the Oscars?

DAVID FINE: Well we did know that it was on the short list so it had been narrowed down to ten films. But truly we had no idea. The other films all had their own unique qualities --they are very good works. So there was really no telling, we had no idea, no clue. And I was really picturing that moment where there had been so much excitement about watching the stream live at 5:20 in the morning pacific time and just closing the computer and going well that's over now -- on to the rest of our lives. So when they announced our film it sort of shocked us.

CO: I thought you'd [inaudible] at this -- you've had several nominations for the Oscars. You've won so many awards and you won an Oscar for "Bob's Birthday" back in the 90s, so I would think this would been kind of passé for the two of you.

AS: You'd think so but it seems to never get old. [Laughter]

CO: I don't think it would ever get old for me to be nominated for Oscars so I think...

DF: You know you make the film -- we spent like maybe three years, I don't even like to talk about how long it took us to make this film, but we spent quite some time and we hoped that people would like it and we never make it thinking -- how do we make a film that will get an Oscar nomination -- we make a film that we want the audience to appreciate and enjoy. So the nomination isn't in itself a verification of the film but it's such a nice you know cherry on the top of everything to have that recognition.

CO: Sure feels good I'm sure. I want to hear it -- we've heard a clip, a short clip, from the film which of course can't do justice to it just with the sound. So maybe you guys can choose who's going to explain what Animal behaviour is about.

AS: Well we had this idea -- we were thinking about how animals have similar issues as people but we don't judge them for it. You know we just accept that part of their nature and we just wondered what would happen if we did. And we thought well what if we put them in a group therapy session where they have to talk about these issues and see what happens.

CO: One of my favorite lines is when the praying mantis is accusing the leech of being too clinging and then leech goes well at least I don't bite the head off of my lovers after sex. [Laughter]

AS: They are arguing over who is the most gross. [Laughter]

CO: What are some of the other things? Describe for us if you can just a bit of what goes on in this -- Dr. Clement is the doctor, right?. And he is a dog.

AS: Yeah he is the therapist. And it's really a story about those two characters.

DF: Well the ape.

AS: Oh the ape you mean. The doctor himself you know runs this therapy session and it's a regular session and it is all fine -- they're all working through the issues. And then this new patient arrives who's obviously been sent there, he has done something, and he disrupts the whole session and he's really in denial and he's really against all this -- what he thinks is very self obessed. But then the doctor is trying to show him all his tricks and you know with his other patients you know how good he is -- so it is sort of battle between those two.

DF: It's about his journey and what happens. Don't want to give any spoilers away.

CO: But it's also very funny.

DF: Thank you.

CO: You talk about how much you put into this over the past years -- into this film. But Alison I wanted to ask you one personal question and that concerns your own health, because in the midst of all this you had a lung transplant in 2017. Is that right?

AS: That's right. Yeah we were nearing the end of the film and I fell ill. I went to different doctors. They thought it was a virus. But it just wouldn't go away and it just got worse. Eventually I ended up in emergency with my toothbrush and never came out for like five months. I mean I was unconscious at the time but it was very difficult for David because he was there being told the worst news possible.

DF: Alison was in a coma for almost a month -- an induced coma because her lungs were just eaten away by this mysterious thing -- that was a very rare reaction from a virus. And this came out of nowhere. And the doctors at Vancouver General Hospital you know they had to do everything they could to save her. And it was really ropey because at one point we were told that there was no hope -- she wasn't going to come back. And then they had a plan and it was ground-breaking and Vancouver General Hospital saved her life. The doctors there worked miracles and she came home and finished the film with me. When we were watching the nominations, I felt very emotional about it too because I had to deal with the very real possibility that I was going to finish the film without Alison and that was just horrific.

CO: And so you decided to dedicate your film to the Vancouver General Hospital.

DF: Yeah.

AS: Yes we did because they did everything to try and save me. And these people are heroes.

CO: And I know you've been on stage before getting an Oscar, I hope that I'm going to see you -- what February 24th? -- on stage taking the Oscar because it's a great film and you both deserve it. Alison and David a delight to talk to you. Thank you.

[Both say thank you]

CO: Bye.

AS: Bye.

DF: Bye.

KG: Wow! What a story. Alison Snowden and David Fine are the filmmakers behind the Oscar nominated short film Animal Behaviour -- which was just nominated for an Oscar in the Best Animated Short Film category. They were in Vancouver.

[Music]

Welsh Hall

Guest: Neil Loader

KG: It's an ordinary looking farm house tucked away in the Welsh countryside. Nearby residents knew it was an old building -- they just weren't sure how old. Now the farmstead is the subject of a ground-breaking new dating technique that reveals the age of the buildings down to the precise year. Neil Loader is the researcher who determined the farmhouse's age. He's a geography professor at Swansea University. We reached him in Swansea, Wales.

CO: Professor Loader just how old is this Welsh farmstead?

NEIL LOADER: Well the house was built from timbers that were felled in the 1418-19 and 1420-21 period, so it's a very early example of a medieval hall house.

CO: So it is about what 600 years old?

NL: 600 years old yeah -- in fact pretty much to the year.

CO: And so you visited it -- what was your first assessment when you first saw the house?

NL: Well we came to the project relatively late when the Landmark Trust who introduced us to the project first visited the site -- it was in a pretty sorry state. There was emergency scaffolding erected there since the 1990s and water draining off the hillside and running through the sort of ground floor rooms. It needed a lot of help.

CO: Can you tell us about the science you used in order to determine the age? Bearing in mind that we'll need this in simple terms.

NL: Certainly. Well you may be aware that you know if you get two trees growing in the same area, at the same time, and experiencing the same climate, they will form wide and narrow rings during growing seasons that are good, summers that are good, and narrow rings when the growing season is not so good. Essentially one can use that pattern of matching, wide and narrow rings, from a sample that you don't know the age of with samples that you do know the age of. And in doing so you can match them up statistically and assign a date for that sample. Across much of Britain due to our sort of very temperate mild climate, trees are very fast growing and they don't show much variability in their rings. And that was the problem in Llwyn Celyn in West Wales, the tree ring samples just didn't show any variability. Fortunately we also research climate change and one of the climate signals that we explore is preserved within the chemistry of the tree rings.

CO: These are isotopes that you would be -- like oxygen, hydrogen, carbon isotopes.

NL: Exactly yes. So a small proportion of all the oxygen around us is slightly heavier and the tree when it grows it discriminates, it chooses between this heavy isotope that takes a bit more energy to fix into its woody structure than the light isotope. And it is that signal that changes from year to year that we use to match against a reference chronology that we've built up from several hundred samples from old historic timbers collected from around the UK -- we match that signal against our reference to fix it in time to date it.

CO: Has anyone ever used to this method to determine the age of timbers of a building before?

NL: This is the first time in the UK that isotopes have been used in this way to date historic buildings.

CO: You're pleased I can see that this building has survived it all even though it's in bad shape -- but it really has survived a lot hasn't it? In that part of Wales near the English border -- it's a very violent turbulent times it's past. Can you tell us a bit about the history the building could tell us if it could speak?

NL: Oh crumbs. It would have a lot to say. I'm no historian but from what I know of the area, it struggled through time. In the late 1340s the black death came to the area -- and that had a big impact upon the population and their ability to farm and live off the land. And during that time as well, the people were under increasing pressure from sort of English government at the time and this pressure built and built. And in the year 1400 a rebellion led by Owain Glyndwr was raised against Henry IV -- and this entered the region into a period of quite significant disruption and destruction. And it ran on until Glyndwr died in 1415.

CO: He was the last time Prince of Wales, wasn't he?

NL: Well he was -- yes in many ways sort of one of the last proclaimed Princes of Wales and he led what was in many ways quite a successful uprising against the English at that time. So this was going on in 1414 up to 1415 -- so Llwyn Celyn had not been built at that point. But what was important was that it was built shortly afterwards. And so that means that the region recovered pretty quickly after this destruction compared with many other parts of Wales.

CO: Can you imagine who lived in this house and how he and the family lived in this house?

NL: When it was first built this would have been you know a medieval hall and it would have been open to the ceiling. There would have been a fire in the centre of the hall -- in the hearth area with the smoke blowing up into the roof space. And there would have been a Lord or House leader sat at the top of the hall at the high table looking down towards the sort of service rooms at the end. And then above the Lord there was an additional room -- for you know the Lord's quarters was [inaudible] -- this was dated to the same period of the construction of the main hall. So it would have been a local person of some importance living there to start with.

CO: It would be interesting to be able to tell these or speak with these medieval Welsh people who live there and tell them how you were able to determine how old their house was -- the science would be perplexing wouldn't it?

NL: I think so. I mean to imagine now if we were building a house and to think that it would last for 600 years and the people would be coming to look at it, to study it, I don't think we could fathom that sort of thing nowadays -- it is quite a feat, quite a feat of engineering, and an amazing historical story.

CO: It is a great story. Professor Loader thank you.

NL: Thank you very much.

KG: Neil Loader is a professor of geography at Swansea University. We reached him in Swansea Wales.

[Music]

Galagadon Nordquistae

SOUNDCLIP

[Retro game sounds]

KG: Now if you went to the arcades in the 80s -- maybe your hands are twitching right now. That's the sound of "Galaga" -- in which swarms of enemy spaceships pelt you with missiles until you've spent your entire allowance. On the face of it, that game has nothing to do with a prehistoric shark. But in the mouth of it, there's a strong resemblance between that prehistoric shark's mini teeth and the alien spacecraft in Galaga. When I see mini-teeth -- I mean they're tiny about the size of pinheads. So small that they were missed when archaeologists first excavated the skeleton of a T-Rex named "Sue" in South Dakota in 1990. Well they called it Sue anyway. And the chances that that was her actual name -- obviously are quite slim. But to make sure they got all of Sue -- scientists also preserved the rock around her bones. And that, decades later is where they found these tiny teeth belonging to a small prehistoric shark -- no more than two feet long. The teeth were discovered by a volunteer named Karen Nordquist. The teeth as I said looked like enemy ships from Galaga. And so it came to pass that this previously unknown species was named... "Galagadon Nordquistae." Well good work everyone. You found something. And you gave it the name of the game -- which, after all, is the name of the game.

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January 22, 2019 Episode Transcript

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