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The AIH Transcript for January 17, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Karen Gordon

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening. I'm Karen Gordon, sitting in for Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

KG: Tonight...

CO: Complete devastation. A friend of Kirk Woodman tells us that he and his colleagues in the mining industry are shocked and grieving after the Canadian geologist was murdered in Burkina Faso.

KG: Post trauma. Wayne Belleville received a curious envelope in his mailbox from the man in prison who shot and nearly killed him during a carjacking -- and he wants to know why.

CO: Re-dressing a wrong. 'Upskirting' -- taking low-angle photos underneath the garments of unsuspecting women will soon be a punishable offence in England and Wales, thanks to a woman who had it done to her.

KG: A poet for the people. The late Mary Oliver was fettered by critics and adored by fans for decades of writing that tapped into a profound respect for nature.

CO: And when nature calls and won't let go. A Manitoba pilot just planted touch down on the frozen lake for a pit stop but wound up waiting more than two days to be rescued when his plane would not restart.

KG: And in a league of her own. Scottish ultra-marathoner Jasmine Paris has become the first woman to win a notorious 431 kilometre British endurance race -- and she managed to shatter the previous record by half a day to boot. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that runs an hour and a half every day at the speed of sound.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: She was told 'upskirting' was not a crime in England and Wales — so she made it one

Burkina Faso Murder

Guest: Ron Mills

KG: On Tuesday night, he was abducted from a mining site in northern Burkina Faso. And this morning Kirk Woodman's family in Canada had their worst fears confirmed. The experienced geologist and vice-president of exploration for Progress Minerals was found dead. No group has claimed responsibility for the murder, but it's suspected to be the work of Islamic militants. Ron Mills is a fellow geologist and a long-time friend of Kirk Woodman. We reached him in Halifax.

CO: Ron, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

RON MILLS: Thank you very much.

CO: What were your thoughts when you first heard that your friend Kirk Woodman was in trouble? That he had been kidnapped in Burkina Faso.

RM: Well from time to time in the business that we're in we face this issue and you can only hope that it comes to a good resolution. But I was fearful, frankly, that it would last for years.

CO: So you thought that there would be some long period of time where Kirk Woodman was being held. And what were your thoughts and feelings when you learned that he had been murdered?

RM: Just complete devastation. The local community here -- the geological community is very small and tight, we all know one another, and Kirk was very well-known within our fold -- and we're all just reeling really.

CO: Do you know much about where he was working and what he was doing in Burkina Faso?

RM: I don't actually -- I mean I know it was an exploration project and he had been working in Africa for many years, probably about 35 years.

CO: But he was working for a Vancouver based company called Progress Minerals when he was taken and killed, is that right?

RM: Yes. He you know after cutting his teeth in Africa he essentially learned the lay of the land so well that he became a point man for people who were looking to work in Africa. And he finally landed with Progress and they had a property project in Africa that they were looking for a point man who basically knew the lay of the land and so he was the guy.

CO: He was a seasoned geologist. He was very familiar with working in Africa. He knew what the dangers were. Do you know if he expressed concern -- if he was worried about what the conditions were like in that region?

RM: I spoke to him about a year and a half about this and he did say that it was a concern and that he had to be careful, that he felt that he had enough insulation to be safe --essentially meaning that he had people around him to protect him. But I don't know what the breakdown was. I don't know what happened. The details are still very murky as to what actually happened in Burkina Faso -- but you know clearly that there was a breakdown and you know he was abducted because of it. You have to get immersed in the local community and you become an active community member because you're helping local people, you hire a lot of local people, you get to know them, you get to know their their wives and their or their kids, and that's what Kirk was all about too -- he was a very giving guy who would have cared very much about the people who worked for him -- been doing his best to try to help the local community in any way he could.

CO: The Canadian diplomat Robert Fowler has written extensively and talked extensively about what it was like for him when he was held for ransom for a long period of time -- it was just brutal what he went through. You figured as well that your friend will be held for ransom, and at some point released. Why do you think he was killed so quickly? What have you heard about what happened?

RM: Well I have another friend who worked in the same area -- that individual when I was told that when he heard that Kirk had been abducted he said right away that he would be killed. In that particular part of Africa, it's been taken over by to a large degree Islamist militants and extremists who are more interested in making a point than they are in extracting money for ransom.

CO: Before we let you go, maybe tell us a bit about Kirkwood -- what kind of a man he was?

RM: [Chokes up] He was a fun and funny guy. He was a lot of fun to be around -- a lot of fun to be with. He was a tremendously sweet man, tremendously polite. He was the type of guy -- you know how everyone in their life has favourite people, he was one of my favourite people and he was probably favourite people to a lot of people because he was very positive and just a really sweet guy who lived his life the way the rest of us do. He was described in the local newspaper here as being a mining executive -- and that conjures up images of one percenters and that just isn't the case -- he lived in a bungalow in Sackville which would be the equivalent of Scarborough or Pickering -- and you know the last time I saw his car it was a Ford Tempo. He was a very unassuming individual, tremendously ethical. Married his university sweetheart, and raised two very wonderful boys.

CO: What effect is his death having on the community of geologists -- among the people who worked and knew him?

RM: We are all still reeling and processing what has happened. It's a tremendous and sad day. Everyone here pretty well knows everyone else who's in the business -- if you've been in it any more than three or four years, and so we're all just thankful that we live in a nation that has a rule of law and where our kids can grow up and be safe, and we don't have to worry about this sort of thing.

CO: Ron, again our condolences to you and everyone who knew Kirk Woodman. And thank you for telling us about him.

RM: You're very welcome. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to honour my friend.

CO: Take care.

RM: Thank you.

KG: Ron Mills is a geologist and friend of the late Kirk Woodman -- who was found dead in Burkina Faso. We reached Mr. Mills in Halifax.

[Music]

Ottawa bus crash

KG: People in Ottawa are pulling together to support a young woman who survived last week's fatal bus crash. Her name is Elizabeth Langan. She has Down syndrome. She lives with her parents in the suburb of Kanata, and takes the bus on her own each week to an art class. Here she is speaking to CBC Ottawa's Robyn Miller.

SOUNDCLIP

ELIZABETH LANGAN: I'm Elizabeth.

ROBYN MILLER: And how old are you Elizabeth?

EL: 25.

ROBYN MILLER: 25. And what are some of your favourite things to do?

EL: I don't know if you heard music -- singing and drama and poetry.

KG: When bus 269 collided into Westboro station last Friday, Ms. Langan was thrown about. She saw a woman with blood and glass on her face and one of the people who died. Here's her mother Lyne Filion describing what happened when her daughter called her from the scene.

SOUNDCLIP

LYNE FILION: I thought it was just something very minor. And I had said, oh well where are you Elizabeth? And she said Bayshore. My husband was at the dentist so I said well Elizabeth you go inside Bayshore, get yourself a cup of coffee, and daddy will be there -- but she's screaming and crying -- and I said, Elizabeth is there an adult around you that can help you? And at first there wasn't. It was just chaos and confusion. So I said Elizabeth I'm going to hang up, I'm going to call daddy, and he's going to come right away to pick you up. And so then after I spoke to him, a woman called me and she said, Hi I'm with your daughter Elizabeth -- we had a very serious bus accident, she's really upset and we're at Westboro station. And I'm like oh my goodness I sent my husband to Bayshore. And then we just kind of stayed in touch because she was letting us know what was happening there so. And she just told me I'm going to try and shield her as much as possible from what she is seeing and that I'll stay with her until her dad comes. And we just thanked her and appreciated everything that she did for her because I could hear her in the background crying and being really upset and it broke my heart that I couldn't be there to support her.

KG: Lyne Filion describing her daughter Elizabeth Langan's trauma on the day of the bus crash in Ottawa last week. The young woman with Down syndrome and her parents, value her independence and will slowly work to get her back on the bus and riding on her own again. And so they put out a call online for people riding the bus to lend her a hand.

SOUNDCLIP

LYNE FILION: Our biggest concern after she goes through the therapy -- after we do the baby steps of getting her back onto the bus with support, what happens weeks later? Months later? -- and she's back on the bus riding on her own but then something triggers her -- it's that unknown factor, right, what will trigger her? And all of a sudden she starts crying or has a panic attack, if you're on that bus and you see Elizabeth, if you could just reach out to her and say, hi Elizabeth I see you are upset and that you were on the bus accident and I'm here to help you -- would you like us to call your parents or do you want us to just sit beside you? Because that might be all she needs -- is someone to just say hi to her and say, you're safe, you're okay, let me sit with you and we'll get home together. You know she may just need that or she may need a phone call to us, you know. And we may need to go pick her up. They may need to stop at the next bus stop and actually get off the bus -- like we don't know. So when we reached out to the community it's actually overwhelming. [Chokes up] All the responses were just incredible.

KG: That was Lyne Filion speaking about her adult daughter, Elizabeth Langan, to CBC Ottawa reporter Robyn Miller.

[Music]

Upskirting Law

Guest: Gina Martin

KG: It's called "upskirting" -- the act of taking a photo under a person's clothing, generally women's, without permission. Until now there was no specific law making it a crime in England and Wales. This week, that changed. A bill approved in the House of Lords made upskirting a sexual offence with a penalty of up to two years in prison. Now all that's left is the formality of Royal Assent. That bill was spearheaded by Gina Martin, after she was upskirted at a music festival a year and a half ago. We reached Ms. Martin in London, England.

CO: Gina do I understand correctly that thanks to you it's now illegal in England and Wales for someone to put his phone up a woman's skirt and take a photo of her crotch?

GINA MARTIN: Yes that is correct. Very exciting.

CO: Okay. But what is probably more surprising about this story is that before you did that, it was legal for a man to put his phone or someone to put their phone up, presumably a man, up a woman's skirt and take a picture of her crotch.

GM: Well yeah that's the crazy thing because the law was quite complex. It wasn't technically legal as a kind of you know 'we're okay with it' -- it was just that there was no specific offence that you could use -- it was quite a big job to get done, you know.

CO: And I'm going to ask you about the big job. But let's go back to how this all began for you -- when you learned that this was the case. What happened to you at the music festival?

GM: I was watching The Killers -- out with my sister, I was waiting for them to come on stage and it was a very sunny day. And this group of guys were kind of I guess hitting on me and trying to get my attention. They were being quite rude. And I said no, as many times as I could without getting angry. And I felt one of them brush up against me, and I didn't really think anything of it because we were in a crowd. But then I saw one of the guys on his phone and he'd been sent a photo that was about three inches away from some girl's genitals covered by you know fabric -- her knickers -- and it was a really intrusive photo. And I immediately knew it was me. So I grabbed the phone and I started shouting you know, you taking pictures of my skirt? And then some of the crowd helped me by telling me to run and kind of distracting him -- and I ran to the police, and he followed me. And when I got there, I handed the phone and a picture -- he made it as well because obviously he followed me -- and they kind of said, sorry there's nothing we can do about this.

CO: What do mean 'nothing you can do?' You learned that this was okay for him to do this?

GM: Yeah I learned that they kind of were powerless to be able to prosecute at that point because the law was so complex that they didn't have the time or the power to be able to prosecute that. So that's when I kind of started researching into the law and then realized it wasn't a sexual offence -- and there's a 100 year old law that they could maybe apply to it but it's not written for this purpose at all -- it's very hard to apply. And that's when I realized, okay we needed to update the law here, we need to change it.

CO: Okay so you decided you were going to do something about this, right, why is that? Why did you decide it wasn't enough just to be told and just say, put this behind you? But you said, I'm going to change this.

GM: I think because I was so bored of brushing that stuff off you know. Like walking down the street and someone yelling something from a car -- or being in a bar and someone smacking my bum -- or you know some guy asking me out and me saying, no I'm okay, thank you, and him not taking no for an answer -- and just feeling unsafe a lot of the time. I remember thinking to myself okay I could either prosecute the guys who did it to me or I could maybe fight the bigger fight and try and change this for everyone -- and it felt like that was a way more valuable thing to do, you know, than just deal with my case.

CO: And what did you have to do in order to get the law changed?

GM: Oh my gosh. Change your whole life. Commit your whole life to it. It's been unbelievable. I have a full time job as well -- so I've been doing it sort of before work or after work. I really had to partner with a very powerful law firm -- I got free representation from [inaudible] law firm. And we basically went to the government and we lobbied the government and convinced them individually -- one-by-one, person-by-person -- why we were right about this and why the legislation we'd written works, you know. And we managed to get MPs and politicians and ministers from every party to agree with us and that's what really made the difference because there's not many things in British politics right now that everyone agrees on, you know. [Laughter] So that was a very critical point but it's been a long time.

CO: You had -- Liberal Democrat, MP Wera Hobhouse, who was championing your campaign. But you did have one odd defeat before everyone else came onboard and said, come on this has to be passed. What happened? Where was it almost defeated?

GM: The parliamentary process in the UK is that you know there's 650 MPs and there's 649 who agree with an issue -- it only takes one of them to kill a private member's bill. So on the second reading Christopher Chope objected -- he hadn't even read the bill -- he objected to multiple bills on that day. He's protesting the parliamentary process -- he's not happy with the process -- but obviously I personally don't agree with that kind of process because it stands in the way of democracy. And so I talked to him about it. I told him what the cause was and what the bill was, and he ended up being a supporter of it -- but obviously he had already stopped it by then, so obviously Wera's bill didn't go on after that point. So the government responded by tabling a government bill that could not be objected to, and that's what we've been working on for the last six months.

CO: Good heavens. I understand that Sir Christopher Chope not only had shouts of shame from other MPs, but that he went back to his office to find four pairs of knickers hanging on his door.

GM: Yeah his office was covered in knickers. When he went home, the same thing in his constituency -- there were people at his door -- it was a big big media storm here. And I think it shows how much people don't agree with the process that one person can object and kill an entire, you know? He didn't mean it to be a good thing, but I think you know he kind of helped in terms of objecting to it because it made people care about it way more -- but it would have been very good if we had just been able to continue as we were.

CO: Now what was it like for you finally to see that -- I have a photo in front of me -- I'm looking at you with the voyeurism offences bill -- holding it up with a very very big smile on your face. What was that moment like for you?

GM: It was wonderful. I just felt kind of numb in a way I guess because I've been doing this for so long and it's completely consumed my life to the point where when it happened we were in the Lords when they passed it because we knew it was going to happen -- I was with my family. And I've turned into a politician -- I kind of just smiled and carried on as normal. And then I turn around to my mom and she was crying her eyes out. And that's kind of when it hit me that it was a big thing to do and now I'm starting to feel proud of myself. Now I've been talking to people like you about and talking me about it -- it's starting to sink in now that it's quite a big thing to achieve.

CO: Well not only did you achieve this and got this changed after 100 years but you managed to get all the parties to agree, so I nominate you to try and fix Brexit.

GM: [Laughs] That will be my next campaign.

CO: I think you could do it Gina. It's good to talk to you. Thank you. Take care.

GM: Thank you so much.

KG: Gina Martin successfully campaigned to make upskirting a crime in England and Wales. We reached her in London. For more on that story head to our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Ultramarathoner

Guest: Jasmine Paris

KG: Within gruelling foot race classification, there are marathons and ultra-marathons. And then, there is the Montane Spine Race -- considered one of the world's toughest endurance races, the non-stop 431 kilometre winter marathon follows England's Pennine Way -- a National Trail the tracks along the upland mountain tops from south of Manchester up into Scotland. This year's race started this past Sunday at 8:00 in the morning. Precisely 83-hours, 12-minutes, and 23 seconds later, 35-year-old Jasmin Paris crossed the finish -- obliterating the previous record by over 12 hours. Not only that, but she became the first woman ever to win the gruelling race. We reached Jasmin at home in Edinburgh, Scotland.

CO: Jasmine, first of all, big congratulations.

JASMINE PARIS: Thank you.

CO: Have you recovered?

JP: No, I think I'll need a few more days for that. A bit more sleep.

CO: I understand you might have lost a toenail or a lot skin from your feet.

JP: I think I've lost more 1-2 nail, yeah, and definitely some skin, and got some tendonitis as well, and just some achy muscles -- but I think I've come away quite lightly really.

CO: The Montane Spine Race, as I understand it, strikes fear into the heart of runners. What did you know and think about that race before you signed up?

JP: So I knew about the race and I actually followed it every year and I thought that people were crazy to run it -- why would you put yourself through that misery? And then I somehow ended up signing up myself. It's basically a 268 mile race along the Pennine in winter. You're racing non-stop so there's not very much sleep along the way, so it is quite a lot of challenges to contend with.

CO: And we've already said it in the introduction but we'll say it again. You did that race in 83-hours, 12-minutes, and 23-seconds.

JP: Yes yes.

CO: And you blew the previous record set by a man by about, what 12 hours?

JP: Yeah something like that. I think it is about 12 hours and a minute.

CO: So you went from being someone who thought you would never do this to someone who blew away the record.

JP: It was as I expected -- you know not all pleasant. It was tough to do it. And I think there is quite a lot of challenges with the darkness and the fact that the weather is bad in winter and the loneliness and sort of the remoteness of it all. There were lots of good moments as well -- the very memorable moments.

CO: What were the memorable moments?

JP: The last day was stunning and cold, but stunningly beautiful. And it was very remote and very arousing. It was a real experience. And also by the last day having some -- I kept seeing things: animals in the rocks and things. So it was rather a surreal experience. I think that was kind of special that day. Obviously getting to the finish was very special as well, and very emotional. See my daughter again and my husband.

CO: Those hallucinations you were having in the last stretch -- you had four hours sleep in the course of this whole run. And well you say it was fascinating to see them, but at the same time it must have been a bit alarming to see what your mind was doing at that point, did it scare you?

JP: It scared me more in the sense that I realised how tired I was. And in a sense that's not entirely safe when you're in a remote area and it's winter. I was very aware of that and I made sure to sort of put on all my clothes when I started to feel cold and also to keep moving. So I just think that you're more at risk of you know getting hypothermia and having problems if you are that tired -- but it was interesting to be sort of that close to the line and how far you can push your body.

CO: You said elsewhere that you saw, in your hallucinations, there was a pig in the heather, you saw trees doing their morning workouts and stretching -- but this curious one -- a house appeared. Was that your mind telling you that it needed comfort, do you think?

JP: Bear in mind that sort of two-third of this race you are running with a head torch -- I find that I often feel that I have buildings on either side of me or an arch over me -- and I think sometimes part of that is so exenterated the impression is given by the head torch so I think quite possibly that you imagine it to some extent because you feel like you'd like the comfort -- if the weather is really terrible I often sort of was feeling it would be lovely to be sort of between two buildings if that really was the case.

CO: As listeners are thinking, my gosh how did she do it? This sounds so difficult. I will introduce another element that you were dealing with -- several times you stop to express milk because you were still breastfeeding your daughter.

JP: Yeah. My daughter is nearly 14 months so she no longer theoretically would need it but she was [inaudible] over Christmas and she went right back to breastfeeding so she was still feeding a lot when I went into the final week of preparation before the race -- when she's obviously not ideal. I wasn't really able to sort of go cold turkey and quit that, so I had a breast pump in my drop-bag and I expressed it all at the checkpoints. It made me a little bit slower at the checkpoints than the men at the start. But as the week went on to be honest it didn't really make a difference because people took longer at the checkpoints and I was making less milk so it became irrelevant anyway. But it was an extra thing you had to think about you know as well as changing the batteries on my torch and [inaudible] at my feet and everything else.

CO: You're obviously very physically strong. You have tremendous endurance and you have tremendous mental endurance to have done this. And so when you cross that finish line and you saw your daughter -- and I know that you have written on your Facebook, you wanted to get back in shape after giving birth. You needed challenges. You needed to push yourself. What does it mean when you saw your daughter and you held her?

JP: Yeah that was obviously like a massive inspiration for me throughout the race and getting back to her. And actually when it was tough, I sort of cheered myself up by imagining her doing different things -- the little things that she does that make me smile and that we like to do together. So I would either think of those or I would think of the things that we could do together in my first day back. Although she was having such a good time with all the people there that she was pretty unexcited by the fact that mommy had come back at that point.

CO: There's a wonderful photo of you holding her I guess at the finish line -- and I can just imagine -- you're smiling, she's looking skeptical, but I can imagine what that photo will mean to her when she's grown and she can keep looking at that extraordinary moment of her mother's victory and meeting her.

JP: Yeah yeah. I think she was a bit skeptical of the hat I was wearing. Once I'd taken off my race gear, she looked a lot more sort of pleased with it -- pleased with the memory that she had back.

CO: Well Jasmine big congratulations again. And thanks for speaking with us.

JP: Thank you.

CO: Bye bye.

JP: Bye.

KG: 35-year-old Jasmine Paris is the first woman to win the Montane Spine Race -- a 431 kilometre winter marathon through the British mountains. Her record time 83-hours, 12-minutes, and 23 seconds. We reached Ms. Paris in Edinburgh, Scotland.

[Music]

Part 2: B.C. resident receives Christmas card from the man who shot him

Carjacker X-Mas Card

Guest: Wayne Belleville

KG: Wayne Belleville was hoping never to hear his attacker's name again. Ronald Teneycke is serving an indefinite sentence in maximum security federal prison for shooting Mr. Belleville, stealing his truck, and leaving him for dead on the side of the road in 2015. But when Mr. Belleville checked his mailbox last month -- there with his attacker's name, clearly printed in the left hand corner of an envelope addressed to Mr. Belleville. We reached Wayne Belleville in Penticton.

CO: Wayne when you first saw this envelope in your pre-Christmas mail, what did you think?

WAYNE BELLEVILLE: I was like, oh man who is that? I was shocked for lack of a better word.

CO: And you knew who it was from, you knew it was Ronald Teneycke -- a man who had shot you.

WB: Yes. He had conveniently left his name on it and a return address of the maximum security facility he is currently being held in.

CO: What was inside?

WB: It was a Christmas card and then two pages of handwritten letter.

CO: I understand you didn't want to read it. That's understandable that you didn't want to read it. But how did you finally learn the contents?

WB: You know when I first got it, my stepdaughter volunteered to read it, so I thought that was an okay idea. And she brought it back and goes you know Wayne I don't think you really are going to want to read this. It wasn't until I was actually in the parking lot at the RCMP detachment in Oliver that I thought you know what? I should read this -- just in case there's some sort of threat directed towards my family.

CO: I know this is painful for you, but can you sum up what Ronald Teneycke had written to you in this letter -- in this Christmas card?

WB: He is rather [inaudible] that he's all over the place, he is contradicting himself from one sentence to another. But initially he is A) inviting me to come and visit him at the Kent Institution. And then he's saying that he will forever not forgive himself for having shot me that day. But then he goes on to say that he feels absolutely no empathy for me and that if it wasn't for my ridiculous behaviour he wouldn't have had to shoot me, so he is effectively you know blaming me and determining that he's the victim in this.

CO: What did that do to you? I mean to read that after everything you have been through, and this man is writing you a letter about how he's the victim and it's all your fault that he shot you.

WB: Well I wasn't surprised by that perspective given that I had attended most of the dangerous offender hearing -- and that is how he sees himself: as a nice guy who's just been misunderstood and you know if people would just look past a few mistakes that he's made -- which prior to his crime spree in 2015 resulted in 37 criminal convictions spanning decades -- that he's really a nice guy.

CO: And you met Ronald Teneycke in the summer 2015 -- you picked him. He was hitchhiking -- looking for a ride on a rural road in Okanagan. At what point did you realize that you had such a dangerous man in your truck?

WB: Well you know he was acting like a lunatic basically. And so I asked him I said, who are you? And he told me -- he told me his name and he is a relatively notorious criminal in the south Okanagan -- and I recognized his [inaudible].

CO: When you realize who he was, what did you do?

WB: I gave him an ultimatum. I said you know I know who you are and you have two choices right now -- 1) get out of my truck or 2) I take you to the police. He pretended to think about it and then said yeah take me to the police -- I'm tired I've had enough. You know but he is just buying time. He starts rummaging through his backpack and he's asking me if it's okay if he smokes -- and I told him no, you can't smoke in my truck. And that's when he produced a handgun. I slammed on the brakes, took off running, and I was shot some 30-40 feet away from my vehicle. After he shot me, I looked back and he was taking aim -- he was going to shoot me again. And I was unaware that I could move at that point and took off running again and dove in behind some covers and just then luckily for me a vehicle came by and scared him away...

CO: And he stole your vehicle.

WB: Yeah he stole my vehicle. And so I'm laying there taking stock of myself at that point. You know I was having a hard time breathing and I wasn't aware at that point that the bullet had not only destroyed my spleen but had punctured my left lung -- and my right lung was filling with blood and I was very short of breath. And that was very concerning to me as I was laying there in the dirt. So I knew I had to self-rescue at least to some degree -- I got up and walked to the road and I laid in the road with my two dogs with me and luckily someone drove by within a period of time.

CO: My gosh! What an ordeal. And the police, RCMP, did apprehend him. He is locked up indefinitely and he has an order, I understand, that he's not to make any contact with you. So how is it do you think that this man in prison sends you a letter?

WB: Well for him it was as simple as writing my name it and sending it off. Apparently no one at Kent maximum security facility was aware that maybe the dangerous offender may have a no contact list. I just find it unbelievable.

CO: And what do you make of the fact that he has your address?

WB: It's disturbing obviously. You know the letter prior to me opening it, the things that came to mind was the implicated threat of A) I'm thinking about you and B) I know where you live -- regardless of what was written inside. So I was not happy in any regard. And certainly not happy with Corrections Canada for not doing their job.

CO: And have they given you a satisfactory explanation as to how this could have happened?

WB: No. They offered an apology and assured me that it would never happen again. He's been declared a dangerous offender. You would think that of any of their inmates -- they would be watching these guys.

CO: Just finally, how did this attack change your life?

WB: Well that's a difficult question. I would like to think that I'm a better person than [inaudible] but like I said that's a difficult question to answer.

CO: Well it sounds like you are a pretty good person before that -- you were picking up hitchhikers. Do you still do that?

WB: Well you know what? He wasn't a hitchhiker -- he waved me down and claimed a medical distress and that he needed a ride. And you know that far in the bush and your appealing for someone's help on a medical reason, it's difficult to turn them down.

CO: So you'd still help somebody even after what...

WB: Absolutely. Absolutely.

CO: Well Wayne I'm sorry for all the distress this is causing. It sounds awful. But I really appreciate it that you'd tell us the story today. Thank you.

WB: Thank you for your interest.

CO: All right. Take care.

WB: Okay bye.

KG: Wayne Belleville was the victim of a violent carjacking in 2015. His attacker is serving an indefinite sentence in federal prison. We reached Mr. Belleville in Penticton, B.C.

[Music]

Mary Oliver

KG: Mary Oliver purposely made her work -- verse that often channeled the power of nature -- accessible. And for that, she was one of America's most well-loved poets. In addition to many many fans, she won a Pulitzer Prize and a National Book Award. Mary Oliver died today at her home in Hobe Sound, Florida, of lymphoma. She was 83. Ms. Oliver made it through a childhood filled with neglect and abuse by burrowing into poetry books and the natural world. She tackled both throughout a lifetime of writing. Here she is during a rare interview with Maria Shriver in 2011 for Oprah Magazine. You'll hear some camera clicks in this online video posted on oprah.com.

SOUNDCLIP

MARY OLIVER: I like to think of myself as a praise poet.

VOICE: What does that mean?

MO: That I acknowledge my feeling and my gratitude for life by praising the world -- rest of the world-- and whoever made all of these things.

VOICE: One of the favorite lines that you wrote is asking the reader the question -- 'what are you going to do with this one wild and precious life of yours?' What do you think you have done with your one wild and precious life?

MO: What I have done is learn to love and learn to be loved. And that didn't come easy.

VOICE: I find it fascinating that whether it's at 65 or in your 70s, you have become happier You're braver. You're more excited. You're healed. You've discovered.

MO: I'm also something else that I never was...I'm funny. I laugh. [Laughter]

VOICE: Life is good.

MO: Life is very good.

KG: That was poet Mary Oliver speaking with Maria Shriver for Oprah Magazine in 2011. And here is Ms. Oliver reading one of her poems in 2014 from a video on her Facebook page.

SOUNDCLIP

MO: Hello people. I'm going to read one poem from my new book Dog Songs. And it's called Little Dog's Rhapsody In The Night.

He puts his cheek against mine

and makes small, expressive sounds.

And when I'm awake, or awake enough

he turns upside down, his four paws in the air

and his eyes dark and fervent.

"Tell me you love me," he says.

"Tell me again.".

Could there be a sweeter arrangement? Over and over

he gets to ask.

I get to tell.

KG: That was Mary Oliver in 2014 reading her poem Little dog's Rhapsody In The Night from the collection Dog Songs -- posted on her Facebook page. Mary Oliver died today of lymphoma. She was 83.

[Music]

Part 3: Pilot rescued after pit-stop takes unexpected turn

Manitoba Pilot

Guest: Happy Bednarek

KG: Happy Bednarek was flying north to visit his friends when nature called. The pit-stop on Pickerel Lake was meant to just last minutes. Instead, it turned into days long ordeal in the cold for the 72-year-old Manitoba pilot -- when his engine wouldn't start. We reached Happy Bednarek at home just south of Steep Rock, Manitoba.

CO: Happy how are you doing today?

HAPPY BEDNAREK: I'm doing good. Thank you.

CO: And since you got off the lake did you have any lasting effects -- any frostbite or anything?

HB: No. No. Just wee little piece on my nose here -- I don't know if it's just from blowing my nose with my fingers or if it was actually frostbite -- but no, I'm in good shape.

CO: Can you tell us how you ended up out on Pickerel Lake having a little camping trip out there in the middle of January? What happened? How did you end up landing there and why?

HB: Well I left my home here at 1:00 on Saturday and landed at Pickerel Lake at 2:15 I guess. I had to stop and have a 'wizz' -- I guess we'll call it. And so I dumped some gas in the airplane but I shut the airplane off because it's a hand prop airplane -- just a little aircraft. And when I went to start it, I couldn't get it started. I cranked for hour and a half, and finally ended up going to the bush and starting a fire and did that for 52 hours.

CO: Well you must have already been losing light at that point as you were trying to get back up in the air.

HB: Oh yeah. Yeah. It was still okay until I got the fire going but then it started getting dark.

CO: So you got your fire going because you figured you'd be staying the night there I guess.

HB: Yes.

CO: What else did you have with you?

HB: I had two little handheld radios that didn't work. I had an ELT (emergency locator transmitter) that I had left in the airplane. The first day I didn't want to you know make a big scene out of it and call mayday -- in hindsight I should have. But anyway, I left that in the airplane. So I went back the next day and got that and I put it on about 9:00 in the morning and that's what kind of saved my beacon I guess they homed in on that eventually.

CO: Did you have any food at all with you?

HB: I had about a couple of trail mix.

CO: And any water?

HB: No water.

CO: So you spent the night out there Sunday, what was that night like for you?

HB: It was dark and very cold. It was not good, but I've been a bush pilot for the last 40 years and I just had to remember to stay calm and not panic and start running around or you know -- your mind does funny stuff when you're out there. But I kept cool as I could and it all worked out for the best.

CO: What was your worst moment?

HB: Probably just at the last day -- because like I said I was running out of wood, and I was very tired, I was dehydrated -- and yeah them guys showed up at about the right time I would think because I was having trouble getting up and walking in the deep snow looking for more wood. But I guess determination is a wonderful thing.

CO: What was the first indication that you were going to be rescued? Who came first?

HB: The Herc (Hercules) out of Winnipeg -- the SAR techs -- search and rescue.

CO: So the Hercules plane located you -- could they send anybody down? Did anyone parachute down to you?

HB: Yes they did. And that's the funny part. The Herc was there at midnight and they couldn't get the guys out because the weather was too low. So they circled for a couple of hours, throwing out flares to see how low the ceiling was. They ran short of fuel. They went back to Winnipeg. They came back again and at 4:00 in the morning in the dark, they figured oh that old guy is kind of in trouble -- to hell with it and they jumped out -- at 3400 feet -- they went through 2000 feet of cloud, and they broke out 400 feet above the lake, and I didn't see them jump out and all of a sudden I hear voices. And I see a couple of flashlights coming and I thought oh my gosh -- there is a God. And those two guys are god as far as I'm concerned.

CO: What was that moment like for you?

HB: It made me feel pretty good. I didn't break down but yeah...it was good.

CO: And so those two guys who parachuted -- what did they have with them? Could they get you warm?

HB: They had a saw, and axe, and they each had a 100 pound pack on them when they jumped out of that airplane which is amazing. And they had food. And then the Herc -- it pushed out two big sleds loaded with camping gear like tent and stoves and that kind of stuff.

CO: Well you were all set by then.

HB: Yeah.

CO: [Laughter] You could have stayed.

HB: I could have stayed another couple days. Yeah. Enjoy the evening.

CO: What great guys. So they put up a tent. They got you. They took a look at you -- just checking to see if you had any frostbite or anything broken or anything I guess.

HB: Yeah yeah. It was funny because when they walked up to me and saw how I was they said, Hap would you like anything? And I said yeah I'd sure like to have something to drink. And they looked at each other and they were just quiet. And then one guy says to me yeah I'm sorry but we don't carry alcohol with us. [Laughter] And I said not alcohol -- I said water, Pepsi, milk, anything because I was very thirsty. And I was scared to eat snow because I'd heard that if you eat too much snow it cools your core down too much and then you're really in trouble. So I ate maybe a teaspoon full of snow the whole time I was there.

CO: So then some ground rescue came to -- a couple of snowmobiles arrived, is that right?

HB: I had six snowmobiles come in there. There was two RCMP out of Grand Rapids, two rangers out of Grand Rapids, and two conservation officers out of Gypsumville and them guys were amazing because they traveled half the night and all the next day until they could find us because it's kind of a hard place to find from the ground.

CO: How did they get you home? What did they do to get out of there?

HB: They flew me out in a 407 helicopter from there to Gimli.

CO: What a great group of rescue workers you had.

HB: That's for sure -- I can't say enough about them. And not just them but the people back home here -- my brother and those people -- a friends of mine that were trying to figure out the stuff.

CO: They're good guys -- really good family you got too eh?

HB: That's for sure. Yeah. But anyway that's the way it went.

CO: Happy I'm really glad you're okay and I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

HB: Well thank you very much for the concern and stuff like that, I appreciate that.

CO: Take care. Bye bye.

HB: Okay bye.

KG: 72-year-old Happy Bednarek back at home just south of Steep Rock, Manitoba. Mr. Bednarek endured 52 hours stranded on a frozen lake after his plane failed to start.

[Music]

Karen Wang

KG: The Burnaby by-election race has taken another peculiar turn. The focus of the campaign was supposed to be NDP leader Jagmeet Singh -- who's trying to finally win a seat in the House of Commons. But yesterday, Karen Wang took the spotlight when she resigned as the Liberal candidate. Ms. Wang had appealed to voters on the Chinese social media app, WeChat -- with a message describing herself as the Chinese candidate in the race, and describing Mr. Singh as being of Indian descent. The Liberals were quick to accept the resignation saying Ms. Wang's online comments weren't aligned with party values. And that was that. Until this morning. That's when Ms. Wang announced that she'd reconsidered. Here she is speaking to reporters this afternoon.

SOUNDCLIP

KAREN WANG: I feel like I have been labelled as a racist, but is not true. And so I want to explain about what is happening over there. I do mentioned I am a Chinese-Canadian, and then the other opponent is Indian-Canadian -- so that's what we said in the WeChat. But you know from the news I read I found they just misinterpreted the words Chinese-Canadians as Chinese.

REPORTER: Why did you mention Mr. Singh's ethnicity in that message at all?

KAREN WANG: It's obvious it's a culture and language like you know habit or tradition because the Chinese people whenever you see the news about a candidate on news in Chinese media and they normally point out, oh yeah he has a Chinese background and she has a Korean background -- you know things like that. But you know Korean or Chinese background -- those things and it means it is Chinese-Canadian or Korean-Canadian -- it doesn't mean I'm a Chinese -- I consider myself as Canadian first with a Chinese background.

REPORTER: Are you not resigning now? Are you still wanting to try to run as a Liberal?

KAREN WANG: I have to respect the party's decision.

REPORTER: Are you going to run as an independent?

KAREN WANG: I will consider this as an option. And it will all depend on my volunteers and my key supporters and the people in the community.

REPORTER: To be clear you are not going to ask the Liberal Party or the Prime Minister to allow you back into to run as a Liberal?

KAREN WANG: We already asked. We already asked this morning and the answer is no so far as I heard. And you know I respect the party's decision -- it is a big party, and I respect you know the party.

KG: That is Karen Wang, the former Liberal candidate in the Burnaby South by-election, speaking to reporters this afternoon.

[Music]

Syria Infant Deaths

Guest: Juliette Touma

KG: They seem to have been forgotten. When it comes to Syria, the world's attention has largely been focused on the planned pullout of American troops -- and the suicide bombing yesterday that killed two U.S. service members and at least a dozen others -- mostly civilians. Meanwhile, at least 15 displaced children -- most of them babies --have died because of lack of care and the ongoing violence. The United Nations fears what will come next week for vulnerable Syrians. Juliette Touma works for UNICEF in Amman, Jordan, and that's where we reached her.

CO: Ms. Touma what can you tell me about these children who died in Syria in the past few weeks?

JULIETTE TOUMA: So it's been a pretty bloody month for children in Syria. This week we reported the death of 15 children in Syria -- a combination of factors including heavy violence but also weather, and you know temperatures in some of the areas are pretty dire and terrible situation for children -- millions of children in fact who you can say they [inaudible] with their lives as we've seen this week.

CO: So some died in the actual fighting, in the violence, but a number of them died in a camp -- in Rukban camp, including eight babies. What are the conditions in that camp?

JT: Terrible. Terrible conditions. These are about 45,000 people -- the majority of whom are women and children who have been displaced -- some of them for years. And they fled violence in some parts of Syria. We are not able to reach them with much needed life saving assistance on a regular basis. We know why children who as we said were under the age of one died -- that it could be that they died because of the cold. It could be because of diseases like diarrhea, like infections like cold and flu. It's unacceptable that this is happening in the 21st century. It's unacceptable that these children do not have access to medical care when we know that they should have -- it is their full right. And had they had access to medical care, had they had winter clothes, and [inaudible] maybe they could have survived.

CO: And when you say there's no excuse for this in the 21st century for this to happen, who is preventing anyone from getting in there to provide aid for those women and children?

JT: So it's the violence that has been heavy in and around the area, that's one reason. But also we have restrictions from authorities, and this is why UNICEF called on all authorities wherever they are to give us access -- to facilitate humanitarian access. Last year for example we only were able to reach Rukban with two convoys. And two convoys are very very welcome indeed because we were able to deliver some assistance but they are by far not enough -- just a drop in the ocean. Much more is needed.

CO: There are aerial photographs and drone photos of that camp of Rukban -- and as you say it's just terrible. It's desolate. Just miles of tents there and people piled in with very little -- roads are just muddy paths between those tent camps. So how are people actually living in there? If you're not getting any aid, if you can't get any assistance, and you've got tens of thousands of people in that camp, how do they survive?

JT: It is very very difficult. I mean it is a terrible situation. Sick babies and we see almost every week at least one child reported dead in that area. And this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone because it is a result of not having any access to basic services including medical care but also not having the very minimum that you need as human beings to survive.

CO: Weather is a factor, isn't it? And winter is really reaching its peak now in that region. How cold is it in the area around Rukban camp?

JT: Very cold. This has been one of the harshest winters that the region has seen in the past decade. The temperatures have dropped below five degrees and in some cases they've dropped below zero. And this does cause children to die from -- they are dying from the cold because they don't have enough winter cloths. And some of them don't have [inaudible] -- they live in tents and so it's terrible. Absolutely terrible. There should be humanitarian assistance allowed into this camp. There should convoys that go to the camp on a regular basis to provide humanitarian assistance. They should be a long term solution and a settlement [inaudible] that has been stuck for quite a few years now. If not, history will judge all of us -- it's a catastrophe.

CO: You say this is what should happen -- they should be aid, there should be assistance for these people, but if there is not what will become of those people in that camp over this winter?

JT: Very hard to predict, but it's not going to be good. It's not going to be good at all. And the thing is is that we as humanitarian organizations, UNICEF and other agencies, we are ready. We are just ready to go and deliver -- we just need their approvals.

CO: And the people who must give that permission -- we know this is a kind of a no man's land around Syria-Jordan -- not clear who is in control there. And you just have to get permission from some authorities, is that right?

JT: Yeah. Well look I mean we managed last year. In 2018 we were able to sent through convoys -- one is from Jordan and one is from Syria. And so there shouldn't be any reason why we couldn't do this again. And we are ready. Otherwise more babies are going to continue to die every single day.

CO: Ms. Touma it is just a terrible situation there. And I do hope you are able to get those convoys in -- it's just desperate. I appreciate you speaking with us tonight. Thank you.

JT: Thank you Carol. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

KG: Juliette Touma is the regional communications chief for UNICEF in Amman, Jordan.

[Music]

Norwegian Landscape Exhibition

Guest: Jennifer Scott

KG: If I were to ask you to think of a famous Norwegian painting, it's a good bet Edvard Munch's "The Scream" would spring to mind. But inside the country, Norwegians have chosen another more calming work as their favorite -- and come this spring both will be on display in London, England, offering patrons a chance to view them and decide for themselves which they prefer. Jennifer Scott is the director of London's Dulwich Picture Gallery which is showcasing the special painting and other works by the artist, next month. We reached her in London.

CO: Jennifer we know that Edvard Munch is Norway's most famous artist worldwide, but he's not the most popular in Norway, is he? Can you tell us a bit about who is?

JENNIFER SCOTT: Well yes there's an artist called Harald Sohlberg who was recently voted -- one of his paintings was voted Norway's favorite painting. And for UK audiences and actually outside of Norway, I feel he isn't well known or certainly not yet.

CO: We know Edvard Munch's paintings and especially of course "The Scream" which is a meme at this point -- it has been used in so many different way -- depicting the era of a great deal of existential angst, but that is not what you see in the painting of Mr. Sohlberg, is it? And the 'Winter Night in the Mountains,' which you say is voted the most popular painting in Norway -- can you describe that for us?

JS: Of course. This is a beautiful painting. It's a painting that really evokes the sense of when you go for a walk in the countryside and you have that moment of being overwhelmed by the beauty of nature. And for me it's the kind of painting we need in our lives right now. Edvard Munch's "The Scream" is famous for a reason -- it's a really powerful work and one that really haunts you -- quite literally it's a haunting work of art and for good reason. Winter Night in the Mountains is a painting that gives solace. I think one of the reasons it was voted Norway's favorite painting is because there's something about it that is comforting and magical. The first time I saw it in Norway I sat in front of it and literally lost time -- I don't know where 20 minutes went because as you look at this blue expanse of the painting it's a sort of square format and the way they are positioned as a viewer you're sitting at the foot of these beautiful snowy mountains and it feels so cold. You have these dark sort of silhouettes of trees all around you, very stark. But there at the centre of the painting there is a star. And it's as if that beautiful golden star gives hope. And so while it's a cold painting it also feels warm and comforting.

CO: And so you say the painting is overwhelmed by beauty, the beauty of nature, but of course The Scream -- the character in The Scream is being overwhelmed by everything. By the drama of existence. And so were the two paintings contemporary -- did the artists, did they know each other?

JS: The Scream dates around 1893. Winter Night in the Mountains is 1914. So not far apart -- they are contemporaries of each other these two artists, but of course the fact that Sohlberg was painting in 1914 -- another time of turmoil you know in the world the things were not straightforward. And for me Sohlberg is the type of artist who sort of distanced himself from his peers so he wasn't trying to compete with other artists, he was trying to hone his craft. And so in many ways he was quite solitary in taking time to actually understand nature and comparing himself only to himself and to the grungier of the world around him. So I'm not sure if he would have liked us comparing him to others in a way -- he would prefer that we actually would look at this Winter Night in the Mountains and think, does that look realistic? Is that really what it feels like when you're up on your own in the mountain?

CO: We know that the British Museum is preparing this landmark Edvard Munch show this year. It's going to be quite an extraordinary event. Is it any coincidence that you are putting on the paintings of Harald Sohlberg at the same time?

JS: It's a fortunate coincidence. And we've been talking to them about it because our shows overlap. Our exhibition opens sooner, so ours opens on the 13th of February and runs through to the second of June at Dulwich Picture Gallery. But the fact that there's another Norwegian's show in London towards the end of the run of our show is a very nice coincidence.

CO: You know it's widely held that great art must have tension and conflict -- whether it's a painting or a novel or whatever, and when it doesn't it's regarded as sentimental -- even if it's popular, it's not regarded as great art. So how does Mr. Sohlberg stack up in that serious versus sentimental art discussion?

JS: You make such a good point Carol because people always think that great artists have to be tortured. Everyone loves Van Gogh because of the tortured soul. For me a great artist is one who has many layers. And with Sohlberg's work you want to look and look and look again -- and you feel that there is a hint around every corner, that every piece of his works has another story to tell. It's so embedded in sort of Norwegian folklore and mythmaking -- and for me that means there's this sense with his works that they are the sort of things you want to live with. But they do also pack a punch, so they're not all soft and whimsical. The minute that you encounter these works, they are quite astounding. So for me he completely stacks up -- he's a great artist.

CO: And this is interesting times to be having any exhibit of art in UK or any place in the -- you mentioned that these are troubled times. What appeal will these paintings have to people who are feeling more like Edvard Munch's "The Scream" than the beautiful mountains?

JS: The opportunity for time out. I think when you come and see an exhibition like the Harald Sohlberg show you can actually just lose yourself for a moment. And it gives a bit of perspective in times of turmoil. For me art is always constant because art challenges, ir makes us think, but also it can be a great comfort. And there is such beauty in these paintings -- it could be quite a grounding experience to come and enjoy this exhibition and to enjoy an artist who was able to give a bit of perspective to capture the enormity of nature but also to remind us that we can always control our emotions. We can always control our reactions to things that are happening around us even if we're cold and lonely on the side of a mountain, we can turn that into a great story, you know.

CO: Jennifer it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

JS: An absolute pleasure. Thank you Carol.

KG: Jennifer Scott is the director of London's Dulwich Picture Gallery which is showcasing the work of Norwegian painter Harald Sohlberg next month. We reached her in London, England.

[Music]

Moonshine?

KG: It was at the top of Michael Dixon's bucket list. The University of Guelph professor wanted nothing more than to grow the first plant on the moon. As he told us on last night's program, scientists in China took that honour from him earlier this week. But Mr. Dixon is still pretty excited. Sure, there's all the important science stuff for a breakthrough of this scale. But Mr. Dixon's bucket list was to grow a specific type of plant on the moon and that honour is still up for grabs. Mr. Dixon wants to grow barley on the moon to make scotch. After our interview we asked you what you would name Mr. Dixon's scotch from the moon. On Talkback, one name was particularly popular.

SOUNDCLIP

CALLER 1: I guess the obvious one, I'm sure others are going to think of it, is Moonshine.

CALLER 2: Surely to God there's only one name for whiskey that's made on the moon...Moonshine.

CALLER 3: I think the obvious answer is Moonshine.

CALLER 4: Whiskey that is going to be made on the moon should be called Moonshine.

CALLER 5: Barley whiskey on the moon -- there's only one obvious name...Moonshine. Of course. What else could it be?

KG: Fair enough moonshine is the obvious choice but some of you reached for the...nevermind.

SOUNDCLIP

CALLER 6: I would definitely call whiskey for space or scotch for space, Shooting Star.

CALLER 7: Hi my name is Susan Wine, I'm calling from North York. I would call whatever scotch, whisky, beer, or whatever they're going to make up there, I would call it -- Headspace.

CALLER 8: Joe -- Newfoundland. Name for your whiskey -- Lunar Whiskey.

CALLER 9: Hi it's Dennis, I live in Whitby. Scotch which I like -- it gives you a nice warm feeling -- I think you should call it Lunar Glow.

CALLER 10: My name's Derek -- I'm from Toronto, originally Scotland. I think we should call it, Shine Moon Reserve.

CALLER 11: My name is Peter Baranowski and I currently live in Halifax -- although I also work in the EU. My suggestion is the only one that can be acceptable which is Glen Lunean.

KG: "Glen Lunean" -- I wouldn't mind a wee dram of that Carol. Finally there were a few honourable mentions online. DAn Newcomb could stock a bar with a list he emailed us: Whisky-A-Grow-Grow, Moon Malt, and Battle Star Barley. Suzy Byron suggested Moonshit Whisky. And on Twitter, Dominic Y, suggested Johnnie Moonwalker.

CO: Oh I love that one. And they're all great. I mean I just wonder what it would taste like. [Laughter] And needs 12 years to actually be worth considering. Thank you to everyone who called and wrote. To join the conversation about anything including whisky on the moon -- find us on Twitter and Facebook both at CBCAsItHappens. Our email is aih@cbc.ca. And we always love to hear your voice so give us a call at 416-205-5687.

KG: And that's it for As It Happens for this Thursday January 17th. The news is next.

CO: As It Happens will be back again tomorrow. So have a wee dram as you toast the tonight. I'm Carol Off. Have a good evening.

KG: And I'm Karen Gordon.

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January 17, 2019 Episode Transcript

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