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The AIH Transcript for January 16, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening, I'm Karen Gordon, sitting in for Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

KG: Tonight:

CO: All work and no pay. Thousands of employees of the U.S. tax department are heading back to the office as the government shutdown continues. But without getting paid themselves, some are resorting to desperate measures to pay those bills.

KG: Extreme close up. ISIS claims it's behind a bomb that killed several American soldiers in Syria, less than a month after President Trump declared its forces were defeated there. And our guest says the timing is no coincidence.

CO: Cinema Verite. Netflix says a huge hit with its recent horror movie “Bird Box”. But it's taking a hit for some of the footage in that film — footage of the real-life train disaster in Lac-Megantic.

KG: Stay of Brex-sicution. As British Prime Minister Theresa May survives a vote of non-confidence, the chorus of citizens who want the EU exit plan axed altogether has only grown louder — one citizen in particular.

CO: Krystle, I'm sorry for what you're going through. But I do appreciate it you speak with us. Thank you.

KK: Thank you for giving us a voice. I appreciate it.

CO: Take care.

KG: Krystle Kirkpatrick works for the U.S. tax agency, the IRS, in Ogden, Utah — and that's where we reached her. You can find more on her story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: hip-hop]

Netflix Lac-Megantic

Guest: Marie-Claude Arguin

KG: It's set in a fictional world. But for residents of Lac-Megantic, the images are all too real. The images are on Netflix show: scenes from the streaming service's sci-fi show "Travelers" contained actual images from the 2013 Lac-Megantic rail disaster that killed 47 people and destroyed the centre of the town. Netflix said it will remove the images, but now Netlix is being accused of using the same footage in its recent hit movie "Bird Box". Marie-Claude Arguin is the deputy city manager of Lac-Megantic. That is where we reached her.

CO: Ms. Arguin, what was it like for you to see footage of what you believe is your town in this Netflix movie “Bird Box”?

MARIE-CLAUDE ARGUIN: Well, it was firstly surprising, and mainly because when you see it, it is on a TV set. And those are the exact images that we've seen so many times — one after another, again and over and over again. But this time, it was reported as being complete fiction as some sort of a chemical or nuclear tragedy that happened somewhere over Russia or something like that.

CO: And what's the scene? What is going on in that scene when this bit of footage of a disaster in your town is actually on the screen in this in this work of fiction?

MCA: Well, actually, it's not the main scene. Basically what we're seeing is the movie “Bird Box” with Sandra Bullock being the main character. And she's speaking with her sister, and her sister is basically quite excited in basically seeing aren’t you watching the news? What are you doing in your apartment? Just painting? Like it's basically hell broke loose outside — just look at the TV. And then this chemical attack and over in I'm going to see Russia, but to be honest, I don't really remember if it was Russia or somewhere else. But all I know is that they were reporting those images as being some sort of a fictive tragedy that happened somewhere else in the world.

CO: And this is not the only Netflix show that has been using this Lac-Megantic tape, is that right?

MCA: That one particular usage of those images in the movie “Bird Box” was the second time in just a few days that it was reported to us. So it was the second time. The first one, which I haven't seen personally, I believe was in a movie [“Travelers”].

CO: And this rail disaster in your town 2013, it killed 47 people. It destroyed the centre of your city, many were wounded. It has created I guess I know years later, it's still really disturbing for people. So when you see when they are watching, as you say without any warning, they're watching Netflix, and they see a disaster in their town that caused so much pain, and that's being used as a form of entertainment, of spectacle. What effect does that have on people? What are they saying about it?

MCA: Well, I'm gonna say that those who are affected, those who've been working like so hard, and are still working so hard five years after to forget and then to move on with their life. It's one thing that we're seeing you know when you when you sit down, and you know you look back at it, and you're like oh my god, like they're actually using those images for commercial use, let's just put it this way. But I have to say that the first reaction is not about the fact that it lacks respect. What we're thinking first is that it immediately brings you back to that night that you're trying to forget. So the first thing is like why am I seeing this again? Like the progress that one may have done over the past five-five and a half years, and their own road to recovery at their own pace could potentially bring them back to square one very quickly.

CO: The company that makes “Travelers” is a Canadian company, and they say that they didn't know the image was from Lac-Megantic. They say they purchased it from a stock image vendor based in New York City. But what does that say to you about how the images of your town are being used? It would seem that somebody is selling this as a commodity, as something to make money from?

MCA: Well, again, like far from us to actually judge or to actually say that people use that you know knowing exactly what those images were. I mean after all, we are yes, well-known now since 2013. But I don't pretend that everybody in Canada or in the United States while seeing those images will to immediately think back to Lac-Megantic. So it is highly probable that people who actually purchased those images like did not know that it was from Lac-Megantic. The message we're trying to say is like double check before you use. It is that it's part of their job to buy images, you know? It's someone's job to sell images because a lot of them are now public, right? With technology these days, there were citizens that were filming the night of, so we know like when we are on internet or in social media, we see ourselves a lot of those images. The difference is we can choose to watch or not. If I see on TV that there's a documentary called “Lac-Megantic: 6 July, 2013”, I could choose to watch it or not. It is my choice. But when I don't choose, and I just watch a movie for pleasure, and then I happen to fall into those images and it was not expected, and on top of it, those images are used depicting something fictive and then for commercial reasons, then that's when it kind of hit a nerve, and then it becomes very sensitive.

CO: The companies are saying that they regret that they didn't realize. But the company that sold the images, when they sell these stock pictures, they know — or they were they should know — where the images come from. So what do you make of a company that's making money selling a disaster, a tragedy in your town?

MCA: Well, I guess all I can say is like clearly, again, I'm not going to judge them. But clearly they haven't lived what people that truly lived those images, as opposed to just watch them. So they can't understand. And I'm hoping by the message that we're sending now… because quite ironically, in the past few days, a lot of media. Point in case, like I'm talking to you about this now; we have other interviews. So these past few days, at the same time that we're talking about that we shouldn’t see those images again, well by talking about it, they're all over the news all over again, right? So I won't judge them for selling and making money out of those difficult images. However, what can I say? If I would ask them, they would probably say that's their job, and that's the way they make money. What I'm saying it's just a little sad that they aren't thinking further, and then knowing that you know it's going to hurt some people. And for some, it will it will increase the length of the road to recovery that's for sure.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. Ms. Arguin, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

MCA: That's my pleasure. Have a good day.

CO: Bye-bye.

KG: Marie-Claude Arguin is the deputy city manager of Lac-Megantic. The town's mayor will be meeting with Netflix tomorrow. And in a statement, Pond5 — the stock-footage company that provided the images— said, quote, "We deeply regret that this happened and sincerely apologize to anyone who was offended, especially the victims and their families." It added that it was working to "correct the situation".

[Music: Ambient]

SK chiefs opioids

KG: It's no longer just a health issue. It's now a matter of public safety. That's how First Nations chiefs in Saskatchewan are defining the opioid crisis in their communities. The Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations met in Saskatoon yesterday to talk about how bad the problem has become. Calvin Straightnose is the Chief of Keeseekoose First Nation. Here is some of what he told the assembly.

SOUNDCLIP

CALVIN STRIGHTNOSE: It hurt me to think about this while I was coming here what am I going to say? I myself, my family is affected big time by these this crisis that's going on. My nephew, he's lonely for his mother and his dad — because they've both OD’d on this drug, and it's been five years. It's just like nobody wants to hear us or do nothing about it. I don't know what it is? But it's time that we're heard as First Nations people. When do we start healing ourselves? Like we need a place to heal. We need somewhere to start taking time to love one another, to be able to face the true meanings in what's taken place in our communities. We didn't just get here overnight by ourselves. There's been problems that have been gone away, things that have never been addressed. We had a residential school back in the day on our reserve right on Keeseekoose First Nation. It was called St. Philip's Indian Residential School. So that's how far the history takes with some of these problems. It's just been handed down, handed down, and the problem is never been addressed. It's always been swept under the rug. And it's time that we face these problems together as First Nations people, and as you as the provincial government, and the federal government. I make that challenge that you guys step forward and help us. Like we have a doctor that was overprescribing for how many years? How many people have lost their lives because of these problems? You know, you can't just say it's going to go away because it didn't go away. The problem is becoming out of hand. I get 50 calls a day because of the poverty that we're in. My hair was black. I'm turning gray because of all these crises. It's not that I don't think about them. I'm restless because I know we need help. I just got off the phone with the cabinet shuffle there — Minister Philpott’s office — discussing some of this what's going on in our community. It's like I said, we've been ignored for years — our community. Our housing is in a state of emergency. That's another issue. But like I said, we're in poverty, and that's an issue that leads if you're in poverty you have nothing to do all day. And I guarantee you when you have nothing to do you're going to find something to do. And that something to do is not very good in our community right now. That something to do is crystal meth and opiate crisis. So like I said, I challenge the federal government and provincial government to sit down with us First Nations. Let's work on this problem together.

KG: Chief Calvin Straightnose of Keeseekoose First Nation, addressing The Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations yesterday in Saskatoon.

[Music: Fiddle]

Maine ice disk

Guest: Mark Battle

KG: For the past week, an enormous disc of ice spinning in the Presumpscot River has been mesmerizing residents of Westbrook, Maine — and transfixing people around the world with its hypnotic revolutions. Some observers describe it as resembling a frosty crop circle, or a giant Lazy Susan. Not unpredictably, more than a few have floated the idea that it is the work of extra-terrestrials. One thing's for sure: it's huge. In aerial photos, the perfectly-circular ice floe looks bigger than some nearby office buildings. Mark Battle is an associate professor of physics at Bowdoin College, who's been out to gaze on the eerie disc. We reached him in Brunswick, Maine.

CO: Make, let's deal with this first question right off the start. Can you categorically say that this ice disc was not created by space aliens?

MARK BATTLE: Yes.

CO: Because it sure looks like it is.

MB: It's a marvelous feature, but there's no doubt that this is a naturally-occurring phenomenon.

CO: Okay, it's huge, it’s so large, it's so perfectly round as you can see from some of the drone images that have been taken of it, and it's in a river. How is it created?

MB: It's a beautiful, spectacular thing. The formation, as far as I understand it, happens when little tiny ice droplets — it's called frazzle ice — these little tiny ice droplets, which are sort of suspended in the water, gradually coalesced in a region where the current holds them roughly in place. And they form sort of a mat of ice. And the gaps in the mat are filled in as the water cools and loses energy to space, and you end up with a big mat of ice, which is rotating thanks to the currents. And the circularity of it seems to be a result partly of the currents directing these little bits of ice to bind together, but also abrasion with ice that's formed on the shores. As the piece spins, the edges of the piece on the margin that stick out more or less are worn away, and you end up with something beautifully circular.

CO: And it's about 30 metres across, isn't it?

MB: It's about 100 meters across.

CO: Oh my gosh! And it looks like a giant Frisbee. I mean how deep does it go?

MB: I don't know. But my guess is it's pretty thin — tens of centimeters at most, I would think.

CO: Now, you say that it's spinning, and that's why it's so perfectly round. But this is in the river, right? This is in the Presumpscot River, so presumably the river goes one direction. So how could it be spinning, unless there was a current going in both directions? I mean if it was in the lake or if there was a tidal bore or something it would make sense. But how could it be doing this in the river?

MB: Well, this part of the river lies between two dams. There is one slightly upstream and one slightly downstream. And so the current is fairly modest. It's a wide spot in the river. If you look at the videos that have been posted online, you can see clearly that down one side of the river there is a fairly consistent current. But there's a big area of sort of slack water on the left side of the river. And the water is going to recirculate in that region. Even if we're moving downstream on the left side slower than on the right side, you'd still get some rotation. But in this particular part of the basin the water is just swirling around. And you have what is locally at least as upstream flow.

CO: And why anti-clockwise? I mean it's not the same way that water goes down the drain, so it can't be because of that. What why is that going in that direction?

MB: It's just the particulars of the basin. If the dominant flow downstream were on the left side of the river, and there were slack water and recirculate in on the right, then it would be spinning in the opposite sense. It's just the coincidence of factors in that particular location.

CO: It's too thin for anyone to walk out onto that. And I hope no one tries. But I understand that the local birds are enjoying this.

MB: Yes, one of my one of my favorite elements of this whole story has been the person who described it as a duck-go-round.

CO: So the ducks are spinning around with the ice floe?

MB: Yeah. The rotation is actually pretty slow. I tried to get a good measurement of it. It takes roughly somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes for it to go around once. So it's a very modest pace. So the ducks and gulls that are on it may or may not be aware that they’re actually rotating.

CO: But at least if they are, there. this is a fast way to get across the river. Just catch the spin, and wait to go to the other side. Maybe the food's better?

MB: Absolutely.

CO: Now, the people of course people are fascinated with this. And that's why I asked you about space aliens because some people say it looks like a crop circle. And it doesn't look like it made by nature. It must be made from extra-terrestrials. So how are people responding to it? Are people in these cold January days going down to take a look?

MB: Yes. I went down yesterday myself to see it firsthand. It's about half an hour away from my residence, and there was a modest crowd, and a steady flux of people coming and going, taking pictures, and just enjoying the whole thing. It was it had a nice community feel to it. And it’s, from my perspective at least, it's just a beautiful aesthetic phenomenon.

CO: It is beautiful. Does it have any colour in it? Is it just white, or has it picked up any tint?

MB: Yeah, it's pretty much either the sort of clear ice with the black of the water underneath it, or the milky froth of frozen water that's accumulated that hasn't grown smoothly into large crystals, but it's just essentially the look of frozen slush.

CO: But it is quite beautiful. And eventually, it will go away. I

MB: Yes.

CO: It's inevitable.

MB: It is. And, in fact, I got a report from someone down there this morning saying that it had actually drifted over to the far side of the river, and had stopped rotating at least temporarily.

CO: There you go. Mark, it’s great to talk to you. Thank you.

MB: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye

KG: That was Mark Battle, an associate professor in atmospheric and climate physics at Bowdoin College. We reached him in Brunswick, Maine. If you'd like to see images and video of this totally-natural, non-alien disc, visit: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Sombre]

Part two: Syria ISIS attack, “Stop Brexit” guy

Syria ISIS attack

Guest: Malcolm Nance

KG: Less than a month ago, U.S. President Donald Trump declared that ISIS had been defeated — and he was pulling American troops out of Syria. Today, the terrorist group claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing in the Northern Syrian town of Manbij. The U.S. military says four Americans were killed in the attack, including two U.S. service members. There are reports that at least ten civilians were also killed in the bombing. It's the deadliest attack against Americans in Syria since U.S. troops entered the country. Malcolm Nance is a former U.S. naval intelligence officer. We reached him in Philadelphia.

CO: Mr. Nance, what message do you think ISIS was trying to send with today's attack?

MALCOLM NANCE: ISIS was trying to send a demonstration message. And when I say that, they were demonstrating their viability to project power at a time where the world was being told that they were eliminated — almost ceased to exist. So by attacking in a location which was heavily patrolled, they were showing that they have the ability to bring terrorism right to the heart of where we think we're safest in Syria.

CO: Can you just describe if you can where the attack took place? Like how protected it which should have been or would have been?

MN: The City of Manbij in northern Syria, near the Turkish border. And it is the base of operations for the United States special operations troops that are working with the Syrian democratic forces, the Kurdish forces in northern Syria. There are three bases there. There's armed compounds, there's an air base, and a logistics hub that are operating out of there. And we've been there well over a year, and we have had no attacks of this magnitude at all. That's also within the heart of the Syrian democratic forces, the Kurdish forces territory. To the west, you have the Syrian army and the Russian forces, who are now patrolling in that area, as well as Turkish army to the north. So it's a pretty strongly held area. And for ISIS to get in there it's quite a feat.

CO: How do you think they managed it then?

MN: Well, that's yet to be seen. ISIS in their Amaq official news organ has taken a claim for this attack. They claim that they infiltrated a soldier of the Jihad up there to carry out a suicide attack, which is based on what we know. But you know the details are still sketchy. The attack occurred in a market as a U.S. convoy was going by — an armored, mine-resistant armored personnel vehicle. so it had to have been a very, very large explosive payload. Now, they do have allies up there. You know they may have left behind sleeper cells. But, for the most part, you know there could be geopolitical intrigue in there. It is in the interest of several different countries to see the Americans humiliated on their way out including the Russians, the Assad government, Iran through its Iranian Revolutionary Guard for either a vehicle or explosive payloads to make their way up there from ISIS’s main stronghold in the south is quite amazing. And that doesn't mean that someone didn't have or a nation didn't have early warning. They just may have not found it in their interest to warn the Americans.

CO: Do I detect a bit of a conspiracy theory there in that answer?

MN: Not a conspiracy theorist. As an intelligence professional, I have to maintain a realistic view towards who would benefit from these attacks in addition to ISIS. Granted ISIS is very skilled at infiltrating personnel and people, but their ranks have been depleted. They're not destroyed. They're not dead, but they're just not fluid in this area up there.

CO: But, as you mentioned, it's a target-rich environment there for ISIS, isn't it? I mean you have the Russians there, you have Syrians, you have these Syrian government forces, you have intelligence forces, you have the Kurds. And so they could have struck anywhere, but this really well-organized and difficult operation to get so close to American troops what would be the objective? What do you think they're trying to accomplish with this?

MN: Well, the objective is the is what they have accomplished today, and that's to humiliate Donald Trump, and to show that they as a combat force, a terrorist force, are still viable even in the most heavily secured parts of northern Syria. You just can't say that they're destroyed, and then expect nothing to happen.

CO: But President Trump as you know said that the war is over, they've defeated the caliphate, they've all but destroyed ISIS, it's time to go, they're packing their bags. What reaction are we likely to see out of Washington? Does this mean that we need to get out faster, or do you think ISIS might actually be trying to draw them back in for a fight?

MN: Well, you know both are viable. I mean you know trying to you know take a shot at the Americans and hope that that hastens their departure. But at the same time as we know with most of these Salafist jihadist terrorist organizations their greatest goal is attacking you know the strongest of all of their enemies, and that's the United States. But again, there are other players in that region who would have no problem having the United States being struck by ISIS, or making it appear that the United States was struck by ISIS, including Iran and the government of Syria. So it's literally you know Byzantine.

CO: And so do you feel that or you sense that because of how they're able to get into such a vulnerable place, one of the other players would have to have turned a blind eye at the very least — if not provided access?

MN: Well, perhaps not provided access, but at least turned a blind eye. You know, again, it's a heavily fortified area. But ISIS still has that capacity possibly to do it themselves. And, again, this type of machinations have occurred before in that region, and they'll continue to occur.

CO: It certainly makes the Trump administration appear naive about what is going on in that region. As you know Defense Secretary Jim Mattis quit his job over this Syria withdrawal. Is it possible that the Trump administration will say we can't turn it around, we need to stay — just as George W. Bush had to admit that the war was not over at some point.

MN: Well, the Trump administration is, to be kind, they are phenomenally naïve. And they are the most amateurish group that has ever carried out any foreign policy quite possibly in the last 150 years in the United States. They do not respect expertise. They don't care about the opinions of military commanders. And Donald Trump is carrying out foreign policy in his head. And that is that the very fact that we're withdrawing from Syria the way that we are is a classic example of how Donald Trump has something in his head in which he you know he's making decisions that again no one else knows about.

CO: Ok. We'll leave it there. Mr. Nance, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

MN: My pleasure.

KG: Malcolm Nance is a former U.S. naval intelligence officer. We reached him in Philadelphia.

[Music: World music]

George Brady obit

KG: His name was George Brady. But he became known around the world as "Hana's brother". The Holocaust survivor died on January 11th. He was 90 years old. Mr. Brady was born in Prague. When the Nazis invaded, he and his thirteen-year-old sister, Hana, were sent to a ghetto camp. Hana would later be murdered at Aushwitz. Mr. Brady survived, and moved to Toronto. In 2000, he received a letter from Fumiko Ishioka, the director of the Tokyo Holocaust Education Resource Center. She had found Hana's suitcase — and she wanted to meet him. In April of 2009, Mr. Brady and Ms. Ishioka were in Toronto for the premiere of a documentary based on their story. From our archives, here is Mr. Brady telling Carol how Hana died.

SOUNDCLIP

GEORGE BRADY: when you got to Auschwitz, there was a selection and there was a man in front of you, and he with his finger looked at you and showed to the right or the left. At that time when I got in, I didn't know what it meant. But that meant if you went to the right, you went on slave labour. And if you went to the left, you went straight to the gas chamber.

CO: Fumiko, how did you come to know about Hannah and her suitcase?

FUMIKO ISHIOKA: We were organizing this photo exhibition called “The Holocaust Scene Through Children's Eyes”. So this museum at Auschwitz agreed to lend us five objects, and one of them was this big suitcase, which had a name: Hana Brady, written on it.

CO: You knew that Hana had died at Auschwitz. You had the drawings, you had the suitcase, you didn't have George yet.

FI: No.

CO: How did you come to find George?

FI: I went to Terezin, and I met a very nice curator, and she showed me a page from all these transport lists, which listed names of over ninety thousand people. So she took out this one page from this thick transport list, and there we found the name Hana Brady. The next moment I saw the name George Brady right about Hana Brady. And then I was advised to go to the Jewish Museum of Prague. There, I was really lucky to meet another curator who helped me find a man who was Georges bunkmate in Terezin.

CO: How did you respond? What did you do?

GB: Well, I had the first collect my thoughts. And then I had to collect the pictures, make some copies of them, and I like to always be a little bit positive, so I enclosed the pictures of my new big family because at that time, I think I had five grandchildren and four kids. And so I was very, very fortunate. I had a very good life. And I thought she might as well share everything with me that she sees that I am a lucky person.

JD: That was Carol in conversation with George Brady and Fumiko Ishioka in April of 2009. Mr. Brady died last week, at the age of 90. The story of the pair's unlikely meeting was told in the best-selling, award-winning book "Hana's Suitcase", written by Karen Levine — from CBC's "The Sunday Edition". And she also made it into a radio documentary. We've posted a link to that amazing doc on our Twitter account: @cbcasithappens.

[Music: Ambient]

“Stop Bexit” guy

Guest: Steve Bray

KG: It was another dramatic day in the UK House of Commons. After losing a crucial vote on her Brexit plan yesterday, British Prime Minister Theresa May faced an even greater challenge today: a no-confidence vote. This time, she survived. Here's what she said immediately afterwards.

SOUNDCLIP

THERESA MAY: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased that this House has expressed its confidence in the government tonight. I do not take this responsibility lightly, and my government will continue its work to increase our prosperity, guarantee our security, and to strengthen our union. And yes, we will also continue to work to deliver on the solemn promise we made to the people of this country to deliver on the results of the referendum, and leave the European Union. The House has put its confidence in this government. I stand ready to work with any member of this House to deliver on Brexit, and ensure that this House retains the confidence of the British people.

KG: As UK politicians shouted at each other inside the Houses of Parliament, the yelling continued outside as well — as protesters from both sides of the Brexit debate faced off. The most famous of those protesters has become known as "Mr. Stop Brexit". For the last 17 months, he's shown up outside parliament wearing a bright blue top hat, and his trademark cape — featuring a Union Jack sewn into the EU flag. And he's become well-known for interrupting news interviews by holding up placards and yelling his trademark anti-Brexit slogan. Very loudly. His real name is Steve Bray. And we reached him in London.

CO: Steve, first of all, how are your vocal chords at this point?

STEVE BRAY: Well, my voice is a little bit strained at the moment. But I have lost my voice a little bit last couple of days, yes.

CO: Now, you have left your job protesting at the British parliament for the day, and I know you're doing a lot of yelling there. But if we if we could just get a little taste of it, maybe you could put the phone down for a moment?

SB: Oh, you want a little taste of it?

CO: Yes, if you could give us your trademark yell.

SB: Do you want me to put it on speakerphone?

CO: Yes, could you?

SB: I will do, yes. STOP BREXIT!!! How was that?

CO: Yeah, that was pretty good. Stop Brexit. And you don’t need to yell it, but what is the rest of it? Because there’s more of your chant, isn’t there?

SB: Oh, right. Yeah, yeah yeah. It’s not a done deal. Not going very well is it?

CO: No, it doesn't seem to be going very well. And now are you getting your message across? Do you think that it's worth it?

SB: Well, Brexit is not worth it. But getting my message across is worth it. I mean at the end of the day, Brexit is a social and economic disaster for everybody in Britain, and British citizens living within the European Union.

CO: I've seen a few videos of you out there on College Green in Westminster. And people stop to engage you, you try to explain things, but I noticed you at one point you're dealing with people from UKIP who are adamantly pro-hard-Brexit. And do you do you engage with people? There is sometimes you just walk away?

SB: Well, they're not necessarily UKIP. a lot of them are far-right, fascist right-wing. So what we've learned is to try not to engage, to ignore, and basically they're earning money by creating hatred and live streaming it online.

CO: How much media attention do you get?

SB: Quite a bit. At the moment, I don’t know I must have done about 15 interviews today.

CO: But you’ve also been in a number of interviews that they did not want you in. Can you describe one of your techniques?

SB: Oh, when I move in with the placards. Yeah, yea, I usually stand behind silently. And I get the placards made, and I'm holding up a message for people across Britain to see. Because it's on the news channel. And as I read in the news, I'm in the background like today's placards are: “plan B, or not plan B. That is the question.” This relates to Theresa May now having to come back with a plan B, after the major defeat last night.

CO: I've seen a few times where you get in behind the reporter or the person they're interviewing, and the camera keeps trying to move to get you out of the frame, and you just keep moving and staying in the frame.

SB: That's right, yeah. That famous one was a BBC where they had two cameras, and they kept flicking between the two cameras. So the quicker they kind of moved between cameras, I just speeded up moving from camera to camera. And in the end, it actually drew more attention to me what I was doing. So they actually defeated the object in what they were trying to do.

CO: But the BBC has gone even further. They put up a five-metre tall platform to put their reporters on so they can try and not have you in the frame unless they want you in the frame. And what have you been able to do about that?

SB: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean I saw on Twitter they were building this platform four to five metres high. So I went down to a local hardware store, and I purchased a four-metre pole. The next day, while I'm there, I realized the four-metre poll was sufficient. So I attached my placards to four-metre poll, and raised them up behind the newsreader.

CO: They went to a great deal of time and expense to create that platform —that stage — to get you out of the frame, and then you went and bought a cheap poll and put it up in front of them.

SB: Yeah, I’ve sense learned they spent around 10,000 pounds on the platforms, yeah. And I spent-two-pounds-seventy-nine on the poll.

CO: So people I've noticed they want to talk to Mr. Stop Brexit. People come and shake your hand. Some of them shake their first at you too. But, at the same time, do you think that you're getting across? Are you getting a message across to anybody?

SB: Absolutely, we’re getting the message across that you know people in Britain, Brexit was never going to be good for us. It was never a good option. We already have the best deal. And for the government to try and take us out of that, and to tell people you know we might have an option, we might not. It's ok to fall off a cliff. It might be ok, it might not. It's just ridiculous in the 21st century. We have become a laughing stock in the world with Brexit.

CO: We'll leave it there, Steve. And thanks for giving us a sample of your of your famous shout, and thanks for speaking with us.

SB: Ok, thank you very much for your time, and we love Canada too.

CO: All right, thank you. Good night, Steve.

SB: All the best. Thank you. Bye.

KG: We reached Steve Bray — a.k.a. "Mr. Stop Brexit" — in London.

[Music: hip-hop]

Font detective

KG: In one of his early cases — which he solves by carefully examining the font of a typewriter — Sherlock Holmes declares: "It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important." In that very same story, Holmes makes an equally astute observation to his faithful Watson: "My dear fellow," he says, "life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent." As a case in point, may I present Exhibit A: a real-life Sherlock Holmes, with a suitably dramatic name: Thomas W. Phinney — a man with a keen eye for typeface. In fact, Thomas W. Phinney is a bonafide "Font Detective". His website promises, "Your font & typography problems solved by a globally-known font expert." This expertise enabled Mr. Phinney to crack a case heard this month in Ontario Superior Court — involving a telecom executive who declared bankruptcy in 2017. The executive maintained that two of his properties — a farm in Caledon and a cottage in Muskoka — were shielded from creditors, because they were in trust to his children. The cottage trust was purportedly created in 1995. But Mr. Phinney determined that it was typed in Cambria — a font designed in 2002. Similarly, the farm trust, dated 2004, was created in Calibri — a typeface unavailable before 2007. That was enough to convince the court that the documents were "bold-faced" shams. Precisely the type of case — and case of type — in which the little things are infinitely the most important. But which, to most, are unremarkable — on their face.

[Music: Island sound]

Part three: Burnaby by-election, moon plant, lonely frog

Burnaby by-election

Guest: Gary Mason

JD: Jagmeet Singh has a little less competition in his Burnaby by-election tonight. The NDP leader had been polling out in front, with a Liberal named Karen Wang a bit behind. But this morning, Ms. Wang announced that she was leaving the race. Her departure follows the revelation that she'd been trying to appeal to voters on the Chinese social media app WeChat — by comparing her ethnic background to Mr Singh's. Gary Mason is the Globe and Mail's Vancouver-based national-affairs columnist. We reached him in Vancouver.

CO: Gary, what was Karen Wang's controversial pitch to voters on WeChat?

GARY MASON: Well, her pitch to voters was really a pitch to Chinese voters. I mean that's who she was speaking to on this medium, in Chinese. And her pitch was vote for me. I'm the Chinese candidate. And it's maybe not a surprising pitch, Carol. I mean 38 per cent of the writing is made up of people of Chinese descent. It's by far the largest demographic in the ridings. So she was playing up her ancestry, while at the same time, drawing attention to the background of her central challenger, Mr. Singh.

CO: There's two parts to this — two important components. The second being is that she says that my opponent in this by-election is the NDP candidate Singh, of Indian descent. So what message is he trying to send to voters by reminding them, as if they need to be reminded, that Jagmeet Singh is well he's of Sikh heritage?

GM: Yeah, I mean I think that that is what people are kind of trying to figure out. Because near as I can determine, and others who are sort of started to investigate this, there is really no known sort of division in the Chinese community over people of South Asian heritage. So it's not like she's drawing attention to the fact her challenger is somebody of a heritage that the Chinese people don't like. I think she was drawing attention to the fact that he was of a different heritage, and if you want to vote for somebody of Chinese descent, then I'm your person. And don't forget — I can't emphasize enough, Carol — that she was speaking in a medium that was only to Chinese-speaking people. So that's who her audience was, and that's who she was targeting with this message.

CO: We do know on the large world stage that India and China does have tensions between those countries. Do you think she, by virtue of speaking on WeChat, and in Chinese, that she was trying to stir something up there?

GM: It's possible. I mean I don't know without her sort of agreeing to be interviewed, so we could more closely examine her motives. It's difficult to say. I mean I guess the thing is, Carol, would she have drawn attention to Mr. Singh's heritage if he was white? I'm not sure she would of. So I mean obviously she felt there was something to be gained by drawing attention to his heritage.

CO: And basically her message was vote for me because I'm Chinese, and he's not.

GM: Exactly.

CO: So she withdrew that statement. But not long after that, she withdrew from the race altogether. So it looks like the Liberal Party of Canada wasn't happy with this. They've said it was not aligned with the values of the Liberal Party of Canada. What are we to make of the speed with which the party moved in on this one?

GM: Well, I mean I don't think they had any choice, Carol. I mean once those comments sort of were made public, and made their way onto social media, the condom nation was swift — as it often is in this day and age you know with Twitter, etc. So I mean the party really had no choice. So it was just a question of how long she would last today. I mean the comments are untenable for a candidate who's representing a party whose primary brand is inclusiveness. So there was no way that the Liberals were going to be allowed to even you know for this to stand. And there was no way they were going to try and talk their way around it so she could continue in the race. So as soon as those comments were made public, Carol, it was a foregone conclusion what was going to happen to Ms. Wang.

CO: So this by-election is what the NDP hope will put their leader, Jagmeet Singh, into the House of Commons. He hopes it will put him in House of Commons. And the race was pretty close between him and Ms. Wang — the liberal — for that seat. So where does this put Jagmeet Singh at this point? Is this going to really improve his chances?

GM: Oh, I think so. I mean the first poll that has come out was a couple of days ago I believe, and it had him with a like a ten point or 11 point lead over Ms. Wang. So I mean that was a comfortable lead. I would imagine that he's even more in the driver's seat now. Of course, Carol, this may not be the end of the world for the Liberals. There's sort of a line of thinking that they wouldn't mind seeing Mr. Singh win because they don't believe he's a strong leader. They see that the NDP is sort of floundering under his leadership. The concern is, or was, that if he lost, the NDP would move to dump Mr. Singh, and bring in somebody who that they could rally around, and sort of raise the support and profile of the party. So you know it's sort of a it's a question of you know how badly did the Liberals really want to win this seat anyway?

CO: So in kind of a Machiavellian way, this was something the Liberals want to Jagmeet Singh to win because it's the best thing for them going into the 2019 election.

GM: Yeah, absolutely. Although, I wouldn't go as far as saying that Ms. Wang was sort of a kamikaze pilot who was put up to this in any way. I mean I think that nobody saw this coming, and I think it's unfortunate. Everything I've heard about Karen Wang there's nothing that has suggested that she's a certain overt racist or anything like that. I think that she made a very, very unfortunate comparison — one that she probably deeply regrets today. I think that the Liberals will probably find another candidate. I would not be surprised if they're also of Chinese descent, given you know how much of a fact that the Chinese voters play in that in that ridings. So we'll see what happens, but I think that this certainly puts Jagmeet Singh in the driver's seat in terms of this by-election.

CO: All right, we'll leave it there. Gary. it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

GM: Thank you, Carol. Bye bye.

KG: Gary Mason is the Globe and Mail's Vancouver-based national affairs columnist.

[Music: Folk]

Moon plant

Guest: Michael Dixon

KG: This week, China became the first country to grow a plant on the moon. A tiny cotton seedling sprouted in a little garden aboard China's Chang'e lunar lander. And scientists around the world are super-excited. All but one, anyway — who's feeling a little conflicted about it. Growing the first plant on the moon was at the top of Michael Dixon's bucket list for two decades. He's the Director of the Controlled Environment Systems Research Facility at the University of Guelph, and he researches how to grow food in outer space. Today, we reached him in Sherbrooke, Quebec.

CO: Professor Dixon, first of all, how big a deal is this is that they have a little manmade garden on the moon?

MICHAEL DIXON: This is huge. This is the top of my bucket list for the last 20 years. And our friendly competitors… well, not so friendly anymore. But, in any case, our competitors in this space have achieved a very significant challenge here. And that is to put a plant, a growing, live other organism — a living plant — on another planetary surface in our solar system. And it is not a trivial undertaking. And the manner in which they pulled it off is quite extraordinary.

CO: And you say it's on your bucket list, but you say it's the competition — China — that has it has accomplished this, not you.

MD: Absolutely.

SO: So a bit of resentment — a bit of jealousy here?

MD: Well, more than a bit, quite frankly. Because I have a long-standing you know decade-long research collaboration agreement with an academic institution in China that are the authors of a lot of the biological life-support that's plants in space. So they do a lot of that work, and we have a collaboration agreement with them because the University of Guelph, as you may or may not be aware, is among the world's leading research venues for biological life-support — so that little, teeny niche field of putting plants in space for human life-support is us.

CO: So why didn't Canada do this then?

MD: Well, yeah, that's what I've been saying for almost 20 years now, Carol. So it's a technical space first that Canada could have legitimately aspired to. Because we are the home of some of the world's leading research and technology development in this field. And it's been as I say on my bucket list for a heck of a long time. And, indeed, we just recently signed a Memorandum of Understanding with a little company called Moon Express down in Florida, who have committed to finding me a ride to put our system on the moon. And I want to grow a barley plant. I'm still going to do that. I'm still going to set Canada apart from the rest by growing the first barley plant on another planetary surface.

CO: And why barley?

MD: Well, back in 1995, I was appointed one of the conveners of the Scotch Malt Whisky Tasting Society of Canada. And so I guess my rationale for barley is that wherever humans have gone in all of their recorded history, and even before, they have always ended up making alcohol. And it's my view that it better be the good stuff.

CO: But now, okay. There is another key ingredient in Scotch besides the barley, and that's the perfect water. So is there the right water on the moon to make your scotch?

MD: Well, there is water on the moon. It's not as readily accessible as it is on Mars. So I was kind of holding out for Mars ultimately. But you know I would have grown a barley plant because there's so much incremental science that has to happen between now and you know gardens of life-support sustaining plant material on the moon or Mars. And food is the issue. Everybody saw “The Martian” I suppose, and food determines how far from Earth we can go, and how long we can stay.

CO: Because We have to grow out in space if we're going to explore space, right?

MD: Pretty much.

CO: Now, you would say that it was really interesting the way the Chinese did this. Can you describe the little garden that they have there?

MD: Well, actually, I would urge everyone to just get on that website. It explains it far more succinctly than I can. What I'm more interested in is how does a plant respond to the radiation environment in terms of its photosynthetic gas exchange? That is the question I will ask, and let's keep that a secret from our friends in China, or they'll go and do it ahead of me.

CO: All right, let’s not tell them.

MD: But we have developed the sensor technology to do that.

CO: And since the night has hit the far side of the moon, apparently is a little seedling died. So what do you make of that?

MD: If they didn't put any lighting system in, which is what I would do, quite frankly. And then yeah, as soon as the light is gone, and photosynthesis ceases, and respiration takes over and consumes the carbon that's there, and you're done.

CO: You would have done it differently.

MD: Yeah.

CO: But one thing that you are using that what you're developing in Guelph for space exploration is extremely useful for Arctic growing — the possibility of growing food on this planet. For those working or living in northern Canada, where you get just as much dark or even more darkness than the far side of the moon. So I mean you know you may not be growing up barley on the moon, but your technology is quite useful, isn't it?

MD: Absolutely. You know it has been a rationale in virtually every research project application that I've written for the last 25 years to both federal and provincial agencies. So when you consider you know the next worst place after a snow bank in Yellowknife has got to be the moon or Mars to try and grow a plant. And the technical solution is identical. So you know in the very short order, I expect to be deploying technical solutions to at least some perishable produce to offset the current air freighting of food into northern communities, and achieve some technical solutions there.

CO: Now, just finally, if you do get to go to space, the moon, Mars, and you get to go grow your barley, do you have a name for your lunar whiskey?

MD: Now there's a good thought. I don't, but I will put that challenge to my core of graduate students and technical group in the research facility in Guelph, and we will come up with a name.

CO: All right, and we'll put it out to our listeners. They can help you find a name for whiskey in space. And it's good to talk to you Professor Dixon, and thank you.

MD: My pleasure.

CO: Bye-bye.

MD: Bye now.

KG: Michael Dixon is the Director of the Controlled Environment Systems Research Facility at the University of Guelph. Today he was in Sherbrooke, Quebec. Tell Talkback what you would name a brand of space Scotch. Leave a voicemail at 416-205-5687. Or email us at aih@cbc.ca. We're also on Facebook and Twitter at: @CBCAsItHappens.

[Music: Folk]

Phone fishing

KG: Luc Lemoine's ice fishing plans on Last Mountain Lake in Saskatchewan likely didn't involve spending a lot of time tethered to his phone. But eventually, it became all about that. And not just for him, but for his buddy, Jason Matity, as well — when Luc dropped his phone into the water. His phone contained the final photos of his late father. Mr. Lemoine and Mr. Matity joined CBC Regina host Stefani Langenegger on the “Morning Edition”, with a full account of their rescue operation.

SOUNDCLIP

LUC LEMOINE: You know, first thing we tried was put a fish hook on the end of a line, and we had cameras down there; we could see it. It's not like we didn't know where it was. We could see it laying on the bottom, you know? Which is even more frustrating because now you can just about touch it on the screen it feels like. So we put some big fish hooks on a couple of lines, and tried to drag them across. The case that it was in his kind of leather-covered, so we thought, well you know, if we can get the end of a hook in there, and maybe give it a yank — set the hook — we might be able to just pull it up that way, but no dice. We tried that for an hour or two.

STEFANI LANGENEGGER: so then what do you do, Jason?

JASON MATITY: We spent about three days. We found some plumbing pipe that you could thread together. We need to be able to do this literally in sections — build it, put it down, and then deconstruct it, and pull it up with big ice ladles. And we wanted to have one down there so we could flip the phone into the other or at least…

SL: Kind of like metal hands.

JM: Yeah, exactly. Or at least use it as leverage to flip it into the other one. And that was the plan. So we'd spent six hours at it. And a lot of the time was debating what are we going to do? It's very silty, very muddy. And the more you move the scoops everything gets cloudy down there, you can't see, and let's not bury the phone in silt. First thing we did is buried the phone in silt. You know, so it took like a while.

SL: Because it’s like a golf club that's 30-meters long and the handle in the water.

LL: It’s like trying to flip a light switch with a 30-foot golf club from across the room, right? And it's moving around.

JM: Yeah, it's moving, and you get that water pressure, so it's obviously flexing. And so I get the scoop down, and I'm kind of wiggling it and lifting at the same time because I have to pull it back out of the mud. And then we see it flip over, you know? Just above the all this silt I’m picking up. And so we have to wait like 20 minutes for everything to settle again. And then I get a swipe, and I just kind of get it on the edge, but I'm like I think I got it on enough. So I'm bringing it up, and all of a sudden it slips off the scoop.

SL: Did you want to cry?

LL: Well more how he reacted when he dropped the phone, that's about how I reacted, but worse. That actually proved to me that this could work. And we got it halfway up there. If we did it once, we can do it again.

SL: So then what?

LL: We took the pipes apart brought them back up, put the camera that had the down view on there with duct tape. We would've made Red Green proud. So we are part Red Green and part MacGyver. So we taped the camera with duct tape on there so we had a down view about three feet above the scoop.

SL: And that time you got it on pretty well in the centre?

BOTH: Yeah

SL: How happy were you to see that phone?

LL: I was pretty happy.

JM: It's certainly my best catch of 2019.

KG: Jason Matity and Luc Lemoine speaking with CBC Regina host Stefani Langenegger. After six days in a bucket of rice, Luc was able to retrieve all the photos of his late dad from the phone's SD card.

[Music: Lullaby]

Lonely frog

Guest: Christopher Jordan

KG: He was thought to be the last of his kind: a lonely "Sehuencas water frog" named Romeo, living in a natural history museum without a life partner. In an effort to save the species, scientists scoured the streams and rivers near Cochabamba, Bolivia, in search of a mate, for a decade. Romeo's custodians even put out a dating ad. But to no avail. Now, finally, Romeo may meet his Juliet. And their first date is fraught with expectation. Christopher Jordan is the Tropical Andes Coordinator for Global Wildlife Conservation. We reached him in Bijagua, Costa Rica.

CO: Christopher, when will Romeo get to meet his long-awaited Juliet?

CHRISTOPHER JORDAN: The meeting has not yet happened, and we need to evaluate the best time for this. And really there are a number of factors to consider. And one of the most important is potential exposure to a deadly antivian disease called chytrid. It's a fungus that is caused steep declines in many amphibian populations. So we really need to work with global experts first to understand if these new individuals of Romeo’s species — including Juliet — have been exposed, and if they pose any danger to Romeo. And we need to do the preventative treatment before any encounter takes place just to make sure that we don't have any unfortunate results after the first date.

CO: Well, just for people who are listening, the sound in the background are that of probably quite exotic Costa Rican birds, yes?

CJ: it's actually it's a relative of the North American blue jay. it's a jay species that's flying around in the trees above me.

CO: Lovely. Luck you. Now, what are you hoping will come of this encounter between this male and female that you hope to introduce him to?

CJ: We know that there are likely too few water frogs of this species in the wild for them to retain a viable population. Much of their historical habitat has been destroyed. Their numbers have been badly impacted by invasive trout. They’d eat their eggs. By the same deadly disease I mentioned earlier. So to save the species that the path forward is really going to necessarily include both conservation breeding and field conservation action to mitigate threats and to protect the habitat. So the meeting between these frogs will be to create an insurance population, and create new generations of frogs that can then be reintroduced into the wild at a future date. And that has not yet been determined, and will depend on a number of factors — including the mitigation of those threats in the wild.

CO: And including a bit of romance. I mean so your frog in captivity has been there for a long time in captivity. How are the frogs you have just brought how are they responding to now being in captivity?

CJ: They're responding quite well. They've adapted quite well. And part of that is that we're really careful to replicate the wild conditions. So the quality of water is the same, the temperature of the water is the same, we give them shelter just like they would have in their habitats, and so they acclimate pretty quickly as long as we're working with partners that are really experts in this and have a lot of experience. And this in museum in Cochabamba, Bolivia has that experience. But there are differences in personality between Romeo and the new frogs — and particularly between Romeo and Juliet. Romeo is very shy. He's been kind of a reluctant star — a reluctant celebrity. A lot of photographers have come and that it takes a long time for them to get a decent photo of Romeo because he just likes to hide under his shelter. But Juliet is very, very active. She's very energetic. She's swimming around her tank. She's she tried to escape the tank a couple of times. So we're really hoping that, in this case that, opposites attract even in frogs. Because they have very, very different personalities.

CO: What's behind this decline in the population of these Sehuencas water frog, as I believe the species is called?

CJ: Primarily, we think that the fungus caused a steep decline about ten years ago of the frog, and this this mirrors patterns in other frogs around the globe where this causes this quick collapse of the population. But in addition to this, really a lot of the habitat has been destroyed by deforestation and by development.

CO: We just recently did a story out of Hawaii of George the snail, who was the last of his species now gone, and the discussion was about how many species have disappeared in Hawaii. It’s becomes a species graveyard. Is it the same situation in Bolivia, in the jungles of Bolivia and the rainforest? Are we seeing the species disappear?

CJ: Well, unfortunately, it's this case globally, you know? We're in the midst of a sixth mass extinction, and extinction rates are much higher around the globe than they have been historically. ANd I mean historically in a very long time period. So yes, and amphibians in particular have been very hard hit. Lots of amphibian species in Bolivia, across South America, across Central America have gone extinct. But species like Romeo, where we're down for a few individuals, and there are other cases around the world there are these examples that we can have species that are down to a few individuals, and we have the technology, we have the experience, we have methods to bring them back from the brink of extinction. I see Romeo and Juliet as kind of a symbol of hope in this time of mass extinction that we're not too late to save these beautiful aspects of our ecosystems and of our planet.

CO: We've also interviewed scientists who've criticized this idea, saying that without a critical mass, without a very large gene pool of a species that people are deluding themselves to think that you can bring a species back. You just have a few remaining members of these Sehuencas frogs, is that the case?

CJ: But actually we have an emergency plan and if we didn't find any more: create an insurance population of the species just from one individual. We have the technology to do it. I don't know, in my mind, the investment is worth it to bring such a beautiful species back. The DNA contains millions and millions of years of evolution. And it's something really, really special. And if we can prevent this extinction, I think it's worth it to keep this beauty in the world, and to keep this this intrinsic value that these species have.

CO: The names Romeo and Juliet may be unfortunately chosen, given the fate that those two characters met. But what hopes do you have of seeing this couple actually produce offspring?

CJ: Our first attempt will be to have this happen naturally — just let them mingle, and see how they behave. But, of course, there are also a host of assisted reproductive technologies that we could use to create a population of these individuals. And it also is worth highlighting I think that we don't just have Romeo and Juliet. We did find three additional males during these expeditions and additional female. So we have a total of six frogs now and not just one, which increases our hope because, as you mentioned, Romeo has been alone for very long. He's been in captivity for ten years. So these additional individuals give us a bit more flexibility — both genetically and in terms of reproductive behaviour.

CO: All right. Well, it's good to talk to you, and hear this story. Christopher, thank you.

CJ: Sure, thanks for taking the time.

KG: Christopher Jordan is the Tropical Andes coordinator for Global Wildlife Conservation. We reached him in Bijagua, Costa Rica. And we have more on this story — including pictures of Romeo, on our webpage: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Guitar]

KG: Corey Hart gave up the pop star life a long time ago. But it's not surprising that he's back. Because he didn't give up period. He couldn't. He's the guy who sang "Never Surrender". Today, the Canadian Music Hall of Fame announced that Mr. Hart will be its latest inductee at the Juno Awards in March. The honour comes on the same day that he released his first single in two decades. Today, the singer -- whose '80s hits included "It Ain't Enough", and "Sunglasses At Night", and whose hair is still awesome -- spoke to Tom Power on "q". He said he'd decided to step away from the spotlight to be there for his kids. But now that they're older, he'll be heading out on tour again this summer to promote his latest album. Judging from the video for his new single, he's surrendered his trademark sunglasses. But, not to worry, the hair gel and the pout remain intact.

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January 16, 2019 episode transcript

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