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The Current Transcript for January 16, 2019

Host: Anna Maria Tremonti

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

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DISPATCHER: [Unintelligible] Just use caution.

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Fatal sniper bullet was 'only solution' to end 2004 Union Station standoff, negotiator says

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: Hello I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and this is The Current. Today we continue our week-long series, One Bullet, a CBC investigation into the impact of gun violence in our country. One Bullet, One Person at a Time.

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VOICE 1: We could just hear the noise. It just went up. And he just stood there looking at me. And I remember thinking did it really go off? Did it really happen?

VOICE 2: You know, did it go and injure his spinal cord? Will this patient be able to walk?

VOICE 3: I'm in total shock that I did. It was emotional but it was also the first step to getting real help.

AMT: Those raw personal stories continue today and in half an hour we will go to the UK and Ireland for a look at how yesterday's Brexit defeat will affect people on both sides of the debate and at the border. But we're beginning with another story from our One Bullet series, about a rare kind of shooting. In fact it's believed to be the first of its kind in this country. A shocking incident that many Canadians have never actually heard about. It's something police train for every day and it involves one bullet that no officer wants to have to fire. And just a warning, our documentary will be disturbing for some. Here is our documentary editor Joan Webber with The Solution.

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JOAN WEBBER: There are days in every person's life which can be recalled in vivid, sometimes excruciating detail, minutiae made acute by circumstance; what you were wearing, the sound of a single bird, the humidity on your skin. August 25th, 2004 is that day for the people you're about to hear from.

NEWSCASTER: The temperature outside is 19 degrees. We see that going up to 28 today, becoming Cloudy with a 40 percent chance of showers this afternoon and a risk of thunders.

JOAN WEBBER: It's already a steamy Monday morning in Canada's biggest city. And it's not even eight a.m. Thousands of people jostling one another as they head in or out of Union Station, the commuter hub of downtown Toronto.

[Dispatcher]

JOAN WEBBER: Unbeknown to any of them, nearby an attack is taking place in a food court. A man who has just fired several shots at his estranged wife, narrowly missing. In a black and white security video, the woman runs into frame. She's being pursued by a large man with long untucked shirt as she sprints down a hallway. She looks over her shoulder as the man is closing the gap. She trips and falls sliding along the polished floor. The man then begins beating her with the end of his gun. He is Sugston Anthony Brookes. In his mid-forties. He has a long history of domestic violence.

DISPATCHER: [Unintelligible] Is there any description?

OFFICER: There is no description. Just multiple...

JOAN WEBBER: He lingers over her motionless body before fleeing back toward the security camera and out of frame.

OFFICER: The only description so far is a male, black, 30 to 40 years, heavy built, wearing a green shirt...

JOAN WEBBER: That officers seeking a description is about to come face to face with Brookes. At about this time Toronto police's Emergency Task Force is getting word that shots have been fired downtown. And they're being called in.

TOM SHARKY: Well the information we received initially was that a woman had been shot by a...

JOAN WEBBER: Former Vietnam vet Tom Sharkey's the sergeant in charge. He's been with the Toronto Police Force for 30 years, and as his team readies to leave...

TOM SHARKY: We started to receive more information that a police cancelable had confronted the man and chased the man down towards Front Street.

ANGELA NAUS: I remember that day. It's funny the things that I remember and the things I don't remember. Like I remember where I sat on the assignment desk. I remember that I had an extra large Starbucks coffee. I remember what I was wearing.

JOAN WEBBER: Angela Naus is a producer with CBC television'.

ANGELA NAUS: The newsroom in August, as you know, can be quite quiet.

JOAN WEBBER: 14 years ago she was working for Newsworld, the name then of the corporation's 24 hour news channel. One of her bosses has a request.

ANGELA NAUS: He said there's something going down downtown. Can you go over and check it out for us?

JOAN WEBBER: What no one could have predicted was that a confluence of events was about to turn this regular workday into a dramatic life and death police standoff. Among the Toronto commuters is a young woman on her way to work. It's the last day of a summer internship at a bank downtown. She's put on a pink top for the occasion; jeans white, sneakers in March gold hoop earrings. Just 20 years old she has no reason to suspect she's in imminent danger. But the armed man, Sugston Anthony Brookes, who's running away from a police officer, is heading her way. It's when he arrives outside Union Station that he suddenly stops, and in an instant randomly grabs a passer-by. That person is the young intern, Nicole Regis. It's roughly 8:10 a.m.

ANGELA NAUS: As you leave the CBC building, you come out right on Front Street which is the same street that Unions Station's on. And I proceeded towards Union Station as people were coming, walking quickly, some were running away from Union Station, at which point I went, "Oh. Something is really going on". The one thing in the moment that I recall, thinking this is like it's out of a movie. I hate to say that's a cliché, but it literally, even when I was making my way down Front Street toward Union Station, seeing men with guns drawn on the corners of buildings. It could have been out of like an episode of, CSI or anyone of those sorts of cop shows.

[Dispatcher]

TOM SHARKY: There were literally thousands of people on the street. All the streets east and west of the station seemed to be just jammed with a huge number of people with officers trying to keep them back.

JOAN WEBBER: Heidi Laverick is in a rush to get to work. She's got a meaning to make but when she leaves Union Station she knows instantly something isn't right.

HEIDI LAVERICK: When I walked out I could see a number of police cars and policemen under the cars. And I saw a man holding a lady at gunpoint with a gun pointed to her head. It took a bit to register. So I felt very shocked. There is a door at the Royal York that's on the west side of the building, and I went in that door, knowing that if I could get up on a higher floor at the Royal York I could get a nice advantage point looking down into the square public area that's in front of Union Station.

TOM SHARKY: As I ran up to where my team leader was, they found a position maybe 40 feet from where the man was hauling a hostage. And then I proceeded to try and communicate with the person.

JOAN WEBBER: Police video from that day shows Brookes holding Nicole Regis tight to his body.

TOM SHARKY: Look like a middle aged, heavyset man, with his arm around the 20 year old lady, had her arm around her neck .And he had a sawed off rifle held to her head.

[Dispatcher]

JOAN WEBBER: Despite the grainy footage I can see his hairline is receding just a bit. He's kind of hunched over her using her as a shield. Nicole Regis has a long black hair pulled back tightly in a low ponytail. Her chin is down, as are her eyes. She looks fragile. From her vantage point, in an empty conference room, in the Royal York Hotel Angela Naus can see Regis and Brookes clearly. And like the multitude of media drawn to this event, she's about to broadcast this hostage taking life.

ANCHOR: Will bring us up to date, if you can. What is happening there?

REPORTER: Hi. Here is what I can tell you...

ANGELA NAUS: I ended up being put on air. I was a young producer, I never been on air before. And just before they had latched me in, the producer in the control room said just tell us what you see.

ANGELA NAUS: [Reporting] A man who has a woman as a hostage is there and the gun in his right hand and he has his arm around her neck.

HEIDI LAVERICK: I remember the woman not making much sound, aside from crying. She just seemed very calm. It looked surreal because I thought to myself if I were being held hostage I think I would be in a different frame of panicking or something. I don't know just how calm I`d be. The man that was holding her didn't look so calm you know. He seemed to be looking around. He seemed like off kilter I guess just, I don't know. Not controlled really.

ANGELA NAUS: We cracked the wind a bit and I could hear the negotiator.

ANGELA NAUS: [Reporting] The negotiator is not that far from him, maybe 30 feet from him, has been talking to him telling him to put down the gun. There is no talking going on right now.

JOAN WEBBER: The hostage negotiator is Sergeant Tom Sharkey. He's done hundreds of calls but this one will prove to be a remarkable challenge. In footage from that day Sergeant Sharkey standing just to the left of a concrete pillar, a Via Rail sign just outside the station. Its cover if you need it. He's in a police flak jacket and you can see he's leaning forward to talk to Brookes.

TOM SHARKY: You want to establish rapport with the person. You want establish communication with the person. I didn't wear a helmet. I wore a soft cap. It creates less of an imposing threat to a person. I tried to talk to him. Basically I showed him I had no weapons in my hand. All I had in my hand was a radio. Basically said we want to help him. Advised him we want to resolve this thing peacefully. Would you please speak to me and I followed that particular route for a long time.

HEIDI LAVERICK: I was probably one of the last people to get out those doors and to be walking in into what I was walking into because when I turned around. There didn't seem to be any barrier around me much so I wondered where everybody else was. It was actually pretty scary. I felt kind of sick when I realised it was real because then I thought 'oh my God like I can't go further walking closer I need to ran back and they had locked the doors at Union Station. So they had to reopen them. They had security there to open them to let me back in. So it was a really panicky feeling.

TOM SHARKY: Early in the call I began to get a really bad feeling because one of my trained snipers was on holidays at that time and Gordon Lusby was at the station. It was his turn to do what we call station duty. Gordon Lusby was a phenomenal shot. He was a very experienced tackle officer and very cool, very steady guy. We had talked so much respect for and confidence in his abilities.

[Dispatcher]

TOM SHARKY: Basically I ask my team leader to get on the air and get Gordon down there, because I need another option if he started shooting or if I felt he was going to try and kill the lady this type of thing, and I was unable to resolve it by talking.

ANGELA NAUS: I remember looking out and trying to see where other police were situated with guns. I'd spent time in the US. And you know you expect that they're getting into position somehow resolve this incident, right, so.

[Dispatcher]

JOAN WEBBER: Some time after about three snipers Gordon Lusby is trying to get into place. Members of the team are directing him.

TOM SHARKY: He only said one thing I kept trying to get him to talk, trying to get him to talk. And all he said to me was - also in passionate type of voice - if you want to speak to me come here.

[Dispatcher]

TOM SHARKY: A solution it would mean, if it was absolutely necessary, if we had to use lethal force to resolve the situation, we had that option.

[Dispatcher]

JOAN WEBBER: The sniper also known as the Sierra unit finds a location where he has what's known as a 100 per cent solution.

TOM SHARKY: The way that our snipers are trained, basically headshot, the incapacitation rate would be almost instantaneous. But there is always that remote possibility of a reflex action. So say that gun was point at the young lady's head, is always a potential threat to a gun could discharge and kill the hostage. Making that call I was darn sure I didn't want that gun point at the young lady if I had to make that call.

ANGELA NAUS: Their hostage taker was becoming more and more agitated as the negotiators were trying to talk him down into putting his gun down or at least to release the woman.

[Dispatcher]

TOM SHARKY: He kept basically putting the gun on the girl's shoulder and he was aiming at me or aiming at my co-workers who were diving down behind cover. And I felt that at any point he was going open up on us. I know some of the [unintelligible] later [unintelligible] and some of the other fellows on scene commented how silent the actual thing was while I was talking. You could hear birds flapping their wings. It was somewhat bizarre. Downtown, tens of thousands of people, and yet there was almost total silence. The suspense was going on. When I finally reached a decision when one point, where he was pointing a gun at me, I knew the gun wasn't pointed at the young lady. I knew I had a [unintelligible] unit in place. Basically I gave the order for the [unintelligible] unit Gordon to neutralize the threat. Because I felt that was the only solution that was going to prevent somebody from being killed.

[Gun shot]

JOAN WEBBER: You can see on the police video the moment of impact. Sugston Anthony Brookes dropped straight down. Nicole Regis balls sideways. Then she crouches and her left hand goes instinctively to her ear. She runs. Sergeant Sharkey rushes to her side to get her as far from the dead man as possible. But it already seems obvious. She'll never be able to get far enough away.

TOM SHARKY: My only real contact was I grabbed her right after the shot was fired. I ran her over to a divisional officer who, they later they took her right to an ambulance to look around after.

ANGELA NAUS: That was on air and they had gone back to the anchor. And they had started to pull my microphone down. And when they shot him I was likely, "Holly shit they shot him. They shot him". At which point someone in the control room heard me and they opened my mike and they put me back on air.

ANGELA NAUS: [Reporting] Gary, are you still there.

ANCHOR: Yes I am.

ANGELA NAUS: [Reporting] They have taken him down. He's been shot in the head. The hostage is away from you.

ANGELA NAUS: You know you get a little bit stunned. Like what? They really did. They really shot him. You know what I remember? I remember what it looks like when your brains are blown out of your head. I never would have imagined.

TOM SHARKY: You realise through your training and through your experience you are going to have to make calls that could be potentially lethal calls. You have to accept their responsibility. Is it easier to make their call? No, because you have to insured's both legal and it's ethical, if you make that call, it's moral.

HEIDI LAVERICK: It makes you realise how fast things can unfold. And I think we need to appreciate every day that we have here.

TOM SHARKY: I had so much respect for that young lady, how cool she was, how calm she was. And at the end of the situation how much trauma she must have gone through, having a guy holding a gun to her head for an hour. And then having his head blown off right beside her. That must be phenomenal trauma for any human being.

JOAN WEBBER: I did talk briefly with Nicole Regis. She didn't say very much except that she would consider speaking with me on tape. But perhaps understandably I haven't heard from her again.

HEIDI LAVERICK: After it happened I thought about the police officer in a sense that must have been an awful position to be in, to be ordered to do that and to pull the trigger.

TOM SHARKY: I do believe it did affect Gordon for a while and you know he had a hard time sleeping in it did affect him.

JOAN WEBBER: I spoke with Constable Gordon Lusby about that day. He's still with the Toronto Police Force and these days he trains other officers. He didn't want to do a recorded interview, but he told me I could share what we talked about. He says that in the aftermath it bothered him that it bothered him. As a sniper, he'd trained every day for just such an emergency. But he's come to believe we're not wired to kill people. For days afterwards he was sleepless. Then he had nightmares. He kept looking down the scope of his gun at the head not proxies, but at someone else's. And though he's fine now, Constable Lusby told me that that day will always be with him. As it will in a different way for former Sergeant Tom Sharkey.

TOM SHARKY: I think what did affect me later was questioning myself. I've done all these calls. I was able to resolve by talking people down. We did one, not maybe one where we dealt with the guy who shot at his wife trying to go to a police station. And I had to talk this guy down with a gun to his head. This was the only situation of all the calls I'd done. I was not able to resolve it either by talking to a person or using less lethal options. I hope the young lady involved in this thing, who I had a phenomenal amount of respect from that day is recovered from this and is enjoying enjoying a good life. Basically I think Gordy has turned out pretty good. I think he's certainly recovered and he's gone I believe back to the good old Gordy. And I guess, after so many years in police work and early years in the military, I think the impact of a single bullet can have phenomenal effect. I think many police officers who have committed suicide or gone to alcoholism and stuff like that because of the PTSD that's involved there a shooting situation. So whether you're the one actually shooting, you are the victim of the bullet, the families of both of those type of parties, it has a phenomenal effect on them. Unfortunately in many cases it's a very tragic effect.

AMT: We have been listening to The Solution. It was produced by The Current documentary editor Joan Webber and producer Jessica Linzey. They are the co-producers of our One Bullet series this week. And there's an end note to the story we just heard. As is routine after cases of police shootings, Ontario's special investigations unit was called in to investigate. The unit concluded that sniper Gordon Lusby quote "had no alternative but to shoot Sugston Anthony Brookes". The investigation also discovered that the weapon Brookes held had jammed earlier that morning after he fired it at his estranged wife, who survived the ordeal. Our series One Bullet, a CBC investigation into the impact of gun violence in our country: One Bullet One Person at a Time, continues through the week. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti this is The Current.

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'Dark times ahead,' but Brexit will be worth it in the long term, says financier

Guests: Jo ELgarf, Verona Murphy, Luke Morris

AMT: Hello I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to The Current.

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AMT: Still to come, some inspiration on ice for anyone who thinks their glory days are behind them.

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I got news skates at age 73. Some women our age can't get off the toilet without help.

AMT: She is just one of the mature skaters featured in a new television documentary about a group of women are determined to get To the Worlds. We'll hear more from them in about half an hour. But first veering off the Brexit ramp.

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Every day that passes without this issue being resolved means more uncertainty, more bitterness, and more rancor. The Governments has heard what the House has said tonight, but I ask members on all sides of the house to listen to the British people who want this issue settled, and to work with the government to do just that.

AMT: So there are 10 weeks to go until the United Kingdom's divorce with the European Union goes through. That was the Prime Minister Teresa May, once again, without a plan after a crushing defeat yesterday. British lawmakers voted overwhelmingly against the agreement she had negotiated with the EU, despite this rousing speech from her fellow conservative Geoffrey Cox, before the vote.

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What are you playing at? What are you doing? We are not children in the playground. We are playing with people's lives.

AMT: The next chapter in this saga is far from clear. So we're going to spend a little bit of time today hearing how people's lives stand to be affected. Jo Elgarf helps run a Facebook group called 48% Preppers. It is made to help people prepare for a no deal Brexit and she joins us from South West London. Hello.

JO ELGARF: Hi. Hi. Nice to speak to you.

AMT: What are you thinking after that vote?

JO ELGARF: It's nothing come out as a surprise. This is all being heating up. Just more and more concerned for the reasons that they just said, there is no preparation. We have no idea. It's no longer about leave or remains or anything like that for the normal people. It's what does 'no deal' mean and a lot of us are starting to think that 'no deal' could have major consequences for us day today.

AMT: So in your case, what are you most worried about, Jo?

JO ELGARF: O of the most important is epilepsy meds for my daughter which are all imported from the EU. And the reason why I am worried about those is the same reason why lots of people are starting to worry about food and goods coming through. Our government haven't prepared to pour into where most of our food is imported. About 50 per cent of our food, a lot of medicines are imported. And as of the 30th of March at 11 o'clock we're going to have massive hard border put right the way around this country. And the way that we import goods will dramatically change overnight. We will be only trading under WTO rules with the whole world, including yourself.

AMT: So tell me a little bit more. How old is your daughter?

JO ELGARF: My daughter, she's five on Tuesday. She's got severe cerebral palsy. She can't sit, walk or talk. She has severe epilepsy. She's very well managed at the moment with several different drugs including Epilim and Keppra but we can't stockpile those meds. So whilst I'm telling people make sure you have some spare food in different bits in your cupboard, I can't do that with her drugs. The way that the UK works is we have to have everything on prescription. The maxim I may ever have is one month. Now if those are held up in lorries coming into this country what do I do? And I can switch drugs for her. And what would happen would be catastrophic. We're talking about a little girl that could have endless seizures or actually even worse than that. It could be life threatening for her.

AMT: So all those drugs, they're manufactured in Europe?

JO ELGARF: Yes. So their manufactured [unintelligible] in Belgium. They are not kept in the pharmacy. They have to be special ordered into the pharmacy. And we can't switch them for another medicine. So I can't say, oh, I've got no Keppra. I'll use more Epilim. It doesn't work like that at all.

AMT: What are her doctors telling you?

JO ELGARF: Not a lot. And this is the problem; nobody in this country knows what comes next. Everybody saying it should be okay. And they are stockpiling. So not the government, the government are not stockpiling. The governments have other suppliers to stockpile but suppliers only have so much cash flow. There's only so much they can stockpile. Luckily my daughter's meds aren't short life but some medicines are short life like insulin. And in the group we're seeing more and more people worried about 'I can't go without my medicine for one or two days'. So we're in a right mess.

AMT: Yes. What else are you hearing from your group? What are people doing?

JO ELGARF: Generally people-- so what we say to people it is not doomsday scenario, nothing like that. What we're saying is look you may have shortages. Lorries may take six days to get through rather than-- at the moment the steps for illegal immigrant drug that type of thing. Every single lorry can have to be fully checked once we have our border go up. And so we're saying to people whatever you normally eat just to make sure that you've got that. A bit like the frozen north of Canada once you get snow. It's that type of don't go into this with empty cupboard; go into it with full cupboard. Also stockpile things like washing liquid, over-the-counter medicines, Paracetamol. Be sensible. We have no idea what's ahead of us. And this applies to whether or not you voted leave, remain, anybody. This is going to go away. What's worse is nobody seems to have a plan.

AMT: You know there are people who say that stockpiling is really a form of fear mongering. What do you say to that?

JO ELGARF: It depends how you approach it. What we're saying to people is just be sensible make sure you have supplies in. These are cold hard facts. We are having our border put up. We are going under WTO rules. WTO rules means tariff and it means everything being checked. It's not fear mongering. It's all a fact. You know that's the way it's worked.

AMT: So when you say that vote yesterday, what are you thinking about your politicians right now?

JO ELGARF: I just wanted them to get a grip and remember that there's actually people behind the first. It's all well and good but what if-- You know they might shout at each other. They're playing games and they need to stop. Sit down and just start remembering that first actually people in this country that are suddenly waking up to the fact that they're playing with our lives.

AMT: So it's less about whether you stay or leave but it's more about how they finesse this now then. Is that what you're saying?

JO ELGARF: Don't get me wrong. I'd love to stay. Ultimately I'd love to stay. I don't actually understand why we're leaving. But it's gone past that now. If we are leaving, how are we going to leave? And is there a plan and-- Had this been two years ago and there was a plan in place and our massive ports had got all rebuilt and everything had been put in place, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you. But there had been no-- [Unintelligible] port takes in most of our supplies every day. Nothing's changed.

AMT: Too much on a certain way, yes.

JO ELGARF: The certainly here is beyond crazy now. There's just no certainty about what's going to happen next. Nobody knows.

AMT: It's good to hear what you have to say. Thank you for speaking with me, Jo.

JO ELGARF: Thank you. Thank you very much.

AMT: Bye bye.

JO ELGARF: Bye.

AMT: That is Joe Algarf. She helps administer Brexit Facebook group called 48 % Preppers. She's in London, England. Many people share her worries about shortages, so many that Brexit prepping has become a business. James Blake is the owner of a company called Emergency Food Storage UK. He sells so-called Brexit Boxes.

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So the box itself contains tins of freeze dried food, a water filter and a fire starter. So if you add those together you get over a hundred meals in the box. It's just basically like a food insurance. And people are generally purchasing because they're concerned about Brexit.

AMT: So how concerned should people be enough to stock up on freeze dried food and water filters. We've read someone who plays a key role in the food supply change. Vorona Murphy is president of the Irish Road Haulage Association. She runs her own trucking business. It is Drumur Transport Ltd and she is in Dublin, Ireland. Hello.

VERONA MURPHY: Hi Anna Maria.

AMT: What do you think after yesterday's vote? Do you think people in Britain should be buying up Brexit Boxes?

LUKE MORRIS: I'm not sure about the Brexit Boxes but certainly there's going to be changes. It will be catastrophic if there is a no-deal Brexit. I'm not so sure there will be a no-deal Brexit. I think the positive from last night's vote is that the markets actually rallied, and I think that's a positive sign that we may be heading for either a deal that may be different to the deal that was on the table, or a referendum containing the question is whether or not to accept the deal or to remain. And I think if there was a referendum voting that question to the people, because Betty Boothroyd - a former MP and a longstanding peer of Westminster - herself has said that the people of Britain were hoodwinked by flawed information that was presented to the young people of Britain, and that they were stripped of their rights under whim of people who peddled rubbish in a referendum, and that they are now afraid to have to be challenged again. And I think that sums up Brexit; something that should never have happened. I think I feel so very very sorry for your previous caller Jo because I think her child could end up being the collateral damage of something that's so unnecessary.

AMT: So we've been looking at Brexit and what it means for Britain. What will it mean for Ireland do you think?

LUKE MORRIS: Well it would be catastrophic also. I mean at the end of the day I'm not sure that the British people understand how expensive everything will become. For instance because we are effectively one country within the EU structure, there is no VAT - value added tax - applied to services. But once Britain becomes a third country every other country in the EU will apply VAT, and it's not something that will be easily retained. So you've got an increase from an Irish service haulier of 23 percent. It'll make us anti-competitive of course but also on the basis that only three percent of UK hauliers actually carry out road transport outside of Britain. It will make us very expensive even that even if a little anti-competitive. There lots of things like that, that people haven't thought of and that they don't understand. They think they'll be able to go it alone and they will. But it will be a very expensive process. I'm not sure how long that the lower income earners will be able to sustain this, because the fraud that will come in - whether with or without tariffs - for instance Ireland exports probably 40 to 50 percent of its beef product to the UK. That means that's a substantial amount of beef in the UK market. Would that go, with the WTO tariffs, that may increase by as much as 40 percent.

AMT: So let me ask you Verona, what are you trucking into Britain?

VERONA MURPHY: At the moment when I truck, I truck from Ireland directly to Italy. But quite often I'd take chocolate from Italy to the UK, and that would be a brand like Ferrero Rocher, a luxury brand. But often I can take kiwifruit, peaches, summer produce, seasonal produce but it can vary. They can be absolutely anything; washing machines, white goods.

AMT: Let me just ask you though. You go from Ireland. What's the route?

VERONA MURPHY: That's the whole point. It's a land bridge route of the fastest route and this is what we in Ireland need to safeguard most. We transit the UK on a land bridge. So we go from our island to one of the Welsh ports, either Holyhead Fish guard or Pembroke, and we then transit the UK to another destination port that will take us to mainland Europe. The busiest and the most frequently used would be Dover over to [unintelligible] in France, or Folkestone which is the little shuttle train and that takes you all to Kelly. That is the fastest most economic route.

AMT: If you do that with new border is what does that mean to your time?

VERONA MURPHY: Well it can be catastrophic because obviously as a rule for a whole year I am heavily regulated under the tachygraphy regulations which that's the regulation that determines how long a driver can drive the vehicle for and it doesn't mean that just because I'm stopped by customs then when they're finished with me, I can actually drive. It quite often will turn out that the truck will have to stay where it is. So it can cause, something of this nature, could impose as much as a 24 hour delay on this and that will be catastrophic for the Irish exports.

AMT: So what are you doing with this uncertainty? How are you running your business? How it is affecting your business?

VERONA MURPHY: Well at the moment business has been affected if we are working with UK customers because of the Sterling fluctuation, whereby I might actually do a load for a certain rate but by the time I get paid it may have lost a percentage of the value, based on everything that's happening. And some of our members here in the IRHA have lost as much as 20 percent of their business, as well as the value, based on working solely in the UK. But equally it's making things more expensive as we stand because we have a driver shortage and we've got to make up for their currency fluctuation. So we are overpricing on the basis of trying to counteract the sterling fluctuation. I would expect that if Brexit happens everything about Ireland is going to become more expensive just like Britain unfortunately.

AMT: Verona, it is so important here your voice. Thank you for speaking with me today.

VERONA MURPHY: Thank you very much, Anna Maria.

AMT: Verona Murphy, President of the Irish Road Haulage Association. She runs around trucking business. It's Drumur Transport Ltd and we reached her in Dublin. Well for those have been supporting Brexit all along, yesterday's historic defeat of the deal was met with mixed emotions. Luke Morris is a partner and head of corporate finance at Scrutton Bland, a UK financial services business. He campaigned in favour of Brexit. He joins us from Cambridge, England. Hello.

LUKE MORRIS: Good morning, Anna Maria.

AMT: You just heard those concerns from Verona Murphy and Jo Elgarf. What were you thinking as you listen to them?

LUKE MORRIS: Well I think the one thing that we're all united on is total lack of confidence in a government that's failed over the last two years. Certainly the first caller talking about the slow time it's taken for our government to prepare for always the possibility of a no-deal outcome. And the second caller obviously talking about her specific industry. It's definitely unprecedented times. This is the first time in history - I donèt know how long parliament has been in existence - but it's the first time in history that a sitting government has been defeated by such a huge margin. But you know we're not in normal times at the moment because in normal times there would be effective opposition party in the parliament. In normal times, the prime minister would resign. And the reason for that, the reason were not in normal times, is because this whole debate has divided our country in a way we've never seen before. It's the old red and blue of Labour and Tory, right and left. It looks more like a Rubik's Cube now. It's all mixed up with this whole division over Brexit.

AMT: Well I got to tell you the view from here looks like that you are all divided, but the one thing you are united in is understanding the uncertainty is so huge right now. You are all saying that right now, huh?

LUKE MORRIS: I think that's the nub of it, Anna Maria, because your first two callers have a view on uncertainty and perhaps other people who are more on the Brexit side have a different view on uncertainty. I've been in business for 25 years. I don't remember a time that was certain. Business is based on dealing with uncertainty and getting through uncertainty. And for sure the short term future of the UK is uncertain and unpredictable and I suspect we've got some dark clouds ahead in the short term, but a lot of us really believe this is about a lot more than the economy and certainty in business. It's about something fundamental principles that we think in the longer term will leave our country in a far better shape for future generations. Really it all comes down to this one word: democracy. It's All always been about democracy.

AMT: How so?

LUKE MORRIS: Well that word means people's voice. And if you look at the development of the EU over the last 30 or so years, we have a flag and an anthem. We have two parliaments, legislature, judiciary, a current [cutting]. We have four freedoms, goods services capital and labor. And until 2016 nobody in this country was asked if they wanted any of that stuff, if they wanted the trappings of a state. I mean it's very much the same. An analogy perhaps would be if Canada and the United States formed a union and Canadian people didn't have a choice on that decision. I lived in Canada for a year and I remember some great things like Tim Horton's coffee and [cutting] and all things [Cross talking]

AMT: Okay well let's stick to the EU in Britain just because North America is a giant place and there many countries involved here. So tell how Brexit would be good for your financial services company?

LUKE MORRIS: Well it's not just about me.

AMT: But I want to know about you.

LUKE MORRIS: Well it really doesn't make a great deal of difference for me because a large part of my business is internal to the United Kingdom, and indeed the EU. I provide services, my business provide services in the EU, does not have a common market for services indeed, that's what Theresa May's deal; was trying to trade away. It's one of the reasons that people were so against it because the UK broadly imports goods and exports services. Fundamentally, what would be good about Brexit is that it allows our country to be outside of a protectionist customs union, which is largely the result of agricultural tariffs in the 1950s that has become what they have today and kind of the scope of those has crept. That allows us to trade with the rest of the world in a way that we can't, at the moment, as a country because we have tariffs for imports outside of the EU, that are applied to those goods and that's why we drive diesel.

AMT: Okay I to go back to your company, though. I want to go back to your company if I may. So what does a no-deal Brexit, if you get a no-deal Brexit at the end of March, how does that affect you? How does it affect you and your company?

LUKE MORRIS: Well in the short term the becomes would be that there would be a lower pool, a smaller pool of labor. So it potentially will make recruitment difficult and so it will make growth difficult, in the short term. But just take labor as an example. That's an example where in the longer term that's, in my view, for the good for our country. Because lots of companies in our country have relied on - wrongly in my view - on cheaper imports of European labor, rather than investing in training development of say UK staff. What that is meant is that we've relied on imported cheaper labor. So that will be a short term hit for me, but in hoping that as an independent democratic country, the parliament can take decisions about how we wish to incentivize companies like mine to spend more money on training local UK nationals for example to do the work.

AMT: And so there is no confidence vote later today facing your prime minister. Well what are you hoping to come out of parliament today?

LUKE MORRIS: Well I think what will come out of Parliament is that Theresa May will win that vote. So this perverse situation where you have the worst prime minister, in my living memory, who has had the biggest defeat in the history of Parliament will nonetheless win a confidence vote because of the ineffective and divided opposition, that we have in our parliament at this moment in time. So I think she'll win that vote. I think that probably makes the likelihood of a no-deal Brexit more likely. Indeed that's what President Macron has said this morning because the alternatives- what are the alternatives the alternatives? The EU has said that the deal is not up for renegotiation in any way were too far up against the deadline of the 29th of March now to renegotiate that deal, even if they were to renegotiated. In order to extend the Article 50 that the time we have to renegotiate that requires the approval of all 27 of the other EU countries. They're not going to do that because they're going to want to trade [Cross talking] either we will remain or we will leave it okay. That's what will happen.

AMT: Okay well we'll leave it there. Thanks for talking to me.

LUKE MORRIS: Thank you.

Luke Morris partner, head of corporate finance at a UK financial services business. It's called Scrutton Bland. He joined us from Cambridge, England. Stay with us. In our next half hour, we're going to Canada, BC. Kelowna To the World's; how a group of adult female figure skaters from B.C. made their unlikely dreams come true. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti. This is The Current.

[Music: Theme]

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From 46 to 77 years old, these women are defying age to pursue a figure skating dream

Guests: Wendy Ord, Henrietta Penney

AMT: Hello I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

[Laughter]

FEMALE VOICE 1: I would wear this as a wedding dress if I he ever asks.

[Laughter]

FEMALE VOICE 1: Karen. I think you should try this on.

FEMALE VOICE 2: Eww.

FEMALE VOICE 3: So ugly.

FEMALE VOICE 1: Oh! [Laughs]

FEMALE VOICE 2: It's 14.99.

AMT: On a trip to a local thrift shop in Kelowna. We're listening in to some women having some fun combing through the racks of dresses. They are not just looking for a bargain. They're looking for special outfits; something that could propel them under the world stage of competitive figure skating. They've got their sights set on the 2018 adult figure skating competition in Germany. And, yes, they're mature figure skaters. They range in age from 46 to 77. They're featured in a new documentary called To the Worlds, another category on just who came up with the idea of trying to get To the Worlds in the first place.

SOUNDCLIP

FEMALE VOICE 1: Germany. That was totally Wendy's idea.

FEMALE VOICE 2: Karen is funny because she was the one who taught all of us into doing it.

FEMALE VOICE 3: Karen had been relentless and bugging me. So finally I. caved in and said, "Okay. I'll do it."

FEMALE VOICE 1: That. I think it was Donna Bergmundson's secret wish and dream. We conquered Canadians. Now what do we do? We're going to go to the worlds, Ladies.

AMT: Getting to the worlds wasn't quite as simple as that. It took months and months of training, injuries, flared tempers, even to borrow a cliché you hear too often in relation to sports: some heartbreak. 59 year old Wendy Ord is one of the women in the group. She also happens to be a filmmaker and so she has chronicled the entire journey for a film that airs this Friday on CBC Television. Wendy is in Kelowna, BC, along with Henrietta Penney. At 77 Henrietta was the oldest person in the group to compete at the Worlds. Hello to you both.

WENDY ORD: Welcome.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Hello.

AMT: Did either of you ever imagine you'd be competing at a World Figure Skating Championship at this point in your life?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: No absolutely not, this is absolutely a surprise to me too.

WENDY ORD: No. Definitely not. I only took up skiing at 50 so I certainly didn't think I'd be on the World Stage Nine years later.

AMT: Did you find the perfect dresses?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Oh yes I did. I got it at the Halloween store. I was so exciting. It was just made for me. It was just standing there. Bright red.

AMT: Well let's talk about how you guys got there. Wendy, so you say you started skating when you were 50?

WENDY ORD: Yes I took up skating well late forties anyway with a bunch of four to six year olds. I really wanted to skate and there was an adult group, so I asked the local children's group if I could join and they eventually let me. Then I got to teenagers and I met a few other crazy old lady skaters and here we are, years later.

WENDY ORD: It's interesting that you didn't skate early because your dad's a skater, isn't he?

WENDY ORD: While my dad was a man of the 50s, you know, you didn't want to skate for my dad. He's a perfectionist. He had four daughters. None of us wanted to skate with him. He was a pair skater. He wanted someone to skate where. We lived in the middle of nowhere and so he was looking for a partner. We were like, "No dad that's just too weird. We don't want to skate with our dad."

AMT: Henrietta, how did you come to competitive adult figure skating?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Well I skated sort of public skating you know to go around. And then I went back to school when I was 40, and then I studied for about 12 years so I didn't have a chance to skate at all. And then I got my career as a paper analyst and I was very busy, working with show, with artisans. So I didn't skate again. And then after a while, when things sort of settled down and I had a bit of time, I thought, "I think [unintelligible] down the rink". So I went back down, did some skating, you know, just around and around the public sessions. And at that point Donna saw me up there and said, "Why don't you come with us?" I said, "Who are you?" She said, "Well we're the group of ladies and we do some skating. Some on out." She said, "You've got some good rhythm. Maybe you can skate with us." So I went and, golly, they welcomed me in all my uniqueness. They loved it and I loved them.

AMT: Well before we get to the group, Henrietta you have to tell me a little bit more because you're kind of I guess like a late bloomer. You went back to school when you were 40; you're talking high school, right?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Right. Grade nine. Yes.

AMT: And then kept going. How old were you when you got your masters?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Well I got 52. 12 years later. And it's been a bonus. I love it.

AMT: And how old are you now?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: 78 in May.

AMT: So nobody can say they're too old to try anything if they're taking to you.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: That's right.

AMT: Because you're young enough to try everything.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Well, and you get a lot of help from the team members and you know it's really good for your ego.

AMT: So, Wendy, tell us more about the group of women you skate with.

WENDY ORD: Well I also just want to add that Henrietta just took her first ballet class last week. I'm just saying it.

[Laughter]

HENRIETTA PENNEY: They are amazing group of women. They're also different. They all have such great senses of humor. I came home every night for the last three or four years bruised from head to toe and laughing about what had happened at the rink that day. And my life partner and filming partner has been bugging me for years to make a movie about this. Well when they came up with the crazy idea - and it wasn't me - to go to Germany, I thought okay I got to make a movie about this.

AMT: Henrietta, you're doing ballet now? Tell me a little more about why and what your training was like? What would you do to train?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Well if you ever do one of those spirals, you know where you put your foot up in the air? Well my foot wouldn't go up. They wouldn't go up in the air. And I thought oh my gosh now what. So they said on their side, you get the little sly remarks. They say, "Well you know I used to take ballet. So my foot goes up really high". So I'm like okay. My next is ballet then. I guess I have to take ballet. So now I'm stretching around on the floor. Last week is my first time. Well and as my husband said, “Henrietta, you have a lot of [unintelligible] honey, but I don't think you're a ballerina." But I'm working on it.

AMT: So what was your training regime in the months leading up to the world's, Henrietta? What was it like?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Perseverance. Just get out there and try it. Try and lift your leg up, try and do a spin. But there are lots of times I can hardly do any of that but I try real hard. This sport where you can try the same thing a thousand times and never get it, but then sometimes the 1001, oh, just about did one around.

AMT: Wendy how physically demanding is it?

WENDY ORD: It's really physically demanding especially if you're new to the sport like I was, as a old lady. I feel a lot, an awful lot actually. But you know you just get your-- get up, brush yourself off and keep on going. We were training five, sometimes six days a week for an hour. Henrietta and I always leave after 45 minutes because that's all we can handle. But it's very physically demanding, but it's also the only sport where you actually feel like you're flying. So when you get it, it's the most fun ever.

AMT: And you say you fall. You were putting Kevlar patches into your clothing, weren't you, so you'd fall and you get a little bit of padding there.

WENDY ORD: Yes I have what I call my fearless practice pants and they have the same stuff that bulletproof vests are made out of. And I've got pockets in the hips and my tailbone, on my knees, I have elbow pads. Yes I have a lot of clothing on by the time I go skating.

AMT: So you guys were pushing yourself hard on the ice, along with the other women. First of all how many women in the group?

WENDY ORD: Well there's 10 of us altogether. Only six of us actually, well actually eight of us made it To the Worlds.

AMT: And you skate with a woman named Isabella. Let's hear from her.

SOUNDCLIP

I was born in Romania. The same city where Nadia Comaneci was born. And that's how I ended up doing gymnastics when I was a child. The girls who made it to the Olympics and got medals had different status. I was quite brutal. That quote brought. For us it was mandatory that we do a certain amount of time in the army. Well, I learnt a few useful things. I learned hard to combat map. I learnt how to assemble and de-assemble a weapon. If you do something, you should do it well because you use the same amount of time for doing a good thing and a bad thing. So better use your time wisely.

AMT: Wendy tell me more about Isabelle and how she fits into The World's group?

WENDY ORD: Isabella is probably one of our newest members. She recently moved to Kelowna and joined our gang and she is the hardest working member of our group. She is more than any of us, I think, really really focused on winning and doing her very best. We call her the Romanian machine. The rest of us are all over the side joking around, but Isabella is always always working hard. You know now we find out why because she grew up in gymnastic camps and then went to the army and it's in her whole make up. It's who she is.

AMT: It's interesting you didn't know that about right away because when you guys get to the ice, you concentrate on the ice it's not. It's not to do small talk.

WENDY ORD: That's right. I mean really when we got to the rink it's all escape I think from our real lives. And I didn’t know anything about these women until I started making the movie. Skating is our escape. The rink is our escape. And we just talk about skating. Can you do this spin? Can you do that spin? Can you show me how to do this? Put my music on? What dress are you wearing? Its fun.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Many are there to win. I’m there to excel. I’m not as focused on winning a medal or anything, but others are really want to win. And so they love the competition and they thrive on it.

AMT: Well in the lead up to The Worlds, you compete in the national championships in Kelowna. Let's listen to the moment when you took to the ice, Wendy.

SOUNDCLIP

ANNOUNCER: Please welcome Wendy Ord.

[Applause]

[Music]

FEMALE VOICE 1: There was a moment where I'll thougth she's going to stop, she's going to get off right now. She's going to walk away from this.

FEMALE VOICE 2: It was dramatic. It was slightly [unintelligible]. It was good.

ANNOUNCER: The unofficial free program score 9.56.

[Applause]

AMT: Okay, first of all, 9.56, what does that square mean?

WENDY ORD: It's very low. Henrietta got 21.87, Karen got 42 something. It's very low.

AMT: You fell out there. We hear you fall in that clip, don't we?

WENDY ORD: Yes I fell one or two or three times. No one will actually tell me how many times I fell. It was a disaster.

AMT: How did that feel like for you?

WENDY ORD: You know you always kind of dream that you're going to do- Actually you always think you're better than you are. And I was pretty disappointed. I realised that I was a lot further from perfection than I had dreamed.

AMT: But you kept going.

WENDY ORD: Well these ladies you know, they never let you stop. They're like, "Come on you can do it. You've still got two months. We can do it. You can get there. “And off I went back onto the race.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: We competed with other people but mostly we compete against ourselves. So it's like it wasn't a very good performance but I can do better next time.

AMT: And so, Henrietta, after the Nationals it was after on to The World's. What made you decide to do it?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: To go to /the Worlds? I thought why not. You know I'm a global thinker and I think well what an opportunity. You can go. When I saw all of those flags from every country in that arena, that was a moment for me. Here I am here and every country is represented here. So how many times in your lifetime can you actually sit and be part of that. That was so exciting for me. Just the flags, never mind the skating. One of the girls sitting in front of me was from Japan and the one beside me was from Spain and somebody else had a jacket on from China. And I thought oh my gosh why would anybody not go here.

AMT: Even before you get there Wendy, as the training for the world gets more serious, we see that tempers start to fray. How intense did it get?

WENDY ORD: Oh it got intense at moments. I think people, as we got closer and closer we got more nervous, and we were each trying our best and trying to spend as much time as possible with our music on or working out our little tricks. And we also became more focused are in each person. So we were bumping into each other in the face and there was kind of infighting about who got to play their music. So yes it got intense.

AMT: Henrietta do you want to add to that?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Intensity id different for different people. And so as I said I am there to excel and so I didn't notice the intensity quite as much as some of the people who really want their music on. And I kept saying, "Play your music because then I will not have time for mine. I won't have to do that number tonight." So I was happy lots of times. I did some avoidance. Another factor that's really big with us is the music. First of all picking the music. Everyone has such a different take on music. So you're listening to some of the music pieces and it can get really emotional when you're watching them. And so it's a whole field of different kinds of emotions but it's also a great ego builder.

AMT: And did you help each other with the moves on the ice, how you would work out your routines?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Yes we have a lot of feedback on the fact. 'If you would raise your arms a little bit higher, it'll be a lot better in that's spin'. 'Do you realise that your arms aren't parallel'. The one thing for me that's really brought to light is how many parts there are to your body. My gosh. If your head's not right, your foot turned in, your arms... You know. So that's one reason it's really good to skate. You become very aware of all your body parts and how you have to strengthen all of them.

AMT: Do you do all the jumps: the axle, the salchow, the doubles, the triples? What do you do?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Oh my darling. I can hardly turn around.

[Laughter]

HENRIETTA PENNEY: I don't even use those words. They scare me.

AMT: I am using them like I know what I’m talking about.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Yes, good for you.

AMT: We are not so sure about that.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: I would like to refer to it as a [unintelligible] jump. I think its the preliminary one. So, no, I don't do any of those big jumps. So I’m just learning.

AMT: You’re all different that way. Donna who is 61 was a fair bit of...

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Oh yes. Some of them are marvellous.

AMT: And Isabella, show her training with a harness, to do her turns.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Yes, and do the jumps.

AMT: And so in the midst of all this intensity, Wendy, you lighten the mood and arrange for a little extra motivation let's listen to that clip.

SOUNDCLIP

MALE VOICE: Everybody come on in. We've got a little surprise for you.

VOICES: Woo hoo. Yay.

I am here to spread a little bit of luck to all you guys as I know you are heading up to the big competition, and I've seen how hard you worked, seen the great senses of humors you got, and what great group you've become. So on behalf of the rest of Skate World: Good luck.

[Applause]

VOICES: Thank you. Thank you so much. That's so lovely.

MALE VOICE: Bye guys.

VOICES: Buy.

AMT: So when do you get Kurt Browning to call in? How did that happen?

WENDY ORD: Well he somehow sneakily got a hold of some of the footage that we had been filming and we had been on local TV here and stuff. And he got in touch with a gentleman on our team who provides us all with a skates and skates blades and magically it happened.

AMT: What did it mean to you Henrietta, to get that message from Kurt Browning?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Well I was really excited. And I come from a bit of an older school, I've been around a bit longer than the other girls. What really was exciting for me was to see how excited they were, and how it meant so much to them.

WENDY ORD: He was wonderful as well because he also advised us. This was two days before we were getting on the plane and he said you know "Now is the reward not the punishment. So go to the competition and enjoy yourselves".

AMT: Well that was good advice.

WENDY ORD: It was great advice because we were all very nervous at that time.

AMT: And again and we're still on the lead up here and you suffer a setback, Henrietta. What happened to you?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Well I happened to be going backwards and fell and cracked my head and got a slight concussion. So they had to bring the ambulance in and check me out and the 911 call. But you know I get up in the morning and thought well you know you didn't break your leg, you can still do this. You just might have a little headache go with it. So back on the ice I went. And it took me a couple of days to sort of get my bearings back again and even when I went to Germany I think I was still suffering a little bit. It wasn't my very best skate. I pace forth but I still think I was suffering a little bit from the concussion. Took about six months for it to really feel flowing again. So now I'm fine.

AMT: But you went anyway. You're pretty tough.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Well, I am realistic, right. I got a bang in the head. It didn't break my leg. let's go.

AMT: Wendy, how do you remember that?

WENDY ORD: For me it was a very emotional moment because I fall very often and I'm quite good at falling, actually. I fall so much. But to see Henrietta on the ice. She wasn't moving for quite a long time and it was quite emotional for me. It's actually making me a little teary just remembering it. Henrietta didn't move for a very very long time.

AMT: You were really scared for her.

WENDY ORD: We were all very very scared for her. She's our team leader. She's our joy. We couldn't lose the Henrietta.

AMT: It shook you all up, didn't it?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Yes I think so. I think the reality of how quickly things happen. But as also there's always something good comes out of things. Now I have a skating helmet and it's a beautiful little helmet, it is very contoured to my hand. So it builds confidence and I see other people now seeing that they harm that and figure skating with it on. And I think it encourages other to wear it. So there is always something good comes out of things.

AMT: So you finally get To the Worlds. Wendy, you had some upsetting news in the days leading up to the competition. What was going on in your life?

WENDY ORD: Well I did in some ways take up figure skating for my dad. And he was super excited about us going to competition. I was kind of fulfilling one of his childhood dreams. His health had been waning throughout the year and he had a minor stroke a few nights before and ended up in the hospital. And we were all very concerned about him. So I had to go to Germany with that thought in mind.

AMT: And when you took to the ice what was going through your mind?

WENDY ORD: I got to do this from my dad.

AMT: How did do you do?

WENDY ORD: I placed third, and that was actually a highlight of my entire life. I really had only hope to place in the top half and I ended up on the podium for my dad.

AMT: That's exciting.

WENDY ORD: It sure was.

AMT: A number of you won medals in your categories, in your group.

WENDY ORD: We did amazingly well. Isabella placed second and Donna Bergmundson, bless her heart, because she loves medals, she won gold. We actually most of us competed in two categories and the six of us brought home nine medals.

AMT: That's fantastic. What has this experience taught you about yourself Henrietta?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: As I said it really is good for your ego but it's also taught me to pay attention to detail, because you have to be so precise about the way you move and the way you stand and things like that. It's also taught me how to be stronger on a team. You have to be able to know when to hold it and when put it out there. And also the sensitivity to all of the other skaters. And I think that's the whole give me a great appreciation for how difficult-- I work with children who have delays and autism, and I can really appreciate how difficult small things are for them, because they're so hard for me. And I think, oh, this is how they must feel when they have to do something over and over and over again.

AMT: Wendy what about you? How has skating changed you and how you see yourself?

WENDY ORD: Well I think skating with this group of women has taught me to get over probably what everybody goes through at this time and their lives, a massive fear of ageing. And they have really taught me that this time of life doesn't mean you have to go downhill. You can actually go uphill and you can challenge yourself with things that you have never done before, that there is no-- you don’t have to be afraid of aging you can actually look forward to it. It’s going to be fun.

AMT: Henrietta, what do you think? What's the message for the rest of us as we age?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Well I think that Marjorie Horan on the radio calls it engaging in aging. And I think the more you can engage in the fact that ageing and not see it as a number, but just see it as an opportunity. So now you have more time and do more things and it forces you to work on your body and also keeps things in perspective. That's the most important thing. I mean this is important for us to all do this but still we have to keep life in perspective and value every moment.

AMT: What's next? What do you do now?

HENRIETTA PENNEY: My ballet lessons being the next thing. You know how fast ballerinas get on the floor and get up? They do it very fast. I'm still on the floor and they're stripping off to the next room [laughter], and I'm trying to get up.

AMT: What about you Wendy? What's next?

w: Well the ladies are actually all getting ready to go to the winter World Masters Games in Austria in 2020. So they're all out making new routines and buying new dresses for that big event.

AMT: Are going to be rolling on that one too?

WENDY ORD: I'd love to. I sure there's going to be a comedy there.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Village Village, here we come.

AMT: Go looking for those dresses now. Thank you both of you.

WENDY ORD: Thank you.

HENRIETTA PENNEY: Thank you Anna Maria.

AMT: Wendy Ord is the co-director of a new documentary called To the Worlds. It airs this week on CBC Docs POV, Friday at 9 o'clock, 9:30 in Newfoundland and parts of Labrador on CBC Television. Henrietta Penney is one of the figure skaters featured in the film and they both join me from Kelowna, British Columbia. That's our program for today. Stay with Radio 1 for Q. Tom Power is revealing while we know now that the 2019 inductee into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame. Corey Hart will be on hand for a career spanning interview with Tom Power on Q today. Finally after our conversation with those inspiring figure skaters, we're gonna leave you with some of Henrietta Penney's favorite skating music. This is a song she's planning on skating to at the 2020 winter World Masters Games in Austria. It's K.D. Lang and Waltz Me Once Again Around the Dance Floor. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti. Thanks for listening to The Current.

[Song: Waltz Me Once Again Around the Dance Floor by K.D. Lang]

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CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

Wednesday January16, 2018 Full Transcript

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